taught his holy Prophets and seruants to vtter in their prayers and that this is the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes and in other bookes of the Scriptures that whatsoeuer thing befall a man wherein he is in the feruent affection of his heart to pray vnto the Lord if he haue in memorie the spéeches which holy men in such distresse vttered it is a great help vnto him if not he may help his memory with a booke To this you reply that touching the vse of sentences and phrases of scripture you could easily consent but that ye perceiue I would not agrée with ye in certaine points the first that this is required only at the hands of Gods children with promise to be heard and accepted I wonder with what eyes ye can sée that I would not agrée with ye in this thing I put ye out of doubt I hold assuredly that none haue promise to be heard and accepted but Gods children though they vse neuer so much the sentences of Scripture in their prayers The first hinderance of your consent is remoued The second is that ye sée I would not agrée with ye that the same spirit doth now teach Gods childrē to pray which taught the Prophets holy men in other ages I professe vnto ye that I hold it a wicked opinion to deny that the same spirit doth nowe teach Gods children to pray which taught the Prophets c. and so the second let is remoued In déede héere you and I dissent that I hold that as our faith is wrought by the word of God so is it nourished and quickned vnto prayer and euery good work by the same and that the holy Ghost hath not only taught matters by the Prophets Apostles but also spéeches and phrases sit for to vtter y e same And you hold that because the same spirit now teacheth to pray which taught the Prophets Apostles that either we may not or we néede not vse their spéeches The third stop remaineth which is that I take it God should be delighted with words and sentences You greatly mistake it and do but cauill for I shewed my minde not that God would regard words sentences but we should be holpen and comforted by them Thus the third and last hinderance is also remoued and now you may consent that in our prayers we may vse the prescript formes sentences and phrases of the word of God To my next wordes where I sayd the reason why there be so many prayers prescribed in the booke of the Psalmes is that whatsoeuer distresse befall a man c. you reply yée thinke I halt greatly that our question being about Idolatrous leiturgies I séeke to shrowd my selfe vnder the vse of Canonicall scripture Indéed this would be a learned question whether idolatrous leiturgies be idolatrie or whether it be not idolatry to pray an idolatrous praier who would looke for so childish a shift you know our question is about the reading of a praier when one prayeth And if it be not idolatry to vse the praiers of the scriptures euen in their prescript forme then all read praier offred to God as a sacrifice is not idolatrie I reason thus it is not idolatry to pray the Lords praier or any other prescript forme deliuered in the Canonicall scriptures therefore it is no idolatry to vse a prescript forme of praier which is framed after the rules of true praier as to aske of God alone through the onely mediation of his sonne and for no matters but such as he hath promised to giue Yée say it is not true doctrine that those Psalmes and Scriptures were written that we should vse in our praiers the words there set downe Your reason is because there be other vses I doo confesse there be other vses but that might yet be a speciall reason why there be so many praiers prescribed Then yée say yée do not disalow the speaking according to the word of God but that we might not affect so much the phrases of spéech as the true féeling of our wants He that hath not the féeling of his wants in praier but affecteth phrases is but an hypocrite But ye are in a vaine opinion if ye thinke the vse of the phrases and sentences of scripture being fitly applied is any hinderance either to the féeling or opening our wants because where skill or memorie faileth I would haue them vse the helpe of a booke I am you feare papistically affected vnto words and sentences I haue already shewed that this is not to affect the words and sentences but the instruction the support and quickning which our faith receiueth by those words sentences And this doctrine is not as you charge it disagréeing from the counsell of the Holy ghost which willeth vs to continue in praier to striue in praier nor contrarie to Dauid which said O my soule c nor to Paul who teacheth that the spirit helpeth our infirmities and maketh request for vs. But your doctrine which saith we must continue in prayer therfore we may not vse such helps the spirit dooth helpe our infirmities and maketh request for vs therefore we may not be holpen by the praiers or by the words of the holy scripture is phantasticall for the Holy ghost doth helpe our infirmities and teach vs to pray by the written word You thinke it were hypocriticall worshipping of God to take helpe by a booke when we know not what to aske If a man know not what to aske he shall be able to vnderstand little by the booke But a man may know what he should aske and yet not so well able to expresse the same without helpe both for memory and feruencie Stinted praiers yée say are as Cushions for idle papists hypocrites and Atheists I graunt that such people doo abuse all the best things shall the godly therefore be debarred from the vse I doo teach that whether a man of himselfe pray without a booke or vpon a booke if he pray not in spirit with faith he dooth but offer the sacrifice of fooles his praier is abhominable Therfore it is but your lauish spéech when ye say I giue libertie to the lame sacrifices on the contrary if a man pray in faith vpon a booke or without a booke it is true praier and such as God heareth God will haue no strange fire put vpon his Altar say you I graunt it is so but praiers framed by the rules of scripture and offered vp in faith are not strange fire Yée wish all men to take héed of this craftie doctrine and I wish all men not to be to hastie in receiuing new phantasticall opinions Your answer vnto those two Psalmes which I noted were giuen as a prescript forme of praier to be vsed of the Church and the forme of blessing prescribed to the Préests to blesse the people withall Num. 6 is more then friuolous For touching the first which is 92 appointed for the
Brownists of necessitie if your spéeches be weighed séeing all Churches haue and doo things which you affirme to be most detestable idolatry but let the matter come into question to be debated among the Churches and you will be found Anabaptists for imagining such a Christian libertie and fréedome in the Church that nothing is to be receyued which is imposed by commaundement Then ye say that it breaketh our libertie S. Paul proueth most plainely to the Galathians and Colossians I pray ye then that we may sée such plaine proofe which as yet none but your selues can espy note the sentences that will prooue the matter You take it there is no warrant to set foorth any prescript forme of prayer because Christ hath prescribed a forme Ye thinke I might more safely reason thus Christ hath prescribed a forme of prayer therefore neyther Pope Byshop or Prelate ought to impose any other vpon Gods children vntill they can shewe some warrant from Gods word so to do I am fully of your minde that none ought to impose any other forme vntill they can shewe warrant from Gods word But nowe marke how the Argument will followe Moyses the Prophets and our Lord Iesus gaue prescript formes of prayer and praysing God to be vsed by the Church therefore the reading of a prescript forme of prayer when one prayeth or offreth vp the sacrifice of prayse to God doth not change the worke of the Spirit into an idoll nor is not a breaking Christian libertie nor idolatrie for the holie Scripture is farre from appointing any idolatrous thing Then I reason further that if the Prophets and our Sauiour gaue prescript formes to be vsed the Church may take order to sée them vsed And from hence it doth followe that the Church may impose prescript forme of godlie prayers which are framed aright If any thinke this a strange consequence let them consider that the Lords prayer in generall conteyneth in it matter touching the substance and summe of all prayers which haue béene made or are to be made aright The Psalmes and other prayers in the Scriptures doo expresse particulars with sundrie sentences and phrases most fitte to expresse the same Nowe the Church hath power and authoritie not onely to expound these prayers but also to applye them vnto euerie seuerall vse and necessitye This I adde withall that the Church hath no authoritye to bring in any one thing in prayer which is not conteyned in those prayers of Gods word but when the prayers be composed and framed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scriptures and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brought in which God hath not commaunded Lay aside therefore all your shiftes touching Apocrypha mens writings and inequalitie with Canonicall Scriptures and bring your Arguments against the prescript forme and the reading to prooue that they make a prayer holie in it selfe to become abhominable and contrarie vnto spirituall prayer That yee say our Sauiour neuer vsed the words of the Lords prayer when he prayed neyther commaunded his Disciples to say ouer these words neyther doo we reade that the Apostles did euer vse or enforced others to vse certayne words c. ye speake vntruly for the Disciples desired him to teach them to pray as Iohn taught his disciples to pray and he commaundeth when yée pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen hallowed be thy name c. Luke 11. and S. Mathew an Apostle with S. Luke the Euangelist hath deliuered the same to the whole Church if we reade not any where that they did vse the Lords prayer or commaunded others to vse it Will ye reason thus we do not reade that the Apostles or the Church in their time did baptize Infants therefore Infants were not baptized or will ye reason thus we neuer read that the Apostles did pray eyther before or after they preached therefore they did not your argument is the very same with these two former yet from hence ye will néeds conclude y t we will impose vpon whole Churches certaine words euen our own words stinting the spirit of God I haue alreadie shewed that the Church hath not authoritie to bring any forme of prayer into the assemblies but such as is agréeable to the rules appointed for prayer by the word of God And where ye call it a stinting of the Spirit I aunswere that the Spirit of God is not stinted but some men are furthered by prescript formes their infirmities requiring such an eye as I haue shewed before Argum. 4. Because true prayer must be of faith vttered with heart and liuely voyce it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs c. Argum. 5. To worship the true God after an other manner then he hath taught is Idolatrie But he hath commaunded vs to come vnto him heauie laden with contrite hearts c. How dare we then bring a dead letter vnto God to stand reading of the same in stead of faithfull petitions quenching the spirit Argum. 6. We must striue in prayer with continuance c. therefore not vpon a booke These thrée I ioyned together as hauing no waight Ye say I answere by playne contradiction without Scripture or proofe In déede you quote Scripture to prooue those things which are not doubted of as that true prayer must be of faith vttered with hart that to worship God after an other manner then he hath taught is idolatrie that we must striue in prayer with continuance But what scripture do ye bring to prooue that it is presumptuous ignorance to vse the help of a booke that those which reade vpon a booke come not with faith and contrite hearts c. but stand reading a dead letter which quencheth the Spirit and that a booke is no helpe for continuance in prayer what Scripture I say bring yee to prooue any of these is not my bare denyall as good as your bare affirmation and in this farre better that I haue before proued the vse of reading by y e word of God Dauid say you would prayse the Lord with hart and doyce therefore not vpon a booke S. Paule would pray with the spirit and with vnderstanding therefore not vpon a booke Dauid and Paule had not so much néed of the booke as other men But whē they will other to sing prayses to God as in Psalmes Himnes and spirituall songs did they not send them to the booke or to the prescript formes wherein others might praise God together with them although they binde not men alwaies to the booke Then yée adde a reason why praier read cannot be true praier which is that in reading we fetch the matter from the booke which mooueth the heart In true praier we fetch the matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake as I beléeued and therefore I spake This is a most ridiculous vanitie for tell me this when we bring foorth in true praier matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake
ouercome Then yée turne your selues to those poore soules as yée terme thē whom we like miserable Physicians séeke to cure and your Counsell you giue them I doo allow it for it is the same in effect if you could sée that I gaue them before I would to God the people did follow it we should not then haue one Brownist The Deuill counterfaiting Christs voice in hereticall schismatikes should not be able to allure and call away the shéepe from their shéepeheards Now remaineth the last point onely that I shew some reason to prooue our Ministery to be of Christ The ministery of the Gospell which bringeth the worde of faith and reconciliation betwéene God and the worlde is the true ministerie of Christ for the Deuil and Antichrist ordeine no such ministerie Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no word nor doctrine but the sacred scriptures It preacheth faith in God through Christ and the doctrine of repentance deliuering the holy sacraments as seales to confirme the same Let all the schismatikes in the world barke against it and say we haue no word nor Sacraments yet this is the holy word God so loued the world that hee gaue his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting It may be sayde that many ministers in England doo not nor cannot preach the Gospell how then is their ministery the ministery of reconciliation Héere note that as we must distinguish betwéene the ministery and the man himselfe which is the minister for the man may be of the Deuill and yet his ministery of God so must we also distinguish betwéene the function it selfe and the execution of the same For when one is called to bee a minister of the Gospell which is able and dooth not preach the defect is not in the function but in his negligence about the execution Likewise when the office or function is layd vpō him that cannot preach the function it selfe is entyre the defect is in the execution thereof through his disabilitie I say therfore that the Ministerie of England is the Ministerie of the Gospell though some doo not and some cannot Preach Then further such as haue the calling and ordination of the Church haue the Ministerie of Christ for it is giuen to the Church to haue power to call and ordeine Ministers Now if the Church doo falt and breake either by error or negligence in some rules which are to be obserued about this calling and ordinatiō yet the power is not disanulled nor the function destroyed vnlesse we will hold that where there is transgression either of ignorance or otherwise the whole is ouerthrowne and so conclude that there is no praier nor worship of God nor any true seruice doone vnto him vnder heauen because all is with errors and faults In England the Ministers haue their calling and ordination by the Church of God For that people which hath forsaken heresies and false worship and imbraced the doctrine of the Gospell hath in it the true Church which hath the power And the Ministers intrude not themselues but haue the power giuen them by the hands of the Bishops who doo it not by their owne authoritie nor by any authoritie from Antichrist but as committed to their trust by publike authoritie Moreouer that is the Ministerie of God which is to bring men to the faith and to build vp the body of Christ The Ministerie of England is to none other end For the whole drift the whole scope and burthen laid vpon them is to féede with wholsome doctrine and to guide in the waye of godlinesse the shéepe of Christ walking before them in godlye conuersation The Brownist will not take himselfe héere conuinced but will say these causes are but pretended and are not in truth I will therefore now reason from the effect together with that which is properly adioyned to the Ministerie of Christ That Ministerie with the execution whereof there is ioyned the effectuall grace power blessing and operation of the Holy-ghost to the true conuersion of mens soules is not a Ministerie of the Deuill nor of Antichtist nor commeth not in the life and power of the beast but is indeed the true Ministerie of Christ I thinke the Brownists will not be so beastly as to affyrme that the grace and operation of the holy Ghost to the conuersion of mens soules is ioyned to that and worketh by that which is of the Deuill and commeth in the life and power of Antichrist Then it remayneth only to shewe that there hath béene and is this grace and worke in the execution of our function If the Brownists will deny that euer they felt that maiestie and power in the preaching which can not be in the words of man but only in that word which is sharper then any two edged sword and pierceth so déepe as to be a discerner of the thoughts and secret intents Or if they will denie that euer they haue béene driuen by it vnto hatred sorrowe and remorse for sinne and raysed vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenesse and with the promises of eternall glorie Yet vnto many other which by it are conuerted vnto the Lord in déede which vnto feare and trembling doo féele the power and swéetnesse of the liuely word it may be sayd as S. Paule speaketh to the Corinths for when his aduersaries did denie him to be an Apostle the Corinths by his Ministerie were begotten in Christ wherevpon he sayth If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet am I vnto you for you are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord 1. Cor. 9. ver 2. Euen so if the Ministery of Englād be not the Ministery of Christ vnto others yet you can not doubt of it your faith your repentance your ioy in the Lord are the seale of it You can not but sée and knowe that they be vile blasphemous wretches which beare ye in hand that it is not the word of God nor the grace of his spirit which worketh in ye but the power of the Deuill and the spirit of Antichrist You knowe it is the direct way which the Deuill taketh by his ministers to bring in flat Atheisme to disgrace and throwe downe the credite of the ministerie But doth it not make against the Ministerie of England that many of the Brownists confesse they haue béene greatly moued at sometimes with the power of the preaching and at the administration of the Sacraments for may it not bée sayd héerevpon that it is but a deceyuable shewe of grace and power for if it had béene in truth it would haue continued I answer it is sufficient to proue the Ministerie and that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with it when men haue bin so moued although they do not continue séeing the reprobate do féele the power and taste the swéetnes of the word for a time Hebr. 6. He that hath therefore felt the power of God in his soule by the
the name and I haue heard diuers say they go beyond Browne But whosoeuer shal reade his books and peruse all their writings shall well see that he deserueth to haue the honour if any be and to be called the Captaine and maister of them all They haue all their furniture from him they do but open his packe and displaye his wares They haue not a sharpe arrowe which is not drawne out of his quiuer Then next touching the question betweene them and me let the reader consider it is not about the controuersie in our Church as whether there be imperfections corruptions and faults in our worship ministerie and church gouernment nor how many great or small But whether there be such heynous enormities as destroy the verye life and being of a true Church and make an vtter diuorse from Christ I will lay it open more plaine by a comparison which the Scripture vseth The Church is like a man in whom there be many parts and members Rom. 12. If all the parts or members of the body haue their iust proportion be whole and sound and set in their due order the soule and life departed he is no longer a man to speake properly but the dead carcasse of a man But now if he be sicke and diseased so that all partes are feeble or if he be deformed with sores and maimes wanting hand foote eye nose or such like yet is he still a man so long as the soule and life remaine in him All men doo know this to be true yea euen the simplest make no doubt or controuersie about it Let vs see therefore whether it be a fitte comparison with the Church and whether it be so in it of necessitie and as manifest by the doctrine of the holy scriptures as this other is vnto our bodily senses To finde this we must first consider whether there be no true Church of GOD but that which is perfect in this worlde Wee knowe that there are none but Heretikes yea ranke abhominable heretikes which obstinately deny this cleere doctrine of the holy Scriptures namely that euen the most faithfull and the most godly are not perfect while they liue vpon the earth We know but in part 1. Cor. 13. In many things we sinne all Iam. 3. v. 2. And who vnderstandeth his errors or who can tell how oft he offendeth Psal 19. The perfectest members of the Church doo erre doo sinne are maimed are weake are spotted and deformed many wayes Nowe whereas all the members be in this case needes must the whole body which is composed of them be in the same estate Then we may not looke for a Church in this world which is not spotted deformed maymed and weake in some respects But the question must bee how farre it may bee deformed and maimed and yet remaine aliue and so a true Church of God Let all the partes bee ioyned together let there be all sortes of officers and offices yet if the life and as it were the soule of the Church be wanting it is but a dead carcasse Contrarywise let there be some members wanting some maimed all parts deformed and weake yet is it a true Church of God so long as the soule and life dooth remaine in it And what is the soule and life of the Church Iesus Christ apprehended by faith I liue now saith Saint Paul but not any longer I but Christ liueth in me Galath 2. ver 20. All the members of the Church are incorporate and graffed into Christ by faith and doo growe in him and through the operation of his spirite receiue the iuice and sappe of life from him Iohn 15. Whosoeuer beleeueth in the Sonne of God shall be saued though he be full of errors full of infirmities and deformities both in body and soule labouring to be purged But if a man or an assembly do hold that which ouerthroweth the faith in Christ they are gone there is no life remaining As the Papacie holdeth many things aright touching Christ but it holdeth sundry things contrary which ouerthrow the very foundation of the faith and so the Papacie it selfe is not Gods true Church Thus haue I laide open the question betweene mee and the Brownists wherein then are the Maisters and Capitaines of Brownisme deceiued And what is it in which they seeke victorie and glory They knowe there is no sinne no error no corruption nor no abuse but that if all the learnedest in the worlde would take vpon them to cleere and to defend the same they shall not be able Then they are desirous of victorie of triumphe and glorye ouer all both wise and learned Heere therefore they entrench themselues they make their Bulwarkes plant their ordinance set themselues in arraye and sound the Trumpet of defiance against all They presume none shall euer be able to driue them out of their holde And indeed he that condemneth an error and goeth no further can neuer be vanquished But heerein they are deceiued that out of this Forte they will batter downe the Church For theyr ordinance is ouer weake for that they stoppe in powder in great plenty for they laye on toong enough and so make terrible thundering crakes But the Bullets which come foorth and which should doo the deed are nothing but hereticall erronious and fantasticall opinions and so all vanisheth into smoake They must therefore at the last leaue their holde and take them to their heeles for Gods Church will not be battered downe by any assaults of Schismatikes Some will thinke hardly that I terme them Schismatikes seeing they be men that are accounted zealous and stand for good things But the truth is they be not onely a Schisme yea a vile Schisme rending themselues from the Church of England and condemning by their assertions the whole visible Church in the worlde euen as the Donatists did of olde time but also they maintaine heresies and some that touche the very foundation of faith and Christian religion they be vtter violaters of ecclesiasticall discipline they abridge the power of the ciuill Magistrate beside sundry fantasticall opinions For when as the life of the church consisteth in the apprehensson of Christ through faith it must needs be an heresie to conclude as they doo a nullitie a quite ouerthrow of the same from errors faults which are not fundamentall Faith and regeneration being vnperfect in all that liue vpon the earth it is heriticall to say that is no Church of God which holding the sounde doctrine hath sinnes and great abuses in it The stablenesse of Gods couenant towarde the Church being founded onely vpon his free grace it is detestable impietie to hang it vpon the works of men as the Brownists do when they affyrme that where there is any open sinnes suffered in an assemblie the couenant is disanulled with them all And if men consider well they shall finde that the whole Brownisme resteth vppon the heresie of perfection and Anabaptisticall freedome For from hence that it
false manner their worship being made of c. I did deny that by affirming that the worship of our Church is the imbracing the holy Bible by the doctrine thereof c Ye say I beg the question and prooue not our worship by the Bible And I say if yée call it begging you beg the question would haue that graunted vnto yée as true which is most false For excepting imperfections wants spots blemishes faults which destroy not the true worship of God our Church dooth worship the Lord aright without heresie blasphemy or idolatry The doctrine of our Church is published if yée can take exception against any point to be heresie or blasphemie bring it foorth that it may be tried by the Bible Then next yée complaine further that I do not answer one of those 4. apparant reasons which yée bring why it is false and contrary to the Bible Well then they may now be considered Thus yée haue noted them with figures ouer the head our worship being made of the 1 inuention of man euen of the 2 man of sinne 3 erronious and 4 imposed vpon vs. I know not for what cause they should be called apparant vnlesse by a farre fetched trope of Metonymie because they manifest and make apparant your vanitie and Anabaptisticall error For the first thrée be no more but one bare affirmation of that principall transgression which yée charge vs withall For all false worship is mans inuention whether it be the inuention of the man of sinne or of any other man it is all one before God who respecteth not persons but the wickednesse of the sinne Also to be mans inuention in Gods worship and to be erronious is all one For whatsoeuer man inuenteth in Gods worship is erronious and whatsoeuer in the same is erronious hath béene inuented by man So that the thrée first are all one bare affirmation and the very same with your article Your Anabaptisticall error is in the fourth for yée challenge such a fréedome to the Church as that nothing may be imposed vpon the flockes no not any thing that the Church gouernours shall decrée by the word which dooth ouerthrow the discipline in a great part Then yée procéed and say for further manifestation of our worship in particular let the booke of Common prayer be examined by the word of God which yée terme a great pregnant idoll full of errors blasphemies and abhominations If the booke stand to be tried by Gods word there is no doubt but as all things done by men euen the best it shall be found vnperfect He that will haue it to be no true worship of God in which there be errors and spots holdeth the heresie of perfection which is very foule and detestable for it is as farre beyond our power to bee perfect in Gods worship as to performe perfect obedience in the second table of the lawe And touching the booke of Common prayer let the reader consider it is not the question betwéene vs whether there be faults in it great faults or how many but whether it be a great pregnant idol full of heresies blasphemies and abhominations I confesse that all men ought with vtter detestation to shunne our worship if it be such as you accuse it But indéed your accusation is false your slaunders are foule and impudent This shall appeare by following your words as they be set downe where yée name those blasphemous abhominations which yée charge the booke withall in their seueral rankes Yée aske vs where we find in the new Testament our Romish fasts our Ember daies Saints éeues and Lent I am indéed out of all doubt and most assured that if a man read ouer not onely the new Testament but also both old and new from the very beginning to the end he shall neuer finde any allowance of Romish fasts I say likewise of the Booke of Common prayer that there be no Romish fasts in it and that yée doo most iniuriously slaunder and belie vs in matching our Church in this point with the blasphemous synagog of Rome For that Antichristian Church de rogating in all things from the Crosse of Christ hath vpon certaine daies and at certaine times times appointed an abstinence from meates placing therein the worship of God remission of sinnes and the merite of eternall life The Church of England dooth vtterly condemne this as the doctrine of Diuels 1. Timoth. 4 pronouncing them enimies to the crosse of Christ which maintaine meritorious fasting We teach that the kingdome of God is not meat and drinke but righteousnes and peace and ioy in the Holy-ghost Rom. 14. And that there is no holinesse in eating or not eating but an abstinence whereby we may humble our selues and be more feruent in prayer The politike lawes of this land which appoint that vpon certaine daies men shall not eat flesh doo it in respect of the common-wealth as to maintaine Nauigation so much the better by incouraging men to fish and for the spare of the bréed of yoong cattle appointing moreouer a penaltie for such as shall take the daies to be obserued as meritorious Romish fasts Therefore let all men héere at the first consider how sophistically yée doo argue that the Church of England dooth absteine from flesh vpon ember dayes Saints Eues and in Lent therefore the Church of England dooth maintaine and obserue Romish fasts Thus dooth one cracke of your great ordinance vanish onely into smoake Then yée say your idol feasts your Alhallowes Candlemas seuerall Lady dayes Saints dayes and dedicating Churches vnto Saints Héere also yée thunder out terror as if the Church of England did worship idols and celebrate feasts in the honour of false gods and yet all is but a starke lie and a wicked slander And I would wish all men to obserue the boldnesse and eloquence which yée haue in this vaine For whereas the synagog of Antichrist denying the onelye mediation of our blessed Lord Iesus did set vp the Saints as mediators did praye vnto them worship them celebrate holy dayes in their honour and dedicate churches vnto them the Church of England for these and such like abhominations hath separate her selfe from them teaching by the holye Scriptures that there is one God and one mediator betwéene God and man the man Iesus Christ That the same only true God is to be worshipped alone and called vppon through the only mediation of his beloued Sonne in whome he is well pleased That Saincts are not to be worshipped neyther the blessed Virgin nor any other nor no dayes to be celebrated in their honour nor Churches dedicated vnto thē how bitterly then do you sclaunder Ye will reply that the Saincts dayes be kept in our Church yea but ye must shewe that they be kept in their honour which ye shall not be able to doo séeing the contrary is manifest the Statute expressing that our Church doth call thē Holydayes not for the Saincts sakes but for the holy exercises
vsed vpon them in publike assemblyes Diuers Churches also among vs are called by the names of those Saincts which they were dedicated vnto but to say that we do therefore dedicate Churches vnto them is very ridiculous In the City Athens there was a place of Iudgement which bare the name of Mars S. Luke calleth it by the same name doth he therefore dedicate it also vnto that heathen God of battaile When we call S. Peters Church or Paules Churchyard it is but to distinguish them by the names by which they are commonly knowne and called Then follow our Comminations Rogations Purifications Touching Comminations they be a part of the Canonicall Scripture which is to be read in the Church Rogations I take to be the compassing in of the limits and bounds of Parishes which is commaunded only to auoide contention and strife that might growe and there is nothing in the booke of Common Prayer touching these that euer I could finde Purifications are annexed only to make vp your riming figure for neither the booke nor the doctrine of the Church of England doth speake of any Purification but only in the bloud of the Lambe There is a Thanksgiuing prescribed for Women after Childbirth but neyther for Iewish Purification or Popish Superstition therefore not in such sort to be condemned After comes in our Tithes Offerings Mortuaries For the Tithes and Mortuaries I do not finde them once named in the booke the Offrings in déede are But ye will say that is no great matter séeing they be in our Church That is true but yet they are but for maintenance of the Ministerie not as a matter tyed of necessitie vnto a Priesthoode as in the time of the Lawe and if they were the error could not be fundamentall In the next place are brought in our manner of visiting the sicke and howsling them with the Sacrament our Absolution blasphemous Dirges and Funerall Sermons ouer and for the dead There is prescribed a manner of visiting the sicke and so is there in the leiturgies of some other Churches that professe the Gospell but where haue ye séene it practised or the practise vrged by those that haue the gouernment of our Church at their hands which are able and diligent Pastors Whereby your iniurious dealing may appeare in charging all the assemblies as they generally stand in England with matters which the greater part do not practise nor yet are required For if the sicke man be by the Minister of the word instructed exhorted comforted and strengthened in faith and repentance yea euery way prepared to depart ioyfully in the Lord it is that which the booke aimeth at neither is there any more required although he vse no prescript forme set downe By your phrase of howsling with the Sacrament ye would make the simple beleeue that the Popish Howsling is retained among vs. This is but a false kind of packing seeing our Church vtterly condemneth all the wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrine of the Papists touching the Lords Supper and also denyeth that a man is of necessitie to receiue this Sacrament at his death If yes replie that howsoeuer we teach yet the booke implyeth a necessitie which appeareth by that it doth appoint a priuate Communion I answer that euen the booke doth denie it to be a matter of necessitie and doth appoint it but to relieue the trouble which might arise in weake consciences through the want thereof for these be the words of the booke The Curates shall diligently from time to time but specially in the Plague time exhort their Parishioners to the often receiuing in the Church of the holy Communion of the bodie and bloud of our Sauiour Christ which if they doo they shall haue no cause in their suddaine visitation to be disquieted for lacke of the same And if any sicke person that would receiue this Sacrament hath any impediment that he can not the Booke willeth the Minister to instruct him that if he do truly repent him of his sinnes and stedfastly beléeue that Iesus Christ hath suffered death vppon the Crosse for him and shead his bloud for his redemption earnestly remembring the benefites he hath thereby and giuing him hartie thanks therefore he doth eate and drincke the Bodie and Bloud of our Sauiour Christ profitably to his soules health although he do not receiue the Sacrament with his mouth How maliciously then do you charge the assemblies in England with howsling the sicke with the Sacrament when all the learned faithfull diligent Pastors do as the booke requireth exhort those that be of their flockes to the often receiuing of this holy Sacrament in the publike assemblie as the due place for publike seales and the people by instruction being growen so strong that they do not in their sicknesse require it and so in the most Congregations which are well taught the thing is not practise◠The Sinagog of Antichrist deuised a purgatorie which is blasphemous against the bloud of Christ They had indéed their Dirges euen blasphemous prayers for the dead That Purgatorie do we vtterly deny as a wicked inuention we condemne prayer for the dead and therfore where ye tearme those prayers which are read at burials blasphemous Dirges ouer and for the dead yee are more then impudent in lying Funerall Sermons I finde not inioyned by the booke nor commaunded by any Lawe Ye adde further our corrupt manner of administring the Sacraments the Font the Crosse in Baptisme Baptisme by women Gossippings the blasphemous Collects that we vse vnto this Sacrament Byshopings with all the hereticall Collects of the Booke which as ye say is a wearines vnto ye to repeate though not to vs both to tollerate and defend When ye shewe some reason why the Font is an abhomination I shall knowe what to say Touching the Crosse it must needes be confessed that it was blasphemously and horribly abused in Poperie they ascribing vnto it power to driue out and expell Deuils and worshipping it with deuine honour In my iudgement also the holy Church of God within short time after the blessed Apostles and the reuerend godly Pastors did offend in taking ouermuch libertie to ordeine Ceremonies Symbolicall as that and such like yet no doubt very reuerend godly learned men led by the example of those holy Fathers of olde haue iudged it lawfull for the Church to ordeine such Ceremonies Touching the Baptisme by women it is condemned both by the chéefe gouernours in our Church and others and is not practised vnlesse it be among the popish and supersticious ignorant sort By Gossyppings I suppose yée meane the witnesses at baptisme a thing vsed in the best reformed churches and thought to be expedient so that yée doo not heerein condemne the Church of England but all Churches Bishoping of children is little practised for vnlesse the people require it by offering their children few Bishops doo vrge them thervnto onely this excepted that they be taught and instructed in the Catechisme The
from the booke which also dooth instruct me the like may be said when the congregation dooth pray with their pastor they fetch not the cause of their sighing from him but are stirred vp by him Your next words stand thus The reasons why we disalow of read prayers in steed of spiritual prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatrie to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices either priuately or in the publike assemblies Yée are very angrie that I termed your reasons by which yée oppose read praier vnto spirituall praier spirituall fantasies But take you héed that they grow not to be worse Yée are also gréeued that I call them your stuffe but how good stuffe it is let the pure word try I said it is false doctrine to make read prayer serue only for meditation My proofe was this that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen and héere ye fling about as if ye had Béez For first ye exclaime that I make smal conscience to sclaunder ye because I said ye make read prayer serue only for meditation which is false doctrine Meditation as I take it comprehendeth all that is done in studying and musing when one readeth the praying is another If ye can shew a third vse when one readeth prayer I will confesse an error otherwise though ye haue not expressed the word only yet ye haue in effect vttered so much when ye say read prayer is not to be prayed Secondly ye charge me to deny that read prayer serueth for meditation at all which is in deede false doctrine because I said Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art c. Do I not say truly that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when yée pray say thus Our Father which art c. How can you then but like Spiders sucke that poyson from thence Thirdly ye accuse me that I make no difference betwéene our owne Leiturgies and the Canonicall Scripture which is a most friuolous cauill séeing our question is about reading of prayer whether it be Canonicall Scripture or framed from thence according to the rules of godly prayer Thus haue ye answered nothing at all vnto that commaundement which I alleaged giuen by our Sauiour to vse that prescript forme of prayer but only by shift and cauill Then ye goe about to proue that euery sinne against the first Table of the Lawe is Idolatry but with no shewe of reason And heere ye scoffe because I sayd if euery sinne that is against the first Table be Idolatry who shall be saued and ye demaund who is frée from Idolatry an absurd spéech for the Scripture doth not call the godly either murtherers théeues idolaters or such like I thought we had not reasoned about the reliques of sin which remaine in the best so long as they liue héere but of such grosse idolatry as a Church is to be condemned and forsaken which is defiled therewith But séeing ye confesse that all men be idolaters that is touching the remnants of sinne it must néedes followe that there is no Church frée from all spottes for if all the partes and members be defyled the whole can not be cleane This doth ouerthrowe all the arguments which yée bring to condemne the Church of England which haue no force vnlesse yée will maintaine a perfection for if a Church and euery member in it can not but of necessitie be spotted and defyled with some remnants of idolatrie euen by your owne confession then can ye not reason thus this is a fault it is idolatrie therefore this or that assemblie which is spotted is no true Church but to be forsaken But ye must stand to prooue that the idolatrie is so grosse that it destroyeth the faith ouerthroweth Gods true worship and so destroyeth the verie life béeing of a Church Thus much about your preface now follow your argumēts No apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblyes All read prayer is apocrypha Therefore no read prayer is to be brought into the publike assemblyes In my first answere I did deale only with the assumption or second part of this Argument affirming that I could not sée how it can be proued and shewing sundry absurdities that would follow as namely that a prayer of the Canonicall Scripture being read when one prayeth should become apocrypha c. But you replyed that those absurdities grow from my mistaking your words and I sawe it was so for our question being about the reading of prayer and not about the matter it selfe I tooke it that although yee hold the Lords prayer and other prayers in the holy Scripture to be Canonicall in themselues yet being read to become apocrypha because ye say all read prayer is apocrypha and did not expresse it with this restraint all read prayer framed by men is apocrypha I must now take the Argument as you say your meaning is and deale with both the parts thereof First then touching the proposition no apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblies what can be more false Apocrypha is opposed vnto Canonicall if nothing may be brought into the Church but the Canonicall Scriptures then the Sermons and prayers of the pastors and teachers are to be banished I knowe your meaning is not at all to exclude these although your words taking apocrypha as it is in vse among vs do in déede shut them foorth and not only them but any paraphrase vpon the Scripture as the Psalmes in Metre Now to your assumption which saith all read prayer is apocrypha first it is false touching the Psalmes and the Lords prayer which be Canonicall when they be prayed Then further I sée no fitnesse in applying the name apocrypha vnto our spéech to God though it be vsed for that which is not his vndoubted word to vs. For by what name opposite to apocrypha will ye call those prayers which ye do allow ye will not call them Canonicall this Argument therfore is false and friuolous Argum. 2. We must do nothing in the worship of God without warrant of his word Read prayers haue no warrant of his word Therfore read prayers are not to be vsed in the worship of God To this I answer at the first that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant of the word for read prayer whē there be sundry testimonies to warrant the same vnlesse ye will make a difference betwéene that which a man readeth vpon the booke that which he hath learned out of the booke Further I said I do not remember that euer I haue read in the holy Scriptures that God commandeth the prayer shall be read vpon the booke for he commendeth this diligēce in all his people that they should throughly learne to vnderstand not only the matters but also the sentences and phrases which his spirit
hath not the heart béene first mooued with the word of faith why may not the heart be mooued againe with hearing or reading the word and so vtter true praier the heart is mooued when one heareth the praier of the minister and presently sendeth forth praiers together with him Do ye imagine that the heart cannot both be mooued and pray at the same instant Is it not possible for one to pray in singing a Psalme Argu. 7. We must pray as necessitie requireth But stinted praiers cannot bee as necessitie requireth Therefore stinted prayers c. To this I answered approouing the proposition and in the assumption I did distinguish of matters to be praied for as that there be things necessarie to be praied for at all times and of all men of these a prescript forme may be vsed at all méetings of the Church There be matters not at all times néedfull to be praied for touching these there can be no prescript forme to be vsed continually yea some things fall out so rare that it were hard for as it is a fault to omit that which néedeth continually and of all men to be praied for so is it a grose babling to pray for things whereof there is no néed And if yée obserue the prescript praiers of all Churches yée shall find the regard of these two things that nothing necessary be omitted y t no praier be for such things as fall out sildome but they are limited to the time And further that which falleth out beside the prescript formes the ministers of the word are to supply And in the Church of England the Preachers are not limitted touching the matters of their praiers But if I meane by the things which be necessary to be prayed for at all times the Sacraments or any such thinges as Christ hath set foorth in his word wee should thinke our Sauiour Christ you say to haue forgotten himselfe that when he did commaund them to preach and baptize that he did not prescribe some forme of wordes for their praiers before their doctrine and Sacraments To this I aunswer I doo not holde that for the administration of the worde and Sacramentes it is of necessitie there should bee a forme of praier prescribed for the Minister may conceiue the prayers at the administration of the Sacraments as well as at the preaching of the worde But prescript forme is for conueniencie Neither am I of the minde that one precise forme is of necessitie Therefore yée reason verye fondlye in saying wee might thinke our Sauiour forgat himselfe that he did not prescribe a forme of wordes for their prayers before their doctrine and Sacramentes Your nexte wordes that then I must further saye that all things necessarye in the worship of GOD are not conteined in the Canonicall Scriptures and so euerye waye vpholde the Papists are euen as farre wide For all things necessarye and conuenient in Gods worshippe bee conteined in the Canonicall Scriptures But are you ignorant of this that there be many thinges conteyned in the Scriptures which are not in particular expressed but to bee gathered from the generall groundes and rules of doctrine What if one should obiect vnto yée there is no commaundement nor example of the Apostles in the scriptures for anye prayer to bee made at the Preaching of the worde and administration of Sacraments Therefore it is not conteined in the Scriptures that there should bee anye and so a thing not necessarye Would yée not flie to this that although it bee not expressed by anye commaundement that there should bee such prayers yet is it to bee gathered out of the doctrine conteined in the Scriptures How grosse are yée then in saying that this dooth vpholde the Papists But yée saye it were well I set downe what it is that may bee fitte at all times and for all persons to craue I maruaile anye should be so babling as to propound such a matter making doubt For can yée be ignorant that going through the whole Lords praier and opening the particulars there is no one petition but almost all branches of it are necessary to bee craued at all publike méetings and of all persons When will there bee a time and an assemblie in which it shall not bee fitte for all to make supplication that the name of the Lorde may bee sanctified that they may receiue the giftes and graces of the Holy-ghost to imbrace the true light of the Gospell to increase in knowlege faith and repentance to praye for Princes for the whole Church and for the ouerthrowe of Christes enimies to haue grace to obey and to walke worthy of the Gospell To craue all benefites for our necessary sustentation and the pardon of our sinnes with deliuerance from the deuill They bee all conteined in the Lordes praier but wee as children néede to haue them particularly expressed in that manner which may best helpe and guide vs. And touching praiers at the Sacraments they may verye well be the same séeing the thinges doo euer remaine the same which we are then to craue Vnlesse yée will maintaine that there bee thinges in administration of Sacraments at sometime to be prayed for and not at other Then so farre as prescript forme of prayer dooth fullye and fitlye expresse our néede it is no babling and so this your argument dooth not condemne it Read prayers were deuised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and an idol ministerie Therefore read praiers are not tollerable c. Antichrist deuised manye blasphemous wicked prayers But to say that the reading or following a prescript forme of praier was his deuice is most false for there were leiturgies in the Church of olde before Antichrist was set in his throne And moreouer the prescript formes deliuered in the scriptures to be vsed and which were vsed and practised by the Church shewe that the thing is allowed by God Yée say I haue confessed that I neuer read in the scriptures any warrant to reade praiers vnto God and then it must néedes follow that it is antichristian I say you know that yée doo falsifie my spéech For I said and haue prooued that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant in Gods word for prescript forme of praier But I doo not remember that euer I read in the scriptures that God dooth commaund a man to reade the praier vpon the booke My reason is rendered that God dooth commend such diligence in all his seruants as to haue in memorie c. Will ye gather thus it is not expressely commaunded therefore there is no warrant it is not expresly commaunded that euer I read that the Minister shal make praier before and after his sermon Will yée charge me héerevpon that I say there is no warrant for it in the word There would sundrye inconueniences growe for want of prescript forme of publike praiers I did onely mention this that euery frantike spirit of which sort there may bee some in the Ministrie will not onely
be vnlike themselues but vary from others You reply that the Papists haue not so weake reasons for their idolatrous leiturgies rubrikes and Canons It appeareth by all your arguments how méete men yée are to iudge of the waight and sufficiencie of reasons alledged by the Papists or others Ye say if it be but in phrases of spéech that they differ it is no sufficient cause to ordaine leiturgies I graunt that is true then yée say if it be in doctrine or conuersation the censures of the Church are to helpe that I confesse that the censures of the Church are to redresse such things But your reason yet hath two defaults The one that ye deuide differing in administration of Sacraments and publike praiers but into two members difference of phrases and difference of doctrine When as there be sundry other differences as in order and ceremonies which the Church is to haue regard of and not to leaue arbitrary Your experience in these matters is not so great as your boldnesse The other fault is that because the censures of the church should redresse defaultes therefore there néedeth no prescribed order It is a world to sée how many men talke of the Censures and gouernment of the Church which knowe not what it meaneth The Church hath this power to ordeine according to the word of God and to appoynt such Orders in matters of circumstance about publike prayer preaching of the word and administring of the Sacraments as shall most fitlie serue for edification And then these Orders béeing established by publike Authoritie the Discipline and Censures of the Church are to driue men to the obseruation of the same Who is able to imagin the innumerable diuisions and offences which would arise in the practise of your Anabaptisticall fréedome in which yee denye the Church to haue power to ordeyne and to impose any orders I would the Ministerie of England were better then it is If by tearming it a franticke Ministerie you meant but to speake against vnlearned and vngodlie men you should haue leaue for me but you comprehend all the learnedest and godly whiche you could not bée bolde to doo vnlesse yee were taken with a frensie séeing there bée many whome yée are neuer lyke in any measure of giftes and graces eyther for knowledge or Godlynesse to approch néere vnto Well now yée fall to your sober reasoning agayne Paule commaunded the Colossians to admonishe Archippus you would haue a Leiturgie for your Ministers not onely to tell them what they should doo to men but also to God himselfe this is your last reason and hauing before spent your strength it is as a weake childe of your olde age If yee had no better I would neuer haue set this last For I meruayle vnlesse yee did it to mocke to what ende yee shoulde bring it in Archippus was to bée admonished by the Colossians the Pastors are to bée admonished by theyr flockes therefore there ought to bée no prescript forme of publike prayer Or is your meaning that the Leiturgies goe too farre in telling the Ministers what they shall say not only to men but to God himselfe Then I aunswere that the Colossians were to admonish Archippus to looke to his whole dutie Set Archippus aside for he doth not strengthen but weaken your argument and take these words only which séeme to carrie a great absurditie namely that the Minister should be told by a Leiturgie what he is to speake both to God and men I aunswere that the Leiturgie is not to teach Ministers which otherwise can not tell what to say it is not to maintaine an idoll Ministerie But to auoyd those inconueniences which I haue before mentioned and such lyke you may sée in the reformed Churches they haue Leiturgies and yet all theyr Ministers are able and knowe what to speake both to God and men I propounded this question that if read prayers and imposed Leiturgies bée Idolatrie where shall wée fynde a visible Churche You aunswere that in this poynt they might erre of ignorance and yet be the true Church This is some fauour yet the Church came nowe vnto yee in a lucky houre but yee may continue thus gratious least the poore Churches of England craue the like at your hande Haue yee not set downe that to reade a prayer vppon the booke is to woorship hym with a woorship disagréeing from his nature haue yee not sayd it is the deuise of Antichrist a dead letter quenching the Spirit stinting the Spirit not of Faith Idolatrie a changing the worke of the Spirit into an Idoll a tradition and bondage breaking our libertie which Christ hath purchased for vs and therefore a thing most detestable Doo yee not denye that to bée the Church of Christ which hath any thing imposed and yet yee saye touching Leiturgies imposed vppon all Churches they might erre in this poynt of ignorance and yet bée a true Church Your spéeches doo condemne all the visible Churches in the worlde wherein yée bée rancke Donatists But you woulde hide this and make shewe as though yée condemned only the Churches of England But if read prayers and imposed Leiturgies bée such as you affyrme in those spéeches which I haue mentioned how could ignorance excuse them And why may not the Church of Englande bée excused by ignorance let the Reader héere obserue the pride of ignorant blinde Scismatikes which imagine they knowe more then all the Churches of God in the earth You take it that I vse the Popish Argument of vniuersalitie and Antiquitie and so wonder what I will say against the Papists traditions séeing I fight with their weapons agaynst the truth Nay if yée could sée your owne blindnesse it would make ye meruaile in déede I reason thus It is manifest by the word of God that there should bée a true visible Church in earth but if imposed Leiturgies be such as you make them that could not bée so there could bée no true Church in as much as all Churches that are and that haue béene for many hundred yeares haue had imposed Leiturgies The Papists doo drawe theyr Arguments of Antiquitie and Vniuersalitie not from the Scriptures as you may sée this reason that I alleadge is but against the Scriptures And nowe how truly yée conclude touching this question of read Prayer and prescript forme of Leiturgies let the Reader iudge and whether the Scriptures that I haue brought doo not ouerthrowe your fantasticall and Anabaptisticall errors There were ioyned with these Arguments against read Prayer two other the first is this The Prayers of such Ministers and people as stand vnder a false Gouernment are not acceptable not onely because they aske amisse but because they breake Gods commaundement The other is The Prayers of such as bée subiect to Antichrist are abhominable Those Ministers which haue no power with theyr people to receyue in and to cast out hauing come in by the windowe are Antichristian and subiect to Antichrist therefore the prayers of
the Pastour doth keepe backe some for ignorance c. Heere you confesse that very many Churches in England want godly Pastours and that there all are admitted and that he that admitteth them is the worste of the company Thus you make the most Chuches in England in a very bad estate and so farre foorth you affirme your article But yet you know some Churches c. I did confesse and doo still with gréefe that in very manye assemblies in England all are admitted to the Table of the Lord which offer themselues euen the most prophane and grosse sinners I shewed also the reason of this gréeuous offence namely that the ministers which should repell such open offenders are many times the worst or at least negligent in that behalfe And moreouer that the Church of England dooth neither approoue such admission of prophane men to the Sacrament nor yet suffer it in practise wholy For touching practise there be many congregations in the land where sundrie for ignorance and open wickednesse are by the ministers kept backe and not suffered to communicate vntill they shew repentance And for not approouing such admission I said the booke of Common prayer dooth prescribe and commaund the repelling of notorious wicked offendours and also that some are excommunicated iustly not admitted to publike praier This was the first part of mine answer wherein I prooue your accusation false The other is that the godly are not polluted by the companye of the wicked which are suffered to communicate with them in Gods worship and the thing not in their power to redresse And for example I alledged the Church of the Iewes By which I prooue that if your accusation were true yet it destroyeth not the Church Now let vs examine how you ouerthrowe this by your replye Yée aske whether there were no more prophane in the parish besides those twenty or thirty which are repelled And whether those other prophane were not admitted I answer If there were yet the repelling of twenty or thirty in a flock dooth shew that you accuse falsely when yée say all the prophane without exception of any one person are reteined in the body and bosome of our Church But to prooue your article at once as yée say by a more direct course yée bring an argument And yée demand if I know anye in all the realme of England vnbaptized Is not Baptisme say you a Sacrament belonging to the Church by which all the faithfull and their séed doo enter into it Wherevpon yée argue thus All being baptized it followeth that all are receiued into the body of your Church Now being once receiued in they can no way be cast out but by excommunication And it is manifest that the Parson and all his parish hath not the powre which Christ hath left vnto his Church to excommunicate any offender be he neuer so obstinate or notorious c. This being the onely reason by which ye stand to prooue the truth of your accusation I must bestow the more paines about it Thus it must be set in forme Where all are receiued in by Baptisme and no power to cast foorth any by excommunication there all the prophane multitudes are without exception of any one person receiued into reteined in the bosome and body of the Church But in the Church of England all are receiued in by Baptisme and there is no power to cast foorth any by excommunication Therefore in England all the prophane multitudes without exception of any one person are receiued into and reteined in the bosome and body of the Church In your proposition there are to be excepted such as are repelled from the Sacrament who are in some sort for the time remooued out of the bosome of the Church And also such Papists Heretikes and Scismatikes as depart out of themselues It is further also to be considered in it that all the baptized continuing outwardly obedient they cannot be iustly called the prophane multitudes Your presumption in which ye charge the Church of England with a principall transgression for receiuing in all by Baptisme and hauing no power to cast foorth any by Excommunication is with foule error and falsehood Touching the Baptisme of Infants this appeareth to be your iudgement that the children of prophane men which remayne in the Church and professe the faith of Christ belong not to the couenant and therefore ought not to be Baptised No doubt the Church doth offend when open notorious sinners are not Excommunicate and brought to repentance or at the least to such a shewe of repentance as that men can not further iudge them but as Brethren It is also an offence where such not being cast foorth their children are receyued vnto Baptisme and that without care to sée them brought vp and instructed in the Christian Religion and to leade a Godly life agréeable to the same But to say that the children of prophane men taking prophane men as you doo which professe Christianitie and remayne in the Church are not to be Baptised is a very wicked iniurie to Gods people and contrarie to the manifest doctrine of the holie Scriptures and can not without Heresie be mayntayned First touching prophane people it is certayne that all Heathen Heretikes all Scismatikes open contemners of the holie Religion and all obstinate wicked men whiche despise the censure of the Church that hath passed vppon them may be called prophane But you Brownists go further and condemne them all as Infidels and prophane which professe the faith of Christ because notwithstanding they doo it in some weakenes and infirmities which is a wicked presumption and intrusion into Gods seate and in which as I haue shewed before yée breake the rule of discipline giuen by our Sauiour Christ by which no brother that is none which professeth the true faith is for his sinnes and impenitencie to be iudged as heathen vntill he haue despised the admonition of the Church and so be cast foorth You take vppon yée to plucke vp all the Darnell yée are commaunded the contrarie least yée plucke vp the Wheate Math. 13. You dare and that in most sauage and desperate manner rend and teare vp the weake plants yée doo it vnto whole assemblyes in which there be many that vnfaynedly sorrow and mourne for their sinnes and studie to please God all that feare the Lord may tremble at this your intollerable wickednes But now to procéede Ye will not allowe the children of prophane men the Sacrament of Baptisme And what is your reason they bée not the séede of the faithfull In déede in this yée say true that none are in theyr infancie to be admitted to this Sacrament but the séede of the faithfull but when yée take it that the children whose next parents are hypocrites or wicked and prophane persons which yet remayne in the Church and professe Christ be not the séede of the faithfull at all and in any respect and so within the couenant and to be baptized
therefore the couenant is disanulled with them all I will therefore prooue that I haue said by strong arguments the first shall be this Whosoeuer maintaineth that where any grosse sinnes breake forth and appeare there is not any true faith in the parties which offend he doth contrary to the expresse word of God maintaine flat heresie for we are taught euery where that regeneration which consisteth in putting of the old man and putting on the new is by degrées wrought in Gods elect Whervpon the holy Ghost compareth the spirituall birth with the naturall A man is borne a poore weake babe not able to go alone or yet to stand vpright hee is nourished and fed with milke and so in continuance dooth growe vp by degrées vnto mans estate We are borne againe not of mortall but of immortall seed euen the word of God which indureth foreuer 1. Pet. 1. wherefore he willeth that laying aside all maliciousnes deceipt hypocrisie and such like we couet the sincere milke of the word that we may grow thereby 1. Pet. 2. ver 1. 2. The regenerate are in many places exhorted to put off and to mortifie euill and vncleane lusts to forsake their wicked sins Rom. 12. Ephes 4. Colos 3. Iam. 1. And if in many things we sinne all Iam. 4. Yea euē such as are grown vp in Christ to mans estate How many shall we then suppose are the falles of poore new borne Babes if Dauid Solomon Samson and many other replenished with great grace did fall gréeuously how shall we looke that other shall be frée Let the Church of Corinth be for an example in this point euen the teachers and people together vnto whom S. Paul writeth thus I could not speake vnto yee brethren as vnto spirituall men but as vnto carnall men as vnto babes in Christ I gaue yee milke to drinke and not meate for yee could not beare it neither can yee now for yee are yet carnall for when as there are among yee emulation contention and discords are yee not carnall and walke as men when one saith I am of Paul an other I am of Apollo are yee not carnall 1. Cor. 3. ver 1. 2. 3. 4. Is not the matter as cléere as the Sunne that he calleth them carnal burthened with the flesh and in that respect prophane as their open sinnes did declare and yet babes in Christ regenerate through faith and the déere children of God It is said of our Sauiour Hee will not breake the brused reed nor quench the smoaking Flax Math. 12. ver 20. Saint Paul following the steps of his Maister in care in loue in mercie and compassion toward the poore weake babes in Christ behaued himselfe in the Churches as a nursse vnto hir little infants 1. Thess 2. ver 8. But the fierce Brownists doo maintaine contrary to this manifest doctrine of the Scriptures that where corrupt manners breake foorth in those that professe the Gospell they be not onely vtterly voide of faith which offend but also that all they which worship together with them though neuer so much gréeued at their sinnes are fallen from the couenant most cruelly by this meanes thrusting downe all the weake and casting foorth all poore babes I may say the strong together with them therefore the Brownists doo maintaine heresye Euery faithfull man is to follow the example of blessed Paul in that which he dooth testifie of himselfe how he forgat the things which were behinde and pressed forward toward the things which were before euen towards perfection Phil. 3. ver 14. But yet it followeth in the same place neuerthelesse in that vnto which we are come let vs procéed by one rule to be like affected Shall the strong when all are to take the iourney together runne away and leaue the babes and the féeble behinde them nay rather let them leade them by the hand carie them in theyr armes and vpon their shoulders Let the Brownists alone who as if they were ayrie spirits disburthened of all lumpe of the flesh mount vp aloft and leaue poore heauie loden sinners crawling vppon the earth The other argument by which I prooue them to maintaine Heresie in this their second accusation is this Whosoeuer maketh the stablenesse of Gods couenant towards his people and with his Church to depend vppon the works of men he mayntayneth flat Heresie for albeit the words of the Couenant be these I will be your God and you shall be my people which implyeth a true sanctification required to glorifie God and to be thankfull yet the Couenant is wholly and altogether of mercie yea euen of the riches of his frée grace who hath promised and sworne vnto vs to declare the stablenesse of his counsell that we might haue strong consolation Hebrewes 6. vers 17. We are saued by grace and not by works Tit. 3. As the Couenant was made vnto Dauid in some particular so was it to Abraham and his séede in generall Then thus it is written I will make him my first borne higher then the Kings of the earth I will keepe my mercy for him for euer and my couenant with him shall be stable I will set his seed for euer and his throne as the daies of heauen If his children shall forsake my lawe and not walke in my iudgements If they shall prophane my Statutes and not obserue my commaundements I will visite their defection with the rod their iniquitie with plagues But I will not disanull my mercy towards him nor falsifie my faith I wil not prophane my couenāt nor alter the thing which is gone out of my lips I haue once sworne by my holines I wil not lie vnto Dauid Psal 89. v. 28. If the couenant made with Abraham and his séede did not stand after the same sort stablished vppon the frée promise of grace and vppon the oath of God how could it be said after all the defections and rebellions of the Churche of Israell reckoned vp and after hée had chastised them that hée remembred his couenant with them and he repented through the multitude of his compassions if it be sayd they repented and so returned agayne into couenant with him and obteyned mercie I answere they repent not but by his mercie and grace which he bestowed vpon them because they were within his couenant Now the Brownists in affirming that by open grosse sinne committed by any if they remayne still in the Church the couenant is not only disanulled to them but vnto all that doo communicate with them and so make the stablenesse of Gods couenant not to depend vpon mercie and frée grace promised and bound with an oth but vppon our works yea and in a more tickle estate euen vppon the woorkes of other whome we must iudge Therefore the Brownists mayntayne verie wicked heresie when they crye out that those assemblyes where any open sinners are not cast foorth they be no longer the true Church of God but the Couenant is disanulled with them
preaching of the word and now doth not the falt is in himselfe If the Brow do further reply that they be not true Christians which yet are moued by the preaching the motions are deceiptfull Then I wil frō that which they confesse shew that such people are truly faithfull For they confesse that they were blessed and holy Martyrs that suffred in the dayes of Quéene Mary and I say they were conuerted by the same ministerie which we haue now They had but the same motions at the preaching of Latimer Howper Taylor Bradford and others which our people haue nowe If the people at this day then féele the same effect in their soules at the preaching and Sacraments touching faith repentance and resolution to dye with ioy for the testimonie of the Lord if he shall require it let the Brownists and all other wicked Scismatikes barke that we haue no Ministerie we haue no Word we haue no Sacraments nor true Church yet the godly wise shall be able to discerne the voyce of Christ from the voyce of the Deuill and perceyue that the power of our Ministerie is not of the Deuill but of the holy Ghost whom they haue most wickedly reproched The fourth transgression The Brow THen for that their Churches are ruled by and remayne in subiection c. The fourth fault is in the subiection to an Antichristian gouernment If it were admitted that there is some yoake of Antichristian gouernmēt vnder which the poore Church may grone as it is her lot to be oppressed with outward bondage to be made to kéepe the Vineyard which is not her owne to be beaten of the watchmen to haue her vayle taken from her is she therefore no longer the Spouse of Christ The Brow But oh how farre are you from this which wincke with your eyes stoppe your eares and harden your hearts which can not endure so much as to heare of your fearefull estate which you see not no nor suffer your sores which you see to bee touched but seeke rather to cloake and hyde them both from God and man yea to mitigate tollerate and iustifye them Seeke you not heere to mitigate that heauie apparant Antichristian yoake your Churches stand vnder whereof heeretofore you haue complayned in Parliaments tearming it some yoake beeing now peraduenture through long custome growne lighter vnto you and more easye then Christs yoake at the least then Christs crosse c. To this fourth accusation my answere was very short for I did only propound this question whether it be no longer the Spouse of Christ which is oppressed and doth groane vnder some yoake of Antichristian gouernment and shewed my iudgement that it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage alleaging for proofe some what out of the Song of Solomon At this ye are striken with such wonderment that as men caried almost beside your selues you begin with a vehement exclamation and thrée things there are in my spéech which haue cast ye into this agonie the first that as you say our Churches stand vnder an apparant heauie yoke of Antichrist and I speake of the true Church oppressed with some yoke of Antichristian gouernment the second that I say it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage This ye tearme a blasphemous error because as ye say bondage is the badge of Antichrist the marke of the Beast whereby his souldiers are discerned frō the souldiers of Christ c. The third that I falsifie peruert the places of Scripture which I alleadge to prooue that Gods Church may be oppressed with some outward bondage where you will redéeme the places from such violence and corruption and giue such a glimse that simple men of vnderstanding shall discouer and search out the false dealing of such watchmen and the greatest clarke of vs all shal be taught héereafter how to abuse the scripture for a cloake to couer our sinnes O what valiant fellowes you be who shall be able to stand in your hands the greatest clarks in this land are but babes to such mighty gyants how shall I do then I must now defend my self in these particulars aboue named I will let the question about the heauy apparant yoake of Antichrist alone vnto the last place vnder which ye falsely charge our Church to stand and deale with that first which I set downe Where the first question is whether the true spouse of Christ may be vnder some yoake of Antichristian gouernment The second whether it be her lot to be oppressed with outward bondage The third whether those places by me alleadged be rightly applyed to proue the same I will not deale seuerally in these but in all together because they be all but one in effect Now to speake precisely and strictly the yoke of Antichrist is only spirituall inward where the faith conscience are burthened and be in subiection to receiue his lawes and worship This can not be borne without falling from the fréedome we haue in Christ But in a longer sense we call it Antichristian whē the pastors of the Church or any of them do vsurp more then they ought in external gouernment or tyrannously abuse the power committed into their hands This is that which I called some Antichristian yoke Now the very point of the question is whether the true spouse of Christ hath euer béen oppressed in this by any of her gouernours as her lot in some outward bondage I hold that she hath and for proofe I alleaged those sayings out of the Song against which you take exception as places wrested which shall be considered after other testimonies shewed Then I demaund of ye first whether it was not the spouse of Christ whom the Lord calleth Israell his shéepe and his flocke The pastors of Israell did not only scatter these but ruled ouer them and exercised dominion by violence tyranny Ezech. 34. v. 4. What say ye to this the Prophets prophesie lies the Priests exercise dominiō by their hand my people loue to haue it so Ier. 5. v. 31. Was there no true Church vnder this ruling of y e priests Pashur a chief priest in the temple stroke Ieremy the Prophet put him in the stockes Ierem. 20. ver 1. will yée affirme that there was no true Church then Come to the time in which our Sauiour liued vpon the earth for as yet the kingdome of God was not taken away from them which is threatned Matth. 22 but the high Préest with the other Préests with the Pharisies and Elders of the people had the Ecclesiasticall power which they tyrannously abused and by it oppressed the faithfull as appeareth in diuerse places of the Gospell and namely in Iohn 7. ver 13. and Iohn 9. ver 22. Diotrephes ambitiously abused the power of gouernment when he withstood S. Iohn as he testifieth in his third Epistle written vnto Gaius I wrote saith he vnto the Church but Diotrephes who loueth to haue
preheminence among them receiueth vs not Therefore if I come I will declare his deeds railing at vs with malitions words and not content therewith neither he himselfe receiueth not the brethren and them that would he forbiddeth casteth them out of the church ver 9. 10. Dooth S. Iohn tell the Christians that this tyrannous oppression by Diotrephes did make them to be no longer Christes Church which remained vnder him Did he will them to seperate themselues and not to obey him any longer in any thing Our Sauiour saith the time will come that they shall excommunicate yée Iohn 16. ver 2. Antichrist himselfe sitting in the Temple of God seduced the reprobate but could not destroy the Church which yet he did gréeuously oppresse and kéepe in some bondage Whereby it appeareth that Solomon speaketh of that which should fall out often and be euen as it were the lot of the Church to be iniuried oppressed and kept in some outward bondage euen by those at whose hands she should finde most comfort holding the places of Pastors and Gouernours as we haue séene in the Church of Israell before our Sauiour came at the time he liued and also in the Church vnder the Gospell You bring in diuerse scriptures which prooue as you imagine that an outward oppression of the Church in externall gouernment dooth make an vtter deuorse betwixt her and Christ but he that considereth those things which I haue before noted and the sundry oppressions of the Church by her Pastors shall easily perceiue that Anabaptisticall fréedome which yée glory of For howsoeuer the Church with her Children are frée with God and receiue no yoake vpon their faith and conscience yet in outward things they may be oppressed You could abide well enough that phrase of spéech oppressed but to say the Church of Christ may be in anye bondage yée terme a blasphemous error Because bondage yée say is the badge of Antichrist the marke of the Beast c. Take héede of the saying that is written 2. Pet. 2. ver 19. That the seducers promise libertie and are themselues the bend seruants of corruption For you imagine and glorye of such a full and perfect libertie as that yée account it a blasphemous error to say the Church may be oppressed with outward bondage It is strange that there should be such a bolde spirite in rotten flesh as flatly to contrary the spirit of God For the Lord sayd to Abraham Thy seede shall bee in bondage and they shall oppresse them But the nation whom they shall serue will I Iudge Genes 15. He saith he brought them out of the house of bondage or of bond men Exodus 20. Will ye affirme that the Church was not oppressed with outward bondage in Egypt will ye deny that they were led captiue and held in outward bondage in Babilon cannot this word bondage which the holy Ghost vseth be allowed of yée must bondage of necessity be the badge and marke of Antichrist when the Lord threatneth by his Prophets that his people should go into captiuity and that there should be a yoake of bondage layd vpon them dooth he giue them ouer to weare the badge of Antichrist or so to be seruants vnto men that they could not also be his seruants Indéed the Anabaptists do holde that wee cannot be seruants vnto men in any outward bondage yet be the seruants of Christ grounding their heresie vpō the places which you alledge If all maner of bondage be the marke of the beast and the badge of Antichrist and a loosing of Christian liberty as you and the Anabaptists would haue it then how could S. Paul say Art thou a bond man care not thou art the Lords free man 1. Cor. 7 Let no man suppose that I charge ye ouer hardly with this grosse point of Anabaptistrie because our question is about Church gouernment and I speake of ciuill bondage for ye speake generally of outward bondage and denie that it can be the lot of the Church or of any member therof The worde bondage though it be outward cannot in anye sense be allowed by you to agrée with your fréedom Now for the places in the song My mothers sonnes were angrye with me they set me to keepe the Vines mine owne Vine I haue not kept In this place the Church willeth first y t they should not looke scornefully vpon her because she is somwhat blacke Then she sheweth that it is not her natiue colour but she is sunne burnt the sunne saith she hath looked vpon me There followeth the occasion that her mothers sonnes were angrye with her set her to kéepe the Vines Who these be whome she calleth her mothers sonnes is the greatest difficultie to finde Tremellius whose interpretation in that point ye follow doth expound it of originall sinne the lusts which she hath frō the wombe other take it more fitly of false brethrē which boast thēselues to be true worshipers children of the church which she calleth her mothers sonnes because they descended frō the ancient mother church were the degenerate children of holy forefathers for I take it somwhat hard to cal sins or concupiscences her mothers sons But take it whether way ye wil either of original sin concupiscences or of degenerate children among whom there were many euen of the Pastors gouernors yet ye cannot auoid but y t there is a violence an oppression some bondage for she saith they set her to kéep the vineyards Howsoeuer you would slily insinuate that it were but negligence that when she repenteth she is so cléered that she is in no bondage vnto sinne at all But when ye haue cauilled what ye can it standeth cléere by the scriptures y t the Church in her perfectest repentance euen with all her children is held in some spirituall bondage vnto sin but yet she is not obstinat I grant for she hateth the euil she doth laboureth against it I doe not gather from this that the Church either did or may kéepe Antichrists Vine as you demaund what a bolde falsifiyng of the place this is But I saye what a bolde impudencie is this in you so to falsifie my wordes For I alledge it to prooue that the Church is subiect to bee oppressed bable so much of Antichrist and his yoake Then let hym prooue that euery error abuse and great fault in discipline doth ouerturne it and make it become Antichristian yea Antichrists yoake so farre as to make it no Church which is subiect to such oppression It is most cléere that a Church may erre in sundrie poynts of Doctrine and not be Antichristian but the true Spouse of Christ And an error in Doctrine if it be foule doth approch néerer towards the ouerthrowe of faith then an error or an abuse in externall gouernment Moreouer if the execution of discipline by Byshops be the yoake of Antichrist and if all the Churches which doo stande vnder the same doo worship the Beast