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scripture_n	church_n	faith_n	ground_v	2,659	5	9.9858	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02358	Popish glorying in antiquity turned to their shame Whereby is shewed, how they wrong, villifie, and disgrace, that whereunto they pretend to carry greateste reuerence: and are most guilty of that which they vpbraide vnto others. Collected and proued out of themselues, for the singular profit both of pastors and professors. By William Guild, minister at King Edward.	Guild, William, 1586-1657.	1627 (1627)	STC 12490; ESTC S117899	90,426	272

Patrum non sunt regulae nec habent authoritatem obligandi that is The Writs of the Fathers are not Rules neyther haue they authoritie to astrict vs to them The reason whereof their owne Roffensis doeth render saying Nec diffitemur errasse Patres Homines enim erant sicut nos that is Nei●her deny wee but the Fathers haue erred for they were Men even as wee are Imo constat sayeth Bellarmine quosdam ex praecipuis eorum in quibusdam non leviter lapsos ut Hilarium vix dolores corporis in CHRISTO agnovisse Cyprianus improbabat Sacramenta tradita ab Hereticis aut Schismaticis that is Yea it is sure that some of the chiefe of them erred and that not lightlie in some things as Hilarie did who searce did acknowledge that CHRIST suffered any paine in His Bodie and Cyprian denyed that they were Sacramentes which were ministred by Heretickes or Schismatickes Item Iraeneus contendit sayeth hee CHRISTUM fere ad annum 50 pervenisse antequam passus est that is Ire●●us also did holde that CHRIST almost came to bee fiftie yeares of age before Hee suffered which is flat contrarie to Scripture and S. Iohns relation who showeth that hee was baptized at 30 and at the third Passeover thereafter that hee suffered Death c. I omit their confession how manie were millenaries as also Augustines condemning of Children vnbaptized to hels fire with Ieromes errour of second marriages c. Therefore sayeth Aquinas Authoritatibus canonicae Scripture utitur sacra doctrina propriè ex necessitate arguendo authoritatibus autem aliorum doctorum Ecclesiae arguendo pro●abiliter Innititur en●m fides nostra revelationi Apostolis Prophetis factae qui cano●●●cos libros scripserunt non autem revela●ioni siqua fuit ali●s doctoribus facta vnde dicit Augustinus in Epistola ad Hieronymum Solis enim Scripturarum Libris qui canonici appellantur didici hunc honorem deferre ut nullum authorem eorum in scribendo errasse aliquid firmissime credam Alios autem it a lego ut quantalibet sanctitate doctrinaque praepolleant non ideo verum putem quia ipsi ita senserunt vel scripserint that is Holie doctrine vseth the authoriti● of canonicke Scripture properlie and necessarilie concluding out of them bu●●● gueth onlie probablie out of the authorities of other Doctors of the Church for our fayth is grounded on that which was revealed to the Prophets and Apostles who wryte the canonicall Bookes but not to that which was revealed to anie other Doctors if any such th●ng was wherefore sayeth Augustine in his Epist●e to ●●rome For I haue learned sayeth hee to giue this honour onlie to the Bookes of Scripture which are called Canonicke that I most firmlie belieue that no Author of any of them in their writing erred in a jet but as for others I so reade them that altho they were never so excellent eyther in godlinesse or learning yet I doe not belieue that it is true because they thought or wrote so Wherefore in Patribus legendis sayeth their Salmeron servanda videtur sententia Quintiliani qui sic scribit Neque statim inquit id legenti persuasum sit omnia quae magni Authores dixerunt utique esse perfecta nam labuntur interdum oneri cedunt indulgent ingeniorum suorum voluptati summi sunt homines tamen acciditque lectoribus ut quicquid apud ipsos reperiunt dicendilegem putant ut deteriora imitentur that is In reading of the Fathers the judgement of Quintilian would bee kept who wryteth fo● neyther instantlie sayeth hee let the Reader bee assured that all thinges which great Authors haue sayde are everie way perfect for they erre sometyme and succumbe and giue loose reines to the pleasure of their own wits It is true they are great Authors but yet they are men and it befalleth their Readers that whatsoever they finde in them they thinke it a Law to their speaches that so they may follow the worse thinges And for a particular practise of this fore-saide direction Lyra setteth downe his owne example saying Nec debet aliquis moveri si in hoc ob opinione Hieronymi disc●ssero nam dicta sanctorum non sunt tantae authoritatis quin liceat contrarium tenere in iis quae per Scripturas non determinantur ut ait Augustinus ad Vincentium de sanctorum doctorum scriptis hoc genus scribendi à canonicis Scripturis distinguendum est nam testimonia ex eis non depromuntur quasi non liceat aliter sentire that is Neyther should any man bee moved if I depart in this from the opinion of Ierome for the sayings of the holy Fathers are not of so great authoritie but it is lawfull to hold the cont●arie to them in those things which are not determined by the Scriptures as Augustine sayeth to Vincentius of the writs of the holie Doctors This sort of writing is to bee distinguished from canonicke Scriptures for Testimonies are not taken out of them as if it were not lawfull to any other-wyse to thinke Now then if any Protestant say farder than the foresayde Popish Doctors avouch concerning the Fathers eyther in exposition of Scripture or other points of Faith let the most malicious Adversarie instance and the vnpartiall Reader judge and discerne CHAP. III. Hovv they reject Them all when They make not for them altho consenting in one And first In doctrinall points of Fayth BELLARMINE answering to Hermannus in the matter of Traditions layeth this as a ground Etsi enim erraverint aliqui patrum sayeth hee in quibusdam dogmatibus nunquam tamen omnes simul in eodem errore convenerunt proinde cum ostendimus omnes convenire in Traditionibus non scriptis asserendis satis efficaciter probamus in eo illos non errasse that is Albeit some of he Fath●rs haue erred in some points of fayth yet they never agreed all in anie one errour there●ore when wee show that they all agree for the est●blishing of vnwritten Traditions wee p●oue sufficientlie that they erred not in that Salmeron yet commeth nearer and sayeth Non sunt improbanda veterum testimonia quando omnes vel fere omnes in unam sententiam conveniunt vel in uno aliquo Scripturae loco interpretando concordant quia tunc Patres certissimum inevitabile reddunt argumentum veritatis catholicae certae ac legittimae interpretationis that is The Testimonies of the Fathers are not to bee rejected when they all or almost all agree in one opinion or in the exposition of any place of Scripture because then the Fathers giue a sure and inevitable argument of catholick veritie and of a sure and lawfull exposition of Scripture And yet how they deale with Antiquitie in this point let these particulars heereafter declare FIrst in the freeing of the Virgine Maries owne conception from all originall Sinne Bellarmine is so resolute a decreeter that hee

some Sainct in a Church at Anabl●t● hee rent the ●ame in pieces and wrote to the Patriarch of Ierusalem within whose bounds it was showing that it was agaynst the authoritie of Scripture and repugnant to Christian Religion to 〈◊〉 or suffer any such Wayles or Images to be 〈…〉 Churches Therefore it was lykewyse when Adrian the Emperour had commanded that Temples should be made in all Cities without Images that strayght-wayes it was presentlie conceited rumoured that he did prepare those Temples for Christ. The reasō was because the ancient Christians had no Images in their Churches Of whome when it was demanded by the Gentiles why they had no Images Minutius Foelix gaue them this answere What Image sayeth hee shall I make to God when man him selfe if thou rightly judge is God's Image Yea such was the more carefull warinesse yet of the ancient Fathers to prevent Idolatry that they would not haue the Images of God nor His Saincts so much as set vp in private houses To which purpose was that speach of the foresaid Epiphanius ascribed vnto him in the Councell of Constantinople saying Haue this in mynd belo●ed Sonnes not to bring Images into the Church 〈◊〉 Church-yards 〈…〉 places of the 〈…〉 not into an ordinarie house but alwayes carrie about the rememberance of God into your hearts for it is not lawfull for a Christian man to bee carried in suspense by his eyes and the wandring of his mynde Nay in the ancientest and best ●ymes some would not so much as admit the Arte of making Images to be amongst Christians being so jealous of the danger that might ensue of their vnfit location and illicite adoration vvhich made Clemens Alexandrinus to say We are playnlie forbidden sayeth hee to exercise that deceitfull Arte. And yet to what height both of Impietie Impudencie agaynst all Antiquitie is Popish doctrine arisen vnto in this point let their own wordes testifie First that the same worship is due to the Image which is due to that which it representeth so teacheth S. Thomas of Aquin and their S. Bonave●●●●e and therefore that the highest degree of divine worship which is Latria is due to anie Image of Christ. And that this is not the doctrine of the forenamed or of a few but the constant doctrine of Romane divinitie thus testifieth Azorius the Iesuit It is the constant judgement of Divines sayeth he imaginem eodem honore cultu honorari coli quo colitur id cujus est imago that is That the Image is to be honoured and worshipped with the same honour and worship where-with that is worshipped where-of it is an Image Secondlie Per se proprie s●●t v●nerandae sayeth Bellarmine it a utipsae cerminum venerationem ut in se considerantur non solum ut vicem gerunt exemplaris that is By them selues and prop●rlie they are to bee worshipped so that they themselues doe limit the worship that it goeth not farder as they are considered in them selues and not onlie as they supplie the roome of that which they represent Than which Position never anie was ever more blasphemous nor taught more grosse Idolatrie And yet lest that it should seeme to bee Bellarmine's or the mynd of a few Frier Pedro de Cabrera a great Divine in Spayne telleth vs that it is Communis Theologorum conclusio that is The common conclusion of the Romish Divines The third Poynt where-in avowedlie Poperie rejecteth Antiquitie to wit in placing their consecration of the Eucharist in the words Hoc est corpus meum THirdlie the Arch-bishop of Caesarea in his Booke of the necessitie of amending Schoole Theologie dedicate to Sixtus 5 sayeth that it is the doctrine Omnium Orthodoxorum tum Graecorum quam Latinarum per verba sacrae orationis fieri consecrationem that is That all the Orthodox Fathers both Greeke and Latine holde that Consecration is made by the words of holie Prayer And yet all Papists refusing this Verdict of Fathers affirme it to bee onelie by these words Hoc est corpus meum The fourth Poynt concerning Limbus Patrum and for probation there-of whether it was Samuel truelie who appeared 1 Kings 28 us Bellarmine holdeth agaynst the most cōmon consent of venerable Antiquitie LAst when the consent of Fathers is particularlie adduced agaynst Bellarmine both Greeke and Latine to infirme his proofe of Limbus Patrum out of 1 Kings 28 they affirming that it was Satan that appeared to Saul and not the Prophet Samuel thus disdaynfullie doeth hee reject their harmonie saying His non ●bstantibus ●enendum est vere Smith elis animain fuisse that is Notwithstanding that all those Fathers say so it is to bee helde that it was truelie the soule of Samuel who appeared I omit how Bellarmine showeth that in the matter of Marriage their Canus did holde an opinion both singular new agaynst all Antiquitie wherfore hee concludeth that Canus opinion must bee altogether false or else it should folow that in a most weightie poynt the whole Church assuredlie had for manie Ages ●rred As also how Gropperus another of their number in the same matter of Matrimonie dissented from all Antiquitie Wee see then howe consonant to their Practise is their Thrasonick● Bragging who sayeth Nos Patrum doctrinam non aliqua ex parte admittimus alia repudiamus sed integram amplectimur that is sayeth Durie We● admit not the doctrine of the Fathers in one poynt and reject the same in another but whollie embrace all that they holds Or as Campian sayth Tenemus integra horum volumina that is Hee keepe vs close by their whole W●ytings Ethos magistros à De● dat●s in omnibus audiunt Catholici sayeth Costerus that is The Catholicks hearken vnto them in althings as to Masters given vnto them from God Beeing here-in no lesse impudent than was the Hereticke Dioscorus vvho dissenting most clearlie from the Orthodox Fathers yet hee vttered these wordes most peartlie and perverselle in the Councell of Chalcedon saying I am cast out with the Fathers I defende the doctrine of the Fathers I transgresse them not in anie Poynt Secondly How the Romanists reject the Fathers consenting in one in exposition of Scripture as formerlie hath bene showne they doe in doctrinall points of Fayth VALENTIA declareth that their Councell forbiddeth expresselie to expound Scripture agaynst the vniforme consent of Fathers as beeing altogether infallible and sure The reason where-of Canus doeth giue Quippe cum Sanctorum omnium sensus Spiritus sancti sensus ipse sit that is To wit Seeing the meaning of all the holie Fathers is the meaning of the holy Ghost him selfe sayeth hee And yet what the Popish practise is heere in let vs by a few Examples beholde First in the interpretation of that place Rom. 5.12 In whom al ha●● sinned the whole Aūncientes vvith one mouth sayeth Canus affirme the blessed Virgine to

haue beene conceived in Originall sinne and so all agree that by the word All the whole race of Adam are included that ever were procreated betweene Man and Woman But the Romanists will no-wyse acqulesse to this exposition because they vvill haue the Virgin Maries conception without originall sinne and ●o contrarie to the exposition o● all the Fathers will haue her excluded Where also it is to be noted that seeing no Graduate in Divinitie is promoted in Paris without giving a solemne Oath to mayntayne this Priviledge of the Virgine Marie and that this Text and exposition there-of is close contrarie there-to as also to that Ordinance of their owne Councell for exposition of Scripture according to the vniforme consent of Fathers Therefore it will clearly follow that they sweare both to impugne Scripture Veritie as also consenting Antiquitie together with their Popes and his Councells authoritie Stella in lyke manner expounding the 21 verse of the 10 chapter of Luke saith All the Expounders whom I could commonlie see eyther of ancient holie Doctors or of recent Divines all these and their Commentaries declare that the word confite●or is not taken heere for Confession of sinnes but for that sayeth hee which wee call Thanks-giving Commending or to blesse c. Notwithstanding this meaning of the●●s can neyther agree with the wordes nor could it ever satisfie anie-wyse my mynde Agayne Maldonat commenting on Matthew 26 29 where our Saviour sayeth I will not drinke hencefoorth of the fruite of the Vine sayeth thus Origen Cyprian Chrysostome Epiphanius Ierome Augustine Beda Euthymius and Theophilast all these referre those wordes to Christ's blood or that which was so called in the Sacrament but I cannot be perswaded sayeth hee that they can bee referred to the Blood of Christ. Because he forsooth would haue them vnderstood of the common Cuppe before the institution of the Sacrament to avoyde the force of this Testimonie agaynst Transsubstantiation In lyke manner expounding these wordes for Papall Supremacie Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke I will build My Church hee sayth thus of the interpretation of Fathers expounding the Rocke not to be Peter but Christ Him selfe or that Confession of Fayth which was made of Christ. This meaning sayeth he of these words seemes not to me to be the true meaning which all other Fathers thinke to be so whom ever I remember to haue read except onlie Hilarie Also for mayntaynance of the same Supremacie commenting on the subsequent Verse Neyther will I interpret sayeth hee that this which is spoken heere to Peter is spoken also in the same sense to the other Apostles Whatsoever thou loosest on earth shall be loosed in Heaven altho I see all Interpreters except Origen onelie to bee of that mynde More-over commenting on Matth. 11 13 which speaketh of Elias that was to come meaning Iohn the Baptist hee sayeth Almost all the Fathers so expound that place but this their exposition is not fit enough And why But because the Iesuit would haue Elias yet only to come in the reigne and time of their conceited Antichrist Last of all expounding these words of Matthew All men cannot receiue this Saying after that he hath adduced the interpretation of the Fathers thereon to be this Non omnes praestare possunt ut sint sine uxore quia carent dono continentiae that is All men cannot attayne to this that they may be without a wyfe because they want the gift of chastitie hee concludeth Sic fere omnes exponunt quibus equidem ego non assentior that is Indeede almost all Interpreters so expound with whome not-withstanding I doe not agree And why But because hee is a Pleader agaynst this Text and the exposition of Antiquitie for forced single lyfe and the Vow of Continencie Agayne in the exposition of the last Commandement when Bellarmine hath adduced a number of Fathers holding that Commandement Thou shalt not covet c. to be but one entire Commandemēt and not divisible in two as the Papists make it to make vp ten confounding the first and second for defence of their Imagerie hee rejecteth al their judgements as grosse and erronious In lyke manner when he hath adduced the expositions of all the Fathers which they giue on that place of the Corinthians 1. Cor. 15.29 where-by hee would establish Purgatorie because they serue not for his purpose hee roundlie therefore rejecteth them all calling them haske and both false and forced and therefore taketh one of later Forgerie more suteable to his mynde Agayne when Cardinall Tolet in the exposition of Iohn 7 37 hath adduced Chrysostome Euthymius and Theophilact their agreement in one yet this is his censure saying that their exposition is both forced and vnfit and therefore hee professeth not to follow it anie way Last of all thus sayeth Cardinall Cajetan of the exposition of Scripture in generall Let no man abhorre sayth hee any new sense of Scripture for this cause because it disagreeth frō the ancient Doctors but let him search more nearlie the Text and coherence of Scripture and if hee finde agreement let him prayse God who hath not tyed the exposition of Scripture to the meaninges of ancient Doctors but to the integritie of Scripture it selfe How-so-ever then Bellarmine braggeth of their syde that they follow the consent of Fathers falselie imputing to vs that wee onelie followe our owne exposition yet wee see heere-in that it may bee justlie sayde vnto them that of the Poet Mutato nomine de te fabula narretur Their owne Cardinall Baronius besyde their fore-named practise confessing clearlie that al-be-it the holie Fathers whom we sayeth he for their heavenlie learning worthilie doe call The Doctors of the Church were evidentlie endewed beyond others with the grace of the holie Ghost yet in the exposition of Scripture the Catholicke that is the Romane Church doeth not ever and in all thinges follow them CHAP. IIII. How contumeliouslie they deale with the Fathers and especiallie first with those of the Greeke Church conjunctlie and in Councell IT is reported of Pelagius that even when he most disagreed from the Orthodox Fathers of the Primitiue Church yet in his third Booke for Free-will hee soothed vp his Heresie and thought to amaze all men with his prayse of Sainct Ambrose Blessed Sainct Ambrose that Bishop sayeth he in whose bookes the Romane Fayth especiallie appeareth who lyke a beautifull Flowre shyned amongst the Latine Wryters and whose Fayth and most pure vnderstanding of the Scriptures the verie Enemie himselfe dare not reprehende Even so our Adversaries when they most disagree lyke-wyse from the most ancient Fathers and primitiue Councels yet how they doe soothe vp their Errours But with the lyke Salue alleadging the holie Fathers and famous Councels of the primitiue Church al-to-gether to make for them and therefore they highlie extoll and advance them But as Ambrose not-with-standing made agaynst his Prayser Pelagius So doe the Fathers

men and Catholicke-instructed doe wonder and admire Agayne thus saith Sixtus Senensis of Fisher late B. of Rochester In the aboundance of Learning sayth he and sinceritie of Godlinesse and in constancie of mynde Cuiqueue ex sanctissimis acerrimis Ecclesiae propugnatoribus merito comparandus that is Worthilie to bee compared with anie who-so-ever of the most holie Fathers and most cowragious Defenders of the Church In lyke manner thus sayeth Pererius of his Fellow Tostatus A man sayeth hee surelie not onelie for the multitude of Wrytinges but also for the subtiltie and rypnesse of Wit gravitie of Iudgement and excelling in sundrie kynd● of Learning Antiquis illis magnisque patribus docto●ibus merito annumerandus that is Who is worthilie to bee numbered with the ancient Fathers and great Doctors of the Church Next for preferring their newe Doctors to the most auncient Fathers let their bishop Fisher testifie vvho sayeth That it cannot be obscure vnto anie that manie things as well in the Gospels as in the rest of the Scriptures are now more exquisitelie discussed by later Wryters and more clearlie vnderstood than they haue bene heere-to-fore Againe when Frier Stella hath rejected the Exposition of all the Fathers on Luke 10 21 hee sayeth That tho it bee farre from him to condemne the common Exposition given by the ancient Fathers yet hee knoweth verie well that Pigmeis beeing put vpon Giants shoulders doe see farther than Giants them-selues Like-wise when the Iesuit Salmeron getteth the whole Fathers as Erasmus showeth in his Teeth against the conception of the Virgine Marie without original Sinne in their exposition of Rom. 5 12 yet hee answereth That the whole devotion towardes the Mother of God did not consist in Bernard Bonaventure and other Fathers for she had manie then as shee hath now better knowne to her selfe that were of the contrarie minde then they were knowne to the World and there-after hee concludeth in favours of the new Romish Clergie saying Quo Iuniores ●o perspicaciores esse Doctores that is That the later their Doctors bee that they are the more wittie and clearer sighted In like manner in another Question of great moment Whether the Law of Moses concerning Degrees forbidden in Marriage belong to Christians where-in from the authoritie of ancient Fathers affirming the same when the Church of Rome is attainted as patrons of Incest by her Dispensations with such forbidden Degrees the Author of Apologia tumultuaria answereth heer-in thus Let the Fathers sayeth hee haue their owne reverence c. But I dare say that the more recent Divines in manie places are more pertinent and pithie yea more exquisite diligent watchfull And even so sayth Costerus That as the Church is grown now in number so is the same in Learning and Sharp-sightednesse CHAP. XII By what partiall absurd Rule the Romanists do admit or reject the Testimonies of Fathers FIrst for clearing here-of sufficientlie Bellarmine giveth evidence who amongst the diverse Expositions of Fathers others vpon that place of the Romanes 14 5 which sayth One man esteemeth one day aboue another taketh that onelie and admitteth as true Quae nobis maxime fave● sayth he that is Which most favoureth our side being heere-in like Faustus the Manichean who by this Rule admitted some Apostolicall Writs rejected others Qula hoc pro me sonat sayde hee illud nequaquam that is Because this maketh for me and the other not so Partiall Iniquitie but not precious Veritie and no wise the loue of the Trueth but selfe-loue bearing the whole swey Againe whether the same vnction bee meaned Marke 6 and Iames 5 in this point for defence of extreame vnction to be by Christ's institution Bellarmine rejecteth the judgement of Beda Theophylact and OEcumenius who are contrarie to his mynde he receiveth a newer Exposition of their owne Divines saying of the same Mi●i saue eo nomine gratior est quia video Lutherum Calvinum Chemnitium in priori opinione that is Surelie this Exposition is the better liked by mee because I see Luther Calvine and Chemnitius of the first opinion Thus is our consent with Antiquitie wee see a sufficient ground to them of dissenting there-from direction of Reason not inducing but distraction of Affection seducing them from the Trueth In like manner Maldonat on the sixt of Iohn giving an Exposition of the 63 verse saith I deny not saith hee that I haue no Author before me of this Exposition Sed bane eo magis probo quam illam alteram Augustini caeter●rumque alioquin probabilissima● quod haec cum Calvinistar●m sensu magis pugnet that is But I approoue this Exposition the rather preferre it before the other of S. Augustine's and the other Ancients altho other-wise the same bee most probable and lykliest to bee the true meaning because this Exposition fighteth or is more contrarie to the meaning of the Calvinists Thus wee see Faction not Affection to the Trueth Prejudice not sound Iudgement and the hatred of persons and not the regard of Cause simplie so in these to prevaile that we may loose hope that wee can availe them THE SECOND BOOKE OF COUNSELS CHAP. XIII As the Romanists deale with the Fathers so how they manie vvayes deale injuriouslie vvith ancient Councels 1. By adding to them AS for the Tomes of Councels in the generall thus farre doeth Bellarmine ingeniouslie cōfesse Quod Libri Conciliorum negligenter conservati s●nt sayeth hee multis vitiis scatent that is That the bookes of the Councels being negligentlie kept doe indeed abound with manie Errours And so howe sure reasoning in matters of Fayth can bee now out of their Canons for most part may easilie bee seene And of the truest and most vnsuspect Canons of the most ancient Councels most impudentlie doeth Bellarmine professe speaking thus of that most famous Councell of Chalcedon which their Pope Gregorie did reverence as one of the foure Gospels That the Canons thereof had not authoritie with them Nisi quatenus sunt renovati sayth hee à Romanis pontificibus that is But in so farre as they are renewed by the Popes of Rome In particular therefore to show how this Fyning and Forging is practized in the Romane Mint before the Canons of Councels passe for currant Money in the Papall Kingdome wee will first instance their Popish Patching and adding to the same A notable Example where-of wee haue in that fact of Pope Zozimus who added to that famous first Councell of Nice a Canon in his owne favours whose Fraude was detected his Pryde checked and his Vsurpation prevented by that famous Councel of Carthage which standeth vp yet in the faythfull Records thereof as a Clowde of Witnesses to testifie the same even vnto this day Next whereas the fourth Councell of Carthage decreeth expresselie That no Woman baptize yet not-with-standing for mayntayning their Popish Practise in the contrarie they haue added as Bellarmine