canne as well receiue the ouer baptime whiche is the dippyng into the water in the name of Christe as the infantes of the Iewes could receyue the sacrament of circumcision Then are childer as well to be baptised as olde folke are to be preached vnto and to be baptised Ar we now so destitute of scripture to proue that infantes maye be baptysed that we are fayne to fly for helpe to original sinne Whē as I proue by that that chylder haue originall synne that they hadde nede of the bath of water and regeneration do I flye from scrypture is the matter of origynall synne no part of scripture you do holde that there is none at all and therefore that the childer nede not nother ought to be baptysed vntyll they be .xiiij. yeare olde before whiche tyme they haue done many actuall synnes whyche hadde nede to be wasshed awaye wyth the bath of baptime Therefore it is no meruell that ye exclude originall synne from scripture as a thing whiche can not be found in scripture In youre nexte question ye make as wise a reason agaynst me as ye dyd in the begynnynge of youre booke dyuerse times This is my reason that ye go aboute to confute and ouerthrowe As for the vse of water is to clenge and scoure thynges that are vncleane and sygnifyeth where it is brought that there is some thynge whyche nedeth to be made clene so in oure baptyme the water doth signifye vnto vs that there is some vnclennes and fylthynes in our nature that had nede to be washed For thys cause I may sett the water in our baptym for an argument agaynst them that say that men as soone as they be borne haue no originall synne But let vs se your argument agaynst thys my saying ☞ Is that a suffycyent cause to proue orygynall synn to be in infantes because ye offer them water ¶ I aunswer the baptim of infantes being lawfull godly as I do presuppose it thē the water of baptim which vnfaithfullye ye cal onli water leuing out of baptim must nedes signifi vnto childer that they are vnclene But when as they haue committed no actuall synne and are yet synnes it foloweth that they haue origynall synne excepte there be mo synnes then actuall and originall But nowe let vs heare youre hole argument wherewith ye intende to boxe me Is that a sufficient cause to proue originall synne to be in infantes because ye offer them water Then is it as sufficient to proue that the Turkes and Iewes wyth al the rest of the people of the worlde haue it not nor are infected therewyth because ye offer it not vnto them I aunswere vnto thys argument by shewyng the like how stronge and myghtye thys of yours is Preachyng of Gods worde presupposeth that ther where it is preached men are infected with originall and actual synne but ye offer no preaching of Gods word vnto the Iewes Turkes and vnto the rest of the infydeles in the world therfore ye recken that nether Turke nor Iew nether any other infydele hath ether originall or actuall synne If that ye thynke that all the aboue rehersed infideles haue both originall and actuall synne for all that ye offer them no preachynge so I thynke that the forsayd infydeles haue orygynall synne not withstandyng that I offer thē no water In your next reason ye presuppose it that I dyd neuer beleue sence I hadde anye knowledge in the scripture that is that the water of baptyme taketh awaye the vnclennes of the soule but well wot I that the holy ghoste worketh onelye that worke and no creature in the worlde I knowe that Christes hole baptyme that is both the outwarde and the inner together purgeth both bodye and soule And I do fynd in dyuerse places of the newe Testament that it hath pleased GOD to graunt forgyuenesse of synnes by the inwarde baptyme when the outward baptyme was ministred that the thyng signyfyed shulde agree wyth the outwarde signe and sygnyfycatyon Peter sayd in the second chap. of the actes Let euery one of you be baptysed in the name of Iesu Christe to the forgyuenes of synne and ye shall receyue the gyft of the holy ghost Peter also sayeth Acto x. What lette is there that these be not baptysed in water whyche haue receyued the holy ghoste as well as we And Luke telleth that the meany of Cornelius receyued the holy ghoste and were contynentie baptysed with water Ananias also in the .ix. of the actes sayeth vnto Paule Brother Saule the lorde whom thou sawest in the way hath sente me that thou shouldest receyue thy syght agayne and be fylled wyth the holy ghoste and immediatelye there fell from hys eyes as they had bene scales and he receyued hys syghte and rose was baptysed ye se now how that God ioyneth in hys word the two baptymes together so that the outwarde baptyme is not a vayne signe and to be dispysed as ye seme to do where as ye axe how can water he le the woundes of the soul But leaste ye saye that I alledge your mynde falsely I wyll rehearse your wordes as ye wrote thē ☞ But nowe I saye that all the worlde hath synned and is defyled in Adā Howe nowe wyll water scoure awaye the fylthe of thps corruptyon No. It is a wounde receiued in the soule and is washed away but wyth the only fayth in the bloude of Christ ¶ Ye say here that all the world hath synned and is defyled in Adam and yf ye meane no subtylte and vnderstande by the worlde both the electe and the other lykewyse ye graunte openly orygynalle synne whych in other places ye haue denied and do denye as hereafter we shall proue both by your saying and doynge If that all the world hath synned in Adam thē haue also yonge chyldren synned in the same and ye saye that the corruption of Adam can not be scoured awaye wyth anye thynge sauyng only wyth the fayth in the bloud of Christe Ye saye also that no chylde hath fayth and therfore call all infantes vnbeleuers It foloweth of youre sayenge that ye are of that opynyon that all the chyldrē which dyed sence the begynnynge of the worlde vnto thys daye dyed vnpurged from the fylth of the soule and wythout forgyuenes of origynall synne Whose rewarde seynge that it is the death of the soule and euerlastynge dampnatyō herevpon it maye be gathered that ye are of thys opynyon that all chylderen are in the state of dānatyon and that yf they dye they are all dampned For thys argument maye be clearelye and truely gathered of youre owne sayinge ¶ None shall be scoured frō the corruption of orygynall synne but suche as haue fayth in the bloude of Christe But all chylderne wante fayth in the bloude of Christe as ye teache both openlye and pryuelye Therfore by you no chylderne are scoured from the corruption of orygynall synne ¶ Wherevpon it foloweth yf these sayinges of Paule be true Euyll was
rectissime creditur That is If any man loke for the autorite of God in this matter Howbeit that which the hole churche holdeth and is not ordened of any counsell but is alwayes holden styll it is mooste ryghtlye beleued that it was geuen oute and ordened by the Apostles The same Austen in a sermonde of the baptysme of infantyng agaynst the Pelagyaus sayth these wordes Cypriane beyng axed whether an infant myghte be baptysed before the viij daye because in the olde lawe the childe myght not be cyrcumcysed but on the eyghte day Saint Cyprian said that no man shulde be hyndred from grace and that the spirytual cyrcumcysyon oughte not to be hyndred by carnall cyrcumcysyon Cypriane wryteth also in the viij epistel of the thyrd booke these wordes concernyng the baptyme of infantes Porro autem si etiam grauissimis delictoribus in deum multum ante peccatibus cū postea crediderunt remissio peccatorum datur ae baptismo atque gratia nemo prohibetur quanto magis prohiberi non debet infans qui recens natus peccauit nisi quòd secundum Adam car naliter natus contagium mortis antiqua prima natiuitate contraxit Furthermore but yf that forgeuenes of synnes be geuen vnto the greatest synners and to them that dyd greately offend before after that they dyd beleue and no man is forbydden frō baptyme grace How much more ought not a spechles chylde to be forbydden whych beyng lately borne hath commytted no offence but that it beyng borne carnally after Adam hath caught the infeccyon of the olde death by hys fyrst byrthe This is the mynde of Cypryane concernyng baptysyng of chylder and of originall synne And the same doctor writeth in an other place Nos iure damnamus omnia quae Christus non docuit We condemne by good ryght all thynges whych Christe hath not taught But Cypryane alowed the baptyme of chyldern therfore he reckened that the baptysyng of chyldren was taught of Christ That Origen is of that iudgement that the baptyme of chylder came from the Apostels hys wordes vpon the epystle to the Romanes and vpon Iohan do clearly testyfy as hereafter I shall proue whē I shall come to the place where as ye alledge Orygen your owne selfe Now seyng that these noble learned men whych were so nere hand the tymes of the Apostles holde in theyr workes with the baptyme of infantes and saye that it came vnto vs from the Apostles what wyse man wyll rather beleue yow beynge so longe after the Apostles tymes then them whych were so long ago and so nere the tymes of the Apostels Ye haue therefore long and besely babled in vain holding without any autorytye and agaynst learnyng and authoritye that the Pope ordened fyrst the baptyme of infantes And so ye haue won nothyng sauyng that ye haue founde and made a rodde for your owne tayle I meane that I haue gotten and gathered of your assertyon and opynyon a good coniectural argument that the baptyme of infantes came from thapostles tymes For ye shewed me fyrste that Hyginus ordened the baptyme of infantes which Hyginus as I shall declare hereafter was but .xxxviij. yeares frō some of thapostles For Volaterane wryteth in hys boke called Anthropologia that Saint Ihon the Euangelyst lyued vnto the .lxviii. yeare after the passion of Christ hys wordes are these Ioannes longa senectute confectus 68. anno post Christi supplicium extinctus est And Christ was .xxxiiij. yeares olde when he suffred therefore Iohan beyng alyue .lxviij. after hys passyon was alyue in the 102. yeare after Christes byrth And Hyginus was 140. yeares after Christes byrth therfore Higinus and some of the apostles namely saint Iohn the Euāgelist were no more one frō another then xxxviij yeares Whereby thorow youre helpe I haue now proued that the baptisynge of yonge chyldren was vsed wythin .xxxviij. yeares of some of the Apostles tymes I haue also proued by good auctorytye that Hyginus dyd not orden the baptysynge of chyldren and that he onlye put and added to the baptyme of chyldrē chrisme godfather godmother wherfore the baptysyng of chyldren beyng before Higinusses tymes and seynge he seynge he was with in .xxxviij. yeres of some of the Apostelles tymes it is a probable and very lykelye thynge that the baptysyng of childer came vnto vs euen from the apostels who were but a very shorte tyme before Ye are disapoynted of your purpose whych thought to haue brought the baptysynge of spechles chylder into a great cōtēpt an vtter despysyng because it had ben as ye thought of the Popes ordenyng makyng yf ye had not bē proued an arrāt lier but ye are proued a lyer wher ye sayd that Hygynus ordened the baptim of infants and an argument of antiquite is gathered of the longe contynuaunce of chylders baptyme and of the long approbatyon of the same thorow oute all hole Christes churche which is more worthy to be admitted then your supersticious opinion whose author was that perilous heritike Pelagius whom in th ende of your boke ye bryng in right honorably for a wytnes to mayntayne your dyuelishe opinion But although Hyginus had ordened first that childer shuld be baptised yet shulde not their baptyme haue bene Popyshe for in the tyme of Hyginius the byshops of Rome had not yet vsurped any supremacie ouer other Byshops muche lesse ouer Kynges and Emperours Neyther hadde the byshops of Rome brought in the dyuelyshe doctryne wherefore theyr doctrine was hated and called popyshe and dyuelyshe In the tyme of Hyginus euery byshop was called Papa as euery prest in hygh Almony is called pfaff and in low Germany pape euē vnto thys day Wherefore the doynge of Hyginus shuld haue no more ben called popysh then the ordynaunce of any other byshopp that dwelt out of Rome ether in Asia or Aphrica How be it thankes be vnto God I haue had wytnes ynough to proue that the baptyme of yong chyldren was not ordened of Higinus and lo can the baptyme of chyldren in no wyse be called popysh as we call suche as yow Popysh whych at the last ester right Popishly knelyng toke the sacrament geuyng occasyon vnto all men to thynke that ye were a sterke ydolater and beleued that bread was turned into a God For your doyng was the ordinaūce of a lofty and a right Antichristian byshop of Rome whiche vsurped power both ouer all byshops and also ouer al Kynges and Emperours Although I haue with the rehersal of .vii. places of scripture sufficiently reproued your folyshe and monkish maner in dilaying of baptime your tyrannical tying it vp vnto certayne tymes and that your Cathechumeni with their yeares of probation are contrary to the vse of Christes primatiue church yet for to proue that youre dylaying of baptime whereupon ye wolde groūde your erroure that childer ought not to be baptised is agaynst the scripture and only the ordinaunce of men I wyll shew what men and what coūcels haue ordened all
your delayes that al men may perceiue easely that ye buylde not vpon Christ but vpon Popes men and councels Who wolde haue thought before this that catabaptistry wolde haue leaned vpon any suche foundacions Ye hadde wont to rattel and crake nothing but scripture scripture but now for lacke of scriptur ye make these councels and lawes of man your foundacion It is wryten in the Laodicen councel in the .xlv. Chapter of them that come to be baptised aboute the mydweke Non oportet post duas hebdomadas quadrage simae quenquam ad baptismum suscipi After twoo weakes of lente muste none bee receyued vnto baptyme In the same counsell it is wrytten of the rendrynge of the belief of them that shal be baptised in the .xxv. Chapiter They that shall bee baptysed must learne the Crede and vpon the thursdaye of the laste weke to ad or present them to the Byshop or elder The Latin wordes are these Baptizandos oportet fidei symbolum discere quinta feria ultimae septimanae uel Episcopo uel presbytero addere This counsel was holden in the tyme of Liberius the Bishop of Rome about the yere of our lord CCC ixiiij In the Gerunden cuncell in the third statute it was ordened Vt cathechumeni baptizentur die uel uigilia Paschae Pentecostes caeteris solemnitatibus tantum infirmi that is that the disciples or learners called Cathechumeni shuld be baptised on easter day or easter euen or witsōday or witson euē Vpō other solemne dayes let only them that are sycke be baptised This counsel was holden in the tyme of Hormisda Byshop of Rome in the yere of our Lord D.xiij Siritius byshop of Rome whiche lyued in the yere of our Lord CCC.lxxxix ordened in hys seconde decree that baptim shulde not be ministred but at Easter and Witsondaye The latin is this Statuit Siritius preterquam in Pascha Pentecoste baptismus non celebretur This was also ordened in the fourth councell of Cartage that they that were to bee baptised shulde shew theyr name and absteyne a longe tyme from wine and fleshe that they shulde haue handes layd vpon theyr heades and be oft examined and then receyue baptime The latin is thus in the .lxxxv chapter of the foresayd counsel Baptizandi nomen suum dent diu sub abstinentia uini carninm ac manus impositione crebra examinatione baptismum precipiant Here is the foundacion where vpon ye buylde your delaying denyall ye rather the blaspheming of the baptim of infantes Vpon these counsels and mens decrees are buylded your vnchristened Cathechumeni your deuelisshe delaying of baptime your tyinge vp of it to certayne tymes as to Easter and Wytsondaye Here is grounded the custome of dylayinge and dryuynge of of baptime whiche ye very lyinglye lyke a man past al shame sayde was in oure moste holy religion vsed seuen score yeres whē as al these autours and councellers whyche ordened these dylays were many yeres after the time of Hyginius who was aboute seuen score yeres after Christes natiuite How vnshamefacedly then haue ye assygned that custome of dylayinge of baptime vnto the tyme that went betwene Christes natiuite and Hyginus seynge that these dylayes was ordened CC. yeres and more after Christes byrth Why do ye refuse to fight with me with suche weapons as I brought into the fielde I brought in the sworde of Goddes worde to defende the baptyme of childer withall for I defended it only with the worde of GOD. But ye now wryting agaynst me fyght agaynst the baptime of chylder wyth no scripture but wyth customes wyth decrees councels ordynaunces of men the autoritie of the Donatistes Anabaptistes and Pelagians all open heretikes and worthelye condemned of Christes hole churche As for these wepons I fet not one strawby for all these can not preuayle agaynst the worde of GOD. Thynke you that when I haue defended my doctryne with scripture that your vnsauery reasons grounded vpon councels and men can confute my reasons grounded vpon the holy scripture Whosoeuer goeth aboute to confute scripture with councels and mens decrees and hys owne argumentes preferreth counsels and decrees before GOD and his worde and reckeneth hym selfe better then GOD. In my sermon at Thystelworth I resoned thus strongly armed with the authoritie of saint Peter in the .x. of the Actes of the Apostels There is nothynge that can hynder them to be baptised which haue the holy goste chylder haue receyued the holy goste as wel as olde men therfore there is nothynge to hynder them but they may be baptised as wel as olde folke ye to confute that chylder shulde be baptised brynge in agaynste my alleged scripture the longe custom in your moste holy church councels and decrees of Preestes and byshops wherefore ye prefer them before GOD and hys open scrypture and reeken mannes custome stronger then Goddes worde and man stronger then GOD for that doth euery man reeken stronger whyche can ouercome another Then ye confutynge my alledged scrypture mans doctryne haue a very euyll opinion agaynst GOD and his worde much lyke vnto the papistes whych destitute of scripture fought after thys maner ar ye do now Whereas ye holde that Where men and wemen of perfyt age are baptised all the three sortes of scolares take profite of the openynge and declaryng of baptyme but when as childer are baptysed none of them all for ye saye when men and wemen are baptised all receyue admonishemēt by which the good amend and theyr lyues and are saued the other knowynge that they stonde bounde styll to amende or to be condemned Ye aunswere me very fryarly lewdlye vnlearnedly and lyingly First it is playnly against al scripture and reason that he that lyueth noughtely and neuer intendeth to amend hys lyfe after that he is baptysed for of suche spake I shall bee anye thynge the better by the seynge of the baptyme of men and wemē namely the case put before that the thyrde sorte nether was christian in lyuynge nether intēded to lyue any christian lyfe Can the syghte of a Sacrament alone be it neuer so well minystred profite hym that neuer intendeth to profit Wyll the worke of seynge baptyme wrought make hym that intendeth no Godlynes be godlye Is not thys to saye that wheate sowen vpon a stone shal ryue the stoone and make it brynge furthe fruyte whether it wyl or no agaynste the nature of the stone So that ye saye wyttely and wyselye that it profiteth al the three sortes the is them of the perfitest sorte them that are vnperfit and desire perfection and them that nother are perfyt nor yet intende to come to any perfection Of the lyke foolyshnes is your saying that where as chyldern ar baptysed no man taketh profyt wherof of the chyldes baptyme or of the openyng and declarynge of our baptime which are baptysed alredy If that ye mene that in that congregatiō where as children are baptised the declarynge of the mystery and secretes of
infantes expressedly therefore chylderen ought not the baptysed If they be good argumentes then all the conclusiones that I gather are true and so ar ye a fals man and a perillons heretike When as ye say that By baptym alone is no saluation but by baptyme and preachyng I aske you whether ye meane hole baptyme that is bothe the inwarde and the outwarde baptym togyter or the outwarde baptyme a loue If ye meane of the inwarde baptym and outwarde bothe conioyned together ye hold an opē heresi agaynst the scripture for thus wrytethe the Apostell of CHRIST saynt Pet. j. Pet. iij. few sowles that is to wit eyght were saued in the arke throw the water to the figure where of baptyme at this tyme answering doth now lykewyse saue vs. Paul also the elect vessel of GOD gyueth vnto the right holy baptym clengyng and the hole man and also saluation Ephes v. husbandes loue your wyues as Christe hathe loued hys churche and gaue hym self for it that he myght hallow and clēge it by the bath of water thorow the word and Tit. iij. But after that the goodnes and loue of GOD oure sauioure towarde vs appered not of the workes that ar in the righteousnes which we did but accordynge vnto hys mercy saued vs throwe the bath of the new byrthe and the renewyng of the sprite Paule also graunteth that baptime is of suche effect that the receyuyng of it is the receyuing and puttynge on of Christ is not Christ saluation and doth not baptim bring Christ Paules wordes ar these As many of you as are baptised haue put Christ vpon you Then when as Peter doth expressedly gyueth saluation vnto baptim and Paule like wise your erroure is open and seene of all that haue any eyes to se withal The perfit baptim hath Christ it hath the holy gooste likewise for thei that ar rightly baptised haue the holy goste and Christ put vpō thē Is not this baptim able to saue alone wherin is Christ with his holy spirit if ye meane by this word baptim only the outward baptime I graunte you that by it commeth no saluation alone ye moreouer that it is no parte of saluation but that it is onely a signe a certification of our saluation But then ye shall in to right popistry for ye fall that of preachyng and baptyme meaning of outward baptime commeth saluation preachyng is a worke of mā in opening of goddes word and the outward baptim is an outward worke then if these twoo together bring saluation then workes bryng saluation How far are ye syr now from popistry whych call other men papistes farther from papistry then ye are nere vnto the verite Christ sayeth Mar. xvi He that beleueth and is baptised shall be saued but he sayeth not he that heareth the worde of god hath only the outward baptime layed vpon hym shall be saued ye haue be like authorite of youre woode spirite to make new textes of scripture and to bylde thereupon what ye lyst Other haue ye none If preaching baptim be the meanes to saue and damne the hole worlde by how proue you that baptime is ordened to damne men wythall let vs heare one word of scripture of you to proue this strange opinion withal But least any man shuld thinke that I reherse that ye neuer wrote I will write your awn wordes By baptime alone is no saluation but by preachyng baptim certaine it is that God is able to saue hys chosen Churche wythout thes meanes But thys is hys ordynary waye to saue and damne the whole worlde by namely by offerynge remyssion of synnes and baptime to all the worlde that thereby the beleuers maye be absolued from all conscience of synne and the disobedient and vnbeleuers bounde styll other to amende or to be damned for he that beleueth not is all redy damned The offeryng of remission of sinnes and of baptim is not the law whose office is to condēne but it is the glad tidinges whiche we cal the Gospel ye are so vnlearned and so foolyshe in your reasonyng that ye are vtterly vnworthy to be reasoned wythall so that it hath repented me ofte sence that I began to write that I troubled my selfe wyth such a bungler But leste your bablyng boosting shuld bringe any simple people out of the way I wyl not disdayne to opē your folishnes to bewray your abhominable heresies Saint Paul vnto the Romanes iij. sayeth by the law cummeth the knowlege of syn In the .iiij Capter he sayeth that the law worketh wrathe and in the seuenth chapter I haue not knowen sinne but throw the law so that it is the office of the law to shew syn and to condemne the worlde wherfore ye do against al scriptur to trāslate remoue the office of the lawe vnto the moste comfortable offeringe of remission of syn and to the most sure seale and signe of our saluatiō baptim is the ende or office of offering of remission of sinne is to saue make blessed for thei are blessed sayde Dauid whose sinnes ar forgiuen What is the Gospel or glad tidinges els but the offering of remission of synnes Did not Christ commaun hys disciples to preache repentaunce and that the kingdom of heauen was at hande dyd not the angel bring in the tydinges of peace was not remission of synne offered where peace was offered What other thyng did the Apostels els then offer remission of synne vnto theyr auditores Christe commaunded them to preache the Gospell and thys Gospel or gald tydinges was remission of synnes How can then the offerynge of the Gospell whyche was ordened to saue the worlde bee a meane to damne the worlde How can baptime whyche was ordened to bee an instrument of salmation be an instrument of damnation The offeryng of remission of synnes is the offerynge of an holsum medecine Baptime is as it were a confortatiue vsed to bee gyuen vnto the syk after purgations Who is he that hath the comon wyt that wyll saye yf a foolyshe syke man refuse an holsum medicine with a confortatiue and he die for lacke of medicine that the offerynge of the medicine wyth the confortatiue was the meanes whereby thys man came vnto hys deathe Yet doo ye thys whyle ye make the offerynge of remyssyon of synnes to bee the meanes whereby GOD dampneth and saueth all the worlde by If faith do iustifie as oft times ye graunt wyth open mouthe then doth infidelite condemne and it is the meane where by the worlde is condemned as Christ witnesseth he that beleueth not is condemned already Lo here is condemnation assigned vnto vnbeleue and nother to the offerynge of remission of sinne nother of baptime Then may it easely be spyed how vnlearnedly ye alleged thys text he that beleueth not is condemned already to proue that the offerynge of remyssyon of synnes and baptime is meanes bothe vnto saluation and condemnation namely when as Christe immediatly before shewed the meanes of saluation
oure baptyme profyteth nothynge vnto such men as the scripture calleth lytel ones that is lowlye in sprete and haue the conditions of yōge chylder ye holde playnly against this open text of scripture Declaratio sermonum tuorum illuminat intellectum dat paruulis The declaration of thy wordes lyghteneth and giueth vnderstāding to the lytle ones whervpon we may gather that those that are not lytel ones but stubborne withstanders can haue no profyt by the declaration of Gods word much lesse by the seynge of men and wymen baptysed If ye mene that where as chylder are baptysed that nother the chylde hathe any profyt by the baptym and offeryng vp of it vnto Christ nother they that offer it vp nother they that see the baptime ministred take any profyt therby ye speke agaynst the scripture For the chylder get Christes blyssynge yf he loue chylder yet as wel as he had wont to do and the offerers bryngers of childer vnto christ in doyng of a good dede profyt for he that helpeth a man to receyue a good turne in helpyng doth profit in godlynes and namely they that pray to the lord eyther for the bodely or gostly health of theyr neyghbour Did not both the bringers of the children vnto Christ and the chylder profyt also before Christes passion Is he wexed vngentler after his passion then he was before The chyrche at the baptisinge of chylder prayeth vnto God for the childe that it maye haue forgiuenisse of synnes and receyue the holy goste wyl God breke his promysse that he made vnto his churche Quicquid peticritis patrem in nomine meo dabit uobis What soeuer ye shal are my father in my name he wyll geue it The father and mother with the hole chyrche prayeth for the yonge chylde at the baptisyng of it other they profyt or God is false but he is true therefore ye ar a lyer whiche saye that where as chylder are baptised that nother the chylde nor any that ar there at the baptim and offer the chyld vnto Christe with theyr prayers profyt any thynge at al. What more profyt shal the seers of the baptym of men and wemen take thereby then the seers of the baptime of chyldern Seyng that all that is doone to olde folke is also doone vnto chylder the word of GOD as well al red and preched at childers baptim as at old folkes baptime they that are at the baptisyng of chylder profyt as muche as they that are at olde folkes baptym Where as the sygnes and Sacramentes are al one the worde of GOD is alyke preached there cometh vnto the herers and seers lyke profyt except GOD be a regarder of persons and be better vnto olde men then vnto chyldern whyles he graunteth profyt and grace to the seers of olde folkes baptyme and none at all to the seers of chylders baptyme but God regardeth no persons therfore ther is lyke profyt in seing of other of both Of lyke thyngs ought to be lyke iugement then when as baptym is all one in signification wyth cyrcumcysion and they that see chylder cyrcumcised haue as muche profyt by the seing therof as of the seing of old folke circumcised so the seers of the baptyme of chylder haue as muche profyt thereby as the seers of the baptyme of olde folke In the beginning of your boke ye saide that I rehersed the .iiij. tymes redyng of statutes in colledges to proue that yoing specheles childer might and ought to be baptysed whiche sayinge howe false lying it was I haue sufficientlye proued And nowe lyke a deuyll that for hys purpose turnethe hym selfe into all colours and figures here ye say that I applie the costom of readyng of the scolars statutes that infātes shuld haue the declaration of baptym preached vnto them These are your wordes ☞ Therfore to rede the statutes to infantes is of no exemple nor value but to them that be growen it is an occasion to get scolers ¶ Couche of thy conscyence yf thou haste any at all tell me whether thou knoweste in thy conscience or no that I rehersed and applied the reading of scolares statutes vnto the baptysyng of yong chyldern or that specheles chylder shoulde haue baptyme opened vnto thē by preachynge or els that I brought that custome furth in very deede to shew them that were my hearers amonge the which was not one specheles childe that it were as necessary for them to haue theyr baptime opened and declared by preachyng as it was necessarye for scolars to haue theyr statutes at certayn tymes to be redde among them If thou knouwest not this in thy conscience ether the deuyll hath blynded the wyth malice or thou art so vnlearned and folysh that thou art more worthy to haue a muk forke in thy hande then a pen to wryte agaynst any mā seyng the matter is so clearly set out without any rydles or parables If thou doest know in thy conscience that I rehersed this example nether to proue the baptyme of chylder wyth all nether that chyldren shulde haue baptyme declared vnto them and that onlye they that can vnderstand and the openynge of baptyme shoulde haue it declared to theym what deuyll art thou possessed withal which to defende thy folysh opinyon writest vtterly agaynst thy conscience But thys minisheth my meruelynge that I cal now to remembraunce whiche chaunced vnto me at Anwarpe I reasoned with one of your secte at Anwarpe who was learned in the Latyn tongue a doctor of phisicke and a greate Alchimiste when as we wete both chafed and heted with the long disputation he defending heresye and I confutynge thesame at lenght I toke hym with a shamfull lye and with suche a contradiction in his tale that he coulde not deny but that it was so But howe dyd he excuse hym selfe verelye thus It is wryten sayeth he in the xviij of the Apocalyps that we shuld handle the and such as thou art the whors chylder of Babylon with lyes cōtradictions and all other suche lyke for the reuēgynge of the lyes that ye haue made vnto vs in tymes past the wordes of Ihon sayeth he are these Reddidit illi sicut ipsa reddidit uobis duplicate ei duplicia secundum opera eius That is Rendre or gyue agayne vnto hyr as she hath rendred to you and duble the duble vnto hyr accordynge vnto hyr workes And when I alledged the scripture vnto him that the lying mought kylled the soule he answered that it was true in such as me that had no fayth but that it was not so in hym that had the true fayth and was of the true religion alledging this place of scripture for hym Si quid lethale biberint non nocebit eis yf they drynke any dedly poysō it shall not hurte them and expoundyng it thus there can no lyinge nether any other sin whiche is poyson vnto your soules hurt vs which beleue as we bo Terfore seyng that ye call me and al other that
defend the baptym of chylder papistes that is the chylder of the hoore of Babylon and separate your selfe both in the supper of our Lorde and also in baptyme and in the vnderstandyng of original sin from vs and make your selfe of an other religion it is no meruel that ye handle me euen so here in Englād as your brother catabaptist handled me in Anwerp And whete as men haue such conscience that they care not what they do so that it be done secretly vnto any mā of another religion whether it be yeoperdous for me and expediente for the rulers of this realm to haue such nere hand or no thē I reporte me vnto all wyse godly mē Much vayne bablynge and vnprofitable communication as vnworthy any aunswere do I pasouer and come vnto the place where as ye say that baptym is to my infantes for so do ye call them and vnbeleuers a vayn bare sygne vnfruitfull and vnprofitable except I wyll gyue and assygne vertue vnto the worke wrought Where as ye make all infantes myne because I take in hand tho defende theyr baptym I may a great dele be lesse ashamed of my poore and innocente infantes then ye maye be to defende the doctryne of your sedytions and mourderynge Anabaptistes which destroyed the noble citie of Munster in Wesphali and rose vp agaynst the Magistrates in Amsterdam and wan Swol not far from Dauenter and were about to haue destroyed Gronynge in West Freselande Let the innocentes be myne styll and let the factious catabaptistes be yours Let se who shal be more ashamed in the great daye of them that they defende But seynge ye wyll nedes make the infantes myne I wyll defende them as well as I can for as much as euery man is bounde to defende it that is hys My infantes are not vtterly withoute all faythe as ye meane callynge them vnbeleuers This wyll I proue by your owne maner of alledginge the scripture in the middes of your boke agaynste me What soeuer is not of fayth is synne nothynge that the infant doth or thinketh wheter it sukketh milke or drynketh bere or ale or choweth flesh as ye holde is of fayth for fayth is of heatynge and heatynge cōmethe by that worde of GOD then they the heare not the worde of GOD as chylder do not can do nothyng of fayth wherfore by your own alledging of the scripture the childe doth nothynge but it synneth in doynge what so euer it dooth for lacke of fayth But that they sin not in all thyng and that they ar not without all fayth I proue it thus They please GOD therefore they at not without al fayth for Paule sayeth without fayth it is impossible tho please GOD. That spechelesse chylder haue pleased GOD Iacob Hieremy the Prophete and Iohan the Baptist are wytnesses So ar also the chylder that Christ toke in his armes wytnesses of the loue that Christ bare vnto chylder Marke wytnesseth that Christe toke the chylder in to his armes and blyssed them If that he blyssed thē they pleased hym If they pleased hym they were not without faith ye do therfore the poore innocentes great wronge in callyng them vnbeleuers At the chylder vnbeleeuing Ye say yea then haue they that vnbeleeuinge and want of faythe ether of their first creation or by Adās fall yf that they haue it by their fyrst creation it is not true that God sayd that all thyng whych he had made was verye good Is an vnbeleuyng man verye good Is that good whych can not please God If that chyldren be vnbeleuyng by Adams fall then haue we found agayne orygynall synne which ye with your mayster Pellagius do vtterly deny Ye saye that they are vnbeleuyng and wythout faith but how proue ye that If ye say I se no workes yet in childrē therfor they haue no faith I axe yow whether ye are a beleuer or vnbeleuer when ye are a slepe and at al tymes whē ye do no good workes yf ye do beleue when ye are a slepe and at other tymes when ye do no good workes so maye chyldren haue faith although they be not yet come vnto the tyme of declaryng of fayth by theyr workes Is there any man so folish or so cruel that wyll call a yong gryfte of the fyrste yeres gryftynge fruytles and barrō whē as it can not for lacke of tyme age brynge as yet furth anye fruyte If that we can not call a tree vnfruytefull vntyll the tyme come of bryngynge furth of fruyte so ought ye not to call a chylde vnbeleuyng faithles vntyll he come vnto the time of declaryng his fayth I axe you Estne puer animal rationale an non Whether is a chylde a reasonable liuing thyng or no If ye graunt that he is an vnreasonable creature then ye make a chylde a brute beaste yf that a child be a reasonable creature yet can not for lacke of time and age vse reason so maye a chylde haue fayth and be called faythfull though for lacke of tyme and age it can shewe as yet no good workes whych are the tokens and fruytes of fayth If ye reason that they know not that they haue fayth therefore they haue no fayth I reason wyth you agayn chylder know not that they are redemed wyth Christes bloude shall we saye therfore that chyldren are not redemed with Christes bloud Chyldren know not that the promys of saluatyon belongeth vnto them shall we say therefore that the promys of saluatyō perteyneth not vnto chyldren Is not the heyre of landes heyre before he knowe that he is heyre So maye a chylde haue fayth and yet for lacke of age knowe not that it hath it Because ye alledge the scrypture hereafter generallye and delyuer it from all cyrcumstances ye must suffer me to reason wyth you after the same maner at this time Answer me to this argument Children are not already condēned therfore they do beleue for the scripture sayth he that beleueth not is condemned alredy Therfore ye must ether graūt that chylder do beleue or elles that they are already condemned Chylder also haue the holy ghost Is the holy ghost wythout fayth They haue all thynges that Christ hath for they are Christes he that spared not hys only sonne as Paule sayth but delyuered hym vp for vs and for chylder as well as for old men it is impossyble but that he gaue all thyng vnto chylder wyth Christ how can chyldren be faythlesse whych haue all that Christ hath Was Christ without fayth Now whether your I say or my argumentes are worthy more credence let them that are faithful men iudge indifferently But what yf I graunted you that chyldren had no fayth yet it dyd not folow that the infantes shuld haue no fruyte of theyr baptyme For our infantes are in as good a case as the infantes of the Iewes were in the same age that oure infantes are of But though they hadde bene wythout fayth yet had they receyued theyr cyrcumcysyon
Sacramente For Christ sayeth Accipite edite bibite facite in mei recordationem Take ye eate ye drinke ye and do ye thys in the remembrance of me Then when as the chylder can not receyue the Sacramēt and can not eat drynk nor do that in the supper that God requireth that is to eat drink in the remembraunce of hym it is mete that chylder be dyfferred from the supper vntyl they may and can eat and drynk and receyue the supper as Christ ordened it to be receyued And because baptim is a passiue Sacrament no man can baptise hym self but is baptise do◠an other childer may be as wel dipped in to the water in the name of Christ which is the outward baptym and as myche as one man can gyue an other euen as olde folke and when as they haue the promisse of saluation as well as old folk can receyue the signe of the same as wel there is no cause why that the baptyme of chylder shulde be differed CHRIST dyd not baptyse hymself but Iohan the baptist baptised hym In the second of the actes and the .x. where as manye were baptised no man baptysed hym felf nother do we rede in any place of the new Testament that any man baptised hym self then when as baptym is gyuen by other and the supper of the Lorde is taken of a man by hym self it foloeth not that baptym ought to be differred so longe as the supper ought to be differed Wee reade in the actes of he Apostels that all they that came into the felowshyppe of Christes churche entred in by baptym and dyd not cōmunicate streighte waye after they were baptised Allthough I grant with in a shorte tyme after they receyued the supper of the Lorde as many as were able to receuer it Then when as chylder perteyne vnto christes churche it is mete that they entre in by the same dore that olde folke enter in by then oughte they not to be holden out from the churche vntyll they may allso receiue CHRISTES supper Baptym is the putting on of CHRIST as Paule sayeth Quotquot baptizati estis Christum induistis As many of you as ar baptised haue CHRIST put vpon you Is it conuentent that the pore infantes shal be naked and want CHRIST vnput vpon them vntyll that they come to the .xiiij. yeare of theyr age Howe shall they come worthylye to Christes supper and haue not CHRIST for they garmēt Therefore they must fyrst put on Christe by baptyme and then afterward at conuenient tyme receyue the Lordes supper I shewed that water presupposed vnclenes in all that ar baptysed and I set the sygne of the water as an argumente agaynst thē of your sect which deny originall syn But ye saye that I haue proued nether of both vnlesse I proue that Christ ordeded that chylder shulde be baptised To proue that the water in baptyme signifyeth the impurite of them that are Baptysed Ananias sayde vnde Peter Exurge baptizare ablue peccata tua Ryse vp and be baptysed and washe away thy synnes saynt Paul calleth baptym the bathe of regeneration and the bath of water wherby the churche is made clene In all thes places ye hear mention of wasshynge and water and of scouryng by the water wherfore that water of baptysme signifyeth that they that are baptysed haue nede of washynge and are vnclene yf they be chyldern and haue committed no actuall syn then it folowethe that they are defyled with originall syn yf they be commede vnto perfyt age that then they ar spotted both with originall and actual synne The former part is proued The other parte I proue thus Baptym signifieth in all them that are baptysed that they are vnclene and haue originall syn but chyldern are baptised therfore the water signified in theyr baptym that they are gyltye of original syn seyng that they haue commytted no actuall as yet If ye saye that chyldern are vnworthlly baptysed therfore the water of theyr Baptyme condemneth them not of originall synne and wanteth the sygnyfication I answer that the vnworthynes of the receyuynge of the Sacramente hyndereth not the sygnification of it allthought it be both vnprofytable and also damnable to the receauer of vnworthelye When as a noughtye mane receyueth the Sacramente of CHRISTES bodye vnworthelye doth the brekinge of the bread leue of sygnifying that CHRISTES body was broken for that synfull and vnworthy receyuer Therfore baptym in all that ar baptysed betokeneth that they are gyltyl of originall syn at the leaste Where as ye saye that for lack of scripture I am faine to flye vnto rryginall syn to proue the baptym of chyldern I praye you what scripture haue ye broughte sence the beginninge of your boke to proue the contrary Whether I haue broughte any scripture for the probation of my opynion or no I reporte me vnto the readers of my sermon and of thys booke also Where as the commaundement is generall and perteyneth vnto an hole speciall kynd it perteyneth to euery one conteyned vnder the speciall kynde althoughe the particular be not expressedly named as in thys example if that all men be resonable lyuynge creatures then chylder are also resonable creatures because they are conteyned vnder the name of a man thoughe they are not expressed by name in the generall Or els yf that were not true howe shoulde ye proue that wemen shoulde be saued that wyues wydowes and maydens shoulde receyue the Lordes supper and be baptysed seynge that the apostels haue no expressed commaundement of GOD neyther the women shulde be baptysed nother be receyued vnto the supper of the Lorde Wherfore excepte ye wil exclude and shyt out wemen from the supper of the Lorde and from baptim because there is no expressed word to commaunde them to be baptised and to receyue Christus supper ye cā not shyt out ceylder from baptime For chylder are as well conteyned vnder thys worde nations as wemen bee in thys generall precepte teache all nations and baptyse them into the name of the father and the sonne and the holy ghoste If that ye aunswere that preachyng and Baptysynge be tyed together and they oughte alwayes to bee doone together I reade that Chryste sayde vnto hys Apostels Mar. xvi preache ye the Gospel vnto euery creature If thys worde creature do signifie here man then are the Apostels when as baptime is vnseperably ioyned with preachynge bounde to baptise all that they preache to and they are bounde to preache to all men therefore by youre reason they are bounde to baptise all men Chylder are men therefore the Apostels are bound to baptise chylder and to preache vnto chylder If that ye saye that preache the Gospell vnto all menne is to be thus vnderstande preache the Gospel vnto all men that can receyue the preachyng then is the lyke generall precept baptise all men so to be vnderstande that they are to be baptised whyche can receyue baptime But the childer of the Christians
in these wordes He that wyll beleue and be baptised shall be saued What wood spret taught you this folish philosophy that one cause shuld bring lurth two diuerse and contrary effectes as ar saluation condemnatiō It is a great maruell to se such great arrogantie as ye haue to be ioyned wyth so lytle knowlege But so are thei al that are blasted with the Anabaptistical sprit as you be If that I could haue made no other shyft when ye argued with me that al Turkes and Iewes were withoute origynall synne because they had no water offered vnto thē I might here by youre helpe in this place haue answered thus ye say that remission of syn and baptim is offered vnto all then when as baptim is not without water water is offred vnto al thē by your own graūt all haue originall synne whyche ye denied stoutly before because sum wanted the offeryng of water To that ye say the Gospel hath no powre vpon infantes and muche lesse sacramentes that therfore nother preachyng nor administration of sacramentes ar dew to infantes by the word of god I meruel what ye mean by hauyng power If ye meane by hauynge power ouer to belonge and to be profitable your sayng is twise false for both the word of God belōgeth vnto infantes presently by the reason of the promys whyche is made vnto thē in the worde and it is dew vnto thē against thei come to age as a chylder landes are dewe vnto him thoughe he can not inioye them afore he come to age that the administration of Sacramentes ar dew vnto chyldren the Sacrament of circumcisyon and the rayn bow are witnesses agaynst you and proue yow ar a fals a shameles lyer therfore who wyll beleue yow hereafter no mā but such as haue delyte in lyes and abominable heresies Youre conclusion agreeth as well with your antecedēt as thys argument doth folowe a staff standeth in the corner ergo a man rinneth and it is of such a fasshon made that I dowt whether it be more folyshe vnlearned or more malicious for it presupposeth that I brought in to proue that childer had originall synne a brushe when as made mention of a brush not to proue that chyldren had origynall synne but for a similitude after this maner Euen as whē one bryngeth a mā a brushe that is commed home from hys iorney it is a signe that his clothes ar dusty so when as water is offered vnto thē that ar baptised it is a token that they had nede of scouryng and clengyng and ar vncleue Nether dyd I holde that water dyd scoure the sowle but I shewed that the water betokened that the sowl of thē that were baptised had nede of scowryng Then let all christian and learned men iuge how learned and charitable is this your conclusion So that your brushe proueth the contagion of infantes as ruyche as your water and helpeth alyke to scoure the same ¶ After this your vnlearned and malitious conclusion ye begin a new mater feyn a sayng of your own braine as thoughe I had sproken it and them ye scourge me for your foolishe dawishe and vnlearned lyinge for after these my wordes Well it is good to remede a diseas in the beghinnyng and to stay hys course lest at lenght it grow ford far that it be past remedie or help It is spoken lyke a Phisition and that maketh yow to lay a playster of colde water to the synn of infantes so tymely But suerly out of dew tyme and other to parly or to late for they ar wors afterwarde ¶ Is not thys a prety fashion of confutyng for lack of scripture reason and learning to feyn lye and scof after thys manerye ar lyke to wyn but a few scolares that ar honest men after this maner All myghty God in the olde Testament knowinge that the infātes of his people wer sike in original syn gaue them the medicine of remissyon of synnes commāded that they shulde haue circumcision layde vpon them as a seale and token of goddis promised and fauour vnto them That all myghty GOD promised the chylderen of the Iewes remission of sinnes these wordes do testifi Genes xvij I wyll streynge then my cumnant betwene me and the and betwene they sede after the in theyr generationes with an euerlastyng cōnant that I may be a GOD vnto the and to thy sede Then to bee a God is to be a sauiour but he sayde he wolde be a GOD vnto the chyldren of the Iewes therfore he promysed that he wold be a sauiour vnto them So that the promyss of saluation belongeth as well vnto the chyldren as it perteyneth vnto theyr fathers It is expressedly declared in the same chapter that the loue of GOD was so great vnto chylderen that he not only graūted vnto chylderen saluation but also the seale and sygne of saluation the Sacracrament of circumcision as these wordes bear witnes Thys is my comnant whych ye shall kepe betwene yow and me and also betwen thy sede after the let euery male be circumcysed among yow But ye shal circuncyse the fleshe of your forskynne whiche shall be the sygne of the couenant betwene yow and me and they ought to be circuncysed that my couenant myght be in your fleshe If GOD be true as he can not befals there the yong chylderen obteyned it That GOD promised and that was remissyone of synnes whych was the promised blissyng and that GOD commandeth the sygne and seale of remission of synne to be layd vpon chyldern this is also certayn Then whē ay all myghty GOD the archephisiccon and heler of both body and soule began so tymely and erly to heale yong chyldern no godly man wyll mock Christes ministres while they lay vpon the infantes of the christianes the sygne of saluation of remission of sinnes after that almyghty God hath heled thē from originall syn as well as he heled the childer of the Israelites If that ye deny that the childer of the Israelites were healed ye must deny that God promysed to be a God vnto them If they were healed thē ar our children also healed by thesame physician as erly and tymely as the Iewes chyldren were healed seyng God loueth the Christianes chyldren as well as he dyd the Iewes chyldren and hys promis of helth and saluacion was as well made vnto our children as to the Iewes chylder All chylder ar infected with originall synne whiche if it were not taken away should turne them to damnacion then to offer vp chylder vnto Christ that they may receyue at the cōtemplacion of the prayers of the church and for the promis that God made vnto them remissiō of theyr originall vnclenenes is that to tymely don when as they ar conceyued in wykkednes and borne in synne But I know your meanyng well ye ar of that mynde that ye thynke that chylder haue no synne and that therfore ye reken that they nether nede goddis physik nor any seale of