Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	believe_v	church_n	interpretation_n	3,657	5	10.5181	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85312	Of schism. Parochial congregations in England, and ordination by imposition of hands. Wherein Dr. Owen's discovery of the true nature of schism is briefly and friendly examined, together with Mr. Noyes of New England his arguments against imposition of hands in ordination. / By Giles Firmin, sometime of new England, now pastor of the Church at Shalford in Essex.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1658 (1658)	Wing F958; Thomason E1819_1; ESTC R209761	90,499	170

confess_v 4._o but_o put_v case_n it_o be_v so_o yet_o this_o hinder_v not_o his_o associate_a with_o our_o brethren_n who_o desire_v he_o but_o to_o associate_v where_o they_o do_v separate_v the_o precious_a from_o the_o vile_a by_o discipline_n since_o then_o this_o separation_n be_v doctrinal_a as_o all_o divine_n upon_o the_o text_n acknowledge_v then_o whether_o the_o prebyterial_a brethren_n very_o many_o of_o they_o at_o least_o do_v not_o separate_v as_o well_o as_o himself_o i_o desire_v my_o brother_n to_o consider_v for_o the_o last_o word_n which_o he_o also_o use_v let_v they_o return_v to_o thou_o but_o return_v not_o thou_o unto_o they_o do_v my_o brother_n indeed_o parallel_v our_o associated_n brethren_n with_o those_o who_o be_v mean_v by_o they_o let_v the_o presbyterial_a brethren_n return_v to_o the_o congregational_a not_o they_o to_o they_o i_o shall_v not_o have_v dare_v to_o have_v make_v such_o a_o parallel_n i_o shall_v only_o put_v this_o brother_n in_o mind_n what_o he_o then_o say_v against_o those_o who_o dare_v depart_v from_o stand_a commandment_n and_o desire_v he_o to_o consider_v whether_o he_o never_o read_v of_o a_o stand_v to_o use_v his_o own_o word_n commandment_n repeat_v again_o and_o again_o that_o we_o shall_v follow_v the_o thing_n which_o make_v for_o peace_n and_o whether_o he_o with_o our_o brethren_n who_o stand_v off_o have_v answer_v that_o commandment_n sober_a congregational_a man_n shall_v judge_v let_v i_o leave_v with_o our_o brethren_n a_o few_o line_n which_o i_o receive_v a_o few_o weak_n since_o from_o that_o learned_a and_o godly_a divine_a mr._n norton_n teacher_n of_o the_o church_n in_o boston_n in_o n._n england_n in_o a_o letter_n to_o i_o the_o association_n you_o mention_v among_o the_o minister_n we_o much_o rejoice_v in_o i_o never_o think_v it_o better_o than_o human_a but_o oftentimes_o worse_o that_o the_o presbyterian_a and_o congregational_a man_n can_v close_v together_o in_o brotherly_a communion_n the_o power_n of_o godliness_n interest_n we_o in_o the_o affection_n of_o the_o godly_a above_o the_o notion_n of_o either_o of_o they_o consider_v apart_o therefrom_o i_o believe_v the_o congregational_a way_n to_o be_v the_o truth_n yet_o i_o think_v better_o of_o many_o presbyterian_o then_o of_o many_o congregational_a man_n it_o be_v no_o wonder_n if_o independent_o be_v unruly_a for_o i_o distinguish_v between_o independent_o and_o congregational_a man_n or_o rather_o such_o call_v themselves_o as_o they_o please_v that_o will_n not_o acknowledge_v the_o rule_n of_o the_o presbytery_n and_o the_o order_n of_o council_n thus_o far_o this_o reverend_a and_o great_a divine_a i_o be_o sure_a our_o association_n reach_v no_o high_a than_o a_o council_n as_o for_o our_o brethren_n who_o will_v not_o associate_v till_o they_o see_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n set_v his_o stamp_n of_o authority_n upon_o this_o way_n of_o association_n whatever_o the_o late_a instrument_n make_v by_o the_o parliament_n allow_v we_o though_o they_o see_v anabaptist_n and_o congregational_a church_n and_o other_o associate_v county_n to_o exercise_v discipline_n without_o any_o scruple_n though_o they_o will_v quarrel_v with_o a_o erastian_n magistrate_n that_o shall_v deny_v any_o such_o power_n to_o belong_v to_o church_n yea_o though_o some_o of_o these_o can_v suspend_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n who_o they_o please_v we_o must_v leave_v these_o to_o their_o own_o wisdom_n and_o desire_v they_o to_o convince_v the_o magistrate_n so_o that_o he_o may_v be_v able_a to_o see_v clear_o that_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v either_o episcopal_a classical_a or_o congregational_a and_o so_o establish_v one_o or_o if_o the_o magistrate_n be_v not_o so_o clear_a in_o either_o but_o yet_o willing_a to_o favour_v any_o of_o these_o the_o person_n be_v godly_a and_o peaceable_a as_o he_o do_v then_o let_v these_o brethren_n consider_v whether_o the_o want_n of_o church-discipline_n be_v a_o fault_n to_o be_v charge_v most_o upon_o the_o magistrate_n or_o upon_o themselves_o to_o return_v to_o you_o then_o father_n and_o brethren_n in_o a_o few_o word_n hitherto_o god_n have_v bring_v we_o the_o work_n we_o have_v engage_v in_o be_v to_o most_o if_o not_o all_o of_o we_o new_o and_o such_o a_o work_n as_o many_o of_o those_o who_o have_v be_v exercise_v in_o it_o have_v so_o often_o miscarry_v in_o that_o the_o ordinance_n of_o discipline_n have_v suffer_v much_o dishonour_n and_o that_o which_o add_v to_o the_o difficulty_n we_o set_v to_o it_o in_o such_o time_n wherein_o the_o ministry_n be_v so_o much_o revile_v by_o sectary_n and_o as_o to_o this_o work_n much_o contemn_v by_o the_o gentry_n and_o our_o episcopal_a divine_n one_o of_o which_o and_o who_o i_o honour_v say_v to_o i_o that_o we_o be_v no_o more_o fit_a to_o manage_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n then_o david_n saul_n be_v armour_n we_o boast_v not_o of_o our_o fitness_n but_o for_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n by_o such_o bishop_n though_o i_o high_o reverence_v some_o of_o they_o they_o have_v no_o such_o cause_n to_o boast_v as_o witness_v the_o church_n they_o have_v leave_v we_o miserable_o overgrow_v with_o ignorance_n and_o profanness_n have_v we_o so_o many_o hundred_o or_o thousand_o of_o pound_n per_fw-la annum_fw-la such_o honour_n and_o regal_a power_n to_o stick_v to_o we_o as_o have_v they_o i_o hope_v the_o church_n may_v be_v govern_v as_o well_o as_o they_o be_v before_o and_o be_v purge_v a_o little_a from_o that_o ignorance_n and_o profaneness_n which_o now_o we_o find_v they_o in_o but_o we_o must_v go_v to_o our_o work_n without_o saul_n armour_n i_o be_o sensible_a how_o much_o wisdom_n and_o prudence_n this_o work_n call_v for_o all_o my_o comfort_n be_v christ_n of_o god_n be_v make_v to_o we_o wisdom_n etc._n etc._n 1_o cor._n 1._o i_o take_v care_n for_o nothing_o but_o for_o faith_n humility_n and_o prayer_n to_o fetch_v this_o wisdom_n from_o our_o king_n and_o head_n and_o leave_v the_o success_n to_o he_o who_o do_v institute_v this_o ordinance_n your_o fellow_n labourer_n in_o the_o work_n of_o the_o gospel_n giles_n firmin_n shalford_n 2._o of_o the_o 2._o month_n 1658._o a_o advertisement_n of_o two_o book_n late_o publish_v by_o this_o author_n mr._n giles_n firmin_n viz._n 1._o stablish_v against_o shake_v be_v a_o discovery_n of_o the_o quaker_n 2._o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n vindicate_v and_o the_o extent_n of_o it_o determine_v by_o mr._n stephen_n martial_n publish_v by_o his_o own_o copy_n since_o his_o death_n with_o note_n upon_o it_o chap._n i._n a_o brief_a and_o friendly_a examination_n of_o dr._n owen_n be_v discovery_n of_o the_o nature_n of_o schism_n several_a definition_n of_o schism_n both_o ancient_a and_o modern_a the_o doctor_n recite_v none_o of_o which_o give_v he_o content_a austin_n he_o say_v suit_v his_o definition_n direct_o to_o the_o cause_n he_o have_v in_o hand_n against_o the_o donatist_n for_o the_o rest_n they_o do_v not_o satisfy_v he_o then_o offer_v his_o definition_n be_v the_o definition_n which_o agree_v with_o scripture_n to_o which_o he_o appeal_v and_o esteem_v this_o appeal_n to_o be_v necessary_a and_o reasonable_a i_o be_o of_o the_o doctor_n be_v mind_n and_o wish_v we_o have_v keep_v there_o all_o this_o time_n for_o while_o some_o man_n make_v providence_n their_o bible_n other_o make_v antiquity_n they_o they_o have_v make_v we_o by_o woeful_a experience_n know_v the_o evil_a effect_n of_o walk_v by_o such_o canon_n providence_n &_o antiquity_n be_v excellent_a thing_n to_o confirm_v we_o when_o they_o have_v clear_a scripture_n stand_v before_o they_o as_o figure_n before_o cipher_n and_o if_o man_n will_v reduce_v their_o action_n and_o dispute_n to_o this_o head_n by_o which_o one_o day_n we_o shall_v be_v judge_v rom._n 2._o and_o not_o by_o providence_n or_o antiquity_n as_o we_o may_v have_v spare_v many_o of_o our_o trouble_n so_o we_o may_v soon_o come_v to_o the_o close_n up_o of_o our_o breach_n which_o i_o perceive_v be_v one_o part_n of_o the_o doctor_n aim_n but_o i_o can_v hardly_o believe_v will_n ever_o effect_v the_o cure_n for_o suppose_v he_o can_v convince_v man_n that_o this_o separation_n from_o church_n be_v not_o schism_n in_o the_o precise_a notion_n as_o he_o often_o mention_n of_o scripture_n yet_o if_o they_o apprehend_v it_o to_o be_v something_o else_o as_o bad_a and_o it_o may_v be_v worse_o his_o book_n will_v prove_v ineffectual_a to_o the_o heal_n of_o our_o wound_n thus_o than_o he_o define_v schisin_n p._n 51_o 52._o it_o be_v a_o causeless_a difference_n or_o division_n among_o the_o member_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n that_o meet_v together_o or_o aught_o so_o to_o do_v for_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o

answer_n to_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o verse_n and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d relate_v to_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o v._o 22._o this_o be_v the_o last_o act_n of_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n when_o they_o have_v confirm_v and_o exhort_v the_o disciple_n in_o v._o 22._o ordain_v they_o elder_n in_o v._o 23._o they_o commend_v they_o all_o pastor_n and_o people_n to_o god_n i_o see_v calvin_n piscator_fw-la cor._n a_o lap._n agree_v with_o i_o make_v no_o question_n of_o this_o interpretation_n for_o they_o pass_v it_o over_o as_o grant_v and_o musculus_fw-la speak_v my_o mind_n clear_o ergo_fw-la jejunantes_fw-la &_o orantes_fw-la quod_fw-la in_o coetu_fw-la fidelium_fw-la fieri_fw-la solebat_fw-la ordinarunt_fw-la presbyteros_fw-la a_o fidelibus_fw-la electos_fw-la observe_v he_o put_v a_o difference_n between_o election_n and_o ordination_n in_o this_o verse_n &_o post_fw-la eam_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la commendaverunt_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la domino_fw-la &_o discesserunt_fw-la 3._o that_o text_n in_o act_n 20.32_o confute_v this_o notion_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d follow_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o this_o text_n to_o the_o 2._o aor_n voc_fw-la med_a and_o we_o shall_v find_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o act_n 14.23_o now_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o ordain_v these_o he_o call_v they_o elder_n and_o bishop_n before_o and_o so_o they_o be_v but_o now_o take_v his_o leave_n of_o they_o he_o commend_v they_o to_o god_n and_o so_o he_o do_v in_o act_n 14._o depart_v from_o the_o church_n he_o commend_v they_o to_o god_n in_o who_o they_o have_v believe_v 4._o i_o can_v yet_o be_v convince_v but_o that_o ordination_n be_v a_o act_n of_o authoritative_a power_n but_o commend_v of_o a_o person_n to_o god_n in_o prayer_n be_v no_o act_n of_o such_o power_n 5._o the_o scripture_n give_v we_o another_o definition_n of_o ordination_n as_o i_o shall_v show_v afterward_o ergo_fw-la this_o be_v not_o the_o true_a definition_n thus_o than_o i_o have_v make_v it_o clear_a that_o gift_n and_o popular_a election_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o constitute_v a_o minister_n if_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v judge_n we_o may_v make_v use_n of_o other_o civil_a officer_n to_o illustrate_v it_o more_o pol._n keck_n pol._n the_o athenian_a senator_n be_v swear_v though_o the_o people_n do_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d so_o be_v our_o magistrate_n take_v a_o constable_n though_o the_o town_n have_v choose_v he_o to_o that_o office_n yet_o if_o he_o shall_v act_v as_o a_o constable_n before_o he_o be_v swear_v he_o be_v a_o trespassor_n and_o a_o man_n may_v have_v a_o action_n against_o he_o for_o his_o so_o do_v there_o be_v much_o reason_n why_o the_o popular_a election_n shall_v give_v the_o essence_n here_o but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o reason_n why_o it_o shall_v to_o a_o minister_n yet_o here_o we_o find_v in_o civil_a officer_n more_o than_o election_n before_o they_o can_v act_v i_o pray_v let_v we_o have_v order_n in_o the_o church_n as_o well_o this_o be_v dispatch_v now_o it_o will_v necessary_o follow_v that_o ordination_n be_v necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o minister_n though_o i_o shall_v say_v no_o more_o it_o be_v but_o little_o i_o intend_v to_o say_v or_o need_v to_o say_v for_o the_o reason_n i_o give_v before_o arg._n 1._o first_o conformity_n to_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n house_n in_o thing_n pertain_v to_o his_o house_n be_v necessary_a ordination_n of_o minister_n steward_n pertain_v to_o the_o house_n be_v conformity_n to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n ergo_fw-la ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v necessary_a the_o major_a if_o any_o deny_v they_o must_v take_v away_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n leave_v man_n to_o their_o own_o fantasy_n which_o no_o holy_a man_n ever_o dare_v say_v so_o that_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o will_v stand_v the_o minor_a if_o any_o deny_v it_o must_v be_v upon_o one_o of_o these_o two_o ground_n 1._o either_o deny_v that_o we_o have_v any_o positive_a rule_n because_o we_o have_v none_o but_o example_n which_o show_v how_o minister_n come_v in_o to_o office_n but_o if_o those_o example_n of_o apostle_n commission_v by_o christ_n to_o order_v his_o house_n have_v such_o a_o promise_n of_o his_o presence_n with_o they_o be_v not_o rule_n to_o we_o than_o we_o have_v no_o rule_n at_o all_o leave_v for_o officer_n come_v into_o his_o house_n which_o be_v strange_a defect_n of_o wisdom_n to_o impute_v to_o christ_n that_o he_o shall_v have_v a_o house_n and_o no_o order_n in_o it_o and_o contrary_a to_o the_o old_a church_n which_o have_v rule_n exact_o for_o their_o officer_n come_v in_o nor_o must_v popular_a election_n be_v ever_o more_o plead_v for_o or_o 2._o they_o must_v deny_v it_o because_o officer_n be_v make_v without_o any_o ordination_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n i_o desire_v to_o see_v prove_v from_o scripture_n if_o we_o observe_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n after_o they_o have_v receive_v the_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n and_o be_v now_o fit_v and_o send_v forth_o to_o act_v with_o that_o spirit_n guide_v they_o we_o find_v that_o thus_o they_o do_v set_v deacon_n in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n act_v 6.6_o obj._n but_o it_o be_v object_v that_o here_o be_v no_o ordination_n to_o any_o office_n at_o all_o there_o be_v person_n before_o who_o do_v this_o work_n that_o we_o suppose_v the_o deacon_n shall_v these_o man_n be_v appoint_v only_o for_o that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d necessity_n in_o v._o 3._o that_o be_v to_o end_v that_o difference_n which_o arise_v in_o v._o 1._o 1._o a._n it_o be_v true_a there_o be_v some_o who_o do_v distribute_v the_o good_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o poor_a etc._n etc._n who_o those_o be_v i_o think_v chap._n 4._o v._o ult_n will_v tell_v we_o they_o lay_v the_o money_n at_o the_o apostle_n foot_n whence_o it_o be_v clear_a to_o i_o that_o the_o apostle_n have_v this_o burden_n upon_o they_o also_o compare_v the_o verse_n with_o chap._n 6.2_o and_o this_o they_o find_v a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o they_o in_o their_o preach_a work_n so_o that_o both_o they_o can_v not_o tend_v whence_o by_o the_o spirit_n they_o be_v guide_v to_o institute_n the_o deacon_n upon_o search_n i_o find_v other_o man_n of_o my_o mind_n 3.9_o mind_n inst_z l._n 4._o c._n 3.9_o calvin_n 217._o calvin_n exam._n con._n trid._n p._n 217._o chemnitius_n 766._o chemnitius_n in_o 4._o praec_fw-la p._n 766._o zanch._n with_o more_o who_o i_o can_v mention_v 2._o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o say_v v._o 2._o to_o leave_v the_o word_n of_o god_n &_o decide_v difference_n but_o serve_v table_n which_o they_o see_v hinder_v they_o and_o one_o they_o see_v they_o must_v neglect_v or_o perform_v not_o well_o as_o we_o see_v complaint_n make_v whence_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o v._o 3._o must_v answer_v to_o that_o which_o the_o apostle_n can_v not_o attend_v to_o in_o v._o 2._o which_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 3._o as_o the_o church-member_n consist_v of_o body_n as_o well_o as_o soul_n which_o body_n must_v be_v provide_v for_o by_o other_o if_o they_o have_v not_o of_o their_o own_o to_o uphold_v they_o and_o since_o god_n have_v give_v in_o charge_n that_o collection_n shall_v be_v make_v for_o the_o poor_a since_o also_o there_o be_v divers_a thing_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o thing_n about_o the_o church_n which_o must_v have_v money_n to_o buy_v they_o and_o to_o answer_v for_o they_o hence_o it_o stand_v with_o right_a reason_n that_o a_o officer_n be_v choose_v and_o authorize_v to_o be_v the_o church-treasurer_n to_o take_v in_o these_o collection_n and_o money_n and_o by_o these_o to_o serve_v the_o poor_n table_n the_o lord_n table_n i_o conceive_v they_o have_v their_o love-feast_n at_o that_o time_n also_o and_o why_o they_o shall_v not_o attend_v upon_o the_o minister_n at_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n i_o know_v not_o in_o n._n england_n the_o deacon_n also_o bring_v in_o to_o the_o elder_n table_n they_o be_v not_o trouble_v as_o we_o be_v here_o to_o send_v to_o every_o body_n house_n in_o particular_a for_o our_o due_n 4._o it_o be_v clear_a by_o 1_o tim._n 3._o and_o phil._n 1.1_o there_o be_v such_o a_o officer_n as_o a_o deacon_n and_o that_o distinct_a from_o the_o bishop_n i_o wonder_v what_o be_v the_o work_n of_o this_o deacon_n be_v a_o officer_n not_o the_o bishop_n i_o be_o sure_a than_o he_o shall_v not_o have_v be_v distinguish_v from_o the_o bishop_n neither_o be_v the_o same_o qualification_n in_o every_o point_n require_v of_o he_o that_o be_v of_o the_o bishop_n when_o or_o where_o have_v this_o officer_n his_o original_n i_o think_v in_o this_o

42._o s._n 41_o 42_o 50._o 5._o carry_v the_o objection_n to_o our_o first_o reformer_n where_o it_o shall_v seem_v to_o have_v most_o strength_n what_o godly_a man_n be_v there_o who_o call_v to_o mind_n cranmer_n latimer_n hooper_n ridly_n philpot_n bradford_n etc._n etc._n person_n upon_o who_o this_o objection_n will_v fall_v as_o to_o their_o own_o ministry_n and_o their_o ordain_v of_o other_o that_o will_v not_o be_v ashamed_a of_o himself_o shall_v he_o null_a their_o ministry_n and_o as_o some_o though_o this_o divine_a abhor_v it_o i_o believe_v who_o mouth_n be_v full_a of_o nothing_o but_o antichristian_a call_v these_o antichristian_a minister_n because_o ordain_v by_o popish_a man_n thou_o who_o call_v these_o antichristian_a minister_n rise_v up_o with_o they_o in_o the_o morning_n answer_v they_o in_o holiness_n go_v to_o the_o prison_n with_o they_o and_o from_o thence_o to_o the_o stake_n and_o burn_v with_o they_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o christ_n grant_v it_o they_o be_v ordain_v as_o the_o objection_n run_v after_o enlighten_v they_o throw_v off_o popery_n but_o their_o ordination_n they_o hold_v be_v no_o popish_a invention_n they_o go_v on_o still_o to_o preach_v baptize_v etc._n etc._n and_o ordain_v other_o why_o not_o when_o these_o man_n be_v ordain_v by_o such_o man_n they_o have_v a_o ministerial_a charge_n put_v upon_o they_o set_z apart_z to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n to_o dispense_v the_o thing_n of_o christ_n not_o of_o mahomet_n or_o such_o like_a while_o they_o be_v in_o the_o dark_a they_o act_v superstitious_o afterward_o more_o pure_o the_o corruption_n they_o reform_v the_o substance_n they_o keep_v and_o so_o our_o divine_n now_o will_n not_o the_o mercy_n of_o god_n pardon_v this_o and_o keep_v his_o sacrifice_n still_o in_o his_o church_n i_o doubt_v not_o but_o he_o will_n the_o usual_a distinction_n make_v 1._o between_o a_o person_n and_o his_o office_n 2._o between_o the_o substance_n of_o a_o ordinance_n and_o the_o accidental_a corruption_n of_o it_o 3._o between_o what_o come_v through_o rome_n be_v christ_n institution_n and_o what_o come_v from_o rome_n be_v their_o own_o invention_n these_o distinction_n will_v soon_o answer_v the_o objection_n 6._o 66._o to._n 2._o p._n 66._o learned_a aim_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o bellarmin_n urge_v this_o ecclesia_fw-la nullo_n modo_fw-la potest_fw-la esse_fw-la sine_fw-la pastoribus_fw-la &_o episcopis_fw-la illi_fw-la soli_fw-la sunt_fw-la very_fw-la episcopi_fw-la qui_fw-la ab_fw-la apostolis_n per_fw-la legitimam_fw-la successionem_fw-la &_o ordinationem_fw-la descendisse_fw-la ostenduntur_fw-la etc._n etc._n speak_v thus_o ab_fw-la apostolis_n descenderunt_fw-la own_v illi_fw-la pastor_n qui_fw-la secundum_fw-la canon_n apostolicos_fw-la in_o scripture_n traditos_fw-la sunt_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la constituti_fw-la 4._o horum_fw-la perpetua_fw-la successio_fw-la ab_fw-la apostolis_n &_o apostolicis_fw-la viris_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la necessariò_fw-la ostendenda_fw-la ex_fw-la historiarum_fw-la humanarum_fw-la incertis_fw-la testimoniis_fw-la sed_fw-la ex_fw-la promissione_n illa_fw-la christi_fw-la qua_fw-la spospondit_fw-fr se_fw-la per_fw-la omnes_fw-la aetates_fw-la excitaturum_fw-la operarios_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la electorum_fw-la procurandam_fw-la 5._o ordinandi_fw-la potestas_fw-la quoad_fw-la jus_o cuique_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la particulari_fw-la est_fw-la a_o deo_fw-la concessa_fw-la now_o for_o his_o last_o 6._o pastor_n hunc_fw-la in_o modunt_fw-la descendentes_fw-la &_o justo_fw-la jure_fw-la ordinatos_fw-la habemus_fw-la nos_fw-la per_fw-la dei_fw-la gratiam_fw-la in_o omnibus_fw-la ecclesiis_fw-la ex_fw-la voto_fw-la nostro_fw-la constitutis_fw-la if_o any_o shall_v take_v hold_n of_o the_o last_o word_n and_o suppose_v the_o doctor_n mean_v gather_v church_n in_o which_o the_o people_n do_v ordain_v sure_o they_o wrong_v the_o doctor_n much_o i_o wonder_v how_o many_o such_o church_n there_o be_v when_o the_o doctor_n write_v neither_o have_v the_o doctor_n answer_v bellarmin_n who_o oppose_v all_o minister_n not_o ordain_v by_o the_o roman_a power_n but_o have_v fall_v off_o from_o rome_n then_o the_o doctor_n must_v own_v the_o ordination_n of_o the_o reform_a minister_n else_o he_o say_v nothing_o to_o the_o jesuit_n i_o wish_v this_o divine_a will_v answer_v bellarmin_n better_o doctor_n ames_n use_v to_o be_v esteem_v of_o among_o congregational_a man_n 7._o for_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o rome_n be_v more_o corrupt_a now_o in_o doctrine_n than_o it_o be_v when_o our_o first_o reformer_n fall_v off_o what_o difference_n there_o be_v between_o the_o former_a and_o latter_a schoolman_n who_o know_v not_o so_o that_o rome_n be_v not_o now_o what_o it_o be_v then_o when_o our_o man_n have_v their_o ordination_n from_o thence_o but_o may_v we_o not_o say_v as_o our_o brethren_n do_v of_o parish-congregation_n they_o will_v not_o deny_v the_o most_o understanding_n and_o sober_a of_o they_o but_o that_o in_o many_o parish_n there_o be_v true_a church_n though_o they_o will_v not_o say_v the_o whole_a parish_n be_v a_o true_a church_n according_a to_o the_o constitution_n so_o there_o be_v a_o true_a church_n under_o the_o romish_a jurisdiction_n though_o we_o do_v not_o say_v rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n but_o what_o shall_v we_o say_v to_o such_o a_o people_n where_o the_o true_a god_n and_o the_o trinity_n with_o the_o attribute_n of_o god_n jesus_n christ_n in_o his_o divine_a and_o human_a nature_n the_o satisfaction_n and_o price_n of_o christ_n as_o the_o meritorious_a cause_n of_o our_o justification_n 5._o justification_n see_v bellar_n de_fw-fr justif_a l_o 1._o c._n 2._o &_o l._n 2._o c._n 5._o and_o pardon_n the_o scripture_n all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o freegrace_n of_o god_n in_o opposition_n to_o man_n proud_a freewill_n o_fw-la excellent_a bradwardin_n and_o alvarez_n etc._n etc._n be_v own_v defend_v believe_v where_o there_o be_v person_n who_o walk_v according_a to_o scripture_n rule_v in_o a_o great_a degree_n what_o shall_v we_o say_v be_v here_o no_o church_n if_o our_o state_n have_v be_v right_o guide_v when_o they_o make_v the_o act_n to_o tolerate_v those_o who_o own_o one_o god_n christ_n and_o scripture_n than_o a_o church_n in_o rome_n may_v be_v own_v where_o these_o and_o many_o other_o truth_n be_v maintain_v more_o sound_o than_o they_o will_v be_v by_o many_o of_o our_o tolerate_a person_n yea_o it_o be_v well_o if_o all_o the_o member_n of_o congregat_v church_n in_o england_n be_v as_o sound_v in_o those_o truth_n before_o mention_v and_o as_o holy_a in_o their_o conversation_n as_o be_v divers_a who_o live_v under_o rome_n as_o for_o the_o pope_n be_v it_o no_o more_o but_o bare_a government_n compare_v with_o the_o carriage_n of_o many_o church-member_n i_o may_v say_v as_o learned_a mr._n norton_n of_o n._n england_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o general_n court_n be_v there_o no_o medium_n between_o boniface_n and_o morellius_n between_o papacy_n and_o anarchy_n babylon_n and_o babel_n etc._n etc._n both_o be_v naught_o the_o people_n anarchy_n as_o well_o as_o the_o pope_n tyranny_n and_o his_o tyranny_n will_v not_o soon_o deny_v a_o church_n there_o as_o to_o discipline_n then_o anarchy_n do_v in_o these_o member_n we_o see_v the_o effect_n how_o many_o man_n in_o england_n have_v turn_v papist_n since_o they_o see_v these_o carriage_n in_o the_o church_n but_o again_o what_o mean_v those_o text_n come_v out_o of_o she_o my_o people_n rev._n 18.4_o if_o there_o be_v no_o church_n there_o the_o woman_n fly_v into_o the_o wilderness_n rel._n 12.6_o take_v it_o as_o mr._n mead_n or_o as_o pareus_n yet_o it_o will_v argue_v a_o true_a church_n to_o have_v be_v under_o rome_n the_o witness_n prophesy_v 1260._o day_n during_o the_o time_n of_o the_o woman_n be_v in_o the_o wilderness_n they_o be_v to_o feed_v she_o this_o must_v needs_o fall_v under_o the_o time_n before_o the_o reformation_n begin_v it_o when_o you_o will_n more_o i_o can_v say_v but_o i_o think_v this_o be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v that_o ordination_n may_v and_o ought_v still_o to_o be_v continue_v notwithstanding_o rome_n and_o that_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o a_o minister_n and_o since_o both_o these_o objection_n be_v make_v against_o i_o by_o commissioner_n though_o i_o will_v hope_v more_o disputandi_fw-la gratiâ_fw-la then_o be_v indeed_o opposite_a to_o my_o thesis_n i_o say_v i_o will_v be_v glad_a to_o hope_v so_o and_o since_o this_o script_n may_v possible_o fall_v into_o some_o of_o their_o hand_n i_o wish_v humble_o and_o i_o know_v i_o can_v have_v hundred_o of_o godly_a minister_n to_o join_v with_o i_o they_o will_v please_v to_o take_v off_o that_o offence_n which_o i_o conceive_v be_v just_o give_v to_o the_o most_o part_n of_o the_o godly_a ministry_n in_o england_n when_o they_o see_v they_o let_v into_o the_o ministry_n person_n illiterate_a and_o some_o blame-worthy_a in_o their_o conversation_n as_o i_o be_o inform_v by_o godly_a

say_v if_o you_o will_v mould_n your_o church_n according_a to_o those_o in_o the_o scripture_n and_o have_v divers_a elder_n to_o carry_v on_o the_o affair_n of_o the_o church_n why_o then_o may_v we_o not_o have_v one_o elder_a among_o these_o who_o may_v be_v a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d suppose_v a_o stand_a moderator_n for_o in_o those_o church_n we_o find_v mention_v make_v of_o a_o angel_n in_o ephesus_n and_o the_o other_o church_n which_o seem_v to_o imply_v as_o much_o i_o answer_v if_o you_o do_v not_o make_v this_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d primus_fw-la presbyter_n stand_v moderator_n or_o what_o other_o name_n you_o will_v give_v he_o a_o distinct_a scriptural_a officer_n from_o other_o presbyter_n give_v to_o he_o a_o power_n distinct_a from_o and_o superior_a to_o the_o power_n of_o other_o preach_a presbyter_n whence_o he_o shall_v perform_v some_o church-act_n which_o other_o preach_a presbyter_n shall_v not_o or_o can_v perform_v so_o that_o it_o be_v no_o distinct_a or_o superior_a power_n but_o only_o order_v which_o be_v contend_v for_o i_o be_o well_o content_a to_o yield_v it_o be_v ready_a to_o go_v with_o other_o for_o peace_n and_o unity_n sake_n till_o they_o come_v to_o constitute_v officer_n which_o christ_n never_o do_v than_o i_o say_v hold._n but_o for_o a_o stand_a moderator_n one_o that_o durante_fw-la vitâ_fw-la modo_fw-la bene_fw-la se_fw-la gesserit_fw-la shall_v keep_v that_o place_n let_v he_o per_fw-la i_o licet_fw-la for_o 1._o in_o the_o meeting_n of_o council_n there_o must_v be_v one_o who_o must_v rule_v and_o order_v the_o affair_n at_o those_o time_n a_o precedent_n a_o moderator_n must_v be_v reason_n lead_v we_o to_o it_o to_o avoid_v confusion_n and_o this_o be_v see_v in_o the_o synodical_a meeting_n of_o congregational_a elder_n 2._o he_o who_o be_v choose_v precedent_n or_o moderator_n this_o session_n may_v be_v the_o next_o and_o the_o next_o we_o may_v choose_v he_o for_o one_o year_n or_o two_o year_n what_o scripture_n text_n forbid_v it_o why_o may_v we_o not_o twenty_o 3._o i_o be_o so_o far_o from_o think_v it_o be_v contrary_a to_o scripture_n that_o i_o think_v it_o come_v near_a to_o scripture_n i_o may_v declare_v my_o opinion_n with_o submission_n to_o better_a judgement_n for_o as_o for_o the_o word_n angel_n mention_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o seven_o church_n though_o i_o can_v agree_v to_o that_o which_o that_o ever_o honour_a and_o learned_a davenant_n do_v gather_v from_o it_o namely_o 42._o determ_fw-la 42._o the_o superiority_n of_o the_o bishop_n above_o other_o presbyter_n because_o here_o be_v one_o in_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n etc._n etc._n which_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d for_o what_o isidore_n say_v of_o create_v angel_n angelus_n est_fw-la nomen_fw-la officii_fw-la non_fw-la naturae_fw-la semper_fw-la sunt_fw-la spiritus_fw-la sed_fw-la cum_fw-la mittuntur_fw-la vocantur_fw-la angeli_fw-la i_o may_v apply_v to_o this_o if_o all_o true_a preach_a minister_n be_v send_v as_o they_o be_v rom._n 10._o then_o they_o also_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i_o think_v our_o divine_n have_v speak_v sufficient_o to_o take_v off_o this_o yet_o with_o favour_n i_o conceive_v that_o christ_n mention_v a_o angel_n in_o the_o singular_a number_n and_o reason_n tell_v we_o what_o must_v be_v in_o all_o orderly_a meeting_n &_o council_n to_o avoid_v confusion_n there_o be_v divers_a elder_n in_o one_o church_n who_o have_v the_o care_n inspection_n and_o government_n of_o it_o i_o conceive_v those_o elder_n have_v one_o who_o for_o order_n sake_n be_v a_o precedent_n moderator_n though_o he_o have_v not_o power_n above_o they_o as_o may_v be_v prove_v by_o other_o scripture_n that_o order_v the_o transaction_n when_o they_o meet_v nor_o can_v i_o conceive_v it_o be_v so_o for_o one_o session_n or_o two_o but_o for_o his_o life_n for_o aught_o i_o can_v learn_v he_o that_o can_v let_v he_o prove_v the_o contrary_a in_o that_o he_o be_v take_v notice_n of_o so_o in_o a_o special_a manner_n it_o shall_v seem_v he_o be_v one_o that_o be_v so_o more_o than_o one_o or_o two_o session_n 4._o i_o very_o conceive_v that_o error_n be_v not_o offend_v i_o pray_v if_o i_o call_v it_o so_o for_o i_o humble_o conceive_v it_o to_o be_v so_o which_o so_o soon_o creep_v in_o of_o one_o assume_v power_n above_o other_o presbyter_n take_v its_o first_o rise_n upon_o occasion_n of_o this_o order_n god_n providence_n so_o order_v it_o to_o leave_v his_o own_o servant_n to_o their_o wisdom_n and_o will_n who_o free_o act_v make_v way_n at_o last_o for_o his_o decree_n for_o if_o the_o precedent_n or_o moderator_n have_v shift_v and_o change_v every_o session_n i_o can_v tell_v which_o way_n it_o be_v possible_a a_o pope_n shall_v have_v rise_v obj._n therefore_o away_o with_o your_o stand_a moderator_n you_o have_v speak_v enough_o against_o it_o ans_fw-fr stay_v not_o too_o fast_o must_v i_o throw_v away_o every_o thing_n that_o may_v be_v or_o be_v abuse_v occasio_fw-la and_o causa_fw-la differ_v much_o diotrephes_n and_o so_o other_o minister_n may_v abuse_v their_o power_n shall_v then_o a_o minister_n have_v no_o power_n over_o his_o people_n tollatur_fw-la abusus_fw-la maneat_fw-la usus_fw-la obj._n but_o for_o minister_n power_n we_o have_v scripture_n for_o it_o plain_o so_o we_o have_v not_o for_o a_o constant_a stand_a moderator_n ans_fw-fr by_o scripture_n authority_n we_o make_v officer_n who_o have_v power_n from_o christ_n immediate_o i_o be_o not_o discourse_v of_o the_o make_n of_o a_o church-officer_n and_o what_o power_n such_o a_o officer_n shall_v have_v i_o disclaim_v this_o power_n and_o order_n be_v two_o thing_n 2._o that_o text_n which_o before_o i_o produce_v i_o know_v not_o what_o fair_o interpretation_n can_v be_v give_v of_o it_o i_o can_v exclude_v superiority_n of_o power_n by_o other_o scripture_n but_o why_o a_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n which_o cross_v no_o other_o scripture_n nor_o sound_a reason_n and_o have_v such_o fair_a probability_n from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o most_o ancient_a shall_v not_o be_v admit_v especial_o when_o a_o fair_a interpretation_n can_v be_v give_v for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v none_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n the_o most_o that_o can_v be_v object_v against_o i_o be_v matter_n of_o prudence_n but_o i_o conceive_v 1._o that_o which_o come_v near_a to_o make_v peace_n in_o the_o church_n and_o do_v not_o cross_v the_o scripture_n that_o be_v prudence_n 2._o that_o which_o come_v near_a to_o scripture_n interpretation_n have_v the_o practice_n of_o so_o many_o ancient_a holy_a man_n and_o martyr_n though_o i_o know_v they_o go_v high_a to_o give_v light_a to_o it_o this_o i_o call_v prudence_n 3._o time_n will_v discover_v which_o will_v have_v most_o prudence_n in_o it_o whether_o a_o moderator_n or_o precedent_n change_v every_o session_n or_o a_o stand_a moderator_n i_o think_v now_o we_o be_v out_o of_o danger_n of_o make_v a_o pope_n if_o his_o time_n of_o ruin_n be_v so_o near_o as_o some_o think_v thus_o i_o have_v deliver_v my_o thought_n humble_o conceive_v that_o a_o church_n so_o mould_v as_o there_o may_v be_v divers_a elder_n in_o it_o and_o among_o these_o one_o choose_v for_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d precedent_n or_o what_o you_o will_v call_v he_o for_o order_n sake_n to_o abide_v so_o constant_o come_v near_o to_o the_o platform_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o scripture_n and_o in_o this_o there_o be_v something_o of_o the_o congregational_a something_o of_o the_o classical_a and_o something_o like_o the_o episcopal_a way_n such_o a_o church_n for_o the_o exercise_n of_o its_o power_n be_v independent_a as_o be_v the_o church_n in_o ephesus_n but_o to_o have_v one_o pastor_n and_o it_o may_v be_v twelve_o man_n to_o stand_v alone_o and_o to_o exercise_v all_o church-power_n when_o they_o may_v associate_v i_o desire_v to_o see_v such_o a_o church_n in_o scripture_n part_n ii_o chap._n i._n a_o plea_n for_o ordination_n ●77_n to._n 4._o disp_n 9_o q._n 1._o p._n 1._o i_o own_v no_o church_n officer_n which_o be_v not_o ordain_v nemo_fw-la ad_fw-la ordinariam_fw-la in_o ecclesiâ_fw-la functionem_fw-la sive_fw-la ad_fw-la diaconatum_fw-la sive_fw-la ad_fw-la presbyteratum_fw-la etc._n etc._n admitti_fw-la debet_fw-la nisi_fw-la legitimè_fw-la electus_fw-la &_o ordinatus_fw-la zanch._n 4._o praec_fw-la p._n ●77_n although_o i_o be_o far_o from_o valentia_n judgement_n make_v ordination_n a_o sacrament_n strict_o so_o call_v yet_o in_o this_o i_o think_v he_o say_v true_a when_o he_o will_v have_v the_o word_n ordination_n to_o be_v take_v from_o the_o effect_n of_o that_o ordinance_n quia_fw-la per_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la aliquis_fw-la in_o gradu_fw-la quodam_fw-la atque_fw-la ordine_fw-la certo_fw-la ecclesiasticae_fw-la dignitatis_fw-la