this parte You aske moreouer whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie I beseeche you examine well the doctrine of the Protestants and compare it with the doctrine of Christ of the Apostles of the primitiue churche and with the religion set foorth by the godlie writers whiche wrote about the time of Constantine or shortly after And if you can proue that we doe not in al pointes agree with the religion of Christ of the apostles as it is set down in the old and new Testament Choose what translation you will or that we consent not in all thinges concerning faith and the substance of the true doctrine which the auncient fathers as appeareth in their bookes a few erroures by them mainteined onelie excepted then wee will willingly yeelde 〈◊〉 you As for example I will note a fewe capitall pointes of religion because I will not wander in generalities First we confesse with them one waye to â—e iustified and saued by which is by â—â—â— free mercies of God graunted vs by thâ— onely death passioÌ„ of Christ our onely Lord and Sauiour and that faith is the onely meanes and instrument to apprehend this our iustification and saluation That Christ is our Mediator both of redemption and intercession that we ought â—â— pray onely vnto God not to anie Saints â—â— parted and that in the name of Christ and not in the name of anie Angell or â—â—int whatsoeuer To praye for those that be aliue and not for those which bee deade That in the Lordes Supper according to his institution we doo spirituâ—â—ly by faith feed vpon the body of Christ and that Sacrament truely and faithfully receiued as the remembraunce of the â—eath and passion of Christ is a spirituall foode and sustenaunce vnto our soules and a pledge of eternall life to satisfie our consciences We say further that Christ his naturall body fleshe blood and bone is noâ— in the Sacrament vnder the fourme of breade it being onely in heauen on the right hand of God according to the articles of our faith where in body he shall remaine vntill the day of iudgement though Christ our Sauiour as he is God in his diuine nature filleth all places and is with his children powring daily the abundance of his graces vpon them Lastly we say that man hath no free will of himselfe to doo anie good thing no not anie good thought but that it is God that worketh in vs both the will and also the deede according to his good pleasure euen of his free grace If you will either giue eare to the doctrine which we do preach or peruse the bookes which wee haue and doe write you shall see that the Protestantes did neuer vary one ynch from these pointes of true religion which I haue recited But because you make mencion of a knowne catholike Church it behoueth for that an Harlot may haue the countenaunce of an honest woman to distinguish betwixt the true church of God the counterfeit Church and to shew howe they both may be discerned and knowne Wee must needes auouch with the holy spirit of God that the true Church of Christ being the congregation and companie of the faithfull dispersed ouer the face of the whole earth is discerned and knowen by the woord of God For the true Sheepe doo heare the voice of their Pastor Christ Neither is there anie other signe or marke to knowe the Church of God sauing onely the Scriptures of God which are the treasurie of all truth For the citie of the Saintes and houshold of God as the Apostle saith is builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe Corner stone So then that is the true Catholike Church consecrated a spirituall Temple 〈◊〉 God which is guided and ruled by the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Therefore the Church of God is called the Spouse of Christ for that shee ought in al â—inges to harken vnto the voyce of the â—idegroome In like manner the church â— as a piller which the Lord God hath â— in the earth amongst men therein so to little his truth that all stormes and Tempests euen the gates of hell and all the fernall powers fighting against it yet shâ— they not preuaile because shee stayeth â— selfe onely vppon the woord of God aâ— thereby stayeth others and therefore a gâ—ly father saith The piller and strength â— the Church is the Gospel and the spiâ— of lyfe Likewise Saint Agustine saâ—ther be certain books of our Lord vnâ— the authoritie whereof ech part agreeth there let vs seeke for the Church therbâ— let vs examine and try our matters An in the same Chapter I will saieth hee haue you to shew me the church not bâ— the doctrines of men but by the woorâ— of God. Saint Chrisostome saith it cannot by any means be known what is the true church but only by the scriptures â–ª what the counterfeit Church is it appereth by the promisses truely euen that Church which consisteth onely in outwarde shewe challenging authoritie ouer the woord and spirit of God prescribing a rule of woorshiping of God by her owne deuise without anie warrant of the woord of GOD which deuiseth other meanes to be saued by then onely Christ which feigneth that her faith can neuer faile notwithstanding â—â—e neuer aspired vnto the true faith of Christ but hath persecuted the same keeping the sonne of righteousnesse as vnder â—â—â—ile or cloud not suffering him to shine in simple mens mindes and hartes by his holye Scriptures which are the keyes of knowledge the very power of God to saluation to as many as beleeue If we caÌ„not vnderstaÌ„d the scriptures the fault is in vs and not in them As no man may coÌ„demne the brightnes of the sonne because his eye is not able to sustaine the clearenes therof so the hardnes of the mistery which we can not sometimes coÌ„passe or perfectly vnderstand in the scriptures ought not to take away froÌ„ vs the vse of the scriptures Now â—â—â—ing you depende much vppon the aunciâ—â—â— doctors fathers I purpose for the satisfying of the reader to knit vp this diffeâ—â—â—ce betwixt the church of God and the counterfeite Synagogue of Sathan with these woords of S. Augustine Whether they haue the church or no let theÌ„ shew â— the Canonicall bookes of the holy â—riptures we must knowe the Church of â—hrist euen as we likewise know Christ â—hich is the head of the church in the caâ—nical scriptures And what can be more â—laine then that which is spoken by the Euangelist Iohn disseuering the tâ—â—â— Church from the false the true Christiaâ— from hipocrices and the faithful ministeâ— and preachers of the Gospell from faâ— prophets and counterfeit teachers in thâ— fewe woordes Hereby shall ye knoâ— the spirit of God euery spirit which câ—fesseth that Iesus Christ is come in thâ— flesh is of
other mens writing and so would I haue others vnderstand myne It is most true that Origem Ambrose Augustine Hierom the other fathers of the Church haue their seuerall errors one doth write against an other most vehemently What maruell is it that these did differ seing that â—he Apostles theÌ„ selues could not agree alwayes in all pointes Paule did withstand Peter in the face before all men Platina one of your owne storie writers affirmeth that the Popes them selues whom you brage so much of did repugne one an others decrees The next Pope saith he either breaketh or vtterly repealeth his predecessors decrees For these little petie Popes had no other studie to occupie them selues with all but only to deface the name of the former Popes of which church were not only these Popes but also your owne scholemen pillers of your religion How came it to passe that these thinges were vttered in your owne boks Barnardus non vidit omnia Barnarde did not see all things Hic magister non tenetur Here one maister is not to bee receiued Thomas Aquine saith that we are not boÌ„nd vpon the necessitie of saluatioÌ„ to beleue not only the Doctours of the Churche as Hierom. August â–ª but also neither the church it selfe sauing only matters concerning the substaunce of faith But lett all mens aucthoritie passe and receiue that remaining in eight Persons the which which the holy Apostle wriceth Whosoeuer bringeth not the Doctrine of the Gospell receiue them not And againe If wee or an Angell from heauen doe preach any other doctrine theÌ„ you haue receiued hold him accursed To conclud we ought not to leane either to this man or that to the right hand or to the left to this church or that church in any thing whatsoeuer further then the truth of Gods word doth direct vs Neither doeth our saluation depend vppon anie earthly man but we ascribe it wholy to our lord sauiour Christ by whose stripes onely we are healed Papist 11 MOreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in the time on which they hold the true Church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the catholik Church was bound to goe from the church which they sawe and which taught them both that article all other things touching their faith by which they were christened receiued al other sacramentes commodities of saluation And whether they were bound to seeke for this vnknowne closse congregation which they could neither come vnto nor by â—hich they neuer receaued any benefit nor â—ould receiue any so forsake the church â—y whome and in whome they receiued both â—heir faith sacraments Shew me therfore â—hat the Christian men of those dates were charged to beleue any other church or seke for any other church theÌ„ that which taught them the articles of the church and baptized them And I recant Answeare 11 YOu further demauÌ„d Whether the people when the Church was hid were bound to goe from the church which they sawe seeke the vnknowne church beleue the same If you will vouchsafe to peruse that which I haue noted heretofore which is also confirmed by sundrie learned authorities viz. that the true church of God is to be sought for to be found only by the scripturs which are the foundations of the same church you may be satisfied heerein that the people ought to stay them selues vpon the scriptures not to beleue any further then Gods word leadeth theÌ„ The true church of God is not alwayes most apparant in earth or consistinge of the greatest number This appeareth by Noah in setting him selfe against all the worlde the true Church onely excepted then were saued in the arke and all the worlde else drowned Was not Lot his small familie the true Church of God deliuered by the Angells and the fiue whole citties destroyed â–ª where was the Church in the time of Elias when he complained most bitterly and said I haue bene verie ielous for the Lord God of hoastes For the children of Israel haue forsaken the couenant broken downe the altars slaine thy Prophetes with the swoord I only am lefte and they seeke my life to take it away Where was the Church when Esay the Prophet cried out How is the faithfull cittie become an harlot it was full of iudgement iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers their siluer is become drosse their wine is mixed with water their Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues Where was the Church when Dauid the Prophet did breake for the into theise words there is not one that doeth good no not one If there were any Church of God in these times in which these Propheâ—es liued no doubt it was in verie fewe or els hid altogether otherwise they would not so greeuouslie haue complained of the want thereof And yet there was in all â—ese times a Church in outwarde forme â—ewe to the iudgment of man supposed to â— the true Church where the Iewes the â—â—e Church at what time they bosted most â— the outwarde beautie of their Church â—ying We are the temple of the Lord or â—hen they sayd wee are the children of God whereas euen at that time they went â— whoring after their owne inuentions But as the Scribes Pharisies vaunted â—em selues that they were the true Church â—f God the Disciples of Moses the sonnes â—f Abraham where as in deede by the teâ—â—imonie of our sauiour Christ they worâ—â—ipped God in vaine teachinge the preâ—eptes and doctrines of men and erred for â—hat they knowe not the scriptures were â—ypocrites dissemblers deuouring wiâ—owes houses vnder a colour of longe praiâ—r euen so you with your Church of Rome â—hough you bragge neuer so much of your â—uccession and aucthoritie the holy ghost â—lainly sheweth that your Babilon shall â—aue a fal Our sauiour Christ telleth both â—ou the pharisees that you haue made through your own deuises the temple of God adenn of theues Triumph neuer so much that you are the catholike church â–ª that you are in the arke of Noah you are none of Gods neither shall be till you renounce abolish your vaine ceremonies â— false worshipping of God other thinges which you do contrarie to his holy wordeâ— The true church of God is coÌ„pared to the Moone which sometimes is full clere aâ— bright sometimes in the Eclips is wan â— darke so the church of God is now great now small now calme and in quietnesse nowe subiect to tempests and troubles nowe in many nowe in fewe And therefore you are greatlie deceiued in that you do thinke the Church vtterly extinguished wheÌ„ it appeareth not at your pleasure Thus you may learne by sundrie writers that God hath had wil haue alwaies his church whether it be more or lesse One which hath written the Forte of
being eighteene monethes together at Corinthe afterwardes writeth this Epistle vnto the Romanes in the which Epistle he saluteth Priscilla and Aquilla and the rest of the Congregation being then in their priuate houses and also saluted many other by name and maketh no mention at all of Peter therin Who if he had bene there as you say that he was he shoulde no doubt haue receiued salutations as well as the rest of the faithfull There fell some contention betwixt Paule and Barnabas at Antioche so that Paule tooke Siluanus otherwise called Sylas with him into all cities where they had preached the woord of the Lorde Peter departed from Antioche where he had remained seuen yeares together into Assyria yet further from Rome Ye writeth an Epistle vnto the dispersed Iewes and sendeth the same by Siluanus sending salutations therin from the Church at Babylon a famous citie in Assyria where Peter was then the Apostle of the Circumcision But it may be that you will say that I mistake this place because some writers doe interpret this Babylon to be Rome and in deede it is the onely place wherevpon you do ground Peters being at Rome But this doeth not sound with reason neither is it likely that a man shoulde vse the name of one cittie when he subscribeth his letter being written at an other citie or to vse any Metamorphosis in naming the citie as though he were either ashamed of the place or else that he would not haue had it knowne where he had his aboade so he might better haue altogether omitted it and not to haue named Babylon at all But if you will nedes haue Babylon to signify Rome in this place sithe it agreeth neither with sense reason nor truth then I besech you let Rome bee that Babylon of which the Eâ—angelist speaketh Which is the whore that hath made all nations to drinke of â—he wine of the wrath of her fornicatioÌ„ Forasmuch as the sinnes vices which â—eined in Babylon are founde in Rome â— great aboundaunce as persecution of the â—rue Church of God oppression and destruction of Gods people confusion superâ—ition idolatry and all kind of impietie â—ickednesse But to my purpose Christ commaunded Peter and the other Apostles of which they had their name to goe â—nto all the world and to preache the Gosâ—ell to all nations and said that they should â—e his witnesses both in Hierusalem and â—n all Iudaea and in Samaria and vnto the â—ttermost part of the earth By which it â—ppeareth that if he had bene a resting Bishoppe and tied vnto the seat of Rome fiue and twentie yeares as you â—ontruly affirme he had broken his maiâ—ters commaundement and had answered neither to his name nor office It may be that you will alledge the Histories against me for the proofe of Peters Bishoprike but I may truly answere you that forsomuch as the Histories doe imitate and followe one an others opinion and in that the same were committed to printe verie lately in respect and in such a time as no books might be printed but suche as the Pope and his cleargy would ratify and allowe howe may it then seme straunge albeit the truth of this matter agreeing with the scriptures were concealed â–ª For if they woulde haue suffered the truth of this cause to haue bene opened it woulde haue dashed altogether your Popes succession and authoritie But to conclude you say that Peter was Bishop of Rome at such time as Paule was first committed there vnto prison which was two and thirtie yeares after his conuersion but howe vntruly let euery simple man iudge For Paule complaineth that at his comminge vnto Rome when he was first called vnto his aunsweare No man assisted him but all forsooke him No doubte if Peter had bene the Bishop of Rome he would not haue forsak his fellow â—aule Moreouer he exhorteth Timothy to â—ome vnto him shewing that Demas â—ad forsaken him and had embraced â—is present worlde and was departed â—nto Thessalonica That Crescens was â—one vnto Galatia Titus vnto Dalmaâ—a he addeth this clause saying Only â—uke is with mee If Peter had beene â—en in Rome Paule woulde not haue â—ed these woordes Only Luke is with â—ee For neither feare of imprisoment â—either present death would haue kept â—acke Peter from Paules company â—nd if Peter had bene in like authoriâ—e as you affirme his successours the Pope nowe to bee in hauing the neckes â—f all Emperours Kinges and Prinâ—es vnder his girdle he woulde surely â—aue deuised either some meanes whereâ—y Paule might haue bene deliuered â—om that filthy prison or else woulde â—aue obteined nay graunted him a parâ—on for his life So that this can not be â—idden or cloaked but that either you â—ust deny the Popes aâ—cthoritie and â—premacie in that time or else plainâ— and freely graunt and confesse that Peter was not then Bishoppe of Rome as you may I warrant you without any damage or hurt to your soule agree vnto both Thus much touching the prerogatiue of your Church Now you say Thaâ— the scriptures be difficult and hard and therefore your church of Rome must haue the interpretation thereof I haue shewed heretofore that the Scriptures â— God be not hard but very playne and easie That they are an vndefiled law which conuerteth the soule and giueth wiâ—dome to the simple They bee a candle to our feete and a light to our steppes The ophilact saith That nothing can deceiuâ— those which do search Gods scriptures for that they are the candle whereby thâ— theefe is taken An other auncient Doâ—tour saith That all thinges are cleare and plaine in Gods Scriptures whatsoeueâ— thinges are necessarie the same be manifest Clemens Alexandrinus a grauâ— wise man in an oration that he made to the Gentils saith Harken ye that befarre of giue eare ye that bee neare the woord of God is hidden from none it is a common light it doth lighten all men there is no darknesse at all in the world Yet this commeth into question whether the interpretation of the scriptures do depend vppon the Churche of Rome or no. Pigghius one of your owne doctors saith That the scriptures as a man both truly and merely saith are like a nose of waxe that easely suffereth it selfe to be drawen backewarde and forward and to be framed and fashioned this waye and that way and how soeuer you list An other faith of your Church of Rome Although they tell thee that thy ryght hand is thy lefte hand or that thy left hande is thy right hand yet such a sentence must bee holden for good Thus you make the woord of God which is easily and playne to the vnderstanding of the simple and a â—ertaine rule to direct the true Christian â—ut a dumble schoolmaster and deade letter and that you must set the holy spirit of God â—o schoole as though he had set downe the Scriptures in a defuse and hard
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That
the authoritie of the Romaine church and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the authoritie of Gods word An other saith That this is the iudgment of all them that thinke lightly that ground the authhoritie and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not conrariwise â—lay the foundation of the church in the authoritie of the scriptures There be no coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts of Christ but such only as bee taken so and holden by the Church Therefore the scriptures followe the Church but contrariewise the Church followeth not the Scriptures An other saith That the Apostles haue written certaine things not that their said writings should rule our faith or religion but rather that they should bee vnder and be ruled by our faith the scriptures are dumbe iudges the scriptures are like a nose of waxe I might alledge many authorities out of your owne writers which go about to extoll your church of Rome aboue God and his holy worde â—ut these may perswade all men which be not wilfully blinded how arrogantly and Luciferlike you do preferre your Church both contrarie to the manifest expresse woorde of God and also to the opinion iudgement of the Godly learned fathers whose authorities I haue cited But let the indifferent reader iudge whether our church which groundeth her selfe wholy onely vpon the heauenly Scriptures and submitteth her selfe to the spirit of God as the true interpreter of the same hearkeneth onely vnto the voyce of her Pastor Christ and acknowlegeth him onely to bee her heade according as we are taught by the scriptures be the true Church of God the Catholik Apostolike church or your church of Rome which innketh her selfe equal with god vsurpeth authoritie aboue his most holy woord will not haue Christ but the Pope her heade which wil be iudge in all causes whether Christ will or no which mainteineth no not in one point the Apostolike doctrine and faith but doeth persecute euen vnto death the true professors of the same Whereas you doo aske Howe our Church can be one For that as you say it is deuided into so many sectes I haue shewed before that we doo not disagree now at this day in matters of faith and true religion as your Church of Rome dooth in matters of great weight and importance It hath beene a vulgar and common prouerbe of long time vsed that the Diuell will haue his Chappell nearâ— Gods Church Among the olde Prophets was some one Balaam or other In the small number which accompanied our Sauiour Christ was one Iudas many carnal Capernaites which sought rather their belly then the aduauncement of Gods truth which pretended a zeale and followed Christ yet depended vppon olde customes and ceremoniall traditions and helde other fond opinions Among the true Apostles were false Apostles which though not altogether yet in some parte preached either circumcision or iustification by woorkes repugnant to the doctrine of the true Apostles as you doo Our Sauiour truely prophesied That there shoulde arise false Christes and false Prophets Saint Paule saith yet in an other sence There must be heresies eueÌ„ among you that they which are approoued among you might bee knowne By which he noteth that Gods Church is not onely subiect to striffe and dissention as touching orders and maners but also to heresies as touching doctrine We doo not stand so stifely vppon our reputation but doe confesse that as we are men so we may erre But wee trye our iudgementes and opinions by the touchstone of Gods woord not respecting the person but the doctrine which we allow of so farre as the holy scriptures do approoue the same in which is no errour at all We doe not denie but that there may be amongest vs some carnall fleshly Gospellers some Epicures and Athistes some giuen to mainteine vnprofitable and straunge opinions as there are in your Church of Rome The like there were in the Apostles time some which helde of Paule some of Apollo some of Peter yea some which seemed to haue beene of the number of the faithfull because they occupied a place in the Church of whom the Apostle speaketh saying Babes it is the last time and as you haue hearde that Antichrist shall come euen nowe are there many Antichristes whereby we knowe that it is the last time they went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. It is manifest that in the primitiue church therewere false brethreÌ„ which were cloaked with the name of Christianitie Arrius that damnable heretik the fauourers of his sect which deny Christ to be God bosted theÌ„selues That they only were Catholikes and called others which mainteined the truth against them sometimes Ambrosians and sometimes Athanasians as you doo call vs nowe Lutherans nowe Caluinists nowe Zwinglians Ebion that Heretike who affirmed Christ to be onely man and saith that the obseruation of the Lawe was very necessarie to saluation would needes be called a Christian All other heretikes which were many in the florishing time of the church as appeareth by the stories bragged that they held the true faith that they were the true Church Shal we therfore coÌ„clude say that the Prophets the Apostles the godly Christians and fathers of the primitiue Church were not of the true Church of God for that in their times there were manie sectes which couered them selues with the cloake collour of true religion Saint Paule forseing through Gods spirite what woulde come gaue this watchworde to the Colosians To beware least that anie shoulde goe about to spoyle them through phylosophie and vaine deceit through the traditions of men acording to the rudimeÌ„ts of the world and not after Christ He also forwarneth the Thessalonians that Antichrist the sonne of perdicion shall sitt as God in the temple of God shewing him selfe to be God. It is wonderfull to see howe you are blinded seing you stumble at a strawe and doe leape ouer a bloke You strain at a gnat and doe swallow a Camel You see a moath in another mans eye and perceiue not the beame which is in your owne eye You are most giltie your selues in that which you would haue to be a notorious crime in others For you agree not in the principall poyntes of religion as I haue noted before but in that you demauÌ„d Whether our Churche was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all nations or gather generall councelles and howe the titles which you set foorth by name can bee applied to our Church I saie that our Church hath and doth enioy such priuiledges and preheminence as is limited vnto hir by the worde of God Neuerthelesse we doe not challenge anie such authoritie to the obedience of all nations vnto our Church but doe pray in the name of Christ vnto the Lorde of Heauen and earth to poure forth the
aboundaunce of his spirit vpon all Iewes Turkes Infidels and Papists that they may imbrace the glad tidinges of the Gospell and become obedient children vnto the maiestie of almightie god Where wee haue peculiar charge in our seuerall congregations wee exhorte with Iohn Baptist all men to repentaunce Wee say with the Apostle That wee are messengers from Christ to moue the people to be reconciled vnto God that we are feâ—owe laborers to beseech them not to â—eceiue the grace of God in vaine shewâ—ng that nowe is the accepted time and the daye of saluation in the whiche the God of all mercies doth offer them â—ardon of their sinnes for Christes sake â—hough they be neuer so manie in numâ—er if they wil repent beleeue the gosâ—el We haue no warrant in Gods woorde â— which ought to be the square or rule to â—â—reâ—t all Christians to claime or chaleng â—nie such authoritie ouer other nations Christ our sauiour doth denie that superiâ—ritie vnto the Apostles saying It shall â—ot be so amonge you In deede your Church of Rome doth vsurp this that shee â—s aboue all other Churches that all natiâ—ns doe owe their obedience vnto hir and â—hat all Kinges and Emperours doe owe â—heir subiectioÌ„ vnto hir as in Peters right â—ou haue sought and doe seeke the same suâ—eriority as appeareth by the sayinge of Frederike the Emperour vnto Pope Alexander the thirde most tyrannically treading vpon him and setting his foote in his neck Non tibi sed Petro This submission saith the Emperour belongeth not to thee but to Peter To whom the Pope answered Etmihi Petro It is both due vnto me to Peter The like proud behauiour shewed Pope HildebraÌ„d vnto Henrie the fourth Emperoure who caused him his wife and his sonne to attende and wayte three dayes three nights barefoote and barelegged before his pallace at Canntium or he would vouchsafe to speake with him But to let these thinges passe of which like examples the histories be plentilull which doe argue the ambition and tyrannie of your church As you haue made oftentimes this offer That if such suche thinges coulde be prooued you would recant So say I againe vnto you if you be willing to play the Proctoures part in the behalfe of your church of Rome and proue these high dignities which shee doeth challenge by the worde of God not onely I but manie thousandes will ioyne handes with your church But you shall neuer bee able to proue by the scriptures that God either in the olde or newe Testament â—ath promised to establishe anie suche one â—hurche in earth which shoulde appeare in â—utwarde pompe and externall shewe to â—e viewe of the whole worlde continually â— endure by orderly succession of anie Apoâ—olike man in one place or to be of suche â—uthoritie maiestie in earth that it might â—equire the obedience of all nations sumâ—oning and citing them vpon paine of exâ—mmunication to appeare at her generall â—essions or Councelles called by her Nay â—ther the churche of God as I haue declaâ—d before hath beene for the most part subâ—ct to persecutions of smal countenance â— the eyes of man and so small that oftenâ—mes shee coulde not bee seene as in Elias is time it playnely appeareth as also in â—e time in which our sauiour Christ was â—uersant here on earth But of this matter â— haue spokeÌ„ at large in other places You â—eme to take it as grauÌ„ted to you that you â—aue authoritie to call all nations to your â—uncells yet it appeareth by the ecclesiâ—ticall histories that you haue no such priâ—ledge or commission but that of right it apperteineth to the temporall magistrate Constantine the great being Emperour ouer all the world did call and summon generall councellâ— for the establishing of true religion without the consent of the Pope For so a good writer affirmeth Constantine saith he as if he had bene a common Bishope appointed by God called together councels of gods ministers and disdained not himselfe to sitt in the middest of theÌ„ to be partaker of their doings Your owne Popes in like manner doe confesse this For Pope Leo writing vnto Theodosius the Emperoure hath these woordes All our Churche sayeth he and our Priestes most humblie beseech your maiestie with sobbes and teares that you will commaund a generall concell to be holden within Italie I do not deny but that your Bishopps of Rome traueled earnestly that no councell shoulde be called without their consentes and to haue this prerogatiue of calling councells but yet they coulde neuer bring it to passe vntill they had gotten the Emperoures heads vnder their gyrdelles and that appeareth by the saying of Pope Pius 2. otherwise called Aeneas Syluius who â—doeth also note the inconueniencie whiche woulde insue thereof By these authorities saith hee they thinke them selues armed that say no councell may be kept without the consent of the Pope Whose iudgement if it should stand as they woulde haue it would drawe with it the decaye and ruine of the Church for what remedie were there then if the Pope him selfe were vicious destroyed soules ouerthrewe the people with euell examples taught doctrine contrarie to the faith and filled his subiects full of heresies â–ª should we suffer all to goe to the Diuâ—ll â–ª Verely when I reade the olde â—tories and consider the Actes of the Apoâ—les I finde no such order in those dayes â—hat only the Pope should summoÌ„ councels And afterwardes in the time of Constanâ—tine the greate and of other Emperoures when councells should be called there was â—o greate account made of the Popes â—onsent Moreouer he saith that before â—he councell of Nice eche Bishope liued seâ—erally and little regard was then had to â—he Church of Rome But concerning â—hefe titles wherewith the woord of God dooth beautifie adorneth the true Church of God calling her The spouse of Christ the dearelie beloued of Christ the citie of God c. Let the scriptures Gospel of Christ it selfe conteined in the olde newe Testament be iudge in this matter whether these titles doo belong and appertaine to your Church or vnto ours Our Church affirmeth Christ Iesus onely to be the heade of the Church his Spouse your Churche dooth affirme the Pope to be her head our Church dooth not mainteine any doctrine Sacrament or any tradition which is not grounded vppon the doctrine of Christ and expresly set foorth in the holy Byble your Church dependeth vppon the decrees of man dooth teache such ecclesiasticall ordinances and constitutions to be of equall authoritie with the Scriptures of God setteth foorth fiue Sacramentes more then euer Christ ordeined and corrupteth the other two Sacramentes onely appointed by Christ for these fiue Sacramentes deuised by your church of Rome were brought into England by Otho the Cardinall in the raigne of King Henrie the third in the yeare of our Lord. 1236. To conclude our Church dooth feede Christes people and flocke with
tongue of your crouching before idolles of the placing of the saide idolls in your Churches of your worshippe done vnto them of your pilgrimages of the supremacie of your holie father the Pope of your vnwritten verities and of all the rabble of your ceremonies ordinances and traditions whiche haue no warrant of Gods worde in whiche you repose saluation and by whiche you greatlie deceiue Gods people Will not the Lorde call you to an accompt for abusing and deceiuing thus his people in giuing them darnell and chaffe for wheate in feeding them with your owne inuentions without anie warrant or authoritie of Gods worde Hath not GOD set downe a platforme in his holie Scriptures howe hee wil be worshipped and serued commaunding That you shall neither adde nor diminishe turne â—either to the right hande nor to the lefte but syncerelie to walke in the wayes of the Lorde And hath threatened moreouer That if anie man shall adde vnto the things whiche bee written GOD shall adde vnto him the plagues that bee written And if anie man shall diminishe from the wordes of GOD his part shal be taken awaie out of the booke of life But either sufficient is spoken â—r inough will not serue Onelie this â—hing I require of you that you will â—ot take in ill parte whatsoeuer I â—aue written the Lorde is my witâ—esse that I haue not beene mooued herevnto either of malice or of vaine â—lorie neither haue I written or set â—owne anie doctrine but onelie that â—hich in my conscience as I shall answere at the dreadfull daye of iudgement I am perswaded to bee the verie â—ueth If you thinke that I haue not â—llie absolutely answered your Interrogations and Demaundes which you haue set downe so diffusedlie and out of order repeating some one thing often and in heaping one vppon another without anie reason or iudgement in charging vs and laying those heresies to our charge whiche wee are so farre from mainteining of them as that wee do vtterlie abhorre detest yea flatlie condemne them I would haue â—ou to note and plainlie sette downe in what thinges I haue failed or what thinges I haue omitted or in what you bee not fullie resolued and I not to haue sufficientlie aunswered you For I am most willing according to that small talent and gift whiche God hath of his goodnesse bestowed vppon mee to imploye my trauell and spende my time in this kinde of exercise Let vs ioyne together in building God his Church for that manie soules bee in daunger by reason of controuersies and contentions whiche bee betwixt vs in that they halte as they did in the time of Elias the Prophete betwixt two opinions doubting what way were best to take Let vs seeke to aduaunce Gods worshippe which is spirituall and must bee done in spirit and trueth GOD is dishonoured either when wee woorshippe anie other then him alone giuing his honor to anie other creature or when wee giue him not that honor whiche hee requireth of vs in his sacred and holie worde or woorshippe him otherwise than hee appointeth The Lord graunt you a penitent hart indue you with true and perfect knowledge that you may seeke the sauing of your owne soule the profitte of Gods â—urch and Congregation and the adâ—ncement of his kingdome that â—h one heart and one minde wee â—y worshippe and serue GOD the â—her and his Sonne Iesus Christ in â—irit and trueth To whom with the holie Spirit three persons and one inuisible and immortall God be all glorie nowe and euer Anthonie Gilbie vnto the Reader THE miserable Iewes and proud Papistes are both alike deceiued by these and such like carnal cogitatioÌ„s as appeares in these popishe questions The Iewes will 〈◊〉 haue an earthlie Messias to whom all â—â—â—s shal be in subiection corporallie viâ—â—â— or else they wil haue none The Papists will haue an earthlie church visible kingdome of the same Messias to the which al nations â—halbe subiect or else they wil haue none 〈◊〉 poore Christ and his persecuted church â—espised of both twaine The Iewes will 〈◊〉 of this poore Nazarite for their king 〈◊〉 â—apists will not haue his contemptible 〈◊〉 to be their church The Papists boast â—â—â—ir antiquitie and succession but the â—â—â—s if that wold serue haue better cause â—ast of both for their antiquitie is farre â—â—â—ter by manie huÌ„dred yeres their sucâ—â—â—on is alowed in the scriptures but the 〈◊〉 is successour in nothing saue in that â—â—â—er deâ—â—ed his maister or when as hee 〈◊〉 Christ carnall worldlie counsell not to suffer but to spare him selfe Otherwayâ— he succeedeth not Peter I say neither â— place nor in doctrine neither in forme of gâ—uernemeÌ„t nor in maner of liuing so that tâ— popish church canne in no wise bee the trâ— church of Christ as may easilie bee proueâ— The papistes talke of Fathers and of coâ—sent but what is that without the warraâ— of Gods word The papistes will not be of tâ— contemptible church they say that is despâ—sed in the world Christ saith that his churâ— must be so They shall deliuer you vp â— be afflicted and shall kill you and yoâ— shal be hated of al nations for my namâ— sake Againe he saith If the worlde haâ— you knowe that it hated mee before hated you if ye were of the worlde thâ— world would loue his own but becauâ— you are not of the world but I haue châ—sen you out of the world therefore thâ— world hateth you Remember the worâ— that I said vnto you The seruaunt is nâ— greater then his maister If they hauâ— persecuted me they will persecute yoâ— also These things haue I said vnto yoâ— that you should not bee offended Theâ— shall excommunicate you yea the timâ— will come that whosoeuer killeth youâ— I thinke that he doeth God seruice â— this is the state of the true churche here â—n earth whereby it is euident that the â—she Romishe Synagogue is not the true â—rch seeing it is so â–ª loued and honored in worlde Christ the head of the true â—rch went vp into heauen by manifolde â—ctions his members the Prophetes and â—ostles entred by the same doore of afflicâ—s not by the windowe of promotions â—d holie Paule affirmeth That whosoeâ—r will liue godlie in Christ Iesus must â—fer persecutions That our faith being â—d like golde in the furnace as Peter â—th might be found precious Thereâ—re Christ and his Apostles are poore in â—is world and like seruants readie to serue â—ers the Pope and his Prelates like worldâ—e Princes rich wealthie and lordlie Christ â—d his humble and lowlie the Pope his â—oude pompeous and haultie Christ his â—aied tribute to Caesar the Pope his take Peter pence and other payments froÌ„ Princes and nations Christ and his suffered humblie afflictions vnder Princes the Pope warreth against Princes treadeth on their neckes causeth them to kisse his pantaphles and to hold his stirrops like a Lucifer and childe of pride Christ and
God euery spirit which câ—fesseth not Iesus Christ to haue come â— the flesh is not of God wherfore the samâ— is not of God which denieth either the dâ—uine or humaine nature of Christ and tâ— true vniting of them both or derogateth any thing from the office of Christ beeingâ— king who onely hath all spirituall rule anâ— authoritie committed vnto him beeing Prophet who onely is appointed to delâ—uer vnto vs his fathers minde and willâ— and to teach vs all truth being a Priestâ— who hath offered a sweete smelling Sacrifice for vs vnto God the father euen his owne body vppon the Crosse once for all which onely Sacrifice is of force and value to purge and clense the sinnes of all those that beleeue But who be they which denie Christ in person or in office â–ª euen that Church that woulde haue Christ as hee is â—n to be in any other shape fourme then that which he receiued of the virgin Ma 〈◊〉 in sundry places at one time contrary the nature of a true body or affirmeth â—at mankinde lost through Adams fal and ansâ—ression could be saued by any other leaâ—es then onely by Christ whether it be â—y mans merits and works or by the parâ—ons and indulgences of the Pope or by â—nie other deuise of man Finally that Church which teacheth anie other mediaâ—â—â— betwixt God and man either of reâ—emption or intercession then onely Christ â—he same Church denieth Christ to haue â—ome in the flesh and therefore is not the 〈◊〉 Church of god The bare name or title of the Church is not sufficient but as gold is tried by the Touchstone so we must prooue the Church by the woorde of 〈◊〉 which is the Touchstone of all truth This Church by the preaching of the Gospell by the Lodestarre of Christ his holy â—ord hath from time to time brought the â—le of God from Gentilitie from Iuâ—me from the grosse Idolatrie whiche â— haue vsed in your Church and from â— darke dungeon of ignorance and blindnes into the cleare light shining brightnes of true knowledge Yea this same râ—ligion and doctrine which nowe we dâ— teach was deliuered first by Iesus Chriâ— vnto the Apostles then preached by them afterwardes yet not without bloodshed taught from time to time for the space â— sixe hundred yeares as the writings of aâ— the auncient Fathers doo witnesseâ— and so forwarde vntill by little and little your superstitious patched religion increased by fire and Fagot and other extremâ— tortures and cruelties These thinges being manifest I tendering your saluation â— which doo call your â—elfe a Catholik or Papiste doo most earnestly admonish you that according vnto your promise yoâ— would yeeld your self vnto the eternal God who knoweth all secrets and abhorreth all hipocrisie Let Christ Iesus by the scepter of his woorde rule your conscience and direct your hart in his trueth suffer the holy spirit of God to instill the sweete tast of Gods holy woord into your minde that you may hate your owne ignorance and blindenesse and study to attaine the true light and to bee guided by the motions of the same comfortable spirit of God which the Lord graunt to you for his Christs sake Papist Aske of him what Church it was which â— hath induced the Christian people thoâ—row out the whole worlde to giue most â— humble credit in all pointes to the holy â—â—â—kes of the Byble what Church hath had 〈◊〉 discerning and seuering them from oâ—â—â— writinges of all sortes what Churche â—â—th had the custody of them and most safeâ—â— hath preserued them for the necessarie vse of Gods people and from the corruption of aduersaries aswell Iewes as Heretiks of all sortes and let the Protestant declare vnto me that this congregation hath had from time to time or euer had any right herein â—â— anie other Church sauing the catholike Church and I recante Answeare I Do merueile with what face you can â—rrogate vnto your Church that you haue moued the people throughout the â—orlde to giue credit vnto the scriptures 〈◊〉 that your Church hath deterred the â—â—â—ople from reading them affirminge â—â—â—m to be harde and difficult daungeâ—â—â—us to the simple and vnlearned a nose 〈◊〉 waxe a shippmans hose a dead letter and either of enuie vnto the poore souâ— whom you call dogges and hogges aâ— sing this text giue not that which is hâ— vnto dogges or of hate vnto the scripturâ— you haue kept the key knowledge whâ— is the holy woorde of God vnder a vaâ— in an vnknowne tounge fearinge aâ— iudge lest the misty cloudes of your persticious deuises would vanish awâ— if the bright beames of Christ his Gâ—pell might shine in simple mens mindâ— What humble credite do you giue vnto Scriptures seing that one of the pillerâ— your Church saieth That the Scripturâ— are not autenticall or of credite bâ— onelie by the warrant and aucthoriâ— of your Churche of Rome an other your Doctoures hath these woordeâ— The Apostles saith he when they deliuâ—red the Creed neuer said I beleue tâ— holy Byble or the holy Gospel but the saide I beleeue the holy Churche Aâ— likewise in an other place he saith â— any man haue the exposition of thâ— Church of Rome touchinge any placâ— of the Scriptures although he neitheâ— knowe nor vnderstand whether or howâ— it agreeth with the wordes of the Scriptures yet he hath the very word of God. â—nd how doubtful vncertain al your inâ—â—â—pretations be Cusanus a Cardinall 〈◊〉 the Churche of Rome sheweth It 〈◊〉 no meruaile saith he though the practise of the Churche expounde the â—â—â—iptures at one time one way and at â—â—â—other time another way For the vnderâ—â—â—nding or the sence of the scriptures runâ—â—â—h with the practise and that sence so agreeinge with the practise is the quicâ—â—ninge spirite And therefore the scripâ—â—res followe the Churche but contraâ—iewise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures And whereas in verie â—eede the scriptures be the light that geâ—â—â—th sight to the blinde and rightly called 〈◊〉 candle whereby the theefe is taken the truth which doeth disclose all errours 〈◊〉 rule to square and frame mans lyfe 〈◊〉 power of God vnto saluation I muse â—â—â—uely howe you daâ—â— presume to keepe his hid treasure from Gods inheritance â—nd yet preteÌ„d that you do perswade them â—â—â—stantly to giue most humble credit thereâ—â—â—to And forsomuche as you do challeng â—â—â—e discerning seuering the Scriptures â—â—â—om other writinges of all sortes you haue in verie deed not onely corrupted the trâ— sense of the Bible but also abased the authoritie of the scriptures and haue madâ— equall or rather preferred your owne decrees and constitutions before the holâ— Bible the errours in your old translatioÌ„ oâ— the Bible which you falsly ascribe vntâ— S. Ierome be so manifest so grosse thaâ— euery childe may easily espy them as iâ— the third chapter of Genesis these wordeâ— are to be found Ipsa conteret caput tuuâ— She shall breake
they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
the which â—uilding Christe is the chiefe corner stone â—hough you haue taught the people of God â—therwise affirming the Pope to be head â—f Gods Churche and to be of equiualent â—ucthoritie with Christ One of your scholeâ—octors saith That Christe and the Pope â—ake one consistorie and sinne onely â—xcepted the Pope can doe whatsoeuer God himselfe can doe And euen as you â—eale with Christe for the preheminence â—nd rule so you will appointe him a body â—r no bodie or alter or chaunge his bodie â—s you liste You cannot limit GOD â—is Church for his Church is in manie or â—ewe as his heauenlie wisedome appoyneth And therfore Christ saith That whenâ—oeuer two or three are gathered togeaâ—her in my name I am in the middest of â—hem And as one doth say as is before â—lledged Although there were but two â—en remayning in the worlde yet in â—hem two the Churche of God which â—s the vnitie of the faithfull shoulde bee saued Therefore though man be ignorant whome God hath elected vnto saluation and who be of Christ his bodie yet God who vnderstandeth all secretes doeth knowe who are his And euerie member of Christ hath the spirite of God to assure his conscience that he is the childe of god God graunt you that inwarde testimonie and the comfort of the same spirit grounded vpon the Gospell which they doe feele in themselues Then will you neuer be so carefull for these outwarde shewes Papist 15 SHew me that the church which ought to be a Christian mans stay in troubles â–ª and tempests of doctrine might become so hidden or so close that no man could finde her or so hartlesse that she coulde succour no man nor instruct anie man in hâ— doubte of conscience or distresse in faith Proue me that there may be such a decay â— Goddes spirit truth and churche And I recant Answeare 15 IT seemeth that you are harping alwaieâ— vppon one string but if you woulde dilâ—gently waie with your selfe the frailtie man who is dailie slipping away from dâ—tifull obedience towardes God and consider what bridles and bittes God hath ordained to pull him backe from the libertie of sinne to preserue him from daungers You shal finde other staies to grounde maÌ„s faith and settle his coÌ„science then anie such outwarde shewe of a visible Church as you imagin The ground worke and foundation of faith and the staie and buttresse of mans conscience are the holie scriptures which Dauid the blessed Prophet calleth the Mountaines vnto which the faithful shoulde lift vp their eyes which are the onely comforte to theÌ„ in their troubles Christ exhorteth vs To searche the scriptures for they do beare witnes of him who is our peace our iustification our sanctification our redemptioÌ„ The Apostle assureth vs That the scriptures are the power of god vnto saluatioÌ„ to as many as beleeue whether they be Iewes or Gentils What need we any further proofe to teach vs that faith is staied vpoÌ„ the scriptures then that which is spoken by Paule the Apostle â–ª Faith saith he commeth of hearing and hearing by the worde of God. Howe shall we knowe God â–ª Howe shall we knowe Christ How shal we know Gods spirit howe shall wee discerne true faith from a fonde opinion but onely by the scriptures Faith as Saint Augustine affirmeth doth stagger if the aucthority of gods scriptures do faile True faith true knowledge and a right conscience are grounded vpon the worde of god Constantine that worthie Emperour spake openly in the Nicene Councel to the like effecte The writinges saith he of the Euangelistes and Apostles and the oracles of the auncient Prophets do instruct vs plainely what we ought to vnderstande and beleue of Gods will and pleasure and therfore all contention set aparte let vs seeke the solution of those thinges which bee propounded out of the scriptures of God which by the testimonie of the holy Ghost be able to instruct vnto all good workes The doctrine of the scriptures teacheth especiallie these foure principles Knowledge Faith Godlines Iustice true brauÌ„ches of a christian mans life It is the parte of euerie Christian to learne to knowe God the Creatour and maker of all thinges to knowe Christ the the redemer of mankinde to knowe the holie Ghost the spirit of sanctificatioÌ„ what benefits he hath ond doth receiue by these â—hree persons vnited in one Godhead which â—noweledge the wise man calleth Perfect righteousnes and the roote of immoralitie Also our Sauiour Christ saith That â—his is eternall life that they know thee â—he onely true GOD and Iesus Christ whom thou hast sent Man created according to gods Image may not be like the Horse Mule in whom there is no vnderstanding or to bee such as God by the Prophet complaineth vpon That the oxe knoweth his owner the Asse his maâ—ters cribb But Israel hath not knowne â—ny people hath no vnderstanding It beâ—oueth him to beleue in these three persons and all thinges which he knoweth out of gods booke It is his part and duty moreouer to practise pietie and godlinesse towâ—rdes God iustice and vprigh dealing towardes man But I knowe what you â—hoote at Verely to haue vs to beleue and â—o stay our selues vpon the aucthoritie of your Church of Rome and the vnwritten â—erities of the same Church Because the true Church of God hath not alwaies appeared to the view of the whole worlde in outwarde pompe or shewe Therefore your indeuour to perswade yet I trust in vaine that man doubtfull in conscience and wauering in faith coulde receiue no comfort by that close inuisible and hartles Church as you call it I haue proued before that God hath raised vp in all ages since the beginninge of the worlde such as haue giuen a testimonie of their zeale and true religion vnto the worlde You must not limit and appointe God his Church or vpon whom hee shall power out his graces or in what measure he shall bestow his spirite God by the ministerie of his woorde doeth cure and heale suche as be broken in heart geueth medicine to heale their sickenesse maketh strong the weake faith and doth comforte the feeble minde of man by his holie spirite Gods spirite cannot decay or be of lesse power or Gods churche and spouse lesse honourable albeit there were but one simple man in the vniuersall worlde to mans iudgement which doeth imbrace the trueth of god Though Abell was but one thoughe Elias in his time was but one Noah and his housholde but a small number Christe our Sauiour and his simple Fishermen his Apostles men of no reputation a very few in respect of all the world besides had God therefore â—o Churche in these times Notwithstanding the law was corrupted before Christ the true worshipp of God cleane extinguised all the people geuen for the most part â—o idolatrie yea and no prophet to reproue the people from Malachie his time vntill
sense and â—ere not able to expound and interpret his â—wn meaning Saint Paule saith That we must to not heare an Angel if he bring aâ—ie thing contrarie to the Gospell Augustine expounding these woordes saith Whether it be of Christ or of his church or of anie thing else whatsoeuer pertaining either to our life or to our faith I wil not onely say if I my self but if an Angel from heauen shal teach vs otherwise then we haue receiued in the bookes of the Lawe and the Gospel holde him accursed An other godly father saith As what Gold soeuer is without the Temple is not sanctified so euery sense and interpretation which is without the holy scripture although vnto some it seeme woonderfull yet it is not holy because it is not conteined in the sense of the Scripture Call to remembraunce I praye you how vntruely and cleane contrarie to the true meaning of the holy Ghost your Church hath interpreted the Scriptures As vpon these woordes Fiet vnum ouile et vnus Pastor your Church giueth this exposition to these woordes There shal be one folde and one shepheard we may not vnderstand it of Christ but of some other minister that ruleth in his roome One saide vnto Pope Leo in the CouÌ„cel holden at Lateran Behold the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda is come the roote of Dauid c. O most blessed Leo wee haue wayted for thee to be our Sauiour So it is likewise sayde The Pope beeing the light is come into the worlde and men haue loued the darkenesse more then light euery man that dooth euell hateth the light that is to say the Pope and commeth not to the light These woordes are to be vnderstoode of our sauiour Christ who in deede is the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda and commeth of the roote of Dauid who is the lighte that commeth into the world and see how blasphemouslie your Church doth wrest these woordes and applieth them vnto the Pope Againe Pope Sextus affirmeth That hee can neuer be forgiuen whosoeuer he be which accuseth the Pope And thus he reasoneth He that sinneth against the holy Ghost that is to say Against the Pope shall neuer be forgiuen neither in this world nor in the world to come These woordes of the Scripture are thus to bee taken That they shall neuer haue forgiuenes at Gods hands which sinne against the holy Ghost And the Pope wil haue them to be meant of him I coulde rehearse infinite places to this same effecte and purpose But let the indifferent reader iudge by these fewe places howe vntruely the church of Rome dooth interpret the holy scriptures But let them beware betimes of the heauy iudgmeÌ„ts of god Wo be vnto theÌ„ that cal good euel euel good darkenes light light darknes sower sweete and sweete sower What is this but to diminish the authoritie of the heauenly woorde of God God dooth sharpely threaten That if anie man shal adde vnto these thinges GOD shall adde vnto him those plagues that are writteÌ„ in this booke if anie man shal diminish of the wordes of the booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life out of the holy citie and from those things which are written in this boke God grauÌ„t you true repentaÌ„ce that you may imbrace Christ his worde and escape these threatnings of God. Papist 17 MOreouer let anie man prooue vnto me that the true only church of god may at anie time be voyd of a spirit of falsly interpret any senteÌ„ce of holy scripture or induce any errours among the people or approoue any vnprofitable or hurtful vsage amongst Christians or that she suffreth any daÌ„nable abuse in her religion without open reprehension thereof prooue any of these proofes And I recant Answeare 17 I Haue prooued before at large that the true Church of God is neuer without the comfort of gods spirit which spirit doeth not visibly and openly in anie forme or substance reueale and shewe him selfe but inwardly ingraffe in the hartes of the elect whether they be manie or fewe the doctrine of the Gospell doth increase true knoweledge in them doth worke true sanctificatioÌ„ holinesse and doth guide leade them in al good actions I haue proued also that gods true church doth not corrupt and falsly interpret the holy scriptures as your Church of Rome doth in wresting and wringing the sence of the scriptures in comparing it to A nose of waxe a shipmans hose or in calling it A dead and dumbe letter But the true sheepe doth gladly here the voice of the shephearde do acknowledge all thinges to be contained in the scripture necessary for mans saluation doe confesse no hardnesse or difficulty to be in the worde of God But that the holie Ghost doth sufficiently expounde himselfe and one place expresse another The true Church doth not teach the people anie errours anie vnwritten verities any inuentions of her owne braine or anie thing touching doctrine or life which shee findeth not written in the canonicall scriptures doth not approue anie vnprofitable vsages anie fond customes or suffer anie damnable abuses in religion without open reprehension dooth finde faulte and doth openlie inueigh against all thinges which be mixt with Gods true worshippe and seruice by the deuise of anie man whatsoeuer and will alowe nothing to be vsed amongst gods people but onely that which is warranted by the worde of god In this your treatise albeit you speake generallie yet you haue a special meaning But truly euen in that thing wherewith you charge vs you bee most giltie your selfe For if those be worthily called Abuses in religion which be matters of faith and vsed in the Church contrarie to the expresse worde of God so that Christ may be vmpeere lett al indifferent persons iudge whether your Church of Rome or we which professe the Gospell doe more abuse true religion and induce erours amongest the people We say that wee must pray only vnto God in the name of Christ and vnto none other your Church of Rome saith That wee must pray vnto the saints departed and vse them as meanes for vs vnto God. Neuerthelesse God saith Call vpon mee in the day of trouble I wil heare thee Dauid The Prophet saith When I was in trouble I called vpon the Lord and he heard me And againe he saith I will confesse my sinnes vnto the Lorde and so hee forgaue me the wickednesse of my sinne Christ saith Whatsoeuer you aske my Father in my name hee will giue it you Shewe me now by what aucthoritie of scripture you can disprooue this and prooue your inuocation of Saintes we say That it is god onely which forgiueth sinnes that for Christes sake whose blood doth purge vs froÌ„ al sinne You say that the Pope can forgiue sinne and giue pardon for many hundred yea thousand yeares and that he can doo