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scripture_n authority_n church_n interpretation_n 4,397 5 10.0901 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A85082 Sir Lucius Cary, late Lord Viscount of Falkland, his discourse of infallibility, with an answer to it: and his Lordships reply. Never before published. Together with Mr. Walter Mountague's letter concerning the changing his religion. / Answered by my Lord of Falkland. Falkland, Lucius Cary, Viscount, 1610?-1643.; Falkland, Lucius Cary, Viscount, 1610?-1643.; White, Thomas, 1593-1676.; Montagu, Walter, 1603?-1677.; Triplett, Thomas, 1602 or 3-1670. 1651 (1651) Wing F317; Thomason E634_1; ESTC R4128 179,640 346

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and_o better_a wit_n saint_n augustine_n justifi_v such_o proceed_n against_o here_o tiques_n saint_n gregory_n advise_v the_o like_a against_o pagan_n if_o i_o remember_v and_o the_o church_n later_o have_v rather_o increase_v then_o decrease_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o mores_n speech_n i_o believe_v be_v mistake_v the_o force_n of_o it_o be_v that_o the_o banishment_n of_o bishop_n show_v his_o faith_n because_o the_o banish_a be_v catholic_n which_o show_v lucius_n to_o be_v none_o but_o what_o can_v be_v say_v if_o the_o church_n use_v that_o for_o the_o prevention_n of_o a_o great_a and_o more_o dangerous_a evil_n which_o all_o politic_a estate_n use_v for_o the_o remedy_n of_o less_o and_o less_o dangerous_a evil_n and_o be_v commend_v for_o it_o for_o if_o faith_n be_v the_o way_n of_o salvation_n and_o hereby_o the_o bane_n of_o faith_n if_o salvation_n be_v the_o great_a good_a than_o the_o danger_n of_o a_o country_n be_v over_o run_v with_o heresy_n be_v the_o great_a 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answer_n that_o ever_o i_o can_v meet_v to_o this_o objection_n i_o repeat_v no_o more_o these_o place_n be_v so_o positive_a to_o our_o point_n this_o confession_n of_o invisibilitie_n in_o our_o church_n for_o so_o many_o age_n do_v much_o perplex_v i_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o even_o to_o offend_v natural_a reason_n such_o a_o derogation_n from_o god_n power_n or_o providence_n as_o the_o sufferance_n of_o so_o great_a a_o eclipse_n of_o the_o light_n of_o this_o true_a church_n and_o such_o a_o church_n as_o this_o be_v describe_v to_o be_v seem_v to_o i_o repugnant_a to_o the_o main_a reason_n why_o god_n have_v a_o church_n on_o earth_n which_o be_v to_o be_v conserver_n of_o the_o doctrine_n christ_n precept_n and_o to_o convey_v it_o from_o age_n to_o age_n until_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n therefore_o i_o apply_v my_o study_n to_o peruse_v such_o argument_n as_o the_o catholic_n bring_v for_o the_o proof_n of_o a_o continual_a visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n down_o 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suppose_v to_o have_v be_v keep_v in_o some_o hand_n who_o authority_n must_v beget_v our_o acceptance_n of_o it_o which_o be_v no_o other_o thing_n then_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n we_o have_v no_o more_o reason_n to_o believe_v that_o it_o have_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n free_a from_o all_o corruption_n then_o that_o it_o have_v maintain_v itself_o in_o a_o continual_a visibility_n which_o saint_n augustine_n conclude_v to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n in_o these_o word_n in_o his_o book_n cont._n cecil_n 104._o the_o true_a church_n have_v this_o certain_a sign_n that_o it_o can_v be_v hide_v therefore_o it_o must_v be_v know_v to_o all_o nation_n but_o that_o part_n of_o the_o protestant_n be_v unknown_a to_o many_o therefore_o can_v be_v the_o true_a no_o inference_n can_v be_v strong_a than_o from_o hence_o that_o the_o concealment_n of_o a_o church_n disprove_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o last_o not_o to_o insist_v upon_o the_o allegation_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o all_o the_o father_n of_o the_o church_n in_o every_o several_a age_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o most_o clear_a that_o which_o in_o this_o cause_n weigh_v much_o with_o i_o be_v the_o confession_n and_o testimony_n of_o the_o approve_a doctor_n themselves_o of_o the_o protestant_a church_n as_o hooker_n in_o his_o book_n of_o eccles_n pol._n pag._n 126._o god_n always_o have_v and_o must_v have_v some_o visible_a church_n upon_o earth_n and_o doctor_n field_n the_o first_o of_o eccles_n cap._n 10._o it_o can_v be_v but_o those_o that_o be_v the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v know_v by_o the_o profession_n of_o truth_n and_o further_o the_o same_o doctor_n say_v how_o shall_v the_o church_n be_v in_o the_o world_n and_o nobody_o profess_v open_o the_o save_a truth_n of_o god_n and_o doctor_n white_a in_o his_o defence_n of_o the_o way_n chap._n 4._o pag._n 790._o the_o providence_n of_o god_n have_v leave_v monument_n and_o story_n for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o i_o confess_v true_o that_o our_o religion_n be_v false_a if_o a_o continual_a descent_n of_o it_o can_v be_v demonstrate_v by_o these_o monument_n down_o from_o christ_n time_n this_o appear_v unto_o i_o a_o direct_a submission_n of_o themselves_o to_o produce_v these_o apparent_a testimony_n of_o the_o public_a profession_n of_o their_o faith_n as_o the_o catholic_n demand_n but_o this_o i_o can_v never_o read_v nor_o know_v of_o any_o that_o perform_v for_o doctor_n white_n himself_o for_o want_v of_o proof_n of_o this_o be_v fain_o to_o say_v in_o another_o place_n in_o his_o way_n to_o the_o church_n pag._n 510._o the_o doctor_n of_o our_o faith_n have_v have_v a_o continual_a succession_n though_o not_o visible_a to_o the_o world_n so_o that_o he_o fly_v from_o his_o undertake_n of_o a_o conspicuous_a demonstration_n of_o the_o monument_n of_o his_o faith_n to_o a_o invisible_a subterfuge_n or_o a_o belief_n without_o appearance_n for_o he_o say_v in_o the_o same_o book_n in_o another_o place_n pag._n 84._o all_o the_o eternal_a government_n of_o the_o church_n may_v fail_v so_o as_o a_o local_a and_o personal_a succession_n of_o pastor_n may_v be_v interrupt_v and_o pag._n 403._o we_o do_v not_o contest_v for_o a_o external_a succession_n it_o suffice_v that_o they_o succeed_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o faithful_n which_o in_o all_o age_n do_v embrace_v the_o same_o faith_n so_o as_o here_o he_o remove_v absolute_o all_o external_a proof_n of_o succession_n which_o before_o he_o consent_v to_o be_v guide_v by_o i_o can_v say_v i_o have_v verbal_o cite_v these_o author_n because_o i_o have_v translate_v these_o place_n though_o the_o original_a be_v in_o english_a yet_o i_o be_o sure_a their_o sense_n be_v no_o way_n injure_v and_o i_o have_v choose_v to_o allege_v doctor_n whites_n authority_n because_o he_o be_v a_o orthodox_n professor_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n the_o reflection_n of_o the_o state_n of_o this_o question_n where_o i_o find_v the_o protestant_n defend_v themselves_o only_o by_o fly_v out_o of_o sight_n by_o confess_v a_o long_a invisibility_n in_o their_o church_n in_o appearance_n of_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n the_o same_o interpretation_n leave_v i_o much_o loosen_v from_o the_o fastness_n of_o my_o profess_a religion_n but_o have_v not_o yet_o transport_v i_o to_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o i_o have_v a_o opinion_n that_o our_o divine_n may_v yet_o fill_v up_o this_o vacancy_n with_o some_o more_o substantial_a than_o i_o can_v meet_v with_o so_o i_o come_v back_o into_o england_n with_o a_o purpose_n of_o seek_v nothing_o so_o intentive_o as_o this_o satisfaction_n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n i_o do_v covert_o under_o another_o man_n name_n send_v this_o my_o scruple_n to_o one_o who_o learning_n and_o sufficiency_n i_o have_v
acceptance_n of_o it_o which_o be_v no_o other_o than_o the_o church_n of_o all_o age_n we_o have_v no_o more_o reason_n to_o believe_v that_o it_o have_v preserve_v that_o free_a from_o corruption_n than_o itself_o in_o a_o continual_a visibilitie_n i_o answer_v that_o neither_o to_o give_v authority_n to_o scripture_n nor_o to_o the_o keep_n of_o they_o be_v require_v a_o continual_a visibility_n of_o a_o no-way_n err_v body_n of_o christian_n the_o writer_n of_o they_o give_v they_o their_o authority_n among_o christian_n nor_o can_v the_o church_n move_v any_o other_o and_o that_o they_o be_v the_o writer_n we_o receive_v from_o the_o general_a tradition_n and_o testimony_n of_o the_o first_o christian_n not_o from_o any_o follow_a church_n who_o can_v know_v nothing_o of_o it_o but_o from_o they_o for_o for_o those_o part_n which_o be_v then_o doubt_v of_o by_o such_o as_o be_v not_o condemn_v for_o it_o by_o the_o rest_n why_o may_v not_o we_o remain_v in_o the_o same_o suspense_n of_o they_o that_o they_o do_v and_o for_o their_o be_v keep_v and_o convey_v this_o be_v not_o do_v only_o by_o their_o church_n but_o by_o other_o as_o by_o the_o greek_n and_o their_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o say_v that_o to_o the_o keep_n and_o transmit_v of_o record_n safe_o it_o be_v require_v to_o understand_v they_o perfect_o since_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v keep_v and_o transmit_v by_o the_o jew_n who_o yet_o be_v so_o capable_a of_o err_v that_o out_o of_o it_o they_o look_v for_o a_o temporal_a king_n when_o it_o speak_v of_o a_o spiritual_a and_o i_o think_v the_o testimony_n be_v great_a of_o a_o church_n which_o contradict_v the_o scripture_n then_o of_o one_o which_o do_v not_o since_o no_o man_n witness_v be_v so_o soon_o to_o be_v take_v as_o when_o against_o himself_o and_o so_o their_o testimony_n be_v more_o receiveable_a which_o be_v give_v to_o the_o scripture_n by_o which_o themselves_o be_v condemn_v beside_o the_o general_a reverence_n which_o ever_o have_v be_v give_v to_o these_o book_n and_o the_o continual_a use_n of_o they_o together_o with_o several_a party_n have_v always_o their_o eye_n upon_o each_o other_o each_o desirous_a to_o have_v somewhat_o to_o accuse_v in_o their_o adversary_n give_v we_o a_o great_a certainty_n that_o these_o be_v the_o same_o writing_n than_o we_o have_v that_o any_o other_o ancient_a book_n be_v any_o other_o ancient_a author_n and_o we_o need_v not_o to_o have_v any_o err_a company_n preserve_v to_o make_v we_o sure_a of_o it_o yet_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o infallible_a a_o depositarie_n as_o she_o be_v have_v suffer_v some_o variety_n to_o creep_v into_o the_o copy_n in_o some_o less_o material_a thing_n nay_o and_o some_o whole_a book_n as_o they_o themselves_o say_v to_o be_v lose_v and_o if_o they_o say_v how_o then_o can_v that_o be_v rule_n whereof_o part_n be_v lose_v i_o reply_v that_o we_o be_v excuse_v if_o we_o walk_v by_o all_o the_o rule_n that_o we_o have_v and_o that_o this_o make_v as_o much_o against_o tradition_n be_v the_o rule_n since_o the_o church_n have_v not_o look_v better_a to_o god_n unwritten_a word_n then_o to_o his_o write_a and_o if_o she_o pretend_v she_o have_v let_v she_o tell_v we_o the_o cause_n why_o antichrist_n come_v be_v defer_v which_o be_v a_o tradition_n of_o saint_n paul_n to_o the_o thessalonian_o and_o which_o without_o impudence_n she_o can_v pretend_v to_o have_v lose_v and_o if_o again_o they_o say_v god_n have_v preserve_v all_o necessary_a tradition_n i_o reply_v so_o have_v he_o all_o necessary_a scripture_n for_o by_o not_o be_v preserve_v it_o become_v to_o we_o not_o necessary_a since_o we_o can_v be_v bind_v to_o believe_v and_o follow_v that_o we_o can_v find_v but_o beside_o i_o believe_v that_o which_o be_v ever_o necessary_a be_v contain_v in_o what_o remain_v for_o pappias_n say_v of_o saint_n mark_n that_o he_o write_v all_o that_o saint_n peter_n preach_v as_o irenaeus-doth_a that_o luke_n write_v all_o that_o saint_n paul_n preach_v nay_o vincentius_n lirinensis_n though_o he_o will_v have_v the_o scripture_n expound_v by_o ancient_a tradition_n yet_o confess_v that_o all_o be_v there_o which_o be_v necessary_a and_o yet_o then_o there_o be_v no_o more_o scripture_n than_o we_o now_o have_v as_o indeed_o by_o such_o a_o tradition_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o no_o more_o can_v be_v prove_v then_o be_v plain_o there_o and_o almost_o all_o christian_n consent_n in_o and_o true_o i_o wonder_v that_o they_o shall_v brag_v so_o much_o of_o that_o author_n since_o both_o in_o this_o and_o other_o thing_n he_o make_v much_o against_o they_o as_o especial_o in_o not_o send_v man_n to_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n for_o a_o guide_n a_o much_o ready_a way_n if_o he_o have_v know_v it_o than_o such_o a_o long_a and_o doubtful_a rule_n as_o he_o prescribe_v which_o indeed_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o almost_o any_o question_n shall_v be_v end_v by_o eleven_o he_o bring_v saint_n austin_n authority_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v always_o visible_a but_o if_o he_o understand_v church_n in_o mr_n mountagues_n sense_n i_o think_v he_o be_v deceive_v neither_o be_v this_o impudent_a for_o i_o to_o say_v since_o i_o have_v cause_n to_o think_v it_o but_o his_o particular_a opinion_n by_o his_o say_n which_o cardinal_n perron_n quote_v that_o before_o the_o donatist_n the_o question_n of_o the_o church_n have_v never_o be_v exact_o dispute_v of_o and_o by_o this_o be_v one_o of_o his_o main_a ground_n against_o they_o and_o yet_o claim_v no_o tradition_n but_o only_a place_n of_o scripture_n most_o of_o they_o allegorical_a and_o if_o it_o be_v no_o more_o i_o may_v better_o dissent_v from_o it_o than_o he_o from_o all_o the_o first_o father_n for_o dionysius_n arcopagita_n be_v not_o then_o hatch_v in_o the_o point_n of-the_a chiliast_n though_o some_o of_o they_o pappias_n and_o irenaeus_n claim_v a_o direct_a tradition_n and_o christ_n own_o word_n second_o as_o use_v this_o kind_n of_o liberty_n so_o he_o profess_v it_o in_o his_o nineteenth_o epistle_n where_o he_o say_v that_o to_o canonical_a scripture_n he_o have_v learn_v to_o give_v the_o reverence_n as_o not_o to_o doubt_v of_o what_o they_o say_v because_o they_o say_v it_o from_o all_o other_o he_o expect_v proof_n from_o scripture_n or_o reason_n three_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n condemn_v several_a opinion_n of_o he_o and_o therefore_o she_o ought_v not_o to_o find_v fault_n with_o they_o who_o imitate_v her_o example_n twelve_o he_o add_v two_o reason_n more_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o father_n of_o all_o age_n and_o the_o confession_n of_o protestant_n to_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v that_o i_o know_v not_o of_o any_o such_o and_o be_o the_o more_o unapt_a to_o believe_v it_o because_o mr._n montague_n vouchsafe_v not_o to_o insist_v upon_o nor_o to_o quote_v any_o which_o i_o guess_v he_o will_v have_v do_v but_o that_o he_o misdoubt_v their_o strength_n second_o suppose_v that_o all_o the_o father_n which_o speak_v of_o this_o do_v say_v so_o yet_o if_o they_o say_v it_o but_o as_o private_a doctor_n and_o claim_v no_o tradition_n i_o know_v not_o why_o they_o shall_v weigh_v more_o than_o so_o many_o of_o the_o now_o learned_a who_o have_v more_o help_n from_o art_n and_o no_o few_o from_o nature_n be_v not_o worse_a searcher_n into_o what_o be_v truth_n though_o less_o capable_a of_o be_v witness_n to_o what_o be_v tradition_n three_o they_o themselves_o often_o profess_v they_o expect_v not_o to_o be_v read_v as_o judge_n but_o as_o to_o be_v judge_v by_o their_o and_o our_o rule_n the_o cononicall_a scripture_n four_o let_v he_o please_v to_o read_v about_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n rosa_n salmeron_n and_o wadding_n and_o he_o will_v find_v i_o as_o submissive_a to_o antiquity_n even_o whilst_o i_o reject_v it_o as_o those_o of_o their_o own_o party_n for_o they_o to_o prefer_v new_a opinion_n before_o old_a be_v fain_o to_o prefer_v new_a doctor_n before_o old_a and_o to_o confess_v the_o latter_a more_o perspicatious_a and_o to_o differ_v from_o those_o of_o former_a time_n with_o as_o little_a scruple_n as_o he_o will_v from_o calvin_n who_o maldonat_n johan_n 6_o cap._n st._n johan_n on_o purpose_n to_o oppose_v confess_v he_o choose_v a_o new_a interpretation_n before_o that_o of_o all_o the_o ancient_n which_o no_o witness_n but_o my_o eye_n can_v have_v make_v i_o believe_v nay_o and_o produce_v other_o point_n wherein_o their_o church_n have_v decree_v against_o the_o father_n to_o persuade_v she_o to_o do_v so_o again_o although_o campian_n with_o a_o eloquent_a brag_n will_v persuade_v we_o that_o they_o be_v all_o as_o much_o for_o he_o as_o gregory_z the_o thirteen_o who_o be_v then_o pope_n
the_o present_a church_n that_o it_o differ_v not_o from_o the_o former_a though_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o do_v so_o be_v to_o send_v i_o to_o a_o witness_n and_o bid_v i_o not_o believe_v it_o now_o to_o say_v the_o church_n be_v provide_v for_o a_o guide_n of_o faith_n but_o must_v be_v know_v by_o such_o mark_n as_o the_o ignorant_a can_v seek_v it_o by_o and_o the_o learned_a may_v chance_v not_o find_v it_o by_o can_v no_o way_n satisfy_v i_o if_o they_o say_v god_n will_v reveal_v the_o truth_n to_o whosoever_o seek_v it_o these_o way_n sincere_o this_o say_n both_o side_n will_v without_o mean_n of_o be_v confute_v make_v use_n of_o therefore_o it_o will_v be_v as_o good_a that_o neither_o do_v when_o they_o have_v prove_v the_o church_n to_o be_v infallible_a yet_o to_o my_o understanding_n they_o have_v proceed_v nothing_o far_o unless_o we_o can_v be_v sure_a which_o be_v it_o for_o it_o signify_v only_o that_o god_n will_v have_v a_o church_n always_o which_o shall_v not_o err_v but_o not_o that_o such_o or_o such_o a_o succession_n shall_v be_v in_o the_o right_n so_o that_o if_o they_o say_v the_o greek_a church_n be_v not_o the_o church_n because_o by_o its_o own_o confession_n it_o be_v not_o infallible_a i_o answer_v that_o it_o may_v be_v now_o the_o church_n and_o may_v hereafter_o err_v and_o so_o not_o be_v now_o infallible_a and_o yet_o the_o church_n never_o err_v because_o before_o their_o fall_n from_o truth_n other_o may_v arise_v to_o maintain_v it_o who_o then_o will_v be_v the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o church_n may_v still_o be_v infallible_a though_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o any_o set_a person_n who_o we_o may_v know_v at_o all_o time_n for_o our_o guide_n then_o if_o they_o prove_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o not_o the_o greek_a church_n because_o their_o opinion_n be_v consonant_a either_o to_o scripture_n or_o antiquity_n they_o run_v into_o a_o circle_n prove_v their_o tenet_n to_o be_v true_a first_o because_o the_o church_n hold_v they_o and_o then_o they_o to_o be_v the_o church_n because_o the_o church_n hold_v the_o truth_n which_o last_o though_o it_o appear_v to_o i_o the_o only_a way_n yet_o it_o take_v away_o its_o be_v a_o guide_n which_o we_o may_v follow_v without_o examination_n without_o which_o all_o they_o say_v beside_o be_v nothing_o nay_o suppose_v that_o they_o have_v evince_v that_o some_o succession_n be_v infallible_a and_o so_o have_v prove_v to_o a_o learned_a man_n that_o the_o roman_a church_n must_v be_v this_o because_o none_o else_o pretend_v to_o it_o yet_o this_o can_v be_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n to_o the_o ignorant_a who_o can_v have_v any_o infallible_a foundation_n for_o their_o belief_n that_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n pretend_v not_o to_o the_o same_o and_o even_o to_o the_o learned_a it_o be_v but_o a_o accidental_a argument_n because_o if_o any_o other_o company_n have_v likewise_o claim_v to_o be_v infallible_a it_o have_v overthrow_v all_o the_o chief_a reason_n why_o they_o disallow_v of_o scripture_n for_o judge_n be_v because_o when_o difference_n arise_v about_o the_o interpretation_n there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o end_v they_o and_o that_o it_o will_v not_o stand_v with_o the_o goodness_n of_o god_n to_o damn_v man_n for_o not_o follow_v ins_n will_n if_o he_o have_v assigncd_v no_o infallible_a way_n to_o find_v it_o i_o confess_v this_o to_o be_v wonderful_a true_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o let_v they_o excuse_v themselves_o that_o think_v otherwise_o yet_o this_o will_v be_v no_o argument_n against_o he_o that_o believe_v that_o to_o they_o who_o follow_v their_o reason_n in_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o scripture_n god_n will_v either_o give_v his_o grace_n for_o assistance_n to_o find_v the_o truth_n or_o his_o pardon_n if_o they_o miss_v it_o and_o then_o this_o suppose_a necessity_n of_o a_o infallible_a guide_n with_o the_o suppose_a damnation_n for_o want_v of_o it_o fall_v 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