from the paine and from the fault some plenarie of al their sinnes some partial of part of their sins some for a number of daies some for many thousands of yeares which euery one that paieth mony for them shall haue the benefit of them or which he giueth to such an hospitall gylde or brotherhoode or to him which saith such a praier or goeth on such a pilgri mage such like wherunto may be added his dispensations absolutiós exemptions lycenses these are the popes pardons of which the controuersy is between vs of which he cānot prooue that there was either vse or approbation no not in the Church of Rome for a wholl 1000. yeares after Christ. And these when he hath saied as much as he hath learned to saie for them out of the decretalls Clementines and Extrauagants you shall finde to be by his their owne determination nothing ells but as they are called in Latine Bullae Bubles great in appeerance but altogether emptie and voide of profit The attention of the gentle reader I do likewise require beccause he may see what good occasion Luther had to seperate himselfe from the Popish Church as from the whore of Babylon which so obstinately defended such abhominable blasphemies which all wise and reasonable men haue either abhorred or as he confesseth beene offended at them And yet let the reader marke how boldlie he calleth this article of the popes pardons an article of Christian faith whereof the Church of god neuer heard for a thousand yeares more since Christs assension before the loosing of Satā out of the bottomles pit when Antichrist was bolde to set abroad al his impieties and to sit not in a mysterie of iniquitie but openlie in the sight of al men in the temple of God and to exalt him-selfe aboue all that is called God or worshiped ALLEN And to be plaine in the matter where sinceritie is moste required two causes mooued me to beleeue like and allow of the power of pardons and indulgencies long before I either knew the commodities of them or had sought out the ground and meaning of them The first was the Churches authoritie which I credited in all other articles before I knew any of them or could by reason or scripture mainteine them Whose iudgement to follow by my Christian profession in all other pointes and to forsake in this one of Popes pardons had beene meere follie and a signe of phantasticall choise of things indifferent which is the proper passion of heresie Neither did I then know that the Church of Christ had allowed such thinges because I had read the determination of any generall Councells or decrees of some chiefe gouernours of the saide Church touching such pardons or because I had by histories and note of diuerse ages seene the practize of the faithfull people herein by which waies her meaning of doubtfull things is most assuredlie knowne but onelie I deemed that the Church allowed them and misliked the contrarie because such as bare the name of Christian folke and Catholike did approoue them and sometimes lamented the lacke of them And surelie for an vnlearned man I count it the briefest rule in the worlde to keepe him selfe both in faith and conuersation euer with that companie which by the generall and common calling of the people be named Catholikes For that name kept Saint Augustine himselfe in the trueth and true Church much more it may doe the simple sorte who is not hable to stande with an heretike that will challenge the Church to himselfe by Sophisticall reasons from the Christians that for lacke of learning can not answere him Well this companie of Catholikes brought me to know the Church and my creede caused me to beleeue the Church no lesse concerning the Popes Pardons then any other article of our Christian profession which though it were not of like weight yet it was to me of like trueth and all in like vnknowne at that time FVLKE Your pretence of plainnes sinceritie is but craft and sub tiltie to deceiue the simple and ignorant that they might please themselues in their blindenes and by your example thinke themselues at ease in their ignorance For what reasonable man will be perswaded that you could beleeue like and allow that thing whereof you know no vse nor whence it came or what it meaned But here you shew what faith is accounted among the Papists a fond perswasion of any thing that is tolde them by their teachers although they neither knowe what commoditie it bringeth nor what ground of trueth it hath nor finallie what it meaneth But howsoeuer it was two causes mooued you whereof you professe that hearing of the worde of God was neither The first was the Churches authoritie which you credited in all other articles before you knew any of them or could by reason or scripture mainteine them So by your owne confession you did as many papists doe beleeue you knew not what which faith would neuer bring you to eternall life which consisteth in knowledge of God and Iesus Christ according to that which is writen that wee might beleeue and be saued But seeing you could neither by reason nor by scripture mainteine those articles to be true which you beleeued how could you be perswaded that this companie was the Church of Christ the piller of trueth rather then the Church of Antichrist the mother of heresies and errors For all swarmes of heretikes challenge vnto themselues the name of the Church and require credit to be giuen vnto them and the more heretikes the lesse care they haue to make any triall of their doctrine to be trueth what had you more to perswade your conscience that you were in the right waie then a lew or a Turke hath which crediteth the companie amongst whome he is bred and borne without examining by reason or the scripture whether those thinges which they teach them be the trueth or no But it had beene a signe of phantasticall choyce of thinges indifferent you saie which is the proper passion of heresie to follow the Churches iudgement in all other points and to forsake it in this one of Popes Pardons Where you saie the phantasticall choice of things indifferent is the proper passion of heresie I know not what you meane except you thinke that heretikes are deceiued onelie in the choise of thinges indifferent or that whosoeuer maketh some phantastical choise of thinges indifferent is an heretike neither of which opinions I trowe you are able to mainteine For though some heretikes make a phantasticall choise of thinges indifferent I suppose it is not proper onelie to heretikes for some schismatikes that be not heretikes make such a phantasticall choise and the phantastical choise of heretikes is most occupied about principall groundes and articles of faith not about thinges indifferent onelie Moreouer I would know whether you account the Popes pardons to be things indifferent or necessarie for the Church for if
fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
necessarie to saluation not expressed in so manie wordes and syllables yet in full sense contained and to be plainlie concluded out of the holie scriptures and these we receiue to be of as great credit as anie thing that is expresselie contained in the scriptures The other kinde of traditions was rites and cerimonies which are not necessary to saluation but are in the Churches power to alter as it maie stand best with edification Among which S. Basill rehearseth some that long since are abolished as the rite of standing in praier one the Lords daie and betweene Easter and Whitsontid which of it selfe is a thing indifferent as also that manner of glorifying in which they said with the holy ghost whereas al the Church long since hath said neither in the holie Ghost nor with the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost To beleeue that the holie Ghost is to be glorified equallie with the Father and the sonne it is necessarie to saluation but in what forme of wordes that shal be song in the Church it is indifferent and the later Church hath vsed her libertie herein to alter that forme which Saint Basill saith was deliuered by the Apostles themselues without writing By this I hope it is manifest what kinde of traditions are of equall force or authoritie with the scripture euen they which haue their ground in the scriptures and none other For as the same Basill affirmeth Euerie word or deede ought to be confirmed by testimonie of the holie Scriptures Againe For if all that is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle saith and faith is of hearing and hearing by the word of God whatsoeuer is beside the holie Scripture being not of faith is sinne Thus Basill whatsoeuer he speaketh of vnwritten traditions he meaneth not against the insufficiencie of the holie scriptures except you will saie he is contrarie to him-selfe in manie places beside these that I haue noted Tr. de vera piafide Epist. 80. in Reg. Breu. Inter. 1. 65. 68. de ornatu Monachi Your next testimonie is out of Eusebius lib. 1. Eu. Demonst. cap. 8. whole wordes you mangle after your manner leauing out at your pleasure more then you rehearse Eusebius hauing shewed the excellencie of Christ aboue Moses declareth also that there are two manners ofliuing in Christianitie the one of them that are strong and perfect the other of them that are subiect to manie infirmites and that whereas Moses did write in tables without life Christ hath written the perfect preceptes of the new Testament in liuing mindes his disciples following their Masters minde considering what Doctrine is meete for both sortes haue committed the one to writing as that which is necessarie to be kept of all the other they deliuered without writing to those that were able to receiue it wich haue excelled the common manner of men in knowledge in strength in abstinence c. And this is the meaning of Eusebius in that place not of anie traditions necessarie to saluation of euerie man which are not taught in the holy scriptures but of certaine precepts tending to perfection not enioyned to all but written in the heartes of some The third man is Epiphanius who you saie is more earnest then Eusebius writing against certaine heretikes called Apostolici which denied traditions as our Protestantes do Which is but a tale for they were more like to Popish monkes and friers then Protestantes For they professed to abstaine from marryage to poslesse nothing and such other superstitions they obserued But what saith Epiphanius for traditions He saith that we must vse tradition For all thinges can not be taken out of the scripture wherefore the holie Apostles deliuered somethings in the scriptures and something in tradition Mine answer to Epiphanius is the same that it was to Basilius Namelie that such things as were not expressed in plaine wordes in the scripture were approoued by tradition being neuertheles such thinges as were to be concluded necessarilie out of the scripture As in the question for which he alledgeth tradition it is manifest Tradiderunt c. the holie Apostles of God saith he haue deliuered vnto vs that it is sinne after virginitie decreed to be turned vnto marriage This the Papistes doubt not but that they are hable to prooue out of the scripture except where the Pope dispenseth And we acknowledge that where the vow was made a duisedly to a Godlie purpose and abilitie in the partie to performe it that it is sinne to breake it neither can the Pope dispense with it In the other place where he rehearseth manie examples of traditions he speaketh of rites and ceremonies as is before declared wherof manie are not obserued in the Popish Church neither is there anie of them necessarie to saluation But Epiphanius you saie prooueth it out of scripture 1. Cor. 11. 14. 15. vhere Saint Paulsaith as I deliuered vnto you And againe so I teach and so I haue deliuered vnto the Churches and If you holde fast except you haue beleeued in vaine To the first I answer that it prooueth no traditions necessarie to saluation which are not contained in the scriptures as is more manifest by the second and third text for where Saint Paul saith so I teach in all the Churches of God 1. Cor. 14. 33. he saith immediatelie before that God is not the God of sedition but of peace 1. Cor. 15. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle speaketh manifestlie of the doctrine of the resurrection wherof he him-selfe in that place writeth plentifullie and in manie other places of scripture the same article is taught moste expresselie You see therefore how substantiallie Epiphanius prooueth tradition vnwritten out of the scripture to be necessarie to saluation which is our question But with Epiphanius saie you ioyneth fullie and earnestlie Saint Chrysostome writing vpon these wordes of Saint Paul to the purpose Stand fast and holde traditions out of which cleere wordes Saint Chrysostome maketh this illation Hinc patet c. Hereof it is euident that the Apostles deliuered not all by epistle but manie thinges also without writing and those are as worthie credit as these Therefore we think the tradition of the Church to be worthie of credit it is a tradition seeke no more The sense of these wordes is that the Apostles in their preaching did expresse manie things more perticularly then in their epistles not that they preached anie thing necessarie to saluation but that the same was contained either in their epistles or in other bookes of the holie scripture And so I saie of the tradition of the Church which is a doctrine contained in the scriptures though not expressed in the same or in so manie wordes as the three persons and one God in trinitie and trinitie in vnitie to be worshipped c. is of equall credit with that which is expressed in the scriptures because the ground of our faith standeth not vppon the sound of wordes but vppon
of his manhood thus he saith Quòd vnctio sit secundúm humanitatem nemo qui rectè sapere solet dubitabit quia absque omni controuersia minus à maiore benedicitur That the annointing of Christ should be meant of his humanitie no man doubteth that is of anie right vnderstanding For without all controuersie the inferiour and lesse euer receiueth blessing of the superiour and greater There can be no question then but all soueraigntie and supreme iurisdiction which he exercised ouer the Church being his bodie and spouse in that respect that he was either Priest and Bishop of our soules as Saint Peter calleth him or els as he was out head and pastour it is certaine that all this came vnto him by his fathers sending and the vnction of the holie Ghost and the benediction of the holie Trinitie to which he was inferiour accor ding to his manhood FVLKE That our sauiour Christ by his vnction receaued no gift or blessing of God but in respect of his humanitie it is more cleere then it needed to haue beene declared by the testimonies of Hilarius and Cyrillus but that all soueraigntie and supreame inrisdiction which he exercised ouer the Church in respect that he was Priest and Bishop of our soules or as he was our head and Pastor came onelie to his manhoode as Allen maketh it certaine it is vtterlie false and blasphemous against his godheade For vnto all soueraigntie and authoritie he hath full right in respect of his diuinitie and therefore the Apostle Heb. 3. 5. c. saith that Moses was faithfull in Godds house as a seruant but Christ as the sonne ouer his owne house which was builded by himselfe as God which hath made all thinges For what cause Allen speaking of the soueraigntie of Christ ouer his Church vseth the time past saying he was our Priest and Bishop he was our head and pastour it is easie to gesse seeing he laboureth to establish such a soueraigntie and supreme iurisdiction on earth as is derogatorie to the high authoritie of Christ in heauen But the scripture teacheth vs that he is an eternall Priest Heb. 7. 9. c. that he is the shepheard and Bishop of our soules 1. Peter 2. that he is and shall be to the end of the world the heade of his Church Eph. 1 ALLEN If thou doubt of his Priesthood in this case heare Theodoretus Christus autem quód ad humanitatem quidem attinet Sacerdos appellatus est non aliam autem hostiam quám suum corpus obtulit Christ saith he touching his humanitie was called a Priest and he offered no other hoste but his owne bodie But we maie haue more forcible testimonie hereof in Saint Paull him selfe who in sundrie other places that are knowen professeth euerie Bishop to be elected and chosen out among a number of men to offer sacrifice for sinne And that he is made the supreame gouernour head of the Church in his humanitie yea and in respect thereof is appointed to be the high minister of God the father in pardoning or iudgeing the world it is an assured ground of our faith approued not onelie by the consent of all Doctors but also by the Scriptures euerie where protesting that all power in heauen and earth is giuen to Christ in so much that the Apostle calleth him the man in quo viro statuit iudicare orbem tetratum In which or by which appointed man he will iudge the world All these thinges though they maie seeme to the simple to be farre from the matter yet they be both neare our purpose and necessarie to be laied vp in memorie for the further establishing of our faith in the Article proposed and diuerse other profitable pointes of Christian beliefe now impugned FVLKE We doubt not that Christ was a Priest as touching his humanitie as Theodoret saith but we beleeue that he was a Priest as he was the mediator God and man Fot as some ministeriall partes of that office did require that he should be a man áccording to which nature he might be subiect so other parts of the same office required the authoritie of God For none but God hath authoritie to reconcile man and to bring him into the holiest place into the presence and sight of God whereunto he hath full right of his owne nature and dignitie The forcible testimonies that Master Allen citeth out of the Apostle Heb. 5. 9. haue no force to prooue that Christ is not a Priest as he is God and man although they prooue that he is a Priest as he is man But contrariwise if these scriptures be well marked which the Apostle doth alledge out of the second Psalme Thou art my sonne this daie haue I begotten the and out of the 110. psalme thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchiseà ech they will make euident proofe vnto vs that Christ not onelie in respect of his humanitie but also in respect of his deitie is our eternall high Priest as he is our sauiour our mediator our redeemer as in other places the Apostle sheweth more plainlie and I haue argued purposelie and plentifullie against the slaunderous note of the Rhemistes in my confutation of the Papistes quarreils against my writings pag 64. vnto the end whereunto I referre the reader for more full satisfaction That Christ in his humanitie is made the supreame gouernor and head of his Church we do constantlie bleeue but that he hath this excellent authoritie in respect of his humanitie alone and not in respect of his diuinitie we can not acknowledge For in respect of his diuinitie his person is capable of all honour glorie power and authoritie which in the onelie respect of his humanitie it were not That he is appointed to iudge the world also in his humanitie we confesse according to the scriptures but seeing I haue prooued before that to be iudge of the world is proper to the deitie we must needes confesse that the man Iesus Christ is appointed to be iudge of the quick and the dead not onely as an high minister deputed of God in respect of his humanitie but as God him-selfe of supreame authority in respect of his diuinitie For to holde that Christ is no otherwise iudge of the world but as an high minister as kings and Princes are iudges of the earth as high ministers by deputation onelie of Gods authoritie committed to them and not by right of their nature I see not how it can be excused from grosse Nestorianisme The scriptures which protest that all power in heauen and earth is geuen to Christ are to be vnderstood in deede of the exaltation of his humanitie and crowning of his manhood with glorie and maiestie but thereof it followeth not that Christ enioyeth all that power that is giuen to him by the onelie right of his humanitie For except Christ were God as verilie as he is man he were not able to receiue such a gift which no
aliquid dictum est sed vbi clara â—â—aperta sune testimonia id facere consueuerunt more quiaâ—â— haereâ—icorum etiam caetâ—rorum It is no maruel if the Pelagians endeuor to wrest our sayings into what senses they will when they are accustomed to do the same by the holie scriptures not where any thing is spoken darkely but where the testimonies are cleere and manifest after the manner indeede of the rest of heretikes These wordes of Saint Augustine doe as aptelie agree to the Papists as though they had bene by name vttered against them as in that which followeth you shall see verified in this Papist whoe both wresteth out sayings to such sense as himselfe pleaseth and also the holie scriptures themselues where they are most plaine and euident against him a right pranek of olde herenkes Note also by the waie that the scripture by Saint Augustines iudgement containeth most cleere and euident testimonies which though they be neuer so much wrested of herenkes yet in the conscience of all that loue the truth they doe manifestlie deliuer true doctrine and confute false and therefore be not as a nose of wax or a leaden rule by which no certentie maie be found or anie sure triall had by them as the Papists doe blaspheme The next quotation l. 3. cont Donat. ca. 15. is vncertaine because of diuerse treatises that S. Augustine did write against the Donatists but I gesse he meaneth his booke de Baptismo contra Donatistas where yet is nothing to his purpose or to anie purpose in hand but that the scripture of the Gospell If it be wholl is the same although it be alleadged by innumerable heretikes according to the diversitie of euerie one of their opinions and so Baptisme ministred by heretikes according to the institution of Christ is the same what opinion soever the heretikes haue of the wordes by which it is consecrated and ministred He saith also that the snares of heretikes and schismatikes are therefore very pernicious to carnal men because their proâ—ting in knowledge is shut from them their sentence of vanitie being confirmed against the Catholike trueth and their sentence of dissention being conâ—â—â—med agâ—inâ— the catholike peace These things are true of obstinate heretikes and consequentlie of Papists but they make nothing against Master Chark or for the triall of spirits which is the question now debated betweene him his aduersarie But that the scriptures are sufficient to beate downe al heresies and to reach all trueth necessarie to saluation and the onelie sure and certaine triall whereby all doctrine is to be examined and adiudged the same Augustine doth plentifullie and in manie places of his workes declare and euen in that same worke de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. Cap. 2. de vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2 3. 16. de nup. conc lib. 2. cap. 29. de peccat merit remiss lib. 3. cap. 7. de natura gratia cap. 60. c. Three causes there be saith our answerer of appealing onelie to scripture The first to get credit with the people by naming of scripture to seeme to honor it more then their aduersaries doe by referring the wholl triall of matters vnto it To winne credit by cleauing to the authoritie of God expressed in his holie word written and to honor it by acknowledging the sufficiencie thereof for the triall of all matters of religion that maie comme in controuersie is no shift of heretikes or new teachers but the auncient practize of the best and most approoued Catholikes To pretend these things in shew and not to accomplish them in deed is the guise of hypocrites what religion soeuet they would seeme to mantaine The second cause saith he is by excluding Councells fathers and aunciters of the Church whoe from time to time haue declared the true sexse of scripture vnto vs to reserue vnto them selues libertie and authoritie to make what meaning of scripture they please and thereby to giue colour to euerie fansie they list to teach But Master Charke and his fellowes giuing the soueraigne authoritie to the onely scriptures do not at all exclude councells fathers and aunciters of the Church except it be in case where they teach contrarie to the manifest scriptures of god which doe either in expresse and plaine wordes or els by moste easie and necessarie conclusion deliuer vnto the Church all things needefull to be credited and knowne vnto eternall life as both the Apostle testifieth 2. Timoth. 3. and S. Augustine a worthie Father auncient of the Church consenteth Ep. III. Fortunatiano Neque enim quorumlibet disputationes quamuis CatholicoruÌ„ laudatorum hominum velut scripturas canonicas habere debemus vt nobis nonliceat salua honorificentia quae illis dcbetur hominibus aliquid in eorum scriptis improbare atque respuere si fortè inuenerimus quòdaliter senserint quà m veritas habet diuino adiutorio vel ab aliis intellecta vel à nobis Talis ego sum in scriptis aliorum tales volo esse intellectores meorum Denique in his omnibus quae de opusculis sanctorum atque doctorum commemoraui Ambrosij Hyeronimi Athanasij Gregorij siqua alioruÌ„ talia ita legere potui For we ought not to accompt the disputations of all men although they be catholike praise worthie as the Canonicall scriptures that it should not be lawful for vs sauing the reuerence which is due to these men to disalow and reiect something in their writings if perhaps we haue found out that they haue thought otherwise then the truth is of things by gods helpe either vnderstood of others or of our selues Such one am I in the writings of other men such would I haue other men to be vnderstanders of my writings Finallie in all these which I haue rehearsed out of the workes of holie and learned men Ambros Hicrott Athanasius Gregorie Andif I could so reade any like of other mens writings c. Also Ep. 112. Pauline 〈◊〉 scripturarum earum scilicet quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate fine vlla dubitatione credendum est Aliis verò testibus vel testimoniis quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum meriti ea admonentem ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis What sceuer is confirmed by the plaine cleare authoritie of the holie scriptures of those truelie which are called in the Church canonicall without all doubt is to be beleeued But other witnesses or testimonies by which anie thing is counselled to be beleeued it is lawfull for thee to beleeue or not according as thou shale waigh what worthines he that counselleth those things hath to cause credit or els hath not Againe De doctrina christiana lib. 3. cap. 6. Magnificè salubriter spiritus sanctus ita scripturas sanctas modificauit vt locis apertioribus fami occurreret obscurioribus autem
Luther say that he hath but one sacrament for vs in that mea ning of the word sacrament in which he is charged by the cauiller to alter his opinion so shortlie but in an other meaning neither doth he saie that this one sacrament is haptisme in which I can but wonder at the impudency of this fellow that forgeth this last lie in his owne braine without all colour or shew of Luthers words as though Luther would allow no sacrament of the Church but Baptisme The wordes of Luther are these of the number of sacraments After he hath denied the number of seauen admitted for the present but three namely Baptisme penance the supper all which he affirmeth by the court of Rome to be brought into miserable captiuitie and the Church spoiled of all her libertie he addeth Quanquam si vsu scripturae loqui velim non nisi'vnum sacramentum habeam tria signa sacrament alia de quo latiùs suo tempore Although if I would speake after the vse of scripture I haue but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes whereof more at large in due time This one sacrament whereof he speaketh is the holie mysterie or secret of our redemption or saluation by Iesus Christ of which the other that are commonlie called sacraments are holie and mysticall signes so that herein he changeth no opinion of the thing but onelie speaketh of the diuerse taking of the worde Well yet will our a duersarie replie he alloweth three sacraments so doth the confession of Auspurge Melancthon fowre and Caluine two and all this by onelie scripture I haue shewed before sufficientlie that this question of the number of those signes that maie be called sacraments properlie or vnproperlie generallie or speciallie is not determinable by the holie scriptures because this name of sacrament is not found in them Those holie mysteries which by externall elements do testifie the inuisible grace of God workeing in vs vnto our saluation by regeneration and preseruation are plainlie set forth in the scripture Baptisme and the Lords supper without naming them sacraments which comprehend that whol mysterie of our saluation which Luther calleth the onelie sacrament by the vse of the scripture according to which explication of the word sacrament there are but two so rightlie properlie and speciallie to be termed according to the auncient vsage of the Latine Church and no more acknowledged by anie protestant of sound religion For Luther his enemies shall testifie which were appointed to gather out of his writings whatsoeuer they thought to be erroneous to be obiected against him this is their Censure Negat septem esse sacramenta sed tantùm tria pro tempore ponenda baptismum poenitentiam panem Immo non nisi vnum esse sacramentum tria figna sacramentalia Duo tamen in Ecclesia Dei esse sacramenta baptismum panem He denieth say the collectors that there are seauen sacraments but that three onelie for the time are to be admitted baptisme penance and the breade nay rather that there is but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes neuertheles there are two sacraments in the Church of God baptisme and the bread Luthers iudgement thus appearing by the confestion of his owne aduersaries that as baptisme and the supper are called sacraments there are no more that rightlie and properlie can beare that name The confession of Auspurge and Melancthon which as our answerer saith pretend and professe to follow Luther in all things can haue none other meaning in this matter of the number of the sacraments of the new testament And Melancthon expressely discoursing of the term sacrament sheweth how diuerslie it maie be taken to comprehend two three or fowre And in the last edition of his common places where he answereth the articles of the Bauaricall inquisition he holdeth but two properlie to be called sacraments as Luther before him in his Catechisme the greater and the lesser Wherefore this friuolous cauill is thus easilie discussed to the shame of the cauiller and to the attestation of our consent in the matter and substance of trueth The like brable of wordes he maketh of the title of heade of the Church which Caluine and the Magdeburgeans doe mislike and Caluine in King Henrie found to be Antichristian but Caluines folowers in England do finde by onelie scripure to be moste Christian. Where all the dissention is in the terme which being rightlie vnderstood as by law it hath bene confirmed vnto the Prince conteineth no other authoritie then Caluine and all other professors of the Gospell do acknowledge to pertaine vnto the Christian magistrate and is prooued to be moste Christian not onelie by scripture but also by testimonie of the moste auncient and Catholike Fathers of the Church as it were easie to shew but that it is here no place to decide these controuersies The title of supreme head of the Church graunted to King Henrie Caluine saieth was blaspheomus not as it was vnderstoode of the godlie at that time but as it was applied by Stephen Gardiner who in a conference at Ratisbone cared not much for the testimonies of the scripture but said it was in the Kings power to abrogate decrees and to institute new ceremonies as to appoint daies of fasting abstinence from flesh c. And not staying there he proceeded further to affirme that it was lawfull for the King to forbid mariage vnto Priests to forbid the laie people to drinke of the cup in the Lords supper and generallie to commaund or for bid in his kingdome what he would because he had soueraigne authoritie This authoritie or the title in this sense neither our princes do accept neither doth anie godlie man allow vnto them A third example he bringeth of burning of heretikes wherein he saith The Protestants a greate while by onelie scripture defended against the Catholikes that no heretikes might be burned or put to death whereof large bookes are written on both partes Now they haue found by euident scripture that they maie be burned As though there were not controuersies enow betweene the Papists and the Protestants this man will needes make more as this of putting blasphemous heretikes to death which was neuer denied the scripture of stoning blasphemers false Prophets and Idolaters being so manifest A. nabaptists indeede and such like sectaries are lothe that heretikes should be punished with death But there hath bone long bookes saith he written thereof on both partes If you aske him by whome he biddeth you in the margent looke Eckius in Encher and Luther contra Latom. de incendiariis Would you not thinke this follow had read these treatises for burning of heretikes pro contra whereunto he sendeth vs to iustifie his saying of large bookes written on both partes but in truth he either neuer saw the bookes or els he is the moste impudent forger that euer was heard of for Fckius in his litle booke called Encheridion loco 27. de hereticis Comburendis
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
the scriptures of the authoritie of councels auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primitiue Church they binde them selues to nothing but to the present Popes authoritie and determi nation in thinges which he may choppe and chaunge at his pleasure against which they admitte neither scripture Councell Fathers nor Church For example brieflie The scripture moste plainlie forbiddeh the worshipping of Images will they giue soueraigne authoritie to the scriptures All the primitiue Church for six hundred yeares after Christ condemned the worshipping of Images euen Pope Gregorie that allowed the vse of them shall the authoritie of the primatiue Church or of Pope Gregorie in this point ouerrule them No I warrant you they will set them al to schoole and learne them a new lesson Theodoretus Bishop of Cyrus and Gelasius Bishop of Rome doe in plaine wordes affirme that the substance of bread and wine doth remaine in the Lordes supper after consecration doth either the antiquitie of these fathers or the determination of the Bishop of Rome which otherwise they affirme neuer to erre in doctrine preuaile with them against their new here sie of transsubstantiation The councells of Constantiople the first and of Chalcedon decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue equall authoritie and dignitie with the Bishop of Rome The councells of Constans and Basill determined that the Councell is aboue the Pope The councels of Constantinople the sixt and Nice the second condemned the Pope for an heretike will the Papists of these daies trow you stand to the determination of these Councells you maie be assured they will not But the traditions of the Apostles they holde fast and binde them-selues vnto yea verilie as long and as much as they list What beareth a greater shew of the Apostles traditions then the Canons of the Apostles which excommunicate a Bishop priest or deacon that putteth away his wiffe vnder pretence of religion which excommunicate anie of the cleargie that is present at the communion doth not communicate except he shewe a cause whie he doth not Which admmitted him that is maimed in his eie or other partes of his bodie being otherwise worthie vnto the office of a Bishop because the maime of the bodie doth not pollute a man but the filthines of the soules These such like traditions of the Apostles how are they regarded of our Traditioners euen as much as they list and that is neuer a whit at this time and yet these men binde them selues to Councells Fathers traditions primitiue Church you see how farre Yea you see that while they raile vpon vs for appealing to onelie scriptures they themselues relie vpon the present Popes authoritie onelie Let all indifferent men therefore iudge whether it be more safe for a Christian man to bind him-selfe to the authoritie of scriptures onelie or to the Popes authoritie onelie and whether claime a priuiledge of ease they that will admitte no testimonie irrefragable but onelie the scripture or they which chattering of many other things in the end conclude vpon the Church onelie which when it commeth to triall is nothing els but the Pope onelie for if all the Church saie it and the Pope denie it it is nothing worth with them and if the Pope affirme it thoughe all the Church denie it it must stand for paiment But seeing the sense and interpretation of scripture is the cheefe matter we haue to speake of let vs consider whether Master Charke be iustlie charged by our answerer to haue abused that scripture by interpretation which is the chiefe ground of his preface and which he saith is a full and plaine rule whereby to discerne and trie the spirites namelie the text of Saint Iohn 1. Iohn 4. Euerie spirite which confesseth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is of God and euerie spirite which confesseth not Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of Antichrist c. This text Master Charke doth so expound as that it conteineth a confession not onelie of the person of Christ but also of his office for which office sake that wonderfull person of God and man Iesus Christ was ordeined and sent into the world to be a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his father by the obedience of faith And if any spiritte shall teach that Christ is not our onelie teacher by his Gospell but that we must admitte vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whome to be of like authoritie with the written worde Secondlie if any spirite make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holie spirite but teach that a mortal and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise binde or loose at his pleasure lastlie if anie spirite impeach the all-sufficiencie and entire vertue of Christes sacrifice offered vp once for euer and teach that themselues must enforce it from day to day by the continuance of their daylie sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick and the deade it appeareth manifestlie that such spirits are not of God c. This interpretation of Master Charke saith the answerer conteineth manie absurdities For first the auncient fathers did expound this place as of it selfe it is moste euident against the Iewes which denied Christ to haue taken flesh also against Ebion Cerinthus and other heretikes that denied the Godhead of Christ. Note here by the aduersaries confession that some places of scripture are of them selues moste euident whereof this is one against the Iewes other heretikes that deny the godhead of Christ. And I hope you shall see it shortly as euident against the Papists that denie his offices To this interpretation of the auncient fathers we agree that whosoeuer denieth the person of Christ or any thing proper to his person is of Antichrist But none of the auncient fathers doe affirme that this text is to be vnderstood against such enemies onelie as denie the Godhead or manhoode of Christ. For Augustine and Oecumenius do interpret it against all heretikes and schismatikes which although they confesse this matter in wordes yet denie it in deedes and Oecumenius against all wicked persons which haue not the spirite of Christ mortifying their vngodlie lustes which carie not the mortification of Christ in their bodie c. Augustine also expoundeth the place against all that breake charitie Omnes negant Iesum Christum in carne venisse qui violant charitatem All they denie Iesus Christe to haue come in the flesh which doe breake or violate charitie whie so because not onelie the person that came but the end whie he came must be considered in the interpretation of this place as Saint Augustine rightlie iudgeth or els all heretikes will after a manner in tongue and wordes confesse that Iesus Christ came in the flesh But Quaeramus saith
conscience of men to sanctifie them by their worke whome Christ by his onelie oblation hath made perfect for euer They that holde these points denie Christ to be a perfect Prophet King and Priest But these be deepe mysteries of puritanisme saith the answerer Christ is a Prophet alone a King alone a Priest alone the ouerthrow of all gouernment No sir no to acknowledge Christe to be our onelie Prophet king and priest ouerthroweth not but establisheth all power that is ordeined vnder him to teach gouerne and sanctifie The scripture in deede Eph. 4. Acts. 5. doth allowe Prophets and teachers in the Church but not authors of new doctrine no makers of new articles of faith no traditions beside the Gospell of Christ which is written that we might beleeue and beleeuing haue eternall life in his name The scripture alloweth Kinges and rulers 1. Pet. 2. Act. 2. but the scripture giueth no authoritie to any king or ruler to dispense against the lawes of God nor to any Prophet or priest to discharge subiects of their oth made to their lawfull Prince to binde the conscience of man with new constitutions as necessarie to saluation c. But whereas you aske whether Priests may not sanctifie by the word of god 2. Tim. 4. you are neare driuen for proofes For to omitte that the Chapter you quote hath neuer a word either of priests or sanctifying and to take your meaning to be of 1. Tim. 4. verse 5. the Apostle speaketh not of the Priest or ecclesiasticall ministers power of sanctifying but of euerie Christian man and woman to whome euerie creature of God in the right vse thereof is sanctified by the word of God and praier and against them that forbid thinges consecrated and allowed by God as matrimonie and meates sanctifyed by his worde that hath giuen them to be receiued with thankesgiuing and by the praier of the thankefull receiuer as a mean to obtaine sanctification from God whoe onelie is holie and therefore hath onelie power properlie to sanctifie and to inioyne as more holie by their owne making and not by Gods sanctification virginitie then matrimonie fish then flesh yca take vpon them to sanctifie Gods creatures in an other vse then God hath appointed them as water fire garments boughs flowers bread and such like for religion and sanctifying of Christian men Againe he asketh what doe the traditions of Christ and his Apostles for of those onelie they talke when they compare them with scripture impeach the teaching of Christ and his Apostles I answere there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles pertaining to a Christian mans dutie to obtaine erernall life but those that be comprehended in the holie scriptures as the spirite of God in the scripture which cannot lie doth testifie And therefore they are the traditions of men and not of Christ and his Apostles that areso called vnder which title all heresies fansies may be brought in without testimonie of the written worde of God Wherefore such traditions doe greatlie impeach the office of Christes teaching reproouing his Apostles and Euangelists of imperfection if they haue not comprehended the summe of all that Christ taught and did for our saluation which Saint Luke in the beginning of his Gospell doth professe that he hath done and that verie exactlie And further it is false that our answerer saith they talke of the traditions of Christ and his Apostles onelie when they compare them with scripture For they compare the decrees of their Pope and of their generall councells allowed by him to be of equall authoritie with the holie scriptures as well as traditions Secondlie he asketh what doth the spiritual authorttie of the Pope vnder Christ diminish the Kinglie power and authoritie of Christ I answere the Pope hath no spirituall authoritie vnder Christ by anie graunt of Christ but he vsurpeth authoritie aboue Christ when he will controll the lawes and institutions of Christ as denying the cuppe of blessing vnto the laie people and in taking vpon him to make newe lawes and to inioyne men to obserue them in paine of damnation as be his lawes of abstinence from mariage and meates for religions sake which Christ hath left free for all men euen for Bishops Priests and Deacons of the Church and in an hundred matters beside Last of all he asketh How doth the priesthood of men as from Christ or the sacrifice of the altar instituted by Christ disgrace Christs priesthood or his sufficient sacrifice once for all offered on the crosse I answere the priesthood of reconciling by sacrifice doth not passe from Christ to anie man because he hath by one sacrifice made perfect for euer all that are sanctifyed and liueth for euer to make intercession for vs therefore hath as the Apostle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a priesthood that passeth not to any other in succession as Arons priesthood did whereby he is able to saue for euer those that come vnto God by hym Againe I denie that Christ did institute that sacrifice of the altar whereof there is no worde in all the scripture and therefore a new priesthood and a new sacrifice must needes be blaspemous against the eternal priesthood of Christ and that one sufficient sacrifice which he offered and therebie found eternall redemption The texts alledged by Master Charke Heb. 7. 9. he saith doe not impeach this dailie sacrifice of theirs because they graunt that sacrifice once offered c. in that manner as it was then done meaning bloodelie whereas they offer it vnbloodelie c. But the wholl discourse of the Aposile throughout the wholl epistle almoste excludeth all repetition of that sacrifice in any manner For therepetition of the same sacrifice should argue imperfection in it as it did in the Iewish sacrifices and without shedding of blood there is noremission of sinnes Is Christ shoulde be often offered he should often suffer All which being impossible it remaineth that as Christ offered himselfe but once and not often so no man hath authoritie or power to offer him anie more neither is there anie neede he should be more then once offered seing by that one oblation he hath made perfect for euer all that are sanctified and hath found eternall redemption for all that beleeue in him But for proofe that there must be such a daylie sacrifice in the Church vntill the end of the world he alledgeiu the prophecie of Daniell 12. Malachie 1. whereas Daniell speaketh of the dailie sacrifice of the Lawe which should cease in the persecution of Antiochus and be vtterly abolished by the death of Christ. And Malachic of the sacrifice of praise and thankesgeuing which by all nations is offered as a pure sacrifice and acceptable to him through Christ. The former exposition is allowed by S. Ierome to be verified of Antiochus in a type of Antichrist whoe shall forbid culium Dei the worship of God which doth not require any such
holde thy peace that no man euer perceiue or smell out that I haue so euill a conscience And afterward should set forth my selfe lustilie and clapping my handes together with full mouth should sing Hei how the Christians haue not anie place of scripture which affirmeth and prooueth that the word is made flesh And yet at the last I should submitte my selfe againe and desire to be instructed and taught how they could prooue it out of the scripture which I before had rent in peeces If this were leife and lawfull for me to doe O mortall God how great businesse and trouble might I cause in the olde and new testament as well to the Iewes as Christians These are the verie wordes of Luther in deede Now the ende why he vseth these fond comparisons he sheweth afterward Quisquis enim vult verba scripturae aliter quà m sonant interpretari is tenetur ex textu eiusdem loci aut ex aliquo fidei articulo probare For whoesoeuer will interpret the wordes of scripture otherwise then they sound he is bound out of the text of the same place or out of some article of faith to prooue it Which rule in deede or the like if it be notkept there will be no ende of vaine licentious interpretations But Zuinglius and Oecolampadius out of the text of the same place where the cuppe is called the new testament in his bloode and out of the article of Christs incarnation and true manhoode vnconfounded with his godhead doe prooue that their interpretation must needes be true therefore these similitudes doe not shew that their exposition is absurde also Luther him selfe denyeth that his meaning was to deface them by those grosse similitudes absurdities Deus nouit c. God knoweth saith he that with these grosse similitudes I studdie not to deface Zuinglius and much lesse Oecolampadius vnto whome God hath giuen manie gifts aboue many other men whose case I doe lament from my heart neither with such wordes doe I bend my pen against them but rather against the Deuill proudlie and bitterlie 〈◊〉 vs which hath circumuenied and deceiued them that I might fulfill the lust of my minde against him to the honour of God c. These sayings of Luther declare that albeit he stood too much in his owne conccyt touching this sacramentarie matter and was verie hastie and rash of iudgement in condemning them that helde the truth against him yet he was not so voide of charitie as the answerer gathereth by some vehement speaches of his shewing here how he meaneth them and would haue thē to be vnderstood namely not against the persons of Zuinglius and Oecolampadius but against the deuill who as he falselie imagined had deceiued them in this matter So that the controuersie is still betweene the true Catholikes and the Papists which part prouoketh to the scriptures in their true meaning as the onelie sufficient rule to decide all controuersies of religion But which part alleadgeih the true meaning saith our answerer according to the councell of wise Sisinius to Theodosius the Emperour we desire to be tried by the iudgement of auncient fathers indifferent in this matter for that they liued before our controuersies came in question This he saith but as I haue prooued before and namelie in the exampled of transsubstantiation they will not stand to the iudgement of the auncient fathers further then their Pope shal alow them As for vs we refuse not the iudgement of the most auncient fathers except it be in such matters wherein it is manifest by the plaine texts and necessarie collections out of the scripture that they were deceiued as euen the Papists will confesse in some poyntes that they were This wise Sisinius whose counsell he would haue followed was a wise heretike whoe first gaue the aduise to Nectarius the Catholike Bishop by whome it was commended to the Emperour and had good successe against all other heresies saue the heresie of the Nouatians who by meanes hereof came in credit with the Emperour and had free libertie to vse their conuenticles openlie By which it appeareth that it is no perfect kinde of triall which was first offered by an heretike wherebie he could not be conuicted of his heresie Againe it was not vsed against the sufficiencie of the scripture and the triall that maie be had therebie but onelie to cutte of quarelous disputation of heretikes which are alwaies more readie to contend then to learne the truth Last of all where he saith the auncient fathers are indifferent for that they liued before our controuersies came in question it is no sufficient argument seeing the auncient fathers erred them-selues in some points and no man is an indifferent iudge in that case wherein he is deeeiued him-selfe Againe the auncient fathers are not all of one antiquitie but commonlie the most auncient the purest and furthest from all smacke of Antichristian errors the later more sauouring of the infection of the times drawing toward the apostasie Euen as water the nearer the spring is purer but running further of through vnpure soyle receiueth some taste thereof So the Councell of Sisinius in respect of the most auncient fathers that were before the heresies of those times was better to be vsed in his time then in these daies when they that liued fiue hundred yeares after Sisinius maie be counted auncient fathers in respect of vs yet their iudgement not so weightie nor so meete to be imbraced as those first fathers of the primitiue Church to whose iudgement if all matters of controuersie were referred the Papists should get but small aduantage But our aduersaries saith the answerer will allow no exposition but their owne wherebie it is easie to defeat whatsoeuer is brought against them scripture or Doctor In deede this which he saith is moste true of the Papists as I haue prooued before but vntrue of vs for we allowe all interpretations that are not contrarie to the analogie of faith and are agreeable to the plaine words necessarie circumstances of the place of scripture not repugnant to anie other euident text of scripture According to which rules we must examine all expositions of all men since the Apostles time yea the Apostles them-selues were content that their doctrine should be examined by the scriptures of the olde testament but so are not the Papists for they holde opinions altogether beside the scriptures But our answerer to iustifie that which he hath saide against vs bringeth examples of shifting scriptures and Doctors all which except one are gathered out of diuerse writings of Doctor Fulke for answere of which seeing he hath set forth a speciall treatise I referre the reader thereunto pag. 38. 39. 40. That one example which he could father vpon no man I will examine here The like euasion saith he they haue when we alleadge the wordes of Saint Paull Qui matrimonio c he that ioyneth his virgin in mariage doth well and he that ioyneth
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
them peaceablie she was declared to be iust or iustified in the sight of men Therefore there are two kindes of iustification the one by faith before god the other by works before men therefore a man is not iustified by faith only but by works also which saying of S. Iamesis not repugnant to that we holde that a man is iustified before god sola fide by faith alone or by faith without the workes of the lawe as S. Paule saieth which is alone which comprehendeth al good works as also the examples of Abraham and Dauid in the 4. Chapter to the Romanes doc plainelie declare where the Apostle speaketh expreslely of circumcisiō which was a worke of obedience following the faith of Abraham And Dauid pronounceth the blessednes of a man to whome the Lord imputeth righteousnes without workes which must needes be vnderstood euen of workes following faith because Dauid speaketh of himselfe and of all men generallie that shall obtaine blessednes by the grace of god without merite of workes For to him that worketh reward is not imputed according to grace but according to debt Againe the Apostle writing to the Galathians which were faithful speaketh generally It is manifest that by the lawe no man is iustified before god for the iust shal liue by faith By which texts many more the conclusion is moste necessarie that before God workes following faith doe not iuslifie but faith alone without workes yet not a dead but a liuing faith which worketh by loue Further he saith they haue expresselie for absolution whose sinnes ye forgiue are forgiuen whose sinnes ye retaine are retained Iohn 20. but we haue no where that Priests cannot forgiue or retaine sinnes in earth But the controuersie is not whether the Ministers of God haue power to forgiue or retaine sinnes for we beleeue that they haue such power but whether absolute power properlie to forgiue sinnes and how the same is to be exercised is the question For we beleeue that God onelie hath power absolutelie properlie to remit sinnes according to the scripture man by declaring Gods will pleasure Yet againe they haue expresselie The doers of the lawe shall be iustified Rom. 2. And we saie euen as much but because none is found a doer of the lawe we saie with the same Apostle that it is manifest that no man is iustified before God by the lawe But our answerer inferreth moreouer that we haue no where that the law required at Christians hands is impossible or that the doing therof iustifieth not Christians yes we haue it expressely That which was impossible of the law in as much as it was weake by the flesh God sending his sonne in the similitude of sinfull flesh c. If there had beene a lawe giuen that had bene able to giue life righteousnes in deede had bene of the lawe but the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promis by the faith of Iesus Christ might be giuen to them that belecue Againe by the workes of the lawe no flesh shal be iustified before him therefore no Christians by the workes of the lawe shal be iustified before him Moreouer we are saued by grace through faith not of workes Ergo Christians for none els are saued are iustified through faith without workes Yet againe they haue expresselie Psal. 75. Vowe ye and render your vowes we haut no where vowe ye not or if you haue vowed breake your vowes we confesse the Prophet willeth the people to vowe yet he meaneth onelie thinges lawfull and in their power to performe we bid no man to breake his vowe if it be lawful and possible but if he haue vowed to goe a pilgrimage which is Idolatrie or to liue vnmaried which is not able to liue continentlie we exhort him to repent of his wicked or vnaduised vowe to serue God as he hath appointed or to vse the remedie that God hath prouided They haue againe expreslie Keepe the traditions which ye haue learned either by worde or epistle 2. Thess. 2. we haue no where the Apostles left noe traditions to the Church vnwritten Saint Paull willeth the Thessalonians to keepe the traditions or doctrine which he had deliuered vnto them either by word of mouth or by his epistle This prooueth not that the Apostles left any traditions which are no where written in the holie scripture because they were not all written in the epistle of Saint Paul to the Thessalonians But we haue expresselie that the holie scriptures are able to make vs wise to saluation to make the man of God perfect and prepared to all good works which things seing we haue fufficientlie in the holie scriptures we neither regard nor receiue any other doctrine vnder name of tradition of the Apo stles or of Angels from heauen Still they haue expresselie If thou wilt enter into life keepe the commaundements and when he said he did that already if thou wilt be perfect go sel all thou hast giue to the poore follow me And we haue no where that either the commaundements of God cannot be kept or that we are not bound vnto them or that there is no degree of life one perfecter then another We graunt that who so by good deeds will seeke to enter into life as that yong man did must doe the deedes of the commaundements which if he can doe he shal liue by them but albeit he boasted that he had kept the commaundements yet it followeth not that he did keepe them indeede and as god required but was a blinde hipocrite and sought to iustifie him-selfe according to the heresie of the Pharisies That we are not bound to keepe the commaundements as neere as God will giue vs grace is no article of ours but a slaunder of his Finallie we denie that anie mortall mans life is perfect yet we graunt that some mens liues come neerer to perfection then other some Neither doth our Sauiours words include perfection in selling his goodes nor in giuing them to the poore for if a man bestowe all his goodes to feede the poore and haue not loue he is nothing but he addeth that he must followe Christ and take vp his crosse and so by Christs grace he shal attaine vnto perfection which he falselie imagined that he he had obtained by a pharizaical obseruation of the lawe this fauoreth not Monkes and friers more then hipocrites and liers Beside this They haue expresselie worke your owne saluation with feare and tremhling Phil. 2. we haue no where either that a man can worke nothing toward his owne saluation being holpen with the grace of God or that a man should make it of his beliefe that he shall be saued without all doubt or feare The saying of Saint Paull we acknowledge that men should worke out their owne saluation with feare and trembling together with the next verse following for it is God that worketh in
you both to wil and to be hable to do for his owne good pleasure whereupon we conclude that though a man is willed to worke his owne saluation by walking in that waie which god hath appointed for them that shal be saued yet he can doe nothing by his owne strength but all that he doth is of the grace of god for by grace you are saued through faith that not of your selues it is the gift of God To be short we make not the grace of God an helper onelie but a wholl doer and bringer to passe in vs of our saluation and of all thinges tending thereto For we are not apt of our selues as of our selues to thinke anie thing belonging thereto but our aptnes is of God Nor I saith Saint Paul but the grace of God which is with me Againe we haue infinit places of scripture to prooue that a man ought not to dout of his saluatiō in respect of the truth of Gods promises although we ought to feare trem ble at Gods iudgements and although we cannot be alwaies voide of feare in respect of our own weakenes Furthermore they haue expresselie doe ye the worthie fruites of penance Luc. 3. we haue no where that faith onelie is sufficient without all satisfaction and all other workes of penance on our partes The fruites worthie of repentance we acknowledge to be necessaire to declare vnfained repentance but not for satisfaction of Gods iustice which is blasphemous against the satisfaction of Christes death But that a faith which is fruitles or voide of the workes of repentance should be sufficient to saluation or Iustification we doe vtterlie deny as a thing contrary to the scriptures Yet againe they haue expresselie that euerie man shal be saued according to his workes Apo. 20. we haue no where that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith We confesse as the text is that euerie man shal be iudged according to his workes and so perhaps he would haue saide if the corrector had done his part neither doe we affirme that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith for triall of their faith shal be made by their workes Once againe they haue expresselie that there remaineth aretribution stipend and paie to euery good worke in heauen Marc. 9. 1. Cor. 3. Apoc. 22. Ps. 118. we haue as he saith no where that good workes done in Christ do merite nothing In the 3. text quoted out of the new testament is all one word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth a rewarde whether it be freelie giuen or deserued by laboure To him that worketh saith Saint Paule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rewarde is not accompted according to grace but according to debt But God is debter to no man Neither is there anie merit of good workes once named in the scriptures but against the merit of good workes Christ saith epxresselie when you haue done all thinges that are commaunded vnto you saie we are vnprofitable seruants and the paie wages stipend merite or desert of an vnprofitable seruant is shewed Matt. 25. 30. Cast out the vnprofitable seruant into vtter darkenesse there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth It is therfore the grace mercie and trueth of Gods promise whereby we claime rewarde and not the merites desert or debt of our good workes To that he saieth they haue expresselie praier and sacrifice for the dead in the second of the Maccaebees We answer that booke of Macabes to be no holie Scripture out of which he might haue expresselie a man commended for killing himselfe Whether Angels present good workes and almesdeedes before God and whether Saintes departed do praie for them that are aliue which he gathereth out of the Apocriphal bookes of Tobie and the Maccabes we make no question as of matters not reuealed in the canonicall scriptures But if they were graunted to be so yet it followeth not that men aliue must or may praie to Angels or Saintes departed Last of all out of the canonicall scripture he saieth they haue expresselie that the affliction which Daniell vsed vpon his bodie was acceptable in the sight of God Dan. 10. and we haue no where that such voluntarie corporall afflictions are in vaine But which of vs saith that such voluntarie corporall affliction as Daniell vsed and to such end as he did vse them are in vaine No man verilie You see therefore that while he boasteth of expresse words of scripture against vs he is driuen either to glose vpon the text or to faine some opinion vnto vs which we holde not at all and that all his bragges are but winde and wordes without matter as of one that-fcareth no shame because his heade is hidden The third waie of triall is necessarie collections made and inferred vpon the scriptures which we are willing to acknowledge and admitte to be of as great authoritie as the expresse words of the scripture But to discerne what is necessarie collection and what is not necessarie collection when there is no expresse wordes of scripture there is no certaine waie but the iudgement of Logicke for that onelie is necessarie collection which out of expresse words of scripture or articles of faith or other groundes confessed to be necessarilie gathered out of the holie scripture may be rightly concluded in a true and lawfull syllogisme whatsoeuer cannot be so concluded is no necessarie collection But our answerer saith we must referre our selues to the auncient primitiue Church for this meaning and his reason is For it is like they knew it best for that they liued nearer to the writers thereof then we doe who could well declare vnto them what was the meaning of the same we doe willinglie yeald to consult with the auncient primitiue Church to be holpen with their collections but to admit all their collections without examining them were to admit many errors that euen the Papists doe condemne for errors and which are reprooued by the scriptures them-selues Let one example serue in stead of manie S. Ierome collecteth out of this scripture It is good not to touch a woman that therefore it is euill to touch a woman Euerie man doth see that this is an vnnecessary collection and so are many other in the auncient fathers writings Wherefore we must vse the gift of knowledge of right gathering and concluding which God hath giuen not to be vnprofitable vnto his Church but to be both beneficiall and necessarie Againe marke the feeble reason vpon which our answerer groundeth his saying It is like they knew it best he cannot say it is necessarie that they knew it best then how prooueth he that it is like because they liued neerer to the writers then we doe who could well declare the meaning vnto them In deede if we had the writings of them that liued so neere vnto the Apostles that they might heare their meaning of their owne mouthes it were some likeliehood and yet no necessarie proofe
heretikes did holde it But he rather doth offer manifest wrong to Doctor Fulke whovseth not to reason so looselie But rather concludeth that praier for the dead is an error because it was first inuented and practized by an heretike For all trueth hath an higher and more auncient spring then anie heretike or heresie But for so much as he hath answered this wholl obiection sufficientlie in his confutation of Popish quarrells I will send the reader thither where he shall finde that which maie satisfie him in this matter The last kinde of triall whereof he will speake at this time is to consider the manner of olde heretikes and to compare the same with ours And here he would haue the two former conditions obserued To wit that we consider such qualities onelie as were accounted hereticall in them and to examine them truelie in our selues The maners of heretikes is no sure way of trial for heretikes come often times in sheepes clothing pretending greater holinesse in conuersation then true Catholikes do But let vs see how he will prooue vs heretikes by this kinde oftriall For example saith he Saint Augustine doth note it as an heretcall propertie in the Donatistes to hate the sea of Rome and to call it the chaire of pesttlence Doth this agree to the Protestants or to vs as also defaming of the said sea for the euill pretended life of some particular men But here he breaketh his owne conditions For Petilian did not hate the sea of Rome as the sea of Antichrist For the Donatistes had their mock-Bishop at Rome also But he railed vpon all the chaires or sees of all Catholike Bishops and on the Bishops them selues that were not of his schisme and heresie and on the Apostolike chaire of Ierusalem as wel as on that of Rome Againe the Donatistes called the chaire of Rome the chaire of pestilence when it was the chaire of a Catholike Bishop we call it the chaire of pestilence now that it is the seat of the beast and great whore of Babilon Antichrist As Esay calleth Ierusalem an harlot which yet sometime had bene a faithful citie Wherefore the example of the Donatistes maketh nothing against vs. Another hereticall tricke Augustine noteth in them to persuade the people that the visibie Church had erred oppressed the true Church banishing her from the sight of the world Doe not our aduersaries saith the answerer saie the verie same No sir we haue nothing to doe with the Donatistes whome the Papists doe resemble more then we For in the place quoted there is no talke of the visible Church as you note in your example But this is the matter The Donastites affirmed that the Church was vtterlie lost in all other partes of the worlde and remained onely in Africa and in the part of Donatus So the Papists affirme that the Church was lost in all other partes of the world and remained onelie in Europe and in the part of the pope But we holde that the Catholike Church of Christ is dispersed ouer all the wholl world where the name of Christ is called vpon as Saint Augustine in the same place sheweth out of the scripture that it must be euen among them that either know not or els acknowledge not the Bishop of Romes authoritie That he chargeth vs for condemning all the Church for the faultes of some as the Donatists did we do not But rather the answerer faulteth herein with the Donatistes who vpon shamefull slaunders inuented to deface the godlie life of Luther Caluine Beza and such like laboureth to bring the trueth of their Doctrine in discredite as the Donatistes did by charging the Bishop of Carthage and others with treason against Christ in deliuering the bookes of his Gospell to the gentiles to be burned But yet moreouer he noteth against the same heretikes saith he for hating and condemning the life of Monkes as also for drawing nunnes out of their cloistures and ioyning them-selues with the same in pretended wedlock To reprooue the life of them that were innocent was a point of hereticall malice but to hate and condemne the life of detestable hypocrites and abhominable liuers as the moste of the Popish monkes and nunnes were and are is an argument of Godlie zeale an hypocrite and an holie man an heretike a Catholike maie doe the same actions oftentimes which differ not in the kinde of action but in the end purpose cause and manner of doeing But where findeth our answerer the Donatistes noted as he saith for hating and condemning the life of Monkes drawing Nunnes out of cloistures and ioyning them with themselues in pretended wedlock His quotation sendeth vs to the second booke against the epistle of Parmenian cap. 9. and Ep. 169. ad Eusebium But in neither of both places is this noted in them for they hated not the life of Monkes and Nunnes which had such of their owne as in the former place Saint Augustines words are Annon cum mach is particulam suam ponunt qui greges ebrios sanctimonialium suarum cum gregibus ebri is circumcellionum die noctuque permixtos vagari turpiter sinunt Do they not put their parte with adulterers which suffer the dronken flockes of their owne nunnes with the dronken flockes of the circumcellions daie and night mingled together to wander about filthelie This is all that he writeth there of monkes or nunnes which whether it do more neerelie touch the life of Popish nunnes lymiting friers then the conuersation of Protestants let the indifferent reader iudge In the epistle to Eusebius he complaineth of one 〈◊〉 which sometime had beene a Subdeacon of the Church of Sanianum who when he was forbidden to haue such accesse vnto the nunnes as was against the discipline and despised orderlie and wholsome precepts he was remooued from the cleargie and being him-selfe stirred vp against the discipline of God he remoued him selfe vnto them and was rebaptized Also two nunnes with their tenants out of the ground of the Catholike Christians whether the same man remooued or whether they followed him them selues yet were they rebaptized and were with the flockes of Circumcellions among the wandring flockes of women which therefore would haue no husbands lest they should haue discipline The proud fellow boasteth him-selfe in the madde banquets of detestable drunkennesse reioycing that a moste broad license of naughtie conuersation is opened vnto him from whence in the Catholike Church he was prohibited Here is neither the hatred and condemning of Monkes liues nor drawing of nunnes out of cloistures nor ioyning them in pretended wedlock noted in the Donatists But two light nunnes by a quondam clearke either conuaied by their consent or following him out of the ground of Christian Catholikes into the sect and groundes occupied by the Donatistes c. In the same epistle also he speaketh of the daughter of a certaine tenant of the Church that was caried awaie by the Donatists against her parents
some fault the other for sawe the seedes of superstition and Idolatrie then in sowing better then he yet are not Saint Paul Barnabas Ierome hereby noted for heretikes But for railing saie you and foule scurrilitie such as Protestants vse ordinarilie against vs and among them selues when they dissent I dare auow to be proper to them and their ancetora onelie All this while you tell vs not what you call railing and foule scurrilitie except you meane that the verie same odious termes which are lawfull or tollerable in you be railing and foule scurrilitie in vs onelie because you accompt vs heretikes and then we must accompt you to be trifling sophisters which to conuince vs of railing can bring none other arguments but that which is the wholl matter in contro uersie betweene vs namelie whether we or you be the heretikes and yet you dare auow railing foule scurrility such as Protestantes vse against you not onelie to agree to vs but also to be proper to vs our ancetors by whom you vn derstand none but heretiks Othe modesty of Papistes among whome no one person can be found that euer vsed railing or scurrilitie if this be true that you dare auow of the propertie of heretikes and of all them whome you take for such But it is good to examine your reason by which you would prooue railing to be proper vnto gospellers as you terme them and thereby easilie take a scantling of the diuersitie of their spirits from Popish Catholikes First the mouth speaketh according to the aboundance of the heart which is trew in such sense as it is spoken of by our Sauiour Christ for wickednesse is first bred in the heart before it breake forth of the mouth but it followeth not thereof that you conclude when you saie I meane a man maie be knowne by his speach for then the wickednes of euerie hypocrite might appeare by his talke which is vntrue But Saint Peter said vnto Simon Magus vpon his onelie speech saie you I see thee to be in the verie gall of bitternes c. yet was it no railing speech which Simon Magus vttered nor dissembled speech for he plainlie professed that he was desirous to buie the gift of the holie ghost and last of al it was not onelie speach for the text saith he offered mony for his march andise for otherwise his onelie words as they are reported by Saint Luke were not sufficient to discouer so great wickednes of his heart giue vnto me also this power that vpon whomsoeuer I laie my handes he maie receiue the holie ghost it might haue bene thought vpon this onelie speech that Simon latelie baptized was desirous to haue beene a Minister of the dispensation of the holie ghost to the benefit of gods Church by the graunt of the Apostles if he had not profered monie also by which his couetousnes and other wicked blasphemous opinions of the holie ghost were plainlie discouered You shew your selfe therefore to be a man mightie in the scriptures that can bring no better example or proofe that one by his onelie speech sometime maie be sufficientlie conuicted of the wickednes of his hart then this of Peter and Simon Magus where onelie speech was not vsed and the speech that was vsed was not of it selfe able to discouer the heart of him that spake In matters of greater controuersie betwixt vs perhaps you are better exercised or els we are like to finde feeble arguments on your behalfe To proceede you saie the scripture is plaine in this point what point that a man maie be knowne alwaies by his speech for that he maie sometime thereby be abundantlie conuinced we doubt not well what saith the scripture he that hath not the spirit of Christ appertaineth not to Christ. This is most true of the spirit of adoption which also sheweth it selfe in the fruites of mortification and renouation But hereof we maie not conclude thatall thinges in them that haue the spirit of Christ. are perfect so that they neuer offended no not in wordes or that in whomesoeuer appeereth anie thing which proceedeth not from the spirite of Christ as in the best there do manie things they are therefore to be iudged void of the spirit of Christ. And therefore we maie see what sound diuinitie you teach and how well you vnderstand the scriptures vpon which you conclude as followeth Now then if we consider the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and of all godlie Christians from the beginning and the furious reprochfull and vnclean spirit of Sathan and all heretikes from time to time and do compare them with the writings of both partes at this daie we maie easilie take ascantling of the diuersitie of their spirites Verilie it shall be found as hard a matter as it was before you made this demonstration for notwithstanding we acknowledge the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ and Christians yet you confesse and the scripture is plentifull to prooue that Christ and his Apostles against the wicked and obstinate enemies of the trueth vsed most hott vehement and sharpe speeches and they which haue trueth on their side maie vse the like in like causes by their examples So that by vehemencie of speech the cause can not so easilie be discerned neither is your scantling right to be taken thereby Those kinde of speaches for the moste parte are to be accompted furious reprochfull and vncleane which are vttered of malice against the trueth when the same being spoken of zeale against falsehood maie wel stand with the quiet calme and sober spirit of Christ. Yet are there also certaine vncleane reprochfull and scurrilous speaches which serue not so much to describe falsehood and sinne to the detestation thereof as they seeme of them-selues to bewraie the hatred and intemperate heate of them that vse them against the persons of other and these in no case are commendable but to be reprooued whether they be found in Papistes or Protestantes as neither of both perhapsmaie be cleerelie excused of this falt By this it may be gathered what railing is properlie not euery hot worde as you saie but such as are vsed in an euill cause against trueth iustice of malice commonlie sometime of immoderate zeale such as be offensiue in what cause soeuer or of what zeale soeuer they be vsed and such railing I dare auouch you shall not be able to prooue that it is proper to Protestantes no nor to heretikes For there be heretikes which not with railinges and reprochfull speeches make diuisions in the Church beside the Doctrine of Christ but with faire smooth flatering talke deceiue the harts of the simple therfore railing is not a proper and perpetuall note of heretikes Now as concerning your examples first you begin with Master Charke asking what more venemous wordes can be imagined then these of scorpions poysoned spiders and the like vsed by Master Charke against reuerend men Here except you can first
the noble virgine Eustochium testified how litle he preuayled with such immoderate austerity to subdew the lust of his slesh vntil by importunitie of prayers he obteined rest of his vnquiet minde from Christ. Although his wordes be not as you haue set them downe that his skinne was as blacke as an Ethiopian but his deformed skinne was growen ouer with the hearines or scurffe of an Ethiopians flesh squalida cutis situm aethiopicae carnis obduxerat In the margent you note that we will saie Saint Hierome was noe Protestant I answere although we cannot allow Saint Hierome or any man that by hurting his bodelie health with immoderate rigour of austere life bringeth his natural life in daunger yet doe we imbrace S. Hierome as a member of the true Church of Christ whoe trusted not in any merite of such chaistisment but onelie in the mercie of God by Iesus Christ. The like we say of any examples of godlie men that are brought by Cassianus whoe is not altogether so olde as you make him Your rayling and seoffing at Peter Martyr I omitte as meete for such a Censurer but where you charge him to iest at Saint Basill and Saint Gregorie Nazianzen for hard handling of their owne bodies in cap. 16. lib. 3. Reg. your note boke deceiued you for in his comment vpon the Chapter he hath no such matter His iudgement els where may be to this effect That notwithstanding the examples of the auncient godlie fathers yet it is neither lawfull nor expedient for a man with such rigour to handle his bodie as it be not able to serue him in his calling For as chastisement of the bodie to bring it in subiection is sometime necessarie So weakening of the bodie to make it vnable to serue the spirit in such outward actions as require the vse of the bodie is neither wisedome nor godlines what examples soeuer be pretended For as it is not lawfull for a man vnder any pretense of mortifying his flesh to kill him selfe so it is not lawfull for any man to torment his bodie aboue the strength thereof wherby sicknes must needes follow and death may ensue For against all examples of godlie men that can be alledged to the contrary we will oppose the wisdome of the holy ghost in his elect vessel S. Paul whoe calleth Timothie from such austeritie wherebie his health was impaired vnto a moderate vse of gods creatures Drink no more water saith he butvse a litle wine because of thy stomach and often infirmities 1. Tim. 5. 23. According to the proportion of which rule if many of the examples before remembred were exacted they may perhapes declare a zeale in the persons but such as is not guided by knowledge of Gods will reuealed in the scriptures Where you saie If the Ministers of England would vse this cooling phisick there should be fewer Eatons and Hynches openlie punished or flie the countrie for incest rape you would insinuate that for lacke of chastisement of mens bodies so great enormites breake out and in part it may be true so you touch none but such as are guilty who when they be discouered by your owne confession are not winked at in our Church but openlie punished what discipline soeuer you vse when anie of your Iesuites are ouertaken with such offences The number God be thanked of such offenders among vs is not great how small chastisement soeuer you thinke the Ministers doe vse and therefore no cause why you should amplifie them in the plurall number as though for one Eaton or one Hynch there had beene ten of each sorte at the least Too manie we confesse of one but fewer then one there could not be except there had beene none Howbeit we praise God that so fewe haue geuen such offence in so long peace of the Church and praie God they be the last Yet are they a small matter for you to insult against vs if you looke homewarde where for two you may easilie finde two hundred and for two poore Ministers manie of your great prelates yea your Popes by confession of your owne historians haue not beene behind any examples of incontinencie and filthines But if we will not practise this remedie our selues for contristing or making sad the holie ghost within vs which you saie is our phrase yet you will vs not to impute it as schisme and heresie to them which vse it moderatlie as we maie imagine the Iesuites will being not fooles nor hauing iron bodies but sensible as ours are Hereto I answer that the remedie of incontinencie we learne out of the scriptures and haue no neede of your instruction for such matters if God geue vs grace to practise that which we learne out of his word The phrase whereat you scoffe is not ours but vsed by the holie Ghost him-selfe though in a farre other sense then you ascribe it to vs in which meaning you will sooner be hanged for a traitour then you are able to prooue that anie approoued Minister of ours hath euer vsed the same in speach or writing Among the familie of loue perhappes which are catercosins with you Papistes you may finde such blasphemous abusers of holie phrases of scripture The imputing to schisme or heresie ariseth of the Iesuites profession and practise which in such doinges pretend a greater merit and perfection then God requireth of Christians Otherwise we doubt not but many of the Iesuites can fauour them-selues wel enough in their voluntarie whipping especiallie those of our nation or of anie other except the Spaniardes among whome the reliques of the olde whipping heretikes haue continued so ranke in some that they haue beene seene in England to endure greeuous whipping for other mens sinnes that liked not to suffer such penannce in their owne persons The following of one mans rule you sate can make no diuision because it is but a particular direction of life and manners grounded one the seriptures and practise of the fathers and alowed by the superiours of the Church But here you assume more then wil be graunted for neither is the rule of Laiolas grounded one the scriptures neither haue the gouernours of the Church authoritie to allowe anie such rule and last of all it is so newe that it hath no practise of the auncient fathers to shadow it The first is prooued before the second dependeth vpon the first and the last of the newnes is manifest of it selfe But all this while you haue supposed that Master Charkes reportes of the Iesuites life and vocation were true which is false for there was neuer anie that tooke a vowe to whippe them-selues and much lesse to doe it after the example of a sect called by the name of whippers condemned long agoe Here beside a double cauill is nothing worthie the answering for Master Charke meaneth not that their vowe is to followe the condemned whippers but that this whipping is after the example of that condemned sect in that they wippe and torment
haue beene hither to frustrate and the strength of the Turke is increased by our warres The second is that vnder pretext of making warre against the Turke the Popehath vsed to rake mony to gether for their pardons And he concludeth that without repentance and the ouerthrow of the Popes tyrannie there is no hope to preuaile in warre against the Turkes because God is not on our side butiustlie incensed against vs. Quantòrectius saith he faceremus c. How much better should we do if first with our praiers yea rather by changeing the wholl course of our life we reconcile God vnto vs And then that the Emperours the princes would restraine that Idole of Roome from tyrannie deceit and destroying of souies For that I also maie once prophecie although I know I shall not be heard Except the Pope of Rome be brought vnder all Christendome is vndonne Let him flie as Christ hath taught into the mountaines he that can or with confidence let him offer his life to death vnto the Romish murtherers The Popedome can worke nothing but sinne and destruction what will you more But who shall subdue the Pope Christ by the brightnes of his comming and none other Lord who hath beleeued our preaching he that hath eares to heare let him heare and let him absteine from the Turgish warre while the name of the Pope preuaileth vnder heauen I haue said By this you maie see that Luther fauored not the empire of infidelitie but sheweth by what meanes it maie be resisted Againe he forbiddeth not defense against the Turke but inuasion of the Turke when we maie be at peace with him For that it is lawfull to fight against the Turke in our owne defense he sheweth his opinion in consut Rat. Latomianae where he derideth the follie of Latomus and the diuines of Louane which racked the decree of Pope Leo to this sense that it was needles to answer the aduersaties of religion which is as great wisedome of the schoole of Louane in proceeding against Luther as if when the Turke doth set vpon vs which is no waies lawfull for him and yet he will not be staid we should send the diuines of Louane embassadors vnto him which should saie vnto him It is not lawfull for thee to fight and if thou do we will condemne thee and so suffer him to raunge at his pleasure and yet boast that we haue gotten the victorie Nay saith he let vs laie aside praiers and all spirituall armour and cease to resist the deuill denouncing vnto him and saying It is not lauful for thee to trouble the Church of God So that Luther by these wordes declareth his iudgement that it is as lawfull for vs and as necessarie with bodelie armour to defend our selues against the Turke assailing vs as it is to fight against the deuill with spirituall armour and to confute enemies of the trueth by the word of God For a fourth example of impietie you adde when he reprehended the Pope for defining beside scripture that the soule is immortall and calleth it a monster of the dunghill of Rome what ground of impietie doth he not laie In deed if Luther should denie the immortalitie of the soule as Pope Iohn the 23. did and was therefore conuicted and condemned in the Counsell of Constance wee would accurse Luthers memorie as much as the Popes But if Luther reprehended the Pope for deliuering that vpon the creditte of his owne definition and authoritie which is manifestlie grounded vpon the authoritie of holie scriptures what a slaunderous penne haue you He was charged by the Collectors art 37. to haue saide thus Certum est in manu Ecclesiae c. It is certaine that it is not in the hand of the Church or of the Pope at all to decree articles of the faith nay nor yet lawes of manners and good workes To this article Luther answereth thus Probo hunc sic c. This article I prooue thus 1. Cor. 3. No man can lay any other foundation beside that which is alreadie laide which is Iesus Christ. Here thou hast the foundation laid by the Apostles but euerie article of faith is part of this foundation therefore none other article can be laid then is alreadie laid There may be builded vpon as the same Apostle saith And therefore the Pope ought to be laide and builded vpon the same foundation but not to lay any foundation for all things to be beleeued are fully set forth in the scriptures Yet I permit that the Pope may make articles of faith to them that beleeue in him such as these are That the bread and wine are transsubstantiated in the sacrament That the essence of god doth neither beget nor is begotton That the soul is the substantiall forme of the bodie That he him seife is the Emperour of the world King of heauen and an earthly God That the soull is immortall And all those infinite monsters in the Romish dunghill of decrees that such as his faith is such may be his Gospell such his beeleeuers such his Church and that like lippes may haue like lettice and the cup a couer meete for it But we which are Christians and not Papanes doe know that there is nothing pertaining either to faith or good manners which is not abundantlie set forth in the holie scriptures that there is neither authoritie nor place for men to decree any other thing These wordes declare that what doctrine is true and needefull to be knowne must be receiued from God by the holie scriptures not from the Popes decrees or from any mortall mans authoritie It is maruaile you doe not charge Luther with holding the pluralitie of Gods because here prehendeth the Pope for defining that the essence of god can neither beget nor be begotton as wel as with denying the immortality of the soul. both which articles are to be taken out of the holie scriptures not from the authoritie of the Popes definition For though the Pope define any thing which is true yet it must not be receiued vpon his creditte but vpon the authoritie of Gods worde And seeing the Popes decrees doe containe such a number of vntruethes the articles of faith from the Popes decrees may receiue discredit rather then authoritie But all thinges must be examined according to the worde of God writen which is the truth yea euen the scripture comming from the mouth of the deuill Againe I wish the reader to consider how truelie you saie that Luther calleth that opinion of the immortalitie of the soule a monster of the dunghill of Rome when he speaketh of the infinite monsters of falsehoode that are found in the dunghill of the Popes decrees where of he maketh no expresse mention in answere to this article The last example of impiety is when Luther affirmeth and mantaineth that neither man nor Angell on earth can laie any one lawe vpon any one Christian further then he will him-selfe What foundation say you
the workes of nature or will which are in vs but by the he lie ghoste which is geuen vnto vs which both helpeth our infirmitie and worketh with our health for that is the grace of God by Iesus Christ our Lord. to whome with the father and the holie ghoste be ascribed eternitie and goodnes for euer In this discourse of S. Augustine is declared that the commaundements of God are made possible and not heauie to be fulfilled by the grace of God nor by the strength of man either of nature or will and that by two meanes faith and loue Faith by which we craue obtaine forgiuenes of our imperfection and loue by which we cherefully endeuour to accomplish in work so much as we can which we can not do perfectly in this life in as much asno mans heart is pure in this life no mans loue is perfect in this world yet faith purifying our harts that by themselues are vnclean obtaineth as the same 's Augustine saith that which the law commaundeth But how far is this from the popish assertion to wit The law is not abooue our abtlitie to keepe it The cursse that you cite out of Augustine Serm. 191. and Ierorme explan Symb. ad Damasum is but a crack of a broken bladder in stead of a thunderbolte For both the sermon and the explanation are counterfeit stuffe being all one word forword except a litle 〈◊〉 flue in the beginning and the end and yet are most impudentlieascribed both to Augustine and Ierome But that ne ther of both is author of that sentence I wil prooue by 〈◊〉 of Saint Ierome who expresselie affirm ah that which the sermon and explanation accurseet We cursse the blasphemie of them saie the counterfeiters which saie that anie thing impossible is commaunded by God to man and that the commaundements of God cannot be kept of euerie one but of all in common Saint lerome dialog aduers. Pelag. lib. 1. saith Possibilia praecepit 〈◊〉 ego fateer Sed haec possibilia cuncta singuli habere non possumus non imbeciliitate naturae ne calumniam facias deo sed animilassitudine quae 〈◊〉 simul semper non potest habere virtutes God commaunded things possible and that I confesse But all these possible thinges euerie one of vs can not haue through weakenes of nature lest thou shouldest slaunder God but through wearines of minde which can not haue all vertues together and alwaies And his whole discourse in that dialogue is to prooue that no man can be without sinne the contrarie whereof is flat Pelagianisine He expoundeth also at large how the commaundements of God are possible and how vnpossible which maie be seene of anie man that will read his writings against the Pelagians and therfore it is very iniurious vnto him to make him a patrone of that sentence which he put posedlie and plentifullie impugneth To conclude Chrysostome and Basile meane not that a perfect obseruation of Gods law is possible in this life but that God geueth grace in some measure to keepe them to those that are borne 〈◊〉 in Christ in whome onelie is performed that which was impossible by the law as the A postle saith These fathers and diuerse other whose authority the Pelagians abused as you do to vpholde their heresie by such speeches meant to accuse the negligence and slothfulnes of men in keepeing Gods commaundements not to extoll the power and abilitie of mans free will to keepe them as Saint Augustine prooueth by manie testimonies taken out of their writinges in his treatises against the Pelagians The eleuenth section of de facing the scriptures and doctrines by tradition THe Iesuites you saie do not vse these termes of defacing that the scripture is imperfect maimed or lame and thereof I will not contend but the same in effect they holde as Master Charke saith when they affirme that all things necessarte to saluation are not contained in the scripture Your similitude of a marchant leauing his commaundements partelie in writings and partelie by word of mouth and referring the resolution of doubtes vnto his wife is not sufficient in this case For our Sauiour Christ liueth for euer whereas his seruants and the men of whome his Church which is his spouse consisteth are changed in euerie generation So that there can be no certaintie of his commaundements but onelie by his writings which if they containe not all thinges necessarie to saluation they are imperfect lame and maimed And where you saie that Saint Augustine prooueth the contrarie at large lib. 1. cont Cresc c. 32. it is vtterlie vntrue For he saith expresselie concerning the question of rebaptising them that were baptized by heretikes Sequimur sanè nos in hac re etiam Canonicarum authoritatem certissimam scripturarum We truelie doe follow in this matter also the most certaine authoritie of the Canonicall scriptures whereunto he adioineth the consent of the Catholike Church after some disceptation about the matter whose counsell agreeable to the holie scripture no man doubteth bur it is to be followed Theverie same doctrine you saie teacheth the said father lib. de side operibus cap. 9. and also ep 66. ad Don. In the former is no worde to the purpose he speaketh of the Eunuch whome Philip baptized whose confession of Christ being verie shorte some thought to be sufficient for anie man that should receaue baptisme whereas there is a more distinct knowledge and particuler explication of this faith in other places of scripture set downe that is to be required of them that are catechised and come to baptisme In the last quotation I thinke there is a faulte either in your Printer or in your notebooke which setteth downe ep 66. for ep 166. which is directed to the Donatistes whereas the other is to Maximus But in this epistle to the Donatistes there is nothing that prooueth this matter that the scriptures containe not all things necessarie to saluation Onelie he exhorteth the Donatistes to vnitie shewing that out of the same scriptures which teach Christ to be the head his bodie the Church is to be discerned and learned Touching the twelue pointes of doctrine set downe by the Censure as not conteined expresselie in the scripture and yet to be beleeued Master Charke answereth that seuen of them are in scripture the rest not necessarie to be beleeued But here you saie the question is of expresse scripture and not of any farre fet place that by interpretation may be applied to a controuersie If you meane by expresse scripture that which is expressed in so many wordes as the thing in cōtrouersy we deny that we haue anysuch question with you For we holde that any thing which by necessary demonstration can be concluded out of the scripture is as true as necessary to be beleeued as that which is expressed in plaine wordes And so we meane when we saie all thinges necessarie to saluation are conteined in the holie scriptures And as for your
examples of inuocation of Saintes praier for the dead purgatorie and the like if you can winne them either by manifest wordes or by necessarie conclusion we are content you shall weare them and we also wilyeald vnto them otherwise you prate without proofe of expressed in the scripture trifling vppon the terme expressed which either we vse not in this question or els we meane therbie certainlie declared and taught in the scriptures either in expresse wordes or by necessarie conclusion But now let vs see how Master Chark is distressed in answering these twelue particulers For the first of the seauen which he acknowledgeth to be contained in the scripscripture which is that there is two natures and two wills in Christ he citeth these wordes Rom. 1. of his sonne which was made vnto him of the seede of Dauid according to the flesh Also Math. 26. not as I will but as thou wilt here you saie that the interpretation of the Church being set aside and the bare text onelie admitted these places cannot conuict an heretike yes verelie the onelie authoritie of the textis sufficient to confit me faith and to conuince an heretike For the former point thus The diuinitie and humanitie are two natures in Christ is diuinitie and humanitie ergo two natures The maior is manifest the minor is plaine by the text the sonne of God one nature the seede of Dauid an other nature For the fecond point The will of God and the will of man the one contradictorie to the other are two willes In Christ was the will of God contradictorie to the wil of man ergo two wills The minor is prooued out of the text not as I wil but as thou wilt seeing Christ was both God man That the Monothelits in the 6. Councill of Costantinople could not be conuinced out of the scriptures it is an intollerable slaunder of that reuerend assemblie for euen by this text and manie other their error was made manisest wherunto albeit the consent of the aun cient fathers was added yet is there no word in all that 4. action which you quote to prooue that they were not sufficientlie confuted out of the holie scriptures The second point is the proceeding of the holie ghost from the father and the sonne equallie for which Master Chark quoteth Ioh. 15. 26. When the holie ghoste shall come which I will send you from my father the spirit of trueth which proceedeth from the father c. Against this you cauill that it prooueth not the proceeding equallie and cite Cyril for your witnes in 15. Ioh. who out of this place prooueth that equally as wel as the proceeding seeing the heretikes might be ashamed to say that the spirit of the father was sent by the son as by a minister which also if they should saie he disprooueth for that if the sonn were as a minister he should be of an other substance then the father and the spirit proceeding from the father being of the same substance with the father should be greater in nature then the fonne whereas the sonne saith plainlie of the holy ghoste he shal glorifie me c. An other cauil you haue that this place telleth not whether he proceeded by generation or without generation from the father But it is sufficient that neither this place nor any other place of scripture teacheth that the holie ghoste is begotten therefore we beleeue without generation The third point is the vnion of the word vnto the nature of man and not to the person of man which because you did set downe obscurelie M. Charke did not rightlie vnderstand yet the text that the quoteth 1. 〈◊〉 14. The word was made flesh includeth that assertion also seeing there was no person of the man when the vnion was made vnto the nature of man but the word in taking vpon him the nature of man did vnite him selfe to it in vniting tooke it as it is euident Luk. 1. 35. Mat. 1. 20. The fourth doctrine is the baptising of infants for which Master Charke quoteth Gen. 17. 12. the infant of eight daies shall be circumcised Against this you haue manie trifling cauills that baptisme is not expressed of the sexe of the eight daie Against which I oppose the authoritie of Saint Augustine which lib. 1. cont Crescon Grammat cap. 31. confuteth the rebaptization of such as were baptized by heretikes by example of them that were circumcised by the Samaritantes whose circumcision was not to be repeated to whome the like might be obiected But it is sufficient that wherein baptisme answereth to circumsion the reason is one in both Circumcision was the sacrament of regeneration as baptisme is the one giuen to infantes ergo the other The cerimonie of the eight day had an other reason not needefull to be obserued in baptisme The distinction of the sexe is taken awaie by Christ in whome there is neither male nor female That Beza was striken dumme with this question in the conference at Poyssie it is a slaunder of Cladius de Xanctes confuted by Beza him-selfe But you had rather followe Saint Augustine who contendeth and prooueth that baptizing of infantes is onelie a tradition of the Apostles and not left vs by anie written Scripture lib. 10. cap. 23. super Gen. ad lizeram So you write but I will set downe Saint Augustines wordes that the reader may see what contention and proofes he vseth hauing protested of his ignorance how the reasonable soule commeth into the bodie he concludeth that the baptisme of infantes fauoreth their opinion which thinke that soules are procreated of the parentes And of the baptisme of infantes thus he writeth Consuctudo tamen matris Ecclesiae in baptizandis paruulis nequaquam spernenda est neque vllo modo superflua de putanda nec omnino credenda nisi Apostolica esset traditio Habet enim illaparua aet as magnum testimonij pondus quae prima pro Christo meruit sanguinē fundere Yet the custome of our mother the Church in baptizing of infantes is not to be despised nor by any meanes to be thought superfluous nor to be credited at all if it were not an Apostolike tradition for euen that litle age hath greate weight of testimonie which first obteined to shed blood for Christ. You see that here is neither contention not profe that it is onelie a tradition not leftin writing for he alledgeth one testimonie out of Scripture of gods acceptation of that age to martirdome much rather to baptisme and manie other testimonies might be brought for the same purpose as Matt. 19. 14. 1. Cor. 7. 14. c. As for Origen he doth onelie make mention of the baptisme of infants according to the obseruance of the Church to prooue originall sinne But whether it stand onelie vpon tradition and not vpon the scripture he saith not one word The 5. Doctrine is the changeing of the Sabbath into Sondaie M. Charke quoteth Apo. 1. 10. I was in the spirit on
the Lordes daie Here you cauill that there is no mention of Saturdaie or sondaie much lesse of celebration of either and least of all of the changeing of the Sabbath into an other daie But if it please your Censurship are you ignorant what day of the weeke is called dies Dominicus the Lordsday whether saturdaie or sondaie if it be sondaie as al professors of Christes name confesse here is as much mention thereof as is needfull for the daie into which the change is made Or if that be not sufficient you maie haue further Act. 20. 7. 1. Cor. 16. 2. And whie is the first of the Sabbath called the Lordes daie but in respect of the celebration there of in honour of the redemption of the world by Christ For otherwise all daies of the weeke are the Lordes daies in respect of their creation Thirdlie seeing the Lordes daie was one daie in the weeke vsed for the assemblie of the Church for their spirituall exercises of Religion it is certaine that the change of the Iewish Sabbath was made into that daie except you would be so waywatd to saie there were two daies in euerie weeke appointed by God to be celebrated whereas the lawe of God requireth but one and giueth libertie of bodelie exercise in sixe daies So that the change of the Sabbath daie is sufficientlie prooued out of the Scripture into the Lordes daie The sixt point is about foure Gospells and the Epistle to the Romanes which Master Charke saith to be prooued out of the scripture but yet he quoteth no place of scripture where onelie he saith the inscription expresseth the names of the writers But what a mocker is this you saie Are the bare names of the Apostles sufficient to prooue that they were written by them who can prooue by scripture that these names are not counterfet as in the Epistle to the Laodiceans in the Gospells of Bartholomew and Thomas c. But abide you sir your question hath two branches the one that the 4. Go spells are true Gospells the other that the epistle to the Romanes was written by Saint Paul and not that to the Laodiceans To the former it is answered that they are prooued by other vndoubted bookes of the scripture both of the olde testament and the new secing they declare that to be fullfilled of Christ which was spoken in the lawe in the Prophetes and in the Psalmes To the other it is answered that admitting the Epistle to the Romanes to be scripture the inscription of his name is sufficient to prooue that it was written by Saint Paull And so of therest Although the name of the writer is not materiall vnto saluation when the booke is receiued to be Canonicall as diuers bookes of scripture are receiued whose writer is vnknowne That Epistle which is called to the Laodicians is not receiued and therefore the inscription is vnsufficient as the Gospelles of Bartholomew and Thomas and such like which are knowne to be countefet by the dissent they haue from the other canonicall scriptures Whereas you require one place of Scripture to prooue all the foure Gospelles to be canonicall you declare your wrangling and wayward spirit But name you anie one point of Doctrine writen in anie of those foure Gospells and the same shall be aduouched by other textes of scripture and so maie eucrie point conteined in them if neede were But you affirme that Origen saith he reiecteth the Gospell of Saint Thomas onelie for that the tradition of the Church receiued it not Which is false He saith he hath read the Gospell after Thomas after Mathias and manie other Sed in his omnibus nihil aliud probamus niss quod Ecclesia idest quatuor tantùm euangelia recipienda But in all these we allowe nothing els but that which the Church alloweth that is that onelie foure Gospells are to be receiued In these wordes he affirmeth that he approoueth the iudgment of the Church he saith not that the iudgement or traditions of the Church was the onelie cause whie he reiected those Gospells for he said before they were receiued of heretikes and wherefore but in maintenance of their heresie which is contrarie to the holie scriptures That all counterfet Go spells were reiected by the Church it is confessed but the Church had this iudgement of discretion confirmed by the canonical scriptures against which Epiphanius saith nothing But when Faustus the Manichie denied the Gospell of Saint Mathew saie you saith not S. Augustine Mathaei Euangelium probatum aduersus Faustum Manichaeum per traditionem The Gospell of Mathew was alleged against Faustus the Manichie by tradition August lib. 28. Cont. Faust. c. 2. If you aske me I saie no he hath no such wordes Yet doth he auouch the Gospell of Saint Mathew in that Chapter by testimonie of the Church from the Apostles by continuall succession euen vnto his time against the Maniches but in far other words then you haue set downe in steed of Saint Augustines wordes by which the reader maie once against perceiue how impudentlie and ignorantlie you ailedge whatsoeuer the note booke which was neuer of your own gatheriug because you vnderstood it not did minister vnto you For these are the wordes of the collector of your notes not of S. Augustine Maie not the papists haue great ioie of such a Cenfure defender Yet you triumph like a Iustie champion and aske what can be more euident then all this to prooue our opinion of the necessitie of tradition to confound the fonde madnes of this poore Minister Alas poore defender what waightie euidencethou hast brought to prooue the necessity of tradition which prooueth thee to be a blind beggerlie yet a bolde brocher of other mens notes which thou vnderstandest not thy selfe The seuenth doctrine which is required to be prooued out of the scripture is that God the father begat his sonne onelie by vnderstanding him-selfe Here Master Charke in steede of these darke wordes out of Thomas how the father begat the sonne wisheth cleare and perfect wordes in so high a mysterie which you saie are plaine and vsuall to those which haue studied any thing in diuinitie As though there were no diuinitie in the holie scriptures and so many of the auncient fathers which haue neither this question nor these wordes but that al diuinity were included in the brest of Thomas Aquinas and such doctors as he was That he quoteth a place or two of the scripture to prooue that Christ was the onelie begotten sonne of God you make smal account of seeing the question is of the māner how this generation maybe which the Church de fendeth against the aduersaries And here you insult against M. chark as ignorant in those high points of diuinitie whereas Catholiks know what the Church hath determined herein against heretikes and infidels as though either of both cared for the Churches determination if the one were not vanquished by scripture the other by right reason
whereunto scripture is consonant And here you swell as much as anie to ade in the opinion of your deepe knowledge in these matters Neuertheles we ignorant and vnlearned Protestantes thinke it more safe to be ignorant of the manner of the sonnes generation with Saint Ambrose then to determine beside the scriptures thereof with Thomas Aquinas When Saint Ambrose was pressed with the same question that you set downe of the aduersaries how can God beeing a spirit beget a sonne and yet the same not to be after his father in time or nature but equall with him in both and how doth the father beget he answereth thus De side ad Gratian. lib. 1. cap. 5. Quaeris à me quomodo sifilius sit non priorem habet patrem quaero item abste quando aut quomodo putes filium esse generatum Mihi impossibile-est generationis scire secretum Mens deficit vox silet non meatantùm sed angelorum Supra potestaâ—â— supra angelos supra Cherubin supra Seraphin supra omnem sum est quia scriptum est pax autem Christi quae est supra ennem sensum Si pax Christi supra omnem sensum est quemadmodum non est super omnem sensum tanta generatio Tu quoque manum ori admoue scrutari non licet superna mysteria Licet scire quod natus sit non licet discutere quemadmodum natus sit Illud negare mihi non licet hoc quaerere metus est Nam si Paulus ea quae audiuit raptus in tertium coelum ineffablia dicit quomodo nos exprimere possumus paternae generationis ercanum quod nec sentire potuâ—â—mus nec audire Thou askest of me how if he be a sonne he hath not his father before him I ask likewise of thee when or how thou thinkest that the sonne was begotten For to me it is impossible to knowe the secret of his generation The minde faileth the voice stayeth not of me 〈◊〉 but euen of the Angells It is aboue powers aboue 〈◊〉 aboue Cherubim aboue Seraphim aboue all vnderstanding because it is written The peace of Christ which is aboue all vnderstanding If the peace of Christ be aboue all vnderstanding how is not so excellent a generation aboue all vnderstanding Thou also holde thy hande before thy mouth it is noâ— lawfull to search these high mysteries it is lawful to know 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 begotten it is not lawful to discusse after what manner he is begotten That to denie it is not lawfull for me this to inquâ—â— of I am afearde For if Paul saith that those things which 〈◊〉 being taken vp into the third heauen were unspeakeâ—â— how can we expresse the secret of the fathers generation 〈◊〉 we could neither vnderstand nor heare c. If thâ— determination were no lesse to be beeleeued 〈◊〉 other mysteries of the trinitie that are expressed in the scripture as you affirme Saint Ambrose was short in his faith of the trinitie as euerie man may see by his answere Neuertheles whatsoeuer is obiected that the soone should not be equall in time and nature with the father whereof ensueth the pluralitie of Gods is manifestlie confuted by al those scriptutes that affirme one onelie God and Iesus Christ to be God and the onelie be gotten 〈◊〉 of the father which must needes argue the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in nature time or eternity How this may be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the scripture affirmeth that it is Christians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ought not or neede not to inquire If infidels in 〈◊〉 they are not to be answered by authoritie of 〈◊〉 scriptures which they beeleeue not much lesse 〈◊〉 the Church which they know not And then the 〈◊〉 is out of the matter in coÌ„trouersy whether 〈◊〉 things that are to be beleeued necessarie to 〈◊〉 be conteined in the holie scriptures Neuerthelesse 〈◊〉 to infidels that Philosophicall answer may be giuen how the generation of the sonne by the father 〈◊〉 be without inequality in time or nature but 〈◊〉 it is or must be onelie by vnderstanding of him selfe he thinke it for all your bragges you are not able to 〈◊〉 the determination of your Church to auow it 〈◊〉 for all is not defined by your Church that the 〈◊〉 haue wearied their heades to dispute of But if you could prooue it of necessitie to be so the scriptures that affirme Christ to be the wisedome of the father the word that was in the beginning with the father c. would giue as much light for the manner of his generation as is possible and profitable for man to know Beside this of the 〈◊〉 of the sonne you haue other questions of 〈◊〉 aduersaries what meane they you saie to holde that the 〈◊〉 ghost proceedeth from the father and that the sonne 〈◊〉 not but is begotten To this I answere That the 〈◊〉 ghost proceedeth from the father the text of 〈◊〉 is plaine Iohn 15. 26. that the sonne is begotten of the father Iohn 1. 14. That the sonne proceedeth not from the father albeit he is begotten it is heresie and blaspemie to affirme For he him selfe affirmeth Iohn 16. 28. I proceeded from the father and came into the world and Ioh. 8. 42. Another question you haue like vnto this whie is it heresie to say that the sonne proceedeth from the father or that the holie ghost is begotten I aunswere to saie the holie ghost is begotten it is heresie because the scripture teacheth that the sonne is the onelie begotten of the father But to saie that the sonne proceedeth from the father is no heresie but the contrarie is heresie because it is against the expresse words of Christ as I haue shewed before And Saint Augustine affirmeth expressely that whatsoeuer is begotten proceedeth so that you cannot denie the proceeding of the sonne from the father except you denie his begetting Neuertheleles although the sonne and the holie ghost do both proceede yet not both alike as the same Augustine sheweth de trin lib. 5. cap. 14. vbi illud elucescit vtpote quod solet multos mouere cur non sit filius etiam Spiritus Sanctus cum ipse à patre exeat sicut in Euangelio legitur Exiit enim non quo modo natus sed quo modo datus ideo non dicitur filias quia neque natus est sicut vnigenitus neque factus vtper Dei gratiam in adoptionem nasceretur sicutinos Where that also is made cleare which is wont to moue manie men why the holie ghost also is not the sonne seeing that he also proceedeth from the father as it is read in the gospell For he proceeded not as begotten but as giuen and therefore he is not called the sonne because he is neither begotten as the onely begotten nor made that by the grace of god he might be borne into adoption as we Here you see that proceeding is common to both the persons yet one manner of proceeding proper to the sonne and another to the holie ghost A
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are able to make thee wise you harpe onelie vpon the word of instructing which the vulgar interpreter vseth not sufficient to answere the greeke verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and yet if it be rightlie vnderstood as perhappes he meant it signifieth to furnish and not to teach properlie so the sense might be that the scripture is able to furnish thee with knowledge to saluation and that 〈◊〉 a sufficiencie Now to your pelting cauilles You aske if the Scriptures which can shew Timothie the waie to saluation and bring him also to it if he will follow them be sufficient for the wholl Church so that all Doctrine by tradition is superfluous I answere yea For there is but one waie to saluation for all the Church But you obiect that euerie Epistle of Saint Paull enstructeth a man to saluation yet it not sufficient for the wholl Church I answere that euerie Epistle of Saint Paull is not sufficient to instruct a man to saluation or to make him wise vnto saluation But that which Saint Paull spaketh is of the wholl scripture not of euery epistle For you might as well obiect that euery chapter and verse instructeth a man toward saluation rather then to saluation but not sufficientlie yet the wholl is able to make a man wise vnto saluation Your second obiection is that the Apostle speaketh principallie of the olde Testament and will Master Charke saie that the olde Testament is sufficient to Christian men for their saluation without anie other writt Yea I warrant you for there is no Doctrine in the new but it was taught in the olde Saint Paull affirmeth that he said nothing but that which the Prophetes and Moses had spoken of thinges to be performed The new Testament hath no other Doctrine then the olde onelie it testifieth the performance of those thinges in Christ which the olde Testament foreshewed to be performed Againe because you grate so much vpon the exclusion of other writt Saint Paull addeth by faith in Iesus Christ which containeth all that is written in the new Testament concerning the storie of performancet and seales of this faith And if the olde were sufficient how much more is the olde the new together a rich aboundant Doctrine The 〈◊〉 that you make against his translation of the wholl Scripture which you would referre to euerie Scripture is answered before the translation must be according to the circumstance of the place Euerie Scripture which is euerie seuerall booke or euerie seuerall Chapter or euerie seuerall verse is not able to make the man of God perfect and perfectlie prepared to euerie good worke but the wholl is therefore the translation must be the whole scriptures and not euerie scripture But now to your tow reasons In the first you saie that Saint Paull could not meane to Timothie of all the scriptures together which we now vse for that all was not then written To this you confesse that he answereth there was inough written then for the susficient saluation of men of that time and therest is not superfluous But this you saie is from the purpose Yea is how so I praie you you answere it was sufficient with the supplie by worde of 〈◊〉 vnwritten but that is contrarie to the purpose for Master Charke telleth you that from the time that any 〈◊〉 was written that scripture contanied sufficient 〈◊〉 to saluation without anie supply of anie other Doctrine that was not in that Scripture comprehended although preaching and other meanes were necessarie to reach men which is beside the purpose Before the scripture was written the same doctrine in substance was deliuered by reuelation that afterwarde was written The continuance thereof was not onelie by bare tradition but also in euerie age renewed by reuelation Againe the age of men was lo long that there remained alwaies faithfull and ceratine witnesses of the doctrine aliue so that it could not be corrúpted but it was easie by those witnesses to be refuted But when the age of man was drawne into the streights of 70. yeares or litle more as Moses sheweth the Doctrine of the Church was committed to writing euen as much at the first as was sufficient for the instruction of the people vnto saluation without anie supplie of traditions The 〈◊〉 of the Prophetes and Apostles writinges is a more full and plentifull declaration of thesame Doctrine of saluation not anie addition of anie new Doctrine or waie to saluation Your second reason is that 〈◊〉 partes of scripture be wanting now which were in Saint Pauls time But that you are not able to prooue For although there is mention in the olde testament of diuerse bookes written by Prophets which are not now extant yet it followeth not that those were extant in Saint Pauls time And if any were yet were they but explications and interpretations of the bookes of Moses which are extant euerie syllable and pricke and shall be to the ende of the world But Epiphanius affirmeth that all thinges cannot be taken from the scripture wherefore the Aposties 〈◊〉 somethings in writing and somethings in tradition To this I answere first that Saint Paul is greater then Epiphanius Secondlie that Epiphanius saith not that anie thing necessarie to saluation cannot be taken out of the scripture For he speaketh onelie of this opinion that it is sinne to marrie after virginitie decreed which neuertheles maie be taken out of the scripture if the vow were aduisedlie taken and no necessitie of incontinencie requiring mariage But of tradition we shall haue further to consider in the next section The thirteenth section intituled Of teaching traditions besides the scripture Art 5. GOtuisus reporteth the Iesuits to saic that the want of holie scriptures muste be supplied by peecing it out by traditions Cens. f. 220. Here you repeat your olde friuolous quarrel that the Iesuites haue no such vnreuerent words Master Chark chargeth you out of Hosius with a farre worseisaying that if traditions be reiected the verie Gospell it selfe seemeth to be reiected For what els are traditions then a certaine liuing Gospell But thereto you answere not one worde and the meaning of those words reported by Gotuisus you mainteine egerlie thorouhout this section as you did in parte in the 12. section that the scriptures are not sufficient and that there must be traditions receiued beside the scripture To what ende but to supplie the want and insufficiencie of the holie scriptures Nay saie you Though both parts of Gods worde that is both written and vnwritten be necessarie vnto Gods Church yet both of them do stand in their full perfection assigned them by God neither is the one a maime or impeachment to the other You meane they are as perfect as God made them not that the written word is sufficient to teach all trueth vnto the perfection of the man of God And so for all your vaine compasse of wordes the sense is all one The scripture is but a part or a
see no reason to refuse it But if you will learne reason when it is shewed you maie see more then you do now Are your ancetors of the primitiue Church greater then Saint Paull Is there anie testimonié of man greater then the witnes of an Angell from heauen yet if Saint Paull him selfe or an Angell from heauen should preach an other Gospell then Saint Paull had preached and is contained in the holi scriptures that false Gospell were to be resused and the author thereof to be accursed Now that Saint Paull preached nothing beside the doctrine conteined in the scriptures he is a sufficient witnes himselfe Act. 26. 22. But why see you no reason to refuse such traditions so obtruded Forsooth because the same men that deliuered vnto you the scriptures and saide this is Gods writen worde and saide of other forged scriptures this is not Gods written worde the same deliuered to you these doctrines saying this is Gods wordes vnwritten So that by this reason you haue no other foundation of your faith but the testimonie of men who as they may speake the truth in one matter so they may lie or be deceiued in an other As euen by your owne reason the Grecians the Armenians the Georgians the Moscouites and all other sectaries are bound to beleeue all that to be the word of God vnwritten which the same men affirme to be such that deliuered the canonicall scriptures to them and said it was the word of God written But in steade of this vnsure and sandie ground the children of God haue a more firme rocke to builde their faith vpon namelie the spirit of trueth sealing in their heartes the testimonie of men concerning the truth of Gods worde written In which the same spirit also testifieth of the sufficiencie of the word written vnto saluation in such sort as if we receiue the word written for truth we must needs condemne for false what word soeuer speaketh either the contrarie or addeth any thing as wanting and not set forth in the word written And this I say not as though the primitiue Church or the godlie fathers of the same haue brought in any thing vnder the name of tradition of Christ or his Apostles as necessarie to saluation although some of them in matters of rites ceremonies haue alledged tradition beside the scriptures yet in such things as are now for the most part abolished either because they were not deliuered by the Apostles as it was pretended or els because such matters are mutable and not perpetuall though they were receiued from the Apostles But let vs examine the examples that you ioyne to your reason First Saint Augustine and Origen doe teach vs that baptizing of infantes is to be practized in the Church onelie by tradition of the Apostles For which you quote August lib. 10. ad gen lit cap. 23. Origen in cap. 6. Epist. ad Rom. What Saint Augustine saieth and how the baptisme of infantes is practized by authoritie of the scripture I haue shewed before sect 11. As for Origen in the place quoted hath neuer a word to any such matter But of these impudent allegations we haue had too many examples alreadie The second example is Saint Hierome and Epiphanius tell vs that the faste of the lent and oher the like is a tradition of the Apostles Hierom. Epist. 54. ad Marcella Epiphann Haer. 7. 5. Hieromes wordes are these against the Montanistes Nos vnam quadragesimam secundùm traditionem Apostolorum toto anno tempore nobis congruo ieiunamus 〈◊〉 tres in anno faciunt quadragesimas quasi tres passi sunt saluatores non quòd per totum annum excepta pentecoste ieiunare non liceat sed quòd aliud sit necessitate aliud voluntate munus offerre We fast one lent or fourtie daies according to the tradition of the Apostles in the wholl yeare in a time conuenient for vs they make three lentes or fourtie daies fast in a yeare as though three sauiours had sussered not but that it is lawfull all the yeare long except in the pentecostor fiftie daies but that it is one thing to offer a gift of necessitie an other thing to doe it of free will Here Hierome saith that one fourtie daies fast is of the tradition of the Apostles but other writers say otherwise For Damasus in his Pontificall saieth that Telesphorus Bishope of Roome did institute this seauen weekes faste before Easter Telesphorus him-selfe in his decretall Epistle saith that he and his fellow Bishoppes gathered in a Councell at Roome did ordeine this fourtie daies faste onelie for clerkes and contendeth in manie wordes that there must be a difference betweene clerkes and laie men as well in faste as in other thinges If you saie these authorities are counterfet 〈◊〉 as I thin 〈◊〉 you may truelie though you will not willinglie yet what saie you to 〈◊〉 an elder witnes then Hierome whoe testifieth out of yeares that two hundered 〈◊〉 before his time there was great controuersie betweene the next successours of the Apostles concerning the daie of the celebration of Easter and that the coutrouersie was not onelie of the daie but also of the fast some fasting one daie some two dates some more So that of the Apostles tradition we haue no certaintie in any monument of antiquitie Againe it is to be noted that Hierome holdeth it vnlawfull to faste betweene Easter and Whitesontyde which he calleth Peatecoste by the same tradition of the Apostles which yet in the Popish Church is not obserued at this daie for beside the fridaie fast they haue also the gang weeke fast in that time which in Saint Hieromes age was accounted vnlawfull to fast in Your other witnes Epiphanius speaketh not of your fourtie daies lent but of a shorter and yet a streighter For these are his wordes Aquo verò non assensum est in omnibus orbis terrarum regionibus quòd quarta prosabbato ieiunium est in Ecclesia ordinatum Siverò etiam oportet constitutionem Apostolorum proferre quomodo illic decreuerunt quarta prosabbato ieiunium per omnia excepta pentecoste de sex dieb paschatis quomodo praecipiunt nihil omnino accipere quà m panem salem aquam qualemque diem agere quomodo dimittere in illucescentem dominicam manifestum est And of whome is it not agreed in all regions of the world that one wednesdaie and fridaie fast is ordeined in the Church But if we must also bring forth the constitution of the Apostles how they haue there decreed one the wednesdaie and fridaie a fast thoroughout all except pentecost and of the six daies of Easter how they commaund to take nothing at all but bread and salte and water and how to spend the daie and how to giue ouer against the dawning of the Lords daie it is manifest Here he speaketh but ofsixe daies before Easter daie and of an other manner of diet then the Popish Church holdeth to be necessarie
Secondlie he speaketh of the fourth daies or Wednesdaies fast to be appointed by the tradition of the Apostles which yet neuerthelesse the Romish Church doth not obserue Thirdlie that the Pente cosse or fiftie daies by the tradition of Apostles are exempted from the Fridaie fast which tradition is not kept in the Popes Church except you will saie that Pentecost is taken for whitson weeke and then the custome of the PopishChurch is directlie contrarie to the tradition of the Apostles for Wednesdaie and Fridaie that weeke are 〈◊〉 daies And as for the Wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie Epiphanius is so earnest that he addeth further Deinde verò st non de eodem argumento quartarum Prosabbatorum ijdem Apostoli in constitutione dixissent etiamaliter vndique demonstrare possemus Attamen de hoc exactè scribunt Assumpsit autem ecclesta in toto mundo assensus factus est c. And moreouer if the same Apostles in their constitutions had not spoken of the same argument of wednesdaies Fridaies we could otherwise throughly make proofe of it But they write exactly ofit and the Church hath taken it vp assent hath bin geuen in al the world You see he alledgeth not onely a decree of the Apostles but also the consent of all the world for the wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie fast So that if the Apostles tradition beside the scripture be necessarie for lent whie is it not also for wednesdaies fast And if wednesdaies faste is not necessarie no more is lent fast Further you affirme that Dionystus and Tertullian saie that praiers and oblations for the dead are traditions of the Apostles De Eccles. hier c. 7. de corona milit but Dionystus al beit we do not acknowledge him for a man of such antiquitie as the papists would obtrude him yet hath not any mention of traditions of the Apostles in that Chap ter touching praier for the dead but either of tradition in scripture orels at large endeuoring to prooue that he saith by scripture Tertullian in the place quoted speaketh onelie of oblations for the dead in that yearelie day which maie signifie thanksgiuing as pro nataliliis for their birth doth in in the verie same clause Not denying yet but Tertullian when he forsooke the Church and became a Montanist yealed to praier for the dead as a thing reuealed by the spirit aud new prophecie of Montanus Last of all you saie Saint Basill teacheth that the consecration of the fant before baptisme the exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized their anointing with holie chrisme and diuerse like thinges are deliuered to vs by prescript of Christ and his Apostles lib. de spi. 5. cap. 27. Of consecration or blessing of the water to the holie vse of baptisme of those that are to be baptized there neede no tradition to be alledged the scripture is sufficient in the institution of baptisme whereby both the water and the perfon are dedicated to God aud his holie worke of regeneration The anointing with chrisme seemeth at the first to haue beene the signe of the giftes of the holie Ghost which were wont to be graunted with baptisme which though it had beene vfed by the Apostles in baptisme yet that particular grace being ceased which to signifie it was vsed it hath no longer anie profitable vse in the Church As for exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized Is is your owne addition for Saint Basill hath it not But where you saie he hath diuers like thinges as deliuered by traditian it is verie true and among them this sor example that it is necessarie for the children of the Church to praie standing on the Lords daie But this necessitie euen in the popish Church is notacknowledged therefore whatsoeuer he saieth is a tradition of the Apostles is necessarieto be kept of all Christians although all the Church in his time beleeued it as that which Epiphanius reporteth of the wednesdaies fast before spoken of You demaund vpon what ground you shall discredit or reiect these traditions deliuered by such fathers cheife Doctors and pillers of the Church Euen by the same ground that you giue ouer other traditions deliuered by the same persones either because they are not true traditions or els because they are not necessarie for the Church albelt they were deliuered as no doubt some ceremoniall matters were euen by the Apostles them selues Your other reasons are friuolous That they were neerer the Apostles then we For the neerest and moste immediat successours to the Apostles Policarpus and Anicetus could not agree vpon the tradition of the Apostles one of them building vpon Iohn the other vpon Peter as is testified by Eusebius out of Irenaeus in the place before cited An other reason is that they were honest men and would not deceiue vs willinglie And so much we acknowledge yet might they be deceiued in ascribing the common practise of their time to Apostolike tradition and so deceiue vs vnwittinglie nor be controlled because the custome generall acceptation of that ceremonie restreined men Which things considered it is a great iniquitie as Master Charke saieth to adde traditions to the written word of God as if of it selfe it were not sufficient to instruct the Church in all thinges necessarie to saluation That which followeth of Doctor Fulkes handling the olde Fathers about traditions is answered by himselfe in his confutation of popish quarrells from pag. 55. to pag 61. After this you cite foure seuer all Doctors in defence of traditions vnwritten whereunto as some of auncient writers were too much inclined so haue you not so sure ground out of them for your popish traditions as you purpose And to beginne with Basill who by Apostolike traditiō defendeth the custome of the Church which was to sing Glorie be to the Father and to the sonne with the holie Ghost whereas the heretikes would haue it in the holie Ghost and cauilled that the other forme was not in the scriptures Saint Basil mainteineth it as agreeable to the scriptures by authoritie of auncient tradition although it were not expressed in so manie wordes in the scriptures as manie other thinges are which haue like force vnto pietie with those that are dilinered in expresse wordes as for example he alledgeth the confession of the faith in the 〈◊〉 which no man doubteth to be sufficientlie tanght in the scriptures although the verie wordes of our creed are not expressed in such for me As we rehearse our creede I omit 〈◊〉 things saieth he the verie confession of faith in which we beleeue in the father the sonne the holie Ghost in what scripture haue we it Againe And if they doe reiect the manner of glorifying of god as not written let them bring forth demonstration in writing of the confession of faith of other things that we rehearse By which it is manifest that the traditions he speaketh of are of two sortes the one
the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that 〈◊〉 not in such as are retained For in their 〈◊〉 they were all generallie receiued as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well such as are discontinued as those 〈◊〉 remaine 〈◊〉 if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall 〈◊〉 in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies 〈◊〉 auncient fathers for a great number But you referr 〈◊〉 Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian 〈◊〉 milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos 〈◊〉 say he shall finde store Belike your note booke 〈◊〉 you thither although you listed not to take so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe but turne it ouer to your 〈◊〉 Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon 〈◊〉 Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he 〈◊〉 some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be 〈◊〉 You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is
the next matter that you saie he prnoueth by tradition it is a question not so needefull to be decided although it may be prooued out of scripture that some of them which were Iohns disciples were baptized by him and so it is like were all the rest seeing Ierusalem and all Iurie and all the coast neere vnto Iordan were baptized by Iohn euen to the Pharisees and Saduces Publicans and souldiers it is not probable that the Apostles whoe before their calling by Christ were of honest and deuout conuersation did neglect that diuine institution which all men that would seeme to be religious made hast to receiue Furthermore you saie he prooueth by tradition the ceremonies of baptisme as deliuered by the Apostles lib. de fide Oper. cap. 9. The question is whether the Eunuch whome Philip baptized made such profession of his faith c. renouncing of the deuill as is required of them that are baptized when the scripture maketh mention onelie of a short confession that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God Where Saint Augustine sheweth that the holie ghost would haue vs to vnderstand that althinges were fulfilled in his baptisme which though they be not expressed in that scripture for breuities sake yet by order of the tradition we know that they are to be fulfilled Where tradition is not taken for that which is altogether beside the scripture but that which according to the scripture deliuereth what is to be obserued concerning the celebration of that sacrament which is the seale of mortification and regeneration That the Lordes supper should be receiued before other meates he thinketh of it as of other ceremontall matters that it came either from Apostolike tradition or from decrees of generall councell yet is it a thing not necessarie alwaies to be obserued for your selues doe housell sicke folkes at all times of the daie or night without respect whether they haue tasted any thing or no otherwise as a matter of order and decencie it is obserued of vs also to minister that sacrament before dinner and to them that be fasting if the case of necessity require not the contrarie Yet againe you saie he prooueth by tradition the exorcisme of such as should be baptized l. de nupt concu cap. 20. l. 6. cont Iulian. c. 2. But the truth is that by the ceremonie of exorcisme exsufflation and renunciation that is vsed in baptisme he goeth about to prooue that infantes before baptisme be in originall sinne and in the power of the deuill as is euident by both the places which prooue not exorcisme to haue beene receiued by tradition but by the end of that ceremonie vpon what beginning soeuer vsed in the Church at that time that infants are borne in originall sinne and subject to the power of Sathan before they be baptized The wordes of the former place are these In veritate itaque non in falsitate c. In truth therefore not in falsehoode the deuils power is exorcised in infants and they renounce him by the heartes and mouthes of their bearers because they cannot by their owne that beeing deliuered from the power of darke nes they may be translated into the kingdome of their Lorde Here is neuer a word of traditiō The second place hath these words Sedetsi nullaratione indagetur nullo sermone explicetur verum est tamen quòd antiquitas c. But although it originall sinne may be sought out by noe reason by no speach it may be expressed yet is it true that by true Catholike faith from auncient time is preached and beleeued thoroughout the wholl Church which would neither exorcise nor exsufflate the children of the faithfull if shee did not deliuer them from the power of darkenes and from the prince of death Here the auncient doctrine of original sinne is confirmed by the olde ceremonies of exorcisme and exsufflation which were vsed in baptisme to signifie that infants were by that sacrament deliuered from the guilt of originall sinne by which they were vnder the power of darkenes and death But that these ceremonies were Apostolike traditions he saith not or that they are of necessitie to 〈◊〉 vsed in baptisme when the one of them namelie 〈◊〉 is not vsed at this day for ought I know in the Popish forme of baptisme The Moscouites in place of it as it seemeth vse excreation For when the Godfathers and Godmothers answere that they renounce the deuil they spit out one the earth as it were in signe of detestation In Saint Augustines time they vsed to blow out In the last place you saie he prooueth by the same tradition that we must offer vp the sacrifice of the masse for the dead lib. de cura pro mort agenda cap. 1. 4. serm 32. de verbis Apostoli Of the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Augustine speaketh nothing but that praiers were offered for the dead at the celebration of the Lordes supper which he calleth sacrifice he saith it was by authoritie of the whol Church which was notable in that custome and that the wholl Church obserued it as deliuered from their fathers But seeing the elder Church for more then an hundred yeares after Christ had no such custome nor doctrine and especiallie seeing the same custome is against faith taught in the holie scriptures that the dead in the Lord are blessed that iudgement followeth immediatelie after death c. The authoritie of faith and trueth is to be preferred before the tradition and custome of men Neither is it to be thought to haue proceeded from the Apostles which is disprooued by the writings of the Apostles the onelie certaine witnes of the doctrine deliuered by them which is necessarie for vs to beeleeue and follow And therefore this new sir Censurer doth greatlie abuse the olde saints whome he would haue patrones of his vnwritten verities partely in charging them to referre vnto tradition many things that they doe not partlie in drawing to doctrine necessarie that which they speake of ceremonies mutable not the least in picking out one or two ouersightes to be pardoned vnder colour of them to maintaine all the grosse heresies of Poperie that are intollerable The fourteenth section Whether the Iesuites speake euil of scripture Art 6. intituled Nose of waxe IF you had ser downe Master Charkes replie betweene your Censure and your defense as reason would you should haue done for men to iudge indifferentlie betweene both you might haue spared more then two pages which you haue spent in charging him with a slaunder of the Iesuites where he reporteth that they saie the scripture is a nose of waxe when they saie it is as a nose of waxe For no reasonable man can make any other sense of those wordes the scripture is a nose of waxe but euen the same that you confesse to be the saying of the Iesuites the scripture is as a nose of waxe as Master Charke telleth you And moreouer that Paiua saith the fathers
of Colene in a moste apt similitude called the scripture a nose of waxe and Pighius the leaden rule of the Lesbian building But now concerning the matter it selfe You would shift it of by saying The Iesuites doe compare the hereticall wresting and detorting of scripture vnso the bowing of a nose of waxe vpon certaine circumstances which are these First not in respect of the scripture it selfe but in respect of heretikes and other that abuse it and that before the rude people that cannot iudge thirdlie to the ende to flatter Princes or the people in their vices Thus much was said before in the Censure But it was replied that Andradius confesseth the fathers of Colene doe saie that the holie scripture is as a nose of wax So doth Pighius and it is a thing more commonlie knowen then that it can be denied Therefore the wresting of the scripture is not compared by them to the bowing of a waxen nose but the scripture it selfe to a nose of wax as that which is as easie to be drawne into any sense as a nose of wax may be turned euerie waie The wordes of Pighius are plaine Sunt enim scripturae velut caereus quidam nasus qui sicut hor sum illor sumque facilè se trahi permittit quo traxeris haud inuitus sequitur ita illae se flecti duci atque etiam in diuer sam sententiam trahi accomodarique ad quid-uis patiuntur nist quis veram illam inflexibilemque earundem amussim nempe Ecclesiasticae traditionis authoritatem communemque sententiam ilsdem adhibeat For the holie scriptures are as it were a certaine nose of wax which as it easelie suffereth it selfe to be drawne this waie and that waie and whether soeuer you draw it is followeth not vnwillinglie so also they doe suffer them selues to be bowed to be led and also to be drawen into a contrarie meaning and to be applied vnto what you will except a man lay vnto them that true inflexible rule of them namelie the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Churches tradition These wordes declare if the sense of all Papists be the same that the Iesuites do not onelie compare the scripture it selfe but also that they make this comparison in respect of the scripture it selfe which suffereth it selfe as easelie to be wrested and abused as a nose of wax abideth to be bowed nor before the rude and ignorant onelie nor to flatter Princes and people in their vices alone but before any persons or to any purpose whatsoeuer and that there is not in them a certaine and infallible sense to iudge of the Churches doctrine or to finde out the true Church from all false congregations by the trueth taught in the scriptures but that the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Popish Churches tradition is the onelie true sense inflexible rule of the holy scriptures wherebie also it is manifest though you denie it neuer so stoutlie that you doe impute the wresting of the scriptures vnto the imperfection of Gods worde set forth in them and not onelie to the malice of the wrester For if the will of God be but as well expressed in them as the will of princes is in their written lawes and proclamations the one maie as well be found out by reading and weighing of the holie scriptures as the other may be out of prophane writings especially where the spirit of God graunted vnto the praiers of the elect openeth their vnderstanding not onelie to conceiue as the naturall man maie by studie and ordinarie helpes the true scope and purpose of God vttered in them but also to beleeue and embrace whatsoeuer the Lord their God hath propounded in them Therefore though the scripture may be wrested to the destruction of the vngodlie as Saint Peter sheweth yet Master Charke telleth you that it cannot so be wrested but that still it remaineth the light vnto our feet and the lanterne vnto our steppes and euerie parte thereof is like the arme of a great Oke which cannot be so wreste but that with great force it will returne into the right position to the shame and perill of the wrester which answere of his you doe so dissemble as though you had neuer seene it And you doe wiselie seeing otherwise then by silence you could not auoid it But howsoeuer Master Charke storme you will defend your blasphemie of the nose of waxe not onelie in a kingdome where the Ghospell is preached but also in the kingdome of vs ministers where the letter of the scripture is worsse wrested by vs to all errors and licentiousnes then euerie waxen nose was yet bended to diuerse fashions O ye senseles papists had you neuer a man of moderat iudgement to set forth against vs but this loosetongued Gentelman which so he maie raile with full mouth against vs hath no care how his slaunders maie be coloured Doe we peruert the scriptures to all errors then surelie we holde no trueth there neuer was anie heresie neither can there be anie heresie but that with manie errors it maintaineth and holdeth manie truethes Yea the Deuill him-selfe the father oflies beleeueth some truethes and for shame dare not professe the maintenance of all errors We thinke verie hardlie of Antichrist and his brood the papists yet we maie not saie that they wrest the scriptures to all errors and licentiousnes for if they so did they should not deceaue so manie by shew of trueth in errors except they did professe some articles of trueth in deede As for the wresting of the Scripture to all licentiousnes let God and all the world of reasonable and indifferent men iudge how iustlie we maie be charged therewith If we be licentious in our liues God will finde it out and let man where he findeth it punish vs. But if we wilfully peruert the scriptures to the maintenance of all licentiousnes the Lord reward vs according to our deedes and be not mercifull to them that sinne of malicious wickednes But it is no fault in the scriptures saie you that they may be abused For Christ him-selfe was called the rocke of offence and the stone of scandall not for anie faulte or imperfection in him but through the wickednes of such as abuse that benefit So if the Iesuites had said no more but that the scripture maie be abused no man could haue found fault with them And Christ is called a stone of offence or stumbling not altogether in respect of the wicked that abuse him for he is called a stone moste precious and necessarie to build vpon of stumbling to those that refuse to build vpon him which meeting with him must either stumble and fall or els if it fall vpon them they must be ground to pouder But the the scripture is compared to a nose os wax because it is in their imagination that vse the comparison as pliant to follow euerie waie and to yeald as probable a sence one waie as an other as
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke
in one person both God and man be perfectlie vnited in him and therefore much more prerogatiue might be and doubtles was giuen to his humanitie as to him that was both God and man in respect of his baser nature then to anie other of his brethren beeing but meere men yet this is assuredlie to be beleeued that he which could without derogation to his Godheade communicate with the sonne of man and graunt him in consideration of his assumpted nature the rule and redemption of his people the assoyling of our sinnes and to worke all wonders in the power finger and force of the holie ghost the same God without all doubt through his sonne and our sauiour may at his pleasure without all vnseemelines or derogation to his eternall honour andso it shall be prooued that he doth giue power to the gouernours of his Church and houshodle to pardone and giue penaunce to iudge and rule the people in the right of our said Sauiour to the edefying of his bodie and making perfect of his saints FVLKE We doe Christianly confesse according to the scripture and with the Church of Christ that our sauiour Christ not onelie by power equall to his father concerning his diuine nature but also by graunt of God his father in his humane nature which is farre inferiour to his father doth remit sinnes absolutelie and of soueraigne authoritie in respect of his diuinitie as the mediatour God and man and that he did the same vpon earth also as a minister and preacher of repentance and reconciliation according to his humanitie But hereupon it followeth not by any order or necessitie of consequence that whoesoeuer denyeth meere man to haue authoritie or power to forgiue sinnes is iniurious to Christs person and the dispensation of his flesh or mysterie of his holie incarnation For although that man haue this authoritie which is God yet it followeth not that such mē as are onely men are capable of the same authoritie The diuersitie betwixt the state of our sauiour Christ and others is so great that nothing can be communicated to others which is proper to him in respect of his diuine nature And such a thing is the absolute power to forgiue sinnes for which he hath made satisfaction to the iustice of God which whensoeuer we speake of the remission of sins may not be forgotten For the mercie of god forgiueth no sinne but that for which his iustice is thorouglie satisfied in the obedience and iustice of our Lord and redeemer Iesus Christ. Therefore as no other man hath the dispensation of his satisfaction but himselfe so no other man can giue absolute forgiuenes of sins but him-selfe But as all his ministers haue power to pronounce forgiuenes of sins to the penitent which is noe more but to expresse his will and pleasure concerning the remission of sinnes and in what sort and condition he bestoweth the same so haue they power to teteine sinnes not of them whome he will pardon but of such as doe not repent and therefore by his worde are denied of forgiuenes so that man in this case followeth the iudgement and authoritie of God not God the iudgement and authoritie of man For if a trew priest elder or minister of the gospell lawfullie authorized would forgiue the sins of an hypocrite that faigneth repentance they are not forgiuen before God and if man would reteine the sinnes of a true penitent yet are they forgiuen before God For to man is giuen no absolute power to forgiue sins any more then there is giuen to man an vndouted iudgement to discerne betweene hypocrites and true faithfull persons But where you saie that God could without derogation to his godheade communicat with the sonne of man and graunt him in consideration of his assumpted nature the rule redemption of his people the gouernment of our soules the assoyling of our sinnes c. I must know how farre you extend your consideration For if you meane therebie that God in respect of or according to this assumpted humane nature did communicate to our sauiout Christ none other but such power as he might without derogation to his deitie haue communicated vnto Moses Samuel or any other which was a meere mortall man for the redemption of our soules and forgiuenes of our sins I doe vtterlie abhorre your Nestorian and worsse then Nestorian blasphemie but if you meane that such pow er as might without the derogation of his godhead be communicated to the sonne of man is by him deliuered to the ministers of his Church which execute the office of shepheardes and teachers in his place I doe gladlie confesse that without all vnseemelinesse and derogation to his eternal honour the ministers of the Church haue power by his graunt to reteine and forgiue sinnes that is to declare the iudgement of God in forgiuing or reteining of sinnes according to such conditions as he hath expressed in his holie worde which iudgement according to those conditions is so ratifyed by God him-selfe that it is as certaine as if it were pronounced and vttered by his owne voice out of heauen But where you speake of pardoning and geuing of penance I must once againe distinguish of your meaning For if you meane by your Popish terme of penance repentance so that you saie man hath power to giue repentance which is a conuersion of the heart vnto God and a chaunge of the minde from sinne to obedience of God I spit at your blaspemous saying For it is proper onelie to God to giue repentance to Israell and to all true Israelites of the gentiles his elected children as the holie ghost teacheth Acts. 5. and 11. in which places your pupills the Rhemists durst not for gal of conscience and shame of the world translate the latine worde paenitentia as they doe commonly els where except it be taken in the euil part penance but repentance Yet if by the word penance you meane a time or exercise of trial of true repentance which the aunciēt writers do sometimes metonimically cal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and paenitentia which was graunted by the elders of the Church to such as had greeuouslie fallen that they might haue some experience of their true conuersion before they were admitted into the communion of the faithful I may yeald to your terme And further I will not denie but that God hath geuen power vnto the gouernours of his Church and household to pardon such penance thatis to remit vpon due and good consideration some part or the wholl of that time and exercise which to such penitents by them is enioyned but that any mortall creature hath power to pardon penance in such sorte that the partie which is to receiue the pardon neede not to be penitent for his sinnes I stand still to the flat deniall Neither must we here make any great account of such as shal obiect to the priests of gods Church as the Scribes did vnto Christ him-selfe when they saw him
shall accept him for their Father and mercisull redemer ALLEN There were some of olde that droue the mysteries of Christs incarnation and speaches that prooue his equalitie with his Father in Godhead to figuratiue phrases and sought for the defence of their folie the like phrases in other of Christes talkes but neuer none were comparable in this kinde to our new deuisers For by the face and crake of gods word they haue brought to passe amongst fooles that no one text of scripture which pertaineth to anie of the Sacramentes can haue his meaning and such sense as the the verie word beareth and the world hath euer taken and confirued of it The blessed and moste soueraigne sacrament of the altar instituted in a solemne action in moste carefull manner amongst his moste secret seruants the last almoste of all his workes in earth in moste euident tearmes with sore charge giuen to the Apostles of the continuance of his euerlasting memorie in the same yet must meane nothing lesse then that which our Master made it and must by a thousand figures be wrasted and writhen to what you list like so that is be not to importe that which our Master said it did and the Church hath euer beleeued of the same Wordes of the like solemnitie were vsed for the ordering of the holie vse of Baptisme to be done as the worde doth also import necessarilie in the externall element of water with certaine most holie prescribed wordes vnder paine and perill of euerlasting perishing to the neglecters thereof yet in such plainnes figures are found out by these pernicious conueiers that neither water is counted so much necessary nor the wordes of such strength but that one of these malapert fellowes was bolde to write that it was much superstition to binde the Church to the same as to the prescribed wordes of art Magike sorcerie and witchcrafie Of the honourable act and sacrament of extream vnction what can be said with more euidence of wordes then is spoken of the holie Apostle Saint Iames If any man be sicke amongst you let him cal for the Priests of the Church and let them annoynt him with oile and yet so litle matter these men make of the Apostles spirit word and writing that they haue condemned the whole vse thereof as superstitious not helping them-selues by figures but by openforce Grace is giuen to Timothie as in a sacrament when he toke orders of Paull the Apostle saith so much in expresse tearmes yet this grace and the whole sacrament of orders these holie men reiect Matrimonie to S. Paule is a great sacrament and of our ministers not misliked so faire as concerneth their fleshlie coniunction which they onelie lust after but grace they list not receiue thereby lest it should be a sacrament whereby the vnitie of Christ and his spouse the Church which in no sauce they can abide might be fullie represented and signified FVLKE It is one thing ro drawe violentlie al things expressed in the scriptures vnto alligories other figuratiue speaches an other thing not to acknowledge any figures which yet be so vsuall in the institution of sacramēts The face crake of gods word with the sequele thereof that you speake of so long as it resteth vpon your owne cracked credit shal be litle regarded by any wise man But to examine the examples you bring to iustifie your saying first you begin with the Lords supper where you saie it was instituted in most euident tearmes Wherebie you meane termes properlie vsed and without figure as though you had forgotten the wordes of our sauiour Christ perteining to the institution of the cuppe This cup is the new testament in my blood Luk. 22. 1. Cor. 11. Where I maruell whether you haue the face to saie the wordes are not figuratiue which he vsed or whether you will saie the Euangelist and Apostle did expresse the words of Christ in more obscure tearmes then he spake them or whether there be not the same sense of these figuratiue wordes This cup is the new testament in my blood and those other reported by the other Euangelists This is my blood In saying we wold haue the words of our Sauiour Christ meane nothing lesse then the sacrament that he made it you slaunder vs without measure or cause For we would haue the words of our Sauiour meane nothing more nor lesse but euen altogether as much as our sauiour Christ did meane to teach vs by them And the hyperbolic all lie of a thousand figures by which we should wrest them may in respect of greater number of figures you make in your grosse and carnall exposition be iustified of you rather then of vs whose interpretation maketh but one figure and one meaning and that warranted by the wordes of diuerse of the most auncient and Catholike Doctors In the sacrament of baptisme who make the external element of water more necessary to be vsed they that re quire water for the vse thereof or els require that the external elemét be forborne rather then that it should be chaunged into wine milke broth or any othre more vile licour of which kinde of questions other mostrous cases your treatises of the sacraméts are ful What Brentius hath written I haue not to do to answer yet it seemeth that the words of Brentius are wrested of you to another meaning rather then that he would haue them either altered or the sense of them not reteined Wherein for any thing that I can see he varieth not from the iudgement of your Master of the sentences al sententionaries which allow baptisme ministred in the name of Christ to be as good as in the name of the blessed trinitie lib. 4. distinct 3. Of extreame vnction we finde nothing in Saint Iames but of a ceremonie of annointing with oyle ioyned with the gift of healing vsed in the primitiue Church but not to be drawne into example of them that confesse they are void of that mirarulous gift The vse of which ceremonie without the gift whereunto it was annexed without any force or figure we may be bolde to condemne as superstitious The grace that was giuen to Timothie and the order of the Ecclesiasticall ministerie distinct from the common people we acknowledge and reteine But that any gift of prophesie or of any other grace is dispensed by imposition of the handes of the presbyterie in these daies as it was in the Apostles time we cannot acknowledge before we see it for he that was voide of all spirituall giftes before his taking of orders remaineth as verie an asse among you as he was before Seeing matrimonie was instituted in paradise before the fall of man we cannot accoumpt it a sacrament of the new testament by which we are assured of grace in the forgiuenes of sinnes and yet we doe howsoeuer it pleaseth you to raile vpon our ministers acknowledge that great and excellent mysterie of the spirituall vnitie
of Christ and his spouse the Church which you saie in no sauce we can abide as though wheresoeuer any mysterie is confessed to be there muste needes follow a Sacrament of the new testament ALLEN These fellowes therefore that dare be so bolde to disturbe all the orders and sacramentes of Gods Church and to mainteine their phantasies dare brust the sacred bandes of expresse scriptures in such pointes as doe directlie touch the wholl policie of our Christian common wealth and ordered waics of our saluation euen in those which Christ moste carefullie left to be practized for the vse of his louing slocke by the warrant of wordes moste plaine what shall we saie to such bold and impudent faces that thus dare doe and yet which I more mernaile at in this their vncurtesie and most vnhonest dealing will not sticke to crie and call vpon Gods worde as though they did that by scripture the contrarie whereof they expresslie finde in scripture And truelie where they be not holpen by the verte wordes vaine it shall be for them to stand with vs and with all our Fathers and with the practize of all nations and with the very expresse iudgement of the Church of God it shal not boote them I saie in their darke ignorance infinite pride to stand with vs hauing so many helpes for the true meaning and the expresse text of the worde for our selues and side FVLKE He must needes haue an impudent face and a wicked conscience that so shamefullie slaundereth vs to bereake the sacred bandes of the expresse scriptures wherunto we seeme to attribute al credit as though we denie any one word of expresse scripture do not affirme whatsoeuer the scripture doth affirme in expresse words or denie whatsoeuer the holy scripture in expresse words doth deny according to such sense and meaning as the scripture must haue as it is agreable to it selfe in all places The expresse wordes of scripture touching the Lords supper are these that it is the body blood of Christ we confesse and beleeue as much The expresse wordes of scripture concerning the Apostles authoritie in pardoning or reteining sinnes are as they haue beene often alledged we beleeue they and their successours of whome there is no expresse word haue power to remit or reteine sins The expresse words of scripture concerning the Lords supper are also The rocke was Christ we beleeue that the rocke was Christ. The cup is the new testament we beleeue that the cup is the new testament Also by expresse words to the Apostles there is graunted power to binde and to loose We confesse and beleeue that they haue power to binde and to loose And yet I trust we may be bolde to saie without breaking the sacred bondes of expresse scriptures The rocke was not Christ in nature of his humanitie and diuinitie but a sacrament of Christ. The cup is not the new couenant it selfe but that which is in the cup is an holie signe or seale thereof The Apostles had no power giuen them to binde men with chaines or coardes nor to loose the chaines coards of them that be bound by other but a spirituall authoritie to binde and loose spirituallie In like manner we doe not breake the sacred bandes of expresse scripture when we affirme that the Sacramentall bread and wine are not by transsbustantiation turned into the naturall bodie and bloode of Christ or the bodie and blood of Christ in the sacrament are not corporallie receiued but spirituallie For the contrarie of these we finde not expresselie in the scripture So when we saie the Apostles had not power to remit sinnes properlie which is peculiar onelie to God but to aslure men in Christes name whose embassadours they were of the forgiuenes of their sinnes by Christ we breake no bandes of expresse scriptures For we confesle the wordes according to their true meaning agreeable with other places of scripture that teach it to be peculiar to God to remit sinnes properlie An embassadour is said to make peace or warre when he declareth according to his commission his Princes determination of peace or warre The Kinges Liuetenant hauing such commission offereth or graun teth pardon to rebells or other offenders where he doth onelie declare the kinges pleasure in pardoning or releasing their offences As for the Popish bragge of all our fathers with the practize of all nations and the verie expresse iudgement of the Church of God to be for your assertion how vaine it is will easilie appeare when you come to cite fathers shew forth the practize of all nations declare the iudgement of Gods Church and when the contradictorie shall be manifestlie prooued and brough forth against you ALLEN Sometimes where it may appeare that the wordes and outwarde face of scripture serue not our assertions so plainlie as the holie traditions of Christes Church doe there they call vpon vs with infinite clamours to abide the iudgement of the word which they would be thought to esteeme aboue all mans meaning But whether would they now runne thinke you where all our sacraments stand vpon euident words more then words vpon the verie expresse notorious action of Christ him selfe al instituted sincerelie to be practized of the Church after his de parture hence all commended in knowne termes of greatest moste efficacie that could be not by way of preaching in which he vsed sometimes figures not at such time as he vsed other then common knowne speach but after his resurrection when he now vttered no more parables as he did before that such as faw should not see and such as were of vnderstanding might not vnderstand but did open vnto his dearest their senses that they might vnderstand scriptures and more carefullie expressed his meaning for the instruction of his holie Disciples to the better bearing of that charge which he meant to leaue them in after his departure whither will these men I saie where they see all thinges so enuironed with trueth whither will they flie The scriptures be plainlie ours the Doctors they dare not claime reason is against them there is then no waie to beare it out but with boldnes and exercised audacitie Yet here we wil assay by the notorious euidence of this one cause that we now haue in hand to breake their stonie heartes to the obedience of Christs Church word for whose faith if they haue seene great light force of argument allready shal yet see much more I trust they wil not stil with stand the knowen truth FVLKE We will runne no further for the vnderstanding of Christes wordes concerning the institution and practize of his holie sacramentes although we haue the consent of the moste auncient and approoued doctors of the primitiue Church as witnesses of the same That the sacraments are commended in knowne terms of greatest and most efficacie that could be we cofesse but therof it followeth not that they were not in some part commended by figuratiue speeches
were by them Baptized it seemeth they take it of their Master Nouatus who because he had contemned he ceremonie vsed in that time of the Church him-selfe taught his schollers to doe the same left it should hawe beene reputed a want in him Although not the omission of the ceremonie but the contempt of the vsage of the Church being not impious in it selfe was chiefelie condemned in him For at such times as he was ordained Elder or Priest of the Church of 〈◊〉 it was thought by the Bishope a matter that might be remitted in him that for other respectes seemed meete for the office neither was it thought necessarie that he should receiue that cerimonie so by him omitted but not yet as it was thought in despight of the Church refused The Fathers oflater time as Theodoret writeth decreed that such as came from his heresie and would be incorporated into the Church should by receiuing that cerimonie which in time of their heresie they despised declare that they were truelie conuerted from it and willinghe submitted themselues to the Catholike Church and her Doctrine But of late daies when that ceremonie of anointing hath beene accounted a Sacrament yea and a greater Sacrament then Baptisme and thought necessary to eternall saluation whereas yet it hath no institution of Christ set forth in the holie Scriptures the reformed Churches haue iustlie abrogated that custome according to that libertie which the Church hath in all ceremonies not commaunded by God according to the example of the Church in former ages which hath abrogated manie ceremonies vsed of auncient times aswell as that of anointing with oile them that are Baptized ALLEN And first because generallie all the foresaid ioyne together against the trueth in this argument that it is dishonour to god and great presumption in a mortall man to claime the power so proper to God let the studious reader well consider that no function power ne dignitie be it neuer so peculiar to God him-selfe by naturaii excellencie but the same maie be occupied of man secondarilie as by the waie of seruice ministery or participation so that man challenge nor vsurpe it not as of him selfe or when it is not lawfuliie receaued nor orderlie giuen All the workes that extraordinarilie and miraculouslie were wrought either by Christ in his humanitie or by the Prophets or Apostles wordes or by their garments or by what other instrumēt so euer they were donne were the works of god no lesse then to remit sins yet al these things other the like brought to passe by man through the power of god that worketh by mans ministerie the same nothing derogateth to gods glorie but infinitelie augmenteth his honour euen so the power of pardoning mans sins being emploied by God the father vpon Christ his sonne by Christ vpon his Church ministers practized by them not of their owne might heades but in the 〈◊〉 of the holie ghost which by the sonne of god was 〈◊〉 vpon them this authoritie I saie is no derogation but an euident signe of his mightie power of saluation left for the faithfulls sake in the Church When the person that was lame from his birth begged of Peter and Iohn somewhat for his reliefe at the Temole dore as his manner was Peter answered him that golde and siluer he had none to giue but that which he had he would willinglie bestowe which was power to heale him of his incurable maladie for proofe whereof he bad him arise and walke and so he did at his word in the sight of all that there were gathered which being done and the people wondering thereat the Apostle thus instructed them Brethren faith he why wonder you at vs as though we had brought this strange worke to passe by our owne strength and power it is the God of Abraham Isaac Iacob that hath glorified his sonne Iesus whome you refused and betraied to Pontius Pilatus to be crucified in his name and faith this poore man is recouered Marcke well that the same thing which peter said him selfe had to giue quod habeo tibi do the same yet he professeth that he holdeth not as of his owne right or might but as of Christ Iesus in whose name he willed the lame to walke euen so the the power of pardoning sinner is truely and properly in the Priestes as the power of working miracles is properly in Peters hands neither the one noryet the other holden as of their owne might and power but both practized for the glory of God in the name of Iesus of Nazareth by their appointed ministery And as truly as Peter might saie to the feeble in body that which I haue I giue thee rise and walke in the name of iesos of Nazareth so surelie may the Priest saie to the sicke in souie that which I haue I giue thee in the name of Iesus thy Ennes my sonne be forgiuen thee No lesse is the one the peculiar worke of God then the other no more doth one dishonor god then the other FVLKE Nothing that is proper or peculiar to God can be communicated to man but it ceaseth to be proper to God For it is against the nature of properties to be made common to any other subiect then to that whereof they are proper adiuncts And yet I denie not but that which is proper to God he doth exercise often times by the seruice or ministery of men in which they are but instrumental causes he him selfe is the principal efficient otherwise man maie not occupie or execute secondly or thirdly or last of all by waie of participation that which is proper or peculiar to God So that it remaneth still an vndoubted truth that God onelie doth forgiue sinnes properlie and man doth not forgiue sinnes properlie but is the instrument of God to vtter and declare the good pleasure of God in forgiuing sinnes to all and euerie one that repent and beleeue the Gospe ll Your general negatiue that there is no function power nor dignitie be it neuer so peculiar to God by naturall excellencie but it maie be occupied of man secondly as by the waie of seruice ministery or participation if it were vrged against you would breed horrible absurdities To omit all other the power of creating thinges of nothing by what meanes maie man be partaker thereof occupie it or exercise it But let vs consider your induction All Miraculous workes worught by Christ in his humanitie the Prophets or Apostles were no lesse proper to God then the power to remit sinnes Yes verilie for manie miraculous workes that God did by Moses the inchaunters of Egipt did the like by the power of the deuill whereby it appeareth that although ail power be deriued from God as from the first cause thereof euen that power which the deuill hath yet it is otherwise communicated to creatures then the power of remission of sinnes is For that remaineth onelie in the hande of God and is not properlie
name and authoritie shall sufficientlie beate downe these mens boldnes Saint Ambrose in this case is moste plaine and standeth with the Nouatians as I doe now with the Zuinglians euen in the verie same argument in these wordes Sed aiunt se Domino deferre reuerentiam cui soli remittend orum oriminum potestatem reseruent imò nulli maiorem iniuriam faciunt quà m qui eius volunt mandata res indere commissum munus refindere nam cùm ipse in Euangelis suo dixerit Dominus Iesus accipite Spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata c. quis est ergo qui magis honorat Vtrum qui mandat is attemperat an qui resistit Ecclesia in vtroque seruat obedientiam vt peccatism alliget laxat That is to saie These Nouatians saie that they denie penance or power to remit sinnes in earth in respect of the maintenance of such honour as is due to God to whome onely they will reserue the pardoning of mans sinnes But in deede none doe so much iniury to Gods glory as those which breake his commaundements and make a diuision of that charge and commission which he giueth For seeing our Lord Iesus by his owne mouth spake these words Receiue ye the holy ghost whose sinnes you doe forgiue they be forgiuen and whose sinnes you holde they beholden who in this case more honoureth God He that obeieth his commaundement or he that resisteth the same The Church obeieth in both as well in binding as in loosing Thus there And a litle after Looke to whome this charge was giuen and that person may lawfullie and with Gods good leaue vse the same Au l therefore the Church may lawfullie both binde and loose heresie and her attendants can rightlie doe neither This right is onelie committed to priests and therefore the Church rightlie challengeth that authoritie because shee hath lawfull priests and so heresie cannot doe because shee hath not the priests of God in her cursed congregation Thus said Saint Ambrose for the answere of the Nouatians in his daies and so say I now in the Churches behalfe against the like affected enemies of Christs honour which whiles they in face of scripture and Gods word would seeme to defend they are become sworne aduersaries of his honour and open contemners of his commaundements and holy ordinance Saint Ambrose here taketh it for a ground that it is Gods ordinance that Priests should remit sinnes he is bolde to call the contrarie doctrine heresie he maketh a principle of this that it neuer dishonoureth God that man should doe that which God giueth him either commaundement or commission to doe in his behalfe he taketh it for a knowne trueth that as the Church of God hath true and lawfull priests so shee may by them vpon Christes warrant bath loose and binde and contrariwise that heresie may well enough giue ouer that right of remission of sinnes because shee hath lightlie no lawfull priests by whome shee may practize the same FVLKE First you make a vaine exclamation or outcrie as though heresie hath spoiled the Church of her treasures vnder pretence of Gods glorie but such rhetoricall vamties all wise men will deride The Church is not spoiled of her treasures when neither Christ nor his grace is conteined in the sacraments but when Christ her onelie treasure is spoiled of his glorie of sole redemption and fatisfaction for our sinnes or of any other parte of the office that belongeth to the mediator Therefore it is her greatest honour that Christ may haue his true honour in whome with whome she hath al things not to the glory of flesh bloode but to the glorie of God to whome all glorie of right belongeth what Saint Ambrose did write against the Nouatians pertaineth not to vs who denie neither the power of remitting nor of reteining of sinnes but graunt both But that Saint Ambrose did not meane of such a power as the Papists doe claime I haue shewed before out of his owne wordes in the same place where he saieth that our Lord hath chosen such Disciples as should be interpreters of their Lordes will This power is graunted to all true ministers of the Church that they are the Legates or embassadors of god to declare his wil pleasure vnto men aswel for remitting as for reteining of sins And therefore Nouatus or Nouatianus did very absurdlie by Saint Ambrose his iudgement that did arrogate vnto himselfe power to reteine sinnes while he pronounced that they which fell into Idolatrie after Baptisme might not be receiued into the Church vpon any trial of their repentance and would not yeald that the ministers of the Church by the same authoritie might pronounce that they which were truelie penitent of their former wicked behauiour were forgiuen in the iudgement of God which was to remit their sins vpon earth with faith in Gods promise that they shall be forgiuen in heauen Thus the answere of Saint Ambrose vnto the Nouatians doth nothing in the world make against vs which denie no power that Christ hath graunted to his Church vnder collour of maintenance of Gods honour ALLEN And surelie it is a maruclous force of trueth or rather the might of Gods prouidence that driueth Heretikes to disdaine destroie and dissanull the graces and manifold giftes of Christes Church that impugning them where the verie right of such holie actes doe lie they may plainlte confesse and to their shame acknowledge that they haue none such themselues nor cannot by Gods warrant challenge any such giftes which with all their might they would wholie if they could together with Gods spirit and Church extinguish Alas into what miserie hath this forfaken flocke willfullie cast them selues and their adherentes which can forsake Gods house vbi mandauit Dominus benedictionem vpon which God hath bestowed his blessing abide there where by their owne confession there is no Priesthood no penance no host no sacrifice no remission where they can let of sinnes no grace in sacramentes nor no gift of the holie Ghost All other herisies lightlie by force of the Fathers Doctrine and iudgement lost either their Priesthood because they had no waie out of the Church to make Priestes as Saint Hierome writeth of Hilarie the Deacon or els the vse and function of Priesthood by reason the workes of God cannot be orderly nor benefi iallie vsed out of the house of God and yet they euer claimed to themselues not onlie the order but for moste parte all other functions that by Christ and his Church were annexed to that order but ours wherein they passe all their forefathers in a manner willinglie giue ouer the wholl profession freelie and without compulsion denie them selues with Nouatus to be priestes denie to sacrifice denie to enioyne penance denie to giue the holie ghost either by imposition of handes or by Chrisme or by any other solemne right of Gods Church To be short take nothing from these fellowes that belongeth
be found in the scripture it is most cleere that God forgiueth our sinnes otherwise then by externall orders or sacramets Againe the sacrament of Baptisme is a seale and assurance vnto vs of the forgiuenes of our sinnes not onely such as are com mitted before baptisme receiued but euen vnto our liues end whensoeuer we are truelie penitent for the same Also the sacrament of the Lords supper in which we are spirituallie fed with the bodie of Christ which was giuen for vs and with his blood which was shed for the remission of our sinnes is a sure pledge token and seale of the remission of our sinnes committed after baptisme that we neede not the Popish sacrament of pennance for the same ALLEN As for my selfe good Christian Reader I am not so free from sinne wo is me therefore nor so void of mans affection but as often I heare in the sacrament of penance the Priest who to me then is Christ in full power of pardoning saying the wordes of absolution ouer me me think truelie I heare the sweete voice of Christ saying with authoritie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee Whereof no mortallman shall euer forbid me to take hope and singular trust of remission of sinnes with the passing comfort that thereon ensueth All these that are without Christes folde seeke not to heare his voice for all their load of sinne from the heauenlie and intire ioy whereof they be as farre as from the conceiuing of of the felicitie to come in heauen it selfe But let them assure themselues that Christ writeth with his holie finger all their sinnes though to Christ they will not now confesse them whiles they refuse the power ofremission that he both had aud hath in earth to the worldes end without which outward solemne act of penance man should either dispaire of Gods mercie and liue in feare intollerable of euerlasting perishing which often fall to timerous consciences or els which is now of daies more common men would liue in such passing presumption and vaine securitie of heauen that they should neuer till the very last breath of their euill time either be sorie for sinne or seke to do any good worke at al. This time shall testifie with me herein and the verie diuersitie that is betweene these our corrupt conditions and the holy studies and endeauours of our forefathers shalltestifie but the daies that yet are to come must need most feele the smart of it when these that now haue the direction of other mens steppes shall be gone by whome for olde discipline wherein they were brought vp Some signes and remnantes of vertue be continued in the world For when they be spent and our yonkers that neuer heard of the Churches discipline but haue had their full swinge in sinne with the instruction of a most wanton doctrine shall be the principall of the people if this diuision so long continue which God forbid into what terms shal trueth and vertue be then brought Me think I see before hand the lamentable state of things and in a manner beholde the fruit of our onelie faith of this bolde presumption of Gods mercie of remouing the discipline of penance of refusing the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes Euil are we now but a thousand partes worsse shal they be then which in long nouseling in this naughtie learning of libertie shall be in perpetuall wo and haue no feele nor sense thereof And all this must needs follow vpon the lack of these outward acts external waies of pardoning punishing offences and intended either for mans present comfort and solace or els to keepe in awe the wantons of the world by the rodde of outward discipline which in the Church hath euer especiallie beene obserued in the sacrament of penance FVLKE When we heare the authorized embassadours and messengers of reconciliation pronounce in the name of Christ according to the scriptures and promises of God that our sinnes are forgiuen vs whensoeuer we be hartilie sorie truely penitent for the same we haue sufficient warrant out of Gods word to assure our selues of remission of them with inestimable ioy comfort of conscience But for the sacrament of penance or the Priest to be Christ vnto vs in fullpower of pardoning or to haue anie wordes of absolution said ouer vs because we haue no ground in Gods word whatsoeuer imaginarie pleasure you haue therein we finde nothing that is of force to staie a weake conscience to comfort a troubled spirit or to heale a broken heart To confesse our sinnes to Christ who onelie knoweth whether our repentance be vnfained God forbid that we should refuse But to confesse them to a Popish Priest or anie lawfull minister if they be secret there is no law or commaundement of God to require vs. If our conscience be not satisfied about anie offence that we haue committed how we should declare our vnfained conuersion or repentance we maie vse the aduise of the Godlie and learned pastor who is able out of the word of god toresolue our doubts and quiet our conscience That the want of Popish pennance will driue all men either to desperation or securitie and presumption it is affirmed without anie proofe God be praised experience cryeth out of the contrarie side But rather the doctrine of poperie concerning the pretensed sacrament of penance is manifest occasion of securitie in them that are carnallie minded of desperation in them that haue a tender conscience For the one thinketh he hath an easy remedy for his sinnes to discharge them into a priestes eare the other considering the impossibilitie of confession and vnsufficiency of the satisfaction that be parts of this counterfet sacrament can finde smal comfort in the priests absolution Your blasphemous rayling at the doctrine of God iustifying by faith onely which you cal the instruction of a most wanton doctrine and the naughtie learning of libertie is sufficiently confuted by the examples of many thousands of Gods Saints who acknowledging that they are iustified in the sight of God by faith onelie in the merites of Christ are more fruitfull in good workes then all the popish hypocrites in the world Where you terme your popish penance to be the onely ordinance of god for remission of our mortall sinnes you vtter not onelie a grosse contradiction of the trueth taught in the holie scriptures but also directlie contrarie to the doctrine of all Papists and euen of your selfe For what saie you M. Allen were you wel aduised when you said that penance is the onely ordinance of God for remission of our mortal sins If it be as you saie then the sacrifice of the masse is not the ordinance of God for remission of our mortall sinnes as al Papists beside you do holde and mantaine and extreame vnction wherof you haue latelie affir med the contrarie is not the ordinance of God for the remission of our mortall sinnes The discipline of the Church wherby wantons are kept in
in renecessarilie rife for theie of all Christian people doth him confession of euerie of their mortall sinnes vnto h as the same is also prooued by the doctrine of the olie Fathers of Chistes Church THE TENTH CHAP. ALLEN ANd now I must aduertise my louing breethrenof the necessarie sequele hereof which to some I know seemeth so hard and vpleasant that the verie consideration thereof hath driuen manie that haue not felt the sweetenesse of Gods spirit by which euerie of his commaundements be they neuer so rough in apparance are made easie and delectable to the feare misliking and lothsomenes of the sacrament of penance Which as it is for other causes manie much abhorred of the wantons latelie departed out of the Church and of some worldlie Catholikes to that be not so zelouse in following trueth as they be desirous to know trueth so it is most lothed and feared for that in it there is required a distinct simple sincere and plaine confesfion to be made of euerie sinne that is knowne or suspected to be mortall vnto a Priest which is the lawfull minister of the same Sacrament with such diligent and exact examination of our consciences as a matter of such importance doth of reason require This is the great offence and staie that the weaklings of Christes Church do so earnestlie respect and so long they shall be vexed and molested in minde with the sower remembrance thereof as they do not prooue the sweete gratious and incomparable effect ensueing most assuredlie thereon so long shall they stumble at so small a straw as they do not feele the burden of sinne feare the paines of hell follow the quiet of conscience foresee the dreadfull daie of iudgement so long shall they be bashfull to submit them selues to one mans most close secret meeke and merciful iudgement as they feare not the infinite shame open horrible confusion and euerlasting rebuke before God Angell man and Deuill at the seat and sentence that shall be pronounced in the face of all creatures which must fall to them that close vp vnder couer and compas of their conscience such a number of manifold sinnes whereof in that daie both account and confession must be made to their vttermost confusion Finally so long shal mans will and corrupted nature disobey Gods ordinance heerein as he earnestlie and humbly seeketh not by praier at Christes handes the grace and gift of obedience and repentance Fot as the fulfilling of euerie of Gods commaundements cannot otherwise be had but by his speciall fauour so saith Saint Augustine or as some thinke rather Fulgentius Firmissime tene nullatenus dubites neminem hic posse hominem panitentiam agere nist quem Deus illuminauerit gratuita sua mis ratione conuertis Hold this for an assurance that no man can here do penance except he be illumined and conuerted theseunto by his singular mercie Neither doth this Doctour mean of anie otherway of repentance then is vsed for mortal sinnes after baptisme in the sacrament of the Church putting there in a manner by expresse wordes a double sacrament one for originall sinne that is in children onelie and that he calleth Sacramentum fidei that other for sinnes afterward committed which he tearmeth Poenitentiam Penance FVLKE That auricular confession or popish shrift is a necessarie sequele of the power that Christ hath giuen to the ministers of his Church to forgiue sinnes we must now see in what sorre you are able to prooue In which argument though most needfull for your purpose you haue verie litle to saie and that nothing to the purpose in deede either out of the scripture or out of the auncient fathers First you saie that shrift seemeth hard to them that haue not felt the sweetenes of Gods spirit by which euerie of his commaundements are made easie and delectable Here therefore were conuenient place for you to shew where in all the scriptures God hath commaunded men to confesse all their mortal sinnes committed in thought word or deede vnto a priest of your order But now you are as drie as a kixe and as barren of proofe as a pumisse stone of water There be many other causes then you alledge why popish shrift is so burthenous And the principall cause is because it is a tradition of man to clogge the conscience with intollerable seruitude And in stead of al the causes of the contempt thereof that you alledge so long shall euerie Christian man despise your auricular confession as any thing necessary required of him vntill you be able out of the holie scriptures inspired of God to prooue that it is such an ordinance of God as you in many wordes to no purpose doe bragge of before you bring forth the worde of God to prooue it The saying of Fulgentius is verie Godly and grounded vpon the holy scriptures but that he doth not meane of any other waie of repentance then is vsed in your popish Church what argument haue you to shew He putteth there you saie in a manner by expresse wordes a double sacrament calling the one sacramentum fidei and the other poenitentiam the sacrament of faith and repentance This is a strange manner of expresse wordes to prooue poenitentia to be a sacrament because baptisme is so yea it is manifest by his expresse words that he acknowledgeth no sacramentum poenitentiae but baptisine Cap. 30. Firmissimè tene nullatenus dubites exeptis illis qui pro nomine Christi suo sanguine baptizantur nullum hominem accepturum vitam aeternam qui non hîc à malis suis fuerit per penitentiam fidemque conuersus per sacramentum fidei penitentioe id est per baptismum liberatus maioribus quidem necessarium esse poenitentiam de malis suis agere fidem Catholicam secundùm regulam veritatis tenere sacramentum baptismatis accipere Paruulis verò qui nec propria voluntate credere nec poenitentiam pro peccato quod originaliter trahunt agere possunt sacramentum fidei quod est sanctum baptisma quamdiu rationis oetas eorum capax esse non potest sufficere ad salutem Holde thou most stedfastlie and nothing doubt that except those which for the name of Christ are baptized in their owne blood no man shall receiue life euerlasting which shall not be here conuerted from his euills by repentance and faith and by the sacrament of faith and repentance that is by baptisme be deliuered And for them that be of yeares truelie it is necessarie both to repent of their euills and to know the Catholike faith according to the rule of trueth and to receiue the sacrament of Baptisme But for infants which neither can beleeue by their owne will nor be penitent for the sinne which they draw originally the sacrament of faith which is baptisme is sufficient for them vnto saluation so long as their age cannot be ca pable of reason yea it semeth by this saying going imme diately before
they are not crowned if they be not didicated But if they be washed in their own blood this mans will pietie also hath washed him Againe he saith speaking in an Apostrophe to him Quis dabit tefrater fratrem mihi lactentem vbera matris meae hoc est non quicunque te sed Christus illuminabit gratia spirituali ille te baptizauit quia humana tibi officia defuerunt Who shall giue thee brother to be my brother sucking the papes of my mother that is not euerie one but Christ him selfe shall lighten thee with spirituall grace He hath baptized thee because the seruice of man was wanting to thee By all which wordes it is manifest that S. Ambrose vnderstood not those wordes of our sauiour Christ of externall baptisme as you doe when he refuseth not them that haue a purpose and will to be baptized and are preuented by necessity of time But where you proceed and dare be bolde to saie that neuer man was saued that either contemned or neglected confession if you meane popish auricular and as you after call it sacramentall confession I dare be bolde to saie you speake vntrulie because the word of God prescribeth no such confession as necessarie to saluation Confession of that we beleeue and of our sins before God I knowe to be necessarie to saluation Neither can you prooue that they which dispise popish shrift be contemners of Gods ordinance for the Minor of your syllogisme that followeth is a lowd lie that your popish sacrament of penance and confession made to the Priest is the appointed meanes that God vseth in his Church for remission of mortall sinnes for God hath appointed no such sacrament or confession as necessarie meanes without the which remission of sinnes may not be obtained Your similitude of baptisme will prooue nothing except you can first prooue your confession to be of Gods institution as necessarie for doing awaie sinnes committed after baptisme as baptisme is by Christs ordinance the seale of regeneration by which we are assured of the remissiō of our sins ALLEN And yet me thinke I heare alreadie the sounde of the deceitfull voices of our Preachers It is Christes bloode that remitteth sinnes Come to me all ye that are heauie loaden and I shall refresh you I am he saith the Lord that putteth awaie thy sinnes with a thousand such like as though Christes bloode did not stand with Christes ordinances and sacraments as though they came not to Christ that keepe the waie of his will and sacraments to come vnto him as though God did not remit those sinnes which in his name and in his sacraments and by his appointed minister be remitted Protestant saie plainlie will thou refuse baptisme because Christes bloode washeth awaie originall sinnes If thou darest not openlie so preach although couertly thou maie chaunce so intend how darest thou deceiue the people and draw them from penance and confession because Christes blood doth remit sinnes For if the one sacrament may stand with the honour of God and with all those places that thou bringest so deceitfullie out of the scripture why may not the other seeing both are prooued alike to be instituted of Christ For the same selfe sauiour which said Come to me ye that be loaden and I shall refresh you he and no other said except you be borne of water and the holie Ghost you cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen The same God that said I am he that putteth awaie thy sinnes saith now to the Apostles and Priestss whose sinnes you doe forgiue forgiuen be they The same Spirit of God that said in the Prophet Confesse your selues to the Lorde for he his good said now againe in the Apostle confesse your sinnes one to another that you maie be saued By which he meaneth not as Origen venerable Bede and other doe declare so much brotherly acknowledging sor counsellor other causes the greefe of minde ech man to his fellowe as he doth the order of sacramentall confession to be made vnto gods Priests as it may well appeere by the circumstance of the letter For there he had willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to annoile them streight after addeth this alledged text of confession and praing ouer the sicke The which place the heretikes sawe to sounde so manie waies as well towardes the sacrament of extreame vnction as the sacrament of confession both which they haue vnworthilie abandoned that they thought it not amisse either to denie the Apostles authoritie and the wholl epistle as no peece of holie scripture as Luther and other did or else which was after thought more handsome conueiance to corrupt the text and write instead of send for the Priestes of the Church thus call the elders of the congregation For they thought it might sounde euill to haue in one sentence priestes Church confession remission of sinnes release of paines for sinne annoiling praying ouer the sicke and so forth FVLKE It is no deceitfull voice of our preachers to affirme by these and a thousand such like textes of scripture that it belongeth to God onelie to forgiue sins properlie satisfaction being made for them by the bloode of Christ. And yet we derogat nothing from Christes ordinances and sacraments by which he worketh effectuall assurance of the same We acknowledge the ministerie of the Apostles and their lawful successours for the remission and retaining of sinnes both by preaching and by ministering of the sacraments instituted by our sauiour Christ. But we denie and dare stand to the deniall with all the papists that hath beene are or shal be that popish penance and confession is anie sacrament of our sauiour Christes institution for he that said whose sinnes you forgiue forgiuen be they hath not said whosoeuer will haue his sinnes forgiuen by you must haue some penance by you inioyned for satisfaction of Gods iustice yea there is nothing more contrarie to forgiuenes then satisfaction made by the partie to whome sinnes should be forgiuen And he that said confesse your offences one to another and praie one for an other that you maie be healed saith no where confesse all your sinnes vnto a Priest that you may be saued but willeth a mutuall acknoledgeing and reconciliation of one Christian man to another where there hath bin anie trespasse of such offences as one man hath committed against another and a mutuall acknowledging of our sinfullnes one to another that we may be sturred vp to mutuall praier By which textre the Priest is asmuch bounde to shriue himselfe to his parishioner as the parishioner to the Priest But Origen and Bede are alledged to prooue that the Apostle meaneth not onlie of such acknowledgeing nor so much thereof as the order of sacramental confession Verilie when the wordes of the scripture are plaine the sense 〈◊〉 to be gathered of the plaine words we may not restin anie mans opinion that is contrary to the same The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
is affirmed Where you quote Damascene I finde in him nothing for nor any thing sounding that waie in the place by you noted But in the tenth Chapter where he speaketh of eight kindes of baptisme the fifte he maketh Baptisme by the holie ghost and fire Which may be saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a punishing Baptisme because of the fire to come immediatelie followeth the sixth kinde of baptisme which is verie painfall by repentance and teares So that the one beeing distinct by the author from the other I know not by what learning you doe confound to make it seeme as both were one ALLEN Neither may we thinke that this authoritie and approoued power of priests concerneth onelie the open offences which by witnesse and proofe may be conuinced and deferred to the publike Magistrates of the Church as some Protestantes confounding all places of like wordes and tearmes in scripture doe Wherein they consider not that the perfectnesse of the Gospell teacheth man willinglie to accuse condemne and iudge himselfe that he be not iudged of our Lorde Neither doe they weigh that this iudgement of our sinnes though it be ministred by man is yet the seate and court of Christ to whome it no lesse perteineth to binde and loose our secret sinnes then our open offences And he without exception committed remission of all manner of sinnes vnto the Apostles and priestes saying Like as my father sent me so doe I send you But Christ was sent to heale the contrite and sorowfull of al sinnes priuate and publike therefore al manner of offences be they neuer so secret belong to the priests not onelie pardon but also correction and punishment whereof because they be men they cannot iustlie discerne or determine to remit or reteine giue pardon or giue penance except they be confessed by the parties penitent Christ him selfe perfectlie seeing all diseases both of bodie and soule the inwarde sorow and sute of euerie mans heart yet saied to the sicke man blinde Quid vis faciam 〈◊〉 what wouldest thou haue at my hands And shal the priest being a mortall man take vpon him to giue sentence of the diseases of our soules before he knowe them or pardō him that wil not shew vnto him wherein for what sin he asketh a pardō Furthermore the sins of mans cogitation that cannot be discerned by the priest with out the confession of the partie be often no lesse greeuous dānable before God then the open offences therefore there may be no doubt but Christ hath ordeined mercie as well for them as other that be actuallie committed and subiect to the sight of the world but yet no otherwise but by the sacramēt of penance in which without exception the priests haue power to remit or reteine sinnes as well priuate as publike Therefore the same secret sinnes beeing subiect to the Churches iudgement no lesse then the open they must needes be vttered and confessed or els they cannot be realesed much lesse haue any enioyned penance for them But it is mecre wrangling of our aduersaries in so plaine a case follie in all other to doubt whether secret offences euen committed in thought onelie against the last two commaundements forbiding vnlawfull coueting and desires of the minde be properly subiect to the Priests iudgement seeing they can by no otherwise be released but in the sacrament of penance sincere confession of them For here is practized a iudgement not of ciuile Magistrates which onelie punish by laws of all nations actually committed faultes against the weale publike but of soule and conscience which properly pertaine to the cure of Priestes as they properly occupie Christes owne roome to whose pardon and punishment not onelie open sinnes but also priuate offences either in deede or thought committed doe in like perteine For external penance or publike is rather vsed to satisfie the Church of her right in which sinnes can not openlie be committed but to the great offence of her children and therefore must in her by publike penance be corrected for the example of discipline and prouiso of the like sinnes to come FVLKE I knowe no Protestantes neither I suppose you can name anie writer of them that doth think that the authoritie of sorgiuing and retaining sinnes concerneth onelie open offences and not secret But it maie be that some protestantes haue written as all I think do holde and you your selfe in the end of this section do acknowledge that open confession is most conuenient fot the satisfaction of the Church which is offended where and by whome open and notorious sinnes haue beene committed But that secret confession made to a priest is necessarie for the discharge of secret sinnes all Protestants denie neither can anie Papistes prooue it For such reasons as you bring are verie weake and friuolous The perfectnes of the Gospell teacheth man willinglie to accuse condemne and iudge himselfe that he be not iudged of our Lord Ergo he is bound to shriue him-selfe to a Priest Nay contrariewise if he be made accuser condemner and iudge of himselfe he neede not seeke anie other externall iudge but in his owne conscience accuse examine condemne and iudge him-selfe before God And this court of conscience we acknowledge to be the seat and court of Christ where no priest or other mortal man hath authoritie to sit and iudge Neither doth anie correction punishment of our sins belong to priestes by reason that Christ sent the Apostles and their successours to Preach as he was sent by his father but they may remit or retaine sinnes without hearing the particuler confession of euerie sinner by declaring the mercie of God to all that repent and his iustice to all that continue in sinne without repentance But it is a maruetlous strong argument Iweene to prooue the necessitie of confession because our sauiour Christ caused the blinde man by vttering his request in particuler to declare his faith Nay if he had caused all them whose sinnes he pronounced to be forgiuen first to make particuler confession vnto him it had beene more coloure and yet no sufficient argument to prooue the necessity of confession to be made vnto other men much lesse that he would haue the blind mā acknowledge that he beleeued that he was able to giue him sight wherfore vpon a Principle shamefully begged that confession to a priest is necessary you go about to proue that confessiō of secret faults and cogitations of mans heart is also to be made to a priest you accuse your aduersaries of wrangling in so plaine a case and all men of follie that doubt whether such secret offences be subiect to the Priestes iudgement seeing they can not otherwise be released but in the sacrament of penance and sincere confession of them but which of your aduersaries will graunt that they can not otherwise be released or how will you satisfie them that doubt out of the holie scriptures of the institution of
euen in that sermon you quote requiring confession of secret faultes to be made onelie to God and not to men Sed confunderis erubescis peccata tua effari Atqui oportebat maximè apud homines ea dicere inuulgare Confusio enim est peccare non est confusio confiteri peccata nunc autem neque necessariùm presentibus testibus confusio confiteri Cogitatione fiat delictorum exquisitio absque teste sit hoc iudicium Solus te Deus confitentem videat Deus qui non exprobat peccata tua sed soluit peccata propter confusionem Nunquid sic grauaris retrocedis verùm ego scio quòd conscientia non sustinet sua delicta But thou art ashamed and abashed to vtter thy sinnes Yet thou oughtest moste of all to declare and publish them before men For it is ashame to sinne it is no shame to confesse thy sinnes But now it is neither necessarie to confesse in the presence of witnesses Let examination of thine offences be made in thought let this iudgement be without a witnesse let god only see thee making thy confession god which casteth not thy sinnes in thy teeth but too seth thy sinnes for thy shame what and arte thou greeued to doe so much and goest backe yet I know shy conscience cānot abide her owne offences These wordes a man would thinke should be plaine enough against the necessitie of auricular confession but that you haue found out a moste impudent interpretation of them to saie that by confessing to God he meaneth the close consistory of the priests iudgement who occupieth the seate of God and of this exposition the Master of the sentences should be author other schoolemen should be approouers Verelie whosoeuer inuented it or whosoeuer haue alowed it Chrysostome crieth out plainly that it is not his meaning which requireth the examination to be in thought alone and the iudgement without witnes which cannot be if the priest doe heare it And although he count it greater perfection to make open confession before men yet he denieth it to be necessarie Again in his commentarie vpon the Epistle to the Hebrews Cap. 12. Hom. 30. more plainlie after he hath exhorted men to count all their sinnes seuerally before God and to make an hartie confession of our vnworthines he addeth Non 〈◊〉 tibi vt te prodas in publicum neque vt te a pud alios accuses sed obedire te volo Prophetae dicenti reuela domino taunt viam Ante Deum ergo confitere peccata apud verum iudicem cum oratione delicta tua pronuncia non lingua sed conscientiae tuae memoria tunc demum spera misericordiam te posse consequt sihabueris in mente peccata tua contiuuò nunquam malum aduersus proximum in corde retinebis I say not to thee that thou oughtest to bewraie thy selfe abroad nor that thou shouldest accuse thy selfe before other men But I will haue thee obey the Prophet saying open thy wait before the Lorde Confesse thy sinnes therefore before God prononnce thy offences before the true iudge with praier not with thy tongue but with rememberance of thy conscience and then hope that thou maist obteine mercie if thou shalt haue thy sinnes in minde continuallie thou shalt neuer reieine euill in thy heart against thy neighbour We must confesse our selues before the consistorie of that true iudge where we neede not to pronounce with our tongue but in our constience our sinfull state which is not the close consistorie of popish shrift where without the tongue the priest can know nothing Yet again the same Doctor vpon the 50. Psal. Hom. 2. writeth moste plainlie Pecoata tua dictio vt deleas illa si confunderis elicui dicere quia peccasti dicito eaquotide in anima tuas non dico vt confiter 〈◊〉 seruo tuo vt exprobret dicito deo qui curateoe Haec enim si non dixeris ignorat ea Deus nunquid à te vultea 〈◊〉 Cùm faciehas ea practo erat cùm admitteres 〈◊〉 are non erubuisti confiteri erubescis dicito in 〈◊〉 vs in illa requiem habeas dicito ingemiscens lachrimans Declare thy sinnes that thou maiest 〈◊〉 them out if thou be ashamed to declare to any that thou hast sinned declare them dailie in thine owne soule I doe not saie that thou oughtest to confesse them to thy fellow seruent that he may cast thee in the teeth declare them to God which doth heale them For if thou shalt not declare them is God ignorant of them Or would he know them by thee when thou didest them he was present when thou didest commit them he knew Thou waste not ashamed to sinne and art thou ashamed to confesse declare thy sinnes in this life that thou maist haue rest in that life declare them groning and weeping With what conscience could the Master of the sentences first or any man after him wrest these words of Chrysostome to so contrarie a meaning But what durst they not doe which had giuen ouer them selues whollie to mainteine the corrupt customes of the Romish Church how concrarie soeuer they were either to the holie scriptures or to the testimonies of the auncient Doctors But you haue an inuincible argument to prooue plainlie that his onelie purpose was to bring men to confession and penance sacramentall you meane to Popish shrift For there he chargeth them saie you that they did not wcepe nor lament nor confesse their sinnes which he could not doe rightlie if those thinges were onelie inwardlie in cogitation and heart to be done For how could he knowthat they did not make confession Yes Master Allen beeing their pastour and ouerseer of their soules he might know by their outward sinfull and carelesse conuersation that they did not weepe nor lament nor confesse their sinnes before God For if they did dailie examine themselues as he chargeth them they would not haue bene so loose in life as they were and therefore you haue not so much as obscurelie prooued your purpose lest of al that it was Chrysostomes onelie purpose to driue his people to shrift which if it had beene a necessarie institution of Christ as you holde he would not haue beene so daintie for any offence of the weake as you make him to cal men vnto it vpon necessitie of saluation He that feared not openlie to reprehend the Empresse would he haue beene afraide of the peoples displeasure No no Master Allen Gods institution necessarie to saluation maie not be concealed though heauen and earth should runne together about the publishing thereof ALLEN But whosoeuer list see the moste assured and vndoubted meaning of this holie Father touching confession to apriest whereon I stand the longer because our aduersaries would picke quarells with Gods Church vpon certeine particles of his sentence let him read the second and third booke of the dignitie of priesthoode where he doth not onelie attribute more dignitie to that order then
but the promise of truth which indeed if it be shewed so manifest that it cannot come in doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which I am holden in the Catholike Church But if it be onelie promised and not exhibited no man shall mooue me from that faith which bindeth my minde with so manie and great knottes vnto Christian religion Let vs see therfore what Maniche doth teach me c. These wordes declare that setting aside the wisdom of the Church grounded vpō the scriptures which the heretikes would not acknowledge there were manie other things that might iustlie holde him in the Catholike Church among which the name of Catholikes was but one and serued onelie at that time when the Catholike religion was moste commonlie imbraced therefore he denied not that the name of Catholike onelie was sufficient to teach a man to knowe the Church and the trueth by it but acknowledgeth that all these motiues of vniuersalitie consent miracles succession name of Catholike must giue place to the trueth when it is plainlie shewed out of the canonicall scriptures as in the chapter following he vrgeth them to shew out of the gospells of Christ wher it is writen that Manicheus was an Apostle of Christ as his sect affirmed and his epistle pretended As for the reason you alledge that vnlearned men are not able to stand with heretikes in disputation which wil challenge the Church to themselues is of no force for the vnlearned man ought to know the Church by the true notes thereof conteined in the scriptures which is sufficient for to satisfie his conscience although he can not cunninglie auoide all the Sophisticall arguments that the aduersarie bringeth whereas theonelie name of Catholikes can breede no true faith or quietnes of minde which is not obteined by the peoples iudgement but by authoritie of the worde of God And seing the people are commonlie deceiued in many matters of difficultie and moste of all in misnaming of things what assurance shall the vnlearned haue that they be not deceiued in this so weightie a matter and wherein their speach may so easilie be abused But howsoeuer it was the common calling of the people brought you to know Catholikes Catholikes to know the Church and the creede taught you to beleeue the Church rules in Popes pardons then in other articles Thus is your faith builded altogether vpon humane presumptions the ladder whereof is this you beleeue Popes pardons because the Church of Rome alloweth them you beleeue the Church of Rome because it is the Catholike Church you beleeue that it is the Catholike Church because the people commonlie call it so But of Christian faith Saint Paull describeth another ladder faith commeth by hearing hearing by the worde of God preached by ministers sent of God so that against the authoritie of god who giueth both his worde and preachers and by them true faith you haue the generall and common calling of men which giue authority to that companie to be the Church which is surnamed Catholike which company so called may cause you to beleeue what they list and this indeed is the ground of al your heresies if you had gone one step lower that the Deuill inspireth ignorant and wicked men to call his fowle blouse the Romish synagogue by the name of the beautifull spouse of Christ his Catholike Church ALLEN The second cause that mooued me to reuerence the power of pardoning in the high Bishup and to like his Indulgences was the verie persons of them which first reprooued the same In whome because I saw the worlde to note and wonder at other manie moste blasphemous and inexcusable heresies I verilie deemed though I was then for my age almoste ignorant of all thinges that this opinion and impugnation of Pardons could neither be of God nor of good motion that first began in them begate such a number of most wicked cōtentio is opinions as streight vpon the controlling of the Churches power herein did ensue not onelie against Christs officers in earth but against his Saints in heauen against himselfe in the blessed Sacrament This extreame intollerable issue mee thought verilie could haue no holie entraunce and therfore with the other named cause stayed me in the Churches faith euen then when I had no feeling nor sense in the meaning of these matters FVLKE You were a wise young man in those daies when being almost ignorant of all things as you confesse you would follow the iudgement of the worlde in condemning the persons of them that reprooued pardons and were not able to iudge whether they were iustlie condemned of other blasphemous inexcusable heresies Nay at this presēt time as great a cleark as you are taken to be among your friends you are not able to conuince thē of such blasphemous inexcusable heresies as you prate of And yet if you had bin thō as able iustly to haue reproued thē by the scriptures of such monsters as the world did wonder at in them yet you staied vpō a weake staffe except this be a good atgumēt with you heretiks hold manifest false opinions therefore they holde no true opinions Much more wiselie and soundlie you should haue sought the true Church as Saint Augustine teacheth out of the scriptures and thereby iudged of the worldes noting and wondring which because it consisteth moste of wicked men doth commonlie condemne Christ and his Gospell Out of the same scripture you should haue learned who were Christes officers and whoe the limmes of Antichrist what honour is due vnto the saints in heauen and what manner presense there is of Christ vpon earth But as your faith was thē grounded vpō simple sophistrie in supposing that which no wise man will graunt so is it not now much differing from the same although you haue learned with more craft to peruert a few scriptures and to wrest the sayinges of some dctors for a florish hauing no more substance of true faith which is builded vpon the word of God then you had before For if your shameles principle be denyed that you are the Church of Christ then you come back to these beggerlie motyues as in your articles and Bristowes motyues is manifest being not able either to finde the notes of the true Church in the synagogue of Rome nor to iustify the doctrine of the Church of Rome to be builded vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles when triall is to be made by their writings ALLEN But afterwad reading the historie of the pitifull fal of our time and there considering the sinister intent and occasion of the first improofe of Pardons and all the strange endeuours of Luther whose name is cursed to all good men who first in all mans memorie sauing one Wicleffe who was condemned in Constance Councell for the same was so bolde onelie vpon contention and couetousnes to condemne that which himselfe in Conscience knew to be true and lawfull I could not
but much be confirmed in my faith thereby And yet all this while though the matter of pardons seemed to me to be more and more sound in it selfe and as true as the Spirit of God is true who was the author thereof in the Church yet I did not then consider of it as a thing of anie great importance but I conceiued it to be a small matter subiect to a certaine iugling in reason such as wicked men lightlie make their close and craftie entrance by to more mischiefe and further attemptes against the common faith of the Church I could not then conceiue which I after ward so plainlie and now more and more by the better surueie of the cause do perceiue that in this one falsehood there was couertlie conteined the verie pith of falsehood and improofe of the greatest matters which life and faith doth stand vpon FVLKE Your first motiues to this faith of yours were not more feeble then your confutations in the same were fond and foolish You did reade the storie of the alteration in religion that hath fallen in our time But of whose writing I praie you euen of such as were proctors for the Popes pedlarie ware or pillers of his pretensed power which was none other but according to the prouerb before mentioned aske my fellow if I be a thiefe If you had read the storie written indifferentlie without partialitie to either partie you might haue iudged better of the wholle matter Some perhapes are liuing that can testifie of the things that were done publike monuments are extant totestifie the same so much more intollerable is your arrogancie to iudge vpon the onelie sinister report of the aduersaries of Luther of holie and blessed memorie with all true Christians that onelie contention and couetousnes mooued him to condemne that which himselfe in conscience knew to be true and lawfull Like boldnes you shew in affirming that Luther was the first in all mans memorie sauing one 〈◊〉 that despised pardons forgetting the Waldenses that were long before Wiclefe and the Bohemians that were after him before Luther who condemned popish pardons as much as Wiclife or Luther For they condemned the Pope to be Antichrist as much as these did But now let vs examine the storie as it is knowne to be moste true in Saxonie where Luther first found fault with pardons When Pope Leo. 10. had sent abroad his pardons which were preached by Terelius a Dominike frier in such impudent manner that they seemed to serue for no end but the Popes couetousnes and the licentiousnes of the people Luther at that time hauing a zeale of God but not according to knowledge did mildelie and modestlie admonish the people of the deceites and abuses of pardons and pardoners which long before his time were reprooued in the Councells of Latrean and Vienna he complained to the Archbishoppe of Ments to the Bishop of Branderburg to the prouinciall of the Augustine friers and to the Pope him selfe in all thinges submitting him selfe to the Pope and Church of Rome so it were not against the holie scriptures When he could finde no equity nor redresse of these abuses which euen Surius the papist confesseth to haue bene iustlie complained of by him and vniustlie manteined or dissembled by the prelates he proceeded farther as God gaue him knowledge and at length compelled by intollerable iniurie and neglect of manifest trueth and reformation of lise did cast of the Anrichristian yoke of the Popes obedience Now whereas you charge him with contention and couetousnes the world your iudge before maie gather whether Luther if against his conscience he would haue set forth the Popes pardons especiallie at such time as the Pope had great neede of monie for warre against the Turkes might not haue made a more easie waie for him selfe to honour and ri hes then by setting himselfe against them But howsoeuer it was your fault faith was thus confirmed and that to such blasphemous boldnes that without authoritie of the holie scriptures the matter of pardons seemed to you as true as the spirit of God is true and hauing none other arguments to perswade you but that Papistes called them selues the Catholike Church and condemned Luther of manie heresies and write in their stories that Luther was mooued by contention and couetousnes to oppose him selfe against them you nothing doubted but that the spirit of God was author of popes pardons in the Church Beeing now resolued of the substance you were not yet perswaded of the quantitie but thinkeing the matter at the first was but small at length you came to a perfect knowledge how great and weightie it is and how it draweth with it all other waight in so much that the verie pith of the greatest matters of popish life and faith doe stand vpon it If then the pith of the greatest matters of poperie doe stand in Popes pardons and this pith hath no ground either in the scriptures or the fathers of the Church for a thousand yeares after Christ we maie the more easily see that the plant of poperie whereof pardons is the pith is not of Gods owne planting and therefore shal be plucked vp by the rootes ALLEN Thou wouldest not thinke I dare saie into what a summe and abridgment heresie hath by the Deuilles deuise and Luthers seruice drawne her selfe into For by this one false conclusion and for maintenance thereof this man and his posteritie haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne haue spoiled the Church of her iust and and moste necessarie discipline controlled Gods owne holie vsage incorrection of his children haue entered into his secrets of the next world and there abandoned the place of his iustice and iudgement for sinnes that be remitted but not enough to his wisdome and will corrected haue robbed the holie Saints of all their merites that is to saie Christ of his giftes and grace whereby onelie they besosoneraigne and satisfactorie haue imbarred the bodie mysticall of Christ of the benefit which the wholl and euerie member thereof should receiue by the satisfaction and holie workes of the common head which is Christ haue broken the communion of Saints and the sweet felowship of all the holie members of Gods Church and the benefit which riseth frometh to other by mutuall participation of their good works and desertes and to be short haue by this one falsehood preached against pardons done iniurie to Christ to his Church to his Saints and to his sacraments and haue mightelie shaken the whole frame of Christian religion and doctrine I doe not here riot in wordes to ouerrunne my aduersaries in talke or to make more of the matter then it is but assuredlie without destruction of all these so necessarie articles of our faith there can no man defend Luthers doctrine against Indulgences I knowe he fumbled at the beginning otherwise then his fellowes and followers to disgrace the same sometimes by holding the pardons to be lawfull but not
profitable other whiles to be deceites but yet inuented for holie purposes now by avouching they could not stand with Gods iustice if they shoulde remitte anie part of the appointed paine for sinnes and else when that there was no paine for remitted sinnes at all whereupon the indulgences should not be needfull but vaine and friuolous with such other inconstant stammering as lightlie is common to them that seeke to vp hold falshood against their owne skill and consciences But his followers as well of the Protestants as Zuinglians and Caluinistes to make the waie of wickednes more easie and plaine haue boldlie denied all penance and temporall paine for sinne remitted whether it be by Christs or the Churches enioyning haue taken awaie Purgatorie haue bereued Priesthood of all power and the Church of all her treasure of Christes copious and abundant redemption Whereupon I cannot otherwise iudge but that doctrine which else can not be refelled but by the waste of so manie vndoubted articles should stande exceeding fast and be grounded moste surelie vpon all these foresaide truthes without the destruction whereof it can not be of anie force ouerturned FVLKE As no man would thinke any such matter if you had not put it in their heades so no wise men can thinke otherwise of Pardons then he did before you tooke in hande their defence sauing that all reasonable men may thinke them so much the worsse because you are able to defend them no better And if all the principles of popery as you saie be contained in the matter of pardons as in a summe or abridgment the children of God maie behold the prouidence of god more clearelie in setting Luther first against them at such time as he knewe no such matter neither had anie purpose but to disswade the moste grosse abuses and palpable impostures which were that time mantained about them alowing the pardons still as good and lawful But for the mantainers of this conclusion you say he and his haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne c. Naie they haue established and restored the true vse of repentance and shewed that the death of Christ is the onelie satisfaction for sinnes the discipline of the Church from a batbarous antichristian tyrannie they haue reduced within the limmites of the scriptures and the practize of the primatiue and pureit age of the Church the chastising that God vseth for correction of his children they haue taught out of the scriptures how it is to be taken patientlie as an admonition for amendement not an amends for our misdoing which sauoreth as much of pride as their doctrine doth of humility The secrets of the next world not reueiled in the scriptures they leaue vntil the time of the general reuelation of al secrets and therfore they presume not to allow purgatorie paines for the clensing of those sinnes which the scripture teacheth to be purged by the bloode of Christ in whome all our sinnes are thorowlie punished to the full satisfaction of the iustice and wisedome of God They haue left to the saints al their merits which is nothing els but the grace of God sufficient for their saluation not placing the workes of saints in the place of Christes passion which is onelie of it selfe soueraigne and satisfactorie for all men The mysticall bodie of Christ and the holie cōmunion of saints they beleeue to receiue all vertue and power of life from Christ the head and euery member to exercise that office which by his grace is assigned vnto it therefore they haue done no iniurie to Christ his Church his saints sacraments or his holy Religion but their dutie in purging the doctrine ofChrist his Church his saints sacraments and Religion from error falsehood heresie and blasphemie You tell the reader that you doe not riot in wordes to ouerrunne your aduersarie but if he be wise he will remēber that a crafty orator doth sonest deceiue when he pretendeth moste plainenes What Luther thought and taught at the first of pardons his writings are extant in print to declare in which he confesseth that he did fight in the darke yet it pleased God by the importunitie of his aduersaries to sturre him vp to search the trueth out of the holie scriptures Neither hath Zuinglius or Caluine or anie of the Protestants taught otherwise of repentance satisfaction power of priesthood or the tresure of the Church then Luther did after God had reueiled the trueth vnto him and he openlie preached the same Seeing therefore the matter of pardons cannot stand but vpon the blasphemous heresies which the popish antichristian Church doth teach against the glorie of the onelie redemption of Iesus Christ our onelie and whole sauiour and reedemer it must needs be one of those pestilent poisons which Sathan after his loosing out of the bottomeles pit hath powred forth into the world the defacing of the glorie of Christ and the destruction of manie ignorant soules ALLEN Therefore least any man by making smaller accompt of so litle a braunch of the Churches faith then he should do fall further vnto the mistrusting of other many of knowen importance I thought it good to debate the question of Indulgences which be now commonly called the Popes Pardons though not onely he but also other Prelates of Christendome haue their seuerall right eche one according to the measure of the Churches graunt and his iurisdiction therein In which matter because most men of smaler trauail haue erred rather by misconstruing the case mistaking the state of the cause then for any lacke of sufficient proofe of the matter after it were wel vnderstanded I will studie first clearly to open the meaning of that whereon we stande and then to go through the whole question with as much light and breuitie as I can tempering my selfe as much as I maie from all such 〈◊〉 as the depth of so grounded a conclusion and the learned disputation of Schoolmen might driue me vnto Wherein I am content rather to followe the desire and contentation of the reader then to satisfie my owne appetite which I feele in my selfe to be somewhat more greedie of matter sometimes then the common people whome I studie moste to helpe can well beare and yet if they thinke it anie vantage to knowe trueth and the necessarie Doctrine of their faith they must learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause and further I shall not charge them FVLKE You come to late after the vanitie treacherie and blasphemie of pardons hath beene so long set abroad and knowen to the world and bringing no better stuffe then you do to suppose that you shal be able to restore pardons into the auncient credit they had within these foure score yeares euen with the simplest papist in Europe You would make the matter more plausible by communicating the right of pardons to all prelates of christendome as wel as to the Pope whereas indeed your popish Church keeping no proportion aloweth none
from part of his sinne and bound in the other part but he that forgiueth the guilt and faulte of sinne which the Prophet calleth iniquitatem peccati he releaseth no daies or yeares but he forgiueth the verie fault it selfe Neither is there any eternall punishment which can be eased by any number of daies were they neuer so many Take you from an infinite and endlesse thing how much you list and it shal be eternall still Then it is onelie temporal punishment which before God and the world is limited by certaine proportion of the wickednes committed and of that satisfaction which gods iustice requireth at the partie penitent which can be released by daies or yeares in part or in whol And therefore the Popes or Bishops Pardons onelie forgiue temporall punishment enioyned or at the left due for answere of Gods righteousnes to be enioyned Wherein also the Magistrates of the Church haue such care and consideration that they remit not so much as any one daie of enioyned penance or deserued punishment but by recompence of the lacke of mans satisfying with some portion of Christes abundant desertes applied by the vse of their keies to the reliefe of such as doe lacke and for their zeale and deuotion are not worthie to receiue benefit by the singular treasure of the common wealth to helpe them in their priuate neede But for this matter looke for more toward the end of the booke FVLKE This first reason is verie feeble some pardons haue this clause de poenitentys iniunctis of penance inioyned therfore in al other pardons in which is expresse mention not onelie of penance inioyned but also of pardoning of sins either al or some part of them the temporall punishment onely is meant to be pardoned The second reason is as good Sinne is vndiuisible and so is the punishment for sinne and eternall therefore it is onelie temporall punishment which is released by daies and yeares But what saie you then to moste full pardons of all sinne and all punishments where there is no limitation of daies nor yeares what saie you to the release of the third part or the seuenth part of all sinnes beside many thousand yeares of punishment remitted as I haue shewed before in the Pardons of Alexander the fourth confirmed by Pope Leo the tenth within these eightie yeares The third argument is that the magistrates of the Church remit not so much as one daie of punishment due to Gods iustice for sinne but by recompensing the want of mans satisfaction with some portion of Christs abundant desertes applied by the vse of the keies c. But what intollerable blasphemie is this to applie the merites of Christ but onelie in defaulte of mans satisfaction whose bloode is the onelie purgation of our sinnes whose righteousnes is the wholl propitiation for our iniquities whose redemption by his death purchased is eternall for all them that are sanctified Againe what an horrible blasphemie is it to make a marchandise of the merites of Christ our sauiour as the Pope doth in the saile of his pardons And finallie what scripture giueth anie dispensation of Christes merites vnto anie mortall man and lest of all to the Pope the man of sin if it be lawful thus to imagine implie applie forge and faine without al ground of the holie scriptures religion shal be nothing but as it pleaseth men to make it as it is plaine in the Popish synagogue ALLEN And now vpon the fore said declaration let this be as it were agreed vpon and let the aduersaries well vnderstand this to be the meaning of the Catholike Church that an Indulgence or pardon is nothing els but a remission in parte or in whole of the bond of that punishment which is enioyned or deserued after the mortall sinnes be remitted Gods iustice being otherwise for the said sinnes recompensed by the common treasure of Christ and his Saints satisfaction which is applied vnto the parties vse by the keis of iurisdiction graunted to such as Christ made the Stewards of his household the disposers of his mysteries For the Church of God and her Pastours though they be mercifull inclining to remission rather then rigour yet they take not vpon them neither in the sacrament of penance to remit sinne and damnation neither out of the sacrament to release anie paine or parte of punishment enioyned without recompence thereof by Christes copious redemption and the communion of holie workes that is betwixt the head and members of this mysticali bodie of Christ. FVLKE So often as you repeat this vntrueth so often it must be tolde you that it is false that the popes pardon by the meaning of the giuer and receiuers is nothing els but a remission of punishment enioyned or deserued after mortall sinnes be remitted when it is expressed in the same that it is either for all sinnes at well as paines or els for some parte of the sinnes as well as some part of the vaines except you will accuse the Pope of manifest falsehoode and cosonage to promise that which he meaneth not to giue and wotteth well is not in his power to giue Againe where you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise recompensed we know his iustice is throughlie satisfied by the obedience and suffering of Christ as wel for al our sinnes as for the punishment due for the same therefore your Popes pardons are needles where God forgiueth our sinnes iustifieth vs freely for Christes sake But where you ioyne the satisfaction of saints vnto the common treasure of Christ it is exceeding blasphemous against the sufficiency of his satisfaction and the grace of Gods free iustification For all haue sinned and are destitute of the glorie of God beeing freelie iustisied by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Iesus whome God hath set forth to be a propitiation by saith in his blood But admit all these lies and blasphemies hetherto aduouched were graunted who gaue the Pope authoritie to applie the same by the key of iurisdiction How prooue you the key of iurisdiction to extend so farre For the keies of the kingdome of heauen whatsoeuer they are be committed to the wholl Church and not to one person onelie as Cyprian Augustine Chrysostome Ierome and all the auncient Doctors agreablie to the scriptures do confesse And God hath made all the Pastors of the Church stewardes of his household and dispensers of his mysteries And if euerie Pastour ouer his charge be a steward and dispenser of Gods mysteries as you seem to graunt why hath he not authoritie to release the penance by him-selfe inioyned or the punishment due for sinne remitted as well as the Bishop or the Pope Why hath he not the key of iurisdiction ouer his parish in as large and ample manner as the Bishop hath ouer his dioces or the Pope ouer all men seeing the keies are not giuen to one but to the vnitie as the auncient fathers teach Whie should the Bishop
had expresselie forgiuen him by the warrant of the Prophet Nathan his greeuous sinnes Consider the case of all Gods elect people how sharpelie they were visited for sinne after it was in them pardoned Marke whether Marie Moises his sister was not punished and separated seuen daies as it were for penance after her brethren had procured her pardon at Gods handes Thus hath God of respect not onelie to mercie but also partlie to iustice so alwaies pardoned that he had consideration of iudgement and righteousnes Now whome should the Church follow in remitting of sinnes but him by whofe power and warrant she doth remit sinnes FVLKE We see that god did chastise the Prophet Dauid and his posterititie with a rodde of man and with a fatherlie correction but his mercie and louing kindnes he neuer tooke from them Neither punished them to satisfie his iustice for their sinne remitted but to make them and other by their example more carefull not to commit sinne in time to come The case of Gods elect people was somewhat otherwise Exod. 32. where although he receiued to mercie the wholl people that they should not be destroied from the face of the earth yet he might of his iustice punish a number of particular persons that were moste rebellious and authors of the defection and Idolatrie Marie the sister of Moses was also punished of God first to humble her and bring her to repentance and that punishment was continued on her for a few daies partlie to exercise her in earnest and hartie repentance partlie to admonish the people by her example to beware of murmuring against Gods ministers their lawfull magistrates not in respect of anie satisfaction of Gods iustice which can receiue none but a ful sufficient satisfaction in his beloued sonne Iesus Christ. Wherefore if the Church will follow God in remission of sinnes she must remit them freelie as God doth in Iesus Christ forgiue vs for so Saint Paull meaneth that men should forgiue one another their trespasses and not to remit the fault and retaine the paine except it be in case where men are appointed by God to execute paines as the Magistrates are or to practize discipline as the Church is in which case the Church may not think to satisfy Gods iustice but to seek reformation of the offender and to prouide for the example of others ALLEN Seeing God then him-selfe after he hath by his owne means and absolute power pardoned mans faultes and discharged him of the sentence of death and damnation had yet enioyned penance as when he said to Adam In the sweate of thy browes thou shalt prouide for thy liuing And to Eue. Thou shalt in paine bring forth thy Children And to them both that they should die the temporall death though they might escape by his mercie euerlasting miserie seeing this we neede not to doubt but temporall punishment often remaineth after the sinnes be remitted and that the Church of God doth imitate moste conuenientlie the saied mercie enioyned with iustice in all her most righteous practize of pardoning and punishing sinne in Christes behalfe by whose iurisdiction she herein holdeth But for the further proofe of the matter I haue saide much in the defense of Purgatotie and this question properlie of Purgatotie and this question properlie perteineth to 〈◊〉 place FVLKE That temporall punishment is laied vpon men often times although their sinnes be remitted it is no question but whether such punishment be a satisfaction to the iustice of God or a fatherlie discipline of his mercie that is the matter in controuersie The Church therefore in exercising the discipline of God vpon offendours may and ought to imitate the example of god but then shee must beware of two things the one that she laie no other burthen of punishment vpon the offendours then the worde of God will warrant therefore penance is not arbitrarie as the Canonists doe saie but to be directed by the worde of God Secondlie shee must take heede that shee release no more punishment then shee is able to laie on And therefore shee must be assured by the worde of God whether shee can eioyne penance to be suffered in Purgatorie before shee take vpon her to remit any such punishment touching which matter as you haue saied more in the defence of Purgatorie so haue I answered sufficientlie to the ouerthrow of Purgatorie and all that dependeth thereupon That Christ gaue by his expresse worde authoritie to the pastours of Gods Church to binde and loose not onely the sinnes themselues but also the temporall paine or penance remaining THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN BVt now for the iurisdiction that Gods Church hath in releasing the same punishment which remaineth after the fault be forgiuen it standeth no doubt vpon that high commission which Christ receiued of his Father and did communicate moste amplie to the Apostles and by then to all Bishops for euer For the father did not onelie honour Christ his sonne according to his humanity with the power of priesthoode or with other soueraignitic for the institutious of sacraments or such like but with all regiment of that bodie whereof he is the heads as he is man By which keye of iurisdiction he corrected sinners with great Maiestie and pardoned them at his pleasure not onelie of sinne and euerlasting paine where the penitencie of the partie did so require but also of such correction as the law had prescribed for sinne or Gods iustice had enioyned for the same FVLKE That the Church hath any iurisdiction in releasing that punishment which remaineth after the faulte for giuen for a satisfaction of Gods iustice it hath not hetherto beene prooued nor euer shall be prooued by authoritie of the holie scriptures which teach the contrarie that Christ alone hath by his one sacrifice made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And therefore it is vnreasonable to seeke whereupon it standeth For neither did Christ receiue any such commission in his humanitie neither did he deliuer ouer any such iurisdiction vnto his Apostles to release temporall punishment due to Gods iustice vnsatisfied by his death and passion For by one oblation once offered by his eternall spirit he made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And the power of Priesthoode and soueraigne authoritie to institute sacraments and to be head of his Church he receiued not as man onelie but as our mediatour God and man The Lorde said vnto my Lorde saith Dauid sit thou on my right hand Thou art a Priest for euer c. Which offices authorities can not beseparated from his diuinity without Nestorian impiety Christ is head of his Church a Priest for euer as he is Dauids Lord but as he is Dauids Lord he is not onelie his sonne but his God therefore he is heade of his Church and a priest after the order of Melchisedeeh not as he is man onelie but as he is God man neither did he pardon any
man of sinne and euerlasting paine whome he also punished for the same sinne with temporal paine as a satisfaction to the iustice of God which none could satisfie in part or in wholl but he onelie by his obedience and suffering ALLEN And this iurisdiction and power of regiment he gaue to Peter principallie when he bestowed on him the keies of heauen vpon the rest of the Apostles with him the power of binding and loosing which is moste principallie and properlie meant of enioyning penance or punishing by sharpe discipline the sinners euill life either before they forgine his sinnes or afterward For as the place of the 20. of Saint Iohn properly concerneth the power of pardoning reteining or forgiuing penance for satisfaction in the sacrament by the right of Priesthoode receiued in their orders though it may somewhat concerne the iurisdiction of the high Magistrates also so the place of Saint Matthew rather perteineth to the chastisment of the wicked by the open discipline as they haue the regiment of al our affaires then it doth to the sacramentall remisstion or satisfaction enioyned For ligare there doth signifie some bond of punishment wherewith the partie is tied and charged for his correction and not onelie bonde of sinne wherewith the Church bindeth no man no more then God himselfe doth but euerie man onelie bindeth himselfe in his owne sinnes And the Church or her ministers doe properlie then binde when they punish by their iurisdiction the sinnes committed not for the damnation of them that did fall but for their correction and amendment And the plaine mention of excommunication which there is expressed to be giuen to the Apostles for the chastisment of such as by more gentle admonition will not amend nor obeie the Church doth prooue that to binde in that place namelie importeth power of punishment to be executed on the offenders which way of chastisment is an open exercise of discipline giuen to the Apostles to be vsed at their discretions for the edifiyng of Christs Church Therefore as to binde there is as well an act of the proper power of iurisdiction as it is a function of prie sthoode to be exercised in the sacrament of penance so to loose soluere in that place though it may signifie to remit sinnes in waie of sacramentall confession yet it is more aptlie correspondent so the words that went before of binding which was not sinne but the paine and punishment for sinne whereby it must needes fillow that as to binde doth fignifie to charge that penitent person with some temporall paine so to loose must also meane to dissolue the bande which before was laied on him for present correction FVLKE Christ gaue no more iurisdiction or power of regiment to Peter pricipallie when he bestowed the keies of the kingdome of heauen vpon him then vpon the rest of the Apostles vnto whome he gaue the like and equall power of binding and loosing of opening and shutting the kingdome of heauen as he did to Peter The same thing verilie saith Saint Cyprien were the rest of the Apostles that Peter was indued with the same fellowspip both of honour and of power That the power graunted in the 18. of Matthew pertaineth moste properlie and principallie to the chaistisment or reconcilement of open offendours by discipline the circumstance of place affordeth no lesse as the text Iohn the 20. ratifieth the effect of their message in them that imbrace or refuse the doctrine of the Gospell And that the gouernours of the Church haue power by excommunication to binde and by absolution to loose vpon good ground and cause in both cases you neede not halfe these wordes to prooue it for we doe acknowledge and practize no lesse in the Churches of Christ where we haue gouernement likewise that the Church hath authoritie for triall of the parties repentance to enioyne some exercise of humiliation and to release the same or part thereof beeing satisfied with the manifest signes of repentance and submission it is also out of controuersie But of your sacrament of penance or satisfaction for sinnes by either discipline established Matthew the eighteene or power of remission of sinnes graunted in the text Iohn the twentie we shall neuer be agreed vntill you can make plaine demonstration out of the holie scriptures that either God hath instituted the one or alloweth the other which you shall neuer be able to doe ALLEN For this is a rule moste certein that all the bandes which the Church laieth vpon any offender be medicinable if the partie list to take them and may be loosed by the same power of the Church by which they were bounde before And therefore euer as mention is made in scripture of binding or which is all one punishing of sinnes there is also mention of the like power of loosing for Christ would not giue power to the Church to binde or correct sinnes but much more he would haue the Church resemble himselfe being her head in mercie and therefore gaue her alwaies power to loose that kinde of punishment which shee by her ministers had bounde or inoyned before For these two actes beeing answerable in conference and contrarietie muste necessarilie follow ech other and properlie to the like power and prerogatiue Then the one beeing giuen to the Apostles euen out of the sacrament of penance the other muste needes also by the like right be receiued S. Ambrose rebuketh much the Nouatians because they would haue the Church enioyne penance but they liked not that he should mercifullie release the same againe nor the penitents sinnes neither Dominus saith he par ius soluendi esse 〈◊〉 ligandi qui vtrumque pari conditione permisit ergo qui soluendi ius non habet nec ligandi babes Our Lord would haue the right of losing binding to be like for equally he gaue the power of both Therfore whosoeuer hath not power to loose he hath no power to binde If anie man then list follow the Nouatians he maie holde at his pleasure that it preteineth to the Churches iurisdiction to binde that which she can not loose againe contrarie to Christes expresse graunt made vnto her first in the person of Peter and then in the right of all the Apostles to whome when he had promised as well the keies of order as iurisdiction he said vnto them whatsoeuer you shall binde in earth it shal be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in earth it shal be loosed in heauen first giuing them thereby authorititie to punish and then to pardon And therefore as the sacrament of penance wherein sinnes be released or retained was grounded vpon the wordes of Christ spoken to the Apostles after his resurrection whereof we talked so much in the former treatise so the power of giuing pardon or punishing out of the sacrament by the vertue of the iurisdiction as the Pope and other Bishoppes now doe and alwaies haue done is founded moste fast vpon this
make satisfaction to the Church when there appeereth iust cause so to doe But let vs see how manie vntruthes you do boldlie aduouch which are besides this authoritie First that these Bishops had thought not to haue giuen peace to them that had fallen till the houre of death came But that is not so for they saie onelie they had determined that they should haue performed the penance that was enioyned for a long time vnto them vnto the ful except danger of infirmitie required to giue peace at the point of death Their wordes are these Totheir brother Cornelius Bishoppe of Rome Statueramus quidem iampridem frater charissimè participato inuicem nobiscum consilio vt qui in persecutionio 〈◊〉 supplantati ab aduersario lapsifuissent ac sacrificiis se illicitis maculassent agerent diu poenitentiam plenam si periculum infirmitatis vrgeret pacem sub ictu mortis acciperent Nec enim fas erat aut permittebat paterna pietas diuina clementia ecclesiam pulsantibus claudi dolentibus deprecantib speisulutaris subsidium denegari vt de saculo recedentes sine communicatione aut pace domini dimitterentur cùm permiserit ipse qui tegem dedit vt ligata in terris etiam in Coelis ligata essent solui autem possent illic que hîc prius in Ecclesia soluerentur Sed cum videamus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 infestationis appropinquare coepisse crebris atque assiduis ostensionibus admoneamur vt ad cert 〈◊〉 quod nobis hostis indicit armati parati simus plebem 〈◊〉 nobis diuina dignatione commissam exhortationibus nostris praeparemus omnes omnino milites Christi qui arma desiaerant praelium flagitant intra castra domini colligamus necessitate cogente censuimus eis qui de Ecclesia domini recesserunt sed poenitentiam agere lamentari ac dominum deprecari à primo lapsus sui die non destiterunt pacem dandam esse eos ad praelium quod imminet armari instrui oportere We had decreed indeed long since moste deer brother by aduise taken amongst our selues that such as in the trouble of persecution were supplanied by the aduersarie and fallen and had defiled themselues with vnlawfull sacrifices should doe full penance a long time and if daunger of infirmity did vrge they should receiue peace at the point of death For it was not lawfull neither did the Fatherlie pietie and clementie of God permit that the Church should be shut vp to them that knocke and that aid of healthfull hope should be denied to them that sorrowed and praied for it that departing out of the world they should be sent awaie without anie communicaiion or the Lordes peace seeing he hath permitted which made the lawe that those things that are bound in earth should also be bound in heauen that those things also might be loosed there which were loosed here in the Church But for as much as we see that the daie of another trouble beginneth to approch and are admonished by often and dailie shewings or visions that we should be armed and prepared vnto the battell which the enemie doth denounce vnto vs we should also prepare the people by gods voutsafing committed vnto vs with our exhortations and should gather in anie wise all the souldiers of Christ which call for armour and desire to fight into the Lordes campe necessity compelling vs we haue thought good that peace is to be graunted to them which haue departed out of the Lords Church but from the daie of their falling haue not ceased to shew repentance and to lament and to intreat our Lord and that they also ought to be armed and furnished against the battell which is at hand These are the words of Cyprian his fellow Bishops which you haue abridged at your pleasure if your note booke did not deceiue you to set down that you haue done as the very words of the epi stle Out of which you gather beside that I haue noted before power to inioyne penance and to release the same againe But where you saie they take vpon them cleerelie to inioyne what they list and how long they list that is not so but what is iust and conuenient and so likewise vpon iust cause they release the same or some parte thereof Againe you slaunder them in saying they take vpon thē to pardon after death for there is no such word or matter in all the Epistle They released and receiued them to the communion being in daunger of death but after death they receiued no man to the communion Nay they decreed that whereas Geminius Victor who had made Geminius Faustinus a clergie man his executor contrarie to the decrees of their synods there should be no oblation made for his falling a sleepe nor anie praier frequented in the Church in his name So farre of was it that they would pardon anie man after death when no repentance auaileth The scripture they doe rightlie applie for the establishing of the discipline of excommunication receiuing againe into the fellowship of the Church such as were fallen vpon their repentance as for the sacrament of penance you say wel they exercized discipline without it for such a sacrament they knew not but they claimed no iurisdiction to receiue offenders without good tokens of their repentāce as their words be manifest Where you saie they claimed iurisdiction by their onelie letters to giue them in absence peace pardon of their inioyned penāce as though their letter did resemble the Popes pardons in writing you speake beside the booke for they doe not giue peace by these letters onlie but signifie vnto Cornelius what they thought necessary to be done vpō what reasons left they might be thought to light in loosing the sinews of discipline toward so notorius offenders Your conclusion follow eth not vpon this example Cyprian and his fellow Bishope did vpon necessary cause release the time of penāce enioyned to certaine greeuous offenders and receiued them to the communion vpon certaine perswasion of their répentance therefore the Pope and his popelings maie giue pardon of paine due for sinnes remitted where hone is due and in the sacrament of penance when no such sacrament can be prooued out of the scripture neither doe you rightlie alledge Christes wordes as those holie Fathers did for they alledged them for the discipline of excommunication and absoluing which is necessarie to be vsed in the Church but you to maintaine a tirannical iurisdiction to loose that which other men haue bound without good cause as they did but for manie often times as they did neuer Therefore there is as great oddes betweene their practize of discipline and these Popes pardons as there is distance betweene their ages which is more then a thousand yeares ALLEN And now to make vp this matter for the true meaning of the said text which we now prooue to pertaine to the establishing of the true title of
time it selfe doth mooue them FVLKE These arguments I like well for they bewraie your infirmitie moste of al. And now for answere I saie that your Maior is false as weil as your Minor for the common Popish sense of pardons is as the wordes of them pretend that is to giue pardon not onelie of penance enioyned but also of sinnes Againe the gouernours of the Church as your Maior should haue beene framed but that you dare not come within the compasse of a lawfull syllogisme haue no power either to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted or to remit penance enioyned for sins remitted but of time of penance enioyned for satisfaction of the Church as we heard latelie out of Saint Augustine when the Church may be satisfied in shorter time Your Minor which you knew would not be admitted you take vpon you to prooue but you come nothing neere the matter for this is the point of your Minor which we denie that the Pope is the principall gouernour of Gods Church yea that he is any gouernour of Gods Church But if he were a Bishop of Rome as many were whose successour he claimeth to be he might be allowed in his Church of Rome to binde and loose enioyne and remit so farre as Christian discipline will beare but not to claime tiranie ouer all Churches as he doth Now you in your mishapen syllogisme in which you fumble diuerse matters together to deceiue the ignorant prooue that the Church and gouernours thereof haue power to release that which they haue power to enioyne which is not the matter in controuersie But whether they haue power to enioyne penance for sinnes remitted to answere Gods iustice or whether the Pope be a lawfull gouernour of the Church these and such like be matters of controuersie which you are neuer able to conclude in any lawfull and true syllogisme ALLEN And this argument shal be vnmooueable except they reiect with the Popes Pardons all manner of discipline as well of excommunication as other lesser satisfactions whereof we haue allreadie spoken as in deede to mainteine their falsehoode they must needes doe as also they shall be enforced to reprooue both the Councell of Nice all the holie Fathers and the generall practize of the Church and with them the expresse scriptures in which the worthie fruites of penance sharpe discipline iudging our selues obedience to our Prelates binding reteining of sinnes excommunicating and deliuering vp to Sathan be so often condemned It must needes be a miserabe doctrine of these Protestants which cannot be vpholden but by so shamefull shiftes and when we driue them into such straites in a matter where they thinke most may be saied for themselues and lest for our defence where shall they stand in our plaine causes in which almost our aduersaries confesse vs to haue the vantage of antiquitie and the preheminence of all 〈◊〉 Councells in the world But surelie I thinke falsehood hath so litle holde in all matters that it standeth onelie vpright whiles the contrarie is not seene or not vnderstanded which shee seeketh euer by all meanes shee may to couer and keepe close For the night shee loueth and in darkenes shee delighteth Doe but open the true sense of anie article by them impugned and it is more then halfe prooued and the enemies without argument vpon the sight of trueth in a manner discomfited So it fareth with them in our present cause which they haue long toyled and troubled in the mist of their phantasies and vpon false interpretation discharged amongst the simple sorte that that thing which in this sense as Gods Church that hath the ruling of the matter taketh it is so sure and so cleare in it selfe that I thinke they shall neuer be hable with honestie to speake against in any one parcell thereof FVLKE A boy that hath studied Logicke halfe a yeare may be ashamed to make such syllogismes and yet you are not ashamed to affirme before the worlde that this argument is vnmooueable except we reiect with the Popes pardons all manner of discipline And though it be manifest vnto the worlde that we practize all Godlie discipline which is according to the scriptures in requiring the worthie fruites of repentance iudgeing of our selues obedience to Christian Prelates practizing also the binding and reteining of sinnes excommunication and deliuering vp to Satan giuing that reuerence we ought to the holie Councell of Nice to all holie fathers and to the generall practize of the Church yet you blush not to write that we shall be enforced to reprooue all these It is not these beggerlie arguments M. Allen that shall enforce vs to these absurdities If you haue any better stuffe in store for Pardons bring it out for shame or ells talke no more of enforcement except it be in shrift where no man can controll you The rest to the ende of this Chapter conteining nothing but generall rayling and arrogant boasting after your accustomed manner I passe ouer as needelesse to be answered 〈◊〉 wise then it doth discouer it selfe in any wise mans iudgement That there be diuerse waies of temporall punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euery of which waies may be in some cases released in parte or in wholl by the Pardons of Popes and Bishops THE SIXT CHAP. ALLEN ANd yet to giue more light to the matter and the greater ouerthrow to falsehood let vs driue the cause forward and weigh with our selues the wholl state of things in this order First that there be three waies of punishment of mans sinnes after they be released in the sacrament of Penance besides the fruites of repentance which man chargeth himselfe withall and besides the punishment appointed for offences by the ciuill or temporall lawes whereof I now speake not the first the easiest is that penāce which is in secret confessiō inioyned by our Confessor which is lightlie as these times be much lesse then the nature of the offence for which it was prescribed requireth Yet because it is taken obedientlie and by our iudges prescription and in a sacrament in which God alwaies worketh much more grace then he doth by the selfe same things without the sacrament and because the penitent is readie to take more if more had beene prescribed in all these respects it standeth often if it be any thing correspondent to the crimes for which it was inioyned for a ful satisfaction before god when it is accomplished FVLKE In the first Chapter of this booke you charged the reader to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of this cause but the methode you follow is such as becommeth your cause namelie the methode of deceitfulnes which is that you call the compasse of your cause For true methode requireth to proceede from things more better knowne to things lesse knowne as it were to build vpon a good foundation but your manner is to assume that which is the chiefe matter in controuersie and thereupon to builde as it were vpon an imaginarie
lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life and therefore that Purgatorie bindeth no man but in respect of satisfying Gods iustice which was not answered here before either by our selues or by the Churches correction and enioyned penance FVLKE The cause you confesse to be waightie that the gouernours of the Church should release that paine which Gods hand hath laid vpon the offender for his temporall correction and therefore you must stand vpon it but as long as you stand you bring neither authoritie of scripture testimonie of antiquitie reasonable argument or sensible experience For first the ground of al your disputation is vtterlie false that God punisheth for sinnes remitted to satisfie his iustice And therefore though I graunt your first consideration which is that God punisheth vs for sinne the more because we punish not our selues yet I may not graunt your conclusion the argument whereof is nothing but your asseueration if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisfieth Gods righteousnes For no punishing or suffering of punishment can satisfie Gods iustice or anie part thereof but the punishment suffered by Christ who was beaten for our faults and striken for our offences and therefore his suffering is a full satisfaction for our vnrighteousnes Neither doth Saint Paull speak of anie discipline in the life to come when he exhorteth vs to iudge ourselues but sheweth that the punishment or iudgement which God executeth in this world vpon his children is a cha stisment that we be not condemned with the world as they that neither by doctrine nor by punishment are brought to repentance your next conclusion is that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him selfe doth not binde man but for lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life But this conclusion you your selfe do afterward denie when you affirme that bodelie punishment commeth vpon men for manie other causes then for correction for sinne onelie or a purgation of a mans life past Finallie if purgatorie do binde no man but in respect of satisfying gods iustice so long as it is certaine that Gods iustice is satisfied toward al his elect in the death and obedience of Christ it is out of doubt that purgacorie hath nothing to do with anie of Gods elect to whome Christ is giuen of his father to be wisdome righteousnes holines and redemption that as it is written he that reioyceth maie reioyce in the Lord. ALLEN Consider secondlie that he thatfully is discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life whether it be iust accomplishing of his due aud deserued penance or by remission of Gods Church and answering otherwise his lack therein the same person must of necessitie be also charged of Purgatory and alpaine in this life which els God could haue enioyned for sinne because this debt of Purgatorie rose vnto the penitent for the answer of Gods iustice and lack of paiment in this life the which being discharged to the honour of God and the reliefe of the partie there remaineth no bond of paine to come For debt is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie and I speake rather of 〈◊〉 then of other painer enioyned by God in this life because that is euer appointed to man onelie as a recompence of Gods iustice and as due correction for sinne remitted when of all other paines in this world whether it be sicknes or death no man can assuredlie saie that this or that bodelie punishment came vpon anie man as a correction for his sinnes onelie or as a purgation of his life past For somtimes suchthings folow the necessary of our corrupted nature sometimes they be for our proofe and exercise and sometimes for other causes But those kindes of punishments which God laieth vpon man onelie for correction and satisfying for his sins neuer fal vpon him after he be either iudged by his owne teares or the Churches sufficient satisfaction enioyned or els vpon reasonable cause remitted The like afflictions maie continue in anie person after the bonde of them be remooued or maie be giuen afterward but for the satisfaction of his owne sinnes or anie debt proceeding thereof they be not because the debt is discharged in so much that I dare be bolde to saie if anie man were sick by Gods appointment for that cause onelie to satisfie for his sinnes remitted before in the sacrament that he should straight recouer vpon the discharge of the debt which he did owe to God for his iustice if that into mitie were for no other cause but that onelie as it maie be for manie mo wherof no man can casilie iudge FVLKE He that is fullie discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life by free remission of his sinnes through the satisfaction of Iesus Christ must needes be dischar ged of Purgatorie except you will saie that accomplishing of penance and remission of the Church is of more force then the suffering of Christ and the remission of God For debt as you saie truelie is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie But God sorgiueth our sinnes freelie and Christ hath paied the redemption for them iustlie as all the scriptures do testifie Therefore there remaineth no bond of paine to come But now you render a reason why you speake of purgatorie rather then of other paines enioyned by God in this life And that is this that purgatorie is neuer suffered but sor satisfying for sinne onely where other paines of this life maie be for other causes Marke how this geare hangeth together First you haue no shew of proofe that there remaineth anie paine due to satisfie Gods iustice for sinnes remitted but the afflictions of this life and now you confesse that they maie be and often are for other causes How prooue you then that euer they be for this pretended cause namelie for satisfying of Gods iustice for sinnes remitted Well let that passe Seeing the afflictions of this life were brought to prooue that there be three diuerse waies of temporal punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euerie of which waies maie in some cases be released in parte or in wholl by the Popes pardons how happeneth it that we can haue no experience of the Popes pardonsin releasing any man of the temporall afflictions of this life as sicknes imprisonment c You answer that these bodilie afflictions maie be for other causes so flie quite from your holde yet that you may stand in a corner pelt your enemies you turne again say that you dare be bold to say if any man were sick by gods appoint ment for that cause onely c. that he should straight waie recouer vpon the discharging of that debt which he did owe to gods iustice but a pardon wil discharge that debt therfore a pardō wil make him recouer This I confes is boldly said of you But where is the experience shew one man
none can be bound or absolued but of his owneiudge we thinke that the foresaid remissions doe profit them onelie to whome that they might profit their owne iudges haue spirituallie or speciallie graunted Also the glosse vpon this decretall the author whereof liued after the Later an Councell saith that it was an olde complaint and yet in his daies verie doubtfull to what purpose these remissions or pardons were profitable remissiones ad quid valeant vetus est querela adhuc tamen satis dubia and rehearseth foure seuerall opinions concerning the validitie of them Some saie they auaile onelie towarde God but not toward the church Secondlie other saie that they auaile toward the Church but not toward God Thirdlie other saie that as they are giuen they auaile both toward God and toward the Church And the fourth saith that they auaile onclie to the remission of that penance which is negligentlie omitted To which the glosse addeth his opinson agreeing fullie with none of them all nor with the later Canonists Among which opinions you haue patched vp your wauering sētence of the validity or inualidity of pardons in this Chapter This diuersity of opinions among the Papists themselues argueth that the doctrine of pardons was verie raw and not halse digested in those daies The agreeablenes thereof with the worde of God and the practize of the primitiue Church when it shall be shewed we shal thinke better of them in the meane time you must bring better proofe out of the scriptures for them then you doe for Popish Bishops blessing out of the 10. of Saint Matthew or ells we shall haue litle cause to esteeme them more then it ALLEN Truelie that holypeace which Christ gaue to his Apostles at his comming into them at his departure from them and ells as 〈◊〉 entreth vpon any holie action signified nothing ells but an agreement and peace of mans soull with God and did no doubt purge them from their dailie infirmities which we call veniall sinnes and the bonde of all paine as it may be thought due for the same that in the presense of Gods maiestie sinne might cease and the parties appeere cleane afore his face that had nospot of sinne in himselfe at all as by the saied peace yet giuen to the worthie receiuers by holie Bishopps ministerie some like effect doth surelie ensue I vse this terme of peace when I speake of pardons not because they are preciselie meant in the action of giuing peace common to Christ his Apostles but because I see the olde fathers lightlie call that peace which we now call pardoning and perchance they did allude to that which Christ willed his Disciples to bestow on euerie householde for a kind of blessing Which no doubt was some great benefite and so great that our Master signified vnto them that many should be vnworthie of it and that the fruite thereof should redound to them-selues Which caused both Bishops of olde for Saint Augustine maketh mention therof to giue their blessings and euerie man humblie to require the same on their knees whereby surelie some spirituall grace was receiued and remission either of veniall trespaces or paine due vnto for̄mer sinnes giuen Let apish Camites here mocke and mow at their Mother as they customablie doe whiles the obedient children the discreete and deuout of Gods Church thinke it an high point of wisedome onelie to consider the maruelous direction of our fathers waies in the doctrine of discipline and awe of Gods relgion FVLKE That peace which Christ gaue to his Apostles was the quietnes of conscience reconciled to god and discharged of all sinnes and the paine due to satisfie gods righteousnes for them and the same peace did Christ send his Apostles to offer preach and wish to all them that would receiue it which if they refused became vnprofitable to them But the Popish Bishops blessing which consisteth in shaking his fingers and murmering some wordes perhapps not vnderstood of the people whome they neuer teach what the peace of conscience meaneth is no better then a vilde mockery of the peace that Christ gaue and willed his Apostles to offer where they became Whereas you alledge Saint Augustine for the antiquitie of the Bishops blessing it is a friuolous matter For he maketh no other mention but that after earnest praierhad bin made for patience and constancie of faith in one that was the next daie with daunger of his life to be cut for a fistula both by the partie himselfe a Bishop and many other Godlie persons then present that they arose from praier accepta ab episcopo benedictione discessimus and hauing receiued blessing of the Bishop we departed How can the superstitious blessing of Popish Bishops be resembled to this but onelie in the name of blessing For here is no requiring of it on knees nor any opinion of remission of sinnes by it but onely a Christian salutation or farewell by praier mentioned which all Godlie Bishops and elders doe in our Church vse euen at this daie speciallie in dimission of a Godlie congregation gathered to heare the preaching to praier or participation of the sacraments or such holie purposes which all Christians do esteeme as it becommeth them without making an Idoll of the minister or trusting in the ceremonie confirming their faith in God by the praior and blessing of his seruants in his name in whome is all their hope trust and ioye reposed That the Bishops beeing the highest ministers of Gods Church and namelie the Pope as the principall of the rest may onelie lawfullie giue Pardons and in what sense the soules depatted may be releiued by the same THE 11. CHAP. ALLEN OF the necessarie disposition of them that should effectuallie receiue benefit by the pardons of the Church and of the right intent of them that should giue the same wee haue already sufficiently spoken And now perchance some may thinke it necessarie that it should be opened brieflie in whome this authoritie of releasing the paines inioyned for sinne doth principallie consist Whereof I shall with better will bestow a few wordes because we shall haue occasion thereby to open the common sense of a wholl Councel both learned and godly touching the matter of Pardons in the iudgement whereof assuredlie proceeding from the holy ghost we may with safetie take our rest Of the lawfull minister therefore of these remissions the scripture in precise tearmes prescribeth nothing though the power of binding and loosing whereupon the matter standeth is prooued properlie to be an act of the keie namelie of iurisdiction and externall regiment which agreeth not to the simple Priestes hauing no further iurisdiction but in the secret court of mans conscience Wherupon as also by the vsage of all ages and by the prescription of the lawe it is prooued that Bishops onely or such as haue their authority for the execution of their office may lawfullie giue remission of satisfactions appointed for sinnes remitted Neither were it
building But as it was last inuented for none of the auncient Church for a thousand yeares and more euer heard of it so you haue done well to thrust it vnto the last end of your booke And first you beginne with an obiection vpon your owne ground that for answering of Gods iustice there remaineth a temporall paine after sinne remitted But because the obiection is such as you are neuer able to answer so well your principles of popery hang one vpon another you couer the hardest point and will not let it appeare namelie that Gods iustice requireth punishment of the partie him selfe that offended for satisfying his iustice which was not satisfied by the death and obedience of Christ which if it be true then can there be no remission by any other meanes sauing the iustice of God but by the parties owne suffering Yet let vs see how you auoid the obiection io fauourablie set downe for your seife to answer you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise satisfied by the aboundant satisfactiō made by Christ vpon the crosse and by the merites of his saints If this be true then is the other principle false that Gods iustice requireth temporall punishment of the partie for the recompence of Christs satisfaction and saints merites is not the parties owne punishment wherefore as in the obiection you runne from Christes most perfect satisfaction so in the answere you runne from the obiection which is no answer or satisfaction The scripture is plaine that the blood of Christ purgeth vs from all sinne and Christ by one oblation hath made perfect for euer those that are sanctified he hath once entred into the holie place by his owne blood and found eternall redemption The satisfaction for sinne the purging of vnrightcousnes the perfecting of the saints and euerlasting redemption can abide no reseruation of punishment either temporall or eternall in which the iustice of god is throughlie answered by the obedience and suffering of Christ whose stripes hauing healed vs there remaineth no suffering of our part for satisfying of his iustice And you confesse that there is a sufficient value in the suffering of Christ for the taking awaie of all temporall punishment if it be well applied by the Pope So that Christes redemption was but a power of redeeming and not an act of redemption a power depending vpon the will of man to applie according to his pleasure as you were wount to speake and not according to Gods determination and eternal election And so you robbe Christ of the effect of his death passion by which he obteined eternal redemptiō for al gods elect to enrich the pope with a treasure infinit and vnspendable for that word youlent me before which he might bestow and dispense at his pleasure But let vs a litle enter into your storehouse see what tresure there is and how you came by it First you tell vs of the infinite abilitie and the inestimable valew of euerie drop of Christes bloode c. to satisfie all debt due for all sinne and al paine for the same and yet you alow to the act and effect of his bloodie sacrifice the value but of halfe a drop denying the same to haue satisfied Gods iustice for temporall paine all the rest you claime for the treasure of the Popish Church which dreame was neuer hard of before the Iubilie graunted by Boneface the 8. in the glosse wherof it was first deuised where it is saied that pardons are founded vpon the merits of Christ and taken out of it Passio namque Christi excessiua fuit vnde excessus vocatur in Luca vbi dicitur quod in transfiguratione Christi apparuerunt Moses Elias cùm eo dicebans excessum quem completurus erat in Ierusalem vnica enim guita sanguinis tam preciost suffecisset pro redemptione totiu mundi Nam propter coniunctionem humanitatis cùm diuinitate 〈◊〉 passio Christi perpessa pro redemptione nostra habebat precium infinitum Noluit autem Christus quod excessus isie frustra fuisset quod de nihilo nobis 〈◊〉 sed volait quod esset Thesaurus Ecclesiae per suum vicarium Ro pontificem pro fidelibus loco tempore dispensandus dispensatur autem cum eis indulgentiae conceduntur For the passion of Christ was excessiue whereof also in Saint Luke it is called an excesse where it is said that in the transfiguration of Christ appeered Moses and Elias with him and they spake of the excesse which he should fullfil at Ierusalem For one drop of so precious blood might haue sufficed for the redemption of the wholl worlde For because of the coniunction of the humanity with the diuinitie neuer so small a suffering of Christ suffered for our redemption had an infinit price But Christ would not that this excesse should be in vaine and that it should serve vs for nothing but he would that it should be the treasure of the Church to be bestowed by his vicar the Bishop of Rome in time and place for the faithfull and it is bestowed when pardons are graunted to thē Marke vpon what text this treasure is grounded and how clarkely it is expounded Moses and Elias talked with Christ of his departure out of this life which he should finish at Ierusalem this departure being termed in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Latine excessum this Doctor interpreteth to be an excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ the ouerplus whereof lest it should be in vaine and serue for nothing is made the treasure of the Church to be dispensed by the pope But who wil graunt such excesse or superfluitie of the passion of Christ as you imagine or that neuer so small a suffering of Christ had beene sufficient for the redemption of the wholl worlde which if it were graunted seeing Christ from his infancie snffered many things for vs euerie one of them might haue beene our redemption and so the sacrifice of Christs death was vnnecessarie for our redemption So that his blood shed in his circumcision and much more in his scourging crowning with thorne had bin infinitely more thē enough although he had not suffered death and shed his blood on the crosse Againe as it doth moste excellentlie set forth the iustice and mercie of God to the euerlasting comfort of the faithfull that Christ by his obedience and suffering did moste perfectlie satisfie the one and moste plentifullie purchase the other to the eternall redemption and euerlasting felicitie of all Gods elect so it is against the iustice of god that he should require that his sonne should suffer infinitlie more then was needeful to answere his iustice work a perfect redēption as this glossary dreame of the Popish Churches treasure doth imagine Neither doth the argument of the coniunction of the humanitie with the diuinitie prooue anie such matter But if that were graunted by what scripture is the infinite ouerplus made a treasure of
content to ride on an Asse the Apostles to goe barefot in planting the Gospell But whereon 〈◊〉 the pope and how be his Cardinals feete surbaighted in going barefote to preach the Gospell Although I knowe not where he findeth in holie scripture that the Apostles went barefote in planting the Gospell Their trauell was great into all partes of the world though they had bene well shood yea booted and ridden on horsebacke But if the comparison be made between the ministers of the Gospell and Antichrist the Pope and his proud prelates whether in pacience humility and mildnes of behauiour be more like to Christ and his Apostels we doubt not our cause though the triall were before verie partiall iudges Well howsoeuer it were you should haue suffered Martyrdome rather then to haue resisted and murthered other but that you would not for you sought to liue licentiouslie and had no hope of eternall life after this Among so manie thousand as suffered martyrdome most quietlie without resistance when they were imprisoned tormented and condemned by those which had power to kil their bodies he can finde no examples of pacience and hope of eternall life except all the Protestants in the world will giue there throtes to be cut and suffer themselues to be murthered contrarie to lawe and liberties established by lawfull authoritie and that by priuat persones and bloodie Tirants as the poore Christians were by the Duke of Guyse at Vassi and so should all the rest in Fraunce haue beene if God had not stirred vp diuers Princes and noble men at the request of the Queene Mother to oppose themselues against the furious and trayterous attempts of that bloodie tyrant who abusing the minoritie of the King whome he toke captiue with his mother vsurped moste vnlawfull power against the King the Queene the estates and all the realme Frarine therefore fareth with vs as that seditious Ruffian of Rome who sued an action against his enemie whome he had wrongfullie wounded because he receiued not his weapon deepe enough to death Christ himselfe the paterne of patience saide to the seruant which moste iniuriouslie smote him when he stoode in iudgement before the high priest why smitest thou me if I haue spoken euill beare witnes of euill that is deale with me as order of iustice requireth And Saint Paule his faithfull disciple could not forbeare that painted wall Ananias who pretending to sit in iudgement according to the lawe did contrarie to the lawe commaund him to be smitten and should the Protestants in Fraunce hauing both authoritie and power to defend themselues suffer the Duke of Guyse a priuate man and a straunger with his complices to smite of all their heades as it were with one stroke and not rather to oppose themselues against his furie not onelie for defence of the gospell but also for the maintenance of the lawe and the libertie of their nation There resistance therefore was not treason rebellion crueltie as this declaimer raueth butobedience iustice and authoritie to withstand treason crueltie and rebellion Yet againe he repeateth that lack of libertie was no iust cause of these warres seing euerie where they might fill their paunches carrie a sister wife about with them toule Nuns out of cloysters filthilie abuse them still he speaketh as though none were Authors Captaines or Souldiers of these warres but such licentious ministers or as though so manie princes noble men gentlemen and valiant souldiers as serued in those warres had no other quarrell but to maintaine the gluttonie and lecherie of a fewe lewde ministers of which sort yet he is not able to name one Neuertheles he saith that moste commonlie euerie Apostate Monke had his Nun at his toile and holie Kate hir holie mate Although the worlde knoweth that this might better be verefied of Clauster all Monkes and Nunnes of limiting friers and their holie sisters But srier Luthers pleasure was if we beleeue this man that his Ladie Venus court should be franke and free if the wife saith he will not doe it let the maide supplie her place The will of God commaundeth and necessetie bindeth as well to haue carnall copulation as to eate and drinke See how malice draweth all wordes to the worste meaning Luther in his booke of Babilonicall captiuitie speaking in the person of Assuerus taking Hester his maide to wife when Vasti refused to come to him hath some such wordes as he reporteth If the wife will not let the maide come and possesse her place meaning nothing els but the diuorcing of Vasti and the marrying of Hester but nothing as the Papists cauill that a man hauing a wife maie abuse his maide The other saying of the necessitie of carnall copulation is spoken onelie of them that haue not the gift of continencie for whome marriage is the lawfull and necessarie remedie ordained by God to auoide sinne To conclude this first part he saith it was neither religion nor gospell nor Gods quarrell they meant to further but malice against the pope as Luther in an epistle ad argentin confesseth But Luther neuer confessed any such matter he might well acknowledge his iust hatred against the Pope as the enemie of Christ and so doe all true Christians And if the estates of France had raised warre for malice against the Pope they would haue sent a power into Italie to haue annoyed him or his possessions there as Charles the 5. and Philip his Catholike sonnes haue done for the loue they bare to the Pope As for the restitution of Christian faith wel neere worne out there was no neede he saieth to laboure For the Church of God the seat and piller of truth had alwaies without force battaile kept that most recurently Then it followeth the Church of Rome was not the Church of God for which Christ praied Ihon. 17. To which he promiseth the holie Ghost Ihon. 14. In which are foūd so few sparkes of true faith which mainteineth so many grosse errours eontrarie to the expresse wordes of God conteined in the holie scriptures as often and moste cleare demonstrations hath beene made To be short if the cause of these warrs taken in hand be demaunded which he calleth Tragicall and cruell doinges you shall haue a short answear saith he with Mum Budget except they will alleadge perhappes the ambition auarice boldenes wantones of certaine loose Friers as though he could be ignorant of the publike protestation of the Prince of Condy and a great part of the nobilitie of Fraunce set forth when they beganne the first warres In which they neither alledge the fond surmised causes by Frarine nor mumble them ouer in Mum Budget but plainlie declare the reasonable sufficient and necessarie causes which mooued them to that attempt The copie whereof is yet extant in storie to be seene and read Now is he come to the second part wherein he will prooue that as without iust cause so without authoritie and commission they haue made warres And
first he saith though Kinges for light or no iust causes making warres are greatlie in fault yet the soldiours are excusable because they obeie lawfull authority But in these warres where no Magistrate biddeth them strike all are priuate men or rather all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and most cruel murtherers so with many needles words he runneth out into the common place of treasō rebelliō in which whatsoeuer cause be pre tended the war is vnlawful because it wanteth lawfull authority But such was not the cause of the protestāts warres in France where the King being vnder age and brought into captiuitie against his wil by a traitor by whōe also the edict made by the authority of the three estates of the Realme was violated witha moste barborous and cruel slaughter ofinnocent men being in exercise of their Religion as it was lawfull for them to doe by the Princes of his bloode and other nobles called also thereunto by the often letters of the Queene his mother to deliuer him and her from captiuitie was sought to be set at libertie his lawes to be obserued and the publike quiet of the realme to be restored and so Frarines question is answered whence came you who sent you by what authoritie doe you all these things The princes and noble men that ioyned in leagu to withstand the tirannie of the Guisians haue declared their commission in a publike instrument set forth to the vew of the world the copie of the Queene mothers letters are set forth in storie for euerie man to reede The originalles remaine with the prince of Condyes heires and haue beene seene of manie But what shall Guise answer if he be called to shew his commission by what authority he slew the poore people at Vassie by what authoritie he seased vpon the persons of the King and the Quene his mother against their willes as was manifest by the Queenes great pro testation against the violence and iniurie and the yong Kings teares By what authoritie he remooued them from the pallace of Fountaine de Bleu first vnto the prison of Melun castle and afterward to Paris a place indeed more meere for a King if the violence of the enemy had not made that also a prison For not somuch the place as the restraint of libertie maketh a prisoner It is certaine that Guyse had no commission no authoritie no lawfull power to doe these thinges nor whatsoeuer he did afterward abusing the name of the captiue King and the authoritie of the King of Nauarre contrarie to the edict and true meaning of them that laide gouernment vpon him As for Beza and the ministers of the reformed Church whome he faineth to haue beene dombe when they were demaunded by the Cardinall of Lorraine in the assemblie at Poysie answered for their vocation first to the Sorbonist Espensius who proponed those questions that they were lawfullie called and approoued in the Churches where they serued And the next daie more at large to the shame and confusion of the Popish cleargie and their vnlawfull and simoniacall vocation contrarie both to the olde Canons of the Church and to the authoritie of the holie scriptures declaring also that as the ceremonie of imposition of handes by the ordinaries as they call them is not allwaies needfull in an extraordinarie calling So miracles are not alwaies necessarie to approoue an extraordinary vocation as the examples of Esay Zacharie Amos and others of the Prophets declareth But Martin Luther whome Frarine maketh our chiefe Apostle and patriarch he taketh vpon him to know verie well what he was whence he came and what authoritie he had First his name was not Luther but Luder which signifieth a slaue or knaue but that for shame he changed that filthie name of his He would make vs beleeue that he was driuen to do the same that Pope Os porci or Hogges snowte did which turned his name to Sergius of whome all Popes since saue one haue taken the custome to chaunge there names which thing if Luther had done he had done no worse thē the pope had giuē him example to do It is a folish quarrel that is picked against a mans name which he hath receiued of his elders although the name of Luther being of honest signification needed no such change for who will thinke that Luther knewe not his owne name as well as Frarine But it it is a greater matter that he was begotten of a spirit Incubus as the common report goeth saith Frarine For that he was borne at Islebium in Saxonie I trust it is no reproch to him more thē for Frarine to be borne at Antwerpe in Brabant But is Frarine such a great philosopher to beleeue the common report of Luthers conception by a spirit Incubus which is impossible And whoe should be the authors of such a report But such impudent wretches as shewed more malice then wit in deuising such a monstrous lie as neuer was nor euer could be And yet what papist is there of any acount which fauoreth not this foolish fable which although in their conscience they know it neither was nor can be true yet are not onelie content that it runne among fooles as a currant argument but also offer it in their writinges to the ignorant as a matter sufficient to discredit Luther and all his teaching But to proceed that he studied the ciuill law when he was yong that he was mooued to become an Augustine frier by terror of his companione slaine with thunder or lightning if it were neuer so true what needed it to be rehearsed seeing it maketh nothing to the lawfullnes of his calling or to the discredit of his doctrine But at last saith he he was made Doctor with shame enough for he came to that degree with the monie that was bequethed vnto an other man whom with the helpe of his prior he be guiled If Luther were not sufficientlie knowne to the world to haue beene excellentlie well learned he would insinuate thathe were like a doctor Bullatus which bought his doctorshippe of the Pope for mony But seeing for the solemnitie of that degree in schooles their is vsuall some expences he chargeth Luther at the least to haue come by that monie wrongfullie and as it were by theft They that write the storie of his life affirme that the Prince his soueraigne did beare the charges of his cōmencement And this slaunder of Frarine as it is void of profe so hath it not so much as anie likelie hood of truth For Luther being at that time a frier could possesse nothing in proper no more could anie other frier possesse anie monie that was bequeathed vnto them Now if the prior of the house did defraie the charges of Luthers commencement with the legacie that was giuen to anie other of his bretheren it was all one as if he had done it out of there common boxe for friers possesse nothing in proper but in cōmon the dispositiō wherof pertaineth to
the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza cōtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe
notis corporaliter siue ignotis Omnes enim mali spiritualiter à bonis seiuncti sunt Ecce hic dicit peccata dimitti vel teneri à sanctis viris tamen spiritum sanctum ea dimittere dicit quod maiori consideratione dignum est idem etiam dicit quod Deus per se vel per sanctos suos tantùm dimittit peccata ait enim sic sacramentum gratiae dat Deus etiam per malos ipsam vero gratiam non nisi per seipsum vel pcr sanctos suos ideo remissionem peccatorum vel per seipsum facit velper ipsius columbae membra quibus ait si quibus dimiseritis aimittentur Ecce quà m varia à doctoribus traduntur super his in hactanta varietate quid tenendum Hoc sane discere sentire possumus quod solus Deus dimittit peccata retinet tamen Ecclesiae contulit potestatem ligands soluendi Sed aliter ipse soluit vel ligat aliter Ecclesia Ipse enim per se tantùm dimittit pecca tum quia enim animam mundat ab interiore macula à debito aeternae mortis soluit Non autem hoc sacerdotibus concessit quibus tamen tribuit potestatem soluendi ligandi id est ostendendi homines ligatos vel solutos vnde Dominus leprosū sanitati priùs per se restituit deinde ad sacerdotes misit quorum iudicio ostenderetur mundatus When sinnes are forgiuen to him that is truelie turned to God they are forgiuen by them to whome he him selfe by true conuersion is ioyned The holie ghost forgiueth them which is giuen to all the Saints which are knit together in charitie whether they know one another corporallie or not Likewise when any mans sinnes are reteined they are reteined by them from whome he is disioyned by prauitie of heart whether they be corporally knowne or vnknowne For all euill men are spirituallie separated from good men Beholde here he saieth that sinnes are forgiuen or reteined by the Saints or holiemen Ana'yet he saieth that the holy ghost doth forgiue them and that which is worthie of greater consideration the same Doctor also saith that God by himselfe or by his Saints onelie remittesh sinnes For thus he saieth The sacrament of grace god giueth euen by euilmen but grace it selfe not but by himselfe he causeth or by the members of that doue to whome he saith if to any ye shal forgiue they shal be forgiuen Beholde how diuerse thinges are deliuered by the Doctors concerning these matters and in this so great variety what is to be holden This truelie we may saie and thinke that onely God forgiueth sinnes and reteineth and yet he hath giuen power to the Church of binding and loosing but otherwise doth he him selfe bind and loose otherwise the Church For he him selfe by him selfe onelie forgiueth sinne because both he clensith the soul from the inward spot and looseeh from the debt of eternall death But this he hath not graunted to the priests to whome notwihstanding he hath giuen power of binding and loosing that is to saie of declaring men to be bound or loosed whereupon our Lord did first by him seifere store the Leper to health asterwards sent him to the priests by whose iudgement he might be declared to be clensed Thus writeth the Master of the sentences with more to this effect In your second argument brought to prooue that penance is a sacrament I denie the Antecedent that there is any wordes of institution to prooue your sacrament of penance Where you feare vainlie least we will shortly seeke to baptize by preaching as we wil absolue you onelie by the same you declare nothing but your harde conceit of vs. For we are olde enough to know the difference of the ministerie of the worde and the sacrament a sunder To compare vs with Nouatus either in the one point or in the other you haue no cause in the world but your owne malicious and slaunderous humor For we doe not admit the power of remission where we list but wheresoeuer God hath graunted it and in what manner soeuer he hath appointed it to be exercised We are readie to receiue the publike penitents that with plentie of teares and other outward signes doe testifie the inward sorowe of their hearts conceiued for their greeuous and notorious sinnes Yea we receiue them whose offences being not openlie knowne doe neuertheles secretlie bewaile their sinnes And therefore that you saie of pampering mans will and pleasure where Gods worde and writing should be onely followed seeke among your owne sect where it may take place For sinnes openlie committed or knowne to be committed we holde that they ought with open confession to be chastised for satisfying the Church that is offended by them As for sinnes committed in secret whereby our neighbour is neither hurt nor offended it is sufficient that they be acknowledged with hartie repentance before god if the offendours conscience be not troubled with further doubtfulnes about them In which case we holde that it is conuenient that he should consult with the learned minister for his further comfort and satisfaction out of the worde of God concerning the remission of his sinnes ALLEN And therefore the manner and order of Penance hath bin diuerse in sundry ages and countries sometimes solemne which could be but once taken in al a mans life somtimes not solemne but yet open and publike which might be iterated as ofien as mans mortal sinnes so required other times priuat onelie betwixt the priest and the penitent which is now vsed and long hath beene in a manner gencrallie thorough the wholl worlde Of all which diuersities we will not now intreat nor for our matter the consideration of them is virie needfull seing that in all sortes and in euerie of the sundry formes of doing penance this is a most firme principle that the penitent had remission of sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes Therefore the substance of the matter being one of the diuersitie of vse and circumstances which maie be according to the time and manners of men altered we need not much to care Baptisme was once vsed with solemnitie at two or three principall feastes of the yeare for the time so required then and the condition of the people yet the same sacrament of Baptisme ministerea'now priuatlie as occasion serueth by the birth of euerie childe is of the same force and grace now that it was then Wherein to reprehend the wisdome of Gods Church that is assuredlie ruled by the spirit of God is ouermuch wantonnes of will and sedition not tolerable FVLKE There hath beene diuerse manners and orders appointed for the punishment of sins and for triall of the offenders true repentance conuersion vnto god but all these prooue not any sacrament of penance The manner which the Popish Church doth vse in the exercise of this pretensed sacrament is partly
tyrannical while you inforce men to confesse their secret sinnes to a popish Priest where of there is no commaundement in the holie scriptures and partlie it is an encouragement vnto securitie a pampering in sinne while the fraile and foolish man is persuaded that by the heard confession absolution receiued of the Priest he is cleerelie discharged of his sinnes and may be toti es quoties with a litle pretie penance enioyned him for satisfaction But it is a firme principle you saie that in all formes of penance the penitent had remission of his sinnes for which he did penance no otherwise but by the ministerie of the Priestes A heauie case where the Priestes were straight laced and would retaine sinnes where God was readie to forgiue What is this els but to restraine the mercie of God to the ministerie of vnskilfull men At what howre so euer the sinner doth truelie repent the Lord remitteth his sinnes But man can not allwaies see or by outward tokens iudge of true and inward repentance Therefore it is a firme principle that God often times forgaue sinnes to the penitent otherwise then by the ministerie of the Prieste Men maie erre in exercising outward discipline but Gods remission is not staied vpon mans error Where you conclude that as the diuerse vse of baptisme hindreth not but that in substance it is the same so the sacrament of penance notwithstanding the diuers formes and manners in which it hath or is now vsed Your comparison is nought For baptisme is a sacrament of Christes institution your popish penance can neuer be prooued to be a sacrament Therfore your argument à paribus is of no force Whether the Church did well to restraine baptisme to certaine solemne feastes I will not here dispute That remission of sinnes hath beene ioyned often both in the law of nature and Moses to some externall ceremonies and sacrifices whereof in the olde law Priestes were appointed ministers THE NINTH CHAP. LEt no man vpon consideration of these thinges either reprehend or maruatle at the counsel and ordinance of god that he being hable to gouerne his creatures and amend or correct pardon or punish euerie mans misdeedes by him-selfe without all helpe and seruice of anie other his subiect natures that it pleaseth his wisdome for all that to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministerie in sundrie sacramentes In sober consideration of these thinges mans reason maie well be satisfied if he can conceiue that it is the honour and estimation of our kinde with almightie God our maker that he gouerneth not our affaires onelie by him selfe in his owne person but also that we be ruled and led in the waies of Gods will by one an other that the maiestie of God which most appeareth in regiment and in remitting of sinnes in correcting of 〈◊〉 and iudgement might be cleerelie seene in our kinde amongst our selues to our comfort and Gods no disgracing nor dishonour at all And therefore Saint Augustine saith of the like doubt of some in his daies which would not be taught by man but by Gods owne spirit Abiecta esset humana conditio si per homines hominibus verbum suum Deus ministrare nolle videretur Quomodo enim verum esset quod dictum est Templum enim Dei sanctum est quod estis vos si de humano templo Deus responsa non redderet Mans state were too base if God would not that his word should be ministred by one man to another For how should this truelie be spoken the temple of God is holie the which temple you are if God gaue not answers by mans temple This is one great respect surelie especialle since the second person in Trinitie tooke vpon him our nature by whome the woorthines of mankinde is much increased and more fit then euer before to serue ech other as in the workes that be diuine and properlie by nature belonging to God himselfe An other respect why we should by externall sacraments and mans ministerie receiue grace and remission of sinnes is the singular respect had by God of our infirmitie as well of minde as bodie For the minde requireth in her assured deseruing of damnation some externall token by which she maie haue good cause to hope of mercie and grace For where I know and assure myselfe that originall sinne is remitted by baptisme when I haue once receiued the same then I am in no further doubt of my selfe nor anie damnation for that sinne which by the promis of God I haue learned shall be washed awaie thereby as by an externall instrument in which he conueigheth that benefit to my soule if my soule by indisposition and unaptnes do not hinder the assured fruit thereof So where after Baptisme mans life is often defiled by greeuons sinnes and God highlie displeased therefore what an infinite treaskre it is and how great a comfort to haue an assured helpe therof wrought so by mans ministery in a visible action that I maie know sauing for mine owne lack of connenient disposition my sinnes to be forgiuen and Gods mercie and fauour to be obteined againe We maie conceiue easily what a passing comfort it was to the parties that heard sensiblie by the outward wordes of Christes owne mouth thy sinnes be forgiuen thee The said persons beleeuing in Christ and lamenting for their sinnes past might haue had some hope of remission by Christ though he had said no such thing vnto them yet he that perceiueth not what comfort of conscience what inward ioy of minde what reioysing of the spirit they must needes haue that had Christes testimonie and blessing in plaine termes for the same purpose he seeth nothing at all FVLKE That God hath vsed in all ages to testifie and assure men of his grace and mercie to the forgiuenes of their sinnes by outward signes and sacraments and that for diuerse good causes we are allwaies readie to acknowledge But that it pleaseth his wisdome as you saie to forgiue sinnes no otherwise in his Church but by externall orders ioyned to mans ministery in sundry sacraments we do vtterlie denie For that were to tie the grace of God to the outward sacraments which is most free to worke either with them or without them The penitent publicane an example of persons that seeke iustification had his sinnes forgiuen him by the onelie grace and mercie of God taken holde of by faith without al external orders ioyned to mans ministerie in any sacrament For if we acknowledge our sins he is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes And Iesus Christ is our aduocate with the father to obtaine remission of sinnes And if anie man shal see his brother sinne a sinne not to death he shall ask he will giue life vnto him that sinneth not vnto death By all which testimonies and an hundreth more that are euery where to