yea and three National Councels from Pope Stephen in the yeere 250 i Bellar. de Ro. Pont. l. 2. c. 25. 46. Lindan panopl. l. 7. c. 89. Possevinus in Apparat. titul Carthag the Bishops of Carthage Schismatized from all Popes of Rome for an hundred yeres together about the yeere 409. lastly k Bellar. de Ro. Pont. l. 2. c. 31. Idem de Matri c. 15. art 2. the Greeke Church cut off from the Roman for 300. yeeres are sufficient testimonies there may be a true Church of God though seuered and diuided from the Pope of Rome And here in this kingdome it was no Protestant but Popish Bishops that concluded in a Nationall Synode l Institut of a Christian set foorth anno 1537. by Authority our King might if he pleased create a Pope of his owne in his own kingdoms and dominions and yet remaine a member of the Catholike Church Pap. Well the best is you haue beene so tedious in your answeres that I haue I thank God forgotten all that you haue said for your reformed Church Prot. But I will helpe that quickly by summing vp of all into these 12. Positions 1 We haue a Church as hauing Doctrine Saluation Discipline 2 It is a portion of the Catholique Church 3. It hath a Spirituall vnion of doctrine with the vntainted members of the Church of Rome 4 And yet hath seuered her selfe from the Church of Rome by crying against and dissenting from her Superstions 5 Which some of vs hold no true Church of Gods in regard of the preuailing Faction 6 Although we iudge charitably of the Saluation of some in that Church 7 Who notwithstanding are saued not as Papists but as Christians 8 And in one lumpe or communion with this Church liued ours before the Reformation 9 Which then for want of a Generall did seuer her selfe by a Nationall Councell from the same 10 Nor was it any by-respect of the Kings but God and the cry of that age that caused this reformation 11 Nor doe our reformed Churches dissent amongst themselues in doctrine but in outward politie and discipline onely 12 Our Bishops and Priests come by a lineall Succession from Henry the eights time nor can a supposall of Heresie cut off this descent CHAP. 2. Of the Scriptures Pap. DOe you then hold this Church of yours to bee the ground of your Faith and reason of your beleeuing So as you doe therefore beleeue all the points of your saluation to be true because the Church doeth teach and instruct you in the same Or haue you any other rule and ground of your faith Prot. The Authority and good conceipt we haue of Gods Church a August contra Epistol fundam c. 5. prepareth vs to beleeue the points of our Saluation and serueth as an introduction to bring vs to the discerning and perfect apprehension of these mysteries of our faith but the Scripture onely is the ground and reason of our beleeuing For as the b Iohn 4.29 Samaritans were induced and drawne on to beleeue in Christ by that talk of the woman but hauing heard Christ himselfe professe plainely they beleeue no longer for her saying but c Iohn 4.42 because they heard him speake himselfe So doe we beginne to beleeue moued thus to doe by the good conceipt we haue of the Church but rest not in it as the ground of our beleeuing but onely in the infallible assurance of Gods truth in the booke of Scriptures Pap. Then God helpe you if that be your last resolution For our Church cannot erre but your Scriptures without the helpe of the Church to tell you so much can neuer bee ascertained vnto you to be the word of God And therefore what assurednesse of beleefe can you propose your selues vpon so vnsetled a foundation Prot. The Catholike Church indeed Wald. doctr fid l. 2. art 2. c. 27. spread ouer the world cannot erre damnably though the Church of Rome and all other particula Churches may as your owne Writers confesse But the Scriptures wee know to be the word of God not because the Church or Churchmen doe tell vs so much but by the Authority of God himselfe a Caluin instit l. 1. c. 7. d. 4. whom we doe most certainely discerne to speake in his word when it is preached vnto vs. For if we bring pure eyes and perfect senses the maiestie of God forthwith presenteth it selfe vnto vs in the holy Scriptures and beating downe all thoughts of contradicting or doubting things so heauenly forceth our hearts to yeeld assent and obedience vnto the same And therefore if you doubt whether that which you reade in your Bible be the word of God or finde any reluctancy in your vnderstanding to the doctrine of the same it is in vaine to flie vnto either Church or Churchmen to be perswaded in this point but down vpon your knees and pray feruently vnto God for Faith and the illumination of the Holy Ghost which can only assure you of the trueth of the Scriptures Caluin instit l. 1. c. 7. dist 5. For after wee are enlightned by the Spirit we do no longer trust either our owne iudgement or the iudgement of other men or of the Church that the Scriptures are of God but aboue all certainety of humane iudgement wee most certainely resolue as if in them wee saw the maiestie and glory of God that by the ministerie of men they came vnto vs from Gods owne most sacred mouth Pap. But what certaine ground of faith can you place on the Scriptures seeing by the seuerall interpretations of men and women they are turned and wrested like a nose of wax to euerie priuate designe and purpose Doe not you obserue how the Catholikes Protestants and especiallie the Brownists and Anabaptists doe fit all their turnes out of the holie Scriptures on which of these senses and imaginations is your faith rooted or peraduenture haue you some odde capritchious kinde of interpretation of your owne apprehension to direct you in these businesses Prot. Wee lay-folkes are licensed in the Church of England to reade Doe all interprete 1. Cor. 12.30 but not to interprete Scriptures excepting onely those passages which containe the necessarie points of our Saluation the which passages are so plaine easie euery where that any man or woman of the meanest capacitie especiallie if he or she be instructed in their Catechisme or grounds of religion may perfectly conceiue Staplet cont 6. q. 7. exp si art and vnderstand them But for the harder and more difficult places we leaue them to be interpreted by our Church-men in their Sermons and dailie ministerie For the ordering of which interpretations there are as I haue beene told 10. seuerall helps Obserued out of D. Field M. Hooker Chemnitius and Trelcatius the which if they be followed wil be sure and vnfallible guides to bolt out the true meaning of each place of Scripture 1 An illumination of the vnderstanding by
the Holy Ghost 2 A minde free from other thoughts and desirous of the truth 3 Knowledge of the Scriptures Creedes Catechismes Principles and other Axiomes of Diuinitie 4 A considerations how our meaning suites with other points of Christianitie 5 The weighing of circumstances antecedents and consequents 6 Knowledge of Histories Arts and Sciences 7 Continuall reading meditating and praying 8 Ioint and vniarring expositions of the Fathers 9 Consenting decrees of auncient Synods and Councels 10 Knowledge in the tongues Because therefore lay-men and women Papists Brownists and Anabaptists are wanting in all or some of these helpes they bring foorth many times such lame and prodigious interpretations Pap. If wee make the Scripture not the Church the rule of our Faith how shall we beleeue the Creed the Trinity the Sacraments the vnity of Essence the three persons in the Deity c. words neuer read in the Bible and yet necessarily to be apprehended of vs vpon paine of damnation Prot. I say that all these things are set downe in Scriptures either in so many syllables or at leastwise by necessarie inferences and deductions And wee doe not therefore beleeue them because they are onely taught by the Church but because they are rooted and grounded in the holie Scriptures the onelie stay and pillar of our affiance To summe vp therefore all this Chapter 1 The Church doeth prepare vs but the Scripture onely doeth force vs to beleeue 2 The whole Church cannot any part thereof may erre damnablie 3 Wee are taught the Scriptures to bee the word of God by the Holy Ghost mouing in our hearts and not by the Church sounding in our eares 4 Lay-men are to reade not to interprete Scriptures 5 The misse of some rules causeth wrong expositions of Scriptures 6 All things necessary to bee beleeued are either found in or collected and inferred from the Scriptures CHAP. 3. Of Iustification Pap. HOW then doe you learne out of the Scriptures that you are to be iustified and saued before God Prot. I am to bee iustified before God by an Act single in it selfe but double in our apprehension which is By Gods not imputing vnto me my sinnes and the same Gods imputing vnto mee Christs righteousnesse and withall by his creating of faith in my heart by the Holy Ghost to assure my Soule that God for the Actiue and Passiue obedience of Christ Iesus hath accomplished those two former Actes of not imputing my Sinne and of imputing vnto mee Christs righteousnesse Pap. A verie easie no doubt and reasonable religion which you haue learned out of the Scriptures Heere is no burthen left for your owne backe you cast all vpon Christs shoulders by the meanes of these two fine wordes Not imputing and imputing and a third swimming notion of your own conceipt which any man may haue with a little imagining termed by you faith it would be knowne therefore where your Church hath found out these words of Art in the holie Scriptures Prot. We do in all humilitie confesse that the globe of our sinnes and the world of that righteousnesse which is to appeare in the presence of Gods Iustice is too massie for vs to sustaine that are but dust and ashes and supportable only by that Atlas Verba Lutheri ep ad Henr. 8. tom 2. ep p. 290. Christ Iesus vpon whose shoulders not our conceits but the goodnes of God hath plac't and pressed them But that these wordes imputing and not imputing are such Greeke vnto you I doe impute it to your not reading of Scriptures and taking vp your religion by trust and credit from such Fripperers and Brokers as by lending your soules a false opinion of merits and good workes do diue into your purses and eat vp your estates by way of interest Not to trouble you as I might with a thousand places aske Dauid Psal 32.1 whether not imputing of sin and S. Paul Rom. 4.45 whether the imputing of Christs righteousnesse doth not make vs blessed and iustified For the words vse your owne eyes and inspection And for the meaning I referre you to a August tom 8 in psalm 31. S. Augustines vpon the one and b Amb. in ep ad Rom. c. 8. S. Ambrose his commentarie vpon the other passage Now that you fondlie imagine that Faith this heauenly hand that reacheth at this double Act and applies it to our owne Soules is such an apprehension as you may command when you please out of your owne phantasie it is such a poore opinion that no Soule warmed with the least touch or feeling of religion but contemnes with a most holie scorne and reproach I tell you and if you once haue it your conscience will tell you no lesse this Faith is the richest iewell in Gods cabinet Ephes 2.8 and can neuer be compas'd by any endeuour of ours vntill the Holy Ghost comes downe from heauen to set and enchase it in our hearts with his owne fingers as it were And being once obtained it new moldes and fashions the whole nature of man so as the vnderstanding becomes more enlightned to know God the will to obey God the affections to loue God and our brethren Nor can it bee preserued to the comfort of our conscience without daily praying meditating doing good workes reading the Scriptures hearing good Sermons and perusing of deuout and godly Treatises My beliefe therefore is this Gods not imputing of sinne and imputing of righteousnesse is the worker The Merits of Christ the procurer Faith wrought by the holy Ghost the instrument or applier good workes or my inherent righteousnesse poore as it is a consequent onely effect and follower of my iustification Pap. I haue heard some of your side raile against the very name of inherent righteousnesse which you seem now to acknowledge embrace Do Protestants therefore challenge any other righteousnesse besides that of Christs which is imputed Prot. They doe acknowledge a Sanctification or inherent righteousnes in the same sence as the auncient Fathers tooke the Word but not as Iesuits of late mistake it We haue righteousnesse inherent or subsisting in vs according to the which we shall be iudged but not according to the which wee shall be iustified You make your righteousnesse to goe before as the cause we ours to come after as the effect of Iustification You suppose yours so absolute as to euict from God all wee expect from ours is but to testifie vnto men that we are iustified You bragge of a perfection of degrees wee onely teach a perfection of parts in our righteousnesse For as in the dawning of the day euery part of the heauens is enlightened though none as yet in a full and compleat splendour so after the Act of Iustification apprehended by faith euery facultie of the soule is sanctified and made righteous the vnderstanding the will the affections the thoughts the words the deedes but none of those so exactly perfect as to implead a Iustification at the throne of
Faith 5. If you endeauour to abstaine from sinne for feare of offending so good a God 6. If you beginne to endeauour to liue godly and righteously because it is the will and commandement of God 7. If you take more delight then you did in praying to God 8. If you thanke God priuately for these his good motions By these eight points you may soone know whether you haue true faith or not Q. What is the infallible marke of true and iustifying Faith A. The effectuall applying of Christ and all his benefits to your owne soule in particular This application doeth make a difference betwixt iustifying Faith and all other kindes of faith which cannot saue vs As Historicall Faith which is a bare knowledge Faith of Miracles which is a bare assent Temporary Faith which is but a bare profession of the Faith for a time embraced onely for the desire of Knowledge Credite Profite Q. What is the meaning of this assertion of S. Paules that we are iustified by Faith alone A. The meaning is this Euen as when you giue your almes to a begger it is receiued by his hand alone and yet his hand is not alone when it receiues these alms but accompanied with an arme sinewes and arteries Euen so when God offers vnto you Christ and his righteousnesse you doe receiue him by Faith alone and yet this Faith which receiues Christ is neuer alone but still accompanied with Charitie and good workes In a word 1. To holde almes is proper to the hand and not the arme and to holde Christ proper to Faith and not good workes 2. You are iustified by Faith alone and yet if your faith be alone it cannot iustifie you Q. What is the meaning of S. Iames when hee sayth That wee are iustified by workes and not by Faith A. The meaning is this 1. Faith iustifieth vs before God good works before men 2. Faith makes vs good workes declare vs to bee iustified 3. Faith giues vs our first iustificatioÌ„ good works our second which is our Sanctification or holinesse Q. What is the least and weakest degree of Faith that I may build vpon to keepe mee from despaire in case I finde not all those alterations in my selfe which you spake of before A. 1. If you desire Faith or pray vnto God that you may desire Faith 2. If you can pray or desire of God to enable you to pray 3. If you find fault with your want of faith and desire sometimes of God to helpe this want You are for all that the childe of God RESOLVTIONS OPPOSITIVE DIVINITIE OR The ordinary Obiections of Papists against them of the reformed Churches DIALOGVE Papist Protestant CHAP. I. Of the Church Pap. THe Church of England is no Church 〈…〉 strange considering your owne Writers conclude a Church to be there where there is found 1 doctrine of saluation Georg. Cassan consult titul de Ecclesia according to Scripture 2 the vse of the Sacraments and 3 outward discipline or Ecclesiasticall gouernement although the Churchmen should fall short of those Apostolicall and primitiue perfectioÌ„s which flourished in their predecessours Pap. Yea but it is not the Catholike Church mentioned in the Creed I beleeue in the Catholike Church Prot. 1. No more is the Church of Rome for there was no Church at all in Rome when the Creed was made by the Apostles at Hierusalem Ruffin in Symb. Augustin Ser. 115. euery Apostle making his Article when they were to depart to plant particular Churches in Rome Id. Serm. 181. de Tempore England and other places 2. But our Church is a branch and portion of that Catholike Church as is also the a Theoriani collo Damianus à Gots Onuphrius in vita Iulij Greeke Armenian Aethiopian and Syrian as well if not rather then the Romane Church Pap. Peraduenture these other Churches may bee members of that Catholike Church as ioyned and vnited with vs but the vnion betwixt your Church and ours hath beene cut asunder aboue an hundred yeeres agone and therefore you are quite cut off from the Catholike Church Prot. This is more then you know or then I am bound to beleeue For Cassand consult pag. 930. meerly spirituall consisting in Faith Hope Charitie true Doctrine c. Institut of a Christian fol. 19. This vnion of the members of the Catholike Church is inward not outward and therefore discerned onely by God himselfe We neuer sundred our selues from the people or Church of Rome but from the Faction or Court of Rome not from the sincere doctrine of that Church but from the corruptions and innouations foisted into that Church And therefore although we be neuer so hated Cassand ibid. and excommunicated by your Priests yet we may be still vnited in internall societie with your Church if you retaine those principles of Religion sound and vnaltered in the which our forefathers died and as we well hope were saued Pap. How are you then gone from vs if you be still vnited with vs. Prot. As the Prophets went from the corrupt Churches of the Iewes and as Christ and his Apostles from the Scribes and Pharises clamando dissentiendo by crying out against your corruptions and dissenting from your innouations and this a Cas consult pag. 929. Gerson de pâ—â—â—…tate Ecclesiae your owne men allowed vs to doe Pap. I but some of your men say that wee had no true Church of God in the West of many yeeres before Luthers time Prot. Their meaning is to be limited in respect of the Predominant and preuailing Faction Your Church held I confesse a sauing profession of the Trueth of God but your Church-men mingled therewith many damnable impieties And these innouators onely carrying the greatest shew of the Church are denied by our Writers to bee the true Church of God Pap. This it is we Catholikes obserue You dare not for all your malice deny the Church of Rome to haue in some sort a sauing profession of the truth of God but our Priests conclude directly that your Church hath no truth at all and that a Barclaius paraenes li. 1. pag. 7. none can be saued in that Church Prot. As in euery kingdome the generall estate is nothing so forward actiue quicke and peremptorie as the priuate Factions and yet is found at the last more wise and stayed in finall resolution So in the Catholike Church the b Can. loc theol l. 4. c. 1. Lindan panopl. lib. 4. cap. 7. Factions are euer more headie and precipitate in their denunciations of Heauen and Hell then the maine body thereof Hence it commeth to passe that although the Greeke Armenian Ethiopian and Syrian and for the most part the Protestant doth censure charitably of those Laickes who liuing rather In then Of the Church of Rome hold the grounds of the doctrine of Saluation without any notorious mixtures with the late superstitions and impieties crept into the same yet doth the a Quodlibet