Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	catholic_a	church_n	tradition_n	2,528	5	9.2068	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20361	A true report of all the doynges at the assembly co[n]cernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce. Written in Latine by Mayster Nicholas Gallasius, minister of the Frenche Churche in London, and then present, [and] one of the disputers in the same, translated into English, by I. D.... Seen and allowed accordyng to the order appoynted by the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions; True report of all the doynges at the assembly concernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce.	Des Gallars, Nicolas, ca. 1520-ca. 1580.	1561 (1561)	STC 6776; ESTC S110901	50,348	138

Church is it which is euery where knowen and of all mē To the authority of y● church he sayd al interpretation of Scriptures and making of traditions ought to bee referred Saying that the succession as well of that Church as of the pastours therof was perpetual but of the Lordes Supper he so entreated the touching nothing at al of the chaūge of the natures of the elements he came very nye to their opinion which ioyne the body bloud of Christ with the elementes And say that they be both vnder them and in them Which afterwardes we vnderstode was done for a polecy partly to procure their fauoure whom he had so kindly clawed and partly to make vs the more hatefull to them Neither yet did he plainly agree with them but shewed that in thys respect he did willingly ioyne with them that they myghte ioyntly warre against vs. The ende of his oration was to this effect That the kyng and his counsell leauing our opinion should folow the steppes of theyr for fathers and not leaue their accustomed vsage When he had ended we desired that presently whiles the memory therof was yet fresh we might satisfye his obiections and refute his argumētes For we feared least after thys the Cardinals answere we should scarcely haue leasure or liberty afterwardes to speake Bicause the day afore many bragged that we shuld loke for nothing els thā condemnation the thūderbolt of excomunication Neyther wer we ignorant therof The Queene taking the aduise of her coūcel cōmaunded vs to depart saying that we should answere it an other tyme that she would appoint vs a day whē we shuld be presēt again And surely meruaile had it ben if the byshops which wer of that coūcel would haue geuē any other councel The next day againe we desired that we might be presētly heard and the tyme no longer prolōged But we could obtayne nothing neither wer we heard before the eight day In the meane time false rumors were spred abrode that we wer ouercome put to silēce had nothyng to say Whereas we were ready to haue answered their oration presently And how false such tales be here by men may sufficiently gesse that the Bishops did what they could to breake of the cōference so that at the last by their importunity they obteined of the Queene that the matter shuld not be opēly heard afore the king but in a more secret place afore few Therfore it was deferred til the .xxiiii. day of that moneth at the whiche cōmaunded to returne to Poyssye we came before the Quene the king Queen of Nauarre the rest of the Lordes and counsallours there were present also ●… Cardinalles and many Byshops and diuynes of al sortes we the mynisters were admitted only to the number of xij Those being seuered which wer sēt frō other Churches which afore were ioyned with vs. For now the matter was heard both in narower place in lesse companye than before the Cardynals of lorayne shewed in few wordes that this assemblye was to this end that if we would obiecte any thing agaynst that which he had sayde eyght dayes before we might freely speake shuld be herd Then Beza in the name of vs al said That he would haue wished that immediatlye he might haue aunswered the Cardynalls oration whyles the same was fresh in memorye or at the least that he might haue had som copye therof that he might aūswere certaynly perfectly to euery poynt but forasmuch as he coulde not obtayne that he woulde aunswere so much as he coulde call to mynde Fyrste there fore as concerning the article of the Churche which the Cardinall fyrste handled he deuided it into thre partes First what it is Then what are the marks therof Thirdly what and how great is the authoritie therof It is wel knowē quoth he that this name Ecclesia which signifieth the church is deriued from the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifyeth to call frō on place to another Of calling we find .ii. sorts in the scriptures the one cōioyned with the working of the holy ghost wherof Paul to the Romains writeth whom he called them he iustified Rom. viii c. xxviii The other althoughe in outward shew It be al one with the first yet is altogether vnprofitable to saluation And that only through the fault of man beyng deaffe at the calling of God Of this calling spake the Lorde when he sayde That many wer called but fewe chosē Mat. xxii b. xiiii Hereof it happens that the name of the church which signifyeth the congregacion of those that are assembled by the word of god is taken .ii. wayes For generally it contayneth al those which outwardly professe to folowe the calling of god Neyther is it to be doubted but manye hypocrites and reprobate persons are within this nūber Neither we thanks be to god therefore haue at any tyme Either written or taught otherwise for asmuch as both the scripture and also common experience doth plainly proue the same but takyng this name of the churche proprely and streyghtlye as manye tymes we doe we then say that it comprehendeth onlye the electe and chosen of god And that al men may know that we be not the authours of this maner of speache or of this doctrine when it is written that the church is the body of Christ bones of his bones fleshe of his fleshe yea when the name of Christ it selfe is geuen vnto it Eph. ii g. xxx as Paule wrytyng to the Corinthians ioyning the members with the heade calleth her Christ i. Cor. xii b. xii xvii how could in the number be contayned the reprobate in as muche as they are the members of the deuill For it cannot bee that we shoulde be members bothe of Christ and of the deuil which Austine writyng agaynste Cresconius well noteth in his seconde booke and xxiiii Chapter He also writyng on the .lxiiii. psalme vsed this distinction of the churche saying y● that church whiche is signifyed by Ierusalē toke her begynnyng of Abel and Babilon of Eain And afterwardes in his fyrst booke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes the seconde Chapter wheras he taketh the name of the church more largely he saieth that he that begot Abell Enoch Noe Abraham the reste of the Prophetes begot also Cayn Ismaell Dathan and suche lyke Therefore to conclude we muste take that whiche Austine hymselfe wrote in the seuenth boke of the same booke the. 51. chapter whiche is also rehearsed .xxiiii. ix i. a. ca. All thyngs consydred it is said that there are two kynde of men in the churche Some of them sayeth he bee the members of Christe and of the house of God yea the house of GOD it self Other some bee in the house but not of the house For they bee as chaffe with the corne tyll suche tyme as they bee seuered Hereof ryseth a questyon whether the Churche bee inuisible Whiche I thynke good to affyrme and

neither if any manne should ryse from death would they beleue him Or howe did they which had the writings of the Apostles onely when neyther bookes nor commentaries were written of thesame But whereas my Lord Cardinall woulde haue that taken for an Apostolike tradition whiche hathe bene receiued of the church at al times in all places and of al men I see not howe these iii. pointes maie be proued For how great diuersitie shal we find in the bookes of auncient fathers yea and euen in the verye articles of oure faith If these wordes should be weyed at all tymes and of all men wher shall we beginn but at the Apostolike church Who shall be firste in order but onely the Apostles Whose liues and doings are partly faithfully written by Luke and partly gathered out of their owne writinges To be shorte we returne at the last to the first foundatiō of the scriptures sith all truthe came from god who cōmaunded the prophets and Apostles to bee interpreters messengers of oure saluation In the meane time we dooe not reiecte the councels of the fathers as farre as they be confirmed with the testimonies of the holye scripture For them as Austine sayeth the holy●… ghost hath so tempered that it which●… in some place is obscurely spoken in some other is expressed more plainlye and more at large And that rule chiefly amonges others he geueth whereb●… we may vnderstande the scriptures i●… that booke whiche he wrote of christia●… doctrine yet there remaineth som●… doubt in this question Some mē hau●… thought that the will of God in these thinges whiche pertaine to oure saluation is not fullye declared in those writinges whiche the Prophetes and Apostles haue lefte vnto vs. Whiche doubte if it should take any place what a gap wer ther opened to all mischefe And certes this was the breache by the which Sathan first pearced into the vine yard of the lord to destroy it God truely before the tune of Moyses with visiōs reuelatiōs directed his church in like maner yeapostles before thei put theyr doctrine in writīg taught yesame by worde of mouth But because the nūber of men encreasing their noughtynesse encreased also the lorde would y● this doctrine shoulde bee contayned in writinges and monumentes Whiche might be vnderstoode and perceiued of al men why so that he might confoūd the impudence and rashnesse of suche as wil set foorth cloke their dreames with the name of tradition reuelation and custome But if the doctrine of god be written onely in some part to what purpose is this remedy Truely it can not be so Iohn spake of the scriptures when he sayeth that those things which are written are written to that ende that we beleuing them may haue life euerlasting Iohn xx ●… ●…xi whiche he had falslye sayde yf thei themselues had concealed any doctrine necessary to life and saluation But Paule when he declareth the vse of scripture vnder the person of Tymothe teacheth all ministers yf anye thing should haue ben added to the scriptures wuld not haue affirmed that by them the man of god is made perfecte i. Timo. ii d. xvi Neither do we denye but y● at all times there haue ben somtraditions of the apostles which be not written But those were suche as pertained to the ciuil order of the churche But forasmuche as many men haue abused this name this great while I thinke good to shewe what traditions ought to bee counted Apostolike Whiche shall not be hard yf in iudgyng and discernyng them we vse the markes For fyrst we must consyder whether they doe agree with the doctryne of the woorde and then whether they bee apte and meete to edify●… For it is certayne that the Apostles dyd neuer institute any rites and ordinaunces whiche eyther directly or els in anye parte were contrarye to theyr owne doctryne or myghte withdrawe menne from spirituall worshippyng whereof theyr owne wrytynges beare sufficiente recorde If thys rule be obserued bothe doctrine shall easilye be discerned frō traditions also false traditions frō the true Neyther are you ignorant how foolishe Tertullian iudgeth their opinions which think that the apostles haue ouerpassed an●…thīg necessary to saluatiō which ether by word of mouth or writīgs thei haue not taught but we will adde more hereto Namely that those things which herein the Apostles decreed were not continuall Truelye their instytutions passe all exception yet neuerthelesse by the rule of charitye they yelded somewhat to the weaknes of men As when the eating of suffocatorū and bloud was forbid the Iewes Also those thynges which Paule himselfe taught and obserued in Timothe and his own persō Ac. 15. f. 25. Act. 16. a. ● i Co. 16. d. xxix i Co. 11. a 7 Which now truly shuld haue no place but by the generall rule of charitye whereby we are willed in things indifferēt to apply our selues to our neighbours Other such like may be gathered of their rytes as of kissing vncouering the head which was the signe of authority and other such lyke whiche at this daye are contrarye to y● customes of many nations amōg whō it would seme most folish the men should kisse the one the other to talke with the heade vncouered is commonly a signe of y● lowest state and condicion These thinges therefore ought to be considered before anye custome be thought Apostolyke Also no man must grounde vppon the authority of the Apostles to trouble the church As it hapned in the cōtrouersye of the daye in the which Easter should be kept whiche bred miserable deuision and euē in the Apostles tyme by those that did abuse the authoritie of the churche at Ierusalē to myngle Iewishnesse wyth Christian religion Of whom it is writen in the Actes of the Apostles where it was decreed by a councell that no man should lay that yoke on mennes cōsciēces Wherby it may easely be perceiued that the Apostles could not be the authoures of so many ceremonies to the which afterwardes Satisfaction merites and remission of sinnes wer attributed For they taught far otherwise And so much they dissented from makyng newe ceremonies that they gaue no place to those of Moses lawe of the whiche God was the author Of thys yoke of traditions obseruances Austine long since writing to Ianuarius much cōplained if he had liued in our tyme how would he haue lamented thē Wherfore to be shorte we desyre that the Scripture whiche herein is playne maye iudge good traditions frō euil holy from prophane profitable frō hurtful necessarye frō superfluous When of these articles we are once agreed this question shall easily be dissolued whether the authoritie of the church be greater thā of the woorde of god which certes is no lesse fonde than if a man should doubte whether the sōn ought to be aboue his father the wife aboue her husbande or man aboue god And sure neuer the true church or any godly mā woulde moue such

the matter was not likely to passe as they wished Wherefore thoughe all oure demaundes were not graunted yet neuerthelesse bicause the aunswere of the Queene was tollerable we thoughte it good to take the occasion leaste we myghte seeme to detracte the conference The next day therefore whiche was the nynth of September we came to Poyssye to the cloyster of Nunnes where the king was with his brother the Duke of Orleaunce the Quene the king Queene of Nauarre and the rest of the nobles with the whole councel there were present also the Cardinalls and Bishops accompaynyed with a great number of ecclesiast call persons We ministers to the number of xii and .xx. of those whom other churches had sente came in afore them But least the people of the towne shoulde make any riot vpon vs the kinges garde brought vs from our lodginges to the Nunnery Assoone as we came to the kinges presence and wer commaunded to speake Theodore Beza which by the vniuersal cōsent was appoynted therto made an oratyon in the which thankyng God and the Kynge that nowe at the last our cause shuld he heard he shewed the causes for the which we had bin lōg before expelled and vniustly condēned Furthermore in what articles we agreed with our aduersaries in what others and how we did differ And what was the meane to appease all troubles and reforme religion Then in fewe wordes he shewed the doctrine of oure fayth and Sacramentes and bryefelye touched the chiefe errours that haue crept into religion whiche whyles he handeled grauely moderatly and wyth synguler eloquence he was heard very diligently of al men except when he treated of the presence of the body of Christ in his supper For when he shewed how we are made partakers of hym in hys Supper and taught thesame to be done by the power of the holy ghost which conioyneth knitteth thinges most farre distance in nature and that Christ could no otherwyse be receiued than by fayth and that he nedeth not to descende from heauen that we may communicate of hys body and that he is not enclosed in the bread but remayneth in heauen till he shall come to iudge the world or rather that as to that corporall presence he is as far absent from the bread as the hyest heauē is distant from the lowest earth these thinges I say Whiles he handeled sodenly the Bishops begā opēly to grudge and murmure Crying that he spake shameful blasphemy Some hissed some rose as though they would depart And the Cardinall of Turon opēly desired that either he might be licenced to depart or we put to silēce They wer sory that afore they could get no occasion to interrupte our oration And therfore it pricked them at the heartes that we were so attentiuely heard Neither is it to be doubted but ether they would haue departed or els violently haue runn vpon vs vnlesse the very presēce and authority of the king had represt their fury Silence commaunded a new Beza gently desired them that they woulde quietly heare what remained So it myghte happen that the matter ended they themselues mighte be satisfied So he had licence to conclude And not onely to declare the resydue of those thinges that pertayne to the fuller declaratyon of Chrystes presence in his supper but also all such thinges as concerne the Ecclesiasticall disciplyne and the dutye and authoritye of officers This oratyon ended the Cardinall of Turon perced with anger tremblyng and freating counsayled the king to geue no credite to our wordes nor swarue from the religion of his auncesters Wherein that he mighte obtaine his desire he prayed the gloryous virgine Marye and the blessed Saintes Then he desired to haue a copy of our oration and a daye appointed to aunswere it Saying that he hoped that oure argumentes and reasons shoulde bee so fully satisfied that if any parte thereof stucke in the kinges minde it shoulde thereby easely be rooted oute The Bishoppes tooke aduysemente with the deuines and Canonistes howe they mighte aunswere oure oration But then the Cardinall of Lorayne braste out into these wordes Would to God that eyther he had ben dumme or we deaffe The matter long weyed emōges them they concluded not to aunswere all the poyntes of our oration either bicause they would not or could not but .ii. only First that whiche we sayde of the Churche and then that which was spoken of the Lordes Supper Afterwards they desired that they might geue vp a common confessiō in wryting subscribed by euery of them Which if the ministers would not allow they myghte then procede with a solemne decree against them And so take away the disputation From the whych polecy the wysest and grauest men abhorring sharpely withstode their purpose In the meane tyme we determined to make supplication to the kyng that he woulde not suffer the conference thus to be broken of nor the Bishops to be iudges in their own cause Saying that we had not yet shewed the proofes of oure opynion but onely symplye and playnly hadde drawen the articles of oure fayth which afterwardes myght bee more largely handeled and proued with the testimonies of the Scripture if he did suffer the Bishops to proocede so at theyr owne wyll and decree their own cause it woulde come to passe that both he should be deceiued of hys good expectatiō and also no remedy hereafter founde for suche troubles as do dayly growe This supplication was geuen to the Chancelor who by his prudence prouided that the conference was not broken of and that the Bishops kept farre more moderate and quiet order than they had done before The eight day after which was the xvi of thesame moneth the Cardinal of Loraine answered our oratiō and protesting afore that he and his would alwayes submit themselues to the kinges rule and would be ready to obeye hys commaundement in al pointes yet neuerthelesse reserued place for theyr wonted immunitie and fredom wherby they are wont to quite themselues from all subiection and chalenge the chiefe authoritie And that he did so suttelly that he scarcely semed to touche that sore And pretending a coloure of concorde he protested that he would gladly receiue vs which had swarued from him if we would returne humble our selues to them To conclude that they would be as fathers towards vs. If we would shew our selues as children towardes them These such other like afore promised he sayd he would aunswere onely to the Articles of our oration Whereof the one concerned the Church the other the Lordes Supper He ymagined that we had so defyned y● Church as though the name thereof had extended no farther thā to the elect and therfore largely reasoned agaynste it shewing out of the common similitudes of the gospel in the whiche it is cōpared to a plat of grounde and to a fyshers net that the name therof extended euen to ill and reprobate persons But he gaue it a meruaylous definitiō Saying that the Catholike