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A65656 A small present to a Roman Catholique in opposition to his present hear-say tradition, as not agreeable to the rule of faith ... / by Henry Whistler, Bac. Theol. Whistler, Henry. 1657 (1657) Wing W1678A; ESTC R30189 9,060 20

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A SMALL PRESENT To a Roman CATHOLIQUE IN Opposition to his present Hear-say Tradition as not agreeable to the Rule of Faith By one that desires to walke with meeknesse towards them of a contrary way if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth and that they may awake out of the snare of the Devil as others awaking have wondred at their own vanity and misery dreaming so long without any sound reason By Henry Whistler Bac. Theol. LONDON Printed by W. W. for Thomas Paybody dwelling in Queenes Head Court in Pater Noster Row 1657. A small PRESENT To A Roman Catholique In opposition to his present Hear-say Tradition as not agreeable to the rule of Faith A Roman Catholique Neighbour lately visiting me with usual respect I after my usuall manner of hearty affection would have perswaded him to Reformation for the good of his soul He replyed If his soul and others like were unsafe they were most of any men to be pittied having so many things perswading to rest under the Roman-Church Judgment for certainty Before I had long since given out some Papers to prove the Roman-Church contradictory to herself in all her waies So the beame being broken it would not be safe or just to weigh in her balances He desired of me something againe in writing for their learned to read whereof he had heard lately divers say that they wanted worke and for reviving occasion he brought Rushworths Dialogue which waveth my former allegations in effect thereby granted and endeavoureth an other way of certainty for his Disciple in dispute against Protestancy not to trust either Holy Scripture or other Bookes alleadged for the proofe of the Roman Religion through all ages though commending such students as for their great and profitable paines but not appliable to the capacities of the Vulgar who might therein be intangled if they meet with a cunning Adversary but rather securely to rest in prepossession of the Roman Church of the present Age believing his Christian Fathers in report from Christian Fore-fathers of what they affirmed age after age to have learned as by Tradition universall from Christ and his Apostles without any knowne opponent it seeming impossible that at any time all Fathers should together deceive their children or that all Children should in all Countries be suddainely deceived without any known cause or any known time of such universall change a meere Dreame Before you require us to shew such time of change prove any such time of universall accord in the present points of the Roman Faith and practice The present points controverted are not contained in the ancient Creeds therefore not then believed to be necessary The points of ancient Creeds are sufficiently grounded in holy Scriptures the Scriptures so sure that the Romans were delivered thereunto Rom. 6.17 to obey not to overcome the form of Doctrine to which they were delivered as since they deny what the Canonical Epistle to the Romans affirmeth concupiscence to be sinne and affirm what is therein denyed Justification by Workes The Roman Church opposed the whole Epistle to the Hebrewes as not Canonical witnesse Jerome and Augustine who neverthelesse professed that they believed it to be Canonicall A cleare proofe that they did not believe the Roman Tradition to beare the rule Tradition for the power of a general Councill alleadged in publique by the generall Councill at Basil against Tradition alleadged in publique for the Popes power to be supreame How excuseable from contradiction Hear now the Roman Catholique-Disciple his Interloquie I am told that some of our Doctors doe maintaine that in the person of the Pope resides the Rule of faith by a singular gift and priviledge bestowed on St. Peter and his successors And this so rigorously that no Generall Councill no not though the Popes Legates be present and confirm it is of force to oblige as of faith till the personall confirmation of his Holinesse be obtained Others they say esteeme the Councill above the Pope and so hold his approbation unnecessary and that the rule of faith rests in the Councill Others to make all safe joyne both in one and neither admit the Councill without the Pope nor the Pope without the Councill to breed any Obligation of Faith And farther I hear that among these Divines of what opinion soever they be touching the subject in which this Rule or highest Authority resides some thinke no new Doctrine can he breached or proposed as certaine and as an Article of faith by what authority soever unlesse it were esteemed certaine before and alwaies believed as such yet they tell me there are many who maintaine that this highest Authority of the Church where ever it is may define points of Doctrine not certainly knowne hitherto nor ever expresly believed before And how all these opinions can be reconciled among themselves or stand with this that Tradition is our Rule of Faith I confesse I know not saith the Cousen in that Dialogue to which the personate Uncle answereth For the first part of your Objection I see no great matter in the variety of opinions among our learned for they onely seeke out the Decider of points of Doctrine that is by whose mouth we are to know on occasions of dispute which be our Articles of faith whether by the Popes or Councels or both which is not much material to our purpose whatever the truth be Supposing we acknowledge no Articles of Faith but such as have deseended to us by Tradition from Christ and his Apostles Among Protestants are not allowed such ungrounded suppositions as petitio principii begging the thing in question unreasonable to be granted in things of dispute where you acknowledge no certaine Decider whereby to know the rule of your supposed sureness the name of Tradition being equivocall as drawne to several senses in their threefold vehement opinions so distinct about the rule with mutual denunciation of curses one against another in publique as about the Roman Catholique proposall of faith therefore uncertain in it self and uncertaine toward others Particular men being unable to search all Books whether counterfeit or not in so many languages or otherwaies to discern what hath succeeded in a traditionary way of all ages in their own or other Countries The second part of your Objection seemes of greater force said the Uncle to his Ro. ro Cosen because some of the learned acknowledge an authority in the Roman Church not onely to determine either speculative or practicall points of Doctrine new or old so as the whole Church is obliged to accept or not oppose its definition but also that it can so decree even a speculative point of Doctrine hitherto alwaies held uncertaine and never acknowledged as revealed never esteemed an Article of Faith that hereafter the whole Church shall be obliged to believe it is a reveal'd and necessary point of Christian Faith which you must know is but an Opinion nor do the Authors of it