the whole shal be disgraced because of those base thinges and Persons Besyde this a confessed Trueth is not to be estemed if it were either but once Or without cumpanie Or done at midnight To be shorte no Musitian shal be alowed because he is a Piper and no maker of verses neuer so good because he is a Poete And so the conclusion will be that nothing almoste shal be brought so worthy and euident but M. Iewel by his arte and policie wil make it obscure and simple If this be tolerable theÌ„ is D. Harding answered but if this be vnreasonable then hath not M. Iewell vsed a necessarie point of discretion Or modestie Of M. Iewels wrangling with D. Harding CAP. 6. THis whiche already I haue specified is to muche for a sober man to vse but this yet is not all that M. Iewel abuseth himselfe in againste D. Harding For byside peruerting or defacing of his Authorities he wrangleth also very contentiously with him And that not after a general sense only or meaninge of this worde but after a Singular proper fasshion For to speake in general Al the deprauing of D. Hardings Argumentes al the disgracing of his witnesse al the turning and shifting from one pointe and state of the question to an other which as I haue shewed M. Iewel vseth in the first foure articles all this I say may wel goe vnder the name of contention and quareling and in this sense the whole Replie is stuffed therewithall But in this place I note that singular kind of coÌ„teÌ„tiousnes by force of which any man driueth his aduersary to prouing of that which is either so possible that a thousand experiencies declare it either so credible that they them selues which aske for profe of it do openly and plainly confesse that they doe not deny it As in three or fower Examples VVhat if foure or fiue sayeth D. Harding of sundrie houses in a sicknes tyme being at the point of death in one Parisshe require to haue theyr rightes er they departe This case is not only possible by course of time but also common through infection of coÌ„tagious aiers But yet M. Iew. replieth What if no man happen to be sicke Then hath M Harding loste a good Argument But what if some happen to be sicke Then haue you M. Iewell found a Rude Obiection For of the two which is more possible To haue in a plage tyme foure or fiue Sycke Or to haue a tyme of Sycknes and none at all Sycke in it For of a tyme of Sycknes D. Hardinge dyd speake And if you will put A what if againste the tyme it selfe and suppose that there is no plage at all as this I graunt is possible so is by lyke Reason the other also Neither can you by putting your case so distroie the contrarie supposition that you might seeme to make it frustrate and voide Or disapointe thereby your Aduersaries purpose What if foure or fyue Principall Protestantes should be connerted by Reading the Bookes of Catholykes could not they vtter many secrete Deuises of yours for Open professing of whiche you lacke but a better world Yea but saie you againe what if suche wayes be taken for lettinge of Catholyke Bookes to come into the Realme that by Readinge of them none shall see what is Answered In deede you haue put me a case Iew. 3â— whiche is lykely inough and I could sone Answer vnto it that it is a hard Case also to Prouoke and Challenge And bid men speak make as though we should haue coÌ„mendation for our freenes And at y t very beginning to let theÌ„ y t wuld and should or reade or heare what we say But yet what were this to y â— answer of my question For it is possible inough that although you make the serche neuer so diligent yet some wise men of your owne side wil be desirous to vnderstaÌ„d our answers not be hastie to condeÌ„ne vs before iudgemeÌ„t Therfore wheÌ„ a likely or possible case is put to make a cleane coÌ„trary vnto it as though it were theÌ„ fully refelled what other thing is it but to fight vpon anger not for truth And to procure troble only to y e aduersary and not to manifest and open your owne doctrine Of what affectioÌ„ humor shal I say it cuÌ„meth y â— you dare permit y e historie which Amphilochius writeth of S. Basile to be true Iew. 91. yet wil not be ruled by it Doth not this proue y â— you haue a sprite of coÌ„tention within you and that you shift to make exceptions against the Trueth Iew. 89. That you mislike not daily preaching yet y â— you reproue D. Harding for saieing y â— in Antioche y e scripturs were dayly expouÌ„ded preached doth it not argue a conteÌ„tioâ—s stomake for suppose y t it were not true yet no harm cuÌ„ming therof vnto y e reader what neede was there of a special and solemne refelling of it No dout but if you were disposed M. Iew. you could quickly fynd it owt that dayly exposition of the scripture might be in Antioche and yet y e coÌ„mon people be called thereunto but once a weeke as S. Chrysostome saieth For it might be throughowt the Churches of Antioche by course and in that course the sermon might be one daye in S. Chrysostomes church Also there might be dayly expounding of the scriptures to y e Clergie though not to the people And the Proposition conteyning in it nothing against good maners or truth of doctrine a quiet man in so much matter byside requiring in deede a ful Answer would not haue troubled hymselfe with this question When you saie in an other place that Iew. 16â— It is neither denied of you nor any part of your quaestion that sundrie nations in Asia the lesse vnderstoode not the Greeke and yet notwithstandinge is not M. Harding hable to proue it with al his Gheasses doe ye not signifie by these wordes that your good wil is not plainely and peaceablie to declare the Trueth of your doctrine but your Stomake is against y e person of your aduersarie and that ye seeke to contrarie his saieinges When you saye Verely if a man by waie of contention would saie the Licaonical tongue was a corruptioÌ„ or difference of the Greeke tongue not a seueral tongue of it selfe M. Har. should haue much a doe Iew. 164 to proue the contrarie And in saieing so wheÌ„ yourselfe by by doe contrarie D. Har. therein is it not straitewaies manifest y t you folow the waye of contention More might be brought against you M. Iew. in this kinde but if by these few Examples it be perceiued that you haue wrangled and striued where no cause was offered I trust that although yourself be so affected y t you wil neuer submit yourselfe And yeld to the Catholike and Romane Church yet other which loue trueth and Sinceritie wil take heede how they commit the
nothinge to beware in him selfe of y t foly let him marke these that folowe The chief Authoritie beinge acknowleged and confessed â—at fo 101. whether theÌ„ he were called by either of those names that you deny or no it is not of greate importance M. Hardinge seemeth in part willingly to yeeld Iew. 220 Againe It was as easy a matter for Christ to geue Peter the Power and Title bothe togeather as to geue him the power alone without the Title Here I can not chuse but answer some what though for desire of shortnesse I haue and must let many thinges passe which might be staied vpon Who doubteth but Christ in deede might haue geuen the Title which M. Iew. findeth lackinge togeather with the power and Authoritie ouer the Church yet for so much as he hath not done it it becometh not vs to find any imperfection in his doinges but to honor them with all Reuerence though we see no reason for them or with all humilitie to thinke vpon them whether good causes may be brought furth and alleged for them or no. And truly concerninge this matter of which we speake we may rightly iudge y t because weyght and worthinesse is in the Thinges them selues therfore he gaue the power to S. Peter As for Names and Titles because they are so easely geueu as appereth by styles of Noble men and Princes his maiestie was not ouer curiouse in them Yet he left not S. Peter without a name of honor also sayinge Thou shalt be called Cephas Io. 1. which is interpreted Petrus a rocke or Stone Which Title duly considered is of more weight and worthinesse than either the name of Head Rector Gouernor Prince Christ gaue S. Peter a Title of dignitie and power or vniuersal Bishope Which as they signifie a Preeminence aboue others so do they not warrant a Continuance a Stedfastnes a sure Ground to buyld vpon and a Principall and Chiefe Stone in the house of God as Cephas or Petros which are to say a Rocke doe for our Sauyour expressed it in the hearinge of the twelue and sayed to S. Peter only and specially Thou art Peter or a Rocke Mat. 16. and vpoÌ„ this rocke will I buyld my Church and the gates of hell shal not preuaile against it And to thee will I geue the keyes of the kingdome of heauens and what thinge soeuer thou byndest vpon Earth shal be bound in heaueÌ„ what thinge soeuer thou loosest vpon Earth shal be loosed in Heauen Mary this Title of Vniuersall bishope or Head of the Church he gaue not him in plaine Termes But what of that He instituted effectuall Sacramentes yet he neuer called any of them by the name of Sacrament He taught men to beleue in the Trinitie yet the word is not found in all scripture The prophet Dauid calleth the Apostles Princes of all the Earth Psal 44. yet Christ which gaue them Authoritie ouer al sayeth no more but Goe and Preach the Gospell to al creatures Mar. 16. And againe I send you furth as sheepe emong wolues Mat. 10. Againe your master is one Christ and al ye are Brethern Mat. 23. and neuer called them Princes How then Doth M. Iew. find an imperfection in Christes doinges And thinketh he secretly in his hart that a Power is not well geuen without a Title And that if him selfe might haue ordered the matter To anger or troble the Catholikes M. Iewel makâ—th obiections against God himselfe the Name and Office should haue ben geuen both together from wheÌ„ce cometh this that a wretched and a vile creature hath to saye any thinge against his Maker The Catholike Church is coÌ„teÌ„ned The iudgement of y e highest Bishope in the earth is condeÌ„ned to hinder y â— Pope And aÌ„ger y â— Catholikes he is not afraied to dally with Almightie God him selfe And to aske of vs whether it was not an easy matter for him to geue Peter the Power and Title al together That when we shall confesse the Title was not geuen Either foolishe or blasphemous he may infer Ergo neither the Power Which argument If your selfe M. Iewel thinke to be naught what a wyse man are you so trimly to set it furth If it be good what a Miserable felow are you which dare so to speake of him that is Alwyse and Almightie As though it should not be agreable to geue a Power and not the Title Confesse that you haue ouershot your selfe in makinge so much of a weake reason Or looke to be Answeered accordingly when him selfe shal come in Iudgement for such purpose But let vs goe forward To this Church of Rome D. Har. Fo. 106. it is necessarie al that be faithfull to repaire and come togeather for the mightier Principalitie of the same Iren. lib. 3. cap. 3. Againe Andrew reâ—eiued not the Primacie but Peter Amb. 2. Cor. 12. Againe The Primacie or Principalitie of the Apostolike Chayre Aug. epi. 162. hath euermore bene in force in the Romaine Church Now marke what M. Iew. concludeth He answereth after his maner vnto euery one but he triumpheth not therein but in this sayinge M. Hardinge trippinge as he sayeth so nicely ouer the Doctors hath not yet once towched Iew. 254 Here begynneth the he and 〈◊〉 the thingethat was looked for and that he hath only and with such affiance take in hand For notwithstanding a great PoÌ„pe of wordes and the Names of manie holie Fathers yet hath he not hitherto shewed that the Bishope of Rome within the space oâ— six hundred yeares after Christ was euer called the Vniuersall bishope Or the head of the vniuersall Church VVhich thinge iâ— he could haue shewed I beleue he wold not so lightlie haue tripte it ouer See how ernest he is vpon the name of Vniuersall Bishop And how sore him selfe stumbleth at one simple word Tripping And how much he craketh before the end that the word he looketh for is not yet shewed But see in an other place D. Harding from the 108. leafe to the 119. of his boke proueth the necessitie of one head and authoritie of the Bishope of Rome By naturall reason By Appeales made to Rome By Excommunications directed from Rome By Elections of Bishopes confirmed by the Pope By his Approuinge or Disprouinge of Councels By restoringe of Bishopes wrongfulli coÌ„deÌ„ned to their Churches By Bishops and Patriarches reconciled vnto him And then goeinge forward in this matter Although it be a childish thinge saieth he to sticke at the name any thinge is called by yet I will bringe good witnesse for these names VNIVERSAL BISHOPE HEAD of the CHVRCH This I trow should cause M. Iew. to be more calme and quiet consideringe that he shall not tary longe but haue the very Names brought furth which he craueth so much for But he must make somewhat of nothinge aud seeme to be a Winner before his aduersarie ioyne with him And therfore he
be broughte out of M. Iew. workes especially Pa. 250. 267. and. 286. But by what Primate Patriarche or high Bishop would he be ruled which putteth the Spirituall Gouernment of the Church in the handes of Temporall Princes and maketh euery Bishop the Vicar of Christ In such sort as if there were no higher or better person then he for Authority in all the world And therefore iâ— these poynts hitherto there wil be no hold or stay For Succession But perchaunce all thinges shal be determined by Succession Iew. 277. For Irenaeus sayeth Presbyteris illis c. We ought to obey the Bisâ—ops in the church that haue their succession from the Apostles which together with the succession of the Bishoprike haue receiued the certaine gifte of the Trnthe according to the will of the Father This in deede would serue if it were coÌ„sidered but M. Iewel liketh it not For in the next side before he saith of y c Pope c Against Succession THey Feast and cheare them selues Iew. 276. and Smothe the world with vaine talke But S. Ihon sayeth Nolite dicere c. Matth. 3. Neuer say Peter or Abraham was our Father S. Paule speaking of his Successors saith thus Act. 20. Equidem Scio. c. I know that after my departure from you there shall Rauening wolues come amongest you that shall not spare the flocke And S. Hierome sayeth Dist 40. NoÌ„ est fa. Non sunt sanctorum filij c. They be not euermore the Children of holy men that sit in the roomes of holy men But notwithstanding all these foresaide perplexities and doubtes at length I trow we shall come to some Resolution and quietnesse For the word of God and the scripture shall be the Iudge And yet here also is a great vncertainty For M. Iewel for the most part appealeth to y e expresse worde in the Scripture His Reply is full of his bragges therein and with suche faire promises the greater sort is seduced One example in a matter so manifest is sufficient As For the VVorde of God or Scripture SPeaking of the Scholemens conclusyons about Christes presence vnder the formes of bread and wine he sayeth We may not here accompt Iew. 99. what may be in either of them by drift of vaine fantasie but rather we ought to consider what Christ in the first Institution thereof did and what he commaunded to be done Here loe he refuseth to haue the sense discussed but sticketh to the bare text But it wil not be allwaies so as appereth by these Examples Against the VVorde of God or Scripture CHrist did not therefore so abase himselfe to washe his Disciples feete Iew. 117. to the intent they according to the letter should doe the same but in himselfe to shewe them a perfite Example of humility c. In like manner Math. 18 10. 8 Christ set a Childe before his Disciples and willed them all to be as Children He bad them to shake of the dust from their Shewes and to cary neither Rod nor Scrip about them and to salute no man vpon the way not that they shoulde practise these thinges according to the rigoure of the wordes but to the intent that by the same they mighte be induced to a deeper vnderstanding And S. Hierome sayeth Iew. 150. Whosoeuer vnderstandeth the Scriptures Hieron ad Gal. li. 3. ca. 5. otherwise then the sense of the holy Ghost requireth by whiche holye Ghost the Scriptures were wrytten although he be not yet departed from the churche yet he maye well be called an Heretike The sense rather and the meaninge of the Scriptures is to be taken Iew. 198. Orig. ad Ro. ca. 3. li. 3. Iew. 211. then the wordes To say The word of God only because it is wryten or spoken is auaileable of it selfe without vnderstanding is a Superstitious and Iewishe kinde of foly Let vs make nowe an end of this Chapiter for there is no ende of questionynge and altering as farre as is to be learned of M. Iewel And my Deduction or Argument is short When the Sonne of man commeth shall he fynde think you faith vpon the earthe Lucae 18. If the sense of the Scripture be the thing that is to be honoured and folowed And if that Seâ—se is not to be perceiued of euerye one that vnderstandeth the Grammatical construction and exposition of the wordes we muste learne it of some body biside our owne selues And they of whome we learne it must be suche as vpon whose Authority we may builde and neuer chaunge But neither by Fathers nor Councels nor Customes nor present state of Bishops nor by the texte it selfe of the Scripture that Authoritye can be established for by Maister Iewels accompte neuer a one of them dothe fullye satisfye in any mater ergo we are left vppon this reckening alltogether vnquiet and to seeking where to staye our Consciencies Is not this a perfecte Religion Or is not this a skilfull Professor of it by whome it is brought to passe that no Faithe at all can be appoynted vnto vs The Catholike yet may sone be in quiet For obeying that visible Churche of which the Pope is a visible heade he leaueth to the determination of it all thinges perteining to Councels Customes Fathers and Scriptures But these felowes that know not What to followe or forsake but by the Testimonye of Councels Customes Fathers c. and yet dare not fully trust those selfe same thinges or persons which are their guides what a miserable case are they in coÌ„cerning them selues and how Artificially doe they take Faithe cleane away in some and weaken it exceadingly in other BEWARE therefore of them by time Indifferent Reader And concerninge the stedfastnesse which should be of Faithe be not made alltogeather Indifferente throughe this laste and worste kind of M. Iewels Common Places Thus hauing declared euidently that M. Iewells greate boke in Quantitie is of simall matter in substance and that his Common places and Digressions are so many that his straite folowing of the question and his direct Answers to the purpose must be sone rekoned I trust the Indifferent Reader will BEWARE of him and not muche maruell at that Boâ—lke where litle Corne is sure to be found Nor thinke those vessels to be ful whose bourdes are longe and whopes of greate cumpasse Now to make his behauiour more plaine yet and manifest let vs come to certaine other Specialties and loke more particularly into his boke And firste it shal be worth the while to consider how M. Iewell hath ordered D. Harding In Peruerting his meaninge In disgrating his Authorities In Wranglinge with him In Dissimbling and butting with him In Refelling one truth by an an other And in Courteous as they say Reportinge of him Which ended I wilcome in y e third boke to other men as Auncient Fathers Later Doctours and so furth shortly prouing it vnto thee Indifferent Reader that M. Iewell hath
together If it were a matter of truth yet perhaps but a Dreame Doe not these the one playnly hynder the other Or can ye graunt y t one and feare the other Nay if it were of good Recorde and mater of trueth then vndoutedly it was no Dreame But you of a great confidence and courage doe permit vs the first And yet of a miserable forgetfulnesse or fearfulnesse are not resolued in y e second In sayeing If all were good Record you permit vs to take it and your selfe by puttinge the case doe graunte it In addinge Yet were it perhaps but a Dreame you take awaye from vs that whiche you graunted and your owne selfe are contraried by your selfe For to saye it againe if it were mater of truth it was no dreame and if perhaps it were A Dreame you should not then haue bene so absolute or bountifull as to let vs receaue it for a mater of Trueth It foloweth But one mans fact You asked but for any one sufficient example when you challenged vs. The fault therfore can not be in that it is One but if you dare answer that S. Basils fact alowed by Christ himselfe is not sufficient then say you somewhat It foloweth But once done Once done is truly done and so much is inough against theÌ„ which deny y â— it was at any time done Againe Once done in the presence of Christe and by hys apointement is for euer done to confirme the faith of the Catholikes I foloweth Not in the day tyme but at midnight What thinke you then M. Iewell that there is no Trueth when the Sunne is downe Or that euil Sprites only doe occupie the worlde at midnight Or that God is A God of the daye and not of the Nyghte Is not this A worthie cause to set losse by S. Basiles Masse for that wheÌ„ other were asleepe he waked And that Christe made him not tarie till brode daye but straite wayes to rise and Say Masse at midnight What fault you find with midnight I can not tel but your Literall sense in this place beinge so foolisshe either you haue some pure and fine Mysticall sense Or els you take so litle rest in the night that in the day time your wittes be not your owne It foloweth And that without cumpanie and without Witnesse Concerning the companie Christ and his Angels were present concerning the Witnesses take awaye Eubulus which saw it yet as many were present as were at the Annuntiation of our Ladie Or the Resurrection of Christ our Sauiour at whiche though no man was present yet by the euent of thinges and credite of theÌ„ which haâ—e reported it it is as true as an Article of our faith Againe what neede witnesses your selfe permitting the Recorde of Amphilochius to be good and the mater true How hangeth this together M. Iewell If all were true yet was it done without witneâ—se For what would you say I pray you meane you this that if it were true yet it was false Or if the Recorde were good yet is it not to be credited For to what other purpose ye complaine of lacke of witnesse I can not tell but for that you iudge the Recorde without it not to be good Otherwise if you will not plucke backe your Liberalitie nor take awaye that which you haue graunted but let it stand that the Record is good why disgrace you it by saying yet it was without witnesse And so by consequence no good Recorde Thus in this Testimonie also it appeareth what wisedome and Arte M. Iewel hath in defacing of Authorities and that after him selfe all circumstancies considered hath permitted them to stand for true and good D. Harding The viâ—â— Example out of S. Bede doth make reporte of one Iames a Deacon of Yorke a very cunning man in songe and of Cednom a Diuine maker of Dities Hard. fol. 88 90. whome M. Iewell calleth Cedname For so his name is reade in Beda writen in parchement saieth he forgetting him selfe that a sheepeskynne can be no more sufficient warrant â–ª of trueth then a calfeskinne but be it Cednom or Cednam what saieth he to hym Or to Iames the Deacon I litle thought M. Harding would so much haue bewrayed his want 18â— Blinde Harper to proue his mater by Pipers and Poetes Make you no more accompt of Musicians and Versifiers Many a Minstrel is in your Ministerie and many A Twanger vpon his harp A whome venerable Bede commendeth to the posteritie with singular praises are they but Pypers and Poetes with you Asaph Heman and IdithuÌ„ because they made and songe prayses vnto God might a sober Panyme call them Pipers and Poetes Iuuencus Sedulius Prudentius ought they to be of litle price or estimation because they were makers of Verses Cednom sayeth Bede made songes conteyning mater of the holy Scripture with such exceding sweetnesse and with such a grace that many feelinge theyr hartes compuncte and prickte with hearinge and reading of them withdrewe them selues from the loue of the worlde Speake not therefore M. Iewell againste the Grace of God And these sweete meanes whiche he hath prouided to allure men thereby to his Loue terme them not Pypinge or Poetrye Perchaunce if ye had some such pyper as Cednom was to syng and play before you when the Sprite trowbleth you there might be hope that you would be more quiete and reasonable Hope I say there might be but no assurance because sometymes you are so taken that I feare if Kinge Dauid hym selfe should play before you though you would not be so furious as to caste your speare at hym yet you would be so madly meryly disposed as to call him a Piper By these few Examples then lette it be tried whether M. Iewell hath folowed an honest fashion in his Replieng And whether it becummeth hym which would be compted vprighte in his Doâ—inges so to play the Childes the Womans the Madmans the Phrenetykes Or the Mynstrels parte in Toyinge in Iestinge in Imagyninge and in Harpinge so as he hath done about D. Hardinges Testimonies For what is there now lefte which may not be after M Iewels Rhetorike contemned If the Authoritie of suche as haue writen at any tyme these nyne hundred yeres be alleaged it is sayeth M. Iewel straitewayes out of the cumpasse of the first six hundred yeres If we bringe the Example of such as lyued solitarilie within those six hundred yeres Ye flee sayth he for ayde into Aegipt or ye hunt the Mountaines If the Example of populouse Cities far distant from vs be alleaged then ye goe saieth he A thowsand miles beyond Christendome If ye speake of their case which are nigh their death Alas saieth he ye begge at deathes dore If the Auncient Fathers S. Cyprian S. Basile S. Ambrose and others be brought in to confirme your purpose you must take heede that no mention in theyr testimonies be made of Boyes women Infantes Phrenetikes Cheastes Chambers wildernesse c For then al
directly to be considered The Answer of M. Iewell is this Princeps is often vsed for a man had in estimation for any Vertue Roome Or Singular Qualitie Ergo the Principalytie whiche S. Augustine attributeth to the Apostolike See consisteth not in Supreme GouerÌ„ment It woulde be ouer longe and tedious to teken vp all Examples by whiche I might euidently confirme this obiection of myne that Maister Iewell vseth the settinge further of one Trueth to the disgracinge or dissanulling rather of an other As when the Catholikes say to proue the Supremacie of the Bisshope of Rome Iulius restored Athanasius The .vij Example Iew. 290 M. Iewell Answereth Maximus also restored vnto him his Communion When they say The viij Example Touching faith and Religion the See of Rome hath alwaies bene consulted He Answereth Iew. 294 Marcellinus Dulcitius Bonifacius Euodius and other sent theyr questions to S. Augustine When they say The .ix. Example S. Peter was called Princeps or Chiefe of the Apostles He Answereth So we reed in Scriptures Princeps Familiae Princeps Legationis Princeps Coquorum that is the Chiefe of rhe house or stocke Iew. 302. the Chiefe of the Embassage the Chiefe of the Cookes When the Catholikes say The .x. Example S. Peter the Master of the whole world apointed S. Iames to be Bisshope of Hierusalem Iew. 303 He Answereth That vnto Michael is committed the nation of the Iewes But Land and Sea and all the habitation of the world is committed to S. Paule When they say The .xi. Example that Rome is the moste notable and chief Church of the worlde He Answereth that Cicero to blase the nobilitie of that Citie calleth lucem orbisterrarum atâ—ue arcem omnium GentiuÌ„ Iew. 304 the light of the world and the Castle of all nations To make an end when they say out of S. Ambrose The .xii. Example That Damasus the Pope is called the Rector and Ruler of the house of God To put the mater out of al doubt see what he answereth therevnto But to put the mater out of doubt let vs consider whether the selfe same forme of Speach Iew. 306 haue bene applied to any others in like sorte And then he telleth where other Bisshopes haue bene sayed to be Rulers in the Church But doth this kinde of Auswer either satisfie the Obiection Or Determine the Trueth Or quiet a doubtful minde Doth not this kinde of Reasoning bring vs rather into perplexities that it may not be knowen how to be resolued in any mater Is there any fitter waye for the Antichrist to worke by Antichrist high way for 〈◊〉 then by Forme and Phrases of Speache to confound all Faith and Religion Doe you beleue M. Iewel that Christ is the Sonne of God But doe you beleue that he is the natural Sonne of his Father of the same Substance Eternitie with him If you doe so in deede what say you to this Argument that Iudges in y e Scriptures are called Goddes Ex. 22 and that the frindes and Seruantes of God are called Goddes psal 81. Would this put the mater out of doubt that Christe is not the Sonne of God I meane by Nature because you coulde finde it oute after you had considered it where the selfsame form of speache is applied to others in like sort And where suche as are not the naturall Children of God are called yet the Children of God Christ saueth vs in Form of Speache S. Paule sayeth to Timothie Doeinge so thou shalt saue thy self 1. Tim. 4. and them that heare thee And would you conclude herevpon that the Power of sauinge is all one in them bothe because the Forme of the worde is all one Or that it is not properly and worthely veryfyed of Christe because it is but improperly attributed to S. Timothie Consider then I praie you M. Iewel whether this will put the mater oute of doubt if in Refelling the Sense of some one place whiche pleaseth you not you bringe a lyke Forme of Speache vsed in an other place And without further probation require to haue the vnderstandinge which your Aduersaie gathereth of his witnesse to be reformed accordinge to the meaninge of the Sentencies which you allege As because Princeps that is Chiefe is vsed in bothe places whether you say Princeps Apostolorum or Princeps Coquorum Therefore to conclude that the Chieftie of S. Peter Emonge the Apostles was no other thinge then the Chieftie of N. emonge the Cookes Beware therefore Christen Reader of M. Iewell And especially in those places whiche as they make moste for the Catholyke Faith so hath he no other refuge for sauinge hym selfe from Subscribinge vnto them but this very Simple one and Feeble to seeke where lyke Phrases may be founde of an other Sense yet and meanynge thereby to bringe in to doubt or as he supposeth to putre out of doubte that the Sense of the Catholykes Obiection can not contynue Whiche in fewe wordes is no other then to shewe hymselfe A Grammarian only And to destroie one trueth by an other as though One phrase might not haue two good Senses eche one agreeing with the place in which they are apointed to serue The sum of M. Iewels Argument is this The like forme or phrase of speache is to be found in an other sense Ergo to put the mater out of doubt this Present place of which the question is hath not a different or sundrie sense frome that other The Summe of my meaning is this that no man be deceaued through this kind of M. Iewels Answering wherein he so telleth one Trueth that he disswadeth an other This practise of the ProtestaÌ„tes hath already done harme inough let them beginne rather to amend theyr former iniquites then to adde fresshe vnto them They haue answered God must be worshipped in Spirite Which is most true and haue thereby taken awaie an other trueth that God is also to be worshipped with our body and bodily thinges They haue answered The true Fast is to abstaine frome Synne Whiche is vndoubteely True but by that faire shew of pure holynes they haue Destroied an other Trueth that Togeather with the fasting from synne we must also take paynes in our body and abstaine now and then from meate and drinke Thei haue Answered We must receiue the body of Christ by faithe which in some sense is most true But thei haue there withal taught the people not to beleue the Real presence of Christ in the Sacrament which presence yet is as true as the other is certaine In other cases moe they haue done the lyke It is to much that thei haue already done let them not therefore continue in this trade of Answering nor of dealing in maters of Religion Specially when thei bring the mater to Phrases of Speache and Signification of wordes and by one Sense take awaie an other whereas bothe in their seueral places doe agree with Truthe