Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	book_n	church_n	tradition_n	5,140	5	9.1021	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A49441	A treatise of the nature of a minister in all its offices to which is annexed an answer to Doctor Forbes concerning the necessity of bishops to ordain, which is an answer to a question, proposed in these late unhappy times, to the author, What is a minister?	Lucy, William, 1594-1677.	1670 (1670)	Wing L3455; ESTC R11702	218,889	312

the power of it by Jesus Christ to obtain Mercy to whom he remains knit by his Baptism Again he urgeth It is the greatest punishment the Church can inflict I answer The greatest Excommunication is the greatest punishment but neither man nor men have power to sever that member from ●hrists body which he hath joyned Again Bellarmine Excommunication cannot be to any but Contumaci●us and Incorrigible Sinners because they will not hear the Church I answer what follows but that they who now are Contumacious anon at another time will be humble ●ast of all he urgeth In Absolution the phrase is Restituo te I restore thee to the unity of the Church and participation of members I answer he might have added what follows by way o● Explication in their forms of Absolution and to the Communion of the faithfull A man is restored to the full enjoying his union his membership by such a Communion which he had not before but only an union So now I think it appears if you apprehend the Church as a body natural Excommunication is an Obstruction which stops many Influences with which both head and members Communicate but not union If you apprehend the Church a political body Excommunication is a Suspension from City powers and priviledges untill some satisfaction but Conditional not an absolute annihilation of his Charter and this will appear out of that Phrase of St. Paul in the Chapter urged by Bellarmine 1 Cor. 5. 5. Deliver such a man to Sathan for the destruction of the Flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus so that it seems by this Excommunication is a sharp Physick for the good of that man to make him ashamed to humble him for his correction not destruction and it appears again by his restitution which is only an Absolution not a new engra●●ing or an Absolution by a new readmission not a new Incorporation and this answers all the Objections that I have read either in Bellarmine or in any other SECT IV. Such as renounce the fellowship of the Church are members I Must now addresse my self to Hookers second Objection which is That such as renounce the fellowship of the Church though they have true Baptism yet are not ●●embers of the Church By this renouncing I think he means professing against it or let it be what it will turning Turk renouncing Christ he is yet a member he retains his true Baptism for by Baptism a man is accepted a Child of God and no more than he who renounceth his Father doth by that Act make himself not his Son no more can he unchild himself by any of these Actual oppositions Here in this he only sets down his Conclusion but brings no Argument for proof I will hunt them out amongst the School and Jesuites and clear the Truth as perspicuously as I can Cardinal Bellarmine in his 3d. Book De Ecclesià militante Cap. 4. handles this Question under this Title Whether Hereticks and Apostates which are baptized be parts and members of the Church He denyes it His fi●st Argument against it is drawn from Scripture 1 Tim. 1. 19. where it is said That some concerning faith have made shipwrack Where saith he by the metaphor of shipwrack he understands Hereticks who one part of the Ship being broken is fallen into the Sea ●or Answer I grant them to be Hereticks and Apostates I grant the Church their Ship I grant them in the Sea ready to perish yet even when they are there they belong to the Ship and perhaps were principal members of it not in it but of it and therefore read the next verse of whom were Hymeneus and Alexander whom I have delivered unto Sathan that they may learn not to blaspheme This great Pilot took care of them as members of his ship and endeavoured their recovery which was a sign they were still in union with the Church But saith he this is signified by the parable of our Saviour Luke 5. of the Net which was broken by the multitude of Fishes That word Parable slipt from the Cardinal un●dvisedly It was a real Story but the learnedest man in the world may let slip such an Expression But why any such sence should be forced on that Story I know not but only that such a Thing was done and if such a sence were granted it yields no more but that some men are slipt out of the blessing of the Church when they are ready to come to the shore even to Heaven But he urgeth further Titus 3. 10. A man that is an Heretick after the first and second Admonition reject Vers. 11. knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being condemned of himself Now saith he if this Heretick were in the Church Titus would not have been commanded to reject him but exhort him I answer Reject him for a time for his Conviction to amendment as became a Carefull ●astor and a loving Father who intends the good of his Children by withholding Temporary favour for a season that so his Son may be ashamed and shame breed an Amendment Bellarmine adds out of St. Hier●me that he is not put out of the Church but puts himself out I grant it out of that glorious Communion and participation of Heavenly mysteries which belong to men of right faith and manners But he addes another place out of the 1 of John 2. 19. They went out from us but they were not of us which he expounds out of St. Augustine That they went out of the Church but if they had been of the Church by Election they would not have gone out from us I am sorry to read so learned a man forget himself I am sure in another Controversie he would not allow this Exposition nor can I allow it in this for without doubt many Elect do go out of the visible Church understand Election in the most rigid way they do go out and come in again that cannot be the right exposition therefore If you would have my sence of it we may observe that in the preceding verse the Apostle speaks of many Antichrists of these he saith that they went out of us that is out of the Communion with us now saith he they were not of us that is when they went out from us it may be they had been before but then they were grown to a defiance of us for if they had been of us they would not have gone out from us if they had had the same Principles they would not have left us This I Conceive the sence of this Text and indeed I know not whether any man hath given it this Exposition Those which I have looked in have given me no satisfaction of what Religion soever Now let us see what concerns this Text and perhaps will serve to Illustrate other Doubts The difficulty will be in this phrase to be of us that is our Society that may be diverse wayes in respect of that Inward Thing which

by Divine Apostolical institution so it is reasonable to conceive it may add something Ecclesiastical to that which is Divine so it be not destructive to the foundation of which nature I shall show there is somewhat in this Canon For the Book which was imposed on the head and shoulders of the Bishop to be Consecrated is the Book of the Gospel or four Evangelists Now it is impossible that that Ceremony should be necessary because what is necessary to any thing must agree to all of that kind which this cannot because there were Bishops when this Book was not written yea when not one of the ●ospels were written this therefore cannot be essential to the Consecration of a Bishop which must needs follow his Consecration this Argumenr is taken notice of by divers although not in this ●ase but in that which concerns a Deacon where the Book of the Gospels is delivered at his Ordination to the Deacon and by most of the Church of Rome is made the matter essential to that Ordination as they call it or as we the outward sign of it you see this Argument which they are pinched with Let us consider how they shift from it Vasques in his 238 Disp. Cap. 4. Number 43. and Ochogamia in his Book of Sacraments in his title of Orders Cap. 4. out of him affirmed that this Order of Deacons as well as is evident of Bishops was before the Gospels were written and they were then ordained without that Ceremony but by a Dispensation of Christ that is Ochogamia's Phrase but Vasques by a Commission of his the Phrase doth not materially differ with these kind of shifts any thing may be affirmed can they shew any the least word in the New Testament intimating any such probability a dispensation must be upon a former Law there could be no Law made to ordain with giving Gospels before either all or any of them were written and it is most evident that none of them were writ when the first Bishops were made Gasper Hurtado goes therefore another way to work and although he grants that at first they were ordained only by the imposition of Hands yet he saith that it is probable that afterwards Christ instituted that when the Gospels were writ they should be delivered to the ordained it is an easy thing to say it is probable but he should give a reason why we should think it reasonable I have reason to think that when the Gospels do abundantly deliver to us such things which are necessary for us to know concerning the will of Christ and there is no such thing in the Gospels and they would be of great ease to the satisfaction of such men as expect to receive Divine blessings from some men in holy Orders It is necessary that they should have some means chalked out to them by which they might be assured that these are such hands by which they expected those blessings are promised to be given them but above all others I wonder at Henricus Henriques who is so bold in his sum of moral Divinity Lib. 1● Cap. 8. Tit. 1. in his Comment to affirm that probabilius videtur quod in primitiva Ecclesia dabatur Diacono charta in qua continebantur Mysteria fid●i quae habentur in Evang●lio which is that it seems probable that in the primitive Church there was given to the De●con som● paper in which were contrived written the Mysteries of Faith which are in the Gospel He saith it seems so I would ask to whom it seems so certainly to no man living fifteen hundred years after and upwards nor did ever any man say he saw any such Scripture nor heard of it before It cannot therefore seem probable to any man for sure such a Scripture would have given a Glorious light to many other Doctrines which now lye in darkness I therefore love occandus for a clear and ingenious con●ession in this point who in quartum sententiarum ●ist 24. Proposition 1. Page 83. saith thus Contra hoc est unum Argumentum cujus solutionem fateor me nescire gaudenter libentur ignorabo Against this Conclusion which is that the delivery of the Book should be essential to the Order of a Deacon against this there is one Argument whose answer I know not and am chearfully and willingly ignorant of And then he urgeth this Argument of mine and shews that even St. Mathews Gospel who was his tutelar Saint was not writ when Deacons were instituted he calls him Pater meus Spiritualis this ●s it was honest so it was ingenious and then he quotes Durandus rightly in Quartum Dist. 24. Quest 3. who agrees with me much in my opinion conce●ning this matter and saith that in the Arician Diocess where he was Bishop this Ceremony of the Book was never used so that there is neither Scripture for it nor any universal Tra●ition and therfore hath no strong ●ound●tion the chiefest argument that ●ives me any consideration is that Canon of the fourt● Councel of Carthage of which I spake before where in express terms the use of the Book of the Evangelists is enjoyned in the ordination of a Bishop but doth that follow it is therefore necess●ry essentially I think I have writ before that it is reasonable to think that Eminent Councell consi●●ing of 200. and odd Bishops many of them as eminent for learning and piety as the world h●d we may justly think that such a Councel would omit no essentially mater●all circumstance but that it should add nothing to the Apostolical Canons is not reasonable and this might now be because now that Book was extant which ●t the first in the Apostles time was not so that I am confident that such who lived in obedience to that Church ought to observe it there being no opposition to the essential part but indeeed rather an explication of it and yet I may say that the Church of Rome did not doth not observe the manner of using the ●ook there enjoyned for as Hu●tado difficultate decima de ordine olim saith he heretofore the Book was not imposed by Bishops as that Canon requires but by Deacons and now by the Bishops ●hapl●ines for the use of the Book was impossible to be Apostolical as it is before proved it may be used and ought to be when ordained in a well governed and setled Church but it is not essential to the Ordination or Consecration CHAP. XIII In which what is essential to this Consecration is set down THus having removed the principal Rubbige which might impede my structure I come now to lay my foundation concerning the Building first then let us conceive that what is essential must be Apostolical and what is so may probably be thought to be essential for although it is a most assented Conclusion that the Sacraments which conveigh Grace must be of Divine Institution of which Nature they make Orders I contend not about words and the Apostles were instituted with full authority

seated in the Apostles and none else from those words As my Father sent me so send I you and therefore they had power to settle Offices for the Church as they pleased and there is no Office which had not its foundation from them so that although this question be often handled under these Terms whether Bishops be a distinct Order Jure Divino yet they that hold it Affirmatively must defend it with this phrase Apostolico Divino Apostolical by such a Divine Right not as if Christ immediately instituted it for he instituted none but the Apostles as we read of for the whole World but by such a Divine Right as Christ gave his Apostles power to Institute and they did institute Thirdly Let us Conceive that although perhaps there can be found no Law or Decree by either one or more Apostles which shall in expresse Terms say that by the Authority given us we do erect and institute such an Office for such Registers as I have said we have not yet when it shall appear to be the Apostles practice to ordain such Officers so qualified we may be Confident it was not without Authority for men of such Exemplar obedience and humility even to death would not in their practice act without Law and Authority Fourthly That where any place of Scripture that directs our Practice shall abide a double Interpretation because Quisque abundat sensu suo there the doctrine and practice of such men who were Apostolical conversed and lived with those Apostles themselves must needs be the best Glosse upon such a Text because as it is reasonable to think that they should best understand the Apostles meaning for when Laws are newly made their sense likewise how they should be understood is fresh in mens apprehension but Laws antiquated or grown old must be intrusted to the letter so likewise it is most reasonable to think that they could not write or do amisse in these publike Acts or Writings without Controll and therefore certainly it must needs be the best Comment when the Text abides a doubtful Interpretation to shew that the Apostles disciples which Conversed with them did so understand them Fifthly That the preheminence that I place in a Bishop over a Presbyter consists in these two things The power of giving these Orders which a bare Presbyter hath not and secondly The power of Jurisdiction over such as are only Presbyters of the lower rank These Truths being granted as they must without impudence I addresse my self to the Question wherein I can Complain for lack of mine Adversaries books for such as write for the Opinion I professe I care for none the Scriptures and Antient Fathers which I have by me serve my turn but I have their Hooker and I shall I think in re●utation of his Arguments discusse most of that matter which is necessary to this Question if I find any thing unhandled which is necessary to this Question I shall treat of it afterwards SECT V. Mr. Hooker undertaken in this Controversie FOR their Hooker he undertakes this Controversie Part 2. Chap. 1. pag. 22. in which he wastes that Page and the 23d upon a bitter invective distinction of a three-fold Bishop Divine Humane and Sathanical and his description of them which I let alone as impertinent ●roth and Fury of a man that is angry not charitable and as one inquisitive after truth disputing but Page 24. he comes to some sober dispute and to bring reasons against this Vsurped Order as he calls it which I undertake at this present His ●irst reason is as he saith the expresse Testimony of Scripture than which nothing can be more pregnant Titus 1. 5. 7. he only Ciphers out the place I will put down the words For this cause left I thee in Creet that thou shouldest set in order the things which are wanting and Ordain Elders in every City as I had appointed thee then verse 7. For a Bishop c. Now saith he the Apostle having enjoyned his Scholar to Appoint Elders in every City and how they must be qualified he adds ●he reason of his Advice For a Bishop c. Where the Dispute of the Apostle shews not only the Community of the Name but likewise the Identity of the Thing signified thereby otherwise his Argument had not only been a false reason but false in form having four Terms but in truth had not reasoned at all for it had been ready to reply here is a Gap as if the Copy had been imperfect but may easily be made up thus a Bishop is another thing from Presbyter SECT VI. His expressions very unhandsome I Will examine this Discourse and see how partial his expressions are to trouble the Truth First he disparageth Titus with although a true yet a diminishing Term He calls him St. Pauls Scholar only St. Paul in the 4th verse calls him his Son yea his own Son after the Common Faith and the Postscript or Direction is to Titus ordained the first Bishop of the Cretians Secondly He diminisheth likewise that phrase which is of great force to this purpose that is the phrase to ordain Elders he saith to appoint Elders Thus when they Cipher Scripture for the most part Scripture is abused and the heedlesse Reader swallowes in a Misconstruction before he is aware thus having examined his misrepeating the Story in things of importance we will sift his Arguments SECT VII His Argument examined THE force of it is this that there a Bishop and Elder are one thing as well as name I grant it for this dispute but let us see what will result out of it no more but this that in the Apostolical Age this name of Bishop and Presbyter was used for one Office the name Apostle was that which was used for the Superiour Dignity which as I shewed before out of Theodoret when I treated of the Name Apostle that in their Time many were called Apostles which were none of the Twelve but afterwards to avoid Confusion and an Indistinction betwixt the Original Apostles and the Derivative for such as were made by men the Church used this name of Bishops and reserved the Name of Apostle to those men who were so Constituted by our Saviour and that one who was made by Election of Lott into Judas his place So we find diverse phrases not used to such purpose in the New Testament yet prevailed with the Succeeders of the Apostles in such a manner as they gained a Constant use among Ecclesiastical Writers such is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 amongst the Grecians and Sacerdos amongst the Latines words not used for any Order in the Church of Christ any where in the New Testament and yet amongst the Ancients are used for the whole Order of Priesthood as it includes Bishops and sometimes for Bishops alone but as they are the superiour Order in that sort of men and in the latter Age are solely appropriated by the use of Writers to that Order which the Scriptures and the