that are contingent or such as do depend upon the will of man they have but conjectures and do often times lie and deceive us in both kinds for as natural things are variable so much more the will of man Porphyrius lib. de Resp. oraâ— cited by Parsons in his Resol pag. 62. Dub. This testimony of Porphyrius being an Heathen and a great enemy to Christianity is very considerable and experiâ—nâ—e shews it to be very true for Oâ—acles have deâ—eived many and we see that Astrologers can give no certain predictions concerning the weather which depâ—nds upon natural causes and therefore I desire you to sheâ— me if you can any Prophesies of Scripture that are more certain Firm. I shall begin with that of Abraham concerning his posterities inheriting the Land of promise of their servitude in a strange Land of their mighty deliverance 400 years before it came to pass you may for this compare Cen. 15.13.14 c. with Exod. 12. Second Iacob being in Egypt on his death bed propheâ—â—ed thus of his â—on Iudah that the Scepter should not depart from him until Shilo came which fell out accordingly at the birth of our Saviour at which time the Scepter was in the hâ—nd of a stranger Herod by name and then and not till then it finally departed from Iuda Third 'T was Prophesied of Iosias â—00 years before he was born that he should destroy the Altar at Bethel 1. Kings 13. which was exactly fullfilled 2. Kings 23. Fourth You may see how punctual the Prophet Isaiah is in fortelling the nativity the life the passion of our blessed Saviouâ— in so much that he writeth more like an Historian then a Prophet as also how he foretells the destruction of Hierâ—salem and the greivous Captivity of the Jews by and under the Babylonians and then the destruction of the Babylonians and the rebuilding of Hierusalem by Cyrus 200 years before he was born the same was foretold by Ieremy about a 100 years after Isaiah and these Prophecies were so famous and so certainly believed amongst the Jews in the time of their captivity that when the time of their expiration drew near Daniel thus writeth of himself In the first year of Darius I Daniel understood in the Scripture the number of the 70 years c. Dan. 9.1 Neither did the Jews only understand and believe this Prophecy but Cyrus himselfe an Heathen which was his great inducement to restore the Jews and rebuild the Temple at his own proper charges Ezra 1. And Heathen Historians confess as much Fifth The Prophecy of Daniel concerning the four great Monarchies is so clear and evident so distinctly described as if he had lived in them all Dan. 2. and Dan. 8. how also he foretold the coming and suffering of the Messias after 70 weeks cap. 9. many more of such Prophecies might be alleaged but these are abundantly sufficient to attest the divine authority of Scripture Dub. T is very true if you could prove there were ever such Prophets or Prophecys in the world Firm. What proof do you expect will you believe nothing but what you see with your own eies Dub. That were irrational if you can prove by a certain tradition that there were ever such Prophecies delivered by such men as you name I shall assent unto them Firm. This I shall perform first from the whole nation of the Jews which have delivered them from Father to Son down along for many generation do you think that a people so carefull and diligent in the keeping and transcribing their records could or would agree together upon no worldly interest at all yea even to the hazard of their lives and fortunes to abuse themselves and their posterity Dub. I confess 't is not very probable but have you any other proof for the certainty of these Prophecyes Firm. Yes From the Testimony of very Heathens 'T is said by Iosephus lib. 1 de Antiq. Iud. cap. 4. that the publick writings of the Syreans Chaldaeans Phâ—nicians Graeciâ—ns are sufficient to testifie the antiquity truth authority and certainity of Holy Scriptures if there were no other proofe in the world beside There is scarce a memorable passage in the Old Testament but 't is mentioned by some Heathen writer as the Creation of the world Noah's Flood the Confusion of Tongues the Children of Israels living in and coming out of the land of Egypâ— the writings of Moses the Babylonish Captivity c. as you may see in Euseb. Grotius de verit Christ. Relig. Parsons Resol Cap. 3. lib. 1. part 1. Dub. Indeed a Testimony from an adversary is beyond all exception I rest satisfied with what you have said for the Authority of the Old Testament have you any thing to say for the New more then what you have said in general for them both together Firm. Yes I have the miracles of our Saviour and his blessed Apostles wrought for the confirmation of what they taught acknoledged by Heathens Grotius de ver Chris. Relig. Besides if you assent to the Divine Authority of the Old Testament you must acknowledg the Divinity of the New which is for the most part nothing else but an explication of the Old and the history of those Prophesies now fullfilled which were delivered by the Prophets who lived in the time of the law You may add to this the miraculous preservation of both Testaments not withstanding the malice of persecuting Heathens who used all arts of cruelty to extinguish them the propagation of the Christian Religion into so many parts of the prejudicating world without yea contrary to all carnal force and worldly inteâ—est by a few simple unlearned men which if t was done without a Miracle was one of the greateâ—t Miracles that ever we read of To this may be added the opposition of many subtil Hereticks who never durst so much as question the Authority of the Scripture but rather betook themselves to their own false glosses that they might shift of those clear texts which made against them whereas it had been a more Compendious way to have utterly denyed them if their impudence had been so great as to oppose the general belief of those times wherein they lived Dub. Tho I am sufficiently convinced of the divine Authority of the Scripture and of the truth of those Miracles which were wronght by Christ and his Apostles for the confirmation of what they taught yet to remove all scruples that may be made against them I shall desire to be more fully satisfied in two exceptions that are urged by Antiscripturists 1. That they were no true Miracles 2. That we have no certainty that there were ever such persons in the world as Christ and his Apostles or that they ever wrought such mighty works as are recorded of them in the New Testament Firm. That there were such persons in the world as Christ and his Apostles that they wrought those Miracles which are mentioned in the History of them both Jews and Gentiles sworn
perjury were so frequently observed by some heathens that when Diagoras hearing a man for swearing himself in a Court of Judicature and being impatient to see that he was not presently thunder-strucken became an Atheist and because Sentence against so great an evill was not suddenly executed therefore the heart of this fool this wicked man was fully set in him about that great mischief to say there was no God Psal. 14.1 Eccl. 8.11 Dub. Some Pagans aâ—d false Christians have dared to take false Oaths The Jesuites whether they be Pagans or Christians I know not will swear anything even solemnly in Courts of Justice and therefore this argument impious meâ— dare not take a false oath therefore there is a Deity or some Supream power which they fear holds not for the antecedent is evidently fals but this is rational strange horrors and terrors of conscience and fearfull judgments have followed perjured persons tho no man knew they were so therefore there is some invisible superior power wheâ—ce such horrors and terrors and judgmentâ— proceed Frm. I do confess that there have been several perjured persons in former and are in these present times but for a full answer to this exception see what is replyed to another very like it Pag. 4. however I am content the argument should stand as you have proposed it strange horror and terrors of conscience and fearfull judgment have followed perjured persons c. which sufficiently proves what I intended and therefore I proceed Another argument very like to this or which is rather an addition to the former may be takâ—n from the feares and torments of an evil coâ—science even amongst the very heathens Nero haveing killed his Mother confessed that he was often troubled which her Ghost The wretched Caligula at the report of a thunder clap would â—un under his bed A thousand instances there are amongst heathen writers of wicked men labouring under the feares and terrors of their own coâ—science which Juvenal does describe to the life in one or two of his Satyrs What should be the reason that mere Pagans men having no knowledg of the true God or of his Severity against wickedness should be tormented with the sad prospect of some fearefull judgment attending upon their villanies tho never so secretly practised but the timor Numinis vindicantis the fear of divine vengeance A third argument may be drawn from the certainty that there are Devils evil Spirits together with their wicked Instruments Witches Magicians Sorcerers Conjurers which none but a foolish Atheist who will believe no further then his sight leads him can doubt of How frequently the Devil has appeared in this nation in times of gross ignoranceâ— and superstition and how he does so still to the poor ' Indians thâ—t worship him for their God is aboundantly manifest by the tradition of our fore fathers and the testimony of knowing Christians that have been in those parts What pranks and diabolical feats have been acted by Witches and Conjurers may be seen in those learned Authors that have wrot against them as Dr. Moor and many others And albeit the appearances of evil Spirits Witch-crafts c. are not now so frequent in this nation as heretofore in times of Popery and darke Ignorance yet does it not therefore folloâ— that all our forefathers were Melancholly Hypocondriacks deceived themselves and deceiving us with vain and groundless phansies but the true reason is this in times of ignorance and superstition the Devil appears more frequently to uphold his Kingdome over his vassals and to confirm them in their false worship but in times of knowledg and Gospel light the Prince of Darkness uses all his arts to render men Scepticks in Religion and of no Religion at all Atheists Infidels Prophane so that his very appearing would pull down his Kingdome which he exercises over these wretches who like Sadducees believe neither Angel nor Spirit nor any thing further then they can see Now the Prince oâ— the Air is too subtil to confute this Groâ—s errour in his best servants by any or often apparitions The last reason I shall take from that allowed distiâ—ction that is betwixt good and evil better and worse which could not be unless there were some measure of mans actions and this measure must be a law either written in mans heart or instituted and written in bookes or tables and thiâ— law must have a law maker which must be able both to know reward and punish not only mans words and actions but his very thoughts which none can do according to the exact rules of Justice but he that is infinite in knowledg and wisdom that is none but the omniscient God Besides all this there are degrees in good and evil for of things that are good some are better then others of things that are evil some are worse then other Now these degrees of good and evil take their rise and fall by their aproaching to or declination from that which is summum bonum or the chiefest good so that if there were no best or cheifest good there could be no better or worse no good or evil at all therefore there must be one infinite good To conclude this first discourse seeing the inclination of all People to believe a God the instinct of nature to confess it the excellent fabrick of the world to declare it the force of wicked mens consciences to fear it the Custom of civil nations to adore it do abundantly prove that God is yea doubtless that there is a God that judgeth the earth what a monstrous Creature is the fool Atheist that saith in his heart there is no God Dub. Though I was abundantly satisfied with your former reasons against Atheism yet I heartily thank you for these which you have here added which though they are more largely treated on by several learned Authors yet as you have breifly summed them up they are more suitable to men of ordinary capacities and of short discourse who loose themselves in long treatises and are apt to forget what they have read in the beginning of them before they come to the middle and are more tired with the length then pleased with the soundness and excellency of such discourses Sir being fully satisfied with your reasons against Atheism I humbly beseech the Almighty Creatour of heaven and earth to bless them unto me to preserve me from all prophane irreligious Courses from practical Atheism which by its own Natural propensity and the just judgment of the most holy and righteous God is the great cause of that which is Speculative and Dogmatical DIALOGVE II. against Antiscrpturisme Firm. HAving given you such satisfaction about the being of God as hath fully removed all your doubts concerning that first and great principle if you please we will discourse of the other that is like unto it the Divine Auâ—hâ—rity of the holy Scripture for upon these two depend the great and weighty business of Religion He that is steadfast
in the beliefe of the being of God and the truth of his moâ—t sacred word if he be true to these great fundamentals must of necessity be both an Orthodox and a serious Christian. Dub. If you can give me as good satisfaction in the divine Authority of Scripture as you have in the being of an eternal God Creatour of heaven and earth you will performe a work of greatest Charity but I fâ—ar of as great difficulty Firm. Happily you may perceive some difficulty in it but if you will make use of your reason and lay aside all prejudicating opinions which cheifly arise from that contrariety which is betwixt mens carnall corrupt hearts and the holy and pure word of God I hope by his blessing whose Cause I plead to perswade you to give your full assent to this other great principle of Christianity Dub. I shall endeavour to weigh your reasons in the ballance of an even unbiassed judgment and to receive them aâ—imo defaecato with a mind free from the dregs of sensuality interest partiality or prejudice Firm. Upon the confidence to find this ingenuity in you I shall present you with these following reasons 1. You do belive that there is an omnipotent God Creatour of heaven and earth that he made all things therein contained that being infinite in wisedome and knowledg he made all these things for some good end that he hath ordered them to act and worke in such a manner as is suitable to their several natures that in as much as they have their being facultys operations from their all wise and Glorious maker they are bound by the law of Creation to do homage and service to him that made them Dub. All this I grant to be very rational Firm. These things being granted that not to mention other Creatures as man had his being reason and understanding from Almighty God so is he bound to serve him in that way and manner which is agreeable to mans excellent nature which must be therefore a reasonable service which all the world as well Pagans as Jews and Christians call Religion which according to all sober people comprehends duties of piety as praier praises and sacrifices duties of temperance sobriety and chastity duties of honesty justice righteousness and all morality Dub. There is nothing more evident then that as there is a most wise and holy God that made man endued him with excellent facultys of reason and understanding so there is a debt and duty owing from man to God his maker which all the world calls Religion and no people in the world were ever so barbarous saies Cicero as to be destitute of all Religion yea there is such a tendency in the nature of man where t is not utterly extinguished by brutish sensuality that rather then he will worship no God at all he will bow down to a Sock or a Stone so that clear it is if there be a God the Creatour and man by him created there must of necessity be a Religion Firm. Truly nothing does more necessarily follow as Du-Plessis has well observed then a God a man a Religion But if Almighty God did make man to worship him sure he gave him some rules for that worship some law to direct him in this great concern of his Soul Dub. I cannot deny it and that this law was no law written in paper or engraven in tables of stone but the law of nature written in mans heart which made Tertullian utter these excellent words o aniâ—a naturaliter Christiana ô Divine Soul that art naturally a Christian. We see that the fire ascends the water moves towards the Center birds make their nests Beasts feed their young not by any outward positive law but by the unerring hand of nature and may not man that has a natural inclination to serve his maker perform this service without any institued law or prescribed Canon Firm. Ther 's no disputing against experience you see he does not and when you shall embrace and understand the holy Scriptures you will see he cannot by reason of his fall from that â—erfect staâ—e in which he was first made whereas the inferior Creatures kept their Station Dub. I confess there are different Religions in the world opposite one to another so that all of them cannot be in the right way of woâ—shiping God some of necessity must be false and erroneous Firm. If of all religions in the world all are not in the right how will you know which is the true Religion which is the false This you cannot discern by any imprinted law or light of nature unless excited by Art and industry which is in some measure common to all men that are not natural fools and Madmen stupid inconsiderate wretches or debauched bruits whose reason is â—unk down into gross Sensuality Dub. T is very true if the meer light of nature were sufficient to point out the true Religion I am not able to say why so many Sober men in several parts of the world who have not debauched their Reason and judgment should so strangely differ about it Firm. I believe you cannot nor yet why Jewes and Pagans did offer up bloody Sacrifices to these Deitys they worshipped Does any light of nature make it rational that the Gods should be pleased with the blood of poor innocent Beasts or is it rational to imagine that they should delight in humane â—acrifices Dub. I must acknowledge I do not understand how the light of nature should teach men that such Sacrifices should please the Gods I have oftâ—n wondered at this part of worship used by Jews and Gentiles pray Sir give your selfe the trouble of informing me whence this practise sprang Firm. You are satisfied that it had not its original from the light of nature for albeit some kind of Sacrifices as Prayers praises alms-deeds and it may be the offering of the Fruits of the Earth Deo datori to God that gave them might spring from that light yet the Sacrificing of Beasts was never shewed to Jew or Gentile by natures Candle but was after the fall of man appointed by Almighty God to prefigure the Grand propitiatory Sacrifice which was to be made by the blood of him that was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world which the Devil who is tearmed Gods Ape taught his servants the Gentils to imitate who had the shell but not the kernel the shadow but not the substance the outward rite but not Christ crucified represented by it Dub. I do acknowledg that the Sacrificing of beasts came not from the light of nature and you seem to make it probable that 't was from divine revelation and positive institution Firm. You will be better satisfied when you shall consider That the founders of all Religions in the world did pretend to Revelations Numa Lycurgus Mahomet c. which the devil taught them to do in imitation of Moses and the rest of the holy Prophets who spake as they were moved by
of the greatest wickednesse under a pretence of Religion as is very obseâ—vable in all heathen mysteries which indeed were very mysteries of iniquity abominable Idolatry not to be named to modest eares Dr. Stillingfleets Orig. Sac. lib. 2. Cap. 10. 4. True miracles differ from diabolicall impostures in three particolars 1. in the manner of their working 2. their number 3. the quality of â—hings wrought by them 1. The impostares of Satan were done by a great deal oâ— pomp and Ceremony magical rites charâ—es and medicines what Christ did was with a words speaking yea by the very touch oâ— his garmâ—â—â— 2. For their number those Satanicall jugliâ—gs were comparatively very few there were not many that were cured by the devill and his instruments but Christ cured whole multitudes and that not in the Revestryes of the teâ—ple where fraud and imposture might be easily suspected but in the presence of the people Arnoâ—ius's objection against the Gentiles is very rationall what wonder is it to shew one or two cured when thousands lie continually in your temples languishing for want of cure which 〈◊〉 eâ—en weary your God Esculaâ—ius with prayâ—rs and teares but could have no helpe â—rom him with all their importunities 3. For the quality of thingâ— pretended to be done by miracles the cures among the heathens were some slight things in Comparison of those performed by Christ what heathen jugler did ever open the eyes of any man that was born blind make the dumb to speak the lame to walke or raise the dead by a words speaking or by a touch of the hand See Dr. Sâ—illingflâ—ets book before cited There is one other argument made use of by the learned Dr. Hammond in his tract of the reasonablenesse of Christian Religion which â— friend caused me to remember for the confirmation of the truth of this divine Revelation This learned man proves the mission and doctrine of Jesus Christ from that high testimony whâ—ch God the father gave him by a voice from heaven coming out of the midst of thunder which way of Revelation was known to the Jews by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the daughter of a voice and by this God did three times give testimony unto Christ 1 immediatly after his baptism 2. at his transâ—iguration 3. a little before his death and all in the pâ—esence of sufficient witnesses this testimony of God the father given three severall times dâ—d â—ully ratify the doctrine of Christ contained in the scriptures of the New Testament God gave â—he very same testimony to Moses and hâ—s doctrine and â—hat in the sight and audience of many thousands Exod. 19.16 Thiâ— Moâ—â—s often reminds the people of especiallâ— Deut. 4.32.33 where he tells them that never any people did heare the voice of God out of â—â—e midst of the fire as they had done and thiâ—â—ay oâ—â—eâ—â—lation seems to be so suitable to the 〈…〉 of almighty God and so pecuâ—â—â—r â—o hiâ— that the devill who in other things 〈◊〉 Aâ—e never attempted to imitate God in tâ—◠〈◊〉 nor do I believe he was ever aâ—â—e Gâ—â— hâ—ving restrâ—ined him by â—his omnipoâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 â—nd reâ—erved this way of Revelation peâ—â—â—◠〈…〉 Dâ—b 〈◊〉 Discoâ—rse hath been so rationall that 〈…〉 as â—gâ—ippâ—â— almost perswaded to be a 〈…〉 buâ—â—â—together such as you are as to 〈◊〉 â—wo great principleâ— of Christianity concerniâ—g â—he being of God and the Divine Authority â—f â—oly Scripture and methinks I see all false Religâ—â—ns fall flâ—t on their faces before these great â—ruâ—hs as Dagon did before the Arke Firm. No marviell for he that doth firmly believe that God is and that the Scripture is his word must needs abominate those false worships which are â—o extreamly contrary to his divine nature and his most sacred writ but seeing you are so well perswaded of these principles I shall not trouble you with any more reasons for the confirmation of them onely if you shall hereafter meet with any scoffing Atheist or infidell that shall deny either of them you may for conclusion of all presse upon him this dilemma or forked argument Either 't is true there is a God and the Scripture is his word or 't is not true suppose these things be not true yet thou believest them to be so thou art onely in an errour for this short span of time but what if they prove undoutedly true and thou dost not believe them to be so then thou art eternally damned now what a madness is it for any man for the avoiding of a seeming temporary errour to come within the danger of everlasting damnation Dub. This argument might startle any Atheist and make him consider with himselfe how sad his Condition will be if these things be so as solid and undenyable reasons do demonstrate and yet he should live and die an infidell O what will become of such an one unto all eternity I am full of wonder and amazement that seeing there are such convincing reasons against Atheism and infidelity that there should be any such Creatures upon the face of the earth when certainly there are none such in hell for the devill believes and â—rembles Firm. You will cease to wonder when you shall rightly consider the certain reasons of those grosse errours which are 1. Drollery and foolish jesting which renders men inconsiderate and mindlesse even in the affaires of the world much more in the things of eternity a man that is given to Droll and jest is uncapable of any serious businesse 2. Many men are men of short discourse they do not understand the force of an argument by reason of the weaknesse of their discursive faculty which is altogether rusty for want of use exercise and ingenious education though in the booke of nature the eternall power and God-head of the Almighty be wrote in large Characters yet every one cannot Read in that booke no more then he that never went to schoole can read the Primer halfe psalter or any book of the faireâ—t print Dub. This is true of many simple and illiterate men that are very brutes not at all to be distinguished from the beasts that perish but by the erect figure of their bodies their Rational soules mean while being sunke downe into mere sensuality such as have not God in all their thoughts they trouble not themselves to think of him either that he is or is not these digenerate Creatures do not concern themselves in matters of Religion but I hope you wilâ— not say that the wittâ— of the time are such ignorant Animals Firm. I shall not doubt to affirm it and that for these reasons 1. You may observe that these witty men are persons of no serious or solid judgments especially in things of highest concernment they are such as spend their time in idleness Drollery vain Recreations so that albeit the Lord has given them those two great bookes to read in that of nature and the holy scripture yet they vouchsafe not to read or meditate upon
infirmities is the same Strong Handsome Healthy Man that he was when at twenty five or thirty years old Dub. Thô I have sometimes much reverenced the Church of Rome for her antiquity yet now I begin to doubt that there are many diseases in the body of that Church many wrinkles in her face which were not from the beginning but not withstanding those infirmities 't is the same true Church as 't was at the first plantation as the old decrepite man is the same man that ever he was for substance Firm. I deny not but that the Church of Rome is in some sence the same it first was in respect of divers Articles it holds but in respect of those gross errours it now maintaines 't is no more like what it was then the old decrepite diseased man is like what he was in his younger dayes Dub. Your comparison is very good and apposite to the present Church of Rome which past dispute is full of dangerous and desperate diseases as I in part do apprehend I pray you proceed to my other motive Firm. The Church of Rome is not so universal as her disciples boast of neither in respect of place or time 1. 'T is the observation of a learned man that if the world were divided into 30 parts 19 of them are heathens 6 Mahometans and 5 Christians of which the Papists are not the one halfe as Mr. Breirwood in his Enquires does demonstrate 2. As to the universality of time the Church of Rome cannot deduce her present tenents from the beginning of Christianity through the several ages or Centuryes that it has continued a Church from the first preaching of the Gospell I deny not but that 't is the same for purity of Doctrine as once it was is most false for the antient Church of Rome never taught worshiping of images praying to Saints that monstrous transubstantiation halfe Communion Praier in an unknowne tongue and many more Groundless fopperies against Scripture the general consent of fathers common sence and reason Dub. All this I am inclined to believe but how could these errours creepe into a Church which did so punctually observe the traditions of their forefathers what the Church of Rome now believes and teaches it received from the Church that was in the next age before it that from the Church next before it and so quite down to the Apostles times as the Author of the Dialogues betwixt the Vnckle and the Nephew hath most learnedly demonstraâ—ed Firm. Truly very learnedly even as Zeno proved there was no locall motion you have heard how Diogenes confuted him by an ocular demonstration were not the Scribes and Pharises great pretenders to a Strict observation of the traditions of their fathers And yet we know how grosly they had corrupted the law of Moses as is evident by our Saviours confutation of them Mat. 5. and in severall other places Dr. Crakanâ—thorp and other Learned prâ—â—â—stants do evidently shew the beginning the progress of the Corruptions of the Church of Rome the manner of their spring and Growth but Suppose we cannot punctually tâ—ll the beginning and progress of such and such an errour shall we therefore believe it to be no errour you walk sometimes in the fields 't is evident to your eyes that the Grasse aâ—d graine do grow though you do not see them move at all sometimes you visit a friend that is sick of a languishing consumption you see by infallible symptoms that your friend is in a desperate Condition will you not believe him to be so because you cannot tell the time when or the manner how his disease came upon him Dub I cannot be so unreasonable and by what you have said my third reason falls to the Ground for the present Church of Rome has no agreement with the primitive but is extreamly opposite to it in the points before named besides many others I pray let me hear what you can say against their unity for they seem to be firmly united under one infallible head the Pope Firm. Truely Sir they do but seem so for they are miserably divided in the great fundamentall of their faith their infallibility and are not they very unjust to us to exact our beliefe of that which they themselves know not where to find for some of them tell us 't is fixed to the Popes chair some say 't is to be found in a Generall Councell otâ—â—rs believe it to be in neither but in both united together others would perswade us that 't is in the whole body of the Church so that if you seek after this pretty knack of infallibillity you will be abused as young apprentices are used to be in great Cittys and corporations who in waggery are sent from shop to shop for a penyworth of Ell-broad Packthred or a pound of stock-fish Tallow or a Lefthanded Shuttle after these poore novices have been sent from one end of the Citty to the other they returne home without such ridiculous Commodities and are sufficiently exposed to laughter and derision There 's scarce a Controversy in all Bellarmin's voluminous workes wherein he recites not the different opinions of the Roman Catholicks among themselves insomuch that this great Cardinals workes were not to be bought in Rome as Sir Edw Sandyes reports in his Europa speculum because he had so imprudently discovered the nakednesse of his mother in point of unity To say nothing of the contentions betwixt the Thomists and Scotists Ochamists c 't is pleasant to see how sweetly the Dominicans Franciscans Iesuites Molinists Iansenists Regulars and seculars agree together Though a laté Pope durst be so bold as to decide a Controversy for the Molimists against the Iansenians and so that which was none before very luckily became an article of Faith such is the Popes omnipotent Power that he can create Articles of Faith out of that which was a pure noâ—-entity a very nothing in the primitive times yet I heare that the Iansenists are so saucy as to continue very Iansenists still notwithstanding his holinesses inâ—allible determination Dub. I see there is no such unity in the Church of Rome as they bragg of I desire to heare what you can say against the Sanctity of their Doctrine Firm the Sanctity of their Doctrine referrs to that of Faith and Manners for that of Faith which is briefly comprehended in the Apostles Creed or any other Doctrinall poynt contained in holy Scripture expressly or by good consequence deduced from thence by the generall consent of Fathers we allow of but as for popish additions of new atticles by Pope Pius the 4. and the councell of Trâ—nt that are against Scripture and can never be justified by the generall consent of the ancient Doctors of the Church we reject as false and consequently not Holy this I suppose you will demâ—nsâ—rate when you please to give me the reasons which made you forsake the present Church of Rome As to their Saâ—ctity of manners their
is certain that aâ—prophane carless performing of Divine service is a very great sin and a necessary cause of irreligion and practical Atheism one exception I had allmost forgott which concerns Choristers who are said to be for the most part very untoward Children Firm. First This cannot be denyed but the reasons are first negligence in the Musick Masters whose chiefest care it is to teach them to Sing and the end why they Sing namely to set forth the Praises of their Creator neither are they so careful to instruct them how to behave themselves reverently and devoutly at the worship and service of God Secondly Some of them are not set to the Grammer School where upon they squander away a great part of their time in vain sports and idleness which is the Mother of all villany and wickednss Thirdly But the chiefest reason of all is that our Choristers are commonly the Children oâ— mean Parents who for the most part are very ignorant in the great matters of Religion and extreamly negligent in the concerns of their own and their Childrens Souls Now Deans and Chapters are necessitated to make choise of such poor Children because the better sort of people disdain to have their Children brought up in that noble Science of Musick which is their gross ignorance besides their scorn and contempt of this Science they misconceive that if they should send them to the Musick School it would hinder them in their Grammer learning which might easily be prevented by imploying those hours only at Musick which are spent in foolish insignificant sports and pastimes which as I am inform'd is the practise in some places beyond Sea where their youths spend much of the afternoons in Musick and Dancing Training Mathematicks and such like manly and profitable exercises which conduce both to the health of the body and benefit of the understanding Dub. I perceive that those exceptions against Deans and Chapters and Cathedral service are not so substantial as once I conceived them to be If you please we will now proceed to those which I have heard urged with much earnestness against â—et forms of Prayer and in particular against the Liturgie of the Church of England Firm. Most willingly I pray you favour me with the recital of them Dub. 'T would be to much trouble and to little purpose to mention all that I have heard seing many of them are very frivolous and not worthy of a serious answer those that seem to be the most material are First that they are imposed by mans Authority Secondly they stint the Spirit Thirdly they are cold and dead forms our Spirits are not affected and quickned by them as by conceived and extemporary Prayers Firm. First whatsoever is imposed upon us by mans Authority contrary to the word of God is utterly unlawfull but set Forms taken out of â—ods word are not contrary to that word especially when not only the very matter of them is contained in Holy Scripture but the very words and phrase 'T is a strange peice of nonsence that what is in it self lawfull and laudable should cease to be so because 't is commanded by our Superiors True indeed that things in themselves lawfull being in their own nature but indifferent if commanded as necessary and intrinsically holy are upon that account unlawfull and repugnant to Christian liberty but more of this when we shall diâ—course about Ceremonies Secondly That the Spirit is stinted by a set Form and that Reading of Prayers out of a Book cannot be praying by the Spirit To this I reply That if their were any truth in these exceptions how comes it to pass that â—e have so many set Forms of Prayer and thanksgiving in Holy Scripture How do set formâ— of Prayer more stint the Spirit then set Forms of Psalms for Singing Yea does a set Form of Prayer more stint the Spirit then the extemporary conceptions of the Minister limit and stint the Spirit of the Congregation to whom they are upon this account in the nature of set Forms When these queries shall be rationally answered I shall through away all set Forms which have been used by the â—hristian Churches for above 1400 years Besides those of the Presbyterian perswasion allow'd them as lawfull in their conferences with the Bishops anon after his Majesties restauration As to the other part of the other exception that reading of Prayers out of a Book cannot be praying by the Spirit this to those who understand the true meaning of that Phrase is a most frivilous cavill for setting aside the extraordnary gift of prayer to pray in or by the Spirit denotes first the making of our prayers according to the mind of the Spirit exprest in the Scripture as may appear Col. 3.16 Secondly to pray by the Spirit is to pray by that principle of grace wrought in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and enabling us to every good duty as well as to prayer Thirdly to pray by the Spirit is when the Spirit do's stir up our hearts to this Holy duty working in us good desires and motions quickning our faith and fervency whereby our hearts minds spirits go along with out Tongues and Words utterd either in a set Form or by our extemporary expressions which is usually practized by knowing Christians in their Closset devotions Dub. I confess I am not able to shew why set Forms of Prayer should stint the Spirit more then set forms of Singing and I am perswaded that praying by the Spirit signifies no more then the assistance of the holy Spirit quickning and stirring us up to and in Prayer whereby our hearts and spirits are fixed in that holy duty joyning and going along with the Tongue and Voice but truly I find by experience that my Spirit is more stirred up by a Prayer that is new which I never heard before being lively deliver'd then by a common Form read out of a Book Firm. This is the chiefest reason â—hich renders men such admirers of extemporary Prayers and so opposite to set forms their own experience tels them that they are more taken with such Prayers then with common Forms read out of a Book whiâ—h phanciful experience no wise man will plead against reason and judgment it being very deceitful and the issue of a very common corruption and humane infirmity which inclines us to be more taken with what is new then with what we have often heard especially when 't is deliver'd in a lively tone with pleasing actions and gesticulations of the Body and without Book though for substance and soundness what is read be infinitely before it Pray Sir answer me but this one question whether are your affections more stir'd up at the reading of some portion of Scripture by the Minister or at a good Sermon delivered from the Pulpit Dub. I confess I am much more affected my affections are more wrought upon by a good Sermon deliver'd with life and action then at the reading of the best Chapter