sin My proofe is this in behalfe of your Argument That conscience which is not wholly consenting is not fully perswaded But such is the State or Publike conscience viz. not fully consenting at this time Therefore the State-conscience is not fully perswaded Note Because some are more for it some are lesse for it I prove the State-conscience not fully consenting That conscience which hath not Scripture to secure it cannot be fully consenting or perswaded But such is the Publike conscience at this time concerning this present Government Therefore the Publike or State-conscience cannot be so fully consenting or perswaded Note Because they which cannot call it a Government by Divine Right are not secured concerning it by the Word and then by conscience are not fully consenting nor perswaded Master Ley's Resolution pag 9 10. If we take his reason to stand immediately against obedience and so consequently against commands c. It is more formall but still as feeble Repugnant to Religion and reason against former Protestations and the Covenant for some will alwaies scruple c. Reply Some of this might have been spared Let us have as much reason and as little reviling as may be Your reason is because then neither Protestations nor Covenant of State can be administred for some will alwaies scruple So as here is the force of your reason Because Protestations and Covenants in the State are put upon a people unwilling and malignant therefore Government should First a truth of Government and the establishment of it is but indirectly unsutably and disproportionably proved from Oaths and Covenants Indeed under the Old Testament and in the State of Israel Covenants were more agreeable to the way of that Church they were part of the Worship then and it was a way of obligation and engagement fitted more to the Policie of that Nation They were a People or Nation of themselves singled out from the world and marked by a carnall Ordinance And their Discipline was fitted to the whole Nation by God himselfe and so Covenants c. gathered them up from the world into their Nationall way of Worship c. But now the way of Church and Worship changing and the Laws of such kind of externall Pedagogie ceasing and a more inward and spirituall Law comming in you might have done well â—re you took things thus for granted to cleere the way of Covenants under the Gospell and not to prove one probable thing by another Those of your way are against a little Church Covenant and why not a great one For the imposing of Protestations now c. It is not my work here to discusse nor am I against any way of State-security that may consist with â—ound Prudence and for the spirituall part of them wherein men covenant in the things of God let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind That is the Apostle's rule I am sure what ever any say to the contrary and will stand In civill things I would have any way or designe of assurance that is fairly and justly Politick in spirituell things only such waies of assurance as are Gospell-waies and may sure with the New Testament-beleevers And now you are to prove more then perhaps you thought on that is to cleare a Church-covenant which many of your Way are against for though you condemne it in some Churches not of your Way yet a Nationall Church-covenant you plead for And how can this be both true and false that a great Church-covenant is lawfull and a little one unlawfull A Nationall Church-covenant lawfull and a Particular or Congregationall Church-covenant unlawfull This only by the way To shew you how one may mistake his way in a mist you were proving a Government and now you are engaged to prove Church covenants which you are both for and against And yet after all this of Protestations and Covenants there is no faire proofe of establishing a Government or imposing it in your way and designe from these It is not safe going to the State for a Paterne for the Church If the State in certain seasons of unfaithfulnesse and unsettlement contrive any way of security and assurance necessity is often a law maker in States yet not so in the Church will you from hence argue for a liberty in the Church Will you make necessity your Gospell your Law-giver there Necessity is sometimes a suspender of laws in the Gospell but no law-maker Master Ley's Resolution pag. 10. But I answer I wonder an ingenuous man as M. Saltmarsh is should make such an Objection Reply These are good words and I hope you shall have no worse then you bring Yet we must speak truth Master Ley's Resolution page 10. I answer The Church government is such as in the chiefe parts of it is from the Word Reply You grant then that the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the Word So was Episcopacie and Prelacy in some parts of it There is not any false Worship or Way but it hath some parts of truth in it The great Image had a head of gold c. The Mystery of iniquity sits in the Temple of God c. The Whore of Babilon sits in Skarlet decked with gold and precious stones and Pearles Truth must be all one and the same and homogeneal not in parts The Jews had not the Law but then their own traditions mingled There is one Lord one Faith not two Master Ley's Resolution page 10. Things of lesser moment in it though they are not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant they are of Prudence and agreeable to the best Reformed Churches Reply But Why of lesser moment All things are of moment of spirituals Indeed if they be such as be not the Gospel s they are then as you say of lesser moment and yet of moment too in another sense for Traditions of men make void the Commandements of God Nor are the grounds of Prudence any Scripture-grounds to rule by Prudence hath let in more Will-worship then any thing Prelacy had its Prudence for every New additionall in Worship and Government And if Presbytery take Prudence too let the Reader judge what may follow And what is that Not directly from Scripture yet not repugnant Surely Christ's rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God Not directly from Scripture is repugnant to Scripture Such is the onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth He that is not with me is against me And for the Reformed Churches as a rule that is to set the Sun by the Dyall and not the Dyall by the Sun We must set the Churches by the Word and not Church by Church and the Word by the Church Master Ley's Resolution page 10. 11. Because the practice of the Government belongs not to the peoples part but to the Ministers and Elders Because so far as concerns the peoples compliance they are to be instructed before they yeeld submission Because if any
it Quaere If confident sleightings c. were counted no sufficient answers from the Prelates to the Presbyters why are Presbyters sleightings counted so sufficient arguments for their Dissenting Brethren now and if to raile be to reason and to revile be to refute Mr. Edwards and some of his brethren have as strongly confuted us as the Prelates did formerly them 17. Prelates impropriate Orthodox In impropriating to the same party the praise of Orthodox as if to speak a word or think a thought against them were no lesse Heresie then it was in former times to speak against the Popes Supremacy or the Monks fat belly Quaere 1. It it were so ill taken by the Presbyters then that the Prelates impropriated the name Orthodox how may it be taken now by all the rest who are cast out as Hereticks and Schismaticks while they walke abroad cloathed only in the name of Orthodox Divines 2. If the Popes Supremacy and the Monks fat belly and the Prelates could not beare a word nor a thought against them are not some Divines working for a supremacy and a reuenue against which it may prove as great a crime to speake 18. All not of their opinion are factious Sure the man thinks he hath obtained a Monopoly of Learning and all knowledge is loct up in his bosome and not only Knowledge but Piety and peaceablenesse too for all that are not of his opinion must suffer either as weak or factious if he may be their judge Quaere 1. Whether do not they who hold all other in Schisme and Heresie and a company of Mechanicks who conforme not to them conceive they have the Monopoly of Learning as once the Prelates did and who are these now 2. Whether do not they who look on their Brethren that dissent as Troubâ—ers Factious Schismaticall cenceive all Piety and peaceablenesse to be lockt up in their own bosomes and who are they and who are the weake and factious if they may be judges 19. Prelates pathes causes of Divisions It is no wonder concerning the pathes our Prelates have trod that there are divisions in the Nation the wonder is the Divisions are no more no greater Quaere If the usurpation Tyranny Persecution of the Prelates were reckoned for the supreme division makers in the Kingdom when the Non-conformists were the only Separatists Why do they not find out some other or such like cause now in some other place rather then amongst their dissenting Brethren themselves whom they now only accuse of division and faction but this is the difference of being Parties and Iudges we naturally spie out faults furthest from our selves 20. Where is the Church of England We desire him to tell us what the Church of England is for it doth not please him that we should call the Convocation the Church of England much lesse the Bishops or Archbishops Quaere It was so hard to find out the Church of England in the Prelates dayes surely it is hard to find it out now then it seemes neither Synod Bishops nor Archbishops were the Church Then Quaere where is the Church now not in the Assembly they are but consulting how to build the Church not in the Presbytery for that is a Church unbuilt yet not among the Parisâ—es they are not Scripture-Churches or Congregations as the same Smectymnuus sayes then where is the Church of England 21. The name of Church is the Gorgons-Head But these Episcopall men deale as the Papists that dazle the eyes and astonish the senses of poore people with the glorious name of the Church the Church the holy mother the Church this is the Gorgons-Head that hath inchanted them and held them in bondage to their errours all their speech is of the Church the Church no mention of the Scriptures of God the Father but all of the mother the Church Quaere 1. If the name of Church then the Mother-Church the Church was such a Gorgons-Head by which Prelates as well as Papists inchanted thousands of people to beleeve why is that very thing or device taken up in another forme to inchant with still viz. The Church of England the Orthodox Churches the Reformed Churches 2. If the Church Mother was so much spoken on before and the Scriptures so little why is not the Church of England the Reformed Churches the Orthodox Churches and Divines lesse spoken on and the Scriptures more 22. An ill Custome to say Church of England and Conformity It hath been the custome of late times to cry up the holy mother the Church of England to call for absolute obedience to holy Church full conformity to the orders of holy Church neglecting in meane time God the Father and the holy Scriptures Quaere If it hath been the unwarrantable custome of late times to cry up the Church of England and absolute obedience to the Church and conforâ—â—â—â— why is this custome still kept up conformity obedience and uniformity as much called for still as before why is not the word more spoken on and the Reformeâ— Church lesse why is not free Christian liberty peaceable forbâ—arance of each others differing opinions and practices in unity more heard among us and obedience conformity and uniformity lesse 23. To call Schismaticks and Hereticks the Bishops practice Only there is one practice of our Bishops that is their casting out unconforming Brethren commonly known in their Court language by the name of Schismaticks and Hereticks Quaere 1. If the Bishops did practice the casting out the Non-conforming Brethren wâ—itner ought any such practice to be taken up by the Non-conforming Brethren against Brethren now not Conforming to them 2. If all the Non-conforming Brethren were in their Court-language Hereticks and Schismatick whether ought not such names to be sent packing to Court again rather then taken up by the same Brethren who were so much called so themselves Hereticks and Schismaticks that they have taken it up against others 24. Heresies and Schism harsh words But we had hoped the refusall of the use of a Ceremony should never have been equalized in the punishment either to Heresie or Schisme Quaere If you hoped that the refusall of a Ceremony would not have been punished with Heresie and Scâ—ism from Bishops may not your Brethren hope much more from you that their dissenting from you in things of outward Cognizance and Form as Church Order and Baptism would not be so branded for Heresie and Schisme by you who glory in a more Gospell-way as as you were branded yourselves of late 25. Heavie censures for Non-conformity I am sure above the crime of the Remonstrant Non-conforming Brethren who are unsetled in poynts of a meane difference which their usuall language knowns by no betterâ— terme then Schismaticks and factions yet even such as have fallen under the heaviest censures of Excommunication deprivation suspentioâ— c. Quaere 1. Why was it such a crime to count any Schismaticks and factious under Prelacy and
the first working of it upon the Magistrates hath noâ— a design for strengthening their own interest by the Magistracy of the Kingdoms and how have Kingdoms been embroyled for the serving of this designe and whether is not this guilded with the glorious name of Reformation Consid 8. Let it be considered from the severall waies and Formes of proceeding in which the beleevers of severall opinions have gone in these times to support themselves which stands most on a pure Gospel spirituall bottom supported by its own innate â—ongeniall and proper strength clasping about no stones no pillars of the world or humane strength Consid 9. Let it be considered whether the whole cry of the Divines of the other party as in the late Book is not all to the Magistrate Help us Parliament help us City or we are undon the Heresies and Sects will undo us What said Ezra I was ashamed saith he to require of the King an army and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way because we had said the hand of our God is upon all them that seek him Consid 10. Let it be considered whether they whom he cals Hereticks and Schismaticks make it one of their choycest Principles to desire the Magistrate to help their opinions with their prisons fines pillories but rather that they would let them alone to stand and fall by the power or weaknesse of their Gospell principles and that they may have liberty to pray for them pay to them and possesse the Gospell Each opinionst ted briefly respectively to Toleration Let it be considered to what each pretended Heresie will amount to Independency INdependents beleeve that since the Parishes are so generally corrupted the Churches ought to consist of those of them only that professe more purely as they find Scripture Rule and Practice and as the Presbyterians themselves many of them practice in some Ordinances as that of Baptism and Supper giving them only to the purest Beleevers They also beleeve that they ought not be a few Ministers and Elders of the Churches to bring all the Churches and Congregations under their Power and Dominion but rather under under their advice and consultation Quaere Because then they practice to meet more purely and to rule lesse one over another whether is this enough that they should be fined imprisoned banished The Anabaptists THe Anabaptists so called they hold that Beleevers ought only to be baptized and that Baptisme ought to be so for the manner as may set forth Christs Death Buriall and Resurreâ—â—ion by water as the Greek word and Apostles practice seems to imply and some of the ablest Divines both of England and the great Adversaries the Papists themselves deny not and for children they read of none the Apostles Baptized and they see not any Scripture cleere enough to warrant and they therefore forbeare Quaere Because they will not practice then what is not cleere in command and confessed by all to be but in hidden consequence because they baptize as they find the clearest rule and practice and as none can deny but it was the Apostles generall practice to baptez Beleevers therefore whither is this enough that they should be Fined Imprisoned Banished The Seekers SEekers some of them Question only the way of Church and Ordinances as of Baptism c. because they find that the power was at first given to the Apostles with gifts and from them to others and they dare not take it from Antichrist and the Bishops as the Reformed Kingdomes generally take it nor from the Churches because they find no such power begun from the Churches but only of châ—yâ—e of consent not of power not Churches begun before Apostles or Disciples with gifts Quaere Whether then is this enough because they conceive they dare not take Ordinances but from such and in such a manner as was given at first to Fine Imprison or Banish them A Modell or Short Draught of the whole difference betwixt the Divines for the Presbytery and them of the other way respectively to the Magistrate or State drawn from the late Books and practice of both parties in a Petâ—â—nary way They of the Presbytery to the Magistrates or State VVE humbly Petition ye that Herericks and Schismaticks we beleeving all that differ from us to be so may have your power inflicted upon them whether to Fines Imprisonmâ—n or Banishment and upon this condition ye shall have what we can do or preach c. The Independents to the Magistrates or State VVE humbly Petition that ye will not hazzard nor endanger your civill power of the State to helpe our opinions against our Brethren for we are not Infallable nor Apostolicall we see but in part and that ye will not punish any of our Brethren Presbyterials or others for what they beleeve or differ from us in things of outward order in the Gospell and that we may have leave to pray for ye to pay tribute to ye to fight for ye and to worship the Lord among our selves peaceably as we beleeve and to punish us when we disturbe ye by tumults or trouble your peace in our way of worshipping Some Quaeres for the better understanding of M. Edwards last Book called in Latine Gangrena But in English a Book of Scandals against the Honourable Houses of Parliament the Army the Saints and Churches of Christ that differ from him Quaere 1. VVHether this be not a new way and work of Providence to bring forth some Gospel-light to the world by presenting some truth under the name and notion of errours and heresies which can scarâ—e obtaine from the Presse and Pulpit any other way of appearing abroad and if this â—e not to take the wise in their owne craftinesse and to make M. Cranford the Licenser and M. Edwards the Publisher of some such Truths which the world had else never knowne so publikely but under the forme of heresie and from their two pens but under this disguise 2. Whether that Story which M. Edwards tels of Brasteed in Kent where he sayes a woman preaches which is known to my selfe and all in that place to be a meere untruth be not a way to judge of most of his Stories Letters Relations 3. Whether this late Book called Gangrena where there are so many letters writ to the Reverend M. Edwards to the Worthy M. Edwards to the Good M. Edwards to the Father M. Edwards to the Worthy Reverend good M. Edwards with divers other insinuations of his own worth be not a way of seeking glory and praise from men 4. Whether so many Letters as are in the Book called Gangrena where there is not one name subscribed may not be as well written from M. Edwards as to him and whether the Authours of those Letters whose names are suppressed are not afraid to be questioned for their Relations and therefore have either conceived their names themselves or M. Edwaras for them 5. Whether the great reasonings and conflicts which
and severall Colours in wars whereby men are gathered into severall Orders Armies and bodies of division one against another one saith I am of Paul and I of Apollo and I of Cephas Is Christ divided 3 Passions and railings forborn Let a spirit of meeknesse run in the arterie of Preaching and Printing Let not passions evill speaking railings which inflame and doe not edefie be heard amongst us the angry stir up strife wherefore let all bitternesse wrath malice with evill speaking be put away from you 4 Reviling each other for infirmities forborn Let there be no rifling into each others infirmities to the advantaging or disadvantaging the cause What is any thing of the man to the thing it self What is ones darknesse to the light he professes Any ones errours to a single truth There is rubbish enough every where if swept from every corner 5 The sins of any not to be laid on the Cause Let not the miscarriages the failings the sins the hypocrisie c. of any that professe a Truth with others be charged upon the Truth he or they professe making such sins to be the sins of opinion not of the Person as one of late who hath charged the unfortunate end of one as a fruit of seperation whereas he might so argue against the very Doctrine of Christ because of one Iudas who did the like to himself 6 Liberty for Printing and speaking Let there be liberty of the Presse for Printing to those that are not allowed Pulpits for Preaching let that light come in at the window which cannot come in at the doore that all may speak and write one way that cannot another let the Waters of the Sanctuary have issue and spring up Vallies as well as Mountains 7 Let all subscribe their names to what they Print Let all that Preach or Print affixe their names that we may know from whom the contrary is a kind of unwarrantable modesty at the best if it be truth they write why doe they not own it if untruth why doe they write Some such must either suppresse themselves for shame or fear and they that dare not own what they doe they suspect the Magistrate or themselves 8 Let all be severally accountable Let all that Teach or Print be accountable yet in a severall way if it be matter of immediate disturbance and trouble to the State let them account for it to the Magistrate under whom we are to live a peaceable and quiet life if matter of Doctrine c. let them be accountable to the Beleevers and Brethren who are offended by conference where there may be mutuall conviction and satisfaction 9 Free Debates and open Conferences Let there be free debates and open conferences and communication for all and of all sorts that will concerning difference in spirituals where doores are not shut there will be no breaking them open so where debates are free there is a way of vent and evacuation the stopping of which hath caused more troubles in the States then any thing for where there is much new wine in old bottles the working will be such as the Parable speaks on still allowing the State to secure all tumults or disturbances 10 Let us call Beleevers though of severall opinions if the Name Brethren cannot be justly allowed Let all who pretend to come out of the Antichristian State be acknowledged as those severall Iewes and Christians who came out of Iudaism and Gentilism in the Apostles times some were more and some lesse zealous of the Law yet all Beleevers some made conscience of the Idoll and sacrifice some not 11 No Beleevers to esteeme too highly of themselves for what they attain to Because we are but yet commings out of Babylon and the fall of Babylon not yet the Smoke yet in the Temple the Angels but powring out the Vials the Angell that enlightens the earth with glory not yet flying through the heavens let not any account of themselves to have attained any thing yet as they ought or to know there is not any Church or Beleevers but if one see more of one truth another may see more of another if one see one thing for a truth another sees another thing for a truth and yet all see short of the fulnesse of truth there is so much want darknesse and so little light or glory in each as is rather matter of humiliation and praise then glorying and exception one against another If any man thinke he knoweth any thing he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know 1 Cor. 8. 2. 12 No assuming infallibility over each other Let us not being under no further degree of the revelation of Truth and comming out of Babylon assume any power of infallibility to each other so as to force up all to our light or degree of knowing or practising for there lies as much on one side for compulsion as on another respectively to one another for anothers evidence is as darke to me as mine to his and mine to his as his to me till the Lord enlighten us both for discerning alike So as when there is no power in us to make that appeare to another which appeares to us there can be no reasonable equity for any inforcing or compelling in spirituals The first great rent betwixt the Eastern and Western Kingdomes began when the Bishop of Rome would needs excommunicate the East for not beleeving as they beleeved 13 No Civill Power drawn into advantages Let not those Beleevers who have the advantage of the Magistrate strive to make any unwarrantable use of it one against another because Scripture principles are not so cleare for it and because they know not the revolution of Providence and we are to do as we would be done to That very day which should have been a bloudy day to the Iewes was turned into the contrary Esther and the Jewes had power over them 14 Tendernesse in offending each other in things of an outward nature Let there be much tendernesse in not offending each other but pleasing one another to edification Paul would not offend the Idolatrous weak The weakest and most superstitious makes most conscience of outward things and the strong should know that Idoll or Idoll-Temple is nothing Many a one are more offended at Truth by the carriage of another who sometimes reformes with as much superstition as the other offends It is as much below the glory of the Gospell to thinke one place unholy as holy No place can defile now Salomons Temple is not standing yet let all Truth be brought forth peaceably Truth and Peace can offend nothing but that which may be justly offended which is the corruption not the person 15 Severall Opinions from the Gospels first discovery yet all Beleevers Consider the differences and severall Opinions from the first discovery of the Gospell Some beleeved not Christs sufferings and Resurrection as the Disciples whom yet Christ took to
him and walked with and counted as his Some beleeved not the Holy-Ghost nor Christs Baptism and were zealous of the Law and yet the Disciples counted them as Beleevers Johns Disciples would have followed Iohn only but Iohn sent two of them to Christ at one time and told them againe he must increase but himselfe must decrease Christ in his time would not forbid any that went about in his Name There is none that doth any thing in my Name can lightly speak evill of me When the Spirit was given the Disciples bore one another out of the Church as the Beleevers of Iohns Baptisme and the zealots of the Law and one another in the Church they that did eat them that did not eat and they that regarded a day them that regarded not a day walking together as far as they attained by the same rule 16 No despising for too much learning or too little Let not one despise another for gifts parts learning let the Spirit be heard speak in the meanest let not the Scribe or Disputer of the Law despise the Fishermen nor they despise them because Scribes and Disputers The Spirit is in Paul as well as Peter in both as well as one 17 We may be in one Christ though divers Consider that we may be one in one Christ though we thinke diversly and we may be Friends though not Brethren and let us attaine to Vnion though not to Unity 18 The spirituall Persecution to be forborne Consider there is a twofold Persecution There is a spirituall or that of Beleevers and a mixt Persecution or civilly Ecclesiasticall The spirituall Persecution is that of the Spirit meerly and this kind of Persecution little thought on and studied this is when we cannot be are one anothers severall Opinions or soul-belief in the same spirituall Society or fellowship but they must either be of us or out of us and surely this kinde of Persecution is as unreasonable as any other for what is this but soul-compulsion when another must only beleeve as we beleeve and not wait till the Lord reveale even this This kind of spirituall compulsion will in time breake and dissolve the visible Communion of Saints and Body of Christ exceedingly if taken up or continued and it will be amongst Christians as amongst the Antichristians where they divide and subdivide and some cast themselves into a Monkery from all the rest Ierusalem and Antioch were not of this way to cast out one another upon such grounds but to meet reason and counsell and heare And surely the Churches can ill complaine of a mixt persecution from without if they persecute one another from within the Magistrate may as justly whip them both as they whip one another Such grudgings complainings dissolvings spirituall inforcings gives hint to the Civill power to compell while it beholds them but a little more spiritually coâ—pâ—lling one another Let all Church-rights priviledges boundaries be preserved all Heresie and Schism by the rule rebuked but in all spirituall meeknesse and wisdome and not call Heretick and Schismatick too suddenly since we see but in part THE UNWARRANTABLE WAY OF PEACE Or The Antichristian Designe of Reconciliation 1 To beleeve as the Church or Councels THat all should beleeve as the Church beleeves and this Church is the great Councels of Bishops Cardinals c as if the souls of all were to be saved only in the bundle of theirs as if they could beleeve both enough for themselves and all others 2 To set up one as the Pope for infallibilitie Because there may be difference amongst many and all may not agree therefore there shall be one say they with the Vrim and Thummim one infallibly decreeing and interpreting and unerring to whom the Spirit of Truth is successively derived and his determinations interpretations shall be finall conclusive and this that Vicar of Christ the Pope this one way in the Antichristian State and all Reformed Kingdomes were once under this Peace 3 To allow that all may be saved in their severall wayes Because there be severall Beleevers and severall interpretations and opinions one saying This is the way and another That therefore say some All in all wayes may be saved every one beleeving every thing Now this is one way to make peace but not the way there is but one Lord one Faith one Baptisme 4 To forbid Interpretings and Disputes Because several opinions arise by interpretings and disputings about Scripture therefore all openings of the Word all disputings must be forborne Because the Sun-shine offends some weak sight in the house shut up doores and windowes and make all dark Thus the Papists and Prelats in forbidding Scriptures and Marginall Notes and thus fearing there may be somthing false they will heare nothing that 's true 5 By a compulsive power Some take the Civill power in to make peace reckoning a compulsive Vniformitie for Vnity Peace and Truth This is one way to deale with the body indeed but not with the soul to mind the outward man but not the inward This way of Civilly Ecclesiasticall peace is the Antichristian designe who having got the Kings of the Nations to give their strength and power and Kingdome unto them supplies that from the world which they want from the Word making the spirituall power of Iesus Christ to receive its honour life efficacie power from the power of men This way of peace is such as hath by experience troubled Nations and troubled it self at length too and broken it self against that way which it aimed to breake For whosoever fals upon this stone shall be broken and on whomsoever it shall fall it shall breake them to powder THE OPINIONS OF THESE TIMES With the Exceptions each Opinion may be charged withall being the great Argument for Love Meeknesse and Forbearance one to another or of Peace and Reconciliation till the Lord reveale more Presbyterie So called What it is and what they hold THe Presbyterie is set up by an alleadged Patern of the Eldership and Presbyterie of the Apostles and Elders in the first Churches of the Gospell strengthened by such Scriptures as are in the margin and by allusion to the Jewish Government and to appeals in Nature Their Churches are Parochial or Parishes as they are divided at first by the Romish Prelates and the Statute-Laws of the State Which Parishes and Congregations are made up of such Beleevers as were made Christians first by Baptisme in Infancie and not by the Word And all the Parishes or Congregations are under them as they are a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbyterie And over those Parishes they doe exercise all Church-power and Government ‖ which may be called The power of the Keyes Exceptions 1. THe Apostolicall and Primitive Eldership were not so authoritative over their Congregations as these pretend nor so compulsive or forcing their respective Congregations 2. The Apostolicall Eldership and Presbyterie were more ‖ infallible
of Church-power as is pretended That none ought to communicate in the Ordinances of Christ till first baptized Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism 1. THat those places commonly taken for the Commission for Christs Baptisin as Mat. 28. 18. Mar. 16. and where they that now baptize ground their Commission and practice hath no such thing in it For the Baptism there is a Baptism in the Name of the three Persons of Father Son and Holy Ghost and not the Baptism of Jesus Christ alone which the Apostles only baptized in by water as in Act. 2. 28. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. where it is still said Baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus or of Jesus Christ and a Name of any more Persons is not the least mentioned So as to baptize as they commonly baptize in the Name of Father Son and Holy Ghost for Jesus Christs baptism is contrary to the full practice of all that baptized by water as they do as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19. 5. Act. 8. 16. c. and a confounding Scriptures together viz. severall institutions and practices 2. That baptizing in Matth. 28. 18. cannot properly nor in the word and letter be understood of baptizing by water because there is no more mentioned in the letter or Scripture then meerly the word baptizing and to expound it as they do by a baptizing by water is to put in a consequence and interpretation of their own for Scripture which way of consequences they condemn in all others Presbyterials c. as Will-worship and traditions of men and justly too Now there being no water nor any circumstance in the Text to make out any sense of water as in other places it is an usurpation vpon the Spirit and the Word to put such a sense so infallibly and peremptorily upon the Word which Jesus Christ himself uses in other significations then that of water as in Matth. 20. 22 23. Matth. 3. 11. 1. Cor. 12. 13. 1 Cor. 10. 2. all these places are of Baptism and baptizing yet not one of them of baptizing by water but of Metaphorical and figurative Baptism by his sufferings by the Holy Ghost by the Spirit by the cloud and Sea 3. That Matth. 28. 18. Mar. 16 c. are rather and far more probably to be expounded of the Spirits Baptisme or the Baptism of the Holy Ghost because it seems to be prophesied on by Joel 2. 28. Isai 44. 3. where the Holy Ghosts Baptism is promised to come by Christ and in Matth. 3. 11. Act. 1. 5. Joh. 1. 33. prophesied on to come by John and Christ himself to his Disciples and was fulfilled in Christs Institution and power which he gave in Matth. 28. 18. by baptizing with the Holy Ghost which the Apostles did accordingly practice and by their Ministery was given as in Act. 8. 17 and Mark. 16. 16 17. compared with Matth. 28. 18. doth shew that the Baptism in Matth. 28. 18. is a Baptism of gifts as Mark. 16. 15 16 17. 4. That the Baptism of Jesus Christ by water was only in the Name of Jesus Christ as appears in all the places where such a Baptism was practised as in Act. 2. 38. Act. 10. 48. Act. 19 5. Act. 8. 16. Rom. 6. 3. all which is a Baptism only in the Name of Jesus Christ of the Person of the Son not of the Father Son and Holy Ghost as they now practise and which was never practised as appeares in all the Apostles and Disciples practise 5. That the forme by which they baptize viz. I baptize thee in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost is a forme of mans devising a tradition of man a meer consequence drawn from supposition and probability and not a forme left by Christ to say over them at the dipping them in the water If Christ had said When you baptize them say this over them I baptize in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and unlesse Jesus Christ had left this forme thus made up to their hands they practise a thing made up by themselves and drawn or forced out of Jesus Christs words in Matth. 28. 18. 6. That to preach in the Name of Jesus Christ or to do things in the Name of Jesus Christ is not alwaies in that grosse manner as it is taken viz. naming Jesus Christ or the Father Son and Holy Ghost over them But in the power vertue efficacy Ministery of Jesus Christ or the Persons of the God-head of Father Son and Holy Ghost as in these Scriptures Matth. 28. 20. Mark 13. 6. Joh. 14. 3. Act. 19. 15 16. Joh. 17. 6 11. Act. 9. 14. Revel 11. 18 So here they are at some more losse 7. That though I deny not but water is a signe and one of the witnesses that beare record and in the Word though not yet cleare yet neither can Christs Institution of water and his own Baptism in his own Person be made appeare out of all the New Testamont nor can the Apostles practise by water yet be fetched from such a particular Institution unlesse from Iohn's And if so I am sure they are then at as great a Controversie one with another concerning John's Baptism and Jesus Christ's making them to be two severall Baptisms 8. That every common Disciple cannot so baptize as the first Disciples did because not gifted or qualified as they were And there is as much necessity to make out the Truth in the same power and way of evidence to an Antichristian estate as to a Jewish and Heathenish and with a Word written as well as preached speaking and writing lying both equally open to question and exceptions without a power glorious working in the behalfe and to the reputation of it Nor is there any one Disciple in all the New Testament preaching and baptizing by way of authority but he was able to make out the truth of his calling and dispensation either by miracle or gifts There are but three Exceptions and they have no weight in them 1. Ananias was a Disciple I answer Yea but he restored sight to Saul and had vision 2. Philip did no miracle to the Eunuch I answer We can neither conclude he did nor he did not from the Word for it is silent but he did miracles in Samaria 3. They that were scattered went every where preaching I answer Who they were or how they preached or what power they manifested is not laid down in the Word neither for nor against The Word is silent 9. That there is not such an Officer as Administrator in the whole Word but Apostles Evangelists Prophets Pastors Teachers Elders Rulers Deacons c. and therefore Administrator is an unholsome Word 10. None ought to give Baptism now because there is none can give the gift of the Holy Ghost with it to make up that glorious supplement of
it self mix with Religion where Churches are Nationall And how can I speake properly but to both where both are in interest For my suggestion of a suspition of haste you know words and phrases are not the same to all one may interpret thus another thus I had no thought of Jehu's driving as you imply when I wrote I must lay the supposed crime at your owne doors for it is none of mine nor have I nor any reason to tax that Honourable Senate whose Counsels are grave and serious and deliberate Had I lookt for Jehu I should have lookt to another coast and quarter where they drive more furiously Why deale you not more candidly Why are you not more faithfull in your interpretation to the Originall For that of my taxing the Ministers for desiring power none have reason to speak but the guilty it concernes not the innocent It is not strange for some Ministers to affect Government or rather ruling we have so much of Prelacie yet left and working in the Countrey with us and if not in the City too I refer you to Master Coleman For the word rendred from the Originall metaphorically I quoted only the Text to my remembrance to the Printers hand and how he came by the metaphor I know not but I find fault as well as you However to make the best of it now translations of Scripture are not all Grammaticall as you know nor to the letter as I could wish them with you For Artificiall Colours or Rhetorioall c. You make me guilty of such vernish as I have not laid on to my knowledge nor have much to lay on if I would Truth and Peace which were my subjects are faire enough of themselves without any colour of mine And I desire not to bring forth either but in the evidence and demonstration of the spirit and if there be any thing of their own beauty there call it not artificiall put not suspitions and jealousies into any that such things as they see are not so to make men Sceptâ—call It is as much injury to Truth and Peace to misreport them as to counterfeit them And for your logicall marshalling my reasons I thank you you took more pains with them then I would doe Notionall order I received them in Nor dare I be too logicall and notionall in things divine Systems and formes of art have done our Divinity some harm Such Classes and methods of reason have been found too strait for the more spirituall enlargements of truth Yet I honour your Learning though I thus speake Master Ley's Resolution Page 9 10. His first reason taken from Rules of Faith Rom. 4. 3 13 c. Now he should have planted his reason directly against the imposing a Government rather then obedience to it as thus c. Those that set up a Government which they are not fully perswaded on sin But they that now set up Church-Government with power c. doe set up a Government whereof they are not fully perswaded on Therefore in so doing they sin The major is true but the minor not because of their faithfull learned Counsellors and Scripture-discussings Reply Since you will help me to prove you are welcome You have furnished me with one Argument more You are a fair enemy to lend out your own weapon And now you have made your Argument half for me I shall make the other half my self You say What the imposers of Government cannot doe in Faith is sin This is your half Argument But you take it for granted Our imposers of Government are not such but such as are fully perswaded and can set up the Government in faith and you prove it thus from those of their Counsellors so near them and from their Scripture-discussions First I know not what Counsellors you mean but they are too wise a Senate to be carried by any interest but their owne and I wish them no other Counsellors then Truth and Peace nor doe I know that they are so fully perswaded of any such Government I beleeve some of them are not so fully principled for your way and then they all are not perswaded so of the Government nor have you yet been able to make out the evidence of every truth you presented them from cleare Scriptures saving your Art of deductions and consequences and prudence and if all cannot be perswaded that State-conscience or Publike conscience is not so wholly nor fully perswaded then as you imply a State or Publike conscience is like a Particular conscience which if it doth not wholly consent is doubtfull or weake for it is not in Spirituall things as in Civill Votes of major parts make laws and they stand good from any such forms of Policie but I never yet saw that rule in the Gospell for any such proceedings in spirituall things but that is a Law in Christs Kingdome not that which is voted so but that which is so in the truth of it For else Popery were the best for it hath most voices and counsels So as unlesse you can prove the Parliament to be of one minde in it how can you prove a Parliament so fully perswaded in minde as you imply Let them prove a Truth by most voices that please or can but I wish the businesse of a State-conscience in a thing of this nature were more enquired into then yet it hath been But if the Parliament were fully perswaded of the truth of the Government yet there would be a new question yea and is very learnedly discussed by our worthy Brethren Master Coleman and the Commissioner how they could be perswaded of the imposing and power of setling For my part if there must be an imposing of Government for I would have the State-consciences left to their liberty as well as Particular and yet Truth to have the liberty of accesse unto them I would have the power of the Parliament laid up there we have had too sad experience when it hath been given out from thence and trusted too far Paul referred himselfe thither I stand saies he at Cesar's Judgement-seat rather then to the Councell of the Priests and Elders Christ had more favour from Pilate a Roman Governor then from Caiaphas the Priest One word more How can the Parliament properly be said to be fully perswaded c. unlesse they could freely signe it with a Jus divinum or divine Right Nothing but Scripture and the Word can properly fully perswade Now if they cannot find so much Scripture as to warrant it for Christ's Goverment how can there be a purely Gospell-warrantable a full perswasion or faith where there wants a word of faith to secure it And now I shall forme your Argument you halfe made to my hand thus and return another with usury Your Argument is this Those that set up a Government which they cannot be fully perswaded on cannot but sin But the Parliament cannot be fully perswaded of this Government Therefore if they set it up they cannot but
peace doe meet together nay they are so much one as there is even a truth in peace He that was Truth it self could say My Peace I leave with you But What of the contention spoken on of the Fathers and â—â— c. If there be any quarrelling for Truth either by the Fathers or us but in a Gospel-way we are not excusable neither doth Christ speak of truths drawing swords but of swords drawn against truth which is no Argument for you When Peter would draw a sword in the defence of truth Christ bid him put it up So far is he against your way of defending truth You say By whom should Magistrates be set on and that you cannot speak in such disparaging words By whom be set on By the legislative power by the Parliament The Parliament can set on their respective Committees Iustices c. and is this any disparagement I speak of subordinate Magistrates not of the supream You say There will be worke for the Magistrate enough to punish the contumacious c. That is in English the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing and now who disparages the Magistrate Who set them on work Who makes them their Deputy-punishers Nay Who is the Satan to whom the excommunicate are delivered It is an expression not much besides your principles and who disparages the Magistrate in that Master Ley's Resolution Page 41 42. To that of Truth being otherwise armed from Heaven I answer We thinke it not meet to divide the subservient means from the supreme power nor the exercise of Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall the sword of God and Gideon To that of the imputation of jealousie c. There is a godly jealousie which would set up as many securities as may be against Heresie and impiety The faulty jealousie is theirs that would stiffle the Government but there is a fear which we professe of Gods anger for connivance and communion with hereticall men c. There is in some an aversenesse to Heresie in a trne zeal and love of God There be many other causes of jealousie but I will take but that one of the Lords and Commons p. 43. If Master Saltmarsh â—ad well considered who were engaged c. he would not have undervalued their piety and prudence to compare them with Papists and Prelates I will conclude with a peece of his own politick advice c. Vpon such principles is Church-Government ordained for his Text out of the Revelation Rev. 18. 1. As he began so he ends with mis-application of Scripture Reply You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall That is from the Magistrates This is a signe without further Argument that you do not hold your government for Christs because it cannot be effectuall of it self without help from below and the world and to another power then its own nor is the sword of God and Gideon any faire and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy it joynes only God and the Magistrates You say Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be But then they are warrantable and Gospel-wayes of security That is no godly jealousie which sets up other wayes as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome David dissembling to escape Iacob to get a blessing there is jealousie but no godly jealousie nor warrantable security So to secure any way though of truth by a power not allowed on in the Gospell as no such compulsive power is in your way is not to be jealous with a godly jealousie though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jealous but not in that You say that some fear Gods anger for their communion with Hereticks c. You know all such feare is only warrantable in the Church not in the world It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation we must goe out of the world But What communion is this you meane that will bring Gods anger You have your liberty to withdraw to separate as they from you If it be nationall or civill communion then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest But whom you esteem Hereticks they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so and this is Heretick for Hereticks interpretation against interpretation And since there is only a sufficiency but no infallibility now as before since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first for Revelation why do we thus cry out Hereticks Hereticks the Sword the Sword Let me put one Question here Suppose those you call Hereticks were of equall number to you and both of you equally numbred with Magistrates and both of you equally principled for persecution and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword What clashing of swords would there be What edge against edge What authority against authority What power against power What bloudy doings What sad workings What confusion would there be This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kind If we were equally principled and armed for persecution as you are and acted by your spirit Ah what a Kingdome would here be You say Some have aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeale to God These are but generall notions of Heresie Every thing is not Heresie that is called so And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse all this is granted if that be Heresie indeed But how if it be such a zeal as Paul saith the â—ewes had a zeal but not according to knowledge how if it be such a zeal to God as crucified the Sonne of God and such a zeal there hath been we know The Iews did much in zeal to Truth even against Truth But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance c. I am afraid these are such proofs as you intend most in your Presbytery to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority But I have not to doe here with answering Ordinances of Parliament I contend not but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs but yours I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties but Iudges in out difference I appeal to the Parliament as to Caesar nor in it a faire proofe of Truth to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard You say You wonder considering who was ingaged I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates I did consider who was ingaged a Parliament c. and had I not highly valued
them I had not ventured so far in my Quaere I considered the sad and farall troubles which attended the Magistrates ingagements with the Ministers the bloud which hath been powred out by Nationall compulsion of tender conscâ—eâ—ces and like a spirituall Watchman I could not but blow my Trumpet and give warning And for my comparison or Papists and Prelates I appeal to the world if there be any reproach whether it be not in the Interpreter rather then in the Author But I know no such thing by my Paper And if it be lawfull to draw in consequent conclusions and then father them I could prove you to speake Treason Blasphemy Idolatry Atheisme Heresie nay Independencie which some of your Way thinke worse Aâ—abaptisme Separation which would seeme to be as hatefull to you But I judge you not in any such sort nor had I spoken so far now but in a just Vindication You say You will conclude with my Politicks and upon such Principles as mine Church-government is ordained I have told you my Politicks were written by my dimmer light And if your Government be built upon no better Principles then mine I cannot but be out of conceit with that Government being so far out of conceit with mine own Principles and it makes me think the worse of it because my former Principles fit it so well Those Principles you speak on are partly of Câ—vill power and the Sword and the Dominion or Scepter in the Gospell is more Spirituall You say of my Text in the Revelation Revel 18 1. that as I began so I end with misapplication of Scripture Misapplication is a word sooner writ then proved and my reasons were rather crowded then ordered in my Paper The Scripture was this For the Angell that came down from Heaven hath great power and the earth is lightned with his glory Which Scripture there applyed doth hint to any that will not rather cavill then interpret that my only reason for delay of Government was in this An Angell was yet to come with power and glory or the Gospell would fill the earth with more light â—o as we should not shut up our selves too soon in the dark And now Reader judge whether it be my mis-application or his misinterpretation Spirituall Principles drawn forth Gospell-Truth is one and the same THat which is only in some parts of it warrantable by the Word is not purely nor in a Scripture-way warrantable For there is not any Will-worship but it hath something from the Patern of the true The Samaritan-worship was coppied after the Jewish and the Jewish when Christ came had Priests and Temple and Sacrifices and was copied by the Law But then there was Traditions and Commandements of men That is pure Gentilism which hath no Image of Gospell nor lâ—gall Truth Antichrist sits in the very Temple of God though rather upon it False Christs call themselves Christs as well as the true The great Image had a head of Gold though feet of Iron and Clay Every Heresie hath a Scripture Word in it But Truth must be all one and the same and Homogeneall not in parts so but all so There is but one Lord one Faith c. Prudence and Consequences are the great Engines of Will-worship THings of Prudence meerly are not to be admitted into the Spirituallway and Gospell-designe Prelacy had its Prudence for every new additionall in Worship and Government And once let Prudence open a doore and then will more of man crowd in then the 〈…〉 of God can keep out Nor is that to be admitted which is so received a Maxime Though not directly yet not repugnant to the Word Christs rule is not such he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God Not direct from Scripture is indirect and repugnant though not to the very letter of such words yet to the form and Analogie of truth to the generall Scripture-Law viz. the will of God that nothing shall be added or diminished ye are only my friends saith Christ if ye do what I command you and the Lord will raise you up a Prophet him shall yee heare For if any thing of Prudence is to be let in then something of Tradition for Prudence can make nothing higher noâ— purer nor better mâ—n can but give his own Image to the things â—e makes himself though he make them up of divine materials from Scriptures yet the form none but the Lord himself can give and the form is that which stamps Christs Image upon every Truth Every thing in the Word hath a form that is it is â—uch a thing of truth and not another Nothing but Gods power and will can make a thing Truth his power creates it and his will creates it such a Truth Nothing is agreeable to the Will of Christ but the very Will of Christ The Will of Christ is the only Legislative power in the Gospell Nothing is agreeable to his Will but what he wils every thing is repugnant to his will but what he wils so as this will is the supreme general law indeed the very form or essence of Scripture the Word of God And whatsoever is devised by Prudence though upon Scripture-materials yet being not the work of this will nor having the Stamp or Image upon it is none of Christs but as repugnant as any other Tradition or invention of men And here let us look to that new though old design against Truth the most subtill undiscernable and divinest kind of Will-worship in the world that which some call Scripture-consequence an unwholsome word as it hath been used for under colour of consequence what Conclusions may be promoted What may not Reason draw from Scripture and what may it not fashion like a Truth But consider in Parliament Laws or Ordinances or Commissions is it lawfull to take them and from every part of them to draw out results of our own and when there is but one Law make many subordinate Laws of our own and frame Laws out of Laws and Ordinances out of Ordinances and Commissions out of Commissions No sure But we must keep to that one generall entire litterall Law and Will of the Parliament Is it thus in Laws humane and not much more in Ordinances divine Yea there is the same onenesse entirenesse indivisibility and essentiality of the Truth Nor do I here disapprove any Scripture-consequence if meerly consequent and not formed up into a Law by meere reason for then mâ—n makes Laws from the Laws of God and this is not the least engine that Antichrist hath wrought with The people are Brethren and Saints in Christs Church but in Antichrists Parishioners and Servants VVHat kind of Government is marked out in Scriptures for sitting on the waters or people Christ governs by the people ministerially not over the people authoritatively only and the people being once in his Church-way lose their old capacity for a new and are raised up from people to Brethren to Churches It is a saying
through Presbytery and Independency will soone gird themselves to battle in those Notions and we shall never want enough of Presbytery and Independency till they undo us after our own fashion and if they cannot kill us as Cavaliers and Malignants in this new way they may kill us as Presbyters and Independents And surely they will have so much Iesuitisme as never to let us starve for Hereticks and Schismaticks the Iesuits run commonly over to the Lutherans and raile there against Calvinists and so they never want matter for division in Germany it is the great design of Conclaves and Popish Councels to practice upon States in their own religions and customes and to turne us back into Popery by being Protestants amongst us and to raise up new troubles by changing the old and by transfiguring their enmity Satan himselfe can be an Angell of light when he cannot passe as a power of darknesse and where works he thus but in the children of disobedience And Brethren let us not let our enemies in at back-doâ—res of Presbytery and Independency let us not undo our selves when God would save us let us see that these workings are but the old designe in a new Forme The last reason is People are not wholly undeceived in their present Ministers And to that end consider 1. That these Ministers who tell them thus and preach thus are neither as Aaron was nor as the Prophets were nor as the Apostles were nor have such an infallible gift nor spirit of discerning so as their words and Sermons are no more to be beleeved then the words of the Scripture proves and people are to trie all and to trie spirits and so trust and now friends not beleeve Sermons too suddenly because their Sermons are not very Scripture but interpretation to their light and light may be darkned with carnall reason and interest 2. That these Ministers who preach so for Presbytery through bloud and persecution now did but a few yeers since preach as confidently for the Service-book for Bishops or against the Presbytery our Brethren of Scotland 3. That these Ministers that preach nothing but Presbitery Government and Divine Right yet never tryed it in their lives nor lived in the experience of it but have it by report and by Idaea or modell or Landship from other Countreys and some specious Scriptures 4. That these Ministers who would presse the Covenant against Popery and Episcopacy root and branch yet will be content though Bishops be unlawfull to say the Bishops hands which ordained them are not and that Bishops could make them Ministers of Christ though they were Antichrist themselves and that Episcopacy could make a lawfull Ministery 5. That these Ministers who preached against Deanes and Archdeacons and Prelates as unlawfull can be content very well with their maintenance their tythes are not popish nor the profits nor revenues are not against Covenant people look a little into these men that hold there is no popery in any thing that makes them rich or maintaines them is this the doctrine of the crosse and selfe-deniall 6. That these Ministers who preached against Pluralities yet now a mastership of a Colledge and a great Living or two of some hundreds a yeer with Chaplainships as they commonly have and two or three great Lectures in conjunction with a great Living is not Plurality nor must be accounted so Nay for a Presbyter to have two livings is no plurality now but for a Prelate to have them is undoubtedly so By the same tenure the Prelates formerly lived at Court and in Lords houses and held Livings as they in the Assembly now by their attendance there 7. That these Ministers who pretend to so much light and certainty of truth yet after two yeers reasoning and proofe have not been able to prove their way of Government from Scripture so as there are so many excellent Quaeries propounded from the Honourable Parliament which lye unanswered unlesse the Ministers intend to resolve the Parliament some other way by making the tumults more and their answers lesse for their books and Sermons speak no lesse Was ever Reformation but where the Red Dragon is in the Pulpit preached for in so much bloud and I pray friends are all things so true as they tell you our greatest and wisest Counsell can see no such thing in it yet and since you expect your Government from the Parliament I pray go not before them in your judgements but stay and examine as they do 8. That the mystery of the Popish Ministery hath ever been to lead the people and stir up the people either by merit or martyrdome or ministery and therefore the poore soules of England had given away all their Lands once to Monks and Friers and would all fight for the Holy Land and the Kings and Princes their power to do with as they pleased and all was as the Priest said for Religion too all as the Holy Church said and now merit martyrdome and ministery carry all before them yet in some measure though not in so much England hath seen so much as to take much of their lands again and Tythes again from the Ministery and the Parliaments have seen so much as a little to debate Religion with the Synods and this Parliament hath seen more by how much they have reasoned disputed quaeried with their Ministers When did ever England see so much liberty before when durst Parliaments talke with their Ministers till now And friends let not the old Popish things of merit martyrdome and ministery carry us away as they did I remember an excellent saying reported of Generall Lesley to our Nobles and Gâ—ntry when they were ready to fight for Bishops to this purpose Shall we lose our bloud for so many fat Swingers And I pray are not these the Sons of the Swingers according to ordination ordained and called by Bishops Is our bloud too good for Bishops and not for Presbyters as some think 9. That these Ministers who seem to close with those whom they so lately called and preached against as Malignants and Cavaliers yet cannot love them or use them otherwise then in designe to help up with the Government and then leave them und persecute them under the same Notion with us as Hereticks using them now as the Israelites did the Gibeonites as hewers of wood and drawers of water and then what will become of these poore soules who having helped up the Presbyters into the roome of the Bishops to be sure they shall neither have Common-prayer-book nor Surplice nor Bishops nor Sacraments for the Directory shall keep out the Common-Prayer-book and Presbyters shall keepe out Bishops and Elders shall keep out all Communicants of such and such sins and Vniformity will keep out Conformity And if ye hope for better by the bustle and differences and sideings Issues and successe are in Gods hand not in ours Ye may know when ye begin but not when ye end and they will be first in