prophane nouelties of heresies Had they knowne of this infallible Iudge should wee not haue heard of him in this so proper a place and as it were in a cause belonging to his owne Court Nay doth not the writing it selfe of such bookes shew that this mattter was wholly vnknowne to Antiquitie For had the Church beene in possession of so easie and sure a Court to discouer and discard heresies they should not haue needed to taske themselues to finde out any other But the truth is infallibilitie is and euer hath beene accounted proper to Christs iudgement And as hath beene said all necessarie Truth to saluation hee hath deliuered vs in his Word That Word himselfe tells vs shall iudge at the last day Yea in all true decisions of Faith that Word euen now iudgeth Christ iudgeth the Apostle sits Iudge Christ speakes in the Apostle Thus Antiquitie Neither are they moued a whit with that obiection That the Scriptures are often the matter of Controuersies For in that case the remedie was easie which Saint Augustine shewes to haue recourse to the plaine places and manifest such as should need no interpreter for such there bee by which the other may bee cleered The same may be said if sometimes it be questioned which bee Scriptures which not I thinke it was neuer heard of in the Church that there was an externall infallible Iudge who could determine that question Arguments may be brought from the consent or dissent with other Scriptures from the attestation of Antiquitie and inherent signes of diuine authoritie or humane infirmitie but if the Auditor or Aduersarie yeeld not to these such parts of necessitie must needes be laid aside If all Scripture be denied which is as it were exceptio in iudicem ante litis contestationem Faith hath no place onely Reason remaines To which I thinke it will scarce seeme reasonable if you should say though all men are liers yet this Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his detâ—rminations for hee cannot erre No not if all men in the world should say it Vnlesse you first set downe there is a God and stablish the authoritie of the bookes of holy Scripture as his voyce and thence shew if you can the warrant of this priuiledge Where you offiâ—me the Scriptures to be the law and the rule but alone of themselues cannot bee Iudges if you meane without being produced applied and heard yee say truth Yet Nicodemus spake not aâ—isse when hee demanded Doth our law iudge any man vnlesse it heare him first hee meant the same which Saint Paul when hee said of the high Priest thou sittest to iudge me according to the law and so doe we when wee say the same Neither doe wee send you to Angels or God himselfe immediately but speaking by his spirit in the Scriptures and as I haue right now said alledged and by discourse applied to the matters in question As for Princes since it pleased you to make an excursion to them if wee should make them infallible Iudge or giue them authoritie to decree in religion as they list as Gardiner did to King Henry the eight it might well bee condemned for monstrous as it was by Caluin As for the purpose Licere Regi interdicere populo vsum calicis in Coena Quarè Potestas 〈◊〉 summa est penes Regem quoth Gardiner This was to make the King as absolute a Tyrant in the Church as the Pope claimed to bee But that Princes which obey the truth haue commandement from God to command good things and forbid euill not onely in matters pertaining to humane societie but also the religion of God this is no new strange doctrine but Calums and ours and S. Augustines is so many words And this is all the Head-ship of the Church wee giue to Kings Whereof a Queene is as well capable as a King since it is an Act of authoritie not Ecclesiasticall Ministery proceeding from eminencie of power not of knowledge or holinesse Wherein not onely a learned King as ours is but a good old woman as Queene Elizabeth besides her Princely dignitie was may excell as your selues confesse your infallible Iudge himselfe But in power hee saith hee is aboue all which not to examine for the present in this power Princes are aboue all their subiects I trow and Saint Augustine saith plainly to command and forbid euen in the religion of God still according to Gods Word which is the touchstone of good and euill Neither was King Henry the eight the first Prince that exercised this power witnesse Dauid and Salomon and the rest of the Kings of Iudah before Christ And since that Kings were Christians the affaires of the Church haue depended vpon them and the greatest Synodes haue beene by their Decree as Socrates expresly saith Nor did King Henry claime any new thing in this Land but restored to the Crowne the ancient right thereof which sundry his predecessors had exercised as our Historians and Lawyers with one consent affirme The rest of your induction of Archbishops Bishops and whole Clergie in their Conuocation house and a Councell of all Lutherans Caluinists Protestants c. is but a needlesse pompe of words striuing to win by a forme of discourse that which gladly shall bee yeelded at the first demand They might all erre if they were as many as the sand on the sea shoare if they did not rightly apply the rule of holy Scriptures by which as you acknowledge the externall Iudge which you seeke must proceed As to your demand therefore how you should be sure when and wherein they did and did not erre where you should haue fixed your foot to forbeare to skirmish with your confirmation That though à posse ad esse non valet semper consequentia yet aliquando valet frustra dicitur potentia quae nunquam dueitur in actum To the former whereof I might tell you that without question nunquam valet and to the second that I can verie well allow that errandi potentia among Protestants be euer frustra This I say freely that if you come with this resolution to learne nothing by discourse or euidence of Scripture but only by the meere pronouncing of a humane externall Iudges mouth to whom you would yeeld your vnderstanding in all his determinations if as the Iesuites teach their Schollers you will wholly deny your owne iudgement and resolue that if this Iudge shall say that is blacke which appeares to your eyes white you will say it is blacke too you haue posed all the Protestants they cannot tell how to teach you infallibly Withall I must tell you thus much that this preparation of minde in a Scholler as you are in a Minister yea in a Christian that had but learned his Creed much more that had from a childe knowne the holy Scriptures that are able to make vs wise to saluation
are matters of Faith For both Faith hath to doe with them and they are fetched by discourse from the first Principles holden by Faith whence our whole Religion is called by Saint Iude the Faith once deliuered to the Saints And the least error in them by consequence ouerthrowes the same principles whence they are deduced That makes some to mooue attention in their Readers to say The questions are not about small matters but of the principall Articles of Religion euen about the foundation As Cuâ—aeus whom he cites saith the question is of two Articles of Faith First of that which teacheth that in Christ two natures are vnited Secondly of the Article He ascended into Heauen Why doe not both sides agree to these Yes But one side fetches arguments against vbiquitie from these places and thereupon saith the question is about these Articles perhaps also chargeth the other to denie them Hee cites Pappus writing thus Agitur inter nos de Omnipotentia Dei c. The controuersie betwixt vs is about the Omnipotencie of God The personall vnion of the two natures in Christ. The communication of properties The glorious body of our Sauiour c. Loe againe euery place of argument or defence is made the matter of Controuersie Out of these and such like confessions on either side my namelesse Aduersarie will needes enforce with great pompe and triumph what thinke yee That such sanctified men this is his scoffing language goe not together by the eares for Moon-shine in the water Againe That all those Myrmidonian fights and bloudie encounters bee not de lanâ Caprinâ aut de vmbrâ asini Why who said they were I will set downe here my wordes that you may iudge of the conscience of this man and haue with all the substance of my answere to this obiection And what if some outragious spirits on each side transâ—ported with passion in their oppositions haue vsed most bitter and vnbeseeming speeches to their Aduersaries and sometimes haue shewed each other small humanitie are you so simple as not to discerne betweene the choller of some few opinionate men and the consequence of their opinions Haue you forgotten Saint Hierome and Ruffinus deadly foe-hood which was rung ouer the world or Epiphanius and Chrysostomes or Victors and the Greeke Bishops which proceeded so farre about a trifle that hee excommunicated them which is little lesse I thinke then to condemne to the pit of Hell And yet if I should put it to your iudgement I am perswaded you would grant they held all truth necessarie to saluation For you must remember Pope Boniface had not yet coyned the new Article of the Faith that I mentioned before What shall I speake of Saint Paul and Barnabas which grew to such bitternesse and that about a very little question of conueniency that though they were sent out together by the Holy Ghost they brake off companie These be humane passions which wisedome would we should pittie when they grow to such extremities vpon so small cause rather then from their outrage to gather there is iust cause to encrease Doe we not see that euen naturall brethren doe sometimes defie one another and vse each other with lesse respect then strangers Now from hence would you conclude they bee not brethren and hearten them on and say to the one that sith his halfe brother is not so neere to him as he with whom he is thus at oddes hee must fall out worse with him You should well so deserue the hate of God for a make-hate betweene brethren These were all my wordes set downe in answere to his obiecting our owne contentions and condemning each other to proue that therefore we could not hold continuitie with the ancient Church of England from which we dissented much more I held as you may perceiue that neither amongst our selues nor from our predecessors wee disagree in any truth necessarie to saluation Hee makes me to say our dissentions are about Moone shine and de vmbrâ asini de laâ—â caprinâ and trâ—fles and matters of no consequence To returne to you good Master Waddesworth let men auouch as confidently as they will touching their owne positions Est de Fide Nâ—hil certius apud Catholicos and of their contraries crie out They are Heretikes renew ancient heresies race the foundation denie the Articles of the Creede Gods â—â—â—ipoteney c. all because themselues by discourse can as they thinke fasten such things vpon them A sober Christian must not giue heede to all that is said in this kinde These things must be examined with right iudgement and euer with much charitie and patience remembring that our selues know in part and prophesie in part In a wordâ— this should not haue so much disquieted you Nor yet that which you adde That euery one pretends Scripture Best of all saith Saint Chrysostome For if wee should say we beleeue humane reasons thou mightest with good reason 〈◊〉 troubled but when as we receiue the 〈◊〉 and they bee simple and true it will 〈…〉 thing for 〈◊〉 to iâ—dge c. And to what purpose indeed serues the facultie of â—â—â—son perfected and polished with learning wherefore the supernaturall light of Faith wherefore the gift of God in vs Ministers conâ—erred by the imposition of hands but 〈◊〉 which side handles the Word of God deceitfully which sincerely But here againe Each side arrogates the Holy Ghost in his fauour What then If wee our selues haue the anointing we shall be able as we are bidden to trie the spirits whether they bee of God or no For wee will not bâ—leeue them because they say they haue the Spirit or cannot bee deceiued but because their Doctrine is consonant to the principles of heauenly Truth which by the writings inspired by himselfe the Holy Ghost hath grauen in our hearts Which writings are well acknowledged by you to be the Law and Rule according whereunto in iudgement of Religion we must proceede CHAP. III. Of the want of a humane externall infallible Iudge and Interpreter AS to that you say did about all trouble you the want of a certaine humane externall infallible Iudge to interpret Scripture and define Questions of Faith without error What if you found not an externall humane Iudge if you had an internall diuine one And hauing an infallible Rule by which your humane Iudge should proceede why should you trust another mans applying it rather then your own in a matter concerning your owne saluation But iâ— God haue left vs no such externall Iudge if Antiquitie knew 〈◊〉 if Religion neede none it was no iust motiue to leaue vs that you could finde none amongst all those Sects which 〈…〉 And how much lesse if you haue 〈…〉 amended your selfe where you are which we shall consider by and by I say then first that to make this your motiue of any moment it must be shewed that God hath appointed such a Iudge in his Church Let that appeare out of some
THE COPIES OF CERTAINE LETTERS WHICH HAVE passed betweene SPAINE and ENGLAND in matter of RELIGION Concerning the generall Motiues to the Romane obedience Betweene Master IAMES WADESWORTH a late Pensioner of the Holy Inquisition in Siuill and W. BEDELL a Minister of the Gospell of Iesus Christ in SVFFOLKE LONDON Printed by William Stansby for William Barret and Robert Milbourne 1624. TO THE MOST HIGH AND EXCELLENT PRINCE PRINCE CHARLES I Should labour much in my excuse euen to mine owne iudgement of the highest boldnesse in daring to present these Papers to your Highnes if there were not some releeuing circumstances that giue mee hope it shall not be disagreeable to your higher goodnesse There is nothing can see the light which hath the name of Spaine in it which seemes not now properly yours euer since it pleased you to honor that Countrie with your presence And those very Motiues to the Romane obedience which had beene represented vnto you there in case you had giuen way to the propounding them are in these Letters charitably and calmly examined Betweene a couple of friends bred in the same Colledge that of the foundation of Sir WALTER MILDMAY of blessed memorie whom with honor and thankfulnesse I name chosen his Schollers at the same election lodged in the same Chamber after Ministers in the same Diocesse And that they might bee matchable abroad as well as at home attendants in the same ranke as Chaplaines on two Honorable Ambassadors of the Majestie of the King your Father in forraine parts the one in Italie the other in Spaine Where one of them hauing changed his profession and receiued a pension out of the holy Inquisition house and drawne his wife and children thither was lately often in the eyes of your Highnesse very ioyfull I suppose to see you there not more I am sure then the other was solicitous to misse you here These passages betweene vs I haue hitherto forborn to divulge out of the hope of further answer from Master Wadesworth according to his promise though since the receipt of my last being silent to my selfe he excused him in sundrie his Letters to others by his lack of health Nor should I haue changed my resolution but that I vnderstand that presently after your Highnesse departure from Spaine hee departed this life Which newes though it grieue me as it ought in respect of the losse of my friend yet it somewhat contenteth me not to haue beene lacking in my endeauour to the vndeceiuing a well-meaning man touching the state of our differences in Religion nor as I hope to haue scandalized him in the manner of handling them And conceiuing these Copies may be of some publike vse the more being liâ—ted vp aboue their owne meannesse by so high patronage I haue aduentured to prefixe your Highnesse name before them Humbly beseeching the same that if these reasons be too weake to beare vp the presumption of this Dedication it may bee charged vpon the strong desire some way to expresse the vnspeakeable joy for your Highnesse happy returne into England of one amongst many thousands Of your Highnesse most humble and deuoted seruants W. BEDELL THE CONTENTS 1. A Letter of Master Wadesworth contayning his Motiues to the Romane obedience Dated at Seuill in Spaine April 1. 1615. printed as all the rest out of his owne hand-writing pag. 1. 2. Another Letter from him requiring answere to the former from Madrid in Spaine April 14. 1619. pag. 16. 3. The answere to the last Letter Dated Aug. 5. 1619. pag. 17. 4. A Letter from Master Wadesworth vpon the receipt of the former From Madrid Dated Oct. 28. 1619. receiued May 23. 1620. pag. 23. 5. The answere to the last Letter Iune 15. 1620. pag. 25. 6. A Letter from Master Wadesworth from Madrid Iune 8. 1620. pag. 29. 7. A Letter of Master Doctor Halls sent to Master Wadesworth and returned into England with his marginall notes pag. 30. 8. A Letter returning it inclosed to Master Doctor Hall pag. 36. 9. A Letter sent to Master Wadesworth together with the Examination of his Motiues Octob. 22. 1620. pag. 36. 10. The Examination of the Motiues in the first Letter pag. 39. The heads of the Motiues reduced vnto twelue Chapters answering vnto the like figures in the Margint of the first of Master WADESWORTHS Letters Chap. I. OF the Preamble The Titles Catholike Papist Traytor Idolater The vniformitie of Faith in Protestant Religion pag. 39. Chap. II. Of the contrarietie of Sects pretended to be amongst Reformers Their differences how matters â—f Faith Of each pretending Scripture and the holy Ghost pag. 44. Chap. III. Of the want of a humane externall infallible Iudge and Interpreter The obiections answered First that Scriptures are oft matter of controuersie Secondly that they are the Law and Rule Thirdly that Princes are no Iudges Fourthly nor a whole Councell of Reformers The Popes being the Iudge and Interpreter ouerthrown by reasons And by his palpable misse-interpreting the Scriptures in his Decretals The style of his Court His Breues about the Oath of allegeance p. 50. Chap. IIII. Of the state of the Church of England and whether it may be reconciled with Rome Whether the Pope be Antichrist PAVLO V. VICE-DEO OVR LORD GOD THE POPE the Relation de moderandis titulis with the issue of it pag. 72. Chap. V. Of the safenesse to ioyne to the Romane being confessed a true Church by her Opposites Master P. Wottons peruersion printed at Venice The badge of Christs sheepe pag. 82. Chap. VI. Of fraud and corruption in alledging Councels Fathers and Doctors The falsifications imputed to Morney Bishop Iewell Master Fox Tyndals Testament Parsons foure falshoods in seuen lines A taste of the forâ—eries of the Papacy In the ancient Popes Epistles Constantines Donation Gratian The Schoolemen and Breuiaries by the complaint of the Venettan Diuines The Father 's not vntoucht Nor the Hebrew Text. pag. 91. Chap. VII Of the Armies of euident witnesses for the Romanists Whence it seemes so to the vnexpert Souldier The censure of the Centurists touching the Doctrine of the Ancients Danaeus of Saint Augustines opinion touching Purgatorie An instance or two of Imposture in wresting Tertullian Cyprian Augustine p. 108. Chap. VIII Of the inuisibilitie of the Church said to bee an eâ—asion of Protestants The promises made to the Church and her glorious Titles how they are verified out of Saint Augustine falsly applied to the whole visible Church or representatiue or the Pope pag. 118. Chap. IX Of lack of vniformitie in matters of Faith in all ages and places What matters of Faith the Church holds vniformely and so the 〈◊〉 Of Wicliffe and Hus c. whether they were martyrs p. 12â— Chap. X. Of the originall of Reformation in Luther Câ—luin Scotland England Whether King Henrie the eight were a good head of the Church Of the Reformers in France and Holland The originall growth and supporting of the Popes Monarchie considered pag. 122. Chap. XI Of
lacke of Succession Bishops true Ordinations Orders Priesthood The fabulous Ordination at the Nags-head examined The Statute 8. Elizabeth Boners sleighting the first Parliament and Doctor Bancrofts answere to Master Alablaster The forme of Priesthood inquired of pag. 139. Chap. XII Of the Conclusion Master Wadesworths agonies and protestation The protestation and resolution of the Author and conceipt of Master Wadesworth and his accompt pag. 158. The Copies of certaine Letters which haue passed betweene Spaine and England in matter of RELIGION Salutem in Crucifiâ—o To the Worshipfull my good friend Mr. WILLIAM BEDEâ—â— c. Master Bedell MY very louing friend After the old plaine fashion I salute you heartily without any new fine complements or affected phrases And by my inquirie vnderstanding of this Bearer that after your being at 〈◊〉 you had passed to Conâ—tantinopâ—e and were returned to Saint 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 and with health I was exceeding glad thereof for I wish you well as to my selfe and hee telling mee further that to morrow God willing he was to depart from hence to imbarke for England and offering me to deliuer my Letters if I would write vnto you I could not omit by these hastie scribled lines to signifie vnto you the continuance of my sincere loue neuer to be blotted out of my brest if you kill it not with vnkindnesse like Master Ioseph Hall neither by distance of place nor successe of time nor difference of Religion For contrarie to the slanders raysed against all because of the offences committed by some wee are not taught by our Catholike Religion either to diminish our naturall obligation to our natiue Countrie or to alter our morall affection to our former friends And although for my change becomming Catholique I did expect of some Reuilers to be termed rather then prooued an Apostata yet I neuer looked for such termes from Master Hall whom I esteemed either my friend or a modester man whose flanting Epistle I haue not answered because I would not foile my hands with a Poeticall Rayler more full with froth of Wordes then substance of Matter and of whom according to his beginning I could not expect any sound Arguments but vaine Flourishes and so much I pray let him know from me if you please Vnto your selfe my good friend who doe vnderstand better then Master Hall what the Doctors in Schooles doe account Apostasie and how it is more and worse then Heresie I doe referre both him and my selfe whether I might not more probably call him Heretike then he terme me at the first dash Apostata but I would abstaine from such biting Satyres And if he or any other will needes fasten vpon me such bitter termes let them first prooue that in all points of faith I haue fallen totally from Christian Religion as did Iulian the Apostata For so is Apostasie described and differenced from Heresie Apostasia est error hâ—minis baptizati contrarius fidei Catholicae ex toto and Haeresis est error pertinax hominis baptizati contrarius â—idei Catholicae ex parte So that hee should haue shewed first my errors in matters of Faith not any error in other Questions but in decreed matters of Faith as Protestants vse to say necessarie vnto saluation Secondly that such errors were maintayned with obstinate pertinâ—cy and pertinacy is where such errors are defended against the consent and determination of the Catholik Church and also knowing that the whole Church teacheth the contrarie to such opinions yet will persist in them and yet further if there bee any doubt he must manifest vnto me which is the Catholique Church Thirdly to make it full Apostasie he should haue conuinced mee to haue swarued and back-slidden as you know the Greeke word signifies like Iulian renouncing his baptisme and forsaken totally all Christian Religion a horrible imputation though false nor so easily prooued as declaymed But I thanke God daily that I am become Catholique as all our Ancestors were till of late yeeres and as the most of Christendome still be at this present day with whom I had rather bee mis-called a Papist a Traytor an Apostata or Idolater or what he will then to remayne a Protestant with them still For in Protestant Religion I could neuer finde vniformitie of a settled faith and â—o no quietnesse of conscience especially for three or foure yeeres before my comming away although by reading studying praying and confeâ—ring I did most carefully and diligently labour to finde it among them But your contrarietie of Sects and opinions of 〈◊〉 Zwinglians Caluinists Protestants 〈◊〉 Cartwrightists and Brownists some of them damning each other many of them auouching their Positions to be matters of Faith for if they made them but Schoole questions of opinion onely they should not so much haue disquieted mee and all these being so contrarie yet euery one pretending Scriptures and arrogating the Holy Ghost in his fauor And aboue all which did most of all trouble me about the deciding of these and all other Controuersies which might arise I could not finde among all these Sects any certaine humane externall Iudge so infallibly to interpret Scriptures and by them and by the assistance of the Holy Ghost so vndoubtedly to define questions of Faith that I could assure my selfe and my soule This Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his determinations of Faith for he cannot erre in those points And note that I speake now of an externall humane infallible Iudge For I know the Holy Ghost is the Diuine internall and principall Iudge and the Scriptures be the Law or Rule by which that humane externall Iudge must proceede But the Holy Scriptures being often the Matter of Controuersie and somtime questioned which be Scriptures and which bee not they alone of themselues cannot be Iudges and for the Holy Ghost likewise euery one pretending him to bee his Patron how should â— certainly know by whom he speaketh or not For to Men we must goe to learne and not to Angels nor to God himselfe immediately The Head of your Church was the Queene an excellent notable Prince but â— Woman not to speake much lesse to be Iudge in the Church and since a learned King like King Henrie the eight who was the first temporall Prince that euer made himselfe Ex Regio jure Head of the Church in spirâ—tuall matters a new strange Doctrine and therefore iustly condemned by Caluin for monstrous But suppose hee were such a Head yet you all confesse that hee may erre in matters of Faith And so you acknowledge may your Archbishops and Bishops and your whole Clergie in their Conuocation-house euen making Articles and Decrees yea though a Councell of all your Lutherans Calâ—â—â—nists Protestants c. of Germanie France Engiana c. were all ioyned together and should agree all which they neuer will doe to compound and determine the differences among themselues yet by your ordinarie Doctrine of
most Protestants they migâ—t in such a Councell erre and it were possible in their Decrees to be deceiued But if they may erre how should I know and be sure when and wherein they did or did not erre for though on the one side â— posse ad esse non valet semper consequentia yet 〈◊〉 valet and on the other side 〈…〉 potentia quae nunquam ducitur in actuâ— So that 〈◊〉 neither in generall nor in particular in puoâ—â—que 〈◊〉 priuate in head nor members ioynely nor â—euerally you haue no visible externall humane infallible Iudge who cannot erre and to whom I might haue recourse for decision of doubts in matters of faith â— pray let Master Hall tell me where should I haue fixed my foot for God is my witnesse my soule was like Noah Douâ— a long time houering desirous to discouer land but seeing nothing but moueable and troublesome deceiueable water I could find no quiet center for my conscience nor any firme foundation for your faith in Protestant Religion Wherfore hearing a sound of harmonâ—e and consent that the Catholique Church could not erre and that onely in the Catholique Church as in Noahs Arke was infallabilitte and possibilitie of saluation I was so occasioned and I thinke had important reason like Noahs Doue to seeke out and to enter into this Arke of Noah Hereupon I was occasioned to doubt whether the Church of England were the true Church or not For by consent of all the true Church cannot erre but the Church of England head and members King Clergie and People as before is said yea a whole Councell of Protestants by their owne grant may erre ergo no true Church If no true Church no saluation in it therefore come out of it but that I was loath to doe Rather I laboured mightily to defend it both against the Puritanes and against the Catholiques But the best arguments I could vse against tâ—e Puritanes from the Authoritie of the Church and of the ancient Doctors interpreting Scriptures against them when they could not answere them they would reiect them for Popish and fâ—ye to their owne arrogant spirit by which forsooth they must controll others This I found on the one side most absâ—rd and â—o bâ—eede an Anarchy of confusion and yet when I come to answere the Catholique Arguments on â—he other side against Protestants â—rging the like Authority and vniformity of the Church I perceiued the most Protestants did frame euasions in effect like those of the Puritanes inclining to â—heir priuate spirit and other vncertainties Next therefore I applied my selfe to follow their opinion who would make the Church of England and the Church of Rome still to be all one â—n essentiall points and the diffâ—rences to be accidentall confessing the Church of Rome to be a true Church though sicke or corrupted and the Protestants to be deriued from it and reformed and to this end I laboured much to reconcile most of our particular controuersies But in truth I found such contrarâ—eties not onely betweene Catholiques and Protestants but euen among Protestants themselues that I could neuer settle my selfe fully in this opinion of some reconciliation which I know many great Schollers in England did fauour For considering so many opposite great points for which they did excommunicate and put to death each other and making the Pope to be Antichrist proper or improper it could neuer sinke into my braine how these two could be descendent or members â—ound nor vnfound participant each of other Rather I concluded that â—eeing many of the best learned Protestants did grant the Church or Rome 〈…〉 true Church though 〈…〉 And contrarily not onely the Catholiques but also the Puritanes Anabaptists Brownists c. did all denie the Church of England to be a true Church therefore it would be more safe and secure to become a Romane Catholique who haue a true Church by consent of both parties then to remaine a Protestant who doe alone plead their owne cause hauing all the other against them For the testimony of our selues and our contraries also is much more sufficient and more certaine then to iustifie our selues alone Yet I resisted and stood out still and betooke my selfe againe to reade ouer and examine the chiefest controuersies especially those about the Church which is cardo negotij and herein because the Bearer â—taies now a day or two longer I will inlarge my selfe more then I purposed and so I would needes peruse the Originall quotations and Texts of the Councels Fathers and Doctors in the Authors themselues which were alleadged on both parts to see if they were truely cited and according to the meaning of the Authors a labour of much labor and of trauell sometime to finde the Books wherein I found much fraud committed by the Protestants and that the Catholiques had farre greater and better armies of euident witnesses on their sides much more then the Protestants in so much that the Centurists are faine often to censure and reiect the plaine testimonies of those Ancients as if their new censure were sufficient to disaucthorize the others auncient sentences And so I remember Danaeus in Commentarijs super D. Augustin Enchirid ad Laurentium Where Saint Augustin plainely auoucheth Purgatory he reiects Saints Augustines opinion saying hic est naeuus Augustini but I had rather follow Saint Augustins opinion then his ceâ—sure for who are they to controll the Fathers There are indeede some few places in Authors which prima facie seeme to fauour Protestants as many Heretiques alleadge some texts of Scriptures whose sound of words seeme to make for their opinions but being well examined and interpreted according to the analogie of faith and according to many other places of the same Authours where they doe more fully explaine their opinions so they appeare to be wrested and from the purpose In fine I found my selfe euidently conuinced both by many Authorities and by many Arguments which now I doe not remember all nor can here repeate those which I doe remember but onely some few arguments I will relate vnto you which preuailed most with me besides those afore mentioned First therefore I could neuer approue the Protestants euasion by Inuisibility of their Church For though sometime it may be diminished and obscured yet the Catholique Church must euer be visible set on a hill and not as light hid vnder a Bushell for how should it enlighteâ—â—nd teach her children if inuisible or how should Strangers and Pagans and others be conuerted vnto her or where should any finde the Sacraments if inuisible Also the true Church in all places and all ages euer holds one vniformitie and concord in all matters of Faith though not in all matters of ceremony or gouernment But the Protestants Church hath not in all ages nor in all places such vniforme concord no not in one age as is manifest to all the world and as Father Parsons proued against Foxes martirs Wickliffe Husse and the resâ— ergo the
This I presse that all those Writers and Councels and amongst them Pope Leo the second accursing Honorius did not then hold that which by Pighius and the Iesuites is vndertaken that the Pope is infallible Euen the Councell of Basil deposing Eugenius for obstinately resisting this truth of the Catholike faith That the Councell is aboue the Pope as an Heretike doth shew the sense of Christendome euen in these latter times how corrupt soeuer both in rule and practice And because you make this infallible Iudge to be also an infallible Interpreter of holy Scripture how happens it that Damasuâ— Bishop of Rome consults with Hierome about the meaning of sundrie Texts of Scripture when it seems himselfe might haue taken his pen and set him downe quickly that which should haue taught both him and the whole Church not onely without danger but euen possibilitie of error Sure wee are little beholding to the diligence of our Ancestors that haue not more carefully registred the Commentaries or because they haue had for sundrie Ages small time to write iust Commentaries the expositions which in their Sermons or otherwise the Bishops of Rome haue made of holy Scripture A worke which if this Doctrine were true were more worth then all the Fathers and would iustifie that blasphemie of the Canon Law where by a shamefull corruption of Saint Augustine the Decretals of Popes are inrolled amongst the Canonicall Scriptures I am alreadie too long in so plaine a matter yet one proofe more which is of all most sensible Being admonished by this your conceit of an infallible Interpreter I chanced to turne ouer the Popes Decretals and obserued the interpretation of Scriptures What shall I say I finde them so leud and cleane beside the purpose yea oftentimes so childish ridiculous both in giuing the sense and in the application that I protest to you in the presence of God nothing doth more lothe me of Poperie then the handling of holy Scripture by your infallible Interpreter alone Consider a few of the particulars and especially such as concerne the Popes owne authoritie To iustifie his exacting an oath of fealtie of an Archbishop to whom he grantâ— the Pall is brought our Lord Iesus Christ who committing the â—are of his Sheepe to Peter did put too a condition saying Sid diligis me pasce oues meas Christ said if thou louest me feede my sheepe Why may not the Pope say If you will sweare me fealtie you shall haue the Pall. But first hee corrupts the Text Christ said not If thou louest mee Then Christ puts not Peters loue as a condition of feeding but feeding as a proofe and effect of his loue And if the feeding of Christs sheepe were sought loue to him and them might suffice to be professed or if he would needs haue more then Christ required to be sworne What is this to the oath of fealtie Straight after to the obiection that all oathes are prohibited by Christ nor any such thing can bee found appointed by the Apostles after the Lord or in the Councels he vrges the wordes following in the Text Sweare not at all quod ampliâ—s est à malo est that is saith hee Euill compels vs by Christs permission to exact more It is not euill to goe from the Popes obedience to condemne Bishops without his priuitie to translate Bishops by the Kings commandement See the place and tell me of your Interpreters infallibilitie Treating of the translation of Bishops or such as are elected vnto other Sees hee saith That since the spirituall Bands is stronger then the carnall it cannot be doubted but Almightie God hath reserued the dissolution of the spirituall marriage that is betwixt a Bishop and his Church to his owne iudgement alone charging that whom God hath â—oyned man seuer not For it is not by humane but rather diuine power that spirituall marriage is dissolued when as by translation or cession by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome whom it is plaine to bee the Vicar of Iesus Christ a Bishop is remoued from his Church An admirable interpretation of the Text Quos Deus coniâ—nxit by which the Pope not onely challengeth that which is proper to Gods iudgement onely as hee saith viz. to dissolue the bond of spirituall wedlock but because that is the stronger of â—arnall it seemes also when it shall please him The anointing of a Prince since Christs comming is translated from the head to the shoulder by which Principalitie is fitly designed according to that which is read Factus est principatus super humorum eius for signifying also whereof Samuel caused the shoulder to be set before Saul Who should euer haue vnderstood these Texts if your infallible Interpreter had not declared them But this is nothing yet to the exposition of those Texts which the Pope interprets in his answere to the Emperor of Constantinople as Subditi estote omni humanae oreaturae propter Deum c. He tells him that Saint Peter wrote that to his owne Subiects to prouoke them to the merit of humilitie For if he had meant thereby to lay the yoke of subiection vpon Priests it would follow that euery seruant were to rule ouer them since it is said omni humanae creaturae After Iris not barely set downe Regi praecellenti but there is put betweene perhaps not without cause tanquam And that which followes ad vindictam malefactorum laudem vero bonorum is not to bee vnderstood that the King or Emperor hath receiued the power of the sword vpon good and euill men saue onely those who vsing the sword are committed to his iurisdiction according to that which the Truth saith They which take the sword shall perish with the sword For no man ought or can iudge anothers seruant since the seruant according to the Apostle standeth or falleth to his owne Lord. For the loue of God consider this interpretation and compare it with Saint Chrystoâ—e vpon Rom. 13. Nay doe but reade the Text attentiuely and iudge of the infallibilitie of your Interpreter Straight after hee tells the Emperor that hee might haue vnderstood the prerogatiue of Priesthood out of that which was said not of euery man but of God not to the King but to the Priest not to one descending of the Royall stocke but of the Priestly linage of the Priests to wit which were in Anathot Behold I haue set you ouer nations and kingdomes to pull vp and destroy to build and to plant See the prerogatiue of the Priesthood out of Ieremies calling to bee a Prophet O if hee had beene high Priest This had beene a Text for the nonce But hee goes on It is said in Gods Law also Dijs non detrabes Principem populi tui non maledices Which setting Priests before Kings cals them Gods and the other Princes Compare this exposition with Dauids and Paules Psal. 82. and Act. 23. 5. and yee shall
For which cause the Apostle saith Be not more wise then it behooueth but be wise to sobrietie One thing more also you shall finde that now adayes this spirituall man and sole infallible interpreter of Scripture seldome interprets Scripture or vses it in his Decretalls and Brâ—â—es Nay the stile of his Court hath no manner of smack or sauour of it A long compasse of a sentence intricate to vnderstand yea euen to remember to the end full of swelling words of vanitie with I know not how many ampliations and alternatiues after the fashion of Lawyers in Ciuill Courts not of sober Diuines much lesse of the Spirit of God in his Word Some man would perhaps thinke this proceeds from an affectation of greatnesse and the desire of retaining authoritie which seemes to bee embased by alledging reason or Scripture and interpreting texts For my part I account it comes as much from necessitie For it is notorious that neither the Popes themselues nor those of the Court the Secretaries and Dataries which pen their Bull and Breues haue any vse or exercise in holy Scripture or soundnesse in the knowledge of Diuinitie or skill in the originall tongues wherein Gods Word is written all which are necessarie to an able Interpreter And therefore it is a wise reseruednesse in them not to intermedle with that wherein they might easily fault especially in a learned age and wherein so many watchfull eyes ate continually vpon them And to this very pouertie and cautelousnesse I do impâ—te it that the present Pope in his Breues about the Oath of Alleageance vseth not aword of Scripture But tells his faction that they cannot without most euident and grieuâ—us iniury of Gods honour take the Oath the tenor whereof hee sets downe word for word and that done addes Quae cum ita sint c. Which things saith hee since they bee so it must needs be cleere vnto you out of the wordes themselues that such an oath cannot bee taken with the safetie of the Catholike faith and of your soules sith it containeth many things which are apparantly contrary to faith and saluation Hee instances in no one thing brings neither Scripture nor reason but a Quae cum ita sint without any premisses Which loose and vngrounded proceeding when as it is occasioned the Arch-Priest here and many other of that side to thinke those letters forged or gotten by surreption hee sends another of the same tenor with this further reason Haec autâ—â— est mera pura integraque volunt as nostra This is now to be more then an Interpreter euen to be a Lord ouer the faith of his followers to make his will a reason What would ye haue him doe to alleadge a better he could not a weake and vnsufficient one he was ashamed hee thought it best to resolue the matter into his sole authoritie Whereby he hath proued himselfe a fallible both Iudge and Interpreter yea a false witnesse against God and the truth commanding by the Apostle Christian men to be subiect and to giue euery man their dues feare to whom feare honour to whom honour and much more if there be any difference allegiance to whom allegiance CHAP. IIII. Of the state of the Church of England and whether it may be reconciled with Rome BVt of your interpreters infallibilitie enough Your next doubt whether the Church of England were of the true Church or no was resolued with a Paralogisme partly by reason of equiâ—ocation and diuers acception of the tearmes the Church and to erre partly by composition and diuision in the connexion of these by those Verbes can or may Let vs examine the seuerall parts of your Syllogisme The Proposition The true Church cannot erre is confirmed by the consent of all Excuse me Sir if I withhold my consent without some declaration and limitation I say first it must bee declared whether you meane the Catholike Church or a atrue part of the Catholike Church For there is not the like reason of these to error Against the Catholike Church hell gates shall not preuaile against particular when Christ doth remoue the Candlesticke out of his place they doe Witnesse the Churches of Africke sometimes most Catholike And thus it seemes you must take this tearme since your doubt was whether the Church of England be of the true Church or no Besides I must desire to know what manner of errours you meane whether euen the least or onely deadly and such as barre from saluation which the Apostle cals 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heresies of perdition 2 Pet. 2. 1. Take now your owne choise for if you speake of euery errour the proposition is false euen of the Catholike Church much more of any particular Church Yea I adde further not onely of the Catholike Church by denomination from the greatest part or by representation as the Pastors or Prelates thereof met in a Councill which is still the mixt Church but euen that which is Christs true body whereof he is the Sauiour and which shall be with him for euer As for deadly and damnable errors this true and properly called Church both in the whole and euerie part of the mixt Church is yet priuiledged from them finally for it is kept by the power of God to saluation it is not possible the Elect should thus be seduced Truth it is that by such errors particular visible assemblies vniuersally and obstinately defending them become falsely called Churches from which wee are to seperate our selues Example in the Synagogue and in Churches of the Arians Now let vs see your Assumption But the Church of England head and members King Clergie and people yea awhole Councell of Protestants may erre by your owne grant I answer the Church of England that is the Elect in the Church of England which onely are truely called the Church can neuer deadly erre This no Protestant will grant yee The mixt Church of England head members King Clergie and the residue of the people and a whole Councell of Protestants may erre damnably and therefore much more â—all into lesser errors This they grant And if they shall so erre obstinately they shall deseruedly loose the name of a true Church But they denie they doe thus err yea they denie that they erre de facto at all What followes in conclusion Ergo No true Church This shortnesse in suppressing the verbe would make a man thinke you ment to couer the fault of your discourse And indeede you might by that meanes easily beguile another but I cannot be perswaded you would willingly beguile your selfe Sure you were beguiled if you ment it thus Ergo it is no true Church See your Argument in the like A faithfull witnesse cannot lye But Socrates or Aristides may lye by his owne grant Ergo no faithfull witnesse He that stands vpright cannot fall but you Master Waddesworth by your owne grant may fall Ergo stand not vpright Perhaps your meaning was Ergo it may
become no true Church to wit when it shall so erre damnably But then it followes not There is now no saluation in it and therefore come out of it now When you shew that I shall account you haue done wisely to goe out of it Shew that in anie one point and take me with you In the meane while for my part I shall sooner trust that chapman that shall say to me Loe here is a perfect yard I will measure as truely as I can and when I haue done take the yard and measure it your selfe then him that shall say here is thus much yee shall not neede to measure it but take it on my word yea though one of his Apprentices should stand by and say he could not deceiue mee though hee would as Benedictus a Benedictus tels the present Pope Volens nolens errare non potes Where you relate your endeauour to defend the Church of England and tell of the Puritanes reiecting those Arguments you could vse from the authoritie of the Church and of the ancient Doctors interpreting Scriptures against them flying to their owne arrogant spirit I cannot excuse them for the former nor subscribe to your accusation in the latter Perhaps you haue met with some more fanaticall Brownists or Anadaptists whom here you call Puritans But these that are commonly so called which differ from the Church of England about Church gouernment and ceremonies onely giue indeede to little to the authoritie of men how holy learned or ancient soeuer Which is their fault and their great fault especially in matters of this nature yet they flye not to their owne spirit as you charge them That which you adde that you perceiued the most Protestants did frame the like euasions when you came to answere the Arguments against them on the other side when you shall shew this in particulars I shall beleeue it In the meane while I beleeue you thought so for commonly mediocrities are aggrauated with the hatred slandered with the names of both extreames But in the question betweene the Popish faction and vs you might easily haue discerned why the argument from bare authoritie is not of such validitie For ceremonies and matters of order may be ordered by wise men are not the worse but the better if they be ancient yea if they be common to vs with Rome which Puritans will by no meanes allow In doctrin if holy men yea if an Angell from heauen shall innouate any thing wee are not to admit it Now the controuersies betweene the Romanists and vs are most about doctrine and they exceede as much in extolling the authoritie of the ancients in their priuate opinions and incommodious and strained speeches as the Puritans in depressing them We hold the meane and giue as much to the authoritie and testimonies of the Fathers as may stand with the truth of holy Scriptures and as themselues deferre to the writing of others or require to be giuen to their owne Next you tell of your following their opinion who would make the Church of England and the Church of Rome still to be all one in Essentiall points and the differences to be accidentall Confessing the Church of Rome to be a true Church though sicke or corrupted and the Protestants to be derined from it and reformed This opinion is not onely as you write fauoured of many great Schollers in England but is the common opinion of all the best Diuines of the reformed Churches that are or haue beene in the world as I shewed in part of another worke which as I remember you had a sight of Wherein yet I feare you mistake the tearme accidentall which doth noâ— import that our differences are but sleight and of small confideration but that all those opinions and abuses which we reforme and cut off are not of the Faith but superfluous and â—oraine yea hurtfull and noisome to it as the weedes are to the corne which ouer-grow and choake it And to follow this similitude the state of the Church vnder the Romane obedience and that part which is reformed is like a field ouergrowne all with weedes thistles tares cockle some part whereof is weeded and clensed some part remaines as it was before which makes such a difference to the view as if it were not the same corne But being better considered it will be found all the difference is from the weedes which remaine there and here are taken away Yet neither here perfectly nor all where a like but acâ—ording to the industrie of our weeders or conueniencie of the worke with care of the safetie of the good corne By this Parable you may see what is to be hoped of your labour to reconcile most of our particular controuersies For although I doubt not but in some it may be performed where the difference is rather verball then reall and in the manner of teaching rather then in the substance of doctrine And if moderate men had the matter in handling the flame of contention in a great many more might be troden downe and slaked suppose the sparkes not all extinct yet in some other it is as possible to make the weede and corne-friends as your and our opinions where there is none other remedy but that of our Sauiour Euery plant that my heauenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out Neither doth this impossibilitie arise more out of the nature of the things then the affection of the persons For the Pope and the Court of Rome which are those that domineere on that side doe no lesse out of the feare of their owne ruine deadly detest all reformation then the reformed out of their present view and former feeling the tyrannie of the Papacie which they see doth excommunicate and put to cruell death all that are of this way And which is a prodigious thing where they tolerate the blasphemous and professed enemies of Christ euen with allowance of the publike exercise of their Religion there doe they burne men professing Christs religion according to the ancient and common rule thereof with that vprightnesse of conscience that if they had as many liues as there be Articles thereof they would giue them all rather then renounce any of them As for the Protestants making the Pope Antichrist I know it is a point that inrageth much at Rome But if the Apostle Saint Paul if Saint Iohn in the Reuelation describe Antichrist so as they that doe but looke vpon the Pope well must be forced to say as the people did of the blinde man in the Gospell some this is â—e others he is very like him if himselfe and his flatterers doe and speake such things as if all others should hold their peace doe in a sort proclaime I am he what can the Protestants doe with the matter I will take the liberty here to relate to you what I saw while I was in Venice the rather because it is not impertinent to our present purpose And though perhaps you may
and testifie that this first place was falsified Hee said in the page before that Plessis appeared at last with some foure or fiue Ministers on his side There were no Ministers appeared with him on his side No Protestants no creature did subscribe or was required so to doe The third Which at length they did viz. subscribe this place was falsified A vtter vntruth Whereof there is not a word in the said printed Narration The fourth as well in this as in all the rest There was no subscription as I said at all The Commissioners were all of the Roman profession sauing Causabon and he no Minister They neuer pronounced much lesse subscribed that any of those places examined were falsified Of the first place of Scotus they pronounced nothing Of the second of Durand That the opposition of Durand was alleaged for the resolution And this they would haue remitted also as the former to another time saue that the Bishop insisted saying it was in vaine to dispute if they would not iudge addressing his speech diuers times to the King to the intent hee should signifie his pleasure to the Commissioners and then his Maiestie drawing neere to them they gaue their opinions vpon that Article as before This was that which F. Parsons stumbled at when hee wrote The Ministers and Protestants there present subscribed and testified that it was falsified and so all the rest For being ouerioyed with this newes which hee did not well vnderstand to thinke the charitablest of him hee thought the Commissioners had beene part at least Protestants and Ministers and had subscribed whereas they pronounced their sentence viua voce by the mouth of the Chancellour neuer vsing the tearme falsification yea in some of the rest they acquited the L. of Plessis as in the passage of P. Crinitus though they said Crinitus was deceiued In that of Bernard that it had beene good to distinguish the two passages of Saint Bernard out of the same booke with an et caetera Not to stand now vpon that that in the rest of the places he hath a reasonable and iust defence with indifferent men for the omissions he was charged with in Chrysostome Hierome Bernard and Theodorit and in that of Cyril the King himselfe said aloud that both sides had reason but F. Parsons not hauing as it appeares receiued perfect information of the particularities of this affaire was so hastie to write according to the partiall intelligenâ—e he receiued at Rome that hee faults himselfe in the same kinde that hee imputes to another And if he should meete with some seuere aduersarie that would multiplie his falsehoods by his leaues and lines as he dealeth with Master Fox and then extend by proportion his pamphlet to the bignesse of Master Fox his Booke of Martyrs he would finde that he prouides very ill for himselfe that is to rigorous and censorious to other men But I leaue him and come to the fidelitie of the Popish faction whereof I shall desire you to take a taste in one of the questions which you name about the Church euen that which is indeede cardo negotij as you say the controuersie of the Popes authoritie For the establishing whereof First the Epistles of the ancient Bishops of Rome for the space of about 300. yeares after Christ are counterfeited The Barbarous not Latine but lead of the stile and the likenesse of them all one to another the deepe silence of antiquitie concerning them the Scriptures alleadged after Hieromes translation doe conuince them of falshood And by whose practice and procurement we cannot doubt if wee aske but as Cassius was wont Cui bono For at euery bout the authoritie of the Pope and priuiledges of the Roman See are extolled and magnified Next the Donation of Constantine is a sencelesse forgerie and so blazed by some of the learnedest of the Roman Church Reade it aduisedly either in Gratian or in the Decrees of Syluester with the Confession and Legend of Constantines baptisme and say out of your owne iudgement if euer any thing can be more fraudulent more sottish And because I haue mentioned Gratian his whole compilation is fâ—ll of falsification and corruption of Antiquitie take an example or two in the matter wee haue in hand The Mileuitene and after the Africane Councils vnderpaine of Excommunication prohibit appeales beyond the Seas Which Canons were made purposely to meet with the vsurpations of the Bishops of Rome of which I haue spoken some what before Now in the citing this Canon Gratian addes this goodly explication nisi forte Romanam sedem appellauerint thus excepting that abuse which these Councels directly sought to prohibit Againe Saint Augustine to informe a Christian man what Scriptures hee should hold for Canonicall bids Gratianâ—its â—its it thus inter quâ—â— Scripturas sane illae sunt quas Apostolica sedes habere ab ea alij meruâ—runt accipere Epistolas and accordingly the 〈◊〉 of that Canon is Inter Canonicas The Decretall Epistles are numbred amongst the Canonicall Scriptures True it iâ— that in the end of the next Canon Gratian addes a good limitation and worth the remembering that this must be vnderstood of such Decrees in which there is nothing found contrary to the Decrees of the Fathers foregoing nor the precepts of the Gospell Belike euen in Gratians time it was not holden impossible that in the Sanctions and Decretals of Popes something might be decreed contrary to the Gospel which may be added to your Iudges infallibility which hath beene touched before But these be old trickes of the Champions of the Papacie At this day perhaps it is better yes and that shall ye vnderstand by the words of the children of the Church of Rome themselues the Venetians But first ye are to know that among certaine Propositions set forth in defence of the state there was one the fourth in number of eight That the authoritie promised by our Sauiour Christ to Saint Peter vnder the metaphor of the Keyes is meerely spirituall For confirmation whereof after other proofe was said that the authoritie of the highest Bishop is ouer sinne and ouer soules onely according to the words of that prayer of the Church about Saint Peter qui B. Petro animas ligandi atque soluendi Pontificium tradidisti Cardinall Bellermine vndertooke to answere these Propositions and comming to this place he saith that peraduenture Gods prouidence to take away such deceipts whereby the author of these Propositions would deceiue the simple with the words of the holy Church misunderstood inspired into the reformers of the Breuiarie that they should take out of that Prayer the word animas as anciently it was not there nor ought to be because that prayer was formed out of the words of the Gospell Quodcunque ligaueris quodcunque solueris Now marke the reioinder that is made to him by Iohannes Marsilius who numbering vp his errors in the defence of euery proposition roundly tels him
perhaps was added that the pricks are a late inuention of the Rabbines as many thinke and no part of the Hebrew Text. And that not onely Leo Castro and such as accuse the present Hebrew Copies as falâ—ified but those that defend them also doe many of them confesse Hereupon it was resolued as it seemes to point this place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For that it was not by mistaking but purposely done Franciscuâ— Lucas in his Annotations vpon the place doth assure vs and saith it was Guido Fabricius his deede And indeede other things there bee in that worke which sauour not of the learning and integritie of Arias Montanus as for example the Etymologie of Missa from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But as Boldnesse is not alwayes as prouident as Ignorance or Malice is bold these Correctors marked not that the gender of the Verbe and the affixe of the Noune following are both Masculine So although the Orthographie would bee framed to consent yet the Syntaxe doth crie out against this Sacriledge And yet our Rhemists as I am informed in their lately set forth Bible with a long note vpon this place defend the applying of this Text to the blessed Virgin and the old reading Ipsa What should a man say Necessitie makes men desperate and as the Apostle saith Euill men and deceiuers shall waxe worse and worse deceiuing and being deceiued These be fraudes indeed in the strictest sense wilfully corrupting the Texts of good Authors wilfully maintayning them so corrupted not abstayning from the holy Scriptures themselues For as to that other kinde deprauing the sense retayning the wordes it were endlesse to cite examples Bellarmine alone as I beleeue passeth any two Protestants that euer set pen to paper perhaps all of them put together CHAP. VII Of the Armies of euident witnesses for the Romanists WHere you adde that you found the Catholikes had farre greater and better Armies of euident witnesses then the Protestants it might perhaps seeme so to you as your minde was prepared when you had met with such cunning muster-Masters as the Romanists are Who sometimes bring into the fiâ—ld to make their number seeme more after the old stratagem of warre a sort of Pages and Lackeis vnworthy to hold any ranke in the host of God vnder the names of the Fathers Sometimes to confirme their part giue out a voice confidently that all the â—orces which they see aloofe in the field are on their side whereas when it comes to the battell they shall finde that they wil turne their armes against them Somtimes they change the quarrell it selfe in which case how easie is it to bring Armies as you say into the field to fight against No-bodie and euident witnesses to proue that which no man denies For the purpose that the Bishops of Rome hath had a primacie of honour and authoritie when as the question is about a Monarchie and infallible Iudgement an vncontrolable Iurisdiction Herein if you please see how Bellarmine alleages the Fathers Greeke and Latine in the 15. and 16. Chapters of his first Booke de Summo Pontifice So for proofe of the veritie of Christs Bodie and Bloud in the Lords Supper hee spends a whole Booke onely in citing the testimonies of the Fathers To what purpose When the question is not of the truth of the Presence buâ— of the manner whether it be to the Teeth and Belly or Soule and Faith of the Receiuer Sometimes they will beare downe the vnexpert Souldier their Reader that hee sees the Fathers fight for them as Pighius and Bellarmine come in often with their Vides in the end and application of a testimonie Whereby it comes to passe that the Scholler if he be of a plyable disposition or loath to bee counted dimme-sighted yeelds himselfe to his Teacher and sees in the Fathers that which they neuer dreamed of But surely Sir had you giuen that honour to the holy Scriptures which of the Iewes was giuen to them and our Lord Iesus Christ allowes it in them and then employed as much trauell in the searching and looking into them as you professe to haue done in the perusing the Councels and Fathers perhaps God had opened your eyes as those of Elâ—sha his seruant to haue seene that there are more on our side then against vs horses indeede and charets of fire able to put to flight and scatter neuer so great armies of humane authorities and opinions But this place of the Scriptures hath no place amongst all your motiues As touching that which you say of the Centurists often consuring and reiecting the plaine testimonies of the Ancients It is true that in the title De Doctrina they note a part the singular and incommodious opinions the stubble and errors of the Doctors Wherein to tell you my fancie if they commit any fault it is that they are to rigid and strict referring into this Catalogue euery improper and excessiue speech which being seuered from the rest of the discourse may often seeme absurd as it may also seeme strange that our Sauiour should teach a man to hate his Father and Mother or pull out his eyes or giue him his cloake that hath bereaued him of his coate Whereas these and the like haue in the place where they stand admirable force and grace being taken with an equall and commodious interpretation But it is are cleare as the noone day that sundry such errors and singular opinions there be in the Fathers as cannot be iustified They speake not alwaies to your own mindes not onely prima facie and in sound of words but being neuer so well examined and salued Witnesse Sixtus Senensis in the fift and sixt Bookes of his Bibliotheca Witnesse Pamelius Medina though blamed for confessing so much by Bellarmine yea witnesse Bellarmine himselfe Wherefore if the bare authoritie of the Fathers must binde vs vndergoe the same law yee giue if as your Belgick Index confesseth you beare in them with many errors extenuate them excuse them by deuising some shift often denie them and giue them a câ—modious sense when they are opposed in disputations giue the libertie ye take Or if as we thinke these be base courses and vnbeseeming the ingenuitie of true Christian mindes acknowledge this honour as proper to the Scriptures to be without controuersie receiued examine by the true touchstone of diuine authoritie all humaine writings how holy soeuer their Authors haue beene Try all things as the Apostle commands hold fast that which is good Your instance in Danaeus his Commentaries super D. Aug. Euchiridion ad Laurentium was not all the best chosen For neither doth Saint Augustine in that booke treating professedly of Purgatory auouch it plainely or yet obscurely Nor doth Danaeus reiect his opinion with those words Hic est naeâ—us Augustini or the like The heads of Saint Augustines discourse are these I. That whereas some thought that such as are baptized and holde the Faith of Christ though they liue and
die neuer so wickedly shall be saued and punished with a long but not eternall fire he thinkes them to be deceiued out of a certaine humane pitâ— for this opinion is flatly contrarie to other Scâ—rptures II. He interprets the place of Saint Paul touching the trying of euery mans worke by fire of the fire of tribulation through which as well he that builds gold and siluer that is mindes the things of God as he that builds hay and stubble that is too much mindes the things of this life must passe III. He saith that it is not incredible that some such thing is done after this life also and whether it be so or not may be enquired of IIII. But whether it be found or no that some faithfull people according as they haue more or lesse loued these perishing things are later or sooner saued yet not such as of whom it is said that they shall not possesse the Kingdome of God vnlesse repenting as they ought they obtaine forgiuenesse as for the purpose be fruitfull in almes which yet will not serue to purchase a licence to commit sinne V. That the daily and lighter sinnes without which we are neuer in this life are blotted out by the Lords Prayer And so the greater also if a man leaue them and forgiue others his enemies which is a worthy kinde of almes but the best of all is a sinners amending of his life Loe how plainly Saint Augustine auoâ—cheth Purgatorie Of which he doubts whether any such thing can be found or no. Expounds that Scripture that seemes most strong for it all otherwise and so as it cannot agree thereunto If it be found is sure it will not serue for greater sinnes And for lesser defects yea the greatest shewes another a surer remedy which intruth makes Purgatory superfluous In this doctrine Danaeus is so farre from controuling Saint Augustine that he applauds him and saith that declaring his owne opinion of Purgatorie he pronounceth plainely that the whole defining of this matter is vncertaine doubtfull and rash which since that Augustine wrote being now an old man certainely it cannot be doubted but that hee did altogether reiect Purgatorie yea and he shewes this fire it selfe to be vnprofitable Thus Danaeus there But the censure that was in your minde I beleeue is that vpon another passage of Saint Augustine in the same Booke where hee treates whether the soules of the dead are eased by the pietie of their friends that are liuing And thus he determines it That when the Sacrifices either of the Altar or of whatsoeuer almes are offered for all such as are deceased after Baptisme for such as are very good folke they are thankesgiuings for such as are not very euill they are propitiations for those that are very euill though they be no helpes to the dead yet they are consolations such as they be to the liuing And to such as they are profitable vnto it is either that they may haue full remission or that their very damnation may be more tollerable Vpon this Chapter thus saith Danâ—us Hoc totum caput continet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Augustini and after hee addes Itaque hic foenum stipulam aedificat vir pius magnus But you yee say had rather follow Saint Augustines opinion then his censure Perhaps as one saith rather erre with Plato then hold the truth with others If that be your resolution what should we vse any more words Beleeue then if you please that the commemoration of Christs sacrifice in the Lords Supper or the oblations of the faithfull are to be made for all that decease after Baptisme in the attempting of whatsoeuer sinne they die yea suppose in finall impenitence of any deadly crime That such as be damned may thereby haue their damnation made more tollerable Beleeue that without any improprietie of speech the same forme of words may be a thanksgiuing for one and an appeasing of Gods wrath for another Beleeue also if you can beleeue what you will that Saint Tecla deliuered the soule of Falconilla out of hell and Saint Gregorie the soule of Traian and that as may seeme saying Masse for him sith he was forbidden thence forth to offer any hoste for any wicked man Beleâ—â—e that Macarius continually praying for the dead and very desirous to know whether his prayers did them any good had answere by miracle from the scull of a dead man an Idolater that by chance was tumbled in the way O Macarius when thoâ— offerest prayer's for the dead we feele some ease for the time Beleeue that on Easter euen all the damned spirits in hell keep holy day and are free from their torments Saint Augustine such is his modestie will giue you leaue to beleeue 〈◊〉 as well as Purgatorie if you please as hee is not vnwilling to giue as large scope to other mens opinions as may be so they reuerse not the plaine and certaine grounds of holy Scripture In all these you may if you please follow authors also as Saint Damasceâ—â— Paladius Prudentius Sigebert and others But giue the same libertie to others that yee take Compell no man to follow your opinion if he had rather follow Danaeus reasons For my selfe I would sooner with Saint Augustine himselfe whose words touching Saint Cyprian Danaeus here borrowed confesse this to be 〈…〉 coopertum 〈…〉 then be bound to iustifâ—e his conceit touching the commemoration of the dead in the Lords Supper And as hee saith of Saint Cyprian so would I adde Ego hâ—ius libri authoritate non teneor 〈…〉 Augustini non vt Canonicas habeo sed eas ex Canonicâ—s considero quod in ijs 〈◊〉 scriptur 〈…〉 cum 〈…〉 quod non congruit cum pace eius respâ—â— Which words I doe the rather set downe that they may be Luthers iustification also against F. Parsons who thinkes he hath laid sore to his charge when hee cites very solemnely his Epistle ad Equitem Germ. Anno Domini 1521. where he saith he was tyed by the authority of no Father though neuer so holy if hee were not approued by the iudgement of holy Scripture Surely this is not to denie and contemne as he cals it or as you to controll the Fathers to account them subiect to humane infirmities which themselues acknowledge But the contrary is to boast against the truth to seeke to fore iudge it with their mistakings which needes not so much as require their testimonies I will forbeare to multiply words about that whether the testimonies of Antiquitie which fauour the Protestants be many or few whether they doe indeede so or onely seeme prima facie whether they be wrested or to the purpose whether all this may not by iust or reason be affirmed of the passages cited by 〈◊〉 Romanists out of Antiquitie setting aside matters of ceremony and gouernment which your selfe confesse by and by may be diuers without empeaching vnitie in Faith and opinions euer to be subiected to the triall of
question which I will neuer take vpon mee to answere whether King Henry were such or no vnlesse you will before hand interpret this word as fauourably as Guicciardine doth tell vs men are wont to doe in the censuring your heads of the Church For Popes he saith now adayes are praised for their goodnesse when they exceed not the wickednesse of other men After this description of a good head of the Church or if yee will that of Cominaeus which saith hee is to bee counted a good King whose vertues exceeds his vices I wil not doubt to say King Henry may be enrolled among the number of good Kings In speciall for his executing that highest dutie of a good King the imploying his authoritie in his Kingdome to command good things and forbid euill not onely concerning the ciuill estate of men but the religion also of God Witnesse his authorizing the Scriptures â—o be had and read in Churches in our Vulgar tongue enioyning the Lords Prayer the Creed and ten Commandements to bee taught the people in English abolishing superfluous Holy-dayes pulling downe those iugling Idols whereby the people were seduced namely the Rood of Grace whose eyes and lips were moued with wires openly shewed at Pauls Crosse and pulled asunder by the people Aboue all the abolishing of the Popes tyranny and merchandise of Indulgences such like chafer out of England Which Acts of his whosoeuer shall vnpartially consider of may well esteeme him a better head to the Churâ—h of England then any Pope these thousand yeeres In the last place you come to the Hugenots and Geuses of France and Holland You lay to their charge the raising of ciuill warres shedding of bloud occasioning rebellion rapine desolations principally for their new religion In the latter part you write I confesse somewhat reseruedly when you say occasioning not causing and principally not onely and wholly for religion But the words going before and the exigence of your argument require that your meaning should be they were the causers of these disorders You bring to my minde a story whether of the same Fimbria that I mentioned before or another which hauing caused Quintus Scaeuola to bee stab'd as F. Paulo was while I was at Venice after he vnderstood that he escaped with his life brought his action against him for not hauing receiued the weapon wholly into his body These poore people hauing endured such barbarous cruelties massacres and martyrdomes as scarce the like can be shewed in all stories are now accused by you as the Authors of all they suffered No no Master Wadesworth they bee the Lawes of the Romane religion that are written in bloud It is the bloudy Inquisition and the perfidious violating of the Edicts of Pacification that haue set France and Flanders in combustion An euident argument whereof may bâ—e for Flanders that those Geuses that you mention were not all Caluinists as you are mis-informed the chiefe of them were Romane Catholikes as namely Count Egmond and Horne who lost their heads for standing and yet onely by petition against the new impositions and the Inquisition which was sought to bee brought in vpon those Countries The which when the Vice-roy of Naples D. Petro de Toledo would haue once brought in there also the people would by no meanes abide but rose vp in Armes to the number of 50000. which sedition could not bee appeased but by deliuering them of that feare The like resistance though more quietly carried was made when the same Inquisition should haue beene put vpon Millaine sixteene yeeres after Yet these people were neither Geuses nor Caluinists Another great meanes to alienate the mindes of the people of the Low-countries from the obedience of the Catholike Maiestie hath beene the seueritie of his Deputies there one of which leauing the gouernment after hee had in a few yeeres put to death 8000. persons it is reported to haue been said the Countrie was lost with too much lenitie This speech Meursius concludes his Belgick history with all And as for France the first broiles there were not for religion but for the preferring the house of Guisâ— and disgracing the Princes of the bloud True it is that each side aduantaged themselues by the colour of religion and vnder pretence of zeale to the Romane the Guisians murthered the Protestants being in the exercise of their religion assembled together against the Kings Edict against all Lawes and common humanitie And tell â—ee in good sooth Master Wadesworth doe you approue such barbarous crueltie Doe you allow the butchery at Paris Doe you thinke subiects are bound to giue their throates to bee cut by their fellow subiects or to their Princes at their meere wills against their owne Lawes and Edicts You would know quo iure the Protestants warres in France and Holland are iustified First the Law of Nature which not onely alloweth but inclineth and inforceth euery liuing thing to defend it selfe from violence Secondly that of Nations which permitteth those that are in the protection of others to whom they owe no more but an honourable acknowledgement in case they goe about to make themselues absolute Souereignes and vsurpe their libertie to resist and stand for the same And if a lawfull Prince which is not yet Lord of his Subiects liues and goods shall attempt to despoile them of the same vnder colour of redâ—cing them to his owne religion after all humble remonstrances they may stand vpon their owne guard and being assailed repell force with force as did the Macchabees vnder Antiochus In which case notwithanding the person of the Prince himselfe ought alwaies to be sacred and inuiolable as was Sauls to Dauid Lastly if the inraged Minister of a lawfull Prince will abuse his authoritie against the fundamentall Lawes of the Countrie it is no rebellion to defend themselues against force reseruing still their obedience to their Souereigne inuiolate These are the Rules of which the Protestants that haue borne Armes in France and Flanders and the Papists also both there and elsewhere as in Naples that haue stood for the defence of their liberties haue serued themselues How truely I esteeme it hard for you and mee to determine vnlesse we were more throughly acquainted with the Lawes and Customes of those Countries then I for my part am Once for the Low-Countries the world knowes that the Dukes of Burgundy were not Kings or absolute Lords of them which are holden partly of the Crowne of France and partly of the Empire And of Holland in particular they were but Earles And whether that title carries with it such a Souereigntie as to bee able to giue new Lawes without their consents to impose tributes to bring in garisons of strangers to build Forts to assubjects their honors and liues to the dangerous triall of a new Court proceeding without forme or figure of iustice any reasonable man may well doubt themselues doe vtterly denie it Yet you say boldly they are Rebels and aske
passage of holy Scripture For your conceit or desire that such a Iudge there should be to whom you might in conscience obey and yeeld your selfe because he could not errâ— doth not proue it You would know the Truth onely by the authoritie and sole pronouncing of the Iudges mouth A short and easie way which to most men is plausible because it spares the paines of studie and discourse To such especially as either out of weaknesse dare not trust their owne iudgement or account it shall haue the merit of humilitie to bee led by their Teachers But what now if God will haue you call no man your Father vpon earth If he will send you to his Word and after you haue receiued the Faith by the Churches testimonie out of the easie and plaine places thereof bid you search the Scriptures to finde the Truth in the remnant and pick it out by your owne industrie The rich man being in hell torments in whose wordes I doubt not but our Sauiour doth impersonate and represent the conceits of many men liuing in this world presumes that if one were sent from the dead his Kinsmen would hearken to him but he is remitted to Moses and the Prophets The Iewes as I perceiued by speech with some of them at Venice make it one of their motiues that our Lord Iesus is not the Christ. He should not say they haue come in such a fashion to leaue his owne Nation in doubt and suspence and scandalize so many thousands but so as all men might know him to be what he was Miserable men that will giue lawes to God Of which fault be you a ware also good Master Waddesworth and be content to take not to prescribe the meanes by which you will be brought vnto the knowledge of the Truth to vse what hee hath giuen not to coniecture and diuine what he must giue But God failes not his Church in such meanes as be necessarie Let vs therefore consider the necessitie of this Iudge Where I beseech you consider for I am sure you cannot but know it that all things necessary to saluation are euidently set downe in holy Scripture This both the Sciptures themselues doe teach and the Fathers auouch namely Saint Augustine and Saint Chrysostome and others I forbeare to set downe their words or further to confirme this Lemma which I proued at large against another aduersarie and shall at all times make good if it be questioned Besides these points there are a great manie other though not of such necessitie yet euidently laid downe also in the same Scriptures by occasion of them Manie by iust discourse may be cleared from these and the former If any thing yet remaine in suspence and vnknowne yea or if you will erred in so it be not wilfully and obstinately yet shall it be euer without perill of damnation to him that receiueth what the holy Ghost hath plainely deliuered What necessitie then of your imaginarie Iudge Yes for Vnitie is a goodly thing not onely in matters necessarie but vniuersally in all Controuersies must not bee endlesse But how comes it to passe then that your Iudge whosoeuer hee be doth not all this while decide the question touching the Conception of the Blessed Virgin that is betweene the Dominicans and Franciscans nor that betweene the Dominicans and Iesuites touching Grace and Free-will and all other the points that are controuerted in the Schooles to spare contention and time a precious commoditie among wise men and giue this honour to Diuinitie alone that in â—t all doubts should be reduced to certainties Or if it seeme no wisedome to bee hastie in deciding such questions wherein wittie and learned men are engaged least in stead of changing their opinions they should fall to challenge not onely the infallibilitie but which were more dangerous the authoritie of their Iudge If it be thought better to leaue scope to opinions opposition it selfe profitably seruing to the boulting out of the truth If vnitie in all things bee as it seemes despaired of by this your Gellius himselfe why are wee not content with vnitie in things necessary to saluation expresly set downe in holy Scripture and anciently thought to suffice reseruing infallibilitie as an honour proper to God speaking there Why should it not be thought to suffice that euery man hauing imbraced that necessarie truth which is the rule of our faith thereby trie the spirits whether they be of God or no. If hee meete with any that hath not that doctrine receiue him not to house nor salute him If consenting to that but otherwise infirme or erring yet charitably beare with him This for euery priuate man As for the publike order peace of the Church God hath giuen Pastors and Teachers that we should not bee carried about with euery winde of doctrine and amongst them appointed Bishops to command that men teach no other or forraine doctrine which was the end of Timothy his leauing at Ephesus 1. Tim. 1. 3. Then the Apostles themselues by their example haue commended to the Church the wholsome vse of Synodes to determine of such controuersies as cannot by the former meanes be composed but still by the holy Scriptures the Law or Rule as you say well by which all these Iudges must proceede Which if they doe not then may they be deceiued themselues and deceiue others as experience hath shewed yet neuer bee able to extinguish the truth To come to Antiquitie There is not any one thing belonging to Christian Religion if wee consider well of more importance then how the puritie of the whole may bee maintayned The Ancients that write of the rest of Christian Doctrine is it not a miracle had they knowne any such infallâ—ble Iudge in whose Oracle the securitie of all with the perpetuall tranquillitie of the Church is contayned they should say nothing of him There was neuer any Age wherein there haue not beene heresies and sects to which of them was it euer obiected that they had no infallible Iudge How soone would they haue fought to amend that defect if it had beene a currant doctrine in those times that the true Church cannot bee without such an Officer The Fathers that dealt with them why did they not lay aside all disputing and appeale them only to this Barre Vnlesse perhaps that were the let which Cardinall Bellarmine tells the Venetians hindered Saint Paul from appealing to Saint Peter lâ—st they should haue made their Aduersaries to laugh at them for their labour Well howsoeuer the Cardinall hath found out a merrie reason for Saint Paules appealing to Caesars iudgement not Peters lest hee should expose himselfe to the laughter of Pagans what shall wee say when the Fathers write professedly to instruct Catholike men of the forepleadings and aduantages to bee vsed against Heretikes euen without descending to triall by Scriptures or of some certaine generall and ordinarie way to discerne the Truth of the Catholike Faith from the