or in the day of Judgment when we and all Man-kind shall appear and come sorth to tryal and every mans work shall be tryed and all shall receive according to their deeds And so gladly would we be made manifest to all the World if that after the reading of this Book any be unsatisfied still in this matter And if any especially of the Heads and Rulers have doubts or Jealousies raised in them concerning us and the Priests and that they further would be satisfied and resolved for that end let any Wise-men propound for full satisfaction of all sorts of People that we with the consent of the chief in Authority that have power in this Nation who may preserve peace and safety among people and thereby to stop all Jealousies may freely and chearfully Four Ten Twenty Thirty more or fewer of us give as many of the wisest and ablest of the Priests and Professors a meeting for dispute at any place in England at what place time and for what continuance as they shall ascribe and consent unto and to dispute and controvert betwixt us and them any such thing and every such particular as shall or may be objected by any of the Heads and Rulers or other Grave Understanding Men wherein they are doubtful betwixt us and would thereof be satisfied that by such Dispute and opening of such causes objected full and real and toal satisfaction may be given to the whole Nation and every particular man and member therein Otherwise Let the Priests or Professors or any of them object what they can against us in our Principles Profession Faith and Practice and our whole Religion And if they shall affirm and alledge any one or more things against us that any Principle we hold or Practice we profess in any part throughout all our Religion are false Principles and false Practices and not according to Truth nor the Scriptures but shall affirm that our Religion is not the true Religion nor we of the true Church of Christ and they shall have free liberty to give their best proof and reason for what they affirm and alledge yet by the Strength of Christ and in the power and authority of God and according to the Scriptures we shall confute all their Proofs and strongest Reasons and on the contrary we shall joyn our Principles Doctrines and Practices and all our Religion and every part and particular thereof to be the very truth and agreeing with the Scriptures according to that shall maintain by lawful Arguments and plea that our Religion and Worship and all that we profess and Practice is according to the mind of the Lord and justified of him and that whatsoever is and may be spoken against us upon that account is utterly false and to be condemned and upon this we will ingage with them and with any of our Enemes of what Sect and Profession soever to the intent onely that Truth may be manifest and embraced and Deceit and Error discovered and denied And also upon such an Engagement we should agree to have the liberty freely and soberly to object against the Priests concerning their Ministry their Call their Practice their Maintenance and their Fruits and Effects and concerning their Church and Principles and Worship and whole Religion and shall hear patiently all that can be said in defence thereof by any or all of them and shall prove by the Spirit of the Lord and according to the Scriptures that their ministry is not the true Ministry of Christ nor they true and lawfull Ministers of the Gospel but shall manifest by evident Arguments that their Call Practice Maintenance Fruits and Effects are not according nor agreeing but contrary and differing to what the true Ministry was and its Call Practice Maintenance Fruits and Effects were in the true Apostles and among the true Churches and furthermore by the Grace of God we shall prove their Church their Worship and their whole Religion in all parts thereof to be degenerated from what the true Church was the true Worship and true Religion in the days of the Apostles and true Churches of old and these things shall we make manifest by faithful and sound Arguments according to the Scriptures that all the Earth may know and all people perceive who is in the Truth and of the true Worship and Religion and who are in the contrary and whether the Priests and that which they profess and practice for Religion or the Quakers and that which they profess and practice for Religion be of God and according to him and whether are contrary that the end of this long Travel and War and controversie may be desided and justly ended between us and all people may be resolved and satisfied concerning us and them that do oppose us And let all the Priests and Professors lay aside and give over their Houses of Correction and imprisoning people and whipping of them and stocking of us and dealing in this manner of violence and cruelty as for years by-past they have done in defence of their Religion and resisting of ours and let them lay aside their carnal Weapons and fighting against our persons and imprisoning of us about our Religion and let them come forth in sound Arguments the best they have and let us see what spiritual Weapons they have to resist us and defend themselves and let us try whether their spiritual Weapons or ours be the strongest and the most powerful and mighty and let theirs that are so prevail against the other be it ours or theirs and this is the way to try the truth and to make all things manifest and to deside and end all the whole controversies between us and them which hath been great this many years and let the Truth be set up and exalted where ever it is and all Deceit thrown down to the Ground and let us war with the Weapons of the Spirit against Errour and false Religion one in the other but le ts not hurt Creatures nor imprison Persons nor stock and whip Creatures and make them to suffer but let us thresh Deceit and whip and beat that and all false Opinions let us throw them down where they are found whether in them or in us and let us fight with the Weapons of the Spirit that are spiritual let them fight no longer with such cruel carnal Weapons and then let such as get the victory and overcome appear to be in the truth of the Church and such as falls and is overcome be manifest to be in the Error and of the false Church and Religion and let us love one anothers persons and let them act no otherwise towards our persons then we do upon theirs and towards them and let them take the liberty to deal with us and our persons as we deal with them and their persons and no otherwise And let such whether them or us that cannot prove our selves to be the true Church of Christ nor of the true Worship and true
He findeth all little enough For shame cover thy Lips and stop thy Mouth thy stuff stinks with raking in who sayest That men cannot be sufficient Ministers without Arts and such poor blind stuff of which I am ashamed and pass by it as not worth the mentioning Then thou goest on in the matter of Tythes seeing the Rule and Law of Scripture will not fully bear thee out in thy wicked practise of pleading for Hire 〈…〉 goest to the Law of the Nation and so the Gospel which you preach will not maâ—…n you according to the Apostles Doctrine but by a Law are maintained through the grievous oppression of the Innocent as is witnessed in this Nation and thou art put to all thy shifts though but beggarly some of them to blind Peoples eyes so that you may have your Hire and in thy Arguments thou pleadest That Tythes are no mans own but the Ministers c. But I say if poor men did not labour and improve their time and strength and money you could have no Tythes so that if the Land was not tilled through poor Peoples labours you might go without so Tythes are not paid out of the Land but out of mens labours thereupon and so you rob poor mens labours and not the Land that you may live in filthiness And thou sayest Care is taken for you already many hundred Years before you were born in setting an Estate c. Yea the Pope settled Tythes upon his Priests whose Generation you are of a poor shameless shift to plead such things leaving the Rule of the Scripture and defending your selves both in your Ministry and Maintenance by a Popish â—aw which was the supreme Power in the Nation when Tythes were first established in England but neither the Rule of Scripture nor of the National Law will make your works justified all People shall see your nakedness and God will make you ashamed of your way And as to particular Had we lived in the primitive Churches when the Magistrates were Heathens c. This I shall answer by a Question Doth not the works of some of the Magistrates in England I do not say all prove themselves rather to be Heathens than Christians by their unjust imprisoning of the Innocent without â—…ch of any Law and so to be rather Destroyers of the Church which is the Body of Christ then careing to preserve it and also in giving treble dammage to the Hirelings for Non-payment thereby wasting and making havock of poor mens Estates as is in many places to be witnessed and these are they who are most zealous for you some of them I leave this Question to be answered which being but truly answered will discover whether you who by oppression take Tythes 〈…〉 â—ho oâ—â— of the exercise of a pure Conscience cannot pay Tythes and so are Sufferers and you Oppressors are Carriers on of the designs of Hell and Rome as in thy eleventh Page thou speakest Then thou sayest So much for the Ministers Maintenance c. Yea more then enough but that thou mightest lay open thy own folly therefore wast thou allowed that thy shame might be fully laid open and thou uncovered who hast acted thy part as others of thy Brethren before thee in pleading your own unjust cause of Idolatry to uphold your grievous Oppression of Tythes and set Maintenances under which at this day many thousands do sadly groan and not pittied by you but though you regard not the Lord God doth and will avenge their Cry upon your heads who have made your Ministry and Religion the most grievous Oppression in this Common-wealth and so are fallen into greater abomination than the Heathen and are higher than they in ungodliness and deeper in subtilty and go to the Heathens and they will shame you and take thy own counsel and practise it as in thy tenth Page And much more of thy stuff I pass thus much is sufficient to discover thy deceit in this particular Then thou goest on and from thy Text thy observation is this It hath been of old and it is the practise still of the Prince of Darkness to transform himself into an Angel of Light c. To which I answer It is proved by the Scripture that it hath been of old his practise and it is proved upon thee that it is still his practise and thou art the man upon whom thy observation stands true who art in thy good words and fair speeches and pretences transformed only in the appearance and not in the ground out of gross wickedness into secret hypocrisie and so makest an Image without Life and so as Iannes and Iambres art resisting Truth yet art thou seen and comprehended though thou sayest Satan is never less seen then when he acts as an Angel of Light which I suppose thou speakest by experience as being acted therein undiscovered to the Simple because of thy hypocrisie In thy Page thirteenth thou sayest that The Scriptures are the true Light Here thy blindeness and error is discovered who speakest herein contrary to the Scripture which saith Christ Iesus is the true Light 1 Iohn 9. Here thâ—â— wouldest exalt the Scriptures in the Seat of Christ and thereby deny him in saying the Scripture is that which he only is and nothing else to wit The trâ—â— Light of the World which lighteneth every man that comes into the World and the Scriptures are a Declaration of him and not him And thou goest on and sayest Because these Quakers â—each People they must do justly do no body wrong nor Lye c. some take it for granted they come from Christ c. But this thou snuffest at and makest light of by which is easily discerned of what spirit thou art the Scripture witnesseth He is a Minister of Christ that turâ— from Darkness to Light and from sin unto God and could we but wink at sin and cloak it as you do and cry Peace Peace to them that walks after the imaginations of their own hearts then should we be loved and not hated of the World And in thy fourteenth Page Thou reckonest us with the Fryars and Popish Generation but them and thee we do deny and that holiness and righteousness which is in the will of man for because we cannot run to the same excess of riot with you you think it strange and therefore thou accusest us as with a matter of fact That we drink water and fast and wear no Lace c. That which thoâ— wouldst make us abominable in by the sight of men doth our innocency and uprightness appear in in the sight of God and his Children Then thou goest on in thy confused language and in that which thou callest thy use Take hâ—ed that you be not deceived To whom dost thou speak to them that are in the Truth If thoâ— speakest to thy own flock thy word might have been Search lest you be deceived for we know the whole World lies in wickedness and this Generation under the deceivableness of
bring People to your Way and Worship and Religion upon these Ingagements and by the Authority of the Almighty I lay it upon you to answer and for you to return your knowledge and opinions to the Particulars following which I am moved by the Lord to query and demand of you that your Doctrines Practises and Worships and whole Religion in every part thereof may be viewed and examined and measured according to the Saints and Apostles writings and may thereby be cleared or otherwise reproved and condemned And if your Profession and Practises in Religion be sprung from the true Grounds and true Spirit and your Church be indeed the true Church that can prove her pedigree truly descended from the Church of Christ before the Apostacy and clear her self from all degeneration in every degree and that she is perfect in the faith and worship and practises of the holy Church and Apostles of old then shall all that love God and fear him and hopes for life eternal separate themselves from all Sects and Apostates separated from you and come in and return again to you as to a faithful Mother and joyn with you in all things and add themselves to your Church only and renounce and deny all the contrary that is not of you and so shall your names and honour be increased through all the Earth But and if after lawful trial and just examination and searching out the matter it be proved against you that you are degenerated from what the true Church and Apostles were and are not builded upon Christ the true Rock and Foundation but diverted from the Power Life and Spirit and true Religion which the Apostles were in and that your Church is not the true Church but a false Sect and your original cannot be fetch'd from the Apostles but is of a latter and more corrupted Race then shall you deny all your Religion and Church and renounce your Profession and Practises and come to them and joyn with them that can prove their Church to be the true Church and can fetch their original from the Spirit of the Apostles and that is builded upon Christ the everlasting Foundation whoever this shall be proved to be wherefore appear and come forth to trial upon this condition joyn issue with us and answer these things in plainness and let us know your Judgements that a return you may reâ—â—ive First Whether you are indeed the only true Church of Christ his Body of 〈◊〉 Fleâ—â— and of his Bones called and gathered and united by the eterâ—… Spirit of Jesus perfect in the Faith of Christ perfect in Doctrine and perfect is â—…ip as were the Churches of Christ in the dayes of the Apostles and 〈◊〉 the Eternal Spirit dwell in every particular Member of your Church and doth lead each one of you into all Truth insomuch that you need now no 〈…〉 teach any one of you but as that same Spirit that dwells in you answer 〈◊〉 â—…inly yea oâ— nay 2. â—…ther are you not in any particular of your Faith Doctrines Praâ—… Worships in any degree degenerated nor deviated from what the 〈◊〉 â—…ne Practice and Worship were that the true Church was in in 〈…〉 the Apostles And whether will you admit of tryal in all things you pâ—… and practice by the Scriptures the Writings of the Saints yea or â—y 3. Wâ—…ther your Church of Rome doth receive the pouring-down of the Spirit upon Sons and Daughters immediately and every Member receive the Holy â—…st and is â—â—lled therewith and baptized therewith as in the true Câ—… Acts z. Anâ— whether you have received the Holy Ghost and Eveâ—… Comforter immediately as did the true Church iâ— the dayes of the Apostâ—… Answer me these things in the Truth of your Hearts that you may be own'â—… 〈◊〉 denyed 4. Wâ—…er the Faith you profess hath perfectly purified your hearts from all 〈◊〉 and hath given you Victory over the World that now the body of sin is 〈◊〉 and you are free from sin and do not commit sin but are every Memâ—… 〈◊〉 you without Spot and Wrinkle and cleansed from all Unrighteousness 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Servants of Righteousness and not of Sin and whether you believe 〈◊〉 Condition to be attainable in this life upon Earth and to be enjoyed and â—…d for yea or nay 5. What is your ground of sprinkling Infants with Water and whether he thâ—â—â—…st instituted it had the Gift of the Eternal Spirit and was led thereby for we know it was first ordain'd at Rome in your Church and all the Protestants received it from you who are not able to give us a sufficient Reason thereof but we are not satisfied therein therefore tell us Whether are people thereby made Meâ—…rs of the Body of Christ and baptized into his true Church and is it a perfect Seal and Sign of the new Birth and Regeneration as is professed and doth that give all Children that are sprinkled a Right to the Kingdom of God and to be Members of the Church of Christ and satisfie us plainly Is the sprinkling of an Infant never having heard the Gospel but while unconverted and â—â—thanged in Nature the true Baptism into the true Faith of Christ as it is professed answer me plainly yea or nay 6. Whether the Body and Blood of Christ that is Meat indeed and Drink indeed be carnal and visible things to be seen felt and known visibly and carnally and whether Bread and Wine that is Mortal and will corrupt be the very Body and the very Blood of Christ Jesus and whether Christ hath any other Body and Blood to be known in any other way or manner then what is professed to be visibly and carnally known by you and is that Bread after Consecration the very Express Image of the Father and was with the Fatheâ— before the World began else it is not the Body of Christ answer me plainly 7. Again We are not satisfied concerning your Burning and Torturing and Imprisoning in cruel Inquisitions and Goals such as dissent from you and cannot believe in your Church which ye call Hereticks whether is not this done by your Church or any Member thereof and do you justifie the doing of it by the Authority of your Church and we demand of you to give us Example for such Practices in Scripture ever Practised by the Apostles or true Church or any Member thereof to Burn or Kill or Imprisâ—â— such as would not own them or were Hereticks otherwise we must coâ—… it and judge you eternally for it And whether such Practices done a◠〈◊〉 and in her Dominions be not Murder and Cruelty and Tyranny 〈◊〉 shedding of Innocent Blood and of the Devil the Wicked One 〈◊〉 me plainly and satisfie us herein that we may know how to deal with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 controversie 8. Again We are not satisfied concerning the abundance of 〈◊〉 of the Saints set up and bowed to amongst you and your praying 〈◊〉 them and to the Saints and by Beads and in Set-Forms such thâ—…
tell us plainly Are you Redeem'd from Pâ—… 〈◊〉 are you such as oppress the Seed as Pharoah did And tell us who was the Inâ—… of â—…our Images and who was the Former of all your graven Images 〈◊〉 not they all invented and come up since the Apostles dayes which ye have 〈…〉 and what is Purgatory and from what had it its rise and original 〈◊〉 what ground have you out of Scripture for such a doctrine And what is the 〈◊〉 of Faith and what 's Faith and what doth it give victory over and what 〈…〉 it over come and what is the â—aiâ— that hath bin spread over all Nations and 〈◊〉 is the Mountain of the House of God and what are those Mountains the 〈…〉 shall seek to cover themselves under and what are those Mountains that people expect Salvation from in vain and did not Iohn come to throw down the â—…ins and what are the Mountains that he came to throw down and what is the Valley he came to raise up answer us And what is the Sword of the Spirit and whether have ye the Sword of the spirit and the Spiritual Armour and what is youâ— Church defended and upâ—…d by Spiritual Weapons or Carnal are not your Goals carnal Weapons 〈◊〉 your Inquisitions and your killing people aboue Religion are not all these 〈◊〉 Weapons and had ever the Church of Christ such Weapons answer 〈…〉 plainly And do you not expect the Lord will suddenly plead with you and are not 〈◊〉 them that put off the Day of the Lord and cause the Seat of Violence to come near and are not ye them that have Eyes but see not Earâ— but hear 〈◊〉 Hearts and understand not and is not your Eye blind that should see God's Presence and your Ears stopped that should hear his Voice â—nd have 〈◊〉 heard his Voice and seen his Shape if you have what is he like answer 〈◊〉 And what is his Word and where doth it dwell in your hearts or is it without you and can any thing without you purifie you and take away sin 〈◊〉 of your Hearts and must not Christ be within and what are the Fruits and Signs and Marks of a Saint and why do you go Pilgrims to visit 〈◊〉 Bones what is the reason of it and who was the first that â—â—tuted it 〈◊〉 what is the meaning of your holy Water give us Scripture for all these 〈…〉 ces or else the Power of the Lord will tear you to pieces and lay open 〈◊〉 Foundation and none that love God can joyn unto you And can any o◠〈…〉 pardon Sin truly that it shall never more be remembred and are not 〈…〉 sins remembred with the Light in your Consciences sometimes and is there 〈◊〉 a Light in your Consciences that doth convince you tell me plainly And whether do you own That Christ hath lightened every one that coâ—… into the World and what is the Light and do you know Christ as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before Abraham and have you seen his Day as Abraham did and what 〈…〉 Day of Christ doth the Carnal Eye see it give us your Knowledge and 〈◊〉 Judgment in all these things and lay down your Principles at full and 〈…〉 by the Scriptures what you hold and profess if you would have any to 〈…〉 your Religion otherwise renounce your Church and come out of â—… What is Babylon and the Mother of Harlots and what is spirituâ—◠〈…〉 and Sâ—dom where Christ is crucified and what is the Whore and what 〈…〉 flesh that has stain'd the Earth and what is the Fire that must consume her 〈…〉 Many are jealous concerning you that you are not the true Church 〈…〉 you have drunk of the Whore's Cup who hath made all Nations drunk 〈…〉 if that time be come that she hath made all Nations drunk then how 〈…〉 clear your selves being Nations and Multitudes of People To 〈◊〉 these 〈…〉 I expect your speedy Answer And what is the Death that hath raigned over all and how is Man recâ—… out of it and when and what are the Gates of Hell and what is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they cannot prevail against and whether your Church may never 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vailed against and whether they be not your Inquisitions Stakes and â—… and killing people that do principally defend your Church and if yâ—◠〈…〉 cease your Inquisitions and killing those you call Hereticks whether 〈…〉 not you be prevail'd against by many other Sects Lay away yoâ—… perâ—… of People that you call Hereticks and do not deaf with them after the 〈…〉 which you have done by Inquisitions and such like and only by sound 〈…〉 guments and the Power of the Spirit defend your Religion And dare you suffer a certain number of us to come among you and pâ—…ch what we hold and a certain number of you shall freely come among us 〈◊〉 freely preach what you hold without Persecution or any Violence as we would expect and have the same from you engage man for man with us and 〈◊〉 no otherwise deal with ours then we deal with yours and take the free liberty to deal with our men as we deal with your men but no otherwise and 〈◊〉 each of the Messengers preach and hold forth what they would have and whâ—â— they really hold and believe and convert the most either of them can to theiâ— own Religion and then let all the World see which have the Power and Spirit of God with them and whether your Ministers or our Ministers do turn the more people from you to us or from us to you and send your Answer whether you will agree to the Premises and if you do send your Messengers when you pleaâ—â— and we will engage in the Lord their Persons shall not be harmed but if they were then take Man for Man Life for Life of our Men sent to you and let that God be the true God that appeareth in most Power and Authority and let him be worshipped forever whose Power converts the most to the knowledge of him out of Wickedness and let that Church be the tâ—… Church which cannot be overcome And as you are willing to be made manifest joyn issue with us in this business and propound your own time when the men shall return and whether the continuance of the Matter be for Dayes Moneths or Years and let each of the men return without harm of Person and this will be a way truly to try and make manifest all things to all the World and whether you or we be in the right Way and of the right Church and use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Weapon against us but the foundest Arguments you can by words according to the Scriptures and the same Weapons we will use against you 〈…〉 other but the Authority of the Spirit of God and Arguments thereby 〈◊〉 shall be according to the Scriptures the Apostles Writings and the â—…ony of the true Church And hereby in the sight of the whole World let your Church and Faith 〈◊〉 Principles and Practices
God or any part of his Worship though you say it is yet we never had other proof of you then Tradition of time and long Custom and by this you would seem to plead the practice to be a Duty But this satisfies not us though we do not quarrel nor deride at your practice in this particular as thou groundst thy Argument but this we do we freely give our Testimony against your practice from time to time in the Fear and Power of the Lord yet not as quarrelling and deriding after the Flesh though we do say they were composed in Rhime and Meeter by Sternhold and Hopkins and others which were Musitioners to the Queen and in this we say true and are neither ignorant foolish nor prophane as thou sayst and we give witness against such your practice to be Antichristian and you Deceivers of the People thereby so hereby is thy Conclusion made void and a place is brought in for another They that act such things and observe such practices in pretence of Honour and Worship to God which is not commanded nor instituted of God nor which his Spirits leads unto They are Idolaters and their Worship and their Practice is Abomination unto the Lord But thus do the Ministers and People of the Church of England and therefore the Ministers and People of the Church of England are Idolaters and their Practices Abomination unto the Lord. Answer to the tenth Thy minor Proposition I do deny for we do not charge the Office and Call of the Ministers of the Church of England with Lies and Calumnies but this we say their Office and their Call is not from the Lord nor by the Authority of his Spirit neither is their Office and Call according to the Scriptures but it is different and contrary both to the Spirit of God and the Scriptures and is not from Heaven but rather from the Whore of Rome And though we do affirm these things concerning the Ministry of England yet we do not charge it with Lyes and Calumnies but we speak the Truth in righteousness And what would C. Fowler and his Brethren have said of the true Prophets that called the Priests and Watchmen of Israel that were made by Divine Institution which the Office and Call of England's Ministry never was that called them blind Watchmen and greedy dumb Dogs and devourers of Souls Might not they have said to the true Prophets you charge the Office and Call of the Priests of the Lord with Lyes and Slanders And this is like the case between us and the Priests of England And did not Christ call the chief Priests Serpents Vipers and Hypocrites and those Priests were in their Office and Call of Gods Institution but might not they have said that he charged the Office and Call of the Priesthood with Calumnies c. and the case is the same with us and it is accounted no sin by the Lord for us to give our witness against the Wayes and Practices of the Priests of England and utterly to deny both its Office and Call for they that do profess their Office and Call to be of God and from him and yet can give no true Testimony thereof by the Spirit of God and according to the Scriptures such are deceived and Deceivers of others but such are the Priests of England and therefore c. And thus I have returned Answer to his Ten Propositions and laid down some others in their place his being confounded and I must leave it to be judged of by the Witness in every mans Conscience whether he hath not shewed his madness and folly in his matter and in the way of his proceedings as for the matter he charges us withal it s wholy invalid as for the end propoâ—ed by hâ—â— and we account of his Work as but the malice of an Antichristian spirit And as for his proceedings they are inconsistent with a Minister of Christ for him and his Brethren to fly from me at his Dispute at East-Hamsted as before mentioned as being not able to defend their Cause this he and they did as many in that Country knows â—â—d then for him the next morning when I did invite him to meet again upon sober reasons which he also denied and refused to meet me any more and yet afterwards when I was gone out of the Country to go and hatch such mischief in his mind as to invent ten such rain Arguments and cause them to be set up on the Steeple-house-door oâ— purpose to villifie and reproach the Innocent People of God this was his Wickedness as all upright men may see And further for him to challenge to dispute these Particulars and leave time and place to our appointing which when time and place was appointed sutable and equitable on all parts and yet for him to refuse to meet at that time and place this was his fâ—dy and madness as understanding men may discern And further for him yet to rail behind our backs against us in his Pulpit and to charge us as if we refused to meet him this is his hypocrisie and the deceitfulness of his heart whereby he thinks to keep the People in blindness but the Light is now arising in the Hearts of People whereby such Deceits and Deceivers are fully discovered and they cannot now be hid And though for many Ages Deceivers and false Prophets have hid themselves under the Profession of Ministers and fine names yet the Day of the Lord is dawned which hath made them fully manifest and now their Sheeps cloathing will not hide them though they cover themselves therewith and have deceived the World thereby and these Babylons Merchants they have made great gain upon people and traded with the Souls of men and Souls have been murdered even for dishonest gain but the Plagues of God is coming upon the Earth which the Whore the false Church hath corrupted through her Sorceries and Witchcrafts and as she hath done unto others in causing them to drink her Cup of Abominations and false Principles Doctrines and Practices which the Beast and his Power hath imposed upon the Nations and Nations have been made drunk thereby and in particular this C. Fowler with whom I am now dealing is made manifest to be one of these Merchants of Babylon who hath made Merchandize of people for gain to himself and such are his covetous cursed Practices having a heart exercised with Covetousness and Oppression as is well known in the Town of Reading as for instance First It was charged upon him and confessed by him that he sued at Law twelve poor men of Reading for the Tythe of their Turnips and with much malice and greediness did prosecute the twelve poor men and put himself and them to great Charges and Trouble onely he confessed he took but twenty Nobles of them and thought he did favourably with them Now this was acknowledged by his own Mouth which is a clear demonstration of the Coveâ—ousness and Oppression of this man
practised among the Papists we have no Command or Example for it in all the Scriptures only the Apostle exhorted to confess your faults one to another but no mention of distinction of persons as if there was an Order of men among the Saints Ordained for Confession to be made unto as is among the Papists practised But such kind of Inventions are among them and all that gain-say them in their Wayes must be burned as Hereticks and this is the way that the Papists do uphold their Religion not by sound Arguments and by the Spirit and Power of God but by killing such as will not Believe and Practise as they do Doct. 6. That it is not necessary or profitable to have any Church or Chappel to pray or perform Divine Service in Opposed by the Papists as a great Error Answ. As for the Church it is in God 1 Thes. 1. and the Body of Christ is the Church Ephes. 1. 23. the Saints of Christ that have Believed in the Church of Christ for the Church was in Aquilla's House as may be read and in this Church of Christ wheresoever come together is the Divine Holy Acceptable Service of God performed in the Spirit and in the Truth And as for Houses of Wood and Stone builded and called Churches and Chappels which Papists have builded to perform their Service in these are Idolatrous Places and not true Churches God dwells not in Temples made with Hands as it is written And though a man affirm That God may be worshipped and served as well in any Place as in your Churches and Chappels and that such Places are not necessary but God may be served in other Places This is no Error deserving Fire and Faggot as the Papists do affirm and Practice Doctrines 7. and 8. That burying in the Church-Yard is unprofitable and vain That Holy Dayes Instituted by the Church are not to be observed and kept in reverence in as much as all Dayes are alike Opposed by the Papists as Errors Answ. There is no respect of Places with God neither are the Dead more or less acceptable to him notwithstanding the Place of Burial whether it be on the Land or cast into the Sea if occasion so happen as some times it doth The Patriarchs of old had Places appointed and purchased for Burial of their Dead as it is at this day among the Lord's People but that the Church-yard so called is more Holy than another Place as the Papists do account This we believe not nor can it be proved to us by Scripture or sound Reason And as for Holy Dayes instituted and observed is but a meer Invention of the Romish Church without any ground from the Apostles and it is no sin against God not to observe them and all dayes are as to God alike holy in His sight without respect of one or another And for the Papists to invent Practices without Example in the Scriptures as Religious and then to impose them by force upon all People and to kill and burn such as Hereticks as cannot conform thereunto How Impious Oppressive and Antichristian this manner of work is let all sober People judge And this is but a mocking of God for the Papists to profess Holy Dayes and with a pretence of God's Worship to observe them as Holy when as more Rudeness Drunkenness Wantonness and Ungodliness is usually committed that Day which they profess to keep Holy than is on the other dayes beside And this is manifest to all People that thus the Papists do mock God in their exercise of keeping Holy Dayes Doctrines 9. and 10. That it is sufficient to Believe though a man do no good Works at all That no Humane Lawt or Constitutions do oblige a Christian Opposed by the Papists as Errors Answ. It is sufficient to believe in Iesus Christ and that Believing is a good Work and if a man truly believes he cannot but bring forth by that Faith good Works and it is impossible for a true Believer in Christ but to do good Works if a Man do no good Works he is not a Believer For Faith without Works is dead and that is no true Belief which is without good Works and a Christian one that is truly so is obliged and bound by the Law of God To do all Good and to forsake all Evil and the Laws of men they are subject to them all for Conscience sake by performing them or suffering under them And as for Humane Inventions of the Papists which they bind on the Consciences of Men upon loss of Life or Estate or Damnation These things we say do not oblige the Conscience nor any Laws or Constitutions of men do oblige Christians to Obedience which are not truly grounded upon the Law of God Doct. 11. That God never gave Grace or Knowledge to a great Person or Rich Man and that they in no wise follow the same Answ. This is a false Doctrine for God gave Grace to all The Grace of God which brings Salvation hath appeared unto all men as it is written which Grace teacheth the Saints to deny all Ungodliness and the Wicked turn the Grace of God into Wantonness but the true Knowledge of God is given but to a few and not many Wise men after the flesh are called but God chooseth the Poor and Contemptible as saith Paul to confound the Wise and Mighty of this World and yet God gives Knowledge to Rich and Poor without respect of Persons as it pleaseth Him Doct. 12. That any Lay-man may preach by his own Authority without Licence of the Ordinary Opposed by the Papists as a great Error Answ. All in the true Church and that are of the Church may Prophesie and Speak in the Church one by one as Paul saith without distinction of Titles such as the Papists use Clergy and Lay-men and such like Terms of their own Inventions without Example from the Churches of Christ in the Apostles dayes for the Apostle saith If any thing be revealed to another that standeth by let the first hold his Peace for ye may all Prophesie one by one that all may be edified And again Peter saith As every man hath received of the Gift of the Spirit let him administer the same one to another Thus it is manifest by the Scriptures That every Member of the true Church of Christ may Preach by the Authority of the Spirit of God as that moveth and leadeth and this was the Example of the holy men of God declared in Scriptures Elisha that was a Plow-man and Amos that was a Herds-man and Peter that was a Fisher-man these and such as these whom the Papists would have called Lay-men did Preach and Teach without any Licence from men but as the Lord Commanded them who said Ier. 23. He that hath my Word let him speak my Word faithfully and this without respect of Persons and without distinction of Names of Lay-men or otherwise though contrary to this the Papists would limit the Holy
Hereby and in this Way is true Conversion wrought in the heart to the turning men from all Error unto the Truth and from all false Worships and Heresies and Evil Wayâ—s unto the true Christian-Worship and Conformity to holy Church and Religion This I say was the Way among the primitive Christians â—…d Apostles of old and is the same among the true Christians in this Age and they that would conform others and are conformed themselves otherwise in this Case of Religion and Worship to God-wards are not in the Example of Christ and his Saints but out of the Life and contrary to the first Christians and President of the Holy Scriptures as hereafter is manifested The Way and Practice of Imposing Religion and Conformity in Worship and Church-Government by Force as aforesaid is so far from being according to the Practice and Example of the Apostles and the primitive Churches of Christians that they are even contrary to the Commands and Exhortations of CHRIST and his Apostles and Example of the Scriptures 1. As in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares Mat. 13. when it was desired of the Servants that they might go and gather out the Tares that the Enemy had sown from among the Wheat it was commanded to the contrary by the Husbandman even that they should suffer the Tares to grow among the Wheat till the Harvest and not pluck them up lest they hurt the Wheat thereby Now though there be an invisible Mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven secretly signified in this Parable more then may here be said yet 't is also clearly signified That Christ would have no Imposition nor Violence used upon thâ— Tares nor that they should pluck them up by Force but that the good Corn and the bad 〈◊〉 grow together in one Field till the Harvest And thus much this Parable bears the Proof of Suppose there be Heresies and Hereticks and Prophane Persons that are not in the Truth but in Errors who are bad Corn even as the Tares to the Wheat in that Kingdom City or Family where there is also converted Saints and holy Persons and true Members of Christ who are as the Wheat to the Tares yet such Hereticks and Prophane Persons that are in Error ought not to be plucked up violently to wit Imprisoned Bannished and put to Death Burned and Destroyed from amongst the Righteous though they grow amongst them even in the sâ—… Field The converted Saints ought not I say to destroy by â—â—nnishment or Death the Hereticks and Unconverted and Unconformable Persons from amongst them but they are to let them live even grow amongst them in the same Field in the same Kingdom City or Family till Harvest And thus much the Parable may truly signifie Even a Liberty to live for the Tares the bad Corn the evil Persons among the Wheat the Righteous Persâ—… without being imposed upon by Cruel Force and Outward Violence to compel into Conformity 2. As in the Case among the Saints and true Believers where some believed 〈◊〉 might 〈◊〉 all 〈◊〉 others did 〈◊〉 Hâ—…s and some esteemed one day above 〈◊〉 â—nd otheâ—â— esteemed every day alike Rom 14. Here was some difference in Judgment and Practices amongst the Believers about Mâ—â—ts and Dâ—â—es abouâ—â— which thiâ—… there hath been much Imposition and Force used in the World since the Apostle dayes Well But what doth the Apostle Paul 〈◊〉 and advise in this Case Doth 〈◊〉 threaten Violence towards any of them or signifie any forcible Commands or Impositions to be used to bring them into Conformity and Unity in the things and Matters about which they were divided No no but this is his advice to the Church of Christ of which he was a true and able Minister Iudge not one another about such things nor do not impose any Practice upon thy Brother for to Christ Iesus â—…is Master every Believer stands or falls And saith the Apostle Lâ—â— every Man be fully perswaded in his own Mind vers 5. And hereby it is manifestly proved That in the Churches of Primitive Christians the Saints and true Christians were not imposed upon by Commandments of Mâ—n or outward Laws in the matters of their Religion and Practice of Conscience there was no signification of force to be used for Conformity but whâ—â—y contrary even every Believeâ— had the Liberty of the Spirit of Christ and as he was by that perswaded in his own mind to do or leave undone in such cases and every one was to mind the Teachings of the Spirit of Christ in himself for to that he was to stand or fall and not to impose upon another no not so much as to judge his Brother in any case of difference in Judgment or Practice but they were to leave one another to the Perswasions of the Spirit of Christ in their own minds 3. As in the Case where the Apostle exhorted the Saints to be Like-minded â—â—il 3. But saith he If any 〈◊〉 Otherwise-minded God shall reveal even this unto you By which Saying it is mâ—nifest That the Unity and Conformity of Saints in Mind and Practice was not by Imposition or any outward Force threatned or exercised upon their Persons or Estates but contrary-wise if there was any Difference in Mind and Practice amongst any of them that was to be amended and Unity made up when God revealed the same Truth in all as he had done in some if any were not so minded in any thing as others were they were not to be imposed upon but let God reveal the same and bring into Conformity this was the Apostle's Counsel And vers 16. Nevertheless whereunto we have already attained let us walk by the same Rule that is to â—â—y so far as the Rule of the Spirit of Christ is made manifest or in whâ—â— measure the perfection thereof is attained unto let every one walk in the same measure and by the same Rule and if any have not the self-same measure of the Spirit and know the self-same things let such alone without imposing upon them leave them to walk in the measure of Light and knowledge that they have received though it be not the self-same measure that others have received and if they want any Knowledge or be in any thing otherwise-minded God shall reveal the same unto them even the same thing as they grow in the same measure of Grace and Knowledge And here is the perfect Way of Unity and Conformity as the Primitive Christians were exercised in the true Faith and Worship and true Christian Religion in their dayes And so to impose by Force upon Paint and Forfeitures in Religious Matters is clearly contrary to all these Scriptures and to many more in the New Testament 4. In that Case 1 Pet. 5. 2 3. where the Apostle exhorts the Elders To take â—â—e Overâ—â—ght of God's Flock not by Constraint or Force but Willingly not for 〈◊〉 by Lucâ—â— but of a ready Mind neither 〈◊〉 being Lords â—ver God's Heritage which câ—…ly signifies against
Imposers which is to make people true Worshippers of God is utterly frustrate and void and none are made true Worshippers of God by such Imposition and Force but many are made Hypocrites thereby and sinners against God for what any performs to God-wards by Force and not of Faith given into the heart by God it is sin For whatsoever is not of Faith is sin as saith the Scriptures and that which is the occasion of hypocrisie and sin is unrighteous and temptation but such is imposing on Conscience by force in religious Matters 7. It is Unrighteous and Unreasonable to Impose by Force upon Conscience because it is the Occasion of absolute Eâ—…remity put upon many that are Dear and Precious to the Lord even such aâ— Extremity as may force unavoidably the ruin of either Soul or Body or both in this World and hereafter For suppose such Laws be made for the forcing of Conforâ—ity to commâ—… men to Worship upon the Forfeiture of whole Estate Banishment oâ— Death which is contrary to the Spirit of Christ and good Conscience And if such Laws be not obeyed and such Conformity made but the Conscience kept clear to God then the outward Man in his Person Estate and Family is ruined in this World and if such Laws be obeyed and such Conformity yielded contrary to good Conscience then the Inward Man is ruined and the Soul and Conscience wounded and grieved because God is Offended and Christ is Denyed and the Law of Men obeyed rather then the Law of God and this is by an Extremity occasion'd through imposed force in the Cases of Conscience by Authority and Laws of Men. And that which is the Occasion of such Ruin and Destruction to the Souls and Bodies of such as fear the Lord is an Unrighteous Thing which administers that woful Extremity To deny God and so to be liable to his Wrath and Judgments or to deny the Authority of Men and so to be liable to Destruction of Person and Estate in this World and such is Imposing of Worship 8. It is Unrighteous and Unreasonable because it may destroy the Faith of some even of such upon whom Imposition is laid against their pure Consciences For Suppose a Person or People being truly perswaded by the Spirit of Christ in the true Way of Religion and Worship of God having therein true Peace with God in a clean Conscience and by force of Law and through cruel Imposition should be forced from that Way of Worship which they have had Peace with God in and which the Spirit of Christ perswaded them of the truth of unto such a Way of Worship which they could not have Peace with God in nor the Comfort of his Presence in such Conformity forced upon them this were certainly Unrighteous and Unreasonable that a People or a Person should be forced by Laws from that way wherein they have Peace and Blessings with God to that Way wherein their Souls are famished for want of the Presence of the Lord Like as if a Person of such a Calling following the same in a certain City or Town whereby he maintained himself in all good things and wanted nothing and yet the chief Magistrate of the said City or Town should forcibly compel by Violence the said Person of so good a Calling from that his Calling whereby he so well maintained himself in the World and should force upon him to follow another Calling of which he could not live in the World but by it he might Perish and Starve Would not all reasonable men conclude the same Imposition of the said Magistrate upon the said poor Man were Oppression Cruelty Unrighteous and Unreasonable And the case of imposing Religion as aforesaid is the greater Oppression and Cruelty inasmuch as it respects the Immortal Soul which is more worth then the Body and the other respects but the Body which is of less worth with all that concerns it then is the Soul which is Immortal Lastly 'T is Unrighteous inasmuch as it is contrary to the Scriptures of the New Testament in the Dispensation of the Gospel which are before cited and contrary to Christ and his Apostles Example in the Primitive Churches of Christians And thus it is manifest That Imposing by Force upon Conscience in Religious Matters is Unrighteous and Unreasonable and is not of Christ but of Antichrist as is by plain Reasons demonstrated And now I shall in a few words shew The Danger of Imposing Worship 〈◊〉 aforesaid and how Dangerous it is to any King Prince or outward Authority that are or may be the Imposers on the Consciences of Men by Force in the Case of Worship and Religion 1. It is Dangerous to cause the People to sin to cause them to conform in Appearance when the Heart is not devout to God and this makes them Hypocrites Dangerous to cause People to perform Duty to God-wards without Faith in God and this makes them Sinners against him For whatsoever is not of Faith is Sin Dangerous to cause some to deny Christ before men for the Fear of this World and Terrors of Violent Men and to forsake that Way which they know is of the Lord and to follow that Way which they know is not of him and this denying the Lord of Life and a great Abomination against him And the Cause of that cause is Imposing by Force upon Conscience in Matters Religious and the Reason of all this is The Imposers such as make and Execute such Force and this Danger all such are involved in even the Danger of causing People to sin against God of Denying Christ of making Hypocrites and so even in the Danger of Destroying Souls which is a desperate Danger Oh! that all the Imposers of Religion by Force would consider it and look upon the Danger which they are deeply fallen into and involved in by reason of such their Imposing upon Conscience Alas they are in the Danger of destroying Souls of causing a Nation and People to sin against God and to deny the Lord of Life And how great is such a Danger even to be avoided of all if they love their own Souls and not to be the Occasions and Cause of destroying Souls by causing People to sin and this Danger all the Imposers upon Conscience are captivated in And 2. It is Dangerous to be a Means to destroy that Kingdom City or Country and the Rulers thereof by begetting and nourishing Discontents Heart-burnings and Envying among the People one against another and against their Rulers because of such Unrighteous Force and Violence exercised by Imposition upon their Consciences Dangerous I say to raise into Contentions Strifes Broyles and Blood-shed it self in a Kingdom amongst People And this is a Danger violently impending upon such Rulers or do impose as aforesaid even a Danger to ruin their own Power and Authority and to ruin the People under their Dominion by raising the People into Discontents and Broyles through the Cruelty of the Oppression of
the unity of Saints a departing and absenting from such an one and a depriving of him of the peace and comfort joy and felicity of the Assembly of God's People and Servants a turnning from such in Converse and Fellowship and a separating from them and judging them by the Spirit of Christ Jesus and this is rejecting an Heretick and delivering him to Satan according to 1 Cor. 5. 4 5 6. When the Church The Saints were met together with the Spirit of God and the Power of the Lord Iesus Christ such a one as had erred from the Truth and sinned against it and was truely an Heretick should be delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the Flesh that the Spirit might be saved Delivering unto Satan what is that but to let him be cast out into the wicked World reputing him as such an one and that he partake not of the sweet heavenly and blessed Union and Fellowship of Saints in their Assemblios and converse with the God of Heaven in his Spirit and Life not to be numbred among the righteous nor a partaker with them in the holy Union of the Elect to pass judgment upon him eternally in the estate he is now in having both erred from the Truth and rejected and despised the reproofs and Admonitions of the Church of Christ and as such to give him up to Satan to give him up to that Spirit that hath led him aside from the Truth and hardned his heart against it to deliver him up to it seeing he refuseth to be reclaimed from it and hath chosen to follow it rather then the Truth let him be left unto delivered up unto that Spirit even unto Satan in the wicked World let him be cast out thither among the unclean and not reckoned among the record and line of the faithful People and separated from and cast out so as he expresseth it vers 11. If any man that is called a Brother be a Fornicator or Covetous a Railer a Drunkard c. with such a one not to accompany no not to eat and this is to deliver a Heritick to Satan for the destruction of the Flesh and is the proper punishment of Heresies and Hereticks according to the Apostles Advice and Precept but not to kill or punish the persons of men by corporal Afflictions and Penalties on the Bodies and Estates for their Error sake this the Apostle gave no Commission for but that such as erred from the Truth and walked contrary in Principle or Practice should be rejected and delivered up unto Satan in the way and manner before declared Again in Matth. 18. 16 17 18. it is signified by Jesus Christ to the self-same purpose in these words If thy Brother trespass go and tell him alone if he repent forgive him if not take one or two or more with thee and tell him again if 〈◊〉 still neglect to hear tell it to the Church but if he neglect to hear the Church let such a one be unto thee as hath offended and rejected Reproof and Admonition again and again as an Heathen man and Publican In which words of Christ is truely signified the right and proper way of proceeding towards Hereticks and Offenders even that they be first again and again admonished and reproved and if they resist the same then to be cast out separated from and not enjoy the union and comfort of the Saints amongst them but as an Heathen man and Publican but here is not a word signified of laying corporal Punishments Burning or Banishing persons for their Errors sake and though they may offend no proceedings of this kind are authorised by Jesus Christ or his Apostles in their day but in another way and manner as I have shewed is the proper way ordained of God to deal with Hereticks according to the Testimony of holy Scriptures signified by Christ and his Apostles in the Primitive Churches 9. This is Punishment according to the nature of the Offence for as the Offence is Spiritual erring in the mind from the Truth and a going astray from the Spirit of Christ in a man 's own particular so the Punishment is answerable thereunto even to be separated from the Truth and not to enjoy the Vertue Peace and Comfort of it nor to be partakers thereof amongst the faithfull People And this is truly according to the Iustice of God whose Wayes are just and equal altogether and hath appointed just Rewards for Transgressors according to the nature and merit of the Fact and Deed that is evil and 't is righteous and just that men that sin against their own Souls should be deprived of the Peace and Comfort thereof that all that do depart from the Truth once known and sin against the knowledge thereof â—hould be no more a partaker of the Vertue and Felicity of the same and that they who offend the Lord's People and revolt from the union thereof should be cast out from them rejected of them and not enjoy the Blessings and Peace with them even that all they that will not hear the Repooofs of the Spirit of God nor be drawn with the gentle movings thereof should be judged and condemned with the same and not inherit the Assurance of the Saints And this is God's Iustice That all that love Evil and walk in Iniquity and despise the Lord should be cast out into the sinfull World to have their Portion with the Ungodly and all the Workers of Iniquity and this is just Punishment according to the nature of the Offence of Error aad Heresie for in my Iudgment and I have the Spirit of just Iudgment in this Case it is great Punishment and sufficient for a man that hath once tasted of the Vertue of God's Presence among his People to be cast out from the Feeling and Enjoyment of that Life Vertue and Assembly where it is enjoyed this is Punishment and a Wound to the Soul and Conscience for a Person that hath been turned from Iniquity and witnessed the Peace of Christ in the Church to be left in Iniquity and to witness the Wrath and Anger of God daily smiting him in his spirit and upon his heart this is indeed great Punishment And to have the holy Spirit of Christ in his People now to judge and condemn him whom sometimes it hath comforted and refreshed and to be dis-united and separated from that Spirit and Power amongst the Saints which once gave Life and Joy amongst them This man thus judged and condemned by and thus separated and dis-united from the Spirit and Power of Christ and his People is punished and afflicted sufficiently for his Error and Heresie even in his Conscience Soul and Spirit he is wounded grieved pierced vexed and punished though yet his outward-man and his person be not corporally afflicted by Punishments but he is afflicted within he is dealt withal by the Anger of God in his Conscience he is separated into Darkness and from the Light and Glory of God in the Assemblies
I perceive thou hast got a catch by some Scriptures being misplaced and not truly quoted which may be the Printers fault for ought I know But all that ever thou hast spoken proves not the truth of what thou hast asserted let shame cover thy face Thy twelfth Argument is Such is the Quakers light viz. which affirms sound Believers walking Evangelically in obedience to Gods Commandments to be in a state of Condemnation therefore it is the Light of Satan c. Answ. Thou being neer at an end hast left the greatest Lye to the last When wilt thou be ashamed and stop thy mouth thy testimony of Lyes is well nigh finished and thou bindest up the sum with an abominable one yet thou confessest in thy Margent We do not say thi◠in many words but by consequence c. Here let all men take notice of thee who hast accused us with a thing and yet confessest we say not the thing thou hast fully manifested thy self we need go no further to lay thee open but thou sayest By consequence c. Friend if thou mighttest be the Interpreter of our Books its like thou wouldest deal deceifully as thy Generation hath done with the Scripture but we write not our Books and leave them for to be expounded by thee but they are as they speak simple plain Language to the ignorant that thy may be instructed thou hast manifested thy skil in wresting our words sufficiently we allow thee not to be our Interpreter we testifie he who is a sound Believer and walks in obedience to the commands of God is in a justified state in the sight of God but we put a difference betwixt condemning sound Believers and speaking plainly in reproof of sin as if we tell the Lyar his portion will be the Lake and the Proud he shall be as stubble before the fire and the Wicked shall be cast into Hell and that no Coveteous Unclean Whoremongers Drunkards c. shall never enter into the Kingdom of God This Language is not a condemning of the sound Believers neither is it so accounted in the Sight of God though falsly judged by thee and we stand to the Judgment of him and not unto thy false Slanders And thou further sayest and desirest the Quakers But to tell thee of one man in the Word of God meaning the Scriptures who was Holy who embraced the Quakers Doctrines Principle and Practises c. David was holy Moses was holy Ieremiak was holy with many more testified of in the Scripture that were of the same Faith with us and of the same Doctrines and Principles and Practices for themselves were Quakers as their own Writings make manifest and hadst thou been in their dayes thou wouldst have spoken no less evil of them then of us for it was such as thou who spoke evil of them and persecuted them and hence I do conclude thy spirit to be the spirit of Satan and not the Spirit of God Thy thirteenth and last Argument is against our Shaking as thou callest it and it is manifest to every one thou sayest whence it comes c. And railest much against it and shufflest off and kicks against the testimony we give out of the Scripture bringing the like examples of the Servants of the Lord. And thou sayest We abuse the examples of Daniel Moses and David to defend these diabolical actings c. God shall reprove thy lying Tongue and rebuke thee with the reproof of his Judgments yea many more than these named can we bring to witness for us in the same actings of the Power of God which thou most wickedly callest Diabolical and leavest the Reader to observe thy foolish Story to which in its place I may answer Then thou goest on and ramblest over a great deal of stuff from an Author like thy self who wrote a Book against us also and whose testimony is no better then thine as being of the same spirit against the Seed of God with thee and his testimony and thine are both for condemnation thou quotest his Lyes to prove thine as though his words were of authority with the Scripture but wrechedness and subtilty lodges under your tongues and though you be of several Opinions and Judgments in your Worships and Ministries yet are you joyned and against us as Herod and Pilato and if it was not such a things as would make for thy wicked purpose thou wouldest scorn to make use of his words to prove thine but the shift of the subtil Fox which would devour the Lamb is taken notice of in all his actings Then thou sayest No you own no such revolation viz by the foregoing words 〈◊〉 you were taught the Gospel by the revolation of Iesus Christ. And here let all men take notice of thee to be one that was never sent of Christ but one who knows not God for as Christ Jesus saith No man knows the Father nor the Son but he to whom the Son reveals him And thou having denied the Revelation of the Son of God hast shut out thy self from his Knowledge For shame talk no more of the things of God but let thy mouth be stopped from making mention of his Name especially on the account of being a Minister all that know God or the Gospel are ashamed of thee some of thy own Brethren will not own thee herein some of this I have laid open before Then thou goest on saying The pretended revelation of the Quakers do cross an Article of Faith and Rule of Obedience in Scripture This is not the least of thy Lyes I deny the Slander the same Truth and Faith and Obedience as ever was witnessed in the Holy men of God which declared forth the Scripture we own and bear witness of and no other The Revelation of Christ in us in Faith and Obedience is witnessed by Paul who is our Example and thou art the man whose spirit is contrary to Scripture as is clearly made manifest and in thee the man of sin is revealed and the Light which should discover him is vailed and I may truly say of thee as thou falsly hast said of us Surely the Devil is the Authour of thy work Then in thy conclusion thou sayst Much more might be gathered out of their Books whereby it may appear by what spirit these Quakers are led by the spirit of Satan scarce trasnformed into an Angel of Light Now to all the honest hearted unto whom this and thine may come even to thy own Hearers at least unto such who have but moderation in their spirits and to that measure of God in their Consciences I do appeal that they by it may judge whether thou hast more discovered the spirit of Satan in us by any thing which thou hast in all thy Books justly proved against us to be evil or sin or error except thy Lyes and Slanders may stand for a testimony or in thy self who hast slandered us unjustly and wrested our words deceitfully and spoken many 〈◊〉 grievous
the Holy Ghost Ans. His words are utterly false yet we say we have received the Holy Ghost which teacheth us and leadeth us into all truth and by it are we lead out of all Wickedness and Delusion and all wicked speeches which he brands us withall and these things are his own for he is seen to be in delusion and odious wickedness and wicked speeches And saith he They speak against the DOCTRINE of the SPIRIT and cryes down the love of the Saints and against the Ordinances of the Ministers of Christ. To this I have answered In the love and union with all the Saints we are and Ministers of Christ but against Hypocrisie we declare such who profess what they are not and use their tougues and saith the Lord saith when the Lord hath not spoken to them and sprinkle Infants and saith it is an Ordinance of Christ and singing Davids experiences in Rime and Meeter with many other things which the Priests hath in their practice such things we deny to be Ordinances of Christ and them to be Ministers of Christ which do practice them and this we do say by the Spirit of Truth But that we pronounce damnation against Gods Church and holy Servants this is false again and is but the fulfilling the number of his lyes and though he charge us secretly with preaching another Gospel then that which Paul preached is false and if we duely examine it will be he that will be found preaching another Gospel whose practice is found in many things contrary to them who were Ministers of the true Gospel and so the curse pronounced by the Apostle will fall upon him and not upon us in the day of Judgement 21. His one and twentieth Reason Saith he The Quakers themselves renounce 〈◊〉 words the Ranters and Papists as a deluded sort Answer To which I answer and say Yea not only in words but in lives lives also we utterly abhor the Ranters and Papists both in profession and practice and do know that Rich. Baxter is of the same spirit though differing in words But saith he The Ranters and Drunkards cryes out against the same Ministers same exercise and godly people as the Quakers do To which I answer What the Ranters and Drunkards may do in their wickedness and unclean spirits is one thing and what we do in the fear of God and tender love to peoples Souls is another thing but how uncharitable is this man in his judgment Let us try him as if I should say The Ranters and Drunkards and Prophane and all ungodly People they are our Enemies and do oppose and gainsay the Way of God and the people called Quakers and they Beat them and Reproach them and Slander them and doth much cruelty unto them and thus doth Richard Baxter of Kidderminster he reviles them and reproaches them and belyes them and therefore he is one with the Ranters and Drunkards and prophane people and he holds part of the Papists Ranters and Drunkards doctrine and practice And thus he is judged with his own Rule according as 〈◊〉 hath judged us by the same Rule and now say I as well as he of us Let any man judge that hath not forsworn all wit and reasons whether it is likely the Holy Ghost will inspire Richard Baxter and a company of Priests of Englâ—… to acquaint them with the same Points Doctrines and Practices which the Papists Ranters Drunkards and all prophane people exercise themselves in for as all they are Enemies to the Quakers so is he and his company Aâ—… farther I ask him Whether the same things be heavenly in Rich. Baâ—… and his company which be hellish in the Ranters and Drunkards And whether Richard Baxter hath not condemned himself and the Priests of England in condemning the Papists and Ranters and Drunkards and prophane people in acting the very same things to wit speaking against reproaching reviling and slandering and backbiting an innocent people of God called Quakers 22. His two and twentieth Reason And saith he If I have any Reason to 〈◊〉 weary of the Christian Catholick Reformed Religion what reason have I to turn Quaâ—… more then to any other Sect Why saith he how do they prove they are more in the riâ—… then any other c. Ans. To all this I answer this is according to his knowledge who sees 〈◊〉 difference between good and evil between such as serveth God and such as serves him not and how can this man be a Teacher of others that is so blind himself The true Christian Religion he is out of and in a Sect whose fruiâ—… are as bad as the Papists or Familists or any others for I believe not the worâ—â— of Sects could have brought forth more lyes and slanders and scoffing worâ—â— in one sheet of paper then he hath done in this which now I deal withal And as for our proof that we are in the right way to every man that hath an eye to see and an ear to hear and an heart to conceive it 's easie to be proved and such are satisfied but as for Unbelievers and Persecutors such as himself they must hear and see and not perceive and understand 23. His three and twentieth Reason Saith he The way by which they prâ—… is not producing any evidence for they renounce that and offers all from the Autâ—… of the spirit within them c. Ans. The way by which we prevail is by the the Spirit of the Lord which 〈◊〉 within us and that was the way whereby all the Ministers of Christ evâ—… prevailed by the authority of that But yet this is false we do not deny 〈◊〉 produce Evidence but is sufficiently able and hath done it to produce Eviâ—… out of the Scriptures to prove all things which we profess or practice for Religion But saith he They must prove their Commission by Divine miracles before 〈◊〉 reasonable man can believe it c. many that fear God and are in the 〈◊〉 Reason hath Believed us already and do see the Mighty Wonders of Goâ—… brought to passe and it cannot be believed by Richard Baxter no more 〈◊〉 Christ was believed of the Pharisees in whom the mighty Power of God 〈◊〉 made manifest for though he did miracles yet this Generation could not believe them And he tells of some that said he was 〈◊〉 so might they well do and not lye his blindness is made manifest at largâ—… And saith he But can I see the Witness in them that saith they have the Witness in themselves Nay because thou art an Unbeliever thou canst not but it thou wert a Believer in Christ thou wouldst feel the same Testimony in the Brethren but by thee we are not known and therefore by thee are falsly Judged for no other Testimony do we give or hold forth but the same which the Apostles did which we have received from Christ as the Apostles did and not by any authority of our own though he falsly says it but by the Authority
any honest man that is Spiritual who hath an Understanding to judge hereof Now I suppose themselves none of them are so ignorant as they will say The Scriptures are that WORD which was in the Beginning and which shall Endure forever But say they the Scriptures are another Word a Declarative Word or such like termes Now when we dispute or contend with any about the Word of God we dispute what that Word is which the Scripture saith is the Word and do deny that Word to be the Scriptures Writings though still we do own the Scriptures a Declaration of that very WORD of GOD and that the Scriptures in any place do call themselves the Word or signifie so much I do deny it and it is left for any of our Opposers to prove it that can if they do I will confess it to be the Word and revoke all that I have spoken to the contrary And as for thy Deductions and Consequences drawn from my words I do deny them for they are not to me but will turn upon thy self for thou sayest A strange kind of Assertion as if nothing of the Mind Will and Counsel of God were declared in the Scripture And whitherto can be the tendency of such giddy Doctrines then to a weakening of the Authority of the Scriptures and begetting Slightings and undervaluing Thoughts and that the effects may be lightly esteeming the Scriptures These and such Deductions hast thou drawn through thy Ignorance from my words from all which I am clear as having no Intent to any such things nor any Intent but to testifie to the Pure Innocent TRUTH And thy Deductions are far more ignorant and impudent then my Assertion is strange and let thy Consequences be what they will from my words the truth of my words will justifie me in the Sight of God and his Saints for I do honour the Scriptures above other Writings and give them the Authority and Esteem and Respect due unto them and more I dare not And some of thy pages I pass over as not worth taking notice of only I do say Thou hast wronged me in not relating so much as was spoken by us by far and in relating more then was spoken by thee or thy Party And the next thing I note is this where R. G. said he would and went about to prove That the Letter is the Word of God but was not nor is ever able to prove and thou hast changed the words of his Argument in thy Relation from what they were as he laid them down in the Dispute from called to owned for thus his words were laid down at that time said he That which Christ and the Apostles called the Word of God is indeed the Word of God but Christ and the Apostles called the Scriptures the Word of God Ergo. Now I denied and do yet that it can be proved That ever Christ and the Apostles called the Scriptures the WORD of GOD and neither do thy Proofs now nor his then of the minor Proposition prove That the Scriptures viz. the Writing were ever called the Word although it be true that the Pharisees made the Word of God of no Authority by their Traditions But that Scripture doth not say That the Letter is the Word which thing he was to prove or else he said nothing to the purpose And as to the other Scripture 1 Thes. 1. 13. that will not prove that the Apostle called the Letter the Word for it was the Gospel which they received as the Word of God and not the Letter The Gospel is the Word of God not denied by me but sealed unto but the Gospel is not the Letter and Writings but the Gospel is the Thing written of and that is it which the Apostle means to be the Word of God for that is the Word which he preached to the Thessalonians and which they received And so thy Arguments and Proof of thy minor Position is deny'd and so the major Position falls to the Ground And by this nor any other Argument can all you Priests of England prove the Letter of the Scriptures to be the Word of God which thing R. G. took in hand to prove but could not and would have cry'd against it in me as a great deal of Heresie for denying it but Error is fallen upon his own Head The next thing I note is in pag. 13. where thou wouldst seem to cover over R. G. thou sayest his words were not That I had the thing signified in my hand when I had the Bible but that I had that which declares of it Now to justifie him in Evil thou hast wronged me and the Truth for he did say when I held up my Bible I had in my hand the thing herein signified upon this very Occasion I holding up my Bible in my hand and saying to this very effect That in my hand I had the thing which did signifie in words of such and such things but I had not the thing signified And Richard Goodgrom made answer and said But I had the Thing signified and this some can witness Whereupon I made answer and said If it be so that I have the Thing signified in my hand then I have God and Christ and the Spirit and Heaven and Hell and Men and Beasts and all things that herein are written of and then he saw the Folly of his own Ignorance I perceive And much more might be related as upon this Subject which was said on both Parties which I desire not much to recollect only what I have said I can certainly remember and can justifie it And I must confess that Philip Taverner hath done pretty fairly though in some things he hath not done so And no was to the next thing charged against me in the Relation being placed the second though it is the third That evil Motions not consented to were not sin In the first private Meeting I remember my words were laid down thus and so I own'd them in the Dispute That Temptations or Motions unto evil are not sin to any man who doth not consent and obey to serve Temptations or evil Motions and they are not sin to the man except they be consented to by the man and this was proved in the Example of Christ who was tempted of the Devil and had motions to do evil yet did not consent nor commit sin for he resisted and overcame the Tempter and so the Devil's Motions and Temptations which were sin in themselves yet they were not sin to Him And this Proof then they could not deny neither can any sober or upright Man And so in the Dispute the thing was put to a farther Question thus But are not those Motions which arise out of a Man 's own Heart Sin except they be consented to To which I was willing to speak something and to own the very TRUTH and to justifie that there is a State wherein Evil Motions may rise out of a Man 's own Heart which are
Sin in themselves and Sin in the man yet not sin to the man if he doth not consent to them obey them and fulfil them and the Scripture doth prove it Rom. 7. where he saith It is no more I that do it but sin that dwelleth in me for in his Mind he served the Law of God and with his Mind did not consent to the Motions of Evil and Sin and the Sin was not his nor reckoned against him by the Lord because with his Mind he consented not and this no Upright Man can deny And also I apply'd my self at that time for Witness to the Experience of sober people and Christians Whether many times there had not been evil Motions in their Hearts presenting themselves to which they had not consented but the Lord had given them Power over them to resist them and deny them and they were not overcome of them And whether ever they were accused and condemned for such Motions which the Lord gave them power against Or Whether the rather they had not Peace and Joy in the Lord who had discovered to them and given them power over the Evil which had presented it self And I also gave them that which I had witnessed concerning the thing as a Testimony agreeing with the Scriptures to that particular And though the Relation saith as if I spoke of my present State to be so but herein the Hearers were mistaken if so they understood me for my present State is another then what it once was I bless the Lord I speak without Boasting And my present State I did not then nor now shall declare for I am not known to the World nor desire to be as what my State is But this was my Intent and is in these things My State was say I yea I believe from Ten Years old till many Years after that many times I had Evil Motions arising in my own Heart which sometimes overcame me and sometimes the Lord gave me to overcome them so that I consented not to them nor obey'd nor follow'd them and when they did overcome me and lead me aside then was I troubled and condemned of the Lord for they were reckoned to be my Sins when I consented and many times the Lord gave me power over them and I consented not but resisted them and denied them and then had I great Peace and Joy in the Lord and no Condemnation and this was my Experience for some years together though my present State be another Condition of which I shall not speak as not being needful at this time and this is the Truth which no sober Christiaâ— can deny It s true we spent a little time in disputing upon those things but to little purpose as on their part for what I then said many of the people saw to be the very Truth and all were well satisfied except such as might harden their hearts and much more passed betwixt us And as to this thing which I cannot relate only P. T. as he began so he goes on giving a Report in his Relation of much more then himself spoke and a great deal less then we spoke which thing in him was not very fair not honest For I then proved by many Scriptures That some were perfect in this life 1 Cor. 2. 5. even perfect without Sin Iohn 1. 47. 1 Iohn 3. 7. and yet I did declare at that time That many of the Saints and Children of God were not come to the State of Perfection which admits of no Addition for many of the Saints daily receive more and more of God's Wisdom and of his Power and Life revealed in them wherein they grow up to God from Strength to Strength And though they did so much contend against it yet in the end were forced to confess to the substance of what we spake as to the particular of Perfection The next thing is concerning Perfection and I am charged with holding That Perfection is attainable in this Life which thing I did hold forth and contend for and am not now ashamed of it and my very Proofs which then I used some of which are related by P. T. are sufficient to prove the particular if I should say nothing more and even as the thing is related though what I spoke the whole is not related by much as about this particular of perfection but what is related shall stand as a Witness for me and against them that do so much plead against Perfection even of such perfection to be without sin in this Life And to this I shall say little more but leave his own Relation unto the consideration of sober People onely must say that P. T. hath belyed his own Memory in saying his Relation is A faithful account and yet hath related much more then he spoke also about this Particular As to the next thing which is objected against me That the Scriptures were given to the World and not to the Saints this is utterly false and was neither thus spoken by me nor yet my meaning and at the Dispute I did deny that I spoke the words neither had I any such intent as they have deducted though still I do confidently affirm That that Scripture Iohn 5. 39. was spoken to the Unbelieving Iews that went about to Kill CHRIST who had never heard God's Voice nor seen his Shape nor had not Christ's words abiding in them and to them he spoke that Scripture mention'd neither had I any such meaning but that the Saints and all sober people and all people might search the Scriptures though such a bad consequence they have drawn upon my words and said It is a giddy assertion that hath dropped from me and yet himself is forced to confess what I spoke is true to wit that that Scripture in the fifth of Iohn was spoken to the unbelieving Iews and not to the Saints and yet P. T. to confound himself confesses that I said The Epistles were given to the Saints and this is a Contradiction from his own Pen First to say that I asserted the Scriptures were given to the World and not to the Saints and yet saith I confess the Epistles were given to the Saints which are some part of the Scriptures And whereas P. T. further speaks questioning in himself how far I own the Authority of the Scriptures and such like which shews his ignorance or his unbelief for I have and do here again speak plainly That we do own the Authority of the Scriptures and we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures have had hope and they are able to make the man of God perfect through Faith and what Christ and the Apostles owned the Scriptures to be the same we do and neither more nor less and in this we are approved of God and let men judge what they will And whereas P. T. further speaks something of Iesuites and saith he does not apprehend me to be of that measure of subtilty which is found among men of that Brother-hood
〈◊〉 Truth to speak plainly by reproving them that gain-say it and to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God in every mans Conscience 〈◊〉 I desire to be manifest and seek not 〈◊〉 worâ—… to covâ—â— Eâ—… thâ—◠〈◊〉 may not be sâ—… 〈◊〉 â—â—ou 〈◊〉 â—…y to 〈◊〉 â—…t but let all my Enemies sâ—…ct wâ—…at thâ—…â—…ill 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to stand approved and noâ— of man 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 â—ew inâ—…rd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of man but of God And as for railing Language and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—â—â—inst thee I have used none but spoke the truth in Plainness 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—â—ing thou â—…est to stâ—… at is whereâ—â— I sâ—…d I suppose thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…d thy self Mr. Philip Tavernâ—â— â—nd â—â—ou now 〈◊〉 to hide 〈◊〉 sâ—… from the force of my words to the sight of the World◠〈◊〉 appears 〈◊〉 to â—…ke upon thee with some Shame and thou sayest Thâ—… 〈◊〉 not preâ—… Mr. before thy Name but the Stationer did it who sayst â—â—ou wâ—… pleased to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Man with that Title c. Rep. Noâ— instead of clearing himself he hath shewed moâ—e guilt of Ambition 〈◊〉 â—efore and my words were I supposed and not an absolute 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith and had not I good Reason to suppose it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was his Aâ—…n being also contrary to the express Command of Christ Mat. 23. 〈◊〉 inâ—…eed I hardly ever read any Superscription like to it by the greatest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of men as men accounâ— and it is a thing far above Humility 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—â—â—â—â—ming any man much less one that professeth himself to be a 〈◊〉 of Christ to subscribe himself oâ— be with his consent Mr. such an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seems to cover himself from Ambition because saith he he did it 〈◊〉 himself but another I say I shall not charge him here with Falshood but I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is very unusual for any man to add any thing to another mans Book without his knowledge I never knew it done by any Stationer who hath had 〈◊〉 knowledge of their Wayes but yet he acknowledges it was done in Honour to him to subscribe him Master and here he hath justified the thing and 〈◊〉 that he is indeed guilty of Ambition who confesseth that it is an 〈◊〉 to him to be subscribed Mr. by another for he saith The Man that 〈◊〉 â—â— Honoured him with that Title And here men may take notice what Honour â—â—is my Adversary looks after even the Honour that Christ forbiddeth who 〈◊〉 â—â— his Ministers Be not ye called of men Masters but the man hath honourâ—… 〈◊〉 Taverner with titling him Mr. as he saith Tâ—â— next thing treated proves also that he is Ambitious for he pleadâ— much the lawfulness of Titles of Civil Respects as he calls it and this is all to justiâ—… the Title of Master to himself and thereupon hath wrested divers Scriptures 〈◊〉 though the Unbelieving Greeks used the word Master or Iohâ—…â—2 â—2 〈◊〉 â—e hath quoted is this an Example sufficient for Christians to break the â—…and of Christ Mat. 23. 10. Neither are any other Scriptures a Warrant 〈◊〉 thy man so to do though for a whole Page he treats only as for the lawfulâ—… of â—â—ch Titles yet in the end would shut guilt from his own Door that he 〈◊〉 not Titles for he saith This he speaks not that he would have it so done to 〈◊〉 And this his seeming to justifie himself proves himself guilty knowing that he had given truly occasion for People to judge he would have it so and in the end would blind the minds of the Simple with words of seeming Humility that he would not have it so done to him as if he cared not for it And whereas I said in my first That I am without any Prejudice towards the man viz. P. T. He saith I must give him leave to question it first from my Railing Words against him secondly from my Scornful Pitty expressed c. saith he Rep. I have no Prejudice against him God is my Witness and he may queâ—… what he will who is in the Unbelief for its manifest by his former that he questions where he hath no just occasion shewing much prejudice in himself for he said in his first Relation commenting upon some of my words If by such words I meant so then it was truth but if I meant so then it was false And 〈◊〉 not this a perfect sign of prejudice in him who had not just occasion to except against the words as they lay nor could not condemn them but upon giving his own Interpretation of them first Whereupon I said in my first Answer p. 14. Alas poor man must I be judged upon thy own Meaning c. and yet in 〈◊〉 words I shewed no scornful Pitty to him though he falsly supposeth it and sâ—… it and so while he cannot believe that I am without Prejudice against him 〈◊〉 hath shewed himself guilty of prejudice towards me and my words to be seeâ— and justly believed by many And whereas he saitâ— It s doubtful howâ—… I own the Authority of the Scripâ—… because I say in my first We through Patience and Comfort of the Scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hope have had Hope saith he Now it seems because I place my words 〈◊〉 have had Hope his unbelieving doubtful Heart questions whether I own the â—â—thority of Scriptures and would falsly conclude That through the Comfort of the Scriptures we have no Hope now and saith he Are you now flown so high that you need not c. pag. 3. And therefore I may now answer further Yeâ— through the Promise of the Lord declared in Scripture we have Hope 〈◊〉 this present That God will bring down and overthrow all such that deceive the 〈◊〉 who are made Ministers by man and of man at Schools and Colledges and all this set Maintenance by Tythes and casting people into Prison and spoiling their Goods to maintain Ministers as at this day in the Nation many Hundreds have been cast into Prison and many Hundred Pounds worth of Cattel 〈◊〉 Bedding and all kind of Goods have been distrained for to maintain the Ministry I say We have Hope according to the Scriptures That God will being down all this and your preaching for Money and bargaining with people 〈◊〉 so much the year and your preaching what you have studied for from the Scriptures by a Glass in a Steeple-house where the Mass used to be said God will confound all this and poor people shall be delivered from the Mouthes of those Deceivers that make a Prey upon them and preach for Hire and seek for their Gain from their Quarter and these things with many other we hope for at present Wherefore think not in thy self we now do not hope for we 〈◊〉 do and and have had Hope through Patience and Comfort of the Scriptures Whereas I charged P. T. in my last That he had wronged both me and the Trâ—â—â— in his Relation c. which he saith in his Answer is false and he saith He 〈◊〉 not apprehend me and the
the many horrid and hideous Errors which for some years past have abounded amongst us against the Authority of Scriptures the Deity of Christ the holy Ghost Trinity of Persons Immortallity of Souls Doctrines of Repentance Humiliation Sanctification Resurrection from the Dead the Eternal recompence of Heaven and Hell yea divers Sects encreasing every day in numbers power and malice and under the name of Quakers Ranters Seekers c. oppâ—gning the received Doctrine and unquestionable interest of Christ Iesus amongst us Answ. That many horrid Errors have abounded amongst you that is very true as in many particulars might be instanced But why do you maliciously charge the Quakers with opposing the Interest of Christ Jesus The Lord shall judge you in his Day when he makes it appear to all the World that those whom you charge with the contrary are the very Friends of Christ's Interest and have been patient Sufferrers for his Name sake under the wickedness of your Generation and as for the Ranters Seekers and others whom you have reckoned up together with the Quakers it is well known that we are in opposition in spirit unto all these and have given large testimony in the Fear of God against them though it is certain that there is many as upright and sincere men towards God among these Sects you have mentioned as any of your Congregations and though in some things they are condemnable yet in some things they are as justifiable as you are before the Lord And what the Seekers Ranters Familists and the rest mentioned by you do hold as in these things you have charged them with I will leave that for I am not now pleading their cause but the Cause of God and his People whom you in scorn call Quakers and though you have joyned them in Accusation with others yet I must separate them from others in my Answer and must tell you in the fear of the Lord that you have belyed them and falsly accused them out of your malicious hearts for they do not deny the Authority of the Scriptures but gives that authority to them which the Spirit of God that gave them forth hath formerly given neither do they deny the Deity of Christ but do say In him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead neither do they deny the holy Spirit nor the Father Son and Spirit but say there are three and these three are one but as for your Trinity of Persons that is language beside the the Scriptures and we do affirm the Soul is Immortal and as for the Doctrines of Repentance Humiliation Sanctification Resurrection from the Dead the eternal Recompence of Heaven and Hell these Doctrines are publickly held forth by them in words and also in practice more then by your selves therefore with what face you could charge them with the denial of these things it is almost wonderfull and there are thousands of your Congregations that are and have been sometimes hearing in your City that shall bear witness against your Accusations and give Evidence that they have heard them whom you call Quakers give faithfull witness of and for all these things which you charge them with denial of Do you think that your Congregations are all so blind as to receive for truth what you have herein spoken nay I must tell you some of them are offended with you because hereof First in that you have reckoned the Quakers with Ranters and others between whom there is absolute opposition and not agreement neither in Doctrine nor Practice Secondly That you should charge the Quakers with such things as they are altogether clear of and known to be so by many but this is that your folly and weakness might appear and as you speak of encreasing every day in number power and malice some part of this is true for the Lord doth encrease his People daily in number and power by his Spirit but not in Malice and that is your torment the encrease of the Quakers which as they have begun to encrease so the Lord will continue them and you nor mortal men shall not be able to hinder neither the Magistrates Persecution nor the Ministers Instigation thereunto though you have joyned hand in hand against them for the Lord is with his People and his Authority and Power is theiâ— Defence and they are not in empty Forms as you say but in the Power of Godliness and as for your Ordinances and Ministry of which you speak something I have said to it already and more I shall say to it hereafter Your third Evidence is The odious Scandals of those that profess themselves to be the People of God as their self-seeking their unparallell'd breach of all civil and sacred Oathes whereby the Mouth of Iniquity is opened and the reverence of Religion abated so that to us say you there appears no visible way of repairing the credit of strict profession but by a severe punishment of Professors c. Answ. It is true many that do profess themselves the people of God but are not but by their lives and practices gives odious Scandals and are Self-seeking as you say but upon whom the guilt of this may be truly charged that remains to be sought out doubtless it lies as near your doors as any others for is not your pride and oppression by taking Tythes suing people at Law for Wages and casting them in Prison because for good Conscience sake they cannot pay you your seeking for your gain from your Quarter and your taking great sums of Money and preaching for hire taking so much yearly are not these odious scandals and very self-seeking practices which you are guilty of while you pretend publick good as for Breaches of Oaths and Covenants I wish you to search your own hearts for that Iniquity doth lie as near your Generation as any others witness that you and your Brethren have from time to time engaged to such and such things As first Did not you engage for the Government to be without King and House of Lords And did not you then cry up the Protector contrary to your Engagements and now cry up another And thus it is very evident that the guilt of breach of Oathes and Covenants lies near unto your selves which indeed opens the Mouth of Iniquity for the very Cavaliers and Prelates say you were once strict in your Way but now you have struck hands with them and are now your selves doing that which you cried out against in them And thousands in this Nation is abated in their affections from your Church and Ministry as knowing them to be upon a false Foundation and to be of Babylon and not of the Heavenly Ierusalem And what do you mean by severe punishment of Professors Do you mean to set up Ecclesiastical Laws again and that all must be forced to your Church Way and Religion Is it in your hearts to drive the Nation by force and if they will not to punish them with Fire and Fagot and Prisons If
well Oh that such would consider and not be hasty in any thing to perform or profess Religion in their degenerate estate but that they would come to know the Regeneration and the renewing of their minds by the holy spirit and that the Immortal Birth might be born in them even the Birth of the Spirit which is Heir of God Oh that that might live and rule in them then should they be Heirs of God and Citizens of the New-Ierusalem And oh ye People of London lay it to heart you must be born again or else you can never enter into Gods Kingdom you must be changed in nature and must be crucified to this world that you may live unto God this must you come unto or else you have no part nor portion in Eternal Life and your Duties and Performances in your Forms of Religion they cannot save you not justifie you all your Preaching Praying Singing and all your Duties whatsoever they are all nothing till you come to know changing and renewing inwardly and do witness the Seed of God raised up in you and the head of the Serpent bruised in you by the Seed of the Woman this must you come to witness that your Souls may live Oh that you would consider be not so zealous against that which you may call Heresie and Schism for while you err in judgment you may soon speak evil of Truth and persecute it under the name of Error many have wofully faln into that Snare and brought sorrow upon themselves thereby The wise Iews even the chief Priests Scribes and Pharisees they were as confident in their Way as you can be and yet they erred in judgment and would not receive Christ but persecuted him under the very name of a Deceiver and thus it is possible for many to do in this Age What though you have Christ's words and the Apostles words yet if you have not the Spirit of Christ that was in the Apostles you know nothing rightly of the Scriptures neither can you understand them nor have Salvation by them for you must know Christ in you your hope of glory else you are Reprobates and shut out of the Kingdom of God And search the Scriptures and see if they do not witness this Do not they say Christ is in you except you be Reprobates and do not they say The Law of God is written in the heart and the Spirit of God is put in the inward part And do not they say That Christ hath lightned every man that comes into the World with the true Light And do not they say that the Apostle exhorts people to hearken to the Word of God in their hearts and to be followers of the Spirit of God that was in their hearts And do not the Scriptures say That it was the Light that shined in the heart that gave the knowledge of God unto the Saints Search the Scriptures and see whether these things be so and must not men be born again of the Immortal Seed Oh consider and let not these Doctrines seem new unto you neither reject them though they come unto you in weak appearance not with words of mens wisdom but in Simplicity and in sincerity and in the Power of God And search the Scriptures whether these things be so were not they false Prophets That preached for hire and divined for money and sought for their gain from their Quarter were not such Deceivers in the true Prophets time and them that preached for filthy lucre and for money and for gifts and rewards were not such false Brethren and false Apostles search the Scriptures whether these things be so for the day of trial is now come wherein all must be searched and that Religion and Worship and Ministry which is not according to the Scriptures which was given forth by the Spirit of God let that Religion Worship Church and Ministry be utterly condemned of the Lord and all his People and let such Ministers as cannot prove their Call their Maintenances and Practices to be according to Scriptures let such Ministers be confounded and silenced for ever and come to try this matter when you will For whereas you cry out against us as if we were Deniers of Scriptures as if we were Enemies to Church and godly Ministry and Religion and as if we were Deceivers Hereticks Papists c. But I say unto you these things have you never yet justly proved against us but rather accused us behind our backs to make us odious among people and though for divers years together we have been publick yet when did ever any of you Ministers seek by lawfull means to convert us or shew us our Errors if we were as you say of us oh it had been your time to have sought our conversion and not to have Persecuted to have sent to Prisons Houses of Correction and by such Weapons of any outward force and cruelty have you dealt with us and not in meekness and by the Spirit of the Lord as Ministers of Christ ought to do but have cried to the Magistrates to defend you and your your Church and Worship being unable as it were by the Authority of God's Spirit to defend your selves Therefore I say unto you now lay down your Carnal Weapons and come out in the Spirit of Meekness and come out in the Authority of God's Spirit if you have it convince us thereby if we be in an evil way as you say let us hear your soundest Arguments by the Spirit of God and according to the Scriptures to prove those things which you say of us prove it by evident Arguments that we deny Scriptures and that we are Hereticks and that we are Papists I challenge you all in the Name of the Lord even all you Ministers of London let us hear your sound Reasons openly in the spirit of Meekness and do not back-bite nor slander in the dark and let us not be bawled against by your rude Members as often we have been even in the spirit of wickedness but come out you Ministers we are willing to be tried according to the Scriptures and by the Spirit of God in our Religion and in every part of it and if you be the same then come forth in the spirit of Meekness like Ministers of Christ and lay down your Carnal Weapons and let us have fair dealing openly that Truth may be manifested publickly and Error may be discovered and let us not envy one anothers persons and seek to destroy one anothers lives but let us seek to destroy the evil in one another that men might be saved and this would be a Christian-like way we would hear what you have to charge against our Religion by sound Arguments in Meekness that we may answer it and then we will charge something upon your Ministry Church Religion and Worship and we will prove what we say against you according to the Scriptures and we will not impose our Religion upon you by the force of outward Powers
the King 's own former Promises 4. All these things considered and rightly understood by the King and his Council it will appear unto them in good Reason 1. That our Meetings are just and lawful in themselves because they are for the Worship of the Lord God and to wait upon him 2. They are according to the Example of the Apostles because the Scriptures prove the like Meetings 3. And they are not contrary to his own Promises and Tolleration that he gave for Six Moneths after his coming in because he said We should not suffer for our Religion if we lived Peaceably and we were not disturbed by Authority from him that we know of in our Meetings till this Occasion 4. It will appear That we ought in Justice Equity to have our lawful Meetings Protected and Preserved by the King's Authority and not prohibited because we are not guilty of that which occasioned this present Restraint but what we have suffered in this Case it hath been upon Suspition and without any just Cause on our part And for these Ends and Causes I plead on the behalf of the Innocent that we may enjoy peaceably our Meetings for the Exercise of God's Worship and not be prohibited in the King's Dominions under his Authority 5. But and if we are persecuted and imprisoned and made to suffer for this Cause of Meeting together to Worship God and Wait upon him in Conscience and Duty towards him and for following the Scriptures Example as the Saints of old as afore-mentioned we must only commit our Cause to the God of Heaven and in Patience suffer under whatsoever is unequally inflicted upon us for this matter if men shew the height of Oppression towards us and we must put on the Spirit of Long-suffering and Forbearance and leave Vengeance to the Lord who will in his season redress our Cause if that we are Persecuted for meeting together and for Worshipping of the Lord according as his Spirit perswades our Consciences and such our Sufferings are not for Evil-doing nor as Transgressors against God nor the King but as Servants of God we suffer and fot holding the Testimony of JESUS and a Good Conscience And thus I have brought the state of our Case as concerning our Meetings unto the Kings Knowledge and must leave it to his serious View and Happy will he be if he hath regard to the Afflicted but if he stop his Ear from the Cry of the Poor and suffer them to be destroy'd who shall plead for him or excuse him in the Day of the Lord when He comes to Iudgment to reward every man according to his Deeds CHAP. III. The Case Stated and Pleaded concerning Tythes as paid among the Jews and also among the Christians and the Cause why we Refuse to pay them at this day 1. WE do acknowledge That Tythes as instituted given and received in the Law of Moses amongst the Iews and according to the Commandment of God were of Heavenly Ordination and were for that Holy Use and End of maintaining the Levitical Priesthood and the Poor the Widdows and the Strangers in Israel and we know that whilst that Levitical Priesthood of Signs and Types and Figures was yet unfinished and unfulfilled by Christ Jesus the Everlasting Priest that Law that gave and received Tythes was in force and it was sinful against God and contrary to his Law in any of Israel to with-hold their Tythes and not to pay them and such as did robbed God and the Poor and the Prophet complained against them for then the Ordination of Tythes was of God and the Practice and End of them was good and blessed But that Law and Priesthood that gave and received them is finished and ended with all the Types and Shadows of the first Covenant Heb. 7. 12. and Christ Jesus the everlasting Priest of God is come in whom is ended the first Priesthood that took Tythes and that Law that gave them and he hath put an end to Tythes Temples Priests-Office under the Law among the Iews and all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Types and Figures and First Covenant and is an High-Priest forever and the Everlasting Substance of all Shadows pertaining to the first Covenant and hath finished them and ended them even that Law and Ordinance that gave and received Tythes and that Priesthood to whom Tythes pertained so that though it was Unlawful in the first Covenant to with-hold the payment of Tythes yet that Covenant being ended and that Law and Priesthood and another Covenant and Priesthood established to whom the Law of God allows not the Tythes of mens Estates it seems now to be unlawful to pay receive or demand Tythes and for good Conscience sake we cannot do it 2. We cannot now pay Tythes according to the first Covenant nor uphold any part of the first Priesthood that stood in Types and Shadows nor submit to that Law by any Obedience to it which once gave and received Tythes seeing Jesus Christ is come in the Flesh who hath ended all that Covenant with every thing that pertaineth thereunto and we believe in Jesus Christ as the Everlasting Substance and receive the Law by which we walk in all things unto him and not from Abraham nor Moses For he is with us that is greater then they whose Law and Example we must follow in the Administration of the Gospel and not the Law and Example of Abraham and Moses in the First Covenant who did but Prophesie of Christ and did not witness him fully come but dyed in the Faith Now if we should pay Tythes according to the First Covenant and so uphold any part of that Priesthood which took Tythes which was but a Type of Christ the Everlasting PRIEST then we should deny Jesus Christ to be come in the Flesh and turn back again to the Law and to the Iews Ordinances and prove our selves Unbelievers and Antichristian for he that denies Christ to be come in the Flesh is an Antichrist 1 Iohn 4. 3. and we may as well turn back to Circumcision Sacrifices and Burnt-Offerings as to pay Tythes being all pertaining to the First Covenant and Priesthood which whomsoever doth uphold denieth Jesus Christ to be come in the Flesh and so are of Antichrist But we believe Christ is come and we have received him as the End and Finishing of the first Priesthood and we believe in him as the Everlasting Substance who hath put an end to Tythes Temples Burnt-Offerings c. and we confess unto him as our Judge and Law-giver and have renounced all Shaddows pertaining to the first Covenant whereof one was Tythes and for Conscience sake and that we may continue in the Faith of Christ the Substance and not deny him therefore it is that we refuse and cannot pay Tythes for we are Christians and Believers and not Iews nor Children of the first Covenant 3. And there is no Example by any of the Apostles or Saints in all the New Testament That ever any of the
One to such and such kind of Persons whom they name Clergy-men as if they knew all Religion and might only Preach and all besides themselves might be in Ignorance and know nothing nor can be fit to speak of the Matters of God's Kingdom which is contrary to the Scriptures and Example of Saints in former Ages As for the 13th and 14th Doctrines about Baptism of Infants I have spoken somewhat to it in my Answer to the fourth Doctrine so here I pass them Then Semper Iidem goes on and saith Who sees not among these the principal Tenets of our Anabaptists Fifth-Monarchy-Men Levellers and Quakers c Answ. As for the Anabaptists Fifth-monarchy-men and Levellers so called I shall not now plead their Cause but shall leave it to themselves to do it against Semper Iidem neither shall I condemn them with him or justifie them against him But as for the Quakers so called I have a few word to plead for them against their Adversaries though I shall be brief at this time They are neither Rebellious Seditious Hereticks nor Phanaticks though accused at this time of these things and accounted by the Author of Semper Iidem as such though neither he nor any of their false and envious Accusers that have ever risen against them can prove any such matter nor ought against them saving That they are an Innocent and Harmless People towards all people and though Sufferers by Injustice and Cruel Imprisonments under all Authorities yet not Rebellious nor Seditions against any but Peaceable and Quiet under all this is their Practice since they were a People And as for their Principles of Faith and Worship and Doctrine and Religion they are according to the Scriptures and Example of the Saints in former Ages and not ever yet convicted by any either Protestants or Papists of Error False Iudgment or Heresie though all manner of Evil hath been spoken against them in that Case yet never to this day truly detected or reprehended concerning the same And they desire no better way to be made manifest in their Doctrines and to be approved or disproved therein through the World than to have free Egress and Regress among the Papists and Protestants and all others in the Way of sober Arguments and Disputations and Reasoning out the Truth of what they hold and profess and if they can possibly be convicted that their Way and Doctrines and Religion are not found Verities but Errors then it is time to forsake them But all the Persecution that is already or can be acted upon them will never make them change their Minds till Death nor renounce the things which the Spirit of God in their own Hearts doth bear witness to the truth of And therefore let the Church of Rome lay down her Cruel Weapons of Persecution by Burning and Destroying of such as differ from them in Religion and let her admit of Disputations and sound Arguments to uphold her self thereby if she be able and to Confute and Convince such as are contrary minded to her even the Quakers so called if she can and let her cease her Fire and Faggot and Inquisition-Disputation of Murders and Cruel Tortures against such whom she calls Hereticks and let her appear in the soundest Arguments of Reason and Scripture and Antiquity that she can adorn her self withal and the Quakers so called will not doubt nor fear to advance towards her and meet her and answer her in the same for the true and legal Tryal of both that all the World may see and understand the difference between these two and whether the Papists Religion or the Quakers Religion is of more Reason Verity and Antiquity and the Quakers are willing to try this Case with the Papists engaging upon the adventure of certain Proof or Disproof of their Religion in the view of the whole World And this is the most I shall say at present on their behalf and in the mean time till this be performed let the Church of Rome and all her Members cease to persecute and accuse such whom they know not but by the Evil Reports of others and the Tenets and Principles of the Quakers so called will be justified where the false Christians cannot stand nor appear in Judgment Then Page 7. The Author of Semper Iidem complains of some Phanaticks as he calls them that nick-name what they dislike saith he They call the Church a Steeple-House the Surplice a Rag of Popery the Organs Grumbling-Pipes c. Answ. As for the True Church it is in God 1 Thes. 1. The People of God that are regenerated and sanctified wheresoever come together are the true Church of Christ for the Church was in Aquilla's House as it is written So that it is the People that are the Members of Christ the true Church and not the House or Place wherein they assemble at any time And as for calling the publick Meeting Places which some call Churches Steeple-Houses this is no Error for the Form Fashion and Service of the Place prove it to be so A great House made of Wood and Stone and a Steeple with Bells in it erected at the End of the House may properly be called a Steeple-House without Error and cannot at all be called a Church but in Error And as for the Surplice which the Priests put on this is without Question an Invention of the Church of Rome because there is no such thing in the New Testament nor was there any Surplices worn by any of the Ministers of Christ in the Apostles dayes but is an Invention introduced into the World by the Church of Rome and so is and may be called A Piece or Rag if you will of Popery And as for Organs and the Practice of them as held forth for the Worship of God there was no such thing among the Apostles neither did the Saints of the Primitive Church hold forth the Worship of God by playing on the Organs but the true spiritual Gospel-Worship is more heavenly and spiritual even in the Spirit and in the Truth is God worshipped as Christ said and not by outward Musick on Organs and such like but this is also an Invention of the Church of Rome since the Apostles dayes And Organs having Pipes of different sounds may be called Grumbling-Pipes without Offence Again Page 11. It is charged as a great Error in some that held It was not lawful for a Christian to take an Oath Answ. To deny all Swearing and taking of Oaths is according to the Doctrine and Command of Christ Jesus who hath said Swear not at all so it s manifest that the false Christians accuse and condemn such for Hereticks as abide in the Doctrine of Christ and keep his Commands And thus both Papists and Protestants are found in Error and Heresie themselves and breaking the Command of Christ and walking contrary to his Doctrine in Swearing and taking Oaths and condemning such as Hereticks as cannot take an Oath for Conscience sake and so
exercise of Faith Worship and Religion to God-wards may be allowed and maintained unto all without any imposition violence or persecution exercised about the same on the persons Estates or Consciences of any in any relation to Religion the Worship of God Church Government and Ministry But that all Christian People may be left free in all these Kingdoms in the exercise of Conscience without being restrained from or compelled to any way of worship and practise of Religion upon any pains and penalties and that every one may be admitted to worship God in that way as his spirit perswades the heart and may be defended in such their profession of Religion while they make not use of their Liberty to the detrement of any other mens persons or Estates as aforesaid And let it not seem strange to you why I appear in this manner and matter at such a season as this for your very Happiness prosperity and establishment or the contrary dependeth hereupon even in allowing and maintaining liberty of Conscience in the exercise of Religion or in limitting and forcing and persecuting about the same and this may appear if you justly consider these things following 1. The Lordship in and over conscience and the exercise thereof in all matters of Faith and Worship and duty to God-wards is Gods alone only and proper right and priviledge and he hath reserved this power and Authority in himself and not committed the Lordship over Conscience nor the exercise thereof in the cases of faith and worship to any upon Earth not to perscribe and impose principles and practises of Faith and worship and Religion by force and violence on the persons and Consciences of men but this belongs only to God even to work faith in the heart and to convert to holiness and to lead and teach people by his Spirit in his worship and to exercise their Consciences in all his wayes For the Apostles themselves said they had not Dominion over the Faith of the Saints 2 Cor. 1. 24. but the Lord alone And King Charles the first said in his Meditations page 91. of that Edition Printed for R. Royston I have often declared how little I desire my Laws and Scepter should intrench on God's Soveraignity which is the only King of men's Consciences c. So that to be Lord in CONSCIENCE and Exerciser thereof in all the Matters of God's Kingdom is his Only Proper Right and to him alone it appertains 2. And therefore consider If ye do not allow Free Liberty of Conscience and give unto God the Lordship and Exercise thereof in all Matters of Faith and Worship to Him-wards but do impose by Violence in forcing to and restraining from such and such Wayes of Religion than ye take Dominion over mens Faith which ye ought not to do and ye intrench on God's Soveraignity and usurpe his Authority in exercising Lordship over the Conscience in and over which Christ is only King as before recited and ye ought not to take his right from him nor to exercise that Authority over ruens Faith and Consciences which only appertains unto him as his proper priviledge for in so doing how dangerous effects may it bring forth even ye may easily provoke the Lord to wrath against you and bring upon your selves sorrow and misery if ye exercise violence upon mens Consciences in and concerning Religious matters contrary to the Scriptures and the example of Primitive Christians who were persecuted for their Conscience sake but did never persecute nor punish any for that cause nor ever used violence about their Religion as Charles the I. in his meditations pag. 82. Nothing said he violent nor injurious can be religious c. 3. Consider if ye allow not the free exercise of Conscience in Spiritual matters but do take Dommion over mens faith and impose by violence in the cases of Conscience about Religion and do not suffer the Lord to enjoy his only right to be King in the matters of his own Kingdom then ye divert the end of just rule and government among men and pervert the end of Gods great love and favour shewed unto you in restoring of you to the place of Authority and Judgement for the end of just Government upon earth by Kings and Rulers is To exercise Justice Truth and Righteousness among men and over the outward man and to be a praise to all that do wellâ— and walk uprightly and to be a terror to all transgressors and them that do evil in their outward man and to keep the outward man in good order by just Judgment in all cases between man and man This is only the extent of your Authority over the outward man and to your Jurisdiction only this belongs to judge in Truth and Righteousness to make Laws and execute them between man and man to preserve mens persons and estates from the wrong one of another but not at all to make Laws and execute them between God and mens Consciences in the cases of his Spiritual Kingdom this power belongs to God and he hath not committed it to you to exercise and therefore let justice equity and mercy be exercised by you among men and over the outward man and in all cases between man and man but meddle not in the Cases of mens faith to God and their Consciences to him but leave that unto him alone whose right it is for it is dangerous and will bring wofull effects if ye intrench on Gods Soveraignity and if ye divert the proper end of just Government and of the Love of God in restoring you into Authority and power 4. Consider if ye allow not free Liberty of Conscience in the profession and practice of spiritual things but will compel by violence about Religion then this will inavoidably produce and bring forth cruel persecution in the Kingdoms imprisonment banishment and death and all the evil effects of persecution will fill the Nations for though never so forceable impositions be laid on the persons estates and consciences of men for the cause of difference in Judgment and practises of Religion and tocompel into Conformity yet it cannot be supposed that all will bow and conform to the denying of that way which they are perswaded in Conscience to be right and to the embracing of what they cannot in Conscience believe is of God but will rather suffer the cruelest death then conform to any thing contrary to light and knowledge and if free Liberty of Conscience be denied many such must needs be exposed to Persecution even to Death though they may be Peaceable People and profitable Inhabitants of the Kingdoms and in the things between man and man and in all matters Temporal pertaining to the King may be Just and Righteous and Unreprovable yet because of Difference in Judgment and Opinion exposed to be destroyed in person and estate and such effects will not be of honour nor saftey to these Nations if innocent and just men be destroyed and their relations ruined
of his truth so in conversion and regeneration that many can say the Way of the Lord is so made manifest that we look not for another nor are doubtful of the Way of Eternal Life therefore be established stedfast and constant in that way not easily moved nor tossed too and frô with men nor new Doctrines nor changeable things but approve your hearts in uprightness before the Lord by being faithful to the end faithful I say to be and do according to the measure of Light and Grace and Knowledge that God hath already committed to you that ye may not offend against the Grace of God but may glorifie the Lord in your Souls and Spirits being joyned in your hearts and married to the Living God and the Lord becomes Your Husband according to the Promise but if any be of a changeable Spirit such will receive Temptations and go out of the Covenant of God and abuse the gift of God if their heart be not meek and lowly and humble and perfect in the sight of God though there may be a taste of the Love of God yet there can be no assurance of it if the heart be not aright before the Lord and faithful and constant in his Truth and therefore all must wait to receive the assurance of Eternal Life in themselves even such an assurance of Life and Peace and Joy and Comfort that there can be no departing away being established in the Heir-ship never to loose the Crown Heirs of the power of God of his Wisdom of his Righteousness inheriters and Possessors of the Eternal Life that ye may dwell in the house forever not onely as Servants but as Sons not onely as such that have tasted of the Love of God but as such as are born Heirs thereof and must inherit the same forever Now dear Friends if this were my last unto You more then this the Lord hath not to say by me and last of all in the Spirit of the Lord Jesus I charge all the Saints to be faithfull to the Principles and Doctrines which Ye have heard and received and been taught of Christ through his Gospel Oh be not inconstant and unfaithful in those Principles and Doctrines which the Spirit of God hath perswaded your Consciences of the truth of for if any are unfaithful they deny the Lord of Life before men and must be denyed of him before the Father therefore let us put on strength and courage to be faithful and constant in life or death to follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes and if we must suffer for our profession and practice of those truths which God hath perswaded our Consciences of the verity of we shall never be ashamed nor confounded before the Adversary though we gaom Tribulations Persecutions yea death it self for the Name of the Lord and his Truth yet we shall obtain the Crown of Glory which never fades away and verily all the Suffering and afflictions of this Present time are not worthy to be compared to that weight of Peace and comfort which is and shall be revealed amongst us And as concerning our Obedience to Government ever since we were a People Ye know what our Principle and Practise in that case hath been even to obey all men in all things either by doing or suffering if at any time ye are required to do any thing by any in Authority which is not agreeing but contrary to the Scriptures example of the Saints and the Spirit of Christ in your own consciences then ye are to suffer whatsoever if it be death it self rather then to obey and submit to the doing of that which is contrary to a good conscience this hath ever been our Principle and Practise since we were a People agreeing with the practise of the holy Prophets Apostles and Martyrs in all ages who rather did suffer grievous oppressions and persecutions then to obey any command of men in power by doing any thing contrary to the testimony of the Spirit of God in their own particulars let us all be like-minded this day not to do nor bend nor be in any wise contrary to the Spirit of Christ that dwels in us but rather suffer whatsoever may be imposed then to sin against that Light and knowledge of the Spirit of Christ which he hath given us but let us keep a clean heart and a pure Conscience to God-wards and therein we shall triumph over all in our inward Man though our outward man be afflicted and in this we shall have peace and comfort in God over all our Adversaries And as concerning your meetings the Lord hath given you the testimony of his Spirit in you for the verity and righteousness thereof though ye should suffer persecution for the same yet ye have the Spirit of Christ testifying in your hearts that this Way and Practise of meeting together as our practise hath been is of God and he Justifies us in the same and we have sufficient of assurance by the holy Spirit to stand faithful in that practise of assembling together to Worship God First we have the testimony of Scriptures and example of Saints in the Apostles daies to prove this practice of Meeting together The first Christians they met together in this manner and way as we do now they met in private houses and from house to house separate and apart from the Publique Synagogues and all other Sects and it is clear that we have the example of Saints and Scripture Proof for this our practise of meeting together 2. We have our own experience for these divers years how that the Spirit of the Lord hath moved our hearts to assemble together and the presence and power of the Lord Jesus Christ hath been amongst us and we have tasted of the goodness and love of the Lord being so met together how often hath the Lord met with us and his countenance shined upon us and our souls have been refreshed strengthened and comforted in this practise of meeting together these things are true and may confirm us in this practise of meeting together and to be faithful to the end 3. We have the full perswasions of the Spirit of God lively and fervent in our hearts at this moment that we ought not to neglect the Assembling of our selves together but that God requires it of us and it is his will that his People meet together to worship him in Spirit and Truth separate from all the world even in one Spirit and in the Name and power of Jesus I hope ye are all like-minded herein and that the Spirit of Christ perswades your Consciences in the Truth of that practise therefore be faithful unto God herein and sin not against the testimony of Scriptures and example of the first Christians nor against your own experience nor against the admonitions of the Servants of the Lord who are the first fruits unto God since the Apostacy and have again and again in the Name and Spirit of Christ exhorted you to meet
be with you all Edw. Burroughs Underbarrow the 18th day of the 8th Moneth 1661. THE CASE Of the People called QUAKERS ONCE MORE Stated Published TO THE WORLD VVith the ACCUSATIONS charged upon them and their ANSWERS WE are an afflicted and Suffering People in these Kingdoms at this day Mocked Reproached Haled before Magistrates Violently abused and Imprisoned and much Hard-dealing exercised upon us This is apparently visible to all people and needs no further Proof But whether these Afflictions and Sufferings Imprisonments and Hard-dealing be Just or Unjust according to our Deserts or out of the Malice and Enmity of our Adversaries this is the Question to be enquired into Unjust and Unrighteous and out of Malice and Enmity and not of true Desert say we are these Sufferings imposed on us But Justly and according to Desert and the Laws of the Land say our Adversaries Who shall be judge in the Case between us Even the Law of God the Gospel of Christ the Scriptures of Truth the Example of Primitive Christians our Neighbours and the Witness in every Mans Conscience and to the Judgment of all these we appeal and shall abide their Sentence First We are Accused of an Heinous Crime and as if we deserved the greatest Punishments Because we are Dissenting and Differing from the Church of England and cannot Conform to all Her Worships and Ceremonies therefore are we said to be Hereticks Because holding and practizing Different Things from Her c. Plea First The Scriptures of Truth which are according to both Law and Gospel do say and Judge That they who sometimes did Dissent and Differ from some of the Church of Christ in some Principles and Practices and could not practice in all things what some others did as Romans 14. where it is signified That some of the Church of Christ believed they might eat All Things some others of the Church did eat Hearbs some esteemed One day above Another others esteemed Every day Alike this kind of dissenting and difference about Meats and Dayes and Ceremonies were amongst the Members of the True Church but What is the Judgment of Scripture in this case of Difference amongst them Not that the Dissenters one from another should be Punished and Imprisoned and Banished but ver 5. Let every man be perswaded in his own mind And One was not so much as to Judge Another in this case of Difference and Dissenting much less to Imprison one another for that Cause And in Phil. 3. 15. it is there signified That if any persons were dissenting and different in Judgment or in the growth in Grace from the rest of the Church every one was to walk in that measure of Truth as he had attained to And if any were otherwise-minded viz. Different in the Growth in the Grace of God then God should reveal the same unto them And notwithstanding their difference in Judgment whether in cases Substantial or Ceremonial yet they were still to be in Love and Unity and walk in their measures to which they had atained and they were not to be Imprisoned and persecuted as we are at this day Hence observe That the Judgment of Scriptures which the Law of God and Gospel of Christ are according to is clear for us and against them that hate us that imprison us and afflict us for dissenting and differing in some Doctrines and Practices from the Church of England But Secondly If we were indeed Hereticks and Erroneous People suppose so which never yet was truly proved of us nor can be What Judgment do the Scriptures which are according to the Law of God and Gospel of Christ give in that case Not that we should be thus imprisoned and Afflicted with corporal punishments but according to Titus Tit. 3 10 11. we should first be Admonished in Love and Exhorted once and again and then if we gain-say and will not hear Reproof to be Rejected cast Out and Denyed of the Assembly of Saints but not imprisoned and banished and according to 1 Cor. 5. where it is signified That some in the denomination of the Church did Offend against Christ and the Church and were Hereticks and Dissenters because of their Evil deeds from the True Church yet these were not to be imprisoned and persecuted in their persons but delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the Flesh that the Spirit might be saved in the Day of the Lord they were to be Spiritually dealt withal and they were to be cast out into the Wicked World anong the Ungodly to have their portion from God with the Wicked to be delivered to Satan for the destruction of the Flesh that it might be destroyed and the Spirit saved in the Day of the Lord. So if we were indeed such as these were Dissenters and in Difference from the true Church because of some Wickedness yet the Judgment of Scriptures are against our Enemies in this Case who persecute and imprison us for thus it ought not to be done unto us if the Church of England were the true Church of Christ and we in difference from her by False Principles or Evil Conversation or any thing else Thus you see the Judgement of the Scriptures and of the Law of God and Gospel of Christ is against our Persecutors Thirdly But suppose we doubt That the Church of England and its Ordinances Discipline its Worship and Ceremonies be not according to the Scriptures of Truth but are in the Form of Godliness without the Power suppose we in Conscience believe this and think we can prove it which is the very truth of the Case and therefore do deny Conformity to her lest we should sin against God and wrong our own Consciences at least as we believe What Judgment doth the Law of God and Gospel of Christ give in this Case We are Exhorted and Comanded in Scripture 2 Tim. 3. From Covetous Men and Proud Men Lovers of themselves false Accusers Despisers of them that are Good High-minded Men and Lovers of Pleasures they that have the Form of Godliness but deny the Power from all such we are to turn away And therefore we believe we are Justified by the Scriptures in turning away for these divers years past and till we be otherwise perswaded by sound Doctrine from the Ministry and Churches that are in England or lately have been and sound Reason hath not been yet shewed us to the contrary by you because they are such as the Scriptures exhort us to turn away from and because we have judged that they have had the Form of Godliness but not the Power so we are not to be imprisoned and persecuted though we differ and dissent and turn away from all them that are Covetous Proud Boasters Lovers of themselves Despisers of them that are Good High minded Men and such as have a form of godliness but not the Power But we are Judged Just and our Case not condemned by the Law of God and Gospel of Christ and by the holy
Scriptures but rather such as inflict Sufferings upon us And for any of our Principles and Doctrines that we hold we deserve no punishment nor persecution because hereof for we testify before God Angels and Men That we hold and maintain no principles of Religion nor practice of Worship nor Doctrines of Gospel but what are according to Scriptures of Truth And we are ready to be tryed and proved in that case and to bring the matter to Issue in fair proceedings with any man that shall object the contrary And thus the Judgment of Scriptures are for us as we suppose at least and if we are in Errour either by denying any thing on the one hand or affirming any thing on the other we have not been hitherto well Proceeded against in order to our Conviction Secondly We are accused as for a great Crime and Imprisoned because we meet together in the Name and Power of Iesus Christ to wait upon him and to Worship him in Spirit and Truth in Prayer to God and Exhortations one to another to Righteousness and Holiness But what Iudgment doth the Law and Gospel and holy Scriptures give and our Neighbours also between us in this Case Le ts come all to their Barr and receive Iust Sentence Plea First The Judgment of God's Law Christ's Gospel and holy Scriptures are not against our meeting together but on the contrary do command us and Exhort us with promises of blessings to meet together in the Worship of God and to wait upon him And it was the practice of the primitive Christians to assemble themselves together in that form and manner as we do at this day to wit in a private manner and separate from the multitude and all the Iews Synagogues as in Acts 1. 17. The Saints and Disciples both Men and Women to the number of one hundred and twenty which were far more then five went into an upper Chamber being a private place and no publique Synagogue and their waited upon the Lord in Prayer and Supplication according as we do at this day Thus the Scriptures justify the way and manner of our Meetings and condemns them not Again in Acts 20. 8. the Saints and Disciples were gathered together in an upper Chamber and Paul Preached unto them until mid-night Here was a private Meeting far above the number of five and out of any Publick Synagogues and Christ Iesus said Where two or three are met together in my Name there I am in the midct of them And He and his Disciples often met together in private places apart from the Jews publick Worships sometimes in a Ship and sometimes in Desarts and on the Mountains and in particular Houses and Preached and Prayed this the Scriptures Prove And also in Heb. 10. 25. we are expresly commanded not to neglect the Assembling of our selves together but to exhort one another and so much the more as the day approached By all which Scriptures with many more that might be quoted it is Evident to all the World That our meeting together for the Worship of God in that form and manner as Practised by us is according to the Law of God the Gospel of Christ Jesus and the holy Scriptures And all these give Just Judgment for us and Justify us and therefore consequently condemn such as do violence to us for this practise of Meeting together for the Worship of God And thus though we are Accused and Imprisoned as Evil doers yet such our practise of meeting is manifestly according to the Law of God Gospel of Christ Scriptures Example of Saints and President of primitive Christians all which give Judgment for us Secondly What Judgment do our Neighbours give in this Case they say concerning our Meetings That they have known us to meet together in such manner for diverse years in their Towns and Villages and never knew nor understood of any harm or danger herein nor ever were any way prejudiced either in their Persons or Estates by our meetings The very witness of God in all our Neighbours do Testify and give Iudgment that our Meetings have alwayes been peaceable and quiet and that we come together in peace and good order and parted in the same and no person hath been harmed by such our Meetings enquire of the Nighbourhood and they will tell you they believe in their Consciences our Meetings are for good and have good effects and are not evil nor brings forth any evil to any And as for the manner of our Meeting and and sitting together it 's orderly and decently and of good report among men and for any Doctrine that ever was there held or heard by any none can truly accuse it to be either Error or Heresie or Sedition but on the contrary they know it witnesseth against all Sin and Iniquity and tends to the turning of people from Ungodliness and Unrighteousness to Truth and Holiness And many can tell this is effected by our Doctrine Preached in our Meetings and our Neighbours can witness that we part again in Peace and Good order and in convenient time and they can shew you they are not terrified nor the peace of the Land disturbed on our part by our Meetings which are in God's fear and to the Glory of his Name which all sober men know are according to the Law of God and Gospel and primitive Christians Example And thus our Neighbours give Judgment for us and in their Consciences do not Justify them that Imprison us for this matter of meeting together which Gods Law Gospel Scriptures and our Neighbours do thus clearly justifie Thirdly We are Accused as guilty of a heinous Crime and Imprisoned Because we refuse to Swear at all or take any Oath in any Case Plea First The Judgment of the Law of the New Testament of God and Gospel of Christ and Scriptures in this case is clear on our behalf As in the express Command of Christ in his Law and Scriptures Recorded Mat. 5. where he saith Swear not at all by Heaven nor Earth nor by Ierusalem nor by the Head but let your yea be yea and your nay nay for whatsoever is more comes of Evil. And again Iam. 5. the Apostle commandeth the Saints in these words Above all things my Brethren Swear not by Heaven nor Earth nor any other Oath And many holy Martyrs since the Apostles dayes did deny all Swearing Thus you see the Judgment of Christ Jesus and of the Gospel and of the Apostle and of Scriptures are so far from Condemning of us to Imprisonment and Banishment for our refusing to Swear that we are Commanded and Exhorted by them not to Swear at all and therefore consequently justify us in our refusing to Swear and thus give not Judgment for such as do Imprison and Persecute us for not Swearing Come to the Judgment of Christ his Gospel and holy Scriptures Let you and us appear together be fore their Judgment Seat whether they give judgment against us that deny all Swearing or