Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n
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A30942
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The disputation at Winchcomb November 9, 1653 together with the letters and testimonies pertinent thereto : wherein is offered some satisfaction in serveral points of religion.
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Barksdale, Clement, 1609-1687.
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1654
(1654)
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Wing B794; ESTC R23641
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73,761
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196
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to order and administer the affaires of Gods House signifying the territory or circuit of a Bishop So Creet may be well called the Diocese of Bishop Titus having under his inspection as t is plaine the Elders of the Cities there W. The Cities were not under Titus his Government he was not a Ruler of the Iland B. He was Ruler of all the Christians I mean onely them through all the Cities and Country Tr. But Titus was an Evangelist Therefore no Bishop B. I deny the Consequence He was an Evangelist while he went about Preaching and Planting the Gospell And he was the Bishop of Creet when he was fixed there by Paul to Ordaine Elders and put in order the things that were wanting H. We find Titus in other places beside Creet and Bishops of those times were not non-residents Therefore he was not Bishop of Creet B. Bishops may lawfully be and were antiently non-resident for some time to wit while they attend the business of Religion abroad and procured the greater good of the Church In which time of their absence their places are supplyed at home by their Deputies Tr. But Sir I pray consider Titus was an extraordinary Governor and therefore no Diocesan Bishop And you dispute fallaciously unless you put in the word Ordinary B. I say he was a Diocesan Bishop or if you will rather an Archbishop For I conceive the Elders of every City to have been Bishops and Overseers of severall Ministers and Congregations therefore he was an ordinary Governour Thus I argue He that ordaines Elders and orders the things in the Churches is an Ordinary But Titus ordaines Elders and orders things in the Churches Therefore Titus is an Ordinary Tr. But I mean he was called to that office in an extraordinary manner B. No neither He was called in the same manner as Timothy and others by Imposition of the Presbytery Therefore He was called in an Ordinary manner Col. A. Timothy was called saith Paul in another place by the laying on of his hands B. Noble Sir you say very true and the places are easily reconciled thus Divers Elders laid hands on Timothy among whom S. Paul probably was chief H. And was Paul too a Diocesan Bishop B. The Apostles common Diocese was the whole world which by agreement they divided among them and S. Paul was especially the Apostle of the Gentiles But in the Apostles I grant some things are extraordinary Tr. Pray make it out cleerely that Titus his case is not extraordinary otherwise you dispute fallaciously B. Truth needs no sophistry Thus I make it out The office that is to continue in the Church and to be succeeded in through following ages is no extraordinary office But this office of Titus is such Therefore c. H. What is it to continue to the worlds end B. Yes to the worlds end For it is Christs Promise I am with you alway even to the end of the world Mat. ult ult What say you to my argument Ordination and Jurisdiction are Offices or Powers needfull to the Church in all Ages This Office of Power or Titus was Ordination and Jurisdiction Therefore this Office of Titus is needfull to the Church in all Ages and therefore no extraordinary Office And my Brethren I would have you to know we are able to shew out of the best Records and Monuments of the Antient Church that there was a succession to the Apostolicall Bishops in these parts of their Office And the Catalogues of succeeding Bishops in severall Apostolicall Sees are yet extant And the Fathers and Councills and Ecclesiasticall Histories come in here with undeniable evidence that Diocesan Bishops are successors of the Apostles in the Government of Churches H. See godly Brethren the subtilty of this man He will not contain himself within the Holy Scripture but tells us of Fathers and Ecclesiasticall Stories and human Authorities B. Who succeeded in the government of Churches after the Apostles we must learn out of the writings of the next Ages And I tell you not only Fathers and Church-story but all other good learning is requisite in a compleat Divine Mark this you bold unlearned new-speakers and expounders of Scripture Mark it and remember it well And for the question of Church-government especially it is impossible to find a better way to understand the Scripture than by the practice of the primitive times of the Christian Church H. Expound Scripture by the practice of the primitive Church Do ye heare him brethren as if Scripture needed the help of the Church We thought we should finde him enclining to Popery B. I detest all Popery charge me not so ignorantly Upon my life I will make it good by the judgment of the most learned and sound Protestants that the practice of the primitive Church is a great light to Scripture But this requires the searching of Books which at your lesure I should be glad to shew you W. Protestants Whom do you mean by Protestants B. I mean those that protest against the Errors Innovations of the Roman Church in latter times and endeavour to reform Religion according to the Scripture and the primitive pattern H. You see he takes in the practice of the Primitive Church again B. I do and must and thus I argue That Government which in the primitive Ages took place in the Churches planted by the Apostles is the Apostolicall and Scripture Government But the Government of Diocesan Bishops took place in the Churches planted by the Apostles Therefore the Government of the Diocesan Bishops is the Apostolicall and Scripture Government Now let me see who will answer me W. Antichrist Antichrist was working betimes B. Whether it be Antichristianism to establish or to over throw the Function of Bishops let all considering men judge by the Premises W. But why do you take in any thing else with Scripture as if that alone were not sufficient for us H. Yea Scripture Scripture we are contented with Scripture B. Give me leave to explain my self to All and I entreat you Harken The Scriptures perfection I do thankfully acknowledge but the things conteined in the Scripture are some of them conteined in it plainly and expresly to be apprehended by every Reader other things are conteined there implicitely virtually and so as there is need of many helps to make our deductions thence And for the Scripture-government I know no better light to shew it than the practice of the Antient Church I argue thus They that have commended to us the very Books of Scripture are fittest to give us the sense of them especially in point of Government But the Antient Church hath commended to us the very books of Scripture Therefore the Antient Church is fittest to give us the sense c. And I pray Mr. W. how will you prove that the Scripture is the Word of God W. I know it by the Testimony of the Holy Spirit in me B. But how will you convince another that will not believe your
of England The interpretation whereof is to my understanding this that the Calamities under which now we suffer have made us cease to be a Church But Blessed be God the Church of England is not invisible It is still preserved in Bishops and Presbyters rightly Ordained and multitudes rightly Baptized none of which have fallen off from their profession And the only thing imaginable to be objected in this point being this that the Schism hath so far been extended by the force that many if not most Churches parochial are filled by those who have set up a new or a no-form of worship and so that many men cannot any otherwise than in private Families serve God after the Church-way that sure will be of little weight when the Romanists are remembred to be the objectors who cannot but know that this is the only way that they have had of serving God in this kingdom these many years and that the night meetings of the Primitive Christians in Dens and Caves are as pettinent to the justifying of our condition as they can be of any and when 't is certain that the forsaking of the Assemblies Heb. 10. 25. is not our wilful fault v. 26. but only our unhappy lot who are forced either not to frequent the Assemblies or else to encourage and incur the scandal of seeming to approve the practices of those that have departed from the Church See the eminent Doctor in his new Book of Schism last Chapter Master Medes answer to Doctor Twiss touching Holiness of Times and Places p. 660. SIR I Say still there is eadem ratio Loci Tempor is sacri quà talis to wit for the sanctification or discrimination due to them both and the formal reason for which it is due For the formal reason why a thing is to be sanctified or sanctè habendum is because it is sanctum or sacrum and whatsoever is appropriate to God and his service is such be it by Gods own immediate ordination or humane devotion it is all one in this point so the consecration be supposed lawful and agreeable to the divine will For this sanctification depends neither upon the difference of the institution whether divine or humane nor the diversity of natural and artificial Being but upon the formalis ratio of the object because it is sacrum Moreover I believe the one was intended in the fourth Commandement as well as the other not only from that general rule whereby the Decalogue is to be interpreted but because the Lord himself hath conjoined them Lev. 19. 30. Keep my Sabhaths and reverence my Sanctuary Why may not I say Those whom God hath joined together let no man put asunder And it may be the sanctification of the Lords Day would be urged with more advantage upon the ground I have intimated than upon that other which is so much controverted But it is Partiality that undoes all Of Christian Prudence CHristian prudence forbids us to provoke a danger and they were fond persons that run to persecution and when the Proconsul sate on the life and death and made strict inquisition after Christians went and offer'd themselves to die and he was a fool that being in Portugal run to the Priest as he elevated the host and overthrew the mysteries and openly defyed the rites of that Religion God when he sends a persecution will pick out such persons whom he will have to dy whom he wil consign to banishment whom to poverty In the mean time let us do our duty when we can walking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Apostles phrase is not prevaricating in the least tittle and then if we can be safe with the arts of civil innocent in-offensive compliance let us bless God for his permissions made to us and his assistances in the using them But if either we turn our zeal into the ambition of death and the follies of an unnecessary beggary or on the other side turn our prudence into craft and covetousness to the first I say that God hath no pleasure in fools to the later If you gain the whole world and lose your own Soul your loss is infinite and intolerable Doctor Jer. Taylor Serm. 20. Sum. Of Liturgy and the use of Gifts in Prayer THough I am not against a Grave modest discreet and humble use of Ministers gifts even in publick the better to fit and excite their own and the Peoples affections to the present occasions Yet I know no necessity why private and single abilities should quite justle out and deprive the Church of the joint abilities and concurrent gifts and graces enabling them to compose with serious deliberation and concurrent advice such Forms of Prayers as may best fit the Churches common wants inform the hearers understanding and stir up that fiduciary and fervent application of their Spirits wherein consists the very Life and Soul of Prayer and that so much pretended Spirit of Prayer than any ptivate man by his solitary abilities can be presumed to have which what they are many times even there where they make a great noise and shew the affectations emptiness impertinency rudeness confusions flatness levity obscurity vain and ridiculous repetitions the senseless and oft-times blasphemous expressions all these burthened with a most tedious and intolerable length do sufficiently convince all men but those who glory in that pharasaick way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 16. Of Moderate Episcopacy THe Abuses of Episcopacy deserve to be extirpated as much as the use retained for I think it far better to hold to Primitive and uniform Antiquity than to comply with divided Novelty A right Episcopacy would at once satisfy all just desires and interests of good Bishops humble Presbyters and sober people so as Church affairs should be managed neither with tyranny parity nor popularity neither Bishops ejected nor Presbyters despised nor people oppressed ibid. 17. Of the Primitive Church and Fathers IF the practice of the Primitive Church and the universal consent of the Fathers be not a convincing Argument when the Interpretation of Scripture is doubtful I know nothing for if this be not then of necessity the Interpretation of private Spirits must be admitted the which contradicts S. Peter 2 Pet. 1. 20. is the Mother of all sects and will if not prevented bring these Kingdoms into confusion And to say that an Argument is ill because the Papists use it or that such a thing is good because it is the custome of some of the reformed Churches cannot weigh with me untill you prove these to be infallible or that to maintain no Truth And how Diotrephes ambition who directly opposed the Apostle S. John can be an Argument against Episcopacy I do not understand His Majesties second paper to H. Of the same MY Conclusion is that albeit I never esteemed any Authority equall to the Scriptures yet I do think the unanimous consent of the Fathers and the Universall practice of the Primitive Church to be the best