a lye The next thing I have to present the Reader with 18 Error is their Lying and that first in saying They are perfect when all the fore-cited imperfections are found in them besides many more as shall be named The second Lye is that they say They are immediately sent of God which nothing is more false The third Lye is That one Fox writ a book and in the Title-page said The world did not know his Name and yet in two several places of the said Book he subscribes himself Known by the Name of GEORGE FOX The fourth Lye is That one Edward Boroughs said His Book was sealed by the Spirit of the Eternal God and being demanded to prove it he asked If any thing he writ in it was false it was replyed to him again If he proved that God sealed his Book we would believe all that was in it which I am sure he can never do while the world stands A fifth Lye is That James Nayler in a written Paper which he sent to me calls me shameless man for tempting him to deny the Lord when I said no such thing but that I did say to which he alludes in his Paper was That either he should prove he was immediately sent of God as he profest or else that he should renounce it and thereupon he calls me shameless man in tempting him to deny the Lord. A sixth Lye is That James Nayler in the said Paper saith If he had come in his own Name I would have received him as he saith I did plainly confess I do believe this man hath bent his tongue like a Bowe for lyes for I dare appeal to all the company which I believe were at least two hundred if I said any such thing A seventh Lye is that being charged with writing such falsities in his Paper by a friend that read it and knew what was in it he at a Meeting at the Bull and Mouth at Aldersgate in London did utterly deny it and while the said friend ran from them to my house which is not farre to fetch the said Paper to prove that he had writ those untruths that he had charged Nayler with in the mean time he slips away and was gone If these are tokens of perfection sure one may as well say the Devil is perfect but sure if these men are perfect in any thing it is in the art of deceiving lying and equivocation These are but few of those legions of Lyes and Inconsistencies that their Writings and Preachings are stust withall as the judicious may perceive that will but strictly weigh what they either write on speak in the balance of the Sanctuary Having now been in the place of a Respondent to shew the Fallacies and Non-sequiturs and absurd Contradictions of the Arguments that these men bring for their Quakings and Infallible Preachings together with other their vain Conceits of the Scriptures and of the Ordinances of our Lord Jesus Christ I shall now assert something briefly by way of opposition to these mens conceits and endeavor the proof thereof from Scripture and Reason as God shall enable me And first of all I shall affirm That the written Precepts and Promises of God together with his Threatnings of Judgements and Exhortations to amendment of life they are and ought to be esteemed the Words of God That his written Commands may and ought to be so called I prove from Mark 7.10 for Moses said Honour thy Father and Mother c. which was the writing of Moses Exod. 20.12 And Christ saith their making this written Law of none effect in doing nothing for their Father or Mother was To MAKE THE WORD OF GOD of none effect by their Tradition John 10.35 and Jer. 36.2 5. And Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah all the WORDS OF THE LORD and ver 8. He was reading in a BOOK the WORDS OF THE LORD Again the Apostle calls the Law of Moses which contained Precepts Promises Threatnings and Exhortations The Oracles or WORDS OF GOD Rom. 3.2 But it is objected The written Word did not make the World To which I answer That if they mean the Ink and Paper we make one minde with them But yet further I reply That the same God whose Word made the World and whose Word preserves the Fabrick of the World did speak those words that are written for the admonition of the World and therefore they may truly be call'd Gods Words according to the fore-cited Scriptures and many other that may be named Again it is objected That the Word of God abides for ever but the Writings may be burned To which I answer That this doth not prove that which they would have viz. That the Commands contained in the Scriptures may be burned or any of Gods Promises to him that sears him or his Judgements upon them that do not fear him No these remain like Mount Sion that shall not be removed As for example the Words of God were writ upon Tables of Stone yet the breaking of the Tables did not put a dissolution to those words that were contained in them but they were as truly to be observed as if the Tables had been whole Reader I should not urge these as arguments to those that disown the Scriptures in words at length but sure I am that they will serve to confute these men that in words own them yet in works deny them Again I prove the Scriptures as aforesaid to be the VVord of God out of their own mouthes though it may be they may deny the consequent for they though they deny them to be the VVord of God yet they say they are a declaration of his Minde and VVill. VVhence I thus argue That which declares Gods VVill is Gods VVord But the Scriptures declare Gods VVill Ergo it is Gods VVord The major I prove out of their own mouthes for they all say that Nothing can inlighten but the Word and that Nothing can bring us to know Gods Minde but the Word though it may be they mean somewhat else by Word then I do yet that matters not for if nothing can manifest Gods Minde but Gods VVord and the Scriptures by their own confession do so then it follows That by their own Principles if they have any that the Scriptures may be so called though in words at length they do deny it By which you may see how miserably these men contradict themselves in saying The Scriptures are not Gods Word and yet say They are a declaration of his Will when at another time they say Nothing can declare Gods Will but his Word which they say the Scripture is not Secondly I do assert That the Light which every man hath doth not direct him into the worship and service of God and though Christ be the true Light that inlightens every man that comes into the world or that doth that which in its nature and property hath such a tendency for so the Scriptures speak sometimes Ezek. 24.14
the Familists who were great perverters of the right wayes of the Lord in the dayes of Luther and Calvin especially in the Netherlands and many places in Germany as these are in our dayes to our grief we may speak it in many places in England The CONCLUSION I shall now conclude with a word or two of Caution and that first That every one would compare what I have writ with holy Scripture and then judge whether I have said any thing of these men that is either harsh or unsavoury save what the harshness and unsavouriness of their Opinions and Practises call for and then I hope none will think amiss of me for calling them Lyers Deceivers Blasphemers c. if they shall sinde that I have prove them such both by Scripture and Reason and their own Sayings and Writings I do confess that it is very common among men to call those that differ from them in Opinion Lyers and Deceivers c. though they are not able to prove them so But though this be an evil to call that an Errour or Blasphemy that one cannot prove to be so yet this doth not hinder but that I may lawfully call that an Errour and Blasphemy which the Scriptures call so in expresness of terms As for instance The Scriptures say He that denieth Christ come in the flesh is Antichrist Now though I may not call a man Antichristian that differs from me in some circumstances and disputable Points of Doctrine yet he that shall say He is equal with Christ or that shall say of himself That he is the Christ The Comforter The Way the Truth and the Life and the Eternal Judge of the World as these men have said of themselves surely such men may be call'd Deceivers Lyers and Blasphemers without breaking the Law of Love and Charity But if it shall be doubted whether the things I charge them with be true or no let me tell thee that all that I have writ concerning them are either such things as have fallen from their own Mouthes before hundreds of witnesses or else such things as have been faithfully collected out of their own Writings and therefore let me caution thee whoever thou art to reade their Books especially those places to which I have referred thee before thou judge I have wronged them This I am sure thou must do before thou canst judge righteous Judgement in the case And if thou doest but take pains to inform thy self thou wilt finde That the Erorrs I charge them with are either such as themselves being formerly charged with could not deny as appears by their printed answers to them or else they are such as they have in words at length positively afferted as will be found among their Writings in the books and pages I have cited I confess many things have been reported to me concerning the evil manners of some of the Teachers of this way and of the badness of their lives and though doubtless this hath not been without ground yet I do forbear to mention any thing of that kinde First because the miscarriage of some particular persons doth not prove the whole to be guilty unless it be in matters of Doctrine which they all receive and own And secondly because the Errours of mens lives and conversations do not infallibly prove the Errours of their Doctrine inasmuch as some men do walk contrary to what they make profession of yet let me tell thee one thing by the way viz. That though Errour in life doth not prove Errour in judgment yet Errour in conversation doth prove Errour in conversation my meaning is If the question be about Errors in Doctrine then the goodness or badness of the lives of them that profess it doth no way resolve the question certainly though it may probably but if the question be about Perfection in life which these Quakers say they have attained to then let me tell thee That any Errour in the lives of such proves infallibly that they are not such as they profess to be viz. Perfect men My last reason why I do not insist upon the particular evils that relate to the conversation of these men is Because I know that the proof thereof is not so easie for the Reader to attain because possibly many of them may live hundreds of miles from the places where this may come and also because that they will not believe any thing that is witnessed against any of their way but shuttle it off with saying That Christ and his Apostle were evil spoken of and persecuted c. But let me tell thee Reader whoever thou art That this is a vain plea for what though Christ and his Servants shall be evil spoken of without cause yet this proves not that therefore every one that is evil-spoken of is Christs Servant for thousands there are that give just cause to be evilspoke of daily and may not these men excuse themselves by saying Christ was evil-spoken of and do not the Papists Priests many of them at this day excuse their wicked and beastly practises with many of their Nuns who have vowed Chastity by saying That Christ was evil-spoken of and so are they for being his servants when indeed there is cause enough to speak evil of them though there was no cause to speak evil of Christ In like manner do these Quakers shuttle off all evil that is objected against any of them by saying They are belyed and suffer falsly therefore to prevent any thing of this kinde I charge them with nothing but what is either daily preached among them or else what may be found in their printed Books I have one Caution more that I shall give to my Antagonists if any of them shall undertake to write any thing in answer hereunto and that is That they lay aside all such un-man-like reasonings wherewith many of their Books are stuffed in telling their Adversaries They are Sots and Fools and Blinde and That they are of the Devil and in Darkness and speak the first wisdome from Beneath and That they are Lyers c. till they have first proved what hath been writ to be false and remember how foolish a thing it was counted to say Bellarmine lyed before he was proved a Lyer And therefore let what I have spoken be answered with words of truth and soberness and if by the words of truth it shall be made manifest that I have spoken any untruth I shall with the like readiness of minde make a publick acknowledgement of it to the world And I would also intreat That there may be no carping about words thereby to avoid the force of any argument or question that is proposed but that every thing whether Words or Arguments be orderly and directly spoken to that so the Readers on both sides may judge on which side the Truth lyeth as I question not but they will easily do Thus having discharged my conscience towards God in the publishing these Lines out of love to the
THE QUAKERS QVAKING OR The Foundation of their Deceit shaken BY SCRIPTURE REASON Their own MOUTHES at several Conferences By all which will appear That their QUAKING MINISTERY DOCTRINE and LIVES is a meer Deceit And themselves proved to be the great Impostors of these Latter Times By JEREMIAH IVES Matth. 24. â— 5. And Jesus answered and said unto them Take heed that no man deceive you For many shall come in my Name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many Rom. 16.18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple Prov. 14.15 The simple believeth every word but the wise man looketh well to his goings Job 6.25 How forcible are right words but what do your arguings reprove 1 Tim. 1.7 That desire to be Teachers of the Law understanding neither what they say nor whereof they affirm London Printed by J Cottrel for R. Moon at the Seven Stars in S. Pauls Church-yard 1656. To the Churches of the Lord Jesus Christ that are called to be faithful and that are baptized into his Name and meet together in his fear to stand for that faith that was once delivered to the Saints BRETHREN I Know none to whom these ensuing lines will be more welcome then to you because you are the men about whom Satan hath laid his closest siege and levied his greatest force I therefore thought it my duty to send to you some relief and if Possible to raise the siege that hath for a long time been laid against you by the great and subtile Adversaries to your Faith and Order which the Lord help you to continue in that so you may be terrible as an Army with banners and that you may so be it shall be my daily request to the Lord on your behalf that love and unity may increase among you that you may all minde one thing that so the Adversary may have no occasion given him to spoil you of your joy and rejoycing in the confidence that you have in Christ Jesus For when you shall divide and separate one from another and have bitter envyings among your selves rendings and tearings of the Body of Christ upon offences given or taken by some particular person or for some particular Opinion doth not this if I may use the phrase make the daughters of the Uncircumcised rejoyce and say How are the Mighty fallen even you that were once valiant for the Truth will they not say What are you become like us Therefore for the Lords sake let the bond of love and holiness be kept inviolable by you all that so you may be preserved from falling into the gulfs of Apostacy that many in these latter times have fallen into And that you may so be kept let me intreat you to keep high and honorable thoughts of the Scriptures let none of the words of our dear Lord Jesus slip out of your minde have a care of sucking in such Principles that will impair the Credit and Authority of Gods Words as That the Scriptures are not the Word of God and That the Light within you is of equal or better Authority and That it doth teach us how to Worship God without the Scriptures And prize the Ordinances of God and remember what a blessed thing it is for Christians to meet often together and to think often upon Gods laws and be frequent in the observance of them in a time when men say What profit is it that we have kept his Ordinances knowing that your labour shall not be in vain in the Lord. And those that God bath made your Elders and Overseers say unto them That they take heed to their Ministery left the Lord charge the Souls of them that shall be seduced upon their score and if God hath set such over you that do wake and watch for your souls have them in double honour have a care of slighting them that are your Watchmen left the Lord remove them from you into corners and you be left as a City forsaken for the wilde Beasts of the field and Boars of the forest to prey upon from which the Lord deliver you Oh therefore that you would every one in your places and callings watch and pray that you enter not into the temptations of these times especially these Quaking temptations that like the snares of the Fowlers are spread in all corners of the Nation and remember that you are for your lives that so you may escape the snare of the Devil into which many are led captive and are taken at his will and that you might be the better acquainted with his wyles I have presented you with a few of their snares that you might know how to escape them if they shall spread them before you And I doubt not but if you shall carefully observe and seriously examine the Truth of what is here proposed you will be throughly furnished to withstand these subtile Adversaries at every turn and preserve your selves from falling unto his heavenly Kingdom which shall be the Prayers of him who is willing to bow his knee for you all to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Jeremiah Ives To the Impartial READER of what Opinion soever READER I Shall desire no more savour from thee then to reade and judge whether what follows be not conclusive both from Scripture Reason and the mens own words again st whom I write as will appear by the several Conferences that I have had with them as also from their several Writings to which I shall refer thee if thou wilt take pains to search into them By which thou shalt see that this deceitful generation with whom I strive and whose deceit my pen hath been in travel to bring forth to the worlds view are such whose mouthes are full of great swelling and lying words saying They are immediately sent of God c. And when they are put to prove it can say no more then what others can say whom themselves cry down for Antichristian Nay there is many whom they daily cry down that can say more for their authority to Preach then themselves though they will not boast of their immediate sending and their mouthes are not onely stuft with such big-swelling words but their books also especially in the Title-pages of them as one calling his Book Love to the Loft another A Salutation to the seed of God another A discovery of the wisdome from beneath another The Power and Glory of God shining out of the North another The Royal Law and Covenant of God another News out of the North written from the mouth of God another The Vials of the Wrath of God pured upon the Seat of the Man of Sin another A Warning from the Lord to the Teacher and People another A true prophesie of the mighty Day of the Lord another A Trumpet from the Lord founded out of Sion another A VVhirlwind of the Lord gone forth
and trembles is a Saint of God and doth it by the impulse of the Spirit of God The next thing I shall speak to is their Doctrines And though I confess they preach somewhat that is true yet in this they are but the greater Deceivers For what Heretick is there but preaches some truth and what counterfeit silver will pass in pay if there be not some appearance of real silver So these men to put off their bad ware which other wise would not vent do usher it in with many truths But that the Reader may see that All is not gold that glisters take notice in the first place that these men will allow nothing to be call'd God's Word but Christ This is their first Errour in Doctrine which I thus prove 1 Error First because God hath but one onely-begotten Son Jesus Christ but he hath many Words That he hath but one Son Jesus Christ I prove from Joh. 3.16 1 Cor. 8.6 Eph. 4.5 That he hath more words then one I prove from Deut. 8.3 Man liveth not by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God Prov. 30.5 EVERY word of God is pure Jer. 23.36 the complaint is that the false Prophets had perverted the WORDS of the living God So that from this Scripture this Argument may be drawn against this Error viz. If God have plurality of words then somewhat else may be called the Word of God beside his onely Son Jesus Christ But God hath plurality of words Therefore somewhat else may be call'd Gods Word besides his onely begotten Son Jesus Christ And the fallacie of the Argument for the contrary is thus detected Jesus Christ is called the Word Ergo Nothing else must be call'd the Word but Jesus Christ May not a man as well say that Jesus Christ is call'd God's Son Ergo No one else may be call'd Gods son but Jesus Christ When we read that men are the sons of God by saith and Joh. 1. As many as believed to them be gave porter to become the sons of God though I confess they are not sons in the same sense that Christ is so likewise nothing is call'd the Word of God in the same sense the Scriptures call Christ so but himself Again the Scriptures call Christ a vine a door a shepherd but would it not be madness to say Where-ever we read of a vine a door or a shepherd it must be understood of Christ Their next Errour that I shall name 2 Error and which is a consequence of the former is this That they say the Scriptures may not be call'd the word of God and in many of their books they blame the Ministery of the Nation and others for saying the Scriptures are the word of God when Christ calls the written Law of Moses the word of God which he said the Pharisees had made of none effect by their traditions Mark 7.13 But see the horrible deceit of these men The Scriptures they say must be call'd a declaration of the minde of God but at no hand they must be call'd the word of God see their book call'd A cloud of witnesses in the Title-page and also in pag. 3. of the same Book toward the later end of it and the beginning of pag. 4. you have these words But the blinde guides the Priests of England that Preach for Tythes hire gists and rewards they do teach the people and say Hearken to the Word of the Lord as it is in a chapter and a verse and many other passages which I forbear to cite because it is a thing so generally preached and received by them viz. That the Scriptures are not the word of God but a declaration of the minde and will of God See now their deceit they would make the world believe that it detracts from the honour of Christ to call the Scriptures the word of the Lord and the word of God when in truth the designe is to raise up the honour of their own Pamphlets by the ruines of the Scriptures reputation in the hearts and mindes of men And therefore do but behold their impudence The holy Scripture say they must not be call'd God's word no no but see if they do not give the same titles and as great to their own bumbasted contradictious lying Pamphlets And for the proof of this let me give thee a recital of some of them among many They have one book called Love to the lost which is a Title proper to none but God and Christ yet this is given to one of their books Another is called A discovery of the wisdom from beneath which none but the word of God can do by their own confession many a time Another book is called The power and glory of God shining out of the North. Is not this Title as great as if they had call'd it the word of God Read and judge you whose light is not darkness Another is call'd The Royal law and Covenant of God which is as great a Title as the word of God Another is call'd News out of the North written from the mouth of God Another is call'd The Vials of the wrath of God upon the seat of the man of sin Another is call'd A warning from the Lord to Teachers and people Another is call'd A true prophecie of the mighty day of the Lord. Now if by the mighty day of the Lord they mean that there shall be such a day which they can hardly do because some of them have said The day of Judgment is past already but if that should be their meaning it could be no Prophecie for what prophesying is it for men to foretel such a thing shall be if others have said it before them for do not many by the writing of the Scriptures believe there shall be such a day yet these cannot be said to prophesie of it But if by prophesying of the mighty day of the Lord they mean to foretel the very day then they presume to know more then Christ or the Angels or any man according to that of Mark 13.22 But to proceed They have another book that is called A Trumpet from the Lord sounded out of Sion Another is call'd A whirlwinde of the Lord given forth as a flying fiery roll I would from all this ask but one question Whether these Titles which they give these books are not equipollent to the Title we give the Scriptures viz. The Word of God and yet these men blame us for this and give as great to their own Pamphlets But what shall we say they stop not here but at last call their own writings The Word of the Lord and A Word from the Lord as you may see in a book of theirs called A prophecie of the mighty day of the Lord p. 13. and the like in a book called The vials of the wrath of God p. 57. p. 9. p. 10. and in a book called News out of the North p. 10. and p. 24.
and in p. 1. of a book called The pure language of the Spirit and many other places where they do readily in words at length give those Titles to their own books they will not give to the Scriptures Doth not this plainly shew that the designe of this generation is to do by the Scriptures as Judas did by Christ viz. betray them with a kiss even by making men believe they do own the Scriptures when indeed it is that they may have the fairer oportunity to crucifie them in the croud of their pernicious Pamphlets The third Errour in their Doctrine is 3 Error That they say they are immediately sent of God see this in James Parnel's book called A shield of Truth page 12. He saith They can witness an immediate call from God to go from their Countries and Callings c. to go to preach the Gospel I could shew this out of many of their books but I spare that labour because it is dayly owned by them and they frequently assert it in publike conferences The substance of two of them I shall give you a brief account of one was in last May 1656. in Beech-lane London at which time I did propose Question to James Nayler viz. Whether ever any was immediately sent of God to preach the Gospel but either God did bear witness to them from heaven or else he did enable them to work Miracles by which they might evince the truth of their authority upon earth To this James Nayler replyed That God might send men for ought I knew to whom be bare no such witness To this I replyed That God did never immediately send any but he did either from heaven demonstrate the truth of their authority or else gave them power to work miracles upon the earth James Nayler told me I could not prove what I said To which I replyed That the saying proved it self unless he could give an instance of some so sent to whom God bare no such witness Hereupon James Nayler tells me That Matthias was so sent and yet did no Miracle To this I replied That the 2d of the Acts tells us That the holy Ghost fell upon them and they all spake with Tongues to the amazement of the beholders * And as for Matthias he was not sent immediately for he was chose by lot Acts 1. latter end So that he hath told two lyes first that Matthias was immediately sent secondly that he could not work Miracles both which are false as the first and second of the Acts declare To which James replied So can I speak with Tongues that thou canst not understand I told him I thought so he might in their Canting dialect but could he speak varieties of Languages that was natural to several Countreys To which he replied That he was not bound to answer to my demand being an unbeliever for saith he Christ told the Jews That a foolish and adulterous generation did seek a Sign To which I did reply That if he could shew as good a Sign for his immediate Call as Christ did shew that generation to prove he was the Me ssiah we would believe all he told us for Christ said That as Jonas was three dayes and three nights in the Whales belly so should he be three dayes and three nights in the heart of the earth This Sign he said should be given to them I challenge all the Quakers in England either to shew us such a Sign of their immediate sending or else never use that Text to reprehend them that ask a Sign For though Christ did reprehend them yet he shewed a Sign unto them Nayler did further reply and say That though Christ did mighty works it was not at or upon the time that they demanded it To which I replied That if he would but say he had done it at any time we would believe him Hereupon he tells us of his Call from the Plough To which I replied and told him again This doth no more prove that which was demanded then as the story goes the Man that left his fishing to be a Priest and afterwards came to be Pope was immediately sent of God To which he replies and tells me That when Paul was brought before the Civil Magistrate he gave no other account but onely told him how God call'd him To which I answered That if James Nayler could give any history of as good authority as the History of the Acts of the Apostles is for the proof of his Call we would believe him He hereupon calls me Lyer For saith he didst not thou tell me thou would st believe if I would but say it To which I answered That I did not say I would believe he was immediately sent of God if he did but say it for then I should give away the cause but if he said that he had at any time done a Miracle we would believe him Hereupon he told us That he would prove his extraordinary Call both by himself and other Witnesses And to make this good he gave us a Narrative how be was before the Magistrates of Appleby and told them how God call'd him in the field at Plough c. To which I did reply He was not before me to give an account to me as to a Magistrate And secondly I told him That this was a meer deceit for we expected he should prove the truth of his Call and he goes to prove That he told the Magistrates of Appleby he was thus call'd And I told him That I did not want proof that he did tell them so but that that which he told them was true which was the main thing in question Hereupon several of his Proselytes stands up to witness how he had turned them from darkness to light I told them that was a begging of the Question for the great question is Whether that be not Darkness they are turned to and that the Light they are turned from I therefore did tell them all that it was horrible presumption for such as they to proclaim both in City and Countrey that they were sent of God when indeed the Pope can say as much for his Infallible Chair the Turk for his Alcaron and the Jew for his Talmud and a great deal more Hereupon he desired me to dispute some other Points of Doctrine viz. Whether Faith were the gift of God and the like To which I answered That if he could prove that he was immediately sent of God we would believe all he said and if he did but that it would save us a labour to dispute other Points for if he did prove That God sent him to check and controll all the Religions of the World we would willingly be controlled by him which we did once and again call for proof of but could not have it I therefore bade him either renounce this pretended Call or else prove it before I would dispute any other Point of Doctrine with him Hereupon he told us he was immediately sent
question was a man or else he was not of age to understand that universals do include all particulars of their species and yet these are the men that witness perfection Let me tell thee Reader whoever thou art that these men are the saddest spectacles of Gods Spiritual Judgements that ever any Age hath heard of And surely if ever any people were given up to believe a lye these are the men for was it ever heard of that a man should profess to be immediately sent of God and to be infallibly guided by him and to have attained to perfection as these would have it and yet not know common sense What think ye if after Paul had told the Athenians Acts 17. that God did give to all life and breath if afterwards he should ask the Areopagite Whether God had given him life and breath Do you think he would ever have cleaved to Paul as the 34 Verse of the aforesaid Chapter doth declare he did and yet such are the injudicious mindes that many in our dayes are given up to that though an Angel from heaven should detect their vanity yet some would resolve to be vain A second instance of their inconsistency is That though they say the letter of the Scripture is carnal as appears by a Book of theirs call'd Sauls Errand to Damascus yet for the justifying of their conceited New-light they make use of the first of John and many other Texts in the letter though therein they stretch it beyond its line But further at another time they say That it is a sign of a dark minde to think the Scriptures should have another meaning * See a Book of theirs cal'd Truths Defence p. 1. And yet in the Book call'd Sauls Errand to Damascus they say The letter is carnal and yet for all this a little before in the same book they say He that raiseth Spirit out of it is a Conjurer as I have already mentioned upon another occasion What miserable confusion is here doth this look like perfection One while the letter is carnal and another while its conjury to raise Spirit out of it and another while its a sign of a dark minde to think the Scriptures should have another meaning and another while they will give other meanings to them then what is exprest in the letter A third instance of their inconsistency and by which all that I have said is justified is That though they say they own the Scriptures and will talk a few words sometimes in their behalf yet one of them said in a book call'd Truths Defence pag. 2. in answer to Parson Camelford of Stavely-Chappel That he might as well have condemned the Scriptures to the fire to be burned as his Quares that be sent unto him or that he might as well have said the sayings of Christ and his Apostles were absurd as to say those Quares were absurd they meaning his Quaeres being given forth by the same Spirit the Scriptures were A fourth instance of their inconsistency is That one William Tomlinson in a book of his call'd A word of Reproof p. 11. doth blame the Ministers for praying before or after Sermon and saith What did Christ or his Apostles fall short of what they ought to do and leave it to you to mend it And yet in other cases we must not follow Christ's and the Apostles example and yet he would bring them to disprove the lawfulness of praying before or after Sermon because they did not so But further he inveighs against the Ministers for so doing yet one of their own Merlins prayed after Sermon at the Bull and Mouth at Aldersgate before hundreds of people I pray judge if any thing of this look like perfection nay are not these things Strong symptomes of the greatest degrees of defection that can befal the sons of men Now I come to the next Errour 17 Error and that is They study and devise deceitful terms that look with two faces like the Oracles of the heathen Gods that they may the better effect their deceits as for instance one of them namely Farnworth being charged by Hen Haggar and Tho Pollard for saying Paul was not converted when be spake those words in the 7 to the Romans where be cries out of a Body of Death To this they answer in a printed book call'd Scriptures freed from Scandals pag. 12 13. That there is not such an Affirmative in the whole Book Now mark the charge is a Negative Proposition viz. That Paul was not converted when he spake those words in the 7 of the Romans concerning a Body of death they answer That there is not such an Affirmative in the whole Book Reader had these words fallen from the mouth of a man that were conscious of his imperfection Charity would have taught me to have over-look'd them but now I cannot for such a speech as this either argues the speaker to be imperfect and so discovers his deceit in saying he is perfect else if he be perfect as believe it who 's will how could such a thing fall from his pen and on the other hand if he understood what he writ then it follows that he writ that to rescue himself from the force of the charge that so simple people that know not a Negative from an Affirmative might think he was not guilty of such a charge by his saying There is not such an Affirmative in the whole Book But Oh the impudence of these men that dare to say That one might as well burn the Scriptures as their Papers when if the Scriptures had let fall Negatives in stead of Affirmatives and Affirmatives in stead of Negatives how could they have been for our learning upon whom the ends of the world are come I dare challenge all men in the world either Quaker Atheist or Anti-Scripturalist to shew me such a piece of Non-sense from any of the Pen-men of old who were inspired by the holy Spirit Who will believe that these mens tongues and pens are infallible Oracles that know not I from No and that put Nay in stead of Yea for is it not the same he is charged for saying Paul was not converted and he saith There is no such Affirmative in his whole Book but then it seems there is such a negative and if so then how dare they call those honest servants of Christ lyers viz. H Haggar and Tho Pollard By this you may see that these are the greatest Seducers that these latter Times have produced and the Lord grant that these things that I do bring to thy minde concerning them may be as warnings to you that stand to take heed left you fall and you that know God delight to glorifie him left he give you over to a reprobate minde to do the things that are not covenient Take heed there fore and be warned of turning the truth of God into a lye as these men have done left God in his Justice give you up to believe
as a Flying fiery Roll another The Shield of Truth c. By these great bushes they call the simple in to drink of their adulterated Wine which is but as the Wine of Sodom and as the Grapes of Gomorrha These are the Out-cries by which they call the simple to drink of the wine of their Spiritual Fornications For I challenge any of them all to make it appear that any one of these Titles mere given these Pamphlets by him whom they intitle to them And therefore good Reader consider these following lines and what shall be found true imbrace though it be not bumbasted with the feigned words of them who would make merchandize of your Souls and slight it not in any thing wherein it speaks Scripture or right Reason though with some neither are of weight which is all that is desired from thy Friend JER IVES The QVAKERS Quaking OR The Foundation of their Deceipt shaken both in their Quakings Doctrines Ministerie and Lives IF ever the My stery of Iniquity or Iniquity in a mystery did work in the hearts and mindes of men or if ever the devil did manage a Designe under ground surely be doth it now by the men called QUAKERS who like so many Apes do imitate many of the Faithful in some circumstances that they may the better deceive in matters that are most substantial And this through the help of God I shall make appear by shewing that their Quaking and their Doctrine Ministery and Lives is a meer deceit And first I shall speaking somewhat touching their Quaking and therein I shall first speak something touching their Name and secondly something touching their Practice viz. Quaking and the Scriptures they urge in favour to such a practice I Shall in the first place speak to that Name or Title by which they are known to the world viz. QUAKERS In this they would make men believe they are nick-named as appears in a book of James Nayler's called The discovery of the first wisdom from beneath where in the Title-page he subscribes himself One whom the world scornsully nick-names and calls Quaker Again in another book of his called The power and glory of the Lord shining out of the North in the title-page he subscribes himself One whom Ishmael's brood calls a Quaker I could bring many instances of this kind to shew how they would make men believe they are greatly wronged when they are distinguished from other men by this term Quakers Now see their deceit they say Ishmael's Brood and the world calls them so and yet they take paines to prove themselves so see page 16 and 17 of the last fore-mentioned Book he saith But search the Scriptures and holy men of God do witness quaking and trembling See likewise Parnel's Shield of Truth p. 1. and a Book of theirs called Sauls Errand to Damasew p. 32. It being asked by a Justice How it came to pass that people quake and tremble James Nayler answered that the Scriptures witness the same condition in the Saints formerly c. Now pray observe the Christians of old were never offended at that which the Scriptures did witness them to be as for instance the Scripture calls them believers because they believed disciples because they had learned Saints because they were holy and they that prayed were called a praying people Now where do the Saints of old anywhere call these Nick-names when they were call'd according to what they either believed or practised Is it any more a Nick-name to call a man a Quaker that quakes by the power of God if that be true that they say then to call a righteous man a righteous man that is made righteous by the power of God or is it any more a Nick-name to call a man a Quaker that witnesses to quaking and owns it then it is to call a man a Christian that witnesses to Christ and owns him I believe a man may deridingly be call'd a Christian as doubtless some of these are call'd Quakers and so many are deridingly call'd Saints and holy men yet these are no Nick-names if they are so the people in captivity were deridingly bid to sing one of Sion's songs yet these were not Nick-names to those songs By this you may see that they are Lyers in saying that they are Nick-named Quakers when themselves say they witness quaking and though themselves witness quaking yet they say that they are Ishmael's brood that calls them so But I pray tell me if a man be frequently found in railing whether this be a Nick-name to call him a Railer In like maner if these people as themselves confess do frequently quake what Nick-name is it to call them Quakers But now to their Scriptures alleadged for quaking shaking and trembling it is true that some good men do say thus of themselves as Heb. 12.21 Ezek. 12.18 Jer. 33.9 Acts 9.6 Psal 119.6 and many other places To all which I answer first This doth not prove that all were good that did quake and tremble for the devils were quakers and tremblers James 2.19 Again good men made use of Scriptures to exhort and instruct yet some do make use of them to deceive and tempt as the devil did Christ Matth. 4.6 In like manner may Deceivers fall into quaking fits that so they may hoâ—â—â—â—me resemblance with the servants of God that did tremble for fear of God though the fear of God be departed from them for the devil many times and his ministers that they may the better effect their deceits do transform themselves into the likeness of the ministers and servants of Christ 2. None of the Saints of old did ever foam at mouth in this their trembling but some of you do as many are able to witness and as your selves cannot deny When it was objected against you in the Westmoreland-Petition that your practces did exceedingly savor of Sorcery because of the swellings quakings and roarings and foamings that were among you at your meetings but especially of young children you deny no part of the Charge in your Answer but Blasphemy and Sorcery by which it plainly appears that swellings and foamings could not be denyed else you would as well have replyed to that as Blasphemy and Sorcery For this see their Book in answer to the West morland-Petition p. 35. where they make no reply to foaming and swelling though it is charged upon them to be in yong children as well as old folks Whereupon I demand Whether any of the Saints of old ever foamed at mouth when they trembled 2. Whether any young children did ever foam at mouth quake swell and tremble in the Saints meetings 3. Whether such kinde of trembling that is accompanied with foamings do not rather argue a man to be possess'd with the devil then with the Spirit of God according to that of Luke 9.39 Lastly Whether this be a good Argument viz. Some of the Saints did quake and that by the impulse of the Spirit of God Therefore every one that quakes
some in it But our Lord Christ though he did mighty work in Corazin and Bethsaida he saith they repented not Which very Argument of yours is so farre from proving you are sent of God immediately that it rather proves the contrary for who hath made more Proselytes then the Roman Priests and Monks have as for instance Austine the Monk who was sent to the Saxons by the Bishop of Rome converted 10000 in a few dayes See Speeds Chronicle pag. 291 Sect. 8. And who is there that is acquainted with the proceedings of the Spaniards in the West-Indies but can tell that thousands are daily reduced from Heathenism to sober and upright lives by the Roman Ministery and yet this drawing of multitudes is an Argument That Quakers are sent of God but must not be urged by others though they are able to say more at this turn then all the Quakers in England By this you may see that the Quakers are shaking and would gladly make every Straw a Staff to lean upon But lastly if it be as they say That very man hath a Light within him that would turn him if he do follow it to what purpose do they preach one to another So that they have no cause to impute the converting of men to their Ministery for they might convert without it The last Argument to which I said little then by reason I was interrupted with their Women-preachers was this viz. That it did appear they were immediately sent of God because they did not give respect to persons I answer first then All the Quakers both men and women are sent of God immediately to preach the Gospel for none of them give respect to persons But secondly is not this an abominable piece of wickedness for by the rule of contraries Paul was not sent of God for he did respect Festus and call'd him MOST NOBLE FESTUS Acts 24.3 and 26.25 Now all the people were not Most Noble for the Scripture saith Not many Noble are called by which it appears that some were more Noble then others and had that respect given to them that was not common to all But I shall say more to this anon My last answer to this Argument if I may so call it and James not judge me for a Lyer is That if their not sitting up and giving civil respect be an argument that these are sent of God then Austin the Monk was sent of God and many others that I could name but let me trouble you with the recital of one story concerning Austin the Monk and upon the reading of it you will think if James saith true that Austin was a man sent immediately of God Austin 561 yeares after Christ in the time of Ethelbert King of Kent was sent by Pope Gregory to convert the Saxons who some time after call a Synod unto which resorted seven British Bishops and other learned men saith Beda in this History Book 2. Chap. 2. These men now ready to go to the Synod came first to a certain holy wise man to ask his counsel which some think was bishop of York Whether they ought at Austins Preaching and Exhortation to leave their Traditions Austin being come a stranger among them The good man answered If he be a man of God follow him but said they how shall we know that He answered Christ saith he said That we should learn of him for he was humble and meek of heart If therefore saith this good man this Austin be milde and bumble it is like he is of God but if he be proud no proud man is of God Then the Bishops inquired how they might know that The man answereth Provide saith he that he and his company come first to the place of Meeting and if it be so that when you approach near him he arise and salute you then think him to be the Servant of Christ but if he do not vouchsafe to rise at your presence let him be despised They hereupon took the old mans counsel and when they came in Austin the Monk sate very still in his Chair and stirred not hereupon they judged him a proud man See Speeds Chron. pag. 291. I do urge this to shew That if this be an argument a man is sent of God immediately surely this man viz. Austin the Monk was so sent of God and so are all the Popes at this day that will not reverence any Monarch under Heaven so that these Arguments are so slender that if Christ and his Apostles had had no better they had never made any Proselytes to the Kingdom of Heaven to this day how greatly soever you brag of your Converts I now come to their next Error 4 Error and that is That every man hath a Light within that will teach a man to Worship God rightly This is so common a principle of theirs that to go about to prove it were but to hold a candle to the Sun therefore taking this for granted that they thus teach as I hope I may without wrong to them I shall now shew That this is false Doctrine and is taught to no other end I fear then to thrust out the Authority of the holy Scriptures 1. For first what need is there of Scripture to declare the Minde of God if it may be known without it every whit as well But now the Scripture saith that what was writ afore-time was writ for our Learning Rom. 15.4 and John 20.31 But these things were writ that you might believe 1 Cor. 10.11 These things were written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come 2. I demand Whether by the Light which is in the whole world or in every one that comes into it all men may come to know a Virgin had a Son without any other external means 3. I demand Whether the Light in every man without the Scriptures can bring every man to know Christ dyed and rose again in three dayes 4. I demand What favour it was to the people of Israel to have the written Law of God in such a manner as it is said of them He had not dealt so with any Nation if all Nations by the Light within them might have with the like facility understood to serve and worship God as well without them 5. Whether all men by the Light within them before the coming of Christ could ever have understood that he should be born in Bethlehem as it was written 6. Whether the Name of Jesus Christ may be knowne to all the World by the Light within them without Scripture or Traditions 7. I demand if the Light within can inform all men into the Divine Worship and Service of God without the Scriptures Whether it may not do it without your Books If so 8. Whether or no you that will not be prodigal of your Apparel and who will not lay out money upon needless things are not at this turn very prodigal to buy candles to light them to the Sun My meaning is to
14 15. And Luke calls Theophilus Luk. 1.3 Most Noble Theophilus And Christ himself bids his Disciples Not to covet the uppermost rooms at feasts lest a MORE HONORABLE person come in and then they be bid sit lower Luke 14.8 By all this you may see that though we must not respect persons in Judgement or do any thing for a rich man because he is rich without respect had to the equity of the cause or give flattering Titles to men to whom it is not due as to call one Master and say I am his Servant when I owe him no service yet this doth not hinder but a man may and ought to acknowledge himself a Servant when he is really and truly so And though it be flattery to give Titles that are not due yet it is a duty to give them where and when they are due Seventhly they are not Infallible as they pretend This I prove because if one propose a question to one of them he shall give one answer propose the same to another he shall give another answer quite contrary to the former and so if you shall go on to a fourth or fifth not one of five nay I dare say not one of ten shall give the same answer with the first and yet sometimes these men do make the harmony that is among them an argument that they are infallible when no Trumpet that sounds forth any thing of Religion to the world gives a more uncertain sound then theirs And truly I know nothing wherein they were ever so well agreed as they were office at their Meetings in Kent wherein they all agreed to meet together many times and said nothings Truly if this dumb spirit had alwayes been among them it had been happy for many thousand souls in this Nation who are now miserably deluded with their fair words Eighthly I shall further prove in opposition to another Errour of theirs That Christ had and yet hath another Body besides his Church And my first Argument is this viz. If Christ had a Body that was broken for his Church then he had a Body besides the Church But he had a Body that was broken for his Church Ergo. The major is unquestionable or else Christ gave the Church to be broken for the Church if he had no Body besides the Church which is absurd The minor is proved from Matth. 26.26 Luke 22.19 where Christ saith of his Body that it was broken for them By this you may see these men either cannot or will not distinguish between the Body of Christ which is glorified in the Heavens and the Church of Christ which is his Mystical Body upon Earth and who if they continue faithful shall have their vile bodies made like unto his glorious body according to that of the Apostle Phil. 3.21 Thus Reader thou hast an account of a sew of those many vain Errours that are profest by this generation of men who go up and down to subvert whole houses and congregations and to pervert the right and straight wayes of the Lord. But I hope the Lord will put a stop to these mens careers that they may proceed no further that their folly may be made manifest unto all that every one may take heed that he be not led away wit the errour of the wicked and fall from his own stedfastness I shall now proceed to shew the Reader that these conceits though they are newly risen among us yet they were such wherewith the Churches of Christ have been pester'd even in the Primitive Times and that not onely in the dayes of the Apostles but in the Ages following wherein men did rise up and say They were sent of God and afterwards grew into such Blasphemous Opinions as these men are now fallen into some saying They are the Eternal Judges of the World others saying The Day of Judgement is past Others saying They have Divine Revelations others saying They are Christs and That they are the Way the Truth and the Life c. And that these men do agree with most of the Hereticks both Ancient and Modern I shall mention some few among the rest As first they have affinity with Hymeneus and Philetus who said That the Resurrection was past already 1 Tim. 2.18 in that they as I have already shewn say The Day of Judgement is past already Secondly they have affinity with the Gnostici which said They knew all things See Epiphan Haeres 26. So say these men and thereupon one of them namely Farnworth being asked If he knew what two men spake one to another being apart from them he answered That though he did know yet he was not bound to answer the question because saith he it is an unbeliever that asketh it Again they agree with the fore-cited Hereticks inasmuch as they taught That Christ did not take flesh really but in a figure so say these for one of them being asked this question answers That Christ was but a figure See Sauls Errand to Damascus pag. 54. Thirdly they have affinity with the Manichees whose Ring-leader Manes call'd himself The Comforter and said He was Christ Euseb lib. 7. cap. 30. So do some of their Teachers saying They are the Way Truth and Life Fourthly they have affinity with the great Heretick Seleucus who denied the Humanity of Christ to be in Heaven and Water-baptism He lived in the time of Theodosius Magnus See August lib. de Haeres Both which Errours are maintained by the Quakers though they are repugnant to holy Scriptures Fifthly they have affinity with the Papists in the great Master-veins of Popery As 1. the Papists do introduce all their vain conceits by this Maxime That the Church cannot Erre and from thence it is that the Quakers do usher in all their Dreams viz. That they are perfect and cannot erre 2. The Papists do make the writings of their General Councels of equal Authority with holy Scripture So do the Quakers make their pernicious Pamphlets And at this they exceed the Papists for the Papist will not say That none of their Priests have erred neither will they say That the Writings of any particular man except the Pope is Infallible but these Quakers say That their Writings are of equal Authority with hely Scriptures although they are the private conceptions of either particular men or womens brains 3. They agree with the Papist Priests in that they would make the outside of their conversations an argument to demonstrate the truth of their Apostolical sending In like manner as I have formerly said James Nayler and Boroughs and divers others of their false Apostles being asked How they could prove they were sent of God answered That their lives did make it manifest because they denied themselves in point of Apparel c. By this it appears that the Quakers are compounded with most of the grossest Errours that the Church of old were incumbred withall Sixthly and lastly they do in many of their fore-mentioned Errours agree with their lorefathers
world in general but more especially out of love to my Brethren whose feet many of them are taken in this Snare not knowing that they are for their lives And if God shall bless these Lines either to the prevention of the falling of them who through grace yet stand or to the restoring of those that are fallen or if otherwise I have mistaken any thing God will bring this good of my mistake if in case any be found as to raise up and provoke some one or other to make my mistake manifest If by these Lines I obtain any of these ends which I do not much question then sure I am that I have not run in vain but shall give God the glory while I am able to subscribe my self Jeremiah Ives POSTSCRIPT READER AFter I sent my book to the Press I had another Conference with James Nayler on the 22 of June 1656. at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate which was as followeth The people being met and James Nayler standing up to speak I did desire that James Nayler would prove that which he had so often afferted viz. That every man in the world had the Light within him spoken of in John 1. To this James Nayler replyed saying That Christ did inlighten every man that came into the world according to Joh. 1. To this I answered That I did not oppose the saying of that Text but his saying which was That every one in the world had the Light within him Spoke of in that Text. To this James Nayler replies saying He would have me bring him a man in that place that would say the Light of Christ was not in him To this I did answer First that every man in the world was not in that place and therefore if every one in that place should say This Light was in them it did not follow that therefore that Light spoken of Joh. 1. was in every one in the world But secondly I told him That if every one in that place would say they had this Light in them it did 〈…〉 as I fear many of this generation do I did therefore bid James Nayler to give me a Scripture to prove that every one had the Light within them spoken of Joh. 1. He answers That it was proved already in every mans Conscience but saith he it is not evidenced for if it were there would need no Teaching To this I replyed that if it were proved to every mans conscience then it was EVIDENCED for proof and evidence to the conscience was one and the same which he denied I further told him That the conscience might be misguided and therefore it did not follow that a thing is therefore true because a man in conscience thinks it so I therefore as before call'd for a plain Text for proof of what he said He thereupon brings Eph. 5.13 2 Cor. 4.6 I told him Neither of these Scriptures did prove That every man in the world had the Light within him spoken of Joh. 1. and therefore if he had any Scripture that said it he would do well to produce it and if not to forbear preaching any such thing that he could shew no Scripture for Hereupon James assumes an Apostolical Authority and saith That though there were no Scripture that said what he said yet it might be true for saith he the Apostles said many things that THEY had no Scripture for To this I replyed That he was no Apostle and therefore as before call'd for a proof of this notion that they preach in most places where they come viz. That everyone hath this Light within him He hereupon demanded How Christ was the Light that lighteth every one that comes into the world if this Light was not in every one To this I did answer as formerly That God and Christ were usually said in Scripture-dialect to do things for the world when they did use a means sufficient for the doing of it and so Christ is said to take away the sin of the world and to be the Saviour of the world and the Saviour of ALL men though all men shall not be saved inasmuch as he hath by his dying for the world put all men into a salvable capacity In like manner he lighteth every one that comes into the world inasmuch as he useth means for the bringing the world to the Light though all have not this Light WITHIN them Again I told James Nayler That this Light in Joh. 1. was Christ who is the Light of the world and if every one had this Light in them then every one had Christ in them But I told him that could not be because we reade Eph. 2. of some that were WITHOUT Christ I further told him That the Scriptures told us of some that had NO Light in them Joh. 11.10 Isa 8.20 He answered That possibly God had put out their Light because they did not walk according to it To this I did reply That then he did contradict himself for if some had no Light in them because God had put it out How could he say EVERY ONE HATH this Light IN him But further the Text in Joh. 11. saith that If A MAN walks in the dark he stumbles BECAUSE there is NO Light IN him Now I told James Nayler That those that he sayes he turns from darkness are such as WALK in darkness by their own confession and if so then whether it be not better to say with the Texts There is no light in him then to say contrary to the Text with the Quakers that when men walk in darkness The light of Christ is in them Hereupon James Nayler asked If the heathen had not a Light I told him first that they might have a light among them that they might not receive within them And secondly that though they had a Light in them yet this did not prove that the Light which they had was the Light spoken of Joh. 1. which Light is Christ Jesus which is the thing they affirm I therefore did intreat him to reconcile their Doctrine with Joh. 11.10 Their Doctrine is that Every one hath the Light of Christ within him John saith If a man walk in the dark he stumbleth because there is NO Light IN him To this James Nayler replyed that there were two seeds in man and there was an old man and a new man and a man born after the flesh and a man born after the Spirit so that saith he he that is the old man and born after the flesh he hath no Light in him I then asked him How every one that comes into the world hath the light of Christ in him if he that is born after the flesh have not the Light within him for as I then told him no man comes into the world but he is born after the flesh He answers that I spake like a Sot in saying that very man that came into the world was born after the flesh for saith he Christ was not born after