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scripture_n believe_v book_n canonical_a 2,414 5 10.7996 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A06697 A profitable dialogue for a peruerted papist. Or a little labour of a lay men tending to the profit of a peruerted Papist: namely, by laying open vnto him his ovvne errour, in beleeuing that the Church of Rome cannot erre. Composed in dialogue maner, as it were betweene a simple lay man, and certayne graue diuines, and published onely for the benefit of the lay Papist. VVritten by R.M. gent. and student in Diuinity. R. M., student in divinity. 1609 (1609) STC 17149; ESTC S103258 25,816 46

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and_o in_o his_o 96_o treatis_fw-la by_o this_o occasion_n of_o the_o evangelicall_a sentence_n where_o our_o lord_n say_v i_o have_v yet_o many_o thing_n to_o say_v to_o you_o etc._n etc._n all_o the_o most_o foolish_a heretic_n that_o will_v be_v call_v christian_n go_v about_o to_o colour_v the_o boldness_n of_o their_o own_o invention_n etc._n etc._n but_o who_o dare_v to_o avouch_v that_o such_o and_o such_o be_v those_o thing_n which_o christ_n have_v to_o say_v to_o his_o disciple_n and_o if_o they_o do_v avouch_v it_o how_o do_v they_o prove_v it_o &_o c_o lay._n to_o this_o thou_o have_v answer_v very_o plain_a for_o by_o this_o thy_o plain_a speech_n we_o well_o perceyve_v thy_o meaning_n in_o a_o other_o place_n 5._o place_n against_o the_o epistle_n of_o fundament_n chap._n 5._o where_o thou_o say_v that_o thou_o shall_v not_o have_v believe_v the_o gospel_n unless_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n have_v move_v thou_o thereunto_o etc._n etc._n we_o also_o in_o these_o our_o day_n may_v just_o avouch_v the_o same_o thing_n because_o first_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o mean_n for_o the_o most_o part_n to_o move_v the_o outward_a man_n both_o to_o know_v and_o believe_v and_o also_o to_o reverence_v the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o tell_v we_o yet_o reverend_a father_n be_v that_o authority_n still_o absolute_o to_o be_v obey_v albeit_o it_o teach_v uncertain_a thing_n which_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o allow_v or_o may_v we_o then_o lawful_o forsake_v it_o although_o by_o the_o same_o mean_n we_o first_o beléeve_v aug._n my_o son_n 14._o son_n against_o the_o same_o epistle_n chap_n 14._o what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v but_o to_o forsake_v they_o that_o invite_v we_o to_o know_v thing_n certain_a and_o afterward_o command_v we_o to_o believe_v thing_n uncertain_a and_o to_o follow_v they_o which_o invite_v we_o first_o to_o believe_v that_o which_o we_o be_v not_o yet_o able_a to_o behold_v that_o be_v make_v strong_a by_o 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that_o matter_n we_o will_v crave_v a_o few_o word_n from_o gregory_n the_o great_a sometime_o bishop_n of_o rome_n touch_v the_o universal_a supremacy_n of_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n for_o we_o take_v his_o universal_a authority_n to_o be_v the_o only_a cause_n that_o rome_n error_n have_v be_v so_o much_o scatter_v and_o disperse_v abroad_o into_o every_o christian_a nation_n and_o because_o they_o hold_v now_o in_o rome_n that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n can_v err_v we_o think_v the_o best_a proof_n against_o they_o therein_o be_v to_o bring_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n against_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n speak_v divine_a gregory_n what_o say_v thou_o to_o he_o that_o be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o universal_a bishop_n gregory_n my_o son_n if_o any_o one_o in_o the_o church_n snatch_v to_o himself_o that_o name_n 32._o name_n in_o his_o register_n the_o 4._o book_n epistle_n 32._o than_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o good_a man_n when_o he_o fall_v which_o be_v call_v 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if_o one_o be_v call_v epistle_n call_v in_o his_o 39_o epistle_n the_o universal_a patriarch_n the_o name_n of_o patriarch_n be_v take_v from_o the_o rest_n but_o away_o with_o that_o etc._n etc._n to_o consent_v to_o that_o wicked_a name_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o destroy_v faith_n etc._n etc._n epistle_n etc._n in_o his_o ●_o book_n and_o 69._o epistle_n one_o to_o be_v universal_a bishop_n be_v to_o the_o injury_n &_o rent_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o as_o we_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contempt_n of_o all_o bishop_n for_o if_o one_o be_v universal_a as_o he_o think_v it_o remain_v that_o the_o rest_n be_v not_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n lay._n but_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n permit_v this_o matter_n to_o be_v lawful_a which_o thou_o do_v so_o much_o gainsay_v do_v any_o evil_n then_o come_v thereby_o our_o lord_n
a_o profitable_a dialogue_n for_o a_o pervert_v papist_n or_o a_o little_a labour_n of_o a_o lay_v man_n tend_v to_o the_o profit_n of_o a_o pervert_v papist_n namely_o by_o lay_v open_a unto_o he_o his_o own_o error_n in_o believe_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v err_v compose_v in_o dialogue_n manner_n as_o it_o be_v between_o a_o simple_a lay_v man_n and_o certain_a grave_a divine_n and_o publish_v only_o for_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o lay_n papist_n write_a by_o r._n m._n gent._n and_o student_n in_o divinity_n brethren_n be_v not_o child_n in_o understanding_n 1._o cor._n 14._o 20._o if_o god_n be_v on_o our_o side_n who_o can_v be_v against_o we_o rom._n 8._o 31._o seek_v and_o you_o shall_v find_v math._n 7._o 7._o london_n print_a by_o simon_n stafford_n dwell_v in_o the_o cloth-fayre_a near_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o red_a lion_n 1609._o the_o content_n of_o this_o book_n this_o small_a treatise_n be_v divide_v into_o two_o part_n 1_o the_o first_o part_n contain_v certain_a proof_n from_o antiquity_n that_o it_o be_v only_o the_o society_n of_o the_o faithful_a the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n that_o can_v not_o final_o err_v and_o that_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o rome_n or_o where_o else_o soever_o may_v err_v and_o therefore_o not_o lawful_a for_o any_o one_o bishop_n on_o earth_n to_o be_v admit_v universal_a bishop_n or_o supreme_a head_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n 2_o the_o second_o part_n confirm_v the_o former_a proof_n by_o manifest_a proof_n also_o from_o antiquity_n that_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o rome_n do_v err_v in_o a_o principal_a point_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n as_o namely_o touch_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o bless_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o lord_n and_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n the_o author_n to_o the_o learned_a reader_n good_a reader_n myself_o be_v a_o lay_v man_n and_o altogether_o unskilful_a in_o art_n i_o be_o therefore_o to_o entreat_v of_o thou_o be_v a_o scholar_n that_o thou_o will_v not_o so_o much_o regard_v the_o manner_n and_o form_n of_o this_o my_o weak_a work_n as_o the_o matter_n and_o substance_n itself_o which_o be_v no_o other_o thing_n in_o effect_n but_o certain_a manifest_a proof_n from_o antiquity_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v err_v prove_v by_o such_o ancient_a witness_n as_o the_o papist_n themselves_o allow_v for_o lawful_a and_o so_o forcible_a be_v those_o witness_n against_o those_o romish_a adversary_n that_o if_o hereafter_o any_o of_o they_o shall_v go_v about_o to_o reply_v against_o this_o treatise_n ensue_v they_o shall_v but_o thereby_o the_o more_o lay_v open_a their_o own_o folly_n and_o shame_n in_o strive_v against_o the_o invincible_a stream_n for_o great_a be_v the_o truth_n and_o it_o will_v prevail_v yea_o what_o can_v more_o confound_v the_o learned_a adversary_n or_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 11._o say_v tit._n ●_o 10._o 11._o condemn_v he_o to_o err_v in_o his_o own_o judgement_n then_o to_o find_v himself_o altogether_o 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of_o heretic_n and_o so_o with_o little_a labour_n either_o to_o convert_v they_o or_o confound_v they_o for_o common_o the_o heretic_n may_v be_v condemn_v by_o his_o own_o mouth_n his_o doctrine_n contradict_v some_o truth_n in_o scripture_n which_o himself_o profess_v to_o believe_v for_o where_o tradition_n and_o custom_n of_o man_n be_v regard_v before_o holy_a scripture_n there_o ignorance_n do_v soon_o beget_v error_n especial_o if_o diverse_a thing_n call_v by_o one_o name_n be_v not_o so_o perfect_o distinguish_v but_o that_o the_o one_o may_v be_v take_v for_o the_o other_o but_o let_v the_o ignorant_a learn_fw-mi first_o touch_v faith_n a_o true_a faith_n which_o work_v by_o love_n be_v one_o thing_n and_o a_o verbal_a or_o vain_a faith_n another_o second_o touch_v justification_n a_o justification_n before_o god_n be_v one_o thing_n and_o a_o justification_n before_o man_n another_o for_o god_n justifi_v according_a to_o the_o inward_a heart_n by_o the_o good_a tree_n true_a faith_n but_o man_n justifi_v according_a to_o the_o outward_a declaration_n by_o the_o fruit_n proceed_v from_o that_o tree_n 43._o tree_n luke_n 6._o 43._o good_a work_n s._n paul_n treat_v of_o the_o first_o justification_n deny_v not_o the_o second_o for_o he_o say_v if_o abraham_n be_v justify_v by_o work_n he_o have_v wherein_o to_o rejoice_v but_o not_o with_o god_n etc._n etc._n 4._o etc._n rom._n 4._o s._n james_n treat_v of_o the_o second_o deny_v not_o the_o first_o for_o he_o grant_n abraham_n believe_v god_n it_o be_v impute_v unto_o he_o for_o righteousness_n &c_n &c_n 2._o &c_n james._n 2._o three_o touch_v the_o church_n the_o society_n of_o the_o faithful_a which_o live_v by_o true_a faith_n and_o therefore_o hell_n gate_n not_o possible_a to_o prevail_v against_o they_o be_v one_o thing_n and_o a_o
form_n etc._n etc._n compare_v the_o sign_n with_o the_o truth_n &_o thou_o shall_v understand_v the_o similitude_n for_o the_o figure_n ought_v to_o be_v like_o the_o truth_n for_o true_o that_o body_n have_v the_o first_o form_n and_o figure_n and_o circumscription_n and_o that_o i_o may_v say_v at_o once_o the_o substance_n of_o a_o body_n but_o it_o be_v make_v immortal_a after_o the_o resurrection_n etc._n etc._n lay._n most_o true_a it_o be_v grave_a father_n christ_n have_v still_o the_o true_a substance_n of_o a_o body_n and_o therefore_o the_o sign_n and_o the_o thing_n signify_v be_v alike_o those_o heretic_n whosoever_o they_o be_v that_o seem_v to_o prove_v the_o form_n of_o bread_n in_o the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v there_o without_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n do_v thereby_o seem_v to_o prove_v also_o christ_n to_o a_o have_v a_o fantastical_a body_n that_o be_v a_o body_n in_o show_n without_o the_o substance_n of_o a_o body_n but_o thou_o do_v hear_v most_o plain_o confute_v that_o palpable_a absurdity_n &_o therein_o thou_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o true_a doctrine_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o what_o christian_n live_v a_o thousand_o year_n since_o or_o upward_o do_v ever_o affirm_v such_o a_o real_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n that_o thereby_o christ_n god_n and_o man_n be_v to_o be_v swallow_v into_o the_o body_n of_o many_o damn_a creature_n we_o find_v many_o proof_n from_o antiquity_n to_o the_o contrary_a as_o partly_o have_v be_v note_v already_o and_o yet_o for_o more_o witness_n thereof_o we_o note_v s._n ambrose_n also_o who_o say_v plain_o touch_v this_o sacred_a bread_n even_o christ_n himself_o that_o it_o be_v not_o bread_n which_o go_v into_o the_o body_n 4._o body_n in_o his_o ●_o book_n of_o sacrament_n chap._n 4._o but_o the_o bread_n of_o eternal_a life_n which_o strengthen_v the_o substance_n of_o our_o soul_n etc._n etc._n he_o say_v not_o as_o some_o perverse_o misconstrue_v he_o non_fw-la transi●e_n in_o corpus_fw-la per_fw-la nutritionem_fw-la chap._n nutritionem_fw-la bellarm._n upon_o the_o eucharist_n the_o 2._o book_n &_o 14._o chap._n it_o pass_v not_o through_o the_o body_n by_o nourishment_n but_o non_fw-la vadit_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la it_o go_v not_o into_o the_o body_n etc._n etc._n who_o then_o can_v mistake_v he_o here_o but_o he_o that_o wilful_o make_v himself_o ignorant_a even_o he_o which_o by_o such_o undirect_a deal_n pervert_v thy_o word_n also_o say_v 27._o say_v bellarm._n in_o the_o same_o book_n chap._n 27._o where_o thou_o do_v affirm_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n to_o remain_v after_o sanctification_n both_o in_o substance_n nature_n figure_n and_o form_n as_o they_o be_v before_o thou_o do_v thereby_o mean_a only_o the_o sensible_a accident_n and_o visible_a form_n do_v so_o remain_v but_o the_o substance_n to_o be_v change_v but_o if_o such_o weak_a defend_n of_o error_n be_v allow_v for_o good_a and_o lawful_a in_o vain_a than_o it_o be_v to_o bring_v any_o testimony_n from_o antiquity_n against_o heretic_n but_o we_o hope_v that_o such_o perverse_a answer_n from_o the_o perverter_n may_v prove_v in_o good_a time_n a_o good_a motive_n for_o the_o pervert_v to_o look_v about_o he_o betimes_o and_o not_o both_o to_o live_v and_o die_v a_o child_n in_o understanding_n for_o ignorance_n can_v excuse_v those_o that_o wilful_o refuse_v to_o walk_v by_o the_o light_n of_o holy_a scripture_n the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v a_o lantern_n unto_o my_o foot_n and_o a_o light_n unto_o my_o path_n say_v the_o prophet_n david_n 119._o david_n psalm_n 119._o it_o be_v as_o a_o light_n shine_v in_o a_o dark_a place_n say_v s._n peter_n 1._o peter_n 2._o pet._n 1._o by_o which_o we_o be_v give_v to_o understand_v that_o as_o the_o sun_n give_v light_a to_o the_o corporal_a eye_n so_o do_v the_o holy_a scripture_n give_v light_n to_o the_o spiritual_a eye_n whereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o neither_o our_o adversaries_n nor_o ourselves_o will_v wilful_o become_v blind_a and_o then_o trust_v to_o the_o lead_n of_o other_o we_o shall_v soon_o all_o agree_v in_o one_o outward_a profession_n for_o who_o be_v he_o that_o can_v believe_v contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o séee_v or_o where_o be_v that_o spiritual_a man_n so_o contentious_a as_o not_o to_o allow_v those_o tradition_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v not_o contrary_a to_o the_o express_a word_n of_o god_n we_o grant_v from_o the_o sacrament_n according_a to_o that_o truth_n which_o we_o find_v in_o holy_a scripture_n 63._o scripture_n john_n 6._o 63._o the_o true_a eat_n &_o drink_v of_o the_o flesh_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n spiritual_o we_o say_v word_n for_o word_n as_o saint_n basil_n say_v above_o a_o thousand_o year_n since_o epistle_n since_o in_o his_o 141._o epistle_n we_o eat_v his_o flesh_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n be_v make_v partaker_n of_o he_o by_o incarnation_n and_o sensible_a life_n of_o the_o word_n and_o wisdom_n for_o he_o call_v all_o his_o mystical_a conversation_n in_o the_o flesh_n flesh_n and_o blood_n and_o make_v manifest_v that_o doctrine_n which_o depend_v of_o his_o life_n actual_a natural_a and_o divine_a by_o which_o the_o soul_n be_v nourish_v exercise_v and_o train_v up_o to_o the_o contemplation_n of_o heavenly_a thing_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o deny_v such_o a_o gross_a eat_n and_o drink_v therein_o that_o thereby_o both_o the_o righteous_a and_o the_o unrighteous_a be_v make_v partaker_n of_o christ_n which_o doctrine_n be_v most_o manifest_a against_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n 21._o scripture_n 1._o cor._n 10._o 21._o we_o deny_v also_o such_o a_o gross_a eat_n &_o drink_v therein_o that_o thereby_o lay_v people_n must_v not_o communicate_v with_o the_o bless_a cup_n of_o our_o lord_n fear_v lest_o they_o shall_v shed_v his_o prectous_a blood_n upon_o their_o garment_n or_o lest_o by_o the_o weakness_n of_o their_o stomach_n they_o shall_v bring_v up_o again_o their_o creator_n by_o belching_n and_o vomiting_n which_o absurdity_n the_o church_n have_v long_o since_o confute_v as_o witness_v s._n aug._n 13._o aug._n against_o faustus_n the_o 20_o book_n and_o chap._n 13._o for_o indeed_o according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o her_o head_n christ_n jesus_n so_o do_v the_o true_a church_n teach_v always_o but_o never_o do_v the_o true_a church_n teach_v that_o our_o saviour_n christ_n have_v any_o real_a be_v in_o the_o body_n of_o a_o wicked_a creature_n for_o christ_n himself_o be_v most_o plain_a against_o that_o vain_a doctrine_n and_o brief_o to_o prove_v that_o to_o be_v true_a we_o will_v now_o set_v aside_o all_o other_o witness_n and_o proof_n whatsoever_o and_o humble_o beseech_v the_o author_n of_o this_o bless_a sacrament_n even_o jesus_n christ_n himself_o to_o resolve_v we_o herein_o speak_v holy_a lamb_n of_o god_n thou_o that_o be_v the_o only_a saviour_n of_o the_o world_n &_o speak_v so_o we_o most_o humble_o beseech_v thou_o that_o thy_o word_n herein_o may_v prove_v a_o sweet_a savour_n of_o life_n to_o the_o small_a remnant_n of_o thy_o holy_a church_n in_o this_o corrupt_a age_n teach_v we_o sweet_a lord_n whether_o any_o can_v have_v true_a life_n without_o eat_v and_o drink_v that_o bless_a flesh_n and_o blood_n of_o thou_o and_o also_o whether_o any_o can_v miss_v of_o that_o true_a life_n eat_v and_o drink_v the_o same_o bless_a food_n christ_n my_o son_n 36._o son_n john_n 6._o 48._o to_o 36._o i_o be_o that_o bread_n of_o life_n your_o father_n do_v eat_v manna_n in_o the_o wilderness_n and_o be_v dead_a this_o be_v that_o bread_n which_o come_v down_o from_o heaven_n that_o he_o which_o eat_v of_o it_o shall_v not_o die_v i_o be_o that_o live_a bread_n which_o come_v down_o from_o heaven_n if_o any_o man_n eat_v of_o this_o bread_n he_o shall_v live_v for_o ever_o and_o the_o bread_n that_o i_o will_v give_v be_v my_o flesh_n which_o i_o will_v give_v for_o the_o life_n of_o the_o world_n etc._n etc._n very_o very_o i_o say_v unto_o you_o except_o you_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n you_o have_v no_o life_n in_o you_o whosoever_o eat_v my_o flesh_n and_o drink_v my_o blood_n have_v eternal_a life_n and_o i_o will_v raise_v he_o up_o at_o the_o last_o day_n for_o my_o flesh_n be_v meat_n indeed_o and_o my_o blood_n be_v drink_v indeed_o lay._n my_o lord_n and_o god_n these_o word_n of_o thou_o be_v profound_a and_o to_o the_o spiritual_a man_n spirit_n and_o life_n although_o to_o the_o carnal_a man_n far_o otherwise_o for_o notwithstanding_o thou_o have_v command_v we_o all_o not_o to_o add_v any_o thing_n to_o thy_o sacred_a word_n 18._o word_n deut._n 〈◊〉_d 2_o and_o 12._o 32._o 〈◊〉_d 22._o 18._o yet_o these_o carnall-minded_n man_n can_v not_o understand_v these_o thy_o comfortable_a speech_n