enclined to them R. B. Here he untruly intimated that I said more who never said so much but only that she thought they lived strictlyer than we and fell in among them And now Reader I shall again tell thee my reasons for all that I said of her Mr. Joseph Baker then Preacher in Worcester a man of unquestionable Prudence and Credit now with Christ told me all that I have said of this Woman and that she had not been at Church of a long time before and was passing along the Streets and was suddenly moved to go in to the Church at Lecture time and that she was struck as aforesaid at the hearing of the Text and before Sermon was done could hardly forbear crying out in Church and that she had on the conceit of their strictness faln in among the Quakers and been often at their meetings but hearing them speak against Scriptures and Ministers was troubled and thought that they spake that which her experience would not suffer her to consent to and that she was like in these perplexities to fall into great Melancholy and her body also to be weakened by the troubles of her mind and that through his motion or perswasion she was desirous to speak with me I had no reason to deny belief to him When I came next to his house the Gentle-woman came to me and he and she together repeated the substance of all this again and she spake not a syllable against it And speaking a few words to disswade her from the Quakers in haste I never saw her more The said Mr. Baker told me after of all her sad and Melancholy abstinence and weakness and of Mr. Browne and Mr. Jordanes frequency with her And shortly after shewed me the Book with Mr. Brownes Epistle to it and told me that which they now thus quarrel with that Mr. Browne was one of the publishers of it and was for the doctrine in it Though I discerned by the Book that she her self was taken with that point These things I long heard affirmed and confirmed and never contradicted till this day and now you hear that the Timeing of Mr. Brownes Opinion and endeavours is all that they can say any thing against themselves And thus much I thought meet to say against their rash occasions on this by-occasion Sect. 94. R. B. p. 30. I have not yet done with Mr. Bagshaw He comes on again in a Postscript with more Untruths And first he tells you how little commendation it is to my honesty to have yet such easie access now to the Licensers and Press that he can Print two Books before another man can Publish a few sheets Answ 1. I never spake with the Licensor nor saw him And if neither of those two Books were Licensed when he wrote this at least is not this still a fearless heedless man 2. Is not Honesty among these men become a word of a new signification And is it any wonder if our dishonesty make us unworthy of their Communion when our honesty is questionable for the Licensing of our Books If it be a sign of dishonesty to do any thing which our Rulers will but allow of it may next be dishonesty to speak any thing that they think worthy to be believed and to Preach the Gospel if they do but allow it And may not your honesty be as reasonably questioned because you are suffered to Preach Sure the Licensers are not so bad men as to prove all dishonest whose Books they License Sect. 95. E. B. His last Book about the Sabbath might have been wholly spared Dr. Owen having judiciously and accurately handled that Question before him R. B. 1. The Wisdom from above is without partiality and without hypocrisie Was it a blot on Dr. Owens honesty that his Books are Licensed O forgetful man 2. Who made the Law that no man must write on a subject after Dr. Owen was Dr. Owen to be blamed for needless work because he wrote on the Sabbath after Dr. Bound Dr. Young Dr. Twisse Mr. Eaton Mr. Bifield Mr. Shephard and many more 3. Mine was Written and in the Press before Dr. Owens was abroad Though I had before seen Mr. Hughes his accurate Treatise that then came out Sect. 96. E. B. His last Book about the Sabbath doth make so full a discovery of Mr. Baxters spirit in pleading for Saints dayes that is for will-worship R. B. 1. Remember Reader that it is my own Book and not his that discovereth my spirit Fetch thy judgement of it thence and spare not 2. And if thou find cause to put down the Commemoration of the Powder-plot or such other dayes for fear of will-worship do not therefore renounce all see houres for secret and family-prayer and Lectures it being equally will-worship to appoint a set hour as a set day which God in Scripture hath not appointed Sect. 97. E. B. And in Atheistically arguing against the Divine and self-evidencing authority of the holy Scriptures which he doth for many pages together that henceforth I hope he will no longer be a Snare but justly he Rejected of all as one of the worst sort of Hereticks since under the notion of being a Christian and a Protestant be doth with his utmost industry and cunning labour to overthrow our foundation in that he puts the credit of Scripture on the Truth of History and denies any certainty but what may be gathered from that which dangerous doctrine I could not but warn thee Christian Reader as thou lovest thy peace and comfort as well as the truth of Christ that thou wilt diligently beware of And I must leave it to thee to judge whether that Conformity which such a person pleads for is not justly to be suspected R. B. Here are three more visible untruths in point of fact 1. That I argue against the Divine Authority of the Scripture yea or the self-evidencing either which I have written for at large in three several Treatises 1. In the 2d Part of my Saints Rest 2. In a Book called the Unreasonableness of Infidelity 3. In my Reasons of the Christian Religion most fully but never wrote a word against it 2. That I do with my industry and cunning labour to overthrow our foundation Hath this man written more for the foundation than those three Books 3. That I deny any certainty but what may be gathered from the truth of History For which he citeth not one word in which I ever said so nor can But the contrary is legible in the forecited Volumes at large As to the matter of his Accusation I will not here write another Book to tell men what I have written in the former Read my own words even those he accuseth and my Treatise for the Christian Religion and judge as you see Cause But for them that will believe him to save them the labour of reading it in my own Books as if another man were liker to tell
rightly what I have written than the Books themselves I leave them to judge and do as they are and as such men lead them And how far Tradition or History or Humane aide and Testimony is necessary to our Reception of the Scripture I have long agoe opened at large in the Preface to the second Part of my Saints Rest and shewed you that Dr. Whitaker Chemnitius Davenant Rob. Baronius and other Protestants usually say the same that I do and that otherwise by casting away such subordinate means Proud-ignorance and pievish wrangling will cut the throat of faith it self and undermine the Church of God Reader I will conclude also with an Admonition as my Accuser doth As thou lovest Christianity Scripture and thy soul take heed of those Ignorant destroying-defenders of the Scripture who would tell the Infidel world that they may continue Infidels till we can prove that the Scripture alone by its own light without humane Testimony History or Tradition will bring it self to all mens hands without mans bringing it and will translate it self without mans translating it or in the original tongues will make all English men and all that cannot read at all to understand it or being translated will tell you sufficiently which is the true translation and where the Translater failed or will tell you among many hundred divers Readings which is the right and which Copy is the truest and which particular text is uncorrupted or rightly translated For instance whether it should be in Luke 17. 37. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Matth. 24. 18. and Beza saith In uno exemplari apud Theophilactum Scriptum est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est Cadaver sicut etiam in nonnullis codicibus testatur selegisse Erasmus Videturque haec lectio magis accomodata c. Hundreds of such may be named And believe not these men till they can name you one man that ever knew before some man told him by the Book alone whether Esther and the Canticles were Canonical and the Book of Wisdom and Pauls Epistle to the Laodioaeans Apocryphal and knew what was the sense of the Original Text and what Copies and Readings and Translations were true and what false Yea or that knew these particular Books were the same that the Apostles wrote without alteration till some one told it them Would not that man reduce the Church into less than one single person who would have no man believe the Scripture nor take it for Gods word till he can do it without any help of man or humane History or Testimony or Tradition But of this I put him twenty Questions before It shall now suffice to tell you this much of the plain truth that such furious false Teachers as shall take the foresaid course may not utterly subvert your faith The Scripture and Christian Religion taken together as one frame or Body hath that in it self which may prove that frame and all the essential parts of our Religion to be of God And the true proof of the Divine Authority of the Scripture is by the evidence of the spirit not a new Revelation of the spirit But by a double Impression of Gods own Image made by the Holy Ghost one upon the Scripture it self The other by the Scripture in its continued efficacy on Belivers souls And both these Images are the Impresses of the Trinity of Divine Principles even of the Power Wisdom and Goodness of God which are unimitably done in both This is the true proof that Scripture is the word of God But this proof excludeth not but supposeth the Ministry and Testimony of man as a subservient help and means even to bring it to us to translate it to teach us how to know both the sense and verity of it and to testifie which is the true Canon Copies Reading Translation c. And they are ignorant subverting deceivers and destroyers of your souls who would separate the Word the Spirit and the Ministry which Christ hath conjoyned as necessary together for your faith and that would cast out subservient helps as unnecessary under pretence of the sufficiency of the Scripture As if Printing it were needless because Scripture is sufficient of it self And the fore-said self-evidencing Light is not sufficient without humane help and Testimony to make you know every Canonical Book from the Apocryphal nor to know the truest Copies in the Original nor the rightest readings nor this or that particular verse to be uncorrupted nor the translation to be true nor this or that to be the true meaning of the Greek or Hebrew word nor that the Minister readeth truly to the unlearned that cannot try it by his own skill nor read himself And he that would make the contrary supposition to be the foundation of your faith would destroy your faith the Church and you Postscript REader since the Writing of this two things have faln out which make it a more displeasing work to me than it was before And I am sorry that Mr. Bagshaw made it necessary The one is that as the current report saith he is again in Prison for Refusing the Oath of Allegiance And I naturally abhorre to trample upon a suffering person which hath caused me to say so little against the Armies and Sectarian miscarriages since their dissolution and dejection in comparison of what I did before in the time of their prosperity The other is The Printing of the Life of Mr. Vavasor Powel which hath so many good things in it that I fear lest the mention of his false Prophecies extorted by Mr. Bagshaw who first published also his name as the Author of them should abate their exemplary use But yet I must give this notice to forreigners and posterity that they must not judge either of the JUDGEMENT or the SUFFERINGS of the Non-conformists by these mens It is not for refusing the Oath of Allegiance that they are silenced and suffer as they do nor do they consent to the words which conclude the life of Mr. Powel That since such a time he hath learnt that we must pray for our present Rulers as sinners but not as Magistrates No man can truly say that such Doctrines as these have been proved against any considerable part of the Ministers that are now cast out or that they were deposed and silenced for such things seeing they commonly take the Oathes of Allegiance and Supremacy And how far the ejected Ministers of Scotland are from the Principles of Separation Mr. Browne a Learned Scottish Divine hath shewed in the Preface of a Learned Treatise Newly Published in Latine against Wolzogius and Velthusius even while he saith most against receding from a Reformation overthrowing the Tenents maintained by our two or three English Brownes which formerly were called Brownisme Though the same mans numerous reasonings against the derivation of the Magistrates Office from the Power of the Mediator I waite
A Second Admonition TO Mr. EDWARD BAGSHAW Written to call him to Repentance for many false Doctrines Crimes and specially fourscore palpable untruths in matter of fact deliberately published by him in two small Libels In which he exemplieth the Love-killing and depraving Principles of Church-dividers and telleth the World to what men are hasting when they sinfully avoid Communion with true Churches and Christians for tolerable faults With a Confutation of his Reasons for Separation Written to preserve the weak to resist the Dividing Temptations of the Imperious unskilful Clergy to revive our dying hopes of Concord and to vindicate the Non-conformable Ministers from the unjust imputation of Schismatical Principles By Richard Baxter a long-maligned and reâ—sted Endeavourer of the Churches Unity and Peace LONDON Printed for Nevill Simmons at the Three Crowns near Holborn-Conduit 1671. THE Contents A Preface to those that are inclined to Principles of Church Division and Separation containing twenty causes of that sin and some Notices of Mr. Bagshaw's two Libells To Mr. E. B. the grounds on which I go in dealing with him Why I answer him contrary to my former purpose Sect. 1. Of calling him Brother of a middle way Sect. 2. Whether every untruth be a lye Sect. 3. Of Scripture perfection Sect. 4. Of the design of my Book Sect. 6 7. Whether calling Dividers to Repent c. be to make them odious Sect. 8. Whether all they whose sin brings Judgements must be hated of all and killed Sect. 9 10. Whether I disclaimed any Activeness in the first War Sect. 15. Whether I approved of setting up Cromwell to be Protector and such like Sect. 20. My Repentance published at Mr. E. B. his invitation in four parts Of Mr. E. B. his former defence of me against the then Bishop of Worcester Sect. 21 22. Of Christs Temporal Reign and my judgement of it Sect. 24. Whether I meant it because I dare not own any persecuted truth Sect. 25. Whether I inveigh against sufferings Of sufferers temptations Sect. 26 c. His sinful excuse of Vavasor Powells three publick false Prophecies Sect. 29 c. His wholsome accusation of me as proud 1. For saying that I publickly communicated 2. For saying that many have written against me that expect clean contraries from me 3. For writing many Books Sect. 31. Of his accusation in general about Justification Sect. 33. Of the stating of the Question about separating principles Sect. 34 c. Many of his misreports about my stating it Sect. 38. His first Reason for separation examined viz. because every Parish Church is part of a Diocesane Church How far that is true or not Sect. 39. His second Reason that a Parish Minister is but a servant to the Diocesan Sect. 40. His third Reason Because Parish Ministers consent to silencing and persecution by open consent or pernicious silence Whether there be little difference between persecuting and not sharply reproving it Sect. 41. His fourth Reason that Parish Ministers enter sinfully and by a solemn Oath renounce their Christian liberty All sinners or sinful enterers not to be separated from Sect. 42. May not a true Church be called Defective and faulty Sect. 43. His further Reasons 1. That we know not how else to preserve our Christian liberty Whether all Christian liberty must be maintained and how Sect. 44. 2. Whether to be present where things are used in Gods Worship which he commanded not be a sin Sect. 45. 3. Whether if we separate not we sell the truth about Christs Soveraignty Sect. 46. His reason from Acts 15. retorted Sect. 47. He taketh not Corruption and Error as such without Imposition to be a sufficient ground of separation How he is himself an Imposer Sect. 48. The charge of Hypocrisie for joyning in what we approve not Sect. 49. That Christ called and designed not his Church to be impure and mixt considered Sect. 50. How far a Church is to be separated from for abetting sin Sect. 51. His grand answer to the example of Church-pollutions in Scripture that they were setled as to Officers and Ordinances rightly and so had a power to keep themselves clean c. considered What Power Ministers have now Whether the Ages following the first did fall into an Vniversal Innovation and degeneration in the Essentials of Order and Doctrine and Antichristianism and so Christ had no Church and was no Christ Whether Mr. E. B. be a Seeker and separate from all Churches as well as from all Parochial Sect. 52. Whether the necessity of separation because of the said Vniversal degeneration in Essentials continue still because we are reformed from Antichristianism but in some points Sect. 53. He granteth that neither Corruption barely nor Imposition barely is a ground for just separation But Imposing Error with a strong hand c. Sect. 54. His vain answer intimating that he is wiser herein than the Old Non-conformists Sect. 55. Of Arminianisme whether so pernicious as to exclude from communion Sect. 56. Of Free will and its power to receive Sect. 57. His ignorant calumny against me about Scripture perfection Sect. 58. Twenty Questions to him about various Readings and Copies c. Sect. 59. Of the Possibility of salvation for some called Papist Sect. 61. His former untruth that by Flesh I affirmed was only meant the sensitive Appetite defended by him by reciting my words which expresly confute his calumny Sect. 62. The Reason rendred by Mr. E. B. why he cast away my Book of Rest and refused to read it and yet is the Judge of it And my account of my dissent long ago from his Latin slender Discourse against Monarchy Sect. 63. His report of Mr. Herles and Mr. Cawdrys words against my Saints Rest Sect. 67 c. Many more of his Vntruths Sect. 74. More of his ignorant Calumny about Scripture perfection Sect. 75 76 c. More of the Nature of his Defences and Accusations Sect. 80. Five Vntruths delivered by the Letter published by him as written by a woman of Worcester with my sense of her case Sect. 81 c. Seven Vntruths published by him in his Brother Brownes Letter and the Confutation of their Calumnies Sect. 94. Mr. E. B. his new sort of Dishonesty charged on me because he saith I have access to the Licensers and Press Sect. 95. Whether it be culpable Vanity to write on the Sabbath after Dr. Owen as he thought Sect. 97. His calumny of my Atheistical arguing against the Divine and self-evidencing authority of the Scriptures and as one of the worst sort of Hereticks that under the notion of being a Christian and a Protestant do with my utmost industry and cunning labour to overthrow the Foundation and therefore am to be Rejected of all The case opened and the weak warned to take heed of them that would ignorantly draw them to be Infidels by subverting Christianity while they think themselves the chief or true defenders of it To those Readers who are most enclined to the
Principles of Church-division and censorious unwarrantable Separation I Know there is in Holiness a contrariety to sin and Heaven and Hell must finally shew the difference for ever And to reconcile them is as unpossible as to reconcile Light and Darkness I know that it is the endeavour of every faithful Minister of Christ to make this difference plainly known and in Doctrine and Discipline to separate the precious from the vile and to make ungodly men know that they are ungodly and to give to each their proper portion and to keep the Churches as clean as they can by lawful means I know that the ruine of this purging and differencing Discipline is a great part of the lamentable ruine of the Churches and occasioneth that scandal to the Mahometans and Heathens because of the wicked lives of Christians which is one of the greatest hinderances of their conversion And that all Christians should use their utmost skill and power to recover Religion to its primitive Purity and Splendour and Discipline to the most effectual regular exercise And I know that in mens private converse there must be a great care what company we converse with and especially whom we make our familiars And that to be indifferent and to intimate an equality or likeness of the godly and the wicked in doctrine communion and familiarity is a notable sign of an ungodly person And upon these accounts I know that when persons are newly recovered from ungodliness themselves they are very much inclined to fly from the company of such as far as their safety doth require And by this inclination and their ignorance they are frequently tempted to go further from them in Church communion than God alloweth them to do and instead of separating from them in their sin to separate from them in their duty and to separate from the Churches of Christ in his true worship because of the mixture and presence of the bad And this they are drawn to 1. By forgetting the Scripture pattern and state of the Churches even in the purest age and thinking only what they desire rather than what is to be expected or done 2. By forgetting the difference between the Church visible which is alwayes mixt with Hypocrites and offenders and the Church invisible which shall all be saved 3. By forgetting the difference between their private familiarity where they are choosers of their company themselves and their Church communion where the Pastors are the Rulers and Judges of the fitness of the members Or else not understanding that this use of the Keyes and judging of the fitness of the members is indeed the Pastors Office and not theirs 4. By not considering that nothing must be done by Discipline upon Offenders but in a course of Church-Justice upon due Accusations Summons Audience Proof and patient Admonition And not by casting out any irregularly upon the expectation of every one that will say that they are ungodly and scandalous 5. By forgetting the great difference between joyning with men in sinful actions and joyning with them in their duty in which they should be encouraged 6. By forgetting the great difference of keeping in our own place and duty though bad men are present and going out of our place and duty to joyn with them in sin 7. By forgetting that God will have all mens own wills by Choosing or Refusing to have more hand in their Welfare or Misery than other mens And if they mischoose the sin will be their own 8. By forgetting that God hath not left the Church at arbitrary liberty to judge any Godly or Ungodly at their pleasure But hath given us a set Test or Rule to judge them by which is their sober Profession of Consent to the Baptismal Covenant upon which the Adult and their Infants have right to Baptism And being Baptized have Right to Church Communion in all the Acts which their Age and Understanding makes them capable of And it is Church-tyranny to refuse such as shew this Title till they are openly proved to forfeit it by Impenitency in gross sin after publick admonition and due means This is the truth and the method of Christs discipline and the Rule of our Communion 9. By superstitious placing their Religion in indifferent and undertermined things and laying a greater stress on the words of prayer than there is cause Overvaluing their several outward forms expressions and orders in the worshipping of God when instead of provoking each other to faith and fervency to Love and to good works they place more of Godliness in words and circumstances which God hath certainly left free to every mans conscience than God doth place in them And one thinks that he is irregular that prayeth without a set form and another that he is ungodly that prayeth not by the Spirit who useth a set form when both do but speak their own superstition and make Laws and Rules which God never made Superstition and our own additions in Religion even in those that cry out much against it is the occasion of most of our Church-divisions One side supposeth every disorder or unfit expression in free prayer to be a greater fault than indeed it is And that its unlawful therefore to joyn with a Church that hath no set forms Another party supposeth the forms in the Church Lyturgy to be worse than they are and that it is unlawful to joyn in them or to receive the Lords Supper when they are used When as God hath neither tyed us to set forms nor from them save only as unsuitableness to any particular persons may make one less edifying than the other And both free prayers and set forms studied prayers and sudden prayers are all the work of man as to mans part and therefore they must needs be imperfect and faulty as man is And yet in both we may pray by the Spirit even with the holy and fervent desires which the Spirit exciteth in us And the Spirit may ordinarily be a Spirit of supplication in us and help our infirmities in the one way and in the other And therefore though I will not equall them For I prefer some mens free praying before any forms and I prefer the Common prayers before some mens free prayers yet I may say that I will neither Assent and Consent to every word in the one nor in the other no not of any man that ever I heard And yet I will not take it for unlawful to joyn with Church or Family or person in the one or in the other yea upon long experience if I had fully my own choice and liberty I would use free prayer one part of the day or one day and a well composed form another part because I see commodities by both and such inconveniences of either way alone as are if possible to be avoided But when the Mind hath received a prejudice against either way by Education Custom or former distastes no reason how clear soever will overcome it till age and
The word mixt is ambiguous and implyeth a double act one of the Impure part and that Christ designeth not but forbiddeth the other of the holy who joyn with some that are unholy and that in some Cases Christ commandeth and did practise himself 3. Without distinction indeed it should not be for Discipline is appointed to distinguish regularly 4. Take home the argument and try it on your self Whatever Church is such as Christ did not call and design it to be is not to be communicated with But a Church that hath an erroneous Preacher or an erroneous sinful people is such as Christ did not call or design it to be Ergo And will you then communicate with any in the world or any with you Sect. 50. E. B. p. 14. Though through the Corruption of men and negligence of Church-Officers many ungodly prophane Formalists and hypocrites did and daily do creep in yet there is a strict command given to put such out of the Church and turn aside from them If such are to be withdrawn from then if any Church which is admonished concerning them shall still maintain abett and countenance them that Church is defiled and unfit to be communicated with 1 Cor. 5. 7. Eccles 9. 18. Heb. 12. 15. R. B. 1. It is only gross sinners after just Admonition upon proof that are to be put out The Officers ought not to do it without proof 2. Have you or others rightly Admonished every Parish Minister that you call us to separate from and convicted them upon proof when you have heard them speak for themselves 3. And who gave you authority so to examine other Pastors being but a single person 4. We easily grant and earnestly desire that true Church-Justice should make a difference But in case the Officers do not their duty it is none of the peoples duty to separate therefore haveing done their own part except in these cases 1. That the Error or Crime be so great as to be inconsistent with Christianity or Church communion 2. That the Church do not only neglect it but deliberately Own that Error or Crime in its aggravated state as it is so inconsistent with Christianity or Communion Not only being consequentially guilty of it as the best man may be of the most heinous sin of another by some omission of his duty to cure it but making it their profession or Practice 3. That this be done not by some particular members only but by an essential part of the Church that is either by the Pastor or by the main body of the people 4. That this be fully proved or so notorious as to need no proof 5. That they be impenitent herein after due admonition When these five things concur it is a duty to separate from a Church as unfit for Christian Communion And in lower cases it is a duty to prefer a Better when we can have it But it s much higher or lower rather that you go You say A Church which after admonition and discovery of offenders will not use her authority to cast them out This may be by mis-information on the sinners side or by meer negligence as in Eli's case and may be a great sin and yet not the same in kind as that which should be censured nor such as will unchurch that Church nor make its communion unlawful to the innocent As to your proofs the Texts you cite are all written to the whole Churches as Churches who are bid put them away c. save that to Timothy and Rev. 2. which is to the Church-Rulers And it followeth not that if a Church or Church-Rulers who have the power of the Keyes are bid to reject or cast out or not suffer an Heretick or wicked person and to have no fellowship with them therefore every member is forbidden to have Communion with that Church in Gods Worship unless they cast such a one out I did by many Scripture instances Rev. 2. 3. 1 Cor. 11. 15 c. prove the contrary to which you give no answer 5. Let all sober Readers note how few in the world we shall have communion with on your terms How certainly you will turn all Churches into strife and bitter envyings confusion and every evil work For Railers and Covetous among the rest are those that must be avoided And if any member of the Church shall think that one Railer or one Covetous person is kept in unjustly away they must go and condemn the Church as unworthy of Communion And who will not think that read your Book that you would be one of the first accused of Railing Yea how few even of the strictest separating Churches are they that neglect not Discipline upon some one person It may be it may be a rich or powerful man that will persecute or divide the Church if he be cast out Is there no Gathered Churches as they are called that have one Railing woman in or one Covetous person 6. But Sir our question is not only of the Communion of Members but also of strangers occasionally and rarely And what call hath a stranger to try the Discipline of another Church Or what opportunity hath he to know all their members crimes and to admonish them Why may not I in my travail communicate with a Church whose members and Discipline I know not At least all Parish Churches have not been thus admonished by you Sect. 51. E. B. p. 14. Lastly Which will fully answer the scruple It is to be considered that the Primitive Churches were setled by the Apostles and constituted according to the Divine pattern having all the Ordinances of Christ and true Officers rightly established among them so that though many scandalous sins did break out and were visible among some of the members yet a power was still retained in each Church for the keeping themselves pure by casting out offenders whereby they were kept to the institution and orders of Christ without any universal innovation or degenerating in those Essentials of Order as well as Doctrine which they fell into in the ages after and when Antichristianism which was then working did manifestly shew it self not only in rejecting truth 2 Thess 2. but in imposing error Rev. 13. 16 17. then was separation made necessary R. B. Reader this confused huddle of words it seems is the thing he trusteth to as a full answer to the scruple But 1. If such Churches are to be communicated with as yet retain all the Essentials of Office Order and Doctrine then those are to be communicated with that are now in question But the former seemeth here intimated by himself That our said Churches have all such essentials is thus proved Whereever there are true Pastors and a Christian flock related mutually as such receiving the holy Scriptures as such there are all things essential to a true Church for Office Order and Doctrine But it is so 〈◊〉 the Parish Churches in question To stay here to write a particular
proof of the validity of the Ministers Calling any further than to put the accuser if he can to prove that any essential part is wanting whether in Qualification Ordination or Consent would be vain it being done so largely by the old Non-conformists 2. But is there a Power retained in such Churches to cast out offendors Answ Yes A Power divine or given by Christ Remember that as I have proved Disp of Ordinat men are not the Makers of the Office of the Sacred Ministry nor the Measurers or Givers of the Power but only the Choosers of the person that shall receive what Christ by Institution giveth and the Ministerial Investers of the person in that power Therefore Whoever receiveth the Office of a Pastor receiveth the power of the Keyes to take in and cast out Though not arbitrarily nor ungoverned by himself But the Parish Ministers or very many of them now in question do receive the Office of Pastors Therefore they receive the power of the Keyes to take in and cast out If you say that the Bishops intend it not in ordaining them I answer 1. It sufficeth that Christ intendeth it who is the only maker and giver of the power The Book of Ordination maketh them solemnly Covenant to give faithful diligence alwayes so to Minister the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath â—â—â—manded c. And to teach nothing as required of necessity to eternal salvation but that which they are perswaded may be concluded and proved by the Scripture as containing all such necessary doctrine And to be ready with all faithful diligence to banish and drive away all erroneous and strange doctrines contrary to Gods word And to use both publick and private monitions and exhortations as well to the sick as the whole And to be diligent in prayers and reading the holy Scriptures and in such studies as help to the knowledge of the same laying aside the study of the world and the flesh And that they will be diligent to frame and fashion themselves and their families according to the doctrine of Christ and to make both themselves and them as much as they can wholesome examples to the flock c. And till lately the said Book recited Acts 20. 28. to the Presbyters at their Ordination And the Canon 26. saith No Minister shall in any wise admit to the receiving of the holy Communion any of his Cure or flock which be openly known to live in sin notorious without repentance Besides what the Rubrick saith to that purpose And now though I think this one of the greatest sores which you have touched yet judge whether even the Laws and Canons concede no Power to the Ministers 3. But if they did not the Power of Office is one thing and the Liberty of exercising it is another We have Power from Christ to preach and if we be silenced and our liberty restrained by men that proveth us not to be no true Ministers If you mean that no Church is to be communicated with where the Pastor is hindered by men from the full discharge of his Office you mistake and can never prove it 4. They that voluntarily neglect their Office without hinderance by the force of men are more to be blamed than those that are so forced But in the Primitive Churches Discipline was lamentably neglected voluntarily as appeareth in the Case of most of the seven Churches Rev. 2. 3. for which they are threatned by Christ and in the Corinthians case yea corrupted by such as Diotrophes And do you think that the Church that hath Power to do well and will not is therefore to be communicated with because it can that is because it sinneth not through disability but negligence or wilfulness 5. But the Core of your erroneous reasoning is behind you say they were without any Vniversal innovation or degenerating in those Essentials of Order as well as doctrine which they fell into in the ages after c. An Vniversal degenerating in the Essentials even of Doctrine and Order too is a big and a sad word And the time pointed at by you being so early if I can understand you you do as the Seekers unchurch the universal Church of Christ For if it Degenerated Vniversally in the Essentials of doctrine it Vniversally apostatized from Christianity For where any Essential part is lost the Essence and just Name is lost And I beseech you let not rashness or passion blind you to over-overlook the dreadfulness of this Doctrine 1. If Christ had then no Church as he had not if the Essential degeneration was Vniversal then he was no King of the Church on Earth no Lord no Teacher no Saviour of the Church no Intercessor for it in the Heavens And do you not then dethrone him and deny him indeed to be the Christ What a Head without a Body A King without a Kingdom 2. So you will make all Gods Promises of his Churches perpetuity as built on the Rock against which Hell Gates should not prevail and of being with them to the end of the world c. to be false and fail And if the whole Church failed and the Promises made to it what particular soul can trust Gods Promises 3. If all the Church apostatized how shall we know that Apostates did not corrupt all the Copies of Scripture that are come down to us 4. And then the Article I believe the holy Catholick Church would have been a falshood or error 5. And then there could be no Baptism no Sacrament of the Lords Supper c. 6. And then there must be New Apostles with Miracles to make a new Church And thus we have Mr. Williams doctrine whose Story I recited in my last Book Sect. 52. E. B. p. 15. This necessity of separation which began then continueth still since our Churches though reformed from Popery that is from Antichristianism in some points yet are not restored to the primitive pattern and purity R. B. 1. Whether by our Churches you mean only the Parish Churches of godly Ministers or also All the Protestant Churches and all other Vniversally through the world I am not sure But as far as I can conjecture by your words you mean All. Because you speak of them as in a Continuance in part in the Vniversal degeneration in Essentials And you speak of them as avoiding Popery but in part and call them our Churches and mention no Church in the world here that you own as a true Church and whether any where in all your writings I remember not I confess I pretend not to know the mind of so careless a Writer by any words but very plain ones But if this be your mind as it seemeth to be you would do well being so bold a man to tell the world your mind more plainly And you that think that no Truth is to be sold as you call it for Peace let Independents Presbyterians Separatists Anabaptists c.