such_o special_a opportunity_n of_o know_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n both_o jewish_a and_o christian_a beside_o i_o be_o inform_v that_o the_o famous_a bishop_n of_o sardis_n melito_n a_o man_n of_o great_a judgement_n and_o venerable_a holiness_n as_o your_o sixtus_n senensis_n say_v do_v take_v a_o journey_n to_o the_o eastern_a church_n where_o the_o apostle_n principal_o preach_v to_o find_v out_o the_o true_a canon_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o return_v with_o the_o same_o canon_n that_o we_o own_v but_o for_o the_o apochrypha_n bring_v home_o a_o non_fw-fr est_fw-la inventus_fw-la and_o moreover_o that_o divers_a of_o your_o great_a champion_n do_v confess_v that_o a_o great_a number_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n be_v of_o our_o opinion_n among_o which_o themselves_o reckon_v melito_n origen_n athanasius_n eusebius_n ruffinus_n hierom_n and_o amphilocius_fw-la so_o say_v canus_n and_o bellarmine_n and_o andradius_fw-la and_o in_o the_o general_n sixtus_n senensis_n confess_v that_o the_o ancient_a father_n be_v of_o our_o opinion_n be_v these_o thing_n so_o pop._n i_o will_v not_o deny_v the_o truth_n it_o be_v so_o but_o you_o must_v know_v that_o other_o father_n be_v of_o another_o mind_n as_o clemens_n cyprian_n and_o ambrose_n and_o especial_o st._n austin_n and_o the_o council_n of_o carthage_n prot._n the_o father_n of_o our_o opinion_n be_v both_o far_o more_o numerous_a and_o such_o as_o live_v near_a the_o apostolical_a time_n and_o church_n the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o that_o of_o carthage_n and_o therefore_o of_o great_a authority_n and_o beside_o the_o six_o council_n of_o constantinople_n do_v express_o confirm_v all_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n among_o which_o this_o be_v one_o and_o the_o council_n of_o carthage_n too_o do_v not_o your_o work_n for_o in_o their_o catalogue_n there_o be_v both_o more_o than_o you_o own_o to_o wit_n the_o three_o book_n of_o esdras_n although_o they_o call_v it_o the_o second_o as_o the_o greek_n do_v and_o less_o too_o for_o they_o shut_v out_o baruch_n and_o the_o maccabee_n but_o beside_o all_o this_o i_o be_o tell_v that_o very_o many_o of_o your_o most_o eminent_a doctor_n have_v disow_v these_o book_n which_o we_o reject_v as_o the_o parisian_a divine_n and_o cardinal_n ximenius_n with_o the_o complutensian_a university_n and_o aquinas_n and_o lyra_n and_o pagnim_fw-la and_o many_o other_o be_v it_o so_o pop._n i_o confess_v this_o be_v true_a 43._o prot._n then_o i_o be_o sure_a this_o may_v satisfy_v any_o rational_a man_n concern_v the_o testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n and_o for_o the_o next_o point_n viz._n their_o agreement_n with_o the_o canonical_a book_n i_o think_v it_o be_v plain_a enough_o that_o they_o do_v gross_o contradict_v they_o and_o the_o truth_n too_o that_o fact_n of_o simeon_n and_o levi_n which_o good_a jacob_n act_v by_o god_n spirit_n detest_v judith_n commend_v chap._n 9_o tobit_n be_v say_v to_o have_v live_v 202._o year_n chap._n 14._o whereas_o if_o he_o say_v true_a he_o must_v have_v live_v twice_o as_o long_o for_o he_o say_v he_o be_v take_v captive_a by_o salmanasser_n chap._n 1._o and_o 2._o and_o 14._o and_o when_o he_o be_v about_o to_o die_v he_o say_v the_o time_n be_v near_o for_o the_o return_n of_o the_o israelite_n from_o their_o captivity_n and_o the_o re-building_n of_o the_o temple_n which_o be_v burn_v if_o the_o book_n of_o the_o maccabee_n say_v true_a antiochus_n his_o soul_n have_v a_o lease_n of_o his_o body_n for_o three_o life_n and_o he_o be_v kill_v thrice_o over_o i_o commend_v the_o author_n he_o be_v resolve_v to_o make_v sure_a work_n of_o he_o 1._o he_o die_v at_o babylon_n in_o his_o bed_n 1_o mac._n 2._o 6._o then_o he_o be_v stone_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o nanea_n 2_o mac._n 1._o last_o he_o die_v in_o the_o mountain_n by_o a_o fall_n out_o of_o his_o chariot_n 2_o maccab._n 9_o and_o the_o fine_a fetch_n of_o your_o author_n to_o reconcile_v these_o gross_a contradiction_n put_v i_o in_o mind_n of_o a_o story_n we_o hear_v at_o school_n if_o you_o remember_v of_o a_o gentleman_n that_o tell_v this_o lie_n apocryphis_fw-la that_o he_o shoot_v a_o deer_n at_o one_o shot_n through_o his_o right_a ear_n and_o leave_v hinder_v leg_n and_o you_o know_v how_o hard_o his_o man_n be_v put_v to_o it_o to_o help_v his_o master_n out_o but_o i_o will_v not_o launch_v forth_o into_o the_o sea_n of_o untruth_n and_o absurdity_n that_o be_v contain_v in_o those_o book_n these_o may_v suffice_v to_o show_v you_o that_o we_o do_v not_o without_o warrant_n reject_v they_o but_o howsoever_o it_o be_v sufficient_a for_o my_o purpose_n that_o you_o grant_v that_o my_o bible_n as_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o these_o book_n in_o it_o canonical_a and_o i_o can_v know_v this_o without_o the_o church_n authority_n pop._n do_v not_o make_v too_o much_o haste_n if_o i_o do_v grant_v that_o these_o book_n in_o the_o original_a language_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n yet_o you_o be_v but_o a_o translation_n prot._n be_v it_o right_o translate_v for_o the_o substance_n or_o be_v it_o not_o what_o bible_n be_v that_o which_o you_o have_v pop._n a_o latin_a bible_n prot._n be_v that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o right_o translate_v pop._n yes_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v decree_v so_o prot._n then_o i_o pray_v you_o let_v we_o try_v this_o experiment_n do_v you_o pick_v out_o any_o 20._o verse_n in_o several_a part_n of_o the_o bible_n and_o turn_v they_o into_o english_a out_o of_o your_o bible_n pop._n the_o motion_n be_v fair_a i_o will_v do_v it_o prot._n i_o do_v not_o find_v any_o substantial_a difference_n in_o all_o these_o place_n between_o your_o translation_n and_o i_o the_o difference_n be_v whole_o in_o word_n not_o at_o all_o in_o sense_n so_o now_o i_o thank_v you_o for_o this_o occasion_n for_o i_o have_v hear_v some_o of_o your_o priest_n rant_a high_o against_o our_o translation_n and_o now_o i_o see_v they_o have_v no_o cause_n for_o it_o pop._n if_o all_o this_o be_v over_o yet_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a rule_n to_o guide_v you_o to_o heaven_n of_o itself_o without_o tradition_n prot._n why_o so_o i_o beseech_v you_o pop._n because_o you_o be_v also_o command_v there_o to_o hold_v the_o tradition_n true_a in_o your_o bible_n to_o 2_o thes._n 2._o 15._o hold_v the_o tradition_n which_o you_o have_v be_v teach_v whether_o by_o word_n or_o epistle_n prot._n how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o such_o tradition_n as_o be_v not_o write_v in_o the_o scripture_n pop._n because_o he_o so_o plain_o distinguish_v between_o what_o he_o teach_v they_o by_o word_n and_o what_o he_o teach_v they_o by_o epistle_n or_o write_n prot._n that_o may_v be_v true_a that_o he_o speak_v of_o some_o thing_n of_o which_o he_o have_v not_o write_v to_o they_o and_o yet_o they_o may_v be_v write_v by_o he_o to_o other_o or_o by_o other_o at_o least_o after_o that_o time_n but_o beside_o notwithstanding_o this_o distinction_n between_o word_n and_o epistle_n divers_a of_o your_o own_o author_n affirm_v that_o tradition_n be_v perfect_a and_o that_o st._n paul_n teach_v all_o thing_n necessary_a by_o word_n of_o mouth_n and_o why_o may_v not_o i_o as_o well_o say_v that_o he_o teach_v all_o by_o epistle_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o these_o tradition_n pop._n i_o mean_v all_o the_o tradition_n which_o either_o he_o or_o any_o other_o apostle_n do_v deliver_v all_o these_o you_o be_v bind_v to_o receive_v prot._n i_o will_v not_o quarrel_v with_o you_o for_o that_o bring_v i_o solid_a proof_n of_o any_o of_o your_o unwritten_a tradition_n that_o they_o do_v indeed_o come_v from_o the_o apostle_n i_o promise_v you_o i_o will_v joyful_o receive_v they_o but_o i_o pray_v you_o what_o be_v these_o tradition_n you_o speak_v of_o pop._n such_o as_o these_o the_o doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n invocation_n of_o saint_n of_o the_o pope_n supremacy_n of_o the_o single_a life_n of_o priest_n of_o the_o fast_n of_o the_o church_n private_a mass_n worship_n of_o image_n etc._n etc._n prot._n and_o do_v you_o think_v that_o all_o that_o do_v not_o believe_v and_o receive_v these_o tradition_n shall_v be_v damn_v pop._n no_o by_o no_o mean_n for_o than_o i_o shall_v condemn_v many_o of_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o martyr_n who_o differ_v from_o we_o at_o least_o in_o some_o of_o these_o point_n prot._n then_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o receive_v these_o tradition_n and_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v sufficient_a without_o they_o but_o further_a these_o unwritten_a tradition_n you_o talk_v of_o i_o beseech_v you_o how_o come_v you_o to_o discover_v they_o and_o
&_o 12._o 6._o that_o be_v year_n it_o be_v a_o very_a familiar_a thing_n to_o put_v day_n for_o year_n in_o prophetical_a write_n but_o if_o the_o church_n may_v be_v obscure_v for_o three_o year_n why_o not_o for_o thirty_o yea_o three_o hundred_o do_v christ_n in_o his_o suppose_a promise_n of_o perpetual_a visibility_n in_o the_o church_n make_v a_o exception_n for_o these_o three_o year_n i_o trow_v not_o and_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v you_o shall_v you_o live_v till_o that_o time_n when_o antichrist_n shall_v prevail_v and_o your_o religion_n no_o less_o than_o we_o be_v obscure_a and_o invisible_a if_o any_o of_o the_o follower_n of_o antichrist_n shall_v dispute_v against_o you_o that_o you_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n because_o not_o visible_a will_v you_o grant_v it_o pop._n god_n forbid_v i_o shall_v be_v so_o wicked_a to_o deny_v my_o mother_n and_o church_n because_o of_o her_o affliction_n prot._n then_o i_o see_v you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o believe_v this_o to_o he_o a_o good_a argument_n and_o that_o you_o do_v not_o make_v perpetual_a visibility_n a_o necessary_a token_n of_o the_o true_a church_n to_o this_o i_o add_v there_o be_v no_o need_n we_o shall_v show_v a_o constant_a succession_n of_o protestant_a church_n ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n day_n as_o you_o pretend_v be_v necessary_a the_o succession_n that_o you_o pretend_v in_o your_o church_n be_v sufficient_a for_o we_o and_o so_o long_o as_o we_o general_o agree_v that_o your_o church_n be_v a_o true_a church_n till_o late_a year_n though_o woeful_o corrupt_v and_o our_o predecessor_n continue_v in_o it_o till_o your_o wound_n stink_v and_o become_v incurable_a we_o need_v no_o other_o succession_n than_o you_o but_o when_o your_o impiety_n come_v to_o the_o height_n than_o we_o visible_o depart_v from_o you_o and_o have_v give_v such_o reason_n for_o it_o as_o you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o answer_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n let_v i_o hear_v what_o you_o have_v further_o to_o say_v pop._n for_o as_o much_o as_o all_o your_o minister_n confess_v our_o church_n be_v once_o a_o true_a church_n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o how_o and_o when_o she_o do_v fall_v you_o can_v tell_v either_o the_o time_n when_o she_o fall_v or_o the_o manner_n how_o by_o apostasy_n or_o heresy_n or_o schism_n if_o you_o can_v name_v your_o author_n prot._n this_o be_v a_o most_o unreasonable_a demand_n a_o friend_n of_o i_o have_v the_o plague_n last_o year_n and_o die_v of_o it_o i_o ask_v he_o when_o he_o be_v sick_a how_o and_o when_o he_o get_v it_o he_o say_v he_o know_v not_o shall_v i_o then_o conclude_v he_o have_v it_o not_o shall_v i_o make_v christ_n a_o liar_n and_o dispute_v that_o there_o be_v no_o tare_n because_o they_o be_v sow_v when_o man_n sleep_v mat._n 13._o 25._o and_o so_o can_v not_o know_v when_o or_o how_o they_o come_v shall_v i_o believe_v no_o heresy_n to_o be_v a_o heresy_n unless_o i_o can_v show_v how_o and_o when_o it_o come_v into_o the_o church_n what_o if_o the_o record_n of_o these_o thing_n by_o the_o injury_n of_o time_n be_v lose_v and_o their_o original_n leave_v in_o obscurity_n shall_v i_o therefore_o say_v it_o be_v now_o become_v no_o heresy_n i_o beseech_v you_o answer_v i_o free_o this_o question_n suppose_v i_o can_v bring_v plain_a and_o strong_a evidence_n from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o from_o ancient_a tradition_n or_o the_o unanimous_a testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n that_o your_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n for_o instance_n be_v a_o heresy_n your_o doctrine_n of_o worship_v image_n be_v idolatry_n and_o that_o you_o be_v in_o divers_a particular_n apostatise_v from_o that_o faith_n which_o the_o scripture_n and_o father_n do_v own_o in_o this_o case_n will_v you_o not_o confess_v that_o you_o be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n heresy_n and_o apostasy_n pop._n if_o it_o be_v so_o and_o you_o can_v real_o bring_v as_o you_o false_o pretend_v you_o can_v but_o indeed_o can_v any_o such_o solid_a proof_n i_o must_v and_o will_v confess_v it_o for_o all_o our_o writer_n agree_v that_o although_o we_o must_v believe_v many_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n yet_o we_o must_v believe_v nothing_o contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n nor_o to_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n prot._n very_o well_o hence_o than_o i_o gather_v that_o the_o only_a question_n between_o you_o and_o i_o be_v whether_o we_o can_v evident_o and_o solid_o prove_v the_o particular_n now_o mention_v which_o if_o we_o can_v do_v as_o i_o be_o satisfy_v our_o minister_n have_v do_v you_o be_v convict_v in_o your_o own_o conscience_n and_o will_v confess_v yourself_o and_o your_o church_n guilty_a of_o heresy_n idolatry_n and_o apostasy_n whether_o i_o can_v tell_v the_o manner_n or_o time_n or_o author_n of_o this_o doctrine_n or_o no._n therefore_o leave_v these_o frivolous_a and_o impertinent_a question_n let_v i_o hear_v what_o you_o have_v to_o say_v more_o against_o our_o religion_n and_o whereas_o your_o discourse_n i_o observe_v have_v whole_o run_v upon_o general_n i_o beseech_v you_o come_v to_o some_o particular_n and_o show_v i_o the_o falsehood_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n but_o it_o do_v not_o a_o little_a confirm_v i_o in_o my_o religion_n that_o you_o confess_v as_o i_o show_v before_o most_o of_o our_o doctrine_n to_o be_v true_a and_o ground_v upon_o scripture_n whereas_o you_o be_v addition_n of_o your_o own_o devise_v now_o if_o thing_n be_v thus_o you_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o trouble_v yourself_o about_o many_o particular_n but_o if_o you_o please_v single_a out_o some_o of_o our_o principal_a heresy_n as_o you_o call_v they_o and_o let_v i_o hear_v what_o evidence_n you_o can_v bring_v against_o they_o pop._n your_o heresy_n be_v very_o many_o but_o i_o shall_v mention_v one_o which_o may_v be_v instead_o of_o all_o and_o that_o be_v your_o rule_n of_o faith_n and_o judge_n of_o controversy_n which_o you_o make_v to_o be_v the_o scripture_n only_o prot_n i_o be_o glad_a you_o have_v fall_v upon_o so_o material_a a_o point_n the_o decide_n whereof_o may_v make_v other_o dispute_n in_o great_a part_n useless_a tell_v i_o then_o what_o you_o have_v to_o say_v against_o this_o doctrine_n pop._n i_o will_v urge_v four_o argument_n against_o it_o 1._o scripture_n have_v no_o authority_n over_o we_o but_o from_o the_o church_n 2._o you_o can_v know_v what_o book_n be_v the_o holy_a scripture_n or_o part_n of_o it_o but_o by_o the_o church_n report_n 3._o if_o neither_o of_o these_o be_v true_a yet_o scripture_n be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a rule_n for_o your_o faith_n without_o tradition_n 4._o if_o it_o be_v sufficient_a yet_o it_o be_v so_o obscure_a that_o you_o can_v know_v the_o sense_n of_o it_o without_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o church_n you_o see_v here_o be_v a_o fourfold_a cord_n which_o you_o will_v find_v be_v not_o easy_o break_v prot._n make_v these_o thing_n good_a and_o i_o confess_v you_o do_v your_o work_n in_o a_o great_a measure_n let_v i_o hear_v your_o proof_n pop._n for_o the_o first_o then_o i_o say_v that_o scripture_n have_v no_o authority_n over_o we_o but_o from_o the_o church_n neither_o you_o nor_o i_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n nor_o can_v any_o man_n know_v it_o or_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v so_o but_o from_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o church_n concern_v it_o prot._n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o if_o you_o be_v to_o discourse_v with_o a_o atheist_n who_o utter_o deny_v the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o the_o church_n too_o can_v you_o not_o prove_v against_o he_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n pop._n god_n forbid_v but_o that_o i_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o defend_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n against_o any_o adversary_n whatsoever_o prot._n how_o then_o i_o pray_v you_o will_v you_o prove_v it_o pop._n i_o need_v not_o tell_v you_o the_o argument_n which_o in_o this_o case_n our_o doctor_n use_n and_o i_o stand_v by_o they_o in_o it_o they_o allege_v for_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n the_o testimony_n of_o all_o age_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n the_o miracle_n wrought_v for_o it_o acknowledge_v even_o by_o the_o enemy_n of_o it_o the_o martyrdom_n that_o so_o many_o thousand_o and_o many_o of_o they_o wise_a and_o learned_a man_n do_v run_v upon_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o they_o who_o live_v so_o near_o the_o time_n of_o the_o write_n of_o they_o be_v best_a able_a do_v discern_v the_o truth_n and_o the_o wonderful_a power_n that_o go_v along_o with_o they_o in_o convince_a convert_v and_o comfort_v or_o terrify_v sinner_n prot._n do_v you_o believe_v these_o be_v solid_a argument_n
error_n i_o shall_v comfort_v myself_o in_o this_o that_o i_o have_v deliver_v my_o own_o soul_n your_o blood_n be_v upon_o your_o own_o head_n for_o there_o it_o will_v assure_o fall_v and_o not_o upon_o the_o priest_n only_o mr._n poole_n dialogue_n a_o dialogue_n between_o a_o popish_a priest_n and_o a_o english_a protestant_n pop._n dear_o friend_n i_o be_o glad_a to_o meet_v with_o you_o after_o so_o long_a a_o separation_n for_o i_o remember_v we_o be_v bring_v up_o at_o the_o same_o school_n and_o i_o rejoice_v in_o the_o opportunity_n of_o renew_v our_o acquaintance_n i_o desire_v a_o little_a discourse_n with_o you_o to_o understand_v how_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o point_n of_o religion_n prot._n i_o be_o of_o the_o protestant_n reform_v religion_n pop._n i_o be_o hearty_o sorry_a for_o it_o in_o regard_n of_o our_o old_a intimacy_n but_o if_o you_o will_v give_v i_o leave_v i_o do_v not_o question_v but_o in_o a_o very_a little_a time_n to_o give_v you_o such_o reason_n as_o will_v force_v you_o to_o leave_v those_o damnable_a error_n and_o to_o return_v to_o your_o ancient_a mother_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n prot._n with_o a_o very_a good_a will_n shall_v i_o yield_v myself_o to_o your_o instruction_n i_o desire_v nothing_o more_o than_o true_a information_n i_o know_v i_o have_v a_o soul_n to_o save_v which_o be_v of_o infinite_a worth_n and_o i_o be_o not_o fond_a of_o damnation_n therefore_o if_o you_o give_v i_o better_a ground_n than_o i_o have_v you_o shall_v not_o find_v i_o obstinate_a but_o this_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o you_o must_v not_o put_v i_o off_o with_o fancy_n and_o bare_a affirmation_n but_o i_o shall_v expect_v solid_a proof_n of_o what_o you_o say_v from_o scripture_n or_o reason_n and_o now_o speak_v what_o you_o please_v pop._n first_o my_o dear_a friend_n i_o must_v entreat_v you_o to_o consider_v that_o which_o your_o own_o minister_n teach_v you_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n to_o be_v have_v out_o of_o the_o true_a catholic_n church_n which_o be_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n prot._n that_o none_o be_v save_v out_o of_o the_o true_a catholic_n church_n i_o grant_v for_o the_o catholic_n church_n include_v all_o believer_n in_o the_o world_n but_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v that_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a nor_o of_o any_o particular_a church_n for_o although_o you_o engross_v to_o yourselves_o the_o name_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n nothing_o be_v more_o clear_a than_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v at_o best_a but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o that_o a_o very_a unsound_a one_o too_o and_o there_o be_v a_o false_a church_n in_o which_o salvation_n can_v ordinary_o be_v have_v as_o well_o as_o a_o true_a church_n out_o of_o which_o it_o can_v ordinary_o be_v have_v and_o i_o have_v hear_v more_o to_o prove_v you_o to_o be_v this_o false_a church_n than_o i_o be_o able_a to_o answer_v or_o you_o either_o as_o i_o suppose_v therefore_o this_o be_v only_o a_o general_a and_o so_o a_o unconcluding_a argument_n i_o desire_v you_o to_o come_v close_o to_o the_o point_n pop._n then_o i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consider_v the_o danger_n of_o your_o way_n and_o the_o safety_n of_o we_o since_o all_o your_o minister_n confess_v that_o a_o roman_n catholic_n may_v be_v save_v in_o his_o religion_n but_o all_o our_o church_n unanimous_o declare_v that_o you_o be_v damn_v if_o you_o live_v and_o die_v in_o your_o religion_n prot._n you_o call_v we_o schismatic_n but_o by_o this_o argument_n you_o prove_v yourselves_o to_o be_v so_o for_o i_o have_v oft_o hear_v it_o that_o in_o the_o very_a same_o manner_n those_o infamous_a schismatic_n the_o donatist_n argue_v against_o st._n austin_n and_o the_o catholic_n church_n that_o he_o confess_v salvation_n be_v to_o be_v have_v in_o their_o church_n which_o they_o affirm_v be_v not_o to_o be_v have_v in_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o this_o very_a thing_n be_v by_o st._n austin_n and_o the_o church_n of_o that_o age_n condemn_v as_o their_o great_a schismatical_a principle_n but_o let_v that_o pass_v to_o come_v to_o your_o argument_n remember_v the_o condition_n i_o make_v with_o you_o that_o you_o do_v not_o put_v i_o off_o with_o fancy_n and_o bare_a affirmation_n for_o i_o expect_v you_o shall_v make_v good_a every_o word_n you_o say_v now_o here_o i_o find_v you_o under_o a_o great_a mistake_n and_o though_o i_o have_v hear_v it_o most_o confident_o deliver_v by_o divers_a of_o your_o brethren_n yet_o you_o must_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o believe_v my_o own_o eye_n and_o ear_n i_o read_v it_o in_o divers_a book_n of_o our_o learned_a english_a divine_n and_o i_o have_v hear_v it_o from_o divers_a very_o able_a scholar_n and_o minister_n that_o popery_n in_o these_o time_n and_o place_n of_o light_n be_v to_o those_o that_o may_v see_v that_o light_n and_o will_v not_o not_o only_o dangerous_a but_o damnable_a nor_o do_v i_o pin_v my_o faith_n upon_o their_o sleeve_n but_o they_o have_v give_v i_o not_o mere_a affirmation_n as_o you_o do_v but_o such_o argument_n as_o i_o confess_v i_o can_v answer_v yet_o if_o you_o can_v i_o shall_v be_v ready_a to_o hearken_v to_o you_o pop._n it_o be_v easy_a to_o say_v in_o general_a that_o our_o religion_n be_v dangerous_a or_o damnable_a but_o i_o beseech_v you_o show_v i_o wherein_o which_o be_v those_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o we_o wherein_n the_o danger_n lie_v prot._n i_o will_v instance_n in_o few_o of_o many_o particular_n first_o that_o idolatry_n be_v a_o damnable_a sin_n your_o own_o author_n grant_v and_o scripture_n express_o affirm_v idolater_n shall_v not_o inherit_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n 1_o cor._n 6._o 9_o 10._o and_o rev._n 21._o 8._o &_o 22._o 15._o and_o that_o your_o church_n be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n especial_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o of_o the_o host_n or_o consecrate_a bread_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o all_o protestant_a church_n and_o i_o shall_v prove_v it_o before_o you_o and_o i_o have_v do_v second_o that_o the_o worshipper_n of_o the_o babylonish_n beast_n rev._n 13._o and_o 14._o be_v in_o a_o damnable_a condition_n you_o all_o grant_v and_o it_o be_v affirm_v by_o god_n himself_o rev._n 14._o 8_o 9_o 10_o 11._o and_o that_o rome_n be_v that_o babylon_n the_o most_o and_o learnede_a of_o your_o doctor_n agree_v only_o some_o of_o they_o pretend_v it_o be_v rome_n heathen_a as_o it_o be_v and_o other_o that_o it_o be_v rome_n jewish_a as_o it_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n both_o which_o conceit_n be_v full_o refute_v by_o divers_a of_o our_o author_n three_o that_o it_o be_v high_o dangerous_a to_o trust_v in_o man_n and_o to_o trust_v in_o our_o own_o righteousness_n sufficient_o appear_v from_o jer._n 17._o 5._o curse_a be_v he_o that_o trust_v in_o man_n and_o from_o that_o dreadful_a example_n of_o the_o jew_n who_o go_v about_o to_o establish_v their_o own_o righteousness_n do_v not_o submit_v to_o and_o therefore_o lose_v the_o benefit_n of_o the_o righteousness_n of_o faith_n rom._n 10._o 3._o and_o that_o you_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o sin_n in_o trust_v to_o saint_n and_o to_o your_o own_o merit_n shall_v appear_v in_o the_o follow_a discourse_n four_o it_o be_v dangerous_a to_o add_v to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o this_o your_o church_n be_v not_o only_o deep_o guilty_a of_o in_o add_v their_o tradition_n trident._n to_o be_v receive_v with_o equal_a reverence_n to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o oblige_v all_o its_o member_n to_o justify_v those_o addition_n and_o thereby_o entitle_v they_o to_o the_o same_o plague_n with_o themselves_o five_o to_o name_n no_o more_o it_o be_v high_o dangerous_a to_o break_v any_o of_o god_n command_n and_o to_o teach_v man_n so_o and_o to_o make_v the_o word_n of_o god_n of_o none_o effect_v by_o humane_a tradition_n we_o know_v what_o woe_n christ_n pronounce_v against_o the_o pharisee_n for_o these_o thing_n and_o this_o your_o church_n be_v deep_o guilty_a of_o as_o in_o many_o other_o particular_n so_o most_o eminent_o in_o this_o that_o you_o profess_v no_o man_n be_v oblige_v to_o receive_v the_o scripture_n as_o the_o word_n of_o god_n nor_o to_o believe_v any_o thing_n in_o it_o but_o for_o the_o testimony_n of_o your_o church_n 4._o by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o you_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o boast_v of_o the_o safeness_n of_o your_o way_n and_o as_o for_o your_o threat_n of_o damnation_n to_o all_o that_o do_v not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o your_o church_n and_o pope_n however_o they_o may_v terrify_v silly_a people_n yet_o take_v it_o from_o i_o to_o prudent_a man_n it_o be_v rather_o a_o argument_n of_o
fall_n so_o that_o if_o this_o text_n and_o prayer_n reach_v to_o your_o pope_n it_o shall_v rather_o secure_v they_o from_o damnable_a apostasy_n in_o practice_n which_o you_o confess_v many_o of_o they_o fall_v into_o and_o die_v in_o then_o from_o heresy_n of_o which_o this_o text_n speak_v not_o at_o all_o but_o have_v you_o no_o other_o argument_n pop._n yes_o there_o be_v one_o more_o which_o be_v sufficient_a if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o and_o that_o be_v from_o god_n providence_n it_o be_v unbecoming_a the_o wisdom_n of_o god_n to_o leave_v his_o church_n without_o a_o guide_n or_o infallible_a judge_n by_o which_o mean_v there_o will_v be_v no_o end_n of_o controversy_n and_o since_o you_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o have_v any_o such_o in_o your_o church_n it_o must_v be_v in_o we_o or_o else_o there_o be_v none_o in_o the_o world_n prot._n i_o have_v think_v you_o will_v have_v only_o teach_v i_o but_o now_o it_o seem_v you_o will_v teach_v god_n how_o to_o govern_v the_o world_n it_o shall_v seem_v to_o i_o that_o god_n be_v not_o of_o your_o mind_n he_o do_v not_o think_v fit_a to_o end_v all_o controversy_n but_o to_o permit_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v heresy_n 1_o cor._n 11._o 19_o and_o if_o god_n in_o his_o wisdom_n think_v a_o infallible_a judge_n necessary_a certain_o that_o same_o wisdom_n will_v have_v name_v the_o place_n person_n or_o person_n where_o people_n shall_v have_v find_v this_o infallibility_n be_v it_o ever_o know_v since_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n that_o any_o prince_n constitute_v judge_n in_o his_o kingdom_n not_o so_o much_o as_o give_v notice_n to_o his_o people_n who_o they_o be_v to_o who_o they_o must_v resort_v for_o justice_n this_o god_n have_v not_o do_v for_o you_o do_v not_o pretend_v a_o particular_a place_n which_o settle_v this_o infallible_a judge_n at_o rome_n but_o only_o some_o general_n and_o fallacious_a argument_n as_o i_o have_v prove_v and_o beside_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v evident_a that_o yourselves_o be_v not_o agree_v about_o it_o but_o some_o seek_v for_o this_o infallible_a judgement_n in_o the_o pope_n other_o in_o a_o general_n council_n and_o these_o do_v as_o fierce_o dispute_v one_o against_o another_o in_o this_o point_n as_o you_o do_v against_o we_o in_o many_o other_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v much_o more_o rational_a for_o i_o to_o conclude_v thus_o god_n have_v not_o nominate_v and_o appoint_v such_o a_o infallible_a judge_n in_o the_o church_n therefore_o there_o be_v none_o and_o it_o be_v not_o fit_a there_o shall_v be_v one_o than_o saucy_o to_o undertake_v to_o be_v the_o counsellor_n of_o the_o almighty_a and_o to_o tell_v he_o what_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v do_v and_o then_o conclude_v that_o it_o be_v do_v in_o short_a for_o controversy_n about_o fundamental_a and_o necessary_a thing_n god_n have_v provide_v sufficient_a mean_n for_o the_o end_n of_o they_o have_v clear_o enough_o determine_v they_o in_o his_o word_n for_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o all_o that_o be_v diligent_a and_o humble_a and_o teachable_a and_o for_o controversy_n of_o lesser_a moment_n there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o have_v they_o end_v nor_o will_v they_o be_v much_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o church_n if_o man_n will_v learn_v to_o give_v any_o allowance_n for_o the_o infirmity_n of_o humane_a nature_n and_o exercise_v that_o great_a and_o necessary_a duty_n of_o charity_n and_o mutual_a forbearance_n but_o since_o this_o be_v all_o you_o can_v say_v upon_o this_o particular_a i_o pray_v you_o let_v i_o hear_v what_o other_o argument_n you_o have_v against_o our_o church_n and_o doctrine_n pop._n then_o another_o argument_n against_o your_o church_n and_o way_n be_v take_v from_o the_o novelty_n of_o it_o as_o for_o our_o religion_n it_o have_v have_v possession_n in_o the_o world_n ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n day_n but_o you_o be_v of_o yesterday_n and_o know_v nothing_o your_o religion_n be_v a_o upstart_n religion_n never_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o world_n till_o luther_n day_n prot._n first_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o this_o question_n if_o you_o have_v live_v in_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n or_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o of_o the_o primitive_a father_n what_o will_v you_o have_v answer_v for_o yourself_o you_o know_v better_o than_o i_o that_o this_o be_v the_o very_a argument_n which_o jew_n and_o heathen_n urge_v against_o the_o christian_n then_o they_o charge_v christ_n with_o not_o walk_v after_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o elder_n matth._n 7._o 5._o and_o the_o athenian_n say_v to_o paul_n may_v we_o know_v what_o this_o new_a doctrine_n be_v act._n 17._o 19_o and_o the_o pharisee_n have_v antiquity_n on_o their_o side_n be_v zealous_a for_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o father_n gal._n 1._o 14._o and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o apostle_n have_v the_o first_o antiquity_n for_o they_o deliver_v nothing_o but_o what_o for_o substance_n be_v in_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n act._n 26._o 22._o which_o also_o be_v our_o case_n yet_o the_o immediate_a and_o latter_a antiquity_n be_v against_o they_o and_o for_o divers_a age_n together_o these_o doctrine_n have_v be_v in_o great_a measure_n obscure_v and_o unknown_a what_o then_o will_v you_o have_v answer_v to_o a_o jew_n or_o a_o heathen_a object_v this_o novelty_n to_o you_o learn_v from_o christ_n who_o when_o the_o jew_n plead_v for_o the_o continuance_n of_o their_o old_a practice_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o divorce_n he_o account_v it_o sufficient_a confutation_n that_o from_o the_o beginning_n it_o be_v not_o so_o mat._n 19_o 7._o and_o to_o all_o the_o pretence_n of_o the_o pharisee_n from_o antiquity_n he_o oppose_v this_o one_o thing_n search_v the_o scripture_n john_n 5._o 39_o so_o you_o dispute_v against_o we_o with_o the_o argument_n which_o the_o pharisee_n use_v against_o christ_n and_o we_o answer_v you_o as_o he_o answer_v they_o beside_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o this_o question_n if_o i_o can_v clear_o prove_v to_o you_o all_o the_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o disprove_v the_o point_n of_o you_o from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n tell_v i_o will_v you_o then_o acknowledge_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o protestant_a religion_n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o pretend_a novelty_n pop._n yes_o certain_o for_o we_o all_o confess_v the_o truth_n of_o all_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n prot._n hence_o than_o it_o follow_v undeniable_o that_o the_o main_a thing_n that_o you_o and_o i_o must_v look_v to_o in_o our_o faith_n be_v that_o it_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o if_o we_o be_v so_o as_o i_o be_o full_o persuade_v it_o be_v and_o you_o the_o contrary_a neither_o antiquity_n be_v any_o argument_n for_o you_o nor_o novelty_n against_o we_o beside_o when_o you_o charge_v our_o church_n with_o novelty_n i_o suppose_v you_o mean_v that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v new_a pop._n i_o do_v so_o prot._n then_o you_o can_v just_o charge_v we_o with_o novelty_n for_o 1._o you_o confess_v the_o antiquity_n and_o verity_n of_o most_o of_o our_o fundamental_a doctrine_n and_o yourselves_o do_v approve_v they_o only_o you_o make_v addition_n of_o your_o own_o to_o they_o you_o own_o all_o the_o scripture_n in_o our_o bible_n only_o you_o add_v the_o apocrypha_fw-la you_o acknowledge_v scripture_n the_o rule_n of_o faith_n only_o you_o add_v tradition_n we_o believe_v all_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o chillingworth_n belief_n whereof_o the_o ancient_a father_n think_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o four_o first_o general_n council_n as_o you_o do_v also_o you_o own_o our_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n satisfaction_n and_o justification_n by_o christ_n and_o faith_n only_o you_o add_v your_o own_o work_n and_o satisfaction_n our_o two_o sacrament_n you_o approve_v only_o you_o add_v five_o more_o our_o doctrine_n of_o the_o two_o state_n of_o man_n in_o heaven_n and_o hell_n you_o own_o only_o you_o add_v purgatory_n you_o own_o christ_n for_o your_o mediator_n and_o prayer_n to_o god_n through_o he_o only_o you_o add_v other_o mediator_n our_o worship_n of_o god_n you_o own_o only_o you_o add_v image_n these_o be_v the_o principal_a point_n of_o our_o religion_n and_o dare_v you_o now_o say_v that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v new_a 2._o many_o of_o your_o able_a doctor_n confess_v that_o divers_a of_o the_o peculiar_a doctrine_n of_o your_o church_n be_v new_a and_o unknown_a to_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o it_o be_v most_o evident_a and_o undeniable_a concern_v indulgence_n purgatory_n communion_n in_o one_o kind_n worship_n in_o a_o strange_a tongue_n the_o receive_v some_o of_o your_o apocryphal_a book_n transubstantiation_n especial_o as_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o pope_n infallibility_n worship_n of_o image_n
deny_v of_o the_o read_n of_o scripture_n to_o the_o people_n and_o other_o and_o will_v you_o yet_o brag_v of_o the_o antiquity_n of_o your_o religion_n 3._o these_o doctrine_n wherein_o we_o differ_v from_o you_o have_v be_v not_o only_o prove_v from_o scripture_n but_o from_o the_o plain_a testimony_n of_o ancient_a father_n as_o i_o think_v none_o can_v doubt_v that_o lay_v aside_o prejudices_fw-la shall_v read_v what_o our_o jewel_n and_o morton_n and_o field_n and_o other_o have_v write_v how_o then_o can_v you_o have_v the_o confidence_n to_o charge_v we_o with_o novelty_n pop._n your_o church_n be_v new_a in_o this_o respect_n that_o although_o some_o other_o before_o you_o may_v own_v some_o of_o your_o doctrine_n there_o be_v no_o church_n that_o own_v all_o your_o doctrine_n both_o positive_a and_o negative_a prot._n that_o be_v not_o necessary_a i_o hope_v every_o alteration_n of_o doctrine_n of_o less_o moment_n do_v not_o make_v the_o church_n new_a if_o it_o do_v it_o be_v most_o certain_a that_o your_o church_n be_v new_a also_o for_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a than_o that_o the_o catholic_n church_n nay_o even_o your_o own_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o ancient_o in_o former_a age_n hold_v all_o these_o doctrine_n which_o now_o she_o own_v as_o your_o own_o great_a author_n confess_v this_o be_v sufficient_a that_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o most_o former_a age_n have_v own_v all_o our_o substantial_a doctrine_n but_o what_o have_v you_o further_a to_o say_v pop._n it_o be_v sufficient_a against_o you_o that_o your_o church_n be_v schismatical_a and_o you_o be_v all_o guilty_a of_o schism_n in_o depart_v from_o the_o true_a catholic_n church_n which_o be_v but_o one_o and_o that_o be_v the_o roman_n prot._n i_o desire_v to_o know_v of_o you_o whether_o in_o no_o case_n a_o man_n may_v separate_v from_o the_o church_n whereof_o he_o be_v a_o member_n without_o schism_n pop._n yes_o certain_o if_o there_o be_v sufficient_a cause_n for_o it_o for_o the_o apostle_n do_v separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n after_o christ_n death_n and_o the_o orthodox_n separate_v from_o the_o arrian_n church_n and_o all_o communion_n with_o they_o yet_o none_o ever_o charge_v they_o with_o schism_n prot._n since_o you_o mention_v that_o instance_n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o why_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o arrian_n pop._n because_o they_o hold_v this_o heresy_n that_o christ_n be_v a_o creature_n and_o not_o the_o true_a god_n prot._n very_o well_o hence_o than_o i_o conclude_v that_o if_o your_o church_n do_v hold_v any_o heresy_n and_o require_v all_o her_o member_n to_o own_v it_o too_o it_o be_v no_o schism_n for_o we_o to_o separate_v from_o you_o pop._n that_o must_v needs_o be_v grant_v but_o this_o be_v but_o a_o slander_n of_o you_o for_o our_o church_n hold_v no_o such_o heresy_n prot._n your_o church_n do_v not_o hold_v one_o but_o many_o dangerous_a error_n and_o heresy_n as_o i_o do_v not_o doubt_v to_o manifest_v ere_o you_o and_o i_o part_v and_o if_o you_o please_v we_o will_v leave_v the_o present_a argumeut_n to_o this_o issue_n if_o i_o do_v not_o prove_v your_o church_n guilty_a of_o heresy_n and_o the_o imposition_n of_o it_o too_o i_o be_o content_a you_o shall_v charge_v we_o with_o schism_n if_o i_o do_v you_o shall_v mention_v it_o no_o more_o pop._n you_o speak_v reason_n let_v it_o rest_v there_o prot._n beside_o methinks_v you_o deal_v barbarous_o with_o we_o you_o drive_v we_o out_o from_o you_o by_o your_o tyranny_n and_o then_o you_o blame_v we_o for_o depart_v as_o if_o sarah_n have_v call_v hagar_n a_o schismatic_a for_o go_v out_o of_o abraham_n family_n from_o which_o she_o force_v she_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v you_o if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o that_o i_o must_v depart_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n or_o from_o god_n what_o must_v i_o do_v pop._n the_o case_n be_v plain_a you_o must_v rather_o depart_v from_o that_o church_n prot._n this_o be_v the_o case_n if_o i_o do_v not_o depart_v from_o your_o church_n she_o will_v force_v i_o to_o live_v in_o many_o mortal_a sin_n i_o must_v believe_v a_o hundred_o lie_n i_o must_v worship_v the_o cross_n and_o relic_n and_o image_n which_o god_n command_v i_o under_o pain_n of_o his_o high_a displeasure_n not_o to_o worship_v i_o must_v worship_v the_o sacrament_n with_o divine_a worship_n which_o i_o be_o assure_v be_v no_o other_o for_o substance_n than_o bread_n for_o your_o church_n be_v not_o content_a to_o hold_v these_o opinion_n but_o she_o enjoin_v these_o practice_n to_o all_o her_o member_n and_o if_o thing_n be_v thus_o i_o think_v you_o will_v not_o have_v the_o confidence_n any_o more_o to_o charge_v we_o with_o schism_n for_o obey_v the_o command_n of_o god_n to_o come_v out_o of_o babylon_n since_o you_o force_v all_o your_o member_n to_o partake_v with_o you_o in_o your_o sin_n rev._n 18._o 4._o beside_o all_o this_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o upon_o what_o account_v you_o charge_v we_o with_o schism_n pop._n for_o depart_v from_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o from_o your_o mother_n church_n of_o rome_n and_o from_o the_o pope_n who_o subject_n once_o you_o be_v prot._n if_o then_o i_o can_v prove_v that_o we_o be_v not_o depart_v from_o the_o catholic_n church_n nor_o from_o our_o mother_n church_n nor_o from_o any_o of_o that_o subjection_n we_o owe_v to_o the_o pope_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v acquit_v we_o from_o schism_n pop._n that_o i_o can_v deny_v prot._n then_o this_o danger_n be_v over_o for_o 1._o we_o never_o do_v depart_v from_o the_o catholic_n church_n which_o be_v not_o your_o particular_a roman_a church_n as_o you_o most_o ridiculous_o call_v it_o but_o the_o whole_a multitude_n of_o believer_n and_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n nay_o the_o truth_n be_v you_o be_v the_o schismatic_n in_o renounce_v all_o communion_n with_o all_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n except_o your_o own_o which_o be_v equal_a to_o you_o in_o number_n and_o many_o of_o they_o far_o superior_a in_o true_a piety_n next_o we_o do_v not_o own_v you_o for_o our_o mother_n jerusalem_n which_o be_v above_o not_o babylon_n that_o be_v beneath_o be_v the_o mother_n of_o we_o all_o if_o we_o grant_v now_o you_o be_v a_o true_a church_n yet_o you_o be_v but_o a_o sister_n church_n pop._n you_o forget_v that_o you_o receive_v the_o gospel_n from_o our_o hand_n prot._n suppose_v we_o do_v real_o so_o do_v that_o give_v you_o authority_n over_o we_o if_o it_o do_v not_o rome_n but_o jerusalem_n shall_v be_v the_o mother_n church_n from_o who_o you_o also_o receive_v the_o gospel_n this_o you_o deny_v which_o show_v that_o you_o do_v not_o believe_v your_o own_o argument_n to_o be_v good_a and_o for_o the_o pope_n universal_a and_o infallible_a authority_n which_o he_o pretend_v over_o all_o christian_n i_o have_v diligent_o read_v your_o argument_n for_o it_o and_o i_o free_o profess_v to_o you_o i_o find_v your_o pretence_n both_o from_o scripture_n and_o father_n so_o weak_a and_o frivolous_a that_o i_o dare_v commend_v it_o to_o any_o understanding_n and_o disintere_v person_n as_o a_o most_o likely_a mean_n to_o convince_v he_o of_o the_o vanity_n and_o falseness_n of_o that_o doctrine_n that_o he_o will_v peruse_v any_o of_o your_o best_a author_n and_o the_o very_a sight_n of_o the_o weakness_n and_o impertinency_n of_o your_o argument_n will_v abundant_o satisfy_v he_o of_o the_o badness_n of_o your_o cause_n pop._n you_o have_v no_o minister_n because_o you_o have_v no_o uninterrupted_a succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n as_o we_o have_v and_o therefore_o you_o have_v on_o church_n and_o therefore_o no_o salvation_n prot._n i_o observe_v you_o take_v the_o same_o course_n that_o the_o adversary_n of_o the_o gospel_n ever_o do_v who_o when_o they_o can_v not_o reprove_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n they_o quarrel_v with_o they_o for_o want_v of_o a_o call_v as_o you_o may_v see_v john_n 1._o 25._o mat._n 21._o 23._o act._n 4._o 7._o but_o the_o good_a christian_n of_o that_o time_n take_v another_o course_n and_o examine_v not_o so_o much_o the_o call_v of_o the_o person_n as_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o doctrine_n act._n 8._o 17._o it_o seem_v to_o i_o a_o secret_a confession_n of_o your_o guilt_n and_o the_o error_n of_o your_o doctrine_n that_o you_o be_v so_o careful_a to_o turn_v off_o man_n eye_n from_o that_o to_o a_o far_o mean_a point_n but_o tell_v i_o do_v you_o believe_v that_o such_o a_o uninterrupted_a succession_n of_o minister_n from_o the_o apostle_n be_v absolute_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n pop._n yes_o very_o or_o else_o this_o argument_n signify_v nothing_o prot._n how_o then_o can_v you_o convince_v i_o
and_o that_o the_o atheist_n ought_v to_o yield_v to_o they_o pop._n yes_o doubtless_o for_o every_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o receive_v the_o truth_n especial_o when_o it_o be_v so_o propose_v and_o prove_v to_o he_o prot._n it_o seem_v then_o by_o this_o when_o you_o list_v you_o can_v prove_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n without_o take_v in_o the_o church_n authority_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v allow_v i_o the_o same_o benefit_n but_o again_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o your_o church_n that_o you_o talk_v of_o which_o believe_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n do_v she_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n upon_o solid_a ground_n or_o no_o pop._n yes_o doubtless_o our_o church_n be_v not_o so_o irrational_a as_o to_o believe_v without_o ground_n nor_o do_v we_o pretend_v revelation_n but_o she_o believe_v it_o upon_o solid_a argument_n prot._n i_o wish_v you_o will_v give_v i_o a_o list_n of_o their_o argument_n but_o whatever_o they_o be_v that_o be_v sufficient_a to_o convince_v your_o church_n why_o shall_v they_o not_o be_v sufficient_a to_o convince_v any_o private_a man_n popish_a or_o protestant_n or_o atheist_n and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o the_o church_n testimony_n or_o will_v you_o say_v the_o church_n have_v no_o other_o sufficient_a reason_n to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n but_o her_o own_o testimony_n that_o be_v she_o believe_v because_o she_o will_v believe_v pop._n god_n forbid_v that_o i_o shall_v disparage_v the_o church_n or_o give_v atheist_n that_o occasion_n to_o scoff_n at_o the_o stripture_n prot._n then_o i_o also_o may_v be_v satisfy_v without_o the_o church_n testimony_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o i_o be_o so_o by_o such_o argument_n as_o yourself_o mention_v but_o real_o i_o can_v but_o smile_v to_o see_v what_o cunning_a sophister_n you_o be_v how_o you_o play_v at_o fast_o and_o loose_a the_o same_o argument_n for_o the_o scripture_n be_v strong_a and_o undeniable_a when_o you_o talk_v with_o a_o atheist_n and_o be_v all_o of_o a_o sudden_a become_v weak_a as_o water_v when_o a_o protestant_n bring_v they_o pop._n but_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v in_o the_o general_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n yet_o you_o can_v without_o the_o church_n authority_n tell_v what_o book_n of_o scripture_n or_o which_o be_v canonical_a and_o so_o you_o be_v never_o the_o near_o prot._n here_o also_o i_o must_v ask_v you_o again_o how_o do_v your_o church_n know_v which_o book_n be_v scripture_n and_o canonical_a do_v she_o know_v this_o by_o revelation_n pop._n no_o we_o leave_v such_o fancy_n to_o your_o church_n prot._n how_o then_o do_v she_o know_v this_o and_o why_o do_v she_o determine_v it_o be_v it_o with_o reason_n or_o without_o it_o pop._n with_o reason_n doubtless_o be_v induce_v to_o believe_v and_o determine_v it_o upon_o clear_a and_o undoubted_a evidence_n prot._n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o what_o be_v those_o evidence_n upon_o which_o she_o go_v pop._n i_o will_v be_v true_a to_o you_o our_o great_a bellarmine_n mention_n these_o three_o the_o church_n say_v he_o know_v and_o declare_v a_o canonical_a book_n 1._o from_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_n 2._o from_o its_o likeness_n and_o agreement_n with_o other_o book_n 3._o from_o the_o common_a sense_n and_o taste_v of_o christian_a people_n dicimus_fw-la prot._n since_o a_o private_a man_n especial_o one_o that_o beside_o learning_n and_o experience_n have_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n to_o guide_v he_o which_o be_v that_o anoint_v give_v to_o all_o believer_n which_o teach_v they_o all_o thing_n 1_o joh._n 2._o 27._o may_v examine_v and_o apprehend_v these_o thing_n as_o well_o as_o the_o pope_n himself_o and_o better_a too_o consider_v what_o kind_n of_o creature_n divers_a of_o your_o pope_n be_v confess_v to_o have_v be_v he_o may_v therefore_o know_v without_o the_o church_n authority_n what_o book_n be_v indeed_o canonical_a but_o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o do_v not_o you_o acknowledge_v those_o book_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o we_o do_v that_o be_v in_o this_o bible_n pop._n i_o must_v be_v true_a to_o you_o we_o do_v own_o every_o book_n you_o have_v there_o but_o you_o shall_v receive_v the_o book_n which_o you_o call_v apocryphal_a so_o that_o indeed_o your_o bible_n be_v not_o complete_a for_o you_o believe_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n which_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o be_v of_o dangerous_a consequence_n prot._n if_o these_o book_n be_v a_o part_n of_o god_n word_n i_o confess_v we_o be_v guilty_a of_o a_o great_a sin_n in_o take_v away_o from_o god_n word_n and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o you_o be_v no_o less_o guilty_a in_o add_v to_o it_o so_o that_o the_o only_a question_n be_v whether_o these_o book_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n or_o no_o now_o that_o if_o you_o please_v we_o will_v try_v bellarmine_n rule_n pop._n the_o motion_n be_v fair_a and_o reasonable_a prot._n first_o then_o for_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n let_v we_o try_v that_o i_o know_v you_o hold_v the_o church_n judgement_n infallible_a especial_o in_o matter_n of_o this_o moment_n and_o i_o suppose_v you_o think_v the_o jewish_a church_n be_v infallible_a before_o christ_n as_o the_o christian_a church_n now_o be_v pop._n we_o do_v so_o and_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n and_o high_a priest_n deut._n 17._o be_v one_o of_o our_o principal_a argument_n for_o the_o infallibility_n of_o our_o church_n 2._o prot._n then_o only_o these_o book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v canonical_a which_o the_o jewish_a church_n do_v own_o pop._n that_o must_v necessary_o follow_v prot._n then_o your_o cause_n be_v lose_v for_o it_o be_v certain_a the_o jew_n reject_v these_o apocryphal_a book_n which_o you_o receive_v and_o they_o reckon_v only_o 22._o josephus_n his_o word_n acknowledge_v for_o his_o by_o eusebius_n 310._o be_v most_o express_a for_o we_o the_o jew_n have_v only_o 22_o book_n to_o which_o they_o deserve_o give_v credit_v which_o contain_v thing_n write_v from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n to_o the_o time_n of_o artaxerxes_n other_o thing_n be_v write_v afterward_o so_o the_o apocryphal_a book_n be_v grant_v to_o have_v be_v but_o they_o be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o credit_n with_o the_o former_a because_o there_o be_v no_o certain_a succession_n of_o prophet_n 1._o and_o i_o be_o tell_v divers_a of_o your_o learned_a author_n confess_v it_o as_o catharinus_n maccab._n costerus_n lib._n marianus_n victor_n hieronymi_n and_o bellarmine_n himself_o who_o word_n be_v these_o all_o those_o book_n which_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o receive_v the_o jew_n also_o do_v not_o receive_v principio_fw-la and_o this_o be_v more_o considerable_a because_o to_o the_o jew_n be_v commit_v the_o oracle_n of_o god_n rom._n 3._o 2._o and_o neither_o christ_n nor_o his_o apostle_n do_v accuse_v they_o of_o breach_n of_o trust_n in_o this_o matter_n moreover_o i_o be_o tell_v and_o sure_o in_o all_o reason_n it_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a that_o the_o canonical_a book_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n be_v write_v in_o the_o jewish_a or_o hebrew_a language_n whereas_o these_o be_v write_v in_o greek_a only_o be_v these_o thing_n so_o pop._n what_o be_v true_a i_o will_v acknowledge_v it_o be_v so_o the_o jewish_a church_n indeed_o do_v not_o receive_v they_o nor_o yet_o do_v they_o reject_v they_o as_o our_o canus_n well_o answer_v 11._o prot._n either_o that_o church_n do_v believe_v they_o to_o be_v canonical_a or_o they_o do_v not_o if_o they_o do_v than_o they_o live_v in_o a_o mortal_a sin_n against_o conscience_n in_o not_o receive_v they_o if_o they_o do_v not_o they_o be_v of_o our_o opinion_n pop._n well_o what_o soever_o the_o jewish_a church_n do_v i_o be_o sure_a the_o ancient_a christian_n and_o father_n do_v receive_v these_o book_n as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n prot._n i_o doubt_v i_o shall_v take_v you_o tardy_a there_o too_o i_o be_o tell_v that_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n in_o the_o year_n of_o our_o lord_n 364._o draw_v up_o a_o catalogue_n of_o the_o book_n of_o the_o scripture_n in_o which_o as_o in_o we_o the_o apocryphal_a book_n be_v reject_v pop._n it_o be_v true_a they_o do_v not_o receive_v they_o nor_o yet_o reject_v they_o prot._n if_o they_o do_v not_o receive_v they_o that_o undeniable_o show_v that_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v they_o to_o be_v canonical_a and_o yet_o they_o diligent_o scan_v the_o point_n and_o the_o book_n have_v then_o be_v extant_a some_o hundred_o of_o year_n and_o they_o be_v far_o more_o likely_a to_o know_v the_o truth_n than_o we_o at_o this_o distance_n have_v then_o
remission_n of_o punishment_n which_o be_v procure_v by_o indulgence_n in_o that_o case_n it_o be_v not_o inconvenient_a that_o the_o rich_a be_v in_o a_o better_a condition_n than_o the_o poor_a for_o there_o it_o be_v not_o say_v come_v and_o buy_v without_o money_n ibid._n i_o confess_v that_o be_v a_o dangerous_a speech_n and_o will_v utter_o undo_v all_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n it_o be_v sufficient_a that_o isaiah_n once_o say_v it_o and_o christ_n again_o come_v and_o drink_v free_o people_n shall_v have_v be_v wise_a and_o take_v they_o at_o their_o word_n for_o they_o be_v never_o like_a to_o hear_v it_o a_o three_o time_n be_v this_o true_a pop._n they_o do_v indeed_o say_v so_o and_o the_o practice_n of_o our_o church_n manifest_v to_o all_o the_o world_n that_o indulgence_n be_v sell_v for_o money_n and_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o rich_a in_o that_o be_v better_a than_o the_o poor_a but_o what_o great_a matter_n be_v that_o as_o to_o the_o pardon_n of_o sin_n and_o eternal_a life_n or_o death_n both_o rich_a and_o poor_a be_v alike_o this_o difference_n be_v only_o as_o to_o the_o pain_n of_o purgatory_n prot._n be_v that_o nothing_o to_o you_o you_o speak_v against_o your_o own_o and_o all_o man_n sense_n we_o see_v how_o high_o man_n esteem_v to_o be_v free_v from_o a_o painful_a though_o short_a disease_n here_o how_o much_o more_o to_o be_v free_v from_o such_o pain_n as_o you_o all_o confess_v to_o be_v unspeakable_o more_o sharp_a and_o grievous_a than_o all_o the_o pain_n that_o ever_o be_v endure_v in_o this_o world_n it_o be_v so_o considerable_a a_o thing_n that_o i_o assure_v you_o it_o be_v to_o i_o matter_n of_o wonder_n if_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n have_v be_v of_o your_o mind_n how_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v so_o unlucky_o that_o the_o poor_a only_o shall_v receive_v the_o gospel_n whereas_o if_o the_o man_n of_o that_o age_n have_v not_o be_v all_o fool_n the_o rich_a will_v have_v be_v most_o forward_o to_o entertain_v it_o vii_o but_o to_o proceed_v my_o seven_o consideration_n against_o your_o religion_n be_v take_v from_o its_o great_a hazard_n and_o utter_a uncertainty_n according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o church_n no_o man_n can_v be_v sure_a of_o his_o salvation_n without_o a_o revelation_n but_o he_o must_v go_v out_o of_o the_o world_n not_o know_v whether_o he_o go_v indeed_o there_o be_v nothing_o but_o hazard_n and_o uncertainty_n in_o your_o religion_n i_o suppose_v you_o grant_v that_o all_o your_o faith_n and_o consequent_o your_o salvation_n depend_v upon_o the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o your_o church_n pop._n that_o be_v most_o certain_a prot._n be_v you_o then_o infallible_o certain_a that_o your_o church_n be_v infallible_a or_o do_v you_o only_o probable_o believe_v it_o pop._n i_o be_o but_o a_o private_a priest_n and_o therefore_o can_v pretend_v to_o infallibility_n but_o i_o be_o full_o satisfy_v in_o it_o that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o itself_o prot._n then_o i_o see_v you_o pretend_v to_o no_o more_o certainty_n than_o i_o have_v for_o i_o know_v and_o you_o grant_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v infallible_a in_o itself_o and_o i_o know_v its_o infallibility_n as_o certain_o as_o you_o know_v the_o infallibility_n of_o your_o church_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o what_o be_v your_o opinion_n i_o know_v your_o be_v divide_v but_o where_o do_v you_o place_v the_o infallibility_n or_o where_o do_v you_o lay_v the_o foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n pop._n to_o deal_v free_o with_o you_o i_o place_v it_o in_o the_o pope_n who_o when_o he_o determine_v thing_n out_o of_o his_o chair_n be_v infallible_a for_o s._n peter_n who_o be_v supreme_a head_n of_o the_o church_n leave_v the_o pope_n his_o successor_n prot._n then_o it_o seem_v your_o faith_n do_v whole_o depend_v on_o these_o thing_n that_o saint_n peter_n be_v bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o die_v there_o and_o that_o he_o leave_v the_o pope_n his_o successor_n in_o his_o supreme_a and_o infallible_a authority_n pop._n it_o do_v so_o prot._n how_o then_o be_v you_o infallible_o assure_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o these_o thing_n which_o be_v all_o matter_n of_o fact_n pop._n because_o they_o be_v affirm_v by_o so_o many_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o writer_n prot._n be_v those_o father_n or_o writer_n infallible_a person_n pop._n no._n prot._n then_o may_v they_o and_o so_o may_v you_o be_v mistake_v in_o that_o point_n and_o so_o indeed_o you_o have_v nothing_o but_o a_o mere_a conjecture_n for_o the_o foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n but_o again_o be_v you_o infallible_o sure_a that_o saint_n peter_n intention_n be_v to_o leave_v his_o infallibility_n to_o the_o pope_n for_o i_o do_v not_o read_v that_o s._n peter_n leave_v it_o in_o his_o last_n wil._n i_o tell_v you_o true_a it_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o st._n peter_n shall_v write_v two_o catholic_n epistle_n and_o as_o i_o observe_v before_o not_o leave_v one_o word_n concern_v this_o matter_n for_o my_o part_n i_o shall_v always_o rather_o question_v the_o pope_n authority_n than_o s._n peter_n fidelity_n or_o discretion_n in_o omit_v so_o fundamental_a a_o point_n when_o he_o put_v in_o many_o of_o far_o less_o concernment_n but_o further_a i_o demand_v how_o be_v you_o assure_v that_o st._n peter_n intend_v to_o leave_v his_o power_n and_o do_v actual_o leave_v it_o to_o his_o successor_n pop._n by_o the_o unanimous_a consent_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n prot._n i_o wonder_v at_o your_o confidence_n that_o you_o dare_v affirm_v a_o thing_n which_o our_o author_n other_o have_v so_o clear_o prove_v to_o be_v false_a but_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o the_o father_n have_v say_v it_o tell_v i_o be_v the_o father_n infallible_a at_o least_o be_v they_o so_o in_o their_o report_n of_o matter_n of_o fact_n pop._n no_o we_o confess_v that_o it_o be_v only_o the_o pope_n or_o council_n that_o be_v infallible_a not_o the_o father_n &_o to_o be_v true_a to_o you_o even_o the_o pope_n himself_o be_v not_o infallible_a in_o his_o report_n of_o matter_n of_o fact_n prot._n then_o you_o have_v nothing_o but_o a_o mere_a conjecture_n or_o historical_a report_n deliver_v by_o man_n liable_a to_o mistake_v for_o the_o great_a foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n yet_o once_o more_o have_v you_o any_o great_a or_o better_a certainty_n for_o your_o faith_n than_o the_o pope_n himself_o pop._n god_n forbid_v i_o shall_v be_v so_o impudent_a or_o wicked_a to_o say_v so_o for_o my_o faith_n depend_v upon_o his_o certainty_n prot._n very_o well_o how_o i_o beseech_v you_o be_v the_o pope_n assure_v what_o be_v it_o that_o make_v he_o infallible_o certain_a of_o his_o own_o infallibility_n be_v he_o assure_v of_o 〈◊〉_d revelation_n pop._n no_o as_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o oft_o we_o pretend_v to_o no_o such_o thing_n prot._n how_o then_o pop._n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n which_o guide_v he_o into_o all_o truth_n prot._n how_o be_v he_o assure_v that_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n guide_v he_o pop._n by_o the_o promise_v god_n have_v make_v to_o he_o i_o need_v not_o repeat_v they_o they_o be_v know_v already_o thou_o be_v peter_n etc._n etc._n simon_n simon_n i_o have_v pray_v that_o thy_o faith_n fail_v not_o etc._n etc._n prot._n i_o have_v already_o show_v how_o absurd_o these_o text_n be_v allege_v but_o i_o beseech_v you_o how_o be_v the_o pope_n infallible_o assure_v that_o this_o be_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o those_o text_n you_o confess_v it_o be_v not_o by_o inspiration_n pop._n he_o know_v that_o by_o consider_v and_o compare_v scripture_n with_o scripture_n and_o by_o consult_v the_o father_n and_o prayer_n diligence_n and_o obedience_n etc._n etc._n prot._n all_o these_o thing_n be_v very_o good_a but_o any_o other_o man_n may_v use_v these_o mean_n as_o well_o as_o the_o pope_n and_o have_v as_o full_a promise_n from_o god_n as_o any_o the_o pope_n pretend_v to_o as_o joh._n 7._o 17._o if_o any_o man_n will_v do_v his_o will_n he_o shall_v know_v of_o the_o doctrine_n whether_o it_o be_v of_o god_n and_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n be_v promise_v to_o all_o that_o ask_v it_o luke_n 11._o 13._o so_o if_o this_o be_v all_o you_o have_v to_o say_v god_n deliver_v my_o soul_n from_o such_o a_o desperate_a religion_n wherein_o all_o the_o certainty_n of_o its_o faith_n depend_v upon_o his_o infallibility_n that_o be_v not_o certain_a of_o his_o own_o infallibility_n but_o i_o need_v say_v no_o more_o of_o this_o it_o be_v to_o i_o a_o undeniable_a argument_n that_o there_o be_v no_o certainty_n at_o all_o in_o this_o foundation_n because_o as_o you_o confess_v so_o many_o hundred_o of_o your_o able_a scholar_n do_v utter_o reject_v it_o but_o once_o more_o in_o my_o opinion_n you_o run_v
in_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n and_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v destroy_v prot._n call_v you_o this_o a_o destruction_n for_o one_o to_o remove_v from_o one_o place_n to_o another_o or_o to_o cease_v to_o be_v where_o he_o be_v before_o this_o be_v ridiculous_a and_o yet_o this_o ibid._n fantastical_a and_o mock-destruction_n be_v all_o which_o you_o can_v bring_v instead_o of_o that_o real_a destruction_n which_o you_o confess_v necessary_a to_o the_o very_a essence_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n and_o as_o for_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n they_o be_v destroy_v by_o transubstantiation_n not_o by_o the_o oblation_n or_o sacrifice_n which_o come_v after_o it_o and_o now_o have_v mention_v that_o let_v we_o discourse_n concern_v your_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o first_o tell_v i_o what_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o church_n pop._n that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n will_v inform_v you_o which_o declare_v that_o by_o consecration_n the_o whole_a substance_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v convert_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n 4._o prot._n how_o be_v it_o possible_a for_o the_o bread_n to_o be_v convert_v into_o christ_n body_n which_o be_v make_v already_o before_o the_o bread_n that_o christ_n can_v turn_v water_n into_o wine_n be_v possible_a but_o that_o he_o shall_v turn_v that_o water_n into_o such_o wine_n as_o be_v in_o be_v before_o that_o change_n this_o be_v impossible_a but_o let_v that_o go_v my_o next_o question_n be_v if_o a_o christian_a do_v actual_o receive_v christ_n body_n and_o blood_n tell_v i_o what_o profit_n have_v he_o by_o it_o i_o can_v believe_v that_o god_n will_v work_v so_o many_o miracle_n as_o you_o affirm_v he_o do_v in_o this_o sacrament_n to_o no_o purpose_n scripture_n and_o reason_n tell_v i_o and_o your_o council_n of_o trent_n confess_v 2._o that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v a_o feast_n for_o my_o soul_n and_o not_o for_o my_o body_n be_v it_o not_o so_o now_o what_o be_v my_o soul_n the_o better_a for_o eat_v the_o very_a body_n of_o christ_n when_o the_o woman_n cry_v out_o to_o our_o saviour_n 28._o blessed_n be_v the_o womb_n that_o thou_o christ_n reply_v yea_o rather_o bless_a be_v they_o that_o hear_v god_n word_n and_o do_v it_o nevertheless_o if_o you_o can_v solid_o prove_v it_o i_o will_v receive_v it_o therefore_o bring_v forth_o your_o principal_a argument_n for_o it_o pop._n i_o will_v do_v so_o and_o our_o church_n prove_v this_o point_n especial_o from_o two_o place_n of_o scripture_n john_n 6._o and_o the_o word_n of_o institution_n i_o begin_v with_o the_o six_o chapter_n of_o john_n where_o our_o saviour_n oft_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o bread_n which_o he_o give_v be_v his_o flesh_n etc._n etc._n prot._n i_o have_v hear_v that_o divers_a of_o your_o learned_a doctor_n confess_v this_o chapter_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v it_o so_o pop._n i_o will_v not_o dissemble_v with_o you_o that_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o biel_n missae_fw-la cardinal_n cusanus_fw-la bohemos_n cajetan_n 8._o and_o tapperus_n 15._o and_o divers_a other_o prot._n certain_o this_o argument_n be_v not_o likely_a to_o convince_v a_o protestant_a which_o can_v not_o satisfy_v your_o own_o able_a scholar_n but_o i_o will_v not_o press_v that_o far_o tell_v i_o then_o do_v you_o judge_v that_o christ_n speak_v here_o of_o a_o bodily_a eat_n and_o drink_v of_o his_o very_a flesh_n and_o blood_n pop._n we_o do_v so_o prot._n i_o confess_v some_o of_o the_o ancient_n be_v of_o your_o mind_n i_o mean_v the_o jew_n but_o with_o submission_n i_o be_o rather_o of_o christ_n opinion_n who_o plain_o destroy_v that_o gross_a and_o carnal_a sense_n tell_v they_o it_o be_v the_o spirit_n that_o quicken_v the_o flesh_n profit_v nothing_o vers_fw-la 63._o again_o do_v not_o christ_n press_v this_o as_o a_o necessary_a and_o present_a duty_n upon_o all_o the_o jew_n that_o then_o hear_v he_o pop._n that_o must_v be_v grant_v prot._n then_o certain_o christ_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v not_o then_o institute_v and_o therefore_o they_o can_v not_o partake_v of_o it_o i_o demand_v further_o be_v this_o sacrament_n of_o such_o efficacy_n that_o all_o that_o receive_v it_o be_v save_v and_o of_o such_o necessity_n that_o all_o that_o do_v not_o take_v it_o be_v damn_v pop._n no_o our_o church_n utter_o condemn_v both_o those_o opinion_n port_n but_o this_o eat_n of_o christ_n flesh_n be_v such_o that_o christ_n say_v all_o that_o eat_v it_o be_v save_v v_o 24._o and_o all_o that_o do_v not_o eat_v it_o be_v damn_v v_o 53._o therefore_o sure_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o a_o sacramental_a eat_n beside_o the_o whole_a laity_n be_v utter_o undo_v if_o your_o sense_n of_o this_o chapter_n be_v true_a for_o i_o find_v that_o drink_n of_o christ_n blood_n be_v no_o less_o necessary_a to_o life_n eternal_a than_o eat_v of_o his_o flesh_n and_o therefore_o woe_n to_o they_o to_o who_o you_o do_v not_o allow_v to_o drink_v of_o the_o cup_n in_o the_o sacrament_n i_o be_o tell_v this_o objection_n be_v so_o considerable_a that_o it_o force_v divers_a of_o your_o doctor_n sore_o against_o their_o will_n to_o forsake_v this_o argument_n and_o therefore_o this_o will_v not_o do_v your_o work_n but_o i_o presume_v you_o have_v better_a argument_n pop._n we_o have_v so_o i_o shall_v urge_v but_o one_o which_o be_v of_o its_o self_n sufficient_a from_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o institution_n this_o be_v my_o body_n methinks_v the_o very_a hear_n of_o they_o read_v shall_v convince_v you_o if_o you_o will_v take_v the_o word_n in_o their_o plain_a and_o proper_a sense_n and_o not_o devise_v i_o know_v not_o what_o figure_n and_o trope_n prot._n if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o christ_n do_v turn_v the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n by_o say_v these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n yet_o how_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o the_o priest_n by_o recite_v these_o word_n work_v the_o same_o effect_n any_o more_o than_o a_o priest_n every_o time_n he_o read_v those_o word_n let_v there_o be_v light_n do_v make_v light_n because_o god_n do_v make_v it_o by_o those_o word_n or_o than_o he_o raise_v a_o dead_a man_n every_o time_n he_o read_v those_o word_n of_o christ_n lazarus_n come_v forth_o moreover_o i_o have_v hear_v that_o divers_a of_o your_o most_o learned_a doctor_n confess_v that_o this_o place_n do_v not_o nor_o indeed_o any_o other_o place_n of_o scripture_n prove_v transubstantiation_n i_o have_v hear_v three_o cardinal_n name_v viz._n cajetan_n 1._o and_o our_o bishop_n of_o rochester_n 10._o and_o cameracensis_n f._n and_o divers_a famous_a schoolman_n as_o scotus_n and_o biel_n of_o who_o this_o be_v know_v and_o durandus_fw-la 14._o and_o ocham_n 6._o and_o melchior_n canus_n 3._o and_o vasquez_n 5._o and_o the_o great_a cardinal_n perron_n profess_v that_o he_o believe_v transubstantiation_n not_o by_o virtue_n of_o any_o necessary_a consequence_n or_o reason_n allege_v by_o their_o doctor_n but_o by_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n as_o they_o be_v expound_v by_o tradition_n 793._o and_o bellarmin_n himself_o confess_v this_o opinion_n be_v not_o improbable_a 23._o methinks_v so_o many_o learned_a man_n forsake_v this_o argument_n who_o doubtless_o will_v have_v be_v right_o glad_a if_o it_o have_v be_v solid_a and_o employ_v all_o their_o wit_n to_o search_v out_o the_o strength_n of_o it_o be_v to_o i_o a_o convince_a evidence_n of_o its_o weakness_n and_o vanity_n as_o also_o of_o the_o badness_n of_o your_o cause_n that_o can_v find_v no_o better_a argument_n yet_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v pop._n this_o than_o i_o say_v that_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n be_v to_o be_v take_v in_o their_o proper_a and_o not_o in_o a_o figurative_a sense_n for_o sure_o christ_n will_v speak_v plain_o to_o the_o understanding_n of_o his_o disciple_n especial_o when_o he_o be_v so_o near_o his_o death_n and_o make_v his_o last_o will_n and_o testament_n and_o institute_v the_o sacrament_n in_o such_o case_n man_n use_v to_o speak_v plain_o prot._n i_o ready_o grant_v that_o christ_n do_v speak_v plain_o and_o intelligible_o but_o tell_v i_o be_v not_o that_o plain_a enough_o when_o we_o take_v the_o word_n as_o they_o be_v common_o use_v in_o scripture_n pop._n i_o must_v needs_o grant_v that_o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o present_a case_n prot._n but_o it_o be_v for_o we_o can_v give_v you_o score_n of_o instance_n as_o you_o very_o well_o know_v where_o the_o word_n be_v be_v so_o take_v nor_o be_v any_o thing_n more_o frequent_a in_o scripture_n the_o seven_o cow_n and_o so_o the_o seven_o ear_n of_o corn_n be_v seven_o year_n gen._n 4._o 12_o 18._o the_o star_n be_v the_o angel_n
live_a creature_n prot._n then_o john_n at_o rome_n may_v walk_v towards_o london_n and_o john_n at_o london_n may_v walk_v towards_o rome_n and_o so_o they_o may_v meet_v shall_v i_o say_v one_o the_o other_o and_o you_o may_v be_v sure_a it_o will_v be_v a_o merry_a meeting_n it_o be_v worth_a enquiry_n how_o long_o they_o will_v be_v ever_o they_o come_v together_o then_o again_o at_o rome_n all_o the_o part_n of_o john_n may_v be_v excessive_o hot_a and_o at_o london_n excessive_o cold_a and_o at_o paris_n neither_o hot_a nor_o cold_a this_o be_v beyond_o all_o the_o romance_n that_o ever_o be_v devise_v beside_o john_n may_v be_v sore_o wound_v at_o rome_n and_o yet_o at_o london_n he_o may_v sleep_v in_o a_o whole_a skin_n john_n may_v be_v feast_v at_o rome_n and_o fast_v at_o london_n in_o the_o same_o moment_n i_o may_v be_v infinite_a in_o reckon_v the_o horrid_a absurdity_n of_o this_o doctrine_n he_o that_o can_v believe_v these_o thing_n will_v stick_v at_o nothing_o pop._n you_o talk_v at_o this_o rate_n because_o you_o measure_v god_n by_o yourselves_o whereas_o he_o can_v do_v more_o than_o you_o or_o i_o can_v think_v prot._n there_o be_v some_o thing_n which_o it_o be_v no_o dishonour_n to_o god_n to_o say_v he_o can_v do_v they_o because_o they_o be_v either_o sinful_a so_o god_n can_v lie_v or_o absolute_o impossible_a god_n himself_o can_v make_v a_o man_n to_o be_v alive_a and_o dead_a at_o the_o same_o time_n god_n can_v make_v the_o whole_a to_o be_v less_o than_o a_o part_n of_o it_o he_o can_v make_v three_o to_o be_v more_o than_o threescore_o he_o can_v make_v a_o son_n to_o beget_v his_o father_n he_o can_v make_v the_o same_o man_n to_o be_v bear_v at_o two_o several_a time_n as_o your_o author_n confess_v and_o therefore_o in_o like_a manner_n he_o can_v make_v the_o same_o body_n to_o be_v in_o two_o several_a place_n for_o this_o be_v not_o one_o jot_n less_o impossible_a than_o the_o other_o pop._n these_o indeed_o be_v great_a difficulty_n to_o humane_a reason_n but_o reason_n be_v not_o to_o be_v believe_v against_o scripture_n prot._n true_o but_o this_o be_v your_o hard_a hap_n this_o doctrine_n of_o you_o be_v against_o scripture_n as_o well_o as_o reason_n and_o indeed_o against_o many_o article_n of_o religion_n and_o first_o it_o be_v against_o the_o scripture_n in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o be_v high_o dishonourable_a to_o christ_n who_o honour_n be_v the_o great_a design_n of_o the_o scripture_n what_o a_o foul_a dishonour_n be_v it_o to_o he_o to_o subject_v he_o to_o the_o will_n of_o every_o mass_n priest_n who_o when_o he_o please_v can_v command_v he_o down_o into_o the_o bread_n what_o a_o dishonour_n be_v it_o that_o the_o very_a body_n of_o christ_n may_v be_v eat_v by_o rat_n or_o worm_n and_o may_v be_v cast_v up_o by_o vomit_n and_o the_o like_a as_o your_o aquinas_n affirm_v 3._o and_o that_o your_o church_n in_o her_o missal_n have_v put_v this_o among_o other_o direction_n that_o if_o worm_n or_o rat_n have_v eat_v christ_n body_n they_o must_v be_v burn_v and_o if_o any_o man_n vomit_v it_o up_o it_o must_v be_v eat_v again_o or_o burn_v or_o make_v a_o relic_n consecratione_fw-la and_o yet_o this_o be_v no_o more_o than_o your_o doctrine_n will_v force_v you_o to_o own_o for_o if_o you_o will_v believe_v christ_n word_n in_o one_o place_n as_o well_o as_o in_o another_o he_o assure_v we_o that_o whatsoever_o without_o exception_n enter_v into_o the_o mouth_n go_v into_o the_o belly_n and_o be_v cast_v forth_o into_o the_o draught_n matth._n 15._o 17._o pop._n this_o be_v no_o more_o dishonourable_a to_o christ_n than_o that_o the_o flea_n may_v such_o his_o blood_n when_o he_o be_v upon_o earth_n prot._n you_o mistake_v woeful_o for_o though_o in_o the_o day_n of_o his_o flesh_n it_o be_v no_o dishonour_n to_o he_o and_o it_o be_v necessary_a for_o we_o that_o he_o suffer_v so_o many_o indignity_n and_o die_v and_o be_v crucify_v yet_o now_o that_o he_o be_v rise_v from_o the_o dead_a he_o die_v no_o more_o rom._n 6._o and_o it_o be_v a_o dishonour_n to_o he_o to_o be_v crucify_v again_o and_o to_o be_v bring_v back_o to_o those_o reproach_n which_o he_o long_o since_o leave_v and_o all_o this_o to_o no_o purpose_n and_o without_o any_o profit_n to_o we_o as_o i_o show_v again_o the_o scripture_n approve_v and_o use_v this_o argument_n that_o a_o body_n can_v be_v in_o two_o place_n at_o once_o it_o be_v the_o angel_n argument_n he_o be_v not_o here_o for_o he_o be_v rise_v mat._n 28._o 6._o sufficient_o imply_v that_o he_o can_v not_o be_v here_o and_o there_o too_o or_o must_v we_o say_v that_o the_o angel_n argument_n be_v weak_a or_o deceitful_a that_o you_o may_v be_v strong_a and_o true_a pop._n he_o mean_v he_o be_v not_o there_o visible_o prot._n it_o seem_v if_o a_o man_n be_v seek_v after_o shall_v hide_v himself_o with_o you_o in_o some_o corner_n or_o hole_n in_o your_o room_n and_o the_o pursuer_n shall_v ask_v for_o he_o you_o can_v answer_v with_o good_a conscience_n he_o be_v not_o here_o because_o he_o be_v invisible_a our_o bless_a saviour_n every_o where_o make_v these_o two_o opposite_a his_o be_v in_o the_o world_n and_o go_v to_o heaven_n joh._n 13._o 1._o the_o hour_n be_v come_v that_o he_o shall_v depart_v out_o of_o this_o world_n unto_o the_o father_n it_o seem_v you_o can_v have_v teach_v he_o the_o art_n of_o go_v thither_o and_o keep_v here_o too_o i_o promise_v you_o i_o dare_v not_o venture_v to_o buy_v a_o estate_n of_o any_o of_o you_o for_o it_o seem_v you_o can_v tell_v how_o to_o sell_v it_o to_o i_o and_o keep_v it_o to_o yourselves_o you_o may_v remember_v once_o you_o and_o i_o make_v ourselves_o merry_a with_o a_o passage_n that_o one_o use_v in_o a_o speech_n that_o since_o he_o can_v not_o give_v content_a neither_o by_o go_v nor_o stay_v hereafter_o he_o will_v neither_o go_v nor_o stay_v it_o seem_v you_o have_v as_o good_a a_o faculty_n as_o he_o have_v for_o you_o know_v how_o a_o man_n may_v both_o go_v from_o a_o place_n and_o stay_v in_o it_o at_o the_o same_o time_n i_o know_v not_o what_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a if_o you_o do_v not_o shut_v your_o eye_n christ_n say_v express_o i_o you_o have_v not_o always_o that_o be_v here_o mat._n 26._o 11._o beside_o your_o doctrine_n destroy_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n humane_a nature_n i_o read_v of_o christ_n that_o he_o be_v in_o all_o point_n like_v unto_o we_o sin_n only_o except_v his_o body_n be_v like_o we_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v impossible_a it_o shall_v be_v in_o a_o thousand_o several_a place_n at_o once_o as_o you_o pretend_v it_o be_v this_o turn_v christ_n body_n into_o a_o spirit_n nay_o indeed_o you_o make_v his_o body_n more_o spiritual_a than_o a_o spirit_n for_o a_o spirit_n can_v be_v in_o several_a place_n divide_v from_o itself_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n if_o it_o be_v entire_a both_o in_o the_o whole_a and_o in_o every_o part_n of_o the_o body_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o divide_v from_o itself_o nor_o from_o its_o body_n nor_o can_v it_o be_v in_o two_o several_a body_n at_o the_o same_o time_n as_o all_o confess_v and_o much_o less_o can_v it_o be_v in_o ten_o thousand_o body_n at_o once_o as_o by_o your_o argument_n undoubted_o it_o may_v when_o ever_o a_o angel_n come_v to_o earth_n he_o leave_v heaven_n and_o so_o this_o every_o way_n destroy_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n humane_a body_n pop._n much_o of_o what_o you_o say_v be_v true_a of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o day_n of_o his_o infirmity_n but_o when_o he_o be_v rise_v from_o the_o dead_a than_o he_o receive_v a_o spiritual_a body_n as_o it_o be_v say_v we_o shall_v be_v at_o the_o resurrection_n 1_o cor._n 15._o prot._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o you_o ascribe_v these_o monstrous_a property_n to_o christ_n body_n before_o its_o resurrection_n for_o you_o say_v the_o flesh_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v real_o in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o the_o disciple_n receive_v while_o christ_n live_v second_o christ_n resurrection_n though_o it_o heighten_v the_o perfection_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o alter_v the_o nature_n and_o property_n of_o his_o body_n nor_o give_v it_o the_o be_v of_o a_o spirit_n for_o after_o he_o be_v rise_v he_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v no_o spirit_n by_o this_o argument_n handle_v i_o and_o see_v for_o a_o spirit_n have_v not_o flesh_n and_o bone_n as_o you_o see_v i_o have_v luke_n 24._o 39_o by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o your_o doctrine_n destroy_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n humanity_n at_o least_o it_o destroy_v the_o main_a evidence_n of_o it_o
of_o sin_n of_o god_n and_o of_o his_o law_n that_o can_v so_o judge_v of_o such_o a_o horrid_a evil_n as_o sin_n scripture_n full_o condemn_v this_o doctrine_n it_o tell_v i_o that_o the_o wage_n of_o sin_n all_o sin_n without_o any_o difference_n be_v death_n even_o that_o death_n which_o be_v opposite_a to_o eternal_a life_n rom._n 6._o 23._o that_o he_o that_o shall_v break_v the_o least_o of_o god_n command_n and_o teach_v man_n so_o though_o peradventure_o he_o do_v it_o ignorant_o and_o so_o according_a to_o your_o opinion_n it_o be_v a_o venial_a sin_n shall_v be_v call_v the_o least_o in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n that_o be_v he_o shall_v have_v no_o portion_n there_o it_o tell_v i_o curse_v be_v every_o one_o that_o continue_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n write_v in_o the_o book_n of_o the_o law_n to_o do_v they_o gal._n 3._o 10._o and_o he_o speak_v of_o that_o curse_n which_o christ_n undergo_v for_o we_o and_o redeem_v we_o from_o it_o tell_v i_o that_o for_o every_o idle_a word_n that_o man_n shall_v speak_v they_o shall_v give_v a_o account_n thereof_o in_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n and_o by_o such_o word_n if_o not_o repent_v of_o they_o shall_v be_v condemn_v mat._n 12._o 36_o 37._o so_o now_o your_o foundation_n and_o one_o of_o the_o pillar_n of_o purgatory_n be_v go_v and_o as_o for_o your_o other_o fancy_n that_o christ_n do_v not_o satisfy_v for_o our_o temporal_a punishment_n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o do_v not_o christ_n suffer_v temporal_a affliction_n pop._n yes_o doubtless_o the_o whole_a gospel_n be_v full_a of_o such_o suffering_n prot._n sure_o all_o that_o christ_n suffer_v he_o suffer_v for_o we_o both_o in_o our_o stead_n and_o for_o our_o good_a he_o be_v cut_v off_o not_o for_o himself_o but_o for_o our_o sin_n dan._n 9_o 25._o it_o be_v for_o our_o sake_n that_o he_o bear_v that_o temporal_a part_n of_o the_o curse_n to_o be_v hang_v on_o a_o tree_n and_o all_o that_o pain_n and_o shame_n be_v but_o a_o temporal_a punishment_n gal._n 3._o 13._o i_o read_v isa._n 53._o that_o christ_n bear_v our_o grief_n and_o carry_v our_o sorrow_n v_o 4._o which_o be_v not_o only_o accomplish_v in_o this_o that_o he_o bear_v the_o guilt_n of_o our_o sin_n as_o s._n peter_n expound_v it_o 1_o pet._n 2._o 24._o but_o also_o in_o this_o that_o he_o deliver_v they_o from_o sickness_n and_o temporal_a affliction_n as_o st._n matthew_n expound_v it_o mat._n 8._o 16_o 17._o and_o both_o these_o consist_v well_o together_o since_o christ_n remove_v both_o sin_n the_o cause_n and_o affliction_n the_o effect_n of_o it_o pop._n if_o christ_n have_v satisfy_v for_o our_o temporal_a punishment_n than_o believer_n shall_v be_v free_a from_o all_o pain_n and_o loss_n and_o death_n which_o it_o be_v apparent_a they_o be_v not_o and_o therefore_o notwithstanding_o the_o fullness_n of_o christ_n satisfaction_n they_o may_v be_v liable_a to_o pain_n in_o purgatory_n as_o well_o as_o in_o this_o life_n prot._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v three_o thing_n first_o your_o inference_n from_o the_o pain_n of_o this_o life_n to_o the_o torment_n of_o purgatory_n be_v weak_a and_o false_a i_o may_v and_o must_v believe_v that_o god_n afflict_v his_o people_n here_o because_o scripture_n and_o experience_n put_v it_o out_o of_o doubt_n but_o that_o cod_n will_v punish_v his_o people_n in_o purgatory_n after_o this_o life_n no_o scripture_n affirm_v you_o that_o can_v multiply_v your_o instance_n of_o the_o suffering_n of_o believer_n in_o this_o life_n and_o can_v tell_v we_o of_o adam_n and_o david_n and_o solomon_n and_o many_o other_o have_v not_o to_o this_o day_n be_v able_a though_o often_o urge_v to_o produce_v one_o instance_n of_o the_o suffering_n of_o any_o one_o believer_n after_o this_o life_n which_o one_o consideration_n be_v sufficient_a to_o overthrow_v this_o argument_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o indifferent_a man_n second_o there_o be_v not_o the_o same_o reason_n for_o the_o suffering_n of_o believer_n here_o and_o those_o which_o you_o suppose_v in_o purgatory_n nor_o be_v they_o of_o the_o same_o nature_n the_o present_a suffering_n of_o believer_n be_v necessary_a 1_o pet._n 1._o 6._o you_o be_v in_o heaviness_n if_o need_v be_v both_o for_o believer_n themselves_o to_o subdue_v the_o flesh_n which_o in_o this_o life_n be_v potent_a and_o altogether_o need_v such_o a_o curb_n by_o this_o shall_v the_o iniquity_n of_o jacob_n be_v purge_v isa._n 27._o 9_o and_o to_o prevent_v their_o eternal_a damnation_n 1_o cor._n 11._o 32._o as_o also_o for_o the_o terror_n and_o caution_n of_o other_o offender_n so_o that_o albeit_o christ_n have_v full_o pay_v the_o debt_n yet_o it_o be_v upon_o other_o account_v convenient_a that_o they_o shall_v smart_v and_o suffer_v here_o but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n nor_o use_n of_o purgatory_n suffering_n neither_o for_o believer_n themselves_o since_o there_o be_v no_o mortification_n of_o corruption_n after_o this_o life_n no_o temptation_n to_o sin_n there_o no_o improvement_n of_o grace_n no_o fear_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n 4._o nor_o for_o example_n and_o warning_n to_o other_o for_o their_o fellow-sufferer_n in_o purgatory_n you_o do_v not_o pretend_v they_o be_v at_o all_o edify_v by_o their_o suffering_n and_o man_n here_o they_o neither_o see_v nor_o know_v any_o thing_n of_o these_o pain_n nor_o have_v god_n reveal_v any_o thing_n concern_v they_o but_o when_o god_n make_v any_o example_n to_o other_o he_o set_v they_o in_o the_o view_n of_o other_o or_o at_o least_o acquaint_v they_o full_o therewith_o as_o he_o do_v with_o hell_n torment_v to_o this_o end_n it_o be_v a_o senseless_a thing_n to_o hang_v up_o a_o man_n in_o jamaica_n for_o the_o terror_n of_o those_o that_o live_v in_o england_n beside_o the_o suffering_n of_o believer_n here_o do_v come_v from_o the_o love_n and_o faithfulness_n of_o god_n heb._n 12._o 6._o who_o the_o lord_n love_v he_o chasten_v psal._n 119._o 75._o in_o faithfulness_n thou_o have_v afflict_v i_o according_o good_a man_n have_v look_v upon_o they_o as_o choice_a mercy_n psal._n 97._o 12._o bless_a be_v the_o man_n who_o thou_o chastne_v and_o psal._n 119._o 67._o it_o be_v good_a for_o i_o that_o i_o be_v afflict_v and_o the_o denial_n of_o affliction_n be_v threaten_v as_o a_o grievous_a punishment_n is._n 1._o 5._o hos._n 4._o 14._o 17._o but_o now_o the_o suffering_n of_o purgatory_n be_v in_o all_o point_v contrary_a they_o be_v pure_o vindictive_a and_o the_o effect_n of_o mere_a wrath_n nor_o do_v you_o esteem_v those_o suffering_n a_o mercy_n and_o your_o happiness_n but_o freedom_n from_o they_o and_o therefore_o your_o argument_n from_o the_o pain_n of_o this_o life_n to_o those_o in_o purgatory_n be_v foolish_a and_o absurd_a three_o believer_n suffer_v here_o do_v not_o at_o all_o derogate_a from_o the_o fullness_n of_o our_o redemption_n by_o christ_n because_o as_o i_o have_v show_v admit_v that_o to_o be_v complete_a yet_o they_o be_v necessary_a for_o other_o purpose_n but_o your_o purgatory_n suffering_n do_v by_o communicate_v at_o least_o some_o part_n of_o his_o proper_a work_n to_o yourselves_o you_o profess_v they_o wash_v away_o part_n of_o your_o sin_n which_o be_v christ_n peculiar_a honour_n he_o wash_v we_o from_o our_o sin_n in_o his_o own_o blood_n rev._n 1._o 5._o you_o make_v they_o a_o part_n of_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o law_n from_o which_o and_o not_o only_o from_o a_o part_n of_o it_o christ_n have_v redeem_v we_o himself_o be_v make_v a_o curse_n for_o we_o gal._n 3._o 13._o you_o make_v they_o a_o real_a satisfaction_n in_o part_n to_o god_n justice_n which_o be_v not_o satisfy_v by_o all_o that_o christ_n do_v or_o suffer_v without_o they_o and_o in_o a_o word_n you_o make_v man_n in_o part_n their_o own_o redeemer_n and_o saviour_n i_o hope_v by_o this_o you_o see_v how_o weak_o you_o reason_n from_o present_a trouble_n to_o purgatory_n torment_n and_o that_o notwithstanding_o your_o objection_n my_o first_o argument_n stand_v good_a against_o purgatory_n my_o second_o argument_n be_v this_o that_o the_o scripture_n every_o where_o speak_v of_o the_o state_n of_o believer_n immediate_o after_o death_n as_o happy_a and_o bless_a and_o that_o all_o the_o suffering_n of_o believer_n be_v confine_v to_o this_o life_n and_o of_o this_o we_o have_v many_o expression_n and_o example_n too_o in_o scripture_n and_o not_o one_o to_o the_o contrary_n the_o suffering_n of_o this_o present_a time_n say_v s._n paul_n be_v not_o worthy_a to_o be_v compare_v with_o the_o glory_n rom._n 8._o 18._o he_o know_v no_o other_o suffering_n the_o affliction_n of_o believer_n be_v light_a and_o but_o for_o a_o moment_n and_o they_o too_o be_v in_o thing_n that_o be_v see_v 2_o cor._n 4._o 17_o 18._o