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scripture_n church_n council_n trent_n 2,747 5 10.4894 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18620 The state of the now-Romane Church Discussed by way of vindication of the Right Reuerend Father in God, the Lord Bishop of Exceter, from the weake cauills of Henry Burton. By H.C. Cholmley, Hugh, ca. 1574-1641. 1629 (1629) STC 5144; ESTC S107813 40,972 128

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than_o himself_o about_o the_o truth_n and_o true_a visibilitie_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n use_v all_o kind_n of_o sophistry_n and_o deceit_n as_o may_v appear_v both_o by_o the_o whole_a discourse_n and_o by_o every_o part_n and_o parcel_n thereof_o in_o the_o whole_a you_o shall_v perceive_v two_o point_n of_o notable_a sophistry_n common_a to_o he_o with_o all_o those_o that_o maintain_v bad_a cause_n one_o be_v beggary_n common_o call_v of_o the_o logician_n petitio_fw-la principij_fw-la which_o prove_v one_o obscure_a or_o uncertain_a thing_n by_o another_o or_o will_v have_v that_o to_o be_v grant_v which_o reason_n deny_v another_o be_v disorder_n which_o be_v horace_n humano_fw-la capiti_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o ovid_n rudis_fw-la indigestaque_fw-la mole_n a_o confuse_a heap_n of_o independency_n like_o a_o lotterers_n pitcher_n full_a of_o scroll_n shuffle_v together_o without_o any_o reference_n one_o to_o another_o his_o beggary_n will_v soon_o appear_v if_o we_o 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nothing_o else_o but_o andabatarum_fw-la pugna_fw-la the_o fight_n at_o blind_a man_n buff_n as_o we_o say_v so_o as_o a_o man_n may_v miss_v ten_o time_n before_o he_o hit_v once_o but_o of_o the_o two_o the_o former_a be_v the_o worse_o wherein_o this_o our_o adversary_n offend_v if_o he_o say_v he_o take_v it_o as_o he_o find_v it_o it_o will_v not_o excuse_v for_o i_o dare_v say_v his_o pretend_a adversary_n intend_v not_o a_o combat_n if_o they_o have_v they_o will_v have_v deprive_v he_o of_o the_o occasion_n of_o much_o babble_n and_o yet_o have_v he_o not_o list_v to_o be_v contentious_a he_o may_v have_v pick_v such_o a_o state_n of_o the_o question_n out_o of_o the_o defender_n write_n as_o may_v have_v d●●led_v the_o edge_n of_o his_o quarrelsome_a humour_n for_o the_o state_n be_v set_v aright_o and_o with_o perspicuity_n it_o will_v easy_o appear_v to_o which_o side_n the_o truth_n incline_v wherefore_o that_o i_o offend_v not_o in_o that_o wherein_o i_o find_v he_o to_o 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where_o as_o he_o allow_v it_o to_o have_v be_v so_o till_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o appear_v in_o all_o this_o discourse_n now_o for_o bellarmine_n i_o be_o sorry_a such_o a_o superficial_a reader_n shall_v meddle_v with_o he_o to_o the_o shame_n of_o our_o whole_a nation_n mark_v how_o he_o reason_v bellarmine_n disclaim_v these_o three_o as_o proper_a mark_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v they_o not_o i_o pray_v what_o consequence_n be_v here_o first_o may_v not_o a_o man_n disclaim_v that_o which_o he_o have_v for_o some_o si●ister_n respect_v best_a know_v to_o himself_o as_o pride_n and_o presumption_n in_o meddle_v in_o cause_n and_o with_o person_n too_o high_a for_o he_o and_o the_o like_a second_o do_v bellarmine_n disclaim_v they_o simple_o and_o not_o only_o in_o comparison_n of_o mere_a proper_a mark_n three_o may_v not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v they_o as_o mark_n common_a to_o all_o church_n true_a and_o false_a 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〈…〉_z this_o be_v his_o three_o argument_n the_o four_o you_o shall_v find_v pag._n 35._o to_o this_o purpose_n if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v demonstrate_v itself_o to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n than_o it_o be_v no_o true_a church_n but_o it_o can_v ergo_fw-la 〈…〉_z to_o this_o many_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v answer_v because_o both_o proposition_n be_v to_o be_v deny_v the_o former_a because_o it_o be_v inconsequent_a first_o because_o want_v of_o demonstration_n take_v not_o away_o the_o truth_n and_o true_a be_v of_o any_o thing_n if_o it_o do_v there_o be_v infinite_a thing_n in_o the_o world_n which_o shall_v have_v no_o be_v or_o not_o be_v that_o which_o they_o be_v even_o the_o scripture_n itself_o shall_v not_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n because_o it_o can_v be_v demonstrate_v so_o to_o be_v to_o a_o natural_a man_n second_o because_o want_v of_o ability_n to_o make_v demonstration_n especial_o of_o the_o party_n own_o be_v be_v much_o less_o able_a to_o do_v it_o 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because_o bellarmine_n be_v constrain_v to_o confess_v that_o all_o his_o 15._o mark_n can_v make_v it_o evident_o true_a but_o only_o evident_o credible_a that_o it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n i_o answer_v first_o this_o be_v not_o true_a bellarmine_n say_v no_o such_o thing_n he_o have_v not_o the_o word_n only_o but_o thus_o he_o speak_v though_o they_o make_v it_o not_o evident_o true_a yet_o do_v they_o make_v it_o evident_o credible_a yea_o he_o distinguish_v between_o heathen_n which_o admit_v not_o the_o scripture_n and_o christian_n which_o do_v and_o say_v that_o to_o they_o it_o make_v they_o evident_o credible_a but_o to_o these_o evident_o true_a as_o well_o as_o evident_o credible_a lib._n 4._o the_o not_o be_v eccles._n cap._n 3._o §_o dicimus_fw-la ergo_fw-la this_o therefore_o be_v not_o good_a deal_n second_o this_o be_v the_o same_o fallacy_n of_o argue_v à_fw-la dicto_fw-la secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la ad_fw-la dictum_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la wherein_o you_o offend_v afore_o he_o can_v do_v it_o by_o these_o his_o fifteen_o mark_n say_v you_o ergo_fw-la he_o can_v do_v it_o at_o all_o be_v this_o a_o good_a kind_n of_o reason_v indeed_o it_o argue_v his_o folly_n or_o rather_o madness_n in_o forsake_v those_o mark_n which_o can_v demonstrate_v it_o and_o clean_v to_o those_o which_o can_v do_v it_o but_o it_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o he_o can_v do_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_n in_o the_o second_o place_n therefore_o you_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v it_o by_o rome_n own_o doctrine_n and_o confession_n about_o her_o baptism_n the_o only_a relic_n say_v you_o which_o some_o suppose_n be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v she_o a_o true_a church_n which_o be_v this_o that_o the_o efficacy_n of_o baptism_n depend_v upon_o the_o priest_n intention_n whereof_o because_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a therefore_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a whether_o he_o be_v right_o baptize_v and_o so_o can_v be_v certain_a that_o he_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n from_o which_o confession_n you_o reason_n thus_o that_o which_o no_o one_o papist_n can_v demonstrate_v all_o of_o they_o put_v together_o can_v demonstrate_v but_o no_o one_o of_o they_o can_v demonstrate_v himself_o to_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la not_o all_o together_o and_o what_o the_o that_o church_n who_o member_n either_o several_o or_o together_o can_v demonstrate_v themselves_o to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n can_v demonstrate_v herself_o to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n but_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n neither_o several_o nor_o together_o can_v do_v it_o ergo_fw-la she_o herself_o can_v do_v it_o that_o i_o may_v give_v a_o full_a and_o sufficient_a answer_n to_o this_o large_a argument_n which_o be_v take_v from_o rome_n own_o doctrine_n and_o confession_n i_o must_v signify_v unto_o he_o that_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o that_o he_o know_v not_o what_o rome_n doctrine_n and_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n 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require_v yet_o be_v constrain_v to_o distinguish_v the_o perfectione_n sacramenti_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la &_o absolutè_fw-la &_o the_o perfectione_n eiusdem_fw-la coram_fw-la hominibus_fw-la and_o so_o agree_v that_o if_o we_o respect_v the_o perfection_n of_o the_o sacrament_n before_o man_n the_o outward_a prolation_n of_o the_o word_n be_v sufficient_a lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr sacr._n in_o genere_fw-la cap._n 28._o §_o ad_fw-la locum_fw-la obiectum_fw-la second_o he_o must_v know_v what_o certainty_n it_o be_v which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n mean_v when_o she_o confess_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o priest_n for_o she_o distinguish_v of_o certainty_n in_o this_o case_n one_o be_v certainty_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v infallible_a another_o humane_a and_o moral_a the_o former_a she_o confess_v can_v ordinary_o be_v have_v but_o the_o latter_a may_v which_o she_o account_v to_o be_v sufficient_a and_o this_o come_v
useful_a to_o join_v we_o together_o again_o in_o one_o communion_n the_o former_a whereof_o be_v false_a as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o former_a answer_n the_o latter_a depend_v upon_o the_o scandal_n of_o the_o author_n for_o the_o better_a understanding_n whereof_o we_o be_v to_o know_v that_o the_o reform_a church_n never_o make_v a_o full_a and_o total_a separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o only_o partial_a from_o her_o corruption_n non_fw-la tam_fw-la ab_fw-la ea_fw-la quam_fw-la ab_fw-la eius_fw-la erroribus_fw-la discessimus_fw-la say_v jewel_n in_o his_o apology_n which_o be_v the_o common_a voice_n of_o all_o even_o of_o perkins_n himself_o in_o his_o reform_a catholic_a who_o show_v in_o every_o head_n of_o doctrine_n how_o far_o we_o may_v and_o must_v hold_v communion_n with_o that_o church_n and_o to_o this_o and_o no_o more_o have_v the_o reverend_a author_n respect_n in_o this_o assertion_n now_o this_o calumniator_n will_v make_v the_o world_n believe_v that_o his_o intent_n be_v to_o use_v a_o mean_n by_o help_n of_o this_o distinction_n to_o join_v we_o together_o again_o in_o one_o communion_n in_o those_o thing_n wherein_o we_o be_v already_o separate_v which_o as_o it_o be_v far_o from_o his_o heart_n and_o meaning_n for_o his_o whole_a treatise_n tend_v to_o the_o contrary_a so_o indeed_o it_o be_v a_o vain_a thing_n for_o he_o to_o endeavour_n it_o by_o this_o distinction_n for_o it_o will_v be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o he_o shall_v say_v as_o she_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n we_o may_v communicate_v with_o she_o in_o her_o corruption_n but_o as_o she_o be_v babylon_n we_o may_v not_o which_o be_v indeed_o the_o folly_n which_o he_o illustrate_v by_o his_o two_o similitude_n of_o society_n with_o a_o strumpet_n and_o the_o devil_n thus_o you_o see_v the_o honesty_n and_o wisdom_n of_o the_o man_n and_o by_o this_o you_o may_v judge_v of_o his_o zeal_n for_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n author_n they_o have_v not_o well_o heed_v the_o charitable_a profession_n of_o zealous_a luther_n nos_fw-la fatemur_fw-la etc._n etc._n we_o profess_v say_v he_o that_o under_o the_o papacy_n there_o be_v much_o christian_a good_a yea_o all_o etc._n etc._n i_o say_v moreover_o that_o under_o the_o papacy_n be_v true_a christianity_n ●●a_o the_o very_a kernel_n of_o christianity_n etc._n etc._n burton_n luther_n speech_n than_o be_v true_a but_o ever_o distingue_n tempora_fw-la luther_n write_v that_o before_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n till_o which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v not_o alter_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n but_o now_o we_o that_o live_v after_o that_o council_n can_v say_v so_o for_o in_o that_o council_n the_o nut_n be_v crack_v the_o kernel_n reject_v yea_o anathematise_v and_o now_o they_o have_v retain_v no_o more_o but_o the_o break_a shell_n of_o a_o church_n answer_n it_o be_v a_o strange_a thing_n to_o see_v how_o man_n be_v enamour_v of_o their_o own_o conceit_n qui_fw-fr amant_fw-fr ipsi_fw-la sibi_fw-la somnia_fw-la singunt_fw-la say_v the_o poet_n i_o warrant_v you_o if_o m._n burton_n be_v bray_v in_o a_o mortar_n yet_o will_v not_o these_o toy_n depart_v from_o he_o huartus_fw-la in_o his_o trial_n of_o wit_n report_v of_o a_o nobleman_n page_n in_o spain_n that_o be_v distract_v of_o his_o wit_n imagine_v himself_o to_o be_v a_o king_n in_o which_o conceit_n he_o so_o please_v himself_o that_o when_o he_o be_v cure_v he_o be_v displease_v with_o the_o physician_n that_o restore_v he_o to_o his_o right_a mind_n and_o so_o i_o doubt_v m._n burton_n will_v be_v with_o those_o that_o show_v he_o the_o vanity_n of_o these_o his_o imagination_n well_o howsoever_o it_o be_v we_o must_v be_v content_a and_o suffer_v he_o to_o abound_v in_o his_o own_o sense_n till_o time_n the_o mother_n of_o truth_n reveal_v his_o gross_a mistake_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a while_n l●t_v it_o be_v sufficient_a answer_n to_o this_o long_a discourse_n that_o here_o be_v nothing_o but_o idle_a repetition_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o have_v be_v already_o answer_v and_o hitherto_o we_o have_v answer_v what_o he_o have_v object_v to_o what_o be_v say_v in_o the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a religion_n concern_v this_o argument_n author_n nothing_o can_v be_v so_o well_o say_v or_o do_v but_o may_v be_v ill_o take_v burton_n now_o god_n forbid_v but_o be_v it_o well_o say_v or_o do_v to_o affirm_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v yet_o a_o true_a or_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n now_o let_v the_o reverend_a author_n judge_v indifferent_o have_v well_o weigh_v the_o former_a reason_n whether_o we_o do_v ill_a or_o no_o in_o take_v his_o say_n ill_o or_o whether_o we_o have_v not_o reason_n to_o have_v expect_v a_o ingenuous_a palinodie_n or_o augustine-like_a retractation_n rather_o than_o such_o a_o apology_n which_o whether_o it_o be_v rather_o to_o be_v pity_v than_o any_o uncharitableness_n in_o the_o reader_n in_o take_v such_o a_o say_v ill_a let_v indicious_a charity_n itself_o judge_v nor_o need_v we_o stretch_v the_o saying_n to_o imply_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a believe_a church_n suffice_v it_o we_o except_v against_o any_o be_v yea_o or_o visibility_n of_o a_o true_a church_n in_o the_o synagogue_n of_o rome_n answer_n some_o man_n be_v like_o nettle_n which_o if_o a_o man_n handle_v soft_o they_o sting_v he_o but_o if_o hardly_o and_o rough_o they_o be_v not_o feel_v our_o reverend_a antistes_fw-la have_v but_o glance_v at_o the_o zeal_n of_o some_o transport_v to_o such_o a_o detestation_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o if_o it_o be_v all_o error_n no_o church_n be_v deep_o censure_v as_o if_o preferment_n have_v change_v his_o note_n and_o teach_v he_o to_o speak_v more_o plausible_a language_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n then_o either_o he_o do_v or_o aught_o hereupon_o he_o frame_v a_o apologetical_a mild_a and_o christian_a advertisement_n to_o rectify_v their_o judgement_n lest_o their_o prejudice_n may_v turn_v more_o to_o their_o sin_n then_o to_o his_o wrong_n what_o be_v the_o issue_n nothing_o but_o scorn_n for_o sooth_n they_o expect_v that_o the_o reverend_a author_n well_o weigh_v the_o former_a reason_n will_v have_v make_v a_o pitiful_a retractation_n and_o not_o such_o a_o augustine-like_a apology_n nay_o they_o will_v not_o acknowledge_v any_o the_o least_o mistake_v in_o the_o matter_n yea_o those_o word_n nothing_o can_v be_v so_o well_o say_v or_o do_v but_o may_v be_v ill_o take_v which_o be_v the_o ordinary_a preamble_n to_o reconciliation_n be_v take_v amiss_o and_o so_o prove_v themselves_o to_o be_v true_a through_o their_o frowardness_n what_o then_o be_v to_o be_v do_v haec_fw-la non_fw-la succedit_fw-la alia_fw-la ineunda_fw-la est_fw-la via_fw-la the_o reverend_a author_n must_v use_v they_o like_o hound_n which_o the_o more_o a_o man_n beat_v the_o better_a they_o love_v he_o or_o like_o the_o wild_a irish_a which_o be_v most_o serviceable_a when_o they_o be_v most_o slavish_o use_v and_o so_o they_o shall_v have_v their_o desire_n a_o palinodie_n or_o retractation_n which_o be_v that_o be_v repent_v he_o that_o he_o have_v deal_v so_o favourable_o with_o they_o for_o as_o for_o their_o reason_n if_o they_o be_v not_o as_o bold_a and_o blind_a as_o bayard_n himself_o they_o will_v be_v ashamed_a to_o commend_v they_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o judicious_a charity_n author_n who_o see_v not_o that_o visible_a refer_v too_o outward_a profession_n true_a to_o some_o essential_a principle_n of_o christianity_n neither_o of_o they_o to_o soundness_n of_o belief_n burton_n be_v outward_a profession_n a_o sufficient_a mark_n of_o visibilitie_n for_o a_o church_n this_o be_v none_o of_o those_o mark_n which_o the_o church_n of_o england_n take_v notice_n of_o a_o church_n by_o answer_n no_o be_v not_o they_o the_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n administration_n of_o sacrament_n and_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o what_o outward_a profession_n of_o christianity_n can_v any_o visible_a church_n make_v without_o these_o outward_a profession_n therefore_o comprehend_v they_o all_o and_o so_o be_v a_o sufficient_a mark_n of_o visibilitie_n for_o a_o church_n burton_n again_o the_o scripture_n call_v they_o the_o synagogue_n of_o satan_n which_o call_v themselves_o jew_n and_o be_v not_o answer_n true_a yet_o be_v they_o true_a jew_n in_o the_o flesh_n and_o outward_o rom._n 2._o ●8_o 29._o and_o so_o may_v a_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christian_n be_v also_o burton_n the_o samaritan_n sometime_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v of_o the_o jew_n religion_n and_o profess_v the_o worship_n of_o the_o lord_n be_v they_o therefore_o a_o visible_a church_n answer_n the_o reason_n be_v not_o like_a because_o they_o never_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o god_n grace_n but_o be_v alien_n from_o the_o common_a wealth_n of_o israel_n