Civill estate and of every particular person in both all things being innovated in both according to the Iusts and pleasures of men the Law and Word of God being quite rejected and cast aside And in the 212. page of their refutation of Master Gifford They have these words We hold that you have poysoned all the fountaines of sincere doctrine and perverted the whole Testament and turned away the practise thereof by your damnable false expositions Yea that you teach not one point sincerely And in the 162. page of this discovery They are made socontrary one to another as it is an impossible thing to finde two of them in one minde yea or any one of them constant in that he affirmeth they know not the Doctrine even of the beginning of Christ Adde hereto Henry Barrowes words 12 and 23. pages of their collections of Letters and conference We will not give any answer to these speeches but onely desire the Christian Reader to consider whether ever Gods Spirit taught any to write so slanderously not onely against a whole Nation the conversion whereof they pretend to seeke but against the blessed Truth of God And how unlikely it is that they should bee in the right way whose chiefe leaders were guided by such a spirit That they should be the Lords building whose first founders and Master builders had either so small skill or so bad a Conscience Doe we not hold all the same books of Canonicall Scriptures which they themselves doe Doe wee not reject out of the Canon all which themselves account Apochryphall Have they any translation of holy Scripture besides ours Doe they themselves beleeve or teach otherwise in the Articles of the holy Trinity of justification of predestination then wee doe Hath every member of their Assemblies recovered that spirit of truth whereby they are led into all truth as Henry Barrow page 107. of his discovery affirmeth And is there not any one amongst us that hath not quite rejected the whole Word of God Not any one that knoweth the doctrine even of the beginning of Christ We know no better way to convince them in this then by appealing unto their Consciences which we are sure will take our parts against them Now this reason also is strong to prove us a true Church for although the bare letter of the Scripture may be found amongst the Jewes and Papists and other Heretickes Which none ran doe but the true Church Yet was there never any people that held and maintained the true sence of the Scripture in all points fundamentall but only the Church of God whereunto onely this title belongeth to bee the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tun. 3.15 A people may bee a true Church though they hnow not nor hold every truth contained in the Scriptures wherein wee desire the Reader to consider that a people may be the true Church though they know not nor hold not every truth contained in the holy Scriptures but contrarily hold many errours repugnant to the Scriptures Yet hath Henry Barrow affirmed in the 167. page of his discovery That to the people of God and every one of them God hath given his holy sanctifying spirit to open unto them and leade them unto all truth Whereby it is most evident that he would have none to be accounted the people and Church of God who either know not or practise not every truth contained in the holy Scriptures In which opinion see I pray you how grosse and dangerous errors are contained First That to every inseriour member in the Church there is as much reveiled as to the Pastors and chiefe members whereas the Apostle affirmeth Romans 12.3 Ephes 4 16. eol 2.19 that the Holy Ghost is given to every member of the body of Christ not equally but proportionably as the place which it occupieth in the bodie doth require Secondly That the promise mentioned Iohn 16.13 Should be made to every member of the Church which in the last words of the verse appeareth plainely to be particular to the Apostles Thirdly That the Church cannot erre and so neither were the Corinthians rightly called the Church of God when they judged corruptly of fornication and of the Resurrection Neither they of Pergamus when the Doctrine of Balaam was maintained among them Neither were Paul and the rest of the Apostles true Members of the Church who though in the exercises of their Apostolicall function they could not erre yet knew but in part and in many things were subject to error (a) 1 Cor. 13 9. Another strange opinion is amongst them maintained in the 156,157 of the discovery viz. That every truth contained in the Scripture is fundamentall For although we affirme not as he thereslandereth us That some part of Scripture is more holy more authenticall or more true then other Note Yet doubt we not to say that some parts are of more use and more necessary for men to know then othersome Else why doth the Holy Ghost oft give speciall commendation to some parts more than to other 1 Tim 4.11 Titus 3.8 Make 4 3â— why doth he as it were make Proclamation and solemne oyesses before some and not before other Why doth hee use a speciall art in some parts rather than in other And although wee doe not hold as they falsly charge us in the forenamed page of their discovery That some parts of holy Scripture are of small moment superficiall needlesse and of no necessitie such as may be altered and violated without any prejudice or danger at all to the soule and much lesse that a man that hath obstinately continued in the transgression of some parts and openly taught the same unto others may be undoubtedly saved though he die without Repentance but on the contrary wee beleeve and teach that there is no part of holy Scripture which every Christian is not necessarily bound to seeke and desire the knowledge of so farre forth as in him lieth yet dare wee not call every truth fundamentall that is such as if it be not obeyed and known the whole Religion and faith of the Church must needs fall to the ground For we doe make no question but that the thiefe that was crucified and the Eunuch even then when he was baptized by Philip were in the state of salvation though they could not choose but bee ignorant of many truths in Religion The only fundamentall truth in Religion is this That Jesus Christ the Sonne of God who tooke our nature of the Virgin Mary is our only and all-sufficient Saviour For first they that receive this truth are the people of God and in the state of salvation they that receive it not cannot possibly bee saved (a) Mat. 16.17 104.2 Col. 3.17 Iohn 20.31 Ephos 2.20 Secondly There is no other point of Christian Religion necessary otherwise then as it tendeth necess rily to the bringing us unto or confirming us in the assurance of this one truth (b) Heb. 13.8
A Most Grave and Modest Confutation of the Errors of the Sect commonly Called BROWNISTS OR SEPERATISTS Agreed upon long since by the joynt consent of sundry godly and Learned Ministers of this Kingdome then standing out and suffering in the cause of inconformity and now published in a time of need for the good of Gods Church and the better setling of mens unstable mindes in the truth against the subtile insinuations and plausible pretences of that pernicious evill Published by W. Rathband Minister of the GOSPELL LONDON Printed for Edward Brewster and George Badger and are to be sold at the Bible on Fleet-Bridge and in Saint Dunstanes Church-Yard 1644. The Publisher to the READER CHristian Reader touching this insuing treatise bee pleased to understand that it was compiled so as now thou hast it without any adition or alteration many yeares since by sundry Reverend and Godly Ministers of this Kingdome who in their times stood out and suffered in the cause of Inconformitie to the Ceremonies and laboured the Reformation of things then and still in part remaining amisse in our Church therein both for opinion and practise endeavouring to keepe close to the Rules of Scripture and what in them lay to eschew all errors and exorbitances both of separation on the right hand and of superstition on the left Who the men were by name is neither now necessary to be published nor in respect of them all certainely known But what sort of men they were that made it and of what piety charitie modestie and abilitie for this controversie they were the treatise it selfe by its owne light will sufficiently discover to the unpartiall and unprejudicate Reader It is now presented to publike view after so long deteinment the rather because First The Presse is now more free and open then in former times to books of this nature which doe so oppose the Schisme of the Brownists as not at all to allow of the tyrannie and corruptions of the Bishops Secondly It seemeth now more needfull then formerly through the late lamentable increase of opinions and practises of separation and the dangerous rents alreadie made and likely to bee made thereby even to the utter ruine of this Church if by the mercie of our God and the wisdome of our King and Parliament some timely and effectuall remedy be not provided Thirdly Hereby good Reader thou maist see that the opinions and practises of those that way addicted now so much extolled wondred at and greedily embraced by many under the notion of new truths and a new and further light as if some new created Star bad now appeared to the world never seene before are indeed no other for substance but the old errors and dotages of Barrow and Greenwood long since by them published and by the godlie sober and judicious in those times opposed and exploded Save that now like rustie weapons they are newly furbished and being but the same mettalls and materialls are only cast into a new mould with addition of some things more of the same sort then they expresly held mitigation of others by them more sharplie and rigorously delivered and interlasing of others more pleasing and plausible to make the rest rellish and vent the better Fourthly Hereby also thou maist perceive and take up the true judgment of the true ancient and present Non-conformists of this Kingdome in these points as from their own mouth and pen. Whereof by the help of God thou maist make these and the like uses First Thou maist cleare them in thy thoughts from the misrepresentations and imputations both of the Episcopall and Schismaticall partie Both of which would make the world believe that the Non-conformists have laid the foundation of Brownisme by their principles of Inconformity and that if this bee lawfull the other must needs bee necessary The former sort thus suggesting to lay the greater hatred upon them and the cause of Reformation which they promoted The latter sort to procure the greater credit to their owne irregular and unwarrantable courses thereby And would to God that some other brethren though of a farre better sort and such as have long groaned under their Conformitie had not beene or yet were not too credulous to such unlikely and unreasonable suggestions against their brethren 2. Thou maist see that the cause of separation may be confuted without relinquishing in one part the grounds of Inconformitie or leaning at all unto Episcopacie As the cause of Inconformitie may bee fully maintained without fetching weapons from or betaking our selves unto the Campe of Separation which thing I could wish with all my heart bad beene well observed by some otherwise godly and judicious brethren in these dayes who no sooner begin to distast and cast off their old burden of superstitious conformitie of late augmented and made utterly unprofitable by sundry other innovations but withall they begin to dislike all set formes of prayer especially in our Lyturgie as unlawfull to question their owne present standing in the ministerie as Antichristian and to abstaine from our worship especially our Sacraments as Idolatrous with other like unreasonable opinions and practises As if it were not possible for men to leape out of the Surplice unlesse also they leapt out of the Church and as if there were no middle betweene separation from the Church and true worship thereof and subscription unto or practise or approbation of all the corruptions in the same An error in some sort formerly excusable when oppression as Salomon saith Eccles 7.7 and persecution made even wise men themselves madde and sometimes in hast betweene feare griefe and anger in avoyding one extreame to fall upon another But now since that by the miraculous mercie of God the stings of those great Bees are pulled out and their hornes sawed off whereby they have so long afflicted and willingly destroyed this poore Church I say now mee thinkes wise men should looke before they leape and so warily eschew one errour as that they doe not unwarily run into another perhaps a worse Lastly thou mayest be somewhat stayed from hastie adhering or inclining to their courses of separation not onely by the Treatise it selfe but also by the consideration of the Treatisers For though no mans person whatsoever can be a sufficient bottome whereon to settle any opinion or practise in Religion but the Word of God and right reason alone yet is not these mens example or testimonie to be altogether slighted especially in this controversie wherein wee are sometimes almost deaffed with the praises of some of the seperators eminent learning pietie sinceritie zeale c. In which case I hope it need not bee offensive to any perhaps it may be profitable to some according to the Apostles example in a case not altogether unlike 2 Cor. 11.22 to oppose these mens learning pietie sinceritie zeale c. against the others Who as in all other things they were examples of holinesse so in this that they have ever not only for
us to joyne unto p. 62. THE Church of Engl. is a true Church OF CHRIST I. EXCEPTION THe first Exception is against the whole body of our Assemblies and our Church in Generall which they tearme Babylonish Synagogues and a whorish Idolatrous Church Henry Barrow in his discovery of the false Church Page 24. ANSVVER THat the Church of England is a true Church of Christ Our Congregations are true Churches For Arg. 1. We have and â—oyne together in the use of the preaching of the Gospell and administ ration of the Sacraments and such an one as from which whosoever wittingly and willingly separateth himselfe cutteth himselfe from Christ wee doubt not but the indifferent Reader may be perswaded by these reasons following First Wee enjoy and joyne together in the use of those outward meanes which God in his Word hath ordained for the gathering of a visible Church for proofe whereof wee alleadge that the meanes which we use and enjoy have been effectuall to the unfained conversion of many as may appeare both by the other fruits of faith and by the Martyrdome which sundry have endured that were Members of our Church and had no other meanes of conversion then such as we have Yea even those men who judge so hardly of us now are able to witnesse with us in this case That if their be any true faith and sanctification in them though it bee much increased as they think since they left us yet it was begun and bred in our Assemblies Secondly If these places of holy Scripture Marth 28.20 Eph. s 4.11 14. bee well examined it will bee found that the means which Christ ordained for the gathering of a visible Church are the very same which we enjoy even the preaching of the word and administration of the Sacraments That which Henry Barrow saith against us in this point pag. 160. of his discovery viz. that there is not any one thing amongst us either in order or administration according to Christs Testament shall bee hereafter disproved when we shall come to justifie our Ministery of the Word and Sacraments against their arguments or Objection whatsoever Now that this is an infallible and good argument of a true Church appeareth Which is an in fallible note of a true Church because First There cannot any people be named that having these meanes may yet by the word be evicted not to have beene the true Church The Papists indeed bragge of these means but without cause for the doctrine of faith is not preached amongst them but oppugned and consequently they cannot have the true Sacraments which are Seales of righteousnesse Rom. 3.12 9 4. which is by faith Secondly the Scripture every where speaketh of the preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments as of priviledges peculiar to the Church of God psalm 147.19.20 So while the Jenes only were the Church these priviledges were restrained to them Matth. 10 56. and never made common to the Gentiles till the partition wall being broken downe Acts 11.19 23. they also were incorporated to the Church of God So the Prophet saith Arg. 2. that this should be the reason why the Gentiles were moved to joyne themselves unto the true Church because there and no where else the Ministerie of the Word was to be found Secondly Our whole Church maketh profession of the true faith The confession of our Church together with the Apologie thereof and those Articles of Religion which were agreed upon in the Convocation House in the Yeare of the Lord 1562. whereunto every Minister of the Land is bound by Law to subscribe so farre forth as they concerne the confession of faith and the doctrine of the Sacraments doe prove this evidently for how shall wee better judge of the faith which our Church professeth than by such evidence Many Papists and Atheists are in our Land wee grant and many ignorant and wicked men besides who make not so cleere and so holy profession of the true faith as they should but that our Church accounteth any one to be her Child or member who either denieth Christ or professeth any other way to salvation then faith which worketh by love or who doth not professe this faith an some measure we confidently deny Now this reason also hath force sufficient to prove us the true Church for as true faith in Christ is that which giveth the life and being to such as are effectually called and so become Members of the Invisible and Elect Church so the profession of true saith is that which giveth life and being to a visible Church Upon this profession wee finde many that have beene incorporated into the visible Church and admitted to the priviledges thereof even by the Apostles themselves Act 8.37 38. 16.31.32 12. Yea and Simon Magus though he had neither faith nor the spirit of God yet because he made profession of faith was judged a member of the visible Church and baptized So the Church of Pergamus Act. 8 13. Revel 2.12 15. though it did toletate grosse corruptions in it it kept the faith of Christ and denied not his faith and was still called the Church of God The description of a Church which they give in the page 67. See our further answer to this in the defence we make for our people against the second Article of their third exception of their collection of Letters and conferences viz. That it is a company of faithfull people that truly worship Christ and readily obey him is utterly untrue it it be understood as needs it must of the visible Church for it every one that the Church may account a visible member be truly faithfull how is our Saviour to bee understood when he compareth the Church or Ministery to a draw-net which being east into the Sea gathereth as well that which must be cast away as good Fish * Matth. 13.47 48. And to a field where the Devill doth as busily sow tares as the Sonne of Man doth good Wheate * Matth. 13.37 39. or how shall that difference stand which the Scripture maketh betwixt the Lords judgment and the judgment of men if men may not account any members of the Church by their outward appearance and profession 1 Sam. 1617. Acts 13.28 unlesse they know them to have true faith which thing the Lords eye is only able to discerne Thirdly We hold and teach and maintaine against all Heretickes Arg. 3. and adversaries every part and Article of Gods holy truth which is fundamentall and such as without the knowledge and believing whereof there is no salvation Our confessions Catechismes Articles of Religion published and approved of our Church may perswade all indifferent men of this Yet was not Henry Barrow ashamed to write in the 10th page of his discovery That all the Lares of God both of the first and second Table are here broken and forsaken both of the Ecclesiasticall and
Chron. 29.30 4. A prescript forme of words bath beene some times commanded to be used in extraordinary occasions Hosca 14 3◠Ioel 2.13 but in them also which we finde to have bin used by the good servants of God in former times upon the like occasions to those that befall us now So Salomon useth in the Dedication of the Temple that very Psalme which David vowed to use at the bringing of the Arke to his house and in the bringing of the Tabernacle and holy Vessells into the House of God he useth the same words of another Psalme So Jehosaphat useth the same words of the same Psalme in that excellent thankesgiving which he maketh to God Hezekiah caused thanks to be given in the same words unto God as David and Asaph had used before Yea this manner of praying and praising in set and prescript formes of words even upon extraordinarie occasions we finde directly commanded fundry times So the Prophets expresly set forth what words should bee used among the people And which is yet more we finde a set and prescript form of words to be used in extraordinary occasions appointed long before that those occasions fell out So we reade of a forme of thanksgiving Fourthly it hath sometimes beene prescribed long before the occasions fell out Esa 12.3 4. 1 King 8.47 Daniel 9.5 Ier. 33.11 Ezra 3.11 appointed to be used by the Church at Christs comming and Salomon prescribeth a form of confession to be used by the Church in captivitie which forme Daniel in the name of the Church used So Ieremie appointeth the 136. Psalme to be used by the people for a forme of thanksgiving after their returne from captivitie which was also used accordingly by then whereupon this will follow that unlesse they can take exception to the matter of our prayers which shall afterwards be considered of they may not blame us for the stinted and prescript forme of prayers we use and that if we want fervencie of spirit in our prayers That also which they object against our Catechismes is of no force for first it is lawfull to collect out of the word and to teach in order the principles of Religion the fault is to be imputed to the corruption of our owne hearts and not to the prescript formes we use Concerning the Catechismes used in our Church we answer first It is evident by the Scripture that the Church hath for the instruction of the people not only taught and deliverd the holy Scriptures themselves and tied themselves in their teaching to the very words and frame thereof but hath also ever had and used to teach abridgments summes of their principles of Religion collected out of the Scriptures and this wee thinke will be evident to such as in the feare of God and desire to know the truth shall well weigh and consider these places t Rom. 2 20. 6 17. 2 Tim. 1.13 Heb. 5.12.13 14 6 1 2 Secondly it is also lawfull to require of the hearers an account which is also thus taught And as the Scripture proveth this warrantable so reason it selfe and common experience teacheth that it is a great help in all knowledge to have short summes of that we would learne in our view and prospect represented to us and to have that in order taught that we would bee instructed in So is the Saylor holpen by his Card the Traveller by his Map and the most cunning workman by his patterne he draweth before be beginneth his worke Luke 2.46.47 Mat. 13.36 51 Mark 9.28.30 31. So he that teacheth children beginneth with the Letters and hee that buildeth an house with the foundation Secondly Thirdly the hearer may lawfully give account of the doctrine in the selfe same words wherin it was taught Fourth'y he may lawfully have copies of these principles in writing or print That wch they object against our forms viz that we conceive them not our selves but they are devised imposed by others is also of no moment for it is lawfull to use these formes not only that are in the word but such as men have devised Ref. pag. 204. It is also evident that in teaching these principles as well as in the other kinde of instructions Christ and his Holy Apostles have beene wont to require of their hearers that they should resound and give account of the principles of Religion thus taught in order as appeareth by the notation of the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is used in all these places Luke 14. Acts 18.25 1 Cor. 14.19 Galath 6.6 as also by the practise of the Jewish Church which our Saviour by his presence approved and by his owne practifie also and which following his example some of the Apostles did Thirdly If Ministers may as wee have proved in regard of the particular state of their people collect such abridgments and require the people to resound them then it cannot be unlawfull for the people to resound the doctrine in the selfe same words wherein it was taught Fourthly This being so it cannot but be lawfull and profitable for the people to have the Catechismes and sums delivered them in writing or in print that they may the better read and learne them Seeing we may have formes both of prayers and Catechismes we see not how this can condemne the formes which wee use viz. That in compiling and collecting them the invention and such other gifts of men are used seeing there is a liberty left to the Church to doe many things that tend onely to the setting forth of Gods Ordinances as themselves confesse and in the preaching of the Word and in those prayers which they call conceived praiesr the wit memory judgment and such other humane gifts are lawfully and necessarily used especially considering that the peoples understanding and memory may bee the better helped by that they are well acquainted with them by the other If we may use lawfully as we see we may even such formes as were collected by men Secondlie It is lawfull for Ministers to use such formes as have beene devised by men of better gifts then themselves and that these formes doe not any way staine or prejudice the fevencie of the spirit then doubt we not but these forms that have beene set downe by men of better gifts may as lawfully bee used of them who throughly conceive the meaning and truth of them as those which the Minister deviseth himselfe If formes thus devised by men be found to be lawfull and profitable what sinne can it bee for the Governours of the Church to command that such formes bee used Thirdlie It is lawfull to use such good formes as are imposed by authoritie or for us that are perswaded of the lawfulnesse of them being imposed unlesse they will say that therefore it is unlawfull for us to heare the word receive the Sacraments beleeve the Trinitie and all other Articles of the faith because wee are commanded by the
Magistrates so to doe whereas indeed we ought the rather to doe good things that are agreeable unto the Word when wee know them to be also commanded by the Christian Magistrate Though we are perswaded by the former reason Yet we doe grant that in some cases conceived prayers are more fit then other to think that stinted formes are so farre from being simply unlawfull as in that in the ordinary and generall occasions of the whole Church they are many times more fit then those that are called conceived prayers Yet it is well knowne that our Law alloweth and our preachers also doe use prayers conceived which we in some cases doe judge more fit to stirre up and expresse the groanes and sighes of the spirit then those prayers doe wherein we tie our selves to prescript words But why doe wee seeke to justifie our prescript Lyturgie before these men who speake as scornefully and profanely of our conceived prayers as they can possibly doe of those which wee read For when Henry Barrow had derided and flouted those that use onely read prayers hee breaketh out into these speeches in the 37. page of his discovery that other smooth hypocrites yet as grosse Idolaters use this viz. the Lords prayer as a clause or supply to their long and prolix prayers conceived before whereby it should seeme that their hatred to us rather then to our corruptions is so great as that whatsoever wee doe will displease them Concerning Homilies this answer wee give The reasons they bring against us for Homilies is of no force That though wee thinke it is not simply unlawfull to reade in our Assemblies such Homilies as are for the matter sound and good yet in regard of the dangerous inconveniences that may come by using them by so many Ministers and Congregations in the Land doe utterly dislike all publike use of them as that we wonder that these men are not ashamed to use this as a reason of their separation from the whole Church But what if all this were granted that the use of our stinted prayers If to have a Drescript form of Lyturgie were Idolatrous yet might we be the true Church for all that Catechismes and Homilies were Idolatrous which yet wee have proved to be otherwise will it from thence follow that we are not that true Church Is this a greater corruption in the worship of God then the retaining of hie places against which there is so expresse a commandement a Deut. 12.2 1 King 11.8 9 1 King 15.14 2 King 15.4 2 King 18.4 2 King 13.6 or then the burning Incense to the Brazen Serpent b and yet it is evident that the one of these was retained in the dayes of Asa and Azariah Kings of Iudah and the other even till Hezekiahs Reigne in which time notwithstanding it is manifest there was a true Church in Judah The testimony of Scripture which they quote in the page 68. of the collection of Letters and Conferences and in the 144. page of their resutations against our prescript Lyturgie are such as either tend generally to the condemning of Idolatrie f Deut. 5.8 9. 1 Chro. 28.10 Revel 22 19. Prov. 30.5 6. Deut. 4.32 Revel 22.18 19 Matth. 15.9 Col. 2.20 23. or such as forbid us to add any thing to the Word of God To the first sort we answer that they have not yet proved our Lyturgie Idolatrie Secondly if they had yet cannot they by these testimonies conclude that therefore they that use it are not the true Church To the other sort of Testimonies this we say that we adde not our Lyturgie unto the Word of God nor make it of equall authoritie with it neither doe we use it to the same ends and purposes that we doe the Scripture Secondly Wee doe wonder with what judgment or Conscience they can blame us for adding to the word by our Lyturgie who will at no hand allow us to use as prayers any of the formes that are set down in the Scripture The reasons also against all formes of Lyturgie The reasons against all formes of Lyturgie are weake and set downe in the 43. page of the collection of slanderous Articles are fond and weake though they seeme to collect them from the Scriptures for wee have above proved that God may be worshipped spiritually and fervently even in that prayer wherein a set and prescript forme of words are used Secondly That this is no good reason the Apostles are not read to have used any set forme of prayer themselves or to have prescribed any to the Churches Ergo they did not use or prescribe any or Ergo the Church might not Thirdly Iohn 4.23 Rom. 8.26 1 Iohn 2.17 1 Cor. 3.11 12 We see not why they may not as strongly reason the spirit helpeth our infirmities and wee have received that anointing and therefore we need not nor may not use any outward helps for our consolation and instruction or for the subduing of our corruptions as this the spirit helps our infirmities c. and we have received that anointing Ergo we need not nor may not use any prescript formes of words as helps in our prayers OBJECT III. The third thing they object against the whole bodie of the Church Object The third Objection against the whole body of our Church is that we want Christs Discipline is this That we want that discipline and order which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the government of the Church for neither have we say they the power to binde or to loose nor those officers by whom the censures of Christ should be exercised Yea saith Henry Barrow in the 160. page of his discoverie You have not any one thing order or administration according to his Testament And in the 188. page such places of Scripture as make expresse mention of Christs discipline as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 15. and 12. 2 Cor. 2 Ephes 4. 2 Thes 3. and 1 Tim. 5.1 are not saith he suffered so much as to be read in the Church much lesse to be sincerely expounded from these premises see what a conclusion he in the 27. page of his discovery inferreth without the power saith hee and practise of the diligent watch of every Member but especially of the Elders the Word of God is made an Idoll the Sacraments sacriledge unto us and all things we do odious and abominable unto the Lord. To this third Objection this answer we give Answ The first part of Christs Discipline which is most subst intiall we have 1. For the works and duties which hee would have performed in the governmēt of his Church are all one in our assemblies Discipline not exercised rightly First whereas the discipline of Christ consisteth in two things viz. what works and duties Christ would have performed for the ordering and government of his Church and by what persons and Officers hee would have these duties exercised We affirme that for as much as all these
workes viz. preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments the censures of admonition suspension excommunication and provision for the necessitie of the poore are in many of our Assemblies performed and by Law ought to be in all that there ore we cannot justlie be said to be without the discipline of Christ but rather that we having the discipline of Christ which is most substantiall doe want the other and so exercile it not rightlie that is to say not by those Officers which Christ â—ath appointed Secondly It is well knowne that the chiefe works and discipline Secondly The chiefe workes of Christs Discipline are exercised with us even by those Officers that he appointed namely the preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments and consequentlie the principiall part of that power to binde and loose which Christ gave to his Church is not only exercised in manie oâ— our Assemblies but exercised also by those very Officers which Christ hath appointed for us the Lawes of our land doe authorize the Minister to staie from the Lords Table all such as are uncatechised and out of charitie or any otherwise publike offenders as appeareth in the Rubrick before the Communion and in that which is after confirmation And from whence else commeth the trouble of many of our Ministers but from the exercising of this authoritie even from the suspending of the ungodly from the Sacrament and stinging their consciences by the preaching of the word Thirdly Thirdly though the â—â—â—pâ—ine were not exercised at all with us it could not therefore follow that we have it not Fourthly Though even through ignorance or fearefulnesse wee were kept froÌ„ it yet might wee have right and authoritie to use it Though none of our Assemblies did use this power it followeth not from therce that we have it not No more than it doth follow that the rich churle hath no monie because he useth none and that a man therefore hath no authoritie because hee doth not exercise any Fourthly Admit we were not able through want of knowledge and courage to use this power Yet followeth it not that therefore wee want the right and authoritie to use it For if those Churches which the Prophet reproveth a Ezek. 22.26 for putting no difference between the holy and prophane or that which the Apostle blameth for not putting the incestuous person from among them had they wanted authoritie to use this power how could they justlie have beene reproved for neglecting the exercising thereof Lastly Though it were granted that we wanted both the exercise of the Churches censures and some of those Officers which our Saviour hath appointed to exercise them by Yet might wee bee a true visible Church notwithstanding there was a true Church in Iudah all the daies of Asa b 1 Cor 5.1 2. and Iehosaphat a 2 Chro. 15.9.10 17 5 9 yet was not the discipline reformed there till the latter daies of Iehosaphats Reigne b 2 Chro. 19 8 11. Ezek 22.26 That also was a true Church even then when the Apostles found this fault with them d 1 Cor. 5.1 2. the Congregation at Samariah is called a Church before the discipline was established there And even in Jerusalem there was a famous visible Church of Christ long before sundry parts of the discipline for want whereof they condemne us were established there yea it is evident that by the Apostles themselves diverse Churches were gathered some good space of time g Acts 13.43 14 11 21 23. Tit 5.5 before the discipline was setled or exercised e Acts 8.12.19 31. Acts 2.41 42. by all which is manifest that how necessary soever those parts of the discipline which we want be to the beautie and well being or preservation of the Church Yet are they not necessary to the being therof but that a true Church may be without them And as we may well call him a man that wanteth not only sundry parts of his body as an Arme or a Legge or Eye but is also distempered much even in the Braine and Liver and heart and the rest of the viâ—all parts so may wee rightly call that a Church which not only wanteth sundry of those Officers which Christ hath ordained but hath also even in the ministerie of the word and the profession of the true faith which are as it were the braine and heart of a true Church much maimednesse and distemper The places of Scripture which they alleadge to disprove this which wee have said are unskilfully applyed In the collection of Letters and conferences page 69. Ephes 4.11 12. Rom. 12.8 for the one of them mentio eth no other ordinary officers out Pastors and Teachers which our Church professeth the other though it proveth there should bee other Officers besides them there named yet doth it not affirme that without them there can be no true Church OBJECT IIII. The fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies is this Object The fourth Objection against the whole body of our Assemblies is that we stand under the Popish Church government wâ—â— reason also is insufficient to warrant their separation That we stand under us they say a false and Antichristian government for that wee are directed by and subject to Canons Courts and authoritie of the Bishops which they do not content themselves in the 68.69 page of their collection of Letters and conferences to call Popish and Antichristian and Aegyptian and Babylonish Tokes but in regard thereof they say our Assemblies Cast our Sathan by the power of Sathan To this fourth objection we make this answer First Seeing it hath beene already shewed that the discipline which our Church exerciseth is in substance the same with that which Christ instituted they cannot with any colour of truth say that all our Church government is Popish and Antichristian but only that it is popishly and corruptly administred Answ 1. The substance of our discipline is Christ and not Antichrists 2 Thes 10.11 2 Tim. 4.1.3 1 Iohn 2.22 1 Iohn 4 3. Iohn 7. Revel 13.5 16. Secondly Though it were confessed that in the callings and authoritie of the Bishops there bee diverse things Antichristian Yet see we not how our Bishops could truly be called Antichrists or Antichristians because first the word when it describeth Antichrist and teacheth us how to know him useth to marke him out by his false doctrine Neither can we find in holy Scripture any such accounted an Antichrist or Antichristian who holding the truth of doctrine and professing all the fundamentall Articles of the faith doth swerve either in judgment or practise from that rule which Christ hath given for the discipline of his Church Now it is evident that our Bishops both doe and by the Lawes of our Land ought to hold and teach all doctrines and truths that are fundamentall Yea some of them have learnedly and soundly maintained the truth against Heretickes
Antichristian which is false slanderous for the office and duties whereunto we are called are the very same which the word prescribeth not those that popish Priests are called unto Is that the Office whereunto our ministerie is called is not that which Christ hath Ordained but that which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto Concerning these points these are their words in the 158. page of their refutation They have served in and belonged unto Antichrist even the Popes Kingd me and Throne the false Church with all the abominable Jdolatrie therein ANSWER I. To which their Objection we give this answer The preaching of the whole truth of Gods Word and nothing but it the administration of the Sacraments and of publicke prayer as they are all the parts of the Ministers Office prescribed in the word so are they all appointed to our Ministers by the Law And for so much as there is no Priest-hood in the Popish Church that is not ordained to offer that Idolatrous sacrifice of the Masse or that was ever called unto and necessarily enjoyned those duties of ministery that are required of us Wee see not with what truth our brethren can say that our Office is the same which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto And if our Office bee the same which Antichrist hath ordained how falleth it out that the Papists give a new ordination to such as having had that which our Church giveth doe in Apostacie shrinke unto them And if it be objected Though some popish Priests are allowed to exercise the Ministerie without any new Ordination that our Church admitteth such as were ordained by Antichrist without any new ordination whereby appeareth that our office and theirs is all one we answer First That though they have no other ordination yet in more essentiall parts of their outward calling unto the Ministery there are so many differences to be observed in the practise of our Church that no indifferent man can thinke we judge the calling that any man hath had in popery to be sufficient for exercise of their Ministerie in our Church Secondly The receaving of some into the Ministerie that have bin popish Priests without new ordination as we take it to be a grievous corruption and such as wee will by no meanes seeke to justifie so wee thinke it cannot by any shew of good reason be alledged to prove that the calling which all our Ministers have is the very same which the Popish Priests exercise but onely to shew either the outward calling which some of our Ministers exercise is the very same with that of the popish Priests or at the most that some chiefe Governours in the Church doe in their judgement hold that there is no new Ordination The first reason against our office is that we all receive one Antichristian Deaconship which hath not force to condemne our office seeing under the nâ—me of Priest and Deacon many receive at one time the full power of ministerie Philip. 1.1 1 Tim. 3.8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ephes 3.7 Col. 1.7 23. 1 Tim. 4.6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Acts 1.17 25 6.4 12.25 20 24. Rom. 12.13 1. Cor. 12.5 Thirdly Although he that is called to be a Deacon be restrained from some worke that belongs to a Minister yet is he not called to doe ought that is unlawfull to bee required in such a case both which if wee should grant yet had they granted nothing at all in the question that is betwixt us The first reason whereby they would prove that office whereunto our Ministers are called is not that which Christ hath ordained but that whereunto Antichrist hath called his Priests is That we are called unto such a Deaconship as is not according unto Christs Testament but Popish and Antichristian Whereunto we answer 1. That if the Deaconship and Priest-hood as they terme it bee taken by us both at once as usually they are then we are enabled to doe whatsoever a Minister of the Gospell may doe of himselfe without the assistance of the Eldership and so the errour that is committed resteth in the forme and ceremony only not in the matter it selfe Secondly though it were indeed to be wished that every office in the Church were called by the proper name which the Scripture giveth it Yet if the Church give a wrong name to a right and lawfull office the office is not therefore to bee refused much lesse is the power to preach the word and to administer the one of the Sacraments therefore to bee refused because it is given by the name of the Deacons Office considering that although in the strict and most proper sence the Scripture calleth them Deacons to whom the Office of caring for the poore is committed yet sometimes also all that labour in the word are comprehended under this name and the ministery of the word is called a Deaconship Thirdly If it be objected that our Deaconship is neither approved nor mentioned in the Scripture because it restraineth us from dealing with the one Sacrament and so separateth those things which God hath coupled Wee answer That this can bee no reason against our Ministers because when they are made Deacons they are not called to do any thing that is unlawfull but only cut short for a time and restrained from some thing which they may or ought to doe much lesse can it bee alleadged against all our Ministers because many of us as it is above said were made both Deacons and Priests as they speake fondly in one day and so tooke the full power and authoritie of ministery without any such separation or many as is here objected The second reason against our office viz this we be called by such names as are popish is fond insufficient For the name Priest though not simply unlawfull yet in our Churches iudged unfit to be given unto the Ministers of the Gospell Bishop Horne against Feâ—kman fol. 95. fol. 111. Thirdly If all were called by popish names yet might wee be true Ministers Their second reason against our office and function is That â—ee are not knowne by the right names that in the Word an given to the Ministers of Christ but by such names as have been devised â—nd given by the Papists as Priest Pri-son Vicar and Curate c. To which we answer first Concerning the name Priest although we thinke that at the first it was well enough applyed to the Preachers of the Word because it was derived from the Greeke Word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that signifies an Elder Yet because it is used now by the prophane as a terme of scorne and hath a long time both by Papists and others been by common custome abused and appropriated to such as do sacrifice therfore not only the most of our poople refuse to call us by that name but even some who have been chiefe Governours of our Church have judged it unfit to be given unto the Ministers of the Gospell Secondly
Testament used by Christ and the Apostles from which the same may be very probably gathered to be lawfull and fit as when the Ministers maintenance is compared to the wages and hire of a servant (c) Luke 10.17 2 Tim. 5.18 and when it is compared to the souldiers pay (d) 1 Cor. 9.7 which both things are certaine and set Thirdly it standeth with sound reason that the Ministers maintenance should be certaine For first seeing it is already proved that a sufficient maintenance must necessarily be given to the Minister of the people how can it be unlawfull either for the people by their owne promise or for the Magistrate by law to binde them unto that which they should voluntarily do of themselves Secondly by this kinde of maintenance sundry of the peoples infirmities as their grudging to give ought when it is in their power to give or not to give their base estimation likewise of the Minister and looking for civill dutie at his hand and many other such like are best prevented Yea we deny that ever any Church was so well informed wherein the most part of the people had not need to have such infirmities restrained in them by the wisedom and authority of the Christian Magistrate Touching the places of Scripture (e) 1 Thess 2.5 1 Tim. 6.8 Iude 11.13 in this point alleadged by them we give this answer First that they condemne onely the covetousnesse of men and not the set maintenance of Ministers which may be receaved without covetousnesse Secondly if they will enforce these places against set payments to the Minister they may as well enforce them against all set payments to the Prince to the servant to the labourer or any other Thirdly if not then seeing the Apostles rule (a) Tim. 5.8 doth concern even the Ministers as well as others why should it be thought covetousnesse in him to provide a certaine and set maintenance for himselfe and his family more then the same care is in any other Christian To the place Mat. 10. we say that the Commandment which our Saviour Christ gave there to his disciples was temporary and concerned that especiall voyage onely wherein for their incouragement to the Ministry our Saviour assureth them that they should not need to feare the want of maintenance for he would supply that extraordinarily as it were by his especiall providence in inclining the hearts of men to maintaine them And that this is so may appeare by these reasons Verse 7.8 First if it be a perpetuall rule we may thence gather 1. that the Minister ought now to have no abiding place neither two coates two paire of shooes nor a staffe neither that they may possesse any thing of their owne Secondly they then received their gifts of preaching and working of miracles freely without cost and therefore were bound from covenanting for stipend to dispence those gifts receaving no more then for their present necessitie of food and raiment which cannot be so said of those whose bringing up in learning is costly and whose study is painfull Thirdly by the commandement which our Saviour Christ giveth (b) Luke 22.35 36. 1 Cor. 96 7. Matth. 20. for provision for themselves And that which Paul challengeth it is evident that the restraint given Mat. 10. was but temporarie yea ad mit it might be proved from hence that no set maintenance were given to the Ministers during the Apostles time which cannot be yet followeth not that there should be none Now seeing that the Church was then without those nourishing fathers which the Lord promised by the Prophet (c) Esay 49 23 â—â— without whose authoritie wee see not how that order for forced maintenance could be taken Neither doubt we to acknowledge even this for a speciall fruit of that blessing promised to come to the Church by Christian Magistrates whereas they said that whatsoever is given to the maintenance of Gods Service should be free and voluntarie and alleadge for that these places Exodus 15.2 2 Cor. 8.12 2 Cor. 9.5 7. we answer That the bond of the peoples promise and Magistrates Law is no hinderance to the freedom and voluntarines seeing the service and obedience of David was free and voluntary Notwithstanding the vow and oath hee bound himselfe with Psal 119.106 Nâ—bem 10.38 So was that also which is mentioned in Nehemiah for if Covenanting should take away the voluntarinesse of the act then should it not bee lawfull to covenant with servants and labourers or any other Yea the Lord our God doth binde Himselfe by Covenant to give that reward to the faith and obedience of his servants which yet he giveth most freely and voluntarilie The third reason they alleadge against our maintenance Thirdly Although we bee maintained by Tythes Is this That we are maintained by Iewish tythes and concerning which they have these words In the 60. page of their discoverie It is evident who are thus maintained by those Iewish Tythes and offerings are not the ministers of Christ and a little after these Priests and people still retaine the Leviticall decimations in the same forme to the same ends And page 16. I could never see any difference betweene the Iewes and them save that the Swine-heards tythe-Pïgges and Geese c. To all which wee thus answer First It is evident that the tythes are not held amongst us by vertue of the Leviticall Law but only by the positive Law of our Land for proofe whereof these reasons following may be sufficient First If this kinde of maintenance were given to the Minister for conscience and obedience to that Law why should not the first fruits also offerings and diverse other things which by a plaine commandement were due to the Leviticall Priest-hood bee given us as well as tythes Secondly The manner of tything which in diverse parts of our Land is diversly used and which through custome also is many wayes altered proveth that paying of tythes amongst us is not according to the Leviticall Law nor in religeous obedience thereunto Thirdly The Law by consent of the states in the Parliament having alenated the tythes in many places from the Minister unto the Prince and other men doth thereby declare that it appointeth not the paying of the tythes by vertue of the Law of God Fourthly Sundry of our Ministers are and that even in the judgement of our whole Church lawfully by other meanes maintained then by tythes which is also a plaine demonstration that both the Leuiticall Law is not held to be in force with us and if it were wee might yet have some true Ministers in our Land notwithstanding Secondly As the Prince without any shew of Jewish superstition may require of the Ministers first fruits and tenths and of all the rest of the subjects fifteenes and subsidies for the maintenance of the wars and other civill purposes so doubt we not but he may as well especially by act of Parliament which is also the act
of the people require tenths of his people to the maintenance of the ministerie of which as wee have said before he is bound to have a more speciall care and regard then of the maintenance of the warres or any other civill estate Their fourth reason against our maintenance is Fourthly Although we bee maintained by offerings and mortuary That it ariseth from popish offerings and mortuaries Concerning which wee answer as followeth First Their be sundry of our Ministers that receive none at all against whose Congregations and Ministers this reason cannot hold and many even of them to whom the Law alloweth offerings have refused them that were accustomed to bee given at the Churchings and burialls and such other as the receiving whereof they see would bee likely to nourish superstition in the people Secondly If all did receive and live by offerings we see not what pollution can come to their ministerie thereby for why may not that creature of God which was first given to profane and superstitious uses bee now lawfully translated to the maintenance of Gods service seeing that even under the Law translation was lawfull when for a Ceremony to shadow what detestation the people of God should beare to the manners of the heathen and how they should be separated from them Many things were made uncleane to the Iewes that are not so to us So also the Iron and Brasse Silver and Gold of Jericho a Iosua 6.24 was put into the treasure of Gods house as appeareth in the story of Joshuab And David dedicated unto the Lord the brasse and silver and gold of all the Nations that he subdued as may also appeare by Samuel b 2 Sam. 8.11 Now if those goods that were not onely put a part to an Idolatrous use by a civill institution but also actually abused to Idolatrie might yet lawfully bereceaved for the maintenance of the true service of God how much more may the mony wee receave for offerings c. be lawfully taken and enjoyed by us seeing whatsoever originall the money and institution had yet was it never applyed to any Idolatrous use Thirdly If those offerings were polluted things yet are they too accidentall to overthrow the very being and nature of our ministerie Our People may beaccounted Members of a true visible CHURCH III. EXCEPTION THeir third generall exception is against our people and the private Members of our Assemblies Whom they affirme to be such as no true Church of God can consist of ANSWER THe reasons amongst us to account of people Our people say they are such as cannot be members of a true Church But we have good reasons to account our people holy true Members of the visible Church for the members of the true Church are these First We know many in whom we thinke we doe discerne infallible notes of an unfained conversion Secondly That all that are by many of our Ministers admitted to the Sacrament and other the priviledges of the Church are such as can give account in some true measure of their faith and doe not only generally professe obedience but when they are convinced of any particular sin they are also willing to professe parricular sorrow and purpose of amendment Thirdly many of those who are wicked and ignorant wee cannot see just cause to account them wilfully ignorant nor obstinately rebellious and therefore we may lawfully esteeme them brethren 2 Thâ—s 3 14 â—â— notwithstanding their ignorance and sin and this we thinke the Apostles owne words will warrant us to doe Fourthly our people in generall professe the true faith and obedience of Christ which makes them members of the â—â—ole Church as wee have already proved and if an being dealt with according to the rule that Christ prescribeth shall bee found wilfull and obstinate in his ignorance and sin 〈◊〉 18.15 17 then as he ceaseth to professe the true faith and obedience of Christ So may wee by the Lawes of our Land cease to account him a member of our Church The first thing they object against our people is this Their first reason against our people is that thâ—â—r can no separation bee discerned amongst them but the consist of all â—oâ—â—s Which reason â—s fâ—lse and insufficient That the ignorant and prâ—phane multiâ—u le as they are confusedly by our Baptisme maâ—â—e memberâ— of our Church and admitted to all other th priviledges thereof so is there no separation say they to be observed amongst them in their ordinary conversation concerning which matter these are their own words in the ninth page of their discovery All the prophane and wicked of the Land Atheists Papists Anabaptists Heretickes of all sorts gluttons riotous blasphemous c. and who not that dwelleth in this land or is within the Kings-dominions all without exception are received into and nourished in the bosome of this Church with the Word and Sacraments none are here refused none are here kept out Wherunto we answer First 〈…〉 â—2 â—1 â—2 53. 〈◊〉 14.4 17 4 5. That even by the preaching of the Word that separation which the Scripture so much commendeth is wrought and evidently to be discovered amongst the people of our Land and very many of our people there be that doe carefully shunne the private familiaritie of all notorious offendors Secondly As all our Ministers may by Law so many of them doe keepe from the Lords Table every ignorant person and notorious offend or Thirdly Many of our Ministers doe refuse to receive such into the Church by Baptisme whose Parents will not make a confession of true faith and obedience to Christ Neither doth publike authoritie of Law enforce us to receive any mans Child against whom it may be manifestly proved that he professeth not the true faith Fourthly children may lawfully bee admitted to baptisme though both their Parents bee profane if those who are in the stead of Parents to them doe require baptisme for them and give their promise to the Church for their religious education seeing they may bee lawfully accounted within Gods covenant if any of their ancesters in any Generations were faithfull a Exod. 20.5 Their second Objection against our people is that none of them be accounted holy faithfull because they obey not Christ nor practise his ordinances Which is also false and insufficient for first themselves know many of our people to be such as have religiously reformed their owne persons and families and carefully sought the reformation of the Church The second thing they object against our people is That the best of them are without true faith because they live not in obedience of Christ set up among them nor practise his Ordinances Whereunto wee answer First It is a most rash and presumptuous judgement to denie them amongst us to bee a faithfull people of whom these our brethren themselves doe know that they have by the hearing of the Word beene brought to such a faith as bath beene effectuall
easily to be forsaken and the worship wherein they communicated with the wicked was the true worship of God whereas neither our Assemblies are true Churches nor our worship the true worship of God or they continued not in this their fault with that obstinancie that we and our people doe We answer That they begge that which is in question between us for neither doe our people doubt whether it be the true Church and worship of God wherein they communicate nor doe they see how they have beene convinced of sinne in this action And we have alreadie proved at large both that our Church is a true Church and our worship the true worship of God and that we cannot justlie bee charged with obstinate continuance in those wants and corruptions that are now amongst us To the places of Scripture which they bring against our people in this point in the 68. page of their Collection of Letters and conferences We answer that they are all most unskilfullie applied for although some a Levit. 20.24 Iohn 15.16 of them doe prove that Gods people should bee separated from the rest of the world Some b Esay 65 11. Ezech. 16.25 of them that they may not offer sacrifice unto a multitude of Gods nor joyne with Idolators neither in the false worship of God nor in voluntary leagues and familiaritie c 2 Cor. 6.14 17 other some that the Minister must deale sincerely in the delivery of Gods Message to his people not mixing any vile opinion or assertion of his owne with the precious Word of God nor applying the Word to their humours and likeing but cause them rather to frame and apply themselves unto it d Iâ—r 15.19 yet doe no one of these prove either that the communicating in the true worship of God with some that are prophane is of force to cut off a people from the Church and covenant of God or that the godly should rather abstaine from the exercise of Gods true worship than use them in the company of some others that are ungodly Or that it is the sinne of the people that such are not separated from amongst them And surely wee cannot but wonder that our brethren doe thus deale with the sacred Word of God they use to fill the Margents of their bookes with such store of places of Scripture that the simple might thinke that they have even a cloud of witnesses against us when themselves could not but know that the Scripture is by them dragged as it were by violence to beare witnesse in a matter for which they have not one word to speake The Conclusion FRom these three Exceptions that have beene above answered they inferre this conclusion that therefore they may lawfully and ought to separate themselves from us in such sort as they doe In this conclusion there are two Articles whereunto we will answer severally The first Article in their conclusion is this The Assemblies which we goe from are such as the Word of God doth warrant us to goe from Whereunto we answer That wee may much more strongly conclude upon that which we have above written that because we have a true Church consisting of a lawfull ministerie and a faithfull people therefore they cannot separate themselves from us but they must needs incurre the most shamefull and odious reproach of manifest Schisme The places of holy Scripture which they alledge to warrant their separation by we affirme to be of no force to conclude that which they are brought for which shall more plainely appeare when they are considered of a part and sorted so as the varietie of their nature requireth The first sort of their testimonies concerne only that private 1 Cor. 5.9 13 Ephe. 5.7 10 11 2 Thes 3.6 14.15 and voluntary familiaritie which Christ hath forbidden to have with the wicked that live in the Church this shall appeare to bee the true meaning of the Apostle even of that place of 1 Cor. 5. which in the 218. page of their refutation and in sundrie other places of their writings they urge so as it may seeme they judge it to be of more force for this purpose then all the rest First the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used by the Apostle both in this place and the 2 Thes 3. doth with a double composition with two such prepositions note a most familiar acquaintance and conversation Secondly It cannot be shewed in all the Scripture where this phrase to eate being barely and generally set downe without any adition is taken for the eating of the Sacrament Thirdly If the Apostle had meant a separation in the Church Assemblies he would have commanded the Church rather to cut off and to put from them these wicked men then to separate themselves from the wicked Fourthly It appeareth by the tenth and eleventh verses being compared together that the Apostle wrote the second time to cleare his meaning in that which hee had wrote before And therefore in this place bee requireth no more separation from brethren that are fornicators and then the Corinthians did think he had in a former letter from such fornicators were out of the Church Now the Corinthians could never imagine that when the Apostle forbad them to eate with Heathens and Infidels that were fornicators and his meaning should bee to forbid them the communicating with such in the service of God for they never had accustomed to communicate so And therefore the separation he requireth must needs be meant only of private and voluntary familiarity If they object that the Apostle in requiring separation from the wicked in private conversation doth much more forbid all societie with them in the worship of God seeing that thereby we joyne our selves much nearer together then by any civill fellowship as they affirme in the 218. page of their refutation Wee answer that the reason followeth not for First It is in a private mans power to keepe from his first Table any wicked man in whose hand yet it lyeth not to shut any from the Lords Table Secondly Each Christian as he is bound by the commandement of God to the exercises of Religion especially in such as are publike so is he to forbeare the private farmiliaritie of the wicked Thirdly Even as a Christian may eate privately with a wicked man or with an excommunicate person in some cases when his company cannot be eschewed as being in an Armie or Prison or shippe upon the Sea amongst a companie of vile wicked men being by the Prince or any other that hath power enforced either to doe so or utterly to want all food so much more is it lawfull for a Christian to eate with the wicked man at the Lords Table wherein he is enforced either to doe so or utterly to want all the great benefits and comfort that God offereth him in the Sacrament The second sort of their Testimonies a Matth. 7.15 Rom. 16.17 2 Tim. 3.5 Titus 2.6 whereby they labour to warrant
sufficiently manifested to the Church and that our Church hath beene sufficiently convinced of many grosse corruptions but that for the want of some parts of discipline our Church should be no Church or that for the corruptions amongst us our Ministers should be no true Ministers or our people no faithfull people which are the very fundamentall principles of their Schisme and almost the very matter of difference betwixt them and us In these points wee deny that either to this day they have sufficiently convinced us or that before the first time of their separation they had in any measure used meanes to convince us Secondly after they had convicted us in Judgement they should have by brotherly admonition and exhortation sought to perswade us unto the love and practise of the truth revealed and to the hatred and forsaking of the manifested corruptions (b) 2 Thes 3.14.15 Tit. 3.10 Heb. 10.15 which is evident they did not before their separation Thirdly the Scripture forbiddeth the Church to eject a private member till in all patience and long suffering his repentance hath been waited for and the fruit of the aforesaid meanes expected (c) 2 Thes 3.14.15 2 Tim. 2.24 25 and 2 Tim. 4.2 which evidently reproveth their hastie and sudden departure from us either before or suddenly after they had used the meanes abovesaid especially seeing that in all reason more long-sufferance should be vsed by such private members as they were toward a whole Church than by a whole Church towards private members Fourthly whereas they should have used all the meanes abovesaid in meeknesse humilitie and love mourning also for the hardnesse of our hearts whereby the meanes became frustrate unto us d Ephes 4.15 2 Tim. 2.25 Tit. 3.2 Heb. 10.24.25 It is evident that their zeale in dealing against us hath beene like the rash and undiscreet zeale spoken of and reproved in the sons of Zebedeus e Mar. 3.5 Luke 9.55 And hath favoured altogether of uncharitablenesse and not of love for as all they that once have declined to that Schisme are found to be exceedingly proud and disdainfull to wards all that are contrary minded yea even such as before they were infected with that leaven were patternes of all love modesty and humility unto others so will they not acknowledge nor reverence any of the most excellent graces that God hath given unto any of his servants amongst us nor so much respect them as the very Papists will doe no they professe greater detestation and despite to the most godly and most sincere men amongst us then they doe to such as are most notorious in profannesse and malice to the truth To which purpose also wee desire that the spirit whereby Henry Barrow was directed in writing his last bookes may be well examined Fiftly whereas by the equitie of the rule which our Saviour himselfe giveth and according to the practise of the Apostolike Church wee should have had our corruptions made knowne to some other Reformed Churches and by them we should have beene convinced and admonished before these our brethren could rightly judge us as heathens and publicanes we affirme that they as if the Word of God had come out from them or had come unto them onely have by their disorderly separation not onely despised and robbed us of our right but all other christian Churches in the world besides Sixtly they have not so much as protested the cause of their separation from us to the particular Congregations whereof before their departure they were accounted by others and did also acknowledge themselves to be members Seaventhly those of them which once exercised the places of the Ministrie amongst us and received for the same the reward due which they call Balaams wages have not before or since their departure made actuall restitution of that which was if their opinions be true most unjustly received nor yet shewed themselves willing so to doe to their abilitie which norwithhstanding by the law of God they are most strictly bound to doe The scond Article in their conclusion is this That the Assemblies which they goe and joyne themselves unto are such as the Word of God commandeth them to goe unto whereunto we give this answere That if they had followed the direction of Gods Word when they had left us for our coruptions and wants as they charge us with they should have joyned themselves to some other Reformed Churches which are pure from our corruptions and amongst whom the discipline of Christ is rightly established as we finde the faithfull Levites and people did in the dayes of Iiroboam and every wise hearted Christian will hold it to be a reason of great force against them that they have made separation not from us onely but from all other Reformed Churches in the world For there by they appeare to have beene of this judgement that till they arose there was not a true coÌ„stituted visible Church in the whole world knowne unto them unto which they might have joyned themselves Secondly the Assemblies which they erected and joyned themselves unto if they be looked into with a Christian and indifferent eye shall well appeare to be much more deformed than many of those are which they have for saken for proofe whereof we desire the Readers to weigh well with the weights of the Sanctuary and to try by the touchstone of the Word certaine points of doctrine which they have both brewed and broached to the world in their printed Books Then secondly their practise and dispositions All their Paradoxes and absurd opinions we will not set downe but in some few we will give the Readers a taste of the rest In the 138. page of their discovery they affirme That such an Idolatrous shape cleaveth to every stone of our Materiall Charches as by no meanes can be severed from them while there is a stone left standing upon a stone so that neither they can be used to the worship of God nor we have any use of them seeing that they are execrable and devoted to destruction In the 167. page of the same booke they teach That to every Christian God hath given his boly sanctifying spirit to open unto them and to lâ—ade them in to all truth Much like unto this is that which they wright in the 161. page of their refutation That it is an execrable position to say that the Church and every member thereof is in some spirituall bondage to sinne Touching the Magistrates authority besides that by the whole tenour of their writings it appeareth that they hold the people may take in hand the publike Reformation of the Church and erect the whole discipline not only without but contrary to the Christian Magistrates liking and consent they doe also directly affirme page 218 and 219. of their discovery That God hath in the holy Scripture made most perfect and necessary Lawes both for the Church and Common-wealth and that he requireth of the King and Magistrase to see their
probable that they were not private men but had a speciall calling to the Office of preaching The Disciples that being scattered through persecutions went about preaching may very well be thought to have beene Ministers rather than private men unlesse we shall imagine there were no Ministers in Iernfalem before the Church was scattered but the Apostles only and Philip who is also called an Evangelist is the only man of name amongst all these scattered Disciples that preached The Prophets mentioned in the 1 Cor. 14. is very likely were either such as whose extraordinarie gifts did suficientlie prove to the Church that they were extraordinariâ—e stirred up and called of God or else such as being separated to the work of the ministerie were by that exercise of their gifts to bee fitted to the full execution of that office as those children of the Prophets were for the like purpose trained up in these Schooles of the Prophets mentioned in the Old Testament And as they cannot conclude out of these places that those Prophets were meere private men so shall they not fâ—â—tle the name of a Prophet given in any place of holy Scripture to a meere private man The preaching mentioned Luke 8.39 the expounding of the way of God Acts 18 26. the exhorting spoken of 1 Thes 5.11 was not Eccleâ—iasticall or Church preaching but only private and do mesticall instruction Some other places which they alleadge a Phil. 2.15 16 Peter 3.12 concerne neither publike preaching nor private instruction but onely the constant profession of the truth and holy conversation which God requireth of every Christian Thirdlie the grosse disorders that are to be found in their Assemblie we have mentioned to which the strange choâ—se of their Ministers may be added For by what Testimonic of holy Scripture can they warrant the admitting or choosing in to the ministerie such a one as within some six or eight weekes before was tramplanted from so Antichristian a Church and ministerie as they reckon ours to be As not onely Master Francis Johnson but sundrie other of their Ministers have beene Sure wee are that herein they have done directly contrary to the rule of the holy Apostle and for smaller faults then this they are ready to say against us in the 127. page of their refutation That he that hath not a true and right calling unto his Office is no true Minister but an Vsurper an Intruder a Thiefe a Murderer c. But what shall we need to reckon up any more of the disorders that may be noted in their Church government seeing it is not possible but that those Assemblies should be full of confusion and disorder where no Church censure can passe without the consent of every private man and wherein every member is made equall in power and authoritie with the Ministers and Elders of the Church These things being so what is there to be seene amongst them whereby so many simple Christians are deceived and moved to forsake us and joyne to them Save onely that shew of sinceritie and zeale and holy conversation wherein they are thought to go far beyond any of us Concerning which wee say that although the coversation of many of our people and Ministers also be very scandalous and the lives of the best of us far short of that perfection we dayly strive unto Yet it shall well appeare to him that will rightly consider these few lines following That the power of true godlinesse is much more wanting amongst them then 't is with us whom they have forsaken for it we may judge of the schollers by their teachers and of the miserable seduced multitude by their chief Leaders and if men do not use to speak much lesse to write but from the abundance of their harts then have they as smal cause certainlie to bost of their holines to say they are not as other men nor as we are whom they have forsaken as the Pharisee in the Gospel said (b) Luke 18 9.11.14 This wee dare boldly say that there was never any man of note in our Church that in his writings hath bewrayed so irreligeous and unsanctified a spirit as their chiefe Leaders have done For proofe whereof wee desire the Christian Reader to consider first the shamefull lies which wittingly and against the light of their owne hearts they have published and whereby they have in a manner borne false witnesse against us In the ninth page of their Discovery they say That all the Atheists Papists and Anabaptists and Heretiques of all sorts Whores Theeves Witches Conjurers and who not that dwelleth in this Island or is within the Queenes dominions are received and nourished within the bosome of this Church with the Word and Sacraments none are refused none kept out In the 60. page of their Discovery they say These Priests and people retaine the Leviticall Decimations in the same forme to the same end In the 63. and 64. pages they affirme That the service book is the very ground worke of our Faith Church and Ministry from whence we fetch all our directions for all things That we are sworne to and by this booke That the Word of God may not be taught but where this bath been read In the 28. page They say we all adore the words of Salutation which the Angel Gabriel used to the Virgin Mary That we worship either the Purification or the person of our Lady So they maliciously say we torme the blessed Virgin And that we powre out unto her our drinke Offerings and burne incense to the Queen of heaven Whereas through divers pages they charge us with keeping Fasts and Feasts to honour of Saints In the 100. page they say Their Priest Baptiseth the childe In the Name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost and of the holy Crosse In the 148. page They say it is vtterly denyed in the Church of England that the Magistrate should be Excommunicated In the 183. page They say that it is impossible to finde two of ouâ— Ministers in one minde and judgement yea in any two Churches of the Land to have the same doctrine taught In the 188. page they say That no one place of Scripture which maketh expresse mention of the government of Christ As Rom. 12.1 Cor. 12. and 15. and is suffered to be so much as read in our Churches In the 175. page they say These new Glasses take upon them to make Ministirs A second note whereby we may try the spirits of their chief Leaders is their spitefull railing wherein they are so rich and plentifull as wee know not how to finde amongst all the rabble of profane and ungodly men any one that goeth beyond them in it our Ministers they call Balamites Cananites Babylonish Divines Egyptian Enckanters limmes of the Divell as bitter enemies as Turkish Ianizaries marked souldiers of the Beast such as know not the Doctrines of the beginning of Christ such as were nusled even from the mothers breast
in profane Heathenisme vaine Philosophie ungodly Arts trained up in Idolatrie Superstition and most filthy Abhomination Perjurie Blasphemie c. These men by precisenes and outward shew of Holinesse Hypocrisie Vain-glory and Covetousnesse resemble or rather exceed the Pharisees And the 38. page of their Discovery Such a Priest as this is a Blasing star a Paragon of a Countrie one of the new found Martin Saints and such People are Puritans or Martinists Preficians c. And in the 193. page they name the Ministers of Geneva and their Churches Classes I dare not say the secret Classes in England doe make Ministers for us in England And these Ministers when they are come over are received and esteemed as Angels in hell and shine as bright stars in this smokie Egyptian furnaces And in the 12. page of their Collection of Letters speaking of two very worthy Preachers they have these words I suppose more corrupt Teachers then these cannot be found is any age they teaching nothing almost truely much lesse sincereliâ— To this we may refer the unreverent and malicious speech against the most godly learned that have lived in the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas as in the 23. page of their Discovery they call us the crooked Disciples of Master Calvin And in the 18. page Master Calvin hath no doubt unsufferably perverted and wrested these and other places of Scripture and drawne very foule and corrupt doctrines thence touching the state and order of a planted Church and more dangerous and damnable conclusions from the same And in the 33. page This and such like dâ—testable stuffe hath Master Calvin in his ignorance partly to confute the Anabaptists partly to defend his own rash and disorderly proceedings of Geueva whereby this their Church became a just reproach to all men yea that which is worse and more to be lamented it became a miserable precident and pernicious example to all Europe The last note which we will observe for the triall of their spirit is their scurrilous and ruffanlike profanesse wherein they seeme to us to have expelled all that in a show of zeale and sinceritie have written or dealt in the holy things of God In the 52. page of their Discoverie speaking of Ordination they have these words He solemnly sitteth in his chaire and layeth his Symoniacall hands upon him delivereth the Bible into his hands breatheth upon him and giveth or rather selleth him his unhâ—â—y Ghost as he shall know by the price of his box In the 73. page having spoken against red stinted prayers and being come to speak against the prayers which godly Preachers doe conceive according to the present occasions of the Church Thus they scoffe at them Other more smooth Hâ—pocrites yet as grosse Idolaters use the Lords Prayer as a close or supply forsooth to their long Prelix Prayers conceived before In the 86. page of their refutation He most sacrilegiously selleth them his pretended Sacrament for their second shot or offering In the 97. and 98. page of their Discoverie speaking of our publique Fasts thus they write Here the learned Priests and Preachers lay their heads together choose out three or soure from among them to preach some of them must play Sinne another the Judgements of God the third Repentance the fourth the Gospel the people are solemnly bidden from all quarters to this Stage Play who as the first invention of it flocked in thick and threefold to behold this novelty He that playeth Sinne amongst some other faults will reprove such as do not diligently enough countenance the preaching Priests I should say frequent not their Sermons for the want of the Dise pline all that mourne in the chine and sigh in secres for it though neither Priest nor people know what it meaneth yet they must now fast and then the fault is not in them but in God Almightie that they have it not If you come now to the second Table they are severe men they will make Conscience to tremble If there bee ever an Usurer or a Drunkard or an Whoremaster they will so back-bite him that hee will not love a Sermon a good while againe These men must beare with them if in the Pulpit when they are ravished with the zeale of the Lord they have now and then a gird at them to ease their sâ—o makes especially now for fashion sake And in the 99. page when the P. P. have ended then are the people dismissed where I trow for that night is no talke either by the way as they goe home or at their supper but how excellently such a man and such a man did The Priest themselves that tooke this paines are bestowed at some good hosts or some good Danâ—es Houses where at night they recompence their fasting and mourning with good cheare and case And in the 180. page They had a presoript place like a Tubbe called their Pulpit and the Preacher for the most part disputes to the Houre-Glasse which being run his Sermpcin action must be at an end And a little after here would not be fergotten the sweet Palmodicall harmonie of the Vultures Crowes Gleades Owles Geefe of the Leopards Beares Wolves Dogges Foxes Swine Goats All these with one accord Sympathy and Harmony sing some pleasant ballad or else unto Davids Melodious Harpe some Psalme in time to stirre up the spirits of their worthie Priest or Preacher who being thus wrupt and ravished with this Harmonie goes to his Geare in forme above said where his mouth distills and his lipps drop downe old Parables c. And in the 191. p. Master Parson takes to him his Pastorall staffe or wooden dagger of superstition where with hee keepes such a flourishing as the flie can have no rest yea by your leave if any poore man in the parish offends him he may peradventure goe without his Bread and Wine for that day and in the 192. page speaking of the Bishops and dumbe Ministers Indeed their Cake is Dough it this geare this sweeping new Reformation come in In the 128. page speaking of Churching of women they have these words she having offered her accustomed offering to him for his labour God speed her well she is a woman on foote againe And in the 244. page of their refutation they call our prescript prayers The smoake of the bottomlesse pit But what need wee any further evidence or demonstration of their spirit Sure we are that by this which is alreadie set downe it will well appeare to the wise and Christian Reader that Gods Spirit never taught men to write as those men who are knowne to have beene the chiefe perswaders and seducers of these our deceaved brethren have done To conclude if wee did grant that the Assemblies which these men have gathered and joyned themselves unto were not equall onely but much better reformed then ours yet by joyning to them with disclayming and condemning utterlie all other reformed Churches in the world wee see not why they may not thereby be said to divide Christ As well as they of Corinth should have done if they joyned unto and fellowed Paul so as withall they forsaked and despised Apollos or Cephas FINIS
It is well knowne not only that many of our Ministers are usually called by such names as the Scripture giveth but also that the Law of the Land in the book of conlecration giveth us the name of Pastors Teachers and Rectors Thirdly Though the names objected against us have beene used by the Papists and therefore are very unfit to bee given to the Ministers of the Gospell Yet see we not that either by their originall or use they have any such contagion in them as should poy son and infect all the offices and duties whereunto they are applyed Fourthly Fourthly Especially seeing they are imposed upon us we delight not in them Gen. 41.45 â—â—or 1.7 8. Though there names were of themselve of Antichristian original and use Yet if they be imposed upon any such as take no pleasure in them we see not how they can any wait 〈◊〉 pollute them and their offices then Ioseph and Daniel were polluted by 〈◊〉 and Idolatrous names that were given them or than private Christians are made the worse by the odious termes of Precisians Purity 〈◊〉 is Martinists or then our brethren themselves are by the names of Brownists and Barrowists which they so usually are called by and so much dislike Fifthly Fifthly Our Doctrines may bee good though wee were all called by and did delight in those names Matth. 23.2 Their third reason that we are called to read stinted imposed prayers if neither the Law nor the people did give us any other names then such as are popish and we also did glory in them our selves Yet makes this nothing to the condemnation of our office and doctrine seeing that though the name of Pharisie were not of divine institution Yet Christ Himselfe giveth approbation to the office of preaching which they exercised Their third reason against our office and function is That we are called to reade stinted prayers that are devised and imposed by men Concerning which they say page 62. of their discovery to the Booke of common prayers all the Priests of the Land are swonn to use it in manner and forme prescribed and in the booke â—s in 〈◊〉 the whole form and substance of their ministrâ—â—â—â—e and in 〈◊〉 3. 〈…〉 book of common prayer is the very ground worke of their faith 〈◊〉 and Ministerie and in place 〈◊〉 them of the Word of God And in the 64 page the Word of God may not be taught but when thâ—â— booke hath first â—eenâ—read and hath had the preheminence To all which was give this answer Is also insufficient for a prescript form of prayer is lawfull Secondly even though it be imposed First that a see and prescript forme of prayer may lawfully be used as we have proved already in our answer to their second objection against out Church Secondly If to have a prescript forme of prayer is lawfull in it selfe we see not how this should make it unlawfull that it is prescribed by the Church authorized by the Christian Magistrate for which we also referre our selves to that answer wee have already given to then second Objection against our Church Thirdly though that by statute the Ministers bee commanded to read prayer Yet doe we denie that is enjoyned as any eâ—â—entiall part of our office seeing that in the fâ—â—â—ie of ordination appointed by Law there is no such thing 〈◊〉 of us 〈…〉 are there only charged with the preaching of the Word prayer and 〈…〉 of the Sacraments and discipline of Christ And that statute which ratifieth the Communion booke respecteth of the substance of our Office but order onely and uniformitiâ—â— Neither doth any Law of our Land deny him to be a true and lawfully Minister which preacheth the word aright though he never reade prayers according to that booke Whereof the practise of our Church is a sufficient proofe wherein there are many Ministers allowed that never medled with that booke and many both Schoole-Masters and others by the Bishops are permitted to reade it publikely though they be not in the account of Ministers And which is more private men may 〈◊〉 Statute reable it in their private houses Their fourth reason viz. that wee are called to read ungodly prayers is also insufficient for 1. We have Ministers that read none of those prayers that for matter or forme can be proved ungodly All which proveth evidently the reading of the Booke of Common Prayer is not taken to be of the substance of our ministerie nor absolutly necessary to the being of a Minister in our Church And therefore we cannot but wonder to read those accusations which are so notoriously known to be false and slanderons in their writings who pretend such love to sinceritie and are so sharpe censurers even of the secret faults of other men Their fourth reason against the office we exercise is That wee are called to reade ungodly prayers whereunto we answer First It is most cleare that many Ministers in our Church use not to reade any of those prayers which you account for the matter ungodly and that therefore this can bee no good reason against all our Ministers Secondly Secondly none are in the ordination called and enjoyned to read such 2 Kings 16.11 If all did use to read them Yet are they not in their Ordination called to reade them as hath beene above proved so that if they reade them the fault is in them and not in the office they exercise Thirdly If they were enjoyned to read ungodly prayers and did accordingly read them this cannot make their Ministerie voyd or Antichristian for then Vriah should have beene no Priest for that he made an Alter at Jerusalem like that in all points which was at Damascus whereas it is evident that he continued the Priest of the Lord still Notwithstanding that great fault which was beyond all comparison greater than this that is in question Their fift reason against our office is That we are called to read Homilies and Injuctions and whereunto we answer First That neither do the most of our Ministers read Homilies Neither doth any law of the Land require that Preachers should read them Secondly If Law did enjoyne them to all and all did read them yet are they not enjoyned in our ordination nor accounted by Law as substantiall parts of our office neither is their any doubt made in our Land no not by them that doe presse the precise observation of Law in this point whether he be a lawfull Minister who doth not read either Homilies or Injunctions Their sixth reason against our office is That we are called to marry burie and Church women To which also we answer First That it is no part of our office whereunto in ordination we are called to doe these things Secondly as the Ministers use to blesse the Marriages that are made in our Land so make we no doubt but that it is lawfull and fit as a matter not of substance but of good order that they should not doe