said and done wt is to be thought and beleevd wt is to be hoped and feard wt concerns God and his creaturs wt angels and men wt earth and heaven wt our creation and redemption wt the beginning and end of things First where is the order and method to find out these things You will find that the story and doctrinall part goes hand in hand together wch is not the ordinary way of teaching If I peruse the story of Gospell by it self I shall scarcely find it answerable to my expectation whiles I find mention onely of one howr of Christs birth and not a word more for twelv years together and then but one single action of his appearing in the publick Schools and not a word again of his whole life till almost twenty years after and then onely some works he did in publick for the space of about three years so his death wch is far less than I should expect or desire to know And the doctrine our Lord deliverd is no more of it set down than what he spake incidentally in fields and streets and publick places the three years space of his publik appearance and not a word of any thing he taught his Schollers or Disciples in particular on set purpose without reference to publick speeches which was without all doubt the main doctrin primarily intended both by the Maister his disciples and most copiously explicated Moreover those publick speeches of or Lord we have set down in Gospell they are deliverd us but under certain generall heads and brief notes wthout any order or connexion at all that can appear to any the subtillest wit that is Our Lords Sermon on the mount is the largest piece of doctrin we hav of his deliverd at one time and most heavenly and divine it is like its authour but he that reads the sift sixt and seaven Chapters of S. Mathew where t is set down shall desire connexion And indeed the holy Evangolists collecting their Gospels as brief memorialls did it wthout all doubt the best way And t is sufficient and far better than if all had been set down in that order and fulness of discours our Lord deliverd it For the few separated notions of Christian morality set down in Gospell wer enough to give testimony to the traditionall doctrine the Apostles had methodically received from their master for his Church Finally those speeches of our Lord recorded in Gospell be only some brief sentences and parables questions and replies to interrogatories wch be far short to a whol body of divinity tho abundantly enough for a Church in whos bowels the Messias would imprint his law and intire will It appears then both by the mingling of the story and dogm together by the few parcells of the history it self by the want of that method and connexion in the dogmaticall part wch our dull capacities require for learning and the omission of great many things we should need to be imformd in far more amply than we can find it set down in Scriptur concerning the use of Sacraments government of the Church and a thousand difficulties rising about the exercises of charity and faiths I say it appears by these and such like things that the Scripture of the New Testament was never pend on any purpose to teach us our religion but rather to confirm and ratify by incidentall passages therein such religion and doctrin as should be deliverd by the Church the prime and sole mistresse of faith after God and in place of him in all clearnes of methodical beleef and practise To you saith our Lord to his Apostles Luc. 8.10 it is given to known the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven to others in parables that seeing they may see and not understand The Apostles and the Church derived from them were made acquainted wth the mysteries and secrets of Christian religion for their beleef and practise and the same Church clearly knows and understands them as the mysteries of her own profession and art wch she hath receivd and practisd from the beginning to this day But to others that be aliens and out of the Chuâ—ch it seems our Lord so orderd his speech that they should hear and yet not understand nor everfully perceiv his will till beleeving they were incorporated into his mysticall hody unto which alone all the mysteries of religion are delivered in perspicuity and clearnes This generall purpos and intention of penning the Gospell and other parts of the New Testament as short manuall notes for Christians within the Church or such as are to be congregated unto it from wch Churches hands they have both a larger explicit declaration of their faith and a full and ample practis thereof in her bosom must needs infer such an obscurity as shall obstruct all possibility out of the Church of God by this bare letter ever to arrive to a clear understanding of the waies of Christian Religion This is the first and great cause of that obscurity scripture carries with it unto such as come to seek their religion in a Book wch was never made to teach it nor written for such a propos The churches doctrin as it comes out of her lips that is the thing that converts nations and regenerats unto heavenly life and this written word is a good milk to nurs us up after we are regenerated wch made S. Peter to exhort Christians 1 Pet. as new born babes to desire that sincere milk of the word that they may grow by it 1. Pet. 2. But it is not the thing that givs us the first life Indeed the Scriptur does little or no good but as it is presented by the Church and received with her interpretation and practisd in her bosom wthout wch three things I wil be bold to say it is not the Word of God nor hath it any vertue at all The Ark of God so long as it was upheld by the Priests it comforted and sanctified them but touched or lookt into by others it destroyd them nor was it unto them an Ark of salvation but an offence and occasion of fall If we descend to particulars we shall espy reasons enough of obscurity such as will frustat all desire of any perspicuous discovery of faith to be made by any man wthout the churches help The very history doth afford disputs enough hardly to be answered by the learnedst of divines as they will easily grant that have examind them The Prophesies and mysteries of faith containd therein who is able to trace them And the morall or dogmaticall part tho it seem familiar yet hath it a profoundnesse beyond all human writting Indeed by this it is demonstrated to be the Word of God wch must needs be like himself unsearchable Out of the abundance ef the heart the mouth speaketh saith our Lord and where the heart is immense the word is also incomprehensible I doubt not but there be too many amongst our people in England who read the
either keep me still from you or split me wth you LA. Wt shall we do wth you Sr Harry sith you decline scripture wch as it is the purest so t is the easiest way for your conversion VIC Shall I tell you he wil even go out of his way as Balam and his ass did I le show you the story as t is written in 22 chapter of numbers t is a very pretty one Ther you wil see how the ass confuted his rider and said unto him Am not I thine ass so prettily Read here from the 22 vers to the 36. If you go not in the right way Sr Harry as we would have you be sure you shall be checkt by a very ass When any such thing happens you may take it for a certaine sign that you ar out of your way KN. Scriptur is a good instrument to drawn men from paganisme to Christianity but no fit means to divert us from Catholik Religion to heresy That heavenly seed wch makes sons of God can never make children of perdition except it self be mischievously corrupted And therfore I decline it not at all but admit allow and embrace it as containeing that irrefragable doctrine wch eminent persons in the church of God penned wch industrious and religious persons in the same Catholik church coppied transcribed wth their owne hands above a thousand years together before printing was invented to keep that sacred letter alive and lastly wch by the Catholik body of the said Church hath beene authenticated and canonised and therfore it must needs be pure and holy being madâ— conserud and ratified by holy Church But its facility and easinesse that I do not so easily conceive or agree unto especially if you separate it from the Church whose book it is The mind and meaning of any writing no man can understand so well as the Authour no man can interpret aright contrary to the Authour no man where it is obscure and uncouth may peremptorily interpret wthout the Authour MIN. You will soon grant it to be easy if you consider that t is called a light to the understanding Wt thing is there more apparent than light And therfore t is said in the Ephesians if our Gospell be hid t is hid to them that are lost VIC Sweet heart you are mistaken that sayeing is not in the Ephesians but Corinthians 2. Ep. and the 4. c. LA. T is no matter Mr person so we find out your riddle tho it be by plowing wth your heyfer according to the saying of Samson Iud. 14. VIC I told you even now Madam that the ass will rebuk his rider when he goes astray KN. A light if it be set behind us or under a bushell or to an eye ill affected inlightens not and a prejudiced mind is a veyld understanding where light cannot enter I must say more he that goes out of the Church puts out his own eyes and he that never enterd in never had any but gropes in darknes Light is come into the world saith our Lord but men love darknes more than light Jo. 1. namely because they shut their eyes against it and no marvell that unto such the Gospell should be hid Catholikes all of them have indeed the whole Gospell by heart and comprehendit sufficiently for the life and spirit of it yet still the bark and letter of it hath obscurity enough wch is opend and manifested as far as is needfull upon occasion by the lips of priests wch preserve knowledg No man understands the mind of man but the spirit that is in man nor the meaning of scriptures can any comprehend but the spirit of that Catholik body whose the scriptures be For these be imediatly the word and doctrin of the Church and therfore called the Word of God because that Catholik body from whence it issued is animated by the spirit of Jesus Christ her naturall head who is God blessed for ever and the particular penmen therof being members of the sayd church were peculiarly illustrated by that spirit unto such an effect So then the word of God is a light and enlightens good Catholiks it enlightens not others that remain blinded in infidelity and separated from that holy mysticall body of Christ and yet t is a light still t is hid to them that are lost People that live in a family colledg or corporation by the daily sight and practis of things to be don therin do fully comprehend all that is to be said or acted there But others who be out of those societys shall never by bare reading of books written of such emploiments so long as themselves stay out attain to any satisfactory light therof but remain pusled in a wood of dark words and either mistake or not apprehend the reality and truth of things So our people wthin the Church see distinctly and clearly the truths of God in whose practis they are daily conversant so that words and writtings are not necessary unto such as be in a continuall exercise of their trade but sectaries paymins al infidels who be aliens and strangers to this Society out of the family altho they should look upon their book of statutes scripturs or laws yet will they still be pusling about words and never clearly understand the secrets of the profession One artist or tradesman knows more by heart and practise than the whole world besides that is out of that body or not conversant in the society can ever attain unto by reading A man may demonstrat by Philosophicall reason that light it self enlightens not but by reflexion no more do the word and scripturs except they reflect upon us from the bosom of the Catholik body wch actuats them in their operation If you would seriously ponder these few words you should quickly perceive unto whom the scriptures be obscure and unto whome they be easy and how they be easy to Catholiks for the practise life and meaning of them tho the letter may still keep its obscurity as children of a family may clearly understand all the whol affaires and businesses of the house tho if books should be written therof they might not so easily understand the letter of those books Yet these have great advantage in the understanding of such books abov those who are not coversant in the affairs being aliens and strangers to the family For t is easier by the knowledg perfect comprehension of things to understand words that be written of them than by reading of words to perceiv things we are altogether unexperienced in But to speak abstractively of the letter of Scriptur wthout reference unto persons as if the case were that neither you nor I ever knew any thing of the Christian religion but what we get out of the Bible or new Testament put now into our hands Could either of us or all of us together see clearly in this letter the whole state of the Catholick Church or without obscurity discern wt is to be
security at all of adhering unto any sith I may still in prudence doubt of any even the last separation whether that be the unspotted spous of Christ or a new purification yet to be expected And who can assure me that any such thing shall happen in my life time to be made use of by me or that I shall ever see that glorious church not having spot or wrinkl or any such thing holy and wthhout blemish Eph. 5.27 unto wch I may incorporat my self For the last separation still exclaimes against ' the former as they did against the mother church and that wch is to come will do the like against this Besides these several new ways if they be well examined appear so to dash one against another that altho all of them strike expressy at the mother church yet they wound her through one anothers sides and if any should beleev them he shall not possibly find any thing to adher unto unles he blindly close wth the first he meets and condemn all others wth the sam folly he made chois of this Our later Writers here in England L. Faukland Chillingworth and others driv if I mistake not against Religion in generall and strike as much at any or all as at the Catholick The Socinians they have sprung a mine under the church so deep and dangerous that it makes the very battlements of heaven to shake at least in the eyes of man openly and wthout dissimulation oppugning the very divinity of the Son of God crucifying not so much the lord of glory as the very lordship and glory of that lord finally calling many things in question wch former heretiks left untoucht And now one may meet here in every town villag wth som or other blaspheming openly against the whol Gospell of Christ such as hear them laughing at the conceit without any sens at all or zeal of Gods glory and their own finall hopes This is the fruit of thes new ways fresh wits and daily inventions wherby the utter desolation is day by day consummated Nemo repente fuit turpissimus no man on the sodain was ever made stark naught and be degrees doth every heresy how slight soever it be in the beginning sink it self insensibly into atheism containing most of Catholick faith in the first and imediat separation till by degrees it all expire This is the perfection Religion gets by the addition of new wits and the progres of innovation The knowledg and experience of these mischiefs makes the Catholik church wch is the wisest congregation hath ever been or possibly ever can bee upon earth to curb and stifl every wtsoever innovation as far as lies in her power at its first uprising how small soever it be knowing full well that from such a littl egg is by littl and littl formd a dangerous adder and this in time wingd into a flying serpent MINISTER Can you deny Sr that arts and sciences are all perfected by time so is Religion likwise KNIGT By your favour you ar much mistaken your self in your similitud or would at least beguil me If religion wer a human invention the consequence were good For all inventions of man issuing from an imperfect principl by the application of fresh hands and understandings superadded to the former as new degrees of perfection in the principle do receiv increas and the arts ar then com to the height when they have past through so many hands and heads as be able to imprint so much perfection as the subject or matter is capable to receiv So that all those heads and hands put together as well that perfected as that first invented the science do but make up one complet perfect principle of the art or invention resulting thence wch receives perfection proportionabl to the gradual acces of its original from whence it flows and still as natur and industry perfects that so does the art increase Thus much I can grant And if Religion were an human invention the very same affection would be found in it also T is here to be noted that we do not treat of Theology or scholasticall learning wch is a science superadded to the primary principles of Religion for this I shal grant to be humane as Physick or the civill law is if it be taken precisely according to its conclusions and inferences without respect had to the principles whence it flowes and it may alter in its manner and method as they do But I speak purely of those primary principles whereupon this Theology is founded for these only are faith and the unalterable doctrine of the Christian church This Religion and Faith deliverd unto us by God if the Gospell and Scripturs be true differs as to our present purpose in two points from all other humane sciences First that it issued at first from a principle absolutly complet secondly that ther is not upon earth any principl already existing or possible to exist that can join wth that principl to add to the perfection of the work God who reveald and taught this faith is an infinit intellect and an understanding infinitly actuated of such excessive perfection that it may easlier be admird and worshipt than exprest And therfor the faith that issued from him must have its whol perfection at the first impression and that infinit degrees more absolut than arts and sciences receive at the last that coms forth absolutly pure and perfect thes receiv their perfection such as it is in their progres The further Religion proceeds from its first institution or revelation the more t is sullied by the comerce of man whos practis by deviating from its dictats fouls it as it were by contagion of the vessell but if he shall once dare to enterpose the results of his own judgment wth those revealed articles to deny any or add to any mingling his own urin with that supernaturall current then does the water of life run troubled muddy and corrupted and ceases to be divine nor is ther any way to rectify it but by having recourse to its first pure sours and according to that samplar to clarify it again But human inventions arising at the first unpolisht and rough if their perfection be to be measurd are not called back to their first originall but examind rather by the nearnes to the last and final experiment This is the first difference as concerning our purpos in hand betwixt divine faith and human sciences Religion and arts gods worship and mans works The other is that ther is not upon earth any other principl which may add any thing to Religions perfection renew or alter it in any kind Arts sciences garbs languages and fashions of men thes do expect their perfection from mans industry whence they had their first being and humane industry and wit presumes rightfully to make severall additions alterations and changes in them according to the variety that is in mens fansies These alterations be either perfections or at least so esteemd
of purgatory as well as hell or heaven both contrition and pennance both God and his blessed retinu of Saints and Angels both preaching and Sacrificing shrins altars unctions seaven Sacraments vows Pilgrimages and all whatsoever things the Catholik now beleeves or professes even to the least drop of holy water And if that faith that hath the vertu and power to trample down idolatry to chase away paganisme and triumph over all the power of darknesse be not divine if this good tidings of truth benot the vertue of God and power of God wch is it From this power of converting nations the Prophets of old magnified the word and Gospell of the Messias and S. Paul upon that account cals it the vertu and power of God and yet this efficacy is onely proper and peculiar to the Catholik Religion and non els I shall onely at this time give some generall conjectures in a familiar discours wherby we may be moved to beleeve wt is indeed most cerainly true that popery is no addition of mans at least suspect that the report our reformers give of it sounds like a slander leaving solider and more particular demonstrations for som other time LA. It will not displeas us to hear you speak so that after all is done you will follow our counsell KN. I shall not be obstinat But give me leave dear Lady fully to vent my thoughts For I conceive that a man is not capabl of better counsell till he hath utterly discovered all whatever things detaind him afortime in his sormer purpos wthout any reservation at all For even small reliques of former courses lurking in the mind undiscoverd will still be egging him on to thos waies again after he hath embraced better counsell repine against the advice he hath taken as ruinous and prejudiciall although it were in it self very behoofesull and good So that the mind runs a hasard of lasting disquiet wch enters upon a new cours before the old be totally dislikt VIC I out wth is Sr Harry our wth it fully for so it is written Counsell in the heart of a man is like deep water but a man of understanding will draw it out Prov. 20. MIN. Well Sr let not my argument be forgot wher by I prooud that popery was a human art and therfore in mans power to reform nay t is comendable to cashere falsities KN. You said indeed so but prooud it not not was it ever prooud yet by any tho it be in all mens mouths nor ever will be so long as the world lasts The misery is Sr that men of your opinion that is to say not catholik are all very little verst in our catholik authors especially such as be scholasticall subtile and voluminous love and care I mean wife and children haply not permitting such brain-consuming studies so that when we come to discours wch you t is as equally hard to perswad you as the vulgar of the parish being all of you equally ignorant of the Churches waies and doctrin And yet popery a thing indeed unknown to you must be jeerd at spoke against preacht against and haply writ against too by som pert Gentlman that has never so much as heard a whol cours of philosophy in his life for a whol cours either of philosophy or divinity is a thing now a daies altogether unknown in both our universities and that wth so many impertinencies lies and slanders such vanity fraud and cosenage such insulting babl wresting of Scriptur texts and falsifying of authors that my heart has even startld within me to behold this shamles dealing You say that all your reformations are but the taking away from the purity of Gospell the vain superstructurs of human superstitions commonly cald popery This you say becaus other reformers said so before you taking it one from another since Luthers time and your child will say it from you and so will every bastard in the parish Nor does it avail us any thing by all manner of proofs to assert the divinity and truth of our doctrin Altho you will not read or cannot haply understand those sublim orthodox divins that would fully inform your judgement in this point and convince you of an errour no less notorious than dangerous Yet me thinks there be many things obvious and familiar might render you wary and suspitious of danger in this your asserion wch concerns no les than your eternal salvation As first that you never examend it you know you did not I appeal to your own conscience The Church hath ever beene in possession of this her doctrin and cannot possibly be dispossest but by some evident demonstration wch I am sure the power of man and angel can never effect if you insist on any other autority as sacred scripturs or councells they are as sure hers as any of your proper goods is your own Nor is ther I am confident any one text I say not any one single text of Scriptur if it be taken together wth the whole body scope and intention of the book whence t is drawn that shall urg or proov any thing for any Reformation against the Church this I am able to maintain against the wholl world And yet you ar so far from considering or examining any of thes things that you conclude upon bare hearsay or report wthout either autority or demonstrative reason against the doctrin of the Church wherof she hath been time out of mind in possession and all this slighnes is used in a matter of the highest concernment in the world as if the talk wer onely de lana Caprina Me thinks it should fright you to think that if your assertion should be fals as for aught you know it is then ar you certainly guilty of the accursed sacriledg of diminishing from the word and will of God Again you know and do acknowledg that you have substracted not only some part but the most and greatest parts of that religion was found planted in the land in Harry the eights daies Pray tell me that whol mass or body of practicall doctrin that is now cut off in this year 1655 was it known in King Charls James or Queen Elisabeths days to have been all of it popish additions To this I am sure peopl of severall reformations will give severall answers Independency the last and purest reformation will affirm it but Protestancie the first and oldest apostasy will deny it nor will the Protestant indure that his children should judg him as he condemnd his mother Church or reform his fallibility as he rebeld against the infallibility of his parent And yet the Independent proceeds consequently to those very principles wch the protestant laid for his own revolt namely the fallibility of men the solesufficiency of scripturs and the Spirit of God therin assisting his elect to the discovery of truth Nor can the Independent be blamed for any thing but for striking thes principls further hom than the amphibian protestant did This
will or no printing and preaching presse and pulpet Mr Iohn an oaks Mr Prinne cannot utter any thing but truth Innovations papists do nothing else but make innovations they cannot eat or drink or sleep but the must do it and mischief is their very life LA. God mend all SECOND DIALOGUE LA. I have Sr Harry brought you here again your souls phesitian to understand the symptoms of your diseas and apply an agreeable remedy therunto KN. I shall Madam as well as I may both declar my sicknes and respectfully receiv his remedy LA. Com doctour you look blith upon t to day I take it for a good sign VIC And I am glad for sooth to see my husband cherfull for sadnes as it is written dries up the bones Pro. 17. MI. I bring you good news Sr Harry The work of reformation we perswade you unto is as easily effected as t is to cast of a heavy cloack in a burning midsommers day All popish practises as I in order shall name them to you do but you in the same method reject them and you shall in one half hour becom a Protestant in three quarters a Presbyterian in a whol howre an Independent and so be reformed at your leysur and wth eas KN. You say not all this while what shall guid me in this action MIN. The word of God that guides you Sr to the will of God KN. The means and end of his motion being coincident a man may well hope for an undisturbd tranquillity in the period MIN. Wt can disturb you Sr being built upon the rock of the bible wth more or les hold thereon according to the natur of the reformation KN. Wch reformation has the best hold MIN. Let them look to that I le not meddle wth those disputes KN. I have both read and heard of the rock of the Church but the rock of the bible you are the first man I know ever used the phrase MIN. The Church and her doctrin be all one the Churches doctrin and scriptur is the same and so the rock of the church and rock of the bible cannot be two severall things VIC Well said sweet heart This is now a little above me But so it is written The husband is above his wife and she shall be under and subject to him Gen. 3. MIN. The summe of all is Betake your self to the pure scripture And t is enough KN. Ther is much talk of Scriptur and all the sectaries have ever risen tho never so many or never so opposit one to another have still pretended it nay the devill urged his temptation wth a scriptum est Matt. 4. so that I feare the proposall of this either means or rest will prove but wast of time Give me leav to tell you that the messenger of the Gospell of peace who by a mission from pope Eleutherius converted the Brittons from paynisme to Christian faith in the second age of the church and the other from pope Gregorius who reduced the Saxes or English in the fift gave them all their religion as well explicitly in all the articles of their Christian faith as implicitly in the bible they deliverd into their hands wherin those articles by incidentall occasion lay casually coucht Now to take away all those explicite articles drest and prepared allready to our hands and give us the bible is the same thing as to take from men all the gold and silver already coined wth so much care and industry of princes and show them a mine whence such things may be digd wthout affording eyther work men skilfull in the art or instruments for the purpos Imagin in such a case wt disorder and confusion would happen when thousands of people are gatherd together about a mountain none verst in digging or fitted wth instruments for it none accustomed to the hollowes of deep earth none skild in finding out the vein none expert in discerning the oare or to melt it into bullion or stamp it into coin And yet all of them equally conceyted as undertaking ignorance uses to be and indifferently judging and condemning the works of each other It cannot otherwise happen in such a case but that some should tumble into precipices some be somtherd in the earth below some after much toil bring forth a handfull of clodded earth lead or iron oare and perhaps a slat or peble in the stead of mettall and if haply any one meet wth the right he will either not heed it as not appearing to be such or loose it in the allay melting or stamp In fine where so much curiosity and art is required in the manifold degrees of procedur yet none had by any and profest by all to the disparagement of one another wt can result from such an attempt but disorder nois confusion and hazard emulation quarrell amongst themselves Nov can they ever effect any thing to the generall agreement liking of all or repair the coin that is destroyd This is in all points our very condition when the Christian articles of faith wrougt out and stampt for us and deliverd us by our primitiv pastours according as they had received them from Jesus Christ the prime Inventour and Work-man of our faith are principitously annuld and the Bible put in mens hands to dig out from thence by their own skill and industry the results of their religion Nay the case here is so much the more desperat in that the common people wth the tradition of the Bible receiv this caution from the reformers that they take heed of such and such abrogated articles of popery wch as they do ever and anon appear in the Scripturs they hav to peruse so are they indeed the very pith and marrow of that sacred Book and the golden metall they are onely to seek for So that being left unto their own shallow judgments if it were then improbable they should ever light upon the whol sincere truth of good now being adviced and prejudiced against it altho they should happly light upon it t is impossible wth that prejudice they should ever embrace and adhere unto it That the articles of Catholik religion abrogated by reformers were all stampt out for us by our primitiv Pastours and have gon currant in the whol Christian world from the beginning to this day hath been proved a hundred times over and over by learned Catholik divines both for the generall in each particular And that it is an impious tiranny to take them all away and put people to seek new out of the Bible I think it will easily appear to an understanding man if he do but consider the way-wardnes of mans will prone to evill and averst to good such especially as is annext to bitternes and pains the fallacy of his fansy and weaknes of his understanding wch we cannot but perceiv to fail even in things that be in our very senses and that both by deficiency and errour both by want of apprehension and
Scriptures as our boyes and girles do at schoole judging the sense comprehended as soone as the sillables be speld I speak not to such Greater divines to whome I speak must and will acknowledg that the Scriptures be often argumentative passing from one point to another wthout giving any doctrinall notice therof This will make the reader hable to continuall mistakes whiles he conceivs the writer to go still along upon the same subject whereas he is past over to a new or a contrary one As also in the Psalmes canticles Prophecies t is very familiar wth those holy men under one the same number person to act themselvs in one verse God or his church in the other imediately succeeding in one half line to decipher things present in the other conjunctivly connext things onely to come and not appliable to wt was then in hand tho the speech be united The good Eunuch in the Acts of the Apostles was it seems adviced hereof when reading the Prophesy of Isaias he asked Philip of whome doth the Prophet speak this verse he was led as a sheep to the slaughter of himself or of some other man Act. 8.34 Again in the whole course of scriptur a man may meet wth propositions here and there desperst wch being taken apart from the other discours and according to their own bare sound are quite opposite to other formal assertions in the same book nay to the very drift and intention of the Authour as will soon appear unto him that shall make an analysis of the whole book such be the semisentences depraved texts and ill applied autorities used by sectaries For example in that sublime and learned Epistle of S. Paul written to the Romans our people of England do cull out many places for the solesufficiencie of faith against the necessity merit of good works wch is as far from the dift and intention of the Apostle as hell is from heaven and unbeseeming such a Catholick doctour as S. Paul was to write to such a Catholik place as Rome The busines and occasion of the letter was an emulation risen in Rome betweene the converted Jewes and the converted Gentiles those who had been made Christians from Iewes disabling the Gentiles as being ever aliens from God wheras the Iewes converted were first Gods servants under Moses then under Christ and so pleasing God in the whole course of their linage by their good conversation according to the law they used the Gentils on the other side diminisht the Iewes for that themselves by the very light of reason doing wt they could was a law to themselvs and so far pleasd God that he therfore brought them equally wth the Iewes unto the light of Gospell wch the Iewes indeed deservd not sith they had murderd the Messias and Lord of glory This childish emulation arising haply upon some slight word at their meetings proceeded so far that it brake forth into open rancour one against another insomuch that their Priests and Pastours who were amongst them could not well allay it Wherfore S. Paul notice therof being given to him wrote that letter of his to them wherin he layes about him now at the Iewes then at the Gentils confuting their pride and folly and giving them both to understand that neither of them had aught to boast of sith God of his free mercy had equally cald them both to the saving faith of Gospell and made them Christians and therfore that they should all live together in humility peace and brotherly charity This is the scope and subject of that sacred and most Catholik Epistle so wretchedly abused by our pittifull Sectaries who understanding nothing of the Apostles purpose deprave him as they do other scripturs to their own ruin And t is an odde kind of riddle that Catholik divines who do onely understand the scriptures should affirm them to be hard and difficil to understand heretiks who understand them not at all should maintaine them to be easy Again we see that scriptur ever anon takes up figures allegories and parables wherin are inclosed truths of a differing strain to wt the letter relates This will caus an obscurity almost invincible For who can look through a veyl none surely but the church and church men singularly assisted and inspired so S. Paul lookt through the story of Sara and Agar and perceivd the two churches decipherd therin Gal. 4. And this custom is it seems so frequent in Scriptur that the same Apostle gives a caution against too much adhereing to the bark and letter of sacred scriptur averring peremptorily that the letter kills but the spirit or meaning couched under the letter that is life 2. Cor. 3. For that the bare letter of the history too much insisted upon will often lead if not to a contrary errour vet besides the intended truth Besides the same phrase or letter is used in scriptur somtimes one way somtimes another as sin not to stand upon further exemplification is taken commonly for an offens and yet somtimes again for an expiation therof 2. Cor. 5.21 wth is almost contrary Somthings in scriptur are spoken of God according to his essence wch wthout good heed may prejudice the right beleef of a trinity some things of Christ according to his humanity wch may dâ—sh the conceit of the diety in him som things of the church triumphant wch may falsly be applied to the militant somthings of the Messias his second coming wch may be a stumbling block to the truth of his first And contrary All these things have caused errours mistakes and heresies in the world And may still do the like if private judgment have free and uncontroulable dominion over the letter and text of scripture to interpret it at pleasur Lastly sacred scriptur being a masse or body of writing both made up by severall Authours and a miscellan of severall kinds of words histories and lawes under a figure histories and lawes wth out figure or dogmaticall Prophesies of severall stiles or phrases and all of them obscure and parabolicall prudentiall Proverbs close coucht together and so antimetrically sited that rare wits can search into their depth Psalms and canticles so highly elevated above ordinary conceit that for aught I see they may suffice to amuse the understandings of all ages parables not yet fully explicated and dogmaticall Epistles of the good Apostles wch if they be taken so far as may concern pure Christianity wthout their economicall morall and politicall precepts wch be easy and well enough known wthout them are enough to exercise the understandings of mankind Scriptures I say made up of all these severall ingredients argue first that they were never pend to teach us our faith but for a meer help of meditations for exhortation incitement of devotion and piety in people already beleeving Secondly that it would be a lost labour to go cull our beleef out of theÌ„ where no such purpose is intended no method used
for it and all kind of obscurity contrary to such an end But to conclude If Scriptur be indeed so clear and easy for each capacity to read out of them to cull his faith and by them to frame his religion as sectaries pretend and this be indeed the judgment of all reformers wherfore do they themselves so multiply their catechists interpretours and expositours theron to wt end is all their preaching and weekly teaching this if it be indeed to any end must needs be either to expound faith or promote good works if the faith be clear enough the expounding is in vain as for good works they be long ago exploded bannisht out of the land and the empty preaching for aught I know may go foot it after them for words are in vain that tend to no end In fine whence comes all these diversities of opinions amōgst us here in England about matters of faith and religion and so opposit one to another and yet all grounded upon Scriptur Is that way so uniform and easy that leads men so diversly Nor am I satisfied at all in hearing som answer as they do that this coms not of Scriptur but the disorder and mistakes of men so lōg as I see it may wthout the Churches help be so shreudly mistaken I have reason to suspect mistakes in my self too if I once lean upon mine own spirit and industry as others do being my self no better than my neighbours And therfore I am loth nay I shall never be perswaded to leav the secure footing I now hav in all tranquillity peace uniformity wth the Catholik body of Gods Church by the result of truth delivered us by antiquity consonant to Gods word both written and unwritten and run my self with the confusd rout of disagreeing sectaries upon the rock of the Bible so apt as it appears by the event to be mis-understood and and wrested awry that I am clear of the opinion that no man out of the Church of God nor nobody of meē besides the Church of God understands it right Nor shall I be so mad now in my old age to go to dig my self religion having so fair a one already stamped to my hands wch all the art of men and angels put together can never mend Put him in Bedlam that undertakes both labour and hazard for naught LA. Do you think Sr Harry ever to perswade me that reading the Gospell I do not sufficiently understand the story of Christ his birth and life death and passion resurrection and ascension I fear not to affirm that I understand it perfectly and by your favour as fully as is necessary I do also conceiv well enough nor is it hard so to do wt his doctrin and miracles conduced to mankind I am moved also wth the divine discours of Christ and his Apostles Every Sabboth-day I go to Church and hear the word of God preacht I cannot see wt is more to be done he that reads and hears and beleevs the word of life cannot miscarry VIC And I for my part understand all that ever I either read or hear Alas when I was a young girle I was even then so towardly that I could read the Scripture as I ran up and down the house according as it is written write the vision and make it plane upon Tables that he may run that readeth Hab. 2. My husband and I every Sabboth day go hand in hand to Church together like the beasts that went into the ark by two and by two the Male and his Female Gen. 7.2 Surely this is sufficient for the salvation of all flesh KN. Madam you have now toucht upon the main busines wherein all sectaries be most pittifully deluded If they do but go to Church and hear a Sermon each one according to his fansy their duty is done and all his safe I will not stand now to examine whether the preaching be orthodox or no. Be it what it will It will not serv the turn I have already to my ability declared that the reading of Scriptur is no sufficient means of finding out our faith tho so much as it is it doth all of it confirm and verify the Churches doctrin I shall now go forward and evince two truths more First that reading or preaching of Gods word or the hearing therof tho it be indeed Gods word and pure and orthodox is not the essentiall or cardinal work of Christian religion Secondly that a man may hear and read it all his life time and yet be lost at the end both for want of grace and truth Our Lord wrote nothing himself as all men know yet notwthstanding he would never have failed either to have done it himself or commanded others to have done it if reading or hearing had been the great work of his religion to be imposed upon mankind For reading you know and expounding of Scriptur presupposes writing and his great work had been no other than to see things written if our great work had been no other than to read or hear them The four Evangelists afterwards put together some few heads of our B. saviours life and doctrin haply to carry about wth them in their bosom and entertain their converts wthall But we do not read that our Lord gave them any command to do so And this is an argument in your principles that he gave them none at all And as he gave them no order to write so neither did the promise them any assistance in their writing for all the concurrence we find promised either them or their successours was onely for the pectorall custody of their traditions orall doctrine and Church government And therfor since you deny the constancy of Christs assistance in the continuall government of his Church internall beleef and externall doctrin unto wch that assistance was promist affirming that the Church of Christ as it is not in it self infallible so hath it gone astray both in practis and doctrin me thinks you might wth as much ease and indeed more plausibility deny the same concurrence to any of the Churches writings whereunto it was never promist at all nor the Scriptur or writing it self so much as commanded by him wthout whose order nothing of force or autority could be done Nor it is to be thought but that Peter James Andrew and others of the Apostles had been both as able and as willing to write Evangells as the other four wherof two of them were but disciples of a far inferiour rank to the Apostles and indeed but companions and attendants upon them as may be seen in the Acts. Nay if writing had been such a capitall work S. Peter would never have neglected to have writ a Gospell himself especially when S. Mark his pupil and companion wrote one But this is an argument they had some greater work in hand and more nearly enjoind than that was Nor can we find by any monument that any of the other ten Apostles who were sent severall waies
for the worlds conversion carried any written Gospell at all wth them wch might be made by themselves much less is it to be thought that they staied to write out theirs having their own breasts so well fraught wth all that and far more than they found ther written especially considering that two of the Evangelists were but their pupills and disciples Nay before those Gospels were written out and completed especially that of S. John the Church of God was spread up and down the world and flourisht in all the duties of Christianity By wch it may appear that even the written Gospell is neither it self necessary to the being of the Church nor the reading or expounding of a text the essentiall work of Christianity As for the Epistles wch be the other part of the new Testament written by S. Paul and others These t is well enough known were pend a long while after the Church of God was perfectly formd and grown up in most parts of the known world in particular after those Churches of Rome Corinth Ephesus Galatia Thessalonica and the rest unto whom they are addrest were perfected in all the essentialls of Christian faith and they were occasiond merely accidentally upon the creeping in of some disorders and errours in those places contrary to the tradition of faith they had received as may soon appear to him that reads and understands the tenour of those spirituall Epistles So then the Church is antecedent to her Scriptur and altogether independant theron either for her being or profession helps of memory as all these writings be do presuppose both the memory and the things to be remembred before those helps were brought to light And so the reading of these Scriptures or hearing them expounded can no wise be the essentiall work of Christian religion or the totall exercise therof but somthing that is altogether independent of them more ancient than they be and that is more intrinsecally a worship homage adoration and service of the most high God than hearing or looking upon words and syllables can be I make no doubt but the whol Scriptur or writing of the new Testament both Epistles and Gospells was merely casuall and accidentall For I find it long ago foretold by the Prophets that the law and government of the Messias should in this differ from the Law of Moses that Moses Law was all committed to paper but the doctrin of Iesus should be writ in the heart and entrailes of his Church You may see one place in the Prophet Ieremy c. 31.33 wch the Apostle in his Epistle to the Hebrewes applies unto Christ our Lords dayes Heb. 10.16 and S. Paul doth not obscurely allude unto it in one of his letters he wrote to Corinth c. 3.3 Indeed to imprint in the churches breast a law from wch she should never deviat is in my judgment a greater argument of divinity than any written Gospell could afford The things wch Solon Numa Lycurgus Draco and other such like men contrived and dictated for the good of their common wealths did much commend their gravity vigilance and wisedome and elevated them above other men not above manhood Moses himself the most profound judicious Lawmaker the world ever had by the excellency of his written Laws hath merited the title of a divine and sacred legislatour but he is known to be a man by his hand-writing and the paper he wrote on He is a God that writes on the velin of the heart characters indelible unto eternity The Law of Christ onely is written not wth ink but wth the spirit of the living God not in tables of stone but in fleshly tables of the heart I do also verily think that the religion wch the Son of God deliverd to his church was neither commanded by him to be written nor yet ever intended either by the Euangelists or other of those primitiv writers to be totally set down under the notion of a rule of faith altho so much as ther is of it drawn principally for the use of devotion and charity be a rule of faith also What the occasion might be that moved the four Euangelists to write their compendious Gospells by the little learning I have I could never yet assuredly gather altho I remember I have read somthing thereof in a learned latin book made by a friend of mine called Systema fidei put forth some few years ago wherein be very many things of excellent learning worthy of the Authour but I have not now the book at hand Wt occasion moved S. Paul to write his Epistles unto Rome Corinth and other places is manifest enough and I shall afterward declare it when I shall come to discover the religion of the Apostles and Euangelists and make it appear that they were all papists and of the very self same religion Catholiks be of at this day All this put together that Christ himself neither wrote any thing nor comanded any thing to be written yea gave notice that he would use his speciall prerogative of legislatourship and write his law in hearts promising to animate the body of his Church wth his own spirit wch should lead them into all truth and that the church was disperst over the earth before any Christian writting was made wch was afterwards drawn to confirm and strengthen the faith and devotion it found already planted All this being true it follows apparently that hearing or reading or preaching upon a text is not the great capitall work of Christian Religion Indeed t is childishnes to think that God unto whom all prostration adoration all homage service and worship both of the outward inward man is more than due should be sufficiently served wth a little labour of the lips or ears when a man thinks good so to do Preaching is indeed necessarily antecedent to Christian faith yet it onely disposes unto furrher actions as may easily appear both by autority of Scriptures wch exclaime bitterly against such as hear and go no further and also by the very natur of hearing and all kind of exhortation wch ever tends to somthing besides it self For who ever heard onely to hear and no further who but our mad reformers ever preacht onely to be heard And how can speaking on one side and hearing on the other complete the whol duty of man to his God as if one were nothing but tongue and ear or had receivd nothing from him but those two organs Tell me Madam ingenuously Do not you think you have sufficiently done your duty to God if you go but forth once a Sunday to hear a Sermon and if you read a chapter or two in a week day this is nothing else in effect altho by your favour you do not think you self bound under sin to either but if you like the weather or the parson pleases or your clothes be neat and handsom then you will go forth to church if not you will stay at home if you find your self
they do at least and if they chance for formalitys sake to fall upon any practicall point to speak therof wth no purpos hope or intention of their practise For t is agreed on both sides both preacher people that such practis is popery and nothing requisit to salvation but onely to beleeve Hear a parable Two artificers had each of them an apprentis The first having delivered to his servant exactly all the rules of his art put him presently to work and practis by them assuring him that practis will better his knowledg wch the servant in all singlnesse of heart applying himself to labour according to the dictats of his rule advanced accordingly and so became eminent in the eyes of men and excceedingly beneficiall to the common wealth The other tradesman wth drew from the sight of his prentise all the particular rules and whole method of his art onely deliverd unto him in grosse som experiments and feats thereof by wch notwthstanding he could not perceiv at all either where to begin or how to go on nay he gave his servant one generall caution not to put his hands to any thing his duty being onely once a week to com and sit down before him and hear him discours of the usefulnes and benefit of his trade Onely beleeving in him his work is ended The prentise under such a teacher grew to be a great proficient in works and sentences but never put his hand to any thing either for his own credit or the benefit and service of mankind Nay he mockt at the other apprentis and cald him simple drudg The first of these artificers is the Catholik church the other is the Reformation Do you apply the rest The Catholik Religion is a noble a rational religion well beseeming a complete man to profess well beseeming the Son of God to plant The reformation a vain empty businesse befitting none to receive it but a company of cripples that have neither hands nor feet to use nor none to invent it but dawes and magpies It begins in teaching and ends in preaching Wo to you Pharisees saith our Lord for ye tith mint and rue and all manner of herbs and passe over judgment and justice and the love of God those ye ought to have done and not leave the other undone Luc. 11. Preaching if it be right and pious may be used nay when instructions advise and comfort is necessarily to be applied it ought to be done but the practise wherunton it tends this is not to be left undon The tithing of mint rue and cumin does but figur out under a tipe a consecrating unto God part of the good things we do enjoy from him by fasting almsdeeds and prayer that is to be done these not to be left undone Preaching puts in mind of the works of faith hope and charity that wher is need is to bee used these not to be neglected At one and the same time to preach good things in the pulpet and to cry down the same things by the rules of Reformation is to open a mans mouth and stop his wind pipe All your people go to your Churches wth such a prejudice against the customs of Catholik Church whence they are cut off by the reformation that altho the minister should chance wth singular zeal and eloquence to declaim against sin and cry up the exercises of Christianity yet the auditory is promoted nothing at all therby being aforehand prejudiced by the rules of reformation incorporated and naturalised in their spirit For who can take such words to heart or ever heed them effectually that shall firmly beleev that all we do or can do is sin and wt sin soever we commit we shall sure enough be saved if we do but beleev in Christ. People imbued wth these principles shall never by any Rhetorick either of man or angel be either affrighted from evill wordly pleasures and sin or perswaded to the laborious works of mortification and pennance The sowr grapes of Reformation have so set peoples teeth on edg that they cannot chew good mear T is in vain t is utterly in vain to bid dead men walk or exhort those to the works of life who by the poyson of reformation are made dead and sensles Preaching is to Catholiks a profitable and religious exercise to hereticks if it be orthodox t is a vain work if pseudodox t is a wicked work but to no people nor in no kind is it or can it be the onely work or sole Christian duty LA. Wt be those works Sr Harry you require over and above preaching KN. Even such as the Word of God it self requires The works of faith hope and charity and use of Sacraments prescribed in Gospell a serious and effectuall indeavour against sin according as sacred scriptur prescribes whose precepts must be heeded as obligatory and counsells respected as meritorious offerings We must both beleev in Christ as mediatour and beleev him too as our legislatour Both love him and observ his will and when we do fail reconcile our selves unto him by the means-himself hath ordayned captivating both our will and understanding to his pleasure who is our redeemer and maister and omnipotent Lord. To speak more particularly the works wch Catholiks by their faith are directed and exhorted unto be of two sorts personall and conventuall The personal works be first a constant obedience to the Church in all her dictamens of faith upon this great hinge hangs indeed all true and solid Christianity then an effectuall exercise of homage and piety to God of justice and charity towards our neighbour of sobriety and continence in our selves These things must be done he that does them best shall fare best for it The conventuall a reverent use of Sacraments and a presence at divine psalmody and Sermons according to our occasion and need But the great capitall conventuall work and worship is the venerable and blessed Sacrifice of the Altar every holiday solemnly exhibited every Christian stands obliged to be then present at it tho his devotion may find it each day of the week in our Catholik churches and many thousands of good people serv God every day in this holy rite But this is a free offering of their own not wthout great benefit and comfort to themselvs unto wch Holy church will not oblige This is that great work wch constitutes and essentiates Christian Religion By this it was perfected in its fundamentall worship and duty towards God long before our people had any Scripturs to read and by wch especially seconded wth its other Catholik appurtenancies it would still remain intire altho there were no Scriptures at all either to read or hear For Scriptur as it is expounded by Holy church or rather the traditional doctrin of the church whereof Scripture is a short and compendious coppy is to us Christians a light not to sit idle by but to work by This is the work wch the Disciples and
places are found ther is either an entire Altar stone or some remnants or signes of it This sacred Synaxy was the only thing that brought Christians together in times of hottest persecution at wch most of our Christian Martirs were taken And yet notwthstanding others could not forbear for that they could not have that comfort any other way nor yet were they able to live wthout it As appears in the Acts and processe of our ancient Martirs particularly the proconsulary Acts of S. Saturnin Wher we read that when the pagan emperours had given a comand that no Christian should dare to be present any more at their Mass wch the Christians at that time called their Dominicum the martirs replied sine Dominico esse non possumus we cannot live wthout Mass And therfore S. Saturnin being askt by Analin the proconsul whether he had been at Mass he answered Christianus sum as if he had said being as I am a Christian I cannot do otherwise t is Christianity t is my very life and being If all the Religion of those ancient Christians had been onely a little bearing or reading and their onely work to beleev in Christ they had never needed to expose their lives for that for Reformers do not think themselvs bound under sin to hear any body sith they beleev already wch is all that is necessary to salvation We cannot live wthout absolution and Mass they may live wthout a pratling preacher wch most of them do but censur and none of them be advanced by him either in their faith or good works onely their ear is somtime tickled a little wth a witty actour in the pulpet as there be indeed som of them so ingenious that t is as much pleasur to hear them speak as Ben. Iohnsons Catilin or Sejanus By all this discours I would infer that hearing or preaching the word is not the sole act of Christian Religion nor yet the main and principal act therof sith of its own natur it is but a preparativ and disposition to some further work and the disposition is ever les noble than the form it disposes unto And if it dispos unto no other thing as Reformers preaching does not then is in no Religion at all but a meer mockery This was my first thesis My other was that a man may all his life time either read or hear the word and yet at length be undon both for his sin and infidelity if in any one thing he misbeleev or fail LA. If we let you alone Sr Harry you wil not com to a period wthin your time the glas is run KN. I will dispatch in a word VIC Do so Sr Harry for it is written In a multitud of Words ther wants not sin but be that refrains his lips is wise Prov. IC KN. That any one errour in faith suffices for destruction altho a man otherwise beleev the story of Gospel is apparent in reason For all the Articles of faith being received upon one and the same motiv wch is the verity of the revealer the formal deniall of any one must needs be a vertuall deniall of all and consequently the destruction of faith wthout wch no man can be saved Wherfor S. Paul is bold to condemn Hymeneus Philetus known Christians for one onely errour Shun saith he prophane and vain bablings for they wil increas unto more ungodlines And their word wil eat as doth a canker of whom is Hymeneus and Philetus who have erred from the truth saying that the resurrection is past already overthrow the faith of some 2. Tim. 2.16 By this example we see that one errour overthrowes faith And yet t is worth noting too that the errour those two are condemned for is not any thing formally opposit to Scriptur for Christ told his disciples of a resurrection to come but did not say that in Hymeneus his time it was not past but their mistake and misdemeanour was merely against the judgment of the church whose Priests expounding Scriptur told them that the resurrection was not then past and yet they would not be quiet notwthstanding nor resign their judgment Another like president we have in his other Epistle wher he saith The younger widdows refuse for when they begin to wax wanton against Christ they will marry having damnation becaus they have cast of their first faith 1. Tim. 5.11 Tho marriage be in it self lawfull yet undertaken against the churches autority as it is it self a mortal sin so is it a casting off and a destruction of all faith And yet those widdows were beleevers and fil devotes too such as lookt to the dressing of their churches and Altars washing of their sacred vestments arâ—â— other works of charity As for mortall sin that any one will ruin the soul even of a beleever appears by the tenour of the whole new Testament especially of S. Pauls Epistles wherin he dehorts the Christians in Rome Corinth Ephesus and others from sin in generall each mortall sin in particular because the wager of sin is death neither adulterers theeues or murderers shall ever enter into the Kingdom of God of Christ Wch exhortatioÌ„ had been of no valiew and nothing to the purpose if sin had been nothing prejudiciall to one that beleeveth By this account a man may both hear read Scriptur all his life time and yet be condemnd at length both for sin and infidelity if he do not adhere closely to all truths revealed by the church and use all Sacraments and helps of salvation she propounds LA. This point requires further discussion than we have now time for And my servant hath put me in mind that dinner is brought up Wherfor break of and le ts go in MIN. Let 's in le ts in to the great work where we shall meet wth an abstract of Metaphysiks In vino veritas in pane unitas in carne bonitas Nay ther 's divinity Sacraments too Le ts in good Sr Harry on my conscience I have such a gaping appetite I could swallow a camell KN. Me thinks Dr we ar at a good feast already according to those sacred words My meat is to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work Ioh. 4. MIN. After two or three cups of wine Sr Harry I le repeat over all this discours of yours and refute it to the full Foecundi calices It was the first best miracle Christ ever did to turn water into wine I would he had turnd a little more of it VIC O Husband sweet wine and fair women are seldom found in the same countrey Content your self you had better have me wth a pot of your ale than a french face wth a whole Butt of claret Go to now MIN. That 's right too But did you never hear wt the Scotch-man said to King James when he askt him wch Byshoprick he would have Bath or Wells Marry beath beath quoth the Scotch-man The King for the conceit
materiall weight The intrinsecall valiew of some articles may infer more of necessity and obligation to an explicit beleef and practis but the least and smallest points do wth as much right as the greatest exclude a positiv misbeleef I am not bound to know or practis all things of the churches doctrin but I am bound not to disallow condemn or reject any of her traditionall Christianity has been equally handed from age to age unto us He that formally rejects any thing of this as fals doth vertually deny all the rest sith one and the same veracity deliverd all No mans privat reason invented any part of my beleef and therfor no mans reason can reject it Nay the highest points ar oftimes most contingent and consequently the least capable of a proof as Gods incarnation passion and resurrection and if mans conceits be once permitted to intermedle determin of the lesser or greater probability of points and cast away at his pleasur what himself thinks unlikly he will undoutedly go on from one negation to another till all be overthrown It may chance that in discoursing I may say somtime that all the articles of our Catholik faith be taken out of Scriptur wherin they be implicitly contained But in this I do but speak wth the vulgar and according to the capacity of hearers and t is indeed true in this sens for that all Catholik beleef is conformable to those sacred writings But in very truth to speak with wise men as well as we do think and ever shall beleev wth them the Scripturs themselvs those I mean principally wch make up the new Testament were drawn by the rule of our traditionall doctrin explicit faith and not our explicit faith gathered out of them This may appear by part of my former discours wherein I declared that the penning of Scripturs was meer accidentall and casuall and that all our traditionall faith was more ancient than Scriptur and altogether independent of it So that Scriptur and tradition go indeed hand in hand together as a joint rule of faith yet so as that Scriptur gives tradition the right hand as being its elder and judg of it self aswell as as cojudg wth it of all other doctrins For both Gospells and Epistles written in Apostles name were so far approved or rejected by the Church however they came equally armed wth Apostolicall names prefixt before them as they were found consonant or dissonant to the churches tradition For ther were more Gospells written than the four we hav and far more Epistles than thos the church admitted to her cannon And this is the reason why the Apostles themselvs and Disciples met together to try whether the preachings and writings of all their missionaries were punctually conformable to the tradition they had received from wch meeting S. Paul himself though an Apostle not of men neither by man but by Jesus Christ and God the Father Gal. 1.1 Yet would he not be exempted from that meeting After three years saith he I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter and abode wth him fifteen dayes Gal. 1.18 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem wth Barnabas and took Titus wth me also And I went up by revelation and comunicated unto them that Gospell wch I preach among the Gentiles but privatly to them wch wer of reputation least by any means I should run or had run in vain Gal. 2.1.2 By wch I think it may be gathered that the church is above the Scriptur and of greater autority than either Paul or Barnabas or any wtsoever single man and member of the Church sith she judges every ones doctrin to the approbation or rejection of it For a judg is more noble than the thing wch is subject to his censur the rule than the thing examined and ruled by it and to giv an approbation is in that formality more excellent than to receiv it Neither was ever any generall councell cald together to teach the church her doctrin But upon the rising of heresys judging by the rule of their tradition the Prelats in councell confirmd the Catholiks in the way they found them in and declared against hereticall innovations that they might desist from further commotion This rule of tradition found in the hands practis of Christians disperst over the earth left them by their forfathers could not fail so long as it was found universally agreeing in the whole Catholik body wch is animated by the spirit of infallibility especially being strengthened by testimony of Apostolicall writings wch were nothing but a part of the churches tradition coppied out or the fathers that succeeded them or other monuments that were yet remaining amongst them As for example the Christians found an injunction of praying for the dead upon the very wals windows gravstones and monuments of their deceased forfathers commended also unto them both by teachers their living books and by books their dead teachers and all children found their parents in the beleef and practice of it And therfor it was concluded that it could be no other than as it was thē esteemd an article of pure Christianity sith the whol body of Christians then present held it so their forgoers and fathers deliverd it sacred Scriptures sufficiently insinuated it Catholik writings and monuments confirmd and comended it unto them So that Madam that piece of popery you would take from me being a part of this Catholik tradition will be as hardly wrested from me as the Gospell it selfe wch the same tradition has deliverd as a coppy conformable for so much as it is unto it selfe the first and universall rule of faith by wch pape himselfe and all generall councells are guided so subject unto it that they can act nothing against it as may appear by the proceedings of the Catholik church from its very first birth and uprising unto this present day Pope Iohn the 22d. a learned man much given to reading found in many places of the Greek and Latin fathers as also in texts of sacred Scriptur as he conceived that the souls of Christians deceased went released out of purgatory thence into some place of repose on this side heaven and eternall bliss where they expected the consummation of their number that all the Catholik body might at the end of the world enter paradis together This opinion by the multitud of autoritys and arguments appeard unto him so probable that he sent it to some Christian Universitys to have their judgment if that were not indeed Christian beleef But they rose up against it and rejected it as dissonant to tradition For the Pape tho he be Overseer of the whole church yet being but one single man he cannot of himself discern the universality of a tradition so well as the whole Catholik body may do and therfor he never defines faith but with that Body conciliarly assembled and if himself i th interim should light upon an opinion how probable soever it
may seem by human arguments yet must he himself as well as other Christians lay it aside if it be confronted by Catholik tradition the great and unresistable Rule of Christianity resign himself And it seems a principle of faith had delivered unto Christians this beleef that a soul once expiated goes to heaven Pope John tho he had reason to suspect so much so that he might hav abstained from propounding his thesis yet he did not propound it in councels where faith is determined but in Schools wher opinions are disputed and distinguisht from faith and upon that account was he justly to be excused Yet was that good Prelat so tender conscienced that he is said to have askt the world forgivenes at his death if they took any offence therat adding wthal that he did it only to give them occasion to search more narrowly whether the opinion were not consonant to tradition although it had not been yet heeded If then neither Pape nor councell can go contrary to the received waies of the Church in any thing how shall I be able to do it except I make shipwrack of my faith as S. Paul affirms Hymeneus to have don even by one fals opinion though otherwis a Christian 1 Tim. 1.19 For a lesser leak will drown a ship if it be not stopt or pumpt out so will any one errour in faith sink a self opiniating spirit For in the least we shall as truly resist God the first revealing verity as in the greatest and to gainsay him in any little thing who is equally infallible in all is no les than blasphemy and an insolence intolerable Sith it stands not wth his diety to be mistaken in the smallest matter or mislead his church therin LA. The church me thinks for the quiet and safty of a kingdom might well condescend to som opinions that be not so much materiall put case they were fals for in evills the les is to be chosen and that opinion cannot be so bad as the ruin of a whol Kingdom KN. The Church being a just depositary cannot teach otherways than she has receivd in any affair Besides Christ will hav his spous to be wthout spot or wrinkle or any such thing Eph. 5.27 and that opinion being against her tradition it cannot but make a wrinkle or spot or some such thing at least in her T is sacriledg wth us to rob or steal any thing out of a materiall temple what then would it be to purloin the Churches doctrin To rent her own seamles garment or make the least hole in it were an action unbeseeming the wisdom and modesty of the heavenly spous Shee will never do it nor no member of her body such as by Gods grace I am can do it without death and ruin to it self Try that will whosoever entertains but one particular misbeleef he shall soon find that being therby separated from the Catholik body he or his successours will soon attempt another and never lin till all be layd wast Besides the Church being but a depositaty or keeper of the doctrin committed to her charg hath not power over it to exhang distrain or make it away at her pleasur against the rules of honesty And if she should to content one sort of innovatours chang or relent in one thing others that would innovat in another may justly challeng the same favour and what should she then have had remaining to her self after so many innovations made by hereticks in so many ages I think very little or nothing at all by this time T is worth your consideration to ponder this For so you may perceiv both the integrity of this immaculat spous in conserving the doctrin wherwith she has been intrusted intire and wholly sincere and the madnes of all sectarys who would each in their wild fansys have the churches compliance wth them to her own ruin and being denied flew out into all exorbitances against her and forfeyted at once by their self opinions and obstinacy both the title of Catholik they had till then enjoyed and the security they had in the churches bosom This is a worthy and profitable speculation And therfor I shall indeavour to speak therof wth as much order method as can well be used in a matter of such disorder as the confused heap of heresys jumbled together may admit THe Churches doctrine is partly about the creation and Scriptures of the old Testament partly about our redemption and things peculiar to Christianity their persons or places precepts or counsells vices or vertues Sacraments and works either morall naturall or politicall in all wch severall hereticks have at times sought to bring in innovations wch had the church complied wthall she had had little or nothing left her by this time Nay she should have contradicted her self continually and said and denied the same things The extravagancys concerning the creation either opposed the autority of canonicall books or judgd amiss of the divine natur angels and souls the beginning of the world the condition of Adam and Eve our first parents Melchisedek and the like things wch wer antecedēt to our redēption Carpocrates and Cerdon in the time of pope Hygin rejected all the old Testament Ebion on the other side made the old Testamēt to be of equal autority wth the new and out of the new he cast forth al S Pauls Epistles as erroneous Cerdon and Marcion disallowed all the Gospells besides S. Luke Cerinthus all but S. Mathew the Alogians received all but S. Iohn Luther cast away S. Iames Epistle and the books of Maccabees tho he knew that not onely S. Austin but the whole councell of Carthage had received them as canonical Severus the Acts of the Apostles Apelles taught that the Prophets spake contradictories and lies Montanus that they understood not what they said though they are called seers for their understandig Isa 1. and are said to speak as inspired by the holy Ghost 2. Pet. 1. With which of these should the church comply and how The Gnosticks would have two Gods one from whence issue good things the other author of evill The Anthropomorphits in the time of pope Damasus would have God to be truly corporeall as man is The Armenians becaus God had said that Cain should not be slain by any man would needs have him a lier becaus Cain slew himselfe Sabellius in the time of pope Sixtus 2. would not admit any more then one person in God Arrius in pope Sylvesters time opposed the equality of the three divine persons The Alogians acknowledged not the Son of God to be the word The Ignoites maintained that Christ was ignorant of som things in particular of the day of judgment Macedonius in the time of pope Liberius made the Holy Ghost inferiour to the Father and Son not of the same essence wth them but a creatur Petrus Abaylardus said that the Holy Ghost was the soul of the world The Greeks that he proceeded not from the Father
against this heresy and the councell of Lateran under Pape Innocent the third censurd it III. That no true miracles are done at Saints shrines was stiffly maintained by the Waldenses a company of men no les insolent than ignorant and indeed plaine idiots who denied any Miracles ever to have been wrought in the Church not knowing perhaps that our Lord had said In my name they shall cast out devills Mar. ult As cōcerning other persons in the church Byshops Priests judges Magistrates Religious I. Wicleph following the simple Waldenses and Huss following Wicleph taught that all Byshops are equall in autority and jurisdiction Luther being excomunicated by Pape Leo the tenth for his innovations and pertinacy therin following Huss said that the Pape was no more than another Byshop In the same errour for som time were the Grecians who for the heresies of Nestorius condemnd in the Ephesin Synod and of Dioscorus and Eutiches condemned in the Chalcedon councell had separated themselves from the unity of the Church as also the Armenians who had don the like upon contempt of the decrees of Chalcedon but in the councell of Florence under Pape Eugenius the fourth both the Greeks and Armenians after a long dispute submitted themselves to the Church and in that councell the Papes primacy was confirmed acknowledged by all both Greeks and Latins II. The Pseudapostoli Wicleph and Huss avouched that both Prelat and Prince by any mortall sin forfeited all their autority condemnd in the councell of Constance Sess 8. as also in the councell of Trent both under pope Paule Sess 7. and Iulius Sess 4. III. The Waldenses denied he had power of indulgences or remission of temporall penaltys censurd by the councell of Constance Sess 8. VI. The Pseudapostoli denied any obedience to be due either to Pape or Prelats or any one but Christ as also the Beguins and Bogards taught that a man that is come to the state of perfection is bound to obey no man V. The simple Waldenses and their ape Wicleph affirmd that neither the Apostles nor their successours had autority to make any decretalls or cannon Law Against these is the councell of Vienna under Pope Clement the fift and the councell of Constance Sess 8. 15. VI. The Vadians or Anthropomorphits and after them the Waldenses held that neither pape nor church could enjoy any temporall possessions The same mischieuous doctrin was taught afterward by Wicleph the poor men of Lions shadow and after him by Luther that grand licker up of excrements who by that doctrine invited the German Princes to rob the goods of the Church This errour is condemnd also in the said councell of Constance Sess 8. VII Iohn de Wessalia condemnd at Mentz in the time of the emperour Frederick the third taught that both Pape Church might erre VIII Donatus in Africa in the time of Pope Liberius and emperour Constantius taught that none but good men were wthin the church This Donatus taking it ill that Cecilianus was ordaind Byshop of Carthage he calumniated him in things he could not prov or make good for the wch he was declared by the judges a jugling knave upon this ignominy he divided himselfe from the Church giving it out that the true Church was onely on his side and not wth them that favourd Caecilianus and so going on from one thing to another infected almost all Africa in the time of Pape Iulius This heresy of his was taken up by Rogatus and the Circumcellions and afterward by Huss and Luther and written against by S. Austin in very many places and condemnd at last by the councell of Constance Sess 15. IX That the noble senate of Christian Prelats met together in generall councells erred in their decrees and canons was the opinion first of Arrius who was himselfe condemnd in the councell of Nice then of Nestorius who had been censurd in the councell of Ephesus then of Eutiches and Dioscorus who had been judgd in the councell of Chalcedon then of Huss the Boheman Wicleph who was cast in the councell of Constance lastly of Luther whose wicked doctrin was anathematisd in the councell of Trent This heresy if it may not rather be stiled blasphemy against Christ and his church whom he promisd to confirm in all truth is largely confuted by Iohn Byshop of Rochester Iodocus Chlitoueus William Ockam Iohn Eckius and severall other Catholik doctours X. That all Priests are equall and a Byshop is nothing above an ordinary Priest was the errour first of Aerius then of the Waldenses Wicleph and Luther condemnd by S. Austin in his book of heresies c. 53. Whether Episcopacy be another order or onely another degree in the same order t is certain that in the old Law the chief priest or Byshop had distinct vestments and entred the Sancta sanctorum wch others did not and in the new Testament a Byshop constitutes Priests Tit. 1. not contrary nor is any Disciple in the Acts of the Apostles read to have used imposition of hands but onely the Apostles And so the second councell of Hispala declares that confirmation belongs onely to the Byshop XI Luther more fondly added that all Christians are equally Priests forgetting that Holy Scriptur expresly speaks of segregating or setting apart some from the rest to that function I left thee at Crete that thou shouldst constitute Priests Tit. 1. XII The filthy fellow added that Priests ought not to be unmarried or separated from women wherein he exceeded Iovinian who indeed equalled marriage wth virginity but blamed none for remaining single himself living so to avoid the troubles of wedlock This he taught the better to justify himself who being a Priest and a Religious man of the Hermits of S. Austin had revolting seduced a Nun. The same was done taught by Occolompadius who had been a monk of S. Brigit Bucer a Dominican fryar the rest of Luthers retinue Impiously wthout doubt for it was prohibited a Priest to marry in the very beginning of the church by the canons of the Apostles can 27. and afterwards by the Neocesarian councell c. 1. decret and it appears in sacred Scriptur it self that such was the practis of primitiv times XIII The Pepusians of old promoted women not onely to the Priest but Priesthood too XIV All universitys or generall studies for clargy men are condemnd by Wicleph as brought into the church by paganism forgetting that the Apostle exhorts Timothy a good Christian to remain permanent in the things he had learnd 2. Tim. 1. and that in the very Apostles days the Christians constituted schools at Antioch Act. 14. and afterwards at Alexandria wherin Panthenus was first prefect then Clemens then Origen And therfor the councell of Constance justly condemnd this errour amongst the rest sess 8. against the 29. articl XV. As also that other opinion of his wherin he taught that superiours be they Ecclesiasticall Prelates or Kings may be punnisht by subjects at their
scandalous sinners and obstinate Hereticks calling them the censurs of Antichrist not heeding that S. Paul himselfe practised it I thought good saith he to deliver him up to Satan that his Spirit might be safe 1. Cor. 5. IX Finally all Christian buriall in holy ground the said Waldenses contemned as impertinent and vain These be the extravagant opinions concerning Temples As for Purgatory I. Some Greeks and Armenians avoucht ther is no such place wherin soules after their separation are purgd from dregs contracted in the body But the councell of Florence under pope Eugenius the fourth confirmd the contrary Catholik doctrin II. Luther afterward allthough he held Purgatory yet he had three errours concerning it first he taught that souls there might themselvs either merit or demerit again that a soul there was not certain of his salvation thirdly that a soul ther doth sin so long as it abhors those pains and seeketh rest The same autority from whence he had the beleef of purgatory might if he had listed have conserved him from these misbeleefs concerning it III. That almsdeeds prayers pennances and Sacrifices made by the living for the dead and souls in purgatory do nothing at all avail for their releasment was the heresy and errour first of Aerius then of the Armenians then of the Albigenses then of the Waldenses and lastly of Luther But it is confuted by S. Austin S. Gregory Theophylact and S. Chrysostome And four councells have defined against it Carthaginense quartum c. 95. Valense c. 4. decr Toletanum c. 22. and Florentinum for the union of the Greeks under pope Eugenius the fourth As for Hell I. Almaricus stifly denied it affirming there was no other hell but onely a mans owne conscience guilty of sin The Albanenses said that the punishments of hell were no other than what we suffer in this world Hermannus Risswick wthout any exposition denied any such thing as hell at all II. Origen taught that the pains of hell were not to be eternall Both these fansies are against Gospell and rejected by the councell of Lateran under pope Innocent the third Heaven the place of eternall bliss I make no doubt but that many men born Christians if they fell into heresys came at length to that Atheism as to deny it sith I meet wth so many here in England who deride it as a fiction But I have not read of any in authentick authours who did so though concerning the resurrection unto that bliss and finall beatitud many are said to have held erroneously As for Resurrection ther have been at times five erroneous opinions 1. The sadducees amongst the Jewes and among the Christians first Simon Magus then Valentin Apelles Marcus and Cerdon denied all resurrection of the flesh Against these writes S. Paul 1 Cor. 15. II. Eutichius Byshop of Constantinople taught that the body after its resurrection should be invisible and unpalpable S. Gregory not then Pope sent thither embassadour from the Apostolick sea confuted him openly before Tiberius Constantin then emperour so that Tiberius caused Eutichius his book to be burnt III. Origen said that our bodies after resurrection should be still mortall and after many ages fall to dust never to rise more Expresly against Scriptur wher t is said that mortall shall put on imortality 1 Cor. 15. VI. The Armenians defended that all should rise again in mans sex But if this had been true doctrin thē our Lord by saying so had easlier answered the Sadduces argument than by saying as he did that none should marry but they shall all be as the Angels of God Math. 22. Lastly the same Armenians affirmd that our Lord rose not upon sunday but on the Saturday before Me thinks it should be a hard task for them to show how he rose the third day sith he died on Fryday As for Beatitude 1. the Armenians and after them Petrus Abailardus a French man in the time of Pape Innocent the second then Arnaldus Brixiensis from whence perhaps came those hereticks Arnaldistae excomunicated yearly at Rome in caena Domini and lastly Almaricus affirmed that the blessed in heaven do not see Gods essence but behold him in his creatures S. Paul is contrary to these Now we see by a mirrour in an enigm then we shal see face to face 1 Cor. 13. II. Cerinthus would have heavenly beatitude to consist in the delights of the flesh and that Christs kingdom after the resurrection should be earthly wch errour he drew from some carnall Jews being himself contemporary wth S. John the Apostle But t is gainsayed by S. Paul The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink but justice and peace and joy in the holy Ghost Rom. 14. Papias Byshop of Hierapolis did indeed teach that Christ after the general resurrection should raign upon earth wth his faithfull retinue who had been sufferers here a thousand years drawn to that opinion by such a speech in Apocalips c. 20. and after him Irneus Apollinaris Lactantius Victorius Pictavensis But they held not the same as Cerinthus nor were pertinacious in their opinion against the church wch I think expounds that place of the blesseds reign wth Christ according to the soul from the howr of death to the generall judgment for there t is added Haec est resurrectio prima this is the first resurrection namely of the soul after the bodies death III. Origen taught that neither misery nor beatitude should be eternall for he conceived certain alternations or vicissitudes of both so that the blessed souls after som years should return to mortal bodys and thence be called again to beatitude in a kind of circle But all Scripture is against this fansy Between us and you is a great Chaos so that such as would pass from hence to you cannot c. Luk. 16. IV. That most perfect finall beatitude is to be had in this life was one of the errours of the Bogards and Beguins religious men and women in Germany censured as I remember in the councell of Vienna under Pape Clement the fift The Bogards suffred for their obstinacy whereat the women afrighted submitted themselvs and remain to this day living honestly in a society wthout emission of any vow so that when they pleas they may go forth and marry V. The same partys said that an intellectuall natur is blessed naturally in it self It had been well they had remembred that the grace of God is life eternall Rom. 6. VI. The Armenians taught that no soul is beatified before doomsday as also some Greeks adding that sinners are not punisht till that day This is the opinion Pope John the 22. propounded to the University of Paris But it was gainsayed by the councel of Florence under Pope Eugenius the fourth as contrary to the churches beleef and the Scripture it self does in a manner expresly refute it We know if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved we have a hous not made by hands eternall in the heavens 2 Cor.
observation wch I noted at times in my own privat reading never before taken notice of by any LA. So much the better for new things do excite attention VIC First you know that the Papish church sends forth her Priests and Religious to reduce nations from paganism and conveigh their faith up and down the World contrary to expres Scriptur Hast thou faith have it to thy self Rom. 14.21 II. Christ sayeth When thou dost fast anoint thy head wash thy face Math. 6.17 Papists never observe this nor do they think themselves bound in Lent ember other fasting days to put painting or black patches on otheir face to curl and powder their hayr anoint their head with jessamy butter spiknard other sweet ointments but the Gospell is neglected by them wthout any fear or conscience at all III. They hold that no body should forsake their religion directly contrary to Gods will The Spirit saith expresly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith 1. Tim. 4.1 God sayes some shal they say they shall not and by their good will they would let no body do it IV. They hold that the virgin Mary was taken up soul and body into heaven and would perswade us we shall be so too yet truth says that flesh and blood cannot in herit the Kingdom of heaven 1. Co. 15. V. They will tell you punctually on what day of the month Easter Christmas or any holiday happens Of such t is written Ye observ days and months and times and years I am afraid of you least I have bestowed labour in vain Gal. 4.10 VI. Such of them as be strong and healthy fast in Lent if any be sickly he eats flesh contrary to wt is writtē He that is weak let him eat herbs Ro. 14.2 VII T is written If thine enemy hunger feed him if he thirst give him drink Rom. 12.20 here the Papists commit two errours first they hold that a man may give both meat and drink to one that is hungry secondly they will do this not onely to their enemyes but neighbours and friends VIII They bring the Virgin Marys Pictur into the church wth a child in her arms tho they cannot but know that she stiles herself the handmayd of the Lord and t is written Cast out the Bondwoman her son Gal. 4.30 IX Papists will have the church forsooth to teach us our Religion and faith But it is written Wo unto him that saith unto the wood Awake and to the dumb stone Arise it shall teach Hab. 2.19 Is the church any thing but wood and stone T is flat idolatry thus to worship wood and stone and the works of mens hands Wo unto them for it X. They teach that righteousnes pleases God sin displeases wher as indeed they are both equally reprovable When the comforter is come he will reprove the world of sin and of righteousnes Io. 16.8 XI You know Madam we sit in our pews all service and Sermon time wthout uttering word nor can any discern our lips to stir all the while but the Papist women as soon as they enter their churches down they fal on their knees so long as they remain there patter forth prayers you may see hundreds of their lips moving together somtimes you may hear them cry Jesu Jesu I dare swear they speak in the church their religion teaches them to do it contrary to what is written It is a shame for women to speak in the church Cor. 14.34 XII They hold that both prodigality covetousnes in respect of our own goods fornicatiō leache ry in regard of our own bodys is unlawfull contrary to expres Scriptur Is it not lawful for me to do what I will wth mine own Mat. 20.15 XII They hold that they abstain from all kind of flesh in Lēt yet they eat fish c. not understāding the Scriptur Ther is one kind of flesh of men another of beasts another of fishes another of birds Co. 15.39 VIC XIII LA. Nay thirteenthly fourteenthly be words too long we have not time to proceed sweet mistres you hear I am cald VIC Many are called but few ar chosen saith the Scriptur Give me leav but to say over my nine and thirty articles LA. They will serv for good discours at table how come they to be so many VIC Articles against popery can never be more or les than nine and thirty K. James could have made his up to forty if he had pleasd but they must be no more than nine and thirty nor yet no les according as t is written Of the Iewes receivd I forty stripes save one 2. Cor. 11.24 LA. You are so witty VIC A parsons wise must needs be witty as t is written He that walks wth a wise man shall be wise Prov. 13.20 It should be she that walks but the Scriptur is compendious and somtimes leavs out a letter nay somtimes a whol syllable as in that saying God made man upright Eccl. 7.29 Ther man is set for woman for t is wel enough known that Adam had a stitch in his side and so went up and down stooping LA. Let us carry in your nine and thirty articles to the table VIC For S. Harry now and then to bite upon according as t is written man livs not by bread alone LA. Enough enough VIC So indeed it is written Luc. 22.38 Satis est It is enough FINIS