was impossible who hath bestowed so great grace vpon vs. S. Siluester as Nycephorus hath recorded speaketh thus of baptisme e Lib. 7. hystor cap. 33. This water hauing receiued by the inuocation of the blessed Trinity heauenly vertue euen as it washeth the body without so doth it within cleanse the soule from filth and corruption and make it brighter then the Sunne-beames So that it is most conformable both vnto the holy Scriptures and the auncient Fathers to affirme and hold that the Sacraments doe really contayne and convay the graces of God into our soules as his true and proper instruments OF SAVING FAITH M. PERKINS Page 305. HEre followeth a Chapter which for the most part doth nothing but repeate points of doctrine which hath beene particularly handled in the questions of Iustification Satisfaction and Merits and aboue twenty times touched by the vvay in his booke therefore a tedious and loathsome thing it is to me here againe to heare of them yet because the man thinketh that in these points the principall glory of the newe Gospell consisteth and that there fore they are alwayes to be inculcated in season and out of seasorr I vvill briefly runne them once more ouer shewing as he doth only vvherein we differ without repeating the arguments which are to be seene in their proper places To come to the matter he putteth downe fiuâ— conclusions The first conclusion The Catholikes teach iâ— to be the property of faith to beleeue the whole word of God and especially the redemption of mankinde by Christ M. PERKINS DIFFERENCE THey beleeue indeede all the written word of God and more then all for they beleeue the bookes Apocryphall and vnwritten Traditions Answere Touching vnwritten Traditions see that Chapter in the first part M. PER. saith here Because they come to vs by the handes of men they cannot come within the compasse of our faith Then I say vpon the same ground the vvritten word cannot come within the compasse of our beleefe because it also commeth vnto vs by the handes of men And as the Apostles and their Schollers are to be credited when they deliuered the vvritten word vnto vs for Gods pure word so are they to be beleeued vvhen they taught the Church these poynts of Gods vvord vnwritten to be embraced as the true word of God although not written but committed to the harts of the faithfull And when we haue the testimony of auncient Councels or of many holy Fathers that these points of doctrine vvere by Tradition deliuered vnto the Church by the Apostles vve as firmely beleeue them as if they were written in the holy Scriptures For which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall vvhich not and what is the true meaning of hard places in Scripture we knowe no other way of infallible certainty then by the declaration of the Catholike Church which we therefore aswell beleeue telling vs these thinges were deliuered from the Apostles by Tradition as those thinges in vvriting And that such credit is to be giuen to the Catholike Church the Apostles Creede witnesseth which biddeth vs beleeue the Catholike Church Nowe touching those bookes of holy Scripture vvhich vvere some hundreth yeares after Christ doubted off by some of the auncient Fathers vvhether they were Canonicall or no thus we say That albeit it were vndetermined by the Church vntill S. Augustines time vvhether they were Canonical or no and so were by diuers auncient Fathers though not condemned as Apocryphall yet not comprehended vvithin the Canon of assured Scriptures notwithstanding that matter being in a Councell holden at Carthage where among many other learned Bishops S. Augustine vvas present throughly debated Concil Cartag 3. cap. 47. those bookes doubted off before were found by the holy Ghost and them to be true Canonicall Scripture and afterward vvere by the sixt generall Councell that confirmed this Councell holden at Carthage declared and deliuered to the whole Church for Canonicall Nowe as we receiued at the first the other bookes of Canonicall Scripture on the â—â—edit of the Catholike Church euen so ought vve to doe these shee hauing declared them to be such yea the Protestants themselues haue admitted many bookes of the newe Testament vvhich vvere doubted off for three hundred yeares after Christ why then doe they not as vvell receiue them of the old The difference betwixt vs is that they only of passion and priuate fancy admit these and reject those vvhereas vve of obedience relying vpon the judgement of the vvhole Church admit those bookes for Canonicall which the Catholike Church hath declared for such And thus much of the first conclusion Nowe to the second touching saluation by Christ alone wherein the Protestants either cannot vnderstand or will not report our doctrine aright We confesse that Christ IESVS hath merited the redemption and saluation of all mankinde yet say we further that not one man is saued through Christ vnlesse he for his owne part first beleeue in Christ if he be of yeares and be content to doe all those thinges that Christ hath commanded vs to doe so that to saluation two thinges are required the first and principall is Christes mediation the second is the applying of Christes mediation and merits vnto vs vvithout this latter the former will stand no man in steede Nowe to be made partaker of Christs merits we must not only beleeue in him as the Protestants teach but also keepe his commandements and by good workes deserue heauen otherwise according to Christs decree we shall neuer come thither as in the question of Merits hath beene plentifully proued out of the holy scriptures so we teach then that besides Christs sufferings and merits we must haue some of our owne or else vve shall neuer be partakers of Christes And M. PERKINS cannot be excused from a vvilfull corruption of Gods word when he affirmeth S. Paul to say We are not saued by such workes as God hath ordayned men regenerated to walke in for those be not the wordes of the text but his peeuish construction S. Paul putting a playne distinction betweene workes that we are not saued by and workes that we must walke in calling these later good workes and the other barely workes To the other text I say that we haue no righteousnesse of our owne strength or by the vertue of Moyses lawe but through the mercy of God and Christs merits we haue true righteousnesse giuen vs by baptisme Christ indeede by himselfe and his owne sufferinges not by sacrifice of Goates or Calues hath meritoriously washed away our sinnes that is deserued of God that they should be washed away but formally he hath washed away our sinnes by infusion of Christian righteousnesse into our soules He that will see more of this let him reade the question of Iustification And where as M. PER. saith that all grace of God powred into our hartes is by the corruption of our hartes defiled he little knoweth the vertue of Gods grace vvhich so cleanseth and purifieth
vers 12. considering his owne frailty Marry very good hope and confidence ought we all to haue in respect of Gods infinite mercy and goodnesse and in the inestimable merits of our Lord and Sauiour IESVS Christ but by faith we cannot beleeue it vnlesse God doe extraordinarylie reueale any such thing vnto vs which he doth to very fewe of his best beloued and best tryed seruants In the matter of our difference he saith first That we teach not faith to be a knowledge of thinges beleeued but a reuerent assent vnto them whether they be knowne or vnknowne But this he saith very vntruly for we hold faith in his owne nature to comprehend a certayne kinde of knowledge though not so cleare and euident yet of as great assurance as is the knowledge of naturall thinges but the man harpeth vpon something else if he could hitte on it We say indeede that it is not of necessity for the simpler sort and ignorant people to reade the holy Scriptures and to goe fish their faith out of that profound Ocean but may content themselues with their Pastors instructions and with their Catechismes and other bookes of piety and deuotion albeit we wish them of better vnderstanding if they be not too curious and wilfull to reade the holy Scriptures vvith reuerence seeking humbly to better their knowledge and especially to amend their liues and in places of difficulty not to trust vnto their owne wits but to referre themselues to the exposition of the Catholike Church which is the pillar and fortresse of truth and there vpon vvholy to rely Yet vve require much more knowledge in the simpler sort of people then the Protestants doe for we teach that euery one is to knowe expresly the 12. articles of the Apostles Creede the tenne Commandements and those Sacraments which they themselues are to receiue Further also all such lawes and ordinances of either the spirituall or temporall Gouernour which doe appertayne vnto their owne estate that they may knowe howe both in spirituall and temporall matters to carry themselues vvithout offence Let those our Authors which teach cases of conscience be consulted in those points and you shall finde them to charge euery man in conscience to knowe all these thinges whatsoeuer some men haue thought to the contrary who be not in that allowed but disproued euen by the testimony of that Authour Banes vvhome M. PERKINS quoteth And touching praying in Latin the lawes of the Catholike Church doth not bind any man to pray in Latin who is not first bound to learne the Latin tongue that is men in holy orders are bound to their Latin Breuiary but no man ignorant of the Latin tongue must be admitted vnto holy orders for them that are ignorant of the Latin tongue vve haue diuers bookes of English prayers vvherein they may exercise themselues fruitfully If any deuout women or others who vnderstand not Latin desire to reade some selected and approued Latin prayers we doe not forbidde them because those prayers haue many priuiledges aboue others And vve doubt not but that many of them doe reade the same Latin prayers with much more humility attention and eleuation of their mindes vnto God and all goodnesse then thousandes of Protestants or Puritans who reade and pronounce gallantly many glorious English prayers composed very curiously when their harts be farre from God Lastly he dissenteth from vs for that we say That some articles of faith were at the first beleeued generally by an infolded faith which afterward being by generall Councels vnfolded and declared to be articles of faith were beleeued expreslie This implicity of faith touching articles of religion M. PER. rejecteth saying That all matters of faith are contained plainelie in the Scriptures This he saith without probation and it is by me in the question of Traditions refuted already therefore to that place I referre the reader OF PVRGATORY OVR CONSENT M. PERKINS Page 278. WE hold a Christian Purgatory by which we vnderstand first the afflictions of Gods children here on earth secondly the bloud of Christ is a Purgatory for our sinnes and so Augustine calleth the mercy of God our Purgatory To this I say that the word Purgatory may be taken diuersly and signifie many thinges which because they be not to the present purpose may be here well omitted THE DIFFERENCE WE differ in two thinges first concerning the place the Catholikes hold it to be vnder the ground into which mens soules after this life doe enter This we deny as hauing no warrant in the word which mentioneth only two places for men after this life Luc. 16. v. 25.26 Ioh. 3. Apoc. 22. heauen and hell Here M. PER. beginneth the disproofe of Purgatory with his ordinary hackney it is not mentioned in the Scriptures To which I answere first that it is as shall be proued hereafter but if it were not yet were it to be beleeued because it vvas receiued by Tradition euen from the Apostles time Besides this fault in M. PER. argument there is another more childish to wit because there is no mention made of Purgatory in three or foure places by him quoted he concludeth that it hath no warrant at all in any other place of Scriptures as who should say there is no Doctor of Phisicke in two or three Colledges of Cambridge therefore there is not one in all the Vniuersity besides Finally Luc. 16. vers 25. the very first place by him cited ouerthroweth flatly his owne position it being truly vnderstood according vnto the generall exposition of the most learned Doctors for Abraham then was not in heauen but in a third place called Lymbo Patrum because before Christ had paid their ransome by his death on the crosse the Fathers of the old Testament were holden captiue and so of Christ it is said That ascending on high he ledde captiuity captiue Ephes 4. vers 8. Hebr. 9. v. 8. 15. And S. Paul proueth by the entring of the high Priest only into the second part of the Tabernacle called Sancta Sanctorum that the way of the Holies was not then manifested but by the bloud of Christ to be laid open and they by the death of the testatour to receiue the eternall redemption But this is by the way to shew the wisdome of the man to bring one text in controuersie to established another But he goeth forward and saith stoutly that there can be no place for Purgatory for that it is saide That they who dyed in the Lord Apoc. 14. vers 13. are bidden to rest from their labours which cannot be saith he if they goe into Purgatory And to cut off all cauils it is further said their workes that is the reward of their workes followe them euen at the heeles I answere first that we haue here by the way heauen to be the reward of workes by M. PER. confession which in the question of merits he denied most absolutely Secondly that albeit they who die in our
serm 66. in Cant. Euen so doe S. Bede and S. Bernard with diuers others expound those wordes of our blessed Sauiour The third text of the newe Testament shall be taken out of S. Paul to the Corinthians vvhere he by a similitude of building declareth that some men vpon the only sound foundation IESVS Christ 1. Cor. 3. doe build gold siluer and pretious stones that is very excellent and perfect workes others doe build vpon the same foundation wood hay and stubble that is imperfect and many vaine trifling workes He addeth that the day of our Lord which shall be reuealed in fire shal proue the workes of the afore-said builders and they who haue built gold siluer and pretious stones because their workes will abide the proofe of fire shall receiue their reward but because the other sort of builders workes cannot resist the fire but will burne they shall suffer detriment but shall be saued yet so as by fire Hence we gather that after the triall of Gods judgement some men who are found guilty of lighter faults shall be saued because they keept the foundation notwithstanding they shall suffer detriment and passe through the fire of Purgatory as a man that hath an halfe-timber house couered with thetch set on fire he being in the middest of it must passe through the flames of fire to escape and saue his life The Protestants say that it is the fire of tribulation in this life that doth try our workes and that through it only lighter faults are purged We reply first that tribulation of this life doth not commonly discerne and try good mens workes from the badde because very often good men are more afflicted in this world then the badde Againe it is said in the text that at the day of our Lord this tryall shall be made vvhich day of our Lord being expressed vvith the Greeke article as here it is ordinarily in Scripture signifieth the day of his judgement so that by the very circumstances of the text it is very plaine that the Apostle S. Paul deliuered the doctrine of Purgatory which yet is made more assured by the vniuersall consent of the holy Fathers who take this place to proue Purgatory See Origen homil 6. in Exodum S. Basil saith He threatneth not vtter ruine and destruction In cap. 9. Esay but signifieth a cleansing according vnto the Apostles sentence but he shall be saued yet so as by fire Theodorete This same fire we beleeue to be the fire of Purgatory In scholijs Gr. in 1. Cor. 3. In psal 36 in which the soules of the departed are tryed and purged as gold is in the furnace Oecumenius and Anselmus vpon the same place be of the same judgement S. Ambrose vpon those wordes Sinners haue drawne their swordes saith though our Lord will saue his yet so they shall be saued as by fire and albeit they shall not be consumed with fire yet they shall be burnt S. Hierome in 4. cap. Amos. S. Augustine in almost twenty places expoundeth this text after the same manner Heare this one taken out of his Commentary vpon the 37. Psalme O Lord reproue me not in thy indignation that I goe not to hell neither correct me in thy wrath but purge me in this life and make me such a one that shall haue no neede of that purging fire prepared for them who shall be saued yet so as by fire And why so but because here they doe build vpon the foundation wood hay and stubble if they did build gold siluer and pretious stones they should be safe from both fires not only from that euerlasting which is to punish the wicked euerlastingly but from that also which shall correct them who shall be saued by fire for it is said he shall be saued yet so as by fire And because he shall be saued that fire is contemned yea truly though they shall be saued yet that fire is more grieuous then whatsoeuer a man can suffer in this life These fewe testimonies of the most approued Doctors may suffice to assure vs that the Apostles speeches are to be taken of a purging fire prepared after this life for them that vpon their true faith in Christ doe build through the frailty of our nature many idle odde and vaine workes The last text of holy Scripture shall be this taken out of S. Iohn 1. Epist 5. vers 16. He that knoweth his brother to sinne a sinne not vnto death let him aske and life shall be giuen him there is a sinne to death for that I say not that any man aske Hence I reason thus a sinne to death must in this place needs be taken for sinne wherein a man dyeth for which no man can pray because that he vvho dyeth in deadly sinne shall neuer afterward be pardoned wherefore a sinne not vnto death is a sinne of vvhich a man repenteth him before his death and for such a one doth S. Iohn exhort vs to pray therefore the prayer which he speaketh of when he biddeth vs not pray being prayer for the dead the other prayer also must be prayer for the departed and so doth he will vs to pray for such men departed that dyed not in deadly sinne but with repentance The Caluinists say That S. Iohn speaketh rather of Apostataes and some such like haynous offendors for whome yet aliue he would not haue vs to pray But this is very vvicked doctrine for vve may pray euen for Turkes and Iewes and the most sinnefull persons that liue whiles they liue and haue time to repent for vvhat knowe vve whether God vvill take them to mercy or no and S. Paul saith expresly that he would haue vs to pray for all persons 1. Tim. 2. vers 1. De correct gratia cap. 12. whiles they liue Much more conuenient therefore is that exposition before rehearsed which is taken out of S. Augustine who affirmeth That a sinne to death is to leaue faith working by charity euen till death To these arguments selected out of holy Scripture I will joyne another of no smaller moment with vs Catholikes which is drawne from Apostolicall tradition and the practise of the vniuersall Church in her primitiue purity which hath vsed alwayes to pray for the dead Let vs heare two or three substantiall vvitnesses speake in this matter S. Chrysostome that most renowmed Patriarke of Constantinople shall be the first vvho saith Hom. 69. ad populū That it was not without good cause ordayned and decreed by the Apostles that in the dreadfull mysteries there be made a commemoration of the dead For they did knowe that they should receiue thereby great profit and much commodity S. Augustine as famous for his learning and sincerity in the Latin Church as the other was in the Greeke De verbis Apostoli serm 34. saith to this point thus It is not to be doubted but that the dead are holpen by the prayers of holy Church and by the
in Adam c. I therefore ô my prayse my life and God of my hart laying aside for a season her good workes for which I rejoycing doe giue thee thankes doe nowe pray vnto thee for the sinnes of my Mother heare me I beseech thee through the salue of our woundes that hanged vpon the tree and nowe sitting at thy right hand doth plead for vs. I knowe that shee did many workes of mercy and from her hart forgaue all them that trespassed against her doe thou ô Lord also forgiue her her trespasses if shee committed any after baptisme Pardon her pardon her ô Lord I beseech thee and enter not into judgement with her let thy mercy surpasse thy judgements because thy wordes are true and thou hast promised mercy to the mercifull c. Could that most vvorthy Doctor more directly crosse Caluins false relation of his coldnesse in this matter or in better manner cleare himselfe from his spitefull slaunders Caluin blushed not to say that S. Augustine out of passion prayed for his mother but he himselfe relateth howe he did it some yeares after her death of setled judgement hauing his hart cured from humane affection And thus I end this question of Purgatory OF THE SVPREMACY IN CAVSES ECCLESIASTICAL OVR CONSENT M. PERKINS Page 283. TOuching the point of Supremacy Ecclesiasticall I will set downe howe neare we may come vnto the Roman Church in two conclusions The first conclusion For the founding of the primitiue Church the Ministery of the word was distinguished by degrees not only of order but also of power and Peter was called to the highest degree for Apostles were aboue Euangelists and Euangelists aboue Pastors and teachers nowe Peter was an Apostle and so aboue all Euangelists and Pastors howsoeuer he were not aboue other Apostles The second conclusion Among the 12. Apostes Peter had a three-fold priuiledge or prerogatiue first of authority I meane a preheminence in regard of estimation whereby he was in reuerence aboue the rest of the twelue Secondly of primacy because he was the first named as the fore-man of the quest Thirdly of principality in regard of measure of grace wherein he excelled the rest of the twelue but Paul excelled Peter euery way in learning zeale and vnderstanding as farre as Peter excelled the rest ANNOTATION MAster PERKINS as his manner is at the first vvould seeme to approch somewhat neare vnto the Catholike doctrine and therefore giueth as braue wordes for S. Peters prerogatiues as we doe to wit That he surpassed the other Apostles both in authority primacy and principality but pâ—â—â—ently after his old fashion he watereth his former wordes with such cold glosses that they shrinke in exceedingly for all Peters priuiledges doe extend no further then that he excelled the rest in priuate grace of learning zeale and vnderstanding and was therefore somewhat more esteemed then the rest and named first so that with M. PER. a great mill-post is quickly thwited as they say into a pudding pricke Againe all this is besides the purpose for the question is not vvhich of the Apostles excelled in those priuate gifts of vnderstanding zeale and piety for it is not vnlikely hat S. Iohn the Euangelist who sucked diuine mysteries out of our Sauiours breast was not inferior to either S. Peter or S. Paul in these spirituall graces of heauenly knowledge and charity but vve leauing these secretes vnto him vvho is the judge of the hart and of his inward gifts doe affirme S. Peter to haue beene aduanced aboue all the rest of the Apostles in the externall gouernement of Christes Church and the Bishops of Rome his successors to inherite the same supremacy THE DIFFERENCE by M. PERKINS THe Church of Rome giueth to Peter a supremacy vnder Christ aboue all persons and causes this standeth in a power to determine which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall and what is the true sence of any doubtfull place of them and for this purpose to call and assemble generall Councels and to confirme the decrees of them and by these meanes to decide all controuersiâ—â— about matter of faith Besides he can excommunicate any Christian be he King or Kaesar if they by obstinate withstanding Gods lawes or the decrees of holy Church shal justly deserue it Moreouer to him it doth belong to make Ecclesiasticall Canons and lawes for the due discipline and ordering of matters of the Church which doe binde in conscience Finally to confirme the election of Bishops and to decide all such greater controuersies as by appeale are brought vnto him from any part of Christendome These indeede be the chiefest points of the Popes supremacy as for that of pardoning of sinnes it is no proper part of his primacy but common vnto all not only to Bishops but also to Priests We saith M. PERKINS hold that neyther Peter nor any Bishop of Rome had or hath any such supremacy ouer the Catholike Church but that all supremacy vnder Christ is appertaining to Kinges and Princes with him in their Dominions And that our doctrine is good and theirs false I will make manifest by sundry reasons First Christ must be considered as he was a King two wayes first as he is God so is he King ouer al by right of creation and so as God hath deputies on earth to gouerne the world namely Kings and Princes Secondly he is King by right of redemption ouer the whole Church which he hath redeemed with his pretious bloud and so as mediatour and redeemer he hath no fellowe nor deputy for no creature is capable of this office to doe in the roome and stead of Christ that which himselfe doth because euery worke of the mediatour must arise from the effectes of two natures concurring in one action namely the God-head and Man-hood Againe Christes Priest-hood cannot passe from his person to any other whence it followeth that neyther his Kingly nor his Propheticall he vvould haue said Priestly office can passe from him to any creature Nay it is needlesse for Christ to haue a deputy considering that a deputy only serueth to supply the absence of the principall whereas Christ is alwayes present by his word and spirit it may be said that the Ministers in the worke of the ministery are Christes deputies I answere that they are no deputies but only actiue instruments because they doe only vtter the word but it is Christ that worketh in the hart In like manner in excommunication it is Christ that cutteth that excommunicate person from the Kingdome of heauen and the Church doth only declare this by cutting him off from the rest of Christes people vntill he repent so that in all Ecclesiasticall actions Christ hath no deputies but only instruments the whole action being personall in respect of Christ. Is not this trowe you a prety peece of an argument but we must beare with the length of it because it alone will serue as M. PER. opineth to ouerthrowe many points of Popery let it be therefore wel
vulgar tongue or that all thinges necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is contained in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as de doth all necessarie pointes of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall pointes of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church 1. Tim. 3. vers 15. Ioh. 16. vers 13. which being the piller and ground of truth directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith Master PERKINS The eternal truth of God the creatour shal depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before anie declaration of the Church but vve poore creatures that are subject to mistaking and errour should not so certaynelie vnderstand and knowe that truth of God vnlesse he had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it selfe by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrowe his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holie Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we doe not that the written vvord contayneth all pointes of doctrine necessarie to saluation yet vvere it most necessarie to relie vpon the Catholike Churches declaration both to be assured which bookes of Scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon S. Augustine a man of farre better judgement then any of these daies said Con. Epist Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authority of the Church moued him thereunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the wordes of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sence of them doe but deceiue men and leade them into errour and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to drawe others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creedes and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creede did adde some fewe pointes vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particuler diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by some fewe and obscure men only questioned Wherefore to argue that no other pointes of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creedes is to cut of a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knewe not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writinges yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions nowe againe reuiued and holden by the Protestantes as in those seuerall questions I haue before proued Touching beleeuing in the Church which he thrusteth in by the way we vse not that phrase as the very Creede sheweth following therein S. Augustine with others who hold that to beleeue in a thing is to make it our creatour by giuing our whole hart vnto it in which sence we beleeue not in Saintes nor in the Church albeit some other ancient Doctors take the wordes to beleeue in not so precisely but say that me may beleeue in the Church in Saintes that is beleeue certainely that the Catholike Church is the only true company of Christians and that to the lawfull gouernours thereof it appertaineth to declare both which bookes be Canonicall and what is the true meaning of all doubtfull places in them so we beleeue the Saintes in heauen to heare our prayers to be carefull to pray for vs to be able to obtaine by intreaty much at Gods handes in whose high fauour they liue Thus much in answere vnto that which M. PER. objecteth in generall nowe to that he saith in particuler He chargeth vs first with the breach of the third article Conceiued by the holy Ghost Which saith he is ouerturned by the transubstantiation of bread and wine in the Masse into the body and bloud of Christ for here we are taught to confesse the true and perpetuall incarnation of Christ beginning in his conception and neuer ending afterward Answ Here is a strange exposition of the Creede Is Christes incarnation perpetuall and not yet ended then it is true to say that Christ is not yet incarnate as we may say truly that a man is not borne vntill his birth be accomplished and ended But to the present purpose because Christes incarnation beganne at his conception cannot bread be turned afterward into his body how hangeth this together Belike he meanes that Christes body was but once conceiued and that was by the holy Ghost in his mothers wombe therefore it cannot afterward be made of any other thing This to be his meaning he declares in the question of the Sacrament but it is too too simple and childish For we hold him not to be so conceiued by bread as he was by the holy Ghost who was the efficient cause of his conception but that the same body that was cōceiued by the holy Ghost is made really present in the Sacrament by transubstantiation of bread into it which hath no opposition at al with this article as I haue more largely proued in the foresaid question And whereas he saith further cleane besides the purpose of this article that Christes body hath the essentiall properties of a true body standing of flesh and bone we grant the same but when he addeth that local circumscription cannot be seuered from a body he is deceiued for the greatest body of all others which is the highest heauen is not circumscribed by any place because there is no other body without it whose extreamities might compasse in and circumscribe that body of the highest heauen And when he saith that to be circumscribed in place is an essentiall property of euery quantity and that quantity is the common essence of euery body he makes himselfe but a common mocking-stocke vnto euery simple Logitian who knoweth that no accident such as euery quantity is can be of the essence and nature of a substance such as Christes body is Neither would any man say that cared what he said that to be circumscribed in a place is essentiall to euery quantity when all numbers that be quantities
right meaning of all obscure sentences as they most childishly beare their followers in hand Briefly to conclude this point a great number of them hauing Gods word corrupted for the lanterne to their feete and their owne dimme sight for their best guide no maruaile though they stumble at many difficulties in these high misteries and fall into very absurd opinions concerning the principall partes of them Nowe to make vp an euen reckoning with M. PER. Atheisme I must come vnto their diuine seruice and worship of God the third point that I promised to handle because he spared not to speake his pleasure of ours First then whereas a true reall and externall sacrifice is among all externall workes the most excellent seruice that can be done to the diuine Majestie as shall be proued in the question of the sacrifice which also hath euer since the beginning of the world beene by the best men practised to acknowledge and testifie aswell the soueraigne dominion that God hath ouer vs as our dutifull subjection vnto his almighty goodnesse the Protestantes to make knowne vnto the wiser sorte that they are not Gods true loyall people will not vouchsafe to performe to him any such speciall seruice as to sacrifice in his honour nay they are fallen so farre out with this principall part of Gods true worship that they doe in despite of it powre out most vile reproches against the daylie sacrifice of the Catholike Church which contayneth the blessed body and most pretious bloud of our redeemer IESVS Christ. Secondly of seauen Sacraments instituted by our Sauiour both to exhibite honour to God and to sanctifie our soules they doe flatly reject fiue of them And doe further as much as in them lieth extinguish the vertue and efficacy of the other two For they hold Baptisme not to be the true instrumentall cause of remission of our sinnes and of the infusion of grace into our soules but only to be the signe and seale thereof And in steade of Christes sacred body really giuen to all Catholikes in the Sacrament of the Altar to their exceeding comfort and dignity the Protestantes must be content to take vp with a bitte of bread and with a suppe of wine a most pittifull exchange for so heauenly a banquet They doe daylie feele and I would to God they had grace to vnderstand what a want they haue of the Sacrament of Confession which is the most soueraigne salue of the world to cure all the deadly and dangerous woundes of the soule Ah howe caresty doe they daylie heape sinne vpon sinne and suffer them to lie festring in their breastes euen till death for lacke of launcing them in season by true and due confession Besides at the point of death when the Diuell is most busie to assault vs labouring then to make vs his owne for euer there is amongst them no anointing of the sicke with holy oile in the name of our Lord as S. Iames prescribeth joyned with the Priestes prayer Cap. 5. vers 14. which should saue the sicke and by meanes whereof his sinnes should be forgiuen and he lifted vp by our Lord and inwardly both greatly comforted and strengthned these heauenly helpes I say and many others which our Catholike religion afford vnto all persons by which rightly administred God is highly magnified are quite banished out of the Protestant territories and consequently their religion for want of them is mightily maymed They haue yet remayning some poore short prayers to be said twise a weeke for fearing belike to make their Ministers surfette of ouer much praying they will not tie them to any daylie prayers Mattins Euensong and other set houres they leaue to the Priestes sauing that on the Sabbaoth they solemnely meete together at the Church to say their seruice which is a certayne mingle-mangle translated out of the old portaise and Masse booke patched vp together with some fewe of their owne inuentions And though it be but short yet it is the Lord he knowes performed by most of them so slightly that an indifferent beholder would rather judge them to come thither to gase one vpon another or to common of worldly businesse then reuerently there to serue God Nowe as concerning the place where their diuine seruice is said if goodly stately Churches had not beene by men of our religion built to their handes in what simple cotes trowe you would their key-cold deuotion haue beene content to serue their Lord if one Church or great steeple by any mishap fall into vtter ruine a collection throughout all England for many yeares together will not serue to build it vp againe which maketh men of judgement to perceiue that their religion is exceeding cold in the setting foreward of good workes and that it rather tendeth to destruction then to edification Againe whereas our Churches are furnished with many goodly Altars trimmed vp decently and garnished with sundry faire and religious pictures to strike into the beholders a reuerent respect of that place and to drawe them to heauenly meditations theirs haue ordinarely bare walles hanged with cob-webs except some of the better sort which are daubed like Ale-houses with some broken sentences of Scripture Besides the ancient custome of Christians being to pray with their faces towardes the Sunne rising to shewe the hope they haue of a good resurrection and that by tradition receiued euen from the Apostles as witnesseth Saint Basil their Ministers in their highest misteries De Spiritu sancto 27. looke ouer their communion table into the South to signifie perhaps that their spirituall estate is now at the highest and that in their religion there is no hope of rising towardes heauen but assurance of declining I may not here omitte that of late yeares they haue caused the Kinges armes to be set vp in the place where Christes armes the Crucifix was wont to stand the which I confesse would haue graced their Church better if it had beene else where placed But I hope they will giue me leaue to aske them howe they durst set vp any such Images in their Churches as be in that armes For they haue taught hitherto that it is expresly against the second commandement and a kind of Idolatry not only to worshippe Images but also to set them vp in Churches and yet nowe as it were cleane forgetting themselues they fall into that fault themselues that they haue so much blamed in others Neither will it helpe them to say that they reproued only the setting vp of holy pictures but not of others For the second commandement as they expound it is aswell against the one as the other forbidding generally the making of any kind of Image And is it not a pittifull blindnesse to thinke that the pictures of Lions and Liberts doe better become the house of God then the Image of his owne Sonne and of his faithfull seruants And may not simple people thinke when they see Christes armes cast downe and the Princes set vp in
Scripture very handsomely together and would no doubt write a faire Commentary vpon the text if he were let alone but yet tell me I pray you by the way howe Christians can lift vp such pure handes and offer so cleane a Sacrifice if al their best workes be defiled with sinne and no cleaner then a filthy menstruous cloute as you doe teach But to confute him directly our Lord speaketh there to the Priestes of the old lawe and rebuketh them sharpely for their fault committed in their Sacrifices offered to him and therefore foretelleth them that he will reject al their Sacrifices and accept of an other cleane Sacrifice among the Gentils Nowe as Sacrifice in the former part of his speach is taken most properly as no man can denie so must it be in the latter or else there were a great equiuocation in that sentence and no plaine opposition of Sacrifice to Sacrifice cleane to polluted And if he had reprehended the Iewes for their vnpure prayers then had it beene correspondent to haue said that he vvould haue receiued cleane prayers of others in lieu of them but inueighing against Priestes and sacrifices the very order and proportion of the sentence necessarily requireth that for those euill Priestes and poluted sacrifices he would establish good Priestes and cleane sacrifices according vnto the proper signification of the wordes Againe God is not so extreamely bent against the Iewes nowe but that he would receiue the spirituall Sacrifice of prayer and thankes-giuing euen from them if they doe offer it but he speaketh there of a kinde of Sacrifice that he vvill not receiue from their handes therefore that Sacrifice cannot be vnderstood to be any such spirituall thing but a true proper kind of Sacrifice And Iustine Martyr whome M. PER. citeth is so farre off from saying supplications and thanks-giuing to be the only perfect Sacrifices that Christians haue that in the very same Dialogue he applieth this prophesie of Malachie vnto the Sacrifice of the Masse saying That euen then Malachie the Prophet did speake of our Sacrifices which are offered vp in all places to wit of the bread and Chalice of the Eucharist which his equall Ireneus cited also by M. PER. doth more amply deliuer in these wordes Christ tooke bread and gaue thankes L. 4. cont Haeres cap. 32. saying This is my body and that in the Chalice be confessed to be his bloud which the Church receiuing from the Apostles doth offer to God through the whole world as the first fruites of his giftes of which Malachie one of the twelue Prophets did prophesie thus I take no pleasure in you c. citing the place all at large It is to be noted that in the Hebrewe text and Greeke translation there is in the text of Malachie before a cleane Sacrifice this word incense Incense is offered to my name and a cleane Sacrifice the which the ancient Interpreters doe expound of prayer and make it a distinct thing from the Sacrifice there also distinctly put Orat. cōt Iud. ca. 9. S. Augustine doth proue out of this place of Malachy that the Leuiticall Sacrifices should all cease and further that though all their Sacrifices ceased yet there should stil remaine a true Sacrifice to be offered by the Christians to the true God of Israell and biddeth them open their eyes and see it And in an other place specifieth vvhat that Sacrifice is Li. 18. de ciuit c. 35 Li. 1. cōt Aduersar legis Prophet cap. 20. Lib. 4. de fide c. 14. saying Nowe we see this Sacrifice by the Priest-hood of Christ after the order of Melchisedecke to be offered and againe They knowe who read what Melchisedecke brought forth when he blessed Abraham to wit bread wine and they are partakers of it and doe see such a Sacrifice to be offered nowe to God throughout the whole world Theodoret vpon that place of Malachy doth expresly teach that according to his prophesie There is now offered the immaculate Lambe in lieu of all their Sacrifices And S. Iohn Damascene speaking of the blessed Sacrament saith This is that pure and vnbloudy Sacrifice that our Lord by his Prophet did foretell to be offered from the rising of the sunne vnto the setting Thus much of the three first arguments which M. PER. propounded in our fauour out of the olde Testament but he hath skipped ouer other three which we haue in the newe of which I must needes stand vpon one because it is the ground of all the rest the other two I am content to omitt for breuities sake it is taken out of the wordes of consecration and as our fourth argument may be framed thus Christ at his last supper did properly sacrifice vnto God his owne body and bloud vnder the formes of bread and wine but what Christ then and there did the same is to be done in the Church by his ordinance vntill the worldes end ergo There is and alwayes must be a proper Sacrifice in the true Church They doe denie that Christ offered any such Sacrifice in his last supper we proue it thus Luc. 22. by his owne wordes For he saith That his body which he gaue them to eate was euen then giuen for them to God that his bloud was then presently shed for remission of their sinnes But to offer his body and bloud to God by such a sacred action and vnder such visible creatures to be there eaten is properly to Sacrifice ergo Christ at his last supper did properly offer Sacrifice They answere that albeit it be said in the present tense then giuen and shedde yet the meaning is that it should be giuen only the morrowe after on the Crosse the present tense being put for the future further adde that in the Canon of the Masse the verbe is put in the future tense We reply that men may not at their pleasure change tenses or else the Iewes might defend that our Messias were not yet borne and if we proue it saying The Word is made flesh they may by this licence of changing the present tense into the future say that it is not so yet but it shall be hereafter therefore to flie vnto chopping and changing the text without any reason or authority is rather to shift off then to defend a cause well But say they it is in the Masse booke effundetur God helpe the poore men that louing the Masse no better are driuen yet from the plaine text of holy Scripture to flie to the Masse-booke for succour but it vvill not serue their turne because both are true and agree vvell together For Christes bloud vnder the forme of vvine vvas presently sacrificed and shedde at his last supper and the same in his owne forme vvas to be shedde the morrowe after on the Crosse and againe vnder the forme of wine also was to be shedde in the same Sacrament vnto the worldes end so that truly properly both may be said it is
yea for Heathen Princes behold the first kinde of Mediatour For Christians that pray for all men by their intercession are meanes vnto God for conuersion of others and so may be called Mediatours in a good sence as Moyses saith of himselfe Deut. 5. vers 5. Gal. 3. vers 19. Act. 7. vers 35. Iudic. 3. vers 9. I was an intercessour and meanes or mediatour betweene our Lord and you And by S. Paul he is plainely called a Mediatour the law was ordayned by Angels in the hand of a Mediatour And by S. Stephen he is called a Redeemer as Othoniel is tearmed a Sauiour And that in this sence there may be many mediatours S. Cyril testifieth saying * In Ioh. l. 3. cap. 9. The Mediatour of God and man is IESVS Christ not only because he reconciled men vnto God but for that he is naturally both God and man in one person For by this meanes God reconciled our natures to him for otherwise howe should S. Paul haue said Christ to be the only Mediatour for many of the Saints haue vsed the ministery of mediation as S Paul himselfe crying vpon men to be reconciled to God and Moyses was a Mediatour for he ministred the lawe vnto the people and Ieremy was also a Mediatour when he stood before God and prayed for good thinges to the people Related in 2. Concil Nice art 4. What neede many wordes saith this great Doctor all the Prophets and Apostles were Mediatours VVith S. Cyril accordeth S. Basil who hoped for mercy at Gods handes and forgiuenesse of his sinnes by the mediation of the holy Prophets Apostles and Martirs And S. Bernard was of the same minde Serm. super sign◠magnum apparuit in coelo when he taught that we stand in neede of a Mediatour to the Mediatour and no one more for our profit and commodity then the blessed Virgin Mary so that this mediation and intercession of Saints is no whit at all injurious vnto the only mediation of Christ for it is of a farre different kind from Christes mediation and of the same sort as the prayers be of other good men liuing on earth who all sue vnto God in Christs name and hope to obtayne all and euery of them their petitions by the vertue of his merits and therefore all our prayers and theirs are commonly concluded thus Through our Lord IESVS Christ thy Sonne who with thee liueth and raigneth in the vnity of the holy Ghost God for euer and euer And thus much to M. PER. foundation laide vpon the sandes vvherein he so insolently renounced the Catholike doctrine but that I doe him no wrong I must here adde a coople of other arguments which he misplaced in the former question and therefore I reserued them to this The former All true inuocation and prayer made according vnto the will of God must haue a double foundation a commandement and a promise A commandement to moue vs to pray and a promise to assure vs that we shall be heard for euery prayer must be made in faith and without a commandement and promise there is no faith Vpon this infallible ground I conclude that we may not pray to Saints departed for in the Scripture there is no word either commanding vs to pray to them or assuring vs that we shall be heard when we pray Answere We deny that prayer requireth that double foundation of a commandement to pray and promise to be heard when we pray and that vpon the vvarrant of some of the best prayers that are recorded in holy Scripture When Abraham prayed for the sauing of Sodome and Gomorrha Gen. 18. vers 25. and did obtayne that if there had beene in them but tenne just persons their Cyties should not haue beene destroyed we reade neither of commandement giuen to Abraham to make that prayer nor any promise before he beganne it to be heard and this man was the Father of the faithfull and knewe much better then an hundreth M. PERKINS howe and when to pray And vvhen milde Moyses that most vvise conductor of the Israelites prayed vnto God so peremptorily that he would either blot him out of the booke of life or else pardon his people the Israelites Exod. 32. vers 32. had he either commandement so to pray or promise to be heard I am sure that they can shewe me none at all in the Scripture Nay God before entreated Moyses that he would not pray vnto him for them Ibidem vers 10. but suffer him to punish them according to their deserts promising to aduance Moyses exceedingly if he would giue ouer his suite neuerthelesse Moyses omitted not to pray most earnestly for the same people and vvas heard Neede vve any other proofe to ouerthrowe M. PER. rotten foundation And vvhen Iosue rather commanded then prayed Iosue 10. vers 12. that the Sunne should not moue against Gabaon and it stayed his course for a whole day space God obeying vnto the voice of man as the holy Ghost speaketh vvhat commandement or promise had Iosue for this and to omit an hundreth other like what promise had S. Paul to assure him to be heard 2. Cor. 12. vers 8. when he prayed not once but thrise that the pricke of the flesh should be taken away from him none at al I weene for his request would not be granted him By this the indifferent reader may perceiue how grosse the Protestants judgement is in matters of faith vvho take that for an infallible ground of religion vvhich is so contrary vnto the expresse vvord of God that nothing can be more Of faith necessary in prayer shall be spoken as soone as I haue dispatched an other text of Scripture misplaced here and misaplyed Math. 4. vers 10. We are saith M. PER. commanded to call vpon God only him only shalt thou serue This mans eies-sight beginneth to faile him much that cannot discerne betweene calling vpon and seruing when many a Master calleth vpon his man whome he doth not serue but is serued by him The text is already expounded out of S. Augustine that we must serue God only with Godly honour as the Greeke vvordes Latréyseis doth there notifie notwithstanding which only seruice euery seruant I hope may serue his Master and euery inferiour vvorship his superiour and so may we doe the Saints our betters in all goodnesse with such worship as is due vnto their singular gifts And as we may pray vnto men aliue vvithout derogation vnto God his only seruice so may we doe to the Saints departed But M. PER. fearing the weakenesse of this fortification secondeth it with an other out of the Apostle Rom. 10. vers 14. Howe shall we call vpon him in whome we haue not beleeued but we may not beleeue in Saints therefore we may not call vpon them I answere that we cannot call vpon any man for more then we beleeue to be in him and so much must we beleeue to be in euery man as
former offences Neyther can a man that is dead alter his estate but must expect judgement according to his former deserts Now if he haue vpon the true foundation builded wood hay and stubble then he must passe through the fire marry by the helpe of good prayers almes and principally by the Sacrifice of the Masse he may haue his paines in that purging fire remitted or much eased as you haue heard before out of S. Augustine Hom. 41. in 1. ad Corinth And the same teacheth S. Chrysostome saying The dead are holpen not by their friendes weeping but by their prayers supplications and almes And this is all in effect which M. PERKINS disputeth against Purgatory Secondly saith he we differ from them touching the meanes of Purgatory They say that men are purged by suffering of paines in Purgatory whereby they satisfie for their veniall sinnes and for the temporall punishment of their mortall sinnes We teach the contrary holding that nothing can free vs from the least punishment of the smallest sinne but the sufferinges of Christ Indeede they say that our sufferinges in themselues considered doe not purge and satisfie but as they are made meritorious by the sufferings of Christ But to this I oppose one text of Scripture Hebr. 1. vers 3. Christ hath purged our sinnes by himselfe where the last clause cuts the throate of all humane satisfactions and merits and it giueth vs to vnderstand that whatsoeuer purgeth vs from our sinnes is not to be found in vs but in Christ alone To batter this his only fortresse his owne wordes in the beginning of the same Chapter are very sufficient for there he plainely teacheth That by afflictions which men suffer in this world they are clensed from their corruption as gold is from the drosse by fire If our owne suffering purge vs from sinne as he confesseth before howe then can it be true that that vvhich purgeth vs from our sinnes is not in vs but in Christ alone Againe it is but a diuers reading in the Greeke text that hath those wordes by himselfe for they are not in the Latin translation But admitting them for currant the sence is most easie and nothing against eyther Purgatory or humane satisfactions for the Apostle meaneth no other thing thereby then that he expresseth in the 9. Chapter following to wit That Christ not by the bloud of Calues or Goates but by his owne bloud purged vs from our sinnes and wrought our redemption in such sort as in the question of satisfaction hath beene declared at large Here I say briefly that Christ appeased his Fathers wrath towardes all such as shal be made pertakers of his merits defaced the sinne it selfe and paide the eternall punishment due vnto their sinnes but left a temporall paine to be endured of the offendour for euery such sinne pardoned eyther in this world or in the next both because reason requireth that he vvho falleth after that he was once freely pardoned as vve were all in baptisme should not the second time be so easilie admitted into Gods grace as that he should not himselfe feele some smart for his offence Againe we being members of Christs body meete it is that we suffer with him Rom. 8. Col. 1 24. if we will raigne with him as the Apostle teacheth vvho also was so bold as to say that he in his body accomplished those thinges that wanted to the passions of Christ. To this place M. PER. referreth prayer for the dead of which he propoundeth three conclusions two affirmatiue and one negatiue but proueth nothing The first conclusion We hold that Christian charity must extend it selfe to them that be dead to wit in honest buriall of them in preseruing their good names and in reliefe of their posterity The second conclusion Further we pray in generall for the faithfull departed that God would hasten their joyfull resurrection The third conclusion To pray for particular men departed and to pray for their deliuerance out of Purgatory we thinke it vnlawfull because we haue neither promise nor commandement so to doe and so endeth he the question of Purgatory not propounding one argument in fauour of our party His reason of the necessity of a promise and commandement to pray for any thing before we pray for it I haue in the question of praying to Saints confuted at large and therefore omit it here and will furnish this place vvith some arguments for the proofe of Purgatory And though M. PER. blushed not to say that it hath no warrant in the word of God yet he hath or might haue seene in Cardinall Bellarmine Tom. 1. controuer 6. cap. 3. 4. little lesse then 20. textes of holy Scripture vsed by the auncient Doctors to confirme the doctrine of Purgatory I will make choise of some fewe of them and because Purgatory and prayer for the dead be so closely lincked together that the one doth necessarily followe the other I will joyne them both togither And gentle Reader remember here that which hath beene before rehearsed out of S. Augustine that there be some who die in so perfect an estate that they are carryed presently to heauen as all Innocents and Martirs and such other holy personages who commit fewe offences and yet doe leade a very austere life Others there be too too many vvho both liue and die wickedly such are also straight after their death plunged into the flames of hell fire Nowe There is a third sort of men who liue reasonable honestly at least doe die very penitently these only goe to Purgatory there to doe satisfaction for their former offences before they can be admitted into the joyes of heauen nowe to our proofes First 2. Machabaeor 12. Iudas Machabeus that most valiant Captayne of the people of God with all his armie prayed vnto God to pardon the offence of them that were slaine * Vers 42. and afterward making a generall collection among them sent 12000. groates to Hierusalem that sacrifice might there be offered for the offence of the departed the holy Ghost in the text witnessing it To be a holy and holesome cogitation to pray for the dead that they may be loosed and deliuered from their sinnes This text is so euident for prayer for the dead that it can haue no other answere then that which Heretikes flie vnto in their most desperate plunges to vvit to denie the whole booke to be Canonicall Scripture Vpon which point because it belongeth to another place I wil not dwel yet vvill I note by the vvay that S. Augustine in expresse tearmes doth declare 18. Ciuit. cap. 36. that the Church of God in his time did take it for Canonicall Scripture although the Iewes did not so The Protestants I knowe vvell cauill at many thinges in those bookes so might they that were disposed to wrangle against the best Hystories in the Bible But one of milder temper may perhaps demand howe those bookes that were at the first
considered of To it then I say first that if it be ought worth it as well ouerthroweth the Kinges as the Popes Supremacy For if the Pope may not be Christes deputy as he is mediatour and gouernour of his Church because that no creature can be his deputy in any point of Ecclesiasticall gouernement as M. PER. defineth then surely no King nor Prince who are meere creatures and not one of them I trowe both God and Man can be Christes deputy in the gouernement of his Church I say secondly that a meere creature may be Christ our mediatours deputy and Vicar in the Ecclesiasticall gouernement of his Church neyther is there therein any one action that necessarily proceedeth from the two natures of God and Man as M. PER. dreameth Examine all the points of Supremacy proposed in the difference by himselfe and see vvhether there be any one that must needes be the action of both God and Man to call a generall Councell is none such nor to ratifie the decrees thereof to discusse and declare which bookes be Canonicall Scripture and vvhat is the true meaning of all obscure places therein contayned may be done by men assisted by the inspiration of the holy Ghost and so among all the rest there is not one point of the Supremacy but may be vvell executed by a mortall man assisted with Gods spirit The points of Christes mediation namely to satisfie his Fathers vvrath by paying him the full ransome of all mankinde the establishing of a newe Testament or lawe the creation of spirituall Magistrates the furnishing of it with Sacraments and such like are indeede so proper to Christ that they cannot be communicated vnto others Marry to see that his lawes be vvell obserued lawfull Gouernours and Ministers elected and his Sacraments rightly administred the chardge I say of these thinges may be very vvell committed vnto his deputies and the principall ouer-sight of all vnto one supreme gouernour vnder himselfe that all the inferiour Prelates may be holden in peace and vnity And to say that Christes presence by his vvord and spirit is sufficient to dissolue all doubtes that arise about matter of faith and to reforme all misdemeanour that is among Christians without the authority of some Magistrate to see the same vvell declared and applyed vnto particular persons is to speake against all reason and experience For vvho shall reforme obstinate Heretikes Christes vvord but Heretikes haue alwayes said and will euer say that it maketh for them Shall Christes spirit correct them they hold that they haue that spirit in such aboundance that it cryeth in them Abba Father so that M. PER. argument driueth to this that there must be no gouernour at all but that euery wrangling fellowe is to be left vnto the vvord and spirit of Christ vvhich is most absurd in matter of gouernement And albeit that in producing of supernaturall effectes men be but Gods instruments yet because they be instruments indued with reason chosen by God and enabled to doe that whereunto they are by Christ appointed I see no reason why they may not be well called Christes deputies Sure I am that S. Paul feareth not to stile himselfe with the other Apostles 2. Cor. 5. vers 20. 1. Cor. 3. vers 9 Christes Legates or Ambassadours which is as much if not more then his deputies And in an other place he goeth yet further and saith that they are coadjutors or fellowe worke-men with God for though it be Gods worke as the only efficient cause yet men doe concurre thereunto as his instruments and doe in their kinde worke properly towards the producing of the effect as the Preacher by his perswasions zeale and piety doth very much moue his Auditors to embrace Godlinesse although he should labour in vaine if God dâ—d not principally both concurre with his speeches and inwardly also dispose the hart of the hearer to receiue them But of this more hereafter in the matter of the Sacraments Touching the matter of gouernement I cannot vnderstand what M. PER. meaneth when he saith that euery action thereof proceedeth from the very person of Christ for vvhen the Bishops or congregation doth excommunicate an offendour howe can that act of theirs be personal in respect 〈…〉 speaketh Is Christ there thâ—â— in paâ—â—â—â—◠〈…〉 â—â—n-hood togither are they prosecution 〈…〉 sentence of excommunication vvhat adoâ—â—◠〈…〉 if such deepe doctrine drowne many pâ—â—â—e of Popâ—â—ry If Christ be not there present howe thâ—n can thee action proceeds 〈◊〉 him only and be so proper to him that it may be called personall M. PER. meaneth perhaps only that when the congregation doth out 〈…〉 the Church by excommunication then Christ 〈…〉 from the kingdome of heauen vvhich is also false for many 〈…〉 vvhich afterward vpon their 〈◊〉 vnto that kingdome and therefore vvere not cut off from it by Christ But suppose it were true that Christ then seperated that person from heauen vvould it followe thereof that the act of coâ—ting him off 〈◊〉 congregation done by the Church vvere the proper action of Christ proceeding immediatelie from his two 〈◊〉 of God and man nothing I thinke can be imagined more absurd wherefore all the actions of Ecclesiastical gouernement issue properly from the persons of the Gouernours vvho are in deede placed in that seate of authority by Christ and inspired by him to exercise that function duty but so qualified by Christ doe formally execute and vvorke all the actions belonging to gouernement and therefore may be most properly called Deputies vvho in their Masters name and by authority receiued from him doe that they haue commission to doe M. PERKINS second reason is All the Apostles were equall in power and authority for the commission Apostolicall was equally giuen vnto them all Math. 28. Goe teach all nations baptizing them c. Answere They were equall in that point of preaching the Gospell to all nations and in many other thinges vvhich appertayned to the planting of the Christian religion Marry alwayes with this generall prouiso that both they and all those vvho were conuerted vnto the faith by them should acknowledge and obey one supreme Pastor Christes Vicegerent on earth Which S. Leo doth very plainely teach saying Epist 84. ad Anast Betweene the most blessed Apostles in the similitude or equality of honour there was a certayne difference of power and where as the election of them all was equall yet it was giuen vnto one of them to haue preheminence aboue the rest But M. PERKINS saith that the promise of the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen was not priuate to Peter but in his person made to the rest of the Apostles according vnto Peters confession made in the name of the rest Answere Very just euen as Peter made his confession so vvas the promise but he made that confession of Christ in his owne name and that by speciall reuelation from God without consulting with any of the rest therefore to him alone vvas that