haue beene too prolixe already for which my ensuing breuity shall make amends CHAP. XIII Our last Argument from the iudgement of the Learned ALthough wee iudge what wee haue already deliuered in this cause to bee abundantly sufficient and our arguments such as will not readily bee answered yet because wee would not bee thought to hold that which no one learned or godly hath done before vs and that it may appeare that if to say the Church of Rome is a true Church be to fauour Popery the greatest Aduersaries that euer that Church had haue beene fauourers thereof with whom they must bee content to absolue or condemne vs it shall not be grieuous to vs to alledge the Testimonies of a few whereby it shall appeare that the best learned in our profession are of this iudgement We heard something by the way before of Caluius opinion we shall finde that he is still the same I suppose saith hee that in the Papacie some Church remaineth Calu. Epist 104. a Church crazed or if you will broken quite in peeces forlerne mishapen yet a Church Againe Semisepultus illie Instit lib. 4. cap. 2. Sect. 12. iacet Christus obrutum Euangelium There is Christ halfe buried the Gospell ouerwhelmed with humane traditions I deny her not the name of a Morn de Eccles Church saith another no more than to a man the name of a man as long as he liueth what sickenesse soeuer he hath Heare another of as deepe iudgment as any in our Church I acknowledge Zanch. Praefat. de Relig. the Church of Rome euen at this present day for a Church of Christ such a Church as Israel vnder Ieroboam yet a Church Marke his reason Euery man seeth except hee willingly hoodwincke himselfe that as alwaies so now the Church of Rome holdeth firmly and stedfastly the Doctrine of truth concerning Christ and baptizeth in the Name of the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost confesseth and auoucheth Christ for the onely Redeemer of the world and the Iudge that shall sit vpon quicke and dead receiuing true beleeuers into endlesse ioy faithlesse and godlesse men being cast with Sathan his Angels into flames vnquenchable Heare another In hunc modum iudicium facimus de Ecclesiâ in quâ est Papatus â—unius 〈…〉 de 〈◊〉 Deus vocat cam c. This is our iudgement concerning that Church in which the Papecie is God calleth her c. Exparte Dei vocatur adhuc Hammi Populus méus Ruchama misericordiam consequuta quae verissimè enparte suâ Lo-Hammi non Populus meus Lo-Ruchama non assequuta misericordiam potest appellari vt apud Hoseam Prophetam legimus On Gods part sbe is yet called Hammi my People and Ruchama one that hath obtained mercy who for her owne part by reason of her disobedience may truely bee said to be Lo-hammi not my People and Lo-Ruchama one that hath not obtained mercy as wee reade in the Prophet Hosea At ista Ecclesia nihil non habet corruptum Fateor sed quòd Diuiâ—â— habet omnia in Scripturis à Deo est quòd corrupta habet omnia ab ipâ—â est quòd diuina habet omnia Ecclesia est quòd eadem habet corrupta omniâ— Ecclesia corrupta est But that Church hath nothing which is not corrupted I grant it but that shee hath all Diuine truth contained in the Scriptures it is from God that that truth is corrupted is from her selfe in that shee hath all diuine truth she is a Church in that she hath corrupted it shee is a corrupt Church Ecclesia non tollitâ—r corruptione nisi totali vt loquuntur quam vocant interitum Ecclesiam non tollit partialis corâ—â—â—tio sed infâ—â—mat Ecclesia Romana omnia habâ—t corrupta sed non omninò haec non interitus est sed pâ—â—tialis corruptio eius dicanda est The being of a Church is not taken away by corruption vnlesse it be totall as they speake which is the destruction of it Corruption in part doth not destroy the Church but weakens it The Romish Church hath all things corrupted but not altogether c. Let vs come nearer home Though M. Hooker his discourse of Iustificatâ—on the Church of Rome haue played the Harlot worse than euer did Israel yet are they not as now the Synagogue of the Iewes which plainly deny Christ Iesus quite and cleane excluded from the New Couenant Vtrobique Catholica Tortuâ—a Torti pag. 367. fidei professio qua ipsa in professionè non mutamus in quibus nobiscum estis in multis enim nobiscum estis With you and with vs is the profession of the Catholicke faith in which profession we alter not that wherein you agree with vs for in many things we agree Voâ—â—erè cum â—ulta apud vâ—s reâ—iqua sint adâ—uc de Cathotholicae fâ—dei dâ—â—mâ—â—ibus quanquam non nihil sermentata membra quidâ—â— Catholiâ—ae etsi non sâ—na membrâ—dice â—â—uâ—â—inemus pag. 40 saith the late Reuerend Bishop of Winchester And againe Seeing â—hat with you there yet remaine some opinions of the Catholicke faith howbeit somewhat sowred with Popish leauen we are content to account you members though vnsound members of the Catholicke Church Hear another who neuer yet was so much as suspected to fauour Popery Wee must distinguish the Papacy from â— Vsher in a Sermon of the Vniuersalitie of the Church of Christ before the King at Wansted pag. 13. the Church wherein it is as the Apostle doth Antichrist from the Temple of God wherein he fitteth The Foundation vpon which the Church standeth is that common Faith in the vnitie whereof all Christians doe generally accord Vpon this Old Foundation Antichrist raiseth vp his new buildings and layeth vpon it not hay and stubble only but far more vile and pernicious matter c. And after Poperie it selfe is nothing pag. â—6 â—lse but the botch and plague of the Church c. And againe If you demand where pag 30. was Gods Temple all this while the answer is at hand There where Antichrist sate Where was Christs People Euen vnder Antichrists Priests And yet this is no iustification at all either of Antichrist or of his Priests but a manifestation of Gods great power who is able to vphold his Church euen there where Sathans Throne is Reuel 2. 13. And sundry other witnesses might be produced which I had not leasure or opportunitie to enquire into In the meane while I would gladly seâ— the Testimony of but one in estimation for his learning amongst vs that euer affirmed the Church of Rome to deny the foundation of Faith directly The Verdict which the Church of England passeth vpon them is this The Church of Rome hath erred not onely in their liuing and Article 19. manner of Ceremonies but also in matters of Faith but that shee hath denyed the Faith and is become worsâ— than an Infidell I cannot finde to haue beene at any
Eloquentiam qua vnus omnes Populares suos longè antecellit qua te velut grandine obrueret adeò vt exteâ—ae Vide varia ipsius Opuscula ex Anglico in Galliâ—um seâ—monem versa gentes in sua ipsarum Vernacula gestiant ipsum audire loquentem qui tantus est in dicendo vt quod de Cicerone Oratorum maximo Quintilianus de illo verè ausim affirmare quae vix singula quisquam intentissima cura consequi posset ab ipso multa fluunt illaborata Deus mihi testis est quà ◠hic nihil amplificem Quae quideâ— Ã me non temerè dicta velim vt tâ— seriò tecum cogites quot enim illiâ— virtutes totidem tua vitia vna oper depinxi cui cum tali viro simultate gerere iucundum est Neque velin vt tu aut quisquam alius existimet me illum emerendi fauoris gratia impensius laudasse vtpote quem ad hunc vsque diem nunquam aspexi qua facie sit nescio iuxta cum ignarissumis quem tamen in sinu meo semper gesto quem tamen habeo semper ob oculos prae manibus in delicijs maximis Quod reliquum est te hortatum velim in super ne popularem opinionem pluris quam par est facias quae quidem vt non est repudianda cum vltro defertur surgit ex meritis ita ambiendam nullo modo existimarunt sapientes Et illa certè est quae multa multis sape sâ—asit perperam Qui nudiustertiùs Hosanna clamabant hodiè Crâ—cifige vociferantur Non indignum erat homine Christiano dictum Philosophi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Non te moror diutius precor tibi mentem meliorem dico Vale. â—he Contents of the following TREATISE PART I. Chap. 1. VVHat wee thinke of the Church of Rome Chap. 2. â—hat wee thinke of those that liue in the Communion of the Church of Rome Chap. 3. â—hat wee vnderstand by the name of the Church Chap. 4. â—hat we call a true Churcâ— Chap. 5. â—hat the foundation of Faith is Chap. 6. â—hat it is directly to deny the foundation and how it is ouerthrowne by consequence Chap. 7. How to distinguish betwixt the Church â— Rome and Babylon in the Church and â— state of the question Chap. 8. Our first argument from Scripture Chap. 9. Our second argument prouing that Popery â—keth not away from fundamentall trâ— but addeth to it Chap. 10. Our third argument prouing from the Bâ—tisme in the Church of Rome that she â— true Church Chap. 11. Our fourth argument prouing from the lâ— full Ordination in the Church of Roâ— that wee cannot deny her the name of â— Church Chap. 12. Our fift argument prouing from our manâ— of disputing with them that we acknowledâ— them to bold the foundation Chap. 13. Our sixt and last argument taken from tâ— iudgement of the learned in this particulâ— PART II. The Reuerend Bishops arguments are defended and Master Burtons obiections fully answered Chap. 1. Containing an Introduction to the following discourse Chap. 2. Master Burtons method and manner of proceeding Chap. 3. Master Burtons argument answered touching the markes of a true Church Chap. 4. Master Burtons cauilling at the Reuerend Bishops similitudes examined Chap. 5. Whether the diuorce bee sued out on Gods part or on the Church of Romes part Chap 6. Of the charitable profession of zealous Luther Chap. 7. Of the Deane of Glocesters authority Chap. 8. Master Burtons exceptions against some passages in the Reuerend Bishops Apologie Chap. 9. Whether Papists be Christians Chap. 10. How from the Councell of Trent Mastâ— Burton would proue that the Church â— Rome doth directly deny Christ Iesus CHAP. I. â—hat wee thinke of the CHVRCH of ROME LEt no man imagin that Part 1. I intend to pleade for Baal to be an Aduocate for the impure Church of Rome or to lend a shoulder to hold vp the tottering fabricke of the Antichâ—istian Monarchie a rotten structure and now if euer neare to ruine and destruction Neither let it be thought by any that I goe about in this ensuing discourse afresh to paint ouer the face of Iezable I desire rather were it not already sufficiently knowne to discouer her nakednesse and to lay open her filth to the indignation and scorn of all that passe by If any one shall so interpret mee or in that manner glosse vpon my writing let him know that then this Booke a Quem recita◠〈◊〉 est O â—â—dentin◠〈…〉 Sed â—ale cuâ— reâ—itaâ— inâ—ipiâ— esse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ceaseth to be mine and becommeth his own If Baal bee a God let him plead for himselfe If Christs pretended Vicar haue any right to his office let him produce his proofe but let it be better than by making a Solaecisme in the words of the Euangelist Tues Petrus super hanc Petram c. Mat. 16. Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke I will build my Church better than by Iohn 11. interpreting Sheepe and Lambes Clergie and Laitie Hee must shew fairer Cardes for his deposing of Kings and disposing of their Kingdomes than the two swords in Luke Ecce tibi duo gladij the one signifying the Chap. 22. temporall the other the spirituall iurisdiction and that other will proue but a dreame Arise Peter kill and eate Wee grone for that time Acts 10. when the Lord shall destroy this man of sinne with the breath of his mouth Our opinion touching the Church of Rome is That it is a Church fraught with heresies full of impieties that shee hath iustified Sodome by her sins and the most Heathenish by her Idolatries That her doctrines for the most part are iniurious to Almighty God and contumelious to the Redeemer of all the world Out of their owne mouthes will we condemne them A Iesuite of their own plainely confesseth That if the body of the blessed Sonne of God bee not in such manner present in the holy Eucharist as they teach and to their power maintaine that then they Costerus Enchtrid cap. 8. are the most impious Idolaters that liue vnder the cope of Heauen worse than the Tartars which worship a peece of red cloth for a God The antecedent wee hold vtterly impossible and that it is wickednesse to thinke that a sinfull man can make his maker for without all contradiction the lesse is blessed of the better and Heb. â— â— therefore what sentence we passe vpon them is not hard to iudge Their Doctrines are deuillish but their practice much worse Their publicke worship of God in his house so ridiculous superstitious heathenish demonicall that it is not possible for any man with an vnwounded conscience eyther to partake with them or to bee witnesse of their actions In regard whereof that is most true which some learned haue affirmed 〈…〉 conâ—â—nâ— of Sâ—â—iâ—tuâ—e 〈…〉 Doctor 〈…〉 That they haue a Religion more after Homer than after the Scripture And yet all this is
not sufficient to proue them eyther no Church at all holding as they doe fundamentall truth or a Church not so farre forth sanctified as they hold the same Which wee hope shall appeare plainely and clearely to all CHAP. II. What we thinke of those that line in the Communion of the Church of Rome ALthough I thinke it more needefull for euery man in particular to worke out his owne saluation than to be curious to know the estates of others and apprehending the mercy of God to his owne soule to cry out Domine quis ego sum Lord Iohn 21. 21. who am I that thou shouldest regard me with such fauour rather than like Pâ—ter of Iohn to aske Domine hic autem quid Master what shall hee doe as being too sollicitous of others Neuerthelesse wee who enioy the liberty of the Gospell cannot haue a better occasion to magnifie the goodnesse of God than by remembring Egypt from whence wee are deliuered nor they who are yet detained in the house of Bondage than by seeing their danger to hasten thence Errour in Religion may be no lesse pernicious to the soules of men than sinfulnesse of life and therefore doth so farre forth without Repentance exclude from all possibility of saluation The state of the Church of Rome not only now but for many hundred yeares past hath beene such that the Religion thereof in many parts of it hath beene hereticall and erroneous both for opinion and practice And therefore though the condemnation of some were more tolerable than of others some being Authors others receiuers some Masters others Schollers yet to all without exception from the idiot and handy-crafts man to the Pope and the Colledge of Cardinals plagues were due to our forefathers though they did but erroneously practise what the guides heretically taught If the blinde leade the blinde both fall into the pit of destruction Wee see the danger they all were in from the greatest to the least But was there no way of escape That which I named before Repentance only Repentance may be eyther actuall or generall Actuall Repentance is necessary for all knowne faults for those which wee through ignorance admit a generall Repentance will finde place with God By M. Hooker his discourse of iustification vertue whereof as many as hold the foundation which is precious though they hold it but weakely and as it were with a slender threed although they frame many base and vnsuitable things vpon it things that cannot abide the tryall of the fire yet shall they passe the fiery triall and be saued which indeed haue builded themselues vpon the rocke which is the foundation of the Church Our Fathers then holding the foundation of Faith which for the present I assume I doubt not but God was mercifull to saue thousands of them liuing in Popish superstitions in as much as they sinned ignorantly Yet do we not hereupon make Ignorance the Mother of Deuotion as it is obiected by some because we make â—urtenâ— 7. Vials them nearer to saluation who are held in errour not knowing it than those which pertinaciously defend it being knowne whose very want of learning may by accâ—dent conduce 〈…〉 cum liteâ—â—â— in â—arathrâ—m 〈◊〉 to their eternall good and make a way for them to the mercy of God whiles the others are left without excuse Nor yet because wee hope that God might be mercifull to some that liued in times of errour and blindnesse which it were no impiety to thinke though we had no reason for it are we of opinion That a man may bee saued in any Religion which to Bâ—rtoâ— iâ—id haue named only is sufficient refutation But to conclude let none embolden themselues vpon the mercy of God exhibited to our Fathers there is not the same reason of them and of vs they sinned ignorantly but the truth is now layd before our eyes they might bee saued by a generall Repentance for vs actuall Repentance is needfull Now the voyce from Heauen sounds more shrill in our eares than euer it did Come out of Apoc. 18. 4. her my people that yee be not partakers of her sins and that yee receiue not of her plagues This then beeing premised I will come nearer to the matter in hand viz. Whether they say well who affirme the Church of Rome to bee no true Church and if the Church of Rome deny the foundation of Faith CHAP. III. What we vnderstand by Church here THis terme of Church is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ambiguous and of doubtfull sense none more The ambiguity of the word hath serued some as a fit cloake vnder which they might both shroud their sleights and impostures and likewise â—vâ—nt their deceitfull wares Thus our Aduersaries of the Church of Rome vse the name oâ— the Church like Gorgons head to affright the simple and bring them into subiection no otherwise than the Iewes of old cryed the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord who themselues of all others had most sacrilegiously polluted it And the Turkes at this day bragge of themselues that they are Muselmanni that is The only true beleeuers who hate euen to the very death Christ and Christian Religion Vnto others who delighted to find out the truth it hath giuen occasion more accurately to distinguish that they might neither enthrall themselues to euery company which boast themselues to bee the Church nor yet withdraw their due reuerence and obedience from the true Church when they haue found her out The word Ecclesia which signifies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church in the latitude of the sense thereof may be applyed to signifie any company or congregation any combination or faction whatsoeuer but strictly taken and as it is ordinarily vsed in Scripture by the Church we vnderstand Gods Company the Congregation of the faithfull men called forth and set apart from the â—est of the world which the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 imports and become the Lords peculiar Now the Church which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Lords portion or houshold hath a double acceptation there is the Church inuisible and the visible Church The Saints in heauen which are the Church triumphant and the true beleeuers vpon earth which are the Church militant these together make vp the inuisible Church which we call inuisible because for one part of it those which are dead in the Lord and receiued into Abrahams bosome they are farre remote from our sense wee see them not The true beleeuers vpon earth which make the other part of the inuisible Church howsoeuer wee are conuersant amongst them and behold their persons yet whether they bee indeede such as to vs they seeme is more than we can know and that their names are written in the Booke of life is a thing past our discerning The visible Church comprehendeth all Christians as many as farre and neare throughout the whole world are baptized into the name of Christ and professe the same
Paul euery spirit that confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God saith S. Iohn 1. Iohn 42. Where let the words of St. Paul interpret the meaning of St. Iohn that not onely euerie spirit which confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God if so be that in workes they deny him not with which condition some would haue those words to bee vnderstood for many thinke aright of the incarnation of the son of God who in other things are not answerable to their profession but that this their confession is of God and from him and that as the Deuill is the Author of all cuill so there is â—o good whatsoeuer but proceedeth â—rom God and his most blessed spirit When the Scribes and Pharisees â—orded it in the seat of Moses and the Prophets many there were no doubt who though they communicated with them in the outward Sacraments and discipline of the Church yet were the flocke of another fold and like a few Oliues at the end of a twig after the shaking of the tree claue to the right stocke and waited for the redemption of Israel by Christ And thus doubtlesse it was with many heretofore and with some at this day which beeing outwardly of the Church of Rome wee may iustly notwithstaÌ„ding challenge to our selues Some of Gods people Doctor Chaloner â—redo Eccles Râ—uel 18. 4. are certainely in Babilon seeing such are warned by the spirit to come out of her and it were in vaine to command a man to depart a place if hee were not there But to conclude our first argument who can denie which is the principall that God hath his Church where Antichrist hath his Throne seeing as the Apostle tels vs he musâ— 1. Thes ◠〈…〉 4 〈…〉 sit in the Temple of God its God Quò◠sedes ciâ—â— in Templo Dei collocatur itâ— innuâ—tur tale fore eius Regnum quoâ— nec Christi nec Ecclesiae nomen aboleat That the seate of Antichrist is placeâ— in the Temple of God thereby is intimated vnto vs that his Kingdome should be such as should abolish neither the name of Christ nor of the Church saith that great Geneua Light I permit it 〈…〉 to your wise considerations saith one of no meane credit in our Church whether it bee more likely that as frenzic though it selfe take away the vse of Reason doth notwithstanding proue them reasonable Creatures which haue it because none can bee franticke but they so Antichristianitie being the bane and plaine ouerthrow of Christianitie may neuerthelesse argue the Church wherin Antichrist sitteth to be Christian CHAP. IX Our second Argument prouing that Popery taketh not away from fundamentall truth but addeth to it AS an Infant at the first both little and vnable to helpe it selfe gathereth strength and stature by degrees and likewise insensibly till he become a perfect man such hath beene the growth of the Man of sin at the first a Pigmy but now become a Sonne of Anak By what meanes from so small beginnings he attained to so great an height the wisedome of the wise hath discouered vnto vs. Impossible it were for the Rulers of that Synagogue either to haue gotten that power into their hands which now they hold or to mainetaine it now they haue it by making an open inuasion vpon the truth and oppugning the bulwarkes of Faith with hostile fury No Popery is a clandestine conspiracie and opposeth Doctor Chaloner Vnde Z. zâ—nia the Faith not directly but obliquely not formally but vertually not in expresse termes but by consequences and therefore vntill the Trumpets sounded the alarum and the Thunders in the Reuelation gaue warning few suspected it Wherefore is it said to be a mysterie of iniquitie but that it subtilely and secretly vndermineth the Faith not bidding open defiance vnto it Arius of old boldly and plainely denied the Diuinity of Christ Macedonius openly opposed the Diuinity of the Holy Ghost and the like If Popery should goe thus to worke what mysterie were there in it What which were not obuious to euery mans conceiuing Yea Vid. Dr. Chal. Vnâ—e Z zâ—â—ia what errour in doctrine or discipline is there brought into the Church by those builders of Babel which had not its first Originall from truth as it is iudiciously obserued that scarce any errour hath crept into the 〈…〉 lib. 1. Caâ—â— Church which tooke not its Originall and sourse from the ancient approued Discipline of the Church Thus we see their generall policie If we enquire into their particular practice we shall finde that the Popes Arithmeticke Dr. Chaloner credo Eâ—clesiam sanctâ—m Cathol which hee vseth in calculating the Articles of Faith is not substraction but addition What we purely affirm the Popish Writers for the most part do affirme the same the difference is that they affirme somewhat more than wee do They deny not so much that our affirmations are truth as that they say we affirme not all the truth whereupon they vsually stile vs in their writings * Harding against B. Iewell Negatinists For example sake Wee agree on both sides That the Scriptures are the rule of Faith That the Bookes of the Old Testament written in Hebrew are Canonicall That we are iustified by Faith That God hath made two receptacles for mens soules after death Heauen and Hell That God may be worshipped in Spirit without an image That we are to pray vnto God by Christ That there be two Sacraments That Christ is really receiued in the Lords Supper That Christ hath made one oblation of himselfe vpon the Crosse for the redemption propitiation and satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world But see our affirmations content them not To the Scriptures they adde and equalize vnwritten traditions to the Hebrew Canon the Apocrypha to faith in the act of Iustification works to Heauen and Hell Purgatory Limbus Patram and Limbus Puerorum to the worship of God in Spirit Images to prayer to God by Christ Inuocation and Intercession of Saints to Baptisme and the Lords Supper fiue other Sacraments to the reality of Christ in the Sacrament his corporal presence to the sacrifice of Christ vpon the Crosse the sacrifice in the Masse with other like and these we deny These things being well weighed wee see how iustly wee may say since the Councell of Trent as Luther did before it That vnder the Papacy is much good nay all yea the very kernell of Christianity for as much as such affirmatiues of ours at least such as concerne the foundation of Faith haue been in all ages professed by the Church of Rome it selfe The nature then of an addition being such that it doth not directly M. Hocker his discourse of iustification deny but by consequence at the most that if that which is added bee such a priuation as taketh away the very essence of that whereunto it is added then by sequell it ouerthroweth wee
our Church should deny that there is lawfull ordination in the Church of Rome What then â—â— is there no God in Israell nor balmâ— in Gilead must wee goe to gatheâ— grapes from the Romish hedges and deriue Bishops of Christ from the Sea of Antichrist iâ— is to be vnderstood all this while that wee pleâ—â— our owne cause the Reformed Churches in other parts want nâ—â— learned Patrons of their owne the weakeâ— soâ—t may perhaps be offendes hereat sed Cordatiores norunt tâ—â— Dr Prideaux Oâ—at de Vâ—â—at Minist wiser vnderstand that the Scribes Phariseeâ— sometimes sate in the chaire of Moses and that Iudas baâ—e the office of an Apostle and sometimes the Euill haue chiefe autheritie Article â—6 in the Ministration of the word and Sacraments saith the confession of our Church for it is one thing the power of teaching another the puritie of Doctrine nor doth hee that by superstition or heresie letteth goe puritie of Doctrine presently lose his authoritie and facultie of ordaining as Aarons Idolatry hindred him not from transferring the Priesthood to his posteritie Who is ignorant that they which are baptized by heretickes are truely baptized and likewise that those which are admitted into the Ministâ—ie by such are truly ordained we regard not the qualitie but the authoritie of him that conferreth holy Orders As we rebaptize M. Hieren his answer to the Popisâ—â—â—me How can shee make a lawfull Priest if she be not the church of Christ none that haue receiued Baptisme in the Church of Rome so wee doe not ordaine them anew which haue taken Orders from that See when they become conuerts If they haue sworne to any Errour or Heresie of that Church that wee cause them to abiure but we suppose them truly inuested in the Order oâ— Priesthood By this we hope it is euident thâ—â— there is yet a little strength in tâ—â— Sinfull Church of Rome forasmucâ— as there is true Baptisme whereiâ— they are baptized into Christs truâ—â— and not the Popes errours and tâ—â— shee hath not wholly lost the face â—â— a Church for there is true and lawfull ordination wherein they receiâ— Commission and do promise to teaâ—â— the people not the Popes legendâ— but out of the holy Scriptures sâ— that both Pastor and flocke are oâ—â— by admission promise and engagement theirs by abuse and practise Neither shall the precipitate speeches and rash censures of any maâ— euer preuaile so farre with vs bâ— that we will still beleeue and hope and pray that hee which called Iob â—mongst the Heathen and the Queeâ— of the South by the bare report oâ— Solomon and giueth that instinct oâ— nature vnto creatures walking in a pasture where venemous herbs are mixed with wholsome to make choise of that which is proper for them and abstain from the contrarie will giue the guidance assistance of his Spirit to his number vnder the tyranny of Antichrist to do the same that so his calling bee not still in vaine the ordination wholly vnprofitable or that admission in Baptisme alwaies frustrate that is to be the sauour of death vnto death and in none the sauour of life vnto life and herein we doubt not but we are heard euen before we ask CHAP. XII Our fift Argument prouing from our manner of disputing with Papists that they doe not directly deny the foundation of our faith IN those many parts of knowledge about which the mind of man is conucrsant some such groundes there are which being proposed 〈◊〉 minde doth presently embrace them as free from all possibilitie of errouâ— cleare and euident without proofe Such are those Principles in Philosophy that the whole is greater thâ—â— the parts c. Those axiomes oâ— reason that the greater good is to â—â— chosen before the lesse that wee mâ—â— doe vnto others as wee would bee dâ—â— vnto our selues A sentence whiâ—â— St. Augustine saith all Nations vndâ—â— heauen are agreed vpon and of suâ—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thâ—ophâ—asâ—us things as these to demand a reasoâ— were to take away reason Othâ—â— things there are which although theâ— be not so manifest in themselues yeâ— such is their plainenesse that eueâ— easinesse it selfe maketh them hardâ— be disputed of and to this numbeâ— it seemeth to mee that the matter about which wee now contend may well bee reckoned wherein foâ— ought I can perceiue they whiâ—â— oppose vs haue not brought so muâ—â— as probabilitie of reason to bâ—câ—â— their opinion much lesse that substantiall reason and demonstratiue 7. Vialls p. â—8 proofe wherewithall they beare vs in hand For if the present question to this day had neuer beene moued nor any word or syllable sounding that way were to bee found amongst the Writings of the Diuines of the Reformed Churches yet such a generall tacit concent there is amongst them herein and so vniuersally doe they conspire in this that the Church of Rome doth not directly deny the foundation of Faith that their assent may necessarily bee euinced if wee doe but consider their manner of disputing against them of that faction The Fathers in the Primitiue Church when they wrote Tertullian the Booke which hee calleth Apologeticuâ— Arnobius and Lactantius his Scholler against the Gentiles Chrysostome his Orations against the Iewes Eusebius his tenne Bookes of Euangelicall demonstration they stand in defence of Christianity against them by whom the foundation thereof was directly denied But the Writings of the Fathers against M. Hâ—oker his discourse of iustification Nouatians Pelagians and other Heretickes of the like note refell Positions whereby the foundation of Christian Faith was ouerthrowne by consequent onely In the former sort of writings the foundation is proued in the latter it is alledged as a proofe which to men that had beene knowne directly to deny must needs haue seemed a very beggarly kinde of disputing In like manner our proceedings against Papists in disputing against them do shew not onely that they hold but that wee acknowlehge them to hold the foundation Doe wee goe about to proue to them this truth thâ—â— Christ Iesus came into the world to saue sinners Doe wee not alledge iâ— as a proofe What say wee against transubstantiation but this That if our Lords Maiesticall body haue now any such new property by force whereof it may euery where really euen in substance present it selfe or may at once be in many places then hath the Maiestie of his estate extinguished the verity of his nature Against the merit of workes what do wee alledge but that Christ alone hath satisfied and appeased his Fathers wrath Christ hath merited saluation alone Wee should begge the question wee should doe fondly Vide Thomam part 1. quaest 1. aâ—tic 8. to vse such disputes neyther could we think to preuaile by them if that whereon wee ground were a thing which wee know they doe not hold which wee are assured they will not grant To be copious herein were to light a candle at noone day and I
the faith of euerie particular man much lesse is euerie Idiot chargeable with the damâ—â—blenesse of those doctrines Lastly saith he formerly the Church of Rome was the true Church but had in it aâ— Hereticall faction now the Church iâ— selfe is Hereticall and some certaiâ—e onely are found in it in such degreey Orthodoxie as that wee may hope wâ—â— of their saluation Loe Mr. Burtâ—â— the Church of Rome is now Hereticall not no Church at all for Heresie as wee haue shewed taketh not away the being of a Church and there is hope of some mens saluation liuing in that Communion which you deny in euery page Thus the worthy Deane of Glocester hath not a word against vs but for vs and you are no lesse vnfortunate in your Authorities than before you were in your Similitudes Now vicem redde let vs be as much beholding to you as you are to vs and tell vs what you answer to those formall passages alledged out of the said Reuerend Author in his Appendix See our reuerend Bishops Apology to the Treatise of the Church where hee is clearly for vs That the Romish Church is a part of the Catholicke Church of God shewing it likewise to be the Tenent of the greatest Diuines of our side In this you are silent and passe it ouer siccopede with a dry foote as the Prouerb is And therefore whereas you afterwards tell vs of a many Shels in the pag. 46. Church of Rome the Shell of the Scriptures the Shell of the Creede the Shell of the Sacraments and the like you had done much better to fit downe and cracke nuts than to trouble the world with such empty discourse Nucleum amisit reliqâ—iâ— pignori put omina CHAP. VIII Mr. Burtons exceptions against soâ—e passages in the Reuerend Bishops Apologie THus Mr. Burton hauing done with the Reuerend Bishops Rhetoricall discourse hee comes to take notice of what he hath more seriously layd downe in an Apologeticall aduertisement ioyned to the second edition of his Booke And here whiles pag. â—â— hee expects from the Bishop an ingenuous recantation of his errour loâ— a constant asseueration of the truth and the Reuerend Bishop is heartily pitied that hee is not mutable But consider Mr. Burton that if hee had retracted that which you thinke his errour all your former paints had beene lost and for the rest how would you haue done for a genuine interpretation of St. Iohns meaning in the powring out of the second Viall As for your pity bestow it somewhere else he hath no neede of it rather pity your selfe that it was your lot to fall vpon so weake a cause and to meet with so strong an Aduersarie But let vs see what are his exceptions against the Reuerend Bishops second thoughts First it is not enough for Mr. Burton that hee thus distinguisheth referring Visible to outward Profession True to some essentiall Principles of Christianitie neither of them to soundnesse of beliefe that so though the Church of Rome be a true Visible Church yet is she not a true beleeuing Church Acutely and admirably What reasonable man would not this satisfie Why doth not this please him Because he denieth any being at all to her and pag. 48. that which is not is not Visible Thus nothing but the bloud the life of the Church of Rome will satisfie his zealous thirst But heare what hee obiects Vnder correction is outward Profession a sufficient Marke of Visibility for a Church Ridicule What is Visible in a Church but that which shee professeth Or if you will not referre Visible to outward Profession whereunto will you refer it But this is none of those Markes 〈◊〉 pag. 48. which the Church of England takes notice of a Church by The Word preached and the Sacraments administred make her a Church but her Profession makes her Visible But they are the Synagogue of Sathan which call themselues Iewes and are not and the Samaritans feared God but they serued Idols withall and so doth the Church of Rome therefore it followeth that shee neyther feareth God nor doth after his Lawes True it followeth very well Adde to this that which elsewhere you teach What is it generally to professe Christ and particularly 7. Vâ—alls pa. 25. to haue no interest in him to professe the foundation but not to be built vpon it But all this while you are besides the cause here is an Homonymie you argue from the Church Visible to the Church Mysticall and Inuisible and fallacies Mr. Burton are no demonstrations Many things exclude a man from Heauen as well errours in manners as Faith which doe not exclude him from the Visible Church hee that would haue saluation by true Faith must be made a member of the Mysticall body of Christ Doth not the Reuerend Bishop tell vs that Visibilitie auaileth not to saluation and the Church of Rome that Their danger is more Visible thâ—n their Church Wherein then hath hee offended But to what purpose is it that you entertaine vs with a tedious discourse of the Visible Church all the while neyther telling vs what the Church is nor what is Visibilitie * Thus his dâ—spuâ—ing iâ— nothing but equiuocation all along by these ambiguous proceedings deceiuing the simple whereas a fair distinction if it might take place would make all friends Sometimes indeed you shew vs the Church clad in her glorious apparrell that thereby we may take notice of her but what if Briers rend her cloathes and dirt defile her goodly garments doth shee then cease to be a Church Surely no. Now it being obiected that the Church of Rome holdeth some Essentiall Principles of Christianity first you confesse it then contradicting pag. 4â— your selfe you deny it saying That shee hath professedly abiured Christ thereby also gaine-saying what euen now you granted namely that sheâ— professeth to feare God for how can shee professe to feare him and yet professedly abiure him CHAP. IX Whether Papists be Christians IN the next place Mr. Burton is so oppressed with the weight of the Bishops reasoning that hee sees not which way to turne himselfe Grant the Romanists to bee but Christians how corrupt soeuer and wee cannot deny them the name of a Church This is Gordians knot which because he cannot vntye Alexander-like hee cuts it But why should we grant them pag. 49 to bee Christians Not Christians Of what Sect then are they Iewes or Turkes or Pagans We know no other Sects in the world Nay they are worse than these yea worse than the Diuels themselues as hee affirmes in the next page I neuer yet heard by a sober man that any greater fault than Heresie was layd to their charge Now he that is an Hereticke is necessarily a Christian for he that is not a Christian cannot be an Hereticke Olim qui Haeretici non inter Tureas Epiâ—â—oâ— Winton Tortura Torti pag. 304. aut Iudaeos aut Ethnicos censebantur neque nisi qui de