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salvation_n of_o all_o that_o be_v in_o authority_n shall_v be_v pray_v for_o but_o it_o be_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n himself_o that_o the_o preceptive_a will_n of_o god_n shall_v take_v place_n and_o be_v pray_v for_o to_o be_v do_v in_o earth_n as_o it_o be_v in_o heaven_n therefore_o certain_a it_o be_v that_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v that_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o that_o be_v in_o authority_n shall_v be_v pray_v for_o and_o beside_o it_o be_v evident_a from_o the_o motive_n thus_o who_o will_v have_v all_o man_n to_o be_v save_v which_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o he_o enjoin_v and_o require_v prayer_n for_o these_o man_n because_o he_o will_v have_v all_o man_n to_o be_v save_v therefore_o the_o intent_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v that_o prayer_n shall_v be_v make_v for_o all_o man_n for_o their_o salvation_n m._n simpson_n thus_o you_o reason_n you_o say_v you_o will_v prove_v it_o from_o our_o own_o principle_n 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condition_n and_o i_o say_v so_o it_o be_v take_v here_o and_o the_o apostle_n do_v plain_o hint_n it_o forth_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o these_o particular_n for_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o all_o particular_a man_n without_o exception_n but_o man_n of_o such_o a_o sort_n and_o condition_n so_o that_o if_o you_o have_v any_o plain_a argument_n to_o overthrow_v this_o distinction_n we_o shall_v be_v willing_a to_o hear_v it_o otherwise_o it_o be_v but_o petitio_fw-la principii_fw-la a_o beg_v the_o question_n and_o not_o prove_v of_o it_o mr._n good_n no_o sir_n the_o scripture_n be_v plain_a and_o it_o have_v be_v prove_v that_o by_o all_o man_n in_o the_o four_o verse_n must_v of_o necessity_n be_v understand_v all_o without_o exception_n the_o argument_n to_o prove_v it_o be_v because_o the_o exhortation_n in_o the_o 1._o verse_n be_v to_o have_v all_o man_n pray_v for_o and_o to_o prove_v what_o these_o man_n be_v the_o second_o verse_n hold_v forth_o viz._n that_o he_o will_v 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any_o thing_n be_v in_o be_v as_o touch_v the_o godliness_n or_o ungodliness_n of_o man_n but_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o say_v that_o the_o tenor_n and_o import_v of_o this_o decree_n of_o his_o be_v this_o that_o not_o any_o particular_a man_n no_o not_o these_o more_o than_o other_o shall_v be_v ordain_v to_o condemnation_n but_o that_o these_o or_o whosoever_o else_o shall_v fall_v into_o the_o same_o course_n of_o disobedience_n and_o unworthiness_n they_o shall_v be_v all_o condemn_v mr._n ames_n sir_n i_o humble_o desire_v you_o in_o behalf_n of_o the_o people_n that_o whereas_o you_o be_v please_v even_o now_o to_o assert_v the_o eternal_a decree_n of_o god_n concern_v the_o creature_n before_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o world_n be_v lay_v and_o now_o seem_v to_o hint_n a_o difference_n even_o in_o those_o eternal_a decree_n i_o
we_o have_v best_a to_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o those_o who_o be_v spiritual_a whether_o they_o do_v apprehend_v it_o to_o be_v according_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o word_n that_o shower_n of_o rain_n and_o fruitful_a season_n do_v preach_v jesus_n christ_n for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v profess_v that_o i_o never_o learn_v any_o thing_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v a_o saviour_n of_o the_o world_n by_o any_o such_o shower_n mr_n goodw._n i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o if_o man_n be_v negligent_a and_o careless_a that_o these_o will_v compel_v or_o necessitate_v any_o man_n to_o believe_v whether_o they_o will_v or_o no_o if_o you_o understand_v i_o thus_o you_o argue_v not_o to_o my_o sense_n i_o say_v not_o that_o god_n by_o give_v rain_n and_o fruitful_a season_n do_v necessitate_v any_o man_n to_o believe_v no_o nor_o by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o gospel_n nor_o by_o any_o inward_a operation_n of_o his_o spirit_n but_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o say_v and_z have_v i_o time_n and_o strength_n of_o body_n can_v clear_o manifest_v from_o the_o scripture_n and_o by_o evident_a argument_n yea_o and_o from_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o best_a writer_n that_o the_o gentile_n be_v in_o a_o capacity_n of_o come_v to_o such_o a_o knowledge_n of_o god_n which_o be_v sufficient_a to_o save_v they_o i_o go_v no_o further_o mr_n symps_n you_o say_v that_o the_o heathen_a have_v a_o sufficient_a mean_n for_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o gospel_n if_o you_o please_v to_o bring_v your_o argument_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o this_o i_o shall_v be_v ready_a in_o the_o strength_n of_o god_n to_o answer_v they_o and_o to_o maintain_v that_o the_o heathen_a who_o never_o hear_v the_o gospel_n have_v not_o a_o sufficient_a man_n for_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o gospel_n but_o because_o you_o say_v you_o be_v weary_a i_o dare_v not_o be_v so_o uncivil_a to_o press_v you_o any_o further_a at_o this_o time_n mr_n jesse_n speak_v to_o this_o effect_n i_o desire_v because_o there_o be_v many_o weak_a christian_n here_o present_a that_o be_v apt_a to_o be_v trouble_v and_o to_o despair_v within_o themselves_o to_o hear_v such_o difference_n between_o godly_a and_o learned_a man_n they_o will_v be_v ready_a to_o say_v they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o believe_v nor_o what_o religion_n to_o be_v of_o therefore_o i_o shall_v only_o desire_v to_o inform_v they_o this_o one_o thing_n namely_o that_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o two_o opinion_n be_v not_o so_o great_a but_o that_o man_n whether_o they_o believe_v the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o they_o may_v be_v save_v through_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n in_o jesus_n christ._n mr_n sympson_n reply_v thus_o mr_n jesse_n mr_n jesse_n no_o more_o of_o that_o for_o i_o conceive_v that_o they_o that_o hold_v general_a redemption_n and_o freewill_n in_o opposition_n to_o freegrace_n never_o have_v any_o experimental_a knowledge_n of_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n in_o jesus_n christ_n mr_n jesse_n i_o be_o sorry_a to_o hear_v such_o word_n come_v from_o you_o then_o mr_n powel_n pray_v and_o so_o the_o congregation_n be_v dismiss_v here_o end_v the_o second_o dispute_n the_o three_o disputation_n be_v between_o mr_n goodwin_n and_o mr_n sympson_n at_o alhallovv_n the_o great_a london_n februar_n 11._o 1649._o mr_n cranford_n mr_n griffith_n moderator_n the_o clerk_n desire_v silence_n in_o the_o congregation_n and_o entreat_v the_o people_n to_o sit_v down_o mr_n sympson_n and_o mr_n powel_n do_v the_o like_a mr_n sympson_n please_v you_o sir_n we_o will_v desire_v mr_n powel_n to_o pray_v mr_n goodwin_n yes_o very_o well_o sir_n then_o mr_n powel_n pray_v mr_n symps_n if_o you_o please_v sir_n to_o make_v choice_n of_o a_o moderator_n without_o any_o speech_n or_o preface_n we_o will_v address_v ourselves_o to_o the_o disputation_n for_o speech_n will_v but_o beget_v speech_n and_o it_o may_v be_v occasion_n passion_n which_o may_v hinder_v we_o in_o our_o work_n mr_n goodwin_n very_o 〈◊〉_d i_o hope_v i_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o moderate_v my_o myself_o or_o to_o be_v moderate_v by_o yourself_o without_o any_o other_o in_o any_o just_a and_o reasonable_a way_n and_o therefore_o so_o far_o i_o willing_o accept_v the_o motion_n only_o desire_v this_o that_o because_o i_o find_v some_o inconvenience_n in_o stay_v long_o the_o last_o time_n be_v in_o year_n i_o shall_v define_v that_o we_o may_v first_o agree_v upon_o certain_a bound_n and_o limit_n of_o time_n for_o disputation_n mr_n symps_n we_o will_v refer_v it_o to_o what_o time_n you_o shall_v 〈◊〉_d mr._n goodw._n i_o shall_v be_v willing_a to_o stand_v as_o long_o as_o i_o be_o well_o able_a about_o two_o hour_n or_o somewhat_o more_o till_o about_o twelve_o a_o clock_n or_o a_o little_a after_o and_o long_o i_o shall_v not_o be_v well_o able_a to_o stay_v mr_n symps_n who_o will_v you_o please_v then_o to_o pitch_v upon_o for_o moderator_n i_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o you_o because_o i_o make_v choice_n the_o last_o time_n mr_n goodw._n i_o think_v your_o motion_n have_v be_v to_o have_v forbear_v a_o moderator_n however_o i_o have_v no_o exception_n against_o any_o suppose_v that_o they_o keep_v within_o the_o sphere_n and_o compass_n of_o a_o moderator_n which_o be_v only_o to_o see_v and_o order_v the_o law_n of_o the_o dispute_n and_o not_o at_o all_o to_o intermeddle_v with_o the_o disputation_n itself_o mr_n symps_n sir_n her_z be_v mr_n ames_n and_o mr_n cranford_n if_o you_o please_v to_o make_v choice_n of_o one_o of_o they_o mr_n goodw._n i_o be_o very_o willing_a mr_n ames_n shall_v be_v i_o like_v his_o carriage_n the_o last_o time_n very_o well_o only_o i_o desire_v that_o be_v shall_v not_o intermeddle_v so_o much_o with_o the_o question_n in_o dispute_n as_o he_o do_v the_o last_o day_n and_o if_o you_o please_v to_o join_v he_o griffith_n he_o m._n griffith_n with_o he_o that_o be_v the_o last_o time_n i_o shall_v be_v willing_a that_o they_o may_v moderate_v i_o suppose_v he_o be_v not_o far_o from_o you_o mr_n symps_n mr_n ames_n desire_v to_o wave_v it_o therefore_o i_o desire_v mr_n cranford_n may_v be_v the_o man_n mr_n goodw._n it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o i_o only_o i_o expect_v that_o as_o i_o shall_v keep_v myself_o to_o the_o law_n of_o dispute_n or_o howsoever_o shall_v submit_v to_o any_o lawful_a correction_n so_o i_o expect_v that_o the_o moderator_n themselves_o be_v they_o one_o or_o more_o shall_v be_v regular_a in_o observe_v the_o law_n of_o moderator_n and_o not_o make_v any_o digression_n mr_n symps_n if_o you_o think_v they_o go_v beyond_o the_o bound_n of_o moderator_n you_o have_v liberty_n to_o speak_v to_o they_o mr._n goodwin_n very_o well_o mr._n simpson_n this_o be_v your_o question_n whether_o the_o heathen_a who_o want_v the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n have_v not_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o believe_v unto_o salvation_n i_o be_o to_o answer_v your_o argument_n you_o affirm_v and_o i_o deny_v mr._n goodwin_n sir_n it_o appertain_v to_o i_o occupy_v the_o place_n this_o day_n of_o a_o opponent_n to_o state_n the_o question_n in_o my_o own_o sense_n according_a to_o which_o i_o shall_v be_v willing_a to_o own_v it_o and_o to_o plead_v for_o it_o mr._n simpson_n sir_n you_o shall_v have_v do_v it_o have_v we_o not_o agree_v upon_o it_o before_o you_o will_v have_v liberty_n to_o declare_v your_o sense_n plain_o in_o urge_v of_o your_o argument_n mr._n goodwin_n we_o agree_v upon_o the_o term_n but_o not_o the_o state_v of_o the_o question_n i_o conceive_v it_o tend_v to_o a_o further_a benefit_n both_o to_o yourself_o as_o unto_o all_o here_o present_a for_o i_o to_o give_v a_o distinct_a account_n of_o my_o sense_n in_o the_o question_n which_o i_o maintain_v mr._n simpson_n by_o no_o mean_n i_o shall_v not_o grant_v that_o because_o i_o have_v not_o that_o liberty_n myself_o if_o we_o have_v agree_v upon_o it_o to_o have_v alter_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o question_n i_o shall_v have_v do_v it_o i_o shall_v not_o grant_v you_o any_o advantage_n which_o i_o have_v not_o myself_o mr._n goodwin_n i_o beseech_v you_o thus_o do_v you_o think_v that_o i_o shall_v have_v look_v upon_o it_o as_o a_o advantage_n to_o you_o or_o disadvantage_n unto_o i_o to_o have_v give_v you_o free_a liberty_n to_o have_v declare_v the_o sense_n of_o your_o question_n it_o be_v contrary_a to_o all_o reason_n and_o to_o the_o law_n of_o disputation_n that_o any_o man_n shall_v lay_v down_o his_o position_n and_o not_o be_v suffer_v to_o give_v forth_o his_o sense_n of_o the_o question_n in_o dispute_n mr._n simpson_n i_o appeal_v to_o the_o moderator_n if_o you_o please_v let_v they_o determine_v it_o mr._n goodwin_n this_o do_v not_o belong_v nor_o be_v it_o any_o
be_v one_o thing_n to_o pray_v for_o all_o man_n indifinite_o and_o another_o thing_n to_o pray_v for_o all_o man_n universal_o we_o be_v to_o pray_v for_o all_o man_n indifinite_o that_o be_v all_o sort_n of_o man_n not_o define_v these_o and_o these_o particular_a person_n as_o set_v apart_o for_o salvation_n but_o we_o be_v not_o to_o pray_v for_o all_o man_n and_o woman_n universal_o exclude_v none_o m._n grif._n i_o pray_v speak_v to_o that_o proposition_n prove_v that_o all_o be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o without_o exclude_v any_o m._n good_n i_o prove_v that_o we_o be_v to_o pray_v for_o all_o exclude_v none_o if_o so_o be_v that_o all_o be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o who_o god_n have_v not_o exclude_v from_o our_o prayer_n then_o all_o simple_o indifinite_o and_o universal_o be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o but_o all_o who_o god_n have_v not_o exclude_v from_o our_o prayer_n be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o ergo._n mr._n simp._n i_o deny_v the_o major_a proposition_n there_o be_v some_o exclude_v the_o prayer_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o consequent_o they_o be_v exclude_v the_o prayer_n of_o all_o the_o saint_n and_o beside_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o scripture_n 1_o john_n 5._o 16._o for_o such_o a_o man_n i_o do_v not_o say_v you_o shall_v pray_v m._n good_n this_o i_o prove_v that_o your_o answer_n be_v clear_o beside_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o nothing_o to_o purpose_n as_o to_o my_o argument_n m._n simp._n prove_v that_o we_o be_v to_o pray_v for_o all_o man_n and_o woman_n in_o the_o world_n without_o exception_n m._n good_n this_o be_v my_o sense_n in_o that_o proposition_n namely_o that_o all_o man_n as_o they_o be_v man_n and_o before_o they_o put_v themselves_o into_o a_o incapacity_n of_o be_v pray_v for_o so_o all_o man_n i_o say_v be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o &_o you_o bring_v a_o scripture_n to_o prove_v that_o some_o man_n that_o have_v put_v themselves_o out_o of_o a_o capacity_n of_o be_v pray_v for_o be_v not_o to_o be_v pray_v for_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o all_o man_n in_o any_o condition_n after_o any_o degree_n of_o sin_v whatsoever_o as_o for_o example_n the_o sin_n against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n that_o such_o man_n as_o these_o aught_o to_o be_v pray_v for_o but_o i_o say_v that_o all_o man_n consider_v simple_o as_o man_n be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o m._n simp._n these_o be_v word_n which_o you_o bring_v in_o now_o not_o before_o mention_v your_o proposition_n be_v universal_a without_o exception_n that_o all_o man_n be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o and_o i_o give_v a_o clear_a scripture_n where_o we_o be_v command_v not_o to_o pray_v for_o some_o and_o therefore_o your_o argument_n be_v false_a m._n good_n my_o argument_n be_v not_o false_a because_o i_o do_v not_o intend_v nor_o do_v i_o say_v that_o all_o man_n in_o any_o condition_n be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o but_o as_o they_o come_v into_o the_o world_n i_o tell_v you_o in_o what_o sense_n i_o affirm_v it_o and_o the_o reason_n why_o i_o do_v not_o distinguish_v and_o limit_v it_o be_v because_o i_o do_v not_o think_v any_o man_n will_v be_v so_o irrational_a as_o to_o conceive_v that_o i_o do_v include_v those_o that_o sin_n against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n i_o think_v you_o have_v have_v more_o understanding_n m._n simp._n the_o thing_n that_o you_o have_v endeavour_v to_o prove_v be_v that_o the_o apostle_n in_o that_o place_n of_o timothy_n exhort_v that_o prayer_n shall_v be_v make_v for_o all_o man_n in_o general_a but_o we_o prove_v that_o that_o can_v be_v the_o sense_n because_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o another_o apostle_n as_o in_o this_o place_n of_o john_n m._n good_n nay_o i_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v not_o contrary_a to_o that_o scripture_n though_o it_o shall_v be_v take_v in_o such_o a_o sense_n because_o those_o very_a person_n who_o be_v there_o exclude_v by_o reason_n of_o that_o sin_n the_o very_a same_o person_n before_o the_o commit_v thereof_o be_v capable_a of_o prayer_n and_o consequent_o all_o man_n be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o yea_o these_o man_n themselves_o be_v not_o except_v in_o reference_n to_o their_o person_n but_o in_o reference_n to_o their_o sin_n mr._n simp._n the_o thing_n which_o you_o have_v endeavour_v to_o prove_v though_o not_o able_a be_v that_o the_o apostle_n in_o these_o word_n do_v intend_v that_o all_o man_n without_o exception_n be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o but_o by_o what_o we_o bring_v from_o john_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o all_o can_v be_v take_v in_o that_o sense_n m._n good_n that_o in_o john_n be_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n and_o i_o prove_v it_o thus_o the_o commit_v of_o the_o sin_n against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v not_o multiply_v person_n in_o the_o world_n do_v not_o make_v more_o soul_n to_o be_v in_o the_o world_n then_o there_o be_v and_o i_o say_v that_o all_o person_n even_o these_o before_o they_o have_v sin_v that_o sin_n they_o be_v include_v in_o the_o apostle_n all_o and_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o any_o person_n in_o the_o world_n than_o have_v commit_v the_o sin_n against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o if_o you_o can_v yet_o this_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o even_o these_o very_a person_n before_o they_o have_v commit_v that_o sin_n be_v person_n to_o be_v pray_v for_o and_o consequent_o all_o m._n simp._n i_o show_v there_o be_v a_o positive_a command_n that_o we_o shall_v not_o pray_v for_o some_o man_n therefore_o what_o mr._n goodwin_n say_v can_v be_v according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n i_o beseech_v you_o speak_v something_o that_o we_o may_v not_o spend_v all_o our_o time_n upon_o one_o scripture_n but_o if_o you_o please_v let_v we_o proceed_v to_o another_o m._n good_n now_o you_o take_v upon_o you_o the_o place_n of_o a_o moderator_n m._n simp._n sir_n i_o consider_v the_o people_n and_o i_o think_v it_o very_o unprofitable_a for_o the_o hearer_n to_o insist_v so_o long_o upon_o one_o scripture_n m._n good_n i_o conceive_v it_o most_o profitable_a for_o as_o the_o light_n 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