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scripture_n canonical_a church_n tradition_n 2,634 5 9.1479 5 false
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A02568 The peace of Rome Proclaimed to all the world, by her famous Cardinall Bellarmine, and the no lesse famous casuist Nauarre. Whereof the one acknowledgeth, and numbers vp aboue three hundred differences of opinion, maintained in the popish church. The other confesses neere threescore differences amongst their owne doctors in one onely point of their religion. Gathered faithfully out of their writings in their own words, and diuided into foure bookes, and those into seuerall decads. Whereto is prefixed a serious disswasiue from poperie. By I.H. Azpilcueta, Martín de, 1492?-1586.; Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656.; Bellarmino, Roberto Francesco Romolo, Saint, 1542-1621. Disputationes de controversiis Christianae fidei. English. Selections. 1609 (1609) STC 12696; ESTC S106027 106,338 252

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in_o faith_n etc._n and_o manner_n there_o be_v some_o catholic_n that_o deny_v which_o as_o yet_o be_v not_o by_o the_o church_n condemn_v for_o heretic_n but_o sure_o it_o be_v rash_a erroneous_a and_o near_o to_o heresy_n to_o affirm_v that_o particular_a counsel_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v bellarmine_n l._n 2._o ch_n 5._o p._n 114._o second_o alanus_fw-la copus_n against_o bellarmine_n it_o be_v a_o very_a uncertain_a thing_n etc._n what_o be_v decree_v of_o image_n in_o the_o council_n of_o francford_n for_o the_o ancient_a author_n agree_v not_o with_o themselves_o by_o reason_n of_o this_o confusion_n alanus_n copus_n in_o his_o four_o and_o five_o dialogue_n teach_v that_o in_o that_o synod_n of_o francford_n the_o heretical_a council_n of_o constantinople_n be_v only_o condemn_v the_o nicene_n not_o only_o not_o condemn_v but_o confirm_v which_o opinion_n i_o wish_v to_o be_v true_a but_o i_o suspect_v it_o to_o be_v false_a bellarmine_n ibid._n chap._n 8._o pag._n 137._o three_o bellarmine_n against_o vega._n some_o answer_n etc._n as_o vega_n in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n b._n 3._o c._n 39_o that_o any_o council_n be_v lawful_a if_o hold_v by_o the_o faithful_a not_o for_o that_o historian_n witness_v so_o but_o because_o the_o council_n itself_o define_v so_o of_o itself_o for_o they_o use_v ever_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o their_o act_n so_o to_o determine_v their_o meeting_n lawful_a and_o in_o the_o holy_a ghost_n but_o sure_a this_o answer_n be_v not_o find_v for_o first_o the_o ancient_a counsel_n have_v not_o wont_a to_o witness_v so_o of_o themselves_o second_o either_o it_o appear_v to_o we_o that_o the_o council_n be_v a_o lawful_a one_o or_o it_o appear_v not_o if_o it_o do_v appear_v such_o a_o decree_n be_v in_o vain_a if_o it_o do_v not_o appear_v we_o shall_v as_o well_o doubt_v of_o that_o decree_n as_o of_o the_o council_n bellarmine_n same_o book_n cap._n 9_o pag._n 148._o four_o parisienses_n against_o cajetan_n turrecremata_fw-la and_o bellarmine_n against_o canus_n of_o general_a counsel_n there_o be_v diverse_a opinion_n among_o us._n etc._n first_o the_o divine_n of_o paris_n and_o all_o those_o which_o teach_v that_o the_o council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n think_v that_o lawful_a general_a counsel_n can_v err_v even_o before_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o pope_n contrary_n to_o these_o teach_v other_o as_o cajetan_n in_o apolog._n io._n turrecremata_fw-la 21_o lib._n 3._o cap._n 32.33_o 34._o but_o when_o counsel_n define_v something_o with_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o pope_n legate_n not_o have_v have_v full_a instruction_n what_o authority_n they_o have_v be_v still_o in_o controversy_n but_o i_o think_v such_o a_o council_n may_v err_v before_o the_o pope_n own_o confirmation_n canus_n and_o other_o hold_v the_o contrary_n bellarm._n l._n 2._o c._n 11._o p._n 153._o five_o bellarmine_n against_o gratian._n gratian_n do_v 19_o affirm_v etc._n that_o the_o decretal_a epistle_n of_o pope_n ought_v to_o be_v number_v among_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o di._n 20._o he_o say_v that_o the_o canon_n of_o counsel_n be_v of_o the_o same_o authority_n with_o decretal_a epistle_n and_o pope_n gregory_n in_o his_o first_o b._n epist._n 24._o say_v he_o reverence_n the_o four_o first_o counsel_n as_o the_o four_o evangelist_n i_o answer_v first_o that_o gratian_n be_v deceive_v by_o a_o deprave_a copy_n which_o he_o follow_v etc._n etc._n as_o for_o gregory_n i_o answer_v that_o his_o as_o do_v not_o signify_v equality_n but_o similitude_n bellarm._n l._n 2._o c._n 12._o pag._n 161._o six_o three_o rank_n of_o popish_a divine_n dissent_v in_o this_o question_n etc._n whether_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o the_o council_n i_o find_v three_o opinion_n of_o our_o doctor_n first_o that_o the_o council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n so_o affirm_v all_o the_o heretic_n of_o this_o time_n and_o the_o same_o be_v teach_v by_o card._n cameracensis_n io._n gerson_n jacob_n almain_n 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to_o be_v understand_v of_o those_o which_o neither_o indeed_o nor_o in_o desire_n be_v of_o the_o church_n bellarmine_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o pag._n 159._o nine_o bellarmine_n against_o alphonsus_n de_fw-fr castro_n alphonsus_n de_fw-fr castro_n in_o his_o second_o book_n of_o the_o just_a punishment_n of_o heretic_n etc._n chap._n 34._o teach_v that_o heretic_n and_o apostate_n if_o once_o baptize_v be_v member_n and_o part_n of_o the_o church_n although_o they_o open_o profess_v false_a doctrine_n which_o opinion_n as_o it_o be_v plain_o false_a so_o may_v easy_o be_v refute_v bellarm._n l._n 3._o c._n 4._o p._n 196._o ten_o alphonsus_n and_o other_o against_o bellarmine_n etc._n some_o catholic_n doubt_v concern_v schismatic_n whether_o they_o be_v of_o the_o church_n yea_o alphonsus_n de_fw-fr castro_n flat_o affirm_v they_o to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o show_v the_o contrary_a out_o of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o father_n bellarmine_n l._n 3._o c._n 5._o where_o also_o he_o hold_v the_o definition_n which_o pope_n nicholas_n give_v of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v imperfect_a p._n 200.203_o decad_n vi_o first_o catechism_n rom._n waldensis_n turrecremata_fw-la etc._n etc._n against_o some_o nameless_a papist_n that_o person_n excommunicate_a be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n etc._n be_v teach_v by_o the_o catechism_n of_o rome_n by_o tho._n waldensis_n io._n de_fw-fr turrecremata_fw-la io._n driedo_n and_o some_o other_o the_o contrary_n be_v defend_v by_o other_o who_o three_o objection_n be_v answer_v by_o bellarmine_n bellarm._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 6._o pag._n 205._o second_o bellarmine_n against_o some_o not_o name_v papist_n for_o answer_v of_o that_o place_n of_o austen_n l._n 2._o against_o cresconius_n etc._n that_o notorious_a wicked_a man_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n not_o only_o brentius_n and_o calvin_n heretic_n but_o some_o catholic_n fain_o two_o church_n and_o they_o do_v but_o feign_v they_o
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hear_v first_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o old_a religion_n to_o omit_v the_o direct_a charge_n of_o gregory_n nissen_n and_o ambrose_n thus_o have_v jerome_n upon_o the_o psalm_n the_o lord_n will_v declare_v and_o how_o will_v he_o declare_v not_o by_o word_n but_o by_o write_v in_o who_o writing_n in_o the_o write_n of_o his_o people_n etc._n etc._n our_o lord_n and_o saviour_n therefore_o tell_v we_o and_o speak_v in_o the_o scripture_n of_o his_o prince_n our_o lord_n will_v declare_v it_o to_o we_o in_o the_o scripture_n of_o his_o people_n in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o scripture_n be_v read_v to_o all_o the_o people_n that_o be_v so_o read_v as_o that_o all_o may_v understand_v not_o that_o a_o few_o may_v understand_v but_o all_o what_o faithful_a man_n say_v augustine_n though_o he_o be_v but_o a_o novice_n before_o he_o be_v baptize_v and_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v not_o with_o a_o equal_a mind_n read_v and_o hear_v all_o thing_n which_o after_o the_o 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affair_n i_o follow_v my_o trade_n i_o maintain_v a_o wife_n and_o child_n and_o have_v a_o great_a charge_n to_o look_v to_o it_o be_v not_o for_o i_o to_o read_v the_o scripture_n etc._n but_o for_o they_o which_o have_v cast_v off_o the_o world_n which_o have_v take_v up_o the_o solitary_a top_n of_o mountain_n for_o their_o dwelling_n which_o live_v this_o contemplative_a kind_n of_o life_n continual_o what_o say_v thou_o o_o man_n etc._n be_v it_o not_o for_o thou_o to_o turn_v over_o the_o scripture_n because_o thou_o be_v distract_v with_o infinite_a care_n nay_o than_o it_o be_v for_o thou_o more_o than_o for_o they_o for_o they_o do_v not_o so_o much_o need_v the_o help_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o you_o that_o be_v toss_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o wave_n of_o worldly_a business_n and_o soon_o after_o etc._n neither_o can_v it_o be_v possible_a that_o any_o man_n shall_v without_o great_a fruit_n be_v perpetual_o conversant_a in_o this_o spiritual_a exercise_n of_o read_v and_o straight_o etc._n let_v we_o not_o neglect_v to_o buy_v ourselves_o book_n lest_o we_o receive_v a_o wound_n in_o our_o vital_a part_n and_o after_o he_o have_v compare_v the_o book_n of_o scripture_n to_o gold_n he_o add_v but_o what_o say_v they_o etc._n if_o we_o understand_v not_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o those_o book_n what_o gain_n we_o then_o yes_o sure_o etc._n though_o thou_o do_v not_o understand_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v there_o lay_v up_o yet_o by_o the_o very_o read_v much_o holiness_n be_v get_v although_o it_o can_v be_v that_o thou_o shall_v be_v alike_o ignorant_a of_o all_o thou_o read_v for_o therefore_o have_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n so_o dispense_v this_o word_n that_o publican_n fisher_n tent-maker_n shepherd_n &_o goat-beard_n plain_a unlettered_a man_n may_v be_v save_v by_o these_o book_n lest_o any_o of_o the_o simple_a sort_n shall_v pretend_v this_o excuse_n that_o all_o thing_n which_o be_v say_v shall_v be_v easy_a to_o discern_v and_o that_o the_o workman_n the_o servant_n the_o poor_a widow_n and_o the_o most_o unlearned_a of_o all_o other_o by_o hear_v of_o the_o word_n read_v may_v get_v some_o gain_n and_o profit_n and_o the_o same_o father_n elsewhere_o i_o beseech_v you_o say_v he_o that_o you_o come_v speedy_o hither_o and_o harken_v diligent_o to_o the_o read_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o not_o only_a when_o you_o come_v hither_o but_o also_o at_o home_n take_v the_o bible_n into_o your_o hand_n and_o by_o your_o diligent_a care_n reap_v the_o profit_n contain_v in_o it_o last_o in_o his_o homily_n upon_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o colossian_n he_o cry_v out_o hear_v etc._n i_o beseech_v you_o o_o all_o you_o secular_a man_n provide_v you_o bibles_n which_o be_v the_o medicine_n for_o the_o soul_n at_o least_o get_v the_o new_a testament_n now_o on_o the_o contrary_a let_v the_o new_a religion_n of_o rome_n speak_v first_o by_o her_o rhemish_a jesuit_n thus_o testament_n we_o may_v not_o think_v that_o the_o translate_v bibles_n into_o vulgar_a tongue_n be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o every_o husbandman_n artificer_n prentice_n boy_n girl_n mistress_n maid_n man_n that_o they_o be_v sing_v play_v allege_v of_o every_o tinker_n taverner_n rhymer_n minstrel_n the_o like_a word_n of_o scorn_n and_o disgrace_n be_v use_v by_o hosius_n and_o by_o eckius_fw-la and_o by_o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la l._n 2._o c._n 15._o the_o wise_a will_v not_o here_o regard_v say_v our_o rhemist_n what_o some_o wilful_a people_n do_v mutter_v etc._n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v make_v for_o all_o man_n etc._n etc._n and_o soon_o after_o they_o compare_v the_o scripture_n to_o fire_n water_n candle_n knife_n sword_n which_o be_v indeed_o needful_a etc._n etc._n but_o will_v mar_v all_o if_o they_o be_v at_o the_o guide_n of_o other_o then_o wise_a man_n all_o the_o heretic_n of_o this_o time_n say_v bellarmine_n agree_v that_o the_o scripture_n shall_v be_v permit_v to_o all_o and_o deliver_v in_o their_o own_o mother_n tongue_n but_o the_o catholic_a church_n forbid_v the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n by_o all_o etc._n without_o choice_n or_o the_o public_a read_n or_o sing_v of_o they_o in_o vulgar_a tongue_n as_o it_o be_v decree_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n ses._n 22_o c._n 8._o and_o can_v 9_o if_o you_o think_v say_v duraeus_n that_o christ_n have_v all_o christian_n to_o search_v the_o scripture_n you_o be_v in_o a_o gross_a error_n for_o how_o shall_v rude_a and_o ignorant_a man_n search_v the_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o he_o conclude_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o give_v to_o the_o common_a multitude_n of_o believer_n judge_n now_o what_o either_o we_o say_v or_o these_o papist_n condemn_v beside_o the_o ancient_a judgement_n of_o the_o father_n and_o if_o ever_o either_o calvin_n or_o luther_n have_v be_v more_o peremptory_a in_o this_o matter_n then_o saint_n chrysostome_n i_o vow_v to_o be_v a_o papist_n if_o we_o be_v not_o in_o this_o the_o old_a religion_n be_v not_o you_o we_o &c_n yet_o this_o one_o passage_n further_o and_o then_o no_o more_o lest_o i_o weary_a you_o our_o question_n be_v whether_o the_o scripture_n depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n or_o rather_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n hear_v first_o the_o ancient_a church_n with_o and_o for_o we_o the_o question_n be_v say_v saint_n austen_n betwixt_o we_o and_o the_o donatist_n where_o the_o church_n be_v what_o shall_v we_o do_v then_o shall_v we_o seek_v she_o in_o our_o own_o word_n or_o in_o the_o word_n of_o her_o head_n the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n i_o suppose_v we_o ought_v to_o seek_v she_o rather_o in_o his_o word_n which_o be_v the_o truth_n and_o know_v best_a his_o own_o body_n for_o the_o lord_n know_v who_o be_v he_o we_o will_v not_o have_v the_o church_n seek_v in_o our_o word_n and_o in_o the_o same_o book_n etc._n whether_o the_o donatist_n hold_n the_o church_n say_v the_o same_o father_n let_v they_o not_o show_v but_o by_o the_o canonical_a book_n of_o divine_a scripture_n for_o neither_o do_v we_o therefore_o say_v they_o shall_v believe_v we_o that_o we_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n because_o optatus_n or_o ambrose_n have_v commend_v this_o church_n unto_o we_o which_o we_o now_o hold_v or_o because_o it_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o the_o counsel_n of_o our_o fellow-teacher_n or_o because_o so_o great_a miracle_n be_v do_v in_o it_o it_o be_v not_o therefore_o manifest_v to_o be_v true_a and_o catholic_a but_o the_o lord_n jesus_n himself_o judge_v that_o his_o disciple_n shall_v rather_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o law_n and_o the_o prophet_n these_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o our_o cause_n these_o
be_v the_o foundation_n these_o be_v the_o confirmation_n and_o upon_o the_o psalm_n etc._n lest_o thou_o shall_v err_v say_v the_o same_o augustine_n in_o thy_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n lest_o any_o man_n shall_v say_v to_o thou_o this_o be_v christ_n which_o be_v not_o christ_n or_o this_o be_v the_o church_n which_o be_v not_o the_o church_n etc._n for_o many_o etc._n etc._n hear_v the_o voice_n of_o the_o shepherd_n himself_o which_o be_v clothe_v in_o flesh_n etc._n etc._n he_o show_v himself_o to_o thou_o handle_v he_o and_o see_v he_o show_v his_o church_n lest_o any_o man_n shall_v deceive_v thou_o under_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n yet_o chrysostome_n more_o direct_o thus_o he_o that_o will_v know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n whence_o may_v he_o know_v it_o in_o the_o similitude_n of_o so_o great_a confusion_n but_o only_o by_o the_o scripture_n now_o the_o work_n of_o miracle_n be_v altogether_o cease_v yea_o they_o be_v rather_o find_v to_o be_v fained_o wrought_v of_o they_o which_o be_v but_o false_a christian_n whence_o then_o shall_v he_o know_v it_o but_o only_o by_o the_o scripture_n the_o lord_n jesus_n therefore_o know_v what_o great_a confusion_n of_o thing_n will_v be_v in_o the_o last_o day_n therefore_o command_v that_o those_o which_o be_v christian_n and_o will_v receive_v confirmation_n of_o their_o true_a faith_n etc._n shall_v fly_v to_o nothing_o but_o to_o the_o scripture_n otherwise_o if_o they_o fly_v to_o any_o other_o help_n they_o shall_v be_v offend_v and_o perish_v not_o understand_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n this_o be_v the_o old_a faith_n now_o hear_v the_o new_a contradict_v it_o and_o us._n the_o scripture_n say_v eckius_fw-la a_o popish_a doctor_n be_v not_o authentical_a without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o the_o canonical_a writer_n be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n whereupon_o let_v it_o be_v object_v to_o a_o heretic_n that_o will_v strive_v against_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o church_n by_o what_o weapon_n he_o will_v fight_v against_o the_o church_n he_o will_v say_v by_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n of_o the_o four_o gospel_n and_o paul_n epistle_n 1._o let_v it_o be_v straight_o object_v to_o he_o how_o he_o know_v these_o to_o be_v canonical_a but_o by_o the_o church_n and_o a_o while_n after_o the_o scripture_n say_v he_o define_v in_o a_o council_n it_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o to_o we_o that_o you_o abstain_v from_o thing_n offer_v to_o idol_n and_o blood_n and_o strangle_v the_o church_n by_o her_o authority_n alter_v a_o thing_n so_o clear_o define_v and_o express_v for_o it_o use_v both_o strangle_v and_o blood_n behold_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n be_v above_o the_o scripture_n thus_o eckius_fw-la and_o beside_o cusanus_fw-la bellarmine_n say_v thus_o if_o we_o take_v away_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n and_o of_o the_o present_a council_n of_o trent_n all_o the_o decree_n of_o all_o other_o counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v call_v into_o doubt_n and_o in_o the_o same_o place_n a_o little_a after_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o ancient_a counsel_n and_o the_o certainty_n of_o all_o opinion_n depend_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n you_o have_v hear_v both_o speak_v say_v now_o with_o who_o be_v true_a antiquity_n and_o on_o god_n name_n detest_v the_o new_a of_o both_o it_o be_v as_o easy_a to_o bring_v the_o same_o if_o not_o great_a evidence_n for_o the_o perfection_n and_o all-sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n and_o so_o to_o deliver_v all_o the_o body_n of_o our_o religion_n by_o the_o tongue_n and_o pen_n of_o the_o father_n that_o either_o you_o must_v be_v force_v to_o hold_v they_o novelist_n with_o we_o or_o yourselves_o such_o against_o they_o 401._o how_o honest_a and_o ingenuous_a be_v that_o confession_n of_o your_o erasmus_n who_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o bishop_n and_o cardinal_n of_o mentz_n can_v say_v it_o be_v plain_o find_v that_o many_o thing_n in_o luther_n book_n be_v condemn_v for_o heretical_a which_o in_o the_o book_n of_o bernard_n and_o austen_n be_v read_v for_o holy_a and_o orthodox_a this_o be_v too_o much_o for_o a_o taste_n if_o your_o appetite_n stand_v to_o it_o i_o dare_v promise_v you_o full_a dish_n let_v i_o therefore_o appeal_v to_o you_o if_o light_n and_o darkness_n be_v more_o contrary_a than_o these_o point_n of_o your_o religion_n to_o true_a antiquity_n no_o no_o let_v your_o author_n gloze_n as_o they_o list_v popery_n be_v but_o a_o young_a faction_n corrupt_o raise_v out_o of_o ancient_a ground_n and_o if_o it_o have_v as_o we_o grant_v some_o ancient_a error_n falsehood_n can_v be_v better_v with_o age_n there_o be_v no_o prescription_n against_o god_n and_o truth_n what_o we_o can_v prove_v to_o be_v erroneous_a we_o need_v not_o prove_v new_a some_o hundreth_n of_o year_n be_v a_o idle_a plea_n against_o the_o ancient_a of_o day_n what_o can_v you_o plead_v yet_o more_o for_o your_o change_n their_o number_n perhaps_o and_o our_o handful_n you_o hear_v all_o the_o world_n be_v they_o scarce_o any_o corner_n we_o how_o can_v you_o but_o suspect_v a_o few_o these_o be_v but_o idle_a brag_n we_o dare_v and_o can_v share_v equal_o with_o they_o in_o christendom_n and_o if_o we_o can_v not_o this_o rule_n will_v teach_v you_o to_o advance_v turkism_n above_o christianity_n and_o paganism_n above_o that_o the_o world_n above_o the_o church_n hell_n above_o heaven_n if_o any_o proof_n can_v be_v draw_v from_o number_n he_o that_o know_v all_o say_v the_o best_a be_v few_o what_o then_o can_v stir_v you_o our_o division_n and_o their_o unity_n if_o this_o my_o follow_a labour_n do_v not_o make_v it_o good_a to_o all_o the_o world_n that_o their_o peace_n be_v less_o than_o we_o their_o dissension_n more_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o their_o own_o mouth_n be_v you_o they_o still_o and_o let_v i_o follow_v you_o 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