was impossible who hath bestowed so great grace vpon vs. S. Siluester as Nycephorus hath recorded speaketh thus of baptisme e Lib. 7. hystor cap. 33. This water hauing receiued by the inuocation of the blessed Trinity heauenly vertue euen as it washeth the body without so doth it within cleanse the soule from filth and corruption and make it brighter then the Sunne-beames So that it is most conformable both vnto the holy Scriptures and the auncient Fathers to affirme and hold that the Sacraments doe really contayne and convay the graces of God into our soules as his true and proper instruments OF SAVING FAITH M. PERKINS Page 305. HEre followeth a Chapter which for the most part doth nothing but repeate points of doctrine which hath beene particularly handled in the questions of Iustification Satisfaction and Merits and aboue twenty times touched by the vvay in his booke therefore a tedious and loathsome thing it is to me here againe to heare of them yet because the man thinketh that in these points the principall glory of the newe Gospell consisteth and that there fore they are alwayes to be inculcated in season and out of seasorr I vvill briefly runne them once more ouer shewing as he doth only vvherein we differ without repeating the arguments which are to be seene in their proper places To come to the matter he putteth downe fiuâ— conclusions The first conclusion The Catholikes teach iâ— to be the property of faith to beleeue the whole word of God and especially the redemption of mankinde by Christ M. PERKINS DIFFERENCE THey beleeue indeede all the written word of God and more then all for they beleeue the bookes Apocryphall and vnwritten Traditions Answere Touching vnwritten Traditions see that Chapter in the first part M. PER. saith here Because they come to vs by the handes of men they cannot come within the compasse of our faith Then I say vpon the same ground the vvritten word cannot come within the compasse of our beleefe because it also commeth vnto vs by the handes of men And as the Apostles and their Schollers are to be credited when they deliuered the vvritten word vnto vs for Gods pure word so are they to be beleeued vvhen they taught the Church these poynts of Gods vvord vnwritten to be embraced as the true word of God although not written but committed to the harts of the faithfull And when we haue the testimony of auncient Councels or of many holy Fathers that these points of doctrine vvere by Tradition deliuered vnto the Church by the Apostles vve as firmely beleeue them as if they were written in the holy Scriptures For which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall vvhich not and what is the true meaning of hard places in Scripture we knowe no other way of infallible certainty then by the declaration of the Catholike Church which we therefore aswell beleeue telling vs these thinges were deliuered from the Apostles by Tradition as those thinges in vvriting And that such credit is to be giuen to the Catholike Church the Apostles Creede witnesseth which biddeth vs beleeue the Catholike Church Nowe touching those bookes of holy Scripture vvhich vvere some hundreth yeares after Christ doubted off by some of the auncient Fathers vvhether they were Canonicall or no thus we say That albeit it were vndetermined by the Church vntill S. Augustines time vvhether they were Canonical or no and so were by diuers auncient Fathers though not condemned as Apocryphall yet not comprehended vvithin the Canon of assured Scriptures notwithstanding that matter being in a Councell holden at Carthage where among many other learned Bishops S. Augustine vvas present throughly debated Concil Cartag 3. cap. 47. those bookes doubted off before were found by the holy Ghost and them to be true Canonicall Scripture and afterward vvere by the sixt generall Councell that confirmed this Councell holden at Carthage declared and deliuered to the whole Church for Canonicall Nowe as we receiued at the first the other bookes of Canonicall Scripture on the â—â—edit of the Catholike Church euen so ought vve to doe these shee hauing declared them to be such yea the Protestants themselues haue admitted many bookes of the newe Testament vvhich vvere doubted off for three hundred yeares after Christ why then doe they not as vvell receiue them of the old The difference betwixt vs is that they only of passion and priuate fancy admit these and reject those vvhereas vve of obedience relying vpon the judgement of the vvhole Church admit those bookes for Canonicall which the Catholike Church hath declared for such And thus much of the first conclusion Nowe to the second touching saluation by Christ alone wherein the Protestants either cannot vnderstand or will not report our doctrine aright We confesse that Christ IESVS hath merited the redemption and saluation of all mankinde yet say we further that not one man is saued through Christ vnlesse he for his owne part first beleeue in Christ if he be of yeares and be content to doe all those thinges that Christ hath commanded vs to doe so that to saluation two thinges are required the first and principall is Christes mediation the second is the applying of Christes mediation and merits vnto vs vvithout this latter the former will stand no man in steede Nowe to be made partaker of Christs merits we must not only beleeue in him as the Protestants teach but also keepe his commandements and by good workes deserue heauen otherwise according to Christs decree we shall neuer come thither as in the question of Merits hath beene plentifully proued out of the holy scriptures so we teach then that besides Christs sufferings and merits we must haue some of our owne or else vve shall neuer be partakers of Christes And M. PERKINS cannot be excused from a vvilfull corruption of Gods word when he affirmeth S. Paul to say We are not saued by such workes as God hath ordayned men regenerated to walke in for those be not the wordes of the text but his peeuish construction S. Paul putting a playne distinction betweene workes that we are not saued by and workes that we must walke in calling these later good workes and the other barely workes To the other text I say that we haue no righteousnesse of our owne strength or by the vertue of Moyses lawe but through the mercy of God and Christs merits we haue true righteousnesse giuen vs by baptisme Christ indeede by himselfe and his owne sufferinges not by sacrifice of Goates or Calues hath meritoriously washed away our sinnes that is deserued of God that they should be washed away but formally he hath washed away our sinnes by infusion of Christian righteousnesse into our soules He that will see more of this let him reade the question of Iustification And where as M. PER. saith that all grace of God powred into our hartes is by the corruption of our hartes defiled he little knoweth the vertue of Gods grace vvhich so cleanseth and purifieth
he was when it pleased him visible to his Apostles and at other times inuisible and yet was not his man-hood thereby abolished as M. PER. would make vs beleeue no more is it when his body is in many places at once or in one place circumscribed and in the other vncircumscribed For these externall relations of bodies vnto their places doe no whit at all destroy their inward and naturall substances as al Philosophie testifieth wherefore hence to gather that we denie both the Father and the Sonne to be God doth sauour I will not say of a silly wit but of a froward will peeuishly bent to cauill and calumniate Secondly Master PERKINS chargeth vs with disgrading Christ of his offices saying that for one Iesus Christ the onely King lawe-giuer and head of the Church they joyne vnto him the Pope not only as a Vicar but as a fellowe in that they giue vnto him power to make lawes binding in conscience to resolue and determine infallibly the sence of holy Scripture properly to pardon sinne to haue authority ouer the whole earth and a part of hell to depose Kinges to whome vnder Christ euery soule is subject to absolue subjects from the oath of alleageance c. Answere Here is a bed-role of many superfluous speeches for not one of all these thinges if we admitte them all to be true doth conuince vs to haue disgraded Christ of his offices which are these to appease Gods wrath towardes vs to pay the ransome for our sinnes to conquer the Diuell to open the Kingdome of heauen to be supreme head of both men and Angels and such like He may without any derogation vnto these his soueraigne prerogatiues giue vnto his seruants first power to make lawes that binde in conscience as he hath done to all Princes which the Protestantes themselues dare not denie then to determine vnfallibly of the true sence of holy Scripture which the Apostles could doe as all men confesse and yet doe not make them Christes fellowes but his humble seruants to whome also he gaue power properly to pardon sinnes Luc. 24. Ioan. 20. Mar. 16. Matt. 28. Whose sinnes you pardon on earth sbal be pardoned in heauen and finally to them he also gaue authority ouer the whole earth goe into the vniuersall world Ouer part of hell no Pope hath authority and when he doth good to any soule in Purgatory it is per modum suffragij as a suppliant and entreater not as a commander Whether he hath any authority ouer Princes their subjects in temporall affaires it is questioned by some yet no man not wilfully blinde can doubt but that Christ might haue giuen him that authority without disgrading himselfe of it as he hath imparted to him and to others also faculties of greater authority and vertue reseruing neuerthelesse the same vnto himselfe in a much more excellent manner As a King by substituting a viceroy or some such like deputie to whome he giues most large commission doth not thereby disgrade himselfe of his Kingly authority as all the world knowes no more did our Sauiour Christ Iesus bereaue himselfe of his power or dignity when he bestowed some part thereof vpon his substitutes He goes on multiplying a number of idle wordes to small purpose as that we for one Christ the only reall Priest of the newe Testament joyne many secondary Priestes vnto him which offer Christ daylie in the Masse We indeede hold the Apostles to haue beene made by Christ not imputatiue or phantasticall but reall and true Priestes And by Christ his owne order and commandement to haue offered his body and bloud daylie in the sacrifice of the Masse what of that see that question Furthermore he saith for one Iesus the all sufficient mediatour of intercession they haue added many fellowes to him to make request for vs namely as many Saintes as be in the Popes Kalendar yea and many more too For we hold that any of the faithfull yet liuing may be also requested to pray for vs neither shall he in hast be able to proue that Christ only maketh intercession for vs though he be the only mediatour that hath redeemed vs. Lastly saith M. PERKINS for the only merittes of Christ in whome alone the Father is well pleased what was he not well pleased with his Apostles they haue deuised a treasury of the Churches contayning besides the merittes of Christ the ouerplus of the merittes of Saints to be dispensed to men at the discretion of the Pope and thus we see that Christ and his merittes be abolished Answere The good man is somewhat mistaken for we hold not any ouerplus of merits in Saints the which we acknowledge to be by God fully rewarded in heauen but we affirme that some Saints and blessed Martirs haue suffered more paynes in this life then the temporall punishment of their owne sinnes â—eserued Iob 6. v. â— Who therefore might truely say with that just man Iob would to God my sinnes whereby I haue deserued wrath were weighed with the calamitie that I suffer euen as the sandes of the Sea this should be the heauyer Nowe parte of these sufferinges of Gods Saints as being needelesse for their owne satisfaction are reserued in the Churches store-house and may by the high steward of the Church to whome the dispensation of her treasure belongeth he communicated to others as very reason teacheth vs for who is fitter to dispose of any mans goodes then he to whome the charge thereof is giuen by his testament And thus I hope euery reasonable man doth finde vs Catholikes to be farre of from transforming Christ into an Idoll of mans conceite as Master PERKINS dreameth only we see a misconceited man labouring in vaine to deface Christes benefites toward vs to calumniate his chiefe seruantes and to skirmish more against his owne phantasies then against any doctrine of ours He layeth lastly a third kinde of Atheisme against vs for worshipping of God not with such respect as is sutable to his nature For saith he our worshippe is meere will worshippe for the most part without any allowance or commandement of God as Durand in his Rationale in effect acknowledgeth it is a carnall seruice standing of innumerable bodylie rites and ceremonies borrowed partly from the Iewes and partly from the Heathens it is deuided betweene God and some of his creatures in that they are worshipped both with one kinde of worshippe let them paint it as they can c. Answere Ipse dixit Pythagoras hath pronounced his sentence yet you neede not beleeue him vnlesse you list because he fableth so formally doth Durand acknowledge that all our worship is meere will worship and that it hath no allowance of God O egregious and impudent deceiuer For that learned deuout Author Durand doth nothing else in all that booke then set out the Majesty and declared the meaning of the true worship of God vsed daylie in our seruice throughout the whole yeare And therefore doth entitle
right meaning of all obscure sentences as they most childishly beare their followers in hand Briefly to conclude this point a great number of them hauing Gods word corrupted for the lanterne to their feete and their owne dimme sight for their best guide no maruaile though they stumble at many difficulties in these high misteries and fall into very absurd opinions concerning the principall partes of them Nowe to make vp an euen reckoning with M. PER. Atheisme I must come vnto their diuine seruice and worship of God the third point that I promised to handle because he spared not to speake his pleasure of ours First then whereas a true reall and externall sacrifice is among all externall workes the most excellent seruice that can be done to the diuine Majestie as shall be proued in the question of the sacrifice which also hath euer since the beginning of the world beene by the best men practised to acknowledge and testifie aswell the soueraigne dominion that God hath ouer vs as our dutifull subjection vnto his almighty goodnesse the Protestantes to make knowne vnto the wiser sorte that they are not Gods true loyall people will not vouchsafe to performe to him any such speciall seruice as to sacrifice in his honour nay they are fallen so farre out with this principall part of Gods true worship that they doe in despite of it powre out most vile reproches against the daylie sacrifice of the Catholike Church which contayneth the blessed body and most pretious bloud of our redeemer IESVS Christ. Secondly of seauen Sacraments instituted by our Sauiour both to exhibite honour to God and to sanctifie our soules they doe flatly reject fiue of them And doe further as much as in them lieth extinguish the vertue and efficacy of the other two For they hold Baptisme not to be the true instrumentall cause of remission of our sinnes and of the infusion of grace into our soules but only to be the signe and seale thereof And in steade of Christes sacred body really giuen to all Catholikes in the Sacrament of the Altar to their exceeding comfort and dignity the Protestantes must be content to take vp with a bitte of bread and with a suppe of wine a most pittifull exchange for so heauenly a banquet They doe daylie feele and I would to God they had grace to vnderstand what a want they haue of the Sacrament of Confession which is the most soueraigne salue of the world to cure all the deadly and dangerous woundes of the soule Ah howe caresty doe they daylie heape sinne vpon sinne and suffer them to lie festring in their breastes euen till death for lacke of launcing them in season by true and due confession Besides at the point of death when the Diuell is most busie to assault vs labouring then to make vs his owne for euer there is amongst them no anointing of the sicke with holy oile in the name of our Lord as S. Iames prescribeth joyned with the Priestes prayer Cap. 5. vers 14. which should saue the sicke and by meanes whereof his sinnes should be forgiuen and he lifted vp by our Lord and inwardly both greatly comforted and strengthned these heauenly helpes I say and many others which our Catholike religion afford vnto all persons by which rightly administred God is highly magnified are quite banished out of the Protestant territories and consequently their religion for want of them is mightily maymed They haue yet remayning some poore short prayers to be said twise a weeke for fearing belike to make their Ministers surfette of ouer much praying they will not tie them to any daylie prayers Mattins Euensong and other set houres they leaue to the Priestes sauing that on the Sabbaoth they solemnely meete together at the Church to say their seruice which is a certayne mingle-mangle translated out of the old portaise and Masse booke patched vp together with some fewe of their owne inuentions And though it be but short yet it is the Lord he knowes performed by most of them so slightly that an indifferent beholder would rather judge them to come thither to gase one vpon another or to common of worldly businesse then reuerently there to serue God Nowe as concerning the place where their diuine seruice is said if goodly stately Churches had not beene by men of our religion built to their handes in what simple cotes trowe you would their key-cold deuotion haue beene content to serue their Lord if one Church or great steeple by any mishap fall into vtter ruine a collection throughout all England for many yeares together will not serue to build it vp againe which maketh men of judgement to perceiue that their religion is exceeding cold in the setting foreward of good workes and that it rather tendeth to destruction then to edification Againe whereas our Churches are furnished with many goodly Altars trimmed vp decently and garnished with sundry faire and religious pictures to strike into the beholders a reuerent respect of that place and to drawe them to heauenly meditations theirs haue ordinarely bare walles hanged with cob-webs except some of the better sort which are daubed like Ale-houses with some broken sentences of Scripture Besides the ancient custome of Christians being to pray with their faces towardes the Sunne rising to shewe the hope they haue of a good resurrection and that by tradition receiued euen from the Apostles as witnesseth Saint Basil their Ministers in their highest misteries De Spiritu sancto 27. looke ouer their communion table into the South to signifie perhaps that their spirituall estate is now at the highest and that in their religion there is no hope of rising towardes heauen but assurance of declining I may not here omitte that of late yeares they haue caused the Kinges armes to be set vp in the place where Christes armes the Crucifix was wont to stand the which I confesse would haue graced their Church better if it had beene else where placed But I hope they will giue me leaue to aske them howe they durst set vp any such Images in their Churches as be in that armes For they haue taught hitherto that it is expresly against the second commandement and a kind of Idolatry not only to worshippe Images but also to set them vp in Churches and yet nowe as it were cleane forgetting themselues they fall into that fault themselues that they haue so much blamed in others Neither will it helpe them to say that they reproued only the setting vp of holy pictures but not of others For the second commandement as they expound it is aswell against the one as the other forbidding generally the making of any kind of Image And is it not a pittifull blindnesse to thinke that the pictures of Lions and Liberts doe better become the house of God then the Image of his owne Sonne and of his faithfull seruants And may not simple people thinke when they see Christes armes cast downe and the Princes set vp in
vers 12. considering his owne frailty Marry very good hope and confidence ought we all to haue in respect of Gods infinite mercy and goodnesse and in the inestimable merits of our Lord and Sauiour IESVS Christ but by faith we cannot beleeue it vnlesse God doe extraordinarylie reueale any such thing vnto vs which he doth to very fewe of his best beloued and best tryed seruants In the matter of our difference he saith first That we teach not faith to be a knowledge of thinges beleeued but a reuerent assent vnto them whether they be knowne or vnknowne But this he saith very vntruly for we hold faith in his owne nature to comprehend a certayne kinde of knowledge though not so cleare and euident yet of as great assurance as is the knowledge of naturall thinges but the man harpeth vpon something else if he could hitte on it We say indeede that it is not of necessity for the simpler sort and ignorant people to reade the holy Scriptures and to goe fish their faith out of that profound Ocean but may content themselues with their Pastors instructions and with their Catechismes and other bookes of piety and deuotion albeit we wish them of better vnderstanding if they be not too curious and wilfull to reade the holy Scriptures vvith reuerence seeking humbly to better their knowledge and especially to amend their liues and in places of difficulty not to trust vnto their owne wits but to referre themselues to the exposition of the Catholike Church which is the pillar and fortresse of truth and there vpon vvholy to rely Yet vve require much more knowledge in the simpler sort of people then the Protestants doe for we teach that euery one is to knowe expresly the 12. articles of the Apostles Creede the tenne Commandements and those Sacraments which they themselues are to receiue Further also all such lawes and ordinances of either the spirituall or temporall Gouernour which doe appertayne vnto their owne estate that they may knowe howe both in spirituall and temporall matters to carry themselues vvithout offence Let those our Authors which teach cases of conscience be consulted in those points and you shall finde them to charge euery man in conscience to knowe all these thinges whatsoeuer some men haue thought to the contrary who be not in that allowed but disproued euen by the testimony of that Authour Banes vvhome M. PERKINS quoteth And touching praying in Latin the lawes of the Catholike Church doth not bind any man to pray in Latin who is not first bound to learne the Latin tongue that is men in holy orders are bound to their Latin Breuiary but no man ignorant of the Latin tongue must be admitted vnto holy orders for them that are ignorant of the Latin tongue vve haue diuers bookes of English prayers vvherein they may exercise themselues fruitfully If any deuout women or others who vnderstand not Latin desire to reade some selected and approued Latin prayers we doe not forbidde them because those prayers haue many priuiledges aboue others And vve doubt not but that many of them doe reade the same Latin prayers with much more humility attention and eleuation of their mindes vnto God and all goodnesse then thousandes of Protestants or Puritans who reade and pronounce gallantly many glorious English prayers composed very curiously when their harts be farre from God Lastly he dissenteth from vs for that we say That some articles of faith were at the first beleeued generally by an infolded faith which afterward being by generall Councels vnfolded and declared to be articles of faith were beleeued expreslie This implicity of faith touching articles of religion M. PER. rejecteth saying That all matters of faith are contained plainelie in the Scriptures This he saith without probation and it is by me in the question of Traditions refuted already therefore to that place I referre the reader OF PVRGATORY OVR CONSENT M. PERKINS Page 278. WE hold a Christian Purgatory by which we vnderstand first the afflictions of Gods children here on earth secondly the bloud of Christ is a Purgatory for our sinnes and so Augustine calleth the mercy of God our Purgatory To this I say that the word Purgatory may be taken diuersly and signifie many thinges which because they be not to the present purpose may be here well omitted THE DIFFERENCE WE differ in two thinges first concerning the place the Catholikes hold it to be vnder the ground into which mens soules after this life doe enter This we deny as hauing no warrant in the word which mentioneth only two places for men after this life Luc. 16. v. 25.26 Ioh. 3. Apoc. 22. heauen and hell Here M. PER. beginneth the disproofe of Purgatory with his ordinary hackney it is not mentioned in the Scriptures To which I answere first that it is as shall be proued hereafter but if it were not yet were it to be beleeued because it vvas receiued by Tradition euen from the Apostles time Besides this fault in M. PER. argument there is another more childish to wit because there is no mention made of Purgatory in three or foure places by him quoted he concludeth that it hath no warrant at all in any other place of Scriptures as who should say there is no Doctor of Phisicke in two or three Colledges of Cambridge therefore there is not one in all the Vniuersity besides Finally Luc. 16. vers 25. the very first place by him cited ouerthroweth flatly his owne position it being truly vnderstood according vnto the generall exposition of the most learned Doctors for Abraham then was not in heauen but in a third place called Lymbo Patrum because before Christ had paid their ransome by his death on the crosse the Fathers of the old Testament were holden captiue and so of Christ it is said That ascending on high he ledde captiuity captiue Ephes 4. vers 8. Hebr. 9. v. 8. 15. And S. Paul proueth by the entring of the high Priest only into the second part of the Tabernacle called Sancta Sanctorum that the way of the Holies was not then manifested but by the bloud of Christ to be laid open and they by the death of the testatour to receiue the eternall redemption But this is by the way to shew the wisdome of the man to bring one text in controuersie to established another But he goeth forward and saith stoutly that there can be no place for Purgatory for that it is saide That they who dyed in the Lord Apoc. 14. vers 13. are bidden to rest from their labours which cannot be saith he if they goe into Purgatory And to cut off all cauils it is further said their workes that is the reward of their workes followe them euen at the heeles I answere first that we haue here by the way heauen to be the reward of workes by M. PER. confession which in the question of merits he denied most absolutely Secondly that albeit they who die in our
former offences Neyther can a man that is dead alter his estate but must expect judgement according to his former deserts Now if he haue vpon the true foundation builded wood hay and stubble then he must passe through the fire marry by the helpe of good prayers almes and principally by the Sacrifice of the Masse he may haue his paines in that purging fire remitted or much eased as you haue heard before out of S. Augustine Hom. 41. in 1. ad Corinth And the same teacheth S. Chrysostome saying The dead are holpen not by their friendes weeping but by their prayers supplications and almes And this is all in effect which M. PERKINS disputeth against Purgatory Secondly saith he we differ from them touching the meanes of Purgatory They say that men are purged by suffering of paines in Purgatory whereby they satisfie for their veniall sinnes and for the temporall punishment of their mortall sinnes We teach the contrary holding that nothing can free vs from the least punishment of the smallest sinne but the sufferinges of Christ Indeede they say that our sufferinges in themselues considered doe not purge and satisfie but as they are made meritorious by the sufferings of Christ But to this I oppose one text of Scripture Hebr. 1. vers 3. Christ hath purged our sinnes by himselfe where the last clause cuts the throate of all humane satisfactions and merits and it giueth vs to vnderstand that whatsoeuer purgeth vs from our sinnes is not to be found in vs but in Christ alone To batter this his only fortresse his owne wordes in the beginning of the same Chapter are very sufficient for there he plainely teacheth That by afflictions which men suffer in this world they are clensed from their corruption as gold is from the drosse by fire If our owne suffering purge vs from sinne as he confesseth before howe then can it be true that that vvhich purgeth vs from our sinnes is not in vs but in Christ alone Againe it is but a diuers reading in the Greeke text that hath those wordes by himselfe for they are not in the Latin translation But admitting them for currant the sence is most easie and nothing against eyther Purgatory or humane satisfactions for the Apostle meaneth no other thing thereby then that he expresseth in the 9. Chapter following to wit That Christ not by the bloud of Calues or Goates but by his owne bloud purged vs from our sinnes and wrought our redemption in such sort as in the question of satisfaction hath beene declared at large Here I say briefly that Christ appeased his Fathers wrath towardes all such as shal be made pertakers of his merits defaced the sinne it selfe and paide the eternall punishment due vnto their sinnes but left a temporall paine to be endured of the offendour for euery such sinne pardoned eyther in this world or in the next both because reason requireth that he vvho falleth after that he was once freely pardoned as vve were all in baptisme should not the second time be so easilie admitted into Gods grace as that he should not himselfe feele some smart for his offence Againe we being members of Christs body meete it is that we suffer with him Rom. 8. Col. 1 24. if we will raigne with him as the Apostle teacheth vvho also was so bold as to say that he in his body accomplished those thinges that wanted to the passions of Christ. To this place M. PER. referreth prayer for the dead of which he propoundeth three conclusions two affirmatiue and one negatiue but proueth nothing The first conclusion We hold that Christian charity must extend it selfe to them that be dead to wit in honest buriall of them in preseruing their good names and in reliefe of their posterity The second conclusion Further we pray in generall for the faithfull departed that God would hasten their joyfull resurrection The third conclusion To pray for particular men departed and to pray for their deliuerance out of Purgatory we thinke it vnlawfull because we haue neither promise nor commandement so to doe and so endeth he the question of Purgatory not propounding one argument in fauour of our party His reason of the necessity of a promise and commandement to pray for any thing before we pray for it I haue in the question of praying to Saints confuted at large and therefore omit it here and will furnish this place vvith some arguments for the proofe of Purgatory And though M. PER. blushed not to say that it hath no warrant in the word of God yet he hath or might haue seene in Cardinall Bellarmine Tom. 1. controuer 6. cap. 3. 4. little lesse then 20. textes of holy Scripture vsed by the auncient Doctors to confirme the doctrine of Purgatory I will make choise of some fewe of them and because Purgatory and prayer for the dead be so closely lincked together that the one doth necessarily followe the other I will joyne them both togither And gentle Reader remember here that which hath beene before rehearsed out of S. Augustine that there be some who die in so perfect an estate that they are carryed presently to heauen as all Innocents and Martirs and such other holy personages who commit fewe offences and yet doe leade a very austere life Others there be too too many vvho both liue and die wickedly such are also straight after their death plunged into the flames of hell fire Nowe There is a third sort of men who liue reasonable honestly at least doe die very penitently these only goe to Purgatory there to doe satisfaction for their former offences before they can be admitted into the joyes of heauen nowe to our proofes First 2. Machabaeor 12. Iudas Machabeus that most valiant Captayne of the people of God with all his armie prayed vnto God to pardon the offence of them that were slaine * Vers 42. and afterward making a generall collection among them sent 12000. groates to Hierusalem that sacrifice might there be offered for the offence of the departed the holy Ghost in the text witnessing it To be a holy and holesome cogitation to pray for the dead that they may be loosed and deliuered from their sinnes This text is so euident for prayer for the dead that it can haue no other answere then that which Heretikes flie vnto in their most desperate plunges to vvit to denie the whole booke to be Canonicall Scripture Vpon which point because it belongeth to another place I wil not dwel yet vvill I note by the vvay that S. Augustine in expresse tearmes doth declare 18. Ciuit. cap. 36. that the Church of God in his time did take it for Canonicall Scripture although the Iewes did not so The Protestants I knowe vvell cauill at many thinges in those bookes so might they that were disposed to wrangle against the best Hystories in the Bible But one of milder temper may perhaps demand howe those bookes that were at the first
serm 66. in Cant. Euen so doe S. Bede and S. Bernard with diuers others expound those wordes of our blessed Sauiour The third text of the newe Testament shall be taken out of S. Paul to the Corinthians vvhere he by a similitude of building declareth that some men vpon the only sound foundation IESVS Christ 1. Cor. 3. doe build gold siluer and pretious stones that is very excellent and perfect workes others doe build vpon the same foundation wood hay and stubble that is imperfect and many vaine trifling workes He addeth that the day of our Lord which shall be reuealed in fire shal proue the workes of the afore-said builders and they who haue built gold siluer and pretious stones because their workes will abide the proofe of fire shall receiue their reward but because the other sort of builders workes cannot resist the fire but will burne they shall suffer detriment but shall be saued yet so as by fire Hence we gather that after the triall of Gods judgement some men who are found guilty of lighter faults shall be saued because they keept the foundation notwithstanding they shall suffer detriment and passe through the fire of Purgatory as a man that hath an halfe-timber house couered with thetch set on fire he being in the middest of it must passe through the flames of fire to escape and saue his life The Protestants say that it is the fire of tribulation in this life that doth try our workes and that through it only lighter faults are purged We reply first that tribulation of this life doth not commonly discerne and try good mens workes from the badde because very often good men are more afflicted in this world then the badde Againe it is said in the text that at the day of our Lord this tryall shall be made vvhich day of our Lord being expressed vvith the Greeke article as here it is ordinarily in Scripture signifieth the day of his judgement so that by the very circumstances of the text it is very plaine that the Apostle S. Paul deliuered the doctrine of Purgatory which yet is made more assured by the vniuersall consent of the holy Fathers who take this place to proue Purgatory See Origen homil 6. in Exodum S. Basil saith He threatneth not vtter ruine and destruction In cap. 9. Esay but signifieth a cleansing according vnto the Apostles sentence but he shall be saued yet so as by fire Theodorete This same fire we beleeue to be the fire of Purgatory In scholijs Gr. in 1. Cor. 3. In psal 36 in which the soules of the departed are tryed and purged as gold is in the furnace Oecumenius and Anselmus vpon the same place be of the same judgement S. Ambrose vpon those wordes Sinners haue drawne their swordes saith though our Lord will saue his yet so they shall be saued as by fire and albeit they shall not be consumed with fire yet they shall be burnt S. Hierome in 4. cap. Amos. S. Augustine in almost twenty places expoundeth this text after the same manner Heare this one taken out of his Commentary vpon the 37. Psalme O Lord reproue me not in thy indignation that I goe not to hell neither correct me in thy wrath but purge me in this life and make me such a one that shall haue no neede of that purging fire prepared for them who shall be saued yet so as by fire And why so but because here they doe build vpon the foundation wood hay and stubble if they did build gold siluer and pretious stones they should be safe from both fires not only from that euerlasting which is to punish the wicked euerlastingly but from that also which shall correct them who shall be saued by fire for it is said he shall be saued yet so as by fire And because he shall be saued that fire is contemned yea truly though they shall be saued yet that fire is more grieuous then whatsoeuer a man can suffer in this life These fewe testimonies of the most approued Doctors may suffice to assure vs that the Apostles speeches are to be taken of a purging fire prepared after this life for them that vpon their true faith in Christ doe build through the frailty of our nature many idle odde and vaine workes The last text of holy Scripture shall be this taken out of S. Iohn 1. Epist 5. vers 16. He that knoweth his brother to sinne a sinne not vnto death let him aske and life shall be giuen him there is a sinne to death for that I say not that any man aske Hence I reason thus a sinne to death must in this place needs be taken for sinne wherein a man dyeth for which no man can pray because that he vvho dyeth in deadly sinne shall neuer afterward be pardoned wherefore a sinne not vnto death is a sinne of vvhich a man repenteth him before his death and for such a one doth S. Iohn exhort vs to pray therefore the prayer which he speaketh of when he biddeth vs not pray being prayer for the dead the other prayer also must be prayer for the departed and so doth he will vs to pray for such men departed that dyed not in deadly sinne but with repentance The Caluinists say That S. Iohn speaketh rather of Apostataes and some such like haynous offendors for whome yet aliue he would not haue vs to pray But this is very vvicked doctrine for vve may pray euen for Turkes and Iewes and the most sinnefull persons that liue whiles they liue and haue time to repent for vvhat knowe vve whether God vvill take them to mercy or no and S. Paul saith expresly that he would haue vs to pray for all persons 1. Tim. 2. vers 1. De correct gratia cap. 12. whiles they liue Much more conuenient therefore is that exposition before rehearsed which is taken out of S. Augustine who affirmeth That a sinne to death is to leaue faith working by charity euen till death To these arguments selected out of holy Scripture I will joyne another of no smaller moment with vs Catholikes which is drawne from Apostolicall tradition and the practise of the vniuersall Church in her primitiue purity which hath vsed alwayes to pray for the dead Let vs heare two or three substantiall vvitnesses speake in this matter S. Chrysostome that most renowmed Patriarke of Constantinople shall be the first vvho saith Hom. 69. ad populū That it was not without good cause ordayned and decreed by the Apostles that in the dreadfull mysteries there be made a commemoration of the dead For they did knowe that they should receiue thereby great profit and much commodity S. Augustine as famous for his learning and sincerity in the Latin Church as the other was in the Greeke De verbis Apostoli serm 34. saith to this point thus It is not to be doubted but that the dead are holpen by the prayers of holy Church and by the
in Adam c. I therefore ô my prayse my life and God of my hart laying aside for a season her good workes for which I rejoycing doe giue thee thankes doe nowe pray vnto thee for the sinnes of my Mother heare me I beseech thee through the salue of our woundes that hanged vpon the tree and nowe sitting at thy right hand doth plead for vs. I knowe that shee did many workes of mercy and from her hart forgaue all them that trespassed against her doe thou ô Lord also forgiue her her trespasses if shee committed any after baptisme Pardon her pardon her ô Lord I beseech thee and enter not into judgement with her let thy mercy surpasse thy judgements because thy wordes are true and thou hast promised mercy to the mercifull c. Could that most vvorthy Doctor more directly crosse Caluins false relation of his coldnesse in this matter or in better manner cleare himselfe from his spitefull slaunders Caluin blushed not to say that S. Augustine out of passion prayed for his mother but he himselfe relateth howe he did it some yeares after her death of setled judgement hauing his hart cured from humane affection And thus I end this question of Purgatory OF THE SVPREMACY IN CAVSES ECCLESIASTICAL OVR CONSENT M. PERKINS Page 283. TOuching the point of Supremacy Ecclesiasticall I will set downe howe neare we may come vnto the Roman Church in two conclusions The first conclusion For the founding of the primitiue Church the Ministery of the word was distinguished by degrees not only of order but also of power and Peter was called to the highest degree for Apostles were aboue Euangelists and Euangelists aboue Pastors and teachers nowe Peter was an Apostle and so aboue all Euangelists and Pastors howsoeuer he were not aboue other Apostles The second conclusion Among the 12. Apostes Peter had a three-fold priuiledge or prerogatiue first of authority I meane a preheminence in regard of estimation whereby he was in reuerence aboue the rest of the twelue Secondly of primacy because he was the first named as the fore-man of the quest Thirdly of principality in regard of measure of grace wherein he excelled the rest of the twelue but Paul excelled Peter euery way in learning zeale and vnderstanding as farre as Peter excelled the rest ANNOTATION MAster PERKINS as his manner is at the first vvould seeme to approch somewhat neare vnto the Catholike doctrine and therefore giueth as braue wordes for S. Peters prerogatiues as we doe to wit That he surpassed the other Apostles both in authority primacy and principality but pâ—â—â—ently after his old fashion he watereth his former wordes with such cold glosses that they shrinke in exceedingly for all Peters priuiledges doe extend no further then that he excelled the rest in priuate grace of learning zeale and vnderstanding and was therefore somewhat more esteemed then the rest and named first so that with M. PER. a great mill-post is quickly thwited as they say into a pudding pricke Againe all this is besides the purpose for the question is not vvhich of the Apostles excelled in those priuate gifts of vnderstanding zeale and piety for it is not vnlikely hat S. Iohn the Euangelist who sucked diuine mysteries out of our Sauiours breast was not inferior to either S. Peter or S. Paul in these spirituall graces of heauenly knowledge and charity but vve leauing these secretes vnto him vvho is the judge of the hart and of his inward gifts doe affirme S. Peter to haue beene aduanced aboue all the rest of the Apostles in the externall gouernement of Christes Church and the Bishops of Rome his successors to inherite the same supremacy THE DIFFERENCE by M. PERKINS THe Church of Rome giueth to Peter a supremacy vnder Christ aboue all persons and causes this standeth in a power to determine which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall and what is the true sence of any doubtfull place of them and for this purpose to call and assemble generall Councels and to confirme the decrees of them and by these meanes to decide all controuersiâ—â— about matter of faith Besides he can excommunicate any Christian be he King or Kaesar if they by obstinate withstanding Gods lawes or the decrees of holy Church shal justly deserue it Moreouer to him it doth belong to make Ecclesiasticall Canons and lawes for the due discipline and ordering of matters of the Church which doe binde in conscience Finally to confirme the election of Bishops and to decide all such greater controuersies as by appeale are brought vnto him from any part of Christendome These indeede be the chiefest points of the Popes supremacy as for that of pardoning of sinnes it is no proper part of his primacy but common vnto all not only to Bishops but also to Priests We saith M. PERKINS hold that neyther Peter nor any Bishop of Rome had or hath any such supremacy ouer the Catholike Church but that all supremacy vnder Christ is appertaining to Kinges and Princes with him in their Dominions And that our doctrine is good and theirs false I will make manifest by sundry reasons First Christ must be considered as he was a King two wayes first as he is God so is he King ouer al by right of creation and so as God hath deputies on earth to gouerne the world namely Kings and Princes Secondly he is King by right of redemption ouer the whole Church which he hath redeemed with his pretious bloud and so as mediatour and redeemer he hath no fellowe nor deputy for no creature is capable of this office to doe in the roome and stead of Christ that which himselfe doth because euery worke of the mediatour must arise from the effectes of two natures concurring in one action namely the God-head and Man-hood Againe Christes Priest-hood cannot passe from his person to any other whence it followeth that neyther his Kingly nor his Propheticall he vvould haue said Priestly office can passe from him to any creature Nay it is needlesse for Christ to haue a deputy considering that a deputy only serueth to supply the absence of the principall whereas Christ is alwayes present by his word and spirit it may be said that the Ministers in the worke of the ministery are Christes deputies I answere that they are no deputies but only actiue instruments because they doe only vtter the word but it is Christ that worketh in the hart In like manner in excommunication it is Christ that cutteth that excommunicate person from the Kingdome of heauen and the Church doth only declare this by cutting him off from the rest of Christes people vntill he repent so that in all Ecclesiasticall actions Christ hath no deputies but only instruments the whole action being personall in respect of Christ. Is not this trowe you a prety peece of an argument but we must beare with the length of it because it alone will serue as M. PER. opineth to ouerthrowe many points of Popery let it be therefore wel
commandements Besides S. Gregory did dispatch much businesse in and about Rome for the Emperour in his absence and so might vvrite that he had faithfully discharged the trust that the Emperour reposed in him yet in the very Epistle whence Caluin piketh some like wordes Lib. 4. epist 31. He doth admonish the Emperour that he ought to doe reuerence to Priests and putteth him in minde of Constantine the great who would not presume to judge of Bishops causes albeit the Bishops themselues requested and desired him so to doe And thus much in answere to that which is objected out of S. Gregory nowe if you desire to see vvhat this holy Bishops opinion vvas concerning the Supremacy of the Sea of Rome reade the 72. Epistle of his first booke vvhere he commandeth That if any out of Numidia the remotest part of Afrike desired to come vnto the Apostolike Sea of Rome that they should be permitted And in the 37. of his second booke doth signifie That all the foure Patriarkes might appeale vnto his court of Rome and could not afterward remoue the case from thence without great scandall and contumacy And in the 7. booke epist 63. doth in most expresse tearmes declare That without all doubt the Patriarke of Constantinople was subject vnto the Sea Apostolike And in the 64. addeth That all Bishops are subject vnto it saying For in that he saith himselfe to be subject to this Sea if any fault be found in Bishops I knowe not what Bishop is not subject to it And further l. 4. epist 52. It is euident vnto all that know the Gospel that by our Lordes voyce the chardge of the whole Church was committed vnto the most blessed and Prince of all the Apostles S. Peter And in his exposition of the fourth penitentiall Psalme affirmeth The Church of Rome to be head of all Churches And l. 14. Moral c 19. teacheth That Priests not Princes are the chiefe members of the Church And lib. 5. epist 25. speaking of the Emperour Maurice saith I knowe the most pious Princes to line discipline to keepe order to reuerence the Canons of the Church and not to intrude themselues into the businesse of Priests This may suffice to assure him that cannot reade S. Gregories vvorkes of his opinion in this matter and a hundreth times more may he finde that wil take the paines to peruse that his worke of Epistles called registrum By this may be answered that vvhich M. PER. citeth out of Pope Leo 4. that liued as he saith two hundreth yeares after Gregory That he professed obedience vnto his imperiall commandements to be but an vsuall Italian phrase And vvith what congruity he citeth one of them to professe obedience of curtefie to the Emperour whome they account to haue beene no better then Antichrist in his full pride and to haue acknowledged no other man for his head yea to haue extolled himselfe aboue God as they blaspheme I leaue it to the consideration of the wise Hitherto in answere of M. PERKINS objection against the Popes supremacy It followed in due order that hauing disputed against that he should haue confirmed his owne opinion for the supremacy of Kings Princes for it doth not followe necessarily that if the Pope be not head of the Church that then the King is for Patriarkes or Primates may be in the seuerall Prouinces or else the graue learned Senate of consistoriall Ministers and rude artificers called forsooth Elders of the congregation But M. PER. towardes the end of his booke waxeth slouthfull and hath omitted also to propose any arguments in our behalf yea he doth not propose one reason in proofe of his owne position Nay vvhich is most reproueable he doth in his owne arguments made against the Popes supremacy vtterly subuert the Kinges supremacy as you haue heard already in his first and fourth reasons To vvhich I will adde a third gathered out of him in an hundred places Nothing is to be beleeued as necessary to saluation that is not written in the word of God but it is not written any where in the new Testament that our Sauiour Christ committed the gouernement of his Church vnto Kings or temporal Princes therefore no such thing is to be beleeued or taught by any Christian There is so little said in fauour of their Supremacies in holy Scripture that M. PER. held it good policy not to goe about the probation of it Some are so simple as to alleage that of the Apostle S. Paul in proofe of it Rom. 13. Let euery soule he subject to higher powers but it falleth many feadomes to short of it for that sentence may be as wel applied to spirituall as to temporall gouernours Againe if he speake of temporall Magistrates most assured it is that he meant nothing lesse then to counsaile the Christians Romans to obey their Emperors who were then Pagans and persecutors in matter of religion The same answere will serue for their other text out of S. Peter 1. Pet. c. 2. vers 14. vvho biddeth Christians obey the King as the more excellent More excellent then whome vvhat then Priests and Bishops nothing lesse but more excellent then their Dukes Captaines and such like officers vnder them as it followeth in the text of which sort very fewe in S. Peters dayes were members of the Church and much lesse supreme heades in cases Ecclesiasticall so that there is no vvarrant in all the newe Testament for Kinges supremacy in matters of religion and as little is there in the old as shall be examined in due place vvherefore not to be beleeued of any Protestant And in very equity and true naturall light how is it likely that temporall Princes both slenderly studyed in matter of Diuinity and nothing practised in the manner of Ecclesiastical gouernement should be chosen as fittest persons to decide all doubtes in Diuinity and to order and determine all controuersie in Church gouernement or shall we thinke that our Sauiour had such a simple fore-sight or slender care of his Church as to commit it specially to their chardge vvho vvere both least able and most vnlikely to looke well vnto it Women also and children may be lawfull Kinges but to make them supreme Gouernours of causes Ecclesiasticall vvherein children cannot and vvomen may not speake is most ridiculous And if all other proofes fayled the very experience of our age were sufficient to perswade any reasonable man that it is most absurd to be ruled by temporall Princes in matters of religion for it would followe of it necessarily that a Christian were bound to conforme his conscience to the Kinges lawes and to embrace that religion which the King commandeth him because he is bound to obey his superior appointed by God And consequently my father for example who liued in King Henryes the eight King Edwardes Queene Maryes and Queene Elizabeths daies should haue changed his religion foure times in his life and that vvith a very good conscience because he
for the amendment of their liues or else they should be the most foolish judges that euer vvere appointed vpon earth Wherefore seing that the Apostles had authority to forgiue sinnes and vvere in discretion to admmister the same vnto penitent sinners it must needes followe necessarily that the penitent should confesse all his sinnes in particular vnto them and that authority was to continue in the Church for euer it being giuen to the Apostles for the due gouerning of the Church and to the comfort of al sinners which should neuer fayle to be vntill Christes last comming to judgement They to defeate all this discourse answere That Christ gaue not his Apostles authority to pardon any mans sinnes but only to declare that their sinnes were pardoned if with true repentance and faith they receiued the preaching of the Gospell This interpretation first is repugnant to the text vvhich in expresse tearmes hath Whose sinnes yee shall remit or pardon not vvhose sinnes yee shall declare to be remitted Secondly it hath that Whose sinnes yee shall forgiue they are forgiuen to wit euen then when they remit them and not that they were remitted before as he should haue said if he had giuen them authority only to declare them to be remitted Thirdly the metaphor of keyes giuen vnto them doth demonstrate that power was giuen them to absolue and not to declare only they were absolued because keyes are giuen to open or shut dores and not to signifie that eyther the dores are already open or shall be vpon condition Lastly the Ministers pronouncing of men absolued should be very rash and friuolous if they doe not truly absolue them For if he pronounce them absolutely to be absolued without good assurance of their faith repentance he should but lie and if he doe pronounce them absolued conditionally if they beleeue aright and be truly penitent then vvere his absolution in vaine for it depending vpon their faith and repentance and not vpon the Ministers pronouncing it bringeth no further assurance then they had before yea they themselues being of the faithfull could not be ignorant of so much before to wit that he was free from sinne and needed not his absolution Nowe that the Apostles then and Bishops and Priests their successours euer sithence did truly absolue men from their sinnes and were not like to cryers only proclaymers thereof see first S. Chrysostome who saith That such power was giuen here to men Lib. 3. de Sacerdot which God would neuer giue to Angels who yet had power to pronounce saluation to penitent sinners Secondly That Priestes haue such power of binding and loosing ouer the soules as Kinges haue ouer their subjects bodyes vvhich is truly to binde or to loose them and not only to declare them bound or loosed Thirdly he saith expresly That the Priestes among the Iewes had power to purge the leprosie or rather to try whether they were purged from it or no but it is graunted vnto our Priestes not only to discerne whether the body be purged from leprosie or no but playnely to purge our soules from the filth of sinne S. Ambrose in diuers places proueth directly against the Nouatians that Christ gaue power to Priestes to remit sinnes Lib. 1. de Poenitent c. 2. 7. The Nouatians denyed not but that one might preach the Gospell vnto such sinners that vvere relapsed and promise them pardon too if they repented but would not haue the Priests to reconcile them vnto the Church by the Sacrament of Penance denying that Priestes had any such power ouer such sinners but that they must leaue them to God alone vvhich the holy Doctor confuteth by these places of Scripture Math. 16. vers 19. cap. 18. vers 18. Ioh. 20. vers 23. Whatsoeuer yee forgiue in earth shall be forgiuen in heauen Epist ad Heliodor S. Hierome saith God forbidde that I should speake any euill of them who succeeding in the Apostolike degree doe with their sacred mouth make the body of Christ and by whome we are made Christians who hauing the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen doe in a certayne manner judge before the day of judgement Lib. 20. de ciuit c. 9. S. Augustine doth define in these wordes Whatsoeuer yee shall binde vpon earth shal be bound in heauen that authority is giuen vnto the rulers of the Church to judge in spirituall causes and not only to declare Hom. 62. in Euang. S. Gregory vpon these vvordes Whose sinnes you forgiue c. Behold saith he the Apostles are not only made secure of themselues but haue power giuen them to release other mens handes and doe obtayne a prerogatiue of the heauenly judgement that in Gods steede they may forgiue to some their sinnes and binde some others and truly the Bishops nowe doe hold the same place in the Church they receiue authority to binde and to loose c. By this you may see in part vvith what fore-head M. PERKINS affirmed that for a thousand yeares after Christ there was no mention of the Sacrament of Penance and more you shall see shortly if that first I shall note out of the Scripture it selfe both the acknowledgement of receite of that power to reconcile and absolue and the practise and commandement of confession S. Paul acknowledgeth and declareth 2. Cor. 5. vers 18. 20. that God had giuen vnto them the ministery of reconciliation and addeth that they be Gods Legates and therefore exhorteth them to be reconciled but they that be sent Ambassadours vvith full commission to reconcile men vnto their Prince must knowe both howe grieuously they haue offended and what recompence they are willing to make vvhich must needes be by their owne confession Nowe for the practise of confession by the first Christians Act. 19. vers 18. 19. it is recorded That many of the faithfull came confessing and declaring their deedes and many that had followed curious actes brought their bookes and burned them in the presence of al the rest Note here both particular confession made vnto S. Paul of the seuerall deedes and factes and not in generall that they vvere sinners as the very vvordes doe witnesse Confessing their deedes that is vvhat they had done in particular And againe howe should he haue knowne their study of curious bookes if they had not told their sinnes in particular some Protestants conuinced by the text say That they confessed some of their sinnes in particular but not all But I meruaile how they came by the knowledge of that for vvhy should they confesse some more then others and the vse of Scriptures is by the naming of sinnes indefinitely to signifie all as when we pray Forgiue vs our sinnes we meane all our sinnes and when it is said of Christ He shall saue his people from their sinnes it is meant that he shall saue them not from some of their sinnes but from al. Lastly touching the commandement S. Iames doth charge vs a Iac.
doe not wholy and inuiolably hold all the points of faith that she professeth but renounceth them and declareth them to be accursed wherefore no Protestant can be in the Church of Rome But they say That their Church lay hidde in the Roman as corne in chaffe Did it in deede lie in such obscurity that none of them were to be seene or heard off therefore it was no Church at all for the most proper markes of the Church according to their owne principles are The true preaching of Gods word and the sincere administration of the Sacraments Nowe preachers of the vvord must be both seene and heard also and they walked not inuisible I hope vvho ministred and receiued their Sacraments wherefore they must either graunt that their Church in that generall Apostacy was visible or that it was no Church at all as not hauing the inseparable markes of their Church which are The true preaching of the word and due administration of the Sacraments Againe if they had beene liuely members of the true Church how could they liue vnknowne in that great Apostacy were they not bound in conscience to haue made profession of their faith publikely Rom. 10. vers 10. Math. 10. vers 33. S. Paul saith yea With the hart we beleeue vnto justice but with the mouth confession is made to saluation And our Sauiour saith He that shall deny me before men I also will deny him before my father which is in heauen If they were such crauens as made more account of their owne ease and safety then of the truth of their religion and glory of God they were rather cockle ouer-sowed by the enemy among the good-seede Math. 13. vers 25. then like vnto corne hidden in chaffe In vaine for them also vvas that voyce sent from heauen and recorded by S. Iohn which M. PER. taketh for his text Goe out of her my people for these dastardly faint-harted fellowes would giue no eare to it but loued better to hide their heades in some musty corner then vvith danger of their liues to separate themselues from those abhominations If then there vvere any such false harted dumbe and deafe reprobates hidden among others let the Protestants take them if they please for their worthy ancestors But no reason in the world to cal them the true Church of God that had neither true loue of Gods honour nor of their neighbours good and conuersion otherwise they would not haue holden their peace seing Gods holy name so miserably prophaned as they thought Thus much of M. PER. position nowe to his proofe If any man aske them where their Church was before Luthers dayes he answereth out of this text Goe out of her my people that it was euer since the Apostles dayes Let vs drawe this to some forme of argument that it may appeare how it hangeth togither A voice from heauen cryed in S. Iohns dayes to the Church of Rome Goe out of Babilon that is depart from the congregation of the wicked Heathens and Pagans therefore the Protestants religion hath beene euer since the Apostles dayes Apply Iohn Barber and thou shalt haue a newe paire of sizors for thy labour Should not a man leese his labour to confute particularly such a sencelesse discourse But yet a word to his next annotation vpon the text Demanding whether the Church of Rome he a Church or no he answereth That if it be so taken as in truth it is it is no Church at all His proofes are That it is Babilon that it peruerteth the true sence of the Scripture and ouerturneth the inward baptisme all which I haue heretofore confuted Here I will but demand whether this assertion of his doth not vndermine and blowe vp his former for if their hidden Church were no where but in the Roman for nine hundred yeares together and that Roman were no Church at all then surely their Church was not at all which had no being and existence but in the other which vvas not at all I may not here omit to note by the vvay vnto the gentle reader out of S. Augustine In illa verba ps 85. TV SOLVS DeVS MAGNVS Pag. 338. Howe they robbe Christ of his glory and inheritance bought with his pretious bloud who hold that his Church failed and was fled into corners Yea S. Hierome further affirmeth That they make God subject to the Deuill and a poore miserable Christ who hold that his body the Church may perish or be so bidden that it cannot be heard off Wherefore omitting such impertinent stuffe let vs come vnto those horrible crimes that he chargeth the Church of Rome withall The first is no lesse then Atheisme to vvhich I haue fully answered in the preface of this booke wherefore I doe omit it here doe come to the second crime of Idolatry Which saith he is as grosse among vs as euer it was among the Heathens See the foule mouth of a preacher howe proueth he this Marry it is to be seene in two things first they worship the Saints with religious worship which is proper to God O most impudent doe we make Saints creators of heauen and earth omnipotent infinitely wise and good or giue them any kinde of honour due vnto God only see that question and detest the sonnes of the Deuill that blush not to auouch such monstrous lies But we make the blessed Virgin Mary a Mediator of redemption Fie vpon such an impudent face but we call her a Lady a Queene be it so For so did Athanasius in Euang. de sanctiss Deipar apply those wordes of the 44. Psalme The Queene standeth on thy right hand in a golden vestement c. So did Gregory Nazianzene in his Verses of her For thou saith he ô Queene by the diuine fauour camest to me So did holy Effrem in his Oration to her all which liued within foure hundreth yeares off Christ To omit S. Chrysostomes Lyturgy because they like it not But what of this shee is a redeemer O sencelesse that shee is called a Goddesse as they did call the Queene Elizabeth then liuing I reade not in any of the bookes quoted by him Missal Breuiar A mediatresse of intercession our hope our life and the like shee may be called in a good sence because we hope through the helpe of her most gratious prayers to obtayne the life of our soules and so may it be said to her Prepare thou glory for vs defend vs from our enemies and such like to wit by the meanes of her prayers Againe saith he their Idolatry is manifest in that they worship God in at or before Images Then are the Protestants also Idolaters because they vvorship God in or at the Churches at or before their communion table Whether we haue commandement or not for Images maketh nothing to Idolatry but whether we giue to Images the honour only due to God which we doe not Nowe to compare Images to adulterers is to dote and deserueth no
vulgar tongue or that all thinges necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is contained in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as de doth all necessarie pointes of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall pointes of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church 1. Tim. 3. vers 15. Ioh. 16. vers 13. which being the piller and ground of truth directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith Master PERKINS The eternal truth of God the creatour shal depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before anie declaration of the Church but vve poore creatures that are subject to mistaking and errour should not so certaynelie vnderstand and knowe that truth of God vnlesse he had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it selfe by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrowe his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holie Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we doe not that the written vvord contayneth all pointes of doctrine necessarie to saluation yet vvere it most necessarie to relie vpon the Catholike Churches declaration both to be assured which bookes of Scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon S. Augustine a man of farre better judgement then any of these daies said Con. Epist Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authority of the Church moued him thereunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the wordes of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sence of them doe but deceiue men and leade them into errour and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to drawe others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creedes and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creede did adde some fewe pointes vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particuler diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by some fewe and obscure men only questioned Wherefore to argue that no other pointes of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creedes is to cut of a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knewe not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writinges yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions nowe againe reuiued and holden by the Protestantes as in those seuerall questions I haue before proued Touching beleeuing in the Church which he thrusteth in by the way we vse not that phrase as the very Creede sheweth following therein S. Augustine with others who hold that to beleeue in a thing is to make it our creatour by giuing our whole hart vnto it in which sence we beleeue not in Saintes nor in the Church albeit some other ancient Doctors take the wordes to beleeue in not so precisely but say that me may beleeue in the Church in Saintes that is beleeue certainely that the Catholike Church is the only true company of Christians and that to the lawfull gouernours thereof it appertaineth to declare both which bookes be Canonicall and what is the true meaning of all doubtfull places in them so we beleeue the Saintes in heauen to heare our prayers to be carefull to pray for vs to be able to obtaine by intreaty much at Gods handes in whose high fauour they liue Thus much in answere vnto that which M. PER. objecteth in generall nowe to that he saith in particuler He chargeth vs first with the breach of the third article Conceiued by the holy Ghost Which saith he is ouerturned by the transubstantiation of bread and wine in the Masse into the body and bloud of Christ for here we are taught to confesse the true and perpetuall incarnation of Christ beginning in his conception and neuer ending afterward Answ Here is a strange exposition of the Creede Is Christes incarnation perpetuall and not yet ended then it is true to say that Christ is not yet incarnate as we may say truly that a man is not borne vntill his birth be accomplished and ended But to the present purpose because Christes incarnation beganne at his conception cannot bread be turned afterward into his body how hangeth this together Belike he meanes that Christes body was but once conceiued and that was by the holy Ghost in his mothers wombe therefore it cannot afterward be made of any other thing This to be his meaning he declares in the question of the Sacrament but it is too too simple and childish For we hold him not to be so conceiued by bread as he was by the holy Ghost who was the efficient cause of his conception but that the same body that was cōceiued by the holy Ghost is made really present in the Sacrament by transubstantiation of bread into it which hath no opposition at al with this article as I haue more largely proued in the foresaid question And whereas he saith further cleane besides the purpose of this article that Christes body hath the essentiall properties of a true body standing of flesh and bone we grant the same but when he addeth that local circumscription cannot be seuered from a body he is deceiued for the greatest body of all others which is the highest heauen is not circumscribed by any place because there is no other body without it whose extreamities might compasse in and circumscribe that body of the highest heauen And when he saith that to be circumscribed in place is an essentiall property of euery quantity and that quantity is the common essence of euery body he makes himselfe but a common mocking-stocke vnto euery simple Logitian who knoweth that no accident such as euery quantity is can be of the essence and nature of a substance such as Christes body is Neither would any man say that cared what he said that to be circumscribed in a place is essentiall to euery quantity when all numbers that be quantities
vs from all oppressions of the wicked one In euang de sanct Deipara c. Athanasius Patriarke of Alexandria and first of the foure principall Doctors of the Greeke Church after many prayses of the immaculate Virgin Mary saith Therefore all the rich men of the earth doe pray vnto thee to be enriched with thy goodes and spirituall contemplations We doe cry vnto thee remember vs most sacred Virgin c. Gregory Nazianzene the second of these famous Doctors doth thus pray vnto S. Athanasius who dyed in his time Orat. in sanct Athanas O Athanasius ô sacred and louing hart c. thou from aboue looke fauourably vpon vs and gouerne this holy people that adore the holy Trinity and cherish and feede vs in peace c. The like prayer he maketh to S. Cyprian and to S. Basil in his funerall orations made of them S. Basil speaking of fourty Martirs Orat. in quadrag Mart. of whome he made his sermon saith He that is troubled flyeth vnto these fourty and he that rejoyseth runneth vnto them they that they may be deliuered from their aduersity these that they may continue in prosperity here the Godly woman is found praying for her children c. S. Chrysostome the last but not the least of the foure highly commendeth the Emperour of Rome for praying vnto S. Peter and S. Paul saying He that is revested in purple Hom. 66. ad populuÌ„ Antioch Ibid. goeth to embrace their tombes and all state laid aside doth become an humble suppliant to the Saints that they would pray vnto God for him he that goeth crowned with a Diademe and imperiall crowne humbly prayeth vâ—to the fisher-man and to the maker of tents as to his patrones and protectors Let vs to make vp the halfe dozen joyne one other their equall vvith the former it shall be Gregory Nyssene S. Basils brother he speaking vnto the Martir Theodore saith Make intercession vnto the King of all for our Country Orat. in Theodor. we stand in dread of great persecution The wicked Scithians are at hand and about to wage battle against vs thou as a souldier fight for vs as a Martir speake boldly in our cause and much more to this purpose which I omit that I be not ouer tedious To those of the Greeke Church let vs joyne as many of the Doctors of the Latin Church beginning with S. Ambrose the first of the foure more famous Doctors he first teacheth Lib. de viduis That Angels and Martirs are to be besought vnto and earnestly prayed vnto by vs alleadging that they are our Presidents and the beholders of our life and actions and encourageth vs not to be ashamed to vse them as intercessors of our infirmity And in another place prayeth thus That this my prayer may be of greater force Serm. 91. de inuent corpor Geruas Prothas I request the aide of the blessed Virgin Mary of the Apostles Martirs and Confessors the prayers of such personages thou ô Lord doest neuer despise if it shall please thee to inspire them to pray for me S. Augustine also first teacheth vs to pray to Martirs saying a Tract 84 in Iohan. We doe not so remember Martirs at that table as we doe others that rest in peace for we doe not pray for them but rather pray to them that they will pray for vs. And else where he saith b Serm. 7. de verbis Apostoli That it is an injury to pray for a Martir vnto whose prayers we ought to recommend our selues Secondly he himselfe c De bapt coÌ„t Donat lib. 7. ca. 1. prayeth vnto S. Cyprian to helpe him with his good prayers Thirdly he hath recorded d Lib. 22. de ciuitat Dei cap. 8. the miraculous helpe which two seuerall persons obtained by praying vnto the Martir S. Stephen S. Hierome is so formall for vvorshipping of Relikes and praying to Saints in his treatise against Vigilantius that the Protestants are driuen to preferre that odious Heretike before him Yet because some of them denie him to speake there of praying to Saints note these wordes of his Thou Vigilantius sayest that whilest we liue we may pray one for another but after we be dead no mans prayer shall profit other c. see the objection of the Protestant Nowe heare that learned Doctors answere If saith he Apostles and Martirs whiles they liued here might pray for others when they ought to be carefull for themselues howe much more nowe after their crownes and triumphes Take also another place of his which is so cleare that it cannot admit any exception Epist ad EustochiuÌ„ in epitaph Paulae Farewell saith he to that blessed vvidowe Paula being then departed this life and with thy prayers helpe the old age of him that worshippeth thee thy faith and good workes haue joyned thee to Christ being present thou shalt more easily obtayne that which thou wilt aske The fourth of Latin Doctors is Gregory the great to whome vve English-men are so much bound for our conuersion to the Christian faith he perswadeth praying to Saints in this sort Homil. 31 super euaÌ„g â—fine If any of vs had a great cause to be heard tomorrowe before a high judge we would this day most diligently seeke out a wise well spoken and gratious counsailour that were likelyest to handle it in the best manner Behold saith he the seuere judge IESVS assisted with a terrible troupe of Angels and Archangels is to sit vpon vs before that majesticall assembly the cause of our saluation is to be discussed and yet we doe not nowe prouide vs Patrones that may on that day defend vs Martirs will then be good aduocates but they looke to be requested and as I may say doe seeke that they may besought vnto therefore seeke by praying vnto them to gette them to be your Patrones make them before hand intercessors of your guiltynesse because he that is to be our judge will be nowe intreated that then he may not punish vs. To these foure pillers of the Latin Church I will to make the number equall with the Greeke Fathers adde two others the first shall be out of Ruffinus vvho vvas of S. Hieromes standing of the most Christian Emperour Theodosius Ruffin li. 2. hyst ca. 33. He assisted with the Priestes and People visited the holy places and clad in bayre-cloath lay prostrate before the shrines of the Apostles and Martirs and by his faithfull intercession and praying to the Saints most humbly sued for succour The last shall be our famous country-man venerable Bede Let vs saith he with swift flight Lib. 4. in Cant. circa finem seeke vnto the holes of the wall that is let vs flie vnto the often intercession of Angels and Saints that they may pray for vs vnto our mercifull creatour for these are the most strong and surest fortresses of holy Church Nowe I vvould gladly knowe vvhether the testimony of these dozen of
the chiefest Bishops and Doctors aswell for their Godlynesse of life as for their knowledge in holy Scriptures who were also chosen by the holy Ghost to gouerne instruct and teach the principal Churches in both Europe Africke and Asia and that in or about the most flourishing state thereof for all of them sauing S. Gregory the great and venerable Bede liued within 400. and some within 200. yeares of Christ Whither I say these most sound testimonies of so many sacred and worthy personages be not sufficient to perswade any reasonableman that praying to the Saints in heauen is both agreable to Gods vvord which no man in these dayes vnderstandeth halfe so well as the worst of any of them did and also very profitable for vs. Yet for the further assurance of this important matter I wil adde one miracle which I touched before wrought in confirmation of it so that he that will not beleeue this shall be conuinced not to beleeue God himselfe witnessing of it In the coasts of Thelousae in France Ex lib. 3. vitae S. Bernardi cap. 5. about 400. yeares past one Henry an Apostata and wicked fellowe beganne to cry out against praying for the dead and praying to Saints and pilgrimages and some other points of the Catholike doctrine the fame of S. Bernards holynesse and learning being then very great he was sent for by the Popes Legate to come thither to stay the people from following that lewde companion who on a day after he had preached at a towne called Sarlate blessed some loaues of bread and said This shall be a certayne proofe that our doctrine is true and theirs false if those that be sicke by tasting of this holy bread be cured of their diseases There stood by among others the Bishop of Charters who fearing what might followe added if they taste of it with faith Nay said the holy Father Barnard nothing doubting of Gods power I say not so but he that shall taste of it shall be truly cured that they may knowe vs to be true men and the true messengers of God then a great multitude tasting of it were according to his word perfectly healed of what disease soeuer they had What can be more euident or better assured then that praying to Saints is the truth of God seing that it pleased God to confirme it in such sort by the miraculous curing of so many people M. PERKINS for an vpshot saith that he finally dissenteth from the Catholikes because they are not content to pray to Saints but say further that God through their merits in heauen doth bestowe many benefits vpon vs on earth I would he agreed with vs in the two former points we should quickly be at accord in this for the good-man is fouly mistaken if he thinke that vve affirme the Saints after they be come to heauen to merit a newe there for we hold that none after their death can merit any more but doe then receiue according vnto their former merits either saluation or damnation but we neuerthelesse say that God in respect of their former merits gotten in this life doth for their sakes bestowe many benefits vpon vs and this doth M. PER. himselfe confirme in plaine wordes In this question when he graunteth pressed thereto by the euidence of Gods word that men vpon earth haue helpe and benefit by the faith and piety which the Saints departed shewed when they were in this life for saith he further God shewed mercy on them that keepe his commandements to a thousand generations True it is that this their faith and piety he would not haue to be called merits but vve with that most honourable Father S. Ambrose doe say Apud Deum Lib. 5. super LucaÌ„ seruus interueniendi meritum jus habet impetrandi with God a seruant of his hath both the merit to be an intercessour and the right to obtayne his suite see more of merits in that question Here M. PER. addeth against himselfe That the Saints in heauen haue receiued the full reward of all their merits and therefore there is nothing further that they can merit Here we haue first that the Saints had merits which he was wont to deny flatly againe how doth God hauing fully rewarded their former faith and piety at their entrance into heauen afterward for their sakes shew mercy to thousands which he confesseth himselfe wherefore he is aswell bound to answere this as we are it bearing as strongly against his owne doctrine as it doth against ours To saue him a labour I answere in a word that it is one part of the reward of a faithful seruant to be alwayes after not deseruing the contrary in his Masters fauour and so gratious with him that he may intreate any reasonable matâ—â—r at his handes so are the Saints vvith God vvho can neuer be wearyed with their suites so long as they all doe but tend vnto his owne honour and the saluation of his poore creatures and as we both agreed vpon before Their faith piety and charity whiles they liued did and doth still moue and cause God to shewe mercy vnto thousands vpon earth for their sakes though their merits were before most abundantly rewarded let this suffice for this question OF IMPLICITE OR INFOLDED FAITH M. PERKINS Page 266. THis question is handled for two causes as he saith pag. 274. first to rectifie the conscience of the weaker sort of his disciples secondly to rectifie their Catechismes which doe as he censureth require too full an assurance of saluation in all men It being then for the instruction of his ovvne deceiued flocke and not much appertayning to vs I will post it ouer lightly He teacheth a twofold implicity of faith first that faithfull men may be ignorant at the beginning of many articles of faith and learne them afterwardes It was so in deede in Christes time because he taught them not all a once but since the establishment of the Gospell it is necessary that euery one beleeue all the articles of the Apostles Creede the true doctrine of the Sacraments and such other necessary heades of the Christian religion other points of faith may be learned in time according vnto the capacity of the persons The second fold of his faith is that many of his deceiued disciples haue not at their conuersion and in time of temptation a full assurance of their saluation which notwithstanding will serue the turne then if they desire to haue a full assurance and labour afterward to attayne vnto it which he speaketh to the comfort of their consciences that cannot perswade themselues so assuredly that their sinnes are pardoned them This presumptious doctrine of full assurance of saluation I haue in a seueral question before confuted therefore I say only here that no Christian is bound to haue any such absolute assurance of his owne saluation but that he must according to the Apostles rule worke his saluation with trembling and feare Ad Philip. 2.
before I come to the full period of this worke Curteous Reader BEARE WITH THE FAVLTS IN PRINTING WHICH CAN HARDLY BE FEW CONSIDERING THE MANIFOLD DIFFICVLTIES OF THE time And yet besides the ouer-sights in pointing are not very many which be thus corrected IN THE MARGENT THESE Generally a ss is set in the quotation of Caluins Institution for the Section or Number For. Page Reade Beza in Neoph. 9. in Creophag simil ibid. Simler sess 17. 2. 11. number 1. 2. Homil. in praeâ—rat 48. In priorem ad Corint Conc. 56. Canon IN THE TEXT THESE For. Page Line Reade declared 7 15 declare Atheisme 20 9 Atheismes was this 40 35 was it pithagorically 63. 22 pithagoricall I say to solemnely 86 22 to be solemnely Euchirines 135 24 Eucherius established 145 17 establish Cesanis 155 39 Caesarius Pomachius 156 1 Pamachius demised 180 18 deuised proofe 181 16 disproofe The quotation of S. Augustine which is in psalm 33. conc 2. is omitted in the 68. page Hier. cont Lucif cap. 6. wanteth page 209. And in the Aduertisment page the 25. for apud Dionysium 1. Cor. reade apud Ludolphum de vita Christi part 1. cap. 5. pag. 17. AN ANSVVERE VNTO M. PERKINS ADVERTISEMENT M. PERKINS Aduertisement to all fauourers of the Roman religion shewing as he weeneth that the said Religion is against the Catholike principles of the Catechisme that hath beene agreed vpon euer since the dayes of the Apostles by al Churches which principles be fowre The Apostles Creede the tenne Commandements the Lordes prayer the institution of two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lordes supper 1. COR. 11. vers 23. I HAD once determined to haue wholy omitted this goodly post-script because it containeth in manner nothing else but an irkesome repetition of that which hath beene I will not say twise before but more then twenty times handled ouer and ouer in this former small treatise notwithstanding considering both howe ready many are when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and also for that these pointes here reiterated are the most odious that he could cull out of all the rest to vrge against vs I finally resolued to giue them a short answere And further also by prouing their newe religion to be very opposite vnto those old groundes of the true religion to requite him with the like that I die not in his debt Thus he beginneth The Roman religion established by the Councell of Trent is in the principall pointes thereof against the very groundes of the Catechisme the Creede the tenne Commandements the Lordes prayer the two Sacraments THE Catholike religion embraced and defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul fifteene hundreth yeares before the Councell of Trent and hath beene euer sithence by the Bishops of Rome their lawfull successors constantly reteined and most sincerely obserued and maintayned some articles thereof called into question by the Heretikes of this latter age were in that most learned generall Councell of Trent declared and defined And great meruaile it were if the principall pointes thereof should be against the groundes of the Catechisme which is in euery point most substantially expounded by the decree and order of the very same Councell Or is it credible that the Church of Rome with which all other ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree and which hath beene euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions should in the principall points of faith crosse and destroy the very principles of that religion that hath beene agreed vpon by all Churches euer since the Apostles daies as he saith Is it not much more likely and probable that the Protestantes who slaunder all Churches euer since the time of the Apostles with some kind of corruption or other and who hold no kind of Apostolicall tradition to be necessary is it not I say more credible that they should shake those groundes of faith which come by tradition from the Apostles and haue beene euer since by all Churches agreed vpon I suppose that fewe men of any indifferent judgement can thinke the contrarie But let vs descend to the particulers wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishoppe of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saintes are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that prayer is to be made to Saintes departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daylie offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These pointes are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creede which hath beene thought to contayne all necessary pointes of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these pointes nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creede or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundreth yeares This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these be newe articles of faith neuer knowne in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and newe Testament Answere is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all thinges which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this be as they say we must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-seene that did not propound the former pointes to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these later times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many thinges confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctlie to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all pointes of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestantes themselues must needes confesse or else graunt that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that vve are justified by Christes justice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacramentes or that the Church seruice must be said in the