reproach for a man to grow wiser it can be none for a man to see he was once mistaken This generation was engaged by you ere they could well consider things to your way and your oaths and then you strive to keep them alwayes in a non-age by telling them they must be stedfast and that it is a snare after vowes to make enquiry And what strange doctrine is it to tax an obedience to the Laws of the Kingdom when in our consciences we can so do as time-serving Nay perhaps as I hinted before you are the greater time-servers N. Well though I owe charity to your perâ—ons yet I owe none to your wayes and I call what â—s black black therefore I can never be reconciâ—ed to your Episcopacy C. This head falls asunder in two things The one is a general consideration of that Government The other is supposing it were as you think it how far you ought to separate from what is â—misse Now tell me what are your quarrels at Episcopacy N. I cannot think that Church-men should be called Lords and be great persons C. This belongs not to the thing it self but is an addition of the Christian Magistrates and Sir â—or Lord and Gentleman and Nobleman differ but in degree Since then a Minister were he never so meanly born gets the temporal honour of a Gentleman put upon him why may not the temporal honour of a Lord be as well put upon a Bishop surely this must not be considered by you N. But they should not Lord over Gods heritage therefore away with your Lord Bishop C. If you understand all Scriptures as you do this you may write excellent Commentaries for by Lording is meant a tyrannical domination as the word clearly imports and not a title Next Gods heritage which you apply to the Clergy is not in the Text. All in the Greek is not tyrannizing over your Lots or divisions and with whatever reason you put down Bishops from being as Noblemen that same will prove you Ministers ought not to be Gentlemen excepâ— they be born such and I sear your Leaders wiâ— have no minde to this N. But this is not all my chief quarrel againâ— Bishops is that they are a function of mans deâ— vising and no where instituted by God C. Truly you may speak soberly here for beâ— fore I meddle with this I will shew in a few things that however you talked bigly of jus divinum yet you minded it as little as any could Youâ— Lay-Elders though I deny them not to be a good institution are founded on no Scripture as noâ— the most judicious of your party own For wheâ— you urge that because the Apostle gives rules onâ— ly for Bishops and Deacons that the other ordeâ— of Diocesan Bishops must be shuffled out how aâ— that same time did you not see that ruling Elderâ— were not there and the places you alledge foâ— them are so abused that it appears you firâ— resolve to maintain them and next to seek Scripâ— ture-proof for them The Brethren in the Council of the Apostles proves too much that theâ— are judges of doctrine which yet you will noâ— own Beside it is absurd to think that was â— Church Judicature as shall soon appear Thaâ— of ruling with diligence is fond for there is madâ— an emuneration of Christian duties and if you makâ— an office for all there we shall I have more ranks oâ— Church-men then they of Rome have And it iâ— palpable that by helps and Governments are meantâ— some extraordinary Gifts Who would not pity men who build upon such sandy foundations N. But what say you to the Elders that rule well C. Truly this is far from instituting an office for this speaks of an office then in being so by some other place you must prove their institution There are five or six several glosses put on these words but I protest I think any of them appears more genuine then yours That which I conceive the true sense of the words is Let such among you as are fixt to rule particular charges be doubly honoured but especially those Evangelists who have no medling with rule but labour in word and doctrine Thus you see how â—ill grounded your Elders are Next how want you Deacons N. It seems you know our Discipline ill that know not we had Deacons C. I know very well you had somewhat called Deacons but this was only a name to deceive the people who otherwise might have been startled to have found Deacons in their Bibles and not in your Churches but I tell you your Deacons are â—o Scripture-deacons who were not as yours are Lay-persons but Ecclesiastick and separate by the â—mposition of hands for that function and so were â—o continue Beside where was it ever heard of â—hat a Church-office was taken from any without â— fault whereas you yearly altered your Elders â—nd Deacons Next why wanted you Diaconesses â—nce the Scripture is so particular about them telling of their order of their being received to it of their Qualifications of their Age and of their Imployment N. Truly I have heard many of our Ministers say the want of them was a fault C. Next why wanted you Evangelists since there are still men who have peculiar eminencies in preaching why should they be confined to one charge and not to be made to preach over a countrey as they shall be called N. That was an extraordinary thing which was in the dayes of the Apostles C. This is well asserted any thing in Scripture that makes for you call it ordinary and what doth not please you is extraordinary But truly since it is impossible to get a whole Church served with such a Ministery as were to be desired it seems to be necessary even in those dayes to have an office of Evangelists But further in what place of Scripture read you your classical Subordination of Sessions to Presbyteries c This I acknowledge is rational and orderly but founded upon no divine right N. How did they of Antioch send up to these at Ierusalem and are not the spirits of the Prophets subject to the Prophets C. By the last place it is clear he is speaking of Parochial Churches which subjection none deny but for the former it is ridiculous to urge it since it is certain they of Antioch sent not up to Ierusalem either as to a Church superior to it or as to an Oecumenick Council but to men there who were immediatly inspired by God as the Iews consulted the high Priest his Uâ—im and Thummim and if that was a Council then all Councils may speak in their stile which none but a Papist can say For to preface our acts with It seems good to the Holy Ghost and yet to say we are subject to error is a contradiction And thus the subordination of your Courts was a meer humane device so that if the jus divinum be the rule the Independants had the better of you But as for your
and the paying of Taxes And after the Tragical Catastrophe of the unlawfully called unlawful Engagement they barred the Nobility from their priviledges as Peers till they must be satisfied N. All that was done in order to Religion which is in the Churches care C. This is the very Plea of the Pope and indeed in Politicks the Pope and the Presbyterians agree in moe things than you think on By this Maxime all Civil matters must come under Ecclesiastical cognizance since every action can be reduced to one of the Tables of the Law But particularly to medle with War and matters of Blood hath been ever judged directly contrary to the Pastoral duty which obligeth to feed and not to kill But I shall add one thing more which was your Superstition N. I had resolved to have objected that to you and I am sure we cannot be guilty of it since there is nothing we hate more C. You know not the true notion of it and so are guiltier then you are aware of Superstition is an over-rating of things as if God were more pleased with them than indeed he is And therefore to lay too great weight upon any thing is superstition He then that judgeth a thing of it self indifferent to be necessary And he that condemns it as unlawful are equally superstitious It were a long and tedious story to let you see how great weight you laid upon many small matters both in doing and forbearing But I will leave particulars to your conscience and I protest in all I havâ— said I have no other design but to teach you noâ— to have mens persons or wayes too much in admiration N. You have now run out in a long and furiouâ— career against us hear me next reckon the excellent things were amongst us and I doubt not yoâ— shall confesse our good did far preponderat ouâ— evil C. I shall hear you with all my heart but in thâ— mean time let us take a little refreshment anâ— respite N. Be it so DIALOGUE II. â— NOw let us again resume our discourse and tell me what great goodnesse was it which â—o commended your party for I love what is good â—e where it will and therefore though I be none â—f your party yet I shall heartily rejoyce to hear â—ood of them N. I fear you are either so carnal as not to reâ—ish things that are spiritual or so byassed as not â—o set the due value upon us But who can doubt we were the people of God who remember how we bore down sin and wickednesse How much good preaching there was amongst us What ferâ—our was on peoples mindes when they heard Sermons What heavenly prayers we poured out to God But when I remember our Fasts and dayes of Communion my very heart breaks to think these sweet dayes are now gone Then what delight in Scripture had we that all our Vulgar were acquainted with it How well was the Sabbath observed amongst us And what order was there in Families morning and evening All this is now gone Alas for poor Scotland that had once the light of the Gospel so brightly shining in it But now ah ah for the darknesse that hath overspread it had you but seen what I saw your very heart would have been ravished with it C. Truly I expected to have heard some great matter from you of the self-denial contempt of the world resignation humility meeknesse patience obedience charity abstraction of minde and the other great heights of Christian Religion but you tell me only of their external devotion which how good soever it be yet is far from being the Character of a Christian since the very Pharisees were eminent in those things N. I told you you were carnal and savoured not the things of God you look after morality as the great matter but we look after true Christianity C. If by morality you mean the affecting a vertuous behaviour without a dependance on God and Christ I have as low an account of it as any can have but if by morality you mean a pure and holy Conversation I doubt it is the greatest and best part of Religion Without which the other parts are but hypocrisie and formality But I shall examine all these things which seem to knit your hearts so much to that way And shall begin with their diligence in repressing sin I confesse they had a kind of Discipline but it was wholly different from the rules of the Gospel and far short of the ancient Bishops discipline N. I see you undervalue every thing we did but I am sure you have no reason for it C. First then were not your Church-Sessions like Birla-Courts where every one came and complained of wrongs which belonged to the Magistrate for the Church should only meddle with sins as they are Scandals and not as they are injuries Next Dilations according to our Lords rule should not be received till the person be first privately admonished by the party offended next by two or three and if he be obstinat the Church should be told But you observed no such rule Next you imposed and exacted Fines which was the Magistrate's work whereas the Church should take no money but what is offered in Charity You also forced people to stoop to your Discipline for if they refused you threatned them with the temporal sword which by the unhappinesse of the times was too much at your dispose And this sheweth that you did not carry on the Gospel by a Gospel-spirit though that was ever in your mouthes but by secular wayes for offenders should come and offer themselves to Discipline and not be driven to it The time wherein your pennance lasted was also short the ancient Bishops did separate offenders as many years as you did weeks It is also clear you used Discipline to put a temporal shame upon offenders For you set them in a high place to be gazed upon whereas they should have been rather set without the doors of the Church And to conclude how wretchedly did you abuse this subjecting people to censure for your triffling matters when you knew they were acting a mock-penitence and were more zealous to preach against oppositions to your courses than against the oppositions to the everlasting Gospel N. Now you tax us for what we were very free of Was ever sin so boldly reproved as in our Pulpits Our Ministers sparing no rank nor quality C. I confesse some things I say not sins you reproved boldly enough not sparing the Lords Anointed whose pretended faults you like so many unnatural Hams were ready enough to publish when your so doing could have no other effect but to irritate his Subjects against him How often was that sacred Prince charged with Popery Tyranny and the Massacre of Ireland and that Royal Family termed the bloody-house yea after his accursed enemies had murdered him when common humanity should have oblidged you to let the dead alone and Christianity should have taught you to have had more
reverent thoughts of one who died so piously and devoutly yet you ceased not to persecute and tear his memorie which in spite of your malice will be glorious to all posterity and that with the height of insolence and barbarity in the very hearing and presence of his Son who now reigneth This was your bold reproving of faults But how little were you in secret reproving faults When you got to the Pulpit there indeed you triumphed because you knew none were to oppose you Now it is certain reproofs should be begun in private and not brought to publick but upon the obstinate rejecting of private admonitions And for what end were you often so bitter to absents This and such other things could be upon no other design but either maliciously to disgrace them or to get a following among your party and the name of faithfull free and zealous preachers N. You speak with very great heat and passion against better men then your self and better preachers than ever any of your way will be C. May be so I wish both they and their Gifts had been seven-fold better than they were but if I shall judge of them either by their printed Sermons or those I have heard they are no extraordinary things And first The half of their Sermons were upon publick matters and what did these concern the Souls of the poor people Was not this for bread to give them a stone Next for the solid practises of a Christian life I scarce ever heard them named except overly Whom heard you preach against the love of the world seeking of esteem quarrelling seeking of revenge anxiety and passion Vertue was little preached and far lesse practised N. I am sure we heard much spiritual Doctrine from them for these are common matters C. Read our Saviours Sermons particularly his longest upon the mount and you shall finde these to be the great subjects of his discourse I confesse they are common but remember the commonest things are often most usefull As for your spiritual Doctrine the true heights of spirituality were as little preached as the living much in abstraction silence and solitude the being often in the still contemplations of God and Christ the becoming dead to all things else spending dayes and nights in secret fastings and prayers how seldom were these things spoken of N. What then make you of them since you dâ— not allow them to be spiritual doctrine C. I shall not deny but they were spiritual buâ— I add they were of a very low size and degree anâ— such as could never carry on the Auditors to anâ— great perfection and most of them were practiseâ— by the Pharisees You know they read the Scripâ— ture and knew it so exactly as no Christians do their Bibles they observed the Sabbath severly they prayed many and long prayers So that these external things are but the fringes of true Religion N. We heard Christ and him crucified preached much C. It was well if ye did but let me tell you iâ— Christ was so preached as to cry up a bare relying on him without obedience to his Gospel as I fear too many did this was a very antichristianâ— way of preaching Christ. Next you got amongst you a world of nice subtilties which you called Cases of Conscience and these were handled with so metaphysical curiosities that I know not whatâ— to make of them And the people that should have been driven out of these into the great practices of a Christian life were too much flattered and humoured in them I am sure our Saviour and the Penmen of Scripture had no such stuff N. This still discovers your carnal heart God help you who understand not the wayes of the Spirit C. Never tell me of other wayes of the Spirit but holinesse charity and humility c. I do not deny but some devout people will be under doubtings and fears but this is a weaknesse which ought not to be fed and humoured in them and such scruples are to be satisfied in private But to hear people who lead but common lives talk of such things is unsufferable I shall not here take notice of their strange methods which they so much admired in preaching though I could tell you how our Saviour and the Apostles used none of these but I shall be sparing in this it not being of so great or necessary concernment N. O but what powerfull Sermons were theirs they made my very heart shake C. I am glad it was so but see that by power you do not mean a tone in the voice a grimace in the face or a gesture and action or some strange phrases these indeed affect the vulgar much but considering people see through them and value them little The voice of God was a still voice and Christ was not heard in the streets N. But there were many converted by the preachings and then there was a great love to the word people running far to hear it C. Truly I am so far from envy that I wish from my Soul where one was converted by you a thousand had been But see that by conversion you do not mean only a change in opinion or outward behaviour which might be done upon interest and remember that there was a kind of Proselytes even to the service of God who thereby became more the children of the devil than they were And see that you do not mistake every heaâ— in the fancie for a conversion one thing I muâ— challenge you of that you call alwayes youâ— preachings the word of God for to term them so and yet to confesse you may be mistaken in them is a contradiction since Gods word is infallible Your texts indeed are the word of God but youâ— glosses on them are but the words of falliblâ— men Now this was a great Art to conciliat â— hudge veneration and authority to your preachings for you called them the words of the Lord and applied all the places of Scripture that belonged to the inspired and infallible preachers unto your selves that so you might be Rabbies in deed N. I but their lives was preaching and theâ— looked like the Gospel indeed C. I am far from denying that there were verâ— good men among you and there are some of theâ— whom I know to have the fear of God before theiâ— eyes but I must say they seem to be little advanced above babes in Christ. For your greaâ— men how strangely did they involve themselveâ— in all businesses and truly a medling temper look not like a devout one but what great spirituality appeared amongst most of them Leaders oâ— Churches and parties should be alwayes commending God and Religion to people and truly hear there is little of this in their mouthes shrewd presumption that there is not too much oâ— it in their hearts N. Alas you know us not we seldom meet but we expound Scripture and have spiritual exercise amongst us C. I confesse you have enough that way but that looks more
artificial and formal but in your discourse how few of your words are seasoned with salt ministring grace to the bearers which is a more genuine and native and so a more convincing way of commending Godlinesse to people But what great things of devotion or holinesse appear amongst you who of you despise the world give away your goods to the poor who bear injuries without resentments and revenge who are willing to be set at nought who are mortifying themselves even in the lawfull pleasures of sense who bear crosses without murmurings and for the devotional part who of you seem to live only to God and consecrat your time and strength to divine exercises truly these things are as little among you as any party â— know nay one thing I cannot passe by that you generally seem so desirous of being noticed iâ— your Religion this is far from our Saviour practice N. This is all your prejudicat opinion againâ— us but had you been ever with us at our Communions you would have been forced to confesâ— that God was amongst us C. I never denied it for I am far from being â— hidebound as to affix God to a party as you to confidentlie do But for your Communions I aâ— not like to be much convinced by them I cannâ— like your running so many miles to them this â—umultaurie and disorderlie for if it be the Sacrament it self you value you may have it neareâ— hand but this shews you idolize men too much â— Next at your Communions all your businesse iâ— to hear and talk whereas the truest preparation for that work is an inward stillnesse and recollection of mind and certainly much talk at that time particularly in the very action it self doth buâ— draw out and disturb the mind and by reason oâ— your crouds you cannot have occasion of such retirement as is necessary at so solemn a time And to speak plainly I cannot think persons very devout who love rather to hear one talk were it never so good purposes than to retire inwardly and commune with their own hearts and with God Some of you will be many hours in publick worship and perhaps not a quarter of an hour in secret devotions It would look likeâ— Christ to be many hours secret in prayer and very short in publick N. I see nothing among us pleaseth you but we are never the worse for all that C. Truly I cannot admire what I judge but simple and mean But another fault about your Communions was that you had them so seldom against the expresse practice of the Apostles who continued daily breaking Bread and the whole Church in all ages and places were frequent in this which you brought to once a year And who taught you to separate it from the rest of the solemn worship and not have it every Lords day N. That was that by the unfrequency of it it â—ight be the more solemn C. Then at length you confesse you use your â—wn devices to make the worship of God more â—lemn But it had been much liker the Apostles â—o have celebrate frequently but withall to have â—oticed well such as did receive N. Did you never observe the great devotion â— our worship C. Truly I am sorry I saw so little of it what â—rreverence is it that when prayer is in the â—hurch most of you â—it on your breeches is this â—o approach unto God with the reverence beâ—omes dust and ashes notwithstanding of the exâ—resse command of Scripture O come let us worâ—hip and bow down and kneel down before the Lord â—ur Maker and you cannot say this was one of Moses rites N. God looks not to the outward man it is â—he inward bowing and kneeling of the soul he regards and it is your superstition to stand much â—t these outward things C. But we are commanded to glorifie God as â—ell with our bodies as with our spirits And â—ow unhandsome is it that we will not testifie that reverence to God we would shew to a man were â—he but a few degrees above us beside you who alwayes call for Scripture ought quickly to be convinced here most Scripture-prayers being â—aid either to be in that posture or in that which comes next in reverence to it to wit standing Our Saviour kneeled when he prayed to the Father St. Paul both at Miletus and Tyre kneeâ— ed down and prayed with the people though â— Tyre it was upon the shore a pretty inconvenieâ— place for kneeling You know how much Scriâ— ture I can bring for kneeling or standing N. But it is written David sate before thâ— Lord and prayed C. But is not this strange that you will brinâ— one practice and follow that rather than the coâ— stant and universal practice registrated in Scriptureâ— Beside the word there doth not import that hâ— sate but rather that he sifted himself before thâ— Lord. And then you do not consider that prayeâ— was private and it is undoubted more solemnitâ— is necessary in publick than in the private worship Why then do you not kneel or stand in Churchesâ— since you do so in secret and in your Family-worâ— ship and why not as well if not rather in the one nor in the other truly this bewrayes both greaâ— weaknesse and great irreverence And beside thâ— irreverence of that wretched posture of â—itting it is so convenient for your ease that we see moâ— sold themselves to sleep in the prayers and sucâ— as do not so seem to listen to the prayer as theâ— do to the Sermon without thinking they are tâ— joyn in it And indeed to fit is so grosse an abusâ— in prayer unlesse some bodily infirmity imposâ— it that I rather not see you come to our Churchâ— es than come to them thus to give a bad example N. But since you named Family-worship take but notice what order was amongst our Families they looking like little Churches Our Masters of Families praying praising and expounding Scripture with their Families what was not this a heavenly thing C. I do approve of a part of it and think it a pious and a Christian custome to have Families worshipping God together providing the way of it be grave and regular of which I shall speak afterwards But for Masters of Families their expounding Scripture it is intollerable unlesse they be very intelligent persons How patent a way otherwise may this prove for venting and broaching errours and heresies but I would not have you value this too much Otherwise I shall send you to the religious houses in the Church of Rome where they have worship seven hours a day in a word those external things make not men good of themselves N. But I hope you will not condemn private meetings especially when a Minister is with us for spiritual conference C. Truly the thing in it self looks fair and well but since these secret assemblings have been much scandalized since also they may be a cloak for hatching mischievous practices and for debauching peoples minds
than you will grant that all particulars must be determined since then as Moses determines the dayes of separation for a legal uncleannesse why doth not the Gospel determine the separation â—oâ— spiritual uncleannesse Nay further consider Moses instituted no Church-Government in the way we use it for that of the Tribe of Levi and house of Aaron was only Typical and to wait on the Temple and the Worship to be performed there Beside which they had Synagogues all the Land over and wherever they had Colonies in the World and in these they had their Rabbies their Scribes and their Rulers and their chief Ruler of their Synagogues which read their Law performed such Worship as was not tyed to the Temple at Ierusalem and they inflicted Discipline upon offenders and these might have been of any Tribe not only of that of Levi and yet our Saviour never challengeth this but went in to the rulers of their Synagogues the like you finde done by his Apostles and they never declame against it as an humane invention Whence it must follow that you must grant either what they did was founded on divine tradition which no Christian will grant or that a form of Government was devised by men and yet no unlawful thing And if the Jews had such liberty certainly the Christian Church is at least more free as to these externals And after all since Christ is the Head of the World as well as of the Church why did not he determine the order of the one as well as of the other N. The odds is very great for his Church is dearer to him than all the world C. Why then doth he not determine how his Church should be governed as to the civil matter since Justice is a part of his Law as well as devotion and the civil peace I hope you will grant is more necessary to the very being of the Church than is order in Discipline and so it was determined in the old Law but yet it is left at liberty in the new And though I should grant the Church as Church is dearer to Christ then as they are men a foolish and childish nicety Yet a King though he looks most to what is dearest to him he will have his authority acknowledged in all his dominions whence it will with the same parity of reason follow that since Christ is the King of the earth there should be no Offices in it but of his appointment N. I never loved this carnal reason it is an enemy to Religion Our Ministers bring us to the Bible for every thing they say but you come on with your reason C. Truly you have good cause to be against reason for it and you cannot both prevail If by carnal reason you mean a sober examining things by the dictates of Nature see that you condemn not that which is indeed the voice of God in us and therefor is to be received And if you make this contrary to Religion you bring as great a stain upon Religion as an Atheist could devise But if by reason you mean little pittiful nibling with some ill understood and worse applied distinctions out of Aristotle and Ramus as is very frequent among you that is justly called vain Philosophy And for Scripture do not think they build surest upon it who are ever quoting it fastest the Devil did that and so do all Sects And thus if you can rightly weigh things I have said enough to convince you that in matters of Government the Church is at liberty But if you will still go to Scripture I can positively say though in it nothing amounts to a demonstration There are fairer likelihoods for Bishops from that of the Angels of the Churches than ever you shall find in it for Presbytery but I will not say more of this Next let me tell you how soon this Government was in the Church N. I will not deny tares sprung very early in Gods Husbandry but that will never convince me To the Law and to the Testimony for from the beginning it was not so C. You do well to possess your self with a prejudice against these Churches but think soberly whether is it likelier that those who lived so nigh the sacred time understood the mind of the Apostles better then we do at the fagg end of an thousand and six hundred years As also whether is it liker that the Church then alwayes in the fire of persecution was purer then she is now God bless me from the pride of comparing my self with these worthies who were honoured to convert the world and to die for the truth N. But Bishops were not in the two first Centuries as our Ministers say C. They are grossly ignorant or disingenuous who say so all History being against them Ignatius Epistles are plain Language The Apostolical Canons a work of very venerable antiquity at least the first 50 of them though none of theirs perhaps all over shew the difference was then betwixt Bishops and Presbyters particularly the 40. Can. The Presbyters and Deacons shall finish nothing without the Bishop's sentence For he is intrusted with the people of God and shall be required to give account of their souls And the same thing was also enjoyn'd Syn. Azel Can. 19. And in Cyprian's time it is undenied that their power was then well regulate and settled For though that great Saint and Martyr tells lib. 3. Epist. 10. That he had decreed in the beginning of his Bishoprick to do nothing without the advice of his Presbyters yet Ep. 9. of that book to Rogatian a Bishop who had asked his advice concerning an affront he had received from a Deacon he sayes that by his Episcopal vigour and authority of his Chair he had power presently to punish him And towards the end of that Ep. he sayes these are the beginnings of Hereticks and the rise and designs of Shismaticks to please themselves and contemn their Bishop with insolent pride And it is clear Presbyters at that time even in the Vacancy of a See did not judge themselves sufficiently impowred for Ecclesiastical administration by what the Presbyters and Deacons of Rome write to Cypr. lib. 2. Ep. 7. saying That since a Bishop was not at that time chosen in place of the deceased Fabian there was none to moderate all things amongst them who might with authority and advice take account of matters Sure they thought little of Presbyters being equal in power to their Bishop who write so of a Church wherein the Episcopal power might seem devolved on them But I believe few of you know these Writings In the Council of Nice speaking of the power of Metropolitans which was an additional thing to that of Bishops over Presbyters The Canon sayes Let the ancient Customs be in force Now how this excressing power should have crept into the whole Church and no mention when it came in no temporal Princes nor universal Councils to introduce it and that at a time of