Traditions Act. 16. 4. this is one Act. 15. 29. To abstaine from bloud and strangled Exempt such dishes specified from such dressing haue with you to Masse to Mr. Mayes as I am inuited by Sir A. P◠peraduenture your selfe 2 Tim. 1. 13. We finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the forme of wholesome words in our Bibles And if this be Traditions vnwritten iudge you good Catholiques and set not so high a price vpon this arrant blunderer then whom a verier Goose neuer handled Goose-quill And so goe see if your leasure will serue Fathers that affirme somewhat not what they should The first you must see if you please is Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 4. for he will not trouble your seeing with Clemens Ignatius Dionysius Areopagita Polycarpus Egesippus Iustinus Martyr all elder than Irenaeus and vaunted of by his good masters and no doubt as much to poynt as Irenaeus who yet is held to be resolute and irrefrageable in that place Propter quod oportet deuitare quidem illos quae autem sunt Ecclesiae cum summâ diligentia deligere apprehendere veritatis Traditionem For which cause wee must shun and eschew them but with all possible diligence make choyce of the things belonging to the Church and lay hold vpon the Tradition of truth Which Tradition is no other thing but the rule of our faith The holy Scripture nothing vnwritten vncertaine beside much lesse against Scripture This is somewhat in your opinion but that which is the thing intended indeede is this which followeth in Irenaeus Et si quibus de aliquâ modicâ quaestione disceptatio esset nonne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere Ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab ijs de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum re liquidum est Thus hee questioneth I answere affirmatiuely yes No doubt we ought for resolution in poynts of doubtfull controuersie relye vpon that decision of the eldest Churches Doe we refuse this triall good Sir Gagger Where you will in what poynt you will I vndertake thus to iustifie the Church of England name you the Controuersie one or moe and maintaine the contrary if you can or dare The question is not with Irenaeus what must be Law but how the Law is to be expounded and interpreted Scripture the Law and Tradition the Interpretation that is the perpetuall praxis of the Church to expound the doubtfull texts of Scripture But Irenaeus proceedeth farther than so it will be said For What if the Apostles had left vs no writing at all Nonne oportet ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt ijs quibus committebant Ecclesias Farther indeede but to no purpose this is vpon supposition If it had been so which is not so nor could be so Secondly it followeth not that because if God had not giuen Israei a Law it is probable hee would haue continued his former course with Abraham Isaac and the Patriarchs therefore when he had giuen them his Law they were still to looke for immediate or Angelicall Reuelations as before No more is it consequent to reason pietie or Irenaeus intent that albeit if no Scripture had beene written onely Tradition must haue beene followed therefore Scripture being written wee should as otherwise addresse our selues vnto Tradition But thirdly wee come home to poynt Shew vs any thing tendred by those Ecclesiae antiquissimae to be belieued and obserued and see if wee respect it not as well and as much as you Till you shew vs such Traditions leaue your prating idlely at randome touching worth and weight and vse and authoritie of Traditions Your Traditions tendred in these dayes are onely in name as Simon Magus was and Simon Peter the same no more of credite than hee of pietie both alike Origen is next to be seene in cap. 6. ad Roman Hee calleth Baptisme of Infants a Tradition and let it be so It is the vniuersall iudgement and most ancient practise of the Catholique Church deduced at least from Scripture if not proued in Scripture as the controuersor himselfe confesseth Be it a Tradition it is more for our aduantage than otherwise For we admit receiue defend and practise it which must needes giue the lye vnto your proposition That according to the Doctrine of the Protestants Apostolicall traditions ancient customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige For the World knoweth your brazen face will blush to deny it wee receiue it practise it are obliged by it S. Damascen may stand by vnlesse you meane to make your friends with him a childe in yeares of yesterdayes birth in respect of those old Heroes of the Primitiue times Not that he saith any thing Lib. 4. cap. 17. more than an other or more effectuall and to purpose but because he is not of that desert or esteeme to be ranked with the Fathers of the Primitiue times being long post natus and a Partian many wayes for which cause I answere him not S. Chrysostome is peremptory and through for Traditions In 2. ad Thessal 2. vers 16. he saith Hence it is plaine and apparant that the Apostles deliuered not all in writing but very many things without booke Thus hee but to what end For no Protestant liuing in his right wits will deny this That the Apostles spake much more then is written And whatsoeuer they spake as Apostles in execution of their Ministery is of equall authority with that which they wrote For inke and paper conferre no authoritie or validity beyond the subiect and author of the writing Therefore the Tradition of the Apostles and of the Church is without all question of good credite and esteeme and so much wee professe Art 34. I graunt it hath displeased some which is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is Tradition which auoweth it seeke no further I see no reason why any should be so displeased therewith For if it be a Tradition of the Catholique Church and such Traditions onely hee meaneth Chrysostome saith there no more than hee may No more than Augustine and Tertullian haue said It is Tradition I goe no further No more will◠in any thing for my part I promise you that is controuerted betwixt you and vs at this day Make that appeare which you propose to haue been a Tradition of the Catholique Church and you and I shall soone agree shake hands and no more adoe Saint Basil you haue kept for the close it seemeth and for the vpshot of all and he indeed is in the place remembred very much for all Traditions vnwritten deriued to the Church from the Apostles I know some Protestants especially of preciser cut doe discredit the Author as a Counterfeit onely vpon Erasmus bare word who sauoured some discongruity which I could neuer finde of stile I am not of that or their minde Others being at a stand because of their owne priuate fancies oppose Saint Basil vnto Saint Basil For my part I beleeue
I confesse I haue dealt with this man as I would not haue dealt with euery one nor so as happely my person and calling would in some mens opinion require but sure as he and such as he deserue to be dealt withall For shall I suffer him to rayle vpon to blaspheme to calumniate to belye so impudently the Church of England as he doth beside his Tapster-like phrases of Ale and Hostesses and not make him heare of it on both his eares but guild him ouer with good language 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let himselfe or his companions or any Papist in the packe goe honestly sincerely soberly scholler-like to worke Let him set affection faction partiallity sinister ends apart Let him come home to the poynts controuerted without rowling rambling rauing ioyne issue instantly with the Question where it lyeth I am for him no man more ready more willing more submisse more desirous to goe calmely and sedate to worke for Gods glory the Churches tranquilitie the good and benefit of my selfe and others To learne to heare to be aduised to yeeld to euidence and conuicting proofe out of Scriptures out of Fathers the totall Tradition of the Church No otherwise willing to deale with moderate men then I haue and doe with that worthie Baronius in his kinde But for this man those that thinke otherwise must pardon me As a wise man is to be heard with attention so a foole must be answered according to his folly And so haue I answered this goodly Gagger Thus Curteous Reader hauing giuen thee an account of my comming vpon this employment and secondly of my carriage of it with the reason of my demeanure in it I come to the Gagger to cope with him leauing thee to the Protection of the Almighty Windsor December 28. Thine in Christs seruice RI MOVNTAGV THE PREFACE answering that of the Gagger's to his Catholike Reader IAm not nor would you haue me it seemeth by your inscription Sir Gagger much interessed in this your Preface For you will not I suppose admit meâ— for one of your Curteous Readers and I professe I am none of your Catholike Readers that is as you intend it according to the Romancutt Your inscription is onely to the Catholike Reader your addresse alone vnto the Cuâ—â—eous Reader And sure I am you neede both the one and other Catholike and Curteous or none at all to ouer-view your pure Naturalls Indeed because Catholike beleeuing any thing therefore so curteous admitting admiring any thing You are sure of a Curteous one without more adoe if he be a Catholike one that readeth it Such Readers you leade in a string by the nose you neede not pray them their patience spare that paines and engagement you are sure enough of so much patience as heart can wish though otherwise affected or but indifferent Readers would count it a pressure to peruse such idle treatises as you permit your selues leaue to send amongst them But Sir what incongruity is this which your Gagger-ship presenteth vs with at the first Gaping It was intended by you and accordingly fitted to choke vp the new Gospell and Gospellers for euer The very title doth challenge that opinion and threaten that performance and yet see your vnaduisednesse you would not haue it put into their mouths at all Catholikes alone are addressed and inuited to it that is Biddengape to begagged They onely are to reade it and to receiue aduice in what sort to vse it that is to serue themselues thereof with fruit and profit Whereas in all Eristicall discourses those ad oppositum are to be Readers if not onely yet principally as men to be conuerted or confounded of that which is written against them For my part I desire not nor would I willingly maske vnder a Catholike cloake at all yet as some Protestants sometime out of a desire to be Eye-witnesses of your Antique trickes there doe couertly repaire vnto your Masses so for once I care not if I take vpon me the stile of a Curteous and Catholike Reader to heare your aduice concerning those same points which are so very necessary for your Catholikes in perusing this treatise the better to serue themselues thereof with fruit and profit in all and in the seuerall points no doubt of great and much behoouefull obseruance The first point is an excuse of some negligence or at least ouersight in the very title of the Pamphlet For whereas the refutation of the errors of the Protestants so vaunted of was vndertaken to be out of expresse texts of their owne Bibles this indetermined generality may amuse and puzle the Reader who will be to seeke without all question out of which English Bible the alleaged passages are extracted Well thought vpon and to purpose Bonum factum had hee beene so punctuall and precise in his Texts of Fathers to bee seene for affirming God knoweth what oftentimes in none of which the editions are specified being many diuers and different In many of which no place designed or but at rouers and randon or els falsly and not to purpose Some aduice would haue beene thought vpon here Bibles are of more speciall care I grant Therefore as this was necessarily done so in discretion that should not haue beene left vndone And yet what such necesssity to tell the Reader out of which English Bible they were alleadged Great doubtlesse For Qui bené distinguit bene docet England hath brought forth within these few yeares past to the number of twenty seuerall Bibles I grant that perchance to the number of twenty and twenty thousand in many seuerall impressions and editions in folio in quarto in octauo as many hath Rome and Lions and Antwerpe and Paris and other places nay farre moe brought forth seuerall sorts of the vulgar Latine and sent them abroad into the world It was very vnaduisedly therefore done of Bellarmine Valentia Vasquez and the rest of our Controuersors not to giue vs a speciall direction vnto that precise Edition which they followed as you haue done for yours of 1615. in quarto by Robert Barker that we might addresse our selues in perusing Controuersies vnto the Edition by them followed the time place and quantity thereof Surely a materiall and most remarkeable aduice Catholikes could neuer haue perused this treatise with profit without this Oh but the Protestants sorts of Bibles are sarre different one from another Meane you in forme So are yours but then you enlarge beyond art and skill There are but fiue seuerall forms of Bibles at the most You mean in matter For the translations differing one from an other Then in plaine English you lye Name me ten of this twenty if you can Some different Translations there haue beene of late but authorized I know but two The Bishops as they call it and this last which hath perchance beene printed in seuerall formes twenty and twenty times but without diuersity in the Translation So that you might as well haue directed your
arise about the meaning of things expressed by those words There is none at all or little contention about the words of Scripture All is about the sense meaning of the Scripture how we may grow vnto resolution where doubts and ambiguities do intervene I will not goe with you about the bush I come home vp to your own desire The warrant authority of the holy Fathers that is the practise and tradition of the Church shall regulate I promise you my resolution and settle my iudgement in things that are huius controuersi I will not put in exceptionem fori For I am assured I need not I appeale vnto antiquity and will follow you where you dare aduenture to call me I know your performance that way I laugh at your vanity in braging of Fathers that haue vnderstood these places in the selfe same sense that Catholikes doe What Fathers haue said for you in Gagging our mouths I haue examine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euery one Their answers to the questions proposed to them their resolution for the points remembred he that will know may finde and as he findeth so pronounce What we can doe in our defence may appeare when we come to be defendants This I will promise out of my ownepoore reading I will droppe Fathers with a better read man then you are in them point per point and if I say not more for my cause that is for iustifying the Church of England then you haue done for calumniating of it or can say for iustifying your Popish faith I will be reconciled to Pope Vrbans faction For vnto the Church I neede none We vse not Sir scurility to consult with Coblers or Bakers or Tinkers they and their Trulls may meet at their stawling kenns with such clapperdogeons as your selfe Little better are those Patrons of your forlorne cause Abdias Amphilochius Martialis and others and those Tararagmales the Decretall Epistles of the Popes scullen-boyes making or the outcasts of some groomes of his stable Tertullian Basill Chrysostome and the rest of the worthies of their times we neither geld nor delumbate for speaking too plaine nor vse them like you as merchants doe their counters sometimes for a que sometime for a thousand pound Euer in their place we heare them speake rise vp with reuerence at their asseuerations yeeld vnto their dogmaticall conclusions Take not this as an enlargement or braggadochianisme I that say it will performe it Put me to it as you can or dare if I flye from antiquity hisse at me for euer I could haue played the foole in alliteration and hunted the letter as you haue done But I speake plaine English without a Cobler for Chrysost a Tinker for Tertullian a Baker for Basill Then Tertullian Basill Chrysostome and the rest of their compeeres I desire no better dayesman or Diribitores betwixt you and me Therefore set your heart at rest set out when you will I will walke along with you to the Fathers houses and stand to their award whatsoeuer But the fift and last is any thing rather then aduice indeed vox and praeterea nihil pure Popish Catholicisme that is insolent triumphing before victory nay before stroke striken in the field diuiding of the spoiles of poore Protestants men of no action or performance at all men that will looke before they leape and goe warily and wisely to worke neuer sell the skinne before the beare is slaine It may be some one nay any one Protestant that hath but beene at Rama and saluted the schoole of the Prophets can discerne Saul amongst them a fellow that as idly taketh God to witnesse as Saul bound Israell foolishly with an oath which in conclusion might haue cost him deare The man was afraid he should hardly finde credit vpon his word being happely knowne for one amongst his people that will speake when he cannot doe or meaneth not to make performance therefore he putteth forward with an oath and protesteth in the presence of God more then he is able beleeue me Reader to make good That it is not in the power of all the Protestants in England to finde in their owne Bibles one onely expresse text what to doe by which they can possibly prooue one onely point of the false doctrine I might say he doth aequiuocate in false doctrine and intendeth a refuge when he is shamed viz. That false doctrine is not prooued by our Bibles But I cauill not at words I take his meaning He suppeseth all our doctrine is false and not to be iustified out of Scripture Which if it be not I will grant it false and am ready to disclaime and to abiure it It is our doctrine he saith No man can forgiue sinnes but God If it be there is expresse text for it and that also exclusiue Luc. 5. 21. Who can forgiue sinnes but God onely An interrogation in your owne learning is equivalent to a Negatiue None but God can forgiue sinnes Here is neither adding nor diminishing nor changing ought Your owne Authenticke Latin hath it so Quis potest dimittere peccata nisi solus Deus It is our doctrine he saith No man hath seene God at any time If it be so it is expresse words of our and your Bibles No man hath seene God at any time Deum nemo vidit vnquam Iohan. 1. 18. Here are two texts that is more then one onely in their Bibles also not onely in our owne expresse as may be without adding diminishing or changing to prooue two points of our doctrine imputed vnto vs by himselfe collected out of his obseruations and yet the brasen face and leaden heart is not ashamed to bragge it so Catholikely and call God to record of an apparent lye It is our doctrine that some things are hard in diuine Scripture Saint Peter 2. 3. 16. saith as much It is our doctrine some things are easie Heb. 2. 2. Write the vision and make it plaine vpon tables that he who runneth may reade it Deut. 30. 11. This commandement which I cōmand thee this day is not hid frō thee neither is it farre off It were easie to passe through all points of controuerted opinions and shew the vanity of this vaunt the confident impudency of this Ignaro But extra oleus this is no place for that purpose I may happely finde him more worke this way then he can handsomely cleere his hands of in hast without adding art diminishing changing or such like practises of litting Law the Architectonicall science of our Popish Catholickes Ex animi tui sententia Gagger Who are more likely to play such trickes of legerdemaine those that neuer vsed to pare prune shaue gold or correct Authours but plainely send them foorth in puris naturalibus as they finde them or those that make a trade and profession of it and blush not to publish vnto the world that all Writers old or new sacred and prophane must speake as our Masters will haue them speake or hold
what meane you by them of whom where when vpon what grounds why a rambling logodiarrhe without wit or reason Edicta Principum Decreta Synodorum And iudicia pro tribunali are of large extent of different alotment For against God Equity Truth and Honesty what an idle discourse is it thus to shoote your bolts as boyes doe stones to make Duckes and Drakes vpon the surface of the water to glide smoothly for two or three grasings and then sinke to the bottome without any more adoe Adde quantity to iudgements Decrees Edicts wee shall know what you would say and so answere As for humane wisedome that helpe on our right hand haue you such cause to boast we haue no sense nor reason I thinke you doe not find vs such arrant fooles as vtterly destitute of humane indowments If you doe the better for you You may cary the cause against vs without more adoe Customes we haue many of the better sort not all your anticke fits and gesticulations You haue not all antiquity had you haue many they neuer saw Silly man know you not most customes doe and may vary keepe your owne if you please we are not so wedded to them nor to all ours but vpon reason we haue will and may change by better warrant then you can auoide As for multitude we dare drip Siders with you old and late but these are meere flashes of your Catholike vanity I haue said it often I repeate it in the close that you may remember it the better at least you shall find that is my selfe that will ioyne issue with you when you dare to maintaine the doctrine of the Church of England and oppose the doctrine of the Romish Church by all of these or any of these Antiquitie Custome Multitude humane wisedome Iudgements Decrees Edicts and Councels If I haue not for me in all or euery one as good and better share and interest for my confession theÌ„ you for yours I wil yeeld As for Miracles Visions and such hobgoblin-stuffe I am contented you appropriate to your owne So did the Gentiles brag of the like as Chrysostome obserueth Orat. 1. in Iudai santes pag. 34. Edit Hesheâ— So did the Donatists as S. Augustine reporteth de notis Ecclesiae ca. 19. Their miracles were then as yours now Figmenta mendacium hominum aut portenta fallacium spirituum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a prouerbiall speech in Athenaeus Fooles may be frighted with Hagges and Fairies men of vnderstanding know it is but knauery At Lauretto Sichem Annuntiada or wheresoeuer we haue the like puppet playes amongst our Catholike neighbours Cachinnantibus daemonijs at such iugling tricks for their aduantage And yet take me not so as if I cast off all miracles I admit I admire them that were true for a true end the ratificatiou of Truth vnto the soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That such as would not yeeld vnto the word preached might yet be conuicted by that miraculous power saith Clemens in his Constituions This was that the world might beleeue but yet since and euer Chrysostome said true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One faith and beleefe is to be regulated not by miracles but by the Scripture which on good foundation we defend containes all that is Necessary for our saluation You haue done with your Reader and I with you till we meet againe at the next turne till then farewell A list of the seuerall errors imputed to the PROTESTANTS by this Gagger being so many Lyes I. THey maintaine in the first place that the Scriptures are easie to be vnderstood II. That in matters of Faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word III. That Apostolicall Traditions and ancient Customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs. IIII. That the Church can erre V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to be in a Tongue not vnderstood by all the Assistants VII That Saint Peter was not the first or chiefe among the Apostles and that none was greater or lesse among the twelue VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed IX That a Woman may bee supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine sinnes XII That we must not confesse our sinnes but onely to God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times XIIII That the Actions and Passions of the Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church XV. That no man can doe workes of Supererâ—gation XVI That by the fall of Adam we haue all lost our free-will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or eâ—ill XVII That it is impossible to keepe the Commandements of GOD though assisted with his Grace and the holy Ghost XVIII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation XIX That no good workes are meritorious XX. That Faith once had cannot be lost XXI That God by his will and ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall be damned and who saued XXII That euery man ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that hee is of the 〈◊〉 her of the praedestinate XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell keeper XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. XXV That we may not pray vnto them XXVI That the Angels cannot helpe us XXVII That no Saint departed hath afterward appeared to any vpon Earth XXVIII That Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth XXIX That they pray not for vs. XXX That we may not pray to them XXXI That the bones or reliques of Saints are not to be kept no vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead XXXII That Creatures cannot be sanctified or made more holy then they are already by their owne Nature XXXIII That Children may bee saued by their Parents faith without Baptisme XXXIV That imposition of hands vpon the people called by Catholikes Confirmation is not necessary nor to be vsed XXXV That the bread of the Supper is but a figure of the body of Christ not his body XXXVI That wee ought to receiue vnder both kindes and that one alone sufficeth not XXXVII That sacramentall vnction is not to bee vsed to the Sicke XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy Orders XXXIX That Priests and other religious persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded on holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good XLI That Iesus Christ descended not into hell nor deliuered thence the Soules of
wee must relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and her Pastors There be moe Pastors in the Church then the Pope though he be granted first he is not all There be moe Churches then his Church what hath Pope Vrban one man to doe with Pastors with the Church but that which wee know well enough by Pastors and Church in conclusion you meane the Pope I could interpret Saint Anselme well enough as that if a Controuersie were referred by the Church or an Heresie to be corrected in the Church which touched the case of the Catholicke Church it could not be put ouer more fitly to any one man by the Church representatiue in a Councel then vnto the Pope first Bishop of Christendome of greatest not absolute power amongst Bishops But I know your Saint Anselme well enough This was not his meaning he was partiall post natus not fit to speake in this cause nor amongst the Fathers A great Bishop I grant him He was Archbishop of Canterbury no great Doctor but respectiuely considering the barbarous times in which hee liued farre from being one of the ancient Fathers or their grand-child He liued in the dayes of King Henry the first and was a factionist for Pope Vrban his good Lord and Master So aske my fellow if I be a thiefe your bottle-ale Hostesse where you vse it seemeth to meete in Partridge alley with your gossips is well enough acquainted with these passages and can tell you as much as Saint Anselme could if an Heretick aske her who is Supreame ale-canner on Earth shee will answer no doubt why who but his holinesse In this case I beleeue them both alike as good reason for one as for other Sure yours are no better then those Corkes with which your Hostesse vseth to stop her bottles but agree as you can you and your Hostesse we proceede to the next Proposition III. That Apostolicall traditions and ancient customes of the holy Catholique Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs THis is also contrary to the expresse words of our owne Bibles How wherefore we shal see when we can In the interim thus wee draw on Traditions are of two Sorts in the writings of Antiquity as the word is ambiguous of two significations There are Traditions writteÌ„ improperly so called and there are Traditions vnwritten deliuered from hand to hand The name is sometime applyed to the one and sometime attributed to the other you meane not here Traditions written I know it no more doe we we agree to take it of vnwritten Traditions in opposition vnto Scripture as where Tertullian speaketh in his Book de coronâ militis thus Scripturam nullam invenies Traditio tibi praetenditur euictrix Scripture for this you can finde none the originall came from Tradition Traditions are considered Originally in their Authors Christ the Apostles the Church priuatemen which haue their authority more or lesse answerable to the worth of their Originals Againe they are considered materially in regard of what they treat of what they containe whereof they are of Orders Rights practices opinions in common vse and custome amongst men Traditions instituted by our Sauiour euen in points of beliefe Faith haue Diuine authority as his written word hath Traditions deriued from the Apostles haue equall authority with their Preachings and their writings I approue that processe of the Controuersor The authority of Gods Word is not because it is written but because it commeth from God Traditions of the Church haue such authority as the Church hath all binde and oblige as they were intended and as their extent is For they must be considered not onely from the Author but from the End Some were intended to be Permanent others onely to be transient for a Time onely or else for euer Some vniuersall some onely Partiall for the Catholique or else a priuate Church Such variety and difference is in Traditions which this Hudler confoundeth to deceiue his Nouice with indistinctions Now the question is not whether there be Traditions or haue beene heretofore we doe grant it in euery kinde that either there are or haue beene Traditions of Christ his Apostles the Church priuate men The question is not of what authority they are we grant their authority is from and as the Authors but the question is of their Credit and Extent First whether the pretended Traditions of Christ and his Apostles were indeed so ordained or deriued as they are pretended or rather counterseits and suppositions Proue them true vndoubted and we rise vp vnto them Secondly to what ends they were instituted whether to last and indure euer or for a time whether to supply the defects of Scripture not else sufficient for the end This we denye for it is our Position that the written Word of God without vnwritten Traditions is perfect and absolute and sufficient for the end whereto it was intended To make the man of God absolute in euery good worke Abuse not your selues nor your Proselites here slander not nor belye vs giue vs any Tradition of Christ or his Apostles giue vs good euidence for what you say goe proue it conuincingly to haue come from them by Scripture Fathers consent of Antiquity can you aske any more and we receiue it with both our armes as Gods holy Word and Institution Quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ab Apostolis praecepta benè traduntur quanquam scripta non reperiantur Though I finde it not vpon record in Scripture yet I receiue it as proceeding from the Apostles if the vniuersall Church imbrace it said Saint Augustine and I subscribe vnto it bring vs any such Tradition so accepted so receiued so commended and you shall see wee will reuerence it as much as you or more but if you giue me copper in stead of gold pardon me if I beleeue you not nor receiue it for pay Ecclesiasticall constitutions are moe more certaine of the same authority with the Churches written Lawes which binde generally if made for generall obligation or else particularly if they haue but locall and confined limitation omni modo bind they doe vnto obedience so long in such sort so farre forth as the authors did intend till the same authority disaâ—ow them which gaue vnto them being at the first In the 34. Article to this purpose wee reade of and concerning Ecclesiasticall Traditions It is not necessary that Traditions and ceremonies be in all places one or vtterly like for that at all times they haue beene diuers and may be changed according to diuersities of Countries times and mens manners So that nothing be ordained against Gods word Your Catholique cares be they round or long cannot be offended with this position I thinke Whosoeuer through his priuate iudgement willingly and purposely doth openly breake the Traditions and ceremonies of the Church which be not repugnant vnto the word of God and be ordained and approued by common authoritie ought to be rebuked openly that others may
riddles Saint Hier in praefat commen in Eph. Saint Aug. Ep. 119. cap. 21. saith The things c. Saint Gregorie hom 6. in Ezech and many others confesse the same Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible Math. 23. 2. 2. 3. * Note here that he doth not say whosoeuer but whatsoeuer giuing vs thereby to vnderstand that not onely the bonds of sinne but as well all other knots and difficulties in matters of saith and manners are to be loosed by Saint Peter and by the Pastors that succeed him in the Church See more to this effect Deut. 17. 8. See Aggee the 2. and 11. 2 Chron. 19. 8. See Fathers which affirme the same S. Gregor Nazian in Oratione excusat Tertul. lib. de praescrip Haeret S. Cyprian Lib. 1. Epi. 3. S. Aug. lib. 1. cont Cres cap. 33. lib. cont epist Fund ca. 5. Whether now wilt thou beleeue so great a Bishop as S. Anselme or some other Host or Hostesse that sell bottle-ale Contrary to express words of their owne Bible 1. 2. 3. Thas Traditions are to be receiued see more Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer beare great Saint Basil See Fathers that affirme the same S. Basil lib. de spirit Sanct. ca. 27. saith that some things we haue from Tradition of the Apostles both which haue force alike vnto godlinesse Some things wee haue from Scripture other things from the Apostles Traditions both which haue like force vnto godlinesse Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer-beare great Saint Basil And consequently cannot erre See more Iohn 16. 13. Therefore it is not forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to bee in a tongue not vnderstood by the Assistants Now the names of the twelue Apostles are these the first Simon which is called Peter Therefore c. And what other thing is it for Peter to confirme and strengthen his brethren than to practice and exercise his greatnesse ouer them For he that doth strengthen and confirme is greater and they who are strengthened c. are made thereby inferiors to him who doth strengthen and confirme them See more for proofe hereof c. See Fathers that affirme the same Theoph. in 22. Luk calleth Peter Prince of the Disciples Eusebius in Chron First Bishop of Christians S. Cyril of Hier. Cat. 2. Prince and most excellent of all the Apostles S. Chrys hom 55. in Mat. Pastor and Head of the Church Cont. Crescon 3. 15. Contrary to their own Bible 2 Thes 2. 3. For so Saint Peter should then be Antichrist for he was Pope and the very first of Popes Therefore the great Antichrist shall be a particular man Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible See more Mat. 16. 19. See Fathers that affirme the same Contrary to the expresse words of your owne Bible Therefore sinnes may be confessed vnto man See the Fathers who affirme the same Tertul. lib. ad Mart. ca. 1. Pope Vrban the second graunted a plenary Indulgence to such as would goe to the Holy-Wars An. Christi 160. Hence hath the ground of Indulgences beene alwayes taken but more principally from the super abundant merit of Iesus Christ Whence it appeareth that man by assistance of Gods grace may doe some things counselled And these we call workes of supererogation See one Father for the same in stead of many I could produce See more Eccles 15. 14. Is it not then plaine wilfulnesse to denye Freewill See Fathers that affirme the same S. Iren. Lib. 4. cap. 7. Contrary to express words of their owne Bible Briefly if the Commandements were impossible they could binde no man For it is not to bee conceiued how one should sinne in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid It is not to be conceiued how one should sin in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid Lastly Saint Basill who saith it is an impious thing to say that the commandements of God are impossible See more 1 Cor. 9. c. See Fathers that affirme the same S. Ambrose de Apolog. Dauid ca. 6. S. Hier. lib. 3. cont Pelag. S. Aug. de spirit lit cap. vlt. 1. 2. 3. Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible See more Ose 13. 9 c. See Fathers that affirm the same S. Aug. lib. 1. ciuit Tert. de Orat cap. 8. S. Cyprian Lib. 4. Epist 2. S. Ambrose Lib. 2. de Cain et Abel will nâ—t that we refer vnto God the preuarication of Adam or treason of Iudas though hee knew the sin before it was committed Contrary to their owne Bible Therefore S. Paul himself was not assured infallibly A point of doctrine so improbable that we will not labour to ouerthrowe it by any further proof of Fathers Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible Mat. 18. 10 Therefore they had their Angell-keeper This very passage Saint Cyril of Alexandria Lib. 4. con Iulian. applieth to our Angel-keeper See more Acts 12. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 10. Contrary to expresse words in your owne Bibles Zach. 1. 9 10 11. Now what I pray you is a praier if this be not Contrary to their owne Bible That this was spoken to a true Angell and not to Christ Basil l. 3. c. Eunomium S. Chrys ho. 7. in laud. S. Pauli and vpon 1. of Col. and S. Hier. vpon 66 of Esay Which beeing so who for shame can say He prayed not vnto him See Fathers that affirme what hath beene said touching Angels For some such my self haue met with Therefore Saints deceased haue appearea to some on earth At Saint August witnesseth Lib. de cura mortis cap. 14. Nor can any be so senslesse as to say they pray for them selues Contrary to their owne Bible If an Horse or an Asse should pray c. Where note that Theodoret paraphrasing vpon Baruch interpreteth this very place as Catholiques doo Now is the Sunne more cleare than that Saints pray for vs Iob 1. 5. 〈◊〉 S. August himself expounds this very place as Catholiques doo in his Annot. vpon Iob. If it had not been the common custome in the time of Iob to inuocate the Saints deceased it had bin friuâ—lous for Eliphas to haue asked Iob to which of the Saints he wou'd t 〈…〉 See more Contrarie to expresse words of their owne Bibles In second of Kings but is the 4 by the account of Catholiques 13. 21. S. Chrysost To. 5. cont Gentil quòd Christus sit Deus in an whole Booke proues heerby and by the like vertue of other Saints that Christ their Lord and Master is God whose seruants napkins and shadows could do such wonders Are they not therefore fooles and blind that keepe such a â—ooting at Holy-bread Hooker Poor Protestant whither now is thy figure fled See Fathers that affirm the same S. Ignat. in his Epist ad Smyr Iustin Mar. Apol. 2. ad Antoninum Now say the truth and shame the Diuell are not they sick in their wits which will oppose such plaine Scriptures Deuter. 23. 22. Psal 66. 13. Psal 19. 11. 1. Tim. Math. 5. 12. Ier. 35. 5. Therefore it is grounded c. Contrary to their owne Bibles These freed Captiues cannot bee the soules of the Saued which no man in his right wits can call Captiues nor of the damned for so the diuels should be brought again into heauen Therefore they were the soules of the Fathers which Christ deliuered out of hell Acts 2. 27. Which very words Saint August applieth to the paint of Purgatory and addeth Who but an Infidel will deny Christ to haue descended into hell Ep. 99. ad Euodium Saint Ambrose Ser. 20 in Psal 118. Saint Hierome vpon 4 of Amos Saint August vpon the 37 Psal Saint Gregory lib. 4. Dial. explicate this very place of Purgatory Heb. 9. 1. 5. Lo Saint Paul calleth the pictures of the Cherubins which Salomon made an Ordinance of diuine Seruice which Protestants call the making of Idols who now shall we beleeue whether S. Paul or a Protestant When painting and grauing of 〈◊〉 tures is so farre from beeing Idolatry that it is prooued to be a Science diuinely infused by God himself Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible and he said Draw not nigh hither c. Lo how cleer a place is produced heer against Protestants where an insensible â—reature without reason was commanded by God himselfe to be honored Now the principal reason why the Arke was worshipped was in regard of the Images that were vpon it which as S. Ierom saith the lewes did worship in his Ep. ad Marcellan Num. 21. 8. Hence are euidently prooued diuers things against Protestants c. See Fathers that affirme the same Saint Ambrose Ser. 1. in Psal 118. Where first our Lord hauing taught his owne Disciples that excellent Prayer of all praiers which hee would haue them to offer to him the Pater noster or our Lords Praier hee afterwards in many other places willeth them to pray alwaies as Luke 18. 1. The Angels in the Prophet Esay Esay 6. and the beasts in the Apoc. Apo. 4. which rest neither dâ—y nor night do thrice repeat c.
there is none So that the Holy ghost is made to speake plaine non-sense to fit a turne for a Catholique cause This may stand and yet the Protestants assersion be not infeebled He expounded vnto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himselfe For they doe not deny but that some things are hard That other cannot stand For it implieth that all things are hard So we haue obseruable a pretty niggling tricke of a false knaue a small word In left out to marre all For with In the text is for this and no more Some things in Scripture needed exposition and therefore were hard But without In though there be no Sense but what simple Proselyte attendeth to that the implication is All Scriptures need Interpretation and so are all hard which the good Catholique beleeueth not himselfe dareth not auouch yet faine would haue his nouice take it so to traduce the tenent of the Protestants that some Scriptures are open and easie Thus in the very in-steppe of his stolen pamphlet he belyeth the Protestant for his opinion abuseth the Scripture to bolster his Forgery and yet for all that fighteth onely with his owne fancy as dogges by moone-light barke at their owne shadowes To your question then inferred vpon the premises I answere first As easie to be vnderstood of the vnlearned now as of them then who were none of the Learned ones at that time and had incident impediments at that time Secondly scriptures hard then vnto them may be and are easie now without any such Interpretation For one Day teacheth another and especially in Predictions as these all were that is after easie which at first was hard If now they be not easie there is no explicite faith implicite faith must saue all Sir Gagger whosoeuer you are know that Scripture is not all of one height depth or alloy Some was hard that now is easie Some easie now and euer Some yet hard but not for euer To be vnderstood but not in the way only in visione faciei when wee shall see face to face and know God as we are knowne and some points at least explicitely not now to bee vnderstood nor yet then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it was a secret a mystery saith Basil of Seleucia at the beginning shall neuer cease to be a mystery In some point or other the worke of our Redemption in Christ he meaneth See more who list they shall see nothing to purpose No Scripture saith Saint Peter is of priuate motion or Interpretation as you will Ergo what All Scripture is hard Teach me this Consequence and I will thanke you for my New-Logicke This I doe see where the Scripture is hard and needeth interpretation there that Spirit which dictated it at first must direct in the vnderstanding it at last For man is permitted to expound himselfe and best can giue his owne meaning So this Text is not to proue that Scripture is hard but to proue that in Case there be a Doubt we are not to addresse vnto priuate Fancies or peculiar opinions but to the Direction of Gods Spirit and that in the Church I subscribe Math. 13. 11. 36. it is remembred that Christ taught the People in Parables Well what if he did Why a Parable is a darke kinde of speech so that there is obscurity in the Scriptures I answer No man denyeth but there is obscurity No man denieth but Parables are obscure Some not all In some things not in all Those Parables were obscure admit it that are remembred there but they are not all the Parables that are in Scripture Nor are Parables the hundreth part of Scripture and many of them are of easie vnderstanding and many are expounded where proposed and when vnderstood best remembred most beneficiall to the Hearer Luke 24. 45. Then opened hee their vnderstandings that they might vnderstand the Scripture which act of our Sauiour vnto and vpon his Disciples at that time slow of heart may rather excite vnto then detar from the Reading of the Scriptures For that which hee did to them personally he will doe vnto all mediately and doth it vnto the simplest actually of those that are interessed in him though but by a generall tye For the poorest member of the Church doth now vnderstand that which he taught them that he was the Messiah the Promised seede according vnto Prophecies and Predictions of old then hard now easie 1 Cor. 12. 8. Saint Paul speaking of diuersity of guifts saith To one is giuen by the spirit the word of wisdome to another the word of knowledge by the same spirit which words are as much against vnderstanding Scriptures hard by interpretation as Scriptures easie with interpretation For those that haue it haue it by guift immediate by God without helpe or instruction Those that haue it not by warrant of this place and goe no further cannot haue it at all because these things remembred were all of Infusion of extraordinary indowment and so singular and peculiar Againe admit it in common course yet it is rather a warrant for facility of Scripture because there are designed Expositors or if for difficulty because expositors are needfull yet this difficulty is but in some to some not vniuersall of which we must be vnderstood and of no other if wee be rightly taken Luke 18. 34. The Disciples vnderstood none of those things Doth it follow they vnderstood not any thing in the Law or Prophets which were the Scriptures of those times If you cannot read a letter in Cipher can you not read a plaine letter in Italique hand Those things beside that they were not then written and so no part of Scripture and so not to purpose were particular and personall and not performed Now they are performed now they are in Scripture now easie to be vnderstood of all without Expositors the Sufferings of our Sauiour at Ierusalem To them then they were hidden are they now to you Catholikes Doe you not know Christ suffered at Ierusalem If you doe not I grant Scripture is hard and hidden but hidden vnto those that perish onely because they will hud-winke themselues and not see Not a Lixa Calo or Agaso not a shepheard or muleter but doth or else may know this now which then was a secret not knowen vnto many many particulars not vnto the blessed Virgin her selfe such difference there is in things wrought by time so little wisdome to take things at all times alike and to conclude alike Indeed the same that is the thing in question as little as those Texts doe and to as little purpose as those texts doe Irenaeus Lib. 2. 47. Hauing insisted vpon and instanced in obscurity in Gods word in Nature he proceedeth vnto Gods word in Scripture thus Si ergo in rebus creaturae quaedam quidem eorum adiacent Deo quaedam autem in nostram venerunt scientiam quid mali est si et eorum quae in scripturis requiruntur vniuersis
feare to doe the like as hee that offendeth against the common order of the Church hurteth the authoritie of the magistrate and woundeth the consciences of the weake Loe Traditions not onely auowed but maintained the infringers censured So that but reade ouer your Position againe That Apostolicall traditions and auncient customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs compare that with this decision and then giue your Catholike honesty the lye Euery particular or national Church hath authority to ordaine to change and abolish ceremonies or Rites of the Church ordained onely by mans authoritie so that all things be done vnto edification Nor is this against your Catholique Doctrine or practise and yet this is all that our Church deliuereth touching traditions in their publique authorised receiued constitutions Priuate opinions if there be any tye vs no more then they doe you Nay we deale more sincerely and positiuely than you doe distinguishing Traditions for plainenesse sake whereas your Fathers of Trent giue this onely in commaund That Traditions be receiued as the Scripture playing fast and loose in ambigiuous termes not differencing humane diuine Apostolicall Apotacticall Christian Paganish generall particular free of necessity temporary or permanent Traditions Can you or any Papist defend this The Popish Doctrine thus deliuered is not onely contrary to expresse words of your owne Bibles but to pietie and religion to sense and reason that any idle fantasticke foolish impious prophane humane inuention for your words runne generally and extend to all should be receiued as Holy Scripture but the protestant doctrine declared as before is not contrary to expresse words of our Bibles 2 Thessal 2. 15. Therefore Brethren stand fast and hold the traditions which yee haue receiued whether by word or by our Epistle Therefore c. Wee deny not obedience vnto this exhortation but indeauour to stand fast in the word of truth and hold fast all those Traditions which Saint Paul deliuered either by word or writing All Protestants giue due respect to such diuine authority Shew any that doth not and you say somewhat But good Sir Gagger Hee that refuseth those manifold botcheries and brokerages of your Romish Church and casteth them off as impious and ridiculous doth not streight transgresse this Apostolicall direction no more than he that reiecteth a counterfeit Passe made by some jarkman vnder an hedge for a Rogue doth resist lawfull authority Proue your Tradition such as you pretend then see what we will say vnto you 2 Thessal 3. 6. Now we command you brethren in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ that you withdraw you selues from euery brother that walketh disorderly and not after the Tradition he receiued of vs. Which we receiue and obey But Tradition may runne for Example here in effect not according to our example And so Saint Chrysostome vpon the place or it may be something extant also in writing or order prescribed them by the Apostle temporary and occasionall or of morall dispensation If you can name it wee will not refuse for our conclusion differerh not from yours Traditions are to be receiued and doe oblige vs but you must let vs know them and their credite first 1 Cor. 11. 2. I praise you brethren saith the Apostle that you remember mee in all things and keepe the Traditions as I haue deliuered them vnto you So hee would vs were hee now liuing so would hee not you that haue broken them for that which hee deliuered vnto them that hee receiued of the Lord 1 Cor. 11. 23. and that which hee receiued was touching the whole intire communion the Cups as well as the Bread you haue broken this Tradition through your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and presumptions But can you resolue mee what Tradition hee meaneth heere perhaps they were Temporall and not intended for vs. If such your owne rule is They oblige not It may be no vnwritten Traditions but the written word at least such things as be written now Howsoeuer the allegation is not to purpose for it doth not proue what the Protestants deny and that which it proueth they deny not That Traditions are to be kept 2 Timoth. 2. 2. Where there is no expresse mention of Traditions but onely of things receiued from Saint Paul by which Traditions peraduenture not written are meant and peraduenture things written who can tell whether these or those shew them and we refuse them not Iohn 20. 30. and 21 25. are both to one purpose Tradition is in neither text expressed nor to be collected from either for neither text is for Tradition both one other intimate no more but that all which Christ did or said is not recorded in the Gospels Doth any ideot belieue the contrary This fellow might begge vs if wee said or taught that Christ did nor said any thing but that is written Till then himselfe may be begged for a foole that would put vpon vs this vnhandsome beliefe All that Christ did or said is not written therefore any thing must be receiued that is pretended to be Tradition Apostolicall or Diuine 1 Cor. 11. 34. Paul saith The rest I will set in order when I come Therefore you may goe learne to bake a batch of Bread or goe drinke an health to the Vicar of St. Fooles with your Host of Holborne The inference is Saint Paul had not ordered all till hee came when hee came hee made good his promise and set all things in order at Corinth therefore any thing though neuer so absurd which Papists pretend as Tradition must be receiued as Gods word 1 Timoth. 6. 2. Saint Paul saith nothing of Tradition except these words will beare out Tradition These things teach and exhort which things are written not vnwritten For These things doe designe things there remembred Saint Iohn 2. Epist 12. saith He had many things to write vnto them which hee would not commit to paper but come himselfe and teach them by word of mouth which hee repeateth Ep. 3. vers 13. Therefore hee wrote not all things vnto them And who saith hee did therefore what our Gagger is a goose no other sequell and so hee must stand vntill hee shew that some of his Romish Traditions were part of that which Saint Iohn would not write vnto them but teach them by word of mouth Act. 16. 4. and 15. 28. Wee reade of no Traditions wee doe of Decrees ordayned in the Councell at Ierusalem but the mischiefe is they are written and yet so our Gagger and his Comerades keepe them not For tell mee did you neuer eate a Goose or her pudding Capon Hen or Chickens at your Bottle-Ale house in Partridge-Ally if not there nor otherwhere I haue nothing to say to you But if so I returne it to your teethe you belie vs in that which you doe your selues The Traditions Apostolicall and auncient customes of the holy Church oblige you not For among these Decrees or as you will