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that_o the_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a have_v be_v say_v by_o prudentius_n and_o confess_v to_o have_v be_v say_v 892._o both_o by_o he_o and_o other_o by_o your_o own_o hero_n cardinal_n perron_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n i_o shall_v speak_v hereafter_o pray_v to_o saint_n may_v have_v come_v in_o upon_o consequence_n draw_v out_o of_o mistake_a place_n of_o scripture_n or_o other_o which_o induce_v the_o opinion_n that_o they_o enjoy_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n some_o may_v conclude_v that_o then_o they_o see_v all_o in_o it_o and_o at_o first_o pray_v to_o they_o but_o conditionallie_o till_o their_o number_n increase_v and_o with_o it_o the_o degree_n in_o which_o they_o hold_v the_o opinion_n till_o now_o to_o deny_v it_o be_v account_v heresy_n though_o i_o know_v no_o father_n which_o justify_v our_o invocate_a of_o they_o although_o they_o speak_v of_o their_o intercede_v for_o we_o before_o nazianzen_n who_o example_n alone_o 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from_o the_o apostle_n but_o of_o introduce_v one_o of_o which_o they_o be_v whole_o silent_a either_o as_o they_o at_o first_o as_o you_o must_v say_v pappias_n do_v or_o only_o as_o true_a till_o be_v root_v and_o spread_v it_o be_v believe_v apostolical_a upon_o tertullian_n argument_n that_o else_o how_o can_v so_o many_o church_n errare_fw-la in_o unam_fw-la fidem_fw-la err_v into_o the_o same_o belief_n which_o because_o less_o time_n have_v then_o be_v allow_v error_n to_o disperse_v itself_o in_o be_v then_o though_o no_o conclude_a proof_n yet_o a_o better_a than_o it_o be_v the_o next_o age_n and_o so_o still_o grow_v the_o worse_a for_o the_o wear_n till_o now_o it_o be_v worth_a just_a nothing_o but_o as_o himerius_n say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i_o say_v it_o be_v most_o easy_a to_o answer_v that_o which_o be_v not_o impute_v for_o i_o be_o so_o far_o from_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n teach_v these_o two_o thing_n to_o be_v idolatry_n since_o on_o my_o 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scope_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n be_v great_a and_o the_o apostle_n preach_v in_o so_o great_a variety_n of_o country_n it_o may_v happen_v some_o point_n in_o one_o country_n may_v be_v less_o understand_v or_o peradventure_o not_o preach_v which_o in_o another_o be_v often_o preach_v and_o well_o both_o understand_v and_o retain_v we_o may_v easy_o free_v ourselves_o from_o these_o bramble_n for_o the_o spirit_n of_o tradition_n reside_v in_o this_o that_o the_o testimony_n be_v exceptione_n majus_fw-la and_o beyond_o all_o danger_n of_o deceit_n it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o efficaciousnesse_n of_o tradition_n that_o the_o whole_a universal_a church_n shall_v be_v witness_n to_o such_o a_o truth_n but_o so_o great_a a_o part_n as_o can_v be_v a_o warrant_n against_o mistake_v so_o that_o if_o all_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n greece_n or_o africa_n or_o egypt_n shall_v constant_o affirm_v such_o a_o tradition_n to_o have_v be_v deliver_v they_o from_o the_o apostle_n it_o 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enquiry_n which_o protestant_n be_v bind_v to_o make_v to_o answer_v to_o this_o objection_n to_o find_v out_o a_o existence_n of_o some_o professor_n of_o the_o reform_a doctrine_n before_o luther_n time_n for_o find_v the_o catholic_n be_v not_o obligedto_o prove_v the_o negative_a it_o be_v my_o part_n to_o prove_v to_o myself_o the_o affirmative_a that_o our_o religion_n be_v no_o innovation_n by_o some_o pre-existence_n before_o that_o but_o in_o the_o perusal_n of_o all_o the_o story_n or_o record_n ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a as_o i_o can_v choose_v i_o can_v find_v no_o ancient_a a_o dissension_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n then_o waldo_n wickliff_n or_o husse_v who_o cause_n have_v relation_n to_o the_o now-professed_n protestancy_n so_o as_o i_o find_v a_o interval_n of_o about_o eight_o hundred_o year_n from_o the_o time_n that_o all_o the_o protestant_n confess_v a_o unity_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n down_o to_o those_o person_n without_o any_o apparent_a profession_n of_o different_a faith_n to_o answer_v myself_o in_o this_o point_n i_o read_v many_o of_o our_o protestant_a author_n who_o treat_v of_o it_o and_o i_o find_v most_o of_o they_o reply_n to_o this_o sense_n in_o which_o i_o cite_v here_o one_o of_o the_o most_o authentic_a doctor_n whitaker_n in_o his_o controversy_n 2._o 3._o pag._n 479._o where_o they_o ask_v of_o we_o where_o our_o church_n be_v heretofore_o for_o so_o many_o age_n we_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v in_o secret_a solitude_n that_o be_v to_o say_v it_o be_v conceal_v and_o lay_v hide_v from_o the_o sight_n of_o man_n and_o further_o the_o same_o doctor_n chap._n 4._o pag._n 502._o our_o church_n always_o be_v but_o you_o say_v it_o be_v not_o visible_a do_v that_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v not_o no_o for_o it_o lay_v hide_v in_o a_o solitary_a concealment_n to_o this_o direct_a sense_n be_v all_o the_o answer_n that_o ever_o i_o can_v meet_v to_o this_o objection_n i_o repeat_v no_o more_o these_o place_n be_v so_o positive_a to_o our_o point_n this_o confession_n of_o invisibilitie_n in_o our_o church_n for_o so_o many_o age_n do_v much_o perplex_v i_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o even_o to_o offend_v natural_a reason_n such_o a_o derogation_n from_o god_n power_n or_o providence_n as_o the_o sufferance_n of_o so_o great_a a_o eclipse_n of_o the_o light_n of_o this_o true_a church_n and_o such_o a_o church_n as_o this_o be_v describe_v to_o be_v seem_v to_o i_o repugnant_a to_o the_o main_a reason_n why_o god_n have_v a_o church_n on_o earth_n which_o be_v to_o be_v conserver_n of_o the_o doctrine_n christ_n precept_n and_o to_o convey_v it_o from_o age_n to_o age_n until_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n therefore_o i_o apply_v my_o study_n to_o peruse_v such_o argument_n as_o the_o catholic_n bring_v for_o the_o proof_n of_o a_o continual_a visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n down_o from_o the_o apostle_n time_n in_o all_o age_n and_o appearance_n of_o doctor_n teach_v and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n in_o proof_n of_o this_o i_o find_v they_o bring_v many_o proviso_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o this_o text_n most_o literal_a of_o the_o four_o of_o the_o ephesian_n christ_n have_v place_v in_o his_o church_n pastor_n and_o doctor_n to_o the_o consummation_n of_o the_o saint_n till_o we_o meet_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o faith_n and_o next_o the_o discourse_n upon_o which_o they_o infer_v this_o necessary_a visible_a succession_n of_o the_o church_n seem_v to_o i_o to_o be_v a_o most_o rational_a and_o convince_a one_o which_o be_v to_o this_o effect_n natural_a reason_n not_o be_v able_a to_o proportion_n to_o a_o man_n a_o cause_n that_o may_v certain_o bring_v he_o to_o a_o state_n of_o supernatural_a happiness_n and_o that_o such_o a_o cause_n be_v necessary_a to_o mankind_n which_o otherwise_o will_v total_o fail_v of_o the_o end_n it_o be_v create_v for_o there_o remain_v no_o other_o way_n but_o that_o it_o must_v be_v propose_v unto_o we_o by_o one_o who_o authority_n we_o can_v not_o of_o and_o that_o in_o so_o plain_a a_o manner_n as_o the_o simple_a may_v be_v capable_a of_o it_o as_o well_o as_o the_o learned_a this_o work_n be_v perform_v by_o our_o saviour_n from_o who_o mouth_n all_o our_o faith_n be_v original_o derive_v but_o this_o succeed_v age_n not_o be_v able_a to_o receive_v it_o immediate_a from_o thence_o it_o be_v necessary_a it_o shall_v be_v convey_v unto_o they_o that_o live_v in_o it_o by_o those_o that_o do_v receive_v it_o from_o christ_n own_o mouth_n and_o so_o from_o age_n to_o age_n until_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n and_o in_o what_o age_n soever_o this_o thread_n of_o doctrine_n shall_v be_v break_v it_o must_v needs_o be_v acknowledge_v for_o the_o reason_n above_o mention_v that_o the_o light_n which_o shall_v convey_v mankind_n through_o the_o darkness_n of_o this_o world_n be_v extinguish_v and_o mankind_n be_v leave_v without_o a_o guide_n to_o infallible_a ruin_n which_o can_v stand_v with_o god_n providence_n and_o goodness_n which_o saint_n austin_n affirm_v for_o his_o opinion_n direct_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr util._n cred._n cap._n 16._o saying_n if_o divine_a providence_n do_v preside_v over_o humane_a affair_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v but_o that_o there_o be_v some_o authority_n constitute_v by_o the_o same_o god_n upon_o which_o go_v as_o upon_o certain_a step_n we_o be_v carry_v to_o god_n nor_o can_v it_o be_v say_v he_o mean_v the_o scripture_n only_o by_o these_o step_n sinoe_v experience_n show_v we_o the_o continual_a alteration_n about_o the_o right_a sense_n of_o several_a of_o the_o most_o important_a place_n of_o it_o that_o what_o be_v contain_v there_o can_v be_v a_o competent_a rule_n to_o mankind_n which_o consist_v more_o of_o simple_a then_o lean_v man_n and_o beside_o the_o scripture_n must_v have_v be_v suppose_v to_o have_v be_v keep_v in_o some_o hand_n who_o authority_n must_v beget_v our_o acceptance_n of_o it_o which_o be_v no_o other_o thing_n then_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n we_o have_v no_o more_o reason_n to_o believe_v that_o it_o have_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n free_a from_o all_o corruption_n then_o that_o it_o have_v maintain_v itself_o in_o a_o continual_a visibility_n which_o saint_n augustine_n conclude_v to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n in_o these_o word_n in_o his_o book_n cont._n cecil_n 104._o the_o true_a church_n have_v this_o certain_a sign_n that_o it_o can_v be_v hide_v therefore_o it_o must_v be_v know_v to_o all_o nation_n but_o that_o part_n of_o the_o protestant_n be_v unknown_a to_o many_o therefore_o can_v be_v the_o true_a no_o inference_n can_v be_v strong_a than_o from_o hence_o that_o the_o concealment_n of_o a_o church_n disprove_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o last_o not_o to_o insist_v upon_o the_o allegation_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o all_o the_o father_n of_o the_o church_n in_o every_o several_a age_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o most_o clear_a that_o which_o in_o this_o cause_n weigh_v much_o with_o i_o be_v the_o confession_n and_o testimony_n of_o the_o approve_a doctor_n themselves_o of_o the_o protestant_a church_n as_o hooker_n in_o his_o book_n of_o eccles._n pol._n pag._n 126._o god_n always_o have_v and_o must_v have_v some_o visible_a church_n upon_o earth_n and_o doctor_n field_n the_o first_o of_o eccles._n cap._n 10._o it_o can_v be_v but_o those_o that_o be_v the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v know_v by_o the_o profession_n of_o truth_n and_o further_o the_o same_o doctor_n say_v how_o shall_v the_o church_n be_v in_o the_o world_n and_o nobody_o profess_v open_o the_o save_a truth_n of_o god_n and_o doctor_n white_a in_o his_o defence_n of_o the_o way_n chap._n 4._o pag._n 790._o the_o providence_n of_o god_n have_v leave_v monument_n and_o story_n for_o the_o confirmation_n
i_o mean_v as_o many_o as_o be_v now_o extant_a and_o speak_v of_o it_o hold_v something_o which_o both_o part_n condemn_v as_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o chiliast_n if_o i_o say_v he_o find_v not_o this_o or_o i_o show_v he_o not_o that_o he_o may_v have_v find_v it_o i_o profess_v i_o will_v be_v ready_a to_o spend_v my_o life_n for_o that_o church_n against_o which_o i_o now_o employ_v my_o pen_n so_o that_o this_o will_v be_v the_o end_n neither_o of_o your_o church_n have_v be_v always_o visible_a only_o the_o difference_n be_v this_o that_o we_o be_v most_o trouble_v to_o show_v our_o church_n in_o the_o latter_a and_o more_o corrupt_a age_n and_o they_o they_o in_o the_o first_o and_o pure_a that_o we_o can_v least_o find_v we_o at_o night_n and_o they_o they_o at_o noon_n and_o whereas_o he_o expect_v that_o doctor_n white_n shall_v stand_v to_o this_o to_o confess_v his_o religion_n false_a if_o a_o continual_a descent_n of_o it_o can_v be_v demonstrate_v if_o he_o himself_o will_v please_v to_o grant_v as_o much_o as_o he_o exact_v if_o he_o but_o continue_v in_o this_o resolution_n and_o in_o this_o search_n i_o doubt_v no_o more_o but_o that_o he_o will_v soon_o leave_v to_o be_v a_o papist_n than_o i_o shall_v doubt_v if_o i_o see_v he_o now_o receive_v the_o communion_n in_o the_o king_n chapel_n that_o he_o have_v do_v it_o already_o six_o his_o reason_n for_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o visibility_n follow_v because_o the_o contrary_n be_v a_o derogation_n from_o god_n power_n or_o providence_n i_o answer_v to_o say_v he_o can_v not_o keep_v the_o truth_n exact_o in_o man_n belief_n be_v to_o derogate_v from_o god_n power_n to_o say_v he_o have_v not_o give_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o find_v the_o truth_n and_o yet_o damn_a man_n for_o error_n the_o first_o will_v be_v a_o derogation_n from_o his_o providence_n the_o second_o from_o his_o justice_n but_o to_o say_v he_o suffer_v man_n to_o err_v who_o neglect_v the_o mean_n of_o not_o err_v and_o that_o he_o damn_v none_o for_o a_o mere_a error_n in_o which_o the_o will_n have_v no_o part_n and_o consequent_o the_o man_n no_o fault_n derogate_v from_o none_o of_o the_o three_o but_o say_v he_o this_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o main_a reason_n why_o god_n have_v a_o church_n upon_o earth_n to_o be_v the_o conserver_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o convey_v it_o from_o age_n to_o age._n i_o answer_v to_o conserve_v it_o be_v every_o man_n duty_n but_o such_o as_o they_o may_v all_o fail_v in_o and_o indeed_o be_v rather_o the_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o end_n of_o the_o church_n a_o exact_a conservation_n make_v a_o exact_a church_n and_o a_o less_o perfect_a conserve_n a_o less_o perfect_a church_n as_o for_o conveyance_n of_o doctrine_n the_o whole_a church_n convey_v none_o whereof_o many_o if_o his_o be_v it_o have_v have_v but_o little_o convey_v to_o they_o particular_a christian_n especial_o pastor_n teach_v other_o which_o it_o be_v every_o man_n duty_n to_o do_v when_o he_o meet_v with_o they_o who_o want_v instruction_n which_o he_o can_v give_v and_o they_o be_v likely_a to_o receive_v yet_o be_v not_o the_o instruction_n of_o other_o every_o man_n main_a end_n but_o mr._n montague_n i_o know_v persuade_v he_o that_o some_o body_n of_o man_n be_v appoint_v to_o convey_v this_o doctrine_n which_o man_n be_v to_o receive_v only_o because_o they_o deliver_v it_o and_o this_o i_o absolute_o deny_v for_o we_o receive_v no_o doctrine_n from_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o church_n authority_n because_o we_o know_v she_o not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n till_o we_o have_v examine_v her_o doctrine_n and_o so_o rather_o receive_v she_o for_o it_o than_o it_o for_o she_o neither_o for_o the_o conveyance_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v it_o necessary_a that_o any_o company_n of_o man_n in_o all_o time_n hold_v it_o all_o because_o some_o may_v convey_v some_o truth_n and_o other_o another_o out_o of_o which_o by_o compare_v their_o doctrine_n with_o the_o scripture_n man_n may_v draw_v forth_o a_o whole_a and_o perfect_a body_n of_o truth_n and_o though_o they_o deliver_v few_o other_o truth_n yet_o in_o deliver_v scripture_n wherein_o all_o necessary_a truth_n be_v contain_v they_o deliver_v all_o and_o by_o that_o rule_n whosoever_o regulate_v his_o life_n and_o doctrine_n i_o be_o confident_a that_o though_o he_o may_v mistake_v error_n for_o truth_n in_o the_o way_n he_o shall_v never_o mistake_v hell_n for_o heaven_n in_o the_o end_n seven_o his_o next_o reason_n be_v their_o common_a achilles_n the_o four_o of_o the_o ephesian_n which_o he_o choose_v only_o to_o employ_v like_o his_o triarios_fw-la his_o main_a battle_n leave_v his_o velite_n his_o light-armed_n soldier_n some_o place_n too_o allegorical_a even_o in_o his_o own_o opinion_n to_o stand_v examination_n the_o word_n be_v these_o he_o have_v give_v some_o prophet_n some_o apostle_n some_o 11._o evangelist_n some_o pastor_n and_o some_o doctor_n for_o 12_o the_o instauration_n of_o the_o saint_n for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n for_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n till_o we_o all_o meet_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n unto_o a_o perfect_a man_n and_o unto_o the_o measure_n of_o the_o age_n of_o the_o fullness_n of_o christ._n that_o we_o may_v be_v no_o more_o child_n toss_v and_o 13_o carry_v about_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n now_o out_o of_o this_o place_n i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o succession_n may_v be_v evince_v rather_o i_o think_v it_o may_v if_o that_o apostle_n mean_v none_o for_o first_o he_o say_v not_o i_o will_v give_v but_o he_o have_v give_v and_o who_o can_v suppose_v that_o the_o apostle_n can_v say_v that_o christ_n have_v give_v than_o the_o present_a pope_n and_o the_o doctor_n who_o now_o adhere_v to_o he_o second_o allow_v that_o by_o what_o he_o have_v give_v be_v mean_v he_o have_v promise_v which_o will_v be_v a_o gloss_n not_o much_o unlike_a to_o that_o which_o one_o of_o the_o most_o witty_a and_o most_o eloquent_a of_o our_o modern_a divine_n doctor_n donne_n note_n of_o statuimus_fw-la i_o abrogamus_fw-la yet_o since_o these_o several_a noun_n be_v govern_v by_o the_o same_o verb_n and_o no_o distinction_n put_v it_o will_v prove_v as_o well_o a_o necessity_n of_o a_o continual_a succession_n of_o apostle_n prophet_n and_o evangelist_n as_o of_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n which_o be_v more_o then_o either_o they_o can_v show_v or_o pretend_v they_o can_v so_o that_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o follow_v that_o these_o be_v then_o give_v to_o do_v this_o till_o then_o and_o not_o a_o succession_n of_o they_o promise_v till_o then_o to_o do_v this_o and_o so_o we_o receive_v and_o retain_v the_o scripture_n wherein_o what_o they_o teach_v be_v contain_v as_o we_o will_v any_o thing_n else_o that_o have_v as_o general_a and_o ancient_a a_o tradition_n if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o need_v no_o more_o for_o if_o he_o say_v that_o man_n be_v toss_v for_o all_o the_o scripture_n i_o answer_v so_o be_v they_o for_o all_o their_o doctor_n nay_o if_o these_o keep_v any_o from_o be_v toss_v it_o be_v the_o scripture_n which_o do_v it_o upon_o which_o their_o authority_n be_v by_o they_o found_v upon_o their_o own_o interpretation_n and_o reason_n who_o yet_o will_v not_o give_v we_o leave_v to_o build_v any_o thing_n upon_o we_o out_o of_o plain_a place_n and_o though_o they_o tell_v we_o that_o we_o can_v know_v the_o scripture_n but_o from_o the_o church_n they_o be_v yet_o fain_o as_o appear_v to_o prove_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n out_o of_o scripture_n which_o make_v i_o ask_v they_o in_o the_o word_n of_o their_o own_o campian_n and_o with_o much_o more_o cause_n nihilne_n pudet_fw-la labyrinthi_n eight_o there_o follow_v another_o reason_n to_o this_o sense_n that_o reason_n not_o be_v able_a to_o show_v man_n a_o way_n to_o eternal_a happiness_n and_o without_o such_o a_o one_o man_n will_v fail_v of_o the_o end_n to_o which_o he_o be_v ordain_v it_o must_v be_v propose_v by_o a_o infallible_a authority_n in_o so_o plain_a a_o manner_n as_o even_o the_o simple_a may_v be_v capable_a of_o it_o which_o be_v perform_v by_o our_o saviour_n it_o must_v be_v convey_v to_o succeed_a age_n by_o those_o who_o hear_v it_o from_o he_o and_o whensoever_o this_o thread_n fail_v mankind_n be_v leave_v without_o a_o guide_n to_o inevitable_a ruin_n i_o answer_v that_o though_o all_o this_o grant_v it_o prove_v not_o against_o we_o for_o we_o have_v the_o scripture_n come_v down_o to_o we_o relate_v christ_n doctrine_n and_o write_v by_o those_o that_o hear_v it_o
which_o the_o simple_a be_v capable_a of_o understanding_n i_o mean_v as_o much_o as_o be_v plain_a and_o more_o be_v not_o necessary_a since_o other_o question_n may_v as_o well_o be_v suffer_v without_o harm_n as_o those_o between_o the_o jesuit_n and_o the_o dominican_n about_o praedetermination_n and_o between_o the_o dominican_n and_o almost_o all_o the_o rest_n about_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n and_o those_o who_o be_v not_o neither_o be_v they_o capable_a out_o of_o scripture_n to_o discern_v the_o true_a church_n much_o less_o by_o any_o of_o those_o noteswhich_n require_v much_o understanding_n and_o learning_n as_o conformity_n with_o the_o ancient_n and_o such_o like_a nineth_o the_o same_o answer_n i_o give_v to_o this_o serve_v also_o to_o the_o follow_a word_n of_o saint_n austin_n for_o whereas_o mr._n montague_n conclude_v that_o he_o can_v not_o mean_v the_o scripture_n as_o a_o competent_a rule_n to_o mankind_n which_o consist_v most_o of_o simple_a person_n 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