chiefest Bishops or Patriarks of the East were either Authours or their fautors This was the cause that often the Orthodoxall Bishops of Greece in defence of truth were forced to fly for succour to the Romaine as did Athanasius and Paulus the one Patriarke of Alexandria the other of Constantinople and others (h) Sozom. l. 1. c. 7. To end which dissentions by his Authority Supreme vnder God vpon Earth ouer the flock of Christ he hid procure that Councells might be called in Greece the discipline of the Church requiring that Councells meete examine the cause and punish offenders where the fault was committed Soe that the cause why those Councells were kept in Greece not in Rome was the Purity of the one neuer falling into Heresie and the infelicity of the other neuer to be without inuentours of such monsters 15. This sinceritie likewise of Doctrine as Ruffinus noteth (i) Ruffin in expositione Symboli is the cause that the Church of Rome did neuer add any word or syllable to the Creed but kept the same entyre without addition which saith he happened not in other Churches because other Churches hauing had heresies sprong vp within their owne bowells did add some wordes to the Creed to crosse and meet with such errours which the Romane neuer did nor had need to doe seeing no heresie had neuer beginning in it Thus Ruffinus wherefore seing the Roman Church caused those Councells to be held in Greece confirmed the same afterwards and their Creeds to be receaued through the whole Church who cā deny but we had those foundations of Faith more principally from the Roman then any other Church the Principall Sea from whence saith (k) l. 4. ep 8. S. Cyprian Priestly dignitie one great Pillar and Foundation of Christianity did flow Vnto which Tertullian (l) Praescr c. 31. Irenaeus (m) l. 3. c. 3. Optatus (n) l. 2. cōt Parmen Epiphanius (o) Haeres 27. S. Augustine (p) Epist 165. being vrged by Heretikes did fly as vnto the head deriving Scriptures Creeds and all other Ecclesiasticall traditions from them Wherefore I must thinke that many sick and sory feathers were in that Ministers head that caused you to call them rather Grecian then Roman Plumes though so light a word as Plumes applyed to so graue matters as Scriptures Creeds and Councells doth sauour of the leuity of your phrase 16. This leuity you shew in the prayses you giue to the Church no lesse then in the reproaches Thus you preach Who is he say (q) Lett. p. 67. you that saith not of the true Church with Augustine Non parua Ecclesiae auctoritas well doth her Modesty well doth her fidelitie deserue honorable esteeme she taketh not vpon her to controule the holy Scripture her Mother from whom she drew her first breath she openeth not her mouth till her mother hath deliuered her mynde she commeth not of her owne head with any sleeuelesse arrant Thus you discourse describing the Spouse of Christ and Mother of Christians as a mannerly young Mayd brought vp in Luthers schoole You demaund who is he that doth not say with S. Augustine Great is the authority of the Church And yet you your self are the Man who call that Authority of the Church which S. Augustine in that very sentence reuerenceth as great and venerable idle and sleeuelesse like the Butcher that called for his knife he had in his mouth These are S. Augustines wordes (r) De cura pro mortuis c. 1. We read in the Books of Machabees that Sacrifice was offered for the dead but if this were no where read in the old Scriptures yet ther is no small authoritie of the vniuersall Church which shineth in this custome Behold S. Augustine calleth Doctrines deliuered by the Church without expresse Scripture great shining which you reuile and contemne 17. Thus you contradict the saying of S. Augustine whilst you would seeme to applaud it yet is not this contradiction so witlesse as is your Assertion impious that Doctrines and Decrees of the Church not deliuered in Scriptures are sleeuelesse the perpetuall virginity of the B. Mother after her sacred birth of the Sonne of God you seeme so to beleeue that you would stop your eares against any that should dispute therof (ſ) Lett. p. 39. but where is this written in Scripture what is it but a perpetuall traditiō of Gods Church S. Augustine sayth (t) de Baptism cont Donatist l. 2. c. 7. that it cannot be clearly proued out of Scripture that Heritikes returning to the Church should not be rebaptized yet the Church hath forbidden the same Shall we tearme this prohibition sleeuelesse That these and these bookes be Canonicall and the other Apocriphall where it is taught in Scripture Now he doth not see that Scriptures are the chiefest points of our Faith contayning the fountaine and as it were principles of faith Doe but read your learned Authour Hierome Zanchius who will giue a newer tune then that your Minister piped vnto you That Authour famous in your Cōgregations teacheth (u) Tom. 4. l. 1. de lege Dei that diuers vnwritten traditions concerning doctrine and manners are in the Church which are not only profitable (x) Non solum vtiles Ecclesiae sed ferè necessariae saith he but in a manner necessary which haue their beginning from the holy Ghost which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the Authority of the Church which is a thing saith he very displeasing vnto God how then doe you preach that the Church neuer openeth her mouth till Mother Scripture haue deliuered her mind 18. I confesse that this your Authour goeth a step backward saying that these vnwriten traditions are not of equall authoritie with the written word (z) Paris authoritatis non sunt cum verbo in sacris literis reuelato but therin he doth cleerely contradict himselfe For the Canon of the Scripture being as he confesseth an vnwritten tradition how can any thing contayned in Scripture be more certaine then some vnwritten traditions are Can any man be more certaine of a truth proued out of Scripture then he is that his proofes are indeed Scripture One may see this doth imply in termes Wherefore great cause had your Doctour Field (a) Of the Church p. 238. to grant that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written word if they can proue any such vnwritten verities and his proofe is pregnant because not the writing giueth things their authoritie but the worth and credit of him that deliuereth them though by word and liuely voyce alone 19. Now put these two sayings of your two Doctours togeather and make an argument for traditions let Doctour Field giue the Maior vnwritten verities can they be proued are equall to the written word let Zanchius add the Minor but diuers vnwritten verities and traditions profitable and in a manner necessary for the Church both
of your impertinent and ridiculous Annotations these few may suffice to shew that you neuer leaue your margent white without notes but when your head is blank without matter Whence it is cleere that the cause why you did not censure the booke De Mirabilibus as the supposed issue of S. Augustine was not your loathnes to trouble your Margent with circumlocutions but either ignorance that indeed you thought that booke was his which I thinke probable or els fraude which made you vtter what you knew was false to deceaue your Reader which imputation you would haue laid vpon you rather then ignorance 10. But if one demaund of you why you did cite that booke for S. Augustines saying that it was his against your conscience and knowledg as you now confesse You answere in this manner (o) p. 29 As neere as I can remember say you I thus argued with my self If they graunt that S. Augustines penne did discard those bookes the matter wil be soone at an end if they denie that booke to be his then how will they excuse their Church that hath playd many such lewd prankes Or how will they answere antiquitie which distinguished these bookes Thus you argued with your selfe which doth argue that your false Ministers teach you to vse reseruations and equiuocations in your writings about matters of religion to deceaue your lesse-wary Readers You said in your Letter then that the booke de mirabilibus was determinatly S. Augustines which I proued apparently to be false Now you confesse that it is indeed false yea that you knew it was false euen when you wrot it but you had forsooth a reserued discourse that might make the same true to wit that that booke de mirabilibus is S. Austines or else the Church of Rome hath played manie false trickes or els how will they answere Antiquitie Is not this wicked frauduleÌ„t proceeding 11. To make the same dealing more apparent and sensible to you I will vse an example that may touch you neere Suppose I should write that a Protestant Knight in England hath children by a Black-more namely a Girle in the margent citing Syr Edw. Hoby that you proue it to be a lewd slaÌ„der accusing me of iniurious falshood against you My answere is like to yours Will any man think I fathered those children on Syr Edward Hoby indeed not knowing to whose charge I might lay them loth to trouble my margent with circumlocutions I noting the house where such a mother is found I knew Syr Edward was not the Father of those bratts but I thus argued with my selfe If he grant those children to be his the matter is at an end if he deny them then how will he answere his Protestant brethreÌ„ that accuse him of such lewd prankes Were this proceeding Syr Edward iustifiable to vtter slaunderous vntruthes which I know are false excusing them by mentall and reserued discourses I am sure you would detest this manner of dealing in me against your selfe which yet you approue in your selfe against the Church of Rome 12. Moreouer I add that your mentall reseruation which you now vtter is also false to witt that the booke de mirabilibus in our copies is placed in equall ranke with those other that goe vnder the name of S. Augustine and that it is still continued by vs amongst his goulden workes which you tearme a lewd pranke and say that none can read anie Fathers in our EditioÌ„s but he is in danger to catch a snake for an eele except he read Thomas Aquinas before Vidi Opera August à Theolog. Louaniens edita ann 1571. ex officina Plantiniâ—na This you speak which is as grosse an vntruth as the former For in out latter EditioÌ„s this book is not ranked amongst the whole bookes of S. Augustine but in an Appendix after them in a different letter with title of Anonymi cuiusdam the Treatise of a namelesse Authour In the elder Editions these bookes go printed amongst his in the same letter but with this Censure in the beginning and head therof nec stilo nec ingenio Augustinum sapit This Treatise doth neither sauour of the conceipt nor stile of S. Augustine Could the Church of Rome shew greater sinceritie then this 13. Doe you in your owne Bible ranke the Apochriphall bookes as you esteeme them Tobias Iudith Machabees with those of the diuine Scripture cheeke by ioule to vse your owne phrase both in elder and newest Editions of your Bible Do not Canonicall Scriptures excell the Apochriphall more then S. Augustine doth any other Father that liued after him Why should you tearme it a lewd pranke to coople togeather the second in the same volume which goeth for Augustines if it be a holy practise in your Church to ioyne together the first in your Bible that goeth vnder the name of Gods booke 14. Now in the custodie of these workes of Antiquitie the Church of Rome hath bene so Religious that you chaleng those Charters for your doctrine which you caÌ„not deny but haue byn for 1000. yeares at least in her only keeping If the bookes of the Ancient Fathers should be Pupills or Wards of your Church but for one age that you might vncontrolledly cut downe what trees please you not in their groundes we might afterwards haue as great difficultie to find a booke or sentence in their writings which we now plentifully alleadge for our doctrines pag. 40. as I should haue to find you IndiaÌ„ vapour if that be true as you say that it is long since flowen out of my sight yea which doth clerely iustifie the Roman Churches sinceritie the bastardlie boughes as you tearme them more then any true branches of S. Augustine make for your doctrine and now doth the booke de mirabilibus for your Hebrew Canon which is a manifest â—â—signe that these bookes were not fradulently by her ioyned with that Fathers to giue credit vnto them because they fauour her cause as you imagine 15. To conclude you are forced to grant as much as I desired to witt that the booke de mirabilibus ys not S. Augustines as you cited it but that it is altogeather impertinent to proue your intent that the Machabees are not Canonicall in his iudgment You (p) pag. 31. bragg that you haue quit your hands of the first falshood which is so true that whereas I accused you of ignorance and not of falshood not to seeme to haue writteÌ„ in ignorance you haue vttered foure falshoods First that you did not cite the sentence out of the booke de mirabilibus for S. Augustines the contrarie whereof is extant vnder your owne hand in your letter which you wish might be ingrauen in marble (q) p. 62. The second that you did not note the Authour of that booke was doubtfull out of respect to your margent fearing to trouble the same with a learned annotation which you lode euery where with all manner of impertinent stuffe Thirdly you vse
take to your self the Nody you layd on our expositions you seeme in a manner to graunt all to witt that the speach of Christ was indeed senselesse wherein you would fayne haue Maldonate ioyne with you (k) Let. p. 38. you cite him vpon a sentence of Christ saying in this sort Haec oratio hominibus absurda videtur qui non intelligunt Maldonatus sup Matth. 19.14 this speach seemeth absurd to those that vnderstand it not why then say you should this prouerbiall amplification sound soe vncouthly in your eares you would be loath I should serue you with a Non intelligis vnder Maldonates seale But Sir I must by your leaue serue you with Non inuenis vnder the seale of truth Do you consider whether you may not serue your Minister out of whose Note-bookes you copy these falshoods with a Mentiris Maldonats true words vpon the sentence of Christ (l) Matth. 29.24 that it is easer for a camell to passe through a needells eye then a rich man to enter in to the kingdome of heauen are these Absurditas saith he vt videbatur aut potiùs admirabilitas huius sententiae in causa fuit vt quidam Cameli nomine nauticum funem quo Anchorae alligantur intelligerent The absurdity as it seemeth or rather the admirabilytie of this doctrine caused some interprete Camelum a Cable rope by which shippes ryde at Anker Which wordes of Maldonatus make not for you but rather against you We deny not but the doctrine of Christ and his speach may seeme absurd to carnall men by occasion of the height and admirability of his doctrine which the capacity of humayne vnderstanding reacheth not vnto as Maldonatus saith but that the speach and wordes of diuine wisdome should indeed be absurd for want of sense or mystery conteyned in them that he should expresse a truth in a disiuÌ„ctiue speach one clause whereof is senseles which no wise and graue man vseth to doe this absurditie I say and superfluitie of speach we take it a great blasphemy in you to suspect in the doctrine of Christ 25. Hence is answered the Question you make (m) p. 27. It was an old prouerb say you when I went to schoole Veritas non quaerit angulos How commeth it to passe that S. (n) c. 3 29. Markes exposition to wit that the synne against the holy ghost shall neuer be remitted is such a mote in your eyes that you are gauled to the quick that he should decide the question To this I reply with another question how commeth it to passe that the text of S. Matthew being larger in wordes then that of S. Marke is such a beame in your eye that you would haue the same broken in peeces till it be no greater then S. Markes mote The reason is I feare because the partition of Eternity into this world and of the world to come to be two places for remission of synnes is a payre of spectacles through which you must needs see Purgatory except you willfully shut your eyes Is not this quaerere angulos to seeke corners to leaue the open field of S. Matthewes larger sentence seeking a Commentary in S. Marke more retyred and concise speach Seeing S. Matthew is more diffuse in wordes we do him wrong denying them a more copious sense when they may beare it S. Matthew deuideth what S. Marke confoundeth in one the two partes of eternity which in S. Matthew are manifest in S. Mark are hidden how then can S. Marke be thought an expositor of S. Matthew who fouldeth vp what the other layeth open 26. I hope Syr you perceaue this Catholike exposition of Christs wordes or deduction of Purgatorie from them is in it self most sutable with the wisdome of so graue an Author specially backed with the authoritie of so many worthy Fathers expounding them with vs against your mens fancie If S. Augustine changed (o) l. 6 cont Iul. c. 11. vel 23. l. 1. retract c. 23. his exposition of a passage of S. Paul which he had constantly taught before because he perceiued the same was against S. Hilary Gregory Sanctos notosque Doctores Ambrose and other holy and knowne Doctors of the Church Melioribus saith that euer-admired doctor intelligentioribus cessi I yeilded vnto those that were better and more intelligent then my selfe How dare you so peremptorily presume vpon your new deuised exposition contradicted by many not warranted by any ancient Father How did you not feare to lay vpon an exposition receaued generally for many ages in the Church the title of Nody yea to say that the same is backed by noe exemplar proofe besides Hobgoblins (p) let p. 42. 27. What S. Augustine said vnto Iulian the Pelagian who branded the doctrine of original sinne with the title of a Manichean fable may be retorted vpon you that disgrace Purgatory with the style of Satanicall figment Hauing brought six or seauen Fathers for that point of Catholike doctrine he concludeth in this sort saying vnto him (q) l. 1. con Iulia. c. 2. vel 4. finding you in your writings non antelucano conuiuio temulentum sed insano conuitio turbulentum not so much tipled with wine taken next your hart as distempered with senslesse rayling against truth I haue not brought you into Zenocrates schoole where drunken Polemo was made sober but haue summoned you vnto the quiet and venerable assembly of holy Fathers (r) Sanctorum PatruÌ„ pacificum honorandumque consessum Let not my labour be lost behould them that looke on you who sweetly and gently looke on you what sonne are we Maniches are we Hobgoblings or Nodies What can you answere What eies will you lift vp against them You will say you did accuse none of them by name of this errour But what will you do when they shall answere we had rather your rayling teeth should teare our name then our fayth by the merit wherof of our names are written in heauen What sillogismes will you frame What will Aristotles logicke avayle you wherein you would faine shew your selfe skilfull that you may seeme an artificiall disputer against vs Will you dare to drawe your blade of brasse the leaden poyniards of your arguments (Å¿) TuoruÌ„ argumentorum vitrea acies vel plumbei pugiones in their presence What weapons will not tremble and sheuering for feare fall out of your hands (t) Quae abs te arma non fugient nudumque destitueÌ„t dauntted with the maiestie of soe graue a Senate Thus S. Augustine THE FOVRTH CHAPTER THE CHVRCHES PERPETVALL TRADITION to pray for Saints in Purgatory in the next life VVHERE your iâ—sts against the Churches Authorities and Scriptures against this Tradition are answered THAT short and pithy Treatise which you sought to disgrace with froathy lynes alleadged (a) l. 1. p. 1. c. 1. §. 4. for Purgatorie the custome of the Church to pray for the dead and their reliefe in the holy Sacrifice
about faith manners may be proued What doth follow but that some vnwritten verities and traditions are found which haue equall authoritie with diuine Scripture Is not this argument in good forme Are not the premisses thereof certaine which euen our enemies doe grant May traditions be termed sleeuelesse for which your owne Taylors or Doctours make such glorious winges that therby they fly vp to the throne of diuine Truth 20. But I will not bestow on your suggesting Minister a sleeueles garment but rather grant him a Coate with foure sleeues for his Metaphore by which he maketh the Church Scriptures daughter many Churches as S. Irenaeus writeth (b) l. 3. c. 4. in his time had neuer read any word of Scripture yet did they flourish by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their hartes Was the Scripture the Mother of these Churches I see not which way you will draw their pedigree from the Scripture except in your next writings you make Scripture Grandmother who hath bin yet scarse 3. yeares a Mother The Church of the old Testament was some thousand yeares (c) 2000 yeares from Adam vnto Moyses before Scripture the Church of the New did flourish many yeares before any Ghospell was written who euer saw or heard a daughter borne before the mother A Sonne before the mother I haue heard of yet he as Man according to which Nature he was her Sonne was not before her So that the Church Child of Scripture a daughter before the Mother is the Pallas of your braine which some Vulcans sharp hatchet hath holpen you to be deliuered of And thus much of your no lesse ridiculous then impious iestes against the authority of the Church 21. After your light skirmish with Scoffes followeth a graue battery of the Churches custome to pray for soules in Purgatory with the Canō of Scriptures (d) Lett. a pag. 80. vsque ad 93. by which you will proue her doctrine in this point to be a Satanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God euacuating the Crosse of Christ The places by you alleadged are many but either so triuiall and knowen togeather with the Catholikes answeres or else so ridiculously applied wrung wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head and make him scratch where it doth not itch for want of an answere To giue some few examples What say you (e) pag. 86 shall not Hel gates preuaile against vs and shall Purgatoryes muddy wall hedg vs in Hath the soule of Christ gon downe into the nethermost Hell yet made no passage through the suburbes of Hell Hath he bound the strong Man that he should not harme vs and will he now torment vs himselfe or set we know not whō to do it Thus you Who will not wonder that Purgatoryes wals fall not to the ground with the storme of these your windy interogations shall I make the Logicall Analysis of your Rhetoricall Arguments They be three Ethymens I think The first the gates of hell shall not prauaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second the soule of Christ went down to the nethermost Hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong Man and took his fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish away 22. I think Aristotle would be grauelled in these argumēts to find the Mediū to ioyne your extremes togeather For what force hath Christs binding the strong Man that he may not harme his children to proue that God may not chastize them for their sins either by himselfe or another in this world or in the next as he pleaseth when they haue don amisse and committed lesser offences that deserue his lighter displeasure When you say that Hell gates shall not preuaile against vs it is hard to ghesse who those your vsses are Perhaps you meane the Elect Predestinate among whom you number your selfe Let it be so Can you deny but many of your Predestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Goales what shall not Hell-gate preuayle against them and shall the wall of a prison mue them vp hath the soule of Christ gon downe into the nethermost Hell and made no passage through New-gates Limbo where sometimes your elect are kept Hath he bound the strong man that he should not harme and shall now a hangman put thē to death You perceaue I hope the vanity of your inferences 23. Let vs heare you preach againe and build a ladder for your elect to passe without Purgatory into Heauen They that dy in the faith say you (f) p. 100 haue peace towardes God they that haue peace towards God are iustified by Christ they that are iustified by Christ are free from the Law and being free from the Law quis accusabit who shall lay any thing to their charge Thus you dispute Where I could lay both folly and falshood to your charge but seing your Protestāt faith freeth you from the Law both of Reason consciēce quis accusabit who dareth accuse you though you write neither wise nor true word I could cast your Elect into Hell from the first step of your ladder For they that dy in the faith haue not peace towards God except their faith be ioyned with good workes S. Iohn (g) Apoc. 14. giuing the reason why the Saintes rest after life saith Opera enim illorum sequuntur illos which you English for their works follow them euen at the heeles But your Protestant faith is so light footed or light headed rather to belieue you shal be saued your charity so heauy heeled to do the good works by which men must be saued that an eternity of torments may passe before your workes ouertake your faith 24. I might also fling them downe from the highest step of all where you say they are free from the Law if you vnderstand it in Luthers sense (h) Tom. 1. Ep. Lat. ep 3◠ad Philippū that though they commit whoredomes or murthers a thousand tymes aday they need not care the bloud of Christ freeth them from the lawe doth not this doctrine togeather with the Authour deserue to be flung into the lowest Hell But if you vnderstand freedome from the law in the Catholick sense that the spirit of Christ maketh that yoke easie and the burden light that in the spirit of loue we may keep the law with great ease as S. Iohn saith (i) 1. Ioan. 5. his commandemcnts are not hard I dare say your Protestants faith hath litle of that spirit that dilateth the heart to runne the way of Gods precepts (k) Psalm 118. that it will neuer be able to get vp this ladder And let thē be indeed iust let them be Saints that keepe the law you obiect that against them that doth cleerely proue a Purgatorie for them in the next life Yea say you but they haue some drosse to
to eternize my memory I should not match my selfe with cōtēptible aduersarys by whose ouerthrow profit that eternall may accrew vnto them small praise redound to my selfe by the conquest of scoulding and feminine writers (e) Nullum aut memorabile nomen Foeminea in paena est 29. That the Ladies liberall purse-promises hired me to write is so base a surmise and doth so smell of the trencher that if I may without your displeasure I will rather thinke it the suggestion of some hungrie minister or mercinarie Lecturer then the conceipt of a Knight If I finde no greater stoppe in my race to heauen then the gathering vpp of goulden-apples I shall not need much to feare the loosing of the goale I am sure if you know me well you would be loth the mony you lately made of your woods should haue no more watchfull custody then my thoughts would affoard euen vnto greater summes which education hath made ouer proud to stoope to such base cares Manie that haue more conuersed with me then you haue done will thinke some of your Ministers more skilfull in taking other mens purses then I am in keeping my owne I am content with the inexhaust treasure of his Prouidence who feedeth the Birds of the ayre and clotheth the Lillies of the fielde which doth assure me I shall not want when perhaps your (f) pag. 65. competent patrimonie may be wasted 30. The Lady you glance at as giuing me first encouragement (g) p. 22. to write I neuer saw her nor receiued message from her nor was a pennie richer by her whilst she liued or poorer by her death who died in the Catholike faith as I expected as I haue heard a Knight though Protestāt yet of better credit then your selfe that was present with her not many houres before her death auouch though your Snarling Cerberus seemeth to barke at her ghost as if without Purgatorie it had gone to your Protestāt heauen But the short is your conscience is so tender as you blot out your owne coniectures both against the quick and dead without any care of truth or feare of sinne THE SECOND CHAPTER THAT THE BOOKES OF THE MACHABEES WHERIN Is taught our Catholike doctrine concerning Purgatory is Canonicall Scripture against the Falshood both of the Letter and Counter-snarle NOvv hauing stopped the mouth of your rayling Cerberus I may the more boldly suruey your Hell or Letter against Purgatory to feare me from the discouery of the folly and falshood wherof your Counter-snarle was written You bragge (a) pag. 27. that amongst all you wrote in an hundreth and fourteene pages I haue only a spite at one leafe which lyes in the heart of the letter Lyes in the hart Against what should truth the friēd of truth beare greater hatred specialy those lyes being grosse and inexcusable corruptions of the most learned of the auncient Fathers cōcerning a point of highest importance to wit the Canonicall Authority of the booke of Machabees where Purgatory and other pointes of Catholyke doctrine which you peremptorily deny are clearely proued If lying killeth the soule as the Holy-Ghost saith (b) Sap. 1. Os quod mentitur occidit animam your leaues that haue lyes in their heart what are they but a dead letter 2. Wherefore I will begin the examination of your letter with that leafe you tearme the hart therof Which I proued in my Treatise most false and rotten not conteyning so much as one true lyne whereof I wrote in this sort (c) Ouerthrow p. 133. And here by occasion of S. Augustine and the booke of Machabees I must giue M. Crashaw warning that in proofe of his assertion he bring not such testimonies as are the three Syr Edward Hoby alledgeth out of S. Augustine to proue that he reiected the Machabees ignorantly and impudently corrupted not by Syr Edward himselfe I cannot thinke so dishonorably of men of his calling but by his Trencher-school-maister or some mercinarie lecturer perchance euen by M. Crashaw himselfe who is great in the bookes of this credulous Knight whome they make flye hoodwinkd to catch flyes which if I pull off that he may see how they abuse him I hope he will take it in good part 3. These were my words then which shew a double falshood of your Snarler first it is false that I absolutly accused M. Crashaw as the Authour of those corruptiōs which yet you auouch (d) pag. 56. insteed of perhaps by M. Crashaw making me say yea by M. Crashaw himself for though I did as I might specially suspect him whose desire to deceaue was well knowne vnto me yet I neither did nor durst so peremptorily affirme knowing that manie others besides him may vse that coolening art Secondly you say that I tearmed you notorious falsificatour (e) pag. 32. which was farre from my thoughts and further from my pen. wherwith I did fence your head from that blow The truth is your vnsauourie Letter is so sweet to your tast◠distempered with selfe-conceipt that out of feare some ministers should lurch you you greedily put euerie sillable therof into your owne mouth though it be dressed in the sower sawce of manifest falshood rather will you be thought a false corrupter of soe graue a Father then not the true father of that false brat Had it bene any discredit to haue confessed those quotations were by some minister suggested vnto you Your valiant Writer and Deane D. Morton was he not driuen by his aduersarie to acknowledg that he had taken some corrupted testimonies of our Authours Vide his paramble to a further Encounter vpon the credit of Io. Stocke or R. C Why should that taking authoritys in grosse be thought a blemish in a Knight which was esteemed tolerable yea laudable in a Doctour Or why should you snarle at me for deuising in your defence such an honorable excuse that had you stood vnto it you might both haue layd your falshoods vpon another as that Doctour did and yet haue bene ranked as he is amongst your Protestāts famous authours the marke your ambitious penne aymed at 4. Let it be whose it please a Ministers or a Minstrells Child in the defence therof you vtter so manie new fooleries and falshoods that I make no doubt but the Reader of this my letter if those corruptions were yours will confesse that you haue greater strength of malice to beget falshood then store of witt to mantaine it You say (f) p. 27. that like a Spider-catcher I trauaise my ground with a goodly florish as if I meant with the weake Goddesses to bind Iupiter but if I bring not some Briareus to assist me it will not be long before I be out of breath This is so mystily spoken as I vnderstand it not I dare not say it is an high mysterie or a soaring Birde least you flout me with well flowen Buzzard (g) p. 21. If by Iupiter you meane your selfe and by
for killing himselfe but denies it expressely l. 2. cont Epist Gaud. c. 31. saying that the Scripture did report what had bene done not praise his death as a thing that should haue bene done Can any corruptioÌ„ said I be greater then this I would wish Syr Edward for his creditts sake to lay the matter of his paÌ„phlet on the Minister that was the true Father therof only chaleÌ„ging to himselfe the stile and phrase which may well beseeme a Knight and is to rich goulden to cloth the foule bratt of a Ministers braine 20 Thus I wrote in answere whereof first you say I shew my selfe a kind aduersarie by quoting the place of S. Augustine in my margent and adding the wordes which were wanting in your quotation the latin sentence for want thereof lame without sense I will not requite him say you with the Prouerbe That profered seruice meritts small thankes but in lieu of his labour I will more fullie aduertise him of my scope My purpose was from a ground out of S. Augustine to proue that the booke of Machabees is not Canonicall my Maior is S. Augustines as well knowne as the begger knows his dish that in holy Scripture there is no precept or permission to make away with our selues but Razias mentioned in the Machabees is commended for a fact of this kind Ergo those bookes are not Canonicall This syllogisme I had a desire to contract Thankes be to God My treatise hath wrought a miracle making your contracted syllogisme stretch out his sinewes and walke on both legges Now your birde spreads abroad her winges which before were so couched vnder S. Augustine that a man might haue sworne on your Booke that the whole argument both Maior and Minor had bene his I dare say Aristotle himselfe with whome you saie you are well acquainted (a) pag. 10. would not haue perceiued a sylogisme in your quotatioÌ„ but haue thought one particle thereof as well as the other S. Austines 21. But haue not yor Ministers deuised soÌ„e excuse or other of this yor cuÌ„ning coÌ„tracting of syllogismes to deceiue the simple yes a very goodly one which you vtter in thes words Artis est arteÌ„ dissimulare It is a poiÌ„t of art to disseÌ„ble art (b) p. 42. He is a simple painter that is driueÌ„ to write Goose or Woodcock ouerhead that people may know what feature he hath drawne vnderneath Neither do RhetoriciaÌ„s vse to distinguish their propositioÌ„s by name leauing worke for the Logicall Analysis to set euerie part in their proper place Thus you Lord what tricks Diuells and their foulers haue to hide their art What mistes doe they cast on their netts to catch Woodcocks How do they impe their sory feathers into the Fathers-Eagle winges Sell their owne greene goslings for white and hoary swannes when their falshood is discouered they tell vs very grauely that they must not write ouer head Goose or Woodcock that people may know the feature they haue drawne vnderneath And they haue reason For should people perceiue the featour of their writings soone would a Christian stomack loath them 22. Plaine dealing Syr Edward might best haue suted with your pen who professe your selfe the Ladies Writer (c) pag. 65. hoping that the report of the worthines of the Author might happily induce those rare creatures to the reading of your lines But how caÌ„ they that haue not studied Logick make a Logicall Resolution of your Rhetoricall syllogismes How shall they that haue not read nor perchanee can read S. Augustine know which wordes are yours which his setting euery thing in his proper place which a learned man may easely do by placing the Maior that Scripture doth neuer commaund nor commend killing ones selfe an Eagle worthy saying in S. Augustines workes where indeed it is found but the minor that Razias is praysed in the Machabees for killing himselfe (d) l. 1. de Ciuitat c. 20. a Goose or Woodcoke in your braine whence and not out of this Fathers booke it came into your Letter 23. Another excuse you haue which you rather insinuate then stand vpon perhaps ashamed to goe still a begging to your Printer to maintaine the credit of your poore brat You will not haue your words to be vt Razis seipsuÌ„ occideÌ„s laudatur as he printed I cited theÌ„ but At Razias seipsuÌ„ occideÌ„s laudatur (e) Counters p 43. so you still repeat theÌ„ signifying that the Printer changed At the note of a syllogisticall subsuÌ„ption into Vt And truely gentle Reader that mayst happily looke into his letter there is so little differeÌ„ce betwixt Vt and At as my hart did much incline to pardon this errour of the Printer But when looking into the English redition (f) Lett. p. 61. I found As Razis insteed of but Razias and that he made As the head of the name wherof it is the last part remembring also that he had giueÌ„ me (g) Counters p. â—8 that last syllable of Razias against law not first cutting off the intaile therof on Syr Edw. bookes These things considered I say I thought my selfe bound in iustice to returne the As to the right place and entaile the last syllable of Razias on the Printer to hould it in Capite of Syr Edward Hoby and his bookes for euer Shall he hereafter presume to print anie of the Knights bookes who still returnes his falshoods vpon his Printer without taking paines to peruse the Authours he citeth he shall haue for his wages the whole word of Lazyas So that now I may call the world to witnesse I am not in his Printers debt for any syllable or letter of Razias except the R. which being a snarling letter he cannot expect from me that saith I write a lisping language 24. Now Syr Edward let vs retourne to you who perceiuing the vanity of this first excuse you deuise another which yet in the end will proue lesse to your credit You say your Assumption also to wit that Razias is praysed in the Machabees for killing himself which I auerred was not S. Augustines is also the the very sentence of that Father though not in that place where your proposition is found yet in another which not to be tedious forsooth to your Reader with long quotations you then omitted in (h) p. 42. your letter Yf you now pay vs in currant mony we will forgiue you the interest of so long forbearance if you cannot as I am sure you will neuer be able to doe it your vanitie is admirable who out of feare to be thought ignorant vndertake to shew thinges that are not 25. You leaue S. Augustine loath you are to make him at odds with himselfe (k) p. 43. you runne vnto Lyra you seeke by that instrument to make S. Augustines doctrine seeme to iarre with it selfe Lyra say you vpon the 24. Chapter of the second of Machabees doth deliuer two cases wherein the Iewes hould it not
only lawfull but also meritorious for a man to kill himselfe First ne subditus fieret peccatoribus Secondly ne in contemptum Dei Caeli eius vita in ludibrio traheretur He concludes Some thinke S. Augustines saying which here followeth in the glosse is thus to be vnderstood Thus writ you not very sincerely relating Lira's doctrine but because it is not to the purpose I omit to discouer you At the naming of S. Augustines saying dreaming that it must needs be your Goose or Woodcock your teeth water to haue it in your mouth O say you that I could meet with the saying of Augustine that I omitted to cite doth Lira say it followeth here in the glosse then will I presume so farre vpon your patience as to write it out Thus you tune your instrument before you play Take heed Sir you abuse not those worthy Gentlemens patience whom you inuite to be your hearers after all these preambles if you sound at last the harsh Hebrew harp of Lyra for the sweet latin Lute of S. Augustine you will giue them iust cause to laugh at your folly 26. The saying you cite for S. Augustines out of Lyra (l) in 2. Mach. c. 14. is this Vnde scriptura huius libri quae recepta est ab Ecclesia ad legendum pro informatione morum non videtur sic Raziam arguere sed commendare de suiipsius interfectione si autem praedicta non sufficiant ad eius excusationem dici potest quòd hoc fecit per specialem instinctum Spiritus sancti Whereupon the Scripture of this book which is receaued by the Church to be read for information of manners doth not seeme here to reproue Razias but rather to commend him for killing of himself and if the aforesaid excuse do not suffice it may be said he did that fact by speciall instinct of the holy Ghost Thus you write calling me Sophister and dizzi-braynd Ismaelite for saying that it was far from S. Augustines grauity to read the Machabees with so little sobriety as to think that Razias was praised for killing himself yet say you whether S. Augustine was of this mind or no let it lye vpon Lyra's report 27. Noe Syr this false report will lye vpon your selfe except you will confesse the truth that some Minister suggested this lye vnto you to disgrace S. Augustine you haue couched such falshood and follie togeather that I know not which I should first and most accuse But with your patience I will touch them both but your folly first For if this be S. Augustines sentence who doth not see that your argument to proue the Machabees not to be Scripture is not worth a rush For if Canonicall Scripture giue leaue to a man to kill himselfe by the especiall commaund and instinct of the holy Ghost if Razias killed himselfe by such a speciall precept what did he against Canonicall Scripture Why should not the booke of the Machabees be sacred though they praise Razias for this fact as well as the booke of Iudges where Sampson is praised who did the like Spiritus latenter hoc iusserat sayth S. Augustine (m) l. 1. de Ciuit. c. 21. qui per eum miracula faciebat The spirit that did Miracles by Sampson secretlie commaunded him to kill himselfe Let vs put your sillogisme into forme as you desire this it is Noe Canonicall booke doth cōmaund or praise killing ones selfe without speciall instinct of the holy Ghost But Razias killed himself by that speciall instinct and for this respect is praised in the booke of Machabees ergo the booke of Machabees is not Canonicall Scripture I dare say you need not write Goose or Woodcock ouer the head of this argumēt euery one wil perceaue the feature you haue drawne though vnderneath you say nothing 28. This is your ignorance but now your Ministers falshood is yet more notorious admirable for you skip ouer the true sentence of S. Augustine which Lyra citeth which is also cited in the Glosse indeed found in his workes and you bring Lira's owne words and illations which stand many lines after for the verie saying of this Father Thus Lyra writeth in that place Some say that the saying of S. Augustine which is found in the Glosse is thus to be vnderstood Doe you long Syr Edward for S Augustines saying Harken vnto Lyra which doth sound it (n) August l. 1. de ciuit c. 21. His exceptis quae lex generaliter iusta ipse fons iustitiae Deus specialiter iubet occidi quisquis hominum vel seipsū vel quemlibet alium occiderit homicidij crimine innectitur Those excepted whom iust lawes in generall or God the fountaine of iustice doth specially commaund to be killed what man soeuer doth make away with himself or any other is guiltie of the crime of murther This is S Augustines saying which you may finde also verbatim in the Glosse in that very page And this saying some did vnderstand that when one killeth himselfe to the end that he may not be drawne by torments to an Idolatrous religion or not be mocked to skorne in contempt of his God that he sinneth not because Iustice in such cases did allow of it 29. Which interpretation is both false and against the minde of S. Augustine who doth often teach and largly proue against the Circumcellians that in such cases killing ones selfe is vnlawfull (o) Quicūque hoc in seipsis perpetrauerūt animi magnitudine fortasse mirandi non sapientiae sanitate laudandi sunt l. 1. de Ciuit. c. 22. that Razias was not cōmēdable for that fact which the Scripture did report not praise Looke into the Glosse vpon that place which is taken out of S. Augustine this peece whereof Lyra citeth you shall not find so much as a word in defence of Razias How can this corruption be excused from witting falshood to passe ouer S. Augustines saying so obuious that lay in the way Was he not a nimble foxe (p) Illa leui velox superabat deuia cursu sūmaque transibat positarum lina plagarum that could fetch such a leape ouer a marble piller into a long peece of ground But to whose charge shall I lay it Your Printer is all readie loaden your Minister I must not meddle with if I touch your Person I shall heare you rage (q) pag. 2. that like a shrewish distracted male-content I scrach kicke spurne hale teare men noble by discent eminent in places profound in iudgment skilfull in tongues famous for learning vertue and experience in trauailes by which periphrases you seeme to discribe your selfe What shall I doe but follow an ancient custome which was to beat the Minstrell when the Cooke did amisse (r) Tibicen vapulat You compare your selfe to (ſ) pag. 61. Gracchus who came not at any time say you to make an Oration without a Minstrell who by the sound of his Pipe did set him a right
and iust Key Wherefore let your Minstrell whosoeuer he was that piped you this Key to sing and play S. Augustines doctrine vpon Lyra's ditties let him haue the reward your ridiculous excuse doth deserue to be thought Asinus ad Lyram 30. And truely this Father doth so often cleerly and peremptorily auouch the Charter of the Machabees which confirmeth Purgatory to be sacred that I wonder any man that had read his workes as you would seeme to haue done could vndertake to proue the contrary which attempt would haue no other issue then you haue brought yours vnto Shame and Contempt When he makes the Catalogue of Canonicall bookes (t) l. 2. de Doctrin Christian c. 8. doth he not ranke these with the rest That no man can thinke them by his list lesse Canonicall then the other did not this Father subscribe to the Councell of Carthage where those bookes were canonized as euen M. Crashaw doth graunt (v) Serm. p. 80. with whome I might ioyne Doctor Field Reynolds Perkins and many other Protestants (x) See the Protest Apolog. tract 1. sect 10. subdiuis 11. who yield vnto these bookes the warrāt of the Councell for their Sacred authority 31. I can but pittie you who write your learned lynes with Ministers notes before you whose lyes when they are once in your bookes you will be angrie they be not thought yours such is your assertion (z) Lett. pag. 63. opposit to your best Authors that the Councell of Carthage did not admit the Machabees into the Canon in proofe whereof you say that our owne Canus doth confesse that had they beene so ratified it had bene neyther for Gregory nor for any other to haue afterwards doubted of them Shall I tell you the plaine truth This is not the testimonie of Canus that learned Diuine but of Canis your Snarling Curre Canus hath in that place two sayings so mainely opposite to both yours as no Logitian can deuise more perfect contradiction by the rules of Art 32. First he saith expresly (a) l. 2. de loc Theol c. 9. hanc nostram conclusionem docet Concilium tertium Carthaginense This Conclusion that the Machabees are Canonicall is taught by the third Councell of Carthage which saith he though but a Prouinciall Councell was confirmed by Leo the fourth and by the Councell of Trullum This is contradictorie to your first assertion that the Councell did not admit those bookes and against your other that had they admitted them our Gregory might not haue doubted of their Authority in that very place and paragraph you cite he sayth b Id modò in dubium vocare non licet quod D. Gregorio Eusebio reliquis licuit aliquando dubitare It was lawfull for Gregorie Eusebius and others to doubt therof that being but a Prouinciall Councell but now we may not doubt therof after a Generall indubitate definition of the Church Can East be more opposite to West light vnto darknes then the sayings of Canus found in his booke vnto those you report as his Do you thinke to win creditt by your Cur that gredily licks vp all manner of foule and false stuffe from Ministers trenchers And whereas your Snarler saith (c) pag. 36. that S. Augustine granting the Iewes did not admit the Machabees held it small reason for after-Ages to intertaine them in highest esteeme I wonder if that be true you say that you can cite S. Augustine without a Prompter that you had not in promptu at your fingers end the known saying of that Father wherwith he knockes this puppie on the head not the Iewes but Church of Christ saith he libros Machabaeorum pro Canonicis habet (d) l. 18. de Ciuit. c. 36. doth intertaine the Machabees for Canonicall bookes which is the highest esteeme any writings can haue 33. The same doth S. Augustine teach in the testimony by you cited in his bookes against the Epistle of Gaudentius (e) l. 1. c. 31. which I said in my Treatise made against you His wordes are these The Iewes do not admit the booke of Machabees as they do the Law Prophetts and the Psalmes yet is it profitablie intertayned by the Church if it be read and heard soberlie These wordes sayd (f) Ouerth pag. 135. I signifie that the Christian Church admitteth these bookes as Canonicall euen as the Lawe and Prophets were Canonicall with the Iewes And though this my inference doth so displease you that you say no sober setled braine will stumble vpon such a sense (g) pag. 35. yet truly I see no reason why any man should thinke you were sober that stumble vpon such a Censure For by that testimony it appeareth that the Christians gaue that Authority to those bookes which the Iewes did not grant vnto them that the Church did set them vp in the throne from which the Synagogue had kept them which was the Imperiall throne of Sacred Authority otherwise S. Augustines opposition the Iewes did not but the Church doth were vaine For the Iewes did admit the Machabees into the number of Hagiographicall bookes which were read for edification of the People So that if the Christian Church doth admit them into higher Authorities then the Iewes that must needes be the highest of all seeing euen the Iewes did place them in the degree next the highest 34. You rage saying (h) pag. 35. that I infer S. Augustine to speake against his mynde who neuer meant that Canonicall Scripture is receaued with a Si which is necessarie to be acknowledged though it fall out by default to be Sapor mortis ad mortem But neither did I nor S. Augustine say that the bookes are receiued with a Si but that the bookes receaued are profitable to them that read them with a Si. The bookes saith he are receaued profitably if soberlie they be read So that the receauing of the bookes is absolute but the books absolutely receaued do not profit the Readers without a Si sobriè except they be read with sobrietie Had you read S. Augustines wordes with S. Augustines Si you would not so grossely haue missed the finger of his and my meaning Are not thinges most diuine and heauenlie taken without a Si very dangerous and hurtfull The most sacred Sacrament of the Altar the fountaine of grace doth not benefite the soule without a Si dignè except it be worthilie taken which wanting it is Sapor Mortis ad Mortem 35. And if when a man is vnworthie of that Celestiall food the Church may keep the same from him why may she not also keep the Scriptures translated into vulgar tongues from People whome she doth prudently thinke will not make benefit thereof Nor haue stomack to digest so strong and solid meat except it be first masticated by the Preachers mouth Why may she not examine their sufficiencie for the one as she doth their worthines for the other yet you say (i) pag. 35. that S. Augustine neuer dreamed of
this world is forgiuē in the world to come that they may not be afflicted with eternall torments Thus he Now is S. Augustine doubtfull either of Purgatorie or of the exposition of this place for pardon in the next world Hath this Doctour in his vnfoulding the words of Christ turned vp Nody Or rather your Minister that dealt your Cardes vsing foure false and deceiptfull trickes concerning this testimony of Viues may he not be thought to haue turned vp for you all the Nodies and Knaues in the bunch 8. But this your gaming Metaphore is not so iniurious to these Blessed Saintes as it is blasphemous against the holy Ghost whose thrice venerable writings did you reuerence in your hart more then the follies of your owne braine your pen would haue trembled to haue called that exposition Nody which so many graue Fathers without the contradiction of any do peremptorily affirme to containe his meaning What can be sacred and certaine amongst Christians if an vnlearned Knight may be permitted to deride that which the most famous Deuines and Fathers of former ages do deliuer as an vndoubted verity and Gods infallible word It is true that Fathers to proue this or that Catholike verity may sometimes bring places of Scripture that haue other sense yea perhaps the sense that one or other doth giue may not be the best although the doctrine therby proued be true which is to erre according to the Analogy of the Place not of Faith A distinction you vnderstand not yet when many Fathers of the Church agree in the same exposition of Scripture without the Contradiction of any the same is to be thought the vndeniable sense of that place For which cause Caluin cannot be excused of hereticall rashnes (h) Caluin comment in c. 10. Io. who dareth expound this Text of Scripture Ego et Pater vnum sumus I and the Father are one of vnity of Consent and Will not of nature and substance adding that the Ancients did abuse the same to proue the Consubstantiality of the Sonne of God Happily the text cannot be so strongly vrged but Caluin◠Arrianizing wit may find some plausible euasion to escape the force therof Yet seing the vniforme consents of Fathers haue canonized that meaning of the wordes he can not be a true Christian that will not neyther was Caluin that did not submit his Iudgment therunto For the vniforme consent of Fathers doth not require that euery one none excepted should expresly teach the same doctrine for then scarse in any point could this vniforme consent be proued seeing all write not of the same point but it sufficeth that many haue taught it in diuers ages without contradiction of the rest and such is the exposition of this place for Purgatory and for the dead in the next world Neither is S. Chrysostomes exposition you brought (k) Lett. p. 41. contrary vnto this that the synne against the holy Ghost shall not be forgiuen in this world nor in the world to come that is Non effugient poenam they shall surely be punished in this wold and in the world to come For first it is not sure and certayne that vniuersally all such synners are punished in this world Many tymes they florish prosper and spend their whole liues in great worldly ioylity as diuers Persecutors Sodomites Apostata's haue done which you name as synnes irremissible and call their Authors Synners in grayne Besides synne neuer to be remitted is more then to be punished in this world and in the next For as you heard S. Augustine say some endure temporall punishments in this life only and some in the next life only some in both so that one may be punished both in this and in the world to come and yet haue his sinne forgiuen at last The meaning then of S. Chrysostome is they shal be punished in this world without pardon and in the next likewise without remissiion Whence it doth follow some may be punished in the next with Purgatory Clemency as Boaethius speaketh (l) Lib. 4 praef 4. So that this exposition as I said though it be not taught expresly by euery Father yet is it not contradicted by any These things Syr you should consider before you speake you should wipe away Tobacco smoke from your eyes when a Card is turned vp before you cry Nody least often as now you haue done you lay the foule Epithete on the holy Ghost indeed that true King of Harts who moued those Fathers to expound the wordes of Christ for the remission of sinnes in the world to come 9. You oppose against our Catholike expositiō another deuised by your self or your Ministers wherin you do greatly delight You will grant sinnes pardoned in the next world and yet not yield one penny to our Purgatory box In this world say you (m) Lett. pag. 50. 51. sinnes are fully pardoned quoad remissionis applicationem by the application of pardon vnto them and the selfe same sinnes may and shal be pardoned in the next per remissionis promulgationem by the proclamation of pardon This distinction you thinke is the (n) p. 32. fiue fingers which you imagin will carry away the Set from the Fathers yet I dare say a man that hath bin conuersant in Scriptures will iudge it no better then Nody First because it is a new deuise not backed by the authority of any Father which therfore may iustly be suspected For Scriptures are to be expounded according to the traditions of our ancestors not by our owne fancies as the Goulden paire of Grecian Doctors Basil and Gregory did who durst neuer follow therin their owne iudgments as Ruffinus o recordeth neither would you Scripturarū intelligentiam non ex propria praesumptione sed ex maiorū scriptis authoritate sequebantur whose wit and learning is not to be paralelled with theirs were you as humbly conceited of your self as you haue cause Secondly because you neither do nor can bring any expresse testimony of Scripture to confirme this your new fancy nor any text that may giue the least colour or probability vnto it You cite the words of S. Iohn that the vnbelieuer is already condemned yet say you he must come to a second doome so is it with the belieuer Albeit he hath full remission granted (p) c. 3. v 18 and his pardon sealed in this life yet he must haue the same proclaimed at the generall Goal-deliuery in the world to come in which sense he may as truly be said to haue his sinnes pardoned as the other his condemned 10. Thus you preach very learnedly as you think though God knowes to little purpose For first you neither do nor can tel what is the first doome the vnbelieuer vndergoeth by which he is damned in this world and after which he must come to a second The ancient Fathers expound that place not that he is indeed sentenced in this world but is said to be condemned and iudged