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A19670 A setting open of the subtyle sophistrie of Thomas VVatson Doctor of Diuinitie which he vsed in hys two sermons made before Queene Mary, in the thirde and fift Fridayes in Lent anno. 1553. to prooue the reall presence of Christs body and bloud in the sacrament, and the Masse to be the sacrifice of the newe Testament, written by Robert Crowley clearke. Seene and allowed according to the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions. Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588.; Watson, Thomas, 1513-1584. Twoo notable sermons. 1569 (1569) STC 6093; ESTC S109120 329,143 416

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you selfe M. Watson Coloss 1. He is not ashamed to saye thus grounding his wordes vpon Saint Paule to the Colossians Vbi est secundum Apostolum ministerium quod absconditum fuit a saeculis c. Where is according to the saying of the Apostle the ministerie that hath bene hid since the beginning of generations and is nowe opened to his saintes vnto whome God would make knowne the ryches of the glorie of this sacrament among the Gentiles which sacrament is Christ the hope of glorie Where saint Paule hath sayde Mysterium the misterie or hid secret Cluniacensis sayth Ministerium the ministerie And where Paule sayth Qui est Christus Cluniacensis sayth Quod est Christus which sacrament is Christ For immediatly before he had sayde Sacramentum in place of Mysterium The sacrament in place of the mistery And all this is to make men beléeue that saint Paule wryting to the Colossians had taught them that the sacrament of Christes body is Christ himselfe Much such matter is manifest in your Cluniacensis I estéeme his aucthoritie therefore euen as I estéeme youres And so I doe estéeme those notable wryters which at this daye doe terme our Religion by the name of Mahumets sect For whatsoeuer they or you say or wryte we are well able to proue that we hold the true and catholike fayth which was taught by the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ being the foundation thereof With the Prophets we beleue the promise of God concerning the sending of his sonne in the similitude of sinfull fleshe that in the fleshe he might satisfie for the sinnes of all his elected and chosen children And with the Apostles we beleue that he is come and hath by one sacrifice once offered satisfied for al their sinnes that be of that number And that there remayneth no more sacrifice for sinne Hebr. 10. And that the Church of Christ is bound continually to offer vnto God a sacrifice of thanks for this so great and frée redemption by the sacrifice of his owne onely begotten sonne And that this sacrifice of thankes is our obedience in walking in those good workes that God hath prepared for vs to walke in This is not to prepare a way for the Turkes to ouerunne all as you say it is But this is to be at defiaunce both with Turke and Pope But for the auoyding of these absurdities WATSON Diuision 11. and for suche causes as I shal God wylling declare hereafter I presuppose this foundation of christes body to be really present in the blessed sacrament to be stedfastly beleeued of vs all vpon the which I builde all that remayneth now to be sayde Which foundation although it hath beene vndermined of many men and many wayes therfore requireth a full and perfite treatise to be made of it alone yet as I intende not to occupie all this time in that so I maye not well so slenderly leaue it that hath bene so much and often assaulted but shall declare the summe of that moueth me to continue still in that truth I was borne in to keepe still that fayth I was baptised in and put on Christ which fayth seing it is vniuersall if I should leaue it I should forsake Christ and be an heretike not folowing that forme of doctrine I receyued of my fathers and they of theirs from the beginning but chosing my selfe a newe waye and newe maysters that please me being so condemned by mine owne conscience and iudgement which is the very propertie and definition of an heretike CROWLEY The obsurdities ye speake of we haue something touched alreadie The other causes that moue you we minde by Gods help to saye somewhat to when you shall declare them But in the meane while let vs sée the summe of that which moueth you to continue still in that fayth you were baptised in c. WATSON Diuision 12. There be three things that holde mee in this faith the manifest and plaine scripture the vniforme aucthorities of holy men and the consent of the vniuersall Church These three be the argumentes that a christen man may stick vnto and neuer be deceaued specially if they be knit and ioyned togither concerning one matter but if they be seperate then some of them be but weake staffes to leane vnto As for example the scripture without the consent of the church is a weapon as meete for an heretike as for a catholike for Arius Nestorius and such other Heretikes did alledge the scripture for their opinions as the catholikes did but their alledging was but the abusing of the letter which is indifferent to good and euill and deprauing of the true sense which is onely knowne by the tradition and consent of the catholike church so that the one without the other is not a direction but a seduction to a simple man bicause the very scripture in deede is not the bare letter as it lyeth to be taken of euery man but the true sense as it is delyuered by the vniuersall consent of christes church Lykewise the writings and sayings of the fathers if they be but the minde of one man without the consent of other were he neuer so well learned and vertuous otherwise yet his wrytings I say in that point be not a confirmation for an ignoraunt man to holde him in the truth but a temptation to seduce him and pull him from the truth The consent of the Church is alwayes a sure staffe the verie piller of truth whether it bee in things expressed in the letter of the scripture or in things deliuered vnto vs by tradition of the Apostles He that holdeth him by this staffe can not fall in faith but stande in truth The thrée staues that you saye you leane vnto CROWLEY are very good stayes such as a man may be bold to trust vnto especially as you haue wel said when they be knit and ioyned togither concerning one matter But if they be seuered then some of them be but weake staues to leane vnto Hitherto you haue said very wel But when amōgst these thrée staues you make the consent of the Church onely to be the sure staffe and the scriptures and sayings of learned and godly fathers without the consent of the Church to be but a seduction or tentation to seduce the simple and ignoraunt man me thinketh you shewe your selfe to beastly blinde Where was this sure staffe of yours when all the Apostles were so farre from the hope of the resurrection of their maister that they could not beleue the report of them that had séene him after he was risen againe Marc. 16. Had this consent of theirs in vnbeliefe bene a sure staye for men to leane vnto And was the prophecie of Dauid at that time a seduction or tentation Psalm 16. Act. 2. to seduce a simple ignoraunt man bicause it was not ioyned with the consent of the Church Did Christ go about to seduce the Iewes when hée bad them search
the scriptures Iohn 5. When all the Apostles had consented that none should go in vnto the heathen to preache the Gospell vnto them Act. 11. and Christ had sayde go and teache all Nations where was then the sure staffe to leane to What staffe was it that the worshipfull of Berrhaea leaned vnto when they had heard Paule preach there Act. 17. Was it the consent of the Church No saint Luke sayth Scrutabantur scripturas They searched the scriptures That was then the sure staffe to leane to Saint Austen woulde haue no credite further then hys wordes might be confirmed De Trinitat libr. 3. by Scripture and sounde reason His wordes are these Noli meis literis quasi scripturis canonicis inseruire sed in illis quod non credebas eum inueneris incunctanter crede in istis autem quod certum non habebas nisi certum intellexeris noli firmiter credere Be thou not bound to my wrytings as to the canonicall scriptures but in the scriptures beléeue without feare whatsoeuer thou shalt finde therein which thou didst not beleue before But in my wrytings doe not firmely beléeue that which thou wast not sure of before vnlesse thou mayst certainly vnderstand it Doe not correct my wrytings by thine owne opinion or contention but by that thou readest in holye Scripture or vnshaken reason c. Contr. Petiliani Epist Cap. 12. Agayne the same Austen sayth Nemo mihi dicat O quid dixit Donatus Aut quid dixit Parmenianus aut Pontius aut quilibet illorum Quia ne Catholicis Episcopis consentiendum est sicubi sorte falluntur vt contra canonicas scripturas aliquid sentiant Let no man say vnto me Oh what hath Donatus saide Or what hath Parmenian sayde Or Pontius Or any of those men For we maye not consent to the Catholike Byshops if they be at any time deceyued so that they holde anye thing contrarie to the canonicall Scriptures Here it is manifest that saint Austen supposed the scriptures to be the sure staffe that we should stay vpon And the consent of the Byshops or other learned men to be but a weake stay and such as no man maye trust to when it is seuered from the other contrarie to the opinion that you holde M. Watson And yet more playnely the same saint Augustine sayth in an other place Cedamus igitur consentiamus autoritati scripturae sanctae Libr. De Peccat merit Remissi Cap. 22. quae nescit falli nec fallere Let vs therfore consent to the aucthority of the holy scripture which can neither be deceiued nor deceiue Gerson also sayth thus Dicto autoris autoritate canonica munito plus quam declarationi Papae credendum est We must giue more credite to the saying of an Author Gerson against maister Watson that is confirmed with the aucthoritie of the canonicall scripture then to the declaration of the Pope himselfe And agayne he sayth In sacris litteris excellenter erudito atque autoritatem catholicam proferenti plus est credendum quam generali concilio More credite is to be giuen to a man that is excellenly learned in the holy scriptures and bringeth forth a catholike aucthoritie then to the generall counsell All this considered I thinke it better to leane to the staffe of the scripture with Austen Gerson and other auncient fathers then with you and such as you are to trust to that broken staffe that maye and often times hath deceyued such as haue stayed themselues thereon I doe reuerence the wrytings and sayings of Fathers Chrysost in Galat. 1. so doe I the consent of the Church but the worde of God aboue both and neither of both without it For as Chrysostome saith Paulus verò etiam Angelis è coelo descendentibus praeponit scripturas idque valde congruenter Siquidem Angeli quamlibit magni tamen serui sunt ac ministri Caeterū omnes scripturae non à seruis sed ab vniuersorum Domino Deo venerūt ad nos Paule doth preferre the scriptures before the Aungels that come downe from heauen and that verie orderly For although the Aungels be great yet are they seruaunts and ministers But all the scriptures are commen vnto vs from him that is Lorde and God of all creatures I allowe therefore all your thrée staues and I lyke them all well so long as they be fast tyed togither But if you doe once pluck them in sunder then I am well pleased that you take to your selfe the two latter and leaue me the first to stay vpon Now concerning this matter of the presence WATSON Diuision 13. I am able by Gods helpe to shewe all these three thinges ioyned and knit togither so that we can not be deceyued in this point except we will deceaue our selues as many wilfully doe The scripture by playne and manifest words against the which hell gates shall neuer preuayle doth testifie and confirme our fayth in many places but specially in the wordes of our sauiour Christ himselfe in his last supper saying to his Disciples Math. 26. Take eate this is my bodye which is giuen for you This is my bloud of the newe Testament which is shed for many and for you in remission of sinnes which most plaine scriptures many haue gone about to delude to reduce them to a base vnderstanding by figuratiue speeches contending these words This is my body This is my bloud to be spoken figuratiuely and not as the words purport bicause other like sayinges in the scripture be taken figuratiuely as these I am the waye I am the dore The stone is Christ and such other wherein they haue declared their deuilishe and detestable sophistrie to their owne damnation and the subuersion of a great many other They professe themselues to be learned men but who heard euer tell of any such kinde of learning as to prooue one singuler by an other as if one should reason thus Thomas is an honest man ergo Iohn is an honest man The Swan is whyte ergo the Crow is white Which arguments be like this I am the waye is a figuratiue speeche ergo likewise This is my body is a figuratiue speech With such fond folies sophismes is the truth assaulted against all good learning and the rules of all true reasoning God open their eyes to see and followe his heauenly wisedome CROWLEY For the matter of the presence of Christ in the sacrament you haue manifest Scripture as you saye thys is my body this is my bloud c. Which Scriptures some haue gone about to delude with fonde follies and sophismes such as it pleaseth your selfe to frame I am sure you did neuer reade in any of their writings that you speake of any argument so framed as you haue set forth in your Sermon We doe know that one méere particuler cannot be proued by another And therfore we vse not to conclude as you would make your Auditorie beléeue that we doe