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scripture_n authority_n church_n primitive_a 2,508 5 9.0550 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A52063 A vindication of the answer to the humble remonstrance from the unjust imputation of frivolousnesse and falshood Wherein, the cause of liturgy and episcopacy is further debated. By the same Smectymnuus. Smectymnuus.; Marshall, Stephen, 1594?-1655. aut; Calamy, Edmund, 1600-1666. aut; Young, Thomas, 1587-1655. aut; Newcomen, Matthew, 1610?-1669. aut; Spurstowe, William, 1605?-1666. aut 1654 (1654) Wing M799; ESTC R217369 134,306 232

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20._o of_o act_n presbyter_n and_o bishop_n to_o be_v all_o one_o do_v we_o prove_v the_o bishop_n describe_v in_o timothy_n and_o titus_n to_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o in_o name_n and_o office_n with_o a_o presbyter_n do_v we_o prove_v that_o their_o church_n be_v all_o govern_v communi_fw-la consilio_fw-la presbyterorum_fw-la all_o shall_v be_v grant_v we_o and_o yet_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o episcopacy_n be_v still_o hold_v up_o by_o this_o sleight_n by_o tell_v we_o that_o before_o the_o apostle_n leave_v the_o earth_n they_o make_v over_o their_o authority_n to_o some_o prime_a man_n demand_v where_o this_o be_v extant_a the_o angel_n of_o the_o seven_o church_n be_v plead_v present_o and_o partly_o because_o we_o have_v no_o other_o scripture_n of_o latter_a inspiration_n and_o edition_n whereby_o to_o prove_v the_o contrary_n another_o inducement_n be_v because_o the_o writer_n near_o the_o apostle_n time_n make_v frequent_a mention_n of_o a_o bishop_n and_o as_o they_o 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a_o dangerous_a motion_n of_o innovation_n sure_o if_o the_o remonstrants_n word_n may_v go_v for_o proof_n it_o be_v prove_v else_o not_o that_o bishop_n be_v of_o more_o than_o humane_a ordinance_n and_o so_o long_a continuance_n and_o how_o advantageous_a to_o the_o good_a of_o church_n and_o state_n acta_fw-la probant_fw-la and_o though_o motion_n of_o innovation_n may_v be_v dangerous_a yet_o motion_n of_o renovation_n be_v not_o non_fw-fr est_fw-fr pudor_fw-la ad_fw-la meliora_fw-la transire_fw-la ambr._n it_o be_v no_o shame_n to_o amend_v 4._o whether_o these_o answerer_n have_v the_o wit_n or_o grace_n to_o understand_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o the_o divine_a right_n of_o episcopacy_n we_o will_v not_o impute_v it_o to_o want_v of_o wit_n or_o grace_n in_o the_o remonstrant_fw-la but_o sure_o himself_o do_v not_o clear_o understand_v it_o he_o be_v so_o unconstant_a to_o his_o opinion_n but_o whether_o the_o remonstrant_a or_o his_o answerer_n understand_v the_o right_n of_o episcopacy_n better_o let_v the_o reader_n to_o who_o censure_n both_o in_o this_o controversy_n must_v stand_v or_o fall_v determine_v for_o our_o part_n we_o hope_v we_o understand_v what_o jus_o divinum_fw-la mean_n but_o do_v ingenuous_o confess_v we_o have_v neither_o wit_n nor_o grace_n to_o understand_v the_o jus_o divinum_fw-la of_o episcopacy_n 5._o whether_o there_o be_v any_o question_n at_o all_o in_o the_o five_o question_n 157._o yes_o certain_o if_o the_o remonstrant_n will_v not_o have_v baulk_v that_o which_o he_o know_v not_o how_o to_o take_v away_o the_o distinction_n of_o apostolical_a right_n which_o say_v we_o be_v either_o such_o as_o be_v found_v upon_o the_o act_n or_o epistle_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o be_v we_o grant_v divine_a or_o such_o as_o be_v not_o record_v in_o their_o write_n and_o be_v only_o of_o thing_n report_v to_o be_v introduce_v into_o the_o church_n the_o apostle_n yet_o live_v now_o if_o the_o remonstrant_a hold_n episcopacy_n to_o be_v of_o apostolical_a right_n in_o the_o first_o sense_n why_o do_v he_o then_o grant_v we_o in_o express_a term_n that_o in_o original_a authority_n of_o scripture_n bishop_n and_o presbyter_n be_v original_o the_o sam●_n 47._o and_o why_o do_v he_o in_o the_o same_o page_n make_v his_o retreat_n from_o the_o write_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o the_o monument_n of_o succeed_a time_n if_o he_o hold_v it_o in_o the_o latter_a sense_n these_o two_o thing_n yet_o remain_v to_o be_v do_v first_o he_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o bishop_n in_o a_o superiority_n of_o power_n over_o presbyter_n be_v introduce_v into_o the_o church_n the_o apostle_n yet_o live_v and_o answer_v his_o friend_n cassander_n and_o our_o other_o testimony_n produce_v to_o the_o contrary_n second_o to_o prove_v that_o such_o thing_n may_v be_v of_o divine_a right_n whereof_o
legion_n as_o man_n he_o will_v meet_v they_o undismayed_a and_o say_v with_o holy_a david_n though_o a_o host_n shall_v encamp_v against_o i_o my_o heart_n shall_v not_o fear_v but_o with_o just_a confidence_n i_o glad_o fly_v to_o the_o bar_n of_o this_o high_a and_o honourable_a court_n and_o yet_o by_o his_o leave_n he_o think_v it_o his_o best_a wisdom_n to_o fly_v from_o this_o bar_n and_o to_o dedicate_v his_o book_n to_o the_o king_n majesty_n alone_o and_o not_o to_o the_o two_o house_n and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v the_o apostle_n practice_n be_v so_o irrefragable_a for_o they_o that_o if_o we_o do_v but_o add_v the_o unquestionable_a practice_n of_o their_o immediate_a successor_n he_o know_v not_o what_o more_o light_n can_v be_v desire_v for_o the_o manifestation_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o his_o opinion_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o king_n he_o say_v that_o if_o he_o do_v not_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o we_o have_v abuse_v our_o reader_n with_o false_a show_n of_o misalleadge_v antiquity_n and_o mere_o colourable_a pretence_n of_o proof_n let_v the_o blemish_n of_o his_o reputation_n lead_v way_n to_o the_o sharp_a censure_n upon_o his_o person_n just_o like_o the_o author_n of_o episcopacy_n by_o divine_a right_n who_o be_v so_o confident_a against_o lay_v elder_n that_o he_o offer_v to_o forfeit_v his_o life_n to_o justice_n and_o his_o reputation_n to_o shame_n if_o any_o man_n live_v can_v show_v that_o ever_o there_o be_v a_o rule_v elder_a in_o the_o world_n till_o farel_n and_o viret_n first_o create_v they_o and_o yet_o he_o can_v not_o but_o know_v that_o archbishop_n whitgift_n as_o well_o see_v in_o antiquity_n as_o himself_o confess_v that_o there_o be_v rule_v elder_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n thus_o also_o do_v bishop_n king_n saravia_n himself_o think_v the_o government_n of_o rule_v elder_n to_o be_v good_a and_o profitable_a in_o his_o answer_n to_o our_o argument_n sometime_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o we_o prove_v nothing_o but_o our_o bold_a ignorance_n and_o absurd_a inconsequence_n otherwhile_o he_o say_v poor_a argument_n scarce_o worthy_a of_o a_o pass_n these_o be_v trifle_v cavil_v not_o worth_a the_o answer_n verbal_a exception_n which_o will_v sink_v like_o light_a froth_n mere_a declamation_n worthy_a of_o no_o answer_n but_o contempt_n and_o scorn_n forbear_v reader_n if_o you_o can_v to_o smile_v at_o this_o curious_a subtlety_n what_o cabalism_n have_v we_o here_o our_o query_n be_v make_v up_o of_o nothing_o but_o spite_n and_o slander_n his_o ordinary_a answer_n toour_fw-mi testimony_n out_o of_o antiquity_n be_v this_o author_n be_v misalledge_v that_o father_n abuse_v this_o council_n shuffle_v up_o with_o little_a fidelity_n away_o with_o your_o unprove_v illustration_n and_o unregardable_a testimony_n and_o this_o be_v all_o the_o answer_n he_o give_v throughout_o the_o whole_a book_n he_o endeavour_v to_o render_v we_o to_o the_o reader_n as_o destitute_a of_o all_o learning_n as_o if_o our_o read_n have_v never_o go_v beyond_o a_o polyanthea_n he_o call_v we_o bold_o ignorant_a and_o that_o we_o will_v make_v the_o reader_n believe_v that_o we_o have_v see_v a_o father_n and_o that_o we_o will_v seem_v to_o have_v see_v the_o canon_n law_n and_o that_o it_o be_v enough_o we_o can_v show_v a_o little_a read_n to_o no_o purpose_n but_o in_o all_o these_o and_o many_o more_o such_o like_a sarcasme_n and_o vain_a rhetorication_n he_o do_v but_o act_v the_o part_n of_o his_o hierarchicall_a predecessor_n who_o chief_a answer_n have_v be_v scoff_n and_o scorn_n and_o therefore_o what_o learned_a rivetus_n say_v of_o bishop_n montague_n may_v with_o as_o much_o truth_n be_v aver_v of_o this_o nameless_a author_n montacutius_n vir_fw-la certedoctus_fw-la sed_fw-la admodum_fw-la praefidens_fw-la &_o tumidus_fw-la aliorum_fw-la contemptor_n &_o suggillator_fw-la and_o in_o another_o place_n 95._o non_fw-la potest_fw-la vir_fw-la ille_fw-la sine_fw-la convitijs_fw-la quemquam_fw-la a_o quo_fw-la dissentit_fw-la vel_fw-la in_o levissimis_fw-la nominare_fw-la but_o what_o strength_n and_o weight_n there_o be_v in_o such_o kind_n of_o argument_n and_o answer_n let_v the_o wise_a reader_n judge_n and_o yet_o not_o withstand_v all_o this_o confidence_n &_o thrasonical_a boast_n we_o desire_v thou_o to_o observe_v four_o that_o if_o the_o whole_a book_n be_v divide_v into_o four_o part_n there_o be_v one_o quarter_n of_o which_o he_o make_v no_o mention_n but_o pass_v it_o over_o either_o with_o scorn_n or_o silence_n and_o where_o our_o argument_n be_v strong_a there_o he_o slide_v away_o without_o answer_v which_o can_v but_o make_v the_o judicious_a reader_n believe_v that_o he_o think_v the_o iron_n to_o hot_a for_o he_o and_o therefore_o will_v not_o touch_v it_o lest_o it_o shall_v burn_v his_o own_o finger_n as_o himself_o say_v pag._n 21._o and_o even_o in_o those_o thing_n wherein_o he_o undertake_v to_o answer_v we_o we_o can_v but_o give_v notice_n that_o we_o have_v confitentem_fw-la reum_fw-la and_o in_o effect_n the_o cause_n grant_v in_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v most_o material_a for_o when_o we_o prove_v from_o scripture_n the_o identity_n of_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n both_o in_o name_n and_o office_n he_o tell_v we_o with_o a_o little_a vary_v of_o our_o word_n we_o idle_o lose_v our_o labour_n it_o need_v be_v no_o scruple_n to_o we_o it_o be_v in_o express_a term_n grant_v when_o we_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v not_o three_o degree_n of_o ministry_n in_o the_o scripture_n to_o wit_n bishop_n presbyter_n and_o deacous_a he_o answer_v it_o be_v grant_v you_o speak_v of_o the_o apostle_n write_n but_o i_o of_o their_o successor_n he_o grant_v also_o that_o the_o primitive_a bishop_n be_v elect_v by_o the_o clergy_n and_o people_n that_o bishop_n ought_v not_o to_o have_v sole_a power_n in_o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o delegate_v their_o power_n to_o other_o that_o the_o ordinary_a manage_n of_o secular_a employment_n be_v improper_a for_o they_o and_o he_o do_v almost_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v lay-elder_n in_o antiquity_n for_o whereas_o the_o author_n of_o episcopacy_n by_o divine_a right_n affirm_v that_o the_o name_n of_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n in_o all_o antiquity_n comprehend_v none_o but_o preacher_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o only_o may_v be_v call_v seniores_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la though_o some_o other_o may_v have_v the_o title_n of_o seniores_fw-la populi_fw-la because_o of_o their_o civil_a authority_n this_o author_n acknowledge_v that_o beside_o pastor_n and_o beside_o the_o magistrate_n and_o elder_n of_o the_o city_n there_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o antiquity_n seniores_fw-la ecclesiastici_fw-la indeed_o he_o say_v that_o these_o be_v but_o as_o our_o churchwarden_n or_o vestry_n man_n but_o how_o true_a this_o be_v the_o reader_n shall_v see_v in_o due_a place_n last_o he_o grant_v that_o all_o that_o we_o say_v in_o the_o postscript_n about_o the_o popish_a prelate_n be_v true_a celari_fw-la non_fw-la potuit_fw-la negari_fw-la non_fw-la debuit_fw-la and_o for_o what_o we_o say_v of_o the_o protestant_a bishop_n he_o deny_v not_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o only_o he_o chide_v for_o tax_v all_o for_o the_o fault_n of_o some_o and_o in_o these_o thing_n wherein_o he_o do_v diametrical_o oppose_v we_o he_o do_v frequent_o contradict_v himself_o and_o his_o best_a friend_n in_o his_o epistle_n dedicatory_a he_o profess_v that_o he_o tax_v not_o our_o ability_n yet_o in_o the_o same_o epistle_n he_o call_v we_o impotent_a assailant_n and_o afterward_o man_n of_o weak_a judgement_n and_o strong_a malice_n and_o man_n that_o will_v seem_v to_o have_v see_v a_o father_n and_o that_o all_o that_o we_o say_v be_v nothing_o but_o bold_a ignorance_n pag._n 94._o he_o say_v that_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o ordinary_a evangelist_n be_v a_o fancy_n and_o a_o dream_n and_o yet_o elsewhere_o he_o make_v every_o preacher_n of_o the_o gospel_n to_o be_v a_o evangelist_n in_o his_o remonstrant_a and_o in_o his_o defence_n he_o say_v that_o bishop_n have_v be_v every_o where_o throughout_o all_o the_o region_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n and_o that_o all_o church_n throughout_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n have_v uniform_o and_o constant_o maintain_v episcopacy_n and_o yet_o elsewhere_o he_o deny_v that_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o bishop_n be_v every_o where_o and_o confess_v that_o there_o be_v less_o noble_a church_n that_o do_v not_o confer_v to_o episcopal_a government_n pag._n 161._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o for_o 1600_o year_n the_o name_n of_o bishop_n have_v be_v appropriate_v in_o a_o plain_a contradistinction_n to_o the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n but_o in_o other_o place_n he_o often_o grant_v that_o the_o name_n be_v confound_v and_o ascribe_v to_o presbyter_n be_v well_o as_o bishop_n in_o his_o 36._o pag._n he_o say_v that_o in_o
who_o have_v labour_v about_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n these_o five_o hundred_o year_n of_o who_o he_o name_v abundance_n have_v teach_v that_o all_o pastor_n be_v they_o intitulate_v bishop_n or_o priest_n have_v equal_a authority_n and_o power_n by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o by_o this_o the_o reader_n may_v know_v doctor_n reinolds_n his_o judgement_n concern_v episcopacy_n there_o be_v one_o thing_n more_o belong_v to_o this_o section_n as_o to_o the_o proper_a seat_n and_o that_o be_v the_o establishment_n which_o he_o seek_v to_o episcopacy_n from_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n to_o which_o we_o have_v answer_v that_o law_n be_v repealable_a the_o parliament_n have_v a_o nomotheticall_a power_n he_o answers_z though_o law_n be_v repealable_a 46._o yet_o fundamental_a law_n be_v not_o subject_a to_o alteration_n upon_o personal_a abuse_n second_o that_o he_o speak_v not_o against_o a_o impossibility_n but_o a_o easiness_n of_o change_n which_o our_o guiltiness_n will_v willing_o overlook_v but_o consider_v we_o beseech_v you_o how_o fit_o be_v episcopal_a government_n make_v a_o piece_n of_o the_o fundamental_a law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n how_o do_v the_o kingdom_n then_o once_o stand_v without_o bishop_n as_o in_o the_o very_a page_n you_o have_v now_o to_o answer_v you_o may_v have_v see_v once_o it_o do_v for_o do_v not_o the_o marginal_a tell_v you_o from_o sir_n edward_n coke_n or_o rather_o from_o a_o act_n report_v by_o he_o in_o the_o 23_o year_n of_o edward_n the_o first_o that_o the_o holy_a church_n be_v found_v in_o the_o state_n of_o prelacy_n within_o the_o realm_n of_o england_n by_o the_o king_n and_o his_o progenitor_n which_o your_o guiltiness_n will_v needs_o overlook_v for_o fear_v you_o shall_v see_v that_o there_o be_v a_o king_n of_o this_o realm_n of_o england_n before_o there_o be_v a_o prelacy_n and_o how_o then_o be_v episcopacy_n one_o of_o the_o fundamental_o of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o whereas_o you_o say_v you_o speak_v only_o against_o a_o easiness_n of_o change_n read_v your_o word_n in_o the_o eighteen_o page_n of_o your_o remonstrance_n a_o man_n will_v think_v it_o be_v plea_n enough_o to_o challenge_v a_o reverend_a respect_n and_o a_o immunity_n from_o all_o thought_n of_o alteration_n be_v this_o to_o speak_v against_o a_o easiness_n or_o rather_o against_o a_o possibility_n of_o change_n for_o your_o conclusion_n that_o thing_n indifferent_a or_o good_a have_v by_o continuance_n and_o general_a approbation_n be_v well_o root_v in_o church_n and_o state_n may_v not_o upon_o light_a ground_n be_v pull_v up_o good_a sir_n never_o trouble_v yourself_o about_o such_o a_o indifferent_a thing_n as_o episcopacy_n be_v never_o fear_v but_o if_o episcopacy_n be_v root_v up_o it_o will_v be_v do_v by_o such_o hand_n as_o will_v not_o do_v it_o upon_o light_a ground_n sect_n v._o they_o that_o will_v defend_v the_o divine_a right_n of_o episcopacy_n derive_v the_o pedigree_n of_o it_o from_o no_o less_o than_o apostolical_a and_o in_o that_o right_n divine_a institution_n so_o do_v this_o remonstrant_a this_o we_o labour_v in_o this_o section_n to_o disprove_v and_o show_v that_o it_o may_v be_v say_v of_o our_o bishop_n as_o of_o those_o man_n ezra_n 62._o these_o man_n seek_v their_o register_n among_o those_o that_o be_v reckon_v by_o genealogy_n but_o they_o be_v not_o find_v therefore_o be_v they_o as_o pollute_v put_v from_o the_o priesthood_n for_o the_o bishop_n who_o pedigree_n be_v derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n be_v no_o other_o than_o presbyter_n this_o we_o evince_v by_o four_o medium_n out_o of_o scripture_n but_o insist_v only_o upon_o two_o the_o identity_n of_o their_o name_n and_o office_n before_o we_o come_v to_o the_o remonstrants_n answer_n we_o will_v mind_v the_o reader_n of_o what_o the_o remonstrant_a say_v that_o we_o have_v a_o better_a faculty_n at_o gather_v then_o at_o strew_v 128._o which_o if_o we_o have_v we_o shall_v here_o make_v good_a use_n of_o our_o faculty_n in_o gather_v the_o choice_a flower_n which_o himself_o have_v scatter_v yield_v unto_o we_o the_o main_a scripture_n ground_n whereby_o the_o patron_n of_o episcopacy_n have_v endeavour_v to_o uphold_v their_o cause_n for_o himself_o confess_v the_o bishop_n cause_n to_o be_v bad_a if_o it_o stand_v not_o by_o divine_a right_n and_o compare_v the_o leave_v of_o divine_a right_n 125._o and_o support_v themselves_o by_o the_o indulgence_n and_o munificence_n of_o religious_a prince_n 49._o unto_o the_o evil_a condition_n of_o such_o man_n who_o when_o god_n have_v withdraw_v himself_o make_v flesh_n their_o arm_n and_o whether_o himself_o have_v not_o surrender_v up_o this_o divine_a right_n judge_v by_o that_o which_o follow_v our_o main_a argument_n be_v that_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n in_o the_o original_a authority_n of_o scripture_n be_v the_o same_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o name_n of_o himself_o and_o his_o party_n 47._o this_o be_v in_o express_a term_n grant_v by_o we_o we_o argue_v it_o further_o that_o we_o never_o find_v in_o scripture_n any_o other_o order_n of_o ministry_n but_o bishop_n and_o deacon_n he_o answer_v brethren_n you_o may_v have_v spare_v to_o tell_v i_o that_o which_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o before_o and_o add_v that_o when_o we_o allege_v the_o apostle_n write_n for_o the_o identity_n of_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n we_o oppose_v not_o his_o assertion_n 48._o because_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o monument_n of_o immediate_a succession_n to_o the_o apostolic_a time_n but_o we_o of_o the_o write_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o for_o the_o two_o other_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o identity_n of_o the_o qualification_n of_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n for_o their_o office_n and_o ordination_n to_o their_o office_n he_o answer_v ne_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d quidem_fw-la and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o that_o the_o reader_n may_v not_o perceive_v how_o the_o remonstrant_a betray_v his_o own_o cause_n he_o deal_v like_o the_o fish_n sepia_n and_o cast_v out_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o black_a ink_n before_o the_o eye_n of_o the_o reader_n that_o so_o he_o may_v escape_v without_o observation_n but_o we_o will_v trace_v he_o and_o find_v he_o out_o where_o he_o think_v himself_o most_o secure_a for_o first_o he_o false_o quote_v our_o answer_n whereas_o we_o say_v that_o in_o original_a authority_n bishop_n &_o presbyter_n be_v the_o same_o he_o tell_v we_o we_o say_v that_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n go_v original_o for_o the_o same_o that_o be_v say_v he_o there_o be_v at_o first_o a_o plain_a identity_n in_o their_o denomination_n which_o two_o answer_n differ_v immane_a quantum_fw-la and_o yet_o howsoever_o this_o very_a identity_n of_o denomination_n in_o scripture_n be_v of_o no_o small_a consequence_n what_o ever_o the_o remonstrant_a make_v of_o it_o for_o the_o proper_a end_n of_o name_n be_v to_o distinguish_v thing_n according_a to_o the_o difference_n of_o their_o nature_n and_o the_o supreme_a wisdom_n of_o god_n be_v the_o imposer_n of_o these_o name_n who_o can_v neither_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o nature_n of_o these_o office_n nor_o mistake_v the_o proper_a end_n of_o the_o imposition_n of_o name_n nor_o want_v variety_n to_o express_v himself_o the_o argument_n take_v from_o the_o constant_a identity_n of_o denomination_n be_v not_o so_o contemptible_a as_o the_o remonstrant_a pretend_v especial_o consider_v that_o all_o the_o text_n bring_v to_o prove_v the_o identity_n of_o name_n prove_v as_o intrinsical_o the_o identity_n of_o office_n which_o we_o do_v clear_o manifest_a by_o that_o text_n titus_n 1._o 5_o 6_o 7._o where_o the_o apostle_n require_v presbyter_n to_o be_v thus_o and_o thus_o qualify_v render_v the_o reason_n because_o bishop_n must_v be_v so_o which_o argument_n will_v no_o way_n evince_v what_o the_o apostle_n intend_v if_o there_o be_v only_o a_o idenditie_n of_o name_n and_o not_o also_o of_o office_n and_o qualification_n when_o the_o name_n be_v the_o same_o and_o the_o office_n distinct_a who_o but_o one_o that_o care_v not_o what_o he_o affirm_v will_v infer_v the_o same_o office_n as_o a_o consequent_a from_o the_o identity_n of_o their_o name_n who_o will_v say_v that_o the_o property_n of_o the_o constellation_n call_v canis_n ought_v to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o bruit_n creature_n so_o call_v because_o they_o have_v both_o one_o name_n and_o this_o we_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o take_v the_o more_o notice_n of_o because_o the_o remonstrant_a pass_v it_o over_o in_o silence_n second_o the_o remonstrant_a seem_v to_o recant_v that_o which_o he_o have_v before_o grant_v &_o 48._o tell_v we_o that_o though_o in_o the_o apostolic_a epistle_n there_o be_v no_o nominal_a distinction_n of_o the_o title_n yet_o here_o be_v a_o real_a distinction_n and_o specification_n of_o the_o duty_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v in_o due_a place_n
mean_v and_o if_o we_o ever_o do_v use_v the_o word_n communicate_v it_o be_v only_o to_o note_v a_o community_n in_o that_o power_n not_o a_o derivation_n of_o it_o as_o for_o his_o author_n which_o he_o alleage_n for_o sole_a ordination_n let_v the_o reader_n please_v to_o view_v our_o answer_n pag._n 37._o 38._o wherein_o he_o may_v receive_v full_a satisfaction_n and_o the_o rather_o because_o the_o remonstrant_a pass_v over_o it_o the_o three_o part_n of_o that_o office_n which_o the_o bishop_n call_v they_o be_v rule_v to_o prove_v this_o to_o belong_v to_o presbyter_n as_o well_o as_o bishop_n we_o cite_v heb._n 13._o 17._o here_o the_o remonstrant_a cry_n out_o oh_o injurious_a imputation_n do_v we_o not_o give_v you_o the_o title_n of_o rectores_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la and_o do_v we_o not_o commit_v to_o you_o regimen_fw-la animarum_fw-la 53._o so_o than_o you_o grant_v this_o place_n be_v right_o both_o interpret_v and_o apply_v but_o you_o give_v we_o say_v you_o the_o title_n of_o rectores_fw-la animarum_fw-la &_o regimen_fw-la animarum_fw-la you_o give_v we_o no_o thing_n it_o be_v the_o scripture_n give_v it_o we_o yet_o you_o will_v assume_v it_o to_o yourselves_o and_o persuade_v that_o as_o the_o pope_n communicate_v to_o his_o bishop_n partem_fw-la solicitudinis_fw-la so_o you_o to_o we_o presbyter_n but_o if_o the_o scripture_n give_v we_o no_o more_o than_o you_o do_v it_o will_v prove_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d you_o make_v yourselves_o the_o sole_a pastor_n we_o but_o the_o curate_n yourselves_o chancellor_n official_o the_o sole_a judge_n we_o but_o the_o executioner_n of_o your_o and_o their_o sentence_n whether_o just_a or_o unjust_a the_o other_o text_n 1_o thes._n 5._o 12._o and_o those_o four_o thing_n observe_v from_o thence_o for_o the_o confirm_v of_o this_o assertion_n the_o remonstrant_a pass_v over_o so_o he_o do_v our_o argument_n which_o be_v this_o they_o which_o have_v the_o same_o name_n the_o same_o ordination_n to_o their_o office_n the_o same_o qualification_n for_o their_o office_n the_o same_o work_n to_o feed_v the_o flock_n of_o god_n to_o ordain_v pastor_n and_o elder_n to_o rule_v and_o govern_v they_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o but_o such_o be_v bishop_n and_o presbyter_n ergo_fw-la and_o thus_o deal_v he_o also_o with_o the_o two_o quotation_n the_o one_o of_o the_o council_n of_o aquisgra_n the_o other_o out_o of_o the_o write_n of_o smalcald_a all_o which_o be_v to_o hard_a for_o the_o remonstrant_a to_o evade_v he_o leap_v over_o to_o a_o conclusion_n of_o such_o strange_a thing_n as_o he_o never_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v in_o his_o section_n sect_n vi_o have_v from_o scripture_n manifest_v the_o identity_n of_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n in_o their_o original_a institution_n we_o apply_v ourselves_o in_o this_o section_n to_o find_v out_o the_o author_n and_o occasion_n of_o this_o imparity_n which_o now_o appear_v between_o they_o to_o expedite_v ourselves_o from_o needless_a controversy_n we_o lay_v down_o three_o particular_n as_o consent_v to_o by_o both_o side_n first_o that_o the_o first_o and_o best_a antiquity_n use_v the_o name_n of_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n promiscuous_o this_o the_o remonstrant_a subscribe_v to_o second_o that_o in_o process_n of_o time_n some_o one_o be_v honour_v with_o the_o name_n of_o bishop_n the_o rest_n be_v call_v presbyter_n 55._o this_o the_o remonstrant_a quarrel_n and_o desire_n to_o know_v what_o be_v this_o process_n of_o time_n charge_v we_o either_o with_o error_n or_o fraud_n confident_o defend_v this_o time_n have_v no_o process_n at_o all_o but_o be_v in_o the_o very_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o live_a apostle_n and_o undertake_v to_o make_v this_o good_a in_o the_o sequel_n and_o how_o he_o do_v that_o you_o shall_v find_v in_o this_o very_a section_n page_n 59_o where_n to_o that_o of_o hierom_n the_o presbyter_n govern_v the_o church_n by_o their_o common_a council_n he_o answer_v so_o they_o do_v doubtless_o altogether_o till_o episcopacy_n be_v settle_v who_o dare_v deny_v it_o here_o the_o remonstrant_n grant_v a_o process_n of_o time_n between_o the_o plant_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o apostle_n and_o the_o settle_n of_o episcopacy_n in_o the_o church_n shall_v we_o say_v now_o this_o be_v the_o remonstrants'_v either_o error_n or_o fraud_n not_o to_o set_v down_o how_o long_o it_o be_v before_o episcopacy_n be_v settle_v in_o the_o church_n let_v he_o take_v heed_n another_o time_n how_o he_o charge_v man_n with_o error_n or_o fraud_n for_o affirm_v that_o which_o himself_o can_v but_o give_v his_o suffrage_n to_o the_o three_o thing_n agree_v upon_o be_v that_o this_o be_v not_o nomen_fw-la inane_fw-la a_o idle_a title_n but_o attend_v upon_o with_o some_o kind_n of_o imparity_n the_o question_n be_v digest_v into_o these_o term_n whether_o the_o impropriation_n of_o the_o name_n and_o the_o imparity_n of_o the_o place_n and_o power_n of_o a_o bishop_n be_v of_o divine_a right_n the_o remonstrant_a for_o fear_n of_o mistake_v desire_v to_o explicate_v the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n and_o therefore_o tell_v how_o fetch_v the_o pedigree_n of_o episcopacy_n from_o apostolical_a and_o therefore_o in_o that_o right_n divine_a institution_n he_o interpret_v himself_o to_o understand_v by_o divine_a right_n not_o any_o express_a law_n of_o god_n 55._o require_v it_o as_o of_o absolute_a necessity_n to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n but_o a_o institution_n of_o the_o apostle_n inspire_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n warrant_v it_o where_o it_o be_v and_o require_v it_o where_o it_o may_v be_v have_v but_o nihil_fw-la infelicius_fw-la retorico_fw-la definiente_fw-la the_o remonstrant_a if_o he_o will_v avoid_v mistake_v or_o at_o least_o will_v not_o say_v that_o he_o be_v mistake_v shall_v have_v deal_v a_o little_a more_o clear_o and_o punctual_o in_o the_o state_v of_o the_o question_n for_o first_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o it_o be_v a_o institution_n of_o the_o apostle_n inspire_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n 56._o if_o the_o remonstrant_a be_v not_o here_o mistake_v why_o do_v he_o page_n 47._o in_o express_a term_n grant_v we_o that_o in_o original_a authority_n of_o scripture_n bishop_n and_o presbyter_n be_v original_o the_o same_o for_o so_o be_v our_o word_n not_o as_o the_o remonstrant_a report_n they_o go_v for_o the_o same_o and_o why_o again_o when_o we_o tell_v he_o we_o never_o find_v in_o scripture_n these_o three_o order_n bishop_n presbyter_n &_o deacon_n we_o say_v not_o the_o name_n but_o order_n why_o do_v he_o grant_v that_o in_o the_o same_o page_n and_o fly_v from_o the_o write_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o the_o monument_n of_o their_o immediate_a successer_n can_v we_o imagine_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v by_o inspiration_n from_o the_o holy_a ghost_n ordain_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o of_o perpetual_a use_n the_o record_n where_o of_o be_v not_o find_v in_o sacred_a scripture_n which_o be_v give_v by_o the_o same_o inspiration_n to_o the_o same_o man_n if_o we_o may_v imagine_v it_o sure_o we_o can_v believe_v it_o and_o if_o it_o be_v a_o institution_n of_o the_o apostle_n inspire_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n why_o must_v it_o be_v distinguish_v from_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n do_v he_o make_v it_o but_o a_o evangelical_a counsel_n not_o require_v it_o as_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n sure_o this_o be_v some_o opinion_n of_o a_o new_a cut_n for_o the_o last_o defendant_n of_o episcopacy_n before_o this_o remonstrant_a say_v thus_o 91._o the_o power_n of_o ordination_n have_v be_v ever_o hold_v so_o intrinsical_v to_o episcopacy_n that_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v where_o it_o can_v be_v show_v that_o any_o extremity_n of_o necessity_n be_v ever_o acknowledge_v a_o warrant_n sufficient_a for_o other_o to_o ordain_v so_o that_o in_o his_o judgement_n where_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n there_o can_v be_v no_o lawful_a ordination_n let_v it_o be_v in_o the_o case_n of_o extreme_a necessity_n and_o where_o no_o ordination_n no_o ministry_n and_o so_o consequent_o no_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o no_o church_n and_o how_o then_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o man_n be_v episcopacy_n not_o require_v to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n and_o if_o not_o require_v it_o to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n how_o then_o require_v it_o only_o where_o it_o may_v be_v have_v what_o a_o strange_a limitation_n be_v this_o where_o be_v it_o that_o episcopacy_n may_v not_o must_v not_o be_v have_v if_o it_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n where_o be_v it_o that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n may_v not_o have_v word_n sacrament_n pastor_n and_o bishop_n too_o if_o they_o be_v his_o ordinance_n it_o be_v true_a indeed_o some_o there_o be_v that_o can_v have_v lord_n bishop_n pompous_a bishop_n and_o once_o
the_o substance_n of_o those_o care_n and_o office_n which_o belong_v to_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n be_v transmit_v to_o the_o ordinary_a church-governors_n as_o far_o as_o be_v necessary_a for_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n else_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o sufficient_o provide_v for_o his_o church_n all_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o these_o church-governors_n be_v by_o way_n of_o aristocracy_n the_o common_a council_n of_o presbyter_n or_o by_o way_n of_o monarchy_n diocesan_n bishop_n now_o unless_o you_o prove_v that_o timothy_n and_o titus_n be_v ordinary_a officer_n or_o as_o doctor_n hall_n call_v they_o diocesan_n bishop_n to_o who_o as_o to_o individual_a person_n such_o care_n and_o office_n be_v individual_o entrust_v you_o will_v never_o out_o of_o timothy_n and_o titus_n defend_v diocesan_n bishop_n three_o though_o the_o substance_n of_o these_o care_n and_o office_n be_v to_o be_v transmit_v to_o ordinary_a church-governors_n yet_o they_o be_v not_o transmit_v in_o that_o eminency_n or_o personal_a height_n in_o which_o they_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n a_o apostle_n where_o ever_o he_o live_v may_v govern_v and_o command_v all_o evangelist_n all_o presbyter_n etc._n etc._n a_o evangelist_n may_v govern_v all_o presbyter_n etc._n etc._n but_o no_o presbyter_n or_o bishop_n may_v command_v other_o only_o the_o common_a council_n of_o presbyter_n may_v charge_v any_o or_o many_o presbyter_n as_o occasion_n shall_v require_v in_o a_o word_n these_o ordinary_a church-governors_n succeed_v the_o extraordinary_a officer_n not_o in_o the_o same_o line_n and_o degree_n as_o one_o brother_n die_v another_o succeed_v he_o in_o the_o inheritance_n but_o as_o man_n of_o a_o other_o order_n and_o in_o a_o different_a line_n let_v the_o remonstrant_a therefore_o take_v timothy_n and_o titus_n as_o he_o find_v they_o that_o be_v evangelist_n man_n of_o extraordinary_a dignity_n and_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n let_v he_o with_o his_o first_o confidence_n maintain_v that_o our_o bishop_n challenge_v no_o other_o spiritual_a power_n than_o be_v delegated_a to_o they_o we_o shall_v upon_o better_a ground_n maintain_v with_o better_a confidence_n that_o if_o they_o challenge_v the_o same_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v disclaim_v for_o usurper_n but_o much_o more_o challenge_v such_o a_o power_n as_o be_v never_o exercise_v by_o timothy_n and_o titus_n as_o we_o demonstrate_v in_o our_o former_a answer_n in_o several_a instance_n which_o be_v so_o common_o know_v as_o our_o remonstrant_n be_v ashamed_a to_o deny_v they_o only_o play_v they_o off_o partly_o with_o his_o old_a shift_n the_o abuse_n of_o the_o person_n not_o of_o the_o call_v but_o we_o beseech_v you_o sir_n tell_v we_o whether_o these_o person_n do_v not_o perpetrate_v these_o abuse_n though_o by_o their_o own_o vice_n yet_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o place_n and_o calling_n partly_o by_o retort_v question_n upon_o we_o when_o 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that_o have_v forbid_v it_o they_o qui_fw-la non_fw-la prohibet_fw-la facit_fw-la only_o there_o be_v one_o practice_n of_o our_o bishop_n he_o be_v something_o more_o laborious_a to_o justify_v that_o be_v their_o cast_v out_o unconform_v brethren_n common_o know_v in_o their_o court_n language_n by_o the_o name_n of_o schismatickes_n and_o heretic_n which_o timothy_n and_o titus_n never_o do_v nor_o have_v any_o such_o power_n delegated_a to_o they_o heretic_n indeed_o the_o apostle_n give_v they_o power_n to_o reject_v but_o we_o have_v hope_v the_o refusal_n of_o the_o use_n of_o a_o ceremony_n shall_v never_o have_v be_v equalise_v in_o the_o punishment_n either_o to_o heresy_n or_o schism_n but_o the_o remonstrant_n have_v find_v scripture_n for_o it_o loth_n not_o the_o apostle_n wish_v that_o they_o be_v cut_v off_o that_o trouble_n you_o but_o sure_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o wish_v man_n cut_v off_o by_o god_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o cut_v they_o off_o by_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n beside_o this_o be_v write_v to_o the_o galatian_n and_o they_o that_o trouble_v they_o be_v such_o as_o maintain_v doctrine_n against_o the_o foundation_n i._o justification_n by_o work_n of_o the_o law_n etc._n etc._n which_o we_o think_v be_v very_o near_o of_o kin_n to_o heretic_n i_o be_o sure_a far_o above_o the_o crime_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n unconform_v brethren_n who_o be_v unsettle_a in_o point_n of_o a_o mean_a difference_n which_o their_o usual_a language_n know_v by_o no_o better_a term_n then_o of_o schismatickes_n and_o factious_a yet_o even_o such_o have_v fall_v under_o the_o heavy_a censure_n of_o suspension_n excommunication_n deprivation_n etc._n etc._n which_o the_o remonstrant_a unable_a to_o deny_v will_v justify_v which_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o do_v he_o may_v do_v something_o towards_o the_o patronise_a of_o bishop_n but_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n let_v he_o not_o say_v they_o be_v our_o own_o ill_n raise_v suggestion_n but_o their_o own_o ill_n assume_v and_o worse_o manage_v authority_n that_o make_v they_o fear_n to_o be_v disclaim_v as_o usurper_n the_o second_o scripture_n ground_n which_o the_o remonstrant_a be_v ambitious_a to_o draw_v in_o for_o the_o support_n of_o his_o episcopal_a cause_n be_v the_o instance_n of_o the_o angel_n of_o the_o seven_o church_n which_o because_o it_o be_v locus_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o cry_v up_o as_o argumentum_fw-la verè_fw-la achilleum_fw-la we_o do_v on_o purpose_n enlarge_v ourselves_o about_o it_o and_o for_o our_o pain_n the_o remonstrant_a as_o if_o all_o learning_n and_o acuteness_n be_v lock_v up_o in_o his_o breast_n narcissus_n like_v in_o love_n with_o his_o own_o shadow_n profess_v that_o this_o piece_n of_o the_o task_n fall_v unhappy_o upon_o some_o dull_a and_o tedious_a hand_n etc._n etc._n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o 103._o it_o will_v redound_v the_o more_o to_o the_o remonstrants_n discredit_n when_o it_o shall_v appear_v that_o he_o be_v so_o shameful_o foil_v and_o wound_v by_o so_o dull_a a_o adversary_n he_o object_n colemort_v oft_o sod_a when_o he_o can_v but_o know_v that_o the_o whole_a substance_n of_o his_o own_o book_n be_v borrow_v from_o bishop_n bilson_n and_o doctor_n downham_n and_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o this_o discourse_n about_o the_o angel_n but_o either_o it_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o if_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d it_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o before_o we_o come_v to_o answer_v our_o remonstrants_n particular_n we_o will_v premise_v something_o in_o general_a about_o these_o asian_a angel_n it_o may_v seem_v strange_a that_o the_o defender_n of_o episcopacy_n lie_v so_o much_o weight_n of_o argument_n upon_o the_o word_n or_o appellation_n of_o angel_n which_o themselves_o know_v to_o be_v a_o title_n not_o impropriate_v to_o the_o chief_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n but_o common_a to_o all_o that_o bring_v the_o glad_a tiding_n of_o the_o gospel_n yea_o to_o all_o the_o messenger_n of_o the_o lord_n of_o host_n we_o conceive_v there_o be_v 2._o main_a reason_n that_o induce_v they_o to_o insist_v so_o much_o on_o this_o first_o they_o find_v it_o the_o most_o easy_a way_n of_o avoid_v the_o dint_n of_o all_o the_o argument_n bring_v against_o they_o out_o of_o the_o history_n of_o the_o act_n and_o epistle_n by_o place_v one_o above_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o presbyter_n in_o the_o period_n of_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o so_o find_v in_o the_o revelation_n which_o be_v write_v the_o last_o of_o all_o the_o part_n of_o the_o scripture_n except_o peradventure_o the_o gospel_n write_v by_o the_o same_o pen_n a_o expression_n which_o may_v seem_v to_o favour_v their_o cause_n they_o improve_v it_o to_o the_o utmost_a partly_o because_o hereby_o they_o evade_v all_o our_o argument_n which_o we_o bring_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n do_v we_o prove_v out_o of_o the_o
may_v be_v settle_v in_o the_o same_o these_o dissension_n be_v not_o about_o seat_n or_o rate_n but_o a_o contention_n between_o silvanus_n the_o bishop_n and_o nundinarius_n the_o deacon_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o a_o high_a nature_n too_o high_a for_o our_o church_n warden_n faelicis_fw-la or_o vestryman_n to_o meddle_v in_o the_o bishop_n be_v accuse_v that_o he_o be_v traditor_n &_o fur_n rerum_fw-la pauperum_fw-la do_v ever_o churchwarden_n or_o vestry_n man_n among_o we_o hear_v inquire_v judge_n compose_v such_o difference_n as_o these_o be_v what_o shall_v john_n a_o nokes_n and_o john_n a_o style_n senior_n and_o smug_n the_o smith_n meddle_v with_o a_o business_n of_o bishop_n say_v episcopacy_n by_o divine_a right_n part_n 3._o pag._n 32._o but_o how_o do_v he_o prove_v they_o be_v but_o as_o our_o churchwarden_n or_o vestryman_n first_o because_o deacon_n be_v name_v before_o these_o senior_n where_o ever_o they_o be_v mention_v second_o because_o optatus_n reckon_v up_o quatuor_fw-la genera_fw-la capitum_fw-la mention_n not_o elder_n 147._o for_o the_o first_o though_o the_o order_n of_o reckon_v they_o be_v not_o so_o much_o to_o be_v insist_v upon_o yet_o we_o can_v tell_v you_o if_o here_o your_o confidence_n have_v not_o be_v great_a than_o your_o consideration_n that_o you_o may_v have_v observe_v that_o in_o some_o place_n they_o be_v mention_v not_o only_o before_o deacon_n but_o the_o whole_a clergy_n for_o so_o gregory_n letter_n cite_v by_o we_o tabellarium_fw-la cum_fw-la consensu_fw-la seniorum_fw-la &_o cleri_fw-la memineris_fw-la ordinandum_fw-la be_v not_o senior_n here_o mention_v before_o the_o clergy_n his_o second_o proof_n that_o these_o elder_n be_v no_o better_o then_o mere_a churchmarden_n and_o vestry_n man_n be_v because_o optatus_n mention_v four_o sort_n of_o man_n in_o the_o church_n mention_n not_o these_o elder_n but_o be_v this_o the_o man_n that_o have_v with_o such_o height_n of_o scorn_n vilify_v poor_a negative_a argument_n though_o draw_v from_o sacred_a scripture_n and_o will_v he_o now_o lie_v such_o weight_n upon_o a_o negative_a argument_n sure_o if_o all_o the_o truth_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a time_n be_v bind_v up_o in_o one_o optatus_n as_o all_o divine_a truth_n be_v lodge_v in_o the_o sacred_a volume_n of_o the_o scripture_n the_o remonstrant_a may_v have_v make_v much_o of_o his_o negative_a argument_n yet_o he_o scorn_v to_o hear_v we_o reason_v that_o because_o we_o do_v not_o read_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v by_o the_o apostle_n appoint_v bishop_n in_o remedium_fw-la schismatis_fw-la therefore_o we_o can_v believe_v bishop_n be_v of_o divine_a or_o apostolical_a institution_n but_o of_o humane_a away_o say_v he_o with_o this_o poor_a negative_a argument_n and_o because_o the_o apostle_n ephesian_n the_o four_o reckon_v the_o officer_n who_o christ_n have_v give_v and_o gift_v for_o the_o edification_n of_o his_o church_n reckon_v up_o only_a apostle_n prophet_n evangelist_n pastor_n &_o teacher_n if_o we_o shall_v conclude_v ergo_fw-la there_o be_v no_o bishop_n the_o remonstrant_a will_v cry_v out_o again_o away_o with_o these_o negative_a argument_n yet_o such_o a_o argument_n from_o scripture_n may_v be_v valid_a though_o from_o no_o other_o authority_n as_o for_o optatus_n first_o though_o in_o these_o place_n he_o mention_n not_o elder_n yet_o that_o other_o place_n which_o we_o bring_v out_o of_o the_o same_o author_n do_v which_o the_o learned_a antiquary_n albaspinaeus_n though_o a_o papist_n with_o we_o acknowledge_v second_o these_o place_n produce_v by_o the_o remonstrant_a cross_a one_o another_o as_o much_o as_o they_o cross_v we_o for_o ministri_fw-la be_v leave_v out_o in_o one_o as_o well_o as_o seniores_fw-la in_o both_o three_o these_o seniores_fw-la be_v include_v in_o turba_fw-la fidelium_fw-la as_o the_o apostle_n rom._n 10._o 14._o comprehend_v all_o the_o church_n under_o these_o two_o hearer_n and_o teacher_n and_o so_o again_o heb._n 13._o 24._o ruler_n and_o saint_n yet_o the_o remonstrant_a be_v resolve_v to_o hold_v the_o conclusion_n elder_n in_o a_o rank_n above_o deacon_n in_o a_o settle_a power_n of_o government_n with_o the_o pastor_n 147._o shall_v be_v damn_v by_o he_o for_o a_o new_a and_o unjustifiable_a opinion_n yet_o this_o be_v the_o man_n that_o will_v by_o no_o mean_n be_v think_v to_o condemn_v the_o reform_a church_n though_o he_o fall_v as_o unhappy_o near_o the_o very_a word_n of_o their_o profess_a enemy_n the_o netherlands_n remonstants_n as_o ever_o we_o do_v the_o word_n of_o aerius_n quod_fw-la attinet_fw-la praxin_n antiquitatis_fw-la ex_fw-la ●â_fw-la videlicet_fw-la id_fw-la demonstrari_fw-la posse_fw-la idoneis_fw-la argumentis_fw-la ut_fw-la censor_n asserit_fw-la audaciae_fw-la &_o temeritatis_fw-la est_fw-la and_o again_o tota_n antiquitatis_fw-la praxis_fw-la ei_fw-la repugnat_fw-la but_o oh_o that_o our_o remonstrant_n will_v once_o learn_v to_o take_v the_o counsel_n he_o give_v and_o he_o that_o advise_v we_o to_o give_v glory_n to_o god_n in_o yield_v to_o undoubted_a and_o clear_a truth_n will_v do_v so_o himself_o for_o if_o it_o be_v not_o more_o clear_a that_o there_o be_v elder_n ancient_o in_o the_o church_n then_o that_o there_o be_v none_o and_o that_o these_o elder_n be_v not_o civil_a alderman_n but_o ecclesiastical_a officer_n not_o mere_a churchwarden_n and_o vestry_n man_n busy_v about_o inferior_a thing_n of_o seat_n and_o rate_n but_o employ_v in_o matter_n of_o high_a nature_n let_v the_o remonstrant_fw-la never_o renounce_v episcopacy_n but_o if_o it_o be_v let_v he_o take_v heed_n he_o do_v not_o renounce_v his_o word_n which_o he_o utter_v pag._n 147._o i_o do_v here_o solemn_o profess_v that_o if_o any_o one_o such_o instance_n can_v be_v bring_v i_o will_v renounce_v episcopacy_n for_o ever_o sect_n xvi_o xvii_o xviii_o the_o rest_n of_o our_o answer_n you_o say_v be_v but_o a_o mere_a declamation_n and_o good_a sir_n 148._o what_o be_v your_o whole_a remonstrance_n but_o a_o declamation_n and_o what_o be_v your_o defence_n but_o a_o satire_n but_o we_o be_v worthy_a of_o no_o other_o answer_n than_o contempt_n and_o silence_n you_o be_v very_o dextrous_a and_o happy_a in_o those_o kind_n of_o answer_n your_o whole_a defence_n be_v full_a of_o they_o it_o be_v true_a you_o say_v the_o religious_a bishop_n of_o all_o time_n have_v strong_o uphold_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n against_o satan_n and_o against_o his_o antichrist_n and_o it_o be_v as_o true_a that_o we_o tell_v you_o that_o other_o have_v uphold_v the_o truth_n as_o strong_o as_o bishop_n ever_o do_v yea_o &_o at_o sometime_o when_o there_o be_v never_o a_o bishop_n in_o the_o world_n to_o appear_v for_o the_o truth_n and_o therefore_o never_o impropriate_a all_o the_o glory_n to_o episcopacy_n it_o be_v also_o true_a that_o we_o tell_v you_o that_o some_o irreligious_a bishop_n have_v uphold_v satan_n and_o his_o antichrist_n against_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o what_o can_v you_o say_v to_o this_o what_o be_v this_o to_o their_o call_n sir_n their_o uphold_v antichrist_n make_v as_o much_o against_o their_o call_n as_o their_o uphold_v the_o truth_n make_v for_o their_o call_n if_o you_o fetch_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o one_o for_o their_o call_n we_o may_v as_o logical_o fetch_v a_o argument_n from_o the_o other_o against_o their_o call_n with_o as_o much_o conclude_a strength_n but_o you_o can_v tell_v we_o of_o presbyter_n wicked_a and_o irreligious_a shall_v the_o function_n itself_o therefore_o suffer_v like_a enough_o and_o we_o can_v tell_v you_o that_o they_o find_v more_o countenance_n from_o bishop_n then_o the_o painfull_a minister_n but_o if_o presbyter_n shall_v be_v as_o general_o corrupt_v as_o bishop_n now_o be_v have_v as_o much_o strength_n to_o suppress_v the_o gospel_n and_o promote_v popery_n as_o the_o bishop_n by_o their_o supreme_a power_n have_v if_o they_o can_v bring_v no_o more_o evidence_n of_o divine_a institution_n than_o bishop_n can_v and_o be_v of_o no_o more_o necessity_n to_o the_o church_n than_o bishop_n be_v let_v the_o function_n suffer_v we_o tell_v you_o what_o a_o unpreach_a bishop_n say_v of_o a_o preach_a bishop_n this_o say_v you_o be_v our_o slander_n not_o their_o just_a epithet_n and_o challenge_v we_o to_o show_v any_o unpreach_a bishop_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n this_o day_n sir_n pardon_v we_o if_o we_o tell_v you_o that_o you_o put_v we_o in_o mind_n of_o a_o poor_a sir_n john_n that_o because_o he_o have_v make_v one_o sermon_n in_o 40._o year_n will_v needs_o be_v count_v a_o preach_a minister_n if_o you_o speak_v of_o preach_v after_o that_o rate_n than_o indeed_o you_o may_v call_v all_o the_o bishop_n in_o england_n preach_v bishop_n but_o the_o people_n of_o england_n can_v so_o well_o tell_v who_o deserve_v the_o name_n of_o a_o preach_a bishop_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o preach_n of_o a_o