general_n council_n as_o be_v the_o parliament_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n to_o which_o he_o have_v promise_v his_o special_a assistance_n but_o this_o be_v by_o the_o way_n 3._o now_o out_o of_o this_o authority_n which_o you_o grant_v to_o those_o ancient_a counsel_n i_o go_v a_o little_a far_o with_o you_o and_o ask_v what_o you_o can_v say_v more_o against_o the_o present_a church_n and_o present_a council_n of_o trent_n then_o against_o the_o church_n of_o that_o time_n &_o counsel_n of_o those_o time_n whatsoever_o you_o can_v say_v of_o the_o church_n now_o that_o it_o may_v err_v may_v as_o well_o be_v say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o that_o tyme._n for_o our_o sauiour_n promise_n for_o the_o perpetuity_n &_o infallibility_n thereof_o be_v as_o much_o for_o one_o time_n as_o another_o for_o our_o time_n now_o as_o for_o those_o then_o what_o you_o say_v now_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n that_o it_o be_v disclaim_v by_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n 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not_o write_v which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v know_v by_o some_o in_o the_o church_n though_o not_o by_o all_o now_o for_o the_o curse_n which_o you_o be_v content_a shall_v light_v upon_o you_o if_o we_o show_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n to_o have_v be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n for_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ_n be_v not_o too_o forward_o to_o draw_v malediction_n upon_o yourself_o it_o will_v come_v fast_o enough_o to_o your_o cost_n it_o be_v a_o heavy_a thing_n than_o you_o be_v aware_a of_o to_o have_v the_o curse_n of_o a_o mother_n and_o such_o a_o mother_n as_o the_o church_n which_o do_v not_o curse_v without_o cause_n nor_o out_o of_o passion_n for_o as_o the_o scripture_n say_v maledictio_fw-la matris_fw-la eradicat_fw-la fundamenta_fw-la 3.11_o eccle._n 3.11_o the_o malediction_n of_o a_o mother_n do_v root_n out_o the_o foundation_n 4._o have_v thus_o praeface_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o come_v near_o to_o the_o matter_n give_v we_o a_o new_a definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v a_o seal_n witness_v to_o our_o conscience_n that_o god_n promise_n be_v true_a for_o as_o you_o say_v god_n by_o his_o word_n declare_v his_o mercy_n and_o seal_v and_o assure_v it_o by_o his_o sacrament_n and_o in_o the_o word_n we_o hear_v his_o promise_n in_o the_o sacrament_n we_o see_v they_o out_o of_o which_o you_o infer_v baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o be_v proper_a sacrament_n because_o in_o they_o the_o element_n be_v join_v to_o the_o word_n and_o they_o take_v their_o ordinance_n from_o christ_n &_o be_v visible_a sign_n of_o a_o invisible_a save_a grace_n in_o which_o word_n be_v contain_v another_o far_o different_a definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n have_v no_o manner_n of_o connexion_n or_o dependence_n upon_o the_o former_a out_o of_o which_o again_o you_o infer_v that_o the_o other_o 5._o beside_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n be_v no_o sacrement_n not_o confirmation_n because_o it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n not_o pennance_n &_o order_n because_o they_o have_v no_o outward_a element_n not_o matrimony_n because_o it_o be_v before_o christ_n time_n and_o be_v common_a to_o turk_n and_o infidel_n neither_o do_v you_o see_v forsooth_o how_o it_o can_v be_v a_o holy_a thing_n and_o yet_o forbid_v as_o it_o be_v to_o priest_n and_o from_o this_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o if_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o council_n take_v place_n than_o woe_n to_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o who_o you_o name_v these_o follow_v ambrose_n austin_n chrysostome_n bede_n isidore_n alexander_n of_o hales_n cyprian_n durand_n and_o bessarion_n this_o be_v your_o discourse_n 5._o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o your_o formet_fw-la definition_n it_o be_v a_o senseless_a one_o without_o ground_n in_o any_o father_n 16._o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr sâ—tâ—r_n in_o gen_fw-la cap._n 14._o &_o 16._o or_o other_o author_n but_o only_a kemnitius_n and_o caluin_n and_o which_o be_v large_o refute_v and_o prove_v most_o absurd_a by_o bellarmine_n to_o who_o i_o remit_v you_o for_o how_o can_v the_o sacrament_n be_v seal_n or_o give_v we_o aâ—â—urance_n of_o his_o word_n when_o all_o the_o assurance_n we_o have_v of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v his_o word_n this_o be_v idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la beside_o what_o promise_n be_v these_o that_o be_v seal_v or_o if_o they_o be_v seal_n what_o need_v we_o more_o seal_n or_o sacrament_n than_o one_o or_o if_o there_o may_v be_v more_o why_o not_o seven_o as_o well_o as_o two_o again_o how_o do_v we_o see_v the_o promise_n of_o god_n in_o the_o sacrament_n when_o a_o man_n have_v receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n what_o other_o assurance_n have_v he_o that_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v or_o that_o he_o be_v the_o child_n of_o god_n and_o heir_n of_o his_o kingdom_n than_o the_o word_n of_o god_n promise_v that_o virtue_n to_o the_o sacrament_n or_o how_o can_v any_o man_n see_v by_o the_o sacrament_n that_o he_o be_v so_o these_o be_v but_o foolish_a fancy_n breed_v in_o haeretical_a brain_n and_o so_o to_o be_v contemn_v for_o your_o other_o definition_n it_o be_v not_o much_o better_a be_v melancthons_n supra_fw-la vbi_fw-la supra_fw-la relate_v and_o refute_v by_o bellarm._n which_o therefore_o i_o leave_v and_o answer_v only_o that_o which_o you_o say_v that_o two_o sacrament_n have_v the_o word_n and_o element_n and_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n the_o other_o 5._o not_o for_o confirmation_n and_o extreme_a unction_n you_o can_v deny_v the_o element_n and_o word_n to_o wit_n oil_n and_o the_o form_n but_o you_o deny_v the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n for_o proof_n of_o which_o and_o other_o particular_n it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o to_o stand_v upon_o it_o
section_n so_o be_v you_o not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o safe_a in_o this_o wherein_o notwitstanding_o we_o must_v hear_v a_o little_a what_o you_o say_v and_o first_o i_o wonder_v you_o talk_v still_o so_o much_o of_o prove_v the_o safety_n and_o comfort_n of_o your_o faith_n out_o of_o our_o author_n when_o you_o can_v name_v that_o man_n that_o say_v any_o such_o word_n for_o suppose_v you_o find_v one_o author_n or_o two_o of_o we_o that_o say_v something_o different_a from_o the_o common_a opinion_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a point_n of_o doctrine_n do_v he_o present_o say_v the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v safe_a for_o example_n one_o say_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n of_o itself_o give_v more_o gtace_n do_v he_o therefore_o say_v your_o faith_n be_v safe_a noe_o very_o but_o the_o same_o man_n do_v condemn_v your_o doctrine_n for_o most_o unsafe_a and_o dangerous_a and_o lead_v to_o the_o very_a pit_n of_o hell_n for_o even_o those_o thing_n which_o of_o themselves_o 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therewith_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o church_n for_o exposition_n of_o the_o same_o though_o it_o shall_v be_v but_o humane_a how_o do_v that_o diminish_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n or_o make_v it_o less_o safe_a a_o man_n in_o his_o right_a wit_n will_v think_v it_o will_v rather_o help_v then_o hinder_v but_o what_o if_o this_o authority_n be_v more_o than_o humane_a as_o indeed_o it_o be_v be_v we_o not_o then_o much_o more_o safe_a i_o say_v nothing_o of_o unwritten_a tradition_n which_o come_v not_o short_a for_o authority_n even_o of_o the_o write_a word_n itself_o and_o which_o in_o two_o resspect_n seem_v even_o to_o surpass_v it_o one_o respect_n be_v that_o tradition_n extend_v themselves_o to_o more_o thing_n than_o the_o write_a word_n and_o even_o to_o the_o authorise_a &_o expound_v of_o the_o same_o for_o by_o tradition_n we_o receive_v both_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n &_o understand_v the_o sense_n thereof_o the_o other_o that_o they_o be_v less_o subject_n to_o the_o cut_a knife_n of_o haeretique_n which_o make_v they_o so_o mad_a at_o they_o for_o they_o can_v so_o corrupt_v they_o by_o put_v in_o and_o out_o at_o their_o pleasure_n as_o they_o can_v do_v the_o write_a word_n and_o this_o indeed_o seem_v the_o safe_a way_n in_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n his_o day_n for_o he_o be_v desirous_a to_o learn_v how_o he_o may_v discern_v catholic_a truth_n from_o haeretical_a falsehood_n receive_v this_o answer_n from_o every_o body_n as_o he_o say_v that_o if_o he_o will_v avoid_v the_o deceit_n and_o snare_n of_o haeretique_n and_o remain_v sound_a in_o faith_n he_o shall_v strengthen_v his_o faith_n two_o way_n to_o wit_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o divine_a law_n and_o then_o by_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n whereby_o you_o see_v the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n concern_v your_o safety_n and_o we_o 3._o again_o you_o say_v it_o be_v safe_a to_o adore_v christ_n sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o his_o father_n then_o to_o adore_v the_o sacramental_a bread_n i_o ask_v how_o you_o prove_v it_o for_o say_v i_o again_o it_o be_v as_o dangerous_a to_o deny_v adoration_n to_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o to_o christ_n in_o heaven_n for_o he_o be_v as_o sure_o in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o in_o heaven_n the_o same_o catholic_a faith_n teach_v we_o both_o veritye_n and_o to_o make_v you_o study_v a_o little_a i_o may_v say_v in_o some_o sort_n more_o sure_a for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v be_v contentious_a may_v deny_v christ_n to_o sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o his_o father_n because_o his_o father_n have_v neither_o right_a nor_o left_a hand_n wherein_o for_o answer_v you_o must_v fall_v to_o expound_v the_o scripture_n and_o declare_v the_o meaning_n of_o that_o article_n which_o say_v it_o and_o therein_o you_o shall_v find_v as_o much_o to_o do_v as_o we_o do_v in_o expound_v the_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la beside_o do_v not_o we_o adore_v he_o in_o heaven_n too_o as_o well_o as_o you_o how_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a than_o we_o yea_o but_o you_o will_v say_v that_o we_o adore_v he_o on_o the_o altar_n too_o it_o be_v true_a we_o do_v indeed_o and_o to_o suppose_v it_o doubtful_a for_o the_o present_a whether_o he_o be_v there_o or_o no_o i_o ask_v wherein_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a than_o we_o if_o he_o be_v not_o there_o we_o be_v in_o danger_n of_o adore_v he_o where_o he_o be_v not_o if_o he_o be_v there_o then_o be_v you_o in_o danger_n by_o not_o adore_v he_o where_o he_o be_v and_o it_o be_v as_o much_o danger_n not_o to_o adore_v he_o there_o if_o he_o be_v there_o as_o not_o to_o adore_v he_o in_o heaven_n wherein_o i_o say_v then_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a though_o there_o be_v no_o more_o certainty_n of_o belief_n on_o our_o side_n then_o you_o 4._o three_o you_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n it_o be_v more_o safe_a to_o trust_v whole_o in_o god_n then_o partly_o in_o god_n partly_o in_o ourselves_o so_o we_o say_v also_o and_o so_o we_o do_v wherein_o then_o be_v you_o more_o or_o we_o less_o safe_a you_o say_v we_o trust_v in_o our_o good_a work_n it_o be_v true_a thus_o far_o that_o we_o teach_v that_o man_n by_o good_a work_n may_v cooperate_v to_o justification_n merit_v grace_n and_o glory_n but_o that_o be_v but_o conditional_o if_o a_o man_n do_v such_o good_a work_n but_o yet_o we_o be_v far_o from_o nourish_v your_o confidence_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o which_o be_v not_o ground_v so_o much_o in_o that_o general_a principle_n of_o good_a work_n as_o in_o the_o particular_a that_o i_o for_o example_n do_v these_o and_o these_o good_a work_n wherefore_o i_o say_v it_o be_v false_a in_o your_o sense_n for_o we_o do_v not_o teach_v any_o man_n to_o persuade_v himself_o that_o he_o be_v just_a and_o holy_a but_o teach_v he_o to_o fear_n and_o doubt_v himself_o continual_o and_o in_o all_o his_o work_n according_a to_o the_o example_n of_o job._n verebar_fw-la omne_fw-la opera_fw-la mea_fw-la i_o do_v fear_v all_o my_o work_n and_o if_o a_o man_n do_v good_a work_n we_o teach_v that_o he_o can_v be_v sure_a that_o they_o be_v good_a as_o they_o be_v do_v by_o he_o that_o be_v that_o he_o do_v they_o with_o such_o a_o right_a intention_n and_o by_o help_n of_o supernatural_a grace_n and_o that_o therefore_o no_o man_n can_v be_v sure_a of_o his_o own_o justification_n according_a to_o that_o alsoe_o of_o job._n 9.28_o job_n 9.28_o etsi_fw-la fuero_fw-la simplex_fw-la hoc_fw-la ipsum_fw-la ignorabit_fw-la anima_fw-la mea_fw-la although_o i_o shall_v be_v simple_a that_o be_v good_a the_o self_n same_o shall_v my_o soul_n be_v ignorant_a of_o 9.21_o job_n 9.21_o again_o we_o say_v
to_o name_v that_o father_n or_o catholic_a doctor_n to_o who_o judgement_n we_o will_v not_o stand_v for_o trial_n of_o the_o controversy_n between_o you_o and_o we_o and_o if_o he_o be_v for_o you_o in_o one_o i_o will_v undertake_v he_o shall_v be_v against_o you_o in_o 5._o or_o 10._o other_o for_o that_o one_o with_o what_o face_n then_o can_v you_o say_v we_o decline_v they_o but_o because_o i_o imagine_v you_o reflect_v most_o in_o this_o say_n upon_o this_o worthy_a work_n of_o your_o own_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n whether_o i_o have_v so_o decline_v one_o author_n either_o modern_a or_o ancient_a or_o whether_o i_o have_v not_o show_v every_o one_o which_o you_o have_v bring_v to_o be_v quite_o against_o you_o now_o for_o the_o scripture_n because_o you_o say_v we_o decline_v it_o as_o unperfect_a i_o challenge_v you_o to_o name_v the_o man_n that_o say_v it_o be_v unperfect_a &_o for_o that_o reason_n decline_v it_o you_o father_v indeed_o that_o term_n upon_o lessius_fw-la but_o i_o show_v it_o to_o be_v most_o false_a for_o that_o he_o have_v not_o the_o word_n at_o all_o in_o that_o chapter_n much_o less_o do_v he_o say_v it_o of_o scripture_n and_o less_o again_o do_v he_o decline_v the_o trial_n thereof_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o imperfection_n but_o only_o in_o regard_n that_o it_o be_v a_o write_a word_n no_o haeretique_n can_v be_v convince_v by_o it_o as_o i_o show_v also_o even_o now_o out_o of_o tertullian_n who_o say_v it_o be_v but_o lose_a labour_n to_o dispute_v with_o a_o haeretique_n out_o of_o scripture_n but_o because_o i_o see_v your_o drift_n in_o the_o often_o repetition_n of_o the_o word_n imperfect_a be_v only_o to_o beget_v in_o man_n mind_n a_o hard_a conceit_n of_o we_o â—_o de_fw-fr prâ—â—_n cap._n â—_o as_o if_o we_o make_v small_a account_n of_o scripture_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n with_o such_o care_n for_o so_o many_o age_n who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v translate_v commentend_v and_o expound_v they_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v make_v so_o many_o decree_n in_o particular_a and_o general_a counsel_n for_o the_o preservation_n authority_n reverence_n and_o due_a use_n of_o they_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v fill_v library_n with_o learned_a work_n not_o only_o expound_v the_o particular_a passage_n but_o frequent_o and_o large_o declare_v their_o necessity_n dignity_n utility_n and_o other_o perfection_n â—p_n veu_n b._n 2_o â—p_n sr._n â—p_n let_v any_o man_n by_o these_o effect_n judge_v who_o reverence_v they_o most_o catholic_n or_o protestant_n let_v he_o compare_v the_o labour_n of_o the_o one_o with_o the_o labour_n of_o the_o other_o and_o then_o he_o shall_v soon_o find_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o matter_n 8._o but_o because_o you_o still_o talk_v of_o our_o decline_a of_o scripture_n beside_o that_o it_o be_v false_a as_o i_o say_v before_o for_o we_o be_v content_a to_o admit_v any_o kind_n of_o trial_n with_o you_o to_o take_v that_o alsoe_o out_o of_o your_o mouth_n i_o answer_v you_o far_o that_o in_o this_o we_o condescend_v more_o unto_o your_o infirmity_n be_v willing_a to_o try_v all_o way_n to_o gain_v you_o than_o we_o need_v or_o you_o can_v of_o right_a challenge_n for_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o say_n of_o tertullian_n most_o true_a whereby_o he_o as_o it_o be_v stop_v this_o gap_n against_o you_o hunc_fw-la igitur_fw-la potissimum_fw-la gradum_fw-la obstruimus_fw-la non_fw-la admittendos_fw-la eos_fw-la ad_fw-la ullam_fw-la de_fw-la scripture_n disputationem_fw-la sihae_fw-la sunt_fw-la vires_fw-la eorum_fw-la arm_n eas_fw-la habere_fw-la possint_fw-la dispici_fw-la debet_fw-la cvi_fw-la competat_fw-la possessio_fw-la scripturarum_fw-la ne_fw-la be_v admittatur_fw-la ad_fw-la eas_fw-la cvi_fw-la nullo_n modo_fw-la competit_fw-la we_o stop_n up_o this_o entrance_n chief_o that_o they_o that_o be_v haeretique_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o disputation_n of_o scripture_n if_o in_o these_o their_o force_n consist_v we_o must_v see_v whether_o they_o may_v have_v they_o to_o who_o the_o possession_n belong_v lest_o he_o be_v admit_v thereunto_o to_o who_o it_o in_o no_o wise_n belong_v as_o also_o that_o other_o place_n wherein_o conformable_o to_o the_o question_n which_o here_o he_o make_v this_o be_v a_o important_a point_n he_o define_v 37._o de_fw-fr praesc_fw-la cap._n 15._o &_o 37._o non_fw-la esse_fw-la admittendos_fw-la haereticos_fw-la ad_fw-la incundam_fw-la de_fw-la scripture_n provocationem_fw-la quos_fw-la sine_fw-la scripture_n probamus_fw-la ad_fw-la scripturas_fw-la non_fw-la pertinere_fw-la that_o haeretique_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o challenge_n of_o scripture_n who_o without_o scripture_n we_o prove_v not_o to_o pertain_v to_o scripture_n that_o be_v not_o to_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o they_o for_o say_v he_o if_o they_o be_v haeretique_n they_o can_v be_v christian_n and_o not_o be_v christian_n they_o can_v have_v no_o right_a to_o christian_a writing_n wherefore_o sir_n humphrey_n while_o you_o stand_v brag_v of_o scripture_n and_o chaleng_v we_o we_o may_v say_v unto_o you_o as_o the_o same_o tertullian_n say_v consequent_o in_o the_o same_o place_n qui_fw-la estis_fw-la quando_fw-la &_o unde_fw-la venistis_fw-la quid_fw-la in_o meo_fw-la agitis_fw-la non_fw-la mei_fw-la quo_fw-la denique_fw-la martion_n jure_fw-la siluam_fw-la meam_fw-la caedis_fw-la etc._n etc._n who_o be_v you_o when_o and_o whence_o have_v you_o come_v what_o do_v you_o in_o my_o ground_n you_o that_o be_v not_o i_o by_o what_o right_a o_o martion_n do_v thou_o fall_v my_o wood_n by_o what_o leave_n o_o valentine_n do_v thou_o turn_v my_o fountain_n by_o what_o authority_n o_o apelles_n do_v thou_o remove_v my_o bound_n it_o be_v my_o possession_n what_o do_v you_o other_o here_o sow_v and_o feed_v at_o your_o pleasure_n it_o be_v my_o possession_n i_o possess_v it_o of_o old_a i_o possess_v it_o first_o i_o have_v the_o original_n from_o the_o owner_n who_o the_o thing_n be_v i_o be_o the_o heir_n of_o the_o apostle_n as_o they_o have_v bequeath_v unto_o i_o by_o will_n as_o they_o have_v commit_v to_o my_o custody_n as_o they_o have_v adiur_v i_o so_o i_o hold_v for_o you_o true_o they_o have_v ever_o disinherited_a you_o and_o cast_v you_o of_o as_o stranger_n and_o enemy_n this_o be_v tertullian_n discourse_n and_o word_n wherein_o it_o be_v but_o change_v the_o name_n martion_n valentine_n and_o apelles_n into_o luther_n caluin_n beza_n or_o if_o you_o will_v into_o sir_n hum._n line_v and_o it_o will_v fit_a as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o be_v make_v for_o you_o or_o speak_v in_o answer_n of_o what_o you_o say_v here_o that_o if_o you_o bring_v scripture_n we_o decline_v it_o for_o hereby_o you_o may_v see_v how_o much_o you_o be_v mistake_v we_o do_v not_o decline_v it_o but_o we_o decline_v you_o from_o it_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v none_o of_o you_o you_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o it_o the_o scripture_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o church_n by_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v keep_v they_o be_v the_o church_n evidence_n therefore_o no_o man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n as_o you_o be_v have_v to_o do_v with_o they_o as_o tertullian_n tell_v you_o here_o 6._o ep_v dedic_fw-la n._n 6._o and_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o my_o dedicatory_a epistle_n out_o of_o another_o place_n of_o he_o that_o we_o must_v first_o seek_v out_o where_o that_o faith_n be_v to_o which_o the_o scripture_n belong_v where_o the_o man_n to_o who_o christian_n discipline_n be_v deliver_v you_o must_v first_o show_v yourselves_o to_o be_v these_o man_n to_o have_v this_o faith_n before_o we_o can_v admit_v you_o to_o the_o scripture_n you_o must_v first_o show_v yourselves_o owner_n of_o the_o land_n before_o you_o can_v claim_v the_o writing_n and_o evidence_n which_o belong_v unto_o it_o and_o which_o make_v good_a the_o title_n therefore_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o can_v less_o admire_v your_o impudence_n in_o this_o which_o you_o say_v of_o scripture_n then_o in_o any_o thing_n else_o which_o in_o all_o this_o lindy_n treatise_n you_o have_v say_v though_o indeed_o as_o you_o go_v draw_v towards_o a_o end_n you_o show_v you_o self_n still_o more_o like_o yourself_o in_o this_o kind_n as_o shall_v appear_v by_o the_o follow_a section_n 15._o chap._n 15._o of_o the_o 15._o sect._n the_o title_n be_v this_o our_o chief_a adversary_n cardinal_n bellarmine_n testify_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n in_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o controversy_n betwixt_o us._n chapter_n xv._o 1._o in_o this_o section_n your_o drift_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o doctrine_n out_o of_o bellar._n who_o you_o say_v be_v enforce_v to_o confess_v the_o antiquity_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n and_o plain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o
the_o word_n the_o presence_n of_o christ_n depend_v upon_o their_o efficacy_n which_o they_o have_v by_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n as_o they_o be_v the_o form_n of_o this_o sacrament_n which_o may_v be_v separate_v from_o the_o signification_n though_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la it_o be_v not_o 1._o caiet_fw-mi in_o come_v 3._o p._n q._n 75._o a._n 1._o and_o so_o cajetan_v though_o he_o think_v not_o the_o bare_a signification_n of_o the_o word_n without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o presence_n of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n yet_o he_o doubt_v not_o to_o affirm_v with_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n allege_v the_o very_a word_n thereof_o quod_fw-la ipsorum_fw-la verborum_fw-la virtute_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o substantia_fw-la vini_fw-la in_o sanguinem_fw-la convertuntur_fw-la that_o by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o very_a word_n the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o wine_n into_o his_o blood_n so_o as_o caietan_n be_v nothing_o for_o you_o but_o very_o much_o against_o you_o 14._o but_o yet_o you_o go_v on_o confident_o tell_v we_o that_o you_o will_v produce_v cardinal_n bishop_n and_o schoolman_n to_o testify_v that_o there_o be_v no_o word_n in_o scripture_n to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n second_o that_o those_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v not_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o sacrament_n three_o that_o the_o ancient_a father_n do_v not_o believe_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o sacramental_a bread_n to_o be_v convert_v into_o christ_n real_a flesh_n four_o that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o believe_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la above_o 1000_o year_n after_o christ_n which_o four_o point_n how_o well_o you_o prove_v i_o must_v now_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n first_o note_v by_o the_o way_n that_o though_o you_o set_v they_o down_o several_o as_o if_o you_o mean_v to_o prove_v they_o in_o order_n one_o after_o another_o bring_v one_o cardinal_n one_o bishop_n and_o one_o schooleman_n at_o least_o for_o every_o one_o yet_o you_o neither_o observe_v order_n nor_o so_o allege_v author_n as_o shall_v appear_v though_o for_o the_o first_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n you_o need_v not_o many_o author_n if_o you_o add_v the_o word_n express_o thus_o that_o there_o be_v no_o word_n in_o scripture_n to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n express_o which_o word_n if_o you_o put_v in_o your_o proposition_n may_v pass_v for_o true_a if_o not_o it_o be_v false_a and_o without_o author_n for_o though_o all_o catholic_n save_v only_a caietan_n agree_v that_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n of_o themselves_o prove_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n presence_n yet_o all_o do_v not_o so_o agree_v that_o of_o themselves_o they_o prove_v transubstantiation_n for_o some_o think_v they_o may_v be_v verify_v though_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n shall_v remain_v together_o with_o christ_n body_n yet_o all_o agree_v that_o out_o of_o the_o word_n as_o they_o be_v understand_v by_o the_o church_n transubstantiation_n be_v also_o prove_v you_o may_v therefore_o have_v spare_v gabriel_n authority_n which_o you_o begin_v with_o in_o these_o word_n how_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o express_v in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o bible_n which_o i_o will_v have_v spare_v also_o but_o because_o i_o mean_v to_o lay_v open_a your_o falsehood_n in_o allege_v the_o same_o by_o half_n 40._o cab._n lect_n 40._o for_o thus_o he_o say_v notandum_fw-la quod_fw-la quamuis_fw-la express_v tradatur_fw-la in_o scriptura_fw-la quod_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la veraciter_fw-la sub_fw-la speciebus_fw-la panis_fw-la continetur_fw-la &_o a_o fidelibus_fw-la sumitur_fw-la tamen_fw-la quomodo_fw-la sit_fw-la ibi_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la a_o per_fw-la conversionem_fw-la alicuius_fw-la in_o ipsum_fw-la a_o sine_fw-la conversione_n incipiat_fw-la esse_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la cum_fw-la pane_fw-la manentibus_fw-la substantia_fw-la &_o accidentibus_fw-la panis_fw-la non_fw-la invenitur_fw-la it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o though_o it_o be_v express_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v true_o contain_v under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o receive_v by_o the_o faithful_a yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o express_v how_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v there_o whither_o by_o conversion_n of_o any_o thing_n into_o it_o or_o whither_o it_o begin_v to_o be_v there_o without_o conversion_n or_o turn_n the_o substance_n and_o accident_n of_o bread_n remain_v in_o which_o say_v of_o gabriels_n as_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o former_a part_n because_o it_o make_v clear_o against_o you_o so_o you_o may_v also_o have_v leave_v out_o the_o late_a as_o make_v nothing_o against_o we_o as_o be_v evident_a of_o itself_o without_o far_a declaration_n 15._o your_o next_o author_n be_v cardinal_n de_fw-fr aliaco_n who_o you_o tell_v we_o think_v it_o possible_a that_o the_o bread_n may_v remain_v with_o christ_n body_n and_o that_o it_o be_v more_o easy_a and_o more_o reasonable_a to_o conceive_v whereto_o i_o answer_v what_o then_o what_o be_v this_o to_o your_o purpose_n if_o you_o be_v a_o lutheran_n you_o may_v have_v a_o little_a colour_n but_o see_v you_o be_v a_o caluinist_n or_o protestant_n or_o some_o such_o i_o know_v not_o what_o it_o make_v nothing_o at_o all_o for_o you_o not_o even_o in_o show_n but_o be_v you_o caluinist_n protestant_n lutheran_n or_o what_o you_o will_v it_o make_v not_o for_o you_o suppose_v that_o may_v be_v possible_a more_o easy_a etc._n etc._n what_o be_v that_o to_o our_o purpose_n that_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o faith_n for_o faith_n do_v not_o stand_v teach_v metaphysical_a possibilitye_n or_o impossibilitye_n what_o may_v be_v or_o not_o be_v but_o what_o be_v or_o be_v not_o and_o which_o be_v chief_o to_o be_v consider_v though_o this_o author_n think_v that_o way_n more_o possible_a and_o more_o easy_a to_o be_v conceive_v according_a to_o humane_a capacity_n yet_o even_o herein_o he_o prefer_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n before_o his_o own_o as_o his_o very_a word_n by_o you_o cite_v do_v testify_v for_o he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v more_o easy_a and_o more_o reasonable_a to_o conceive_v if_o it_o can_v accord_v which_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n but_o what_o be_v this_o authority_n to_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n which_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n do_v it_o prove_v do_v it_o say_v that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n or_o that_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v not_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o so_o of_o the_o rest_n not_o a_o word_n of_o all_o these_o by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a you_o only_o look_v to_o say_v somewhat_o but_o care_v not_o what_o 16._o after_o this_o cardinal_n you_o bring_v bishop_n fisher_n who_o you_o may_v better_o have_v 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gospel_n be_v rather_o to_o be_v have_v by_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_v of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n and_o prove_v it_o by_o this_o that_o if_o we_o lie_v aside_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o use_n of_o the_o church_n no_o man_n can_v be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o any_o priest_n now_o in_o these_o time_n do_v consecrate_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o same_o that_o he_o say_v after_o in_o other_o word_n in_o nostra_fw-la missa_fw-la in_o our_o mass_n that_o be_v mass_n in_o these_o time_n not_o say_v he_o that_o this_o matter_n be_v now_o doubtful_a but_o that_o the_o certainty_n thereof_o be_v have_v not_o so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_n of_o so_o long_a time_n which_o they_o have_v leave_v to_o posterity_n for_o say_v he_o again_o though_o christ_n of_o bread_n make_v his_o body_n 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the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la not_o out_o of_o scripture_n this_o i_o say_v be_v a_o idle_a argument_n for_o the_o father_n interpretation_n &_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n do_v but_o deliver_v we_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n 17._o what_o then_o have_v you_o here_o out_o of_o bishop_n fisher_n to_o prove_v any_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n not_o one_o word_n for_o if_o his_o word_n do_v prove_v any_o thing_n they_o shall_v prove_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n not_o against_o transubstantiation_n which_o be_v your_o controversy_n and_o for_o those_o other_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o this_o same_o holy_a bishop_n and_o martyr_n for_o a_o conclusion_n thus_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturam_fw-la probari_fw-la it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n they_o discover_v your_o dishonesty_n most_o of_o all_o for_o by_o break_v of_o the_o sentence_n there_o you_o 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often_o as_o he_o shall_v go_v about_o that_o business_n shall_v in_o like_a manner_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n make_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n as_o christ_n himself_o do_v see_v that_o neither_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o his_o drift_n be_v only_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a word_n in_o scripture_n whereby_o it_o be_v promise_v that_o either_o priest_n or_o lay_v man_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o consecrate_v &_o that_o though_o christ_n do_v himself_o consecrate_v &_o command_v his_o apostle_n so_o to_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o that_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o add_v any_o express_a promise_n that_o the_o same_o effect_n shall_v always_o follow_v whensoever_o any_o man_n shall_v offer_v to_o consecrate_v which_o be_v not_o against_o us._n for_o we_o gather_v that_o power_n to_o pertain_v to_o the_o apostle_n successor_n in_o priesthood_n out_o of_o the_o word_n 1._o council_n trid._n sess_n 22._o q._n 1._o hoc_fw-la facite_fw-la in_o meam_fw-la commemorationem_fw-la not_o bare_o but_o as_o they_o have_v be_v ever_o understand_v by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v against_o we_o that_o we_o may_v rather_o urge_v it_o against_o you_o upon_o the_o same_o occasion_n that_o bishop_n fisher_n do_v to_o wit_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o tradition_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n and_o so_o by_o this_o it_o be_v manifest_v how_o much_o you_o have_v abuse_v this_o holy_a bishop_n meaning_n as_o you_o do_v other_o two_o bishop_n that_o follow_v 18._o the_o one_o be_v gul._n durandus_fw-la bishop_n of_o mand_v out_o of_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o will_v prove_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o to_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n of_o this_o sacrament_n for_o what_o else_o you_o will_v have_v with_o he_o i_o see_v not_o but_o special_o because_o have_v cite_v he_o thus_o in_o english_a christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n by_o his_o heavenly_a benediction_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o word_n the_o bread_n be_v turn_v unto_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n then_o you_o put_v these_o word_n in_o latin_a tunc_fw-la confecit_fw-la cum_fw-la benedixit_fw-la they_o he_o make_v it_o when_o he_o bless_v it_o whereby_o you_o seem_v to_o put_v the_o force_n of_o this_o testimony_n in_o those_o word_n as_o if_o by_o they_o you_o will_v prove_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la that_o christ_n do_v not_o consecrate_v by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o that_o blessing_n but_o durand_n himself_o shall_v disprove_v you_o sir_n knight_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v benedixit_fw-la benedictione_n caelesti_fw-la &_o virtute_fw-la verbi_fw-la qua_fw-la convertitur_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la to_o wit_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la he_o bless_v it_o by_o the_o heavenly_a blessing_n and_o power_n of_o the_o word_n by_o which_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n 14._o durand_n rat_n cap._n 41._o n._n 14._o to_o wit_n this_o be_v my_o body_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la which_o last_o word_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v sir_n humphrey_n why_o you_o cut_v of_o but_o i_o need_v not_o ask_v for_o any_o man_n may_v see_v it_o be_v because_o you_o will_v not_o have_v that_o powerful_a benediction_n whereof_o this_o author_n speak_v to_o consist_v in_o those_o sacred_a word_n but_o durand_n both_o in_o this_o very_a sentence_n and_o often_o in_o the_o same_o place_n attribute_v most_o plain_o that_o power_n to_o those_o very_a word_n not_o to_o any_o other_o blessing_n as_o may_v appear_v in_o that_o he_o say_v that_o we_o do_v bless_v ex_fw-la illa_fw-la virtute_fw-la quam_fw-la christus_fw-la indidit_fw-la verbis_fw-la by_o that_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o word_n 19_o odo_n caemeracensis_n be_v the_o other_o bishop_n that_o follow_v who_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o cite_v and_o as_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n his_o word_n be_v these_o as_o you_o bring_v they_o christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n and_o then_o make_v that_o his_o body_n which_o be_v first_o bread_n and_o so_o by_o blessing_n it_o become_v flesh_n for_o otherwise_o he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v after_o he_o have_v bless_v it_o this_o be_v my_o body_n unless_o by_o blessing_n it_o he_o have_v make_v it_o his_o body_n which_o word_n you_o put_v in_o the_o margin_n in_o latin_a imperfect_o and_o translate_v even_o they_o corrupt_o benedixit_fw-la suum_fw-la corpus_fw-la you_o translate_v christ_n bless_v bread_n qui_fw-la priùs_fw-la erat_fw-la panis_fw-la benedictione_n factus_fw-la est_fw-la caro_fw-la which_o in_o true_a english_a be_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o by_o blessing_n be_v make_v flesh_n you_o translate_v otherwise_o as_o may_v appear_v by_o your_o word_n though_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o end_n you_o shall_v so_o
thus_o scotus_n not_o only_o teach_v transubstantiation_n himself_o but_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o make_v most_o frequent_a mention_n of_o the_o change_n and_o conversion_n of_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o scotus_n must_v have_v hold_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o substance_n thereof_o to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o s._n ambrose_n at_o the_o least_o and_o if_o so_o ancient_a then_o even_o from_o the_o beginning_n his_o meaning_n therefore_o in_o say_v it_o be_v determine_v of_o late_a in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n be_v only_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o bless_a sauiour_n body_n either_o by_o transubstantiation_n that_o be_v by_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n or_o otherwise_o so_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v remain_v the_o church_n have_v determine_v that_o the_o word_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o former_a sense_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v by_o his_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n expound_v of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v she_o do_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n wherewith_o the_o faith_n be_v deliver_v to_o we_o to_o wit_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n 11.9.3_o v._o scot._n in_o 4._o sent._n do_v 11.9.3_o which_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o though_o it_o be_v also_o the_o common_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o beginning_n yet_o it_o may_v well_o be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v be_v de_fw-fr substantia_fw-la fidei_fw-la yribarne_n speak_v because_o it_o have_v not_o be_v so_o plain_o deliver_v nor_o determine_v in_o any_o council_n till_o greg._n the_o 7._o his_o time_n wherein_o it_o be_v first_o define_v against_o berengarius_fw-la and_o that_o but_o by_o a_o particular_a or_o provincial_a roman_a council_n 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be_v so_o whole_o you_o that_o maldonat_n expound_v a_o place_n in_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n say_v that_o he_o be_v persuade_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n and_o see_v that_o caluin_n expound_v the_o same_o place_n as_o he_o do_v he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o mind_n and_o for_o theodoret_n you_o say_v that_o valentia_n observe_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o consecrate_a element_n do_v remain_v in_o their_o proper_a substance_n and_o shape_n and_o figure_n he_o make_v the_o like_a answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o one_o or_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n before_o the_o question_n be_v debate_v do_v think_v less_o considerate_o and_o true_o of_o transubstantiation_n this_o be_v all_o that_o ever_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o much_o to_o your_o shame_n shall_v upon_o examination_n appear_v io._n aug_n er_fw-mi 26._o in_o io._n 26._o for_o s._n augustine_n then_o what_o be_v it_o that_o he_o say_v in_o favour_n of_o you_o in_o expound_v that_o verse_n of_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n where_o our_o saviour_n say_v your_o father_n have_v eat_v manna_n and_o be_v dead_a he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o their_o father_n that_o be_v the_o naughty_a and_o unbelieve_a people_n of_o the_o jew_n die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o in_o their_o soul_n because_o they_o in_o eat_v manna_n do_v consider_v only_o what_o it_o present_v to_o their_o outward_a sense_n and_o not_o what_o it_o represent_v unto_o their_o mind_n by_o faith_n whereas_o the_o good_a man_n among_o they_o as_o moses_n aaron_n phinees_n and_o other_o who_o he_o say_v be_v our_o father_n and_o not_o they_o do_v not_o die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o because_o they_o do_v not_o consider_v it_o only_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n but_o according_a to_o faith_n remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o figure_n and_o a_o figure_n of_o this_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o we_o 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same_o if_o he_o have_v live_v now_o in_o these_o time_n you_o hereby_o insinuate_v as_o if_o s._n augustine_n think_v otherwise_o thereof_o then_o we_o now_o teach_v but_o how_o gross_o false_a this_o be_v may_v appear_v plain_o by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n whereof_o either_o s._n aug._n or_o maldonate_fw-it speak_v but_o how_o they_o that_o eat_v manna_n have_v dye_v and_o they_o that_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v live_v according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n which_o be_v clean_o a_o different_a thing_n wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v line_v s._n aug._n somewhat_o but_o maldonate_fw-it you_o be_v line_v much_o more_o by_o make_v as_o if_o he_o acknowledge_v s._n augustine_n to_o be_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v
in_o this_o place_n you_o may_v see_v bellarmine_n and_o other_o namely_o suar._n who_o beside_o scripture_n bring_v irrefragable_a proof_n of_o ancient_a pope_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n counsel_n 32._o 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 32._o and_o ancient_a father_n and_o for_o halensis_n and_o one_o divine_a or_o 2._o more_o which_o may_v say_v somewhat_o to_o the_o contrary_n they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v hear_v against_o the_o whole_a torrent_n of_o father_n &_o doctor_n though_o even_o these_o acknowledge_v they_o true_a sacrament_n &_o institute_v by_o christ_n for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o effect_n or_o promise_v of_o grace_n annex_v to_o they_o though_o not_o for_o the_o outward_a ceremony_n and_o word_n which_o they_o think_v be_v afterward_o appoint_v of_o which_o i_o shall_v say_v more_o by_o and_o by_o 6._o for_o order_n and_o penance_n you_o deny_v not_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n but_o you_o deny_v they_o to_o have_v any_o outward_a element_n join_v 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life_n and_o so_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n be_v a_o good_a thing_n indeed_o and_o too_o good_a for_o lay_v man_n to_o exercise_v as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o reprobation_n of_o saul_n for_o presume_v to_o do_v it_o and_o ozias_n his_o leprosy_n wherewith_o he_o be_v strike_v by_o the_o hand_n of_o god_n for_o presume_v to_o offer_v incense_n in_o the_o temple_n 26.19_o 1._o reg_n 15.2_o paralip_n 26.19_o why_o then_o may_v not_o these_o be_v sacrament_n by_o the_o way_n you_o note_v in_o the_o margin_n that_o vazquez_n acknowledge_v matrimony_n to_o be_v no_o sacrament_n proper_o cite_v a_o place_n after_o in_o this_o your_o own_o book_n which_o i_o shall_v answer_v there_o and_o discover_v your_o notorious_a falsehood_n 7._o now_o to_o the_o curse_n whereof_o you_o will_v make_v the_o father_n guilty_a as_o well_o as_o yourself_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o of_o these_o father_n which_o you_o name_v two_o to_o wit_n halensis_n and_o durand_n be_v ordinary_o count_v among_o the_o schoolman_n not_o among_o the_o father_n as_o also_o bessarion_n who_o live_v little_o more_o than_o 150._o year_n since_o second_o that_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o father_n upon_o several_a occasion_n mention_v the_o sacrament_n several_o sometime_o they_o mention_v two_o sometime_o three_o sometime_o 4.5_o or_o 6._o more_o or_o less_o as_o the_o particular_a matter_n which_o they_o handle_v give_v occasion_n yet_o never_o do_v any_o man_n say_v there_o be_v only_o 2.3.4_o etc._n etc._n show_v this_o if_o you_o can_v sir_n knight_n and_o you_o say_v something_o else_o all_o be_v but_o babble_v that_o you_o talk_v of_o the_o father_n mention_v 2.3_o or_o 4._o etc._n etc._n and_o this_o answer_n have_v be_v often_o make_v and_o can_v be_v impugn_a to_o which_o yet_o you_o stand_v still_o repeat_v your_o frivolous_a objection_n over_o and_o over_o again_o without_o reply_v upon_o the_o answer_n or_o even_o take_v notice_n thereof_o for_o a_o chief_a part_n of_o your_o discourse_n in_o this_o §_o be_v but_o take_v out_o of_o chemnitius_n 14._o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-la sacram_fw-la in_o gen_fw-la cap._n 14._o as_o may_v appear_v by_o bellarmine_n in_o his_o controversy_n de_fw-fr sacramentis_fw-la in_o genere_fw-la where_o he_o answer_v all_o the_o argument_n full_o which_o shall_v therefore_o save_v i_o some_o labour_n so_o as_o i_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o do_v more_o than_o point_n at_o something_n brief_o and_o discover_v your_o own_o proper_a corruption_n 8._o well_o then_o you_o tell_v we_o the_o saint_n ambrose_n augustine_n chrysostome_n &_o bede_n teach_v that_o out_o of_o the_o side_n of_o our_o saviour_n when_o the_o blood_n &_o water_n yssue_v upon_o the_o cross_n there_o come_v out_o the_o sacrament_n baptism_n &_o eucharist_n which_o i_o do_v not_o see_v to_o what_o other_o purpose_n you_o bring_v but_o only_o to_o insinuate_v thereby_o as_o if_o in_o their_o opinion_n there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o true_a it_o be_v that_o some_o father_n interprett_n the_o blood_n and_o water_n issue_v out_o of_o our_o sauiour_n side_n to_o signify_v those_o two_o sacrament_n but_o yet_o you_o be_v best_o look_v in_o your_o friend_n chemnitius_n from_o who_o you_o borrow_v this_o argument_n whether_o he_o cite_v all_o these_o father_n for_o this_o explication_n i_o do_v not_o think_v you_o will_v find_v s._n ambrose_n and_o bede_n there_o for_o s._n aug._n it_o be_v true_a he_o explicate_v it_o so_o in_o some_o place_n and_o otherwise_o also_o in_o other_o as_o i_o shall_v show_v after_o but_o for_o that_o place_n which_o you_o cite_v here_o i_o be_o sure_a he_o have_v nothing_o of_o two_o sacrament_n only_o or_o of_o any_o number_n of_o sacrament_n at_o all_o but_o only_o thus_o in_o general_n 15._o aug._n in_o io._n troth_n 15._o de_fw-fr latere_fw-la christi_n in_o cruse_n pendentis_fw-la lancea_fw-la percusso_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la profluxerunt_fw-la out_o of_o the_o side_n of_o christ_n hang_v upon_o the_o cross_n smite_v with_o a_o spear_n issue_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o church_n which_o word_n may_v as_o well_o be_v verify_v of_o seven_o as_o of_o two_o sacrament_n but_o be_v it_o as_o you_o say_v that_o all_o the_o father_n explicate_v that_o scripture_n of_o the_o two_o sacrament_n baptism_n and_o eucharist_n what_o then_o do_v they_o say_v that_o they_o be_v then_o institute_v or_o that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o sacrament_n institute_v or_o that_o other_o sacrament_n do_v not_o issue_n from_o thence_o also_o noe_o such_o matter_n all_o they_o say_v be_v only_o that_o those_o two_o sacrament_n come_v from_o our_o sauiour_n side_n simbolical_o or_o significative_o to_o wit_v the_o water_n signify_v baptism_n the_o blood_n the_o eucharist_n but_o now_o other_o father_n as_o i_o touch_v before_o to_o wit_n saint_n ambrose_n saint_n hierome_n saint_n cyril_n s._n leo_n bede_n and_o even_o s._n augustine_n in_o another_o place_n say_v that_o 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say_v you_o to_o this_o sir_n humphrey_n have_v i_o not_o just_a cause_n here_o to_o tell_v you_o your_o own_o but_o i_o forbear_v you_o 23._o extreme_a unction_n be_v next_o of_o which_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o that_o anoyl_v which_o the_o apostle_n use_v mar._n 6._o be_v not_o extreme_a unction_n &_o that_o caietane_n say_v the_o same_o of_o the_o anoyl_a which_o s._n james_n speak_v of_o 5._o p._n jacq_n 5._o likewise_o of_o hugo_n peter_n lombard_n bonaventure_n &_o altisiodorensis_n you_o say_v that_o they_o hold_v it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n well_o what_o of_o all_o this_o be_v it_o so_o that_o one_o think_v it_o not_o to_o be_v mention_v in_o s._n mark_v another_o not_o in_o s._n james_n other_o not_o to_o have_v be_v institute_v by_o christ_n what_o then_o do_v therefore_o any_o one_o of_o all_o these_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n nay_o do_v they_o not_o all_o say_v and_o maintain_v the_o contrary_n most_o express_o &_o which_o be_v more_o do_v not_o you_o yourself_o out_o of_o your_o friend_n cassander_n acknowledge_v that_o in_o peter_n lombard_n time_n the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n be_v determine_v though_o not_o before_o as_o out_o of_o the_o same_o cassander_n you_o wise_o say_v for_o hugo_n vict._n as_o i_o show_v before_o determine_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n somewhat_o before_o peter_n lombard_n time_n but_o to_o let_v that_o go_v if_o in_o peter_n lombard_n time_n there_o be_v seven_o sacrament_n acknowledge_v then_o be_v extreme_a unction_n one_o but_o you_o will_v say_v that_o out_o of_o that_o which_o those_o 5._o ancient_a divine_n say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n it_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n i_o answer_v have_v you_o live_v in_o their_o time_n they_o will_v have_v deny_v your_o consequence_n but_o have_v they_o live_v now_o in_o you_o they_o will_v have_v say_v that_o christ_n do_v institute_v it_o for_o that_o be_v now_o define_v which_o then_o be_v not_o &_o so_o for_o they_o you_o be_v answer_v now_o for_o bellarmine_n he_o say_v well_o it_o be_v not_o deduce_v out_o of_o that_o place_n of_o s._n mark_v what_o then_o out_o of_o no_o place_n else_o or_o if_o out_o of_o no_o place_n else_o but_o by_o tradition_n shall_v it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n what_o argument_n be_v these_o sir_n knight_n to_o convince_v a_o catholic_a or_o any_o man_n of_o learning_n withal_o but_o catetan_a you_o tell_v we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o that_o which_o s._n james_n speak_v of_o what_o then_o suppose_v he_o say_v well_o and_o true_o do_v he_o therefore_o say_v it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n noe_o sure_o no_o more_o than_o he_o deny_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n to_o be_v the_o true_a body_n &_o blood_n of_o christ_n though_o he_o thaught_v the_o real_a presence_n not_o to_o be_v sufficient_o prove_v out_o of_o the_o very_a word_n of_o consecration_n without_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o church_n but_o as_o both_o in_o one_o and_o other_o he_o do_v err_v for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o proof_n of_o those_o article_n out_o of_o scripture_n which_o be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o matter_n between_o you_o and_o we_o so_o do_v he_o not_o err_v for_o the_o thing_n themselves_o but_o have_v he_o live_v to_o see_v this_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n declare_v and_o this_o verity_n of_o extreme_a unction_n define_v out_o of_o hat_n place_n of_o s._n james_n by_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n 1._o conc._n try_v sess_n 14._o the_o extr_n unct_n c._n 1._o he_o will_v have_v submit_v his_o judgement_n 24._o as_o for_o the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n you_o say_v that_o soto_n tell_v we_o that_o ordination_n of_o bishop_n be_v not_o crue_o and_o proper_o a_o sacrament_n well_o be_v it_o so_o let_v soto_n say_v so_o do_v he_o deny_v the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n in_o the_o church_n other_o deny_v the_o four_o lesser_a order_n to_o be_v sacrament_n and_o some_o deny_v sub-deaconship_a to_o be_v so_o what_o then_o do_v they_o deny_v the_o sacrament_n of_o order_n in_o the_o church_n to_o be_v proper_o and_o true_o a_o sacrament_n as_o you_o do_v this_o be_v boy_n play_v sir_n humphrey_n there_o be_v a_o question_n among_o catholic_n concern_v the_o episcopal_a power_n and_o character_n whither_o as_o it_o be_v distinct_a from_o priesthood_n it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n of_o itself_o whether_o there_o be_v a_o new_a character_n or_o the_o same_o extend_a and_o the_o like_a some_o say_v i_o some_o say_v no_o what_o be_v this_o to_o you_o it_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o faith_n whereof_o we_o be_v not_o to_o dispute_v with_o you_o but_o keep_v you_o off_o at_o the_o staffe_n end_n or_o rather_o out_o of_o door_n when_o you_o be_v once_o receive_v into_o the_o catholic_a church_n we_o may_v admit_v you_o to_o speak_v of_o a_o school_n point_n not_o till_o then_o 25._o last_o about_o matrimony_n you_o make_v much_o ado_n first_o you_o tell_v we_o durand_n deni_v it_o to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n strict_o and_o proper_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o he_o say_v indeed_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n univocal_o agree_v with_o the_o other_o six_o which_o come_v much_o to_o one_o with_o what_o you_o say_v neither_o will_v i_o stand_v with_o you_o for_o a_o small_a matter_n but_o look_v in_o bell._n for_o answer_n 5._o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr matr._n cap._n 5._o who_o handle_v that_o matter_n of_o durand_n large_o lib._n 1_o de_fw-fr matr._n c._n 5._o i_o only_o say_v brief_o that_o all_o acknowledge_v a_o error_n in_o he_o &_o divine_n of_o his_o own_o time_n do_v note_v it_o for_o such_o though_o then_o the_o matter_n be_v not_o so_o clear_o define_v second_o you_o say_v caietan_n say_v the_o prudent_a reader_n can_v infer_v out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o s._n paul_n eph._n 5._o sacramentum_fw-la hoc_fw-la magnum_fw-la est_fw-la that_o matrimony_n be_v a_o sacrament_n he_o do_v not_o be_v it_o so_o neither_o do_v we_o infer_v it_o upon_o that_o word_n sacramentum_fw-la but_o do_v caietan_n deny_v it_o to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n because_o it_o be_v not_o infer_v from_o that_o word_n no_o sure_o what_o then_o do_v you_o bring_v he_o for_o though_o it_o be_v not_o infer_v from_o this_o place_n may_v it_o not_o be_v infer_v from_o another_o or_o if_o neither_o from_o this_o nor_o other_o may_v it_o not_o be_v deduce_v out_o of_o tradition_n three_o you_o say_v that_o for_o a_o conclusion_n our_o own_o canus_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o he_o shall_v be_v account_v a_o fool_n who_o in_o so_o great_a difference_n of_o opinion_n will_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o establish_v a_o certain_a and_o know_a doctrine_n canus_n say_v rem_fw-la aliquam_fw-la certam_fw-la which_o you_o translate_v a_o certain_a and_o know_a doctrine_n which_o you_o may_v as_o well_o and_o as_o easy_o have_v translate_v any_o thing_n certain_a and_o more_o true_o though_o this_o be_v but_o a_o small_a matter_n to_o stand_v upon_o only_o i_o note_v it_o because_o i_o see_v your_o drift_n be_v from_o the_o diversity_n of_o opinion_n which_o be_v among_o catholic_a divine_n in_o assign_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n wherein_o canus_n say_v it_o be_v a_o foolish_a thing_n for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o determine_v any_o thing_n for_o certain_a and_o clear_a your_o drift_n i_o say_v be_v to_o make_v your_o reader_n believe_v that_o canus_n say_v the_o doctrine_n of_o matrimony_n be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o be_v uncertain_a and_o unknown_a but_o this_o be_v but_o one_o of_o your_o ordinary_a trick_n well_o to_o come_v to_o canus_n he_o say_v true_a that_o there_o be_v difference_n among_o divine_n concern_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o this_o sacrament_n but_o he_o himself_o make_v the_o chieffe_n difference_n by_o bring_v 7._o v._o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr matr._n cap._n 7._o in_o a_o new_a and_o singular_a opinion_n of_o his_o own_o by_o which_o he_o say_v that_o the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n of_o this_o sacrament_n and_o consequent_o that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o marriage_n make_v without_o a_o priest_n it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n in_o his_o opinion_n but_o whither_o it_o be_v true_a that_o you_o sir_n knight_n will_v make_v we_o think_v that_o in_o his_o judgement_n matrimony_n be_v no_o sacrament_n he_o shall_v bear_v witness_v himself_o 5._o can._n loc_fw-la lib._n 8._o cap._n 5._o sive_fw-la nostra_fw-la opinio_fw-la vera_fw-la sit_fw-la sive_fw-la falsa_fw-la nihil_fw-la moror_fw-la si_fw-mi lutherani_fw-la de_fw-la hoc_fw-la matrimoniorun_v genere_fw-la disceptare_fw-la voluerint_fw-la intelligant_fw-la
you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o observe_v that_o the_o word_n use_v by_o saint_n peter_n in_o that_o place_n signify_v idol-worship_n not_o image-worship_n wherein_o you_o seem_v plain_o to_o confess_v that_o image-worship_n and_o idol-worship_n and_o consequent_o a_o image_n and_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o whereby_o as_o you_o think_v to_o advantage_v you_o self_n in_o this_o place_n against_o the_o jesuit_n so_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v that_o herein_o you_o contradict_v your_o self_n and_o the_o whole_a currant_n of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o chief_a argument_n against_o image_n be_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n against_o idol_n which_o you_o also_o bring_v before_o for_o if_o a_o image_n &_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o then_o be_v all_o your_o argument_n nothing_o worth_a or_o if_o they_o be_v then_o be_v valentia_n argument_n good_a choose_v which_o you_o will_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o cast_v up_o your_o count_n aright_o you_o will_v find_v you_o have_v lose_v more_o than_o you_o have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o of_o those_o thing_n be_v the_o matter_n &_o which_o the_o form_n for_o example_n if_o a_o priest_n in_o baptism_n use_v true_a water_n and_o the_o right_a word_n he_o do_v administer_v a_o true_a sacrament_n though_o he_o shall_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n nay_o though_o he_o shall_v think_v the_o word_n to_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o water_v the_o form_n though_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n the_o other_o place_n of_o canus_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o matrimony_n contract_v without_o a_o priest_n be_v no_o sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o opinion_n the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n and_o of_o that_o kind_n of_o matrimony_n he_o consequent_o deni_v it_o to_o give_v grace_n but_o of_o matrimony_n absolute_o and_o as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o never_o make_v doubt_n see_v before_o his_o word_n 16._o the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
what_o merit_n but_o it_o be_v true_a walden_n as_o suarez_n well_o note_v though_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o this_o controversy_n but_o against_o the_o pelagian_n be_v somewhat_o too_o strict_a 16._o v._o bell._n lib._n 5_o the_o iustif_a cap._n 16._o and_o though_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o thing_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o so_o well_o like_o the_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o merit_n as_o alsoe_o some_o other_o divine_n do_v not_o so_o approve_v the_o word_n meritum_fw-la de_fw-la condigno_fw-la though_o in_o the_o thing_n itself_o they_o all_o agree_v to_o wit_n that_o aeternal_a life_n be_v give_v to_o man_n as_o the_o reward_n of_o their_o good_a work_n which_o be_v all_o that_o other_o mean_v by_o condign_a merit_n your_o last_o authority_n be_v a_o place_n of_o bell._n which_o have_v be_v answer_v before_o to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v most_o safe_a to_o trust_v whole_o in_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o i_o wonder_v why_o you_o shall_v allege_v for_o your_o doctrine_n against_o we_o for_o it_o be_v we_o as_o well_o or_o more_o than_o you_o neither_o do_v we_o condemn_v you_o for_o not_o trust_v in_o your_o work_n 12._o chap._n 12._o or_o trust_v whole_o in_o christ_n if_o so_o be_v you_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o necessity_n and_o efficacy_n of_o good_a work_n for_o purchase_v grace_n and_o glory_n and_o that_o be_v your_o doctrine_n which_o you_o shall_v show_v to_o be_v safe_a but_o that_o you_o can_v nor_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o go_v about_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o chapter_n all_o your_o proof_n sail_v in_o every_o point_n your_o vaunt_a conclusion_n of_o the_o safety_n profitt_a and_o comfort_n of_o your_o belief_n vanish_v into_o smoke_n as_o the_o rest_n do_v of_o the_o 12._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o our_o adversary_n convict_v by_o the_o evident_a testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n either_o ridiculous_o elude_v they_o or_o plain_o reject_v they_o chapter_n xii_o 1._o it_o can_v be_v unknown_a to_o any_o man_n of_o learning_n or_o that_o have_v but_o any_o the_o lest_o acquaintance_n with_o the_o controversy_n of_o this_o age_n what_o great_a advantage_n we_o catholic_n have_v by_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n how_o high_o we_o esteem_v they_o what_o confidence_n we_o place_n in_o they_o and_o how_o we_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o decision_n of_o our_o controversy_n and_o how_o small_a respect_n on_o the_o other_o side_n haeretique_n show_v either_o to_o their_o person_n or_o writing_n as_o be_v in_o their_o opinion_n but_o man_n and_o subject_a to_o error_n or_o rather_o how_o contemptible_o they_o speak_v of_o they_o for_o proof_n whereof_o a_o man_n need_v not_o go_v far_o than_o that_o little_a treatise_n of_o campian_n 10._o reason_n the_o 5._o of_o which_o be_v of_o the_o father_n where_o a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o the_o haeretique_n say_v of_o they_o they_o call_v one_o a_o old_a dote_a man_n another_o they_o call_v a_o childish_a writer_n a_o three_o 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father_n or_o reject_v their_o evident_a testimony_n neither_o do_v he_o in_o all_o this_o section_n bring_v one_o argument_n or_o one_o word_n of_o authority_n to_o disprove_v any_o thing_n that_o any_o author_n of_o we_o have_v say_v nor_o do_v he_o allege_v even_o the_o reason_n which_o our_o author_n give_v of_o their_o say_n whereas_o they_o give_v very_o many_o &_o solid_a reason_n so_o that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v tell_v what_o the_o man_n mean_v in_o this_o manner_n of_o deal_v nor_o what_o to_o say_v to_o he_o for_o even_o the_o word_n of_o our_o author_n which_o he_o bring_v be_v very_o sufficient_a answer_n so_o as_o i_o see_v not_o well_o what_o more_o he_o need_v to_o have_v but_o because_o in_o the_o fashion_n or_o sleight_n manner_n of_o speak_v he_o may_v delude_v some_o of_o his_o reader_n and_o make_v they_o think_v the_o answer_n insufficient_a i_o must_v a_o little_a more_o discover_v his_o impertinency_n in_o leave_v out_o some_o of_o the_o answer_n and_o 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either_o a_o arrian_n himself_o or_o his_o work_n be_v corrupt_v by_o arrian_n and_o this_o he_o do_v not_o bare_o say_v neither_o in_o his_o controversy_n nor_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr scripto_fw-la eccle_n 11._o de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 11._o which_o be_v the_o book_n here_o cite_v by_o sir_n humphrey_n where_o bellarmine_n say_v the_o thing_n but_o not_o by_o way_n of_o answer_n as_o he_o make_v he_o i_o say_v he_o do_v not_o only_o say_v it_o but_o also_o prove_v it_o by_o a_o plain_a example_n or_o two_o of_o arianisme_n chrysost_n verb._n io._n chrysost_n but_o because_o he_o find_v catholic_a doctrine_n in_o other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o work_n and_o in_o the_o same_o point_n he_o rather_o think_v the_o author_n to_o be_v a_o catholic_a and_o his_o work_n only_o to_o have_v be_v corrupt_v and_o this_o be_v most_o true_a and_o evident_a which_o have_v the_o knight_n but_o set_v down_o thus_o plain_o what_o have_v there_o be_v more_o to_o be_v object_v or_o answer_v but_o he_o curtail_v it_o as_o if_o bell._n have_v say_v only_o it_o be_v none_o of_o chrys_n which_o be_v also_o so_o true_a &_o plain_a as_o he_o himself_o can_v gainsay_v it_o and_o yet_o he_o be_v not_o ashamed_a for_o the_o credit_n of_o his_o objection_n to_o call_v it_o chrysostom_n but_o the_o place_n itself_o be_v so_o far_o from_o prove_v the_o all_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n as_o it_o prove_v nothing_o at_o all_o but_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o sir_n humphreys_n wit_n for_o how_o many_o way_n may_v it_o be_v answer_v even_o suppose_v that_o the_o word_n be_v s._n chrysostom_n or_o some_o other_o good_a author_n be_v but_o these_o that_o the_o church_n be_v know_v only_o by_o scripture_n for_o i_o ask_v he_o
what_o then_o what_o be_v this_o to_o many_o other_o point_n which_o we_o say_v can_v be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n be_v this_o a_o good_a consequence_n the_o church_n be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n ergo_fw-la all_o thing_n else_o and_o even_o scripture_n itself_o be_v know_v only_o by_o scripture_n sure_o no_o and_o yet_o this_o consequence_n must_v be_v good_a or_o else_o sir_n humphrey_n your_o argument_n be_v not_o good_a beside_o these_o word_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o scripture_n compare_v with_o other_o write_n that_o be_v that_o the_o church_n be_v know_v to_o we_o only_o by_o scripture_n not_o by_o other_o write_n whereof_o either_o none_o speak_v so_o clear_o of_o the_o church_n or_o none_o be_v like_o thereunto_o for_o authority_n which_o yet_o do_v not_o exclude_v other_o proof_n or_o mark_n of_o the_o church_n and_o indeed_o the_o church_n be_v most_o know_v and_o best_a prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n of_o any_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n as_o may_v 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unto_o you_o mean_v while_o look_v a_o little_a better_o in_o bellar._n again_o and_o tell_v we_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o 3._o or_o 4._o other_o answer_n see_v also_o before_o cap._n 10._o the_o other_o place_n of_o saint_n augu._n be_v as_o you_o say_v touch_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n because_o s._n augu._n in_o those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n thou_o be_v peter_n and_o upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n take_v not_o peter_n and_o this_o rock_n to_o be_v all_o one_o but_o the_o rock_n to_o be_v our_o saviour_n himself_o and_o petrus_n to_o be_v a_o derivative_n only_o of_o petra_n to_o which_o you_o tell_v we_o stapleton_n make_v answer_n that_o it_o be_v lapsus_fw-la humanus_fw-la for_o want_v of_o knowledge_n of_o the_o greek_a and_o cause_v by_o the_o diversity_n of_o the_o two_o language_n latin_a and_o greek_a which_o answer_n though_o you_o relate_v in_o a_o slight_a fashion_n as_o if_o you_o take_v it_o to_o be_v in_o sufficient_a yet_o you_o neither_o do_v nor_o indeed_o can_v say_v against_o it_o if_o you_o know_v greek_n and_o latin_a or_o if_o you_o do_v not_o go_v but_o to_o some_o of_o your_o minister_n and_o get_v they_o to_o look_v in_o their_o own_o greek_a lexicon_n i_o mean_v set_v out_o by_o haeretique_n and_o see_v whether_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v a_o adiective_n and_o a_o derivative_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o a_o substantive_a signify_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n and_o let_v they_o look_v yet_o far_o into_o the_o original_a tongue_n itself_o to_o wit_n the_o syriake_n wherein_o our_o saviour_n speak_v 25._o lib._n 1._o ro_n pontif_n cap._n 25._o and_o see_v whither_o they_o be_v not_o more_o the_o same_o to_o wit_n the_o only_a word_n cephas_n in_o both_o place_n on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v well_o know_a saint_n augu._n profess_v no_o great_a skill_n in_o greek_a as_o he_o witness_v of_o himself_o in_o many_o place_n 165._o aug._n in_o psal_n count_v partem_fw-la donat_n &_o ep_v 165._o beside_o saint_n augu._n do_v not_o bring_v this_o exposition_n to_o derogate_v from_o saint_n peter_n primacy_n which_o he_o confess_v in_o 20._o place_n as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o where_o for_o proof_n thereof_o he_o use_v the_o very_a word_n petra_n which_o here_o he_o distinguish_v from_o petrus_n call_v the_o seat_n of_o peter_n this_o rook_n numerate_v sacerdotes_fw-la ab_fw-la ipsa_fw-la sede_fw-la petri_n ipsa_fw-la est_fw-la petra_fw-la quam_fw-la non_fw-la vincunt_fw-la superbae_fw-la inferorum_fw-la porte_fw-fr reckon_v say_v he_o to_o the_o donatist_n the_o priest_n from_o even_o the_o seat_n of_o peter_n that_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v how_o then_o do_v he_o deny_v s._n peter_n primacy_n and_o perpetuity_n of_o his_o sea_n again_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o may_v find_v other_o answer_n for_o saint_n augu._n himself_o in_o his_o retractation_n put_v both_o the_o explication_n wherein_o the_o word_n petrae_fw-la be_v speak_v of_o christ_n and_o of_o peter_n leave_v the_o choice_n to_o the_o reader_n allow_v both_o interpretation_n which_o you_o do_v not_o because_o one_o be_v flat_a against_o you_o whereas_o we_o do_v not_o reject_v either_o as_o be_v against_o we_o but_o only_o we_o show_v the_o one_o not_o to_o be_v so_o good_a because_o it_o stand_v not_o so_o with_o the_o original_a tongue_n which_o that_o saint_n be_v not_o so_o well_o skill_v in_o and_o literal_a sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o no_o haeretique_n can_v deny_v 4._o the_o 3._o place_n be_v out_o of_o s._n ignatius_n for_o proof_n of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n 26_o bellar._n de_fw-fr euchar._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 26_o one_o cup_n be_v distribute_v to_o all_o to_o which_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n make_v answer_n that_o in_o the_o latin_a book_n it_o be_v not_o find_v that_o one_o cup_n be_v give_v to_o all_o but_o for_o all_o against_o which_o you_o can_v say_v 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they_o it_o be_v plain_a therefore_o you_o do_v but_o cavil_n for_o why_o may_v not_o canus_n say_v the_o same_o of_o s._n hierome_n that_o s._n aug._n do_v 13._o after_o s._n hierome_n you_o come_v to_o justin_n irenaeus_n epiphanius_n and_o oecumenius_n who_o say_v you_o if_o you_o cite_v bellarmine_n answer_v i_o see_v not_o how_o we_o can_v defend_v the_o sentence_n of_o these_o man_n from_o error_n 6_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr sanct._n cap._n 6_o here_o again_o as_o else_o where_o you_o forbear_v to_o tell_v we_o the_o matter_n for_o which_o you_o cite_v they_o or_o who_o of_o your_o author_n cite_v they_o for_o this_o will_v have_v discover_v your_o falsehood_n and_o vanity_n the_o matter_n than_o be_v concern_v the_o damn_a spirit_n whether_o they_o suffer_v any_o punishment_n for_o the_o present_a time_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n or_o not_o these_o father_n think_v not_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o other_o father_n and_o of_o the_o whole_a catholic_a 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he_o can_v defend_v the_o opinion_n of_o justin_n irenaeus_n etc._n etc._n from_o error_n you_o make_v he_o say_v the_o opinion_n of_o these_o man_n as_o if_o he_o do_v speak_v but_o slight_o of_o the_o father_n which_o be_v a_o great_a wrong_n for_o though_o he_o do_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n and_o always_o approve_v the_o opinion_n of_o every_o particular_a man_n yet_o do_v he_o always_o speak_v with_o great_a reverence_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n as_o all_o catholic_n do_v 14._o last_o you_o come_v with_o salmeron_n say_v that_o if_o you_o produce_v the_o uniform_a consent_n of_o father_n against_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n salmeron_n the_o jesuit_n make_v answer_n weak_a be_v the_o place_n which_o be_v
apostasy_n and_o future_a damnation_n to_o each_o other_o this_o poor_a friar_n repent_v himself_o and_o thereupon_o come_v back_o to_o his_o monastery_n and_o do_v penance_n rather_o choose_v to_o suffer_v a_o little_a outward_a austerity_n then_o to_o carry_v about_o in_o the_o bottom_n of_o his_o soul_n such_o a_o inward_a assure_a testimony_n and_o belief_n of_o his_o eternal_a damnation_n as_o he_o see_v these_o two_o do_v i_o may_v say_v more_o of_o the_o man_n fine_a feat_n but_o there_o be_v book_n in_o dutch_a particular_o of_o they_o as_o i_o hear_v and_o so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o in_o this_o your_o learned_a buxhorne_n who_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o licentiate_a make_v a_o doctor_n as_o in_o all_o your_o other_o learned_a man_n that_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n hit_v the_o right_a vein_n and_o discover_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o their_o apostasy_n when_o he_o tell_v the_o university_n man_n it_o be_v not_o any_o chark_n or_o hammer_n that_o hold_v they_o back_o as_o i_o may_v say_v also_o it_o be_v not_o any_o raze_n of_o evidence_n that_o make_v boxhorne_n fall_v from_o his_o faith_n but_o that_o there_o be_v certain_a lutheran_n bait_n wherewith_o many_o of_o they_o be_v catch_v which_o be_v aurum_fw-la gloria_fw-la delitiae_fw-la veneres_fw-la gold_n glory_n delight_n and_o venus_n of_o which_o some_o be_v catch_v with_o one_o some_o with_o another_o and_o so_o you_o see_v this_o your_o learned_a professor_n have_v so_o deep_o swallow_v the_o last_o of_o the_o four_o bait_n that_o it_o make_v his_o stomach_n turn_v at_o the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o exhort_v he_o to_o contemn_v some_o of_o they_o as_o gold_n &_o glory_n and_o force_v he_o to_o forbear_v other_o as_o his_o base_a and_o bestial_a delight_n and_o so_o forsake_v all_o obedience_n to_o humane_a and_o divine_a law_n at_o one_o clapp_n become_v a_o rebel_n to_o his_o prince_n a_o apostata_fw-la to_o religion_n and_o enemy_n to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n therefore_o of_o such_o fellow_n there_o be_v no_o other_o account_n to_o be_v make_v but_o let_v they_o go_v as_o the_o scripture_n say_v of_o one_o of_o their_o chief_a leader_n 2.25_o act._n 2.25_o ut_fw-la abiret_fw-la in_o locum_fw-la suum_fw-la that_o he_o may_v go_v into_o his_o own_o place_n of_o the_o 14._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 14._o chap._n 14._o our_o adversary_n convict_v of_o their_o defence_n of_o a_o desperate_a cause_n by_o their_o blasphemous_a exception_n against_o the_o scripture_n itself_o chapter_n fourteen_o 1._o to_o this_o section_n the_o knight_n give_v a_o beginning_n by_o occasion_n of_o boxhorne_n word_n in_o the_o last_o section_n of_o a_o idol_n in_o the_o temple_n whereupon_o he_o very_o witty_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o we_o see_v the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n stand_v in_o the_o holy_a place_n we_o must_v fly_v to_o the_o mountain_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o s._n chrysostome_n say_v but_o yet_o he_o think_v we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o trial_n of_o scripture_n because_o say_v he_o be_v we_o not_o all_o eye_n witness_n that_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v call_v in_o question_n at_o the_o pope_n assize_n and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v of_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n in_o their_o gospel_n be_v not_o the_o sacred_a bible_n say_v he_o rank_v inter_fw-la libros_fw-la prohibitos_fw-la in_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o forbid_a book_n &_o then_o he_o bring_v corn._n agrippa_n complain_v of_o the_o inquisitor_n that_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v man_n to_o prove_v their_o opinion_n by_o scripture_n this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n which_o upon_o examination_n will_v prove_v as_o foolish_a as_o he_o think_v it_o witty_a i_o answer_v therefore_o that_o though_o catholic_n hold_v for_o most_o certain_a that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n nor_o that_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o all_o controversy_n can_v be_v decide_v as_o for_o 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his_o nativity_n and_o so_o of_o the_o rest_n because_o each_o of_o they_o require_v a_o distinct_a and_o several_a revelation_n from_o the_o other_o for_o christ_n may_v have_v be_v bear_v and_o yet_o not_o die_v upon_o the_o cross_n and_o he_o may_v have_v die_v and_o yet_o not_o rise_v the_o three_o day_n from_o death_n to_o life_n but_o those_o other_o truth_n define_v by_o the_o church_n as_o the_o unity_n of_o christ_n person_n against_o nestorius_n the_o distinction_n of_o his_o two_o nature_n against_o sergius_n pyrrhus_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o to_o be_v call_v article_n because_o they_o be_v sufficient_o contain_v in_o other_o and_o deduce_v out_o of_o they_o other_o divine_n give_v other_o definition_n of_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n which_o may_v also_o well_o stand_v with_o this_o of_o s._n thomas_n which_o i_o follow_v as_o the_o more_o common_a but_o all_o agree_v in_o this_o that_o though_o every_o article_n be_v a_o proposition_n of_o faith_n yet_o every_o proposition_n be_v not_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n 5._o and_o hereupon_o we_o teach_v that_o for_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o church_n can_v make_v none_o as_o she_o can_v write_v a_o canonical_a book_n of_o scripture_n but_o that_o belong_v only_o to_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n or_o rather_o have_v be_v full_o and_o perfect_o perform_v by_o they_o to_o who_o those_o article_n be_v immediate_o reveal_v by_o god_n whereof_o they_o deliver_v part_n by_o writing_n and_o part_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n to_o their_o posterity_n the_o church_n so_o as_o now_o there_o need_v not_o any_o new_a and_o particular_a revelation_n but_o out_o of_o those_o already_o make_v to_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n which_o be_v all_o lay_v up_o in_o the_o treasury_n of_o the_o church_n as_o a_o pawn_n or_o depositum_fw-la as_o s._n paul_n call_v it_o other_o truth_n be_v draw_v the_o holy_a church_n and_o true_a spouse_n of_o christ_n ever_o keep_v this_o precious_a treasure_n with_o continual_a care_n and_o vigilancy_n and_o dispense_n the_o same_o faithful_o to_o her_o child_n as_o need_n require_v whensoever_o any_o haeretique_n or_o other_o enemy_n endeavour_v to_o corrupt_v or_o pervert_v she_o call_v her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n together_o to_o examine_v the_o matter_n be_v infallible_o assist_v by_o that_o spirit_n of_o truth_n which_o our_o saviour_n promise_v to_o be_v always_o with_o his_o disciple_n that_o be_v with_o his_o church_n she_o declare_v what_o be_v true_a and_o what_o false_a as_o agree_v or_o disagree_v with_o or_o from_o that_o doctrine_n which_o she_o have_v receive_v from_o her_o father_n that_o be_v prophet_n and_o apostle_n upon_o who_o as_o upon_o a_o spiritual_a foundation_n she_o be_v strong_o build_v according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n superedificaii_fw-la supra_fw-la fundamentum_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la &_o prophetarum_fw-la 20._o ephes_n 2_o 20._o build_v upon_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n the_o very_a word_n fundamentum_fw-la foundation_n also_o show_v that_o her_o doctrine_n be_v not_o of_o her_o own_o invention_n or_o frame_n but_o ground_v on_o they_o from_o who_o she_o receive_v it_o and_o that_o she_o have_v not_o any_o which_o she_o receive_v not_o from_o they_o for_o as_o in_o a_o house_n or_o building_n there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o stone_n or_o piece_n of_o timber_n which_o rest_v not_o upon_o the_o foundation_n so_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o point_n which_o be_v not_o ground_v or_o contain_v in_o that_o which_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 27._o commonit_fw-la adver_v haer_fw-mi cap._n 27._o which_o truth_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n in_o like_a sort_n deduce_v out_o of_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la use_v by_o s._n paul_n to_o timothee_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la depositum_fw-la say_v he_o id_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la tibi_fw-la creditum_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la quod_fw-la a_o te_fw-la inventum_fw-la quod_fw-la accepisti_fw-la non_fw-la quod_fw-la excogitasti_fw-la rem_fw-la non_fw-la ingenij_fw-la sed_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la non_fw-la usurpationis_fw-la privatae_fw-la sed_fw-la publica_fw-la traditionis_fw-la rem_fw-la ad_fw-la te_fw-la perductam_fw-la non_fw-la a_o te_fw-la prolatam_fw-la in_fw-la qua_fw-la non_fw-la auctor_fw-la debes_fw-la esse_fw-la sed_fw-la custos_fw-la non_fw-la institutor_fw-la sed_fw-la sectator_n non_fw-la ducens_fw-la sed_fw-la sequens_fw-la what_o be_v a_o depositum_fw-la it_o be_v that_o which_o thou_o be_v trust_v with_o not_o that_o which_o be_v find_v by_o thou_o that_o which_o thou_o have_v receive_v not_o that_o which_o thou_o have_v seek_v out_o a_o thing_n not_o of_o wit_n that_o be_v not_o of_o thy_o own_o invent_v but_o of_o learning_n that_o be_v which_o be_v learn_v not_o of_o private_a usurpation_n but_o public_a tradition_n a_o thing_n bring_v to_o thou_o not_o bring_v forth_o by_o thou_o wherein_o
thou_o be_v not_o to_o be_v the_o author_n but_o the_o keeper_n not_o the_o institutor_n but_o a_o scholar_n not_o leadinge_n but_o follow_v so_o as_o by_o timothee_n the_o whole_a church_n be_v understand_v as_o the_o same_o author_n say_v or_o especial_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o pastor_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o church_n creat_v not_o any_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o teach_v only_o that_o which_o she_o have_v learn_v of_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 6._o from_o which_o follow_v that_o other_o thing_n which_o i_o mean_v to_o tell_v the_o knight_n for_o his_o learning_n which_o also_o i_o touch_v before_o in_o a_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o point_n of_o doctrine_n before_o in_o controversy_n and_o undefined_a come_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n the_o doctrine_n be_v not_o therefore_o new_a because_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la or_o matter_n of_o faith_n now_o which_o it_o be_v not_o before_o as_o he_o most_o false_o and_o fond_o suppose_v for_o a_o undoubted_a truth_n and_o upon_o this_o his_o own_o idle_a fancy_n build_v many_o goodly_a argument_n like_v so_o many_o castle_n in_o the_o air_n for_o out_o of_o this_o he_o think_v it_o to_o follow_v that_o we_o vary_v in_o our_o doctrine_n that_o because_o forsooth_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n now_o the_o fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o before_o and_o whereof_o doctor_n do_v dispute_v which_o see_v we_o may_v not_o now_o doubt_v of_o therefore_o the_o faith_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n alter_v but_o this_o show_v nothing_o but_o the_o poorness_n of_o his_o judgement_n for_o by_o this_o he_o may_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n as_o it_o rise_v high_a and_o high_o and_o by_o spread_v his_o beam_n give_v light_n in_o some_o place_n att_o noon_n where_o it_o do_v not_o in_o the_o morning_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v change_v in_o itself_o than_o which_o what_o can_v be_v more_o absurd_a 7._o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o sun_n 6.9_o cant._n 6.9_o appear_v by_o that_o place_n of_o the_o canticle_n quae_fw-la est_fw-la ista_fw-la quae_fw-la progreditur_fw-la quasi_fw-la aurora_fw-la consurgens_fw-la pulchra_fw-la ut_fw-la luna_fw-la electa_fw-la ut_fw-la sol_fw-la terribilis_fw-la ut_fw-la castrorum_fw-la acies_fw-la ordinata_fw-la who_o be_v she_o that_o go_v forward_o as_o the_o morning_n rise_v fair_a as_o the_o moon_n choose_v as_o the_o sun_n terrible_a as_o a_o order_a army_n of_o tent_n which_o word_v no_o man_n ever_o doubt_v to_o be_v literal_o understand_v of_o the_o church_n even_o then_o as_o the_o sun_n may_v go_v spread_v his_o beam_n more_o and_o more_o with_o out_z increase_n or_o change_v of_o it_o own_o light_n in_o itself_o so_o may_v the_o church_n go_v more_o and_o more_o spread_v the_o beam_n of_o her_o divine_a faith_n with_o out_o increase_v or_o alteration_n of_o the_o faith_n in_o itself_o and_o as_o the_o sun_n beam_n may_v shine_v in_o a_o valley_n or_o room_n of_o a_o house_n where_o it_o do_v not_o shine_v before_o so_o may_v the_o church_n spread_v the_o light_n of_o her_o faith_n show_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n which_o before_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o be_v or_o which_o though_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o itself_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o us._n 8._o for_o more_o declaration_n whereof_o i_o may_v yet_o bring_v another_o more_o scholarly_o example_n which_o be_v of_o the_o principle_n of_o several_a science_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o premise_n in_o demonstrative_a argument_n of_o those_o science_n in_o which_o principle_n or_o premise_n be_v contain_v diverse_a truth_n which_o may_v be_v draw_v out_o of_o they_o by_o many_o several_a conclusion_n one_o follow_v of_o another_o these_o conclusion_n be_v truth_n in_o themselves_o before_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o appear_v unto_o i_o till_o i_o see_v the_o connexion_n they_o have_v with_o the_o premise_n and_o how_o they_o be_v contain_v in_o they_o and_o by_o the_o many_o several_a conclusion_n which_o be_v so_o draw_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o principle_n and_o premise_n do_v more_o show_v itself_o but_o not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o change_v in_o itself_o thereby_o even_o so_o we_o say_v in_o the_o prime_a principle_n of_o our_o faith_n reveal_v immediate_o to_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n and_o by_o they_o deliver_v unto_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v all_o truth_n which_o any_o way_n belong_v to_o our_o faith_n and_o whereby_o the_o church_n have_v in_o succeed_a age_n destroy_v several_a heresy_n as_o they_o have_v rise_v without_o create_v or_o coin_v new_a faith_n or_o alter_v the_o old_a but_o out_o of_o the_o old_a ground_n and_o premise_n draw_v those_o conclusion_n which_o destroy_v new_a heresy_n and_o show_v they_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o ancient_a faith_n and_o in_o that_o manner_n the_o church_n have_v grow_v and_o increase_v in_o knowledge_n by_o degree_n and_o shall_v still_o go_v grow_v and_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 6._o greg._n moral_a lib._n 9_o cap_n 6._o as_o show_v s._n greg._n his_o discourse_n upon_o those_o word_n of_o job._n qui_fw-la facit_fw-la arcturum_fw-la &_o oriana_n &_o hyadas_n etc._n etc._n where_o he_o say_v thus_o vrgente_n mundi_fw-la sine_fw-la superna_fw-la scientia_fw-la proficit_fw-la &_o largius_fw-la cum_fw-la tempore_fw-la excrescit_fw-la as_o the_o world_n draw_v to_o a_o end_n the_o heavenly_a knowledge_n profit_v and_o with_o time_n increase_v wherein_o also_o she_o resemble_v our_o b._n saviour_n her_o chief_a lord_n and_o heavenly_a spouse_n who_o though_o in_o grace_n and_o knowlegde_v he_o never_o receive_v the_o least_o increase_n from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o his_o conception_n 2.52_o luc_n 2.52_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v after_o proficiebat_fw-la sapientia_fw-la &_o aetate_fw-la &_o gratia_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o homines_fw-la to_o wit_n because_o he_o show_v it_o more_o in_o his_o word_n and_o action_n 9_o this_o be_v far_a confirm_v by_o the_o manner_n and_o practice_n which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n ever_o observe_v in_o and_o out_o of_o counsel_n in_o prove_v or_o define_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o wit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n belief_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o search_n whereof_o the_o holy_a church_n join_v humane_a industry_n with_o god_n holy_a grace_n and_o assistance_n for_o when_o any_o question_n or_o doubt_v of_o faith_n arise_v particular_a doctor_n several_o dispute_v and_o write_v thereof_o then_o if_o far_o need_n require_v it_o the_o holy_a church_n gather_v together_o her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n in_o a_o council_n to_o examine_v and_o discuss_v the_o matter_n more_o full_o as_o in_o that_o first_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n 15.6_o act._n 15.6_o whereof_o the_o scripture_n say_v conueneruntque_fw-la apostoli_fw-la &_o seniores_fw-la videre_fw-la de_fw-la verbo_fw-la hoc_fw-la the_o apostle_n ad_fw-la ancient_n assemble_v to_o consider_v of_o this_o word_n the_o pastor_n come_v so_o together_o and_o have_v the_o presence_n of_o our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o promise_n and_o his_o holy_a spirit_n out_o of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a scripture_n and_o tradition_n join_v therewith_o the_o authoritye_n and_o interpretation_n of_o holy_a father_n and_o doctor_n out_o of_o praecedent_a time_n she_o do_v infallible_o resolve_v and_o determine_v the_o matter_n not_o as_o new_o but_o as_o ancient_a orthodox_n and_o derive_v from_o her_o forefather_n make_v that_o which_o be_v ever_o in_o itself_o a_o divine_a truth_n so_o to_o appear_v unto_o we_o that_o now_o we_o may_v not_o make_v far_a question_n thereof_o 10._o seq_n vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 27.28.29_o &_o seq_n and_o this_o be_v the_o common_a doctrine_n deliver_v by_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n i_o think_v it_o not_o amiss_o somewhat_o far_o to_o confirm_v and_o authorise_v the_o same_o by_o a_o excellent_a discourse_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o ancient_a father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n not_o recite_v his_o very_a word_n because_o it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o but_o only_o the_o substance_n which_o be_v this_o have_v prove_v by_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la out_o of_o s._n paul_n that_o a_o pastor_n priest_n preacher_n or_o doctor_n there_o mean_v by_o timothee_n must_v only_o deliver_v the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v deposit_v with_o he_o or_o in_o his_o hand_n not_o find_v out_o by_o he_o which_o he_o have_v receive_v not_o invent_v whereof_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v author_n or_o beginner_n but_o the_o keeper_n or_o guardian_n he_o say_v that_o if_o such_o a_o man_n have_v ability_n for_o it_o he_o may_v like_v another_o beseleel_n adorn_v set_v out_o and_o grace_v the_o precious_a jewel_n of_o divine_a faith_n by_o expound_v more_o clear_o that_o which_o before_o be_v believe_v more_o
own_o author_n and_o why_o may_v not_o he_o do_v the_o like_a to_o we_o for_o the_o reason_n be_v clean_o different_a they_o have_v no_o public_a authority_n which_o can_v define_v what_o be_v faith_n and_o what_o not_o but_o that_o be_v leave_v not_o only_o to_o every_o private_a doctor_n or_o minister_n but_o to_o every_o private_a lay_v man_n and_o woman_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o convince_a proof_n to_o urge_v one_o particular_a protestant_a doctor_n be_v authority_n against_o another_o there_o be_v not_o two_o among_o they_o of_o one_o opinion_n whole_o much_o less_o one_o bind_v to_o answer_n for_o the_o other_o yet_o we_o be_v fain_o and_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n use_v it_o because_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o may_v urge_v they_o authority_n of_o church_n they_o have_v none_o scripture_n they_o have_v indeed_o but_o so_o mangle_v corrupt_a pervert_v by_o translation_n and_o misinterpret_v according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n that_o as_o they_o have_v it_o it_o be_v as_o good_a as_o nothing_o tradition_n they_o have_v none_o counsel_n they_o have_v not_o any_o among_o themselves_o nor_o will_v stand_v to_o we_o consent_v of_o father_n or_o schoolman_n they_o care_v not_o for_o consent_v of_o doctor_n they_o have_v not_o among_o themselves_o nor_o can_v have_v without_o a_o head_n neither_o if_o they_o have_v will_v any_o man_n think_v himself_o more_o bind_v by_o that_o then_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n what_o then_o be_v leave_v but_o to_o urge_v they_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o such_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v for_o their_o brethren_n but_o with_o we_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a for_o we_o have_v diverse_a infallible_a rule_n of_o faith_n though_o all_o with_o some_o reference_n to_o one_o principal_a rule_n as_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n which_o be_v out_o of_o controversy_n tradition_n or_o common_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n counsel_n either_o general_a or_o particular_a confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a the_o authority_n of_o that_o holy_a see_v itself_o define_v ex_fw-la cathedra_fw-la though_o without_o either_o general_a or_o particular_a council_n the_o common_a and_o uniform_a consent_n of_o ancient_a father_n or_o modern_a doctor_n and_o schoolman_n deliver_v any_o thing_n unto_o we_o as_o matter_n of_o faith_n 15._o all_o these_o six_o rule_n of_o faith_n we_o acknowledge_v wherewith_o let_v this_o knight_n or_o any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n urge_v we_o we_o flinch_v not_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o authority_n but_o be_v ready_a to_o make_v good_a whatsoever_o be_v teach_v any_o of_o these_o way_n what_o folly_n then_o be_v it_o for_o a_o man_n to_o stand_v urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o private_a man_n who_o may_v straggle_v out_o from_o the_o rest_n though_o to_o go_v far_o than_o we_o need_v in_o such_o great_a liberty_n as_o we_o give_v protestant_n we_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o single_a doctor_n in_o a_o point_n wherein_o he_o be_v not_o contradict_v by_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n or_o which_o other_o catholic_n do_v not_o whole_o disavow_v what_o more_o can_v a_o man_n desire_n and_o yet_o again_o though_o the_o knight_n or_o any_o other_o protestant_n shall_v bring_v such_o a_o single_a author_n for_o his_o opinion_n yet_o be_v there_o such_o a_o main_a difference_n between_o he_o and_o they_o that_o no_o protestant_n can_v just_o plead_v that_o single_a catholic_a author_n to_o be_v whole_o of_o his_o opinion_n or_o belief_n in_o that_o point_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o other_o wherein_o they_o differ_v for_o the_o protestant_n hold_v his_o doctrine_n stiff_o not_o mean_v in_o any_o case_n or_o for_o any_o authority_n to_o change_v or_o leave_v it_o which_o be_v it_o that_o that_o make_v a_o man_n proper_o a_o haeretique_n whereas_o the_o catholic_a ever_o 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donatist_n who_o justify_v themselves_o as_o you_o sir_n knight_n justify_v your_o church_n much_o more_o of_o this_o may_v be_v say_v but_o this_o may_v serve_v to_o show_v you_o not_o to_o be_v in_o your_o right_a wit_n that_o brag_v of_o that_o which_o you_o ought_v most_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o and_o account_n that_o to_o make_v for_o you_o which_o make_v most_o against_o you_o 9_o for_o that_o which_o you_o talk_v of_o go_v out_o of_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o you_o will_v have_v man_n understand_v the_o catholic_a church_n as_o if_o you_o be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o from_o she_o do_v but_o once_o show_v we_o that_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o the_o sripture_n speak_v of_o be_v ever_o the_o true_a church_n and_o then_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v say_v some_o what_o for_o your_o church_n departure_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o impudence_n itself_o can_v deny_v to_o have_v be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v bold_a indeed_o to_o say_v that_o babylon_n be_v a_o true_a church_n wherewith_o sometime_o the_o faithful_a do_v communicate_v but_o that_o after_o it_o be_v more_o deprave_a the_o faithful_a be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o of_o it_o but_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o where_o you_o read_v this_o what_o father_n what_o doctor_n what_o man_n ever_o take_v babylon_n in_o scripture_n to_o be_v use_v for_o the_o name_n of_o the_o true_a church_n s._n peter_n in_o one_o of_o his_o epistle_n speak_v of_o rome_n by_o the_o name_n of_o babylon_n out_o of_o which_o a_o multitude_n of_o father_n and_o doctor_n prove_v that_o saint_n peter_n be_v at_o rome_n and_o now_o you_o forsooth_o bring_v some_o of_o they_o cite_v by_o our_o author_n to_o that_o purpose_n to_o prove_v that_o by_o babylon_n be_v understand_v the_o true_a church_n abuse_v all_o those_o father_n most_o egregious_o among_o all_o who_o never_o one_o mean_v any_o such_o matter_n but_o only_o by_o babylon_n understand_v the_o temporal_a state_n and_o government_n of_o the_o city_n 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we_o and_o yet_o reformation_n deny_v by_o the_o pope_n both_o which_o be_v easy_o answer_v first_o by_o ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o his_o purpose_n suppose_v it_o be_v true_a do_v this_o show_n his_o church_n to_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a or_o we_o to_o have_v be_v at_o any_o time_n not_o visible_a he_o be_v not_o to_o stand_v upon_o matter_n of_o contention_n who_o be_v cause_n or_o not_o cause_v thereof_o or_o who_o will_v have_v mend_v who_o not_o for_o the_o error_n in_o faith_n which_o he_o seem_v to_o tax_v â—s_n withal_o in_o his_o three_o section_n if_o he_o can_v prove_v they_o he_o say_v somewhat_o indeed_o though_o yet_o not_o so_o full_o to_o his_o purpose_n for_o though_o he_o prove_v we_o to_o have_v have_v some_o error_n it_o do_v not_o so_o present_o follow_v that_o they_o of_o his_o side_n have_v have_v none_o or_o that_o therefore_o their_o church_n have_v be_v ever_o visible_a there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o require_v to_o it_o then_o so_o and_o 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faithful_a people_n have_v complain_v of_o the_o coldness_n of_o catholic_n in_o that_o they_o do_v not_o communicate_v so_o fervent_o and_o frequent_o as_o they_o do_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n not_o of_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n when_o there_o be_v none_o to_o communicate_v this_o be_v therefore_o also_o sir_n humphrey-like_a to_o say_v one_o thing_n for_o another_o now_o for_o the_o translation_n of_o scripture_n you_o triumph_v as_o if_o those_o of_o douai_n confess_v that_o they_o do_v it_o importunitate_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la and_o for_o this_o you_o be_v fain_o to_o be_v behold_v to_o casaubon_n epistle_n to_o peron_n which_o you_o cite_v whereas_o you_o may_v have_v look_v yourself_o in_o the_o book_n better_o than_o casaubon_n who_o be_v a_o french_a man_n and_o be_v suppose_v not_o to_o understand_v english_a so_o well_o as_o you_o but_o it_o may_v be_v you_o look_v in_o the_o book_n and_o find_v casaubon_n tell_v a_o untruth_n you_o will_v tell_v it_o after_o he_o 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permit_v in_o former_a time_n no_o more_o than_o they_o be_v now_o how_o near_o then_o do_v they_o come_v 6._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o my_o l._n cook_n be_v report's_n that_o our_o catholic_n do_v frequent_v your_o church_n till_o the_o eleven_o year_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n i_o answer_v that_o for_o my_o lo_o cook_n i_o have_v not_o to_o meddle_v with_o he_o 16._o answ_n to_o cook_n report_v cap._n 16._o neither_o need_v i_o he_o be_v so_o sound_o answer_v by_o a_o catholic_a divine_a and_o so_o expose_v to_o the_o scorn_n of_o the_o world_n for_o his_o notorious_a falsehood_n and_o even_o in_o this_o particular_a among_o other_o that_o he_o never_o have_v the_o hart_n or_o face_n to_o make_v answer_n for_o himself_o and_o yet_o now_o you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o take_v up_o his_o false_a tale_n and_o tell_v they_o again_o afresh_o now_o after_o this_o for_o a_o leaf_n together_o you_o talk_v your_o ordinary_a fustian_n that_o many_o catholic_n hold_v this_o and_o that_o and_o other_o point_n of_o your_o doctrine_n though_o they_o dare_v not_o communicate_v open_o with_o you_o for_o why_o i_o pray_v shall_v they_o not_o dare_v here_o in_o england_n where_o they_o be_v compel_v thereunto_o but_o i_o let_v this_o pass_n as_o be_v all_o your_o own_o discourse_n except_o only_o one_o thing_n out_o of_o câ—sterus_n who_o say_v that_o a_o priest_n do_v sin_n more_o grievous_o in_o marry_v a_o wife_n then_o keep_v a_o concubine_n which_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v for_o a_o great_a error_n to_o which_o i_o say_v that_o in_o your_o minister_n who_o be_v mere_a lie_v man_n and_o may_v marry_v as_o free_o as_o any_o body_n else_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sin_n to_o have_v a_o concubine_n then_o to_o marry_v nay_o to_o marry_v be_v no_o sin_n but_o in_o priest_n who_o can_v marry_v it_o be_v a_o great_a sin_n to_o marry_v for_o it_o be_v no_o marriage_n and_o in_o this_o sir_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o whether_o it_o will_v not_o be_v a_o 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die_v he_o set_v the_o merit_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o gap_n to_o stand_v between_o god_n judgement_n and_o his_o sin_n i_o answer_v sir_n humphrey_n that_o if_o you_o can_v bring_v a_o catholic_a that_o do_v not_o do_v so_o we_o will_v yield_v bishop_n gardiner_n to_o have_v die_v a_o protestant_n and_o so_o of_o bellarmine_n who_o you_o make_v man_n believe_v to_o have_v die_v a_o protestant_n because_o he_o crave_v pardon_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o god_n not_o as_o a_o valewer_n of_o merit_n but_o as_o a_o giver_n of_o mercy_n for_o by_o this_o rule_n bellarmine_n shall_v not_o only_o have_v die_v but_o also_o live_v a_o protestant_n for_o as_o often_o as_o he_o say_v mass_n which_o be_v every_o day_n throughout_o the_o year_n that_o he_o be_v able_a for_o 40._o year_n together_o at_o least_o before_o his_o death_n he_o say_v those_o word_n and_o so_o do_v every_o catholic_a priest_n as_o oft_o as_o he_o say_v mass_n for_o they_o be_v in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n signifiâ—â—sti_n cap_n signifiâ—â—sti_n which_o be_v never_o change_v but_o be_v always_o the_o same_o though_o the_o epistle_n ghospell_n and_o prayer_n change_v according_a to_o the_o several_a time_n and_o feast_n what_o a_o madness_n than_o be_v it_o here_o hence_o to_o make_v bellarmine_n a_o protestant_n but_o it_o be_v like_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o inference_n 8._o but_o you_o have_v another_o thing_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n which_o be_v that_o he_o say_v it_o be_v most_o safe_a to_o put_v trust_n in_o the_o only_a mercy_n and_o goodness_n of_o god_n it_o be_v true_a bellarmine_n say_v so_o but_o yet_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o former_a part_n of_o the_o sentence_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o reason_n and_o rule_v of_o the_o late_a part_n which_o be_v this_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o own_o justice_n and_o peril_n of_o vain_a glory_n it_o be_v most_o safe_a etc._n etc._n wherein_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v what_o there_o be_v to_o make_v bellarmine_n a_o protestant_n for_o he_o do_v not_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o confidence_n to_o be_v place_v in_o our_o good_a work_n proceed_v from_o god_n grace_n as_o you_o protestant_n do_v for_o he_o have_v prove_v in_o the_o same_o chapter_n out_o of_o scripture_n and_o father_n that_o there_o may_v but_o there_o he_o say_v withal_o that_o because_o we_o know_v not_o whether_o we_o have_v such_o good_a work_n or_o no_o or_o though_o perhaps_o we_o know_v we_o have_v yet_o for_o fear_n of_o vain_a glory_n it_o be_v the_o better_a way_n to_o turn_v away_o our_o eye_n from_o they_o and_o look_v only_o upon_o god_n mercy_n which_o he_o prove_v by_o many_o prayer_n which_o the_o church_n use_v in_o that_o manner_n and_o among_o other_o this_o very_a prayer_n whereby_o you_o gather_v he_o to_o be_v a_o protestant_n which_o as_o he_o use_v in_o his_o sickness_n so_o he_o teach_v in_o health_n how_o it_o be_v to_o be_v use_v without_o danger_n of_o protestantisme_n or_o any_o other_o such_o error_n but_o what_o do_v this_o take_v away_o all_o merit_n of_o god_n work_n or_o all_o confidence_n in_o they_o nothing_o less_o good_a sir_n knight_n as_o any_o man_n may_v see_v without_o far_a declaration_n well_o but_o though_o you_o can_v make_v bishop_n gardner_n or_o bellarmine-protestants_a 1._o lib._n 2._o the_o iustif_a cap._n 1._o yet_o you_o will_v make_v pighius_fw-la a_o caluinist_n in_o the_o point_n of_o justification_n but_o bellarmine_n even_o there_o where_o you_o cite_v he_o clear_v pighius_fw-la though_o not_o from_o all_o error_n yet_o from_o that_o imputation_n of_o caluinisme_n in_o two_o respect_n the_o one_o in_o that_o his_o opinion_n be_v not_o whole_o the_o same_o with_o caluin_n for_o he_o
brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n etc._n etc._n for_o this_o be_v your_o faith_n proper_o as_o you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n or_o church_n show_v your_o doctrine_n in_o all_o these_o point_n that_o be_v your_o denial_n of_o they_o to_o have_v be_v ancient_o and_o universal_o teach_v or_o even_o before_o luther_n time_n and_o you_o have_v say_v something_o which_o you_o not_o do_v i_o can_v but_o wonder_v to_o see_v you_o so_o silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o use_v your_o own_o word_n as_o to_o think_v you_o have_v say_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n we_o ask_v you_o the_o antiquity_n of_o your_o doctrine_n that_o be_v wherein_o you_o disagree_v from_o we_o and_o you_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o so_o much_o as_o agree_v with_o we_o which_o be_v to_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o own_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o shape_n yourselves_o a_o religion_n out_o of_o we_o and_o you_o plead_v the_o antiquity_n of_o we_o but_o that_o will_v not_o serve_v your_o turn_n that_o shape_n which_o you_o give_v it_o be_v the_o form_n and_o essence_n of_o your_o religion_n so_o long_o then_o as_o that_o be_v new_a your_o religion_n be_v new_a neither_o can_v you_o say_v the_o same_o of_o our_o point_n define_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v by_o ask_v where_o our_o church_n wasâ—_n where_o our_o trent_n doctrine_n and_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a creed_n be_v receive_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la before_o luther_n this_o you_o can_v likewise_o say_v to_o we_o for_o the_o define_n make_v not_o the_o doctrine_n new_a but_o bind_v man_n by_o authority_n of_o a_o council_n to_o believe_v what_o they_o do_v believe_v plain_o by_o tradition_n 32._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 32._o as_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v that_o the_o church_n by_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o counsel_n have_v do_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o what_o she_o have_v before_o receive_v by_o tradition_n only_o she_o shall_v also_o by_o writing_n consign_v to_o posterity_n nec_fw-la quicquam_fw-la conciliorum_fw-la suorum_fw-la decretis_fw-la catholica_fw-la perfecit_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la nisi_fw-la ut_fw-la quod_fw-la prius_fw-la a_o majoribus_fw-la sola_fw-la traditione_n susceperat_fw-la hoc_fw-la deinde_fw-la posteris_fw-la etiam_fw-la per_fw-la scripturae_fw-la chirographum_fw-la consignaret_fw-la of_o which_o see_v more_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n here_o 19_o after_o this_o you_o ask_v again_o if_o your_o doctrine_n lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o say_v you_o no_o romanist_n can_v deny_v if_o it_o become_v hide_v as_o good_a corn_n cover_v with_o chaff_n or_o as_o fine_a gold_n overlay_v with_o a_o great_a quantity_n of_o dross_n whether_o it_o must_v be_v therefore_o new_a and_o unknown_a because_o the_o corn_n be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n the_o gold_n from_o the_o dross_n before_o luther_n time_n and_o than_o you_o bid_v we_o because_o we_o call_v your_o doctrine_n novelty_n to_o remove_v the_o three_o creed_n the_o two_o sacrament_n the_o 22._o canonical_a book_n the_o 4._o first_o general_n counsel_n apostolical_a tradition_n and_o see_v whether_o our_o church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o poor_a and_o senseless_a carcase_n this_o be_v your_o learned_a discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v ask_v first_n what_o romanist_n do_v acknowledge_v your_o doctrine_n to_o have_v lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v ever_o any_o man_n write_v so_o do_v ever_o any_o man_n say_v so_o unto_o you_o nay_o what_o romanist_n have_v ever_o forbear_v upon_o occasion_n offer_v to_o deny_v and_o deny_v it_o again_o you_o teach_v not_o only_o those_o be_v two_o but_o that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n which_o what_o romanist_n ever_o acknowledge_v to_o have_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n one_o of_o your_o sacrament_n be_v a_o empty_a piece_n of_o bread_n and_o a_o sup_v of_o wine_n which_o what_o catholic_n will_v ever_o say_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n you_o allow_v 4._o counsel_n and_o but_o 4._o you_o allow_v 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o but_o 22._o will_n any_o catholic_a ever_o allow_v this_o to_o have_v be_v catholic_a doctrine_n take_v away_o your_o yet_o and_o then_o it_o may_v pass_v but_o than_o you_o take_v away_o your_o religion_n but_o here_o be_v one_o thing_n that_o give_v i_o much_o cause_n of_o wonder_n which_o be_v that_o you_o talk_v of_o tradition_n as_o distinct_a from_o scripture_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n that_o i_o do_v little_o expect_v from_o a_o man_n of_o your_o profession_n and_o i_o ever_o take_v you_o to_o be_v so_o fall_v out_o with_o they_o that_o you_o make_v the_o denial_n of_o they_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o your_o religion_n and_o that_o therefore_o you_o will_v not_o endure_v the_o word_n tradition_n even_o in_o holy_a scripture_n where_o it_o may_v be_v take_v in_o a_o good_a sense_n but_o always_o translate_v or_o rather_o falsify_v it_o 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to_o cook_n rep_v ep_v dedicat_fw-la nu_fw-la 20._o 20._o my_o lord_n cook_n show_v himself_o somewhat_o wise_a when_o ask_v himself_o the_o question_n which_o we_o ask_v you_o to_o wit_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n he_o answer_v it_o make_v no_o great_a matter_n where_o it_o be_v so_o he_o be_v certain_a it_o be_v confess_v thereby_o that_o his_o church_n be_v indeed_o invisible_a but_o yet_o in_o be_v which_o because_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o persuade_v any_o man_n he_o bring_v a_o fine_a similitude_n of_o a_o wedge_n of_o gold_n dissolve_v and_o mix_v with_o brass_n tin_n and_o other_o metal_n which_o he_o say_v do_v not_o therefore_o loose_v his_o nature_n but_o remain_v gold_n though_o we_o can_v not_o determine_v in_o what_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n it_o be_v contain_v this_o be_v somewhat_o more_o like_a for_o a_o man_n by_o such_o a_o similitude_n to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o church_n may_v subsist_v invisible_o for_o the_o which_o nevertheless_o a_o catholic_a divine_a tell_v he_o his_o own_o very_o sound_o but_o for_o you_o sir_n knight_n to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n by_o such_o a_o similitude_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v believe_v unless_o a_o man_n do_v see_v it_o in_o print_n you_o labour_v to_o prove_v your_o church_n to_o have_v be_v visible_a before_o luther_n time_n and_o yet_o you_o confess_v she_o to_o have_v begin_v her_o visibility_n by_o luther_n for_o thus_o you_o ask_v be_v there_o no_o good_a corn_n in_o the_o granary_n of_o the_o church_n because_o for_o many_o year_n space_n till_o luther_n day_n it_o be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n to_o sever_v the_o corn_n from_o the_o chaff_n wherewith_o it_o be_v cover_v be_v to_o make_v it_o visible_a if_o then_o luther_n do_v first_o sever_v it_o he_o
first_o make_v she_o visible_a which_o be_v that_o we_o desire_v and_o so_o sir_n you_o have_v spin_a a_o fair_a thread_n you_o will_v fain_o make_v your_o church_n visible_a before_o luther_n and_o you_o make_v it_o invisible_a you_o look_v well_o about_o you_o mean_v while_n now_o that_o which_o you_o say_v next_o of_o take_v away_o the_o 3._o creed_n which_o you_o profess_v two_o sacrament_n 4._o counsel_n and_o 22._o book_n of_o scripture_n without_o which_o our_o church_n will_v be_v a_o poor_a senseless_a carcase_n be_v most_o foolish_a for_o who_o do_v speak_v of_o take_v they_o away_o who_o do_v say_v they_o be_v you_o you_o will_v not_o say_v yourself_o but_o you_o have_v they_o from_o we_o what_o then_o do_v you_o talk_v of_o take_v they_o away_o and_o whereas_o you_o be_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o we_o now_o style_v they_o chaff_n and_o new_a heresy_n it_o be_v to_o shameless_a a_o untruth_n for_o any_o man_n to_o tell_v but_o yourself_o and_o therefore_o deserve_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v sir_n humphrey_n lind'_v you_o understand_v my_o meaning_n sir_n 21._o one_o little_a thing_n more_o there_o be_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v that_o whereas_o some_o of_o we_o have_v term_v your_o religion_n negative_a in_o regard_n it_o consist_v most_o in_o denial_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o we_o teach_v as_o they_o may_v well_o call_v it_o you_o will_v retort_v that_o term_n upon_o we_o because_o we_o deny_v many_o thing_n which_o you_o affirm_v but_o this_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n of_o any_o moment_n for_o they_o who_o call_v your_o religion_n negative_a do_v not_o mean_v that_o you_o do_v not_o teach_v any_o positive_a erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o most_o of_o your_o doctrine_n i_o mean_v that_o which_o be_v proper_o you_o not_o take_v from_o we_o be_v negative_a and_o even_o those_o affirmative_a proposition_n which_o you_o teach_v if_o you_o teach_v any_o be_v but_o contradiction_n of_o other_o thing_n which_o we_o teach_v be_v 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say_v out_o of_o this_o book_n and_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o first_o the_o knight_n do_v not_o show_v we_o any_o authority_n for_o this_o book_n or_o that_o s._n anselme_n have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o it_o nor_o tell_v we_o of_o any_o ancient_a edition_n before_o the_o year_n 1556._o but_o only_a a_o mention_n thereof_o by_o cassâ—â—der_n a_o classical_a author_n indeed_o and_o of_o the_o first_o class_n in_o the_o index_n librorum_fw-la prohibitorum_fw-la in_o a_o appendix_n alsoe_o to_o a_o forbid_a book_n false_o call_v io._n roffensis_n de_fw-fr fiducia_fw-la &_o misericordia_fw-la dei_fw-la than_o which_o he_o can_v have_v say_v nothing_o more_o to_o disgrace_v it_o 2._o beside_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la of_o the_o spanish_a inquisition_n will_v those_o word_n of_o comfort_n as_o he_o call_v they_o speak_v by_o the_o priest_n to_o be_v blot_v out_o which_o be_v answer_n enough_o see_v the_o knight_n be_v to_o 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this_o point_n alone_o nor_o do_v campian_n mean_a that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o man_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o any_o one_o of_o your_o erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o house_n village_n or_o city_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o your_o whole_a faith_n and_o religion_n or_o make_v the_o same_o church_n with_o you_o and_o for_o the_o mangling_fw-mi and_o raze_v one_o of_o aelfrick_n latin_a epistle_n wherewith_o you_o charge_v we_o first_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o like_a by_o this_o that_o he_o say_v in_o his_o homily_n wherewith_o you_o say_v the_o epistle_n agree_v that_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n against_o we_o and_o if_o there_o be_v know_v you_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o our_o fashion_n to_o deal_v so_o with_o author_n but_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n we_o do_v what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v public_o as_o have_v authority_n and_o know_v what_o we_o do_v correct_v modern_a author_n in_o what_o 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perhaps_o because_o in_o his_o opinion_n those_o word_n do_v not_o sufficient_o of_o themselves_o prove_v the_o verity_n of_o christ_n presence_n that_o therefore_o they_o do_v not_o sufficient_o cause_v it_o but_o if_o you_o think_v so_o as_o you_o seem_v you_o be_v much_o mistake_v for_o those_o be_v two_o different_a thing_n for_o example_n in_o baptism_n the_o word_n i_o baptize_v thou_o etc._n etc._n beside_o the_o cleanse_n of_o the_o soul_n from_o sin_n original_a &_o actual_a cause_n also_o the_o remission_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n &_o imprint_v a_o spiritual_a character_n in_o the_o soul_n though_o these_o effect_n can_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o word_n and_o so_o alsoe_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o the_o form_n of_o the_o eucharist_n the_o proof_n depend_v upon_o the_o speculative_a signification_n of_o
he_o bring_v these_o which_o you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v wherefore_o in_o this_o you_o come_v short_a of_o the_o very_a minister_n honesty_n how_o little_a then_o must_v you_o needs_o have_v last_o i_o answer_v this_o very_a authority_n be_v against_o you_o in_o the_o two_o thing_n in_o controversy_n between_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n both_o which_o it_o allow_v and_o be_v against_o we_o only_o in_o one_o not_o so_o proper_o in_o controversy_n to_o wit_n in_o that_o it_o say_v this_o change_n be_v wrought_v not_o by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o the_o benediction_n that_o go_v before_o which_o benediction_n it_o do_v not_o say_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o word_n or_o a_o deed_n and_o it_o be_v as_o like_a to_o be_v some_o word_n as_o otherwise_o but_o whether_o word_n or_o deed_n it_o be_v as_o easy_a to_o consecrate_v by_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n as_o by_o any_o other_o word_n or_o outward_a deed_n so_o as_o herein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o have_v no_o help_n from_o any_o man_n either_o salmeron_n or_o the_o grecian_n or_o even_o your_o friend_n chamier_n for_o he_o discover_v your_o bad_a deal_n 22._o after_o this_o matter_n of_o the_o blessing_n you_o come_v back_o again_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o transubstantiation_n out_o of_o scripture_n tell_v we_o that_o bellarmine_n say_v it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a place_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v it_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n as_o scotus_n say_v for_o though_o say_v bellarmine_n that_o place_n which_o we_o bring_v seem_v so_o plain_a that_o it_o may_v compel_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a yet_o it_o may_v just_o be_v doubt_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o see_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n as_o scotus_n have_v think_v the_o contrary_n in_o which_o word_n bellarmine_n say_v but_o what_o we_o grant_v before_o to_o wit_n that_o though_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n in_o the_o plain_a connatural_a and_o obvious_a sense_n infer_v transubstantiation_n yet_o because_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o some_o learned_a man_n they_o may_v have_v another_o sense_n which_o prove_v only_o the_o real_a presence_n without_o transubstantiation_n it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n they_o can_v enforce_v a_o man_n to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n out_o of_o they_o what_o of_o all_o this_o nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n sir_n knight_n though_o in_o translate_n this_o saying_n of_o bellarmine_n you_n have_v corrupt_v it_o in_o two_o place_n the_o one_o that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v one_o scripture_n or_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a you_o change_v the_o singular_a number_n into_o the_o plural_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v the_o scripture_n be_v so_o plain_a etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o corruption_n of_o you_o thereby_o insinuate_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n teach_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v plain_a and_o with_o out_o difficulty_n so_o as_o every_o body_n may_v understand_v they_o which_o indeed_o be_v a_o ordinary_a say_n of_o you_o protestant_n but_o as_o ordinary_o deny_v by_o we_o catholic_n the_o other_o be_v that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v man_n most_o learned_a and_o acute_a as_o scotus_n be_v you_o say_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n such_o as_o scotus_n which_o word_n the_o you_o can_v but_o know_v alter_v the_o sense_n much_o for_o it_o import_v as_o if_o the_o better_a part_n of_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n go_v that_o way_n which_o be_v false_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o cardinal_n word_n and_o meaning_n 23._o you_o tell_v we_o now_o in_o the_o next_o place_n that_o you_o will_v proceed_v from_o scripture_n to_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v say_v mighty_a matter_n out_o of_o scripture_n not_o have_v indeed_o say_v one_o word_n out_o of_o it_o either_o for_o yourself_o or_o against_o us._n well_o let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o the_o father_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n say_v you_o be_v a_o diligent_a reader_n of_o the_o father_n yet_o after_o great_a study_n and_o search_n return_v this_o answer_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v seldom_o mention_v in_o the_o father_n but_o sir_n you_o be_v no_o diligent_a reader_n nor_o faithful_a interpreter_n of_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n for_o his_o word_n as_o you_o yourself_o put_v they_o down_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n be_v thus_o indulgent_a alphon_n a_o castro_n lib._n 8._o verbo_fw-la indulgent_a de_fw-fr transubstantiatione_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la rara_fw-la est_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la scriptoribus_fw-la mentio_fw-la that_o be_v of_o the_o transubstantiation_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v sedome_n mention_v in_o ancient_a writer_n wherein_o he_o say_v true_a and_o you_o most_o false_a for_o though_o of_o transubstantiation_n there_o be_v rare_a mention_n yet_o of_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v most_o frequent_a mention_n as_o bellarmine_n show_v at_o large_a and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o a_o faithless_a interpreter_n 20._o de_fw-fr euchar._n l._n 3._o cap._n 20._o but_o if_o a_o man_n consider_v castro_n his_o meaning_n he_o shall_v find_v you_o to_o have_v abuse_v that_o much_o more_o than_o his_o word_n for_o his_o drift_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o show_v that_o though_o there_o be_v not_o much_o mention_n in_o ancient_a write_v of_o a_o thing_n or_o plain_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n that_o yet_o the_o use_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sufficient_a bring_v for_o a_o example_n this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n whereof_o he_o say_v there_o be_v seldom_o mention_n and_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n whereof_o say_v he_o there_o be_v more_o seldom_o mention_n and_o then_o make_v his_o inference_n upon_o it_o thus_o yet_o who_o but_o a_o haeretique_n will_v deny_v these_o thing_n you_o may_v then_o as_o well_o sir_n humphrey_n and_o better_o too_o in_o castro_n his_o judgement_n have_v deny_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o proceed_v from_o the_o son_n than_o the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v into_o christ_n body_n and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o no_o diligent_a nor_o understand_v reader_n of_o castro_n 24._o after_o he_o come_v one_o yribarne_v a_o disciple_n of_o scotus_n who_o word_n you_o also_o corrupt_a in_o the_o translation_n which_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o tell_v you_o of_o for_o the_o matter_n he_o say_v it_o be_v of_o the_o substance_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o of_o transubstantiation_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o hold_v with_o his_o master_n scotus_n who_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n till_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n for_o which_o you_o yourself_o confess_v he_o be_v censure_v by_o bellarmine_n and_o suarez_n which_o be_v answer_n enough_o for_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o the_o beginning_n we_o do_v not_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o defend_v every_o singular_a opinion_n of_o one_o or_o two_o doctor_n contrary_a to_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o other_o but_o beside_o i_o answer_v that_o scotus_n plain_o aver_v transubstantiation_n and_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n who_o use_v the_o very_a word_n of_o conversion_n which_o be_v all_o one_o with_o transubstantiation_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n respondeo_fw-la quod_fw-la nec_fw-la panis_fw-la manet_fw-la contra_fw-la primam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la nec_fw-la annihilatur_fw-la vel_fw-la resoluitur_fw-la in_o materiam_fw-la primam_fw-la 9.3_o sâ—â—t_fw-la 4._o do_v 1â—_n 9.3_o contra_fw-la secundam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la sed_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la et_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la multum_fw-la express_v videtur_fw-la loqui_fw-la ambrose_n cvius_fw-la undecim_fw-la authoritates_fw-la supra_fw-la adductae_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o plures_fw-la habentur_fw-la de_fw-fr consecrat_fw-mi do_v 2._o i_o answer_v that_o neither_o the_o bread_n remain_v against_o the_o first_o opinion_n nor_o be_v annihilate_v or_o resolve_v in_o to_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la against_o the_o second_o opinion_n but_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n s._n ambrose_n seem_v to_o speak_v very_o express_o out_o of_o who_o 11._o authoritye_n be_v bring_v before_o and_o more_o be_v to_o be_v have_v the_o consecr_n do_v 2._o 1._o s._n amb._n de_fw-fr iis_fw-la qui_fw-la mist_n initiant_fw-la cap._n 9_o &_o the_o sacrament_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 3._o &_o 4._o lib._n 6._o cap._n 1
be_v change_v into_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o christ_n he_o do_v not_o say_v it_o confident_o and_o certain_o but_o doubtful_o and_o with_o due_a submission_n to_o better_a judgement_n and_o especial_o to_o the_o church_n saluo_fw-la meliori_fw-la iudicio_fw-la existimari_fw-la potest_fw-la etc._n etc._n be_v his_o word_n 3_o 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 3_o save_v better_a judgement_n it_o may_v be_v think_v etc._n etc._n and_o in_o answer_n of_o a_o argument_n to_o the_o contrary_a wherein_o be_v object_v the_o common_a consent_n of_o other_o against_o he_o he_o say_v that_o that_o notwithstanding_o yet_o so_o long_o as_o their_o say_n be_v not_o confirm_v by_o the_o church_n it_o be_v lawful_a to_o think_v the_o contrary_n in_o which_o word_n he_o show_v two_o thing_n one_o that_o his_o opinion_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o common_a current_n of_o the_o catholic_a doctor_n of_o his_o own_o tyme._n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o which_o you_o say_v that_o he_o and_o his_o fellow_n schoolman_n profess_v that_o doctrine_n open_o for_o you_o see_v he_o acknowledge_v all_o other_o to_o be_v against_o he_o neither_o do_v he_o himself_o profess_v it_o so_o open_o for_o he_o speak_v it_o doubtful_o and_o with_o submission_n to_o better_a judgement_n the_o other_o thing_n be_v that_o he_o plain_o acknowledge_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v such_o as_o that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o any_o man_n to_o hold_v opinion_n against_o it_o but_o though_o he_o shall_v have_v say_v nothing_o thereof_o in_o this_o place_n it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o in_o the_o praeface_n of_o his_o commentary_n upon_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n he_o submit_v all_o his_o work_n to_o the_o correction_n of_o the_o holy_a roman_a and_o catholic_a church_n to_o which_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o interpretation_n of_o all_o doubt_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n to_o belong_v which_o profession_n without_o more_o may_v serve_v to_o excuse_v and_o free_v he_o from_o the_o crime_n of_o haeresy_n either_o in_o this_o or_o any_o other_o point_n wherein_o he_o may_v have_v chance_v to_o err_v as_o bellarmine_n do_v therefore_o just_o excuse_v he_o 37._o now_o for_o gaufridus_n and_o ostiensis_n our_o own_o proctor_n as_o you_o call_v they_o as_o you_o have_v the_o objection_n so_o you_o shall_v have_v the_o answer_n alsoe_o out_o of_o durand_n 1._o durand_n in_o 4._o do_v 10._o q._n 1._o thus_o than_o he_o object_v against_o the_o praesence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n ostiensis_n and_o gaufridus_n note_v 3._o opinion_n concern_v the_o manner_n of_o be_v of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o altar_n of_o which_o one_o say_v that_o the_o bread_n be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n another_o say_v that_o the_o bread_n do_v not_o remain_v but_o be_v change_v and_o that_o the_o accident_n alone_o do_v remain_v which_o seem_v to_o be_v approve_v by_o that_o text_n of_o cap._n firmâ—ter_n the_o three_o opinion_n say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n do_v remain_v and_o be_v together_o with_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o altar_n behold_v that_o they_o call_v it_o a_o opinion_n of_o the_o remanency_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n neither_o do_v they_o say_v it_o be_v reprove_v nay_o rather_o they_o refer_v it_o to_o the_o confession_n of_o berengarius_fw-la which_o be_v approve_v by_o the_o council_n thus_o the_o objection_n set_v down_o and_o urge_v by_o durand_n not_o cite_v out_o of_o they_o now_o his_o answer_n be_v this_o for_o that_o which_o be_v afterward_o say_v of_o gaufrid_n ber._n and_o hostiens_fw-la glosser_n upon_o the_o chap._n firmiter_fw-la it_o be_v to_o be_v answer_v that_o though_o they_o recount_v three_o opinion_n they_o approve_v none_o for_o true_a but_o only_o that_o of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v upon_o the_o altar_n by_o transubstantiation_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o express_o call_v any_o of_o they_o erroneous_a it_o follow_v not_o therefore_o that_o it_o be_v not_o erroneous_a for_o they_o do_v not_o know_v all_o the_o passage_n of_o holy_a scripture_n from_o which_o the_o fore_n say_v opinion_n do_v differ_v thus_o the_o objection_n &_o answer_n in_o the_o very_a word_n as_o they_o lie_v in_o durand_n out_o of_o which_o first_o it_o be_v clear_a these_o man_n be_v only_a canonist_n no_o school_n divine_n such_o as_o you_o pretend_v here_o to_o allege_v though_o you_o alsoe_o insinuate_v the_o same_o somewhat_o in_o as_o much_o as_o you_o call_v they_o our_o proctor_n wherein_o yet_o you_o mistake_v your_o term_n the_o word_n proctor_n be_v not_o so_o fit_a for_o so_o great_a doctor_n of_o the_o canon_n as_o they_o be_v for_o how_o think_v you_o vould_v your_o civil_a or_o canon_n doctor_n of_o the_o arch_n take_v it_o at_o your_o hand_n to_o be_v call_v proctor_n or_o your_o great_a lord_n sir_n edoward_n cook_n and_o doctor_n as_o i_o may_v say_v of_o your_o common_a law_n to_o be_v call_v a_o attorney_n at_o law_n second_o hereby_o appear_v also_o your_o corruption_n in_o say_v that_o they_o teach_v that_o this_o opinion_n be_v not_o to_o be_v reject_v for_o thus_o you_o put_v it_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n this_o opinion_n say_v they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v reject_v whereas_o they_o say_v no_o such_o thing_n but_o only_o durand_n enforce_v the_o objection_n to_o the_o utmost_a as_o divine_n be_v wont_a to_o do_v the_o more_o full_o to_o answer_n take_v hold_v that_o they_o call_v it_o a_o opinion_n and_o likewise_o take_v hold_v that_o they_o do_v not_o say_v it_o be_v reprove_v or_o that_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o a_o error_n three_o hence_o it_o appear_v that_o both_o they_o themselves_o do_v not_o allow_v of_o it_o in_o that_o they_o hold_v only_o that_o middle_a opinion_n of_o transubstantiation_n for_o true_a and_o that_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o express_o condemn_v it_o of_o error_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v but_o that_o it_o be_v error_n for_o they_o know_v not_o all_o the_o passage_n of_o scripture_n scripture_n be_v not_o their_o study_n thus_o than_o all_o your_o schoolman_n be_v answer_v and_o consequent_o this_o whole_a §_o of_o transubstantiation_n paragraph_n 3._o of_o private_a mass_n 1._o in_o this_o three_o §_o sir_n humphrey_n pretend_v to_o make_v good_a the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o his_o church_n and_o overthrow_v out_v in_o point_n of_o private_a mass_n as_o he_o call_v it_o beginning_n with_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n against_o such_o as_o condemn_v it_o for_o unlawful_a and_o then_o bring_v a_o article_n of_o ireland_n to_o the_o contrary_a which_o say_v that_o for_o the_o priest_n to_o receive_v the_o eucharist_n without_o a_o competent_a number_n of_o communicant_n be_v against_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n &_o practice_v of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o proof_n of_o this_o his_o doctrine_n he_o bring_v the_o word_n of_o christ_n 11.1_o 1._o cor._n 11.1_o take_v you_o eat_v you_o and_o those_o of_o s._n paul_n be_v you_o follower_n of_o i_o even_o as_o i_o be_o alsoe_o of_o christ_n as_o likewise_o those_o other_o when_o you_o come_v together_o tarry_v one_o for_o another_o and_o the_o cup_n of_o blessing_n which_o we_o bless_v be_v it_o not_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n and_o here_o the_o knight_n say_v out_o of_o hugo_n de_fw-fr s._n victo_n who_o he_o of_o his_o own_o free_a goodness_n be_v please_v to_o create_v a_o cardinal_n both_o here_o and_o else_o where_o to_o make_v up_o the_o number_n of_o his_o cardinal_n bishop_n etc._n etc._n that_o it_o be_v call_v a_o communion_n because_o the_o people_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n do_v communicate_v together_o and_o he_o say_v of_o himself_o that_o it_o be_v so_o call_v because_o the_o priest_n and_o people_n communicate_v together_o after_o this_o he_o bring_v a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nantes_n forbid_v priest_n to_o say_v mass_n alone_o for_o to_o who_o say_v the_o canon_n do_v the_o priest_n say_v the_o lord_n be_v with_o you_o to_o which_o he_o add_v 12._o or_o 13._o of_o our_o author_n in_o proof_n that_o ancient_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n witness_v therein_o as_o he_o say_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n and_o intimate_v the_o novelty_n of_o we_o and_o he_o tell_v we_o also_o that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n conclude_v with_o a_o wellwishing_a to_o his_o doctrine_n in_o say_v that_o it_o wish_v that_o the_o people_n will_v communicate_v not_o only_o spiritual_o but_o also_o sacramental_o adiudging_a his_o communion_n to_o be_v more_o fruitful_a this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o this_o whole_a §_o 2._o to_o which_o i_o answer_v begin_v with_o this_o last_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n that_o the_o rearde_a
they_o be_v sacrament_n because_o ordain_v by_o christ_n primary_o the_o other_o 5._o not_o and_o for_o proof_n you_o bring_v the_o cardinal_n as_o if_o he_o say_v the_o same_o but_o in_o this_o place_n the_o cardinal_n speak_v not_o one_o word_n either_o of_o their_o be_v or_o not_o be_v sacrament_n or_o be_v or_o not_o be_v institute_v by_o christ_n as_o these_o very_a word_n themselves_o do_v show_v and_o any_o man_n may_v see_v more_o plain_o in_o bellarmine_n himself_o both_o here_o and_o elsewhere_o where_o he_o handle_v those_o matter_n teach_v the_o contrary_a express_o and_o of_o purpose_n what_o madness_n then_o be_v it_o for_o a_o man_n to_o say_v the_o cardinal_n be_v enforce_v upon_o a_o thing_n that_o he_o dream_v not_o of_o to_o confess_v clean_o another_o matter_n now_o bellarmine_n meaning_n in_o that_o place_n be_v only_o of_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o sacrament_n that_o be_v what_o thing_n they_o signify_v because_o they_o be_v sacred_a sign_n of_o something_o and_o he_o say_v they_o signify_v three_o thing_n one_o thing_n past_a to_o wit_n the_o passion_n of_o christ_n another_o present_a to_o wit_n sanctify_v grace_n which_o they_o work_v in_o our_o soul_n another_o thing_n to_o come_v to_o wit_n aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o effect_n of_o grace_n which_o three_o thing_n he_o say_v every_o sacrament_n do_v signify_v and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o they_o do_v so_o signify_v but_o withal_o that_o the_o signification_n of_o these_o three_o be_v not_o so_o express_v and_o alike_o apparent_a or_o know_v in_o all_o but_o most_o apparent_a in_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n not_o so_o apparent_a in_o the_o rest_n which_o last_o word_n be_v in_o latin_a thus_o de_fw-fr alijs_fw-la sacramentis_fw-la non_fw-la estita_fw-la notum_fw-la of_o the_o other_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o signify_v all_o these_o thing_n you_o translate_v or_o rather_o corrupt_v they_o thus_o of_o the_o other_o 5._o it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a notum_fw-la with_o you_o be_v certain_a and_o whereas_o the_o opposition_n in_o bellarmine_n saying_n be_v between_o know_v and_o not_o know_v 9_o bell._n the_o sacr_n in_o gen_fw-la lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o you_o make_v it_o between_o know_v or_o apparent_a and_o certain_a which_o be_v not_o opposite_a for_o a_o thing_n may_v be_v certain_a though_o not_o manifest_v as_o all_o matter_n of_o faith_n be_v and_o then_o you_o leave_v out_o that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v of_o the_o certainty_n thus_o tamen_fw-la certum_fw-la est_fw-la saltem_fw-la implicit_a illa_fw-la omne_fw-la significare_fw-la quia_fw-la cum_fw-la omne_fw-la significent_fw-la gratiam_fw-la consequenter_fw-la etiam_fw-la significant_a principium_fw-la &_o finem_fw-la eiusdem_fw-la gratiae_fw-la but_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o they_o signify_v all_o these_o thing_n at_o least_o implicit_o because_o see_v they_o signify_v grace_n they_o consequent_o also_o signify_v the_o beginning_n and_o end_n of_o the_o same_o grace_n that_o be_v the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o cause_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o effect_n of_o grace_n whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a how_o shameful_o you_o abuse_v this_o good_a cardinal_n and_o so_o i_o end_v this_o §_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n §._o 5._o 1._o in_o this_o §_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v with_o the_o 6._o article_n as_o he_o call_v it_o of_o the_o roman_a creed_n i_o confess_v that_o under_o one_o kind_n only_o all_o and_o whole_a christ_n and_o the_o true_a sacrament_n be_v receive_v and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o say_v that_o notwithstanding_o christ_n do_v institute_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o the_o laity_n be_v to_o communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n which_o word_n notwithstanding_o the_o knight_n be_v please_v to_o gloss_n thus_o as_o it_o be_v in_o despite_n of_o god_n and_o man._n with_o which_o he_o join_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v thus_o although_o our_o saviour_n do_v exhibit_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o if_o any_o man_n shall_v say_v the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n be_v not_o induce_v for_o just_a cause_n to_o communicate_v the_o lay_a people_n and_o the_o non-conficient_a priest_n under_o one_o kind_n to_o wit_n of_o bread_n only_o and_o shall_v say_v they_o err_v in_o so_o do_v let_v he_o be_v accurse_v against_o this_o he_o bring_v two_o place_n of_o scripture_n &_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o so_o conclude_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o church_n this_o go_v round_o with_o a_o fiddle_n sir_n humphrey_n but_o now_o you_o must_v take_v we_o along_o with_o you_o and_o give_v we_o leave_v to_o come_v with_o you_o a_o little_a upon_o the_o matter_n 2._o this_o you_o say_v be_v the_o 6._o article_n of_o our_o creed_n by_o which_o a_o man_n may_v see_v i_o say_v true_a in_o the_o beginning_n when_o i_o tell_v you_o if_o it_o have_v be_v your_o good_a pleasure_n so_o to_o do_v you_o may_v have_v divide_v this_o creed_n into_o 24._o article_n as_o well_o as_o into_o 12._o for_o this_o be_v but_o a_o little_a libbet_n in_o the_o very_a late_a end_n of_o that_o article_n as_o you_o have_v put_v it_o down_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o your_o book_n which_o piece_n also_o you_o translate_v out_o of_o the_o latin_a false_o and_o absurd_o the_o latin_a be_v thus_o fateor_fw-la etiam_fw-la sub_fw-la altera_fw-la specie_fw-la totum_fw-la atque_fw-la integrum_fw-la christum_fw-la verumque_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la sumi_fw-la i_o confess_v also_o under_o one_o kind_n only_o to_o be_v receive_v christ_n whole_a and_o entire_a and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n whereas_o you_o say_v all_o and_o whole_a christ_n as_o if_o the_o council_n have_v say_v omnis_fw-la &_o totus_fw-la christus_fw-la where_o the_o word_n all_o be_v improper_a for_o who_o speak_v thus_o all_o peter_n all_o paul_n and_o it_o import_v as_o if_o christ_n have_v many_o thing_n pertain_v to_o he_o which_o be_v himself_o but_o yet_o do_v not_o make_v one_o and_o the_o same_o thing_n with_o he_o which_o be_v not_o imaginable_a how_o it_o can_v be_v whereas_o totus_fw-la christus_fw-la do_v signify_v one_o whole_a christ_n and_o omnis_fw-la christus_fw-la and_o totus_fw-la christus_fw-la to_o any_o man_n that_o understand_v latin_a be_v two_o weary_a different_a thing_n and_o in_o your_o translation_n you_o confound_v totus_fw-la and_o integer_fw-la make_v they_o both_o to_o signify_v the_o same_o whereas_o in_o the_o council_n they_o have_v a_o several_a signification_n totus_fw-la pertain_v to_o the_o integrity_n of_o christ_n as_o consist_v of_o essential_a part_n of_o body_n and_o soul_n and_o of_o his_o personality_n and_o divinity_n and_o integer_fw-la pertain_v to_o the_o integrity_n of_o all_o the_o part_n of_o his_o body_n as_o head_n hands_z foot_n etc._n etc._n which_o the_o philosopher_n call_v part_n integrantes_fw-la by_o this_o than_o you_o see_v how_o a_o man_n that_o be_v dispose_v to_o stand_v about_o you_o may_v trouble_v you_o when_o in_o such_o a_o small_a thing_n as_o this_o there_o may_v be_v find_v so_o many_o fault_n 3._o for_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o you_o be_v so_o displease_v withal_o for_o contradict_v the_o word_n of_o christ_n as_o you_o conceive_v i_o think_v there_o may_v be_v find_v a_o mean_n to_o appease_v your_o displeasure_n if_o you_o will_v but_o remember_v that_o at_o the_o same_o time_n and_o in_o the_o same_o decree_n it_o be_v also_o declare_v that_o notwithstanding_o that_o christ_n do_v institute_v the_o bl._n sacrament_n after_o supper_n yet_o man_n shall_v now_o receive_v it_o fast_v which_o decree_n i_o presume_v you_o will_v not_o condemn_v neither_o will_v you_o i_o dare_v say_v gloss_n the_o word_n notwithstanding_o so_o favourable_o in_o your_o own_o behalf_n as_o you_o do_v in_o we_o as_o in_o despite_n of_o god_n and_o man_n you_o will_v receive_v your_o communion_n fast_v though_o christ_n do_v receive_v it_o not_o fast_v but_o even_o after_o supper_n and_o bid_v we_o do_v what_o he_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o and_o notwithstanding_o also_o that_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v as_o you_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o bellarmine_n but_o that_o be_v best_a &_o fit_a to_o be_v practise_v which_o christ_n himself_o have_v do_v do_v you_o not_o then_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o may_v be_v make_v friend_n with_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n see_v it_o have_v do_v you_o as_o good_a a_o turn_n as_o it_o have_v do_v to_o us._n but_o because_o i_o see_v not_o how_o you_o can_v but_o know_v this_o before_o and_o therefore_o have_v err_v as_o i_o may_v well_o say_v witting_o this_o be_v too_o friendly_a language_n to_o talk_v to_o you_o therefore_o i_o answer_v you_o plain_o in_o bring_v this_o decree_n this_o you_o have_v bring_v a_o staff_n to_o beat_v yourself_o withal_o for_o the_o
conveniret_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la fieri_fw-la communionem_fw-la quam_fw-la sub_fw-la altera_fw-la tantum_fw-la hoc_fw-la enim_fw-la magis_fw-la consonum_fw-la est_fw-la eius_fw-la institutioni_fw-la &_o integritati_fw-la &_o refectioni_fw-la corporali_fw-la &_o exemplo_fw-la christi_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o we_o regard_v the_o sacrament_n and_o the_o perfection_n thereof_o it_o be_v more_o convenient_a to_o have_v the_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n then_o under_o one_o for_o this_o be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o institution_n thereof_o and_o the_o integrity_n and_o corporal_a resection_n and_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n where_o first_o you_o leave_v out_o in_o your_o english_a translation_n those_o word_n habito_fw-la respectu_fw-la ad_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la though_o you_o put_v they_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n which_o word_n be_v the_o life_n of_o the_o sentence_n and_o plain_o show_v that_o tapper_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o conveniency_n absolute_o and_o all_o thing_n consider_v but_o in_o some_o respect_n to_o wit_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o signification_n of_o our_o sauiour_n passion_n which_o be_v more_o express_a in_o both_o kind_n then_o in_o one_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o institution_n which_o be_v in_o both_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o integrity_n because_o as_o the_o divine_n say_v both_o the_o species_n be_v part_n integrantes_fw-la as_o two_o piece_n of_o bread_n in_o one_o loaf_n though_o both_o together_o have_v no_o more_o essential_a perfection_n than_o one_o alone_a and_o in_o respect_n of_o corporal_a refection_n which_o as_o it_o require_v meat_n and_o drink_v so_o the_o spiritual_a refection_n be_v more_o express_o signify_v by_o both_o though_o no_o less_o effectual_o perform_v by_o one_o so_o that_o this_o while_n tapper_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o absolute_a conveniency_n but_o only_o in_o some_o respect_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n whether_o you_o have_v keep_v your_o promise_n of_o not_o wilful_o or_o witting_o misciting_a or_o mistranslate_n any_o author_n for_o here_o it_o appear_v how_o you_o have_v mis-translated_n leave_v out_o as_o a_o man_n may_v say_v the_o principal_a verb_n which_o shall_v yet_o more_o appear_v by_o that_o which_o follow_v immediate_o in_o the_o same_o author_n which_o be_v this_o alia_fw-la tamen_fw-la consideratione_n reverentia_fw-la uz._n quae_fw-la huic_fw-la sacramento_n dbetur_fw-la utque_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la usu_fw-la vitemus_fw-la omneâ—â—â—reverentian_n minus_fw-la convenit_fw-la atque_fw-la etiam_fw-la malun_fw-la est_fw-la nulloque_fw-la modâ—_n expediens_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ut_fw-la populus_fw-la christianus_n sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la communicaret_fw-la bâ—â—_n in_o another_o consideration_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o reverence_n which_o be_v dew_n to_o this_o sacrament_n and_o to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v avoid_v all_o irreverence_n it_o be_v less_o convenient_a and_o even_o it_o be_v ill_a and_o no_o way_n expedient_a for_o the_o church_n that_o the_o christian_a people_n shall_v communicate_v under_o both_o kind_n loe_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o honest_o do_v of_o you_o to_o leave_v out_o this_o be_v the_o other_o half_n of_o the_o sentence_n answer_v to_o the_o former_a which_o of_o itself_o be_v imperfect_a and_o which_o be_v the_o author_n absolute_a judgement_n and_o determination_n can_v any_o man_n ever_o give_v you_o credit_v more_o but_o because_o sir_n i_o will_v not_o leave_v any_o scruple_n in_o any_o man_n mind_n concern_v this_o author_n meaning_n and_o that_o by_o the_o perfection_n and_o integrity_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o former_a part_n of_o the_o sentence_n he_o do_v not_o mean_v the_o want_n of_o any_o spiritual_a fruit_n i_o will_v add_v one_o word_n more_o out_o of_o he_o which_o be_v this_o in_o omissione_n calicis_fw-la nullum_fw-la interuenit_fw-la peccatum_fw-la aut_fw-la periculum_fw-la nec_fw-la aliquod_fw-la gratiae_fw-la spiritualis_fw-la iactum_fw-la in_o the_o omit_v or_o leave_v of_o the_o chalice_n there_o be_v no_o sin_n or_o danger_n or_o loss_n of_o any_o spiritual_a grace_n what_o can_v he_o say_v or_o we_o desire_v more_o 10._o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o your_o conclusion_n which_o you_o draw_v out_o of_o that_o that_o because_o many_o father_n and_o learned_a man_n do_v agree_v in_o say_v that_o the_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n be_v most_o frequent_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n therefore_o they_o give_v testimony_n of_o your_o doctrine_n it_o be_v most_o foolish_a for_o we_o also_o agree_v with_o they_o in_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o deny_v your_o doctrine_n which_o be_v that_o all_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n &_o consequent_o that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o receive_v it_o in_o one_o kind_n and_o that_o so_o to_o receive_v it_o be_v to_o receive_v but_o a_o half_a communion_n and_o such_o like_a absurditye_n this_o be_v your_o doctrine_n for_o proof_n whereof_o you_o have_v not_o bring_v one_o word_n out_o of_o any_o author_n but_o bring_v some_o that_o say_v absolute_o and_o express_o the_o contrary_a as_o val._n tapper_n bell._n etc._n etc._n nay_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v show_v you_o out_o of_o your_o own_o statute_n law_n make_v now_o in_o this_o your_o time_n of_o reformation_n some_o approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o the_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n 1._o 1._o edw._n 6._o cap._n 1._o which_o be_v the_o thing_n you_o exclaim_v so_o against_o we_o for_o see_v in_o the_o law_n of_o k._n edw._n 6._o reviue_v and_o confirm_v by_o q._n elizabeth_n whether_o they_o do_v not_o say_v only_o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v common_o deliver_v &_o minister_v to_o the_o people_n under_o both_o kind_n 1._o 1._o eliz._n ca._n 1._o &_o with_o this_o exception_n also_o unless_o necessity_n otherwise_o require_v look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o not_o here_o allow_v upon_o necessity_n though_o the_o necessity_n be_v not_o express_v what_o or_o how_o great_a it_o must_v be_v but_o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o particular_a necessity_n may_v excuse_v in_o a_o particular_a case_n if_o the_o necessity_n shall_v prove_v great_a &_o universal_a it_o may_v be_v also_o sufficient_a for_o abstayn_v from_o one_o kind_n universal_o or_o general_o and_o howsoever_o it_o show_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n not_o to_o be_v so_o strict_o command_v by_o christ_n for_o if_o it_o be_v no_o necessity_n can_v excuse_v it_o in_o one_o kind_a 11._o and_o so_o this_o may_v serve_v for_o this_o matter_n but_o that_o i_o be_o loath_a to_o let_v pass_v a_o worthy_a say_n of_o you_o in_o the_o very_a end_n of_o this_o §_o which_o be_v this_o and_o as_o concern_v the_o half_a communion_n which_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o want_v antiquity_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n by_o their_o own_o confession_n so_o likewise_o it_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n which_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o have_v thus_o you_o where_o with_o your_o worship_n good_a leave_n a_o man_n may_v tell_v you_o you_o have_v as_o many_o fault_n as_o word_n we_o teach_v all_o the_o contrary_a to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o half_a communion_n but_o that_o christ_n be_v receive_v whole_a and_o entire_a and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o as_o much_o spiritual_a fruit_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o one_o kind_a as_o both_o as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o your_o confession_n define_v we_o say_v it_o neither_o want_v antiquity_n nor_o consent_n of_o father_n as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o many_o other_o we_o say_v it_o do_v not_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n for_o as_o i_o say_v before_o we_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n 24._o v._o bell._n lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr euch._n cap._n 24._o both_o of_o the_o old_a &_o new_a testament_n the_o doctrine_n and_o example_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n express_v in_o scripture_n we_o say_v also_o to_o conclude_v therewith_o that_o it_o be_v most_o false_a of_o all_o which_o you_o take_v every_o where_o for_o a_o very_a truth_n as_o if_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o all_o side_n to_o wit_n that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n must_v have_v sufficient_a and_o express_a proof_n of_o scripture_n whereas_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n and_o as_o general_o conclude_v among_o all_o divine_n and_o father_n as_o you_o bold_o affirm_v you_o which_o assertion_n therefore_o of_o you_o i_o here_o absolute_o deny_v once_o for_o all_o and_o though_o i_o need_v not_o stand_v prove_v it_o be_v every_o where_n in_o all_o our_o author_n yet_o for_o the_o reader_n sake_n i_o will_v cite_v one_o place_n of_o s._n jerome_n come_v first_o to_o my_o memory_n who_o have_v prove_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n against_o the_o luciferian_n haeretique_n out_o of_o
scripture_n which_o they_o stand_v upon_o he_o answer_v thus_o et_fw-la etiam_fw-la si_fw-la sacrae_fw-la scripturae_fw-la authoritas_fw-la non_fw-la subesset_fw-la lucifer_n dialog_n 2._o con_v lucifer_n totius_fw-la orbis_fw-la in_o hanc_fw-la partem_fw-la consensus_fw-la instar_fw-la praecepti_fw-la obtineret_fw-la and_o although_o the_o authority_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v want_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n on_o this_o side_n shall_v have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o precept_n and_o so_o there_o be_v a_o end_n of_o this_o 5._o §_o of_o prayer_n and_o service_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n §._o 6._o 1._o in_o this_o §_o the_o knight_n speak_v against_o the_o practice_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n in_o two_o thing_n one_o be_v for_o use_v the_o public_a service_n in_o a_o tongue_n not_o know_v to_o the_o vulgar_a people_n another_o for_o say_v some_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n so_o as_o the_o people_n can_v hear_v the_o 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another_o the_o council_n say_v that_o though_o the_o mass_n contain_v great_a instruction_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n you_o tell_v we_o the_o council_n by_o consequence_n do_v affirm_v it_o to_o follow_v the_o council_n think_v it_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o general_a and_o long_o continue_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o not_o use_v the_o vulgar_a tongue_n in_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n but_o for_o instruction_n of_o the_o people_n to_o interpret_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v you_o say_v it_o approve_v the_o contrary_a custom_n of_o your_o church_n if_o it_o have_v so_o have_v it_o not_o be_v a_o easy_a matter_n to_o have_v appoint_v it_o to_o be_v read_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n but_o the_o council_n know_v well_o that_o course_n be_v not_o so_o fit_a neither_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o public_a good_a of_o the_o church_n nor_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o private_a good_a of_o the_o faithful_a people_n for_o many_o reason_n 3._o first_o for_o the_o general_a practice_n and_o custom_n which_o have_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n of_o have_v the_o mass_n and_o public_a office_n in_o latin_a all_n over_o the_o latin_a or_o western_a church_n both_o in_o italy_n spain_n france_n germany_n england_n africa_n &_o all_o other_o place_n and_o so_o likewise_o in_o greek_a in_o the_o grecian_a or_o eastern_a church_n though_o it_o be_v as_o large_a in_o extent_n &_o have_v as_o much_o variety_n of_o vulgar_a language_n in_o it_o as_o the_o latin_a church_n have_v which_o custom_n be_v not_o to_o be_v forsake_v especial_o for_o haeretique_n &_o out_o of_o that_o their_o false_a persuasion_n that_o it_o be_v no_o good_a or_o lawful_a practice_n second_o for_o the_o uniformity_n which_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v use_v in_o such_o thing_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v excellent_o declare_v &_o also_o much_o maintain_v by_o this_o unity_n of_o language_n in_o the_o church-office_n for_o as_o language_n be_v a_o thing_n most_o necessary_a for_o commerce_n among_o man_n in_o civil_a matter_n so_o also_o in_o ecclesiastical_a and_o without_o this_o use_n of_o latin_a in_o this_o manner_n there_o can_v not_o be_v that_o communication_n between_o man_n of_o learning_n neither_o will_v man_n of_o one_o country_n be_v the_o better_a for_o the_o writing_n of_o other_o there_o will_v be_v little_a meeting_n of_o man_n of_o several_a nation_n in_o counsel_n little_a study_n of_o counsel_n of_o father_n &_o other_o who_o have_v all_o write_v in_o latin_a or_o some_o learned_a language_n whereas_o the_o use_n of_o the_o latin_a tongue_n in_o the_o church_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o all_o the_o contrary_a effect_n as_o we_o see_v by_o experience_n three_o the_o use_n of_o vulgar_a tongue_n in_o the_o mass_n and_o church-office_n will_v cause_v not_o only_o great_a confusion_n but_o breed_v a_o infinite_a number_n of_o error_n by_o so_o many_o several_a translation_n not_o only_o in_o several_a country_n but_o by_o several_a translation_n in_o every_o country_n of_o any_o small_a extent_n even_o in_o the_o same_o place_n upon_o a_o little_a change_n of_o time_n for_o as_o we_o see_v in_o every_o age_n the_o vulgar_a language_n recive_v a_o great_a alternation_n of_o which_o translation_n the_o church_n will_v not_o be_v able_a any_o way_n to_o judge_v scripture_n be_v the_o hard_a thing_n to_o translate_v of_o all_o other_o &_o which_o therefore_o for_o the_o well_o translate_n thereof_o require_v the_o special_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o no_o private_a man_n can_v promise_v himself_o last_o the_o use_n of_o a_o vulgar_a language_n in_o such_o thing_n will_v breed_v a_o great_a contempt_n of_o sacred_a thing_n with_o profane_v and_o irreligiosity_n beside_o the_o danger_n of_o haeresy_n which_o come_v no_o way_n soon_o than_o by_o misunderstanding_n of_o holy_a scripture_n neither_o be_v any_o more_o apt_a to_o mis-understand_v it_o than_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o people_n if_o they_o once_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o understand_v these_o reason_n then_o among_o other_o but_o most_o of_o all_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n draw_v even_o from_o the_o apostle_n by_o perpetual_a succession_n and_o practice_n may_v persuade_v the_o council_n to_o think_v that_o though_o some_o benefitt_a might_n come_v to_o some_o few_o particular_a man_n by_o understanding_n what_o be_v write_v yet_o it_o be_v absolute_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o same_o custom_n still_o and_o even_o to_o remedy_v that_o inconvenience_n another_o way_n to_o wit_n by_o explain_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v in_o the_o mass_n which_o the_o council_n declare_v by_o a_o similitude_n very_o proper_a for_o the_o purpose_n to_o wit_n by_o break_v of_o bread_n to_o little_a one_o fort_n it_o be_v even_o as_o necessary_a for_o ordinary_a people_n to_o have_v the_o scripture_n so_o declare_v as_o for_o 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practice_n to_o be_v more_o for_o aedification_n of_o the_o people_n nay_o do_v it_o not_o in_o the_o canon_n express_o condemn_v it_o say_n anathema_n to_o whosoever_o shall_v condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o read_v some_o part_n of_o the_o canon_n soft_o or_o to_o whosoever_o shall_v say_v that_o the_o mass_n ought_v to_o be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n 4._o now_o for_o the_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o you_o bring_v to_o wit_n that_o we_o must_v show_v forth_o the_o lord_n death_n till_o his_o come_v which_o you_o say_v be_v not_o intend_v to_o the_o wall_n as_o we_o do_v it_o show_v sufficient_o how_o well_o you_o understand_v scripture_n and_o consequent_o how_o well_o the_o common_a people_n between_o who_o and_o yourself_o you_o i_o dare_v say_v think_v there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n will_v understand_v they_o when_o you_o be_v even_o a_o writer_n so_o little_o understand_v they_o for_o that_o place_n of_o announce_v our_o lord_n death_n be_v not_o understand_v by_o word_n as_o you_o understand_v it_o but_o by_o deed_n as_o it_o be_v most_o plain_a by_o the_o circumstance_n wherein_o they_o be_v speak_v to_o wit_n by_o consecrate_v and_o change_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o lord_n as_o we_o do_v daily_o in_o the_o mass_n in_o memory_n of_o our_o saviour_n passion_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n have_v speak_v of_o the_o institution_n and_o manner_n to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o consecration_n express_o say_v as_o often_o as_o you_o shall_v do_v this_o you_o shall_v announce_v the_o death_n of_o our_o lord_n the_o do_v therefore_o be_v the_o announce_v not_o the_o save_v beside_o these_o word_n at_o least_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o speak_v do_v not_o import_v any_o command_n for_o you_o shall_v find_v the_o word_n annuntiabitis_fw-la be_v the_o indicative_a mood_n and_o future_a tense_n if_o you_o look_v well_o into_o your_o accidence_n sir_n humphrey_n and_o withal_o it_o be_v somewhat_o conditional_a to_o wit_n that_o as_o often_o as_o we_o shall_v do_v that_o we_o shall_v announce_v the_o death_n of_o our_o lord_n beside_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o never_o hear_v before_o that_o it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o speak_v latin_a and_o to_o speak_v to_o the_o wall_n if_o a_o man_n shall_v speak_v a_o word_n of_o latin_a to_o you_o be_v that_o to_o speak_v to_o a_o wall_n you_o see_v then_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v what_o you_o say_v 5._o but_o now_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o yourself_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v out_o of_o other_o man_n and_o first_o for_o haymo_n who_o you_o cite_v for_o your_o purpose_n ask_v this_o unanswearable_a question_n as_o you_o call_v it_o if_o a_o man_n that_o know_v only_o his_o mother_n tongue_n stand_v by_o or_o make_v a_o sermon_n or_o give_v a_o blessing_n how_o shall_v he_o say_v amen_o since_o he_o do_v not_o know_v what_o thou_o say_v so_o you_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v it_o be_v true_a haymo_n have_v a_o question_n to_o this_o purpose_n but_o not_o so_o much_o to_o you_o if_o you_o mark_v he_o well_o nor_o so_o unanswearable_a if_o you_o take_v he_o altogether_o with_o what_o he_o say_v before_o and_o after_o your_o question_n for_o so_o you_o shall_v find_v he_o do_v not_o require_v that_o all_o that_o be_v by_o shall_v understand_v but_o that_o he_o that_o supply_v the_o place_n of_o the_o idiot_n or_o lay_v man_n in_o answer_v for_o the_o people_n shall_v understand_v for_o before_o that_o question_n of_o you_o he_o make_v this_o other_o first_o quis_fw-la supplebit_fw-la vel_fw-la quis_fw-la adimplebit_fw-la locum_fw-la illius_fw-la qui_fw-la te_fw-la audit_n &_o non_fw-la intelligit_fw-la verba_fw-la tua_fw-la who_o shall_v supply_v or_o who_o shall_v fulfil_v the_o place_n of_o he_o that_o hear_v thou_o and_o do_v not_o understand_v thy_o word_n which_o show_v that_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o idiot_n or_o ordinary_a bystander_n but_o of_o one_o that_o be_v to_o supply_v his_o place_n or_o make_v answer_n for_o he_o which_o appear_v yet_o more_o by_o that_o which_o follow_v immediate_o after_o your_o question_n thus_o si_fw-mi non_fw-la aderit_fw-la alius_fw-la pro_fw-la illo_fw-la sciens_fw-la quid_fw-la tu_fw-la dicas_fw-la qui_fw-la respondeat_fw-la amen_o 1._o verum_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la tu_fw-la dixisti_fw-la vel_fw-la fiat_fw-la ita_fw-la if_o there_o shall_v be_v none_o other_o for_o he_o that_o be_v in_o place_n of_o the_o ignorant_a man_n who_o know_v what_o thou_o say_v may_v answer_n amen_o that_o be_v to_o say_v it_o be_v true_a which_o thou_o have_v say_v or_o be_v it_o so_o do_v which_o plain_o show_v that_o in_o haymo_n his_o judgement_n it_o be_v sufficient_a if_o there_o be_v one_o understander_n to_o answer_n for_o the_o rest_n or_o for_o he_o that_o do_v not_o understand_v nay_o he_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o require_v so_o much_o as_o that_o this_o answearer_n shall_v understand_v all_o so_o 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emperor_n who_o say_v you_o make_v a_o constitution_n that_o bishop_n and_o priest_n shall_v celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n and_o prayer_n in_o baptism_n not_o in_o secret_a but_o with_o a_o loud_a and_o clear_a voice_n to_o this_o bellarmine_n make_v two_o answer_n 12_o bell._n lib._n 2_o 〈◊〉_d miss_n cap._n 12_o one_o that_o justinian_n be_v a_o mere_a secular_a man_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v to_o make_v law_n in_o such_o matter_n as_o it_o be_v most_o true_a and_o you_o can_v but_o know_v he_o be_v ordinary_o tax_v for_o too_o much_o take_v upon_o he_o in_o that_o kind_n the_o other_o that_o even_o that_o law_n do_v command_v nothing_o more_o but_o only_o that_o bishop_n and_o priest_n shall_v pronounce_v distinct_o and_o clear_o that_o which_o according_a to_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o eastern_a
church_n be_v to_o be_v speak_v aloud_o for_o say_v bell._n there_o be_v many_o as_o may_v be_v gather_v out_o the_o very_a constitution_n itself_o who_o to_o hide_v their_o own_o ignorance_n do_v contrary_a to_o the_o receive_a custom_n pronounce_v those_o thing_n soft_o which_o shall_v have_v be_v pronounce_v aloud_o and_o this_o to_o be_v so_o may_v appear_v plain_o by_o the_o law_n itself_o which_o you_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o have_v read_v for_o you_o cite_v it_o only_o out_o of_o your_o cassander_n who_o serve_v you_o to_o great_a steed_n for_o most_o of_o your_o citation_n 7._o you_o have_v in_o the_o next_o place_n a_o text_n out_o of_o the_o canon_n law_n the_o former_a be_v out_o of_o the_o civil_a to_o show_v your_o learning_n in_o all_o science_n ord._n cap._n quonian_a in_o plaerisque_fw-la de_fw-fr off_z iud_fw-la ord._n you_o cite_v it_o thus_o we_o command_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o such_o city_n and_o diocese_n where_o nation_n be_v mingle_v together_o provide_v 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the_o matter_n i_o cite_v it_o full_o for_o but_o for_o another_o purpose_n as_o you_o shall_v see_v when_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o bellarmine_n answer_n to_o this_o objection_n which_o be_v this_o that_o this_o decree_n speak_v only_o of_o the_o 2._o language_n greeke_n and_o latin_a for_o it_o be_v make_v by_o inno._n 3._o in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n because_o constantinople_n have_v be_v take_v not_o long_o before_o by_o the_o latin_n and_o then_o there_o be_v a_o latin_a emperor_n and_o patriarch_n and_o many_o latin_n by_o that_o occasion_n be_v mingle_v with_o the_o grecians_n in_o the_o same_o city_n they_o make_v a_o proposition_n in_o the_o council_n that_o they_o may_v have_v 2._o bishop_n one_o latin_a another_o greek_a to_o this_o the_o pope_n and_o council_n make_v answer_n that_o it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o have_v 2._o bishop_n of_o one_o city_n but_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o city_n shall_v substitute_v another_o in_o his_o room_n to_o celebrate_v the_o 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in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o and_o best_a age_n according_a to_o the_o precept_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o father_n and_o then_o you_o bring_v lyra_n joannes_n belethus_n gretzerus_n harding_n cassand_n and_o 2._o or_o 3._o more_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v true_a as_o these_o author_n say_v that_o in_o the_o beginning_n it_o be_v so_o but_o what_o think_v you_o be_v the_o reason_n even_o because_o those_o three_o holy_a language_n hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v most_o vulgar_a and_o common_a the_o hebrew_n in_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o part_n adjoin_v the_o greek_a in_o greece_n where_o s._n paul_n preach_v most_o and_o latin_a at_o rome_n &_o other_o part_n subject_a to_o the_o roman_a empire_n for_o if_o you_o mark_v it_o sir_n humphrey_n most_o of_o your_o author_n which_o you_o bring_v speak_v this_o of_o prayer_n and_o benediction_n be_v wont_a to_o be_v make_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n by_o occasion_n 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that_o any_o part_n of_o scripture_n be_v original_o write_v in_o other_o language_n or_o that_o there_o be_v any_o liturgy_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o near_o their_o time_n or_o any_o translation_n of_o scripture_n in_o other_o language_n much_o less_o be_v it_o ever_o hear_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v read_v in_o the_o meeting_n of_o christian_n or_o celebration_n of_o the_o divine_a mystery_n in_o other_o language_n then_o that_o wherein_o they_o be_v ordinary_o have_v and_o read_v to_o wit_n in_o some_o one_o of_o those_o language_n of_o late_a time_n we_o confess_v there_o have_v be_v use_n of_o other_o language_n as_o arabic_a chaldaic_a and_o the_o like_a but_o yet_o so_o as_o that_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o make_v choice_n of_o some_o one_o language_n which_o have_v be_v very_o common_a to_o many_o kingdom_n and_o nation_n not_o proper_a to_o any_o particular_a
answer_n be_v that_o polydore_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n but_o of_o those_o of_o the_o old_a who_o therefore_o he_o name_v veteres_fw-la patres_fw-la the_o old_a father_n and_o in_o particular_a name_v moses_n and_o ezechias_n the_o reason_n indeed_o why_o they_o do_v condemn_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v fear_n of_o idolatry_n but_o the_o reason_n of_o that_o fear_n be_v as_o he_o say_v because_o no_o man_n have_v see_v god_n they_o know_v not_o what_o shape_n to_o give_v he_o and_o discourse_v of_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n which_o be_v a_o figure_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o cross_n he_o say_v a_o long_a time_n after_o god_n put_v on_o humane_a sharp_a and_o be_v make_v man_n be_v see_v and_o know_v by_o mortal_a man_n and_o in_o that_o humble_a shape_n by_o his_o own_o power_n wrought_v miracle_n beyond_o credit_n the_o same_o whereof_o make_v man_n come_v flock_v unto_o he_o who_o do_v so_o behold_v and_o reverence_v his_o 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dissolutenes_n and_o audaciousnes_n yet_o you_o will_v be_v at_o it_o again_o hereby_o a_o man_n may_v see_v there_o need_v no_o other_o confutation_n but_o only_a right_n cite_v of_o your_o own_o author_n 17._o for_o peresius_n his_o word_n be_v nothing_o against_o we_o for_o they_o touch_v only_o upon_o a_o school_n point_n whether_o the_o picture_n be_v to_o be_v adore_v with_o the_o same_o worship_n as_o the_o prototype_n or_o thing_n represent_v or_o with_o a_o inferior_a worship_n the_o former_a opinion_n only_o he_o deni_v because_o say_v he_o there_o be_v neither_o proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n of_o the_o church_n common_a consent_n of_o father_n or_o determination_n of_o a_o general_a council_n which_o very_a say_n of_o he_o be_v enough_o to_o condemn_v you_o who_o will_v not_o acknowledge_v sufficient_a authority_n in_o tradition_n father_n or_o council_n to_o believe_v a_o thing_n which_o you_o like_v not_o but_o to_o make_v it_o plain_o appear_v how_o much_o you_o wrong_v peresius_n in_o bring_v he_o against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n i_o will_v bring_v a_o place_n 2._o leaf_n before_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o he_o it_o be_v this_o manifest_a habes_fw-la etc._n etc._n imag_n peres_n de_fw-fr tradit_fw-la cap._n the_o imag_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n have_v be_v universal_o in_o the_o church_n from_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o the_o disesteem_v of_o they_o begin_v from_o forlorn_a and_o infamous_a man_n 500_o year_n after_o the_o church_n be_v plant_v and_o true_o if_o the_o worship_n and_o reverence_n be_v do_v devout_o and_o sincere_o this_o institution_n be_v holy_a and_o profitable_a which_o both_o apostolic_a tradition_n have_v introduce_v the_o use_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n affirm_v the_o consent_n of_o very_o famous_a and_o general_a counsel_n both_o in_o the_o east_n and_o west_n be_v add_v thereto_o which_o also_o even_o natural_a reason_n do_v dictate_v thus_o far_o be_v peresius_n his_o own_o word_n whereby_o any_o man_n may_v see_v whether_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o deal_v well_o with_o he_o or_o not_o to_o pretend_v his_o authority_n against_o our_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n pp_n agobard_fw-mi de_fw-mi pick_v &_o imaginib_fw-la in_o bibl_a pp_n 18._o now_o for_o agobardus_n who_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v great_a acount_n of_o if_o you_o consider_v he_o a_o little_a better_a you_o will_v find_v little_a cause_n he_o write_v indeed_o a_o book_n de_fw-fr picturis_fw-la &_o imaginibus_fw-la the_o whole_a drift_n whereof_o be_v only_o against_o the_o idolatrical_a use_n or_o abuse_v of_o image_n against_o which_o he_o speak_v very_o much_o by_o occasion_n of_o some_o abuse_n in_o his_o time_n as_o it_o be_v meet_v he_o and_o every_o good_a man_n shall_v and_o for_o the_o same_o end_n he_o bring_v many_o authoritye_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n all_o which_o speak_v plain_o against_o idolatry_n and_o likewise_o he_o bring_v that_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n understand_v it_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n which_o i_o allege_v in_o my_o second_o answer_n to_o that_o canon_n before_o to_o wit_n for_o avoid_v superstition_n in_o some_o young_a and_o unexperienced_a christian_n convert_v from_o gentility_n but_o for_o those_o word_n which_o follow_v in_o your_o citation_n of_o he_o to_o wit_n these_o there_o be_v no_o example_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n or_o father_n for_o adoration_n of_o image_n i_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o he_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o they_o be_v not_o join_v with_o the_o former_a as_o you_o here_o join_v they_o thus_o indeed_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n habuerunt_fw-la antiqui_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la imagine_v vel_fw-la pictas_fw-la vel_fw-la sculptas_fw-la sed_fw-la causa_fw-la historiae_fw-la ad_fw-la
wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n for_o what_o be_v not_o those_o indulgence_n give_v to_o private_a man_n for_o satisfaction_n or_o in_o lieu_n of_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o they_o be_v to_o make_v by_o the_o canon_n and_o be_v not_o we_o mitigation_n of_o the_o same_o unless_o you_o put_v the_o force_n in_o this_o that_o there_o the_o punishment_n be_v only_o mitigate_v or_o lessen_v &_o that_o in_o our_o indulgence_n all_o be_v take_v away_o which_o yet_o be_v false_a on_o both_o side_n for_o neither_o in_o we_o be_v all_o the_o punishment_n take_v always_o away_o and_o in_o those_o sometime_o all_o be_v take_v away_o as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o corinthian_a who_o s._n paul_n do_v forgive_v without_o limitation_n beside_o this_o i_o do_v not_o imagine_v what_o you_o can_v mean_v in_o these_o word_n 4._o the_o difference_n also_o be_v not_o in_o the_o authority_n or_o power_n whereby_o this_o pardon_n be_v grant_v for_o than_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
most_o strong_a argument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n time_n out_o of_o mind_n and_o of_o consent_n that_o no_o man_n be_v find_v to_o have_v speak_v against_o it_o but_o only_o know_v haeretique_n such_o as_o the_o waldense_n who_o be_v the_o first_o impugner_n of_o indulgence_n 1_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 1_o therefore_o you_o be_v still_o out_o of_o your_o bias_n when_o you_o think_v to_o prove_v the_o novelty_n of_o our_o doctrine_n by_o our_o want_n of_o testimony_n of_o antiquity_n for_o though_o we_o have_v such_o testimony_n for_o superaboundant_a proof_n yet_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v thaught_v and_o practise_v in_o catholic_a church_n without_o any_o memory_n when_o it_o begin_v for_o that_o be_v s._n augustine_n rule_n continual_o to_o prove_v a_o thing_n not_o only_o ancient_a but_o even_o apostolical_a 10._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o your_o author_n in_o particular_a you_o bring_v durand_n in_o the_o first_o place_n say_v that_o there_o can_v be_v little_o say_v of_o certainty_n concern_v indulgence_n 2._o ap_fw-mi bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 2._o whereto_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v true_a durand_n do_v not_o speak_v so_o constant_o and_o resolute_o of_o the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o consist_v of_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o saint_n whereon_o indulgence_n be_v partly_o ground_v but_o he_o be_v far_o from_o any_o haeretical_a and_o pertinacious_a denial_n thereof_o much_o less_o of_o indulgence_n for_o suppose_v they_o as_o a_o thing_n most_o certain_a he_o dispute_v theological_a question_n of_o they_o as_o other_o divine_n of_o his_o time_n do_v and_o make_v this_o the_o first_o question_n 3._o dur._n in_o 4._o do_v 20._o q._n 3._o a_o aliquid_fw-la valeant_fw-la indulgentiae_fw-la whether_o indulgence_n avail_v any_o thing_n after_o the_o manner_n of_o school_n he_o put_v two_o argument_n against_o they_o in_o the_o first_o place_n and_o then_o come_v with_o his_o argument_n sed_fw-la contra_fw-la agree_v for_o the_o most_o part_n with_o his_o conclusion_n and_o agree_v express_o in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v thus_o in_o contrarium_fw-la est_fw-la generalis_fw-la consuetudo_fw-la &_o doctrina_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la quae_fw-la contineret_fw-la falsitatem_fw-la nisi_fw-la per_fw-la indulgentias_fw-la dimitteretur_fw-la aliquid_fw-la de_fw-la poena_fw-la peccatori_fw-la debita_fw-la on_o the_o contrary_n be_v the_o general_a custom_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n which_o will_v contain_v falsehood_n if_o some_o thing_n of_o the_o punishment_n dew_n to_o a_o sinner_n shall_v not_o be_v forgive_v by_o indulgence_n and_o then_o have_v set_v down_o his_o resolution_n that_o there_o can_v be_v much_o say_v of_o certain_a because_o neither_o the_o scripture_n make_v mention_n of_o they_o nor_o some_o holy_a father_n who_o he_o there_o name_v yet_o he_o conclude_v that_o 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name_n s._n ambrose_n s._n hilar._n s._n aug._n and_o s._n hierome_n only_o for_o example_n sake_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o present_o after_o he_o name_v s._n greg._n and_o say_v of_o he_o that_o he_o do_v institute_v indulgence_n at_o the_o station_n in_o rome_n so_o as_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o speak_v only_o of_o those_o 4._o not_o of_o all_o the_o father_n in_o general_n and_o so_o much_o for_o durand_n 11._o as_o for_o alphonsus_n à _fw-fr castro_n another_o of_o your_o author_n he_o deni_v not_o all_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o none_o of_o the_o rest_n do_v but_o only_o plain_a &_o express_v testimony_n and_o though_o he_o also_o confess_v the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o much_o in_o those_o ancient_a time_n as_o since_o yet_o he_o allow_v of_o they_o so_o far_o as_o to_o condemn_v any_o man_n for_o a_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v deny_v they_o these_o be_v his_o word_n indulgent_a alph._n a_o castr_n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la lib._n 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ex_fw-la stationibus_fw-la romae_fw-la frequentissimis_fw-la utrumque_fw-la colligi_fw-la potest_fw-la among_o the_o roman_n this_o use_n of_o indulgence_n be_v say_v to_o be_v most_o ancient_a as_o may_v be_v somewhat_o gather_v by_o the_o most_o frequent_a station_n at_o rome_n look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o a_o witness_n you_o have_v bring_v for_o yourself_o do_v you_o not_o see_v how_o new_a he_o make_v this_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n confess_v even_o the_o use_n of_o they_o to_o be_v most_o ancient_a and_o of_o many_o hundred_o year_n stand_v nay_o do_v he_o not_o in_o the_o same_o place_n acknowledge_v that_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a and_o first_o pope_n of_o that_o name_n do_v grant_v some_o indulgence_n which_o be_v above_o a_o thousand_o year_n do_v you_o not_o hear_v how_o much_o he_o give_v to_o the_o church_n acknowledge_v the_o practice_n thereof_o to_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n that_o whosoever_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n so_o practise_v be_v worthy_o to_o be_v count_v a_o haeretique_n what_o think_v you_o now_o of_o yourself_o to_o be_v call_v haeretique_n out_o of_o your_o own_o mouth_n as_o it_o be_v that_o be_v out_o of_o your_o author_n mouth_n who_o you_o bring_v for_o you_o for_o castro_n his_o authority_n then_o though_o it_o have_v be_v more_o for_o you_o then_o it_o be_v in_o this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n yet_o you_o have_v be_v better_o have_v let_v it_o alone_o then_o to_o have_v it_o with_o such_o a_o condition_n the_o like_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o every_o author_n you_o bring_v here_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n but_o that_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o stand_v so_o long_o upon_o examine_v every_o one_o in_o particular_a 12._o now_o after_o such_o good_a authoritye_n as_o you_o bring_v against_o indulgence_n you_o think_v you_o may_v with_o authority_n prate_v very_o free_o of_o the_o pope_n sell_v of_o indulgence_n and_o bring_v money_n to_o his_o own_o coffer_n by_o they_o but_o to_o that_o i_o 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riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o 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presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v 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be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
and_o you_o minister_n 14._o basil_n see_v tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 21._o epiph._n chrisost_o basil_n the_o particular_a testimony_n you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n to_o who_o i_o remit_v you_o only_o for_o s._n aug._n i_o can_v omit_v to_o make_v more_o particular_a mention_n of_o he_o in_o this_o place_n by_o reason_n of_o a_o certain_a sentence_n which_o you_o have_v bring_v in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o §_o as_o alsoe_o of_o every_o one_o of_o the_o 6._o 7._o damascen_n &_o alios_fw-la ap_fw-mi bell._n de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o forego_v §§_o still_o conclude_v with_o this_o say_n of_o that_o holy_a father_n sive_fw-la de_fw-la christo_fw-la five_o etc._n etc._n whether_o concern_v christ_n or_o concern_v the_o church_n or_o concern_v any_o other_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o our_o faith_n i_o will_v not_o say_v we_o who_o be_v no_o way_n to_o be_v compare_v to_o he_o that_o say_v but_o if_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n shall_v preach_v unto_o you_o beside_o what_o you_o have_v receive_v in_o the_o legal_a and_o evangelical_a scripture_n let_v he_o be_v anathema_n and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o for_o the_o most_o part_n add_v the_o particular_a controversy_n of_o that_o §_o as_o for_o example_n in_o this_o of_o indulgence_n you_o say_v if_o we_o or_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n preach_v unto_o you_o any_o thing_n concern_v the_o faith_n of_o indulgence_n beside_o that_o you_o have_v receive_v etc._n etc._n and_o so_o in_o every_o of_o the_o other_o particular_a point_n whereby_o you_o will_v persuade_v your_o reader_n that_o saint_n aug._n will_v have_v nothing_o believe_v but_o what_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o express_a word_n of_o scripture_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o your_o own_o conscience_n as_o bad_a as_o it_o be_v whither_o this_o be_v not_o damnable_a dishonest_a deal_v both_o towards_o s._n aug._n and_o towards_o your_o reader_n for_o if_o you_o have_v read_v s._n aug._n as_o you_o pretend_v how_o can_v you_o be_v ignorant_a how_o many_o point_n of_o faith_n he_o do_v defend_v against_o several_a haeretique_n either_o only_a or_o chief_o by_o the_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n 23._o de_fw-fr bap._n câ—nt_fw-la donat._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 7._o &_o lib._n 5._o cap._n 23._o as_o single_a baptism_n against_o the_o donatist_n consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n divinity_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o even_o unbegottenesse_n of_o the_o father_n the_o first_o person_n in_o trinity_n against_o the_o arrian_n and_o the_o baptism_n of_o child_n against_o pelagius_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a 118._o cont._n maxi._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o &_o ep_n 174._o de_fw-fr genes_n ad_fw-la literam_fw-la lib._n 10._o cap._n 23._o de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la ep_v 118._o observation_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o easter_n ascension_n whitsuntide_n and_o the_o like_a nay_o this_o truth_n be_v so_o ground_v with_o he_o that_o he_o count_v it_o most_o insolent_a madness_n to_o dispute_v against_o the_o common_a opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n with_o he_o as_o that_o he_o say_v in_o one_o place_n that_o when_o we_o follow_v it_o we_o follow_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n these_o be_v his_o word_n scripturarum_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la tenetur_fw-la veritas_fw-la cum_fw-la id_fw-la facimus_fw-la etc._n etc._n 33._o lib._n 1._o cont_n crescon_n cap._n 33._o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v hold_v by_o we_o when_o we_o do_v that_o which_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o church_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o do_v commend_v that_o because_o the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v deceive_v whosoever_o be_v afraid_a to_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n may_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n the_o which_o the_o holy_a scripture_n without_o any_o ambiguity_n do_v demonstrate_v unto_o we_o so_o he_o there_o and_o that_o it_o may_v far_o appear_v that_o to_o deny_v this_o authority_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o only_o to_o deny_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n but_o even_o of_o christ_n himself_o i_o can_v here_o omit_v to_o note_v a_o place_n of_o the_o same_o saint_n his_o book_n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la where_o he_o treat_v this_o very_a point_n very_o particular_o and_o excellent_o so_o as_o to_o take_v away_o all_o doubt_n of_o his_o opinion_n therein_o for_o here_o he_o do_v of_o purpose_n intend_v to_o show_v that_o where_o plain_a proof_n of_o scripture_n be_v want_v we_o must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n prove_v it_o thus_o by_o occasion_n of_o the_o question_n of_o rebaptisation_n and_o suppose_v that_o there_o be_v no_o proof_n of_o scripture_n either_o way_n puto_fw-la si_fw-la aliquis_fw-la sapiens_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o think_v say_v he_o if_o there_o be_v any_o wise_a man_n of_o who_o our_o saviour_n have_v give_v testimony_n to_o wit_n 22._o aug._n de_fw-fr vnit._n eccle_n cap_n 22._o of_o his_o wisdom_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v be_v ask_v in_o this_o question_n we_o shall_v not_o doubt_v to_o do_v what_o he_o shall_v say_v lest_o we_o shall_v seem_v to_o gainsay_v not_o he_o so_o much_o as_o christ_n by_o who_o testimony_n he_o be_v commend_v now_o christ_n bear_v witness_n of_o his_o church_n and_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o say_v that_o whosoever_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n do_v resist_v our_o saviour_n himself_o who_o by_o his_o testimony_n commend_v the_o church_n by_o which_o discourse_n and_o comparison_n any_o man_n may_v see_v that_o in_o s._n augustine_n judgement_n the_o church_n word_n be_v warrant_v by_o christ_n as_o much_o as_o if_o he_o shall_v have_v name_v any_o one_o man_n in_o particular_a who_o word_n he_o will_v make_v good_a and_o who_o consequent_o we_o shall_v follow_v &_o that_o by_o refuse_v or_o 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i_o take_v you_o in_o earnest_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o mean_v it_o and_o ask_v what_o certainty_n you_o or_o any_o protestant_n have_v or_o can_v have_v that_o you_o be_v christian_n if_o you_o think_v that_o your_o christianity_n depend_v upon_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n if_o you_o think_v it_o do_v not_o as_o it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o puritan_n indeed_o that_o baptism_n be_v not_o any_o cause_n of_o grace_n but_o only_o a_o sign_n or_o seal_n of_o the_o adoption_n which_o they_o receive_v by_o carnal_a propagation_n from_o their_o faithful_a parent_n and_o it_o seem_v also_o you_o by_o what_o you_o say_v both_o here_o and_o before_o in_o your_o 4._o §_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n if_o i_o say_v you_o think_v so_o than_o i_o confess_v you_o need_v not_o fear_v the_o minister_n want_n of_o intention_n but_o that_o pertain_v to_o another_o disputation_n but_o yet_o you_o have_v as_o little_a certainty_n or_o less_o of_o your_o 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you_o put_v it_o out_o from_o among_o the_o sacrament_n and_o of_o it_o i_o ask_v what_o certainty_n you_o can_v have_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o your_o own_o marriage_n or_o legitimation_n of_o you_o child_n you_o can_v say_v but_o the_o validity_n of_o that_o contract_n depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o party_n though_o not_o of_o your_o minister_n as_o we_o alsoe_o say_v it_o depend_v not_o upon_o the_o intention_n of_o our_o priest_n but_o of_o the_o party_n which_o marry_v which_o we_o say_v common_o be_v the_o minister_n in_o this_o sacrament_n wherefore_o if_o for_o example_n your_o wife_n have_v no_o intention_n when_o she_o speak_v the_o word_n of_o marriage_n it_o be_v no_o marriage_n but_o fornication_n and_o consequent_o your_o child_n be_v bastard_n nay_o though_o the_o matter_n shall_v have_v depend_v whole_o upon_o your_o own_o intention_n in_o your_o marriage_n and_o that_o you_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o sure_a of_o it_o than_o you_o 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this_o or_o that_o particular_a case_n for_o want_n of_o intention_n matter_n form_n or_o the_o like_a yet_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o providence_n of_o almighty_a god_n not_o to_o permit_v any_o universal_a or_o even_o great_a defect_n to_o happen_v and_o so_o though_o we_o be_v not_o certain_a by_o certainty_n of_o divine_a faith_n that_o this_o or_o that_o man_n in_o particular_a be_v true_o baptize_v and_o ordain_v a_o priest_n yet_o we_o be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o divine_a faith_n that_o not_o only_o there_o be_v such_o sacrament_n but_o that_o they_o be_v also_o true_o administer_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n so_o as_o there_o can_v be_v no_o danger_n of_o the_o fail_a of_o either_o or_o of_o any_o danger_n which_o may_v ensue_v thereupon_o to_o the_o notable_a prejudice_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n of_o soul_n and_o withal_o though_o we_o be_v not_o certain_a by_o certainty_n of_o faith_n of_o every_o particular_a yet_o we_o have_v moral_a certainty_n 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draw_v from_o authority_n for_o pauperis_fw-la est_fw-la numerare_fw-la pecus_fw-la it_o be_v the_o sign_n of_o a_o poor_a man_n to_o number_v his_o cattle_n thus_o you_o say_v of_o salmeron_n in_o a_o few_o line_n discover_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o falsehood_n for_o first_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o produce_v father_n against_o the_o conception_n of_o our_o lady_n that_o be_v no_o controversy_n between_o you_o and_o we_o but_o only_o among_o ourselves_o wherefore_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o consent_n of_o father_n it_o be_v not_o you_o that_o produce_v they_o but_o our_o own_o author_n you_o only_o out_o of_o the_o great_a good_a affection_n you_o bear_v forsooth_o to_o our_o b._n saviour_n be_v ready_a to_o embrace_v any_o opinion_n that_o may_v more_o derogate_v from_o the_o dignity_n of_o his_o bless_a mother_n but_o what_o do_v crow_n look_v for_o but_o carrion_n second_o it_o be_v false_a that_o salmeron_n acknowledge_v any_o such_o uniform_a consent_n of_o father_n 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follow_v curiosity_n become_v christian_n confess_v their_o deed_n and_o burn_v their_o book_n so_o we_o see_v afterward_o the_o book_n of_o arius_n be_v command_v to_o be_v burn_v and_o man_n forbid_v to_o keep_v they_o under_o pain_n of_o death_n 6._o socrat._v hist_o lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o and_o so_o of_o other_o which_o i_o will_v not_o here_o stand_v upon_o only_o content_v myself_o with_o one_o example_n of_o this_o kind_n which_o for_o the_o antiquity_n and_o authority_n may_v be_v both_o proof_n and_o warrant_n for_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n now_o at_o this_o time_n wherein_o the_o haeretique_n do_v so_o much_o cry_v out_o against_o the_o inquisition_n and_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la 2._o this_o example_n be_v that_o of_o gelasius_n 1_o pope_n about_o the_o year_n 490._o who_o in_o a_o council_n at_o rome_n gather_v for_o that_o end_n make_v a_o decree_n to_o declare_v what_o scripture_n be_v canonical_a what_o father_n and_o doctor_n may_v be_v safe_o 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upon_o so_o good_a reason_n as_o i_o presume_v no_o indifferent_a man_n that_o read_v they_o can_v disallow_v of_o they_o i_o will_v not_o therefore_o stand_v particular_o to_o examine_v every_o particular_a author_n and_o justify_v the_o inquisition_n for_o it_o will_v be_v both_o a_o long_a &_o needless_a labour_n only_o i_o can_v omit_v one_o author_n call_v bertram_n who_o to_o turn_v my_o speech_n to_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o think_v you_o among_o all_o man_n live_v shall_v never_o so_o much_o as_o name_n consider_v how_o much_o disgrace_n you_o have_v sustain_v by_o translate_n his_o book_n and_o venture_v your_o own_o credit_n and_o the_o credit_n of_o your_o church_n upon_o the_o faith_n thereof_o and_o for_o he_o i_o answer_v that_o though_o his_o book_n be_v prove_v plain_o to_o contain_v good_a catholic_a doctrine_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o transubstantiation_n yet_o because_o it_o be_v obscure_a in_o many_o place_n and_o thereby_o give_v occasion_n of_o err_a and_o indeed_o be_v of_o uncertain_a authority_n this_o only_a be_v certain_a that_o it_o have_v be_v in_o this_o last_o age_n publish_v by_o haeretique_n we_o know_v not_o out_o of_o what_o record_v with_o some_o error_n of_o their_o own_o insert_v therefore_o it_o may_v well_o be_v forbid_v by_o the_o inquisition_n but_o i_o say_v you_o shall_v of_o all_o man_n live_v most_o labour_n to_o have_v the_o memory_n thereof_o blot_v out_o therewith_o to_o obliterate_v your_o own_o shame_n 4._o another_o thing_n which_o i_o be_o also_o to_o note_n be_v concern_v your_o cote_n of_o a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n in_o this_o section_n whereat_o i_o wonder_v that_o the_o inquisition_n have_v say_v nothing_o to_o it_o why_o you_o shall_v reckon_v it_o here_o among_o such_o author_n as_o you_o say_v be_v raze_v or_o clip_v by_o the_o inquisition_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o it_o be_v that_o you_o say_v to_o it_o you_o cite_v the_o canon_n thus_o in_o english_a only_o we_o ought_v not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o invocate_v angel_n say_v withal_o that_o in_o the_o same_o council_n publish_v by_o merlin_n and_o crabbe_n by_o change_n of_o a_o letter_n angelos_n be_v turn_v into_o angulos_fw-la angel_n into_o angle_n and_o corner_n thus_o that_o we_o must_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angle_n or_o corner_n and_o this_o say_v you_o lest_o so_o fair_a a_o evidence_n of_o a_o ancient_a council_n shall_v be_v produce_v against_o invocation_n of_o angel_n council_n v._o bin._n to_o 1._o council_n thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_z wherein_o first_o be_v to_o be_v note_v your_o error_n in_o chronology_n concern_v the_o time_n of_o this_o council_n which_o you_o make_v to_o be_v the_o year_n 368._o which_o be_v 43._o 35._o con._n laodien_n can_v 35._o year_n after_o the_o 1._o council_n of_o nice_a whereas_o it_o be_v celebrate_v before_o that_o council_n second_o your_o corruption_n in_o the_o translation_n and_o cut_n of_o of_o the_o canon_n which_o be_v thus_o non_fw-la oportet_fw-la relicta_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la ad_fw-la angelos_n abominandae_fw-la idolatriae_fw-la congregrationes_fw-la facere_fw-la quicunque_fw-la autem_fw-la inventus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la occultae_fw-la huic_fw-la idololaetriae_fw-la vacans_fw-la anathema_n sit_fw-la quoniam_fw-la relinquens_fw-la dominum_fw-la jesum_fw-la christum_fw-la filium_fw-la dei_fw-la accessit_fw-la ad_fw-la idola_fw-la no_o man_n must_v leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n make_v congregation_n to_o the_o angel_n of_o abominable_a idolatry_n and_o whosoever_o shall_v be_v find_v exercise_v this_o secret_a idolatry_n let_v he_o be_v anathema_n because_o leave_v jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n he_o have_v come_v to_o idol_n now_o where_o in_o this_o canon_n do_v you_o find_v the_o word_n invocation_n of_o angel_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v forbid_v and_o much_o less_o do_v you_o find_v such_o invocation_n of_o angel_n as_o we_o use_v for_o in_o this_o canon_n be_v only_o forbid_v such_o idolatrical_a invocation_n as_o the_o simonian_n and_o other_o haeretique_n do_v use_v praefer_v the_o angel_n before_o christ_n and_o make_v they_o the_o creator_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o only_a or_o chief_a mediator_n without_o who_o help_n there_o be_v no_o access_n to_o be_v have_v to_o god_n which_o be_v the_o same_o wicked_a haeresy_n which_o saint_n paul_n speak_v against_o coloss_n 2._o as_o all_o interpreter_n understand_v he_o by_o who_o word_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o those_o haeretique_n leave_v christ_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angel_n in_o this_o sense_n nemo_fw-la vos_fw-la seducat_fw-la non_fw-la tenens_fw-la caput_fw-la etc._n etc._n let_v no_o man_n seduce_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o head_n that_o be_v not_o hold_v by_o christ_n now_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o we_o by_o invocation_n of_o angel_n forsake_v christ_n
uncertainty_n and_o novelty_n of_o his_o own_o for_o which_o end_n you_o produce_v 8._o several_a place_n six_z whereof_o i_o have_v answer_v before_o and_o there_o also_o show_v that_o some_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n to_o the_o purpose_n other_o most_o gross_o falsify_v the_o 1._o place_n to_o wit_n that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o faith_n because_o he_o can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o minister_n intention_n be_v answer_v and_o prove_v most_o foolish_a chap._n 10._o n._n 7.8_o etc._n etc._n the_o second_o place_n which_o be_v of_o transubstantiation_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n confess_v it_o probable_a that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n be_v answer_v in_o cap._n 9_o §_o 2._o n._n 22._o concern_v which_o i_o only_o note_v that_o in_o this_o place_n you_o have_v a_o new_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellar._n say_v only_o that_o it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o place_n of_o scripture_n so_o plain_a as_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n to_o enforce_v transubstantiation_n because_o some_o learned_a man_n as_o scotus_n do_v doubt_v thereof_o though_o bell._n say_v to_o he_o the_o scripture_n seem_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v it_o here_o you_o make_v he_o say_v it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v it_o which_o be_v clean_o another_o thing_n for_o to_o enforce_v a_o sense_n &_o bear_v a_o sense_n be_v two_o several_a thing_n neither_o do_v scotus_n or_o any_o divine_a else_o ever_o make_v question_n but_o that_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v that_o sense_n but_o whither_o that_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o obvious_a a_o sense_n as_o of_o itself_o to_o enforce_v the_o belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n the_o 3._o 10._o bell._n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 9_o &_o 10._o place_n which_o be_v of_o mass_n without_o communicants_n i_o pass_v over_o before_o as_o impertinent_a to_o the_o purpose_n and_o so_o i_o may_v do_v here_o but_o for_o the_o reader_n be_v full_a satisfaction_n i_o answer_v bellarmine_n say_v that_o mass_n be_v ordain_v both_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o god_n and_o to_o nourish_v the_o people_n with_o spiritual_a food_n in_o which_o respect_n as_o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o offer_v it_o to_o god_n though_o there_o be_v none_o to_o communicate_v but_o very_o lawful_a good_a and_o holy_a so_o be_v it_o more_o perfect_a and_o as_o i_o may_v say_v in_o a_o certain_a sort_n more_o lawful_a where_o be_v some_o to_o communicate_v for_o than_o it_o have_v both_o the_o end_n for_o which_o it_o be_v ordain_v now_o what_o do_v this_o make_v for_o you_o sir_n knight_n or_o against_o we_o as_o also_o that_o which_o follow_v here_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o express_a mention_n among_o the_o ancients_n where_o none_o do_v communicate_v but_o the_o priest_n alone_o but_o only_a conjecture_n for_o no_o more_o be_v there_o any_o express_a mention_n to_o the_o contrary_a that_o no_o priest_n may_v nor_o ever_o do_v say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n which_o unless_o you_o can_v show_v in_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o neither_o if_o you_o can_v show_v it_o shall_v you_o therefore_o say_v any_o thing_n for_o your_o own_o sacrificelesse_a communion_n which_o have_v no_o affinity_n with_o our_o mass_n the_o essence_n whereof_o consist_v in_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o communion_n in_o be_v a_o participation_n of_o the_o same_o sacrifice_n your_o protestant_a communion_n be_v but_o a_o bit_n of_o unblessed_a bread_n and_o no_o participation_n of_o sacrifice_n for_o you_o absolute_o deny_v all_o manner_n of_o visible_a sacrifice_n in_o the_o church_n now_o for_o bellarmine_n conjecture_n it_o be_v true_a he_o give_v they_o no_o other_o name_n but_o of_o conjecture_n but_o they_o be_v such_o as_o may_v with_o great_a probability_n persuade_v any_o indifferent_a man_n to_o conclude_v that_o many_o time_n and_o i_o may_v say_v much_o more_o frequent_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n then_o with_o they_o and_o the_o lest_o of_o they_o be_v such_o that_o if_o you_o have_v but_o half_a such_o a_o one_o for_o any_o point_n you_o hold_v you_o will_v vaunt_v it_o and_o triumph_n as_o if_o you_o have_v a_o unanswearable_a demonstration_n but_o be_v it_o so_o or_o be_v it_o not_o of_o some_o of_o the_o people_n communicate_v whensoever_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n what_o make_v it_o to_o our_o purpose_n which_o be_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n or_o not_o they_o do_v not_o will_v you_o say_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o ask_v what_o then_o may_v not_o we_o now_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n then_o must_v every_o body_n communicate_v now_o therefore_o every_o day_n all_o give_v their_o good_n away_o and_o live_v in_o common_a must_v every_o body_n do_v so_o now_o i_o believe_v sir_n knight_n you_o will_v not_o like_v that_o so_o well_o if_o the_o people_n devotion_n grow_v so_o cold_a as_o not_o to_o participate_v sacramental_o of_o the_o sacrifice_n must_v the_o priest_n grow_v so_o cold_a also_o as_o not_o even_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o his_o own_o and_o the_o people_n sin_n this_o be_v no_o good_a council_n sir_n humphrey_n almighty_a god_n reprehend_v it_o by_o his_o prophet_n 24.2_o isay_n 24.2_o that_o the_o priest_n be_v grow_v like_o the_o people_n sicut_fw-la populus_fw-la sic_fw-la sacerdos_n we_o can_v be_v glad_a sir_n if_o you_o can_v help_v to_o mend_v the_o people_n but_o not_o mar_v the_o priest_n which_o you_o will_v do_v enkindle_v their_o devotion_n not_o destroy_v their_o faith_n nor_o take_v away_o the_o holy_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n which_o afford_v many_o benefit_n even_o to_o not_o communicant_n though_o not_o so_o much_o as_o to_o they_o that_o do_v communicate_v sacramental_o but_o what_o do_v i_o in_o this_o discourse_n here_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o show_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o patronize_v you_o nor_o weaken_v us._n the_o two_o place_n follow_v touch_v prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n and_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v also_o answer_v before_o &_o be_v only_o of_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o argument_n with_o this_o the_o 6._o place_n which_o be_v as_o if_o bell._n teach_v your_o two_o sacrament_n be_v answer_v in_o two_o place_n upon_o several_a occasion_n fine_n chap._n 9_o §._o 4_o fine_a and_z ch_z 10._o fine_n and_o in_o both_o be_v show_v your_o notorious_a corruption_n both_o of_o word_n &_o sense_n 2._o now_o for_o your_o two_o last_o testimony_n which_o you_o bring_v not_o before_o i_o shall_v here_o examine_v one_o you_o tell_v we_o be_v touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n of_o which_o say_v you_o it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n 6._o bell_n lib._n 3._o the_o â—ustif_a cap._n 6._o that_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o faith_n &_o repentance_n be_v requisite_a that_o be_v a_o lively_a faith_n and_o earnest_a repentance_n and_o that_o without_o they_o no_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o you_o propound_v the_o matter_n very_o imperfect_o and_o ignorant_o in_o say_v thus_o touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n etc._n etc._n not_o tell_v we_o the_o particular_a controversy_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v this_o say_n of_o bellarmine_n there_o be_v more_o controversy_n than_o one_o between_o you_o and_o we_o as_o whither_o any_o thing_n be_v needful_a to_o justification_n beside_o faith_n or_o what_o faith_n it_o be_v that_o justifi_v and_o how_o and_o whither_o good_a work_n be_v necessary_a or_o no_o and_o how_o they_o concur_v for_o there_o be_v all_o these_o thing_n and_o more_o in_o question_n between_o you_o and_o us._n and_o a_o man_n will_v have_v think_v by_o your_o general_a title_n of_o faith_n and_o work_v it_o have_v be_v in_o proof_n of_o some_o of_o these_o that_o you_o have_v bring_v bellarm._n but_o it_o be_v for_o no_o such_o matter_n bellarmine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v handle_v a_o clean_a different_a question_n to_o wit_n whether_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o own_o grace_n and_o justice_n that_o be_v whether_o he_o be_v in_o the_o grace_n and_o favour_n of_o almighty_a god_n or_o not_o and_o for_o proof_n that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a thereof_o he_o bring_v diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n which_o imply_v a_o condition_n on_o our_o part_n in_o our_o justification_n as_o if_o we_o turn_v to_o god_n if_o we_o seek_v he_o in_o our_o whole_a hart_n if_o we_o do_v penance_n if_o we_o believe_v if_o we_o do_v his_o will_n etc._n etc._n god_n will_v turn_v to_o we_o forgive_v our_o sin_n and_o the_o like_a which_o condition_n say_v
the_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n and_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n as_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v to_o give_v his_o life_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n whereas_o he_o ask_v whether_o any_o of_o these_o 33._o be_v canonize_v for_o it_o it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o man_n be_v canonize_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o belief_n only_o but_o for_o practice_v of_o faith_n hope_n charity_n and_o all_o virtue_n together_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o holy_a and_o christian_a life_n in_o general_a and_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o special_a mention_n of_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o their_o adoration_n of_o image_n yet_o define_v which_o before_o be_v not_o and_o which_o then_o man_n be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o nor_o so_o bind_v to_o believe_v as_o after_o so_o consequent_o man_n may_v be_v less_o bind_v to_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o then_o then_o afterward_o and_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o those_o that_o come_v after_o so_o long_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o church_n and_o live_v in_o the_o unity_n thereof_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o determine_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a those_o ancient_a martyr_n do_v as_o appear_v both_o by_o their_o own_o writing_n yet_o extant_a and_o their_o deed_n record_v by_o other_o man_n in_o good_a authentical_a history_n these_o holy_a martyr_n therefore_o be_v true_o we_o which_o if_o this_o knight_n will_v disprove_v he_o must_v show_v which_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v otherwise_o that_o be_v against_o that_o uhich_v we_o now_o believe_v which_o till_o he_o can_v do_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v in_o possession_n of_o our_o martyr_n and_o of_o their_o faith_n our_o faith_n testify_v that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n and_o their_o blood_n give_v testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o faith_n of_o the_o 17._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 17._o chap._n 17._o our_o adversary_n common_a objection_n draw_v from_o the_o charitable_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n touch_v the_o salvation_n of_o profess_a romanist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o church_n answer_v chapter_n xvii_o 1._o this_o section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o natural_a language_n and_o therefore_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v he_o begin_v with_o a_o say_n of_o costerus_n that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o lutheran_n can_v be_v save_v whereupon_o he_o fall_v in_o to_o a_o great_a rage_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v a_o woman_n a_o church_n a_o city_n which_o reign_v over_o the_o king_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o have_v multitude_n of_o nation_n at_o her_o command_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n his_o church_n be_v not_o such_o a_o one_o neither_o do_v protestans_fw-la as_o he_o say_v account_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o their_o church_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o fall_v to_o reckon_v up_o diverse_a particular_a point_n of_o his_o church_n doctrine_n as_o disclaim_v of_o merit_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n read_v of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o scripture_n for_o each_o of_o these_o he_o ask_v very_o rhetorical_o after_o every_o one_o whether_o they_o be_v accurse_v for_o hold_v they_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n ask_v whether_o we_o can_v be_v bless_v that_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n that_o have_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n adore_v image_n adore_v saint_n adore_v the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n we_o that_o add_v tradition_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o detract_v from_o god_n commandment_n and_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o discourse_n of_o his_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o it_o be_v a_o man_n may_v think_v it_o folly_n for_o i_o to_o stand_v answer_v particular_o therefore_o i_o answer_v brief_o and_o in_o general_a first_o that_o though_o it_o take_v up_o half_a his_o section_n yet_o it_o be_v whole_o from_o his_o purpose_n which_o he_o pretend_v by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o objection_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o he_o object_v unto_o we_o they_o be_v all_o answer_v before_o and_o prove_v some_o false_a for_o the_o thing_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v we_o all_o absurd_a if_o we_o consider_v the_o proof_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o example_n he_o tell_v we_o we_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n both_o which_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a for_o how_o many_o catholic_n be_v there_o in_o england_n man_n and_o woman_n marry_v and_o what_o meat_n be_v there_o that_o catholic_n be_v forbid_v to_o eat_v in_o due_a time_n and_o season_n be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n to_o some_o man_n to_o wit_n such_o as_o have_v voluntary_o promise_v the_o contrary_a and_o some_o meat_n at_o some_o time_n all_o one_o i_o say_v as_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n neither_o marriage_n nor_o meat_n be_v forbid_v in_o these_o case_n as_o ill_o in_o themselves_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o saint_n paul_n term_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n but_o for_o high_a end_n but_o to_o make_v he_o yet_o a_o little_a more_o capable_a of_o this_o answer_n i_o will_v urge_v he_o with_o one_o ordinary_a instance_n which_o be_v this_o i_o presume_v his_o father_n have_v some_o apprentice_n bind_v not_o to_o marry_v during_o his_o apprenticeship_n i_o will_v then_o know_v of_o he_o whither_o his_o father_n in_o that_o case_n do_v forbid_v marriage_n and_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n 2._o against_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n he_o say_v it_o be_v write_v with_o man_n of_o other_o tongue_n and_o other_o lip_n will_v i_o speak_v unto_o this_o people_n and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o hear_v i_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o curse_n at_o the_o build_n of_o babel_n for_o they_o that_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v speak_v but_o by_o this_o allege_v of_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o a_o good_a thing_n it_o be_v to_o have_v it_o in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n for_o every_o man_n to_o read_v and_o abuse_v it_o at_o his_o pleasure_n when_o such_o a_o right_n learned_a man_n as_o this_o knight_n do_v so_o strange_o apply_v it_o he_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v esay_n the_o prophet_n speak_v against_o latin_a in_o this_o place_n but_o the_o man_n be_v quite_o wide_a of_o his_o mark_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o he_o that_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o strange_a tongue_n there_o for_o as_o for_o the_o sense_n he_o care_v not_o or_o rather_o his_o read_n reach_v not_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n which_o be_v but_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o people_n laugh_v at_o the_o prophet_n that_o come_v to_o they_o with_o command_n from_o god_n repeat_v their_o word_n scoff_o manda_fw-la remanda_fw-fr 28.11_o isa_n 28.11_o expecta_fw-la reexpecta_fw-la etc._n etc._n god_n send_v they_o word_n by_o the_o prophet_n that_o because_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v those_o word_n nor_o follow_v the_o good_a counsel_n which_o he_o give_v he_o will_v speak_v another_o word_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v fall_v &_o be_v catch_v crush_v and_o carry_v into_o captivity_n and_o there_o hear_v a_o language_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o prophet_n s._n paul_n indeed_o use_v it_o in_o another_o sense_n to_o persuade_v the_o corinthian_n that_o prophecy_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o tongue_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n be_v a_o sign_n for_o infidel_n that_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o infidel_n for_o their_o conversion_n but_o prophecy_n that_o be_v exhortation_n or_o interpretation_n be_v for_o the_o faithful_a or_o those_o that_o believe_v already_o wherein_o i_o will_v know_v according_a to_o either_o explication_n what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v against_o prayer_n in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o tower_n of_o babel_n the_o knight_n sure_o speak_v by_o contrary_n for_o whereas_o at_o babel_n man_n fall_v from_o unity_n of_o language_n to_o speak_v every_o man_n a_o several_a language_n so_o as_o no_o one_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o &_o by_o that_o mean_v they_o be_v all_o disperse_v into_o several_a nation_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v quite_o contrary_a draw_v several_a nation_n to_o unity_n of_o language_n make_v all_o to_o speak_v one_o and_o the_o sâ—me_a tongue_n whereas_o haeretique_n in_o several_a place_n by_o use_n of_o other_o language_n understand_v not_o one_o the_o other_o and_o therein_o most_o perfect_o resemble_v the_o babel-builder_n as_o well_o in_o the_o very_a diversity_n of_o tongue_n as_o in_o the_o diversity_n of_o
will_v give_v he_o leave_v to_o take_v he_o for_o his_o own_o to_o increase_v his_o church_n and_o make_v up_o his_o number_n of_o learned_a man_n for_o no_o man_n but_o a_o haeretique_n can_v dispute_v against_o what_o be_v once_o define_v catholic_a doctor_n may_v indeed_o differ_v in_o opinion_n so_o long_o as_o a_o thing_n be_v undefined_a for_o so_o long_o it_o be_v not_o faith_n but_o when_o it_o be_v once_o define_v they_o must_v be_v silent_a and_o concur_v all_o in_o one_o because_o than_o it_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n which_o agreement_n and_o concurrence_n of_o opinion_n in_o such_o a_o case_n show_v there_o be_v still_o before_o a_o kind_n of_o radical_a union_n that_o be_v a_o praeparation_n of_o mind_n or_o promptness_n to_o submit_v to_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n when_o it_o shall_v show_v itself_o wherefore_o whatsoever_o he_o or_o any_o man_n else_o shall_v say_v of_o our_o difference_n be_v but_o argument_n for_o the_o unity_n and_o certainty_n of_o our_o belief_n 4._o now_o for_o his_o review_v of_o all_o he_o 8._o point_n it_o be_v but_o a_o review_v indeed_o wherein_o he_o take_v all_o that_o he_o say_v before_o for_o true_a as_o if_o he_o have_v carry_v all_o smooth_a before_o he_o which_o prove_v quite_o contrary_a all_o this_o review_v and_o discourse_v build_v thereon_o fall_v to_o the_o ground_n neither_o will_v i_o stand_v examine_v they_o all_o here_o again_o but_o remit_v the_o reader_n to_o what_o be_v say_v particular_o of_o each_o one_o in_o his_o own_o place_n only_o here_o i_o will_v reflect_v upon_o his_o conclusion_n which_o be_v a_o witness_v of_o man_n and_o angel_n that_o we_o have_v no_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n for_o proof_n of_o our_o article_n for_o his_o protestation_n and_o witnessing_n there_o be_v many_o example_n go_v before_o which_o show_n how_o foolish_a false_a and_o hypocritical_a they_o be_v of_o this_o therefore_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o it_o may_v go_v with_o the_o rest_n but_o i_o ask_v he_o how_o he_o prove_v we_o have_v no_o antiquity_n for_o his_o first_o point_n he_o labour_v to_o prove_v against_o our_o justification_n by_o word_n out_o of_o a_o ritual_a in_o s._n anselmes_n day_n some_o five_o hundred_o year_n since_o that_o the_o sick_a party_n be_v to_o put_v all_o his_o trust_n in_o christ_n merit_n which_o thing_n i_o show_v to_o be_v nothing_o against_o us._n wherein_o then_o have_v he_o derogate_a from_o the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o our_o doctrine_n and_o though_o that_o proof_n have_v be_v good_a that_o be_v to_o say_v against_o what_o we_o teach_v of_o justification_n what_o can_v the_o bare_a authority_n of_o so_o late_a a_o work_n have_v prejudice_v our_o antiquity_n which_o we_o maintain_v 1000_o year_n before_o that_o time_n or_o what_o can_v that_o doctrine_n teach_v in_o such_o a_o obscure_a book_n of_o i_o know_v not_o who_o writing_n nor_o of_o what_o authority_n and_o but_o in_o a_o corner_n of_o the_o world_n prejudice_n the_o universality_n of_o our_o doctrine_n teach_v in_o all_o time_n in_o all_o country_n by_o father_n and_o doctor_n in_o their_o several_a time_n and_o in_o general_a counsel_n or_o do_v it_o show_v his_o doctrine_n to_o be_v ancient_a because_o it_o be_v teach_v 500_o since_o or_o universal_a because_o it_o be_v teach_v in_o england_n noe_o such_o matter_n in_o his_o second_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n he_o bring_v one_o man_n say_v the_o word_n of_o consecration_n do_v not_o of_o themselves_o without_o the_o explication_n of_o the_o church_n prove_v the_o realnes_n of_o christ_n praesence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n another_o man_n say_v they_o do_v not_o prove_v transubstantiation_n or_o that_o it_o be_v define_v but_o in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n about_o 500_o year_n ago_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v again_o that_o those_o one_o or_o two_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o in_o the_o point_n of_o controversy_n with_o haeretique_n and_o even_o in_o that_o which_o they_o teach_v contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o divine_n though_o in_o matter_n not_o define_v we_o say_v they_o be_v reprove_v not_o by_o one_o or_o two_o but_o by_o all_o the_o whole_a current_n of_o catholic_a divine_n what_o be_v this_o then_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o doctrine_n or_o do_v it_o prove_v his_o doctrine_n to_o be_v ancient_a or_o universal_a nay_o do_v it_o prove_v it_o any_o doctrine_n at_o all_o for_o what_o can_v any_o man_n tell_v by_o this_o what_o he_o believe_v much_o less_o whither_o it_o be_v true_a or_o no_o which_o he_o believe_v may_v not_o another_o man_n that_o deni_v the_o protestant-lord's-supper_n prove_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n or_o rather_o his_o denial_n of_o doctrine_n as_o the_o knight_n do_v he_o and_o by_o the_o same_o argument_n because_o a_o man_n deni_v one_o point_n of_o we_o do_v he_o present_o allow_v all_o he_o may_v not_o he_o find_v a_o three_o way_n of_o his_o own_o different_a from_o both_o and_o if_o the_o reader_n please_v to_o mark_v it_o all_o the_o knight_n proof_n of_o antiquity_n be_v the_o denial_n or_o doubt_n make_v by_o some_o one_o of_o our_o writer_n though_o that_o one_o of_o we_o be_v much_o more_o against_o he_o in_o other_o thing_n as_o a_o man_n may_v see_v both_o in_o caietane_n scotus_n and_o the_o rest_n as_o i_o say_v before_o his_o discourse_n then_o in_o this_o be_v as_o devoid_a of_o reason_n as_o his_o doctrine_n be_v of_o antiquity_n 5._o in_o his_o â—_o point_n he_o bring_v a_o great_a many_o authoritye_n to_o prove_v that_o ancient_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n with_o the_o priest_n which_o we_o grant_v and_o ask_v again_o what_o this_o derogate_v from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o doctrine_n or_o how_o it_o prove_v that_o a_o priest_n be_v bind_v to_o forbear_v say_v mass_n if_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o communicate_v or_o that_o it_o be_v ill_a and_o unlawful_a for_o he_o to_o say_v mass_n in_o that_o case_n or_o how_o it_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n that_o deni_v all_o mass_n nay_o do_v not_o we_o moreover_o ex_fw-la abundanti_fw-la prove_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o people_n daily_a communion_n do_v cease_v even_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o yet_o that_o some_o priest_n do_v say_v mass_n daily_a do_v not_o we_o then_o prove_v our_o antiquity_n not_o only_o by_o disproof_n of_o his_o erroneous_a novelty_n but_o even_o by_o positive_a proof_n draw_v from_o antiquity_n concern_v the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n he_o say_v some_o teach_v there_o be_v 3._o some_o 4._o some_o 5._o some_o 6_o that_o some_o say_v of_o this_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n other_o of_o that_o some_o say_v this_o sacrament_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o this_o place_n of_o scripture_n another_o not_o out_o of_o the_o other_o now_o suppose_v all_o this_o be_v true_a as_o i_o have_v disprove_v he_o almost_o in_o every_o word_n he_o say_v and_o show_v his_o folly_n do_v this_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n be_v not_o the_o number_n of_o 5._o or_o 6._o as_o far_o from_o his_o number_n of_o two_o as_o from_o we_o of_o 7._o and_o the_o number_n of_o 3._o or_o 4._o as_o incompatible_a with_o his_o number_n of_o two_o as_o with_o we_o of_o seven_o what_o madness_n be_v it_o then_o in_o a_o man_n to_o think_v by_o this_o disprove_v of_o our_o number_n to_o think_v his_o own_o to_o be_v so_o present_o prove_v as_o if_o a_o man_n can_v not_o deny_v 7._o but_o he_o must_v affirm_v only_o two_o for_o as_o for_o his_o proof_n out_o of_o some_o father_n name_v of_o two_o he_o confess_v other_o name_n three_o other_o 5._o some_o more_o some_o less_o which_o he_o bring_v to_o disprove_v our_o seven_o but_o how_o do_v it_o stand_v with_o his_o two_o so_o of_o his_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_a he_o say_v out_o of_o many_o of_o our_o author_n it_o be_v ancient_o use_v in_o both_o and_o we_o grant_v it_o but_o we_o say_v it_o be_v also_o use_v in_o one_o many_o time_n and_o may_v have_v be_v more_o and_o may_v also_o be_v now_o in_o one_o or_o both_o as_o it_o shall_v seem_v good_a to_o the_o church_n according_a to_o diverse_a circumstance_n in_o who_o power_n be_v the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n how_o do_v the_o affirm_v of_o the_o former_a part_n or_o deny_v of_o the_o late_a prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n which_o be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o administer_v in_o one_o kind_n for_o public_a prayer_n he_o say_v out_o of_o some_o of_o our_o author_n it_o be_v use_v in_o a_o know_a tongue_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n we_o grant_v it_o and_o say_v
it_o be_v so_o still_o for_o as_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v then_o the_o most_o know_a tongue_n in_o which_o only_a the_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o public_o read_v so_o the_o same_o language_n be_v still_o use_v partly_o because_o they_o be_v sacred_a and_o partly_o because_o they_o be_v most_o know_v what_o then_o make_v that_o against_o our_o latin_a mass_n or_o rather_o be_v it_o not_o a_o proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o disproof_n of_o his_o novelty_n against_o image-worship_n he_o talk_v of_o the_o 2._o commandment_n and_o the_o hate_n of_o the_o jew_n against_o image_n he_o bring_v the_o testimony_n of_o some_o haeretique_n against_o they_o and_o the_o say_n of_o some_o one_o divine_a of_o the_o manner_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o reprehension_n of_o other_o against_o the_o abuse_n commit_v in_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o out_o of_o all_o which_o set_v the_o testimony_n of_o haeretique_n a_o part_n i_o ask_v what_o he_o will_v conclude_v or_o how_o he_o disprove_v our_o worship_n which_o we_o allow_v or_o how_o the_o reprehension_n of_o abuse_n in_o some_o of_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o catholic_n suppose_v there_o be_v some_o such_o abuse_n prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o his_o image_n break_v or_o the_o truth_n and_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n though_o his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v but_o only_o the_o denial_n of_o we_o now_o we_o prove_v over_o and_o above_o out_o of_o ancient_a father_n and_o counsel_n the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o worship_v of_o saint_n and_o their_o picture_n last_o of_o indulgence_n he_o say_v out_o of_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n and_o father_n for_o the_o antiquity_n of_o they_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v that_o as_o this_o notwithstanding_o these_o very_a man_n do_v not_o deny_v the_o antiquity_n of_o indulgence_n for_o want_n of_o such_o proof_n so_o other_o also_o prove_v the_o ancient_a use_n of_o they_o even_o out_o of_o other_o most_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n howsoever_o the_o controversy_n among_o those_o divine_n be_v not_o of_o the_o indulgence_n themselves_o or_o doctrine_n but_o only_o of_o the_o use_n of_o they_o or_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o one_o or_o two_o divine_n do_v think_v amiss_o of_o they_o do_v that_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n may_v not_o those_o very_a divine_n be_v against_o he_o in_o other_o thing_n what_o ancient_a author_n of_o authority_n have_v he_o bring_v to_o prove_v his_o doctrine_n not_o durand_n nor_o any_o man_n else_o whosoever_o be_v by_o he_o pretend_v to_o think_v hard_a of_o they_o &_o though_o he_o have_v durand_n whole_o for_o he_o how_o can_v his_o bare_a authority_n or_o say_n make_v the_o deny_v doctrine_n ancient_a be_v but_o 400._o year_n ago_o or_o universal_a be_v but_o one_o man_n and_o contradict_v by_o other_o 6._o and_o thus_o have_v make_v a_o review_v opposite_a to_o he_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v shall_v move_v man_n much_o less_o angel_n to_o witness_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nay_o do_v not_o his_o manner_n of_o proof_n rather_o show_v the_o sleightnes_n and_o novelty_n thereof_o together_o with_o the_o strange_a vanity_n of_o a_o brave_a knight_n that_o brag_v his_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o father_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n praetend_v right_o to_o the_o father_n apostle_n and_o christ_n without_o show_v any_o shadow_n of_o succession_n that_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n which_o he_o be_v to_o have_v do_v here_o and_o indeed_o the_o only_a proper_a proof_n for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v profess_v right_a to_o such_o ancestor_n and_o this_o be_v indeed_o the_o proof_n which_o tertullian_n do_v exact_a at_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o haeretique_n who_o claim_v antiquity_n and_o will_v needs_o have_v their_o doctrine_n pass_v for_o apostolic_a because_o they_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n 32._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 32._o edant_fw-la ergo_fw-la say_v he_o origines_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la suarum_fw-la evoluant_fw-la ordinem_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la suorum_fw-la ita_fw-la per_fw-la successiones_fw-la ab_fw-la initio_fw-la decurrentem_fw-la ut_fw-la primus_fw-la ille_fw-la episcopus_fw-la aliquem_fw-la ex_fw-la apostolis_n etc._n etc._n let_v they_o show_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o church_n let_v they_o unroull_a or_o lay_v open_a the_o order_n or_o catalogue_n of_o their_o bishop_n so_o run_v by_o succession_n from_o the_o beginning_n that_o that_o first_o bishop_n have_v for_o author_n or_o praedessor_n some_o one_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n who_o yet_o have_v persevere_v with_o the_o apostle_n for_o in_o this_o manner_n the_o apostolic_a church_n draw_v down_o their_o pedigree_n as_o the_o church_n of_o smyrna_n recount_v polycarpe_n place_v by_o john_n the_o roman_a church_n clement_n ordain_v by_o peter_n &_o so_o other_o church_n show_v who_o they_o have_v have_v place_v bishop_n by_o the_o apostle_n as_o it_o be_v branch_n of_o the_o apostolical_a seed_n let_v the_o haeretique_n feign_v any_o such_o thing_n so_o he_o do_v you_o hear_v tertullian_n sir_n humphrey_n brag_v then_o if_o you_o think_v good_a still_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v that_o your_o church_n be_v ancient_o in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n father_n and_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n without_o show_v any_o such_o succession_n of_o bishop_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o apostle_n 7._o now_o than_o that_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o the_o certainty_n of_o your_o own_o belief_n let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o we_o wherewith_o you_o begin_v thus_o that_o for_o far_a proof_n of_o your_o cause_n you_o will_v give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n even_o of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n who_o without_o partiality_n will_v testify_v on_o your_o behalf_n that_o your_o church_n be_v build_v upon_o a_o more_o stable_n and_o sure_a foundation_n than_o the_o now_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v more_o fruiteful_a and_o profitable_a and_o every_o way_n more_o safe_a and_o comfortable_a for_o the_o belief_n of_o every_o christian_a and_o salvation_n of_o the_o believer_n which_o you_o prove_v lay_v way_n for_o a_o ground_n what_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o faith_n that_o he_o do_v receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o which_o one_o tenet_n you_o say_v we_o overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o true_a faith_n which_o you_o exemplify_v in_o baptism_n wherein_o if_o there_o want_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o baptizer_n the_o baptise_a be_v still_o a_o heathen_a and_o in_o state_n of_o damnation_n so_o of_o order_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o ordain_a fail_n it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n and_o consequenty_n if_o this_o intention_n be_v want_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o pope_n all_o succeed_a ordination_n will_v be_v void_a so_o also_o of_o matrimony_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n want_n it_o be_v but_o fornication_n etc._n etc._n thus_o you_o roll_v on_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o your_o discourse_n but_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o have_v a_o word_n or_o two_o with_o you_o before_o you_o go_v far_o you_o give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n wherein_o notwithstanding_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o you_o observe_v any_o order_n or_o number_n of_o your_o jurour_n as_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o jury_n whereupon_o i_o begin_v to_o think_v that_o you_o use_v this_o phrase_n of_o summons_n and_o grand_a inquest_n for_o the_o ever_o honour_a memory_n of_o your_o dear_a decease_a father_n who_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o famous_a grand_a jury_n man_n of_o middlesex_n in_o his_o time_n from_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v learn_v only_o the_o name_n of_o a_o grand_a inquest_n but_o not_o the_o right_a order_n of_o impanel_a your_o jury_n nor_o even_o the_o right_a number_n of_o your_o jurour_n the_o foreman_n of_o your_o jury_n though_o you_o call_v he_o not_o so_o be_v bellarmine_n who_o you_o make_v to_o give_v up_o his_o verdict_n against_o the_o certainty_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o he_o say_v no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n which_o you_o say_v overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o faith_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o good_a sir_n humphrey_n say_v true_o be_v you_o in_o earnest_n or_o in_o jest_n i_o think_v by_o the_o matter_n you_o shall_v mean_v only_o in_o jest_n it_o be_v so_o idle_a but_o though_o this_o be_v your_o best_a excuse_n yet_o because_o you_o may_v take_v that_o ill_a