Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	authority_n	church_n	interpretation_n	4,397	5	10.0901	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19150	Epphata to F.T., or, The defence of the Right Reuerend Father in God, the Lord Bishop of Elie, Lord High-Almoner and Priuie Counsellour to the Kings Most Excellent Maiestie concerning his answer to Cardinall Bellarmines apologie, against the slaunderous cauills of a namelesse adioyner, entitling his booke in euery page of it, A discouerie of many fowle absurdities, falsities, lyes, &c. : wherein these things cheifely are discussed, (besides many other incident), 1. The popes false primacie, clayming by Peter, 2. Invocation of saints, with worship of creatures, and faith in them, 3. The supremacie of kings both in temporall and ecclesiasticall matters and causes, ouer all states and persons, &c. within their realmes and dominions / by Dr. Collins ...	Collins, Samuel, 1576-1651.; Bellarmino, Roberto Francesco Romolo, Saint, 1542-1621. Apologia.	1617 (1617)	STC 5561; ESTC S297	540,970	628

we think he might pray to God at one time to the Saints at another Ruffinus shewes what his custome was Proiectis armis ad SOLITA se vertit auxilia prostratus in conspectu Dei Tu inquit Omnipotens Deus nosti quia in nomine CHRISTI filij tui c. 51. Churches to Saints and Sacrifices to Saints in the Popish relligion though they professe against it and so condemne themselues with their owne mouthes for Idolaters Gregorius de Valentia his friuolous excuses of this matter p. 270 52. The Papists bring no Church-decree for their prayer to Saints when they crake of the Church most What the authoritie of the Church is presuming beyond Scripture p. 271. 272 53. The pillar of truth ibid. vpon which place S. Chrysost saies that Truth is the pillar of the Church 54. Epiphanius compares heresie to a shrew To be curbed at first not let haue her will Most true in this matter about praying to Saints The people once attempting it out of a semblance of zeale the contagion multiplies to such an intolerable height as the Papists themselues cannot chuse but rue it p. 273 55. And yet Theodoret is not absolute for praying to Martyrs ibid. largè 56. Parsons scoffing at some Martyrs of our Church of meane occupations But not Theodoret so nor the holy Scripture p. 275 57. Speeding vpon Supplication to Saints and Angells no good argument of the lawfulnes of that practise ibid. 58. The Bishop not to blame about searching this question both by Scripture and Reason which the Adioynder himselfe doth by deceit ill experiments p. 276 59. Prayer to Saints necessarie to saluation and againe not necessarie The Adioynders giddines p. 276 60. Neither relation of Angells nor reuelation from God such as the Adioynder conceiteth are of force to make the Saints alway fit to be praied to ibid. 61. The Scripture is the touch-stone in all controuersies And it it an idle thing to prate of the Church in any such comparison But specially for the triall of matters of this nature p. 277. 278 62. Practise Custome Multitude how to be valued against Scripture p. 280. 1. King 28. Elias to Baals Priests Quia vos plures estis Idem de se ipso 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 secundum 70. Sed Esa 41. 14. Ne time 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cui respondet Luc. 12. 32. 63. The Bishops exposition of S. Austen is defended against the Adioynders iutricate Morosophies p. 281 64. Euery King is SVPREAME HEAD in his Dominions though the Adioynder gnash his teeth at it and that not only to English Protestants but to French Papists p. 282 65. Inuocation of Saints if repelled from Sacrifice repelled from Seruice and so not to be vsed p. 282 66. Slender aduantage of the buriall place after death p. 283 67. More experiments of the Adioynders skill in Latine ibid. 68. Whatsoeuer the burying place aduantage the dead no consequence from thence of praying to Saints out of S. Austens words p. 284 69. No Popish Purgatorie p. 284. 285. 286 70. Lawfull to pray for things alreadie obtained p. 286. Alphons de Castro contra Haeres V. Purgator p. 895. Melius respondemus non semper dubitari de illis quae potuntur c. in eandem sententiam largè where he graunts we may pray for deliuerance from Hell viz. from the iawes of the Lyon and the Tartarean lake although we be perswaded that they are deliuered already whome we pray for 71. Prayer to Saints for the iust price of a newe cloake The Adioynders needy proofes from the practise of a poore Cooke p. 287. CHAP. 8. 72. THe Councell of Laodicea is against praying to Angells Accurseth them that vse it Brandeth them as for sakers of the L. Christ And all this by Theodorets construction of it in his Comm. vpon the Epistle to the Colossians In which Colossians S. Paul first reprooued that vice and it remained there till the time of the Councell of Laodicea saith Theodoret which was held not farre from the Citie Colossi p. 289. 290. 291. 73. S. Chrysostomes notable enforcing of the Apostles text for praying to God onely and neither to Saints nor Angels whome he excludes directly p. 292 293 294 74. The Angel is Christ So Bellarm. himselfe de Mal. 3. lib. 5. c. 1. de Christo Mediatore Other Angels reuerence godly men so farre they are from receiuing worshippe of them And this by Gregorie and their owne writers testimonie p. 295 75. The good offices and attendance that Angels performe to vs by Gods appointment prooue not that wee may pray to them but to God that sends them and sets them on worke p. 296 76. Of euery mans particular Angell Chrysost apud Melissam lib. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 facit malos mortales non habere custodem Angelum nisi tenebrarū quòd quidam angeli natales 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 à nobis nosve ab illis Molina's smart deuise that seuerall brotherhoods of Fryers haue seuerall Angels forsooth to attend them c. ibid. 77. Haeresie a shrew by Epiphanius description of her To be yoakt at first and not let haue her will She will haue the last word whatsoeuer come of it ibid. 78. Angels not our gouernours specially in the new Testament Themselues ministring spirits to S. Paul Therefore not our Masters p. ead 297 79. The Adioynders wriglings to shift off the Canon of the Councell of Laodicea but all in vaine ibid. 298 80. Worship of Angels more directly condemned by the Auncient Fathers then of the Saints The cause why Yet that falling this cannot stand euen à maiori ibid. 81. Theodoret violates not the Canon of Laodicea nor his own doctrine deliuered in his Commentaries Hee prayes not to Saints And yet if he did his rule were to bee aboue his practise p. 298 82. The Adioynder cauills the Bishop for oppugning their praying to Saints by Reasons yet himselfe brings most pitifull ones why we should doe so p. 288. 289 83. The Adioynder so impious as if the Saints cannot heare vs to question how Christ himselfe can in his manhood Esa 59. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Adioynder saith Yea. ibid. 84. Vnlike comparisons vsed by the Adioynder p. 300 85. The Angels discerne not the secrets of hearts ibid. 86. The Adioynders examples slow to prooue his intents His authorities rather more quoting that for Athanasius which quotes Athanasius quaest 23. And yet against himselfe Cordium cognitor solus est Deus Nec enim vel Angeli cordis abscondita videre possunt quaest 27. ad Antiochum p. 301 87. Martyrs pray onely for the Church in generall p. 302 88. S. Gregories speculum and how the Saints see all things in God p. 303 89. The Angels are not said to offer our prayers to God ibid. 304. 90. The Rhemists make one Angell to mediate for another and one heauenly Saint for another because else they cannot construe that in

vpon vs in your num 27. and num 29. with an ouer-plus of valour that the Fathers alleadged doe not onely teach in expresse words that S. Peter did not loose his Apostleship by his fall but doe withall acknowledge a certaine increase thereof and preheminent authoritie ouer the rest of the Apostles what increase could there be if he was made their Head and gouernour before and not onely theirs but the whole worlds Was it so that more notice was taken thereof For I see not what actuall exaltation could accrew Therefore you doe well to expound your selfe by saying that he was made more eminent then before Yet if you will goe thus farre Arnobius would teach you to maintaine that which you call increase in a more literall sense For that which before was promised Peter was now giuen and exhibited and so plus redditum quàm sublatum as Arnobius speakes Yet no more to Peter then to all the rest as Matth. 28. 19. and Ioh. 20. 23. To all as much as to Peter was giuen Saue onely as the Bishop excellently distinguishes the res or the substance to all the solemnitie to Peter with demand of loue and triple acknowledgement Ioh. 21. 15. As for the place out of Matthew if you compare the coherence you shall see if our Sauiour made any Pope he made more then one without all question For who is the Pope but he to whome the power of Christ is communicated Now he saies thus All power is giuen me both in heauen and in earth And what then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Goe YOV therefore and teach not Goe THOV therefore This power therefore of Christ is communicated to them all by vertue of this therefore as much as he thought good to communicate it at all Either many Popes then that you must giue vs or we you none This by the way That Cyrill of Ierusalem calls Peter princeps Apostolorum excellontissimus I haue answered you before to the word princeps in Cyrill of Alexandria a man of more authoritie then he of Ierusalem as one Sea exceedes the t'other who writ what hee writ when he was yong saies S. Hierome But the Greeke is otherwise then you quote First 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is the most verticall Therefore many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 many vertices that is either heads or crownes of heads more eminent thē heads What if Peter among these excelled Euen the Sunne is sometime more verticall then another yet he acquires no authoritie among the starres though more opportunitie to worke vpon our bodies So Peter to edifie with the rest that excelled But if you stand vpon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil saies of Athanasius Wee runne to thee or to thy persection so he styles him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as to the vertex of the whole world And Cyrill of Alexandria will tell you that secular Princes are the heights of the earth and so the Scripture Mich. 1. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whom God treads vpon not your Pope Againe Amos 4. Calcans altitudines God treads vpon the altitudes of the earth that is Kings by Cyrills interpretation What is Peters altitude to this altitude 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 another word that S. Cyrill vses whome you alleadge is no more then was giuen to S. Paul in the Acts and that by vnpartiall iudges of primacie I meane such as went by meere obseruation to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as they call him or the prime man of the sect of the Nazarites that is of the Christian Church not onely of the twelue To the place of Opratus Solus accepit claues caeteris communicandas Onely Peter receiued the Keyes to be imparted to others What more to our purpose what lesse to yours Does not this confirme all that we haue said before and ouerthrow you Onely Peter tooke them as an instance of vnitie as a pledge of the body as you haue often heard out of S. Austen before but neither in his owne name nor to be kept by him or swaied by him but communicandas caeteris to be imparted to the rest and made common to all Eucherius wittily Peter receiued the keyes but Paul was rapt to the third heauen How could that be if he had not the keyes And Clemens in Eusebius before quoted lib. 2. cap. 1. saies generally of the three that they cōmunicated it to others what they had heard of Christ These were Peter Iames and Iohn But that was doctrine that Clemens spake of yet the like no doubt holds in the Keyes after a sort at least de possibili without any disparagement to the communitie of the Apostles § 51. Chrysostomes authoritie mooues lesse then any other who in his Commentaries vpon S. Iohn at that very place where of all the strife is viz. Pasce oues meas saies that Iohn as well as Peter receiued the gouernment of the whole world from Christ which is enough to ouerthrow Peters monarchie euen when Chrysoft shall say that he was made gouernour of the whole world by pasce oues meas For how can that now be speciall to Peter I could affoard you better places out of Chrysostome my selfe as that Christ gaue power to Peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to carry all afore him This no doubt would serue the Popes turne right finely to tosse the ball whither he list to raigne and to ruffle in the Church at his pleasure But is any so madde as to thinke that Chrysostome meant any such thing And yet suppose he did he saies the same of Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Epist ad Coloss id est cap. 4. v. 9. adding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euen as Paul thought good For that you bring out of his 2. booke de Sacerdot you should haue specified the chapter and we would haue closed with you better In the Greeke I finde nothing but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of which before out of S. Cyrill in the very superlatiue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But in the same chap. he saies which is the first of that booke that Christ committed his flocke by Pasce oues meas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Peter and them after him And least you thinke he meanes onely the Popes he applies it to himselfe not yet so much as Bishop but onely called to single priesthood that he should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suppose you like a Peter i. be set ouer all the substance of Gods house And farther he saies he is to doe those things which Peter if he did should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. goe beyond the rest of the Apostles Doe you see then how all the prerogatiue of Peter is built vpon his practise and good desert not absolutely cleauing to him and his Nay no more saies Chrysost then extends to euery good Pastor I might contemne your Latine now to which nothing is answerable in the Greeke Yet suppose it were so as you

a metaphore saying he would build vpon him § 18. The like ad Marcellam Epist 54. vpon whome our Lord built his Church namely Peter But can we answer S. Hierome better then by S. Hierome The fortitude of the Church or the puissance of the Church was equally built or grounded vpon them all Super omnes ex aequo You heard it before out of his 1. lib. against Iouinian How does this then prooue Peters priuiledge in the matter of authoritie though building were graunted to found that way as it doth not And when S. Paul sundrie times as Coloss 1. 23. and Eph. 2. 20. speakes of grounding and building the Church either vpon faith as in the first place or vpon the Prophets and Apostles as in the second shall we thinke he was enuious that said nothing of Peter and that extraordinarie manner of the Churches building vpon him that you dreame of § 19. Here you tell vs of three waies by which the Apostles might be saide to be foundations of the Church in hope that Peter may be so in singular And quoting Bellarmine for it not your owne inuention you counsell the Bishop to learne it of him Shall wee first see how good it is One way for that they first conuerted nations perswaded people and founded Churches not Peter alone but ioyntly all of them In this sense belike they are all foundations But what is this to beeing the foundation of the Catholicke Church and to lie like a rocke vnder that great building because they were planters of particular Churches Also you argue fallaciously from the diligence of preaching to the power of supporting and that by authoritie as now the question is Besides a founder and a foundation is not all one And did none plant Churches good Sir but the Apostles Shall your Iesuites in Iaponia be foundations too And shall we say of them super quos aedificaeta est Ecclesia dei You see the absurditie Yet you quote proofes Rom. 15. I haue preached the Gospell where Christ was not named least I should build vpon another mans foundation Does this prooue that men are foundations of the Church or rather that the man and the foundation are two Againe 1. Cor. 3. I haue laid the foundation like a wise architect so speakes your Vitruvius-ship but would you call him a wise Logician that should argue from hence that S. Paul meant himselfe to be the foundation Yea though he said not in the same place Iesus Christ and no other foundation § 20. Secondly you say the Apostles were all foundations because the Christian doctrine was first imparted to them and the present faith is groūded vpon that which was deliuered at the first And new articles of faith you say are not alway reuealed Is not this accurate trow you as well for order as for substance For had this been a reason ought it not to haue been set in all reason before the other Can a thing bee preached afore it be vnderstood or made knowne to others afore it selfe be knowne Your argument therefore from preaching should by all meanes I say haue followed this from reuealing and this from reuealing haue gone before the other But pardon your order looke into your substance Were not some things reuealed to others afore the Apostles Did not our Lord first manifest his resurrection to women Did not the Angel say to them Goe and tell Peter Will you haue women and all to be the foundations of the Church But we are much beholden to you that you coyne not newe articles of faith euerie day Articles therefore and new articles you graunt and of frequent reuelation but not euery day We long for your last kinde of foundation wherein Peter is so entire § 21. Thirdly then you say in respect of gouernement and authoritie For Peters was ordinarie their 's Legatine his originall theirs depending from him You should shewe what Father sayes so besides your selues for of Scripture you despaire And yet you agree so ill emong your owne selues of this point that you iumpe not about the very termes For Baronius cals Peters power extraordinarie the other Apostles ordinarie you make his ordinary and theirs extraordinary Is it possible that kingdome should long hold out which is so at ods Yet behold another leake in this obseruation For though the Apostles had deriued their authoritie from Peter yet they might all haue beene foundations of the Church as well as he euen in regard of gouernment no lesse then some receiuing the doctrine immediatly from Christ as Peter Iames and Iohn witnes Clemens in Eusebius before quoted the others from them yet you make them all in regard of doctrine to be foundations alike num 25. § 22. Another authoritie of S. Hieromes is out of his Epist ad Damas 57. I following no first or chiefe but Christ doe communicate with thy blessednes or am linked in fellowship with it that is to say with the chayre of Peter vpon that rocke I know the Church is built You see Hierome followes no first but Christ Nullum primum Where is then the primacie that you challenge to Peter if none of the Apostles be afore another but Christ Indeede Bellarmine saies he meanes he preferres none but Christ before Damasus which is an vtter peruerting of S. Hieromes words who as he saies he followes no chiefe but Christ or none prime but Christ so he shewes after what sort he is affected to Damasus communione not subiectione by communion not by subiection communico tibi as to Theophilus to Cyrill to Athanasius to who not the auncient orthodoxe professe of themselues in diuers places But the edge of the place as it serues your turne lies in those words I know the Church is built vpon that rocke Which rocke is Christ not so long before mentioned but this may referre to it and to build vpon a chayre is no such cleane pickt metaphore that we should be forced to take it so though vpon a rocke be Besides the scio that he giues it a word of certentie makes vs thinke he would neuer be so peremptorie for Peter sith diuers haue construed the rocke another way whome S. Hierome would not crosse ouer hastily with his Solo and lastly his owne modestie declared a little before professing to follow none but Christ Therefore he tooke Peter for no such foundation § 23. The last and the least is out of his first against Iovinian O vox digna petrâ Christi â speech worthie the rocke of Christ But you may as well build Christ himselfe by this deuise vpon Peter as the Church of Christ For as Saunders writes of the rock of the Church so Hierome calls Peter here the rocke of Christ That is the fortresse and champion of the Christian faith as S. Ambrose was called columna Ecclesiae S. Iames 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is the title of the Church of Ephesus wherein Timothie was to conuerse rather then of Rome as the

your worthy predecessor or if you will progenitor into your world of Anticks scoffs at shoomakers and beere-brewers and such kind of people that they should be thought Martyrs fit for a Calender or able to discern what faith they died for You heare what Theodoret here not onely confesses but vaunts of Of such men and women consists the Quire of Martyrs And what saies the Apostle Non multi nobiles c. Or what kind of trade is contemned in Scripture towards the advancing of Christs Gospel fishing tanning weauing tent-making and such like Ecclesia Christi de vili plebecula congregata est sayes S. Hierome lib. 3. Comm. in Epist ad Gal. And Onesimus the fugitiue Baronius writ it if I remember succeeded the Apostle S. Iohn in his Bishopricke of Ephesus But Parsons hath answered this by this time and many other matters I vrge him no farther § 24. Onely take you heede how you beleeue the Saints as here you seeme to doe to vnderstand the praiers that are made vnto them because now and then the desire is graunted Consider yee not what collusions may be among deuills And Audit ad voluntatem cùm non ad salutem euen God himselfe as S. Austen teaches which your Syluester with others obserue out of him v. Oratio He heares vs to our will when not to our weale Conceditque iratus quae negaret propitius saith the same father And grants in anger what he would deny in loue Neither is the deuill the better loued for speeding in his suite to goe into the swine you may be sure Yet the deuill begd rightly you worse then he at a wrong dore Neither is the Bishop to bee blamed for searching this question of Inuocation by reasons as S. Hierome saies of Quadratus that he wrote a booke in defence of our relligiō plenum fidei rationis since you confesse your selfe that it is persuadeable but by inducements namely what others haue obserued found and experienced and is not necessary to saluation numb 29. Why then should you shunne the tryall of reason To omit that as S. Austen and your Schoole hath it In faith are many things aboue reason but none against it § 25. The reuelation of vicissitude or per interualla that Saints may haue as Elizeus of Naaman and Gehezi and the like is not enough to auouch praying to them It must be permanentiae it must be spiritus manens non transiens Else we may pray to them when they heare vs not and when nothing is reuealed This man hath prayed to me and I was not aware or Dominus abscondidit à me as the Prophet said So shall we be sure that they doe not euer heare vs but whether they doe euer heare vs or no we shall not be sure Can there be any thing more disparageable to a poore suiter then this This to your numb 46. § 26. Whereas you say in the 47. that they know our prayers by the relation of Angels First how shall the Angels know them to relate By reuelation from God you will say But he that reueales to the Angels might reueale to the Saints eâdem operâ What needs this reuelation then Sic fieri per plura quod potuit per pauciora Secondly who makes that the Angels worke to be offerers of our prayers to the Saints in heauen Is this worthy of them Is this a fit worke to imploy Angels about Why not rather to my selfe saies the Angel And surely if this be once entertained that the Angels acquaint the Saints with our prayers which else they should not know but for them will not the Pagan opinion which S. Ambrose hissed out and you with him euen now returne that God also should be ignorant of our affaires vnlesse the Angels reuealed them For you make the Angels to offer our prayers to God too A iust reward of your peruerting so the Apocalyps c. 5. v. 8. § 27. To your 48. 49. c. Numbers That Church-custome determines diuerse things without Scripture I answer breifly they must be things of a lighter nature then the substantialls of Gods seruice as is our prayer to him or whomsoeuer you will thrust into his roome No praescription can robbe him of his honour Homines nihil vsu capere possunt à dijs immortalibus And againe among the same Laws as I rememember Aduersus hostem aeternae authoritas but maximè Dei Diuina sibi vendicantem Your owne Genebrard vpon that verse of the 119. Psal LEGEM tuam dilexi INIQVOS odio habui that is haereticos saith he or such as departing from the lawe of God either fall into heresie or are not farre from it So much it concernes vs to sticke close to the Law 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as S. Basil wills and in another place he makes a Law to himselfe to endure all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all formes of death rather then to forfeit one syllable of diuine writ beeing tempted to dispense at the small things of Gods Law as was pretended at least by the wily Courtier with no small offers The very place of Esay that sends vs ad legem ad testimonium barres vs from looking towards the departed though they be Saints It were endles to reckon vp all the fathers authorities in detestation of such traditions as accrue besides the word of God and how they reduce all controuersies of this nature to no other touch-stone then the holy Scriptures decision Out of THESE BOOKES saith Constantine let vs try the Question meaning the Bibles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let the Scripture be Vmpire saith Basil ad Eustathium S. Chrysostome Tom. 4. edit Eton per D. H. Savile 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The doctrine of holy Scriptures is the inheritance of our Fathers Euen as we say that the Common Law is euery mans inheritance because it tries titles by that we hold Dionysius therfore most properly cals it substantiam fidei the substance or liuelihood of our faith suppose that by which it is fedde as you would say and nourished and maintained Likewise Thy testimonies haue I claimed as mine HERITAGE for euer saies the Prophet Dauid in the Psalme before named So as the King you see consists by the tillage of this field and they are his for euer euen as in the nature of an inheritance as was before said Apollinaris in Eusebius l. 5. c. 1. Bishop of Hierapolis writing to a friend of his Avircius Marcellus about the heresie of the Cataphrygians alleadges this as a cause of his slow setting forward to write euen against those heretiques ne quicquam apponere viderer Euangelico verbo noui testamenti least writing so much as one line after the Canon of holy Scripture he might seem to haue a mind to adde to her most compleat sufficiencie S. Gregorie also the great lib. 1. Epist 24. ad quatuer Patriarchas saith that as the Priest in old times

manner of way viz. by sacrifice or as if in sacrifices themselues some rites were not arbitrary as he instances himselfe about feasts and holy daies in his numb 26. so the substance be vncorrupted or as if other things being precisely ordered by Gods mouth this were not a generall recapitulation of all the rest as too long to be repeated in particular that nothing in Gods worship must be done besides his word I meane for the substantialls And Quod de vno dico de omnibus intelligite as our Sauiour to his Disciples what I say to you I say to all So what of one that of all The Scripture is full of the like caueats euery where against your patchings to the word Turne neither to the right hand nor to the left hand Which Bellarmine saith is all one with the former To the Law and the Testimonie Esay 8. 20. Gods workes are perfect adde not to them nor detract not from them no more then from Lysias his Orations nay much lesse where one syllable being peruerted all the whole frame falls to ground His law is the truth yea and the whole truth Whatsoeuer is without that is but meere fables Iniqui narrauerunt mihi fabulas The vngodly told me fables but not according to thy Law Therefore fables because not according to thy Law And a hundreth such like which no doubt bind vs to a precise adherence to Gods will and sure reuealed in his word euen vs I say of the new Testament not onely them of the old see Apocal. 22. 18. yet for this the Bishop is a Iew with this gentleman a reuiuer of Moses ordinances and I know not what § 22. Though more particularly I might reply to his fond exception vnto the place aforenamed out of Deuter. 12. which he saith was only a rule for sacrifice that the same precept was giuen afore euen Deut. 4. and without any mention of sacrifices sometimes applyed to all the commandements ver 2. againe ver 5. againe ver 8. particularly against idolatry ver 15. to which this of praying to Saints is thought to be reducible Therefore Bellarmine answers that place another way lib. 4. De verbo Dei cap. 10. Not that we must doe no more then is commanded vs but in a thing commaunded no more for substance then the commaundement importeth Which is enough for vs as I haue often said that God therefore is not to be prayed vnto by the mediation of Saints vnles he had commaunded it because that is not so much an appertinence or a bare forme as a wrong seruice a substance by it selfe § 23. Absurdly in his 26. number is the multiplication of certaine festiualls in which no new worship of God was erected compared with the setting vp of tutelary Saints now a daies and praying to them that of Ieremie beeing verified of the Popish Church Numerus divorum secundum numerum civitatum yea capitum The number of their Saints is after the number of their cities yea verily their persons § 24. A new deuice in the 28. number that though it were true as the Bishop affirmeth that we may not depart one inch from Gods prescript and will yet the will of God reacheth further then his written word Let him shew that this holds concerning the substance of Gods seruice we contend not with him for minutiae for such accidents as may adesse and abesse saith Porphyrie without corruption of the maine To place a Saint in Gods throne to addresse our worship to him to poure out our heart and conscience into his lap to submit vnto him by prayer and deuotion is no such pettie thing whatsoeuer hee imagines but toucheth the foundations Where this is offered strange fire is offred vnles God authorize it § 25. To the place of Chrysostome vpon that text of the Apostle Tenete traditiones 2. Thess 2. eâdem fide digna sunt tam illa quàm ista No doubt whatsoeuer the Apostles deliuered either by word or writing and they might deliuer by word what they did not by writing as long as they were points of meaner nature especially some of them that wrote nothing at all I say whatsoeuer the Apostles deliuered no doubt but all deserued credit and credit alike ratione annuntiantium in regard of their persons which were farre from lying but not as to force vs to the like obligation of beleeuing and crediting them in the way of saluation or to eternall life And doe ye thinke we could muster no authorities of Fathers if the time would permit or we were so disposed to shew that all is contained in Scripture which we are either to practise or beleeue as by necessitie of commandement and how that entring into that Sanctuarie the Sanctuarie of Scripture and reuelation from aboue we may be instructed and certified about any points sufficiently As Rebecca to the Oracle when there was strife in her wombe so we in controuersies The Scriptures are called Oracles Rom. 3. I am wiser then my teachers saith he but how by studying thy Law 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are able to make thee wise and wise to saluation spoken of Scripture againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the man of God may be perfect in all things Perfect without traditions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I deliuered what I receiued S. Paul goes no farther 1. Cor. 15. And there a point recorded and written in Scripture as the doctrine of the Lords Supper is comprehended vnder 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and made a Tradition All Traditions therefore you see are not vnwritten but the tradition is to be spurned at that descendeth not from Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Athanasius one for many Oratione contra Gentes about the very beginning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To the declaration of truth vnlesse your Traditions be not of truth the guise of some is to delight in lies a iust reward for abhorring Scripture the rule of truth 2. Thess 2. to the declaration of truth saith Athanasius the holy Scriptures are sufficient and compleat And are the Scriptures so sufficient to beat downe Ethniques whome Athanasius there writes against and who care not for Scripture as is commonly seene and yet shall they not be sufficient to compound controuersies arising in the Church betweene Christian and Christian § 26. Theophylact makes them to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 10. Iohan. The Scriptures saith he giue resolution of all points Tertullian most excellently Apologetice contra Gentes Quò pleniùs impressiùs dispositiones eius voluntates adiremus instrumentum adiecit literaturae si quid velit de Deo inquirere inquisitum inuenire inuentum credere credito deseruire Search truth faith seruice all comes of Scripture And to the ende we might conferre with God more fully and more effectually or piercingly knowe his courses know his will instrumentum adiecit literaturae he hath giuen it vs in writing in

hath done nothing in his Apologie in doing no more then so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he had as good made no Apologie at all By the way it is pretty and worth the noting how you report the Bishops words Rex expectat in quadringentis annis c. though de quadringentis would haue fitted you better which you quote in the margent as the Bishops owne words and like enough to be so not in quadringentis But this is your Latine when you list to speake like your selfe and reforme Bishops for theirs If it be true as you say that the Fathers of the three first hundred yeares after Christ are so few and so scantie remaining to our daies you reckon but 7. or 8. though I suppose there are diuers more yet what ill luck haue you with them that can finde no footing of all your new-fangled superstition in any of their workes Not in Tertullian not in Origen not in Irena Ignace Lactance Melito Cyprian Iustine Clemens Arnobius Methodius Minutius the Cyrills Dionysius Athenagoras Theophilus c. not in Eusebius himselfe who liued there anewst and enclined to the Platonicks as did some others of the forenamed ranke Which Platonicks are thought to be somewhat fauourable to your fancie of worshipping Saints aboue the rest of the Philosophers And if the Fathers as you say write so few in an age does not this shew that the square of our faith is the Scripture not the Fathers for how if the Fathers had wrote nothing at all As of diuerse points you confesse your selfe they did not Num. 63. and Num. 66. And in the beginning of this Chapter you would make vs beleeue that the Apostles themselues had no commaundement for writing Might not the Fathers pennes much more haue stood still Yet you adde that the after-ages abounded with writers when persecution ceased and many worthy Volumes were spread abroad into the world It may well bee but as heresie is confounded many times by writing so some errours will creepe in withall and hardly can it be eschewed Abundabit scientia but abundabit iniquitas too Daniel the one our Sauiour Christ the other each of the same times of the world of the Church The Elephant oppresseth Eleazar in the fall So falshood gets some ground of truth euen in seeming to be foyled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was our Sauiours depositum which he left to the Church witnesse he in the Nicene Councell Apud Socr. lib. 1. cap. 8. not ventilation not disputation Wherein I may boldly say that truth of relligion comes in as much hazard to bee lost as our Sauiour was in the crowde and concourse at Ierusalem As in the ouerflowes of Nilus the corne feilds are the better and the fatter for it but serpents and Crocodyles come in amaine so whiles many pennes walke the originall puritie is lesse preserued It will be alwayes true which Tully saith Quò propiùs aberant à diuina progenie c. so from the Primitiue times eò acutiùs cautiùsque vena videbant recta tenebant which posteritie fayled in § 45. When you aske if we would not receiue the signe of the Crosse as proceeding from antiquitie vnles all the Fathers had stood for it why should we hold you long in suspence It is the vniforme consent of the godly Fathers that endeares the vse of that memorial to vs and had onely certaine singulars like starres in a darke night deliuered their opinion of it it should neuer haue found such entertainment at our hands for the antiquities sake And therefore you must muster a squadron of Fathers though I see it be troublesome vnto you for prayer to Saints not come in with your snatches and your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here and there if you will carrie it by the Fathers Where it may please you to remember that in the Conference at Hampton Court which you quoted so lately the Bishop that you now write against brought Tertullian for the Crosse and the vse therof in baptisme in immortali lauacro you haue neither author for Inuocation of Saints so auncient nor piece of an author Yet you compare this with the signe of the crosse How vnfitly § 46. The Bishops you say are giuen to teach the Church if they may erre therein the Church may be deceiued and so all is marred As if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Austen doth not tell you of erring Bishops of deceiuing Bishops which the people fondly relyed vpon he in vaine recalling them and denouncing that the Bishops authority is no sanctuary to the erroneous See lib. de pastor cap. 10. Saepe hoc dicunt heretici securi sequimur Episcopos The heretikes haue this often in their mouthes 〈◊〉 are safe so long as we follow our Bishops It is a signe of heresie with S. Austen to follow the Bishops and their iudgement securely viz. without looking any further And in the 7. Chapter of the said booke hee applyes that to the Bishops of his time out of Ezek. 34. Quod errabat non reuocastis the wandring sheepe ye haue not called backe What remedy are the Bishops now against error And Si Episcopus constitutus in ecclesia catholica non bonam rationem reddit de oue quam non quaesierit errantem de grege Dei qualem rationem redditurus est haereticus viz. Episcopus qui non solùm non reuocauit ab errore sed etiam impulit in errorem Doe you see that Bishops doe not onely not bring from errour but lead into error yea thrust impell cap. 10. of the aforesaid And yet you thinke the onely antidote of Church errors lyes in the Bishops How much better S. Peter Habemus firmiorem sermonem propheticum We haue a surer testimony namely the holy Scripture not onely then the authority of any Bishops can be to preserue from error but then a voyce from heauen for of that speaks S. Peter which Satan may counterfeit and so likewise fayne himselfe a Bishop as well as change himselfe into an Angel of light Therefore S. Hilary saies that Christ would not let his Disciples beare witnes of him and yet no meane persons because he was to be approoued by other manner of witnesses namely the Law and the Prophets that is the Scriptures And S. Chrysostome Hom. 9. in cap. 3. ad Coloss Exhorting the lay-men to prouide them bookes the medicines of their soules as he calls them bids them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to tarrie for another Master not the Prelate himselfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for he hides many things many times from them for enuie or for vain-glory Whereas the Scripture layes all open sincerely Is this a small prerogatiue of Scriptures aboue the Doctors S. Austen also cap. 11. of the booke aforequoted after he had lodg'd his sheepe like a good pastor in the mountaines of Israel that is as he interprets it in the authority of the diuine Scriptures he thus bespeakes them Ibi pascite vt securè

pascatis Quicquid inde audieritis hoc vobis bene sapiat quicquid extra est respuite And againe Audite vocem pastoris colligite vos ad montes Scripturae sanctae No doubt these are the mountaines that our Sauiour bids vs flie vnto vnder Antichrists persecution that is yours Ibi sunt deliciae cordis vestri addes S. Austen ibi nihil venenosum nihil alienum And lastly when he hath shut them into that sheepcoat and pend them vp in that fold for he vrgeth the word Erunt stabula earum illic he giues them leaue to triumph and say in this wise Bene est verum est manifestum est non fallimur This he calls requiescere in stabulis illic to rely vpon Scripture not vpon the Bishops authoritie Now it is well with vs now we are right now the case is plaine now we are not deceiued when the Scripture first saies it What should I tell you here either of Cyprians licensing the people of God the flocke of Christ to renounce their wicked Bishop not partake with his seruices lib. 1. Ep. 4. or of the third Canon of that famous Councell of Ephesus which enioynes thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Councell giues charge Not to submit to the authoritie of any backe-slided Bishops or Bishops departed that is departed from the truth There may bee Apostaticall Bishops then departers from the truth had you no such Popes aske Lyra aske Genebrard and they are not to be regarded And euen in those which deserue not to be called Apostatae by so heauie name because they fell not so fowly simpliciter errantes as S. Austen calls them de Bap. l. 4. c. 5. yet their lighter errors their moales as I may terme them like that in Cyprians owne breast which S. Austen saith was couered with the dugges of his charitie they make no authoritie for others to follow them least Vincentius Lerinensis pronounce his doome vpon them thus though wondring at it himselfe O mira conuersio absoluuntur Magistri condemnantur discipuli O strange passe The thiefe scapes and the receiuer is hangd the inuentor goes away scotfree and the scholler perisheth in his prone credulity Which you may doe well to take heed of in the present question of praying to Saints if any passion from a multitude or a single Christian hath drawne forth a vowe a prayer or such like if any suddaine motion hath transported further then should yet to beware how you make an article of it § 47. As for that you say the Fathers whome you quote about this point were agents in the Councells which the King and the Bishop professe to reuerenee it is one thing what the Fathers say in seuerall as it were solitarij in tecto another when they meet Synodically in a Councell Is there no grace belonging to Councells Why is it not said then vbi vnus but vbi duo aut tres in nomine meo naming the first multitudes to shew the vertue of an assembly where farre more meet then two or three You haue first no Councells for your supplication to Saints for miserable are your proofes of Flauianus and Proterius they haue toucht the Diamond but they cannot draw like the Diamond they are of kin to the Councell but they are not brought within the Canon Neither againe haue you all the Fathers no not of one whole age among the fiue no not of the later and weaker in authority neerer the bottom and those that you haue they write dispersedly neuer so much as ioyned in domesticall conference which is a great derogation in regard of the credit that goes with lawfull Synods although lesse generall And lastly though you neuer lyn vaunting and prating what you haue produced out of the Fathers as if it were so peremptory yet wee hauing examined and perused them before finde not one of them to depose so pregnantly on your side but that he may be avoided If the streame of the Fathers not onely of one age as you idly crake but sundry ages together could preuaile any thing with you you would neuer haue defined so proudly and so irreligiously of the conception of the Blessed Virgin without sinne of which see Canus your owne author with his legion of Fathers nor giuen sentence against the Dominican for the Franciscan As for the place to the Ephes which you quote to shew that God hath placed Pastors in the Church to defend it from errour Dedit quosdam pastores c. Eph. 4. It is by way of industrie in dispensing Gods word not of infallibilitie that they cannot possibly erre Where vision ceases though the Pastors be neuer so many yet the people perish yea many Pastors are the cause saith God why my vine is destroyed I made indeede my Couenant with Levi and the Priests lips should preserue knowledge Mal. 2. but the Priests oft times depart out of the way and they cause many to stūble in the Law IN THE LAVV saith God by misinterpreting it no doubt they haue corrupted the Couenant of Levi saith the Lord of hoasts This in the old Testamēt In the new what If the salt be vnsauoury to the dunghil with it saith our blessed Sauiour of his times Out of you shall come fierce wolues saies S. Paul Act. 20. speaking of thē soone after that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Bishops and Priests as S. Chrysost construes it Tom. 7. D. H. Savile p. 219. There shall be false teachers among you as well as in that people saies Peter whome you build vpon 1. Pet. 2. 1. And he addes moreouer bringing in priuily damnable heresies This of yours is priuie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 take heede it be not damnable I haue acquitted the Fathers in my former speech I applie this to you § 48 But S. Austen you say thought the testimonie of sixe Bishops sufficient to conuince Iulian the Pelagian about originall sinne and the baptisme of young infants He meanes sufficient to tame Iulians pride and haughtie humor after he had laid him on his backe with Scripture-arguments which is not all one with deciding the question by the Fathers authoritie Iulian had called Originall sinne Manichaismum S. Austen alleadges those Fathers for it that were knowne to be no Manichees It●●e tibi fili Iuliane nos omnes Manichai esse videmur l. 1. c. 4. not 2. as you quote it So is it one thing ad hominem and another adrem disputare As likewise it is one thing vincere and another thing triumphare as that memorable Dr. Whitakers was wont to say in this case The Fathers and all come in at the triumph like those that waited on our Sauiour into Hierusalem but it is the Scripture that strikes the stroke Neither doth S. Austen mislike that saying of Iulian l. 1. c. 7. that Scripturarum authoritas goes before eruditio Sanctorum In the establishing of a truth the authoritie of Scripture goes before the learning

of holy men Qui tamen sancti non authoritatem veritati suo tribuêre consensu sed testimonium gloriam de ei●… suscepere consortio Which Saints neuertheles or godly men authorize not the truth by their concurring in one but winne praise and estimation by their generall submitting of their iudgements thereunto Or is not originall sinne to be prooued by Scripture without a Iurie of Fathers thinke you As for the baptisme of infants I haue spoken before And Iulian himselfe was baptized in his infancie as S. Austen tells him l. 1. c. 4. What compasse will hold the authorities of Scripture that proclaime our infection from the very wombe Iob saith the infant of one night is not cleane c. Nay he would neuer haue cursed the day of his birth c. 3. but that he was borne in sinne For nothing can subiect a man to the curse but sinne The Psalme saith Behold I was shapen in iniquitie and made warme in my mothers sinnes Againe The vngodly are froward from the wombe And The iniquitie of my heeles that 's the originall sinne which sticketh so fast encounters him still euen-after regeneration For the serpene wounds vs in the heele the womans seede him in the head Illusiones lumborum and Ab occultis meis munda me is thought to be the same Moses saith euery figmentum of the heart of man is onely euill continually What was Esaies vncleannes of his lipps Esa 6. but this Originall pollution that he had not discarded from him For we must not thinke that the Prophet was ribauld in his talke or that-waies obnoxious as a filthie speaker God forbid And infinite the like throughout all the old Testament Besides diuers other proofes out of Salomons Proverbs he would neuer haue said that the day of death is better then the day of birth but that we are borne in sinne and neuer set free from this graue iugum of the sonnes of Adam as another calls it till our very death It is primum vivens vltimum moriens But my purpose was not to recken vp places of Scripture for confirmation of Originall sinne though you see how farre your prouocation carrieth me that say that this could not be prooued against young Iulian but by the Fathers If I should speake of the new Testament what ende would there be I will name but one place omitting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eph. 4. and Eramus quondam Tit. 3. and many the like namely that which S. Aust choaks the gallant with after he had ruffled in his rhetorike and so sprusely vrged him to shew but a crannie or a little hole by which this originall sinne hath crept into the world Ostendo tibi saith S. Austen non angustam rimam sed latissimam ianuam IN QVO OMNES PECCAVERVNT Rom. 5. Looke you Sir saith S. Aust not a litle hole but a broad gate that I shew you or rather the Apostle sheweth you by which sin entred into the world viz. the first man in whose fall we were bruised as the Platonikes are wont to say of the wing of the soule and they alluding perhappes hether So notorious is the originall corruption of mankinde that sense gropes it and nature feeles it and the world complaines of it that though the Scriptures did not testifie it the Fathers need not be cited where the Platoniks proclaime it As for S. Austens iudgement of Councells where the lis is dependens and Scripture hath been produced as yet on neither side that one saying of his is sufficient to shew the insufficiencie of them which is extant in his booke against Maximinus the Arrian l. 3. c. 14. Nec ego tibi Nicenum nec tu mihi Ariminense debes concilium obijcere He remits his aduersary the Nicene Councell rather then he will stand to any tryall but Scriptures about a point of faith In which Nicene there were more then sixe Fathers which you talke of here no lesse then 318. if you remember § 49. And is not that goodly proofe now for inuocation of Saints that it hath been beneficiall to the world and graced with miracles c As if it were for nothing that the spirit saith Si surrexerit in medio tui propheta yea and etiamsi euenerit secundum verbum eius although it come to passe according to his word For God doth all this to try vs. A shipman is seen saith Pliny in a tempest when the cables are stretcht when the winds beat the waters swell cum gemit arbor when the ship-board groanes yea when the blood commeth out at the marryners fingers ends So faith is no faith till it be soundly tryed Now let me see saith Hercules to his son in Sophocles his Trachiniae Mene an illam potiorem putes whether thou louest thy mother the Papists are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or me better So God of vs. § 50. As for Deut. 17. that two witnesses are to be heard I answer in matter of fact not of faith where Angels are not to be heard if they crosse the Gospel though comming from heauen nay Anathema must be said to them which the Councell of Laodicea precisely obserues in this very cause of adoring Angells Can. 35. to giue Anathema to all such belike Angells and all of which before Yea not onely Angels but Christ himselfe if he be counterfeited is to be reiected Ecce hîc ecce illic as in the Cooke Cartosus in the zeale of the multitudes madde vpon Mamas and the like For to speake of Peter now were superfluous after these though he be your Pope whom you preferre before all in your partiall fancy of whome Remigius construes those words of the Apostle Gal. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though any other though the Pope himselfe yea if himselfe corrupt the Gospel let him be accursed § 51. But that surpasses in your 70. Num. that because the Bishop shewes by his quotation of Bellarmine that he had read his booke de Beatitud Sanct. lib. 1. cap. 20. and refutes not the answer that he there makes to our mens obiections about praying to Saints therefore he is guilty of wilfull malice and goes against his conscience in not taking away the solutions as there they stand As if the Bishop lackt worke for sooth or his taske had been to refute the Cardinalls Controuersies and not the Apology onely With such crimes you patch vp when you lacke matter § 52. You thinke much that the Bishop calls you to such authors as Origen against Celsus as Athanasius and Cyrill and the like Fathers auncienter then those that you delight in by which time a leake was made in relligion and corruption which can hardly be kept out for a hundred yeares as Luther was wont to say in processe of time had gotten no small aduantage Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus his speach is very obseruable concerning the Church that being left as a chast virgine spouse of Christ to the Apostles

them that shall receiue the inheritance of saluation And yet it followes againe a little after to refute Celsus his fonde distinction of satrapae aulici and satrapae coelestes or elementares which is the Papists distinction at this day and likewise their comparison of earthly fauourites in Princes Courts with celestiall spokesmen and mediators for vs in the kingdome of heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Looke you saies he how Celsus hath deuised his Satrapae and Consuls and Praefecti vnder-officers of the great God after the fashion of silly mortallmen c. But this beeing formerly refuted by Ambrose we shall need no longer to insist vpon it here Pag. 430. thus we read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. that is How much better is it to entrust our selues with the God which is aboue all things hee would haue trust to bee put in none but in God through Iesus Christ which hath taught vs this lesson and to craue of him all aide and preseruation euen that which the holy Angels and righteous spirits may afford vs that they may rescue vs from the naughtie deuills which hover about the earth are plunged in sensualitie c. The preseruation through Angels is to bee sought for from God not from Angels themselues What then shall we pray to them for if wee may not pray to them for that which themselues immediately and of themselues may afford But I will conclude for Origen and his opinion of this matter with that one famous sentence of his and reiection of Celsus which is extent in the foresaid booke pag. 432. of the Greeke Celsus therefore hauing endeauoured diuers manner of waies as is the fashion of all such to diuert the minde from her dependance vpon God alone insomuch as after he had sought to enfeoffe them to Angels at last hee was not ashamed to enthrall them to mightie Princes Potentates here in earth not caring which way so he discouraged pietie and decayed relligion like that vngodly Law-giuer which forbad Daniel and all his subiects to aske any thing of God for the space of certaine dayes but onely of himselfe To this subtill deuice of Celsus I say thus Origen replyes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. that is Wee must endeauour to please onely God alone who is aboue all things AND VVEE MVST PRAY TO HIM ALONE THAT HE VVOVLD BE MERCIFVLL TO VS procuring his fauour with godly pietie and all manner vertue And yet if Celsus would needs haue vs to insinuate into the fauour of any more besides the most high and supreame God let him consider that as when the bodie is mooued the motion of the shadow doth infallibly accompanie it In like sort if Almightie God be but propitious vnto vs it followes that all his friends both Angels and spirits and soules of the righteous will be freindly to vs and take our parts For they are priuy vnto such as are thought worthy to finde fauour in the eies of Almightie God And not onely they meane well to such as are found worthy but they assist all such as are forward at the worshipping of God Almighty and they pray together with them and they entreat together with them and together with them they encline him to fauour Insomuch as wee may boldly say that with godly vertuous men praying to God an innumerable companie of heauenly powers pray together with them VNPRAYED VNTO or vnspoken to succouring with ioynt consent our mortall and fraile nature whom they see so many deuills to make head against and to seeke by all meanes to subuert their saluation specially such as haue committed themselues to God forsaking and abandoning all other created patronages Of Origen thus much Is there yet any more § 54. You say the Saints were neuer honoured in like manner as the heroes of the heathen Yet you may remember what Mantuan saith Vt Latij Martem sic nos te sancte Georgi And many such like testimonies out of your owne mouths might be alleadged to conuince your idolatries if we list to obserue them Or if the Saints are not honoured like the heroes of the heathen when as questionlesse they stand in like proportion to God in your opinion it must needs be because you are borne downe with that truth that none are to be honoured with relligious worship but onely GOD in what proportion or distance soeuer they stand vnto him Culius relligionis or the relligious worship is not to be giuen to any creature but to God onely saith S. Austen no meane Father and in no meane worke of his but another palmare if I may say it without offending you which the Bishop cannot doe of his de ciuit Dei but you will be euer touching vpon that string And I meane contr Faustum lib. 14. c. 11. Apostolus vetat culium relligionis exhiberi creaturae The Apostle forbids relligious worship to be giuen to the creature If the Apostles authoritie may mooue with you forbidding it let S. Austen be beleeued deliuering the message and telling you that he forbids it S. Chrysostome had said vpon Matth. 26. in the homily quoted not long before to the like purpose that when the Apostles disswaded our Sauiour from suffering he referred them to the Scriptures Else saith he how shall the Scriptures be fulfilled And so repugnantibus quamvis Apostolis vicit sententia Scripturarum But this is two in one that we bring you now not an Apostle without Scripture but an Apostle in his writing or the Apostolicke Scripture And for interpretation of it you haue the iudgement of S. Austen The Apostle quoth he forbids relligious worship to be giuen to the creature And there the Scripture preuailed against the Apostles to the destroying of our Sauiour How much more shall Scripture and Apostolicke Scripture preuaile against all such pitiful deponents as you rely vpon to the maintenance of Christs honour which is dearer to him then his life So as these things are more if they be laid together then arguments ab authoritate merè negatiuâ which you so scoff at numb 73. as if that were the only argument that the Bishop brought or not sufficient to beat you down as he vrges it And now to shew what a Clerke you are you charge the Bishop in the last place with false quoting of Athanasius You graunt that in his third oration contra Arianos he prooues the diuinitie of our Sauiour Christ from our adoration of him Of which it is consequent that no meere creatures are at all to be adored neither Saints nor Angels We take this grant of yours concerning Athanasius his authoritie As for your trifling distinctions wherewith you would elude it they haue beene huffed out before And yet more may be said in the next chapter where you shal heare your owne Doctor Dr. Gregor de Valent. to renounce this distinction and cleane wash his hands of it Meane while S. Austens testimonie so lately quoted is a choake-peare that you

the Apocalyps cap. 8. v. 3. after their Popish sense There were giuen vnto him many incenses that he should offer of the prayers of ALL Saints p. 304 91. Substantiall seruice of God there must bee none besides his word though decent ceremonies be left to discretion Caetera disponam The Adioynders instats to the contrary are answered à pag. 305. ad 309 92. The inditers of holy writ had commaundement for their doing p. 309. 310. vide Irenaeum lib. 3. c. 1. Per Dei voluntatem Euangelium nobis in Scripturis tradiderunt primò qui illud ipsum praeconiauerunt c. Sed Aug. de consensu Euangelist l. 2. c. extremo Deus ipse scripsit quae Apostoli Euangelistae scripserunt Quia scribenda illis tanquam SVIS MANIBVS imperauit Certè autem manus si consultò agunt nihil admodum agunt sine imperio animae Ergò 93. Baptisme of young children hath sufficient grounds in Scripture p. 310. 311 94. How the Churches determination stoppes heretikes mouthes though the Scriptures are silent p. 311. 312 95. The Canon of the Church of England about the Crosse in Baptisme no way guilty of the Adioynders malepert slaunder p. 312. 313. 314. 96. A viuis ad Diuos non sequitur consequentia And what the reason is p. 315 97. Onely Christ is mediator as well of intercession as of redemption p. 316. 317 98. The absurd blasphemy of the Iesuites as if God the Father commended vs to Christ his sonne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 317 99. The booke of Daniel makes not for praying to Saints or putting confidence in them Origen against it What is done for the Saints sake is not done for their merits sake nor to bee drawne to Inuocation p. 318. 319. 320 100. Bigge words of the Adioynder that the graunting of our prayers is to be ascribed to the authority that the Saints haue not onely to their suite Aptissima muscipula ad idololatriam p. 320. 101. The Papists faile in their probations by the Fathers touching prayer to Saints for all their iolly crakes More good Latine of the Adioynders p. 321 102. The Adioynders water will seeth no beefe He should haue testimonies enough he saies for praying to Saints out of the Fathers writings but that in such and such ages very few Fathers wrote at all p. 322 103. The signe of the Crosse hath antiquitie to commend it besides authoritie to commaund it Praying to Saints hath neither the one to be respected nor the other to be obeyed p. 323 104. Bishops may erre Chrys 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Episcopi vexant ecclesiam sicut Iobum vxor amici sui The safest relying when all is done is vpon Scripture Erunt stabula fidelium illic à pag. 323. ad 326 105. Fathers scattered misse of the validitie that they haue in Synods Vide Bell. de auct Concil l. 2. c. 2. Episcopos SEORSVM existentes spiritus sanctus non docet omnem veritatem ibid. in fine Sine dubio SINGVLI Episcopi errare possunt c. Vide eundem c. 6. Alia ratio est Pastorum in Concilio congregatorum alia vero dispersorum c. p. 326 106. Malum ex sanctuario Sal fatuum The Church-men broach error p. 327 107. The Scripture winnes the field though the Fathers come in at triumph And so meant S. Austen when he charges vpon Iulian with the authoritie of sixe Bishops as sufficient to conuict him Els we know sixe Bishops are nothing to weigh with the world of faithfull besides Originall sinne plaine by Scripture though the Adioynder stone-blind cannot see it p. 328. 329. 108. Once againe the Adioynders stale trumperies from Benefits and Miracles to conclude for Inuocation of Saints in blisse But Ter si resurgat c. p. 330 109. Two witnesses not to be heard against Christ or his word nor yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Peters priuie nippe in Galat. 2. as Remigius conceiues of it But the Popes for certaine or whosoeuer is the prime ibid. 110. Corruption easily creepes into the Church p. 331 111. Origens wauering about Saints praying for vs Audivi quendam ità dicentem c. But peremptorie that we must not pray to Saints or heauenly Angells but to God onely through Iesus Christ à pag. 332. ad 339. latè 112. The Bishops testimonies against praying to Saints which he produces out of the Fathers are farre more pregnant then ab authoritate negativè as the Adioynder slaunders him p. 340. 341. 113. The Bishops quotation of Athanasius most vpright and most authenticall though it please Mr. Adioynder either of blindnes or boldnes to denie that there is any such text in the booke By occasion of search not onely that but seuen more places of Athanasius are alleadged all of them neere hand and to the same effect viz. that God onely is to be adored and prayed vnto not Creatures p. 342. 343 CHAP. 9. 114. THe Bishop changes wordes without changing the question giuing more light to it He is not tied to tearmes as the Adioynder and they that haue no great store of Latine beforehand Earthly Monarchie disctaimed in shew but challenged in substance by the Adioynder and his copes-mates p. 345 115. Supererogation The Bishop swarueth not from the state of the question p. 346. 347. 348 116. The Sacrament not at all Christ euery where to be adored p. 348. 349. 350 117. Adoration of relliques The Bishop constant to the question though they cauill him for the cōtrarie Yea so constant that they carpe him for his very constancie to the Kings Apologie with the same breath p. 350. 351 118. S. Iohn was at a fault worshipping the Angell p. 351 119. The Adioynder turnes all into courting and complement betweene the Angell and S. Iohn p. 352 120. The very Popish authors will not permit vs to worship Angells since the Incarnation of Christ So as the Adioynder pleading for it shewes who is the Iew and the digger vp of ceremonies like Sara vnder the Oke as he reniles the Bishop but most senselesly euery where p. 353 121. No third kind of adoration Therefore no relligious to creatures ibid. p. 354 122. Iosephs rodde how worshipped by Iacob p. 355. 356. 357. 123. The worshipping of the footestoole Nabuchodonosors adoring of Daniel Subiection to Infidells is no disparagement to true vertue p. 357. 358 124. Awodden reason and a wicked yeelded by the Adioynder why it is called relligious worship viz. because done to relligious persons But by that reason God himselfe should haue no part in it who beares relligion to none The Saints so let in as God himselfe is shut out by our deuout Iesuits p. 359. 360 125. No adoration and yet a ciuill adoration makes no contradiction in the sense ibid. 126. Gregorie de Valentia flatly denying relligious worship to Creatures p. 360 127. The Bishop not to blame for expounding S. Hierome by S.