man by bread Now the soveraigne prime cause of Faith is God God worketh it by his word The word worketh as a Doctrinall or Morall instrument by way of argument perswasion Before it can perswade it must be revealed God therefore revealeth it and that sometimes without meanes by an immediate impression of light and grace vpon the soule as he did vnto the Apostles on the feast of Pentecost and to S. Paul in his iourney towards Damascus But generally and for the most part he revealeth it mediately and by the intervention of meanes The Ordinary meanes is that which is setled and established to continue in the Church for ever That is the Ministerie of the Church whose office is by all meanes to publish the word whether by Writing or by Speaking and this againe whether by Reading or Interpreting All which if they haue in them an ability and fitnesse vnder God to convey into our hearts the knowledge of his word then vndoubtedly are they all Ordinary meanes to beget faith And such an ordinary meanes among the rest doe I affirme Reading to be Which hauing thus fully explained the tearmes I now come to demonstrate and first in that faith whereby we yeeld assent vnto the Scripture that it is the very word of God The last and highest principle whereinto Faith is resolued and wherevpon it finally stayeth it selfe is the Scripture yet is it not so vnto vs vntill we be perswaded that it is the word of the eternall verity which can neither erre nor lead into errour But how come we to bee perswaded hereof By Sermons I deny not but Sermons are vnder God a sufficient meanes to perswade it But when did you ever heare a Preacher treat of this argument or goe about to proue it Or if any haue done it did they not perswade you to that whereof you were already perswaded Yes questionlesse For besides the testimonie of the Church in the publike reading of the Scriptures as the word of God there shineth forth in them such a Majestie and divinenesse as is not to be found in other writings and when by Reading yet take notice of so many oracles and miracles and predictions and sundry other things farre exceeding the power of nature doth not reason it selfe tell you saith Whitaker that they must needs bee of God The same saith D. Iohn White Many times Pagans and Atheists without the Ministery come to Faith by only Reading whence but being convinced by Scripture it selfe If then the very Reading of holy Scripture may bring vnto our knowledge such remonstrances and arguments as convince the minde that it is the word of God certainely it is an ordinary meanes to beget this faith for what can be more ordinary then arguments and demonstrations But the former is true as we haue proued therefore the latter also If so then much more is it apt and fit to beget that Faith whereby we yeeld assent to those articles which are built vpon Scripture especially if two things may be granted first that it is perfect secondly that it is facile easie to be vnderstood That it is all-sufficient and containeth whatsoeuer is necessary either to bee beleeued or done vnto saluation none but a Papist will deny And surely if it be defectiue either it is from God or from the pen-men Not from the pen-men for they were but hands and could not but write what the head indited to them If from God then either because he could not or because he would not perfect it To say he could not is to derogate from his wisdome and power to say hee would not is to detract from his loue and to taxe him of envie But what need mee to spend more time in this point seeing I now deale against those who challenge vnto it such a perfection that nothing may be done no not to the taking vp of a straw without warrant from it The Scripture then is perfect is it also facile and easie to bee vnderstood Aristotle saith of his Acroamaticks that they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 published in that they were writtē not published because of their darknesse In the books of Heraclitus there was so great obscurity that he was therefore called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Obscure May wee iustly say the same of the Scriptures and the pen-men thereof Surely it cannot be denied but that some things are difficult yet as there are deepe places where the Elephant may swim so there are shallow where the Lamb may wade and as there is harder meat which the strong man may chew so there is milk also which the infant may suck And I boldly affirme that all fundamentall points and duties necessary to salvation are in Scripture so clearely delivered that if they were written with a sunbeame they could not bee more cleare God hath spoken so that not a few but all may vnderstand saith Hierom. Hee speaketh to the heart both of learned and vnlearned saith Augustin Scriptures are so plaine as they need not to be expounded saith Iustin Martyr They exceed no mans capacity saith Cyril of Alexandria They are easie not to the wise onely but women and boyes saith Chrysostome And againe They are easie to bee vnderstood to the Servant to the Countryman to the widow to the stripling to him that is very simple The same say all our Divines against Papist The Scripture saith Whitaker may easily be vnderstood of any if he will And Zanchie will a Father speake obscurely to his children in things concerning their salvation that they shall need to seeke interpreters No verily But God being wise was able to expresse himselfe and being good he would and it was necessary to speake plainely in things so necessary If then to come to a conclusion Scripture containe all what is necessary and that in such plaine tearmes that whosoeuer readeth may easily vnderstand how can it be but Reading should be an apt and fit meanes and consequently an ordinary meanes to beget this Faith For if once we beleeue that Scripture is the word of God we cannot but yeeld assent vnto those verities that are so plainely deliuered therein and which we knowe to bee witnessed by the truth it selfe The same doe I also affirme of that Faith which wee call iustifying and of the fruits thereof Repentance and New obedience that the Reading of Scripture is an apt fit meanes to beget that also For it presenteth vnto vs store of strong motiues to perswade sweet promises to allure terrible threatnings to affright notable examples to imitate and the like then which there cannot be a better outward meanes and there needs no more but the inward concurrence of Gods spirit to worke a perfect conversion Read among other places the 28 of the book of Deuteronomie and then tell mee whither the Sermons of any man nay whither the tongue of men and Angels be able to perswade more effectually Sermons you
say ordinarily beget Faith work Repentance and breed sanctity and newnesse of life not so Reading May it please you then to tell vs for our better satisfaction what such coherence there is betwixt Sermons and Faith which is not betwixt it and Reading And what that intrinsicall and proper quality of Sermons is whereby Faith is begotten which is not also to be found in Reading Is it in the doctrine and matter of Sermons It is the very same which wee read Is it in the arguments and motiues whereby they perswade We read either the same or as forcible in the Scripture What then Is it in the vtterance voice gesture behauiour or credit of the Preacher Much lesse for then should we be beholding for our Faith to accidents more then substance to the plausible inticements of humane wisdome rather then the evidence demonstration of the spirit Wherein then lies the vertue Forsooth in Gods blessing for Preaching is the ordinance of God and he hath promised to blesse it But stay my bretheren is not Reading Gods ordinance also And doth God having imprinted in it such an aptnesse and fitnesse ordinarily to beget Faith either curse his owne ordinance or suspend the operation of it so as it shall never worke but only extraordinarily What shall I say When they haue answered what they can vnto the question the summe of all as Hooker obserueth will be this Sermons are and must be the only ordinary meanes but why and wherefore we cannot tell And so I passe from the first argument drawne from the aptnesse and fitnesse of Reading to produce all these kindes of Faith Now in the second place I dispute ex concessis from that which is yeelded and granted by the adversarie First it is granted by Hieron and we haue proued it by the testimonie of M. Fox to be true that many of our forefathers in the blinde time of Popery were converted to the true Faith by reading only This say they was extraordinary but I infer that therfore it was ordinary For if reading be excluded sermōs be the only ordinary means it will follow that the Church at that time was without the ordinary meanes for wholsome Sermons then were not to bee had But it is a strange point in Divinity that the Ordinary meanes should at any time fayle in the Church and I presume when that fayleth the Church of God will fayle also If so then is there some other ordinary meanes besides Sermons and what can that bee but the written word and the Reading thereof It is further granted and that rightly that whosoever readeth the Scriptures or heareth them read is therevpon bound to beleeue And this is so cleare a truth that Whitaker could not forbare to charge his adversary Stapleton with much folly for holding the contrary Sic tu planè desipis saith he Art thou so very a foole as to thinke that the word of God hath no authority or bindeth no man to beleeue but then when it is preached Certainely if the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles was to be beleeued when it was deliuered by them in their Sermons it is as much now to be beleeued when it is convayed vnto vs by way of writing and reading Wherevpon saith Caluin Although the Apostles be dead yet their doctrine liueth flourisheth and it is our dutie to profit by their writing as much as if themselues were now publikely speaking before our eyes Vnlesse therefore Gods word cease to bee his word when it is read an obligation in reading is laid vpon vs to yeeld all credence and obedience vnto it Now God bindeth not but by a commandement He commandeth therefore to beleeue by Reading What Doth he command vs to beleeue by a meanes that is vtterly vnable and vnfit to worke beleefe And doth hee daily and hourely tye our Faith vnto that which hee meanes not to blesse vnto that end but once as it were in an age and extraordinarily Questionlesse seeing God hath ordained that his holy Scriptures be ordinarily read both in publike and private and hath bound vs all to beleeue whensoeuer we either read them or heare them read it cannot be but that Reading is an ordinary meanes to beget faith and that God will alwaies vouchsafe to blesse his owne ordinance to the same end In the third place I vrge the testimonie and authoritie of holy writ But happily so doing I may be counted in the number of those vile men who like venomous spiders suck poyson out of the sweetest flowres 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the die is cast and angry speeches may not hinder me from maintaining truth by the word of truth When all Israell saith Moses is come to appeare before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall chuse thou shalt read this law before all Israell in their hearing Gather the people together men and women and children and thy stranger that is within thy gates that they may heare and that they may learne and feare the Lord your God and obserue to doe all the words of his Law Here in expresse tearmes the Reading of the law is commanded and it is particularly commanded to this end that men may learne thereby What the feare of God and obedience to the Law God therefore hath appointed Reading to be an Ordinary meanes of conversion It is answered that such Reading is meant as was accompanied with interpretation So they dreame indeed but in the text there is no mention of interpretation Neither is it likely seeing now the whole law was to be read at once as is aboue said and the scantling of time would hardly beare any exposition Howsoeuer sure I am the holy Ghost ascribeth the effect vnto Reading and I thinke hee both knewe and meant what hee said In the Prophecie of Ieremie God commandeth the Prophet to write all his Prophecies in a booke that all the house of Iudah might heare them read for it may bee saith God that hearing they may returne every man from his evill way that I may forgiue their iniquity and their sinne According to this commandement Ieremie dictates all the Prophecies vnto Baruch Baruch writes them and being written reads them in the house of the Lord. Here againe Reading is commanded by God and to the same end that the people thereby might bee moued to repentance To this they answer first that God speaketh after the manner of men True when he saith it may be as if he knewe no more then man what the effect would bee Yet is it plainely intimated that Reading is an ordinary meanes of repentance Secondly say they Ieremie had preached the same before and so they are Sermons that are commanded to be read Be it so Yet then the very Reading of Sermons may worke Repentance which the Preaching of them could not To say nothing that these Sermons written were Gods word both for matter and manner so that if the Reading of them might be
effectuall to conversion the like efficacie cannot reasonably bee denied vnto the Reading of that written word which now we haue Lastly say they this was extraordinary for Ieremie was in prison and could not come to preach It is vntrue that Ieremie was now in prison for then the Princes would not haue said vnto Baruch Goe hide thee thou and Ieremie and let no man knowe where yee be And whereas Ieremie saith I am shut vp I cannot goe into the house of the Lord the best Expositors vnderstand it of some other impediment and not imprisonment But bee it that Ieremie was in prison yet is the Reading of his prophecies no more extraordinary then the Reading of any other booke of Scripture nor the Reading of these lesse effectuall then of them To let passe sundry other passages of Scripture I vrge in the last place that of Saint Iohn These things are written that yee might beleeue that Iesus is the Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing yee might haue life through his name Here writing is made the meanes of beleeuing as beleeuing is made the meanes of life everlasting But Writing without Reading is void and of no effect the meaning thereof is as if he had said These are written to the end that by reading them yee may beleeue For to restraine it thus These thing are writen to the end that a Preacher by discoursing or making Sermons vpon some parcells of them may worke Faith in you is too absurd and shamelesse although I deny not that Sermons are an excellent meanes to beget faith also Vnto the authority and testimony of Scripture I adde the consent of ancient Fathers who although they be but little reckoned of by some children of these times yet haue euer beene of great credit with those that are wise and learned Tertullian in his Apologeticum wishes the Gentiles to search for the Seventies translation in Ptolemies library or if they will not take the paines to goe into the Synagogues of the Iewes that are among them there to heare the same translation read To what end that so they may finde the true God and beleeue S ◠Basill affirmeth that the Scriptures are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a common Apothecaries shop as it were of the soule and that every one may be a Physitian to himselfe and take from thence what he needs according to the nature of his disease St Ambrose saith Sacrarum Scripturarū lectio vita est the reading of the Holy Scripture is life according to that of our Sauiour Iesus Christ verba quae ego loquor spiritus sunt vita the words which I speake are spirit life Saint Hierome Frequenter evenit vt homines saeculares mystica nescientes simplici lectione pascantur It oftentimes cometh to passe that lay men ignorant of the mysteries of religion are fed and nourished by bare reading St Augustine Ama Ecclesiasticas literas legere c. Accustome thy selfe to read the letters of the Church that is the Scriptures and thou shalt not finde many things to demand of me but by reading and meditating if also with pure affection thou pray vnto God the giver of all good things thou shalt learne all things that are worthy to be knowne or certainely the most things rather by his inspiration then any admonition of men Finallie Iohn Bishop of Constantinople the noblest Preacher of all the Fathers and stiled for his eloquence Chrysostome that is Golden mouth and whom for his pregnant speeches to this purpose I haue reserued to the last saith as followeth All thinges necessarie are in Scripture so manifest and open that wee need nor Homilies nor Sermons were it not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 through our owne sluggishnesse and negligence And againe If you will studiously and diligently read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yee shall need no other thing for he is true that saith Quaerite invenietis seeke and yee shall find And againe Neque moreris alium doctorem c. Neither stay thou for other Doctors thou hast the oracles of God none can teach thee better then Dr Peter or Dr Paul And yet againe The Apostles and Prophets as the generall Schoolemasters of the world haue made their writings so plaine to all that every one of himselfe only by reading may learne and yee need nothing else but read And yet againe lastlie why say they should I goe to the Church if there be no Sermon there right the language of some of our time This saith he is it that hath corrupted and overthrown all For what need is there of a Preacher This necessity comes through our own negligence For what need sermons All things are cleare and plaine in holy Scripture whatsoever things are necessary are manifest But because yee are nice auditors and seeke to haue your eares delighted therefore doe you call for sermons Thus farre Chrysostom and thus the Fathers With whom agree our moderne Divines both forraine and domesticall who perhaps are more gracious with our adversaries then the Fathers And here I might alledge many passages out of P. Martyr Musculus Aretius Zanchie Piscator and others of whom one sweareth that whosoeuer diligently readeth shall at length be taken another affirmeth that God would haue the Bible read of all thereby to know the truth and to be saued and all of them though not in direct yet in equivalent tearmes avouch my conclusion But I will content my selfe with these few following Francis Iunius I beleeue because I haue read and read it written and againe Faith is wrought by hearing and by reading also Dr Fulke By reading of the Scriptures ignorant men may learne to haue true knowledge and wild wicked fellowes to become more staid in their wits Dr Whitaker by the reading and study of Scripture Faith is learned by the ordinary way to learne faith Againe Faith is cherished by reading saith Tertullian now faith is nourished and cherished ex quibus existit by the same meanes that bred it And yet againe Reading is the ordinary meanes of edifying and God is effectuall by reading giueth the Holy Ghost thereby Wotton Wee doubt not many haue wee are sure they might and may attaine to the same faith what if I say to iustifying faith too without any Preaching by the reading of Scripture For since it is partly the matter that must argue the Scripture to be the word of God partly the maiesty which any man may discerne in the manner of writing vnlesse it can be proved out of the Scripture that the Holy Ghost will not worke by these vpon the heart of him that readeth but only of him that heareth a man expound this word vnto him I see no sufficient reason why faith may not be had by reading where Gods ordinance of Preaching is only wanting and not wilfully neglected Dr Nowell in his Chatechisme appointed by authority to be
example of Christ for to his Father alone doth he addresse himselfe Father saith he the houre is come Giue me leaue to bestow a little paines in proofe hereof For it is now high time to be at downe Popery by all meanes it being of late growne too too impudent as hauing beene but too much countenanced Angells and Saints departed say Papists may be called vpon May be and why not must be Forsooth howsoever they would faine haue the vulgar sort beleeue it yet dare not the learned among them affirme it to be necessary And they haue reason For were it otherwise either it must be because we are so commanded or for that without it wee cannot obtaine our end namely grace and assistance in all our needs But commandement we haue none If we haue let them shew it together with promise of impetration if wee call vpon them or of commination if we neglect it But this they neither doe nor can shew The fittest place for it if any such were had beene where our Saviour the best Doctor teacheth vs how to pray Yet there he sendeth vs neither to Saints nor Angells but only to our Father Had they had any right to our prayers Christ was iust and would never haue appropriated that vnto God which was due also vnto them could they haue beene vnto vs all a present helpe in need I am sure neither would his loue haue concealed it from vs nor his goodnesse haue envied their help vnto vs. Directing vs therefore in this perfect platforme of Prayer vnto no other then our Father it is more then evident his will is not wee should seeke vnto any other Now as it is not necessary in regard of commandement so neither is it in respect of the end For our end namely impetration and obtaining our desires may be attained otherwise How so By the intercession and mediation of Christ Iesus This I trust they will not deny to be of it selfe sufficient every way Certainly without much derogation from the honour of Christ they cannot For he hath expressely promised that whatsoever we shall aske the Father in his name shall be granted vnto vs. So that neither in this respect is such invocation necessary How then Forsooth Pious and Profitable for so they state it But if that only be Pious which is pleasing and acceptable vnto God and no worship bee accepted of him but that which is agreeable to his commandement then cannot such invocation be Pious For as we haue shewed it is no where commanded and not being commanded it is but a superstitious Willworship which the Lord with much indignation reiecteth demaunding who hath required these things at your hands And if it be not Pious then neither is it Profitable but vaine and to no purpose For so saith our Saviour In vaine doe they worship me teaching for doctrines the commandements of men But how vnprofitable and vnavaileable such Praiers are will more fullie appeare if we duly consider how vnfurnished of abilities both Angels and Soules departed are to helpe and steed vs when we call vpon them For to this end three things are necessarilie requisite particular knowledge of all our doings ready will to helpe and power enabling them to helpe vs. First I say Knowledge not of the state of the Church militant in generall for such we deny not vnto the Saints departed much lesse vnto the Angels whom God hath appointed to be the Gardians of his chosen people but of vs all and all our actions in particular yea of the secret cogitations of the heart and the inward sinceritie thereof For Prayer is not alwaies Vocall but sometimes Mentall only such as was that of Hannah and oftentimes consisteth of such groanes and sighes as cannot bee vttered And when it is vttered becomes Vocal speech and whatsoeuer is externall is but the carcase thereof the life and soule thereof is the internall truth of the heart it being nothing else but a powring out of the soule or discharging of the heart before God Which being so I would faine learne if God only be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Scriptures every where teach and it be a prerogatiue peculiar to him alone to trie and search the heart how either Angels or Spirits deceased come to the knowledge of those Prayers that are only conceived in the minde or can discerne with what affection they are delivered They may perhaps say This people approacheth with their lips but whether the heart be neere or farre off that is beyond their skill So is it also particularly to know the outward state and to heare the Vocall Prayers of all men wheresoever throughout the whole world For they are not as God present at once every where but as creatures bounded and measured by time and place so that at one time they cannot occupie more then one place and consequently cannot take notice of all what is done at the same time in every place True it is the blessed Angels of God sometimes attend vpon vs here on earth but ordinarily they wait vpon the throne of God in heaven When they are sent with any message they come vnto vs and when they haue done their errand they returne againe So that as well ascending as descending Iacobs ladder neither doe we know when any of them come vnto vs or how long they stay with vs neither doe themselues alwaies know in what state we are or what wee pray for in particular As for soules departed as it is no part of their office to encomber themselues with our businesses so if we may beleeue Scripture they haue no particular knowledge of them yea they are often taken from among vs to the end they may not be troubled with them And indeed not knowing of themselues as being absent if they haue any such knowledge it must needs be by revelation or relation from others Is it from the Angells then But they know not all our needs as not being alwaies with vs. And what a compasse is it that the Angells come downe hither and then returne backe againe to acquaint the Saints with our needs that they may pray for vs Is it from Soules newly arrived Surely they at their departure are more carefull of themselues and their owne future state then inquisitiue after the state of others And the knowledge they carry hence with them can be but of a few things neere at hand which they haue seene and heard not which were farre distant or of all wheresoeuer and whensoeuer done Besides what a dreame is it that those ancient Saints should then only interceede for vs when by some of these new comers they are particularly informed of vs whence is it then Forsooth from divine revelation what speciall and particular then when we pray Nor so neither saith Bellarmine For then the Church would not so boldly say vnto the Saints Pray for
later shorter and taller broader and narrower thicker and thinner greater and lesser then himselfe and such like of the same garbe But I study to be briefe it is high time to remoue my hand as they say from the Table Onely I must forewarne you that if being vnable to vntie these knots you shall attempt to cut them asunder with the sword of Gods Omnipotence you shall but loose your labour For if they be contradictions as vndoubtedly they are your Angelicall Doctor can tell you that they fall not within the compasse of Divine Power So that of force you must either demonstrate that these things are not contradictorie which I am sure you can neuer doe or as becommeth Christian ingenuity you must for ever bid farewell to Transubstantiation and yeeld vnto the truth discouered vnto you And thus at length by Gods assistance haue I finished the taske you haue laid vpon me fully answered whatsoeuer here you haue alleaged in maintenance of your Reall Presence My desire now is that laying aside all prejudice you will but with indifference read what I haue replied therevnto Which if you shall vouchsafe to doe I perswade my selfe it will make you to remit much of that confidence you had in this cause when first you sent this Schedule vnto me Especially if withall you consider that the wittiest and subtlest heads amongst you could never finde it so clearely and strongly grounded either vpon Scripture or Fathers as you pretend Scotus sirnamed the subtle Doctor affirmeth that there is extant in Scripture no place so expresse as without declaration of the Church can evidently constraine a man to admit of Transubstantiation And this saith Bellarmine is not altogether vnprobable For although the scripture may seeme vnto vs so clear as it may constraine a man that is not froward yet it may iustly be doubted whether it be so seeing most learned and witty men such as Scotus specially was haue thought the contâ—ary The same Scot farther saith that were it not for the authority determination of the Roman Church the words of Christ and of the Fathers might more simply plainely truly be vnderstood and expounded Nay hee yet farther addeth and your Cardinal Bellarmine confesseth it that before the Lateran Councell Transubstantiation was not a doctrine of Faith and he wondreth that being no principle article and such as exposeth the Christian Faith to contempt it could be receaued and beleeued The Cardinall of Cambray also doubteth not to avouch that that manner which supposeth the substance of Bread still to remaine is possible neither is it contrary to reason or the authority of scripture Nay it is easier to conceaue and more reasonable then that which saith the substance doth leaue the accidents And of this opinion no inconvenience doth seeme to ensue if it could be accorded with the Churches determination And he addeth that the opinion which holdeth the substance of Bread not to remaine doth not evidently follow of the Scripture nor to his seeming of the Churches determination Cardinall Cajetan is as peremptory that there appeareth nothing in the Gospell that can force a man properly to vnderstand these words This is my body and that were it not for the interpretation of the Roman Church they might very well admit another sense as that of the Apostle the Rocke was Christ. To these Cardinals may wee ioyne another Cardinall though happily he neuer ware the Cap I mean Fisher Bishop of Rochester who expresly averreth that in that place of Mathew where the institution of the Sacrament is recorded there is never a word whereby it may bee proued that there is made in the Masse the true presence of the flesh and bloud of Christ. Gabriel Biel also The Scriptures may be salved and expounded after a more easie vnderstanding And Occam This doctrine that the substance of bread remaineth is subiect to lesser inconveniences and is not so repugnant to reason the Scriptures And Durand It is great rashnesse to say that the body of Christ cannot by divine power be in the Sacrament but by converting bread into it Howbeit if that way which supposeth bread to remaine were indeed true many doubts which meet vs holding it not to remaine were dissolued The Master of the Sentences also freely confesseth that if it be demanded what that conversion is whether formall or substantiall or of another kinde he is not sufficient to define From these your Iesuits swarue not very much Gregory de Valentia saith that the Fathers spake of Transubstantiation somewhat obscurely simply as thinking they could not be vnderstood of Catholikes but Catholikely and least they should haue exposed the mystery to be laughed at of Infidels if in their popular Sermons they should haue vnfolded their minds Your Secular Priests affirme that it was concluded among the Fathers of the Societie and what Catholike would not beleeue them that the Fathers haue not so much as touched the point of Transubstantiation Finally not to muster vp any more it is well knowne that divers of your Priests being demanded if after sentence of death pronounced vpon them that very morning when they were to be executed they might haue leaue to say Masse to the intent they might be certaine of their owne intention to consecrate and not doubtfully depend vpon anothers whether after consecration for the confirmation of our Faith in the point of Transubstantiation they durst to say thus vnto the multitude Vnlesse that which is now in this Chalice whose Accidents you see be the very selfe same bloud which issued out of the side of Christ hanging on the crosse let mee haue no part either in the bloud of Christ or in Christ himselfe for ever and so with these last words bid farewel vnto the world being I say demanded whether they durst adventure to doe so they all with one voice denied it And Father Garnet in a conference with the Deanes of the Chappell Pauls and Westminster being in particular asked the like answered very perplexedly not daring to hazard his saluation therevpon All these testimonies duly pondered and considered you must needs acknowledge vnlesse you see better then these quick-sighted Eagles that you haue not so strong hold either in Scripture or Fathers or right reason as you imagined and that not only the name but the Doctrine also of Transubstantiation hath beene but of late created an article of your Faith It remaineth that I entreat you these things vndoubtedly being thus that you suffer not your selfe any longer to be beguilded with novelties vnder pretence of antiquitie but rather that you open your eyes and stretch forth your armes to embrace the truth now that she offereth her selfe so manifestly vnto you And this I intreat the more earnestly because of the great danger that followeth vpon this errour For if Christ bee not present in the Sacrament in such sort as you hold there
els would not Calvin haue cavilled at those words Vnlesse a man be borne againe of Water c. Is not the doctrine of the blessed Sacrament necessary Yet how many expositions of this is my Body So is that of Iustification yet twenty expositions of Scripture about the formall cause thereof So also is the doctrine of the Trinity and of Christs Divinity and humanity yet Ebionits Arians Nestorians Eutychians Valentiâ—ians Monothelites and Apollinarists holding heresies against them proue them all to their thinking out of Scripture Ergò Scripture is not so easy as I make it For where all things are plaine there men commonly agree I. D. The truth is being demanded the rule of Faith I named the Scripture and being farther demanded a rule whereby to know the sense of Scripture I answered two things First that all things necessary to salvation are so expresly and plainly set downe that there needs no farther rule secondly that those places which are more obscure are to be expounded by those that are more plaine and that sense which disagreeth is to bee reiected that which agreeth may safely be admitted Safely I say for although haply it may not be the right yet dangerous it cannot be as long as it accords with the Analogy of Faith This I declared somewhat at large in the writing sent to Mr Bayly which I perceaue hath come to your hands also yet satisfies not Otherwise you would not thus dispute against it But know you against whom you dispute Certainly not against me only but the ancient Fathers who affirme the same that I doe For touching the Perspicuity of Scripture in things necessary thus St Augustine In those things which are openly laid downe in Scripture are to be found all things which containe Faith and manners of liuing to wit Hope and Charity And St Chrysostome All things necessary are open and manifest so that there needed not homilies or Sermons were it not through our owne negligence And Cyril of Alexandria To the end they might be knowne to all both small and great he hath delivered them vnto vs in such familiar speech that they exceed no mans capacity So the rest And this is so true that your Gregory of Valentia confesseth it Such verities saith he concerning our faith as are absolutely and necessarily to be knowne and beleeued of all men are plainly taught in the Scriptures themselues So Sixtus Senensis also and others of your side As touching the interpretation of darker places by the plaine thus Saint Basil those things which seeme to bee ambiguous and obscurely spoken in some places of holy writ are enlightned by those which in other places are open and perspicuous And St Augustine There is nothing almost among these obscurities but in other places one may finde it most plainly delivered And St Chrysostome The Scripture every where when it speaketh any thing obscurely interpreteth it selfe againe in another place And this is the common voice of all the rest So that the answere I gaue you being no other then that wich I had learned of the Fathers you cannot reiect it but you must reiect the Fathers with all But let vs heare your reason The Doctrine say you of Baptisme of the Eucharist of Iustification of Christs two natures are necessary yet some texts vpon which they are grounded be litigious Grant it be so yet some againe are clear and evident That Christians are to be baptized what more plaine then that Goe teach all nations Baptizing them That the Eucharist is to be administred and receiued is clear by the institution of our Saviour and the practise of his Apostles That wee are iustified by Faith without the workes of the law wee haue the evident testimony of Saint Paul That Christ is God the very first words of Saint Iohns Gospell testifie In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and that word was God And lastly that hee is Man also what more expresse then those words of Saint Paul There is one God and one Mediator betweene God men the Man Christ Iesus If other places be not so plain they are to be expounded by these or the like But it may be your Doctrine of Baptisme is the absolute necessity thereof vnto salvation If so then certainely that place of S. Iohn is not cleare enough for it For it is not necessary it should be vnderstood of Christian Baptisme which was not yet instituted or it must be meant of those that are Adulti such as Nicodemus was to whom our Saviour spake In like manner if your doctrine of the Eucharist be Transubstantiation neither is that other place plaine enough for it For it is manifest both by the circumstances of the Text and the testimonie of the Fathers that the Relatiue This hath reference to Bread Now Bread in proper speech cannot bee Body as your owne men confesse Then is it so tropically and consequently no Transubstantiation The same doe I say of the errours about Iustification which should particularly haue beene shewed if you had quoted any particular place As for those Hereticks they were such as the Prophet speaketh of who in seeing saw and yet perceaued not hauing closed their eyes that they might not see And therefore it is a foule fault in you to excuse their obstinacy by charging the Scriptures with obscurity That Rule is sufficient which is able to convince the Conscience and satisfie all those who loue the truth and are ready to acknowledge it when it is made known though it stop not the mouths of refractary stubborne Hereticks This perhaps your living judge by vertue of fire and fagot may bee able to effect but the other if evidence of Scripture cannot nor he nor his Church will ever be able to performe More of this see in the Treatise sent to Mr Baylie N. N. If as I write to M. Baylie you may not relye too much on the authority of the Fathers because of their differences in opinions much lesse may you vpon the authority of our men being worse divided For they differ not in essential points we doe They wrote not so bitterly one against another as we doe Lastly they differed in matters as yet vndefined by a generall Councell and so not dangerous but wee haue no Councells nor any other meanes to decide our causes So that you cannot knowe which of vs giueth the true sense of Scripture I. D. That the Fathers are no way a sufficient ground of Faith I haue so strongly proued vnto M. Baylie that me thinkes none of you is in hast to answere it Among the rest of my reasons this I confesse was one that they varied so much in opinion one from another yea and are now made to vary from themselues through your intolerable abusing of them This I declared at large wherevnto for farther evidence I now adde an example or two S. Ambrose or whosoever is author of
and last is the Knowledge he had both of the worke and the houre The Houre saith he is come Hee knew it therefore else how could he say it And out of this knowledge was it that so often he foretold of both Of his Passion As saith he Moses lifted vp the serpent in the wildernesse even so must the sonne of man be lifted vp And againe more plainely vnto his disciples hee shewed that he must goe vnto Ierusalem and suffer many things of the elders and chiefe Priests and Scribes and be killed Of the Houre For sometime saith hee Nondum venit hora mea my houre is not yet come Another time Iesus knew that his houre was come And if Simeon and Anna and other of the Iewes foreknew the time of his comming in the flesh and accordingly expected him should not hee much more know the houre appointed vnto his sufferings and accordingly prepare himselfe for it For as himselfe witnesseth for that houre he came into the world But how came he to the knowledge hereof First by the Scripture and the prediction of the Prophets For thus saith he it is written and thus it behooved Christ to suffer But where is it written Every where almost And concerning his Passion in the Psalmes of David especially the prophecy of Esay And touching the houre in the blessing of Iudah by Iacob recorded in Genesis and that memorable prophecy of seaventy weekes in Daniell as is aboue already specified All which Scriptures he himselfe could not but vnderstand who opened the minds of others that they might vnderstand them Againe he came to the knowledge hereof by speciall revelation as being a Prophet yea the greatest of all Prophets For being in his humane nature assumpted into the Deity and to this end assumpted that when the houre was come in it hee might suffer it could not be that either the houre or the worke of the houre should be concealed from him The Word vndoubtedly knew it for he appointed it As vndoubtedly he made it knowne vnto his manhood which he had so neerely taken vnto him for that the same so mainely concerned it If this be so will some say why then knowing it did he not avoide it was it because he could not Not so For he was omnipotent and hee only had power of his life to lay it downe or to take it vp neither could any without his owne permission take it from him If hee would hee might haue prayed to his Father hee would haue sent him more then twelue legions of Angells to preserue him And if before the houre was come hee had so often freed himselfe from the hands of his most violent enimies why should he not in the very houre be as able to deliver himselfe For his power was still the same and never a whit diminished He could then but would not avoide it And why would he not First because his Father had decreed it and he would in no case bee disobedient vnto him For he came to doe his will and therefore professed it was vnto him meat and drinke to doe it In regard whereof he disclaimes his owne will Not my will saith he but thy will be done Wherefore though hee were the Sonne yet he learned obedience and became obedient vnto death even the death of the crosse Secondly because of the tender loue his Father inspired into him towards mankind For it was the loue he bare them which made him so willing and out of it though wee were his enimies yet he was content to dye for vs and to lay downe his life though it were so deare vnto him Lastly had he not bin willing neither had he satisfied His willingnesse proceeding from such loue was the very forme of his sufferings and made them meritorious Without theÌ„ sacrifice is vaine and without vertue according to that misericordiam volo non sacrificium I will mercy and not sacrifice and againe melior est obedientia quam victimae obedience is better then sacrifice But it will bee said that all this notwithstaÌ„ding he seemed very vnwilling to dye For did not he very passionately entreat his Father to bee delivered from that houre And that if it were possible the cup might passe from him For satisfaction of which doubt we are to know that Christ though his manhood were assumed into the Deity yet was hee not thereby freed from ought that is humane Being man therefore as man he was measured by time and his apprehensions could not all be in an instant but one after another successiuely Wherefore the first apprehension of his Passion was simple as of a thing evill in it selfe and afflictiue to his nature without any further consideration for so only Sence inferiour reason at the first presented it vnto him And thus farre it is true he desired to decline it Neither was it evill so to doe it being agreeable to that law of nature which in creation was imposed vpon vs. But when in the second place it was by superiour reason presented vnto him invested with other circumstances as namely that it was his Fathers will that for this end he was sent to the world and that without it the world could not be redeemed there being no other meanes besides to effect it forthwith apprehending it in this manner hee yeelded most willingly therevnto and said vnto his Father not as I will but as thou wilt Iust as a Patient who considering the potion offered him by the Physitian only as bitter distastfull loatheth and abhorreth it but considering with all the operation thereof and what good it may doe him he readiy admitteth and accepteth of it And thus much touching the knowledge Christ had of his Passion and the houre thereof together with his willingnesse to suffer in obedience to his Father and out of the loue he bare vs. Whence we may learne first from his knowledge that as he knew both what and when hee was to suffer in his owne person so he knowes also both what and when to suffer in his mysticall body This may minister matter of singular comfort vnto vs. For if it be so what harme can at any time betide vs Hee will not suffer so much as a haire to fall from our head but as hee pleaseth For hee hath numbered them all and there is not a teare we shed from our eyes but he laies it vp in his bottle Many may be the troubles of the Righteous but as he foresees them all so will he support vs in them and one day deliver vs from them all Secondly from his willingnesse to suffer for vs to assure our selues that his free-will offering is accepted of his Father we may confidently râ—ly thereon as a full satisfaction for all our sinnes Withall that we be also ready and willing to suffer for him What ever can be laid vpon vs is nothing to that which hee endured for vs.
and yet life continues As touching Power that is Gracious habits imprinted vpon the soule and enabling to operate I distinguish againe For some of them either in themselues or vs argue defect and imperfection and pertaine only to the condition of this present life such as are Faith Hope and Repentance and the like Others import perfection pertaine also to the next life among which excells Charity The former in the end of this life cease For we beleeue because we see not and hope because we possesse not and repent because we sinne But when wee see possesse and are free from sinne then Faith Hope and Repentance vanish away As for the latter they never cease but continue with vs evermore Yet here againe are we once more to distinguish For these habits may be considered either in regard of Substance or Degree In regard of degree we confesse they may suffer abatement For Faith may fall from its Plerophorie oâ— fulnesse to an Oligopistie or lower degree thereof and Charity also may remit much of its fervor So that in this respect a man may be said to bee moribundus declining as it were vnto death But in regard of Substance or Being we confidently affirme in such sort as is aboue said that they never perish and the spirituall man neuer dieth To winde vp all in a word actus intermitti potest gradus remitti sed habitus ipse nunquam potest amitti the act may suffer intermission for a time the degree abatement or remission but the habit or life it selfe never loosing or amission The question being thus clearely stated let vs now proceed to proofe That the life of Grace in all them that are giuen vnto Christ by the Father is eternall might be proued by many arguments All what I haue to say shall be reduced to one If the life of grace at any time fayle and the elect of God spiritually dye either it is through the deficiencie of the Procreant and Conservant causes of life or the efficiencie power of the contrary corrupting causes But it is neither through the one or the other Ergo neither doth the life of Grace at any time fayle nor the elect of God die The Major proposition needs no proofe For a third cause cannot be named and therefore of necessitie it must bee one of the two if there be any The Minor therefore I am by all meanes to fortifie and to maintaine that neither the Procreant and Conservant causes fayle nor the contrary corrupting causes prevaile The efficient and preseruing causes of spirituall life is as wee haue shewed the holy and blessed Trinitie the Father through his Sonne by the powerfull operation and working of the holy Ghost These if they fayle either it is because they cannot or because they will not continue this life To say they cannot is no lesse then blasphemie and contrary both to Scripture and reason For Omnipotence is an essentiall attribute of the Deitie so that he can no more cease to bee almightie then cease to be himselfe and loose his being In the Creed is this title ascribed vnto the Father how-be it not exclusiuely For the Sonne and the holy Ghost being coessentiall with him they are coequall also in might and power The sonne by the word of his power created all things together with his Father and by the same word vpholdeth all things And to the holy Ghost power also is attributed even the same power whereby things were created and wonders aboue the reach of nature are wrought If it bee said that the Sonne by taking our nature vpon him made himselfe inferiour to his Father I confesse it and withall that his mediatorie power is lesse then his Fathers Neverthelesse all power is giuen him both in heauen and earth such a power as no creature besides is capable of and which was giuen to this very ende that he might both giue life continue it vnto eternity Vnto which had it not beene sufficient without question greater had beene giuen for the Father may not fayle of his end Of the power of God therefore there can bee no doubt but that he is mighty to saue able to make vs stand able to keepe vs so that none vnlesse he will can take vs out of his hands What say we then to his will For as in him that is by vertue of the first life wee liue so if either hee withdraw himselfe from vs or suffer others to withdraw vs from him we cannot subsist Surely as he is able so if we may beleeue Scripture hee doth stablish vs in Christ we are kept by the power of God to saluation and our life is hid with God in Christ. But enquire we a little deeper into this mystery And first the will of the Father appeareth many waies By Election vnto life which being absolute not conditionall is immutable For the foundation of God standeth sure hauing this seale the Lord knoweth who are his And the names of all the elect are written in the booke of life out of which they can neuer be blotted For they are ordained vnto life and appointed by God to obtaine salvation through Christ. By his loue also which is the cause of Election I haue loued thee saith he with an eternall loue a loue which as it is without beginning so shall it likewise be without ending Nay if the loue of a mother is more to her child when she beareth it in her armes then while it was in her womb we may not think but the loue of the Father continueth at least as great towards vs when we are new borne of him as it was when we were yet but conceaued as it were by election Thirdly by donation of Christ to the elect For what greater testimonie either of his loue or of his will to saue then this So God loued the world saith Christ that hee gaue his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue euerlasting life Fourthly by donation of vs vnto Christ. For it is the will of the Father that of those he hath giuen him he should loose none And here it is said that he hath giuen vnto the Sonne power over all flesh that to as many as he hath giuen him hee should giue vnto them everlasting life And lastly by the couenant made with vs. It is a couenant oâ— salt an euerlasting couenant And I will betroth thee vnto me foreuer saith God And againe This is my couenant with them saith the Lord my spirit that is vpon thee my words which I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed saith the Lord from hence forth and foreuer And thus you see the Father is willing what the Sonne His willingnesse also appeares many
the Church may be without them So was it for some while after Christs Ascention for then neither was the Christian Church so Eminent as that of the Iewes nor was it Vniversall as being confined within Iudea nor great in number as consisting but of a very few nor in Possession of the name Catholike it being a word of a latter date and such as could not well be giuen it vntill it was growne Catholike So will it be also if wee may beleeue your owne writers in the time of Antichrist For then the Church shall bee darkned all externall communion with it shall cease there shall be no Sacrament in publike places all the glory and dignity of Ecclesiasticall order shall lye buried none shall come vnto the solemnity of the Lambe an innumerable multitude shall cleaâ—e vnto Antichrist even all besides the elect and those whose names are written in the booke of life But lastly whether these things be Markes or no is not now much materiall for it makes little to the purpose wee haue sufficiently proued that the Church is not the last Resolution of Faith As touching the second point that the Church may be beleeved securely for that shee can neither deceiue nor bee deceiued I demand what you meane by the Church If the company of all true Beleeuers that now are and heretofore haue beene including the holy Apostles together with them then I grant it For these were so lead by the Spirit into all truth that they could not possibly erre in any matter of Faith that was either to be taught by them or knowne by vs. But if you meane the Present Church in every age successiuely after the Apostles as here Saint Austin doth referring his friend Honoratus therevnto then I distinguish Either you must vnderstand thereby the whole number of true beleeuers who for the present life in the world or the Society and Fellowship of those that in their time rule and sway most in the Church If you take it in the former sense I grant what you say to be true in Fundamentall points but not in such as are not absolutely necessary nor preiudice the Foundation of Faith If in the latter then I affirme that the Church may both deceiue and be deceiued even in Doctrines of highest consequence neither can with such security bee beleeued Witnesse the time when the whole world groaned vnder Arianisme and the greatest part of the Prelates together with Liberius Bishop of Rome subscribed therevnto Neither doth the passage you alledge out of Saint Austin inferre the contrary For although the surest course to put an end to all labours and turmoiles be to follow the way of Catholike discipline which hath flowne downe to vs from Christ by his Apostles yet the Authority that swayeth most in the Present Church doth not alwaies either follow this way her selfe or direct others vnto it as for example it did not in the time aboue mentioned of the Arian heresy And thus much in answere vnto your generall ground N. N. Now I will shew first out of the old Testament how it was prefigured and prophecied and in the new both promised againe exhibited and confirmed by the intendment interpretation of the gravest and most ancient Fathers that haue lived in the Church of God from age to age who vnderstand so the said Figures and foreshewing of the old Testament As for example the Bread and Wine mysteriously offered vnto almighty God by Melchizedek King and Priest who bare the type of our Saviour The shew-bread among the Iewes that only could bee eaten of them that were sanctified And the Bread sent miraculously by an Angell to Elias whereby he was so strengthned as hee travelled forty daies by vertue only of that Bread These three sorts of bread to haue beene expresse Figures of this Sacrament of the true flesh of Christ therein contained doe testify by one consent the ancient Fathers as Cyprian â—lemens Alexandrinus Ambrose Hierom Chrysostom Augustine Cyrill Arnobius Euseb. many others as my author fetâ—eh downe Three other figures not expressed in the forme of Bread but other things more excellent then Bread as the Paschal Lamb the blood of the testament described in Exodus and to the Hebrues and fulfilled by Christ when he said This cup is the new testament in my blood and againe this is my blood of the new testament The Manna also sent by God from heaven was an expresse figure of this Sacrament as appeareth by the words of our Saviour and of the Apostle I. D. This Argument seemeth to be of great esteeme among you for who almost vrgeth it not and that with great confidence It standeth thus Melchizedecks Bread and Wine the Shew-bread Elias his Bread the Paschal-Lambe the Bloud of the Testament and Manna bee Figureâ— of our Sacrament Ergo Christ is corporally and locally present therein by way of Transubstantiation The consequence you maintaine in the next Section the Antecedent in this Wherevnto I answer first that the Legall sacraments and ceremonies if we may beleeue Scripture directly respected Christ So saith S. Paul They are a shadow of things to come but the Body is of Christ. And again Sacrifice and offerings thou wouldest not but a Body hast thou prepared me And hence is it that he doubteth not to call Christ our Passeouer or 〈◊〉 Lambâ— and to affirm that the Rock whereof the Israelites dranke in the â—â—ldernesse was Christ. Yea our Saviour himselfe plainly professeth that the Brasen serpent did prefigure him and that he was the Bread or Manna that came downe from heauen But that those Sacraments and Ceremonies are Types Figures of ours otherwise then by representing the same Substance together with ours I suppose if you searched every corner of Scripture neuer so narrowly you should never finde it therein Adde herevnto that our SacrameÌ„ts are themselues Figures being as S Augustine saith one thing and signifying another Whence it would follow that the old Sacraments being Figures of the New they should be Figures of Figures and Sacraments of Sacraments which standeth not greatly with reason For thus the Circumcision of the foreâ—kinne should figure the Water of Baptisme and water Christ and curious heads might runne on infinitely and as Irenaeus sometime obiected vnto the Heretikes of his time might ever bee devising of types vpon types and figures vpon figures Lastly if the Sacraments of the old Testament were but Signes of ours it would follow that they were ordained rather for the benefit of the Christian then the Iewish Church which is absurd For of our Sacraments which you say is the thing signified by theirs benefit they never reaped any as neuer being partakers of them and to leaue vnto them no more but bare signes that is emptie shels without the kernell how it might availe them I cannot conceaue Certainely all Sacraments
Sacramentaries imagine this Sacrament to be only the creatures of Bread and Wine I would faine knowe whom you vnderstand by these Sacramentaries If the Church of England it is a loud vntruth For we acknowledge that the Sacrament consisteth of two things the one Earthly the other Heavenly as Irenaeus speaketh that is of the outward Elements and the Lords Body If there be any other who imagin as you say spare them not let them hardly be called Sacramentaries But know withall that we detest both them you them for retaining no more then the signes you for excluding them and establishing nothing but Shewes Accidents insteed of them In regard whereof they may iustly requite you with the name of Accidentaries N. N. And if Protestants will say for an evasion as they doe that their Bread is not Common Bread but such Bread being eaten and receaued by Faith worketh the effect of Christs Body in them and bringeth them his Grace Catholikes answer that so did the Figures and Sacraments also of the old Testament being receaued by Faith in Christ to come as the ancient Fathers and Preachers receaued thē And forasmuch as Protestants doe farther hold that there is no difference betweene the vertue and efficacie of those old Sacraments and ours which Catholikes deny it must needs follow that both Catholikes and Protestants agree that the Fathers of the old Testament beleeued in the same Christ to come that we doe now being come their Figures and Shadowes must be as good as our truth in the Sacrament that was prefigured if it remaine Bread still after Christs institution and Consecration I. D. Here least wee should escape your hands by some one Evasion or other you endeavor very diligently to block vp the passage against vs. For whereas your Argument was that vnlesse Christ be really present in the Sacrament the Iewish Figures are as good as our truth you bring vs in answering thereto that our Bread is not Common Bread but such as being eaten by Faith worketh the Effect of Christs Body and bringeth Grace Indeed we say that our Sacramentall Bread is not Common Bread and we farther confesse that whosoeuer receaueth the same worthily eateth withall the Body of Christ and receaueth Grace But we neuer say it in answer to your Objectiō neither cā we with any reason For wee are not ignorant that the signes also in the old Sacraments were not Common or Profane things but sanctified and set apart to holy vses and that being receaued by Faith they were thereby partakers of Christ and all his benefits as well as we The right answer wee giue is by denying the consequence our Sacraments as wee haue shewed many waies excelling those of the old Testament though there be no Transubstantiation at all So that this is not an Evasion as you say of ours but rather a fiction and device of yours to the end you may seeme to prevaile in something being not able to gainesay the true Answer But Catholikes you say deny the old Sacraments that Vertue and efficacie which they grant to the new I know they doe For they hold that the new Sacraments justifie and conferre Grace by the very work done without any respect to the merit or Faith of the receauer which the old Sacraments did not But hereby you vtterly overthrow your owne Argument For how doth this follow vnlesse there be a Real Presence our sacraments excell not seeing in your owne opinion they are farre more Vertuous and Effectual then those of the old Covenant Howbeit this Tenent of yours is too palpably absurd for it giueth vnto the creature a divine vertue of percing into the soul and cleansing the sinnes thereof which is proper vnto God And if the word preached profit vs nothing vnlesse it be mingled with Faith no nor the Flesh of Christ it selfe except it be eaten by Faith how can it be imagined that Water or Bread or any other Sacramentall Element should availe vnto Iustification without any respect vnto Faith at all Herevnto agree the Fathers S. Hierom Man only applyeth water but God the holy spirit by whom ou◠filthinesse is cleansed the sinnes of bloud are purged And S. Augustine Without this sanctification of invisible grace what doe the visible sacraments availe That visible Baptisme which wanted invisible sanctification nothing profited Simon Magus And againe Water clenseth the heart the word effecting it not because it is spoken but beleeued But of this enough N. N. But Catholike Fathers did vnderstand the matters far otherwise And to allege one for all for that hee spake in the sense of all in those daies S. Hierom talking of one of those foresaid Figures to wit of the shew-Bread and comparing it with the thing figured and by Christ exhibited saith thus There is so much difference betweene the Shew-bread and the body of Christ prefigured thereby as there is difference betweene the shadow and the Body whose shadow it is and betweene an image and the truth which the image representeth and betweene certaine shapes of things to come and the things themselues prefigured by those shapes And thus of Figures and presignifications of the old Testament I. D. To what end this passage of St Hierom To proue our Sacraments to be of greater vertue efficacy then those of old This indeed should be your conclusion but St Hieroms words inferre it not For hee compareth the Shew-bread not with the bread in the Eucharist but with Christs body betwixt which I confesse there is as maine a difference as there is betwixt the Shaddow and the Body But I beseech you is there not as great a difference betweene water in Baptisme and the Blood of Christ or bread in the Eucharist and the Body of Christ Doubtlesse there is for they are all but figures of the same Verity namely Christ. Whereas therefore you argue thus Hierom preferreth the body of Christ vnto Shew-bread as farre as the substance exceedeth the shadow Ergo our Sacraments are more vertuous then those of old or if you will for indeed I know not well what you would conclude Ergo the body of Christ is really present by transubstantiation it is a miserable non sequitur and without either rime or reason For vpon the same ground I may aswell inferre the contrary thus Christs body excells Eucharisticall Bread as much as the substance doth the shadow Ergo Shew-bread and the old Sacraments are more vertuous then ours The maine error is that you tye the Body of Christ vnto our new Sacraments if not vnto the Eucharist only whereas indeede he is the Truth of all Sacraments both old and new and therefore is alike present and powerfull in them all to all that beleeue as contrarily to the incredulous and vnbeleeuers his Grace is alike vneffectuall And thus much of your first Argument N. N. The opinion of the ancient Fathers grounded vpon the Scriptures as vpon those speeches of our Saviour This is my
Bellarmine this confession that it followeth not necessarily where succession is there is a Church Nor Continuance For the malignant Church hath lasted hitherto and will yet longer and many of the Churches planted by the Apostles are now failed which yet were true Churches Nor Visibility For the Church of Greece which you count Hereticall hath ever since the first founding of it beene and is still Visible And such Persecutions and Scandalls may arise in the Church as may much eclipse the glory thereof reducing the Saints to a small number scattering the Ministers suspending the exercise of Ecclesiasticall discipline and interrupting the publike service so as the true Professors seeking shelter from the storme shall hardly bee discerned So was it vnder the old Testament in the daies of Elias so vnder the new when the whole world groned vnder Arianisme and so shall it bee in the time of Antichrist as out of your writers in the former treatise I haue already declared Nor lastly Vnitie For as the Church of God is one so the Divels Babylon is also one And who knowes not what jars and dissentions sometimes were among the Corinthians and Galatians and betweene the East and West Churches about the celebration of Easter which neverthelesse were true Churches And thus you see how vncertaine and deceivable your notes be If this yet be not enough to perswade you I hope being backed with authority of your great Cardinall Bellarmine it may suffice who maketh them in themselues to bee but probable N. N. If it could be proved that these notes belong to the Protestant Church it would much alter your opinion I. D. It seemes you take for granted that these notes are to be found in the Romā Church But you presume too farre Was never a more broken Succession in any Church then that Who at the first succeeded whom is vncertaine namely in what order Linus Clemens Cletus Anacletus should stand About thirty Schisms haue beene therein some of them continuing scores of yeares together in which haue beene two Popes three Popes at once neither could it easily bee discerned which was lawfull Pope Fifty of them in a row were Monsters rather then Men Apotacticall and Apostaticall rather then Apostolicall How many haue intruded themselues into that See by Simonie How many haue beene intruded at the pleasure of harlots Yea a Whore hath sitten in the Pontificall chaire So saith Sigebert Marianus Scotus Bergomensis Iohannes Stella Nauclerus Iohannes Lucidus Baptista Ignatius Balaeus Sabellicus Ranulphus Petrarch Boccace Mathew Palmer Trithemius and Martinus Polonus all which it will bee hard for your new vpstarts of yesternight to outface or controle As for the rest of your Notes if the present Church of Rome be much degenerated from its Primitiue purity and nothing resemble that which Saint Paul first planted there as I am ready to proue whensoever you shall call vpon me for it then are they not to be found therein For neither hath it continued the same nor is the profession by which it is Visibly the same nor is it One with it selfe For of other differences and dissentions among you you shall heare more anon in the due place But can wee finde them in the Protestant Church Let vs trie That the Succession of Bishops in the Church of England vntil Arch-Bishop Cranmers time was lawfull I know you will not deny That he and all the Bishops in the time of K. Edward and Q. Elizabeth and so downeward were Canonically called and consecrated what stronger proofe can you desire then the publike Registers of every See Out of which so much as concernes this businesse is now published to the view of the whole world designing both the time when the place where together with the names of those Bishops that imposed hands And this is so cleare that your owne Cudsemius comming into England of purpose to obserue the state of our Church thus writeth concerning the state of the Calvinian sect in England it so standeth that it may either endure long or be suddenly changed and in a trice in regard of the Catholike order there in a perpetuall line of their Bishops and the lawfull succession of Pastors receiued from the Church for the honour whereof wee vse to call the English Calvinists by a milder tearme not Hereticks but Schismaticks Touching your other three Notes I presume it will not be denyed that a Church professing to beleeue in the Lord Iesus and by him in the holy and blessed Trinity and confessing all the Doctrines contained in the Scriptures together with the three Creeds of the Apostles the Nicene and of Athanasius hath hitherto continued Visible and in Vnity from the Apostles times And such is the Church of the Protestants for all this we both professe and confesse and whatsoever wee affirmatiuely hold the same in a manner doe you affirme with vs. For as for the Negatiues they are but novelties nor can you proue them out of any Antiquity Succession therefore Continuance visibility vnity belong vnto our Church I must entreat you to remember your promise and according therevnto to alter your mind And so much for your preamble N. N. Your treatise was not intended to me Howbeit you thank mee for my reply acknowledging your inability to answer and hoping I expect it not from you I. D. Whether your Treatise were intended to me or no is not much materiall Sure I am it was delivered mee as from you and therevpon did I returne you that reply which had it taken due effect I should haue had more cause to thanke God then now you haue to thanke mee Answer from your selfe I confesse I expected none◠for I knew your insufficiency But I hoped you would haue taken counsell of some more sufficient then your selfe and vpon conference with them haue sent me your common Answer Which because you haue not done being conscious to your owne inability it is a manifest argument of wilfull obstinacy and that you will not bee perswaded though be perswaded N. N. Notwithstanding you haue no reason to beleeue mee seeing other Divines not Papists only but Protestants also seeme to vnderstand the Fathers as you doe I. D. It is a foule vntruth that Protestants vnderstand the Fathers as you doe as shall by and by to your shame appeare In the meane season know that what I haue said I haue not barely affirmed but soundly proved and neglecting demonstratiue reasons meerely to bee swayed with humane authority is no other then to put off common sense and to forget that wee are reasonable creatures N. N. I except only against two or three passages the rest therefore are truly related and the letter of them is for the reall Presence Which how it can bee and yet no Transubstantion you vnderstand not The word Transubstantiation was indeed devised in the counsell of Lateran but the thing was alwaies beleeved of the ancient Fathers as appeareth by their words Conversion
for Titius as well as for Seius I assume but many Papists allow the sense I giue This if I would follow your course I might easily proue by all those Popish writers who acknowledge those words of the Fathers which we obiect against you without mentioning any of their Answers But so doing I should shew my selfe as ridiculous and vnconscionable as your Author Thus therefore Scotus Cameracensis Caietan Roffensis Biel Occam Durand Peter Lombard with some Iesuits and the Canon Law professe some of them that they could not finde Transubstantiation in the Scriptures and some that they could not in the Fathers Their expresse words you haue in mine Answere whether I referre you for it would be too long to transcribe them If so and all these were grand Papists I haue no reason to beleeue you or your Author rather then them nay great reason haue I to cleaue the faster vnto my opinion as better according both with Scripture Fathers N. N. Your second reason There are amongst vs differences even in many essentiall and fundamentall points as namely betweene Protestants and Puritans whatsoever D. Abbat Doue Willet Powel Sr Edward Hobby Rogers others say to the contrary And this you proue by Rogers Covel Ormrode Parks Willet Powel and sundry others I. D. That there are differences and dissentions amongst vs is too true and cannot bee denied This therefore wee grant But the Consequence which you inferre therevpon Ergo you may not yeeld vnto my iudgement or any of our side I deny For to make this follow you must of necessitie hold that where there are dissentions there you may not harken to any side A dangerous and desperate Position and the very Objection of the Iewes against Christianitie We may not beleeue because of your distractions By which reason as you may not heare vs so may not we you nor Turks and Infidels any of vs all how Orthodoxe soeuer because the Christian world is still full of contentions A man would thinke that diversitie of opinions especially in matters concerning soule and Salvation should rather quicken and stirre vp the minde diligently among all to search which is the truest then to cause it sit still and forbeare assent vntill all sides be accorded Neither let any pretend inabilitie for as Chrysostome saith Seeing we acknowledge the scriptures which are so true and plaine it will be an easie matter for to iudge And tell me hast thou any wit or iudgement For it is not a mans part barely to receaue whatsoever hee heareth Say not I am a learner and may be no iudge I can condemne no opinion this is but a shift c. And Gerson rendreth the true reason hereof The triall and examination of doctrines concerning Faith belongeth not only to the Councell Pope but also to every one that is sufficiently learned in the scriptures because every man is a sufficient iudge of that hee knoweth But ô yee miserable servitude and slauery of you the common sort of Papists your eyes are puld out of your heads neither are you allowed the vse of common sense and reason The Scriptures by which you should see are wrested out of your hands as a dangerous booke If you will see it must be by another mans eyes Your Faith must depend vpon the warrant of some equivocating Priest And whatsoever is said to the contrary though never so soundly proued you may in no case harken to it for why there are dissentions among you This reason being thus fully answered I might without more adoe passe on to the next but that I see by your spinning it to such a length you make great store of it Let vs therefore bestow a word or two more vpon it There are say you dissentions amongst vs. True And was there ever or will there ever be a Church so happy as to be altogether free of them If not why doe you vpbraid them vnto vs Is it because notwithstanding them we count one another brethren members of the same Church That is an Argument of our charity and that we dare not cut off and condemne as Hereticks every one that differeth though never so little from vs in opinion whereas you presently condemne to the pit of Hell all Christians whatsoever wheresoever and how many soever that will not vaile bonnet vnto the Popes Miter and beleeue all to bee true that hee resolues vpon But what May not brethren disagree and yet continue brethren Or doth every quarrell exclude out of the Church of God I trow not For then Paul and Barnabas Peter and Paul Victor and Polycrates Cyril and Theodoret Chrysostome and Theophilus Epiphanius and Chrysostome Hierome and Ruffin and sundry others should not be brethren Nay the East and West Churches dissenting about Easter and the Roman and African about Rebaptization should be no true Churches Yea but our differences are not in pettie matters but essentiall fundamentall points And such were also in the Churches of the Corinthians and Galathians for in the one they differed about the Resurrection of the dead in the other about the necessary observation of the law of Moses together with the Gospell And yet saith Bellarmine they were true Churches and they that so erred if they were ready to learne the truth and to beleeue it being taught were true members of them also But by your leaue sir your Author overlashes when he saith we differ in points Essentiall and Fundamentall neither doe our Divines only say it as you beare vs in hand but clearely demonstrate it also And indeed all the quarrell is rather about the shell then the kernell that is the outward gouernment ceremonies of the Church rather then the Faith of the Church or at the most it is rather about some deductions and conclusions in Divinitie then the Principles themselues and those truths that are necessary vnto salvation For as for the Article of Christs descent into Hell though your Author would insinuate the contrary yet there is not one of vs but willingly subscribes vnto it and acknowledgeth that Christ hath spoiled Hell and triumphed over Principalities and Powers and all the enimies of our salvation But whether he did this by descending locally in soule into the Hell of the Damned or Virtually and by the power of his Godhead is all the Question amongst vs whereby for ought I see we neither overturne the Article nor dissolue brotherhood And your selfe must needs confesse so much vnlesse you will disclaime brotherhood with Durandus and condemne him of a Fundamentall errour together with vs. For hee held that the soule of Christ descended into Hell not in the substance thereof but by certaine effects And heare the resolution of Suares the Iesuit touching this Article If by an article of faith saith he we vnderstand a truth which all the faithfull are bound explicitly to knowe and beleeue so I doe not thinke it necessary to reckon this among the Articles