Scripture and in what we must renounce these in deference to a higher Authority Whether Councils and their pretended Infallibility ought to silence all even the most just scruples against whatever they shall please to determine or whether Almighty God have not ordered the matter so that without some recourse had to our private Judgments even These cannot be received as a Rule of Faith to us but all imaginable care and an impartial examination of the thing always presupposed the decisive voice does of necessity belong at last to a mans own self M. de Meaux we see took a great deal of pains by a previous discourse upon this Topick to prepare his Proselyte for the ensuing Conference and he was no doubt in the right to pitch upon this as the main Argument for her Conversion It being indeed the very foundation and support of all the points in dispute between us the best and most cunningly contrived expedient to make men first embrace and then persevere in Error and Superstition For Protestants are usually apt to be squeamish and cannot digest Opinions contrary to Sense and Reason they sometimes grow so bold too as to question their Adversaries integrity Now what can be more satisfactory in such Circumstances than to be invited into the Communion of a Church which you are told in all even her most absurd Decrees is continually assisted with the unerring guidance of the Holy Ghost and put under a happy impossibility of deceiving her Members tho illnatured people should imagine her so wicked to desire and endeavour it This then being fixed as a first principle the understanding is sufficiently subdued for humane reasonings to interpose afterwards would be impertinent and sawcy and so the harshest and most unpalatable Doctrines go glibly down by the help of this excellent Vehicle the Churches Authority and Infallibility The same method is observable among the Missionaries here in England who after having tried us first with general schemes of the disputable points and then endeavoured to establish some of them particularly to little or no purpose do now at last take sanctuary in the Churches Despotick power and begin to seem sensible that either this or nothing must stand them in any stead The debate upon this Head first began to grow warm upon occasion of the Royal Papers which because bad money is not priviledged to pass unquestioned tho it have the King's stamp upon it were considered with a Judgment and Modesty becoming both a sincere zeal for Truth and a dutiful honour for the Person whose Royal Name they bore The several Answers Vindications and Replies upon this Subject have since been followed by M. de Condom's account of his Conference as suiting very well the business then in hand And when once the World had seen That it was so reasonable Mr. Claude should be heard what he could say for himself that I should not think this Translation needed any Apology or Introduction were it not for some Objections which I foresee it may be liable to These therefore I am concerned to remove that so the Book may be read without prejudice and not expose men to mistaken notions of things for want of a short but necessary Advertisement In the first place I desire the Reader to take notice that it is not to be expected Mr. Claude should in every circumstance express himself as the Church of England would do at this day The necessity of reforming from the Corruptions of Rome was easily discerned in several Countries and each National Church having sufficient power to reform it self was just and wise in asserting that rightful Authority upon so emergent an occasion But tho all did the thing yet all not conferring together they did it not by the same methods nor with like moderation and prudence It was enough that they all agreed in the main points and for the less material ones that they maintained such a Charity as not magisterially to censure or exclude one another for these little differences This was the very way whereby the Communion is still preserved inviolable among the Protestant Churches in all Nations and is a mighty argument that they retain the true spirit of Meekness and Christian Candor Therefore in the writings of Forreigners we must always make allowances for the Genius of that particular Church whereof they are Members and not be extremely nice and critical except where we find a disagreement in some very substantial point The Reformed Gallican Church and we are perfectly of one Judgment in all the most considerable parts of this dispute concerning the Authority of the Church As That she hath no right at all to require an absolute and implicit obedience to her determinations That the Scriptures are the only aud perfect Rule of Faith That every Man is concerned and obliged to examine by this Rule whatever is imposed upon him as an Article of Faith and if he finds the Doctrine conformable thereto readily and heartily to embrace and adhere to it but if evidently repugnant by all means to reject it That no Councils even the most General are to be received any further than they proceed in correspondence with this Diving Word That they may and actually have erred in deviating from it and consequently their Decrees ought to undergo some Examination before a Man complies with them But that notwithstanding this possibility of failing we ought to entertain very reverend and charitable presumptions in favour of such Assemblies and as not to cast them off without the clearest evidence of their having perverted the Truth so where no such evidence appears to submit with the most respectful humility imaginable looking upon them as excellent means for the preservation of the Christain Faith in its Vnity and genuine Purity After so punctual an agreement in matters of the greatest consequence what can it signify if in some few others of less consideration and more remote from the main business there seem a small disparity Mens Judgments must have some room left to exercise freely in and diversity of Opinions in Circumstantials like Divisions in Musick may very well be admitted without breaking the main Cords or doing the harmony any prejudice at all 'T is confest the Divines abroad have taken up some notions distinct from ours and particularly concerning the Church its Visibility Ministry Constitution and Discipline and it might well seene strange if Mr. Claude should so far forget his Education and Country as not to scatter some of these in his Writings But I hope Englishmen may enjoy the benefit of his Discourses without being obliged to subscribe every sentence or espouse every punctilio contained in them Whether the Gentlemen of the Romish perswasion relying upon the Authority of M. de Meaux his name called in so potent an Auxiliary from beyond the Seas out of a just diffidence of their own strength here They best can tell This I am sure of that it was but Justice to Mr. Claude and the Cause he
being reduced to a bare external profession Would God have sent us a new Jerusalem a new Sion a new City from above and make this up of Righteous and Wicked Hypocrites and true Believers indifferently Does not the Apostle understand it so when he says that Jerusalem is free that her children are not in bondage i. e. those who are the Children by promise that they shall not be cast out like Children of the bondwoman but shall be Heirs and that there is the same difference between this and the other Jerusalem that was between the two Wives of Abraham Sarah and Agar Would God make him a new Tabernacle a new House a new Temple and build it of holy and profane materials indifferently St. Peter did not intend it so You says he as lively stones are built up a spiritual house Would God separate to himself a new people a new Israel a new Nation from all other Nations and require from it no more than an outward profession which alone works no regeneration at all To shew that God himself never intended this observe how himself speaks This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days saith the Lord I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be my people We must take notice that all these names above mentioned are derived from the old figures of the Mosaical dispensation this the very reading of them plainly testifies Now this very thing makes directly against M. de Condom's definition For as it is essential to a figure to consist of something External and Corporeal so is it equally essential to the thing figured to consist of something Internal and Spiritual The Church therefore is no longer a Jerusalem an Israel a people linked together by outward bands only this would correspond well enough with the figures of the old Law but it is a people an Israel a Jerusalem united and compacted by the inward hands of the same Faith and the same Sanctification This very term the Church is of it self sufficient to confirm this truth M. de Condom acknowledges the Christians had it from the Jews which is true He says the Jews made use of it to signify the visible Society of God's people the Assembly which makes profession to serve him I agree with him in that too He adds That the Christians have kept it in the same sense I am not of that opinion This word when applied to the figure can signify no more than a visible outward Assembly but when to the thing figured it must of necessity imply something more it must denote an inward community a company not of Bodies only but Souls too for it is not enough that a confession be made with the mouth men must also believe with the heart unto Righteousness III. This will be yet more evident if you reflect on some other applelations given to the Church with relation to Jesus Christ For it is called His flock his sheep his spouse his sister his dove his well-beloved his body a Body whereof He is the head a Body that is his flesh and his bones a house built upon him as upon a Corner-stone the sanctified in Jesus Christ the Children which God hath given him and other expressions like these Now who can ever imagine these glorious Titles should import no more than an outward profession or that profane persons and reprobates can have any share in them It is his flock but what flock Fear not little flock for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom They are his sheep but how My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me And I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand It is his Spouse and his Sister but in what respect Thou hast ravished my heart my sister my spouse thou hast ravished my heart It is his Dove but why his Dove My dove my undefiled is but one the daughters saw her and blessed her She is his well-beloved but Wherefore his Well-beloved As the lilly among therns so is my beloved among the daughters It is his Body but how his body The edifying of the body of Christ till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ He is its Head but what sort of Head From him the whole body fitly joyned together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth maketh increase of the body to the edifying of it self in love It is his flesh and his bones but how these No man ever hateth his own flesh but nourisheth and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church It is a structure built upon him but how In him all the building fitly framed together groweth into an holy temple in the Lord. They are the sanctified in Jesus Christ but how sanctsied They are such as in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. They are the Epistle of Jesus Christ but in what regard the Epistle Written not with Ink but with the spirit of the living God not in tables of stone but in fleshy tables of the heart It is his People but what kind of people Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power in the beauties of holiness They are the Children which God hath given him But wherefore were they given him To exhibit them one day saying Behold I and the children which thou hast given me Thou hast given me power over all flesh that I should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given me Can any man after all this grant that the Church should be defined A Society making profession to believe c. or imagine that Hypocrites belong to this mystical Divine Body IV. If we search the Scripture yet further we shall find other Arguments in confirmation of this Truth Among these I reckon the predictions concerning the Church of Christ to be met with in the Prophets Thus it is described by Moses The Lord thy God will circumcise thy heart and the heart of thy seed to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul that thou mayest live There shall be saith Isaiah a high-way and a way it shall be called the way of holiness the unclean shall not pass over it but it shall be for those the wayfaring men tho fools shall not err therein No lion shall be there nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon it shall not be found there but the redeemed shall walk there And in another place All thy children shall be taught of the Lord and great shall be the peace of thy children In righteousness
purify her that she may be a peculiar people zealous of good works He will build her upon himself to be an holy Temple an habitation of God through the spirit He will wrde his laws in their hearts and engrave them in their minds He will take away the heart of stone and give them an heart of flesh a new heart and a new spirit How is it possible that nothing of all this should surprise the Doctors of the Romish Communion nor stagger their confidence of finding these Promises fulfilled as well in the bad as the good the just as well as unjust For in short if wicked men who have no more than external profession become by virtue of that profession really and truly Members of the Church the Promises concern them and they have a right to them in common with others for certainly they concern as many as make up the Body of Christ Now shall we say that notwithstanding these are drowned in vice Yet the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against them provided they can but counterfeit dexterously Shall we say that tho gangrened and putrified from the crown of the head to the sole of the foot it matters not They shall be without spot or wrinkle holy and without blemish so they do but continue in an external profession Shall we say that tho they have no Faith no Justice no Piety they need not trouble themselves Jesus Christ will be with them alway by the presence of his Holy Spirit provided they can but maintain a fair outside Shall we say that although they prostitute themselves to all wickedness and villany they need not be so much concerned Jesus Christ will not fail to redeem them from all iniquity and to make of them a peculiar people zealous of good works provided they be not wanting in dissimulation Here is no invidious aggravation in all this The Promises of Christ are plain matters of fact delivered expresly in Scripture in favour of the Church The defining of the Church by a bare external profession is another plain matter of fact to be seen through all the Writers of that Communion and particularly this discourse of M. de Condom The applying these Promises to the Church thus defined is what M. de Condom stitly contends for and makes it an inducement to peoples conversion So that I do not in the least exaggerate nor do I see what reply they can make To talk of two true Churches even in Christ's sight one to which the Promises belong as such viz. That of True Believers and another to which they do not belong as such viz. That whose essence consists in the external profession besides that it would be advancing a notion contrary to Scripture and Reason which inform us but of one true Church would be to argue to no purpose for wherefore should we argue about a Church to which the Promises of Jesus Christ have no relation Why should we invest with such glorious and divine priviledges a Church to which Christ hath promised nothing at all Or what reason have we with a blind obedience to submit to a Church where it may happen that wicked men and Enemies of God may get the upper hand and the Spirit of Christ bear no Rule in it To say we ought to distinguish between two kinds of Promises one such as respect inward Sanctification and Salvation the other respecting the perpetual Visibility of the Ministry and its Infallibility in the external profession of the Truth and that the first sort are peculiar to the Elect and true Believers in the Church but the other belong to the whole Body of that Society making Profession besides that this would be to start a Division of the Promises which the Scripture divided not for all made there are made to one and the same Body to one and the same Church without distinction besides that this would be to frame Promises that never were given such as a perpetual Infallibility of the Ministry in the external Profession of the Truth as we lately saw Besides this I say it is plainly to suppose that the Church as a Church hath no promises made her of Sanctification and Salvation and so consequently 't is to oppose Scripture which makes them to her formally under the name and title of a Church The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against my Church says Christ Christ loved the Church says St. Paul and gave himself for it that he might sanctifie it and present it to himself a glorious Church having neither spot nor wrinkle nor any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish The Lord says the Apostle nourishes and cherishes the Church all these Promises imply Sanctification and Salvation What can we then with reason say to this matter except what was said upon the foregoing Question to wit That we sometimes form an Idea of the Church by a Judgment of Charity so looking upon all external Professors in general to be true Believers and by this Judgment we include in our Notion abundance of People who really and indeed are not of the Church and consequently have no title to the Promises of Jesus Christ But this Notion is rectified by a Judgment of Reflection Exactness and Truths formed from the Idea's which Scripture and right Reason give us of the true Church restraining it to true Believers only and that the Promises of Scripture must be applyed to it in this last true exact Notion only Add to this that this true Church being intermixt with the counterfeit is not indeed so distinctly visible that we can say with certainly this or that particular man is a true Believer for this is proper to God alone but that it is however visible in a sure though indistinct manner which will go so far as to affirm That there are true Pelievers in such an external Profession Add further that this Church thus visible becomes more or less so according as Corruptions and Disorders are more or less predominant in their exteriour Society and that sometimes it is mightily celipsed partly through the prevalence of worldly superstitious and such like Persons partly through the infirmities of most true Believers but still that it never was absolutely invisible Add once more that this Church now upon Earth together with that in Heaven and that which shall spring up in succeeding Ages are all three that Vniversal Church we profess to believe in our Creed Add I say these three last Propositions to the two foregoing and so you will comprise all I have advanced hitherto you will be furnished with certain uncontestable Principles grounded upon Scripture upon Reason upon the Fathers and upon experience by the help of which you will be able with great ease to throw off all those difficulties usually started by the Romanists upon this Subject This will be further evidenced by what I am in the next place about to say Natural and necessary Consequences of the
Argument Mr. Claude returned that this ought not to be called a Jewish Argument because it concluded in favour of Christianity but the contrary principle rather deserved this name because it favoured the Cause and proceedings of the Jews Afterwards Mr. Claude said That if he would have recourse to History it will be no difficult matter to demonstrate that many Councils have fallen into Error and been mistaken in their Determinations Particularly among others the Council of Arimini which condemned the Consubstantiality of the Son that is his Eternal Divinity M. de Condom cried out Whether are you carrying us now Sir To the Council of Arimini When shall we have done if all those Histories must be discust Do not you know that the Council of Arimini was a forced packt Assembly You urge my very argument for me said Mr. Claude which is that a General Council may be packt Here is an instance of one consisting of four hundred Bâ—shops that was so M de Condom answered That those Bishops were compelled by the Emperors Authority who had sent Soldiers among them but afterwards when they were every one returned home they disclaimed what had been done and exprest their remorse for it Mr. Claude replied That many of them it was true did acknowledg they had done amiss but that very acknowledgment of and repentance for a Fault which M. de Condom affirms they shewed is a Confirmation of their committing it and 't is of no great moment to know upon what motives they committed it since it is plain that it was really committed And further every particular man's returning from his Error is a plain Indication that each of them thought himself under no Obligation of acquiescing in what had been determined when they were all met together in Council M. de Condom cried out That there was no necessity of medling with all these Historical Points and that it would divert them too much from the main business There is says he an easier way of deciding the matter The Subject of our Controversy is the first Principle of Faith in particular Persons This in your Opinion is the Holy Scripture in ours the Churches Authority Put the case in a young Child who hath been baptized but hath not yet read the Scripture I would know by what Principle this Child believes the Scripture to be Divine Particularly the Book of Canticles for instance which hath not a word of God in it Now this Child who is a Christian who hath received the Holy Ghost and Faith conveyed into him by Baptism and who is a member of the Church does either doubt of the Scriptures Divine Authority or he does not If he does not doubt then he believes it Divine upon the Churches Authority which is the first Authority he lives under If he does doubt then a man may be a Christian and yet doubt whether the Scripture be true Mr. Claude returned That he could say something to that supposal of M. de Condom That every baptized Child receives the Holy Ghost but was unwilling to stay upon a thing by the by or deviate from the main matter in dispute He would therefore satisfie himself with making a few Reflections upon what M. de Condom urged last The first said he is That the first knowledg of the Catholick Church given by the Holy Spirit to this Child is in all probability given by his Creed where he finds I believe the Holy Catholick Church And yet in the Creed that Article is placed after several other Articles of Doctrine For it begins with God the Father Almighty goes on with the Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost and after these comes in the Catholick Church Now this is a manifest proof that the belief of Doctrines is not wholly derived from the Churches Authority for else the Creed ought to be put together after another method and the first thing said should be I believe the Catholick Church and by the Catholick Church I believe in God the Father and so on My second Reflection said he is That you ought not to take it for granted as you do that the first Authority a Child begins to live under is that of the Catholick Church It being manifest That the first Authority a Child lives under is his Father or Mother or if you please his Nurses and that the Churches cannot take place till afterwards but does in some measure depend upon the other The Consequence whereof is That the first Authority which is the Paternal can as well lead the Child to Scripture as it can to the Church Then Thirdly said he It is the easiest thing in the World to retort your own Argument back upon your self thus The baptized Child either doubts of the Churches Authority or he does not if he does not then he believes it upon the Authority of Scripture for there is no other way for him to believe it with a Divine Faith And consequently it is not the Church that induces men to believe Scripture but Scripture that induces the belief of the Church which is the thing we contend for If he does doubt then there is a Christian that hath received the Holy Spirit and Faith conveyed to him by Baptism and is a Member of the Church and yet is in a state of doubt which is that first Authority whereupon all the rest of his Faith depends Now that the Child cannot with a Divine Faith believe the Churches Authority any other way but by the Authority of Scripture I prove thus If it be not by Scripture that he believes the Church and its Authority then 't is either by way of immediate Inspiration and Enthusiasm or by his Fathers or Mothers or Nurses Authority or by Argument taken from the very nature of the Church This could not be by Enthusiasm because the Holy Ghost does not proceed in such a method Nor by his Fathers or Mothers or Nurses Authority for you discern the inconveniences of advancing such kinds of Authority for the first Principle of Faith Nor can it be by proper Proofs and Arguments taken from the nature of the Church because as you in your Argument suppose the Child not yet to have read the Scripture so do I likewise in mine suppose him not to have considered the nature of the Catholick Church and to know no more of it than barely the Name It remains therefore that the Child either believes the Catholick Church by the Scripture which you will not grant or that he does not believe it at all but doubts of it and so you â—all into the same inconvenience as to the Church which you labour to reduce me to with relation to Scripture It may be said very truly That upon this Pinch a man might discern M. de Condom's Wit was not in the condition it used to be and that his natnral freedom of Argument and Repartee plainly slagg'd He put himself upon maintaining that the first Authority the Child lived under was that of the
Church and not his Fathers or Mothers Mr. Claude returned That this was a thing too evident to be denied that the Fathers and Mothers and those who take the first pains about educating the Child is the first Authority with respect to Religion and that he must at first of all learn from them that there is such a thing as a Catholick Church into which he must enter himself or such a thing as the Scripture which was from God and to which he must yield Obedience That being upon enquiry by what mean the Child can come to believe the Catholick Churches Authority there is a necessity for fixing either upon Inspiration or the Paternal Authority or the Scriptures which informed him concerning it M. de Condom answered That the Childs Faith in the Churches Authority was a Divine Faith because it was the Holy Ghost that wrought it in him Mr. Claude replied That the question was not concerning the efficient Cause which produced this Faith in the Child but concerning the Motive or Argument by which it was produced If M. de Condom's meaning were that the Holy Ghost wrought Faith in this Child without any Argument or Motive at all this were a sort of Enthusiasm and the Holy Ghost does not Influence People at that rate M. de Condom said there were indeed Motives of Credibility Mr. Claude returned hereupon That if he would allow the Child so much time as to examine those Motives of Credibility for the Authority of the Church and perceive their strength He himself would in like manner allow the same Child time to examine the Motives of Credibility for the Authority of Scripture and perceive the strength of them but in this case he must forego his Argument which proceeds upon a Supposition that the Child never yet read the Scripture But is not this true said M. de Condom That in these circumstances the Child either does or does not doubt of the Scriptures being Divine And is it not as true said Mr. Claude That in these Circumstances the Child either does or does not doubt of the Churches Authority For if you take the Child before he have read the Scripture I will look upon him too before he knows what Motives of Credebility there are for the Churches Authority It is your part to answer my Argument and the very same answer you give will serve me against yours But do you as you think fit I however will not scruple to give a direct answer to your way of reasoning The Child then may be lookt upon with Distinction as to three several times either before his Father have ever shewed him the Bible and informed him that this Book came from God or after his Father have told him thus much but before he himself have read it or lastly after that he hath read the Book himself As to the first of these times which is that your Argument looks upon him in it cannot well be said that then he either does or does not doubt for neither the one nor the other is strictly true according to your meaning Not to doubt of any thing signifies to be well assured of it Now before a man can be said to doubt or to be well assured that any thing is so or so he must first have some knowledge of the thing it self I can neither doubt nor be assured that such a Person is King of Spain unless I first have some knowledg of the Person So that your reasoning is by no means good that a Child either does or does not doubt of the Scripture's being Divine For there is a medium between these two to wit such as consists in a state called An Ignorance of pure negation He knows not as yet what the Scripture is nor hath ever heard talk of it To doubt or not doubt whether Scripture be Divine a Man must have some knowledg and form some Idea of the thing But the Child can never form any Idea of a Book he never heard once mentioned At the second point of time when his Father hath showed him the Bible and told him that Book is the Word of God but the Child hath not yet read it himself he believes it to be the Word of God but this he does not by a Divine but humane Faith because his Father hath told him so And this is the case of a Catechumen At the third point of time when he is supposed to have read the Book himself and felt the virtue and efficacy of it he believes it to be God's World but this he does not now by a humane Faith because his Father told him so but by a Divine Faith because he hath found the Divinity and Efficacy of it upon himself and this is the condition of a Believer M. de Condom laid hold of the word Catechumen and said that this was a Christian one already Baptized and actually admitted into Covenant with God Mr. Claude answered that by the word Catechumen he meant nothing else but a Child after Baptism at the time of his being instructed in the first Rudiments of Religion M. de Condom beat again upon almost the same things that had been said before constantly affirming it to be the Churches Authority that the Child received the Scriptures as Divine and that having received them as such from the Church he did afterwards receive the meaning and interpretation of them from thence also Pray Sir tell me said Mr. Claude then when a Child learns at first of all that there is a Catholick Church Is it barely a general Idea which consists in knowing only that there is such a thing as a Catholick Church without knowing where or which it is or does it determine him to that Church whose publick Assemblies he sees For if it be the former of these this as you would make it is a mighty wild and insignificant principle of Faith I know that there is a Catholick Church to whose Authority it is my duty to submit but I cannot tell where that Church is nor which is she this would be but an odd principle of Faith The Child said M. de Condom does certainly determine this Idea to the particular Church whose Assemblies he sees and in which he himself bears a part and does believe that to be the Catholick Church and not barely that there is such a Church Let us imagine then said Mr. Claude a Child born within a Church that is Heretical or Schismatical the Aethiopian Church suppose the first principle of Faith in this Child will be from the Aethiopian Church looking upon that as the Catholick From this Church then and from her Authority according to your Tenet he will receive the Scripture as Divine from her likewise he will receive the meaning and interpretation of Scripture and he must never afterwards believe himself priviledged to examine the determinations of his Aethiopick Church for fear of falling into the inconvenience and absurdity of fancying it impossible for him a private single
person to understand the true meaning of Scripture better than the whole body of the Church Tell me now Sir whether according to this principle this Child be not obliged always to abide within that Heretical or Schismatical Church Tell me what means you will contrive for him to get out of it It is evident then that your principle would serve as well to continue a Jew in his Judaism a Pagan in his Heathenism and a Heretick in his Heresy as an Orthodox Christian in the true Church To this M. de Condom replied that in the perswasion of that Aethiopian Child we must make a difference between that part which proceeded from the Holy Spirit and that which is the effect of prejudice and humane prepossession That the Holy Spirit 's dictate was in general that there was a Catholick Church somewhere or other but his supposal that the Church in which he was born was that Catholick Church proceeded from humane prepossession It is true he did from this Church receive the Scriptures and belived them to be Divine for no other reason but upon its Authority But afterwards as he was reading the Scriptures the Holy Ghost raised in him some scruples about the Church he was born in and by this means he came off from the Heresy and Schism he found himself insnared in Mr. Claude returned that M. de Condom must of necessity either retract his principle or confess what he now alledged to be utterly impossible Because this Aethiopian neither can nor must be allowed to understand the Scriptures any otherwise than in the sense and interpretation of his own Church by whose Authority it is that he believes them to be Divine and from whose hands he receives their meaning so that when he reads Scripture there can never start up any scruples in his mind against the truth of his own Church because he never expounds any Text of Scripture but in agreement with the sense of that Church about it Now if on the other side your meaning be that this person expounds Scripture of his own head and according to his own judgment so taking it in a sense different from that of the Church you at the same time make him forego the principle that you have all this while been contending for and it is not you only that make him forego it but you do besides maintain that the Holy Ghost himself makes him forego it and all those mighty inconveniences you exclaimed against vanish into nothing He added moreover that what M. de Condom said last justified the measures the Protestants had taken in relation to the Church of Rome for altho that had been believed to be the Catholick Church in the time of our Infancy tho we had received the Scriptures from her and believed them to be of Divine Authority yet must we not be blamed for making a difference between that part of this belief which proceeded from the Holy Ghost and that which was the effect of humane Prepossession and Prejudice We cannot be found fault with for having admitted some Scruples against the Truth of this Church as we read the Scriptures and for having upon this accout withdrawn our selves from her Communion M. de Condom said the Cases did still differ in this circumstance That the Ethiopian when he left his own would betake himself to the Catholick Church whereas the Pretended Reformed have not put themselves into any other Communion at all You courted indeed Jeremy's the Patriarch of Constantinople but he would have nothing to do with you The separation was not from our selves said Mr. Claude and that is enough to shew that we have not separated from the true Church If Jeremy the Patriarch of Constantinople would have nothing to do with us as you say that was to his own loss and he did not do as he should have done in it Upon this the Company rose and the Conference which lasted some time longer grew a great deal more confused several things were then spoken of M. de Condom exaggerated much and pretended to draw a parallel between the separation of the Protestants and that of the old Hereticks particularly the Arrians and Macedonians that set up new Churches by themselves Mr. Claude compared the Protestants behaviour to that of Christ's Apostles when they separated from the Jews that as the Apostles relied on Scripture against the Jews who relied upon Ecclesiastical Assemblies and their Authority the Protestants did the same against the Church of Rome He said the Arrians maintained that the Consubstantiality of the Son of God determined by the Nicene Council was a Novel Doctrine and that many other persons had in truth exprest themselves very unadvisedly concerning the Divinity of the Son among others he instanced in Origea Justin Martyr and the Council of Antioch As for Origen M. de Condom said he was a suspected Author and the Council of Antioch said he was an Arrian Council to which Mr. Claude replied that he was much mistaken for that Council was held before Arrius his time and yet rejected the Term Consubstantial As to Justin Martyr How Sir said he a Martyr speak amiss of the Divinity of the Son of God! I will never believe a word on 't You may believe what you think sit Sir said Mr. Claude but for all that the thing is even so Afterwards M. de Condom put himself upon the Invocation of Saints and Prayers for the Dead For the first of these he told them Mr. Daille had allowed it to be Thirteen hundred years old and Mr. Blondell acknowledged the second to be of great Antiquity Mr. Claude replied it was no great wonder if the Church of Rome which had collected and Cononized the Errors and Superstitions of former Ages had picked up some that were of a good old standing But he ought to have said withal that Mr. Daille had made it appear that for Three hundred years together there was not to be found the least footsteps of Invocation of Saints and especially that there was not any manner of ground for it in Scripture That he acknowledged Prayer for the Dead to be one of the oldest superstitions but there was a mighty difference between the practice of the Primitive Christians and the modern devotions of the Romish Church And after all it was an Error contrary to the principles of Scripture M. de Condom betook himself again to the Comparison between the Protestants and Hereticks of old inferring from thence that they and their Church was new and upstart Mr. Claude shewed him that this prejudice was extremely unjust and of very pernicious consequence Unjust because on one hand it placed the advantage on the strongest side and those that have most of their party whereas the Scripture teaches us quite contrary That we must not follow a multitude to do evil For the strongest side are continually taxing others with making a new Body and a new Church Unjust secondly because a false Antiquity may be
one and the same Religion without any variation which is exactly what Christ promised Therefore this is not the Church of Jesus Christ This Church hath forsaken the Supreme Authority and Infallibility of the Church of Rome and refused to pay obedience to her decisions on the contrary the hath taken upon her to examine those Decisions and hath done all that in her lay utterly to subvert this Tribunal which is so necessary to the subsistence of the true Church Therefore she is not the Church of Jesus Christ Of these Objections especially hath M. de Meaux made his Book to consist and because this of mine is made publick only with a design to answer that it is not fit I should prevent the reading of it in this Preface nor forestal the judgment men may make of my Answers when they see them at large I shall think it therefore sufficient to say in general by way of preparation That all these pretended Principles which the Gentlemen of the Romish Communion take the freedom to suppose are every one of them false and sophistical and capable of being confuted more ways than one because all built upon a false and vain foundation For in truth what greater vanity can there be than to go about to form an Idea of the Church after the pattern of a Civil Society The Civil Society is a humane contrivance that owes its birth to natural instinct under the Government of a General Providence and is kept up and preserved by Rules of Justice and humane Policy The Church is a Divine and Supernatural work born only of the Blood of the Son of God and animated only by his Spirit His hands have made it and his particular Providence watches over it and preserves it The Laws of the Civil Society do not properly respect any more than the outward man they never make it any part of their End or business to regulate mens hearts or alter the inclinations or inward motions there all within they leave perfectly free and are satisfied with an outward observation which comes within the reach of man's power The Laws of the Church do chiefly regard the inward man their design is to sanctifie the heart and fix themselves especially in the soul which are effects above any power of man and can belong to none but God only The matters in which the Civil Society is imployed are meerly temporal such as we call the Goods of Fortune Honour Trade the Exercise of Arts and Sciences and other things of this kind which may be cognisable by men and brought under their Jurisdiction But the matters in which the Society of the Church is concerned consist in Mysteries conveyed to us by a Supernatural Revelation in Laws imposed upon the Conscience in the internal and external practice of Christian Vertues Now all these things are Heavenly Spiritual unchangeable having no dependance upon the will authority or declaration of men but solely and immediately upon the will of God and his declaring them to be such To make a man a true member of the Civil Society there is no more required than to seem so in the eyes of the world who can pass a judgment only on the outward appearance without being able to dive into the heart To be a member of the Church it is required that a man be so not in the eyes of men only but of God too who aâ— the Scripture expresses it trieth the very hearts and reins and will not be satisfied with a pare outside The design of Civil Societies is that every man may according to his quality and station enjoy the publick Priviledges that his Personal Rights and Properties may be preserved intire that each particular person may live quietly and peaceably under the protection of the whole Body and these are Advantages not out of the power of men to give The end for which the Church is designed is everlasting Salvation a Heavenly Paradise the happiness of a life to come which are all Advantages not within the power of men to confer In the Civil Society private men ought rather to suffer injuries that are put upon them than disturb the peace of the whole Body because such injuries may be endured and yet not approved and besides if they do it the evil is not past all redress for God who protects the innocent and oppressed is able to right them and recompence their losses with interest In the Church it is far otherwise where the Conscience must acquiesce and a quiet submission cannot be given to a lye an error or an unjust thing without approving it and when it is approved the evil is past redress for God will avenge that fault and nothing can make us amends for the loss of our Eternal Salvation Besides that the peace we hereby allow the whole Body is so far from a Blessing that it is the worst of Evils being in truth no better than a War against God I repeat it therefore once again That there is not in the World a greater falsity nor a more sophistical imposture than the framing such a notion of the Church after the model of Civil Societies The case standing thus who does not perceive that all the conclusions from this false supposition fall to the ground and utterly vanish A man must not after this fancy the Church to be a Body merely external nor that all its essence consists in a bare Profession nor that these Definitions given us of it which run upon an outward profession of the same Faith a participation of the same Sacraments a submission to the same Pope without allowing internal Graces any share are good and valid definitions nor that wicked men worldlings and hypocrites are Members of Jesus Christ's true Church All this would do if the question were concerning a Body or contrivance merely humane as the Civil Society is But when we discourse of a thing that is the work and contrivance of God and must bear some proportion to the excellency of its Author we must affirm that Faith Hope and Charity and in one word all the parts of true Regeneration are essential to it and that this consists of the Faithful and Elect only excluding thence the Hypocrites and Reprobate We must not afterwards fancy the Church so be a body or company of men visible at the same rate that Kingdoms and Commonwealths are Liâ—â—an so as to distinguish plainly and without danger of mistake the very persons whereof it is composed This were allowable provided the Church consisted in an outward appearance and bare profession only But we must affirm it to be visible in the midst of dissemblers as honest men are visible when mixt with those that act otherwise or to make use of a Scripture instance as the good Corn is visible tho mingled in the same field with Tares that look like it The Promises of Jesus Christ must no longer be applied to all the exterior Body made up of a mere profession nor must
the perpetuity of the Church be imagined to mean a continuance of this exterior Body in the same condition without undergoing any alteration or a constant equal succession of Priests People Sees and Councils This might be admitted if all this exterior body were the true Church of Jesus Christ if that were not mixt with worldlings and wicked men who change the Church as to outward appearances or if it's Ministry were sure to be always intrusted in the hands of good men But the case being otherwise these Promises must be confined to the true Believers and the Church conceived to subsist for ever in this mixture of wicked persons and consequently that it shall subsist sometimes among the publick corruptions of the Ministry to which Almighty God sets bounds as his wisdom sees fit for the preservation of his Children We must not any longer believe a supream visible and speaking authority in the Church to be necessary for putting an end to differences and disputes nor upon this pretence allow Ecclesiastical Assemblies to be infallible or forbid the faithful to examine their determinations This might pass if the Church were I reserved as Civil Societies are by rules of humane policy or if some temporal advantages were the only thing enquired after or if the matters so determined required only an outward compliance as those in Civil Societies do But now that the Church is under a protection infinitely more effectual than all the wisdom of Man now that Salvation is the thing in question and a submission of Conscience the thing required it must be confest that since Divine Revelation ceased there is no further need of any other supreme infallible Authority besides that of the Scripture which is the Churches Law its Oracle and perpetual Rule a Rule plain and clear in what it expresses in all things necessary to be believed plain and clear in its silence with relation to other things not necessary to be believed It must be owned that since God does not call men to Ministerial functions immediately and by himself it may happen that these Functions may generally be exercised by Reprobates and to suppose that such people as these who can challenge no share in God's Promises to his Church are infallible would be the most palpable absurdity in the World We must acknowledg that since it is so uncertain whether the men that make up these Assemblies are themselves really of Jesus Christ's Church it would be not only rash but wicked to receive their Decrees implicitly and submit to them without any Examination at all because this were really to put our Salvation upon the venture which ought to be infinitely dearer to us than any thing in the World and which if once lost can never be made amends for again Lastly we must not upon these pretended Principles take up Prejudices against the Protestant Churches nor tax them with Novelty because they are not united to this visible exterior Body which was before the Reformation or because they do not shew that uniform succession of Sees and Councils and the profession of the same Religion without any alteration at all and every thing as was practised before nor pretend they have subverted a Tribunal necessary for the subsistence of the true Church because they refuse to acknowledg the Church of Rome's Authority and to comply with her determinations These several charges upon us might be tolerably well laid if a man could assert that the Church consists of all this exterior body as it might be asserted if a Civil Society were the matter in question But being that body must be distinguished into two parts the one consisting of good the other of ill men the one of good Corn the other of Tares the Protestant Church cannot be called new if it only oppose this latter part which had gotten possession of all the outward advantages to wit the Ministry the Sees the Churches the Councils the Schools and in one word the Exterior Profession and which had changed and corrupted all these For is there any necessity that a Church should groan under the same oppression in order to being the same with a Church that was before Is there a necessity of lying under the Tares that choak'd and encompassed the Corn in order to being of the Corn And are not men the same Children of Jacob without being among the same strangers among whom that Family hath been The Protestants have not one jot the less really and truly a succession of Sees of Councils and the profession of Religion for not having that part of them which was earthly and unclean I acknowledg they have given quite another aspect and appearance to the House of God by this cleansing but still there is the same Ministry the same Sees the same Assemblies the same Profession not with respect to the corruptions that appeared in them but in regard of the Christian Order which still continued under all this filth and nastiness The vessels of the Temple are still the same only they are washed made clean and restored to their natural use And as for that pretended Tribunal of the Romish Church which the Reformation has subverted it never having any more foundation than what was imaginary and merely humane there is no reason to complain of the Protestants for not submitting to it because they would thereby have done wrong to that of the Scripture which is Jesus Christ's true Tribunal fixed and to continue for ever in the midst of his people But this shewing the many differences between the Church and Civil Societies is not the only method of confuting these Gentlemen's Principles Take which way you will their falsity and weakness is easily discovered and they are likewise attended with this inconvenience that as soon as one of them is overthrown all the rest fall with it Overthrow for instance but that one principle that the true Church must be an exterior visible Body even to the pointing out of the particular persons whereof it is composed and at the same time you overthrow all those definitions they give of it which include bad men as well as good and make reprobates to be no less members than the Elect you overthrow their application of God's Promises to this whole Body you overthrow its perpetuity in this Condition by virtue of those Promises you overthrow the necessity of this pretended external Succession upon which they lay such mighty stress you evacuate the supreme Authority and Infallibility of Church Assemblies and the blind obedience required to their determinations The case is the same with all their other principles particularly which must of necessity either all stand or all fall together I might truly say that you can no where observe a Systeme more effectually destroyed in the several parts of it than this is in the Book now published by me For there is not any one of the propositions that help to make that Systeme but I have confuted it substantially by Arguments that
amount even to a Demonstration Which way can any one maintain that Definition of the Church which goes upon a bare outward profession and makes it consist of bad as well as good men and which Stapleton Bellarmin Cardinal du Perron and some other Controversial Divines look upon as a principal point after having observed what I have written on this subject in the second question of the Letter to my Friend and the Examination of M. de Meaux's ninth Reflection What pretence can men have for carrying on the Churches visibility so far as to a plain particular and constant designation of mens persons that help to make up that Body after having considered what is said to this purpose in my Third Question and in the Examination of M. de Meaux's Eleventh Reflection How can men fancy that Jesus Christ's Promises belong to this exterior Body composed of good and bad men promiscuously after what I have written to this purpose upon the fourth Question and the Examination of the Twelfth Reflection Which way can the External Succession be defended in the sense these Gentlemen understand it after having weighed my answer to the Second Part of M. de Condom 's Discourse and compared it with my Examination of the Eighth and Thirteenth Reflection What can be sâ—â—d in behalf of the Supreme Authority Church Assemblies pretend to and the ready Obedience to them without any trying their decisions which these Gentlemen would make us believe ought to be paid them after having compared the Relation of our Conference with what I have written on the Six first Reflections I must confess the strength of my Reasons may possibly receive some disadvantage from the manner of my delivering them and that it required a more skilful hand than mine which might have spoke with all the elegance and address of my renowned Adversary But yet I dare aver that even in my plain way and in the midst of all my bluntness there will be found enough to satisfy and convince my Readers That the Systeme treated of is upon many accounts quite destroyed both as to the whole and as to each of its parts I am sensible this Systeme is a thing contrived with abundance of cunning and skill that it was never the invention of one single Brain that they have made it look as specious as the thing could possibly bear But all the skill and cunning in the World can never give a thing so great a lustre as Truth and it is plain that That Systeme can never be true which is repugnant to the evidence both of Scripture and Reason I may add too that notwithstanding all the pains taken to contrive it as strong as might be they are forced to leave it with many weaknesses which it was impossible for them to conceal Nay such a Systeme particularly is This which contradicts experience and contradicts it so far too that were the Church of Rome it self for whose advantage it was first establish'd to be tryed by these Principles that compose it she could not make her party good Let us if you please venture an experiment upon that principle which asserts the perpetuity of the same Exterior Body Will you take the confidence to call that of the three first Ages the same Body with the modern Church of Rome where there is not the least tittle to be found of direct Invocation of Saints and Angels in the publick service of the Church where there is not the least addressing to Images and Pictures in their worship where there is no prohibition of the Cup to the Laity nor of the use of Scripture in the vulgar Tongue without leave granted by the Ordinary nor of Praying in a Language which the people do not understand where we find nothing to the contrary but that the Scripture is the only and the sufficient Rule of Faith in all things necessary to Salvation where we meet with no such number of Sacraments as seven no use made of Papal Indulgences no necessity of Auricular Confession no Elevation of the Host that the people may prostrate themselves in adoration to it no Transubstantiation nor Real presence made Doctrines no mention of the Church of Rome's being the Mother and Mistress of all other Churches nor of I know not how many things besides which are of very considerable importance Will you call the Church of Rome as it stands at this day as it looks upon the opinion of the Mâ—llenaries to be erroneous as it prohibits giving the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper to little Children as it believes the beatifick vision of God antecedent to the last Judgment as it forbids the Clergy to Marry will you call this I say the same Exterior Body with the Primitive Church which believed and practised directly the contrary To call this the same Body is like Theseus his Ship which was always called the same Ship tho there was scarce a Plank in it all that had not been changed A Second experiment may be made in that Principle which relates to the Succession in Episcopal Sees as these Gentlemen are pleased to understand it For how can they ever maintain this Succession in the See of Rome which they look upon as the very Original and Centre of Church-Unity while they agree as they do that many of those Popes were intruders against all Law and Custom and consequently false Popes such as Baronius calls Violent seizers of the Apostolick See unlawful Vsurpers of the Papal Name and Chair False Popes which only served to make the times they lived in notorious And now seeing this intrusion continued for almost one whole Age and the call to all Ecclesiastical Functions depends upon the See of Rome what must we think of those which proceeded from these false Popes and those that followed after them How can they make good this Succession in the person of Vigilius who by their own confession was an Usurper of the See over Sylverius and a Schismatick excommunicated he and all his party that adhered to him by Sylverius the rightful Pope Which adherents were not only all the Clergy of Rome but all the Archbishops and Bishops of the Empire excepting only four Bishops that were banisht with Sylverius and joyned with him in signing the sentence of Excommunication Sylverius dyed Vigilius kept the Papacy still and yet the Excommunication was not taken off It is acknowledged to be a just and valid sentence and yet from these excommunicated persons are all the Popes Patriarchs Primates Archbishops and Bishops descended ever since Baronius in the relation of this Accident endeavours all he can to deprive us of the Conclusions we draw from it He tells us therefore that he guesses Vigilius acted a part all that while and that being informed of Sylverius his death he of his own accord resigned the Popedom usurped by him before and at the same time got the Clergy of Rome to chuse him into it again This conjecture he grounds upon four
the curiosity you have to see what I wrote upon the same subject the next day after our Interview M. de Condom having profest it was not his desire that what past between him and me should be publickly talked of I thought my self under an obligation to confine what I had written to my own Study And this hath been hitherto very punctually observed by me But now since he hath thought fit to give out Copies of his I have reason to believe that in this respect he leaves me perfectly to my liberty and is well satisfied I should do the same thing with mine I have too great an opinion of M. de Condom's Wisdom not to follow his Example in this particular and I promise my self from his Equity that he will not find fault with me for treading in his steps But because he hath been pleased to impart to us that Discourse also which he had with Mademoiselle de Duâ—as in private the day before our Conference you will think it convenient that before I transcribe my Relation I should first make some reflections upon That Were this a discourse of such a nature as common occasions or accidents are used to produce where a man speaks without preparation or design and delivers himself with all the freedom imaginable I confess it were unjust to examine it strictly and by rule But seeing this was composed by M. de Condom with a prospect of obliging Mademoiselle de Duras to change her Religion and which seems a studied piece a Discourse which he hath joyned to the account of our Conference as a considerable part of what past in this matter Lastly a Discourse committed to Writing upon supposal that it may be useful to others and for that purpose made in some measure publick I cannot forbear looking upon it as a work of premeditation and returning some answer to it accordingly Besides that you and I are concerned as to what Mademoiselle de Duras hath done to desire to know whether she had sufficient reasons to forsake your Communion and embrace the Romish and the examination of this Discourse will be a very proper means of clearing that point to us Now it may be reduced to two principal Parts In the first M. de Condom makes it his business to shew that the Catholick or Universal Church which we profess to believe in the Creed is a Church thus defined A Society making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and govern it self by his word Whence he infers That it is a visible Society He pretends also to make it appear that to this Church thus defin'd belong all the promises found in Scripture In the Second He labours to answer an Objection drawn from what happened to the Church of Israel heretofore in which we often see the true Worship of God to have been changed and corrupted and both the People and their Guides to have fallen into Idolatry These two Parts Sir we will prosecute in order and by applying our selves to what is most material in them will endeavour by the assistance of God's Grace to make the Truth so evident as shall remove all difficulties The first Part of M. de Condom's discourse examin'd Instead of granting the Ministers says M. de Condom to believe all the Fundamentals of the Faith we shew that there is one Article of the Creed they believe not which is that of the Universal Church 'T is true they say with the mouth I believe the Catholick or Universal Church as the Arrians Macedonians and Socinians say with the mouth I believe in Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost But as there is reason to accuse them of not believing these Articles because they believe them not as they ought nor according to their true sense so if we shew the Pretended Reformed that they believe not as they ought the Article of the Catholick Church we may truly say that in effect they reject so important an Article of the Creed You must know then what is meant by this expression The Catholick or Universal Church and upon this I lay for my ground That in the Creed which was only a bare declaration of Faith this Term must be taken in its most proper and most natural signification and such as is most used among Christians Now all Christians by the name of the Church understand a Society making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and govern it self by his Word If this Society makes this Profession 't is consequently visible That this is the proper and genuine signification of the word Church such as is known by every one and used in common discourse I desire no other witnesses than the Pretended Reformed themselves The sequel will declare whether the scandal of dealing with that Article of the Universal Church as the Arrians Macedonians and Socinians do would not better agree with the Character of such as follow M. de Condom's Opinion than the Reformed Ministers This we shall presently be able to judge of and to that purpose four Questions must be examined The first is Whether the sense of that Article in our Creed ought to be restrained according to M. de Condom to the Church here on Earth or extended farther Secondly Whether this be a good and sufficient definition of the Church upon Earth A Society making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and govern it self by his word Thirdly Whether this Church upon Earth be visible or invisible or whether it be both considered in a different sense and different respects Fourthly To what Church the Promises of Jesus Christ do belong whether to that defined by M. de Condom or to that which we are about to define These four Questions will include not only all the plausible things M. de Condom hath said in this first part of his Discourse but likewise all the other sophistical Objections that are usually put to us upon this subject Quest 1. Whether the sense of that Article in our Creed ought to be restrained according to M. de Condom to the Church here on Earth or extended farther In order to resolving the first Question you will please Sir to give me leave to explain briefly that Article of our Creed concerning the Catholick or Universal Church and how we understand it that so you may be able to judge whether M. de Condom had reason to accuse us of not taking it in its true sense And this I shall immediately enter upon We think then this being such a profession of Faith as ought to embrace its object entire and in the utmost extent and not in any one part only that by the Vniversal Church must be understood not barely the visible body or company of the Faithful at present upon Earth but that body or company of all the Faithful which have been are or at any time shall be from the beginning to the end of the World Thus the Universal Church is That which is already
signification When we say in plain terms the Vniversal Church nothing can be more natural than to understand the whole company of Gods children as opposed to the men of the world and children of this generation Nothing more natural to Faith and especially a Confession of Faith than to interpret a term expressing the object of Faith not in a restrained sense which gives only a partial Idea of the thing nor in an ambiguous sense which gives a confused and doubtful one but in a sense that shall be perspicuous and full As to the common use of the word M. de Condom must pardon me if I say there is a fallacy in his argument For supposing it true which really it is not that all Christians of this and some ages last past had confined the term Vniversal Church to the Church at present upon Earth suppose the pretended Reformed to use M. de Condom's own expression did commonly understand this term so yet still 't is a trick to attempt to adjust the sense of the Creed by that which some latter ages have fixt upon it 'T is just as if I should go about to explain the terms of our language by what will be in vogue two or three hundred years hence For who does not see that the acceptation alters and words are mightily removed from their first and genuine signification What I have alledged from St. Austin and the Trent-Catechism plainly convict M. de Condom of a mistake either in matter of fact or point of right If the matter of fact deposited before be true That all Christians understand by the Church a Society making profession c. He is out in point of right for St. Austin and the Trent-Catechism shew that the Church in our Creed is to be otherwise understood But if this Rule hold that the word in the Creed must be taken in such a sence as is most in use among Christians he errs in matter of fact for St. Austin and the Catechism taking it as we see 't is manifest the Christians of their times did not understand it as M. de Condom does of a Society making profession to believe c. It is questionless more reasonable to say that the term Vniversal Church in our Creed should be interpreted in a way most agreeable to Scripture stile but this very thing quite overthrows M. de Condom's pretensions For the Scripture when speaking of the Church as the Creed does with regard to its Universality does always mean the whole body of the Faithful and not one part only Thus St. Paul hath taken it in that excellent passage God hath given Jesus Christ to be the Head of the Church which is his body the fulness of him that filleth all in all In the fifth Chapter of that Epistle he repeats it no less than six times in the same sense The husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the Church The Church is subject to Christ as the wife is to her husband Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it that he might present it to himself a glorious Church not having spot or wrinkle Christ nourisheth and cherisheth the Church This is a great mystery concerning Christ and the Church Thus again Col. 1. Christ is the head of the body the Church who is the beginning the first-born from the dead So lastly Heb. 12. Ye are come to Mount Sion the city of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem and to an innumerable company of Angels to the general assembly and Church of the first-born which are written in Heaven For the Apostle does not mean the Church Triumphant only as M. de Condom would perswade us but the whole body of those whom God hath enrolled in the Book of his Predestination whether already taken up to Glory or such as are already justify'd and sanctified upon Earth but not yet glorify'd or those whom he will call effectually hereafter and justifie in order to their Glorification I conclude this Question with one observation which ought not to give M. de Condom any offence because the greatest demonstration of respect to an adversary is the removing every little objection made by him I observe then that his Argument which contains all this part of his Discourse neither does nor according to the rules of reasoning can conclude any thing at all He would know the meaning of Vniversal Church in our Creed We must take this term says he in the most proper signification and such as is most in use among Christians I grant it Now all Christians as he goes on by the name of Church understand a society c. and for this I desire no other witnesses than the Pretended Reform'd themselves Who does not perceive that this concludes nothing He should have said All Christians understand by the Church Vniversal a society c. and of this I desire no other witnesses c. Thus he should have delivered himself if he would argue regularly All this while M. de Condom's proof all through the sequel of his discourse runs not upon the term in his Proposition The Vniversal Church but on that single term the Church between which there is a wide difference for the Church may well be taken in a sense that the Vniversal Church can by no means admit of Indeed had M. de Condom said All Christians by the Church Vniversal understand a Society making profession c. and of this I desire no other witnesses than the Pretended Reformed themselves we should have answered him That the Pretended Reform'd never understood by the Vniversal Church a Society making profession to believe c. because according to their Tenets the Church Universal rose a great way further than this Society making profession c. So that we should immediately have put a stop to his Argument and he could never have effected what he hoped for from it Quest 2. Whether M. de Condom's be a good and sufficient definition of the Church upon Earth A Society making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and govern it self by his Word By this decision of our first question I think Sir it appears that M. de Condom had no ground for accusing us of taking that Article of our Creed concerning the Vniversal Church in a wrong sense Let us now proceed to the second Enquiry whether M. de Condom have given a good and sufficient definition of the Church upon Earth in calling it A Society making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and govern it self by his Word Now this Question being of such mighty importance that upon the determination oâ— it the whole Controversie betwixt us and the Romaâ—â—â—â—â— touching the Church does entirely depend I was amazed to see 〈◊〉 he did not think fit to clear it either to Mademoiselle de Duras or 〈◊〉 other Proselytes for whom the perusal of this Discourse was 〈◊〉 Methinks when men go
about to make Converts they ought 〈…〉 pretence of saving them a little trouble to decline any instructiâ—â—◠〈◊〉 may be necessary for their satisfaction and being perswaded 〈…〉 Church of Rome's pretensions are just should not fear to have the Grounds of them examined but suppose they will be found strong and impregnable How comes it to pass then that M. de Condom was pleased to pass by so fundamental a Question And how could be satisfy himself with barely propounding his definition and saying only that This was what all Christians understand by the name of a Church However I shall be bold to say that this is neither all nor indeed the main part of what Christians do or ought to understand by it and that his definition is defective by at least one half to which therefore I shall oppose another which I assert to be what all Christians ought to understand by the name of Church viz. A Society of such persons as making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ do truly and effectually believe it and making profession to govern themselves by his word do really and effectually govern themselves by it Our business now is to know which of these two is a good and lawful definition whether that given us by M. de Condom in agreement with the Doctors of his Communion or this of mine in agreement with all Protestants That is to say we are concerned to know whether the nature and essence of the Church consist barely in externals and appearances or whether something of reality be not required whether Hypocrisy and superficial Cheats can make men true members of the Church or whether something of truth be not necessary also to know whether wicked men worldlings and reprobates provided they make an outward profession and can but dissemble handsomely are real members of Christ's mystical body or whether this priviledge do not belong to those that are truly the Faithful Here lies the pinch of the Question which in my opinion would have resolved it self had but M. de Condom propounded it fairly For methinks 't is very hard to acquiesce so far in his definition But not to insist on this first prejudice let us examine the matter throughly I. The Scripture represents the Church to us as the product and execution of God's eternal decree of Predestination or Election and besides it teaches us that God in electing and predestinating men does it not to a mere outward profession of Faith and Holiness but to an effectual Faith and true Holiness And consequently effectual Faith and Holiness are of the nature and essence of the Church and not an outward profession only The consequence is manifest For the best way to discover the nature and essence of any thing is to take it according to its own Author's first Idea and design supposing that he does not as we are all agreed God does not swerve at all from his design in the execution of it The Church then being God's own work the surest means to discern what that is will be to inform our selves of God's design if we can but find out that Now this we find in the Election Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ says St. Paul in the name of the whole Church who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world And a little after He gathers together in one all things in Christ both which are in heaven and which are in earth even in him In whom we have obtain'd an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him c. To this relates that saying of Christ I pray not for the world but for them which thou hast given me for they are thine Where by opposing the world for which he does not pray to those whom his father had given him 't is plain he understands the Church and his meaning is that the Father hath given them to Jesus Christ because it was his by his purpose of Election This appears further from the words that immediately follow And all mine are thine and thine are mine for this mutual reciprocation of Good between his Father and Him if I may so term it is capable of no other sense but this in the sequel of his discourse My Church are thine Elect and thy Elect are my Church they who are mine as my people are thine as thy Elect my Communion and thy Election have the same measures the same extent and do both comprehend the same persons So that the Election is nothing else but God's design and project of the Church and the constituting of a Church is the putting that design of Election in Execution Blessed says David is the man whom thou chusest and causest to approach unto thee that he may dwell in thy courts These Courts are the Church of God and men enter into them only by vertue of God's Election God hath saved us says the Apostle and called us with an holy calling not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began We must therefore come to the knowledg of the Church by his Eternal purpose and to know that we must consult his Holy Word He hath chosen us says St. Paul that we should be holy and without blame before him in love Having predestinated us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself and that we should be to the praise of the glory of his grace He does not say a bare profession of Holiness but a real Holiness he does not say an appearance of adoption but a true adoption he does not say an external conversion but an internal That is such as may illustrate the glory of God God hath predestinated us to a true Faith and not an appearance of Faith to a sincere and substantial Regeneration not to a shadow or colour of it 'T is past a doubt then that a mere outward profession cannot give us a full definition of the Church but true Faith and Regeneration are necessary parts of the Idea we have of it II. The Scripture when speaking of the Church with reference to God gives it such appellations as can by no means be restrain'd to a more profession or allow us to think it can be composed of wicked persons It calls the Church Jerusalem which is above the Heavenly Jerusalem the City of the living God the Holy Hill of Sion the Israel of God A Holy Nation a peculiar people the inheritance of God the habitation of God through the spirit the house of God the temple of God His holy Priesthood His spiritual house His royal Priesthood His purchased possession the people of God Tell me now I pray if the energy of these expressions is not admirably answered by
band and that which constitutes the Church we are driven to maintain one of these three things Either that such a profession does confer the spirit of Christ Or without Christ's spirit one may still be his Or that the things which make it to be a Church do not yet make it to be Christ's The first of these would be absurd For what more so than to assert ' That a bare profession of Christianity confers the Spirit of Christ At this rate every Hypocrite is a partaker of that Holy Spirit The second That one without Christ's Spirit may still be his directly contradicts Saint Paul's assertion which positively declares That he who hath not Christ's Spirit is not his And for the third That the things which make it to be a Church do not yet make it to be Christ's it may be M. de Condom may not like this himself I for my part look upon it as a very strange position For can one say that what precisely constitutes the Church does not make it Christ's This is as much as to say that the Church is not his Body nor his Spouse nor his well-beloved nor any of all those things the Scripture calls it In a word 't is to say that it is not considered in this quality any part of his concern If M. de Condom frame to himself such a Church as this let him at least give us leave to enquire why he does afterwards appropriate the promises to it For what right can the Church have to these if as such it be not Christ's nor hath Communion with him These two Propositions are evidently destructive of one another If the Church as such be not Christ's it has no share in his promises if it hath then it is his as a Church Let him chuse which he please if the first our Controversie is at an end for to what purpose should we disspute of a Church which he says is Jesus Christ's and yet is not his nor hath any title to the promises If the second let him not talk any more of a Church considered as such being constituted by a bare outward profession For this not conferring Christ's Spirit cannot make the Church his or if it can St. Paul does not say true when he tells us expresly That if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his IX The sundry passages of Scripture concerning Hypocrites who cloak themselves with such an outward profession abundantly prove them not to be of Christ's Church He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkness And a little after In this the children of God are manifest and the children of the Devil whosover doth not righteousness is not God neither he that loveth not his brother Again afterwards He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love St. Jude speaking of these Hypocrites calls them Spots in our feasts of charity clouds without water trees without fruit twice dead plucked up by the Roots Jesus Christ himself says In the last day he will profess unto them he never knew them What colour then have we for making such members of the Church which is Christ's Body But that place of St. John removes all the difficulty They went out from us but they were of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us but that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us What a plain difference is here made between being among us and being of us being among us is proper for Hypocrites that are mixed with the Faithful and joyn in the same profession Being with us is sincerely and truly to be of the Church for which something more than an outward profession is requisite X. We read in Scripture of a twofold Call one by the meer Preaching of the Word commonly termed an outward Call the other by the Preaching of the Word and the Holy Spirit both stiled an inward Call Of the first our Saviour speaks when he says Many are called but few chosen Of the second St. Paul Whom he did predestinate them he also cased and whom he called them he also justified Now the Church whose very name implies a Call must needs have been the effect of one of these two just mentioned But if defined by a bare profession it cannot refer to one or other of these nor can it answer the design of either It does not fulfil the end of the first for the Preaching of the Gospel does not call men to a meer Profession of believing Jesus Christ's Doctrine A Hypocrite is so far from complying with this Call that he rejects and mocks at it It does not refer to the second Call because the Spirit which calls with the Word is a Spirit of Regeneration and not bare profession What Call shall we refer it to then I know not any third the Scripture mentions not any and the nature of the thing will not admit of any We can consider God in such a case but according to two different capacities either as a Law-giver commanding exhorting promising and threating or as an absolute disposer of Events and so bringing to pass in us the thing he commands us But whether commanding us or whether working in to he never stops at a bare profession he goes on to the truth of Holiness and Faith his Word enjoyns it his Spirit produces it So that whether soever of these two Calls you suppose the Church to obey it must either proceed to a true Conversion or be no Church for the proper and natural signification of the word is a Called Society but no one ever called it to an outward profession and no more XI I suppose it is a maxim among all Christians That Jesus Christ hath no more Churches than one and that this on Earth together with that in Heaven make but that one thus much we learn from the Trent-Catcchisin it self A sure method then of discovering the true nature and essence of the Church upon Earth would be to search into that in Heaven for it is plain were these of different natures they would be no longer one but two Churches of a several species Thus much I think must be granted and so likewise must the Conclusion I deduce from it viz. That either the nature of the Church Triumphant must exist in a bare profession or that of the Church Militant cannot If the Churches Unity here below be a Unity of Profession an external Unity only and the internal one be but accidental then the Unity of the Church above must be External too and no more and that Internal one resulting from the agreement of hearts and wills no more essential to it than to this below Otherwise as was said before they must be two different Churches Let them be so kind then to clear this Point Whether we must believe that a true Piety true Regeneration and true Holiness are
Fountain that is the Church of Christ How shall we reconcile this Doctrine with M. de Condom 's who distinguishes between the Church of Christ and the predestinate as between a whole and it's part who counts the reprobates in too and blames us for restraining the Church to the number of God's Elect alone This being a point of consequence and able to determine all our Controversy concerning the Church I hope it may not be tedious to hear what St. Augustin says further upon it After having recited a passage taken out of â—t Cyprian's Epistle to Magnus he goes on thus The words of blessed Cyprian shew that he rightly understood the beauty of God's House in that he declares and proves both by the testimony of the Prophets and the signification of the Sacraments that this House is composed of men living in Peace and unity of Heart So that those envious uncharitable Wretches were not in this House notwithstanding they were baptised And by consequence Christ's Holy Sacrament may be both administred and received by men not in the Church of Christ because as appears by the Testimony of Cyprian none but the peaceable live in this Church It will not serve the turn to say they might baptize while they were hid they were not hidden from St. Paul when he said in his Epistle he rejoyced that Christ was preached even by such whether in pretence or in truth says he Christ is preached and I therein do rejoyce yea and will rejoyce Upon these considerations I do not think it reshness in me to affirm that some are in the House of God so as that they are themselves the very House that which is said to be built upon a Rock called his Dove his only One his beautiful Spouse without spot or wrinkle the inclosed Garden the sealed Fountain the Well of living Water the Orchard with Pomegranates and which HAth received the Keys the power of binding and loosing this House it is whose corrections if any man contemptuously behave himself against he is ordered to be to us as an Heathen and a Publicar Of this it is said Lord I have loved the Beauty of thy House and the place where thine Honour dwelleth He maketh men of one mind in an house I was glad when they said unto me we will go into the House of the Lord. Blessed are they that dwell in thy House they will be alway praising Thee and a world of such like passages This House is called the good seed bringing forth fruit with patience thirty sixty and a hundred fold This House consists of Vessels of gold and of silver of precious stones and incorruptible wood To this House 't is said Bear up one another in love endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace And the Holy Temple of God are ye For this consists of the true Believers and holy Servants of God dispersed throughout the Universe and all knit together in a spiritual Unity by the participation of the same Sacraments whether personally known to one another or not As for the rest they are said to be in the House but it is in such a manner that they belong not at all to the building nor have any part of that fellowship which brings forth the fruit of righteousness and peace They are here as the Chaff is among the Corn for we cannot deny that they be contained in the House because St. Paul says In a great house are vessels not only of gold and silver but also of wood and of earth and some to honour and some to dishonour I cannot imagine how St. Augustin'S sight came to differ so mightily from M. de Condam'S If we believe the latter by the Church must be understood a Society composed of good and bad men for he tells you to such a Society only are those passages of Scripture applicable Vpon this rock will I build my Church Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it that he might make it a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle c. If he refuse to hear the Church let him be unto thee as an Heathen c. Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven c. But if St. Augustin be to be believed we must take the Church in a quite different sense for a Society made up of none but righteous persons and true Believers because to such a one and no other do these passages belong In his Opinion the just alone are the House built upon a Rock the Spouse without spot or wrinkle they only have the keys and power of binding and loosing 't is their censures only that men ought not to despise if they would not be looked upon as Heathens and Publicans M. de Condom deduces his Arguments from these passages St. Augustin deduces his from the very same and yet their Conclusions are opposite to one another All that we have left to do then is either to correct St. Augustin by M. de Condom or M. de Condom by St. Augustin and of the two methinks the latter is the more reasonable Upon this ground then I will once more introduce that Father speaking thus We must not suppose that wicked men belong to Christ's body i. e. the Church because they do partake of the Sacraments corporally The Sacraments themselves are holy in such persons but they do but increase their condemnation because they administer and receive them unworthily Now they are not of that Company of Christ's Church which consists of his Members compacted together by bands and joynts and increaseth with the increase of God For this Church is built on a Rock according to that of our Saviour Vpon this rock will I build my Church But those build on the Sand as the same Saviour said Whoso heareth my Words and doth them not I will comapre him to a foolish man that built his house upon the sand Now lest you should fancy that the Church built upon a Rock is in any one particular place or that it is not extended over the whole Earth observe her complaint in the Psalm From the ends of the Earth have I cryed unto thee when my heart was in heaviness Thou hast set me up upon a rock She cries from the ends of the Earth therefore she is not in Africa and no where else she is set up upon a Rock therefore those must not be esteemed of her who build upon the Sand. There is some probability St. Augustin knew what he said and yet you see a passage of Scripture Ephes 4. abused by M. de Condom in favour of his Church made up of a mixture of good and bad men which this Father explains of the Church of the Just only as well as that other of St. Matt. 16. Vpon this Rock will I build my Church He teaches the same Doctrine in his Book concerning the Unity
of the Church The Church is the Body of Jesus Christ according to that of the Apostle for His body the Church whence it is evident that such as are not accounted his Members cannot obtain Salvation Now the Members of Jesus Christ are united by Love both to one another and to him their Head A little further answering the Donatists Cavils against the Catholicks for having persecuted them for having burnt their Bibles for having sacrificed to Idols I return the same answer says he which I have often done already That what you say either is not true or if it be it concerns not Christ's good Corn but the Chaff The Church does not perish for this which shall be throughly purged from these men at the last exact judgment I enquire after the true Church That is where she is that hears the words of Jesus Christ and does them that builds upon a Rock that thus hearing and doing does yet bear with those that hear and do not and so build upon the Sand. I enquire where the Corn is which must grow among Tares till the Harvest Matt. 13. not what the Tares have done or do I enquire where Christ's Well-beloved is she who is among the wicked Daughters as the Lily among Thorns Cant. 2. not what the Thorns have done or now do I enquire where the good Fish are Matt. 13. which till they are drawn to shore must be content to lye in the same Net with bad ones not what the bad Fish have done or now do Afterwards again Seeing both good and bad administer and receive the Sacrament of Baptism and the good only are spiritually regenerated become his true Members and make up the building of Christ's Body 't is plain that Church consists of the good only to which it was said As the lily among thorns so is my beloved among the daughters Cant. 2. For it consists of those that build upon a Rock that is that hear the Word of God and do it For this Reason when St. Peter acknowledged Jesus to be the Christ the Son of God he said unto him Matt. 16. And upon this Rock will I build my Church This is not therefore those who build upon the Sand i. e. they that hear Christ's Words and do them not For the same Christ hath said Matt. 7. He that heareth my words and doth them I will liken him to a wise man that built his house upon a rock And a little before the end of the Book There are many who communicate with the Church in the Sacraments yet are not in the Church Else if when one is excommunicated visibly he be then only separated from the Church when he is restored to the Communion we must say that he is actually stated in the Church again But suppose his return be hypocritical That he bring a heart inveterate against the Truth and the Church must we own that such a one is perfectly reconciled and become a true member of Jesus Christ because the outward formalities of receiving him in have past upon him God forbid As therefore he is not really of the Church tho readmitted into the Communion so if before Excommunication he had a Soul at enmity with the Truth he was in truth separated even then And thus it is that the good and I bad seed grow together in the same common Field until Harvest that is the Children of the Kingdom and the Children of the wicked one If after all this M. de Condom shall still maintain that an outward profession and participation of the Sacraments are sufficient to make men members of the Church we may take the confidence to tell him that his Authority is not yet advanced so far with us as to be reckon'd of equal weight with St. Augustin's In his Book against Cresconiâ—s Good and bad men he says may baptize but God alone who is eternally good can purifie the conscience The wicked are condemned of Christ without the Churches knowledg as having an evil and a polluted conscience and are not even now in Christ's body the Church For Christ cannot have such for his members as are condemned and therefore they Baptize even while they are out of the Church themselves God forbid such monsters should be reckoned among the members of the only Dove God forbid such should enter into the inclosed garden whose keeper can never be imposed upon In like manner does this holy Father speak in his Book of the Christian Doctrine Tichonius the Donatist haveing busied himself in laying down some Rules for the understanding of Scripture St. Augustine takes them into examination and this is what he says to the second of them His second Rule concerns the twofold Body of Christ that is an improper term for in reality none are his body who shall not continue with him for ever He should rather have exprest it concerning our Lords true or mixt body or true and counterfeit or some such like term For though hypocrites seem to be of the Church they are so far from being with him to all eternity that they are really not with him now He might then be allowed to lay down this Rule but he should have phrased it concerning the mixt Church And afterwards Tichonius his seventh and last Rule is concerning the Devil and his body For the Devil is the head of the wicked and they in some sort his members appointed to undergo with him the punishment of everlasting fire as Christ is the head of the Church which is his body and appointed to eternal glory with him As therefore in the first Rule entituled Of the Lord and his body when the Scripture speaks of one and the same person we must distinguish carefully what belongs to the Head and what to the Body so as to this last Rule we shall find things spoken of the Devil which do not so much belong to Him and his Body Now that Body of his is composed not only of such as are visibly without but those also who though in truth they belong to him yet continue for a time mixed with the Church I make no doubt but so many passages of St. Augustine together with those other proofs I instanced in before for the resolving this question may make M. de Condom a little uneasie though he think never so well of his own principle But in short it concerns not only this Bishop but all others that take this dispute into consideration to know once for all what mighty difficulties they must overcome before they can establish the pretended Authority of their Church That is to say in one word it is fit they know that in order to compass this design they must triumph over Scripture triumph over Reason triumph over the Fathers but above all they must declare open war with St. Austin particularly The Throne of Rome's Hierarchy is never capable of being set up but upon these foundations or to speak more properly upon
these ruins Qu. 3. Whether the Church upon Earth be visible or invisible or whether both together considered in a different sense and under different respects Thus much I think Sir may suffice to give a resolution of the second question which was whether the Bishop of Condom's definition of the Church upon Earth was a good and sufficient definition viz. A Society making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and govern it self by his word or whether it was defective and required something else to be added to it You see the necessity of handling this subject with some exactness for it being our business to know what Society we must be of to obtain Salvation and both sides agreeing that it is the true Church being it concerns us to know to what Society the Promises of Jesus Christ are to be applied and both sides agreeing that it is the true Church The first thing in reason to be done is to form an abstracted Idea of the true Church before it be applied to any particular subject that so this may serve for a Rule and direct us to know at least what that true Church is which we enquire after We know in general that there is one true Church we know also that this Church is a Religious Society but when we come to define it particularly every one knows his own method of doing it This therefore is the first thing to be determined not only to avoid equivocation but to prevent a continual deviation which may otherwise happen through the whole dispute by means of a mistake in the beginning and this having given occasion to the second question the dispatching that already will mightily facilitate our enquiry into the third The thing then to be examined is whether the Society of true believers who only are the Church be visible or invisible or whether both in some senses and respects For the resolution of this Query I shall not say that this true Church being a Society of men and so a body that hath its external order as all other Societies have hath likewise consequent to that a visibility common to it with all other bodies Thus much is necessarily supposed for the Believers are not Angels nor invisible Spirits but in this respect like the rest of mankind But this visibility being supposed we must further enquire Whether there be not yet another which gives it the Character of Jesus Christ's true Church so that a man may say That the body we see and which is the object of our senses as the true Church of Christ In this there would not be the least difficulty had not God's design as to his Church been disturbed by the enemy of our Salvation For since God calls true Believers only and since as we have already shewn such alone constitute the Church were it not for what happens from some other thing there would not be among the outward Professors of Christianity either Hypocrites or Hereticks or Superstitious or worldly or profane persons And thus none but such as are truly the faithful being to be found among them this outward profession would be a sure means and an univocal Character to know the true Faith and Regeneration by and consequently to know the true Church of Jesus Christ as such So that we need say only thus much That although the Church were not immediately visible by its inward and cssential form because none can immediately see mens hearts but God only yet it would be visible by its external form as by a sure distinguishing Character For it might be seen by its Ministery and profession of Faith in Christ and known to such a degree that a man might infallibly and positively say That is the Church But we all know that is Jesus Christ sowed his good seed in the field of the world so to use the expressions in the Parable the enemy hath likewise sown Tares That is that with the true Believers are intermixt vast numbers of men who 〈◊〉 no more than the appearance and outside of Christianity and so make the outward profession to be a note subject to mighty uncertainties and equivocation This God hath permitted for reasons known to his own wisdom and hence have risen on one side false Churches and on the other false members of the true I mean whole Communities who have wrongfully assumed to themselves the title of a Church and single persons who wrongfully assumed the title of the Faithful So that the Church now like all other things liable to hypocrisy and dissimulation cannot be truly known without much difficulty And whereas according to the nature of the thing the Churches visibility and invisibility ought to lye here that its essential and internal from cannot be seen immediately and of it self but may by the mediation of its external form instead of this they do now consist further in a discerning between true and false a distinguishing betwixt that which is real and sincere and that which is counterfeit We must therefore examine how this distinction is to be made because in it consists the visibility or invisibility of the true Church Whether we must make it between several external bodies differing from one another or between several persons externally incorporated into the same Body I bâ—gin with the former and affirm that the discerning between several bodies depends upon some certain marks or characters whereby that body on whose side the true Church is may be distinguished from another where it is not I shall not now shew what those Characters are for this is another dispute between the Church of Rome and us which we need not here engage our selves in It is enough we are all agreed that such marks there are and that by them this distinction must be made That which most concerns us to take notice of and which I desire you would observe with a very particular attention is that after we have found this Body or external Society on whose side the true Church is we may and in reality do form to our selves two notions of it one proceeding from a mere Judgment of Charity the other from a Judgment of Reflection By the Judgment of Charity we look upon all within the Body to be true Believers indifferently For the searching of hearts being not in our power but peculiar to God Charity makes no distinctions but supposes that things are in truth what they should be and upon this supposition we call all that society the visible Church speaking simply and absolutely By the Judgment of Reflection having consulted the Rules of Scripture and the light of Experience we come to know that there are Tares mixed with the Wheat and that it is past a doubt that among these outward Professours are abundance of hypocritical superstitious ambitious and prophane people Hence we correct our first notion and term this Society a visible mixt Church Thus in the same external body we distinguish two different Bodies one of true
Believers which we look upon as the true Church of Jesus Christ the other of hypocrites and worldlings who have only the shadow and shell of Faith and Regeneration and consequently do not belong to Jesus Christ's true Church This is the original of all that ambiguity betwixt the Romanists and us M. de Condom according to the principles of Cardinal Bellarmin and Perron and most of the Doctors of his Communion does in this Dispute judge of the true visible Church by that notion of Charity which without making any difference includes bad and good true and false Believers And we judge of the true visible Church by that other termed the notion of Reflection which excludes hypocrites and worldlings and confines it self to true Believers only He supposes without offering any proof for it that there is no other visible Church than this whole Body of Professors and that That of the true Believers is invisible which we deny He proves that the true Church of Christ to whom the promises belong is a visible Church which we grant We must take leave therefore to tell him that he supposes what he should prove and proves what he ought to suppose which must needs entangle the matter in dispute and render it mighty intricate and obscure But what great matter is it you 'l say as to this Dispute whether a man judges of the true visible Church by the notion of Charity or that of Reflection I answer if the matter had concerned only the Duties incumbent on the Church or exhorting and instructing men in those Duties it would signify very little which of these two notions we followed For the duties incumbent on beth good and had are much the same they all hear the same Word partake of the same Sacraments and are all under the same Obligations But the present controversy does not concern the duties and exhortations to them but the investing the Church in some particular rights and priviledges allowed her and applying to her the promises of Jesus Christ So that it highly concerns us in this case not to follow a notion which may lead us into mistakes and give away these priviledges and promises to men that have no manner of right to them It nearly concerns us not to follow a notion which may occasion our falling into errour under pretence of that name the Church There is an absolute necessity of clearing an ambiguity which if not cleared may prejudice our Conscience and put our Salvation upon a hazard Now Sir let us see I beseech you whether of these two notions is rather to be received in this dispute And this will easily appear if we consider That the notion followed by M. de Condom is grosly false in one of its parts as taking for true Believers persons who really are not so and can pretend to truth no further than as it is conformable to this second notion That it is not grounded upon an exact knowledg of its object but merely upon a charitable supposition which if niecly look'd into is not true it self And so there can be no robable argument for allowing evil men and hypocrites a part in Christ's Promises Those false plants which our heavenly father hath not planted Those tares which the Lord hath not sown in his field but the enemy râ—se by night to cast in privily Men not at all concerned in that Idea of the true Church which Scripture gives us and consequently not of it In a word this will easily appear that the notion we follow is the most exact the most certain the most agreeable to the Idea's given in Scripture and the only one that can bear any proportion to the Promises of Jesus Christ and the dignity of the true Church But it may be said Was not M. de Condom in the right to say there was not actually any visible Church but that which he defâ—â—es A Society making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ and govern it self by his word And so no other than that which comprehends good and bad true Believers and Hypocrites And was it not fair then to make use of this notion in the Controversy I answer the true Church consisting of true Believers only is not indeed visible by any certain and distinct sight we can have of it so as to affirm positively and personally such or such are of the true Church When we would carry on this distinction to particular men disguise and hypocrisie put a stop to it so that in this sence the true Church will always continue invisible till Jesus Christ come to make a full and perfect separation betwixt his own Corn and the Enemies Tares which shall not be done till the end of the World Thus it is not visible not only immediately by its internal form in mens hearts but even by these external Characters as to certain and distinct visibility because dissimulation and deceit often makes these marks to be doubtful All this I grant But for all this we may and must say that the true Church is visible truly visible in other senses and respects For first of all it cannot be denied that it is visible at least materially as they say because the true Believers that appear visibly in publick Assemblies partake of the same Sacraments and live in the same external Order The faithful do not conceal themselves nor decline the Holy Exercises of Religion but on the contrary frequent them and shew themselves more than other men remembring that of St. Paul Not forsaking the assembling of our selves together Besides It is plain that tho the true Church be mixt with wicked men in the same profession yet is it visible in this very mixture as the wheat is visible tho in the same field with the tares and the good fish in the same net with the bad according to the parables in the Gospel or as true Friends are visible tho mixt with dissemblers and flatterers This mixture indeed hinders us from an exact distinction of persons but still we may with great certainty distinguish and discern two sorts of persons We are not sure which particular men are true Believers and which Hypocrites but we are sure that there are true Belivers as well as Hypocrites and this is enough to prove the Church visible according to the Scriptures and t. Austin's Hypothesis Nay I will go further yet for 't is true that upon some occasions Hypocrites do plainly distinguish themselves from true Believers and upon some other occasions true Believers do plainly make a personal distinction of themselves from Hypocrites For instance when we see men drowned in vices inconsistent with true Faith when we see them throw themselves into Superstitions and Errors that are contrary to the true Doctrine and Worship of God tho they abide still in the same Congregations with others and communicate in the same Sacraments yet this makes a negative distinction so as we may say these are not the true
Believers that is not of the true Church On the other side when we see men undergo long sharp tryals without being removed either from the profession of the true Doctrine and Worship or from that of Righteousness and Holiness in this respect here is made a positive distinction and such as makes us acknowledg that these persons are of the true Church of Jesus Christ I confess these distinctions are not always either so certain as never to admit of mistakes nor so universal as not to confound one with another For a man may judg rashly of both sorts either for want of knowing mens particular circumstances and the motives they went upon or some other way and it is never seen that all Hypocrites discover themselves at once But however there is great use to be made of this distinction and such a visibility of the true Church results from it as is in some sort personal according to our Hypothesis Now Sir you see whether M. de Condom was in the right to take it for granted as if it were a certain truth that there was no visible Church but such a one as he defined that comprehends good and bad true Believers and Worldlings contrary to the Scriptures and St. Augustin's sense You see too whether he was in the right to maintain in this first part of his discourse that we deny the Churches visibility The Pretended Reform'd says he will not have the visible Church to be that which is called Jesus Christ's Body Which is then that Body where God hath established some Apostles c. Which is that Body where God hath placed several Members and different Graces the Grace of Ministry the Grace of Teaching the Grace of Exhortation and Consolation the Grace of Ruling Which I say is that Body if it be not the visible Church We never denied the visible Church upon Earth to be Christ's Body not the whole Body indeed for there is one part of it collected in Heaven and another not yet in being but still that part upon Earth is Jesus Christ's Body so the Scripture calls it and we are so far from thinking as he saies that quite contrary we prove Hypocrites and Worldlings to be really no part of the true visible Church by this very Argument that it is called in Scripture the Body of Jesus Christ For this reason the visible Church is thus defined in the 27th Article of our Confession of Faith The company of the Faithful agreeing to follow the Word of God and that pure Religion grounded thereon and who constantly make proficiency therein Now this Company of the Faithful thus described is and is called the Body of Jesus Christ If M. de Condom had been at the pains to read Calvin he would find him speaking of the visible Church in the 4th Book of his Institutions Chap. 1. thus It is no ordinary commendation the Scripture gives it when 't is said Ephes 5. 26 27. that Christ hath chosen it and separated it for his spouse to make her without spot and wrinkle his body and his fullness M. Mestrezzat speaking of the visible Church in the same sense says The instruments made use of by God to build his Church are the Pastors and Ministers of his Gospel Ephes 1. 23. according to that of St. Paul Ephes 4. He hath given some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the gathering together the Saints for the work of the Ministry for the edifying of the Body of Christ And a little after The same Body of Christ which is invisible as to the Election of God and inward sanctification of the heart enjoys the visible Ministry of the Word and from it brings forth fruit unto salvation For we must not look for the Church of God out of this visible state of the Ministry of the Word The same thing I say with relation to that other passage of St. Paul where he says Ephes 5. 25 26 27. Jesus Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word That he might present it to himself a glorious Church not having spot or wrinkle They will not have it possible says M. de Condom Conference Page 5. for this place to be understood of the visible Church not yet of the Church on Earth He must pardon me if I say he is mistaken for tho we understand by this the Church already in Heaven yet do we besides understand the visible Church upon Earth and M. Mestrezzat speaking of this passage saies expresly That St. Paul there sets forth the Church as one and the same Body receiving Grace and Glory and makes Glory to be the perfection and accomplishment of Grace It is evident then that the visible Church is in our Opinion Jesus Christ's Body or which comes all to one that the Body of Christ which is the true Church upon Earth is visible I should now conclude my Third Enquiry did I not think my self under an obligation to remove some difficulties which may be started upon it For it may be said the Ministry is common to good and bad and consequently it makes a Church composed of good men and bad I answer that the Ministry and the use of it is common both to good and bad comes to pass only by accident and from the treachery of the Enemy Of right it belongs to true Believers only and its genuine design was for them Jesus Christ gave it for the assembling of the Saints and instituted it to increase and cultivate his good Corn. If the Tares use it or to speak more truly abuse it this is contrary to his intention For his hand never sowed these but the enemy's who rose by night for that purpose It is sure then that the Ministry of it self does not make up a Church composed of good and bad men because such only as it was intended to gather are to be reckoned of his visible Church Now the Ministry is designed to gather the true Believers and truly Righteous not the worldlings and hypocrites in the least If they thrust themselves into the Assemblies it is not the Ministry that calls them but the spirit of the world that sends them thither An invincible argument that there is no other visible Church but what consists of true Believers because they are the only persons call'd to Religious Assemblies and it is not Jesus Christ but Jesus Christ's enemy that thrusts others into them To give you yet further satisfaction as to this Point permit me Sir to interpose between M. de Condom and St. Augustin not to set them at difference but endeavour to reconcile them M. de Condom assures me that Jesus Christ in that passage Tell it the Church spoke of a visible Church a Church visible by the exercise of the Ministry St. Augustin on the other side assuâ—es me that he speaks of
the Church consisting of true Believers only I reconcile these two by inferring That the Church of true Believers only is a Church made visible by the Exercise of the Ministry M. de Condom tells me St. Paul speaks of a Church visible by the use of the Ministry when he says Christ loved it and cleansed it with the washing of water by the word St. Augustin tells me The Church of true Believers only is spoken of in this passage I can reconcile these two no other way than by concluding that then the Church of true Believers only is a Church visible by the use of the Ministry M. de Condom teaches me that in this passage Thou art Peter and upon this rock will I build my Church Jesus Christ denotes a Church visible by the Exercise of an External Ministry St. Augustin instructs me that it denotes the Church of true Believers How shall these two be made agree but by concluding that the Church of true Believers then is a visible Church exercising an external Ministry If you still desire an Argument of more strongth remember that the visibility attributed to the Church in Scripture cannot possibly be any other than that we assign it For as on the one hand we are taught there that the true Church consists of true Believers only so do we learn there also that true Believers are mixt with wicked men and hypocrites It is there we find the similitudes of Chaff amongst the good Corn of bad Fishes jumbled together with the good of Tares sown among the good Wheat Now whatever we deliver concerning the Churches visibility and invisibility is grounded entirely upon these two principles The second difficulty that may be siarted is whether the visibility we assign to the Church be sufficient to maintain Christian Fellowship to comfort the Faithful and bring them to Salvation I answer that this would not be sufficient indeed to establiâ—h the Church of Romes pretensions such as absolute authority over mens Consciences Infallibility of Councils a blind obedience to their Determinations and this very insufficiency as to that shews us the injustice of such pretensions But I say that in its kind this visibility is sufficient either for the maintenance of external Communion or for the joy and consolation of the Faithful and the bringing them to Salvation In order to that we need only know ourselves to be in Communion with the truly Faithful For tho we know that there is a mixture of ill men among these yet shall we still continue in the external Communion with them out of respect to God's Elect We shall still bear the disorders and offences given by others patiently we shall still receive the same Sacraments and partake of other fruits of the Ministry with comfort as knowing that the efficacy of these acts does not depend upon the wicked but are blessings that belong to the righteous And our not being able to make certain and personal distinctions of men will add to our caution that we suffer not our selves to be surprised into any superstitions and errors that would insinuate themselves under the plausible title of the Church And thus the visibility we allow the Church is abundantly sufficient It might further be demanded whether it can so happen that the Church may at any time lose the visibility of its Assemblies and so become in this respect perfectly invisible I answer that although we acknowledg Almighty God can whenever he pleases utterly disperse the persons of the Faithful and still keep them in this wretched condition by the methods of his own Providence yet we do not think this ever did so happen The Christian Church hath lain under great persecutions but tho they were never so great she hath constantly had some where or other some Assemblies and some exercise of the Ministry publick or private and however her Martyrs and Confessors have all along made her visible so that she cannot be said absolutely ever to have disappeared quite from the sight of men Yet we must own that in this respect there have been several degrees of her visibility that is the Church hath been more or less visible as her Assemblies have been held and her Ministry exercised with more or less freedom We must own too that not any particular Church upon Earth can promise it self a perpetual visibility no nor so much as a perpetual subsistence God removes his Candlestick from the midst of a people at his pleasure and he does it then when he hath no more Elect to call there There have been many instances of this in the World particularly in the Churches of Africa once so beautiful and flourishing but these are only the puttings out of some particular light and do not at all prejudice either the subsistence or visibility of the Christian Church in general The last difficulty to be urged is whether the Church can at any time lose the visibility of its Characters I mean that visibility whereby without descending to personal distinctions we are enabled to conclude that there are true Believers in this mixed Society so far as that we can not judge whether such be there or no I answer It not only may but often hath happened that the Characters by which we should in this respect come to know the true Church have been so mightily obscured that a man could not without much trouble and difficulty affirm that In this particular body it was that God nourished and sustained his true Believers and we shall find hereafter that M. de Condom himself owns enough to establish the truth of this assertion But still tho this be uncontestable as proved to be plain matter of fact we do notwithstanding acknowledg that the Church did never absolutely and entirely lose their visibility in this respect because as was said in answer to the Prejudices we do not think that ever so total an Eclipse happen'd that it could not in some measure be said This is the Society wherein God preserves some true Believers And here I cannot but complain of what M. de Condom does afterwards in his Discourse accuse us of saying that the visible Church sometimes ceases to be They are constrained says he to say that the visible Church sometimes ceases to be upon Earth And in another place This is the Church which your Ministers know not They teach you that this visible and exteriour Church may cease to be upon Earth But this is urging his charge against us too far So far are we from believing the visible Church ceases to be that we do not so much as say it ever absolutely ceases to be visible And yet there would be a mighty difference between saying she ceases to be visible and that she ceases to be at all The Sun the most visible thing in the World is often not visible to our eyes but yet he ceases not to be In the point of Real presence M. de Condom will own that the Body
foregoing Principles THE first Consequence Sir to be drawn from what I said is that M. de Condom hath been very unjust in upbraiding us as if we dealt with that Article of our Creed concerning the Universal Church as the Arrians and Macedonians do with those that relate to Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost which is to confess them with the mouth but in effect to reject them by not believing them as we ought Those Hereticks evacuate the Articles concerning Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost because they allow them a Divinity which is but a seeming and imaginary one only and thus they rob Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost of their Real Essence Can any man say we do thus by the Church we make it essentially to consist in true and solid Faith and Regeneration Is not this to make it real what may be said of such as make it essentially to consist in a bare outward Profession Is not this to make it no better than a Phantome a Shadow Is not this to confess with the mouth but in effect to reject it Does not this make all those great and noble Ideas given of it in Scripture dwindle into nothing Judge you Sir if you please to which of these two Parties M. de Condom's reproach is most applicable II. By all I have said concerning the Visibility or Invisibility of the Church you may know what an unjust accusation they load us with daily of making the Church utterly invisible upon pretence that we place it in true Believers only for if this accusation were true it would fall not upon us but upon Scripture upon the Fathers and particularly upon St. Augustine whose Principles we follow intirely But as St. Paul never thought of making a Church perfectly invisible though he said The foundation of God standeth sure having this seal the Lord knoweth them that are his and let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity so neither do we pretend to spoil her of her Visibility when we say the same thing he did As St. Augustin hath not made her invisible though he said all that was related out of him the same thing must be said for us But what can we think of this method of disputing which supposing the charge upon tryal to be a granted confest thing falls strongly upon proving the Church's Visibility and so Proselytes men upon this false supposition and those useless Arguments Do not you look upon this as a very fair way of proceeding III. Hence likewise you may perceive how unjustly they put that question to us Where our Church was before the Reformation For if the Church consist of true Believers alone as we have shown ours was then just where it is now i. e. in the common Field where Jesus Christ hath sown his Wheat and the Enemy by Night his Tares There is only a twofold difference observable One that before the Reformation that part of the Field where the Corn was sown was wider whereas now it is contracted into less room because in many places the Tares have driven away the Wheat and remain alone another that then in the places where Wheat and Tares grew together the Wheat was thinner and got less nourishment and the Tares quite contrary whereas now the Wheat is thicker and better cultivated The Field is the World as Christ says the good Corn are true Believers the Tares are the Children of this World Before the Reformation the true Believers were mixt with the rest in the same exteriour Profession as they are still but they were if I may so say stifled as it were with the great number of the other sort and the spiritual life they led had much of uneasiness by reason of the Corruptions in the Ministry which stinted them in their necessary Food and besides mixt many such things with it as were not only incapable of sustaining life but even prejudicial to it Whereas since the Reformation these same Believers being separated from the rest are by this means much disburdened of that which opprest them they are more at liberty the Ministry allows them the Food of heavenly life in a much larger proportion and gives it them more pure and free from strange mixtures and though they still continue among worldly men yet now they do not find near so much prejudice from them IV. Another Instance of this nature is commonly given us and how injurious it is you may discern by the Principles laid down before They bid us shew them these true Believers before the Reformation single them out say they tell us their names were they visible or invisible If even at this time when things are not near so confused none but God only can know distinctly and infallibly what particular men are the true Believers If their visibility consist only in ones being able to say with certainty there are true Believers and not in saying such or such are the men is it not a very unjust demand to examine us of past Ages when things were so strangely in the dark Would not any man of equity think it enough that we can shew how far soever the Ministry was corrupted that still the true Believers might subsist under it and is not this very thing a visible indication of the Churches perpetual Visibility that God hath not forsaken us V. Another necessary Consequence of the Principles now establisht is that in an exteriour Society carrying the name of a Church it may so happen according to the Notion we frame of it from a Judgment of Charity that the Ministry Ecclesiastical Dignities and Chairs as they are termed may come to be filled by Hypocrites Superstitious Worldly and interested Persons and that there shall be a great many more such as these in Office than good men For seeing God only can have a distinct and personal knowledge of true Believers and since he does not bestow these Offices immediately and by his own hand it may without question come to pass that both those that confer and those that take upon them these Offices may be the Tares sown in the Lord's Field A man cannot have any absolute certainty that this shall not be so because there is not any promise to the contrary and because on the other hand there are instances that it hath been so already To pretend this cannot be because it would hinder the Churches subsisting for ever is no Argument at all for if the Church consist properly of true Believers as hath been undeniably proved the perpetual subsistence of true Believers does not depend on the faithfulness of the Ministers nor the untainted purity of the Ministry except we suppose the Principle of a blind Obedience to the Ministers which is a false Principle and destructive of Religion as hath been made appear in the defence of the Reformation Indeed this ground being laid when once the Ministry is corrupted it must needs follow that the faithful are corrupted too because bound
Churchmen the Pulpits more zealous for Tales and Legends than the Word of God The Schools busying themselves with ridiculous Questions and Curiosities the Sacraments burdened with strange Ceremonies the instruction and edification of mens Souls wretchedly neglected and in a word the Gospel liberty changed into a temporal slavery This is what we mean by the state of the Church being interrupted this the ruine and desolation we bewail The Church hath not ceased to exist nor did she perfectly lose her visibility or her Ministry God forbid But both she and her Ministry have seen the natural state they ought to continue in changed and interrupted VIII Apply these principles now to our Reformation and then Sir you will discern that granting this supposition to be true that the Body of the Prelates invested in the ministry of the Church in our Fathers days and assembled in the Trent Council supposing I say that they delivered such determinations in points of Faith as are incompatible with Salvation Granting it to be true that they took away Christian Liberty by Anathematizing all who should refuse to believe and submit to those determinations as they did and by adding to all this violence and compulsion our Fathers had reason to look upon them as Ministers that had justly deprived themselves of all right to exercise their Ministry over them by such ill conduct and to give that power of the Ministry to others They had reason to look upon the party that adhered to these Prelates with such obstinate stiffness as a Body or Society of which a man could not positively say That is the particular Body wherein God nourishes and cherishes his Faithful and Elect. IX Hence likewise it follows that our Fathers are wrongfully charged with making a Schism and separating from the Church For it being sure that the Church consists of the Faithful only and besides that we are of opinion the Trent Bishops themselves broke the band of external Communion with sound Believers and brought things to such a pass that our Ancestors could not possibly joyn with them in the same Assemblies it is evident They were the Beginners of the Schism the Authors and makers of this lamentable division X. It signifies nothing to alledg that they were possest of the Ministry by an exterior and ordinary succession for the Ministry is not such a thing as men when once possest of can never forfeit their right to tho they abuse it never so much They enjoyed it by an external succession 't is confest but this succession with respect to mens persons continues no longer than we can say The faithful are under their Ministry When we cannot be sure of that any more from thenceforth the Prelates have lost their right and such a succession afterwards would be but as the succession of death to a disease or of night to twilight I do not say the Ministry it self is extinct God forbid but I say in such a case it devolves of right to that other part of the Society where the Faithful are The reason of which Truth is this That the Ministers are naturally the Church Representative And all their Authority is derived from the Body of the Faithful When therefore it happens that they break the band of external communion which joyns them to those Faithful it is plain they represent them no longer and the holding their Authority over them afterwards is a force and usurpation XI Lastly From the Principles we have established it appears how vain and ungrounded a scandal it is which the Controvertists of the Romish Communion are continually upbraiding us with of setting up a new Church For being the Church according to Scripture sound sense and the opinions of the Fathers is nothing else but the Society of true Believers To have set up a new Church we must have brought in a new Faith different from what Jesus Christ delivered to the World If they can convict us of being guilty in this point we are heartily content they should not only say we have formed a new Church but that we have formed a false perverse naughty Society and draw all the consequences against us that can be naturally drawn from that Concession But if we on the contrary have only rejected new Doctrines a worship that Christian Religion never was acquainted with and Errors brought into the Church since it was first established if we have only refined the Ministry and restored the Gospel to its natural lustre they ought to be just in acknowledgment that God hath made use of us for the preservation of his true Ancient Primitive Church and the rescuing it from oppression If it be true that the Trent Council have made Articles of Faith of such Doctrines and Practices as were never revealed to us by Christ may we not say that That hath set up a new Religion and consequently a new Church Let us judge of one another by this Rule of right reason and conscientiously examine the truth of what hath been done on both sides for upon such an examination the justice or injustice of taxing us with Novelty will depend THE SECOND PART OF Monsieur de CONDOM's Discourse EXAMINED THUS much I thought fit to say in Answer to the First part of M. de Condom's Discourse The Second will not detain us very long They made me says he some Objections concerning the frequent revolts of the people of Israel who had so often forsaken God the Kings and all the people as the Holy Scripture speaks during which the publick worship was so extinct that Elijah thought himself the only servant of God till he learnt from God himself that he had reserved to himself seven thousand men which had not bowed the knee unto Baal To this I answer'd proceeds he that for what regarded Elijah there was no difficulty since 't was apparent from the very words that it concern'd only Israel where Elijah prophesied and that the Divine Worship was so far from being at that time extinct in Judah that 't was there under the reign of Josaphat in the greatest lustre it had been since Solomon's time I shall not say here that the Divine Worship under the reign of Josaphat was not in such great lustre neither but that the Scripture informs us The high places were not taken away for the people offered still and burnt incense in the high places which was a worship forbidden by God But not to insist upon this I say in the first place This instance is a very good proof that the greatest part of this exteriour Society professing themselves to be the people of God that is ten tribes out of twelve were corrupted to that degree that Elijah complain'd he only was left Which shews that we must not always conclude Truth and Purity to be of that side where the number is most nor suppose it impossible for what we call the Visible Church to be corrupted at least as to the greatest part of Professors Secondly I
they themselves held one he said at London in the year 1653. so that the Synod of Charenton could not condemn them upon that account but merely for refusing to acknowledg that an entire Dependence and Submission was owing to Synods As for the Synod of Sainte-foy proceeded he if all the business had been no more than illustrating and explaining their Articles as Mr. Claude would have it what need these have been inserted in the Confession of Faith Could not this be done by an Act of a Synod without altering the Confession It is sure their design was to express that Article concerning the Lord's Supper in such ambiguous terms as both sides had agreed upon and each might interpret to his own advantage which hath been an expedient often attempted but to no purpose Now this is in reality not barely to explain and illustrate the Confession of Faith and by that means settle a mutual Toleration but down right to alter it And now added he all that men have to do is but to consider with themselves what opinion they ought to entertain of a Confession of Faith which a whole National Synod consented to alter That the matter between Mr. Claude and him was at last come to such a pass that the truth must presently appear on one side or other That the Principle asserted by Mr. Claude was a Principle of Pride and intolerable Presumption For is not this the very extremity of Pride that mere single private Persons should fancy themselves wiser and better able to understand the Scripture than a whole Ecclesiastical Assembly a whole Council put together And yet this was the unavoidable consequence of his opinion which allowed private Persons a Priviledge and Freedom to examine the decisions of Councils That an entire submission to the Church's judgment and a full and implicite Obedience to that was much more reasonable and argued more of Christian Humility than mens taking upon them to amend its Decisions It being now Mr. Claude's turn to speak he told them That their Discipline did indeed order such as refused submission to be Excommunicated after the last and final resolution had been given according to the Word of God in a National Synod Assembled But it was no part of the Discipline's meaning that this submission was due to the Authority of that Assembly abstractedly and as such but as he had before observed to the Authority of Gods Word according to which the Assemblies decision was to be formed and this ever implies an Examination The Excommunication therefore was just only upon supposal that the Word of God had been followed and never else That the Excommunications pronounced by Councils had not really any thing of Justice or Efficacy except when their determinations were founded on God's Word and when they were not so their sentences of Excommunication were unjust and returned directly upon the head of those that thundered them out according to St. Paul's Maxime If we or an Angel from Heaven preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you let him be accursed That if the Church of Rome pretended to no more than this our dispute with her would be at an end because then every man would still be priviledged nay obliged to examine whether the Decisions be agreeable to God's Word or no and consequently whether the Excommunications upon them be just or unjust That it was with this temper of mind that the Synod of Dort had condemned not the men whose Persons they never anathematiz'd at all but their Errors by demonstrating they were contrary to express Texts of Scripture That for his own part he lookt upon that as a very just Excommunication but the reason why he did so was that he saw it was founded upon Scripture and not upon the Authority of the Assembly themselves That it was true the Independents had once an extraordinary Assembly in the Year 1653. for the adjusting their Confession of Faith but however they did commonly disavow the use of Colloquies and Synods and for this very reason the Synod of Charenton condemned them and not for refusing a blind and absolute Obedience to what the Assemblies should decree in matters of Faith as by the Act it self is abundantly evident For the Synod of Sainte-Foy I cannot imagine said he why you will needs have it to intend an alteration in the Confession of Faith I mean as to any essential part of it for National Synods are not at all impowered to do this and if that at Sainte-Foy had ever attempted it all the Protestants in the Kingdom would have disclaimed the thing I own they had power to put illustrations and explanations into an Act and you must own too that they had the same power to put them into the Confession and when the same thing is capable of being done different ways men are free to make choice of that which they esteem the most fitting and convenient Here M. de Condom interrupting Mr. Claude told him it was certain that Synod had thoughts of couching the Article of the Lord's Supper in ambiguous expressions and this was the design of the Mediators That there was mentioned a power to decide all points of Doctrine which had a manifest relation to the Real Presence as held by the Lutherans Mr. Claude replyed that to tax the Synod with a design of agreeing upon ambiguous expressions was a mere conjecture of M. de Condom for which he offered not the least proof and that he for his part guessed the quite contrary that he did not at all question but the Synod intended to do all that could be done for reducing the Lutherans to a full knowledge of the truth and this was the meaning of that power given them to decide all Doctrinal Points with them that is to do it by the Word of God Then resuming the method of his Discourse he made answer to what M. de Condom alledged that it was intolerable Pride for mere single private Persons to fancy themselves wiser and better able to understand Scripture than a whole Ecclesiastical Assembly together He told him then that single and private Persons ought by no means to think so highly of themselves as to fancy they were wiser and better able to understand Scripture than a whole Assembly together That on the contrary they should presume favourably of an Assembly and retain a disposition to be taught by it But still this was no Argument that they should not continually have their Eyes open to discern whether an Assembly had really discharged their duty imitating herein those â—eraeans of whom it is said that they compared what St. Paul Preached with the Scriptures searching whether those things were so That we must distinguish between a Judgment of humility and charity which concludes 〈◊〉 probably and a perswasion of Infallibility which concludes necessarily and certainly Thâ—â— according to the Judgment of Charity and Humility we must think the best of an Assembly nay
the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes That the whole Jewish Church had in their Assemblies declared Jesus Christ a Deceiver That nevertheless this was not only a Church but the one sole Church in the World at that time invested with the Authority of God who had founded nourisht and brought it up till that time That God had taught it by his Prophets and depesited his Holy Oracles there That this Church laid a just claim to a succession of Two thousand years continuance and valued her self upon it That she held formal solemn Assemblies and such as Jesus Christ himself acknowledged They sit says he in Meses seat All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe that observe and do And yet this very Church determin'd the greatest and most heinous Error that ever could be in the World even that Jesus Christ was to be rejected as a wicked man and a Deceiver That we cannot avoid affirming that at that time siâ—gle and private persons might understand the Scripture better than the whole Body of the Church met together and that in allowing M. de Condom's Principle to be true viz. That men ought to yield an absolute obedience to the decisions of Ecclesiastical Assemblies without taking upon them a right to examine what is so decided we do condemn Jesus Christ and as many as then believed in him For according to this principle Jesus Christ ought not any more to have taught the people publickly after the Church had past such decisions against him nor ought the people to have given him their attention any more because they were not suffered to examine those decisions And yet proceeded he Jesus Christ did not forbear Preaching to the people and converting many of them nor did they withdraw their attention not withstanding all the decisions given against him This principle then of a blind and implicit obedience is consequently false and contrary to the conduct of Jesus Christ and his Disciples To preclude this Argument by urging that Jesus Christ wrought such miracles as did evidence his Authority to be Divine is here of no significancy at all For there are two sorts of Miracles the one true the other false the one that men may believe a lye the other to convince them of the truth This distinction was made by God himself in the 13th Chapter of Deuteronomy where he tells the Israelites That if a Prophet give them a sign or a wonder and would perswade them to go after other Gods They must not hearken unto him for the Lord their God proveth them Jesus Christ also hath himself owned the truth of this distinction Now said he if M. de Condom's principle had taken place the people had nothing to do to make this distinction after once the Church had determined that Jesus Christ wrought his Miracles by the help of Beelzebub and not by the Power of God They must not any more according to M. de Condom so much as open their eyes to see these Miracles or suffer the least impression to be made upon themselves by them And by consequence this principle is false and destructive of the Christian Religion Hereupon M. de Condom interrupted Mr. Claude telling him that this Instance of the Jewish Church ought not to have been produced in the present case For said he the Synagogue was to fall thus the Prophets had foretold and therefore the people ought not then to pay such an obedience to their Guides as is now owing to the Church of Christ which must never fail To which Mr. Claude return'd That seeing the Synagogue was to fall it might consequently so fall out that single and private persons should understand the meaning of Scripture better than the whole body of a Church met together in its solemn Assemblies which was the very point in debate and from hence it follows clearly that it was neither pride nor presumption for private people either to believe it possible for them at some time to understand Scripture better than the whole Body of an Assembly nor upon this principle to take their decisions into examination And that this was all he desired Besides said he This Reason could have no manner of influence upon the Jews because the Synagogue were not only not agreed upon it but quite contrary asserting that it should never fail they produced in their own behalf several promises which at first blush seemed to have a great deal of strength 'T is but lost labour to urge in defence of this the Prophets who foretold its fall for the meaning of those Prophesies was the thing then in question and the Synagogue having explained these in a sense that made for them according to M. de Condom's principle it was the people's duty to stick close to that explanation without examining it at all In a word said he this fall of the Synagogue does not make their Assemblies differ at all from those of the Christian Church with relation to the matter now in dispute between us For what Promises soever the Church of Jesus Christ may have that she shall subsist for ever there is not any thing in Scripture gives us assurance that the Assemblies of Councils shall never fail Here M. de Condom took up the Discourse and said That Mr. Claude's Argument concerning the time of the Synagogues fall was the most impertinent thing in the World For at that time it could not be said that there was any visible Authority upon Earth to which men were necessarily obliged to submit because Jesus Christ himself was there that is the very Truth appearing visibly among men to whom God had given testimony from Heaven and who wrought Miracles Do but you proceeded he bring again Jesus Christ Teaching Preaching doing Miracles among us and we shall have no further occasion for the Churches Authority My Argument said Mr. Claude was not only the most pertinent to our present purpose but the clearest and most concluding Argument in the World and I hope you your self will grant it to be so after I have entreated you to consider that the visible Authority of the Son of God was the very point in dispute between the Synagogue and Jesus Christ and that this very point the Synagogue had determined in the negative That the main business was to know whether Jesus Christ were a Deceiver or not whether his Miracles proceeded from God or Beelzebub That Jesus Christ's visible Authority could not decide that question in the peoples minds for no Authority can decide a doubt till it be first received and Jesus Christ's Authority was not as yet received for the main controversy then depending was whether it should be received or rejected So that there remained only the Authority of the Church and this had determined against him According then to M. de Condom's Principles private persons ought consequently to have stuck to that and rejected Jesus Christ M. de Condom called this Argument of Mr. Claude's a Jewish
Tom. 10. Edit Antverp †Baronius ad Ann. 540. Se à Pontificatu abdicâsse Vigilium ex spatio vacationis sedis Silverii dicendum omnino est nam quomodo potuit secundum Anastasium sedes vacâsse sex dies si Vigilius ipso vivente Silverio intrusus semel sedere post ejus obitum perseverà sset Annal. Tom. 7. Pag. 301. Edit Antverp a Baronius ad Ann. 1076. Privilegia Apostolicae sedis Romani Pontificis Quòd Papae â—â—eat Imperatores deponere Quòd sententia illius à nullo debeat retractari ipse omnium solus retractare possit Quòd à fidelitate iniquorum Subjectos potest absolvere Annal. Tom. 11. Pag. 485. Edit Romae 1605. b Relaxatos autem se noverint à debito fidelitatis hominii ac totius obsequii dum in tantâ iniquitate permanserint quicunque illis aliquo peccato pacto tenentur annexi Conc. Lateran 3. Cap. 27. Anno 1179. Collect. Labbe Lut. Paris 1671. Tom. 10. Pag. 1523. c Si vero Dominus temporalis requisitus monitus Ecclesiâ terram suam purgare neglexerit ab haereticâ foeditate per Metropolitanum caeteròs comprovinciales Episcopos Excommunicationis vinculo innodetur Et si satisfacere contempserit infra annum significetur hoc summo Pontifici ut extunc ipse Vassallos ab ejus fidelitate denunciet absolutos terram exponat Catholicis occupandam qui eam exterminatis haereticis sine ullâ contradictione possideant Conc. Lateran 4. Ann. 1215. Cap. 3. de Haereticis Collect. Labb Tom. 11. Part. 1. Pag. 148. d See Innocent the fourth's sentence against the Emperor Frederick past in the Council of Lyons It is at large in Labbe ' sCollection of Councils Tom. 11. part 1. Pag. 640. in the Close are these words Nos super praemissis memoratum Principem omni honore dignitate privatum à Domino ostendimus denunciamus nihilo minus sententiando privamus Omnes qui ei Juramento fidelitatis tenentur adstricti a Juramento hujusmodi perpetuo absolventes autoritate Apostolicâ â—irmiter inhibendo ne quisquam de caetero sibi tanquam Imperatori vel Regi pareat vel intendat Et decernendo quoslibet qui deinceps ei velut Imperatori aut Regi consilium vel auxilium praestiterint seu favorem ipso facto excommunicationis vinculo subjacere e Universas potestates dominos temporales Judices antedictos exhortando requirimus mandamus eisdem ut pro defensione fidei inquisitoribus Haereticae pravitatis pareant intendant praebeantque auxilium favorem Labb Collect. Concil Constant Bulla Inter cunctas pastoralis Curae c. Tom. 12. Pag. 259. ‖ Cum solum Romanum Pontificem pro tempore existentem tanquam authoritatem super omnia concilia habentem tam Conciliorum indicendorum plenum jus potestatem nedum ex sacrae Scripturae testimonio dictis sanctorum Patrum habere manifestè constet Conc. Lateran 5. Sess 11. Bulla Pastor aeternus Labb Collect. Tom. 14. Pag. 309. * Puto tamen quod si Papa moveretur melioribus rationibus authoritatibus quam Concilium quod standum esset sententiae suae Nam Concilium potest errare sicut alias erravit super Matrimonium contrahendam inter raptorem raptam Dictum Hieronymi melius sentientis postea praelatum fuit statuto Concilii Nam in concernentibus fidem etiam dictum unius privati praeferendum esset dicto Papae si ille moveretur melioribus rationibus novi veteris Testamenti quam Papa Nec obstat si dicatur quod Concilium non potest errare quia Christus oravit pro Ecclesiâ suâ ut non deficeret quare dico quod â—icet Concilium generale repraesentet totam Ecclesiam Universalem tamen in veritate ibi non est verè Universalis Ecclesia sed repraesentativè quia Universalis Ecclesia constituitur ex collatione omnium fidelium unde omnes fideles orbis constituunt istam Ecclesiam Universalem cujus caput sponsus est ipse Christus Papa autem est Vicarius Christi non vere caput Ecclesiae Et ista est illa Ecclesia quae errare non potest Unde possibile est quod vera fides Christi remanserit in uno solo ita quod verum est dicere quod fides non deficit in Ecclesiâ sicut jus Universitatis potest residere in uno solo aliis peccantibus Panormitan super S. Decret Tit. de Election Can. Significâsti Fol. 86. †Occam Dialog Lib. 5. Quaeritur utrum Papa canonice electus haereticari possit cap. 1 2 3 4 5. Utrum Collegium Cardinalium possit haereticâ pravitate maculari Cap. 6. c. Utrum Papa cum Collegio Cardinalium simul possit hereticâ pravitate maculari Cap. 10. Utrum Ecclesia Romana seâ— sedes Apostolica valeat inâ—ici haereticâ pravitate Cap. 11. Utrum Concilium Generale Ecclesiae in haereticam pravitatem labi possit Cap. 25. Utrum tota multitudo fidelium haereticari possit Cap. 29. †Restiterunt alii affirmantes errare posse Concilia jam errâsse ut Ariminense illud tam celebriter damnatum Ephesinum quoque secundum item Constantinopolitanum de ponendis imaginibus sed Aquisgranense cujus sententiae de Matrimonio raptae Hieronymi determinatio praeponitur Propterea si haec aberraverunt alia quoque errare posse dicunt Quâ de re fatentur nonnulli Concilia ea sive Universales Synodos in quibus Authoritas Pontificis summi non praesidet errare posse non autem ea quibus intervenit Instant illi ex adverso Ephesinum secundum legitimè fuisse congregatum praesidentibus etiam Legatis Pontificis nihilominus in eversionâ—m fidei agitatum in ejus correctionem à Leone Pontifice Chalcedonensem Synodum institutam Rursus quia dari remedia videntur dum Concilia discrepant cui videlicet standum adhaerendumque magis innuitur aiunt apertè etiam significatur aberrare Universalia Concilia posse J. Fran. Picus Mirand de Fide Ord. Credendi Theorem 4. Tom. 2. Pag. 259. Edit Basil * He says Dialogue 2d pag. 20. That the Church of England in the 6th Article of their 39. says We have no other Rule of Faith but Scripture as each person of sound Judgment in the Church understands it and what is proved by it This he repeats Dialog 3. Pag. 30. and several times afterwards whereas the words of the Article are these Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation so that whatsoever is not read therein nor may be proved thereby * is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an Article of Faith or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation Where you see the Star there was in the Form in Edward the 6th's Reign this Clause inserted although it be sometimes received of the Faithful as godly and profitable for an Order and Comliness But where are the expressions or indeed the sense
abilities besides that we must bring along with us not only charitable but reverent and respectful thoughts of such Assemblies and judg favourably of them till we have manifest conviction of the contrary Besides all this I say the ignorant sort of people must not be too rash in offering to interpose their judgments about matters which either are not plainly exprest in Scripture or naturally and necessarily deduced from thence They must satisfie themselves with using these two ways The Scriptures being silent And the clear and plain instructions to be met with there From its being silent they must learn to reject what it does not teach for strange and novel Doctrines For whatever is not in Scripture is not of Divine Revelation and nothing that is not revealed by God can be the object of Faith By the clear and plain Instructions to be met with there they must learn to embrace the Doctrines necessary for Salvation and to reject all things contrary to the same as dangerous and destructive Errors And this is sufficient for the more ignorant sort of people As for other particulars for which no certain rule can be given neither from the Scriptures being silent nor from the plain and clear instructions contained in it nor by natural inferences deduced from thence before they either receive them or condemn them they must endeavour to get information by such means as God hath discovered and established in his Church and in the mean time entertain a good opinion of the Assemblies determinations Thus they will preserve their Faith incorrupt and sufficient for Salvation they will pay to Assemblies their due respects and keep themselves in the peace and unity of the Church If the Gentlemen of the Romish Communion are not content with this but still would have us believe whatever such Assemblies may determine blindfold we must beg of them to consider That to exclude thus all manner of amendment is to open a mighty inlet to Error and Superstition 't is an exposing believers to a manifest danger of having their Faith corrupted and themselves damned in a word 't is perfectly to ruine Christianity unless the goodness of God interpose with some remedy Will not these Gentlemen who are so ready at exclaiming against the inconveniencies that may possibly proceed from our principle at last open their eyes and take a view of what their own hath actually produced already Transubstantiation Purgatory Indulgences Merit of Good-works worshipping of Images and Relicks Service in an unknown Tongue and a thousand other devotions which have no great appearance of wisdom in them These are the products of their pretended Infallibility and all this they are forced to defend now because they would not lose the point of an implicit obedience And now if I were speaking any thing here concerning the occasion of this dispute between the Bishop of Meaux and me or the Circumstances that went before or followed after our Conference the world will easily perceive I do it because this Bishop hath already been at the trouble of giving the publick a sufficient account of them One word only I must say which respects one of our Auditors Mr. Cotton who no doubt would have received a better Character from M. de Meaux had he been so happy as to be known to him more particularly Mr. Cotton is a Gentleman of great honour and wants neither apprehension nor judgment he understands his Religion and though dispute be no part of his business is well versed in the main Controversies between us If his modesty or some other considerations prevailed upon him to say something that lookt like declining to engage in dispute with M. de Meaux I do not think he ought to have taken his words in their strict and literal sense As for the difference between our two Relations I leave it as M. de Meaux hath done to the Reader 's judgment He hath observed very wisely that let him say what he would of me it was in my power to say the same of him That all our Auditors were interested on one side or other and that the world hath nothing at all to do with our proceedings To all which let me add that I will not give any occasion for any private quarrel with a person I honour to that degree that I do M. de Meaux The only thing I need say more is concerning the method I have observed in this Book It is divided into Two Parts The first contains an Answer to the Instruction given Mademoiselle de Duras by this Bishop the day before our Conference together with an Examination of his Reflexions upon that Answer beginning at the ninth and going on to the thirteenth inclusively The second part contains a Relation of what past in our Conference with an Examination of M. de Meaux's Reflexions thereupon which are his eight first This method in my opinion is very natural And now as I have made it my business to be very exact and past nothing in his whole Book over without giving a direct Answer to it so I hope that when he shall think fit to set Pen to Paper against me next he will be as exact and apply himself as close to the pinch of the Question and not imagine as men commonly do that provided they can but pick up here and there some loose passages and from thence start a few difficulties and objections there need no more be done and this must go for a full Answer I beseech God to shed forth his Blessing upon an undertaking wherein the only Ends I proposed to my self were his Glory and the Illustration of the Truth Thus much I am encouraged to hope from his mercy and that as he hath hitherto preserved his little Ship the Church in the midst of the billows and storms of the world he will still continue to preserve her as he hath promised even to the end of the world AN ADVERTISEMENT FROM THE TRANSLATOR TO THE READER WHEN persons of M. de Meaux's and Mr. Claude's Character engage and in a Controversy so important too as that between the Church of Rome and those who have separated from her Men must naturally be desirous to know the management and issue of such a debate For besides what expectations the reputation of their Learning and Judgment might raise This is a Cause that scarce any body in our part of the World can be supposed perfectly indifferent in Every Reader must look on These not only as Disputants but Advocates and even they who design no more than the gratifying their curiosity by perusing such Conferences do yet insensibly find themselves affected with some degree of Concern The particular Argument insisted upon here is likewise of the highest consequence for it cannot but be a mighty help and direction to know exactly how far we are obliged to comply with the Churches Decisions in matters of Faith In what Cases we may venture to depend upon our own Collections from Reason and