fastidia detergeret Nihil enim fere de illis obscuritatibus eruitur quod non planissimè dictum alibi reperiatur The holie ghost hath magnifically and wholsomlie so tempered the holy scriptures that with euident places he might satisfie hunger and with more darke places might wipe awaie disdainfulnes For nothing almoste is found out of those obscurities which is not found els where most plainlie vttered It were no hard matter to heape vp manie testimonies of the auncient fathers to this purpose but that the va nitie of this answerer appeereth sufficientlie in all our bookes written against the papists in which not onely by the manifest places of the scriptures but also by most euident testimonies of the doctors of the church we confute them in the most and greatest matters of controuersie that ate betweene vs. But what saith our gallant answerer that the councels fathers and anciters of theChurch haue from time to timedeclared the true sense of the scriptures vnto vs hath none of these at any time erred in expounding the scriptures may we safely beleeue them whatsoeuer they say He wil I warrant you deny it except the Pope of Rome do alow their interpretations And therfore this flying from the only scriptures to the interpretation of Coun cels fathers ancetors of the Church is nothing els but an impudent shift to reserue vnto the Pope liberty authority to make what meaning of scripture they please thereby to giue colour to euery fansie they list to father it vpon the authority of the holie scriptures The third cause he affirmeth to be that by chalenging of onely scripture they maie deliuer themselues from all ordinan ces or doctrines left vnto vs by the first pillers of Christs Church though not expressely set down in the scripture c. In deede to deliuer our selues from the burthen of mens traditions the ordinances or doctrines of men we affirme the holie scriptures to be hable and sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation by faith in Iesus Christ as the Apostles and principall pillers of the Church haue taught vs who haue left no such ordinances or doctrines but they be either expressely set down in the holy scriptures or by plaine and necessarie collection to be gathered out of the same For how will our aduersaries prooue that anie thing is receaued from the Apostles which hath not testimonie out of the writings of the Apostles who can be a sufficient witnes of such de liuerie seeing manie things were of olde referred to the Apostles tradition which euen our aduersaries do not admit to be Apostolical seeing the most auncient and immediate successors of the Apostles as Polyearpus Anicetus can not agree about a ceremony receaued from the Apostles namelie the celebration of Easter what certentie can there be of anie other ordinances or doctines fathered vpon the Apostles without witnes of their writings yea and some times directlie contrarie and repugnant to their writings But hereof saith our aduersarie they assume authoritie of allowing or not allowing whatsoeuer liketh or serueth their turnes for the time and hereof he bringeth example First of the number of sacraments whereof some protestants haue written diuerslie because the name of sacrament is diuerslie taken sometimes largelie for euerie holie signe sometimes strictlie for such holie signes onely as being instituted of God are seales of the dispensation of his generall grace in the new teftament perteining to euerie member of the Church somtimes for al holy mysteries or secrets c. But what doth it serue anie protestants turne whether there be more or fewer signes in number that maie be called sacraments seeing all protestants agree about the things themselues that are set forth in the scriptures to be visible signes of grace inuisible and the name it selfe Sacrament in that sense we speake of when we saie there are 2. 3. 4. or 7. sacraments is not once vsed This diuersitie therefore is but of a terme and that not vsed in scripture therefore it ariseth not of anie interpretation or peruerse vnderstanding of the scripture as our answerer would haue it seeme to be But let vs heare his example Martin Luther saith he after he had denied all testimonie of man besides himselfe he beginneth thus about the number of sacraments Principiò neganda mihisunt septem sacramenta tantúm tria pro tempore ponenda First of all I must denie seauen sacraments and appoint three for the time Marie this time lasted not long for in the same place he saith that if he would speake according to the vse of onely scripture he hath but one sacrament for vs that is baptisme In this sentence how manie lies and slaunders be packed together First he saith Martin Luther denieth all testimonie of man which is false for he alloweth all testimonie of man that agreeth with the testimonie of God expressed in the scriptures and often citeth the testimonies of the auncient fathers for confirmation of the trueth which he taught indeede he alloweth man no authoritie to institute sacraments or to make articles of faith or lawes to binde the conscience of man and he would haue all mans testimonies to be examined and iudged according to the word of God but this is not to denie all testimonie of man but to distinguish true testimonies of man from false An other slaunder is where he saith that Luther in denying all mans testimonie excepteth him selfe which is altogether vntrue For he requireth none other credit to be giuen to his owne testimonie then he alloweth to the testimonie of other Neither doth he arrogate any authoritie to him selfe which he derogateth from other men And namelie in this booke of the captiuitie of Babilon he taketh not vpon him absolutelie to teach euerie point but so farr forth as he did for the present vnderstand of them promising after greater study more diligent inquirie to intreat of diuers of them more certenly euen in this verie place of the number of the sacraments he saith he will admit three onclie for the present time intending to be further a duised whether there be fewer or more to be entituled with that name Wherein our answerer offereth him the third iniurie in translating tria pro tempore ponenda I must appoint three for the time as though Luther had taken vpon him to appoint how manie sacraments the Church should haue or would challenge power to appoint more or Jesse at his pleasure where as his wordes if the answerer did not wilfullie corrupt them by false translation do import no such thing but onelie as farr as he did presentlie see there were no more but three of those that were commonlie called sacraments of the new testament which were rightlie to be called by that name The fourth slaunder is that Luther hath but one sacrament for vs which is Baptisme if he would speake according to the vse of onelie scripture yea this is a double slaunder for neither doth
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
the scriptures of the authoritie of councels auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primitiue Church they binde them selues to nothing but to the present Popes authoritie and determi nation in thinges which he may choppe and chaunge at his pleasure against which they admitte neither scripture Councell Fathers nor Church For example brieflie The scripture moste plainlie forbiddeh the worshipping of Images will they giue soueraigne authoritie to the scriptures All the primitiue Church for six hundred yeares after Christ condemned the worshipping of Images euen Pope Gregorie that allowed the vse of them shall the authoritie of the primatiue Church or of Pope Gregorie in this point ouerrule them No I warrant you they will set them al to schoole and learne them a new lesson Theodoretus Bishop of Cyrus and Gelasius Bishop of Rome doe in plaine wordes affirme that the substance of bread and wine doth remaine in the Lordes supper after consecration doth either the antiquitie of these fathers or the determination of the Bishop of Rome which otherwise they affirme neuer to erre in doctrine preuaile with them against their new here sie of transsubstantiation The councells of Constantiople the first and of Chalcedon decreed that the Bishop of Constantinople should haue equall authoritie and dignitie with the Bishop of Rome The councells of Constans and Basill determined that the Councell is aboue the Pope The councels of Constantinople the sixt and Nice the second condemned the Pope for an heretike will the Papists of these daies trow you stand to the determination of these Councells you maie be assured they will not But the traditions of the Apostles they holde fast and binde them-selues vnto yea verilie as long and as much as they list What beareth a greater shew of the Apostles traditions then the Canons of the Apostles which excommunicate a Bishop priest or deacon that putteth away his wiffe vnder pretence of religion which excommunicate anie of the cleargie that is present at the communion doth not communicate except he shewe a cause whie he doth not Which admmitted him that is maimed in his eie or other partes of his bodie being otherwise worthie vnto the office of a Bishop because the maime of the bodie doth not pollute a man but the filthines of the soules These such like traditions of the Apostles how are they regarded of our Traditioners euen as much as they list and that is neuer a whit at this time and yet these men binde them selues to Councells Fathers traditions primitiue Church you see how farre Yea you see that while they raile vpon vs for appealing to onelie scriptures they themselues relie vpon the present Popes authoritie onelie Let all indifferent men therefore iudge whether it be more safe for a Christian man to bind him-selfe to the authoritie of scriptures onelie or to the Popes authoritie onelie and whether claime a priuiledge of ease they that will admitte no testimonie irrefragable but onelie the scripture or they which chattering of many other things in the end conclude vpon the Church onelie which when it commeth to triall is nothing els but the Pope onelie for if all the Church saie it and the Pope denie it it is nothing worth with them and if the Pope affirme it thoughe all the Church denie it it must stand for paiment But seeing the sense and interpretation of scripture is the cheefe matter we haue to speake of let vs consider whether Master Charke be iustlie charged by our answerer to haue abused that scripture by interpretation which is the chiefe ground of his preface and which he saith is a full and plaine rule whereby to discerne and trie the spirites namelie the text of Saint Iohn 1. Iohn 4. Euerie spirite which confesseth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is of God and euerie spirite which confesseth not Iesus Christ being come in the flesh is not of God and this is that spirit of Antichrist c. This text Master Charke doth so expound as that it conteineth a confession not onelie of the person of Christ but also of his office for which office sake that wonderfull person of God and man Iesus Christ was ordeined and sent into the world to be a Prophet alone to teach a King alone to rule a Priest alone to sanctifie vs and to reconcile vs to his father by the obedience of faith And if any spiritte shall teach that Christ is not our onelie teacher by his Gospell but that we must admitte vnwritten beleefe and traditions from we know not whome to be of like authoritie with the written worde Secondlie if any spirite make not Christ alone our King and head to rule vs by his holie spirite but teach that a mortal and sinfull man must sit in our consciences and for hatred or gaine which is his practise binde or loose at his pleasure lastlie if anie spirite impeach the all-sufficiencie and entire vertue of Christes sacrifice offered vp once for euer and teach that themselues must enforce it from day to day by the continuance of their daylie sacrifice of the Masse offered for the quick and the deade it appeareth manifestlie that such spirits are not of God c. This interpretation of Master Charke saith the answerer conteineth manie absurdities For first the auncient fathers did expound this place as of it selfe it is moste euident against the Iewes which denied Christ to haue taken flesh also against Ebion Cerinthus and other heretikes that denied the Godhead of Christ. Note here by the aduersaries confession that some places of scripture are of them selues moste euident whereof this is one against the Iewes other heretikes that deny the godhead of Christ. And I hope you shall see it shortly as euident against the Papists that denie his offices To this interpretation of the auncient fathers we agree that whosoeuer denieth the person of Christ or any thing proper to his person is of Antichrist But none of the auncient fathers doe affirme that this text is to be vnderstood against such enemies onelie as denie the Godhead or manhoode of Christ. For Augustine and Oecumenius do interpret it against all heretikes and schismatikes which although they confesse this matter in wordes yet denie it in deedes and Oecumenius against all wicked persons which haue not the spirite of Christ mortifying their vngodlie lustes which carie not the mortification of Christ in their bodie c. Augustine also expoundeth the place against all that breake charitie Omnes negant Iesum Christum in carne venisse qui violant charitatem All they denie Iesus Christe to haue come in the flesh which doe breake or violate charitie whie so because not onelie the person that came but the end whie he came must be considered in the interpretation of this place as Saint Augustine rightlie iudgeth or els all heretikes will after a manner in tongue and wordes confesse that Iesus Christ came in the flesh But Quaeramus saith
diuine contemplation by those praiers that are sent vp vnto him Thus much Eusebius of the sacrifice of Christians As for Theophylact in the place by him quoted wherein either his Printer or his note booke hath deceiued him hath nothing touching this matter in question but vpon the 10. Chapter he hath the verie words of Chrisostome which I haue sette downe at large before Suboritur hîc quaestio c. Here riseth a question whether we also do offer vnbloodie sacrifice whereto I answere that we do certainlie but we keepe a memorie of the Lords death and it is one sacrifice and not mante seeing he was offered vp once for all For we offer vp the same alwaies but rather we keepe the memorie of that oblation wherein he offered him felfe as if it were done euen now Thus none of the auncient writers to whome he doth referre the reader for defence of his Popish sacrifice do speake anie thing for it and some of them do write directlie against it And now the answerer thinketh he might haue ended his preface but that he promised to shew that they offer most reasonable meanes of triall and that we in deede admit none at all Of both these partes we haue spoken alreadie sufficientlie to the conscience of all reasonable men yet must we further answere to such matters as he can obiect against vs. And first he saith All the controuersie being not of the words but of the sense of the scriptures we admit no Iudge but our selues To this I answere first that all the controuersie is not about the sense onelie but some about the wordes also where we alledge the interpretation of them out of the originall tongues and they wil admit none but the vulgar translation which in manie places is false in some places also corrupted from the integritie in which it was first written Secondlie that we admit no Iudge of it but our selues it is false of vs and true of them For they admit no interpretation of the scripture but that which their Church alloweth which alloweth nothing but that the present Pope alloweth whome they make Iudge of all interpretation and to whose Iudgement they will all stand Conttariewise we take vpon vs no iudgement but that which is common to all men by reason and learning to waigh all thinges that are brought vnto vs the cheife Iudge or rule to Iudge by being the holie scriptures in places of them selues euident and confessed or to be confessed by right reason of all that acknowledge the authoritie of the scriptures by them to finde out the obscurities of such places as are hard and haue neede of interpretation But if they bring scripture saith he neuer so plaine yet will we shift it of with some impertinent interpretation whereof he bringeth two or three examples in which you shall plainlie see how like a Papist he handleth him-selfe in all kinde offalshood and treacherie The first example is this The moste of the auncient fathers write bookes in praise of virginitie aboue wedlock and vsed to prooue it by the saying of Christ There be Eunuches which haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen he that can take it let him take it Also by the words of Saint Paul he that ioyneth his virgine in mariage doth wel and he that ioyneth her not doth better Which words being alledged against M. Luther who preferred marriage yea though it were of a vowed Nunne before virginitie he answered it thus That Christ by his words terrified men from virginitie and continencie and Saint Paul by this speech did disswade them from the same Now what could be replied saith he in this case trow you He beginneth with a lie and so he holdeth on For the moste of the auncient fathers haue not written bookes in praise of virginity aboue wedlock neither is he able to prooue that the one halfe of them haue wri ten bookes of that argument although manie of them haue in their writings mentioned that comparison Secondlie in the state of the controuersie he offereth vs shamefull iniurie for we all confesse that in the respects named by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles virginitie is better then marriage in such persons as haue the gist of continencie but not in all respects and namelie not in such respectes as the Papists do preferre it of merite for them-selues and others c. nor in persons that lack that rare gift of continencie For neither Christ nor Saint Paul do saie that virginitie meriteth more then mariage or the profession of virginitie in all men though they haue not the gift of continencie is better then a chaste life in holie matrimonie Wherefore that which we affirme against the Papists is against that which they affirme more then Christ or S. Paull spake and is more then by anie lawfull demonstration can be prooued out of their words Thirdlie in rehearsing the text against the plainnes whereof he bringeth Luthers interpretation he fraudulentlie leaueth out those wordes whereupon the exposition of Luther is grounded namely these words non omnes capiunt c. All men are not capable of this saying but they to whome it is giuen If you aske of what saying the text is plaine his disciples said vnto him If the cause of aman and his wife be so that he may not be diuorced but for adulterie it is not expedient to marrie but all men saith Christ doe not receiue or cannot take this saying For there be three kindes of Eunuches or gelded men the third onelie being voluntarie and for an excellent end is commendable so it be giuen vnto him that he maie take it He that can take it let him take it Is it not euident by this text that Christ terrifieth all such men from this high attempt to whome it is not giuen and exhorteth them onlie which haue the gift to vse it Now to come to Luthers interpretation First he saieth that Luther preferreth Marriage before virginitie yea though it were of a vowed Nunne This as it is simplie set downe is a lowd lie for Luther acknowledgeth the preferment of virginitie before mariage in persons hauing the gift and for the end and respects by Christ and Saint Paull named as by his owne wordes in diuerse places of his workes is manifest and most plainlie Exege ad Cap. 7. Ep. ad Cor. 1. Nam sicubi coniugium quis cum coelibatu conferat praestantius certè donum est coelibatus For if a man compare mariage with virginitie virginitie verilie is a better gift Concerning the mariage of a vowed Nunne if she haue the gift of continencie and will renounce the superstitious and blasphemous end for which she vowed virginitie and vse it to the glorie of God you shall heare Luthers iudgement Nec ideo caelibatum virginitatem reprobare mihi 〈◊〉 est nec inde quenquam ad iugale vinculum inuitare quisque pro dono suo diuinitus impartito vt potest feratur For
the workes of nature or will which are in vs but by the he lie ghoste which is geuen vnto vs which both helpeth our infirmitie and worketh with our health for that is the grace of God by Iesus Christ our Lord. to whome with the father and the holie ghoste be ascribed eternitie and goodnes for euer In this discourse of S. Augustine is declared that the commaundements of God are made possible and not heauie to be fulfilled by the grace of God nor by the strength of man either of nature or will and that by two meanes faith and loue Faith by which we craue obtaine forgiuenes of our imperfection and loue by which we cherefully endeuour to accomplish in work so much as we can which we can not do perfectly in this life in as much asno mans heart is pure in this life no mans loue is perfect in this world yet faith purifying our harts that by themselues are vnclean obtaineth as the same 's Augustine saith that which the law commaundeth But how far is this from the popish assertion to wit The law is not abooue our abtlitie to keepe it The cursse that you cite out of Augustine Serm. 191. and Ierorme explan Symb. ad Damasum is but a crack of a broken bladder in stead of a thunderbolte For both the sermon and the explanation are counterfeit stuffe being all one word forword except a litle 〈◊〉 flue in the beginning and the end and yet are most impudentlieascribed both to Augustine and Ierome But that ne ther of both is author of that sentence I wil prooue by 〈◊〉 of Saint Ierome who expresselie affirm ah that which the sermon and explanation accurseet We cursse the blasphemie of them saie the counterfeiters which saie that anie thing impossible is commaunded by God to man and that the commaundements of God cannot be kept of euerie one but of all in common Saint lerome dialog aduers. Pelag. lib. 1. saith Possibilia praecepit 〈◊〉 ego fateer Sed haec possibilia cuncta singuli habere non possumus non imbeciliitate naturae ne calumniam facias deo sed animilassitudine quae 〈◊〉 simul semper non potest habere virtutes God commaunded things possible and that I confesse But all these possible thinges euerie one of vs can not haue through weakenes of nature lest thou shouldest slaunder God but through wearines of minde which can not haue all vertues together and alwaies And his whole discourse in that dialogue is to prooue that no man can be without sinne the contrarie whereof is flat Pelagianisine He expoundeth also at large how the commaundements of God are possible and how vnpossible which maie be seene of anie man that will read his writings against the Pelagians and therfore it is very iniurious vnto him to make him a patrone of that sentence which he put posedlie and plentifullie impugneth To conclude Chrysostome and Basile meane not that a perfect obseruation of Gods law is possible in this life but that God geueth grace in some measure to keepe them to those that are borne 〈◊〉 in Christ in whome onelie is performed that which was impossible by the law as the A postle saith These fathers and diuerse other whose authority the Pelagians abused as you do to vpholde their heresie by such speeches meant to accuse the negligence and slothfulnes of men in keepeing Gods commaundements not to extoll the power and abilitie of mans free will to keepe them as Saint Augustine prooueth by manie testimonies taken out of their writinges in his treatises against the Pelagians The eleuenth section of de facing the scriptures and doctrines by tradition THe Iesuites you saie do not vse these termes of defacing that the scripture is imperfect maimed or lame and thereof I will not contend but the same in effect they holde as Master Charke saith when they affirme that all things necessarte to saluation are not contained in the scripture Your similitude of a marchant leauing his commaundements partelie in writings and partelie by word of mouth and referring the resolution of doubtes vnto his wife is not sufficient in this case For our Sauiour Christ liueth for euer whereas his seruants and the men of whome his Church which is his spouse consisteth are changed in euerie generation So that there can be no certaintie of his commaundements but onelie by his writings which if they containe not all thinges necessarie to saluation they are imperfect lame and maimed And where you saie that Saint Augustine prooueth the contrarie at large lib. 1. cont Cresc c. 32. it is vtterlie vntrue For he saith expresselie concerning the question of rebaptising them that were baptized by heretikes Sequimur sanè nos in hac re etiam Canonicarum authoritatem certissimam scripturarum We truelie doe follow in this matter also the most certaine authoritie of the Canonicall scriptures whereunto he adioineth the consent of the Catholike Church after some disceptation about the matter whose counsell agreeable to the holie scripture no man doubteth bur it is to be followed Theverie same doctrine you saie teacheth the said father lib. de side operibus cap. 9. and also ep 66. ad Don. In the former is no worde to the purpose he speaketh of the Eunuch whome Philip baptized whose confession of Christ being verie shorte some thought to be sufficient for anie man that should receaue baptisme whereas there is a more distinct knowledge and particuler explication of this faith in other places of scripture set downe that is to be required of them that are catechised and come to baptisme In the last quotation I thinke there is a faulte either in your Printer or in your notebooke which setteth downe ep 66. for ep 166. which is directed to the Donatistes whereas the other is to Maximus But in this epistle to the Donatistes there is nothing that prooueth this matter that the scriptures containe not all things necessarie to saluation Onelie he exhorteth the Donatistes to vnitie shewing that out of the same scriptures which teach Christ to be the head his bodie the Church is to be discerned and learned Touching the twelue pointes of doctrine set downe by the Censure as not conteined expresselie in the scripture and yet to be beleeued Master Charke answereth that seuen of them are in scripture the rest not necessarie to be beleeued But here you saie the question is of expresse scripture and not of any farre fet place that by interpretation may be applied to a controuersie If you meane by expresse scripture that which is expressed in so many wordes as the thing in cōtrouersy we deny that we haue anysuch question with you For we holde that any thing which by necessary demonstration can be concluded out of the scripture is as true as necessary to be beleeued as that which is expressed in plaine wordes And so we meane when we saie all thinges necessarie to saluation are conteined in the holie scriptures And as for your
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke
aliquid dictum est sed vbi clara â—â—aperta sune testimonia id facere consueuerunt more quiaâ—â— haereâ—icorum etiam caetâ—rorum It is no maruel if the Pelagians endeuor to wrest our sayings into what senses they will when they are accustomed to do the same by the holie scriptures not where any thing is spoken darkely but where the testimonies are cleere and manifest after the manner indeede of the rest of heretikes These wordes of Saint Augustine doe as aptelie agree to the Papists as though they had bene by name vttered against them as in that which followeth you shall see verified in this Papist whoe both wresteth out sayings to such sense as himselfe pleaseth and also the holie scriptures themselues where they are most plaine and euident against him a right pranek of olde herenkes Note also by the waie that the scripture by Saint Augustines iudgement containeth most cleere and euident testimonies which though they be neuer so much wrested of herenkes yet in the conscience of all that loue the truth they doe manifestlie deliuer true doctrine and confute false and therefore be not as a nose of wax or a leaden rule by which no certentie maie be found or anie sure triall had by them as the Papists doe blaspheme The next quotation l. 3. cont Donat. ca. 15. is vncertaine because of diuerse treatises that S. Augustine did write against the Donatists but I gesse he meaneth his booke de Baptismo contra Donatistas where yet is nothing to his purpose or to anie purpose in hand but that the scripture of the Gospell If it be wholl is the same although it be alleadged by innumerable heretikes according to the diversitie of euerie one of their opinions and so Baptisme ministred by heretikes according to the institution of Christ is the same what opinion soever the heretikes haue of the wordes by which it is consecrated and ministred He saith also that the snares of heretikes and schismatikes are therefore very pernicious to carnal men because their proâ—ting in knowledge is shut from them their sentence of vanitie being confirmed against the Catholike trueth and their sentence of dissention being conâ—â—â—med agâ—inâ— the catholike peace These things are true of obstinate heretikes and consequentlie of Papists but they make nothing against Master Chark or for the triall of spirits which is the question now debated betweene him his aduersarie But that the scriptures are sufficient to beate downe al heresies and to reach all trueth necessarie to saluation and the onelie sure and certaine triall whereby all doctrine is to be examined and adiudged the same Augustine doth plentifullie and in manie places of his workes declare and euen in that same worke de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. Cap. 2. de vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2 3. 16. de nup. conc lib. 2. cap. 29. de peccat merit remiss lib. 3. cap. 7. de natura gratia cap. 60. c. Three causes there be saith our answerer of appealing onelie to scripture The first to get credit with the people by naming of scripture to seeme to honor it more then their aduersaries doe by referring the wholl triall of matters vnto it To winne credit by cleauing to the authoritie of God expressed in his holie word written and to honor it by acknowledging the sufficiencie thereof for the triall of all matters of religion that maie comme in controuersie is no shift of heretikes or new teachers but the auncient practize of the best and most approoued Catholikes To pretend these things in shew and not to accomplish them in deed is the guise of hypocrites what religion soeuet they would seeme to mantaine The second cause saith he is by excluding Councells fathers and aunciters of the Church whoe from time to time haue declared the true sexse of scripture vnto vs to reserue vnto them selues libertie and authoritie to make what meaning of scripture they please and thereby to giue colour to euerie fansie they list to teach But Master Charke and his fellowes giuing the soueraigne authoritie to the onely scriptures do not at all exclude councells fathers and aunciters of the Church except it be in case where they teach contrarie to the manifest scriptures of god which doe either in expresse and plaine wordes or els by moste easie and necessarie conclusion deliuer vnto the Church all things needefull to be credited and knowne vnto eternall life as both the Apostle testifieth 2. Timoth. 3. and S. Augustine a worthie Father auncient of the Church consenteth Ep. III. Fortunatiano Neque enim quorumlibet disputationes quamuis CatholicoruÌ„ laudatorum hominum velut scripturas canonicas habere debemus vt nobis nonliceat salua honorificentia quae illis dcbetur hominibus aliquid in eorum scriptis improbare atque respuere si fortè inuenerimus quòdaliter senserint quà m veritas habet diuino adiutorio vel ab aliis intellecta vel à nobis Talis ego sum in scriptis aliorum tales volo esse intellectores meorum Denique in his omnibus quae de opusculis sanctorum atque doctorum commemoraui Ambrosij Hyeronimi Athanasij Gregorij siqua alioruÌ„ talia ita legere potui For we ought not to accompt the disputations of all men although they be catholike praise worthie as the Canonicall scriptures that it should not be lawful for vs sauing the reuerence which is due to these men to disalow and reiect something in their writings if perhaps we haue found out that they haue thought otherwise then the truth is of things by gods helpe either vnderstood of others or of our selues Such one am I in the writings of other men such would I haue other men to be vnderstanders of my writings Finallie in all these which I haue rehearsed out of the workes of holie and learned men Ambros Hicrott Athanasius Gregorie Andif I could so reade any like of other mens writings c. Also Ep. 112. Pauline 〈◊〉 scripturarum earum scilicet quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate fine vlla dubitatione credendum est Aliis verò testibus vel testimoniis quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum meriti ea admonentem ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis What sceuer is confirmed by the plaine cleare authoritie of the holie scriptures of those truelie which are called in the Church canonicall without all doubt is to be beleeued But other witnesses or testimonies by which anie thing is counselled to be beleeued it is lawfull for thee to beleeue or not according as thou shale waigh what worthines he that counselleth those things hath to cause credit or els hath not Againe De doctrina christiana lib. 3. cap. 6. Magnificè salubriter spiritus sanctus ita scripturas sanctas modificauit vt locis apertioribus fami occurreret obscurioribus autem
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
whereunto scripture is consonant And here you swell as much as anie to ade in the opinion of your deepe knowledge in these matters Neuertheles we ignorant and vnlearned Protestantes thinke it more safe to be ignorant of the manner of the sonnes generation with Saint Ambrose then to determine beside the scriptures thereof with Thomas Aquinas When Saint Ambrose was pressed with the same question that you set downe of the aduersaries how can God beeing a spirit beget a sonne and yet the same not to be after his father in time or nature but equall with him in both and how doth the father beget he answereth thus De side ad Gratian. lib. 1. cap. 5. Quaeris à me quomodo sifilius sit non priorem habet patrem quaero item abste quando aut quomodo putes filium esse generatum Mihi impossibile-est generationis scire secretum Mens deficit vox silet non meatantùm sed angelorum Supra potestaâ—â— supra angelos supra Cherubin supra Seraphin supra omnem sum est quia scriptum est pax autem Christi quae est supra ennem sensum Si pax Christi supra omnem sensum est quemadmodum non est super omnem sensum tanta generatio Tu quoque manum ori admoue scrutari non licet superna mysteria Licet scire quod natus sit non licet discutere quemadmodum natus sit Illud negare mihi non licet hoc quaerere metus est Nam si Paulus ea quae audiuit raptus in tertium coelum ineffablia dicit quomodo nos exprimere possumus paternae generationis ercanum quod nec sentire potuâ—â—mus nec audire Thou askest of me how if he be a sonne he hath not his father before him I ask likewise of thee when or how thou thinkest that the sonne was begotten For to me it is impossible to knowe the secret of his generation The minde faileth the voice stayeth not of me 〈◊〉 but euen of the Angells It is aboue powers aboue 〈◊〉 aboue Cherubim aboue Seraphim aboue all vnderstanding because it is written The peace of Christ which is aboue all vnderstanding If the peace of Christ be aboue all vnderstanding how is not so excellent a generation aboue all vnderstanding Thou also holde thy hande before thy mouth it is noâ— lawfull to search these high mysteries it is lawful to know 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 begotten it is not lawful to discusse after what manner he is begotten That to denie it is not lawfull for me this to inquâ—â— of I am afearde For if Paul saith that those things which 〈◊〉 being taken vp into the third heauen were unspeakeâ—â— how can we expresse the secret of the fathers generation 〈◊〉 we could neither vnderstand nor heare c. If thâ— determination were no lesse to be beeleeued 〈◊〉 other mysteries of the trinitie that are expressed in the scripture as you affirme Saint Ambrose was short in his faith of the trinitie as euerie man may see by his answere Neuertheles whatsoeuer is obiected that the soone should not be equall in time and nature with the father whereof ensueth the pluralitie of Gods is manifestlie confuted by al those scriptutes that affirme one onelie God and Iesus Christ to be God and the onelie be gotten 〈◊〉 of the father which must needes argue the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in nature time or eternity How this may be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the scripture affirmeth that it is Christians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ought not or neede not to inquire If infidels in 〈◊〉 they are not to be answered by authoritie of 〈◊〉 scriptures which they beeleeue not much lesse 〈◊〉 the Church which they know not And then the 〈◊〉 is out of the matter in coÌ„trouersy whether 〈◊〉 things that are to be beleeued necessarie to 〈◊〉 be conteined in the holie scriptures Neuerthelesse 〈◊〉 to infidels that Philosophicall answer may be giuen how the generation of the sonne by the father 〈◊〉 be without inequality in time or nature but 〈◊〉 it is or must be onelie by vnderstanding of him selfe he thinke it for all your bragges you are not able to 〈◊〉 the determination of your Church to auow it 〈◊〉 for all is not defined by your Church that the 〈◊〉 haue wearied their heades to dispute of But if you could prooue it of necessitie to be so the scriptures that affirme Christ to be the wisedome of the father the word that was in the beginning with the father c. would giue as much light for the manner of his generation as is possible and profitable for man to know Beside this of the 〈◊〉 of the sonne you haue other questions of 〈◊〉 aduersaries what meane they you saie to holde that the 〈◊〉 ghost proceedeth from the father and that the sonne 〈◊〉 not but is begotten To this I answere That the 〈◊〉 ghost proceedeth from the father the text of 〈◊〉 is plaine Iohn 15. 26. that the sonne is begotten of the father Iohn 1. 14. That the sonne proceedeth not from the father albeit he is begotten it is heresie and blaspemie to affirme For he him selfe affirmeth Iohn 16. 28. I proceeded from the father and came into the world and Ioh. 8. 42. Another question you haue like vnto this whie is it heresie to say that the sonne proceedeth from the father or that the holie ghost is begotten I aunswere to saie the holie ghost is begotten it is heresie because the scripture teacheth that the sonne is the onelie begotten of the father But to saie that the sonne proceedeth from the father is no heresie but the contrarie is heresie because it is against the expresse words of Christ as I haue shewed before And Saint Augustine affirmeth expressely that whatsoeuer is begotten proceedeth so that you cannot denie the proceeding of the sonne from the father except you denie his begetting Neuertheleles although the sonne and the holie ghost do both proceede yet not both alike as the same Augustine sheweth de trin lib. 5. cap. 14. vbi illud elucescit vtpote quod solet multos mouere cur non sit filius etiam Spiritus Sanctus cum ipse à patre exeat sicut in Euangelio legitur Exiit enim non quo modo natus sed quo modo datus ideo non dicitur filias quia neque natus est sicut vnigenitus neque factus vtper Dei gratiam in adoptionem nasceretur sicutinos Where that also is made cleare which is wont to moue manie men why the holie ghost also is not the sonne seeing that he also proceedeth from the father as it is read in the gospell For he proceeded not as begotten but as giuen and therefore he is not called the sonne because he is neither begotten as the onely begotten nor made that by the grace of god he might be borne into adoption as we Here you see that proceeding is common to both the persons yet one manner of proceeding proper to the sonne and another to the holie ghost A
necessarie to saluation not expressed in so manie wordes and syllables yet in full sense contained and to be plainlie concluded out of the holie scriptures and these we receiue to be of as great credit as anie thing that is expresselie contained in the scriptures The other kinde of traditions was rites and cerimonies which are not necessary to saluation but are in the Churches power to alter as it maie stand best with edification Among which S. Basill rehearseth some that long since are abolished as the rite of standing in praier one the Lords daie and betweene Easter and Whitsontid which of it selfe is a thing indifferent as also that manner of glorifying in which they said with the holy ghost whereas al the Church long since hath said neither in the holie Ghost nor with the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost To beleeue that the holie Ghost is to be glorified equallie with the Father and the sonne it is necessarie to saluation but in what forme of wordes that shal be song in the Church it is indifferent and the later Church hath vsed her libertie herein to alter that forme which Saint Basill saith was deliuered by the Apostles themselues without writing By this I hope it is manifest what kinde of traditions are of equall force or authoritie with the scripture euen they which haue their ground in the scriptures and none other For as the same Basill affirmeth Euerie word or deede ought to be confirmed by testimonie of the holie Scriptures Againe For if all that is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle saith and faith is of hearing and hearing by the word of God whatsoeuer is beside the holie Scripture being not of faith is sinne Thus Basill whatsoeuer he speaketh of vnwritten traditions he meaneth not against the insufficiencie of the holie scriptures except you will saie he is contrarie to him-selfe in manie places beside these that I haue noted Tr. de vera piafide Epist. 80. in Reg. Breu. Inter. 1. 65. 68. de ornatu Monachi Your next testimonie is out of Eusebius lib. 1. Eu. Demonst. cap. 8. whole wordes you mangle after your manner leauing out at your pleasure more then you rehearse Eusebius hauing shewed the excellencie of Christ aboue Moses declareth also that there are two manners ofliuing in Christianitie the one of them that are strong and perfect the other of them that are subiect to manie infirmites and that whereas Moses did write in tables without life Christ hath written the perfect preceptes of the new Testament in liuing mindes his disciples following their Masters minde considering what Doctrine is meete for both sortes haue committed the one to writing as that which is necessarie to be kept of all the other they deliuered without writing to those that were able to receiue it wich haue excelled the common manner of men in knowledge in strength in abstinence c. And this is the meaning of Eusebius in that place not of anie traditions necessarie to saluation of euerie man which are not taught in the holy scriptures but of certaine precepts tending to perfection not enioyned to all but written in the heartes of some The third man is Epiphanius who you saie is more earnest then Eusebius writing against certaine heretikes called Apostolici which denied traditions as our Protestantes do Which is but a tale for they were more like to Popish monkes and friers then Protestantes For they professed to abstaine from marryage to poslesse nothing and such other superstitions they obserued But what saith Epiphanius for traditions He saith that we must vse tradition For all thinges can not be taken out of the scripture wherefore the holie Apostles deliuered somethings in the scriptures and something in tradition Mine answer to Epiphanius is the same that it was to Basilius Namelie that such things as were not expressed in plaine wordes in the scripture were approoued by tradition being neuertheles such thinges as were to be concluded necessarilie out of the scripture As in the question for which he alledgeth tradition it is manifest Tradiderunt c. the holie Apostles of God saith he haue deliuered vnto vs that it is sinne after virginitie decreed to be turned vnto marriage This the Papistes doubt not but that they are hable to prooue out of the scripture except where the Pope dispenseth And we acknowledge that where the vow was made a duisedly to a Godlie purpose and abilitie in the partie to performe it that it is sinne to breake it neither can the Pope dispense with it In the other place where he rehearseth manie examples of traditions he speaketh of rites and ceremonies as is before declared wherof manie are not obserued in the Popish Church neither is there anie of them necessarie to saluation But Epiphanius you saie prooueth it out of scripture 1. Cor. 11. 14. 15. vhere Saint Paulsaith as I deliuered vnto you And againe so I teach and so I haue deliuered vnto the Churches and If you holde fast except you haue beleeued in vaine To the first I answer that it prooueth no traditions necessarie to saluation which are not contained in the scriptures as is more manifest by the second and third text for where Saint Paul saith so I teach in all the Churches of God 1. Cor. 14. 33. he saith immediatelie before that God is not the God of sedition but of peace 1. Cor. 15. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle speaketh manifestlie of the doctrine of the resurrection wherof he him-selfe in that place writeth plentifullie and in manie other places of scripture the same article is taught moste expresselie You see therefore how substantiallie Epiphanius prooueth tradition vnwritten out of the scripture to be necessarie to saluation which is our question But with Epiphanius saie you ioyneth fullie and earnestlie Saint Chrysostome writing vpon these wordes of Saint Paul to the purpose Stand fast and holde traditions out of which cleere wordes Saint Chrysostome maketh this illation Hinc patet c. Hereof it is euident that the Apostles deliuered not all by epistle but manie thinges also without writing and those are as worthie credit as these Therefore we think the tradition of the Church to be worthie of credit it is a tradition seeke no more The sense of these wordes is that the Apostles in their preaching did expresse manie things more perticularly then in their epistles not that they preached anie thing necessarie to saluation but that the same was contained either in their epistles or in other bookes of the holie scripture And so I saie of the tradition of the Church which is a doctrine contained in the scriptures though not expressed in the same or in so manie wordes as the three persons and one God in trinitie and trinitie in vnitie to be worshipped c. is of equall credit with that which is expressed in the scriptures because the ground of our faith standeth not vppon the sound of wordes but vppon
of Colene in a moste apt similitude called the scripture a nose of waxe and Pighius the leaden rule of the Lesbian building But now concerning the matter it selfe You would shift it of by saying The Iesuites doe compare the hereticall wresting and detorting of scripture vnso the bowing of a nose of waxe vpon certaine circumstances which are these First not in respect of the scripture it selfe but in respect of heretikes and other that abuse it and that before the rude people that cannot iudge thirdlie to the ende to flatter Princes or the people in their vices Thus much was said before in the Censure But it was replied that Andradius confesseth the fathers of Colene doe saie that the holie scripture is as a nose of wax So doth Pighius and it is a thing more commonlie knowen then that it can be denied Therefore the wresting of the scripture is not compared by them to the bowing of a waxen nose but the scripture it selfe to a nose of wax as that which is as easie to be drawne into any sense as a nose of wax may be turned euerie waie The wordes of Pighius are plaine Sunt enim scripturae velut caereus quidam nasus qui sicut hor sum illor sumque facilè se trahi permittit quo traxeris haud inuitus sequitur ita illae se flecti duci atque etiam in diuer sam sententiam trahi accomodarique ad quid-uis patiuntur nist quis veram illam inflexibilemque earundem amussim nempe Ecclesiasticae traditionis authoritatem communemque sententiam ilsdem adhibeat For the holie scriptures are as it were a certaine nose of wax which as it easelie suffereth it selfe to be drawne this waie and that waie and whether soeuer you draw it is followeth not vnwillinglie so also they doe suffer them selues to be bowed to be led and also to be drawen into a contrarie meaning and to be applied vnto what you will except a man lay vnto them that true inflexible rule of them namelie the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Churches tradition These wordes declare if the sense of all Papists be the same that the Iesuites do not onelie compare the scripture it selfe but also that they make this comparison in respect of the scripture it selfe which suffereth it selfe as easelie to be wrested and abused as a nose of wax abideth to be bowed nor before the rude and ignorant onelie nor to flatter Princes and people in their vices alone but before any persons or to any purpose whatsoeuer and that there is not in them a certaine and infallible sense to iudge of the Churches doctrine or to finde out the true Church from all false congregations by the trueth taught in the scriptures but that the authoritie and common vnderstanding of the Popish Churches tradition is the onelie true sense inflexible rule of the holy scriptures wherebie also it is manifest though you denie it neuer so stoutlie that you doe impute the wresting of the scriptures vnto the imperfection of Gods worde set forth in them and not onelie to the malice of the wrester For if the will of God be but as well expressed in them as the will of princes is in their written lawes and proclamations the one maie as well be found out by reading and weighing of the holie scriptures as the other may be out of prophane writings especially where the spirit of God graunted vnto the praiers of the elect openeth their vnderstanding not onelie to conceiue as the naturall man maie by studie and ordinarie helpes the true scope and purpose of God vttered in them but also to beleeue and embrace whatsoeuer the Lord their God hath propounded in them Therefore though the scripture may be wrested to the destruction of the vngodlie as Saint Peter sheweth yet Master Charke telleth you that it cannot so be wrested but that still it remaineth the light vnto our feet and the lanterne vnto our steppes and euerie parte thereof is like the arme of a great Oke which cannot be so wreste but that with great force it will returne into the right position to the shame and perill of the wrester which answere of his you doe so dissemble as though you had neuer seene it And you doe wiselie seeing otherwise then by silence you could not auoid it But howsoeuer Master Charke storme you will defend your blasphemie of the nose of waxe not onelie in a kingdome where the Ghospell is preached but also in the kingdome of vs ministers where the letter of the scripture is worsse wrested by vs to all errors and licentiousnes then euerie waxen nose was yet bended to diuerse fashions O ye senseles papists had you neuer a man of moderat iudgement to set forth against vs but this loosetongued Gentelman which so he maie raile with full mouth against vs hath no care how his slaunders maie be coloured Doe we peruert the scriptures to all errors then surelie we holde no trueth there neuer was anie heresie neither can there be anie heresie but that with manie errors it maintaineth and holdeth manie truethes Yea the Deuill him-selfe the father oflies beleeueth some truethes and for shame dare not professe the maintenance of all errors We thinke verie hardlie of Antichrist and his brood the papists yet we maie not saie that they wrest the scriptures to all errors and licentiousnes for if they so did they should not deceaue so manie by shew of trueth in errors except they did professe some articles of trueth in deede As for the wresting of the Scripture to all licentiousnes let God and all the world of reasonable and indifferent men iudge how iustlie we maie be charged therewith If we be licentious in our liues God will finde it out and let man where he findeth it punish vs. But if we wilfully peruert the scriptures to the maintenance of all licentiousnes the Lord reward vs according to our deedes and be not mercifull to them that sinne of malicious wickednes But it is no fault in the scriptures saie you that they may be abused For Christ him-selfe was called the rocke of offence and the stone of scandall not for anie faulte or imperfection in him but through the wickednes of such as abuse that benefit So if the Iesuites had said no more but that the scripture maie be abused no man could haue found fault with them And Christ is called a stone of offence or stumbling not altogether in respect of the wicked that abuse him for he is called a stone moste precious and necessarie to build vpon of stumbling to those that refuse to build vpon him which meeting with him must either stumble and fall or els if it fall vpon them they must be ground to pouder But the the scripture is compared to a nose os wax because it is in their imagination that vse the comparison as pliant to follow euerie waie and to yeald as probable a sence one waie as an other as
of his manhood thus he saith Quòd vnctio sit secundúm humanitatem nemo qui rectè sapere solet dubitabit quia absque omni controuersia minus à maiore benedicitur That the annointing of Christ should be meant of his humanitie no man doubteth that is of anie right vnderstanding For without all controuersie the inferiour and lesse euer receiueth blessing of the superiour and greater There can be no question then but all soueraigntie and supreme iurisdiction which he exercised ouer the Church being his bodie and spouse in that respect that he was either Priest and Bishop of our soules as Saint Peter calleth him or els as he was out head and pastour it is certaine that all this came vnto him by his fathers sending and the vnction of the holie Ghost and the benediction of the holie Trinitie to which he was inferiour accor ding to his manhood FVLKE That our sauiour Christ by his vnction receaued no gift or blessing of God but in respect of his humanitie it is more cleere then it needed to haue beene declared by the testimonies of Hilarius and Cyrillus but that all soueraigntie and supreame inrisdiction which he exercised ouer the Church in respect that he was Priest and Bishop of our soules or as he was our head and Pastor came onelie to his manhoode as Allen maketh it certaine it is vtterlie false and blasphemous against his godheade For vnto all soueraigntie and authoritie he hath full right in respect of his diuinitie and therefore the Apostle Heb. 3. 5. c. saith that Moses was faithfull in Godds house as a seruant but Christ as the sonne ouer his owne house which was builded by himselfe as God which hath made all thinges For what cause Allen speaking of the soueraigntie of Christ ouer his Church vseth the time past saying he was our Priest and Bishop he was our head and pastour it is easie to gesse seeing he laboureth to establish such a soueraigntie and supreme iurisdiction on earth as is derogatorie to the high authoritie of Christ in heauen But the scripture teacheth vs that he is an eternall Priest Heb. 7. 9. c. that he is the shepheard and Bishop of our soules 1. Peter 2. that he is and shall be to the end of the world the heade of his Church Eph. 1 ALLEN If thou doubt of his Priesthood in this case heare Theodoretus Christus autem quód ad humanitatem quidem attinet Sacerdos appellatus est non aliam autem hostiam quám suum corpus obtulit Christ saith he touching his humanitie was called a Priest and he offered no other hoste but his owne bodie But we maie haue more forcible testimonie hereof in Saint Paull him selfe who in sundrie other places that are knowen professeth euerie Bishop to be elected and chosen out among a number of men to offer sacrifice for sinne And that he is made the supreame gouernour head of the Church in his humanitie yea and in respect thereof is appointed to be the high minister of God the father in pardoning or iudgeing the world it is an assured ground of our faith approued not onelie by the consent of all Doctors but also by the Scriptures euerie where protesting that all power in heauen and earth is giuen to Christ in so much that the Apostle calleth him the man in quo viro statuit iudicare orbem tetratum In which or by which appointed man he will iudge the world All these thinges though they maie seeme to the simple to be farre from the matter yet they be both neare our purpose and necessarie to be laied vp in memorie for the further establishing of our faith in the Article proposed and diuerse other profitable pointes of Christian beliefe now impugned FVLKE We doubt not that Christ was a Priest as touching his humanitie as Theodoret saith but we beleeue that he was a Priest as he was the mediator God and man Fot as some ministeriall partes of that office did require that he should be a man áccording to which nature he might be subiect so other parts of the same office required the authoritie of God For none but God hath authoritie to reconcile man and to bring him into the holiest place into the presence and sight of God whereunto he hath full right of his owne nature and dignitie The forcible testimonies that Master Allen citeth out of the Apostle Heb. 5. 9. haue no force to prooue that Christ is not a Priest as he is God and man although they prooue that he is a Priest as he is man But contrariwise if these scriptures be well marked which the Apostle doth alledge out of the second Psalme Thou art my sonne this daie haue I begotten the and out of the 110. psalme thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchiseà ech they will make euident proofe vnto vs that Christ not onelie in respect of his humanitie but also in respect of his deitie is our eternall high Priest as he is our sauiour our mediator our redeemer as in other places the Apostle sheweth more plainlie and I haue argued purposelie and plentifullie against the slaunderous note of the Rhemistes in my confutation of the Papistes quarreils against my writings pag 64. vnto the end whereunto I referre the reader for more full satisfaction That Christ in his humanitie is made the supreame gouernor and head of his Church we do constantlie bleeue but that he hath this excellent authoritie in respect of his humanitie alone and not in respect of his diuinitie we can not acknowledge For in respect of his diuinitie his person is capable of all honour glorie power and authoritie which in the onelie respect of his humanitie it were not That he is appointed to iudge the world also in his humanitie we confesse according to the scriptures but seeing I haue prooued before that to be iudge of the world is proper to the deitie we must needes confesse that the man Iesus Christ is appointed to be iudge of the quick and the dead not onely as an high minister deputed of God in respect of his humanitie but as God him-selfe of supreame authority in respect of his diuinitie For to holde that Christ is no otherwise iudge of the world but as an high minister as kings and Princes are iudges of the earth as high ministers by deputation onelie of Gods authoritie committed to them and not by right of their nature I see not how it can be excused from grosse Nestorianisme The scriptures which protest that all power in heauen and earth is geuen to Christ are to be vnderstood in deede of the exaltation of his humanitie and crowning of his manhood with glorie and maiestie but thereof it followeth not that Christ enioyeth all that power that is giuen to him by the onelie right of his humanitie For except Christ were God as verilie as he is man he were not able to receiue such a gift which no
is affirmed Where you quote Damascene I finde in him nothing for nor any thing sounding that waie in the place by you noted But in the tenth Chapter where he speaketh of eight kindes of baptisme the fifte he maketh Baptisme by the holie ghost and fire Which may be saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a punishing Baptisme because of the fire to come immediatelie followeth the sixth kinde of baptisme which is verie painfall by repentance and teares So that the one beeing distinct by the author from the other I know not by what learning you doe confound to make it seeme as both were one ALLEN Neither may we thinke that this authoritie and approoued power of priests concerneth onelie the open offences which by witnesse and proofe may be conuinced and deferred to the publike Magistrates of the Church as some Protestantes confounding all places of like wordes and tearmes in scripture doe Wherein they consider not that the perfectnesse of the Gospell teacheth man willinglie to accuse condemne and iudge himselfe that he be not iudged of our Lorde Neither doe they weigh that this iudgement of our sinnes though it be ministred by man is yet the seate and court of Christ to whome it no lesse perteineth to binde and loose our secret sinnes then our open offences And he without exception committed remission of all manner of sinnes vnto the Apostles and priestes saying Like as my father sent me so doe I send you But Christ was sent to heale the contrite and sorowfull of al sinnes priuate and publike therefore al manner of offences be they neuer so secret belong to the priests not onelie pardon but also correction and punishment whereof because they be men they cannot iustlie discerne or determine to remit or reteine giue pardon or giue penance except they be confessed by the parties penitent Christ him selfe perfectlie seeing all diseases both of bodie and soule the inwarde sorow and sute of euerie mans heart yet saied to the sicke man blinde Quid vis faciam 〈◊〉 what wouldest thou haue at my hands And shal the priest being a mortall man take vpon him to giue sentence of the diseases of our soules before he knowe them or pardō him that wil not shew vnto him wherein for what sin he asketh a pardō Furthermore the sins of mans cogitation that cannot be discerned by the priest with out the confession of the partie be often no lesse greeuous dānable before God then the open offences therefore there may be no doubt but Christ hath ordeined mercie as well for them as other that be actuallie committed and subiect to the sight of the world but yet no otherwise but by the sacramēt of penance in which without exception the priests haue power to remit or reteine sinnes as well priuate as publike Therefore the same secret sinnes beeing subiect to the Churches iudgement no lesse then the open they must needes be vttered and confessed or els they cannot be realesed much lesse haue any enioyned penance for them But it is mecre wrangling of our aduersaries in so plaine a case follie in all other to doubt whether secret offences euen committed in thought onelie against the last two commaundements forbiding vnlawfull coueting and desires of the minde be properly subiect to the Priests iudgement seeing they can by no otherwise be released but in the sacrament of penance sincere confession of them For here is practized a iudgement not of ciuile Magistrates which onelie punish by laws of all nations actually committed faultes against the weale publike but of soule and conscience which properly pertaine to the cure of Priestes as they properly occupie Christes owne roome to whose pardon and punishment not onelie open sinnes but also priuate offences either in deede or thought committed doe in like perteine For external penance or publike is rather vsed to satisfie the Church of her right in which sinnes can not openlie be committed but to the great offence of her children and therefore must in her by publike penance be corrected for the example of discipline and prouiso of the like sinnes to come FVLKE I knowe no Protestantes neither I suppose you can name anie writer of them that doth think that the authoritie of sorgiuing and retaining sinnes concerneth onelie open offences and not secret But it maie be that some protestantes haue written as all I think do holde and you your selfe in the end of this section do acknowledge that open confession is most conuenient fot the satisfaction of the Church which is offended where and by whome open and notorious sinnes haue beene committed But that secret confession made to a priest is necessarie for the discharge of secret sinnes all Protestants denie neither can anie Papistes prooue it For such reasons as you bring are verie weake and friuolous The perfectnes of the Gospell teacheth man willinglie to accuse condemne and iudge himselfe that he be not iudged of our Lord Ergo he is bound to shriue him-selfe to a Priest Nay contrariewise if he be made accuser condemner and iudge of himselfe he neede not seeke anie other externall iudge but in his owne conscience accuse examine condemne and iudge him-selfe before God And this court of conscience we acknowledge to be the seat and court of Christ where no priest or other mortal man hath authoritie to sit and iudge Neither doth anie correction punishment of our sins belong to priestes by reason that Christ sent the Apostles and their successours to Preach as he was sent by his father but they may remit or retaine sinnes without hearing the particuler confession of euerie sinner by declaring the mercie of God to all that repent and his iustice to all that continue in sinne without repentance But it is a maruetlous strong argument Iweene to prooue the necessitie of confession because our sauiour Christ caused the blinde man by vttering his request in particuler to declare his faith Nay if he had caused all them whose sinnes he pronounced to be forgiuen first to make particuler confession vnto him it had beene more coloure and yet no sufficient argument to prooue the necessity of confession to be made vnto other men much lesse that he would haue the blind mā acknowledge that he beleeued that he was able to giue him sight wherfore vpon a Principle shamefully begged that confession to a priest is necessary you go about to proue that confessiō of secret faults and cogitations of mans heart is also to be made to a priest you accuse your aduersaries of wrangling in so plaine a case and all men of follie that doubt whether such secret offences be subiect to the Priestes iudgement seeing they can not otherwise be released but in the sacrament of penance and sincere confession of them but which of your aduersaries will graunt that they can not otherwise be released or how will you satisfie them that doubt out of the holie scriptures of the institution of
from the paine and from the fault some plenarie of al their sinnes some partial of part of their sins some for a number of daies some for many thousands of yeares which euery one that paieth mony for them shall haue the benefit of them or which he giueth to such an hospitall gylde or brotherhoode or to him which saith such a praier or goeth on such a pilgri mage such like wherunto may be added his dispensations absolutiós exemptions lycenses these are the popes pardons of which the controuersy is between vs of which he cānot prooue that there was either vse or approbation no not in the Church of Rome for a wholl 1000. yeares after Christ. And these when he hath saied as much as he hath learned to saie for them out of the decretalls Clementines and Extrauagants you shall finde to be by his their owne determination nothing ells but as they are called in Latine Bullae Bubles great in appeerance but altogether emptie and voide of profit The attention of the gentle reader I do likewise require beccause he may see what good occasion Luther had to seperate himselfe from the Popish Church as from the whore of Babylon which so obstinately defended such abhominable blasphemies which all wise and reasonable men haue either abhorred or as he confesseth beene offended at them And yet let the reader marke how boldlie he calleth this article of the popes pardons an article of Christian faith whereof the Church of god neuer heard for a thousand yeares more since Christs assension before the loosing of Satā out of the bottomles pit when Antichrist was bolde to set abroad al his impieties and to sit not in a mysterie of iniquitie but openlie in the sight of al men in the temple of God and to exalt him-selfe aboue all that is called God or worshiped ALLEN And to be plaine in the matter where sinceritie is moste required two causes mooued me to beleeue like and allow of the power of pardons and indulgencies long before I either knew the commodities of them or had sought out the ground and meaning of them The first was the Churches authoritie which I credited in all other articles before I knew any of them or could by reason or scripture mainteine them Whose iudgement to follow by my Christian profession in all other pointes and to forsake in this one of Popes pardons had beene meere follie and a signe of phantasticall choise of things indifferent which is the proper passion of heresie Neither did I then know that the Church of Christ had allowed such thinges because I had read the determination of any generall Councells or decrees of some chiefe gouernours of the saide Church touching such pardons or because I had by histories and note of diuerse ages seene the practize of the faithfull people herein by which waies her meaning of doubtfull things is most assuredlie knowne but onelie I deemed that the Church allowed them and misliked the contrarie because such as bare the name of Christian folke and Catholike did approoue them and sometimes lamented the lacke of them And surelie for an vnlearned man I count it the briefest rule in the worlde to keepe him selfe both in faith and conuersation euer with that companie which by the generall and common calling of the people be named Catholikes For that name kept Saint Augustine himselfe in the trueth and true Church much more it may doe the simple sorte who is not hable to stande with an heretike that will challenge the Church to himselfe by Sophisticall reasons from the Christians that for lacke of learning can not answere him Well this companie of Catholikes brought me to know the Church and my creede caused me to beleeue the Church no lesse concerning the Popes Pardons then any other article of our Christian profession which though it were not of like weight yet it was to me of like trueth and all in like vnknowne at that time FVLKE Your pretence of plainnes sinceritie is but craft and sub tiltie to deceiue the simple and ignorant that they might please themselues in their blindenes and by your example thinke themselues at ease in their ignorance For what reasonable man will be perswaded that you could beleeue like and allow that thing whereof you know no vse nor whence it came or what it meaned But here you shew what faith is accounted among the Papists a fond perswasion of any thing that is tolde them by their teachers although they neither knowe what commoditie it bringeth nor what ground of trueth it hath nor finallie what it meaneth But howsoeuer it was two causes mooued you whereof you professe that hearing of the worde of God was neither The first was the Churches authoritie which you credited in all other articles before you knew any of them or could by reason or scripture mainteine them So by your owne confession you did as many papists doe beleeue you knew not what which faith would neuer bring you to eternall life which consisteth in knowledge of God and Iesus Christ according to that which is writen that wee might beleeue and be saued But seeing you could neither by reason nor by scripture mainteine those articles to be true which you beleeued how could you be perswaded that this companie was the Church of Christ the piller of trueth rather then the Church of Antichrist the mother of heresies and errors For all swarmes of heretikes challenge vnto themselues the name of the Church and require credit to be giuen vnto them and the more heretikes the lesse care they haue to make any triall of their doctrine to be trueth what had you more to perswade your conscience that you were in the right waie then a lew or a Turke hath which crediteth the companie amongst whome he is bred and borne without examining by reason or the scripture whether those thinges which they teach them be the trueth or no But it had beene a signe of phantasticall choyce of thinges indifferent you saie which is the proper passion of heresie to follow the Churches iudgement in all other points and to forsake it in this one of Popes Pardons Where you saie the phantasticall choice of things indifferent is the proper passion of heresie I know not what you meane except you thinke that heretikes are deceiued onelie in the choise of thinges indifferent or that whosoeuer maketh some phantastical choise of thinges indifferent is an heretike neither of which opinions I trowe you are able to mainteine For though some heretikes make a phantasticall choise of thinges indifferent I suppose it is not proper onelie to heretikes for some schismatikes that be not heretikes make such a phantasticall choise and the phantastical choise of heretikes is most occupied about principall groundes and articles of faith not about thinges indifferent onelie Moreouer I would know whether you account the Popes pardons to be things indifferent or necessarie for the Church for if
the Doctors The schoolemen in deede be authors of that double keie you speake of namelie the keie of iurisdiction or gouernment and the key of order But the auncient Doctors knew no such distinction The keies of power or auctoritie the keie of knowledge the Scripture speaketh of and so doe the auncient doctors How be it euen as your fathers the Scribes Pharises lawier did take away the keies of knowledge and shut vp the kingdom of heauen from men neither entring in them selues nor suffering other that would so do you for you haue taken away the key of knowledge of the Scriptures by which as Chrysostome saith in opere imperfecto the kingdom of heauen is opened in steed thereof forged a key of straunge and tyrannicall iurisdiction which neither Christ nor Peter nor any of his godly successors did know or exercise This ancient writers words are these Regnum coelorum est beatitudo coelestis ianua autem etus est Scriptura per quam introitur ad eam Clauicularij autem sunt Sacerdotes quibus creditum est verbum dicendi interpretandi Scripturas Clauis autem est verbum scientiae Scripturarum per quam aperitur hominibus ianua veritatis Adapertio autem est interpretatio vera The kingdome of heauen is the heauenly blessednes the gate thereof is the Scripture by which men goe into it the key-keepers are the priests to whome is committed the word of preaching and interpreting the Scriptures And the key is the word of the knowledg of the Scriptures by which the gate of truth is opened vnto men The opening is the true interpretation of the scriptures These two keies of authoritie and knowledge will make a sufficient minister of the Gospell that is able to open and shut binde and loose forgiue and retaine sinnes and where these want or either of them there can be no good minister of Christ to open the kingdome of heauen that men maie enter therein But now let vs see the reason you giue why you attribute more power to a simple priest in remitting of mortal sinnes in shrift then to the Popes high iurisdiction by pardons The cause is saie you that the effect of remission of sinnes proceedeth from Christ more abundantlie in the grace of sacraments then by the high iurisdiction without the sacraments This is nakedlie affirmed without anie proofe in the world as other positions before and after But in deed there is no reason that the effect of remission of sinnes shoud proceede more large from the sacrament of penance as you call it then from the iurisdiction of the Pope if it had the same foundation which you would beare men in hand it hath For if Peters and the Popes iurisdiction be builded vpon Tu es Petrus and to thee I will giue the keies and what soeuer thou bindest or loosest shall be bound in heauen c. Why should not all mortall sinnes be subiect to his iurisdiction as well as to the priestes power in penance The wordes be as ample to Peter Math. 16. as to the Apostles Ioh. 20. If Peters key of iurisdiction papall be not grounded vpon this text as you aduouched lib. 1. cap. 4. Sect. 7. tell vs where he hath it anie where els committed vnto him If it be committed by this text certainlie the key of iurisdiction is as large as the key of orders Therfore either he forgiueth mortall sinnes by his iurisdiction or els his iurisdiction is no greater then anie other mans that hath anie key committed vnto him ALLEN There is another key of Regiment and rule of the Church or some principall portion thereof which is called the key or power of iurisdiction Now by this power of regiment and rule as no man can take vpon him to consecrate so no man out of the sacrament of penance can take vpon him to absolue anie man of deadlie sinnes and damnation due therefore For though some do thinke that Saint Paull did absolue the incestuous Corinthian both of his sinne and damnation with all temporall punishment due therefore after assured repentance of the partie out of the sacrament of penance yet I cannot agree in anie case thereunto because the sacrament of confession hath euer beene of necessitie since Christes institution thereof and because the remission of sinnes is so proper a worke vnto God that no creature could euer worke the same absolutelie without sacramēt sauing only the humanitie of Christ to which the acts of diuinity as being vnited to the godhead were communicated vpon which it is certaine that Christ our sauiour might remit sinnes absolutelie out of all externall sacraments by his word and will onelie which beeing the power of excellencie was as Diuines do thinke communicated to no other creature in what iurisdiction or preheminence soeuer he should be placed and in the act of absolution remission of sinnes proceedeth ioyntlie from that one excellent person beeing both God and man Neither is it to be thought that Saint Paull did pardon the foresaid Penitent anie other waies then by the handes of the ministers and Priestes of the Corinthian Church For though the confession and penance of the partie were publike as the sinne it selfe was open yet the vsage of the Apostie and open practize of the Corinthian Church towards him was no lesse a sacrament then then it is now beeing secret Therefore I doubt not but Saint Paull spake especiallie to the Priestes of the Corinthians when he willed them to confirme their charitie towards the sinner and to forgiue him by their ministerie whome he thought in absence worthie to receiue the grace and pardon at their handes whereof we shall speake more hereafter in place conuenient We do not then exalte the Pope or Bishops in this case anie thing so farre as heresie seemeth or the simplicity of manie men conceiueth whereas they maie wel vnderstand that we giue more authoritie to the most simple Priest aliue in respect of his order and because of the sacrament by which he worketh then to the Pope or highest Potentate in the world considering but onelie his iurisdiction And therfore Saint Peter him self who receiued both the keies as also other Apostles and Bishops hauing as well the keie or power of Orders as the keie of iurisdiction and regiment of their subiects maie do the actes of both the keies that is to saie maie as well lawfullie minister sacraments of all sortes as also exercise iurisdiction vpon their subiects in such thinges as we hereafter shall declare But out of the sacraments onelie by the vertue of their iurisdiction to absolue men of mortall sinnes though they be subiect vnto them they can not nor as I think euer Pope or Prelace tooke vpon him anie such preheminence And therefore let this be the first point of our consideration that the Popes Pardons or Indulgences which he giueth in respect of his iurisdiction which also as moste men do thinke he might giue when he
from part of his sinne and bound in the other part but he that forgiueth the guilt and faulte of sinne which the Prophet calleth iniquitatem peccati he releaseth no daies or yeares but he forgiueth the verie fault it selfe Neither is there any eternall punishment which can be eased by any number of daies were they neuer so many Take you from an infinite and endlesse thing how much you list and it shal be eternall still Then it is onelie temporal punishment which before God and the world is limited by certaine proportion of the wickednes committed and of that satisfaction which gods iustice requireth at the partie penitent which can be released by daies or yeares in part or in whol And therefore the Popes or Bishops Pardons onelie forgiue temporall punishment enioyned or at the left due for answere of Gods righteousnes to be enioyned Wherein also the Magistrates of the Church haue such care and consideration that they remit not so much as any one daie of enioyned penance or deserued punishment but by recompence of the lacke of mans satisfying with some portion of Christes abundant desertes applied by the vse of their keies to the reliefe of such as doe lacke and for their zeale and deuotion are not worthie to receiue benefit by the singular treasure of the common wealth to helpe them in their priuate neede But for this matter looke for more toward the end of the booke FVLKE This first reason is verie feeble some pardons haue this clause de poenitentys iniunctis of penance inioyned therfore in al other pardons in which is expresse mention not onelie of penance inioyned but also of pardoning of sins either al or some part of them the temporall punishment onely is meant to be pardoned The second reason is as good Sinne is vndiuisible and so is the punishment for sinne and eternall therefore it is onelie temporall punishment which is released by daies and yeares But what saie you then to moste full pardons of all sinne and all punishments where there is no limitation of daies nor yeares what saie you to the release of the third part or the seuenth part of all sinnes beside many thousand yeares of punishment remitted as I haue shewed before in the Pardons of Alexander the fourth confirmed by Pope Leo the tenth within these eightie yeares The third argument is that the magistrates of the Church remit not so much as one daie of punishment due to Gods iustice for sinne but by recompensing the want of mans satisfaction with some portion of Christs abundant desertes applied by the vse of the keies c. But what intollerable blasphemie is this to applie the merites of Christ but onelie in defaulte of mans satisfaction whose bloode is the onelie purgation of our sinnes whose righteousnes is the wholl propitiation for our iniquities whose redemption by his death purchased is eternall for all them that are sanctified Againe what an horrible blasphemie is it to make a marchandise of the merites of Christ our sauiour as the Pope doth in the saile of his pardons And finallie what scripture giueth anie dispensation of Christes merites vnto anie mortall man and lest of all to the Pope the man of sin if it be lawful thus to imagine implie applie forge and faine without al ground of the holie scriptures religion shal be nothing but as it pleaseth men to make it as it is plaine in the Popish synagogue ALLEN And now vpon the fore said declaration let this be as it were agreed vpon and let the aduersaries well vnderstand this to be the meaning of the Catholike Church that an Indulgence or pardon is nothing els but a remission in parte or in whole of the bond of that punishment which is enioyned or deserued after the mortall sinnes be remitted Gods iustice being otherwise for the said sinnes recompensed by the common treasure of Christ and his Saints satisfaction which is applied vnto the parties vse by the keis of iurisdiction graunted to such as Christ made the Stewards of his household the disposers of his mysteries For the Church of God and her Pastours though they be mercifull inclining to remission rather then rigour yet they take not vpon them neither in the sacrament of penance to remit sinne and damnation neither out of the sacrament to release anie paine or parte of punishment enioyned without recompence thereof by Christes copious redemption and the communion of holie workes that is betwixt the head and members of this mysticali bodie of Christ. FVLKE So often as you repeat this vntrueth so often it must be tolde you that it is false that the popes pardon by the meaning of the giuer and receiuers is nothing els but a remission of punishment enioyned or deserued after mortall sinnes be remitted when it is expressed in the same that it is either for all sinnes at well as paines or els for some parte of the sinnes as well as some part of the vaines except you will accuse the Pope of manifest falsehoode and cosonage to promise that which he meaneth not to giue and wotteth well is not in his power to giue Againe where you saie that Gods iustice is otherwise recompensed we know his iustice is throughlie satisfied by the obedience and suffering of Christ as wel for al our sinnes as for the punishment due for the same therefore your Popes pardons are needles where God forgiueth our sinnes iustifieth vs freely for Christes sake But where you ioyne the satisfaction of saints vnto the common treasure of Christ it is exceeding blasphemous against the sufficiency of his satisfaction and the grace of Gods free iustification For all haue sinned and are destitute of the glorie of God beeing freelie iustisied by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Iesus whome God hath set forth to be a propitiation by saith in his blood But admit all these lies and blasphemies hetherto aduouched were graunted who gaue the Pope authoritie to applie the same by the key of iurisdiction How prooue you the key of iurisdiction to extend so farre For the keies of the kingdome of heauen whatsoeuer they are be committed to the wholl Church and not to one person onelie as Cyprian Augustine Chrysostome Ierome and all the auncient Doctors agreablie to the scriptures do confesse And God hath made all the Pastors of the Church stewardes of his household and dispensers of his mysteries And if euerie Pastour ouer his charge be a steward and dispenser of Gods mysteries as you seem to graunt why hath he not authoritie to release the penance by him-selfe inioyned or the punishment due for sinne remitted as well as the Bishop or the Pope Why hath he not the key of iurisdiction ouer his parish in as large and ample manner as the Bishop hath ouer his dioces or the Pope ouer all men seeing the keies are not giuen to one but to the vnitie as the auncient fathers teach Whie should the Bishop
had expresselie forgiuen him by the warrant of the Prophet Nathan his greeuous sinnes Consider the case of all Gods elect people how sharpelie they were visited for sinne after it was in them pardoned Marke whether Marie Moises his sister was not punished and separated seuen daies as it were for penance after her brethren had procured her pardon at Gods handes Thus hath God of respect not onelie to mercie but also partlie to iustice so alwaies pardoned that he had consideration of iudgement and righteousnes Now whome should the Church follow in remitting of sinnes but him by whofe power and warrant she doth remit sinnes FVLKE We see that god did chastise the Prophet Dauid and his posterititie with a rodde of man and with a fatherlie correction but his mercie and louing kindnes he neuer tooke from them Neither punished them to satisfie his iustice for their sinne remitted but to make them and other by their example more carefull not to commit sinne in time to come The case of Gods elect people was somewhat otherwise Exod. 32. where although he receiued to mercie the wholl people that they should not be destroied from the face of the earth yet he might of his iustice punish a number of particular persons that were moste rebellious and authors of the defection and Idolatrie Marie the sister of Moses was also punished of God first to humble her and bring her to repentance and that punishment was continued on her for a few daies partlie to exercise her in earnest and hartie repentance partlie to admonish the people by her example to beware of murmuring against Gods ministers their lawfull magistrates not in respect of anie satisfaction of Gods iustice which can receiue none but a ful sufficient satisfaction in his beloued sonne Iesus Christ. Wherefore if the Church will follow God in remission of sinnes she must remit them freelie as God doth in Iesus Christ forgiue vs for so Saint Paull meaneth that men should forgiue one another their trespasses and not to remit the fault and retaine the paine except it be in case where men are appointed by God to execute paines as the Magistrates are or to practize discipline as the Church is in which case the Church may not think to satisfy Gods iustice but to seek reformation of the offender and to prouide for the example of others ALLEN Seeing God then him-selfe after he hath by his owne means and absolute power pardoned mans faultes and discharged him of the sentence of death and damnation had yet enioyned penance as when he said to Adam In the sweate of thy browes thou shalt prouide for thy liuing And to Eue. Thou shalt in paine bring forth thy Children And to them both that they should die the temporall death though they might escape by his mercie euerlasting miserie seeing this we neede not to doubt but temporall punishment often remaineth after the sinnes be remitted and that the Church of God doth imitate moste conuenientlie the saied mercie enioyned with iustice in all her most righteous practize of pardoning and punishing sinne in Christes behalfe by whose iurisdiction she herein holdeth But for the further proofe of the matter I haue saide much in the defense of Purgatotie and this question properlie of Purgatotie and this question properlie perteineth to 〈◊〉 place FVLKE That temporall punishment is laied vpon men often times although their sinnes be remitted it is no question but whether such punishment be a satisfaction to the iustice of God or a fatherlie discipline of his mercie that is the matter in controuersie The Church therefore in exercising the discipline of God vpon offendours may and ought to imitate the example of god but then shee must beware of two things the one that she laie no other burthen of punishment vpon the offendours then the worde of God will warrant therefore penance is not arbitrarie as the Canonists doe saie but to be directed by the worde of God Secondlie shee must take heede that shee release no more punishment then shee is able to laie on And therefore shee must be assured by the worde of God whether shee can eioyne penance to be suffered in Purgatorie before shee take vpon her to remit any such punishment touching which matter as you haue saied more in the defence of Purgatorie so haue I answered sufficientlie to the ouerthrow of Purgatorie and all that dependeth thereupon That Christ gaue by his expresse worde authoritie to the pastours of Gods Church to binde and loose not onely the sinnes themselues but also the temporall paine or penance remaining THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN BVt now for the iurisdiction that Gods Church hath in releasing the same punishment which remaineth after the fault be forgiuen it standeth no doubt vpon that high commission which Christ receiued of his Father and did communicate moste amplie to the Apostles and by then to all Bishops for euer For the father did not onelie honour Christ his sonne according to his humanity with the power of priesthoode or with other soueraignitic for the institutious of sacraments or such like but with all regiment of that bodie whereof he is the heads as he is man By which keye of iurisdiction he corrected sinners with great Maiestie and pardoned them at his pleasure not onelie of sinne and euerlasting paine where the penitencie of the partie did so require but also of such correction as the law had prescribed for sinne or Gods iustice had enioyned for the same FVLKE That the Church hath any iurisdiction in releasing that punishment which remaineth after the faulte for giuen for a satisfaction of Gods iustice it hath not hetherto beene prooued nor euer shall be prooued by authoritie of the holie scriptures which teach the contrarie that Christ alone hath by his one sacrifice made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And therefore it is vnreasonable to seeke whereupon it standeth For neither did Christ receiue any such commission in his humanitie neither did he deliuer ouer any such iurisdiction vnto his Apostles to release temporall punishment due to Gods iustice vnsatisfied by his death and passion For by one oblation once offered by his eternall spirit he made perfect for euer those that are sanctified And the power of Priesthoode and soueraigne authoritie to institute sacraments and to be head of his Church he receiued not as man onelie but as our mediatour God and man The Lorde said vnto my Lorde saith Dauid sit thou on my right hand Thou art a Priest for euer c. Which offices authorities can not beseparated from his diuinity without Nestorian impiety Christ is head of his Church a Priest for euer as he is Dauids Lord but as he is Dauids Lord he is not onelie his sonne but his God therefore he is heade of his Church and a priest after the order of Melchisedeeh not as he is man onelie but as he is God man neither did he pardon any
lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life and therefore that Purgatorie bindeth no man but in respect of satisfying Gods iustice which was not answered here before either by our selues or by the Churches correction and enioyned penance FVLKE The cause you confesse to be waightie that the gouernours of the Church should release that paine which Gods hand hath laid vpon the offender for his temporall correction and therefore you must stand vpon it but as long as you stand you bring neither authoritie of scripture testimonie of antiquitie reasonable argument or sensible experience For first the ground of al your disputation is vtterlie false that God punisheth for sinnes remitted to satisfie his iustice And therefore though I graunt your first consideration which is that God punisheth vs for sinne the more because we punish not our selues yet I may not graunt your conclusion the argument whereof is nothing but your asseueration if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisfieth Gods righteousnes For no punishing or suffering of punishment can satisfie Gods iustice or anie part thereof but the punishment suffered by Christ who was beaten for our faults and striken for our offences and therefore his suffering is a full satisfaction for our vnrighteousnes Neither doth Saint Paull speak of anie discipline in the life to come when he exhorteth vs to iudge ourselues but sheweth that the punishment or iudgement which God executeth in this world vpon his children is a cha stisment that we be not condemned with the world as they that neither by doctrine nor by punishment are brought to repentance your next conclusion is that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him selfe doth not binde man but for lack of necessarie discipline to be taken in this life But this conclusion you your selfe do afterward denie when you affirme that bodelie punishment commeth vpon men for manie other causes then for correction for sinne onelie or a purgation of a mans life past Finallie if purgatorie do binde no man but in respect of satisfying gods iustice so long as it is certaine that Gods iustice is satisfied toward al his elect in the death and obedience of Christ it is out of doubt that purgacorie hath nothing to do with anie of Gods elect to whome Christ is giuen of his father to be wisdome righteousnes holines and redemption that as it is written he that reioyceth maie reioyce in the Lord. ALLEN Consider secondlie that he thatfully is discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life whether it be iust accomplishing of his due aud deserued penance or by remission of Gods Church and answering otherwise his lack therein the same person must of necessitie be also charged of Purgatory and alpaine in this life which els God could haue enioyned for sinne because this debt of Purgatorie rose vnto the penitent for the answer of Gods iustice and lack of paiment in this life the which being discharged to the honour of God and the reliefe of the partie there remaineth no bond of paine to come For debt is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie and I speake rather of 〈◊〉 then of other painer enioyned by God in this life because that is euer appointed to man onelie as a recompence of Gods iustice and as due correction for sinne remitted when of all other paines in this world whether it be sicknes or death no man can assuredlie saie that this or that bodelie punishment came vpon anie man as a correction for his sinnes onelie or as a purgation of his life past For somtimes suchthings folow the necessary of our corrupted nature sometimes they be for our proofe and exercise and sometimes for other causes But those kindes of punishments which God laieth vpon man onelie for correction and satisfying for his sins neuer fal vpon him after he be either iudged by his owne teares or the Churches sufficient satisfaction enioyned or els vpon reasonable cause remitted The like afflictions maie continue in anie person after the bonde of them be remooued or maie be giuen afterward but for the satisfaction of his owne sinnes or anie debt proceeding thereof they be not because the debt is discharged in so much that I dare be bolde to saie if anie man were sick by Gods appointment for that cause onelie to satisfie for his sinnes remitted before in the sacrament that he should straight recouer vpon the discharge of the debt which he did owe to God for his iustice if that into mitie were for no other cause but that onelie as it maie be for manie mo wherof no man can casilie iudge FVLKE He that is fullie discharged of the bond of satisfaction in this life by free remission of his sinnes through the satisfaction of Iesus Christ must needes be dischar ged of Purgatorie except you will saie that accomplishing of penance and remission of the Church is of more force then the suffering of Christ and the remission of God For debt as you saie truelie is discharged properlie either by remitting it freelie or by paiment iustlie But God sorgiueth our sinnes freelie and Christ hath paied the redemption for them iustlie as all the scriptures do testifie Therefore there remaineth no bond of paine to come But now you render a reason why you speake of purgatorie rather then of other paines enioyned by God in this life And that is this that purgatorie is neuer suffered but sor satisfying for sinne onely where other paines of this life maie be for other causes Marke how this geare hangeth together First you haue no shew of proofe that there remaineth anie paine due to satisfie Gods iustice for sinnes remitted but the afflictions of this life and now you confesse that they maie be and often are for other causes How prooue you then that euer they be for this pretended cause namelie for satisfying of Gods iustice for sinnes remitted Well let that passe Seeing the afflictions of this life were brought to prooue that there be three diuerse waies of temporal punishment remaining after sinnes be remitted euerie of which waies maie in some cases be released in parte or in wholl by the Popes pardons how happeneth it that we can haue no experience of the Popes pardonsin releasing any man of the temporall afflictions of this life as sicknes imprisonment c You answer that these bodilie afflictions maie be for other causes so flie quite from your holde yet that you may stand in a corner pelt your enemies you turne again say that you dare be bold to say if any man were sick by gods appoint ment for that cause onely c. that he should straight waie recouer vpon the discharging of that debt which he did owe to gods iustice but a pardon wil discharge that debt therfore a pardō wil make him recouer This I confes is boldly said of you But where is the experience shew one man
first he saith though Kinges for light or no iust causes making warres are greatlie in fault yet the soldiours are excusable because they obeie lawfull authority But in these warres where no Magistrate biddeth them strike all are priuate men or rather all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and most cruel murtherers so with many needles words he runneth out into the common place of treasō rebelliō in which whatsoeuer cause be pre tended the war is vnlawful because it wanteth lawfull authority But such was not the cause of the protestāts warres in France where the King being vnder age and brought into captiuitie against his wil by a traitor by whōe also the edict made by the authority of the three estates of the Realme was violated witha moste barborous and cruel slaughter ofinnocent men being in exercise of their Religion as it was lawfull for them to doe by the Princes of his bloode and other nobles called also thereunto by the often letters of the Queene his mother to deliuer him and her from captiuitie was sought to be set at libertie his lawes to be obserued and the publike quiet of the realme to be restored and so Frarines question is answered whence came you who sent you by what authoritie doe you all these things The princes and noble men that ioyned in leagu to withstand the tirannie of the Guisians haue declared their commission in a publike instrument set forth to the vew of the world the copie of the Queene mothers letters are set forth in storie for euerie man to reede The originalles remaine with the prince of Condyes heires and haue beene seene of manie But what shall Guise answer if he be called to shew his commission by what authority he slew the poore people at Vassie by what authoritie he seased vpon the persons of the King and the Quene his mother against their willes as was manifest by the Queenes great pro testation against the violence and iniurie and the yong Kings teares By what authoritie he remooued them from the pallace of Fountaine de Bleu first vnto the prison of Melun castle and afterward to Paris a place indeed more meere for a King if the violence of the enemy had not made that also a prison For not somuch the place as the restraint of libertie maketh a prisoner It is certaine that Guyse had no commission no authoritie no lawfull power to doe these thinges nor whatsoeuer he did afterward abusing the name of the captiue King and the authoritie of the King of Nauarre contrarie to the edict and true meaning of them that laide gouernment vpon him As for Beza and the ministers of the reformed Church whome he faineth to haue beene dombe when they were demaunded by the Cardinall of Lorraine in the assemblie at Poysie answered for their vocation first to the Sorbonist Espensius who proponed those questions that they were lawfullie called and approoued in the Churches where they serued And the next daie more at large to the shame and confusion of the Popish cleargie and their vnlawfull and simoniacall vocation contrarie both to the olde Canons of the Church and to the authoritie of the holie scriptures declaring also that as the ceremonie of imposition of handes by the ordinaries as they call them is not allwaies needfull in an extraordinarie calling So miracles are not alwaies necessarie to approoue an extraordinary vocation as the examples of Esay Zacharie Amos and others of the Prophets declareth But Martin Luther whome Frarine maketh our chiefe Apostle and patriarch he taketh vpon him to know verie well what he was whence he came and what authoritie he had First his name was not Luther but Luder which signifieth a slaue or knaue but that for shame he changed that filthie name of his He would make vs beleeue that he was driuen to do the same that Pope Os porci or Hogges snowte did which turned his name to Sergius of whome all Popes since saue one haue taken the custome to chaunge there names which thing if Luther had done he had done no worse thē the pope had giuē him example to do It is a folish quarrel that is picked against a mans name which he hath receiued of his elders although the name of Luther being of honest signification needed no such change for who will thinke that Luther knewe not his owne name as well as Frarine But it it is a greater matter that he was begotten of a spirit Incubus as the common report goeth saith Frarine For that he was borne at Islebium in Saxonie I trust it is no reproch to him more thē for Frarine to be borne at Antwerpe in Brabant But is Frarine such a great philosopher to beleeue the common report of Luthers conception by a spirit Incubus which is impossible And whoe should be the authors of such a report But such impudent wretches as shewed more malice then wit in deuising such a monstrous lie as neuer was nor euer could be And yet what papist is there of any acount which fauoreth not this foolish fable which although in their conscience they know it neither was nor can be true yet are not onelie content that it runne among fooles as a currant argument but also offer it in their writinges to the ignorant as a matter sufficient to discredit Luther and all his teaching But to proceed that he studied the ciuill law when he was yong that he was mooued to become an Augustine frier by terror of his companione slaine with thunder or lightning if it were neuer so true what needed it to be rehearsed seeing it maketh nothing to the lawfullnes of his calling or to the discredit of his doctrine But at last saith he he was made Doctor with shame enough for he came to that degree with the monie that was bequethed vnto an other man whom with the helpe of his prior he be guiled If Luther were not sufficientlie knowne to the world to haue beene excellentlie well learned he would insinuate thathe were like a doctor Bullatus which bought his doctorshippe of the Pope for mony But seeing for the solemnitie of that degree in schooles their is vsuall some expences he chargeth Luther at the least to haue come by that monie wrongfullie and as it were by theft They that write the storie of his life affirme that the Prince his soueraigne did beare the charges of his cōmencement And this slaunder of Frarine as it is void of profe so hath it not so much as anie likelie hood of truth For Luther being at that time a frier could possesse nothing in proper no more could anie other frier possesse anie monie that was bequeathed vnto them Now if the prior of the house did defraie the charges of Luthers commencement with the legacie that was giuen to anie other of his bretheren it was all one as if he had done it out of there common boxe for friers possesse nothing in proper but in cōmon the dispositiō wherof pertaineth to
be read of euerie man amonge you with your confutations And Doctor Windham then saide that no wise state would suffer it Neuerthe lesse our state God be thanked vpon conscience of trueth on our side hath with no lesse wisedome then good successe alwaies permitted your bookes with our answers to them to be read of all men to iudge indifferentlie so they conteine nothing but question of religion and not shamefull diffamations and inuectiues against the prince and the state of gouernement which matters deserue to be answered with an axe or an halter rather then with penne and paper But to permitte your bookes vnconfuted to haue free passage althoughe they passe with an hundred times lesse daunger then ours maie doe among you as you require it were neither wisedome godlines equitie nor reason AN OVERTHROVVE OF THE ANSVVERE TO Master Charkes preface touching Discerning of Spirites M. Chark beside the matter in question c. IF this answerer beside the matter in question had not made manie vnnecessarie and vnpertinent digressions the substance of his answere might haue bene contained almoste in as fewe lines as nowe it filleth leaues The triall of the Spirites which Saint Iohn requireth that is by the kinde of doctrine in teaching Christ and not the qualitie of the teachers Master Charke desireth the aduersaries refuse allowing nothing finallie but the onelie and falselie named title of the Catholike Church of Rome for them-selues and accusations of the persons some perhapes true some vtterlie false against vs. To this practize so manie popish treatises and this especiallie in hand doe giue testimonie This is the summe of Master Charkes preface Nowe commeth our answerer and because he had manie by-quarrels to deliuer he taketh occasion to vtter them in this place though litle or nothing pertaining to the direct confutation of Master Charkes preface First he chargeth Master Charke to saie that the Papists refuse Saint Iohns triall which is false for their bookes are extant wherebie they haue called to triall all sectaries of our time among whome he nameth Munster and Stancarus against whome I neuer heard what Papists haue exercised their style especiallie Stancarus holding one principle comming verie neare to their position of Christs priesthood to be onelie according to his manhood as Stancarus taught that Christ was a mediatour onelie after his humanitie but reade their bookes who shall and he must needes confesse Master Charkes saying to bee true For first or last they draw all triall to Rome and not to examine which doctrine giueth al glorie to God by Iesus Christ our onelie Sauiour which is the scope of Saint Iohns triall But if wee had not desired triall of Spirites saith he wee would not haue laboured so much to obteine the same of our aduersaries in free printing preaching or disputation You speake of great labor which none of vs euer heard that you tooke except it were in spreading a fewe coppies of Campians seditious libell not to the end of triall of spirites for discerning of trueth but to the stirring vp of mens bodies and mindes to treason and rebellion as the like labors by the like messengers tooke effect and make manifest demonstration in Ireland But if free printing preaching and disputation be a goodway for discerning of Spirites that Christ maie be knowne from Antichrist whie doe not you Papists graunt the same in Spaine Italie and other countreis thrall to the Popes tirannie yet assaulted by the doctrine of the gospell as by the power of Christ against Antichrist if it be not a good waie as it seemeth you thinke because you take it not your selues how can you saie that you require in those places this triall of spirites No no it is an other triall of the sharpest swordes that you meane when you require such triall of Spirites You adde further of the aduenturing of your liues in comming and offering the same to vs at home with so vnequall conditions on your side as you haue done and dailie doe for the triall of trueth There is no daunger of life among vs in offering the triall of Spirites according to Saint Iohns rule but in seeking to auerte the Queenes subiects from their duetifull obedience vnto her Maiestie to make a waie for the execution of the Popes moste blasphemous and traiterous Bull and this hath procured moste iuste and necessarie execution of some fewe of you and not as you slaunder iustice that offering to trie the truth hath obtained nothing hitherto but offence accusations extreame rackings and cruell death Againe these inequall conditions these daily offers these manie petitions and supplications that you speake of whoe hath made to whome haue they bene offered when were they presented where were they seene or heard by whome were they refused except Campians ridiculous challenge be all in all with you But what will a Papist spare to affirme that he maie make falsehood haue some likly shape of truth yet being admitted that you offer trial it must be seene whoe doe offer best meanes of triall And here you will endeuour to shew that all meanes of triall which Master Charke and his fellowes will seeme to allow in worde For they offer none in deede are neither sure possible nor euident but meere shifts to auoide all triall and that your selues do offer all the best and surest waies of triall that euer weere vsedin the Church for discerning an hereticall spirit from a Catholike Your indeuour is great but your abilitie is small for you shall neuer be able to demonstrate either the one or the other howsoeuer with vaine sophistications and wrested authorities you seeke to dasell the eies of the simple Let vs heare therefore howe you beginne The onelie meanes of triall you say which Master Charke will seeme to allowe is the scripture But this is a shift common to all heretikes especiallie of our time First you slaunder Master Charke in saying that he alloweth the scripture to be the onelie meanes of triall of spirites whereof he speaketh not at all in this preface but of triall of spirites by the doctrine of Christ which is moste plainlie and certenlie set forth in the holie scriptures and therefore by the holie scriptures the doctrine maie best and moste certenlie be tried and iudged But that Master Charke by referring him selfe to the holie scriptures onelie as suffiâ—â—â—n and â—â—le to decide all controuersies of Religion doth denie or exclude all other meanes of 〈◊〉 whereby the true meaning of the scripture may be knowne it is impâ—dent he affirmed without either proofe or likelihood of truth as hereafter more plainlie will appeare Saint Augustine as though he were an enimie of conâ—â—â—â—ing heresies by the authoritie of the scriptures onelie is quoted in the margent de nupt Concup lib 2. cap. 31 whose words are these Non est miâ—â—am si Pelagiani dicta nostra in sensus 〈◊〉 volunt detoâ—quere conaâ—tur quando de scripturis sanctis non vbi obscurè
Luther say that he hath but one sacrament for vs in that mea ning of the word sacrament in which he is charged by the cauiller to alter his opinion so shortlie but in an other meaning neither doth he saie that this one sacrament is haptisme in which I can but wonder at the impudency of this fellow that forgeth this last lie in his owne braine without all colour or shew of Luthers words as though Luther would allow no sacrament of the Church but Baptisme The wordes of Luther are these of the number of sacraments After he hath denied the number of seauen admitted for the present but three namely Baptisme penance the supper all which he affirmeth by the court of Rome to be brought into miserable captiuitie and the Church spoiled of all her libertie he addeth Quanquam si vsu scripturae loqui velim non nisi'vnum sacramentum habeam tria signa sacrament alia de quo latiùs suo tempore Although if I would speake after the vse of scripture I haue but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes whereof more at large in due time This one sacrament whereof he speaketh is the holie mysterie or secret of our redemption or saluation by Iesus Christ of which the other that are commonlie called sacraments are holie and mysticall signes so that herein he changeth no opinion of the thing but onelie speaketh of the diuerse taking of the worde Well yet will our a duersarie replie he alloweth three sacraments so doth the confession of Auspurge Melancthon fowre and Caluine two and all this by onelie scripture I haue shewed before sufficientlie that this question of the number of those signes that maie be called sacraments properlie or vnproperlie generallie or speciallie is not determinable by the holie scriptures because this name of sacrament is not found in them Those holie mysteries which by externall elements do testifie the inuisible grace of God workeing in vs vnto our saluation by regeneration and preseruation are plainlie set forth in the scripture Baptisme and the Lords supper without naming them sacraments which comprehend that whol mysterie of our saluation which Luther calleth the onelie sacrament by the vse of the scripture according to which explication of the word sacrament there are but two so rightlie properlie and speciallie to be termed according to the auncient vsage of the Latine Church and no more acknowledged by anie protestant of sound religion For Luther his enemies shall testifie which were appointed to gather out of his writings whatsoeuer they thought to be erroneous to be obiected against him this is their Censure Negat septem esse sacramenta sed tantùm tria pro tempore ponenda baptismum poenitentiam panem Immo non nisi vnum esse sacramentum tria figna sacramentalia Duo tamen in Ecclesia Dei esse sacramenta baptismum panem He denieth say the collectors that there are seauen sacraments but that three onelie for the time are to be admitted baptisme penance and the breade nay rather that there is but one sacrament and three sacramentall signes neuertheles there are two sacraments in the Church of God baptisme and the bread Luthers iudgement thus appearing by the confestion of his owne aduersaries that as baptisme and the supper are called sacraments there are no more that rightlie and properlie can beare that name The confession of Auspurge and Melancthon which as our answerer saith pretend and professe to follow Luther in all things can haue none other meaning in this matter of the number of the sacraments of the new testament And Melancthon expressely discoursing of the term sacrament sheweth how diuerslie it maie be taken to comprehend two three or fowre And in the last edition of his common places where he answereth the articles of the Bauaricall inquisition he holdeth but two properlie to be called sacraments as Luther before him in his Catechisme the greater and the lesser Wherefore this friuolous cauill is thus easilie discussed to the shame of the cauiller and to the attestation of our consent in the matter and substance of trueth The like brable of wordes he maketh of the title of heade of the Church which Caluine and the Magdeburgeans doe mislike and Caluine in King Henrie found to be Antichristian but Caluines folowers in England do finde by onelie scripure to be moste Christian. Where all the dissention is in the terme which being rightlie vnderstood as by law it hath bene confirmed vnto the Prince conteineth no other authoritie then Caluine and all other professors of the Gospell do acknowledge to pertaine vnto the Christian magistrate and is prooued to be moste Christian not onelie by scripture but also by testimonie of the moste auncient and Catholike Fathers of the Church as it were easie to shew but that it is here no place to decide these controuersies The title of supreme head of the Church graunted to King Henrie Caluine saieth was blaspheomus not as it was vnderstoode of the godlie at that time but as it was applied by Stephen Gardiner who in a conference at Ratisbone cared not much for the testimonies of the scripture but said it was in the Kings power to abrogate decrees and to institute new ceremonies as to appoint daies of fasting abstinence from flesh c. And not staying there he proceeded further to affirme that it was lawfull for the King to forbid mariage vnto Priests to forbid the laie people to drinke of the cup in the Lords supper and generallie to commaund or for bid in his kingdome what he would because he had soueraigne authoritie This authoritie or the title in this sense neither our princes do accept neither doth anie godlie man allow vnto them A third example he bringeth of burning of heretikes wherein he saith The Protestants a greate while by onelie scripture defended against the Catholikes that no heretikes might be burned or put to death whereof large bookes are written on both partes Now they haue found by euident scripture that they maie be burned As though there were not controuersies enow betweene the Papists and the Protestants this man will needes make more as this of putting blasphemous heretikes to death which was neuer denied the scripture of stoning blasphemers false Prophets and Idolaters being so manifest A. nabaptists indeede and such like sectaries are lothe that heretikes should be punished with death But there hath bone long bookes saith he written thereof on both partes If you aske him by whome he biddeth you in the margent looke Eckius in Encher and Luther contra Latom. de incendiariis Would you not thinke this follow had read these treatises for burning of heretikes pro contra whereunto he sendeth vs to iustifie his saying of large bookes written on both partes but in truth he either neuer saw the bookes or els he is the moste impudent forger that euer was heard of for Fckius in his litle booke called Encheridion loco 27. de hereticis Comburendis
conscience of men to sanctifie them by their worke whome Christ by his onelie oblation hath made perfect for euer They that holde these points denie Christ to be a perfect Prophet King and Priest But these be deepe mysteries of puritanisme saith the answerer Christ is a Prophet alone a King alone a Priest alone the ouerthrow of all gouernment No sir no to acknowledge Christe to be our onelie Prophet king and priest ouerthroweth not but establisheth all power that is ordeined vnder him to teach gouerne and sanctifie The scripture in deede Eph. 4. Acts. 5. doth allowe Prophets and teachers in the Church but not authors of new doctrine no makers of new articles of faith no traditions beside the Gospell of Christ which is written that we might beleeue and beleeuing haue eternall life in his name The scripture alloweth Kinges and rulers 1. Pet. 2. Act. 2. but the scripture giueth no authoritie to any king or ruler to dispense against the lawes of God nor to any Prophet or priest to discharge subiects of their oth made to their lawfull Prince to binde the conscience of man with new constitutions as necessarie to saluation c. But whereas you aske whether Priests may not sanctifie by the word of god 2. Tim. 4. you are neare driuen for proofes For to omitte that the Chapter you quote hath neuer a word either of priests or sanctifying and to take your meaning to be of 1. Tim. 4. verse 5. the Apostle speaketh not of the Priest or ecclesiasticall ministers power of sanctifying but of euerie Christian man and woman to whome euerie creature of God in the right vse thereof is sanctified by the word of God and praier and against them that forbid thinges consecrated and allowed by God as matrimonie and meates sanctifyed by his worde that hath giuen them to be receiued with thankesgiuing and by the praier of the thankefull receiuer as a mean to obtaine sanctification from God whoe onelie is holie and therefore hath onelie power properlie to sanctifie and to inioyne as more holie by their owne making and not by Gods sanctification virginitie then matrimonie fish then flesh yca take vpon them to sanctifie Gods creatures in an other vse then God hath appointed them as water fire garments boughs flowers bread and such like for religion and sanctifying of Christian men Againe he asketh what doe the traditions of Christ and his Apostles for of those onelie they talke when they compare them with scripture impeach the teaching of Christ and his Apostles I answere there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles pertaining to a Christian mans dutie to obtaine erernall life but those that be comprehended in the holie scriptures as the spirite of God in the scripture which cannot lie doth testifie And therefore they are the traditions of men and not of Christ and his Apostles that areso called vnder which title all heresies fansies may be brought in without testimonie of the written worde of God Wherefore such traditions doe greatlie impeach the office of Christes teaching reproouing his Apostles and Euangelists of imperfection if they haue not comprehended the summe of all that Christ taught and did for our saluation which Saint Luke in the beginning of his Gospell doth professe that he hath done and that verie exactlie And further it is false that our answerer saith they talke of the traditions of Christ and his Apostles onelie when they compare them with scripture For they compare the decrees of their Pope and of their generall councells allowed by him to be of equall authoritie with the holie scriptures as well as traditions Secondlie he asketh what doth the spiritual authorttie of the Pope vnder Christ diminish the Kinglie power and authoritie of Christ I answere the Pope hath no spirituall authoritie vnder Christ by anie graunt of Christ but he vsurpeth authoritie aboue Christ when he will controll the lawes and institutions of Christ as denying the cuppe of blessing vnto the laie people and in taking vpon him to make newe lawes and to inioyne men to obserue them in paine of damnation as be his lawes of abstinence from mariage and meates for religions sake which Christ hath left free for all men euen for Bishops Priests and Deacons of the Church and in an hundred matters beside Last of all he asketh How doth the priesthood of men as from Christ or the sacrifice of the altar instituted by Christ disgrace Christs priesthood or his sufficient sacrifice once for all offered on the crosse I answere the priesthood of reconciling by sacrifice doth not passe from Christ to anie man because he hath by one sacrifice made perfect for euer all that are sanctifyed and liueth for euer to make intercession for vs therefore hath as the Apostle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a priesthood that passeth not to any other in succession as Arons priesthood did whereby he is able to saue for euer those that come vnto God by hym Againe I denie that Christ did institute that sacrifice of the altar whereof there is no worde in all the scripture and therefore a new priesthood and a new sacrifice must needes be blaspemous against the eternal priesthood of Christ and that one sufficient sacrifice which he offered and therebie found eternall redemption The texts alledged by Master Charke Heb. 7. 9. he saith doe not impeach this dailie sacrifice of theirs because they graunt that sacrifice once offered c. in that manner as it was then done meaning bloodelie whereas they offer it vnbloodelie c. But the wholl discourse of the Aposile throughout the wholl epistle almoste excludeth all repetition of that sacrifice in any manner For therepetition of the same sacrifice should argue imperfection in it as it did in the Iewish sacrifices and without shedding of blood there is noremission of sinnes Is Christ shoulde be often offered he should often suffer All which being impossible it remaineth that as Christ offered himselfe but once and not often so no man hath authoritie or power to offer him anie more neither is there anie neede he should be more then once offered seing by that one oblation he hath made perfect for euer all that are sanctified and hath found eternall redemption for all that beleeue in him But for proofe that there must be such a daylie sacrifice in the Church vntill the end of the world he alledgeiu the prophecie of Daniell 12. Malachie 1. whereas Daniell speaketh of the dailie sacrifice of the Lawe which should cease in the persecution of Antiochus and be vtterly abolished by the death of Christ. And Malachic of the sacrifice of praise and thankesgeuing which by all nations is offered as a pure sacrifice and acceptable to him through Christ. The former exposition is allowed by S. Ierome to be verified of Antiochus in a type of Antichrist whoe shall forbid culium Dei the worship of God which doth not require any such
holde thy peace that no man euer perceiue or smell out that I haue so euill a conscience And afterward should set forth my selfe lustilie and clapping my handes together with full mouth should sing Hei how the Christians haue not anie place of scripture which affirmeth and prooueth that the word is made flesh And yet at the last I should submitte my selfe againe and desire to be instructed and taught how they could prooue it out of the scripture which I before had rent in peeces If this were leife and lawfull for me to doe O mortall God how great businesse and trouble might I cause in the olde and new testament as well to the Iewes as Christians These are the verie wordes of Luther in deede Now the ende why he vseth these fond comparisons he sheweth afterward Quisquis enim vult verba scripturae aliter quà m sonant interpretari is tenetur ex textu eiusdem loci aut ex aliquo fidei articulo probare For whoesoeuer will interpret the wordes of scripture otherwise then they sound he is bound out of the text of the same place or out of some article of faith to prooue it Which rule in deede or the like if it be notkept there will be no ende of vaine licentious interpretations But Zuinglius and Oecolampadius out of the text of the same place where the cuppe is called the new testament in his bloode and out of the article of Christs incarnation and true manhoode vnconfounded with his godhead doe prooue that their interpretation must needes be true therefore these similitudes doe not shew that their exposition is absurde also Luther him selfe denyeth that his meaning was to deface them by those grosse similitudes absurdities Deus nouit c. God knoweth saith he that with these grosse similitudes I studdie not to deface Zuinglius and much lesse Oecolampadius vnto whome God hath giuen manie gifts aboue many other men whose case I doe lament from my heart neither with such wordes doe I bend my pen against them but rather against the Deuill proudlie and bitterlie 〈◊〉 vs which hath circumuenied and deceiued them that I might fulfill the lust of my minde against him to the honour of God c. These sayings of Luther declare that albeit he stood too much in his owne conccyt touching this sacramentarie matter and was verie hastie and rash of iudgement in condemning them that helde the truth against him yet he was not so voide of charitie as the answerer gathereth by some vehement speaches of his shewing here how he meaneth them and would haue thē to be vnderstood namely not against the persons of Zuinglius and Oecolampadius but against the deuill who as he falselie imagined had deceiued them in this matter So that the controuersie is still betweene the true Catholikes and the Papists which part prouoketh to the scriptures in their true meaning as the onelie sufficient rule to decide all controuersies of religion But which part alleadgeih the true meaning saith our answerer according to the councell of wise Sisinius to Theodosius the Emperour we desire to be tried by the iudgement of auncient fathers indifferent in this matter for that they liued before our controuersies came in question This he saith but as I haue prooued before and namelie in the exampled of transsubstantiation they will not stand to the iudgement of the auncient fathers further then their Pope shal alow them As for vs we refuse not the iudgement of the most auncient fathers except it be in such matters wherein it is manifest by the plaine texts and necessarie collections out of the scripture that they were deceiued as euen the Papists will confesse in some poyntes that they were This wise Sisinius whose counsell he would haue followed was a wise heretike whoe first gaue the aduise to Nectarius the Catholike Bishop by whome it was commended to the Emperour and had good successe against all other heresies saue the heresie of the Nouatians who by meanes hereof came in credit with the Emperour and had free libertie to vse their conuenticles openlie By which it appeareth that it is no perfect kinde of triall which was first offered by an heretike wherebie he could not be conuicted of his heresie Againe it was not vsed against the sufficiencie of the scripture and the triall that maie be had therebie but onelie to cutte of quarelous disputation of heretikes which are alwaies more readie to contend then to learne the truth Last of all where he saith the auncient fathers are indifferent for that they liued before our controuersies came in question it is no sufficient argument seeing the auncient fathers erred them-selues in some points and no man is an indifferent iudge in that case wherein he is deeeiued him-selfe Againe the auncient fathers are not all of one antiquitie but commonlie the most auncient the purest and furthest from all smacke of Antichristian errors the later more sauouring of the infection of the times drawing toward the apostasie Euen as water the nearer the spring is purer but running further of through vnpure soyle receiueth some taste thereof So the Councell of Sisinius in respect of the most auncient fathers that were before the heresies of those times was better to be vsed in his time then in these daies when they that liued fiue hundred yeares after Sisinius maie be counted auncient fathers in respect of vs yet their iudgement not so weightie nor so meete to be imbraced as those first fathers of the primitiue Church to whose iudgement if all matters of controuersie were referred the Papists should get but small aduantage But our aduersaries saith the answerer will allow no exposition but their owne wherebie it is easie to defeat whatsoeuer is brought against them scripture or Doctor In deede this which he saith is moste true of the Papists as I haue prooued before but vntrue of vs for we allowe all interpretations that are not contrarie to the analogie of faith and are agreeable to the plaine words necessarie circumstances of the place of scripture not repugnant to anie other euident text of scripture According to which rules we must examine all expositions of all men since the Apostles time yea the Apostles them-selues were content that their doctrine should be examined by the scriptures of the olde testament but so are not the Papists for they holde opinions altogether beside the scriptures But our answerer to iustifie that which he hath saide against vs bringeth examples of shifting scriptures and Doctors all which except one are gathered out of diuerse writings of Doctor Fulke for answere of which seeing he hath set forth a speciall treatise I referre the reader thereunto pag. 38. 39. 40. That one example which he could father vpon no man I will examine here The like euasion saith he they haue when we alleadge the wordes of Saint Paull Qui matrimonio c he that ioyneth his virgin in mariage doth well and he that ioyneth
their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
you both to wil and to be hable to do for his owne good pleasure whereupon we conclude that though a man is willed to worke his owne saluation by walking in that waie which god hath appointed for them that shal be saued yet he can doe nothing by his owne strength but all that he doth is of the grace of god for by grace you are saued through faith that not of your selues it is the gift of God To be short we make not the grace of God an helper onelie but a wholl doer and bringer to passe in vs of our saluation and of all thinges tending thereto For we are not apt of our selues as of our selues to thinke anie thing belonging thereto but our aptnes is of God Nor I saith Saint Paul but the grace of God which is with me Againe we haue infinit places of scripture to prooue that a man ought not to dout of his saluatiō in respect of the truth of Gods promises although we ought to feare trem ble at Gods iudgements and although we cannot be alwaies voide of feare in respect of our own weakenes Furthermore they haue expresselie doe ye the worthie fruites of penance Luc. 3. we haue no where that faith onelie is sufficient without all satisfaction and all other workes of penance on our partes The fruites worthie of repentance we acknowledge to be necessaire to declare vnfained repentance but not for satisfaction of Gods iustice which is blasphemous against the satisfaction of Christes death But that a faith which is fruitles or voide of the workes of repentance should be sufficient to saluation or Iustification we doe vtterlie deny as a thing contrary to the scriptures Yet againe they haue expresselie that euerie man shal be saued according to his workes Apo. 20. we haue no where that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith We confesse as the text is that euerie man shal be iudged according to his workes and so perhaps he would haue saide if the corrector had done his part neither doe we affirme that men shal be iudged onelie according to their faith for triall of their faith shal be made by their workes Once againe they haue expresselie that there remaineth aretribution stipend and paie to euery good worke in heauen Marc. 9. 1. Cor. 3. Apoc. 22. Ps. 118. we haue as he saith no where that good workes done in Christ do merite nothing In the 3. text quoted out of the new testament is all one word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth a rewarde whether it be freelie giuen or deserued by laboure To him that worketh saith Saint Paule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rewarde is not accompted according to grace but according to debt But God is debter to no man Neither is there anie merit of good workes once named in the scriptures but against the merit of good workes Christ saith epxresselie when you haue done all thinges that are commaunded vnto you saie we are vnprofitable seruants and the paie wages stipend merite or desert of an vnprofitable seruant is shewed Matt. 25. 30. Cast out the vnprofitable seruant into vtter darkenesse there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth It is therfore the grace mercie and trueth of Gods promise whereby we claime rewarde and not the merites desert or debt of our good workes To that he saieth they haue expresselie praier and sacrifice for the dead in the second of the Maccaebees We answer that booke of Macabes to be no holie Scripture out of which he might haue expresselie a man commended for killing himselfe Whether Angels present good workes and almesdeedes before God and whether Saintes departed do praie for them that are aliue which he gathereth out of the Apocriphal bookes of Tobie and the Maccabes we make no question as of matters not reuealed in the canonicall scriptures But if they were graunted to be so yet it followeth not that men aliue must or may praie to Angels or Saintes departed Last of all out of the canonicall scripture he saieth they haue expresselie that the affliction which Daniell vsed vpon his bodie was acceptable in the sight of God Dan. 10. and we haue no where that such voluntarie corporall afflictions are in vaine But which of vs saith that such voluntarie corporall affliction as Daniell vsed and to such end as he did vse them are in vaine No man verilie You see therefore that while he boasteth of expresse words of scripture against vs he is driuen either to glose vpon the text or to faine some opinion vnto vs which we holde not at all and that all his bragges are but winde and wordes without matter as of one that-fcareth no shame because his heade is hidden The third waie of triall is necessarie collections made and inferred vpon the scriptures which we are willing to acknowledge and admitte to be of as great authoritie as the expresse words of the scripture But to discerne what is necessarie collection and what is not necessarie collection when there is no expresse wordes of scripture there is no certaine waie but the iudgement of Logicke for that onelie is necessarie collection which out of expresse words of scripture or articles of faith or other groundes confessed to be necessarilie gathered out of the holie scripture may be rightly concluded in a true and lawfull syllogisme whatsoeuer cannot be so concluded is no necessarie collection But our answerer saith we must referre our selues to the auncient primitiue Church for this meaning and his reason is For it is like they knew it best for that they liued nearer to the writers thereof then we doe who could well declare vnto them what was the meaning of the same we doe willinglie yeald to consult with the auncient primitiue Church to be holpen with their collections but to admit all their collections without examining them were to admit many errors that euen the Papists doe condemne for errors and which are reprooued by the scriptures them-selues Let one example serue in stead of manie S. Ierome collecteth out of this scripture It is good not to touch a woman that therefore it is euill to touch a woman Euerie man doth see that this is an vnnecessary collection and so are many other in the auncient fathers writings Wherefore we must vse the gift of knowledge of right gathering and concluding which God hath giuen not to be vnprofitable vnto his Church but to be both beneficiall and necessarie Againe marke the feeble reason vpon which our answerer groundeth his saying It is like they knew it best he cannot say it is necessarie that they knew it best then how prooueth he that it is like because they liued neerer to the writers then we doe who could well declare the meaning vnto them In deede if we had the writings of them that liued so neere vnto the Apostles that they might heare their meaning of their owne mouthes it were some likeliehood and yet no necessarie proofe
of necessarie collection For Logicke would stil iudge whether such meaning could be necessarilie gathered out of such wordes Seeing we are not bound to creditte any writings since the diuine inspired scriptures but so farre as they agree with the scriptures and receiue the light of trueth from them But those auncient writers to whome he would haue vs to referre our selues liued so many hun dred yeares after the Apostles and Euangelists the writers of the new testament as they could no more declare to them then to vs their meaning in their writings and therefore those auncient fathers which ground purgatorie prayer to saintes sacrifice of the altar vse of the crosse c. beside tradition vpon the scriptures as the answerer saith must shew the necessarie collection of them by the iudgement of demonstration seeing they neuer sawe the writers neuer heard them speake nor possiblie could liuing so long after them or els they can carie no credit of necessarie collection outof the expresse wordes of holy scripture As for tradition without scripture since God hath giuen the holie scripture is as good as the credit of men may be without a warrant from God A fourth waie of triall of spirites with him is Councells by which olde heretikes haue beene tried and they are content to referre themselues to all the Christian Councells that euer haue beene since Christ died We acknowledge Christian councells to be a godlie meane to exa mine and trie the spirites but according to the scriptures onelie for matters of faith as in the example of the first Councell of Christendome Act. 15. where the question was determined by authoritie of the scriptures But that the Papists dare abide the triall by al Councells it is false for they admit none but by the Popes consent they admitte nothing in them but that the present Pope doth allow Many Councells in Aphrica forbad appellations to Rome the general Councell of Chalcedon made the Bishop of Constantinople of equal dignitie with the Bishop of Rome the Bishop of Constantinople condemned and accursed a Pope sor an heretike the Pope of that time confirmed it yet now it is not holden for Catholike But I will spare examples vntill this lustie gallant dare aduenture the triall whereof he maketh the challenge But seeing there are many points of controuersies betweene vs and the Papists which in no auncient councell came in question he bobs vs with the last most learned Godlie and generall Councell of Trent which was gathered of purpose for triall of hercticall spirites whereunto all safe conduct being offered we refused to come for triall As though the Catholikes would haue come to the Councell of Nice if nothing might haue beene therein determined but that which pleased Arius or to the Councell of Constantinople if nothing might haue beene concluded but that Macedonius would allow Or to the Councells of Ephesus and Chalcedon if when all had beene saide that which liked Nestorius and Eutiches must haue bene holden for Catholike Such is our case we accuse the Pope to be an heritike yea and to be Antichrist the Pope will admit no councell but where he him selfe is iudge nor any to haue any voice determinatiue but onely such as are sworne to maintaine his heresies and ambition It is great pitie but the Protestants must come to such a councell Such were many councells holden of olde time by heretikes but for the most part not frequented by the Catholikes Some of our profession were at Trent but what entertainement had they euen such as their aduersaries could afforde them they were not permitted to haue any speach but as pleased their enemies wherefore when they saw noe equitie vsed as they could looke for no better before they came they left the heretikes to consult among them-selues by example of auncient fathers in like Chapters of heretikes The sift waie of triall is to referre the matter to the olde Doctors which liued before the controuersies began of which we haue spoken latelie and this we haue often vsed and still vse against the Papists in most controuersies although the authoritie of man is no certaine rule to trie which is the truth of God Augustine against Iulian vsed this waie rightlie first confuting the Pelagians by the authoritie of the holie scripture and then by the testimonie of the auncient fathers also Theodosius also in a case determined by the holie scripture did politikelie circumuent the heretikes after the aduise of Sisinius the Nouatian by the suggestion of Nectarius the Catholike to put them to a foile which had good successe because the others cause was naught But Epiphanius hath a hard saying against vs as our answerer thinketh It is enough to say against all heresies the catholike church hath not taught this the holy fathers haue not admitted this But I wene Epiphanius doth not meane that it is enough to saie so except men can prooue it to be so For els it is aseasy for heretikes to saie so against Catholikes as for Catholikes against heretikes And here out answerer voucheth Epiphanius quoting onelie lib. 2. contra haere but no Chapter of so long a booke wherebie knowing him to be a common foyster we maie well suspect his honestie in this voucher vntill he shew vs in what Chapter we shall finde it The sixtwaie of triall with him is to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersall Church or great multitude of Christians out of which the other part first departed But to consider which is the Catholike or vniuersal Church is no waie of triall but the matter to be tried And the description that he maketh of the Church is as vncerten the great multitud of Christians out of which the other part first departed For the Catholike Church is not alwaies the greatest multitude When the East Church was deuided from the West the one was as great a multitude as the other yea considering the number of prouinces of the East and the largenesse of them it was the greater And one heresie some times departeth out of another as the Rogatians from the Donatists the Eunomians from the Arrians the Iacobites from the Eutichians c. Neither doth Saint Augustine against the Manichecs make the consent of people and the name of Catholike of them-selues to be a sufficient waie of trial but among many thinges which altogether held him beside the authoritie of the holie scriptures he accounteth these which with the truth are a good confirmation but can be no preiudice against the manifest truth as he confesseth in the same place To the iudgement of Vincentius we will subscribe to holde that which euerie where which alwaies which of all hath beene beleeued so hath no point of Poperie Hoc est etenim verè proprièque Catholicum quòd ipsa vis nominis ratioque declarat quod omnia verè vniuersaliter comprehendit For that is truelie and properlie Catholike saith Vincentius which thing the verie force and reason of the name declareth
will so that she was among them baptized and tooke vpon her the forme of a Nunne whome her father would by force and stripes haue compelled to returne to the Catholike Church but he was forbidden by S. Augustine to vse such force if she would not come with a good will This maie touch Papistes also which haue and do professe nunnes monkes and Priestes yong vndiscret persons against the consent of their parentes but how it should be applied against vs I cannot see But here the notebooke was to blame to quote these places for such purposes the answerer I hope is not so impudent that if he had read the places him-selfe he would for shame haue noted them against vs or els haue added as he doth Finally he noteth it as heretical in the Arrians to appeall from traditions to onelie scripture lib. 1. Contra Maximinum In all which booke there is no such matter for neither doth Maximinus appeale from traditions neither is he noted for so doing by Saint Augustine In deede he often times boasteth of the authoritie of holie scriptures and in that conference he manie times calleth for testimonies of holie-scripture and professeth that he is wil be a disciple of the holie scriptures But for this he is not reproued of Saint Augustine but still pressed with the authoritie of holie scriptures whereof he falselie boasted and when he doth but once call to witnes the councell of Ariminum Saint Augustine in his answer telleth him plainlie that he ought not to alleadge with anie preiudice that Councell against him as neither him selfe the Councell of Nice against the Arrians but requireth that the matter be decyded by authority of the scriptures which are common to bothe partes But Irenaeus in deede doth note it as hereticall in the Valentinians to appeale from the holie scripture to traditions without the which they affirmed that the trueth could not be found in the scriptures which they accused to be diuerselie or doubtfullie written as the Papists do in comparing them to a nose of wax or a leaden rule So the contrarie to that he falselie saith was noted as hereticall by S. Augustine is in trueth noted as hereticall by S. Irenaee But Optatus before Saint Augustine saith he noted it as hereticall in the Donatistes to breake altars whereupon the bodie and blood of Christ were kept as the wordes of Optatus are You must vnderstand that these altars were communion tables made of wood and remooueable couered with a linnen cloth in the time of celebration of which in spite of Catholike Religion some they brake and some they seraped onelie for which follie they are derided by Optatus So plaied the Papistes with the communion tables in the beginning of Queene Maries raigne calling them in despite oister bordes and breaking them with as great furie and without lawfull authoritie as the Donatistes did The like parts they plaied with the communion cups of which he also complaineth as also challenging to them-selues the Church yeardes that the bodies of the Catholikes might not be buried in them So did the Papists in Queene Maries time But the wordes of Optatus are saith our answerer that the bodie and blood of Christ were kept vpon those altars He would haue vs thinke that the sacrament of the altar was kept in a pixe as among the Papistes But the wordes of Optatus are not so For albeit he calleth the communion table an altar as it was commonlie called at that time yet he saith not that the bodie and blood of Christ was kept vpon it his wordes are quid est enim altare nisi sedes corporis sanguinis Christi For what is the altar but the seat both of the bodie and blood of Christ And lest you should thinke that it was a permanent seat wherein the sacrament was kept as it is among the Papistes he saith further speaking of the breaking and scraping of these wooden altars Quid vos offenderat Christus cuius illic per certa momenta corpus sanguis habitabat what had Christ offended you whose bodie and blood at certaine moments of time did dwell there By which wordes he sheweth that the sacrament of the bodie and blood of Christ taried no longer there then vntil the time of the distribution of the same vnto the communicants As for breaking downe of Idolatrous altars and prophaning of all instrumentes belonging to them we haue the word of God as a sufficient warrant so that we cannot iustlie be likened to the Vandales that were Arrians or to Iulian the Apostata which defaced the Religion of the Christians so long as our Religion by the scriptures can not be conuinced of heresie or Apostasie For as heretikes and ethnikes destroied the Religion of Christ with the places and instruments vsed in the exercise thereof so did the Christians serue the Tempells of Idolls and all other monuments of gentilitie and heresie The Papists do no more spare our holie Bibles then we do their prophane bables They breake our tables and cuppes as we do their altars and challices they burne our bodies as we doe their Idolls Finallie it is the Religion that must iustifie or condemne these actions the actions are no sufficient trial of the trueth of Religon Here againe he appealeth to publike disputation or to any other indifferent waie of triall that we dare afford him As for publike disputation we dare if the Magistrates thinke it conuenient but a most in different waie of triall by writing their arguments in syllogismes Doctor Fulke offered for certaine yeares agoe before Campian crept forth with his seditious challenge the offer still remaineth take vp his gloue you Papists if ye dare As for the seditious commendation of Campian and Sherewyn condemned and executed for high treason where with he hath neuer done I will omitte That all heresie is beggerrie which he laboureth to prooue out of Saint Augustine and that the Maiestie of the Catholike cause is greater then heresie can oppresse we doe willinglie graunt Onely let not the maiestie of Christian religion be esteemed by the multitude or wordlie pow er of them which professe it wherein yet the Protestantes are not much inferiour to the Papists at this time but by the riches and glorie of Gods truth reuealed in his holie word wherein Poperie whensoeuer triall is made sheweth it selfe like a moste filthie roge and miserable beggar though she seeke cloakes of eloquence learning authoritie of men or any such like things to couer her And among all that in these times haue taken vpon them to defend her there is not a more beggerlie marchant then this proud answerer who hauing no reading of his owne nor any other good quality of a defender but a brasen face an heape of scornefull words is faine to scrape all his patches of learning out of some other mens notes or suggestions in which he is as voyde of knowledge as a beggar is of honor or riches The
abstinence and fasting he did beare in his bodie the markes of Christ by suffering imprisonment stoning whipping not of his owne hand but of the persecutors of the Gospell As for mortifying our members and crucifying our flesh be higher matters then any voluntarie exercise and extend much farther in ouercomming our whol corrupted nature which it seemeth you little knowe or practise for al your whipping and tormenting of your selues by your comparing of them to exercises of bodelie chastisement Moreouer the seuerity of S. Iohn Baptists life and of other Saintes of the new Testament the olde mencioned in the scripture fauoreth not your superstitious whippings For albeit they did willinglie sometime abstaine from pleasures that are lawful were tormented by other yet none of them was a tormentor of himselfe And as for the great store of examples that you promise the reader in one Chapter of Marcus Marulus lib. 3. cap. 10. of Saintes chastizing their bodies with whippes there is in deed some store of examples of voluntarie not onelie chastening but also tormenting of the bodie but we haue smal warrant either that they were all Saintes or that anie Saintes in such examples of tormenting their bodies pleased God yet is there verie fewe examples of them that whipped them selues The first is of Frauncis the father of graie friers which being assaulted with the thoughtes of marriage being angrie with him selfe therefore did beat him-selfe verie hardlie with the corde wherewith he was girded But when stripes litle preuailed he tumbled him-selfe naked a great while in the deepe snow and afterward binding to his wholl bodie the shapes of men made of snow he spake vnto him-selfe by the waie of rebuking and said loe Francis here is thy wife loe here be thy children either cloath them that they be not so frozen for colde or els forsake al things and serue the Lord onelie So saith your author at length he tamed the wantonnes of his flesh with whipps and quenched the burning fire of lustes by embracing colde snow with his naked breaste But the holy ghost wiser then Francis prescribeth marriage which he did fight against and not Images of snow which he embraced to be a remedie to quench burning Iust. I. Cor. 7. But of whippers there are three more examples Elizabet anunne of Comagie whipped her selfe certaine houres euerie daie Maria Decegnies that was married against her will by often praiers fasting and whipping of her-selfe mooued her husband to vow chastitie with her where your author saith Naufragium c. she had made shipwrack of virginitie being committed to the waues of Matrimonie but while she leaneth to the board of fasting praier chastisment vnhurt and vntouched she swamme out vnto the hauen of saluation But the holie ghost giueth an other rule to them that be married that the wife be not separated from her husband except it be for a time of fasting and praier and then to returne againe together lest Sathan tempt them through incontinencie and that they which are maried should not seeke to be loosed 1. Cor. 7. ver 10. 5. 27. Beside these there is a Dukes wife of Thuringia called Helizabeth that commaunded her maides to whippe her in her priuie Chamber and these are the goodlie examples of Saintes that vsed whipping of them-selues Manie of the rest are wearing of haireclothes as Thomas Becket Maiorus Bishop of Sarina I wot not where in the I le of Britanie Medericus Eduensis Abbas Lewes the 5. King of Fraunce Cecilia and Radegundis wife of Clotharius King of Fraunce vntill she had obtained the dissolution of the band of marriage by binding her-selfe to chastitie agreeable to the doctrine of the Apostle 1. Cor. 7. as well as white and black resemble each other Edmunde of Canterburie ware a coote of maile wouen with leade Macharius Abbat of Alexandria bare on his shoulders a sacke full of sand A Monke in Saint Hierome being commaunded by his elder caried a great stone eight yeares together twise in the daie by the space almost of fiue miles Hierome to Eustochium testifyeth that he cried often day and night together and ceased not beating of his brest vntill by the Lords rebuking quietnes returned An example more meete to be followed of them that seeke the like cause then any we haue had yet which is confirmed by authoritie of the Scripture Psal. 22. Psal. 32. and 42. Bonifacius Archbishop of the nether Missia ryding barefoot in winter his feete were frozen to the stirop and thowed with hotte water Hospitius Monke of Nuceria vsed an Iron girdle Philoramus a Priest liued enclosed in a stonie denne being bound hand and foot with iron bandes and the last daie of his life confessed if you will beleeue the storie that he omitted no moment of time in which he thought not somewhat of God he had beene better occupied to haue attended on the flocke of the Church whereof he was a Priest or elder Martin a Monke of Massick in Campania had bound his foote in a chaine fastened to a rock but being bidden by the Abbat Benet to beware that the iron chaine did not holde him there more then the chaine of Christ he vnloosed the bandes but would neuer departe further Iohn a Monke stood three yeares vnder a hollow rock of a mountain that his leggs thereby swelled and broke into vlcers Pacomius an Abbat walked barefoot thorough the brambles and thornes and returned into his celle with his feete all bloodie Simeon a Monke tooke a rope from a bucket and wound it about his bodie vntill his flesh were eaten with it and putrified till stinke betrayed the secret then the rope beeing loosed he was expulsed out of the Abbey for his follie but afterward being sought for by his Abbat which was troubled with terrours in the night he was found in a drie pitte in the desart and brought back againe Last of al Sara an Abbesse in Scithia by the space of 60. yeares would neuer looke out at a window to beholde the water that ranne by or the pleasant meddow I praie God she were not worsse occupied within then she might haue beene in beholding Gods creatures a broad And these except Saint Paules chastening of his bodie which he nameth first are all the store of worthie examples gathered as you saie out of all antiquitie and yet Paull being the first Thomas Becket is the next and although there be some of greater antiquitie yet out of all antiquitie you would not haue said if you had read the Chapter your selfe except you care not what you saie You adde further that Saint Hierome testifieth of himselfe by an occasion giuen to a secret friend of his that his skinne was well neere as blacke with punnishment as the skinne of an Ethiopian Epist. 22. ad Eustochium And that Iohannes Cassianus that liued about the same time hath infinite examples of the practize of the fathers in this point Saint Hierome in deede writing to
goeing into an other countrie be married to an other man Such counsell I gaue euen them when as yet the feare of Antichrist did holde me But now my minde were to giue farre other counsell and to such a husband which should with such craft beguile a woman I would laie hand on his lockes and pull him vehementlie as the prouerb is And the same I iudge of the woman although it be more rare then in men For it auaileth not anie thing to defraud the neighbour in such waightie causes as touch the bodie substance credit and happines it were needfull that he should be commaunded no tably to pay for such deceitfulnes Thus farre Luthers wordes truelie translated How say you now is not this sufficient to declare Luthers minde that he would reuoke his former counsell of priuie contract or flying awaie and compell the partie to an open diuorse But if anie man thinke this is not sufficient you shall heare what he writeth further concerning this matter while he rehearseth how many causes in Poperie are allowed for diuorces Decima quarta est quam supra recensui simaritus vxor impotentes euirati atque haec estynica inter octodecim illas causas que admatrimonium dissipandum sufficit quanquam ipsa 〈◊〉 obstringatur legibus priusquam tyranni earn permittant The fourteenth cause is that which I rehearsed before if the husband and wife be impotent and vnapt for generation and this is the onelie cause among these eighteene cause which is sufficient to dissolue the matrimonie although the same also be bound with many conditions before the tyrantes will permit it And yet againe speaking of those causes which he him-selfe allowed for diuorcement he saieth Quae nune personae segregari queant intersese videbimus Tres ergo causas noui ob quas diuortium fieri potest prima quae iam in superioribus recitataest cùm marious vxor impotentes ad rem fuerint membrorum aut naturae causa c. Now what persons may be separated one from an other we will see Three causes I knowe for which there may be diuorce The first when the husband and the wife are impotent and vnhable for the matter through cause of their members or nature howsoeuer that may be of which sufficient hath beene spoken Is not all this as plaine as can be that Lutherspeaketh of a diuorce necessarie to be had in that case As also in the same sermon afterward he teacheth that all diuorces are to be made by publike authoritie and with the knowledge and consent both of the common wealth of the Church or of one of them at the least Therefore that I maie rightlie vse your owne wordes against you which you doe vniustlie abuse against M. Charke Can this be excused from extreame impudencie and most willfull falsehoode against your owne conscience Defend this if you can with all the helpes and deuises of your fellowes er els let the reader by this one point of open dishonestie discouered iudge of the rest of your dealings and slaunderings of vs without all conscience both in your sermons and in your bookes c. Now whether he were a Papist or noe when he gaue this first counsell to such as heard shrift you moue the question and conclude against his plaine wordes as it seemeth that he was none Well let vs heare your reasons First you saie that many yeares after his conuersion he sloode in feare of the Pope and said nothing against conâ—ession How many yeares I beseech you For as soone as the Pope excommunicated him and condemned his writings to be burned at Rome he did open lie burne the Popes Canon law at Wittemberge which was Anno Dom. 1520. before that time he acknowledged the Popes authoritie and humblie submitted him-selfe to his Censure if either the grosse abuse of pardons might haue beene reformed or he him selfe conuinced by the scriptures to haue erred But from that time he neuer stoode in awe of the Pope as that open fact declared and there had passed but foure yeares before since he first began to inueigh against the abuse of pardons Your second reason is that it appeareth evidentlie by his wholl discourse in the place alledged where he saith plainlie beside other things that the Papists did seeke advantage against him for this opinion of his and to that ende did misreporte his wordes The wholl discouse I haue set downe that you may see how euidentlie it appeareth For that the Papists did slaunder him it is graunted but therebie it doth not euidentlie appeare that Luther at that time was no Papist For doth not one Papist slaunder another sometime was there not spight and malice betweene friers of other orders against them of that order that Luther was of especially the Dominicans which might cause them to peruert his words meaning As for other things beside and seeking aduantage against him for this opinion you sucked out of your fingers ends for in the wholl discourse there is no such matter Your third reason is that Papists teach no such doctrine but cleane contrarie as though some Papists haue not their priuate opinions which are not generallie receiued Neither is there any thing in substance but in circumstance contrary to the Papists doctrine in that counsell of Luthers For the Papists in the case of impotencie or frigiditie doe graunt a diuorce which Luther thought without triall of law might be made by priuate consent or in case of the impotent persons dislent by voluntarie departing of the other so that this reason disproueth him not to haue beene a Papist at that time any more then the rest The fourth reason is that putting such a thing in writing he should haue beene resisted presentlie if he had bene of your Church But that followeth not especiallie if the writing were not publike but priuate to a fewe gostlie fathers perhaps of his owne order and house and his aduise or opinion onelie not a matter obstinatelie defended And yet it appeareth that is was notwel brooked wheÌ„ his enimies had an inkeling of it Your last reason is that it appeareth by his owne wordes and the computation of time when he wrote this booke that he had left Papistrie a good while before In deede if you can conuince vs by his owne wordes that he had left Papistrie when he gaue this counsell you haue some aduantage against Master Charke but that is yet to come As for the computation of time in which he wrote this sermon of Matrimonie wil not helpe you to prooue that he was no Papist when he wrote the shrifte aduise For he speaketh of it as of matter that was verie olde olim he saieth long agoe For the booke was written much about the time of his mariage which was fiue yeare after his open renouncing of the Pope before which time he was a Papist though in some points he began to espie the grosse errors of Papistrie But as
haue beene hither to frustrate and the strength of the Turke is increased by our warres The second is that vnder pretext of making warre against the Turke the Popehath vsed to rake mony to gether for their pardons And he concludeth that without repentance and the ouerthrow of the Popes tyrannie there is no hope to preuaile in warre against the Turkes because God is not on our side butiustlie incensed against vs. Quantòrectius saith he faceremus c. How much better should we do if first with our praiers yea rather by changeing the wholl course of our life we reconcile God vnto vs And then that the Emperours the princes would restraine that Idole of Roome from tyrannie deceit and destroying of souies For that I also maie once prophecie although I know I shall not be heard Except the Pope of Rome be brought vnder all Christendome is vndonne Let him flie as Christ hath taught into the mountaines he that can or with confidence let him offer his life to death vnto the Romish murtherers The Popedome can worke nothing but sinne and destruction what will you more But who shall subdue the Pope Christ by the brightnes of his comming and none other Lord who hath beleeued our preaching he that hath eares to heare let him heare and let him absteine from the Turgish warre while the name of the Pope preuaileth vnder heauen I haue said By this you maie see that Luther fauored not the empire of infidelitie but sheweth by what meanes it maie be resisted Againe he forbiddeth not defense against the Turke but inuasion of the Turke when we maie be at peace with him For that it is lawfull to fight against the Turke in our owne defense he sheweth his opinion in consut Rat. Latomianae where he derideth the follie of Latomus and the diuines of Louane which racked the decree of Pope Leo to this sense that it was needles to answer the aduersaties of religion which is as great wisedome of the schoole of Louane in proceeding against Luther as if when the Turke doth set vpon vs which is no waies lawfull for him and yet he will not be staid we should send the diuines of Louane embassadors vnto him which should saie vnto him It is not lawfull for thee to fight and if thou do we will condemne thee and so suffer him to raunge at his pleasure and yet boast that we haue gotten the victorie Nay saith he let vs laie aside praiers and all spirituall armour and cease to resist the deuill denouncing vnto him and saying It is not lauful for thee to trouble the Church of God So that Luther by these wordes declareth his iudgement that it is as lawfull for vs and as necessarie with bodelie armour to defend our selues against the Turke assailing vs as it is to fight against the deuill with spirituall armour and to confute enemies of the trueth by the word of God For a fourth example of impietie you adde when he reprehended the Pope for defining beside scripture that the soule is immortall and calleth it a monster of the dunghill of Rome what ground of impietie doth he not laie In deed if Luther should denie the immortalitie of the soule as Pope Iohn the 23. did and was therefore conuicted and condemned in the Counsell of Constance wee would accurse Luthers memorie as much as the Popes But if Luther reprehended the Pope for deliuering that vpon the creditte of his owne definition and authoritie which is manifestlie grounded vpon the authoritie of holie scriptures what a slaunderous penne haue you He was charged by the Collectors art 37. to haue saide thus Certum est in manu Ecclesiae c. It is certaine that it is not in the hand of the Church or of the Pope at all to decree articles of the faith nay nor yet lawes of manners and good workes To this article Luther answereth thus Probo hunc sic c. This article I prooue thus 1. Cor. 3. No man can lay any other foundation beside that which is alreadie laide which is Iesus Christ. Here thou hast the foundation laid by the Apostles but euerie article of faith is part of this foundation therefore none other article can be laid then is alreadie laid There may be builded vpon as the same Apostle saith And therefore the Pope ought to be laide and builded vpon the same foundation but not to lay any foundation for all things to be beleeued are fully set forth in the scriptures Yet I permit that the Pope may make articles of faith to them that beleeue in him such as these are That the bread and wine are transsubstantiated in the sacrament That the essence of god doth neither beget nor is begotton That the soul is the substantiall forme of the bodie That he him seife is the Emperour of the world King of heauen and an earthly God That the soull is immortall And all those infinite monsters in the Romish dunghill of decrees that such as his faith is such may be his Gospell such his beeleeuers such his Church and that like lippes may haue like lettice and the cup a couer meete for it But we which are Christians and not Papanes doe know that there is nothing pertaining either to faith or good manners which is not abundantlie set forth in the holie scriptures that there is neither authoritie nor place for men to decree any other thing These wordes declare that what doctrine is true and needefull to be knowne must be receiued from God by the holie scriptures not from the Popes decrees or from any mortall mans authoritie It is maruaile you doe not charge Luther with holding the pluralitie of Gods because here prehendeth the Pope for defining that the essence of god can neither beget nor be begotton as wel as with denying the immortality of the soul. both which articles are to be taken out of the holie scriptures not from the authoritie of the Popes definition For though the Pope define any thing which is true yet it must not be receiued vpon his creditte but vpon the authoritie of Gods worde And seeing the Popes decrees doe containe such a number of vntruethes the articles of faith from the Popes decrees may receiue discredit rather then authoritie But all thinges must be examined according to the worde of God writen which is the truth yea euen the scripture comming from the mouth of the deuill Againe I wish the reader to consider how truelie you saie that Luther calleth that opinion of the immortalitie of the soule a monster of the dunghill of Rome when he speaketh of the infinite monsters of falsehoode that are found in the dunghill of the Popes decrees where of he maketh no expresse mention in answere to this article The last example of impiety is when Luther affirmeth and mantaineth that neither man nor Angell on earth can laie any one lawe vpon any one Christian further then he will him-selfe What foundation say you
But in what asses eares should it so sound when euerie reasonable man must needes vnderstand that there be offences against the Prince and common wealth as fellonie misprision of treason Mayhem and such like which yet are not offences in so a high a degree as treason is The thing in question you confesse that there is something that doth repugne the law of God and yet is no sinne at all if it be without will or consent as the first motions of concupiscence are Another cauill you haue that his authors haue not onelie these wordes but somewhat more as when they saie Sinne is not whatsoeuer repugneth the law of God but c. If Master Chark had denied the rest it were somewhat that you saie but seeing you graunt they haue all that he rehearseth he is without blame and whether it be part of a definition it skilleth not seeing it is part of their affirmation A third cauill is that he chaungeth the place of the negatiue which in framing propositions altereth often the sense as for peccatum est non quicquid he saith non est peccatum quicquid If Master Charkes chaunging in this place did alter the sense you would haue tolde vs of it but seeing the sense is all one the chaunge is no fault Lastlie for repugneth the law of God you say he putteth it is against the worde of God But here by your leaue you make a peece of a lie for in his first answere he saith it repugneth the law of God which when he repeateth in his replie it is against the worde of God it can haue none other sense then before That you will admit as much as the Iesuites in word or sence haue vttered it is as much as Master Charke requireth Now to the obiection against the Iesuites definition made by Master Charke you saie that to prooue that sinne is no act he obiecteth that iniustice is a sinne and yet no act He were a poore sophister that could not espie your paultrie in this place Master Charke doth not prooue that sinne generallie taken is no act but he affirmeth that there is some sinne which is not an act And therefore the Iesuites in their definition haue not geuen the right Genus or materiall cause of sinne Now for iniustice to passe ouer your knauish example of the execution of Campian and his fellowes so innocent and learned men by great iniustice You take vpon you to teach Master Charke an high point of learning Of the difference betweene a vice that is an habite and a sinne that is a singuler fact which perhapps you weene he learned not before yet euerie young sophister in Cambridge knoweth it well enough But Master Charke speaketh of generall iniustice as his wordes are plaine which is a sinne in not doing the thing commaunded because it is a manifest transgression of the lawe of God whoe commaundeth the wholl and euerie part to be fullfilled and is the sinne of omission which you make the second obiection But euerie omission you saie includeth an act which is a grosse absurditie meaning such an act as is sinne For I maie doe a good act while I omit a better the omission of a better act is sinne the doing of a good act is no sinne To tith mint and anise is a good act of it selfe for it was commaunded by God must not be omitted yet was it sinne to omit mer cie and iustice as the wordes of Christ are plaine this you ought to doe and not to omit the other The examples you bring of one resoluing not to goe to Church Helie determining not to punish his children and the watchmen not to sound the trumpet where the determination and resolution as the cause is the principall part of the sinne are foolish For there maie be omission which is sinne where there is no resolution and determination to the contrarie of that which should be done but negligence or forgetfullnes yea there is omission which is sinne where there is no power in vs to performe that should be done as in all the reprobate and vnregenerate and in the regenerate also in part which neither doe nor can in this life loue God and their neighbour in such perfection as the lawe of God requireth There is omission also through ignorance of Godes lawe which is sinne and deserueth stripes and yet ignorance the cause thereof is no act but the lacke of knowledge But being ouercome by scripture and reason you flie to the authoritie of the auncient fathers and first you quote Chrysost. Homil. 16. in Epist. ad Eph. moste impudentlie where by scriptures reason examples he teacheth the cleane contrarie that omission of dutie is sinne though there be no act to the contrary as when Christ shall saie I was an hungred c. and concludeth Nihilenim boni facere hoc ipsum est malum facere to doe no good euen that is to doe euill or to sinne The like he saieth Hom. de virtut vitiis Satis est igitur mali hoc ipsum nihil fecisse boni Euen this is euill inough to haue done noe good Ambrose hom 18 hath nothing to the purpose or if you meane 81. which is translated out of Basils hom which you quote nexte he hath nothing to your purpose but rather against it For vpon the wordes of Christ Math. 25. I was an hungred and you gaue me not to eat he writeth thus Neque enim in his verbis qui aliena inuasit arguitur sed is qui non communiter vsus est iis que habuit condemnatur For in these wordes he is not reprooued which hath laid bolde vpon other mens goodes but he which hath not communicated those thinges which he had is condem ned Basills wordes in Greek are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the extorcioner is not there accused but he that doth not communicate is condemned Last of all you charge vs with that definition of Saint Augustine contra Faust. lib. 22. cap. 27. Peccatum est factum vel c. Sinne is something done or said or coueted against the eternall lawe But if this were a perfect definitiō what needed the Iesuites to frame another according to whose definition this of Saint Augustine is larger then the word defined and in respect of the sinne of omission it is streighter then the terme of sinne yet it serued Saint Augustine for his purpose in hand concerning the facts of the Patriarches mentioned in the scripture which were to be praised and which to be dispraised As for Ambrose in the place by you quoted lib. de paradiso cap. 8. hath another definition then Augustine and a more perfect taken out of Saint Iohn Quidest enim peccatum saith he nisi praeuaricatio legis diuinae coelestium inobedientia praeceptorum For what is sin but the transgression of the lawe of God and a disobedience of the heauenlie commaundements This definition of Ambrose is perfect and maketh
booke might be had no where but in your report you would make miserable matter of it But they that list to see how impudentlie you lie shall finde in his booke first that he confesseth that the effect of concupiscence which is adulterie by consent is a breach of the 7. commaundement For which he doth not alledge the place as you misconster him Secondlie that Christ vseth a word which in greeke is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth to beholde that is more then to see or to vse the sense of sight which beholding with concupiscence alone he denieth to be sinne in the first degree that with consent of heart is made sinne in so high a degree as adulterie And Augustine him selfe in the place by you cited maketh three degrees to actuall sinne suggestion delectation and consent The first he compareth to the deuills temptation which when it was without man was not sinne in man but now that euerie man is tempted of his owne concupiscence how can you say it is not sinne in man as it was in the deuill Thirdlie the long speake of subeictum praedicatum that Master Charke maketh is comprehended in lesse then three lines And last of all whereas you saie that to quit the Lord moste carefully from sinne he alledgeeth Saint Iames you peruert and that wilfullie both his saying and his meaning and scoffe at him in your doggs eloquence as you are accustomed But he saith expresselie that Saint Iames doth carefullie quitte the Lord from being a sinfull cause of sinne when he turneth vpon man the whole worke and all the blame of sinne from the first sinne of tempting to the ripe and full birth thereof saying that a man is tempted of his owne lust and therewith drawne away and as it were with a bait entised Which things saith Master Charke can not be in bare concupiscence except it were sinne and a sinfull cause of sinne And in deede if euery thing conceaue and bring forth a creature of the same kinde that the damme is of what should the mother of sinne be but sinne Concupiscence conceiueth and bringeth forth sinne therefore it is sinne it selfe But Caluine is condemned of your Church as you affirme for this impietie that he maketh God author of sinne But Caluine appealeth from your Church to the Catholike Church of Christ before whome let vs see what you canne alledge to iustifie this horrible crime You aske if he doth not holde that God is the author of sinne in diuerse places of his works namelie lib. 1. Inst. cap. 8. 17. 18 I answer no but directlie maintaineth the contradiction of that blasphemous slaunder namelie that God is not the author of sinne answering all obiections that are made to the contrarie both by authoritie of scriptures and by testimonie of the fathers You demaund further doth he not condemne Saint Augustine by name for holding the contrarie lib. 2. Inst. c. 4 I answer as before noe Onelie he misliketh Saint Augustine in one place where he saith that induration and excecation pertaine not to the working of God but to his foreknowledge where the scripture expresselie saith God doth harden God doth blinde not as an euill author but as a iust punisher as Augustine els where confesseth for which he is cited cont Iul. lib. 5. where he prooueth at large that some sinnes are not onelie of Gods permission or patience but of his power that former sinnes might so be punished What is this to make God the author of sinne Yet further you aske whether Peter Martyr his scholler do not holde the same in com lib. 1. Reg. cap. 2 And I answer as before that he neuer held that opinion but the contrarie that God is not the author of sinne as it is sinne al though no fact can be committed without his power in whome we liue mooue and haue our being But this is a common slaunder of vnlearned Papistes when they that be learned if they come to entreat of Gods power prouidence predestination reprobation c. can not speake more reuerentlie then Caluine Martyr and all other learned Protestants do write of those high mysteries of God The tenth section intituled Of the first motions of concuptscence THe Iesuites holde that the first motions of lust are without hurt of sinne Of this you thinke you haue said inough before because it dependeth wholie of that which goeth before Yet two places of Saint Augustine you adde and both fraudulentlie The former cont Iul. lib. 2. circa finem you cite thus We might be alwaie without sinne if we neuer did yeald consent to our concupiscence to sinne But Saint Augustines wordes are otherwise Quantum enim ad nos attinet sine peccato semper essemus donec saneretur hoc malum si ei nunquam consentiremus ad malum For as much as concerneth vs we should be alwaies without sinne vntill this euill were healed if we did neuer consent vnto it vnto euill He saieth not absolutlie we should be without sinne but as much as concerneth vs because that euill is in vs without our will or consent which maketh actuall sinne Otherwise not manie lines before he calleth it vitium mortuum a vice dead but yet to be buried that is throughlie healed and addeth further Quomodo igitur mortuum dicimus hoc peccatum in baptismo How then doe we saie that this sinne is dead in baptisme as this man also saith and how doe we confesse that it dwelleth in our members and worketh manie desires against our wills which we resist by not consenting as this man also confesseth but because it is dead in that guilt in which it held vs and till it be healed by perfection of buriall it rebelleth euen being dead Although now it is not called sinne after the same manner in which it maketh guiltie but because it is made by the guilt of the first man and because by rebelling it laboureth to drawe vs to guiltines except the grace of God doe helpe vs. This place of Saint Augustine shewteh that it is sinne and whie it is so called although it differ much from actuall sinne Againe when he saith it is dead vice in respect that it is remitted to the renegerate in baptisme yet it is as a stinking carcase of the enimy which vntill it be buried will infect by which it appeareth what a pestilent thing it is of it selfe though by grace it be ouercome and must be buried in vs till it be vtterlie abolished The other place lib. 2. de gratia cap. 40. you cut very short and vtter in these wordes Quibus sinon consentitur nullius peccati reatus contraehitur Vnto which nation if we giue no consent of heart no guilt of sinne is contracted by them But you conceale craftelie that he calleth these first motions vitious desires which is as much as we require and sheweth how the guilt is taken awaie namelie by remission of sinnes in baptisme His words are these Non
peece of Gods worde and traditions are an other peece and this peece must be added to that or els it is not a perfect or sufficient instruction of itselfe for Gods Church The comparison you make of ioyning S. Lukes Gospell to that of Saint Matthew or Saint Paules epistles to them both to resemble your patching of traditions to the written word of God is both odious and vnlike and without begging the wholl matter in question gaineth nothing For the adding of the writings of one Euangelist to another or of an Apostle to the Euangelistes is but the heaping of heauenlie treasure to the further inriching of the Church in all light of spirituall knowledge so the accession of the bookes of the new testament is as it were the vnfolding or laying open of the same diuine riches that was perfectlie contayned in the olde testament for the saluation of all Gods elect that liued vnder that discipline But your traditions as you maintaine them argue an insufficiencie of the holie scriptures which allso you confesse your selfe and are not a more plaine or plentifull application of the mysteries comprehended in them Therefore though you can for manners sake otherwhile forbeare odious speeches aginst the dignitie of holie scriptures yet euen that odious conclusion gathered by Gotuisus must needes follow of your doctrine concerning the insufficiencie of scriptures and the necessitie of traditions That your traditions are Gods word and of equall authoritie with the scriptures you promise to shew more largelie in the twelft article together with certaine meanes how to know and discerne the same Sed haec in dicm minitave Parmeno You haue taken a pretie pause of three yeares long since you were interrupted as you 〈◊〉 in the end by a writte de remouendo But the daie will come that shall paie for all Whether anie cause or matter hath beene ministred by you of odious speeches against the dignitie of holie scriptures Mastet Charke declareth by one example out of Hosius which with all the rest that he saith you omit to answer as trifling speech to litle purpose So whatsoeuer by anie colour of reason you can not auoid by your censorious authoritie you maie contemne and passe ouer But his conclusion seemeth worthie the answer which he maketh in these wordes To conclude it is a great iniquitie to adde traditions or your vnwritten verities to the written word of God whereunto no man maie adde because nothing is wanting from which no man maie take because nothing is superfluous But to him that addeth shall the curses written in the booke be added for euer Against this conclusiō you note in the margent great iniquitie to adde one veritie to another or to beleeue two verities together A fine ieste but a grosse begging of the wholl cause For who shal graunt that your vnwritten vereties be truth and not falsehood falselie by you termed verities vnwritten There is no veritie of matters necessarie to be knowne vnto saluation which is not written in the holie scriptures that are hable to make vs wise vnto saluation But good Lord what a sturre you keepe because M. Chatk noteth in the margent Apoc. 22. ask how this place is alledged against you c. As though that which is true of one booke yea of euery booke of the scripture maie not iustlie be verefied of the wholl bodie and boke of the the Bible Because adding to the word of god argueth imperfection in the word of god Your stale obiection of Saint Iohns Gospell written after the Reuelation is alreadie answered For al bookes of scripture that haue beene written since the fiue bookes of Moses are no addition to the word of God but a more cleere explication of the 〈◊〉 first com mitted to writing by inspiration of God Neither do they teach an other waie of saluation then Moses did but set forth the same more plainlie by demonstration by examples of Gods iustice and his mercie by threatenings by exhortations by explication of his promises by shewing the accomplishment and the manner of perfourmance of them in Christ and his Church And this they do moste absolutelie sufficiently and plentifully to the saluation of Gods people These things saith S. Iohn are written that you should beleeue that Iesus is Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing you maie haue euerlasting life in his name Here you maie as well cauill that not onelie the Gospell of Saint Iohn or the miracles written in the same is necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation but all the rest of the scripture also foolishlie opposing thinges that are no waie repugnant but the one including the other For the beleeuing of Saint Iohns Gospell doth not exclude but include all other bookes and partes of holie scripture which teach the same meane of saluation or any thing thereto pertaining But how holdeth this argument saie you no man maie adde to the booke of Apocalips ergo no man maie beleeue a tradition of Christ or his Apostles Maie we not as well saie ergo we maie not beleeue the actes of the Apostles No sir for we make our argument in this man ner No man maie adde to the booke of the Apocalips much lesse may anie man adde to the wholl Bible of the olde and new testament And consequentlie there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles to be credited as needefull to saluation which are not contained in the holy scriptures Thus we alledge scriptures and thus we argue vppon them not as it pleaseth you to deseant vpon our allegations and to dissigure our arguments But it is lamentable you saie to see the 〈◊〉 dealings of these men in matters of such importance It is verie true vnderstanding you and your complices to be the men that vse such fleightes in 〈◊〉 waightie causes As for our doctrine is plaine without any seame that the scriptures are sufficient to saluation therfore al tradition besides them are 〈◊〉 to that purpose But let vs see who 〈◊〉 sleightes by your iudgement First you aske Master Charke what he 〈◊〉 by adding Who doth adde Or in what sense as though his meaning and sense of adding were not manifest as also his accusation that the I suites the Papistes do adde to the word of God their traditions a necessarie to saluation yet not expressed or contained in the word of God But if God saie you left anie doctrine by tradition vnto the Church and our ancetours haue deliuered the same vuto vs especiallie those of the 〈◊〉 Church what shall we do in this case Shall we refuse it It seemeth dangerous and I see no reason The question is not whether we should refuse anie thing that God hath left but whether God hath left anie such tradition to be beleeued vnto salua tion which is not contained in the holie scriptures But if our ancetours of the primitiue Church haue deliuered anie such tradition vnwritten as left by Christ what shall we doe you
see no reason to refuse it But if you will learne reason when it is shewed you maie see more then you do now Are your ancetors of the primitiue Church greater then Saint Paull Is there anie testimonié of man greater then the witnes of an Angell from heauen yet if Saint Paull him selfe or an Angell from heauen should preach an other Gospell then Saint Paull had preached and is contained in the holi scriptures that false Gospell were to be resused and the author thereof to be accursed Now that Saint Paull preached nothing beside the doctrine conteined in the scriptures he is a sufficient witnes himselfe Act. 26. 22. But why see you no reason to refuse such traditions so obtruded Forsooth because the same men that deliuered vnto you the scriptures and saide this is Gods writen worde and saide of other forged scriptures this is not Gods written worde the same deliuered to you these doctrines saying this is Gods wordes vnwritten So that by this reason you haue no other foundation of your faith but the testimonie of men who as they may speake the truth in one matter so they may lie or be deceiued in an other As euen by your owne reason the Grecians the Armenians the Georgians the Moscouites and all other sectaries are bound to beleeue all that to be the word of God vnwritten which the same men affirme to be such that deliuered the canonicall scriptures to them and said it was the word of God written But in steade of this vnsure and sandie ground the children of God haue a more firme rocke to builde their faith vpon namelie the spirit of trueth sealing in their heartes the testimonie of men concerning the truth of Gods worde written In which the same spirit also testifieth of the sufficiencie of the word written vnto saluation in such sort as if we receiue the word written for truth we must needs condemne for false what word soeuer speaketh either the contrarie or addeth any thing as wanting and not set forth in the word written And this I say not as though the primitiue Church or the godlie fathers of the same haue brought in any thing vnder the name of tradition of Christ or his Apostles as necessarie to saluation although some of them in matters of rites ceremonies haue alledged tradition beside the scriptures yet in such things as are now for the most part abolished either because they were not deliuered by the Apostles as it was pretended or els because such matters are mutable and not perpetuall though they were receiued from the Apostles But let vs examine the examples that you ioyne to your reason First Saint Augustine and Origen doe teach vs that baptizing of infantes is to be practized in the Church onelie by tradition of the Apostles For which you quote August lib. 10. ad gen lit cap. 23. Origen in cap. 6. Epist. ad Rom. What Saint Augustine saieth and how the baptisme of infantes is practized by authoritie of the scripture I haue shewed before sect 11. As for Origen in the place quoted hath neuer a word to any such matter But of these impudent allegations we haue had too many examples alreadie The second example is Saint Hierome and Epiphanius tell vs that the faste of the lent and oher the like is a tradition of the Apostles Hierom. Epist. 54. ad Marcella Epiphann Haer. 7. 5. Hieromes wordes are these against the Montanistes Nos vnam quadragesimam secundùm traditionem Apostolorum toto anno tempore nobis congruo ieiunamus 〈◊〉 tres in anno faciunt quadragesimas quasi tres passi sunt saluatores non quòd per totum annum excepta pentecoste ieiunare non liceat sed quòd aliud sit necessitate aliud voluntate munus offerre We fast one lent or fourtie daies according to the tradition of the Apostles in the wholl yeare in a time conuenient for vs they make three lentes or fourtie daies fast in a yeare as though three sauiours had sussered not but that it is lawfull all the yeare long except in the pentecostor fiftie daies but that it is one thing to offer a gift of necessitie an other thing to doe it of free will Here Hierome saith that one fourtie daies fast is of the tradition of the Apostles but other writers say otherwise For Damasus in his Pontificall saieth that Telesphorus Bishope of Roome did institute this seauen weekes faste before Easter Telesphorus him-selfe in his decretall Epistle saith that he and his fellow Bishoppes gathered in a Councell at Roome did ordeine this fourtie daies faste onelie for clerkes and contendeth in manie wordes that there must be a difference betweene clerkes and laie men as well in faste as in other thinges If you saie these authorities are counterfet 〈◊〉 as I thin 〈◊〉 you may truelie though you will not willinglie yet what saie you to 〈◊〉 an elder witnes then Hierome whoe testifieth out of yeares that two hundered 〈◊〉 before his time there was great controuersie betweene the next successours of the Apostles concerning the daie of the celebration of Easter and that the coutrouersie was not onelie of the daie but also of the fast some fasting one daie some two dates some more So that of the Apostles tradition we haue no certaintie in any monument of antiquitie Againe it is to be noted that Hierome holdeth it vnlawfull to faste betweene Easter and Whitesontyde which he calleth Peatecoste by the same tradition of the Apostles which yet in the Popish Church is not obserued at this daie for beside the fridaie fast they haue also the gang weeke fast in that time which in Saint Hieromes age was accounted vnlawfull to fast in Your other witnes Epiphanius speaketh not of your fourtie daies lent but of a shorter and yet a streighter For these are his wordes Aquo verò non assensum est in omnibus orbis terrarum regionibus quòd quarta prosabbato ieiunium est in Ecclesia ordinatum Siverò etiam oportet constitutionem Apostolorum proferre quomodo illic decreuerunt quarta prosabbato ieiunium per omnia excepta pentecoste de sex dieb paschatis quomodo praecipiunt nihil omnino accipere quà m panem salem aquam qualemque diem agere quomodo dimittere in illucescentem dominicam manifestum est And of whome is it not agreed in all regions of the world that one wednesdaie and fridaie fast is ordeined in the Church But if we must also bring forth the constitution of the Apostles how they haue there decreed one the wednesdaie and fridaie a fast thoroughout all except pentecost and of the six daies of Easter how they commaund to take nothing at all but bread and salte and water and how to spend the daie and how to giue ouer against the dawning of the Lords daie it is manifest Here he speaketh but ofsixe daies before Easter daie and of an other manner of diet then the Popish Church holdeth to be necessarie
Secondlie he speaketh of the fourth daies or Wednesdaies fast to be appointed by the tradition of the Apostles which yet neuerthelesse the Romish Church doth not obserue Thirdlie that the Pente cosse or fiftie daies by the tradition of Apostles are exempted from the Fridaie fast which tradition is not kept in the Popes Church except you will saie that Pentecost is taken for whitson weeke and then the custome of the PopishChurch is directlie contrarie to the tradition of the Apostles for Wednesdaie and Fridaie that weeke are 〈◊〉 daies And as for the Wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie Epiphanius is so earnest that he addeth further Deinde verò st non de eodem argumento quartarum Prosabbatorum ijdem Apostoli in constitutione dixissent etiamaliter vndique demonstrare possemus Attamen de hoc exactè scribunt Assumpsit autem ecclesta in toto mundo assensus factus est c. And moreouer if the same Apostles in their constitutions had not spoken of the same argument of wednesdaies Fridaies we could otherwise throughly make proofe of it But they write exactly ofit and the Church hath taken it vp assent hath bin geuen in al the world You see he alledgeth not onely a decree of the Apostles but also the consent of all the world for the wednesdaie fast as well as the Fridaie fast So that if the Apostles tradition beside the scripture be necessarie for lent whie is it not also for wednesdaies fast And if wednesdaies faste is not necessarie no more is lent fast Further you affirme that Dionystus and Tertullian saie that praiers and oblations for the dead are traditions of the Apostles De Eccles. hier c. 7. de corona milit but Dionystus al beit we do not acknowledge him for a man of such antiquitie as the papists would obtrude him yet hath not any mention of traditions of the Apostles in that Chap ter touching praier for the dead but either of tradition in scripture orels at large endeuoring to prooue that he saith by scripture Tertullian in the place quoted speaketh onelie of oblations for the dead in that yearelie day which maie signifie thanksgiuing as pro nataliliis for their birth doth in in the verie same clause Not denying yet but Tertullian when he forsooke the Church and became a Montanist yealed to praier for the dead as a thing reuealed by the spirit aud new prophecie of Montanus Last of all you saie Saint Basill teacheth that the consecration of the fant before baptisme the exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized their anointing with holie chrisme and diuerse like thinges are deliuered to vs by prescript of Christ and his Apostles lib. de spi. 5. cap. 27. Of consecration or blessing of the water to the holie vse of baptisme of those that are to be baptized there neede no tradition to be alledged the scripture is sufficient in the institution of baptisme whereby both the water and the perfon are dedicated to God aud his holie worke of regeneration The anointing with chrisme seemeth at the first to haue beene the signe of the giftes of the holie Ghost which were wont to be graunted with baptisme which though it had beene vfed by the Apostles in baptisme yet that particular grace being ceased which to signifie it was vsed it hath no longer anie profitable vse in the Church As for exorcisme vpon those that are to be baptized Is is your owne addition for Saint Basill hath it not But where you saie he hath diuers like thinges as deliuered by traditian it is verie true and among them this sor example that it is necessarie for the children of the Church to praie standing on the Lords daie But this necessitie euen in the popish Church is notacknowledged therefore whatsoeuer he saieth is a tradition of the Apostles is necessarieto be kept of all Christians although all the Church in his time beleeued it as that which Epiphanius reporteth of the wednesdaies fast before spoken of You demaund vpon what ground you shall discredit or reiect these traditions deliuered by such fathers cheife Doctors and pillers of the Church Euen by the same ground that you giue ouer other traditions deliuered by the same persones either because they are not true traditions or els because they are not necessarie for the Church albelt they were deliuered as no doubt some ceremoniall matters were euen by the Apostles them selues Your other reasons are friuolous That they were neerer the Apostles then we For the neerest and moste immediat successours to the Apostles Policarpus and Anicetus could not agree vpon the tradition of the Apostles one of them building vpon Iohn the other vpon Peter as is testified by Eusebius out of Irenaeus in the place before cited An other reason is that they were honest men and would not deceiue vs willinglie And so much we acknowledge yet might they be deceiued in ascribing the common practise of their time to Apostolike tradition and so deceiue vs vnwittinglie nor be controlled because the custome generall acceptation of that ceremonie restreined men Which things considered it is a great iniquitie as Master Charke saieth to adde traditions to the written word of God as if of it selfe it were not sufficient to instruct the Church in all thinges necessarie to saluation That which followeth of Doctor Fulkes handling the olde Fathers about traditions is answered by himselfe in his confutation of popish quarrells from pag. 55. to pag 61. After this you cite foure seuer all Doctors in defence of traditions vnwritten whereunto as some of auncient writers were too much inclined so haue you not so sure ground out of them for your popish traditions as you purpose And to beginne with Basill who by Apostolike traditiō defendeth the custome of the Church which was to sing Glorie be to the Father and to the sonne with the holie Ghost whereas the heretikes would haue it in the holie Ghost and cauilled that the other forme was not in the scriptures Saint Basil mainteineth it as agreeable to the scriptures by authoritie of auncient tradition although it were not expressed in so manie wordes in the scriptures as manie other thinges are which haue like force vnto pietie with those that are dilinered in expresse wordes as for example he alledgeth the confession of the faith in the 〈◊〉 which no man doubteth to be sufficientlie tanght in the scriptures although the verie wordes of our creed are not expressed in such for me As we rehearse our creede I omit 〈◊〉 things saieth he the verie confession of faith in which we beleeue in the father the sonne the holie Ghost in what scripture haue we it Againe And if they doe reiect the manner of glorifying of god as not written let them bring forth demonstration in writing of the confession of faith of other things that we rehearse By which it is manifest that the traditions he speaketh of are of two sortes the one
of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
creature can haue except he be also creator and God himselfe therefore Christ truelie as man receiueth that which is giuen but in respect and right of his godheade he is able to receiue and exercise that power which none can haue but God onelie These thinges indeede maie seeme vnto the simple to be farre fetched and farre from the question of priests power to remit sinnes but they are much farther from the truth of our Catholike faith and Religion that our sauiour Christ in respect of his Diuine nature should be spoiled of his authority or els should thereby worke nothing in a manner in the cheife most necessarie partes of our redemption that Popish priests might be made equall or not farre vnlike him in the power of pardoning sinnes ALLEN For as the due consideration of Christes authoritie and excellent office touching his manhood will helpe vp the decaied honour and iurisdiction that the guides of Gods Church by the right of his high calling do iustlie challenge so it shall expresse the boldnesse of certaine miscreants of this age who to further their sundrie euil in tents and detestable doctrines haue dishonoured Christes dignitie touching his incarnation and office of his redemption exceeding much both in himselfe and in persons of his Pristes and substitutes some of them fearing as I take it lest the honour and office of Christes Priesthood might by participation descend to the Apostles and Priestes of the Church letted not to hold that Christ was his fathers Priest according to his diuine nature of which blasphemie Iohn Caluine was iustlie noted wherein the wicked man whiles he went about to disgrace the dignitie of mortall men became exceeding iniurious to the second person in Trinitie One other of that schoole and of his owne neast denied that Christ in his manhoode should iudge the world lest there might seeme to be some force of punishment and correction of wickednes practized by mans ministerie in this life for the resemblance of Christes iudgement to come And so taught one Richerius of a Carmelite a Caluinist Other deny Christ being now in heauen to make praier for vs according to his manhoode because it tendeth towardes the intercession as Saint Paulin expresse wordes recordeth of him Quòd saluare in perpetuum potest accedens ad Deum per semetipsum semper viuens ad interpellandum pro nobis That for euer he is of power to giue saluation hauing accesse to God by him-selfe and alwaies Iiuing to make intercession for vs. Yea most of the Sacramentaries for the aduantage of their vngodlie assertion that Christ in his owne person as he is God and man should not be present in the sacrament doe couertlie blaspheme the blessed and highlie sanctified fleshof our sauiour auouching it to be vnprofitable whereby they vnaduisedlie dishonour the dreadfull incarnation of Christ and all the workes wrought by the meane of his flesh and blood and ministerie of his manhoode for the remission of our sinnes and purchasing saluation to his Church FVLKE The due consideration of Christes authoritie and excellent office touching his manhoode will nothing helpe to restore the decaied honour and iurisdiction of Popish priesthoode except you can both prooue your Popish priests capable of such honour and power as the sonne of God is and also bring forth the recordes out of the holy scriptures for that high calling whereof you boast That any faithful Christian whome you to maintaine an Antichristian authoritie call Miscreantes haue dishonoured Christs dignitie touching his incarnation and office of his redemption it is a slaunder stronglie aduouched but slenderlie prooued For first Caluine affirming Christ to be a priest in his wholl person God and man derogateth nothing from that dignitie neither is he iniurious against the second person in trinitie for Christ is an high priest after the order of Melchesidech and our redeemer not as a minister and seruant onelie but as the sonne as the King os peace and righteousnes without father without mother without genealogy hauing neither beginning of his daies nor end of his life al which things can not be restrained to the humanitie of Christ but are proper to him as he is equall and eternall with his father That Richerius should denie that Christ in his manhoode should iudge the world it might well be a slaunder of that grosse potheaded Cyclops Villegagnon which when he durst not abide the inuasions of the barbarous people in Gallia antarctica where he had enterprised a conquest he quarelled with Richerius and other godlie persons to haue a colour of returne and a wellcome of the Papists And as touching his slaunderous libell that you send the reader vnto I referre you them to the answere confutation of Richerius Thirdlie that Christ doth make praiers for vs according to his manhoode it is not sufficiently prooued by the text of the Apostle to the Heb. 7. because he may and doth make continuall intercession for vs by the vertue and worthines of the sacrifice of his death although he conceiue no prayers for vs in forme of wordes as men vse vpon earth And if it be graunted that Christ so praieth for vs yet it tendeth nothing towardes the intercession of Saints but rather against it because the interceffion of Christ is sufficient without them yea if the intercession of Saints were prooued it draweth not of necessity praier vnto Saints after it and therefore there were smal purpose in them that denie Christ in such forme to praie for vs to controul the inuocatiō of Saints which thing being either graunted or denied prooueth neither too nor fro that Saints are to be praied vnto or 〈◊〉 That any one of those whome you cal Sacramentaries doth either ouertly or couertly blaspheme the blessed flesh of our Sauiour auouching it to be vnprofitable otherwise then our sauiour Christ himselfe auouched if it were separated from his diuine and quickening spirite doth profitte nothing you are not able to iustifie and therefore you send vs in the margent to Cyrill vpon Iohn lib. 4. Cap 14. whoe sheweth in deede that the flesh of Christ as it is the flesh of the sonne of God hath quickening vertue and power in it to our eternall redemption but otherwise affirmeth nothing thereof that we all are not readie to subscribe vnto ALLEN Let vs therefore Christianlie confes with the scripture and with the Church of Christ that our sauiour not onelie by power equall to his father concerning his diuine nature but also by the sending and graunt of his father and vnction of the holie spirit beeing farre vnder them both in his humane nature doth remit sinnes Whereupon it orderlie followeth that whosoeuer denyeth man to haue authoritie or that he maie haue power graunted him by God to forgiue sinnes he is highlie iniuriouse to our sauiours owne person dispensation of his flesh and mysterie of his holie incarnation For though there be great diuersitie betwixt his state and others because
the sonne of man which was proper to him-selfe so he might well giue the other Your argument in à posse adesse which is not worth a strawe among them that knowe that argumentes doe meane That power which God might giue to meere mortall men whoe doubteth but God might also giue to Christ his sonne to exercise according to his humaine nature but that he did exercise the same onelie as man not as God by what argument is it prooued we knowe that in casting out of deuilles he vsed his diuine authoritie and in his owne name commaunded them to come forth and they obeied Marke 1. 27. he raised the dead by his owne authoritie as God and in his owne name Luke 7. 14. Saint Iohn restifieth that of the eternall worde which was made flesh and dwelt among vs he and his fellowe Apostles did see the glorie as the glorie of the onelie begotten Jonne of God full of grace and trueth From whence come you therefore with a Ghospell to teach vs that Christ did forgiue sinnes heale the sicke cast out deuills and doe miracles but as a man onelie by power receiued from God whereby you shew your selfe to be a good procter for the Arrians if those works which were proper to Christ in respect of his diuinitie you wil draw downe to his humanitie so that he raised the dead clensed the leapers c. not otherwise thē by power receiued frō god as Elizeus did or as anie of his Apostles which did al things in his name whose dignitie you are so careful to further that you care not how you abase the honour of their Master al to bring in a popish that is an Antichristian tyrannie ouer mens soules which is blasphemous against the authoritie of God For if the plaine text of the scripture Iohn 20. 23. whose sinnes you forgiue they are forgiuen c. would yeald you so much authority as you would gladly excercise you would not trouble your selfe to make such impertinent and inconsequent collections by which you would haue it seeme as though Christ in respect of his diuine nature was vnoccupied as concerning the worke of our redemption in the world but that he did all thinges in respect of his humane nature by power receiued from God But Saint Augustine you saie prooueth that by the spirit of God in respect of his manhood Christ wrought miracles which although it be not the matter in question yet you drawe S. Austen to another matter then euer was in his meaning For although it be true that Christ did cast out Deuills in the spirit of God as man yet it followeth not that he did not cast out deuills by his owne authoritie as God seeing the workes of the Trinitie are vndeuided and Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted distinguisheth between those sayings that speake of him as in the forme of God and those that pertaine vnto him in respect of the shape of a seruant But an other argument you haue of that the Iewes which seeing themselues thus ouercome in their vaine cogitations waxed afraid and glorifyed God who gaue such power to men That the Scribes and Pharises which first mooued the question of forgiuenes of sinnes were mooued with reuerence of our sauiour Christ or yealded glorie God I finde not but that al the rest of the people glorifyed to god which had giuen such power to men What power saie you to forgiue sinnes The text saith not so but of working such miracles to heale the man sicke of the palsie so that he was presentlie changed from extreame weaknes to perfect strengh whereof as S. Luke reporteth they said we haue seene sirange things to day and as S. Marke rocordeth it they said we neuer sawe it thus But as for the ordinarie power of making attonement for sinnes which the Priests vsed according to the lawe it was no strange thing vnto them and they had seene it often times before These therefore are the best interpreters of S. Math. which did write by the same spirit But because mans authority with you is many times preferred before god you shal heare what S. Hilarie saith in that place which ere while you affirmed to make nothing against your meaning his interpretation of the text Et honorificauerunt deum quòd tantā dedit potestatem hominib c. is this Conclusa sunt omnia suo ordine cessante iam desperationis timore honor Deo redditur quòd tantam dederit hominibus potestatem sed soli hoc Christo erat debitum solide communione paternae substantiae hoc agere erat familiare All thinges are concluded in due order and the feare of disperation now ceasing honour is rendered to God because he hath giuen so great power to men But this was due onelie to Christ to him alone it was familiar or accustomable to doe these thinges by the communion of his fathers substance These wordes doe plainelie shew that Saint Hilary dissenteth euerie whit from your meaning and that you arme your schollers with no armour of proofe when you wil them to looke for the like power of remitting sins in Christs humanity which he did exercise according to the authoritie of his diuinitie ALLEN Let the proud cogitations of men here attend that so highlie disdaine the ministerie of mortall men in the remission of their sinnes let them controulle the wounderfull wisdome of God which would no otherwise saue the pitifull sores of our soules but by the seruile forme of our owne nature ioined meruelouslie in our person to the worde and eternall Sonne of God the father let them reprehend the vnsearchable secret councell of the holie Trinitie which being of power infinite to worke their wil in al creatures yet would not repaire the world nor remit our sinnes anie otherwise but by the seruice of the Sonne of man let them mislike that flesh blood and the soule of our blessed sauiour being al creatures should ioyne with the onelie almightie creator of all thinger in the remission of all our offences let the presumptuose thus doe and let vs humblie reuerence Gods ordinance and glorifye him in his Sonnes high calling in our kinde through whose singular prerogatiue we shall vndoubtedlie finde exceeding power to be giuen to his bodie and brethren in earth to his moste deare spouse the Church FVLKE The ministerie of mortall men in remission of sinnes no man I hope is so madde to disdaine when Christ him-selfe in so plaine termes hath authorized the same But where you saie that the wisdome of God would no otherwise salue the pittifuli sores of our soules but by the seruile forme of our nature ioined meruelouslie in one person to the word and eternall sonne of God I cannot but maruaile at your Nestorian blasphemie For although it be moste certaine that in the forme of a seruant the wisdome of God preformed that which to the glorie of his iustice was expedient yet that the deitic was altogether idle
or vnoccupied in the worke of our redemption yea that the godhead did not worke the principall and moste necessarie part thereof it is too too abominable and intollerable heresie Out of the like stinking puddle it proceedeth that you saie that the holie Trinitie being of infinit power to worke their will in all creatures yet would not repaire the world nor remit our sinnes anie otherwise but by the seruice of the sonne of man That the seruice of the sonne of man was necessarie to be vsed it is moste true but that authoritie of the sonne of God was not necessarie for so great a worke as wel as the seruise of the sonne of man it is such an impudent blasphemie as I thinke the Pope him-selfe would condemne it if his opinion without partialitie thereof might be knowne As for the worke of Christes humanitie ioyned in one person to his deitie and the commission graunted to his ministers to remit sinnes are nothing hindred by acknowledging that God onelie doth properlie and absolutelie forgiue sinnes euen when his ministers according to his commaundement doe forgiue sinnes as S. Ambrose saith and all antiquitie doth accord Here it is declared by the scripture that the same power of remitting sinnes which God the Father by commission gaue vnto his Sonne as he was man was also by Christ bestowed on the Apostles after his resurrection THE SECOND CHAP. ALLEN IN what high reputation man hath euer bene with god his maker it is not my purpose now to treat of neither will I make anie tediouse talke though it be somewhat more neere the matter how estimation is encreased by the honourable and most merueilous matching of Gods onelie sonne with our nature and kinde whereof whosoeuer hath anie conside ration he shall nothing wonder I warrant him at the soueraingtie of such as be placed in the seat of iudgement and gouernement for the rule of that comonwealth whereof Christ is the head These thinges though they be well worthie our labour and deepe remembrance and not verie far from our matter yet so will I charge my selfe with continuance in my cause that I will onelie seeke out the dignitie of priesthood touching the right that the order laimeth in remission and retaining of mans sinnes In all which cause I take this a grounde that our Masters messenger stood vpon when his disciples grudged that Christ had his followers and practized Baptisme no lesse then him selfe did which is That no man can rightlie receiue anie thing that is not giuen him from aboue Therefore if it may be sufficientlie declared that the order holdeth by good warrant this their preheminence of pardoning or punishing of the peoples offences and that by commission from him who without al controuersie is the head of the Church then the contrarie must learne to leaue their contentious reasoning and vniust contempt of that order which is honoured by power and prerogatiue proceeding from Christ Iesus FVLKE That God of his meere goodnes and mercie hath vouchsafed man of so great honour that of him selfe deserueth eternall shame it is more reason to wonder at Gods mercie then to insinuate anie peece of mans dignitie or worthines That it hath pleased god to aduaunce some men to the gouernment of his Church vpon earth we haue cause to magnifie his maiestie that disdaineth not our base condition but putteth his honour and authoritie vpon them driueth vs not from them by the excellencie of their nature aboue ours but familiarly inuiteth vs to obedience of his wil that we may attaine to his promis of eternal happines The title of this chapter That our sauiour Christ gaue vnto his Apostles the same power of remitting sinnes which God the father by commission gaue vnto his sonne as he was man we do all agree but that Christ did exercise a more soueraigne authoritie in forgiuing sinnes then he did bestow vpon his Apostles or their nature was capable to receiue it is prooued sufficientlie in the Chapter going before Neuerthelesse I will examin all partes of this chapter and if in anie thing I dissent from you I will shew that you dissent from the trueth And first where you professe onelie to seeke out the dignitie of Priesthood touching the right that the order claimeth in remission and retention of mans sinnes you should haue done better to haue sought and set out the duetie of such persons also to whome such dignity is committed lest as it falleth out in your bastarde Popish Priesthood the dignitie be onelie sought for the labour and duetie almost or altogether neglected The ground you take out of Saint Iohn is infallible and therefore your Popish priesthood doth blasphemouslie vsurpe a pretended power to offer vp our sauiour Christ vnto his father as a sacrifice propitiatorie for the sinnns of the quick and the dead for graunt of which power from aboue you can shew no warrant out of the written word of God the onelie true record of Gods graunt and sufficient euidence for so great an authoritie ALLEN And of two or three places in holie scripture pertaining to this purpose that shall be first proposed which with moste force driueth downe falsehood and most properlie pertaineth to the pith and principall state of the cause which we haue in hand Thus then we finde of Christes wordes will and behauiour concerning the commission graunted out to his holy Apostles for the remission and punishment of our sinnes in the 20. Chapter of the Gospell of Saint Iohn Where the Euangelist thus reporteth that Christ after his glorious resurrection came into a secret chamber where his disciples were together the dore being shut for feare of the Iewes and there after he had giuen them as his custome was his peace and his blessing and she wed him self to their infinite comfort that he was perfectlie risen againe in the same bodie that so latelie was buried he then straight afterwarde to make worthie entrance to so high a purpose gaue them this peace againe in manner of a solemne benediction and therewith said Sicut misit me Pater ego mitto vos Euen as the father hath sent me so I do send you And when he had so spoken he breathed on them and said Accipite spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueritis retenta sunt Receaue you the holie ghoste whose sinnes soeuer you shall forgiue they are forgiuen them and whose sinnes you shall retaine they be retained This is the place lo in which the iudgement and rule of our soules with all authoritie in correcting our sinnes in moste expresse and effectuall termes and in moste ample manner is giuen to the Aposiles and their successours Christ him seife doth communicate vnto them the iurisdiction that he receiued of his Father he giueth them in a solemne ceremonie that same spirit of God by which in earth him-selfe did remitte sianes hemaketh them an assured promis that whatsoeuer they pardoned or corrected in mans
warrant of Christ his power receiued by the holy ghost maie as ministers seruants remit or retaine sins we do most willinglie consent and confesse But then they practise this power as seruants when they beinterpreters and declarers of the Lordes will and pleasure and require not that God should followe their sentence or attend how they be affected to forgiue or retaine and so to subscribe vnto their doing for that is an Antichristian vsurpation farre from the meaning of that power which Christ did graunt to his A postles ALLEN Some holie writers vpon this text of S. Iohn in which the order of Christes authorizing his Apostles for the remission of sinnes is described doe dispute of the difference of giuing the holie Ghost then to his Disciples and afterward on Whitsondaie some note the eternall ceremonie that our Master vsed when he gaue them the holie spirit which was by breathing on them that such outward actions might both be an euidence to them of that excellent gift which they inwardlie then receiued and should further be an euerlasting instruction to the Church that Gods grace and giftes be often ioyned to externall elements for the solace of our nature that delighteth to haue our outward man schooled as wel as the inward man nourished These and manie things moe be of profitable remembrance and consideration but not so much to our purpose Therefore let vs see whether the iudgement of the holie Fathers doe not wholie helpe our present cause prouing the Priests ministerie through the holie Ghostes authoritie that our declaration standing on the plaine wordes of scripture with their vndoubted sense maie obtaine inuincible force against the aduersaries worthie credit of the true beleeuers FVLKE If you had expressed what the writers are that thus dispute or discourse vpon this text we might better haue considred how pertinent or impertinent their opinions are to our matter in controuersie S. Chrysost. seemeth to allowe the opinion of some and Euthymius plainely affirmeth the same that the Apostles at this time did not presentlie receiue the holie ghost but onelie were prepared or made capable thereof which if it were true is contrarie to the title of your Chapter I like better of Cyrillus iudgement which thinketh they presentlie receiued the holie Ghost in some measure but not so plentifullie nor with such diuersitie of giftes as on the daie of Pentecost That the grace of God is testified assured and sealed vp vnto vs for the help of our infirmitie by outward signes and externall elementes ioined thereto we know confesse but as for the solace of our nature or delight to haue our outward man schooled I knowe not what they meane It is great mercie of God to beare with our weakenes but it agreeth not with the discipline of the Gospell that we should delight in outward thinges but rather to exercise our faith in spirituall and heauenlie meditations ALLEN We will make our entrance first with Saint Cyrill whoe debating with himselfe vppon the incomparable authoritie and power giuen to the Apostles for remission of sinnes standeth first as in contention with him selfe and with Christs words how it maie be that they being but men should forgiue the sinnes of our soules being sure of this that it is the propertie onelie of the true liuing god to assoile vs of our sinnes against whom onlie all sins be properlie committed And therfore being not of stomake as men be now a daies to denie that which Christes words so plainelie do import he made answere that the Apostles were in deed deified and made as you would saie partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world Qua igitur ratione saieth he diuinae naturae dignitatem ac potestatem discipulis suis saluator largitus est Quia certè absurdum non est peccata remitti posse ab illis qui Spiritum sanctum in seipsis habeant Nam cùm ipsi remmittunt aut detinent spiritus qui habitat in eis remittit detines By what meanes did our Sauiour giue vnto the Apostles the preheminence and power of Gods owne nature Surelie because it agreeth verie well that they should rimit mans sins that haue in themselues the holie Ghost For when they assoile or retaine sins it is the holie spirit that dwelleth in them which by their ministery doth remit or retaine sins Thus he I maruell not now whie this same father termeth the Apostles sometimes protectores curatores animarum corporum the protectors curers both of bodies soules it is not strange whie S. Ambrose should call the order of priestood Ordinem 〈◊〉 Neither that he should terme Officium Sacerdotis munus S. S. The Priests office to be the function of the holie Ghost No I doe not wonder at some of our forefathers that in the admiration of Gods Maiestic which they same to be so present in the execution of so high in office they did simplie and plainely terme the principall Pastours of the Church halfe Gods and not meere men not hauing respect to their persons which be compassed with infirmities as other the sinfull sort of people in the world be but casting eie vpward to the holie and excellent function which they practised by the spirit of God which dwelleth in them and deifieth their persons to make them of habilitie to exercise the workes of God FVLKE Saint Cyrill is farre from that blasphemie to saie that the Apostles were in deede deified and made partakers of Gods nature to worke Gods owne office in the world For ascribing to God that which is proper to him incommunicable to anie meere creature he maketh this obiection how our sauiour did graunt to his disciples the dignitie power of his diuine nature answereth that they were only made ministers instruments of the holy ghost to expresse his power in remitting sinnes by baptisme and repentance whereof S. Chrysostome also saieth vpon the same text that the Priest giueth onelie his tongue and his hand but the Father the sonne and the holie Ghost doth all things in this case I will rehearse the whole saying of Cyrillus that his iudgement maie more fullie appeare vpon this text Et certè solius veri Dei est c. And suerlie it pertaineth to the onelie true God that he is able to loose men from their sinnes For to what other person is it lawfull to deliuer the transgressors of the law from sinne but to the author of the law him-selfe for so in mennes affaires we see it to be done For no man without punishment doth reprooue the lawes of Kings but the Kinges them-selues in whome the crime of transgression hath no place For it is wiselie said that he is implous which shall saie to a King thou doest vniustlie By what meanes then did our Sauiour graunt to his disciples the dignitie and power of the diuine nature because trulie it is not absurde that sinnes may be remitted
holie ghost was God by whose authoritie and proper power they did alwaies since Christs word was spoken remitte the same The which beeing true as it cannot be false that is so agreeable both to scriptures and to all our fathers faith the heresy of our time must needes directly impugne the vertue and power of Gods owne spirit For as the proofe of mans ministerie in this foresaid function induceth the true and euerlasting Godhead of the holy ghost by whome they practize that power so the denial thereof and robberie of priesthoode of this their moste iust claime doth directlie spoile God of his honour and of the euerlasting right that he hath in remission of sinnes So whiles these goodmen seeke to abase man vniustlie they blaspheme God highlie and together with mans ministerie they bring vnto vtter contempt Gods owne authoritie FVLKE Your deifying of popish priests doth altogether weaken the force of that argument which our fathers vsed against the auncient heretikes to prooue the diuinitie of the holie Ghost For it were an easie matter for Eunomius Macedonius or anie other heretike that was against his godhead to replie that by ministerie of God the holie Ghost might as properlie forgiue sinnes as Priestes do by the ministerie of Christ and of the holie ghost yea so farre forth as thereby they are made halfe Gods yea deified and made Gods in deede But you vtter repugnancie when you saie that by Gods authoritie and proper power Priestes do forgiue sinnes Where you make it not proper to God which is common to others with him Therefore you should speake more properlie to saie that God the holy ghost by his owne authoritie and power proper to the deitie doth forgiue sinnes in their ministery men thereto authorized do no more in proper speach and sense but testifie and declare what God doth for which declaration and testification seeing they are the embassadours and messengers of God vnto the world to declare his pleasure of reconciliation or condemnation they are said to forgiue sinnes or to retaine them which they do not properlie but pronounce the sentence of God concerning the remission or retention of mens sinnes And that this was the meaning of the Auncient fathers concerning the authoritie and power of Gods ministers it is moste manifest by this argument whereby they choke the enuier of the holie ghostes diuinitie from which you cutte of all the sinnewes and force it hath to prooue it when you communicate to men that which is proper to God and aduance men aboue the nature of meere men when you deifie their persons by meanes of the giftes of the holie Ghost giuen to them and make them of abilitie to exercise the proper workes of God As for the deniall and robberie that you ascribe I can not tell to what heretikes of this time we detest as much as ye not seeking to abase man beneath the nature and condition of man norseeking to extoll him by robbing God of his glorie and proper effects to magnifie menne to deifie the persoas of men as you do in plaine termes Whereby it is manifest we are as far from blaspheming god or making mans ministerie contemptible which he exerciseth in the name of God as you are from sobrietie thus to iudge if your meaning be of vs or thus to reason if you would defend the argument of the auncient fathers against the auncient heretikes ALLEN But for the readersease and more light of our cause I ioyne thus in argument with them againe vpon the second part of Christes owne wordes and action had in the authorizing of his Apostles Whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his Godhead that may the Apostles and Priestcs do by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But the holie Ghost properlie and rightlie doth remit sinnes Therefore the Apostles doe rightlie remit sinnes by their ministerie in the said holie Ghost All partes of this conclusion stand vpright and feare no falsehood they be guarded on euerie side by Christes action by wordes of scripture by the Doctors plain warrant and by all reason With all which whosoeuer is not contented but will needes extinguere spiritum extinguish Gods spirit and violentlie take from the Church the greatest comfort of all mans life that in this infirmitie of our flesh standeth in moste hope by his gift in remission of sinnes for which especiall cause the said spirit was mercifullie breathed vpon the Apostles peculiarly before the mare common sending of the same from heauen aboue If all this reason and iust demonstration of trueth will not serue them I will charge them with this graue conclusion of S. Augustine vttered partlie against the Nouatians especallie against the desperate that would not seeke for Gods mercie by the Churches ministerie in the sacrament of penance To be briefe I will speake it in English Whosoeuer he be that beleeueth no mans sinnes to be remitted in Gods Church and therefore despiseth the bountifulnes of God inso mightie a worke if he in that obstinate minde continue til his liues end he is guiltie of sinne against the holie Ghost in which holy ghost Christ remitteth sinnes FVLKE I doe greatlie commend you that you haue such regard of the readers ease and it seemeth you haue good confidence of your cause that you flie not the light of Logicall iudgement by which the trueth shall more plainelie appeere to all sortes of men then by anie discourses at large vnder which many great errors may be often couered vnder sophistical cloudes ambiguity of words which in a briefe syllogisme is soone and easilie espied To answere your argument therefore First I distinguish of your Maior for if you meane by seruice and ministerie the expressing and declaring of the will and pleasure of the holy ghost wherunto they are authorized I acknowledge your Maior proposition to be true whatsoeuer the holie Ghost maie doe in this case by the proper power of his godhead that maie the Apostles and Priestes doe by seruice ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost But if you meane by seruice and ministerie that the proper power of God is communicated to men I denie your Maior as false and absurde For the Apostles and Priests maie not by seruice and ministerie through the power of the holie Ghost forgiue sinnes properlie which the holie ghost by proper power of his godhead may doe for this is a proper power not com municable vnto any creature but a declaration of the will of him that hath such power is the ministeriall authoritie by which men forgiue sinnes Secondlie I answere that your conclusion is deceitfull For your Minor Extreame or Assumption is not perfectlie ioyned with your Maior or Proposition in the conclusion For your Minor is that the holie ghost properly rightlie doth remit sinnes So your conclusion should be therefore the Apostles properlie and rightlie doe remit sinnes by their ministerie
in stead of which word properlie you craftelie conueigh in the worde truelie so your wholl syllogisme is a paralogisme and may lawfully be denied Notwithstanding your conclusion as it is we do graunt that the Apostles do rightlie and truely remit sinnes by their ministery in the holie ghost but as it should be inferred vpon your premises we denie it which cannot be gathered but vpon a false Maior Whatsoeuer the holie ghost may doe properlie in remitting sinnes the Apostles may do by ministerie as properlie As for the comfort of mans life taken away by denying sinnes to be properlie forgiuen by Priestes is a fond cauill and meere slaunder For we acknowledge it a singular comfort of mans life that God hath appointed men by their ministerie to assure vs of his fauour and reconciliation in the remission of oursins And we beleeue with Saint Augustine that sinnes are forgiuen in Gods Church vpon earth acknowledgeing the bountefullnes of God in so mightie a worke anathematizing and detesting the Nouatians and all other heretikes that obstinatelie and willfullie mainteine the contrarie The power to remit sinnes is further prooued to be giuen to the Apostles by these wordes of Christ Whose sinnes you do forgiue c. by the Doctors exposition of the same and by conference of other wordes of scripture of the like sense THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN HOw the priestes of Christes Church haue defended this right and calling for remission of sinnes as wel by the commission that Christ first receiued of his father and afterward bestowed vpon them as by the assured receiuing of the spi rit of god from Christes blessed breath to the same and purpose I haue hitherto declared at large Now the third part of the place before alledged out of S. Iohns gospel concerneth the words of Christes promis and warrant made vnto his Apostles out of which wordes distinctly vttered we must see what force may be further added vnto our Catholike assertion for the pristes autho rity to remit and retaine sinnes And surely if none of the former wordes of commission nor any other mean or mention had beene made of the holy ghostes assistaunce herein these onlie woordes vpon the credit that faithful men owe to Christ had bin sufficient to haue assured the world of the authoritie of priesthood of the wholl cause that now is called in controuersie For what can be said either of god or man more properlie or more playnlie then this whose sinnes you shal forgiue they be forgiuen whose sinnes you shal retaine they be retained I must needes heree complaine of these vnfaithful and vnhappie times that in the continuall lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the booke of the Bible in endlesse contention and disputation of most high mysteries in them contained haue wholie conuerted the cleerest and onely vndoubted meaning of such places specially as moste touch the verie life and saluation of all mankinde and which be of all other thinges in termes of scripture most open and euident sull foolishlie and vnlearnedlie haue both the simple sort handled Gods word as in such grosse ignorance of al thinges they needes must and their new procured Masters also in not much more knowledge and farre passing pride can not otherwise do but whilest they plaie them selues in things of smaler importance they are to be laughed at rather then lamented but if the deuil driue them farther as he lightlie doth wherere he se quietlie possesseth and cause them to dallie and delude the places of scripture that principally concerne the state and saluation of vs al then we must with al force resist lest we leese the fruite and good of our Christianitie What can be of higher importance in the world or touch our soules and saluation so neere as the holie sacraments of Christ Church by which grace and mercy through gods appointment be procured yet these blessed fountains especiallie euen these waters springing euerlastingly to our life and comfort haue these men most infected FVLKE You fare as though we denied all power of remitting or retaining of sinnes whereas we do moste gladlie imbrace all such power as Christ hath giuen vs which we must so take as it be not dishonourable to the godhead that man should exercise that which is proper to God him-selfe The power therefore we graunt but what manner of power this is we must inquire whether an absolute power for priests at their pleasure as you speake afterward in this Chapter to forgiue sinnes properlie or a power to declare the same to be forgiuen according to the pleasure of God to them that repent and beleeue the Gospell and also whether this power is to be exercised by preaching the Ghospel or by auricular confession You spend manie words therefore in vaine to prooue the power and authoritie whereof we stand in no controuersie with you but what manner of power this is and by what meanes it is to be exercised As for the lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the bookes of the Bible doe argue that you complaine of sauoreth not of the spirit of Christ which willeth the scriptures to be searched as those which beare witnes of him To glory in the truth of Gods word contained in his holie scriptures is no vaine bragging but such as Christians ought moste of all to delight in The rest of your railing I passe ouer as vnworthie anie answere when whatsoeuer you prate in generall shal be founde false in speciall when you come to prooue the particulers ALLEN In the institution of Sacraments Christs wordes were euer plaine without colour or figure as wordes that worke with singular efficacie grace and vertue and therewith giue to the ministers iust authoritie for the execution of Christes meaning which could not be done in figuratiue speaches and parables without infinit error Did God speake parables when he instituted the solemnitie of so manie sacrifices in the olde lawe when he signified vnto Moses and Aaron euerie seuerall sorte of beast or creature with their sexe kind all the ceremonie thereunto belonging Did he speake parables when the sacrament of the lambe was to be instituted Did he speake by figure to Abraham when he commaunded him to circumcise the male of euerie of his people Did he speake by figure when he instituted the Sabbath Did he to be breefe euer in the olde lawe speake one thing and meane another when anie externall worke by the charge of his worde was to be practized for euer amongest the people In common speach in prophecying in preaching in similitudes in examples vttered for the declaration of manie thinges and for grace and varietie of talke to stirre vp mans industrie in searching the secretes of the trueth there figures of all sortes be vsed but where by externall wordes and actions force of inward grace must be procured or perpetuall vsages in the Church are
of Christ and his spouse the Church which you saie in no sauce we can abide as though wheresoeuer any mysterie is confessed to be there muste needes follow a Sacrament of the new testament ALLEN These fellowes therefore that dare be so bolde to disturbe all the orders and sacramentes of Gods Church and to mainteine their phantasies dare brust the sacred bandes of expresse scriptures in such pointes as doe directlie touch the wholl policie of our Christian common wealth and ordered waics of our saluation euen in those which Christ moste carefullie left to be practized for the vse of his louing slocke by the warrant of wordes moste plaine what shall we saie to such bold and impudent faces that thus dare doe and yet which I more mernaile at in this their vncurtesie and most vnhonest dealing will not sticke to crie and call vpon Gods worde as though they did that by scripture the contrarie whereof they expresslie finde in scripture And truelie where they be not holpen by the verte wordes vaine it shall be for them to stand with vs and with all our Fathers and with the practize of all nations and with the very expresse iudgement of the Church of God it shal not boote them I saie in their darke ignorance infinite pride to stand with vs hauing so many helpes for the true meaning and the expresse text of the worde for our selues and side FVLKE He must needes haue an impudent face and a wicked conscience that so shamefullie slaundereth vs to bereake the sacred bandes of the expresse scriptures wherunto we seeme to attribute al credit as though we denie any one word of expresse scripture do not affirme whatsoeuer the scripture doth affirme in expresse words or denie whatsoeuer the holy scripture in expresse words doth deny according to such sense and meaning as the scripture must haue as it is agreable to it selfe in all places The expresse wordes of scripture touching the Lords supper are these that it is the body blood of Christ we confesse and beleeue as much The expresse wordes of scripture concerning the Apostles authoritie in pardoning or reteining sinnes are as they haue beene often alledged we beleeue they and their successours of whome there is no expresse word haue power to remit or reteine sins The expresse words of scripture concerning the Lords supper are also The rocke was Christ we beleeue that the rocke was Christ. The cup is the new testament we beleeue that the cup is the new testament Also by expresse words to the Apostles there is graunted power to binde and to loose We confesse and beleeue that they haue power to binde and to loose And yet I trust we may be bolde to saie without breaking the sacred bondes of expresse scriptures The rocke was not Christ in nature of his humanitie and diuinitie but a sacrament of Christ. The cup is not the new couenant it selfe but that which is in the cup is an holie signe or seale thereof The Apostles had no power giuen them to binde men with chaines or coardes nor to loose the chaines coards of them that be bound by other but a spirituall authoritie to binde and loose spirituallie In like manner we doe not breake the sacred bandes of expresse scripture when we affirme that the Sacramentall bread and wine are not by transsbustantiation turned into the naturall bodie and bloode of Christ or the bodie and blood of Christ in the sacrament are not corporallie receiued but spirituallie For the contrarie of these we finde not expresselie in the scripture So when we saie the Apostles had not power to remit sinnes properlie which is peculiar onelie to God but to aslure men in Christes name whose embassadours they were of the forgiuenes of their sinnes by Christ we breake no bandes of expresse scriptures For we confesle the wordes according to their true meaning agreeable with other places of scripture that teach it to be peculiar to God to remit sinnes properlie An embassadour is said to make peace or warre when he declareth according to his commission his Princes determination of peace or warre The Kinges Liuetenant hauing such commission offereth or graun teth pardon to rebells or other offenders where he doth onelie declare the kinges pleasure in pardoning or releasing their offences As for the Popish bragge of all our fathers with the practize of all nations and the verie expresse iudgement of the Church of God to be for your assertion how vaine it is will easilie appeare when you come to cite fathers shew forth the practize of all nations declare the iudgement of Gods Church and when the contradictorie shall be manifestlie prooued and brough forth against you ALLEN Sometimes where it may appeare that the wordes and outwarde face of scripture serue not our assertions so plainlie as the holie traditions of Christes Church doe there they call vpon vs with infinite clamours to abide the iudgement of the word which they would be thought to esteeme aboue all mans meaning But whether would they now runne thinke you where all our sacraments stand vpon euident words more then words vpon the verie expresse notorious action of Christ him selfe al instituted sincerelie to be practized of the Church after his de parture hence all commended in knowne termes of greatest moste efficacie that could be not by way of preaching in which he vsed sometimes figures not at such time as he vsed other then common knowne speach but after his resurrection when he now vttered no more parables as he did before that such as faw should not see and such as were of vnderstanding might not vnderstand but did open vnto his dearest their senses that they might vnderstand scriptures and more carefullie expressed his meaning for the instruction of his holie Disciples to the better bearing of that charge which he meant to leaue them in after his departure whither will these men I saie where they see all thinges so enuironed with trueth whither will they flie The scriptures be plainlie ours the Doctors they dare not claime reason is against them there is then no waie to beare it out but with boldnes and exercised audacitie Yet here we wil assay by the notorious euidence of this one cause that we now haue in hand to breake their stonie heartes to the obedience of Christs Church word for whose faith if they haue seene great light force of argument allready shal yet see much more I trust they wil not stil with stand the knowen truth FVLKE We will runne no further for the vnderstanding of Christes wordes concerning the institution and practize of his holie sacramentes although we haue the consent of the moste auncient and approoued doctors of the primitiue Church as witnesses of the same That the sacraments are commended in knowne terms of greatest and most efficacie that could be we cofesse but therof it followeth not that they were not in some part commended by figuratiue speeches
to the proper power of God touching the release of the guiltinesse of sinnes although in executing of discipline they maie pardon the exercise of repentance that is appointed for triall of the parties true penitencie or some part thereof which as it is enioyned by the iudgement and discretion of men so they may by the same release it as vpon good cause they thinke conuenient Where you say that Priestes may pardon or retaine mans sinnes of al sortes as wel in the sarcrament of penance al that be confessed as in publike iudgement You thrust in diuerse matters whereof there is neither mention in the text nor anie necessarie collection to be made of them out of it as the sacrament of pennance whereof there is no outward element or signe instituted then your kinde of penance which includeth some peece of satisfaction for sinnes last of all your auricular and particuler confession as though genetall confession and acknowledging of mens sinnes before God might not obtaine remission of sinnes in his sight And as though if anie sinne be not remembred in shrift the priestes remission extendeth not vnto it or if it were remembred and be hypocriticallie concealed yet the remission were good auaileable for al other sinnes that are confessed Againe it is an insolent power you giue them in open Iudgement that they may at their pleasure where Iustice requireth correct the open offender For though you seeme to qualifie their pleasure by iustice yet to ascribe that to their pleasure which is laid vpon them of necessitie what warrant haue you for it For if they maie at their pleasure they neede not except it please them Finallie your argument holdeth not that as in exercising of discipline they maie chastice the offender by the censures of the Church so they may giue due punishment for sinnes 〈◊〉 in shrift Neither are those two endes you alledge true For the chastisement of sinnes pertaineth not to them but to God and the ciuill Magistrate and the iustice of God violated by sinne is satisfied by the obedience and suffering of our sauiour Christ. Wherebie also it should follow that the power of remitting of sinnes were made void and frustrate if men must endure due punishment which you call penance for the satisfying of Gods iustice by sinne violated AILEN The other text of holie scripture containing Christes wordes to Saint Peter seuerallie by certaine notable circumstances of the letter and by wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him giueth the chiefe of all his Apostles in more ample termes and beneficiall clauses this power and perogatiue also To him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock for our Master gaue him that name new at his first calling in signification of further intent and purpose which he here vttered and vpon this rocke will I set my Church and hell gates shall not preuaile against it That so said he thus spake in plaine termes Et tibi dabo claues regni caelorum Et quodcunque ligaueris super terram erit ligatum in caelis quodcunque solueris super terram erit solutum in caelis And to thee wil I giue the Keies of the Kingdome of heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde in earth it shall be bound in the heauens And what thou loosest in earth it shall be loosed in the heauens This promis made vnto Peter and performed no doubt after his resurrection when he committed to him the feeding and gouernement of all his deare flock both yong and olde doth exceedinglie import a wonderfull incomparable soueraigntie and-iurisdiction ouer mens soules For a mortall man to receiue the keies of Christes Kingdome and by them to binde loose to lock out and let in before our Master Christ who had the full iurisdiction therein it was neuer heard of And when the holie Prophets do meane to set out the great and passing power giuen by God the father to his onelie sonne in earth they vse to expresse the same often by the termes of keyes as when the Prophet Esaie saith I will laie the keies of the house of Dauid vpon his shoulder he shall shut and there can none be hable to open and he shall open so that none can shut agiane And Christ him-selfe speaking to his beloued Iohn in the Apocalips saith I am the first and the last I am aliue and was dead before and I haue the keies of death and hell The keies therefore euer signifying power andgouernment of the houshold was giuen to Christ as to whom being the principal and most excellent rectour of his owne Church that he bought so dearelie they moste duelie belong But he communicated vnto Peter as to his speciall stewarde the vse of the same for the gouernment of our soules with exceeding much preheminence both in binding and loosing Yet I do not remember that anie of the olde writers do put anie great difference betwixt the authorities of Peter and the rest of the Apostles concerning the remitting of sinnes which is a thing perteining indifferentlie to the wholl order of priesthood and therfore no more proper to the Pope or Peter then to Priestes and Apostles though Origen noted well that the iurisdiction of Peter seemed by these words to be enlarged aboue the residue by that our sauiour said to him that whatsoeuer he bound or loosed in earth it should be loosed or bound in the heauens where to the rest he spoke of heauen onelie in the singular number I speake onelie of this latter clause of binding and loosing with the keies thereunto belonging For there is no doubt but great preheminence of rule and iurisdiction is promised before in the sametext now recited and els where actuallie giuen vnto him more then to the rest of his breethren Neuerthelesse euen this power of binding and loosing common to all the holie order was in him first seuerally planted for the commendation of vnitie and order as Saint Cyprian sath and so the same authoritie giuen to other might yet after a sort be deriued from his fullnes of power and perogatiue as from a fountaine FVLKE The other text of scripture containing the wordes of our sauiour Christ to Peter seuerallie giueth to him as you saie this power and prerogatiue also As for the not able circumstances of the letter the wordes of great graunt spoken singularlie to him the more ample tearmes and beneficiall clauses let vs examine what they are and whether they be of force to make him chiefe of all his Apostles First to him it was onelie said thou art Peter which is as much to saie as a rock what then ergo he was chiefe of all the Apostles who is so madd to gtaunt the consequence To the sonnes of Zebede onelie it was said that they were Bonarges that is the Children of thunder ergo they had greater authoritie then the rest of the Apostles But of all the Apostles it was said
that they are the twelue rocks or stones the foundation of the walles of the new Ierusalem Apoc. 21. 14. and the Church is builded vpon the foundation of all the Apostles Eph. 2. 20. Secondlie you saie the promis made to him Ioan. 1. Math. 16. was perfourmed no doubt after his resurrection when he committed to him the feeding of all his sheepe yong and olde Ioh. 21. 2. We graunt as much but that it doth exceedinglie import a wonderful incomparable soueraigntie and iurisdiction ouer mens soules greater or other then was equally graunted to the rest of the Apostles we see not how it can be inferred of anie scripture Euerie one of the Apostles being sent into all the world to teach all nations and to preach the Gospell to euerie creature hath as generall authority to feede the shepe of Christ both olde and yong as Peter Thirdlie you saie for a mortall man to receiue the keies of the kingdome of heauen and by them to binde and loose to lock out and let in before our Master Christ who had full iurisdiction therein it was neuer heard of But we read that the samekeies were committed to the scribes and Pharisees and teachers of the law which they did shamefullie abuse and therfore are threatned by our sauiour Christ woe be to you teachers of the law for you haue taken awaie the key of knowledge and neither you your selues do enter and you forbid them that would Woe be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees ye hypocrites for you shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men For neither you your selues do enter nor suffer those to enter that would enter Luk. 11. Mat. 23. here you note inthese places the key of knowledge by which the kingdome of heauen should haue beene opened taken awaie and the kingdome of heauen shut vp from them that gladlie would enter if they knew which way The keies in deede do signifie power and authoritie but that onelie Peter hath those keies and not the Church and euerie true Pastour of the same or that Peter by them had greater power and authoritie then the rest of the Apostles which had them also you shall neuer be hable to make demonstration Your remembrance serueth you well that all the olde writers do make no difference betweene the authoritie of Peter and the rest of the Apostles concerning the remitting of sins But you do forget that the power of bynding and loosing was by our sauiour Christ graunted equallie to all the Apostles and to their successours though it were once singularlie vttered to one The subtiltie of Origen to make a difference betweene binding and loosing in all the heauens and in one heauen onelie beside that it is vaine in it selfe yet is it not brought of Origen to dignifie Peter aboue all the Apostles whome both vpon the place of Mat. 16. and this also he confesseth to haue receiued equall power with Peter but to prefer Peter and such as Peter was before them that haue thrise reprehended offenders and beeing not heard haue bound the sinner vpon earth iudgeing him as an heathen or publicane whereof he inferreth Quanto melior fuerit qui ligat c how much better he is that bindeth by somuch he that is bound is bound more then in one heauen and how much better he is that looseth by so much he shall be more happie that is loosed for he is loosed in all the heauens The greater preheminence of rule and iurisdiction the fullnes of power and prerogatiue deriued from Peter as from a fountaine be matters of bolde assertion but void of all manner of proofe or demonstration ALLEN But we will not stand hereon now nor yet to put difference betwixt these wordes and tearmes loosing or remitting binding or retaining nor to dispute whether these two textes more properlie signifie the authoritie and iurisdiction giuen to the spiritual Magistrates for punishing by temporal pain enioyned and releasing by mercie as they see occasion the same appointed penance againe or els it properlie concerneth the verie release of sinne it selfe or retaining the sinne which they vpon iust causes will not forgiue These thinges would grow to ouer tedious a tale and ouercurious for the simple whome I would moste helpe in these matters and I shall briefllie touch so much hereof as is necessarie hereafter when I shall dispute of pardons For in deede these two textes of binding and loosing as well spoken to Peter as to the residue afterward shall be the ground of our wholl discourse there and therefore till then we must touch these textes no further but as in common pertaineth to remitting or retaining sinnes For they are brought indifferentlie of the holie fathers with the foresaid wordes of Saint Iohn in which as I haue declared the verie institution of penance and Priestes iudgement of our soules and sinnes be moste properlie grounded Theresore that by all these wordes so often vttered by our sauiour you maie well perceiue the verie literall and vudoubted meaning to be that Priestes haue authoritie by Christes warrant to remit and retaine sinnes I will recite one or two places of most auncient fathers that they ioyning with such plaine wordes of sundrie places of scripture maie make all most sure to such as can by anie reason be satisfied First Ialledge the saying of S. Maximus an olde author a blessed saint He doth by conference couple together these textes whereon we now stand thus hespeaketh verie pithely therefore you shal heare his owne words Ne qua vos fiatres de creditis Petro clauibus regni more nostrarum clauium cogitatio terrena promoueat Clauis caeli lingua est Petri quam singulorum meritae censendo Aposiolus vnicuique regnum coelorum aut claudit aut aperit Non est ergo clauis ista mortalis artificis aptata manu sed data à Christo potestas est iudicandi Denique ait eis quorum remiseritis peccata remissa erunt quorum detinueritis detenta erunt Thus he saith in our tongue Least anie earthlie cogitation mooue you to think of anie such materiall keies as we occupy in earth when you heare of committing the keies of the kingdome to Peter you must thus vnderstand that the key of heauen is Peters word or tongue because the Apostle weighing well euerie of our deserts openeth or shutteth to euery man the kingdome of Christ. This key therfore is not made by mortal mans hand but it is the power of iudgement giuen by Christ. To be briefe he saith to them al whose sins you shal forgiue they shal be forgiuē c. Thus saith Maximus ioyning together fitly two textes for one purpose out of both maketh a moste forcible argument that the iudgement of our soules which is a passing authoritie and the verie letting in and keeping out of heauen is addicted by the keies to Peters and the Apostles ministerie For which cause also S. Gregorie calleth all Christes Apostles and the iust occupiers
For at this daie the Bishops that be throughout all Christendome how rose they to that roome The Church calleth them fathers and yet shee did beget them and she placed them in that roome of their fathers Non ergo reputes desertam quia non vides Petrum quòd non vides Paulum quòd non vides illos per quos nataes de prole tua tibi creuit paternitas pra patribus tuis natisunt tibi filij constitues eos principes super omnem terram Do not therefore think thy selfe desolate because thou hast not Paull because thou hast them not now present by whome thou wast borne of thy owne issue fatherhood is growne to thee and for thy fathers thou hast brought forth sonnes them shalt thou make the rulers ouer al the earth Thus much out of Saint Augustine By whome you maie perceaue the great prouidence of God that euerlastinglie vpholdeth the ordinance of his sonne Christ Iesus as well now by the children borne from time to time in the Churches lap as before in the spring of our faith by the Apostles sent and appointed in person by Christ him-selfe FVLKE I suppose the title of your booke will admonish you not to restraine this office onelie to Bishops which so often you haue made common to all priestes For Gregory also in the same homyly nameth often times all pastours of the Church to whome the power of binding and loosing doth appertaine which are many other beside Bishops Moreouer inueighing against the ignorance and vnworthines of them that occupied such places which take vpon them to loose where God doth binde and binde where God doth loose he concludeth that then the absolution of the gouernours of the Chuch is true when it followeth the will of the eternall Iudge By which saying and more to the like effect in that place he declareth his iudgement of the kinde of power or authoritie which the Church hath that it is not absolute but subiect vuto the will of God and is an expressing of Gods forgiuenes or retaining not a proper forgiuing or retaining The saying of Saint Augustine prooueth in deede a continuance of the ministery of the Apostles in the office of Bishops but hereof it followeth not that onelie Bishops as they are distinct from priestes haue this power for not onelie Bishops be the children of the Church but all faithfull men to whome the inheritance of the world is like wise appointed ALLEN And here you must know that not onelie Bishops who succeede the Apostles in all kinde of power and regiment but also all other inferiour Priestes to be compted with them as successors in ministring diuerse sacraments as baptisme penance the reuerend Sacrament of the Aultar and such like but looke what power either Apostle or Bishop hath in remission of sinnes in consecrating Christes bodie in baptizing the same hath the wholl order of holie Priesthood by the right of their order and maie practize the same vpon such as be subiect vnto them in all causes not exempted for reasonable causes by such as haue further iurisdiction ouer the people Wherof I will not now talke particularlie the learned of that order know the limits of their charge and commission better then I can instruct them and the simpler sort must seeke for knowledge of their duetie by the holie Canons of Councels and decrees of Bishops made for that purpose I can not now stand thereon meaning at this present onelie to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Chistes owne word giueth which in this contempt of vertue and religion is moste necessarie for all men to consider FVLKE There is no power or authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ to preach the word of God or to minister anie sacrament but the same is common to euerie one of the Pastoures of the Church and not onelie lawfull but also necessarie for them to exercise in their seuerall charges Wherefore that ministering of some sacraments is permitted to them and of other denied them it is beside the word of god Againe the word of god that giueth them general power whose sinnes soeuer whatsoeuer you shal bind or loose is directlie against al exempted cases which sauor of nothing but of Antichristian tyrannie As for the cannons of Counceles and decrees of Bishoppes whether you send the simple to learne the limites of their charge can not restraine that Christ hath enlarged and therefore if your meaning were as your wordes professe to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Christes owne worde geueth you would enueigh against the pride and ambition of the Pope other prelates that exempt anie cases from the Priests power and authoritie which the holie scripture and the expresse wordsof our sauiour Christ doth in such ample manner graunt vnto them ALLEN Therefore vpon our large discourses for this last point I now deduct the particulars to this summe which maie stand for a certaine marke as well for the good to discerne the trueth as for the aduersaries to shoote at whiles they liue Alpower and euery iurisdiction or right of Christs Church remaineth as amplie and in as full force and strength at this daie and shall till the worlds end so continue as they were by Christ graunted first in the persons of the Apostles or other instituted But the power of remission of sinnes was giuen properlie and in expresse termes to the Apostles Ergo the same remaineth still in Gods Church Whereupon it is so cleare that the Priestes at this day haue as ful power to forgiue sins as the Apostles had And this argument of the continuance of all offices and righte of the Church is the moste plainest and readiest waie not onelie to helpe our cause now taken in hand but vtterlie to improoue all false doctrines and detestable practises of heretikes For they must here be examined diligentlie what common wealth that is what Church that is in which Christ doth prescrue the gouernment giuen to the Apostles where it is that the power not onely os making but also of practizing al sacraments hath continued still what companie of Christian people that is wherein the Apostles Doctors preachers ministers through the perpetuall assistance of Gods spirit be continued for the building vp of Christes bodie which is the number of faithful people What Church that is which bringeth forth from time to time sonnes to occupy the romes of their fathers before them It is not good reader the pelting packe of Protestants It is not I saie and they knowe it is not their petie congregations that hath till this daie continued the succession of Blshoppes by whome the world as Saint Augustine saith is ruled as by the Apostles and first Fathers of Religion Surely our mother the Church hath hene long baren if for her Fathers the Apostles who died so long since she neuer brought forth children til now to occupie their roomes and
in this age by the singular mercie of God to the vndoubted saluation of many thousands The outward preaching of Christes Doctrine is not the proper worke of Christ but common to all his true and faithfull seruantes the Prophettes Apostles and their successoures Bishopes Pastours and teachers It is Christ as Austine saieth that teacheth inwardly by his spirit from heauen and is the author of the doctrine that is taught on earth in which respect he saith He that heareth you heareth me c. But it is the voice of man that vttereth this Doctrine in the outward eares of men and not the voice of Christ. ALLEN But to beare downe the aduersaries of trueth fullly we will ioyne with them touching the sacrament of extream vnction the sacrament of baptisme and such other in which they cannot nor doe not denie concerning one of them but man without all derogation to Gods honour remitteth sinnes And how can it here seeme strange that in the sacrament of penance God should by mans office remit mortall crimes seeing it cannot be denied but God vseth not onelie mans ministerie but also the externall seruice of bare and base water which is much inferiour by nature and dignitie to a Priest or anie other man to take awaie sinnes both originall and actuall in the sacrament of baptisme in which sacrament seeing aswell the Priest is the minister as the water an instrument whereby God remitteth all sinnes be they neuer so many and grieuouse whether they be committed by their owne acte or by our fathers ofspring why doth it dishonour God any more that the Priest should be the minister of remission in the sacrament of penance then it doth by as great an office almoste in remitting of sinnes in the sacrament of baptisme Againe read the Epistle of S. Iamer and you shall finde the Priest made a minister the oile an instrument in the extreamitie of sicknes to forgiue sinnes how much more is the priest without anie imparing of Gods power the worker vnder him of our reconciliation and pardoning in the sacrament of penance in which especiallie the grace of God is giuen aboue all other sacraments to that onlie end and purpose I may be more bold to vse this comparing of sundrie Sacraments together because not onely Saint Ambrose refuteth the Father of this fond heresie by the same reason but also because moste of the Doctors of the Church doe confesse that she euer had these waies to remit mans sinnes by without derogation to Christes soueraigntie herein of whome onelie she holdeth her right as well in the sacrament of penance as in baptisme or extreame vnction Saint Chrysostome saith Neque enim solùm cùm nos regenerant sed postea etiam condonandorum nobis peccatorum potestatem obtinent infirmatur inquit inter vos aliquis Accersat presbyteros Ecclesiae Neither haue Priests power in baptisme onelie but afterward also they haue good authoritie to forgiue our sinnes Is any man feeble amongst you saith he Call for the Priests of the Church let them saie praiers ouer him annoint him with oile and the praier of faith shall saue the sicke and if he be in sinnes they shall be forgiuen him But this sacrament instituted by Gods word and Christes authoritie vsed of olde and well knowne to all the Fathers is now become nothing in our building Sinne is now a daies so fauored that no sacrament may be abiden for the release thereof The verie expresse wordes of Scripture can take no place where flattering of wickednes and phantasie ruleth to the contrarie FVLKE Touching extreame vnction we shall speake anone but of baptisme we saie that to speake properlie man baptiseth with water vnto repentance as an outward seale of the forgiuenes of sinnes Christ onelie baptizeth with the holie Ghost and with fire actuallie and effectuallie to purge and clense our sinnes Of the sacrament of penance we must first be resolued before we can acknowledge any office of man to remitte mortal crimes therein If Christ had instituted a sacrament of penance as he hath of baptisme we wold acknowledge the like effectes in the one that we doe in the other Concerning the anointing with oile spoken of in Saint Iames whereunto besides bodelie health remission of sins was promised it was a sacrament while that special gift of healing continued but no instituriō of perpetuall continuance Chrysostome citeth this text of Saint Iames to prooue that not onelie in the sacrament of regeneration but afterwards also the Priests hath power to remit sinnes not onelie by teaching and admonishing but also by helpe of praier But of anie perpetuall sacrament there is no mention in him neither was it instituted by our sauiour Christ with anie commaundement of perpetuall continuance as babtisme the Lordes supper are but onely so long as the gift should continue Neither doth Saint Iames giue it in charge as a perpetuall sacrament but onelie admonisheth the Church to vse that benefit of healing so long as it should remaine with men ALLEN There be some that affirme this annoiling to haue beene a miraculous practise to take awaie the diseases of the sicke and therefore that it did decaie with the working of other the like miracles which after the spring of our religion were not vsual But that is a fond glosse For I aske of thē whether the people then Christianed were instructed or rather commaunded to call for the Apostles or others to heale them miraculously of their diseases or whether all Priestes had the gift of working miracles in the Primitiue Church If they saie yea touching the first piont then as well were they charged to send for them to reuiue them after they were dead because the Apostles so could doe when they same occasion and so did by some But that is plaine absurde and false that euer Apostle gaue in charge to anie man much lesse to make a generall precept as S. Iames here doth to seeke after miracles for that were to tempt God And for the second they are not so vnreasonable to answere me that all Priestes could worke miracles which is a seuerall gift of the holie Ghost from the power of their ministerie and therefore Saint Iames would not haue charged the sicke persons to haue called indifferentlie for Priestes to heale them miraculouslie the gift of miracles being not common to them all nor perpetuallie promised to anie of them all Againe I would knowe of them whether there was anie miraculous healing that had the remission of sinnes ioyned vnto it or to the externall creature by which they healed any person If they saie yea then it followeth that the Priestes might by the office of that creature heale a man of his sinnes which they affirme to be blaspemie and dishonour to God But to what absurditie so euer you bring them they will not confesse mortall men in externall Sacraments to remit sinnes FVLKE You are better aduised now concerning Caluines iudgement of the oile where
you We maruaile not why Christ hath giuen authoritie to man to forgiue sinnes whose ministerie he hath vsed in all times both by preaching his worde and by administring his sacraments to dispense his misteries vnto the rest of his Church vpon earth But that God doth not ordinarilie remit sinnes but by the ministerie of the priest nor any way ells for the moste parte but by externall acts we maruel how you are able to prooue it seeing God often times vseth many other occasions then the priests ministerie to bring men to repentance and without all waies of externall acts or sacrifices to assure men of the remission of their sinnes by faith But this admiration altogether passeth the reach of our capacitie to vnderstand how it may be conuinced That all priestes by warrant hereof may challenge all manner of interest in the gouernement of our soules It were much to challenge any interest in gouernment of our soules which is proper to our Sauiour Christ but to challenge all manner of interest in gouernment it sauoureth to stronglie of Antichristian presumption that any Christian should abide it The Apostles in exercise of their calling acknowledged them selues not onelie to be the seruants of God but also of the Church for we preach not our selues saith the Apostle but Iesus Christ and our selues to be your seruants for Iesus Christ. It is a ministerie and not a Lordeship that we must exercise not as temporall Princes who although they may be saide after a sorte to serue the common wealth yet they are so seruants as they are also Lordes But the ministers of the Church in their spirituall gouernement are seruants and not Lordes as Saint Peter testifieth therefore they cannot iustlie challenge all manner of interest in the gouernement of our soules For if they might we should haue many Lordes of our soules and denie God our onelie lorde our Lorde Iesus Christ our onelie sauiour ALLEN Much more might be said out of diuerse holie fathers much out of the decrees as well of Bishopes as Councells the authoritie wherof no Christian Catholike did euer reiect In Lateran in Florence and in Trent Councells Penance is decreed to be a sacrament and of necessitie to all such as fall into deadelie sinne after Baptisme The minister thereof by their holie determination is a Priest lawfullie ordered the remission of sins is in them all challenged to be his right not onelie by declaration that God hath or will pardon them nor by the preaching of the Gospell nor any other waies newlie deuised by the Deuill to delude Christes ordinance and misconstrue his plaine wordes But properlie is the priest prooued to be the minister vnder God of reconciliation and therefore may by his wordes absolue men in the saide sacrament of their sinnes as in Christs owne steade whose honourable iudgement seat byhis commission and the holie ghosts assistance he doth lawfullie possesse And so surelie doe Gods ministers holde this power and preheminence that no power or dignitie of man could euer be so well warranted and approoued by Gods owne worde and practize of all ages and nations christened as this is All the Princes in earth though they reigne full righteouslie can not yet shew the tenth part of the euidence that Gods priests can doe for their title of remission of sinnes and it booteth not mee in this my base state to admonish them though I hartelie wish they would consider it that the contempt of spirituall iurisdiction and the dignitie of priesthoode salleth at length to the difobedience of all temporal power and wicked contempt of ciuil gouernement also as in these disordered daies we may to our great griefe beholde when vnder pretence of religion and Gods worde whereof they haue no more respect surelie then the Deuil him selfe hath they haue disobeied not onelie Peters keies but also Cesars sworde Neither let any man thinke that where the bands of conscience the awe of gods maiestie the feare of hell and damnation the hope of heauen and saluation is remooued that there can be any ciuil obedience long Feare of man is much flatterie of man is more but bond of conscience passeth them both Thiu therefore haue Gods priests made account of their calling and long practised power of remitting and reteining the peoples offences FVLKE Whatsoeuer you can saie out of any auncient fathers will not prooue your intent of shrift and pardons your sacrament of penance is but a young beginner that can shew no auncienter councells for her authoritie then Lateran Florence and Trent the eldest of which is not much aboue 300 yeares olde and yet in the place you send vs vnto Confession is straightlie commaunded but penance is not decreed to be a sacrament Declaration of the pastour by preaching that God wil pardon al penitent sinners you count to be awaie newlie deuised by the diuil to delude Christes ordinance and misconstrue his plaine wordes as though your deuelishand blasphemous witte and tongue were hable to prooue out of Christes wordes your popish shrifts penance and satisfaction to be of Christes ordinance whereas it hath beene the doctrine and practize of all the Prophetes and Apostles to preach remission of sinnes to all that truelie repented and were turned vnto God and by authoritie of their commission receiued from God to assure all such of perfect forgiuenes of all their sinnes To compare the euidence wherby they holde this authoritie with the right of princes wherby they holde their croune so farre to preferre it is a point of antichristian and anabaptisticall presumption For ciuill Princes haue as cleere euidence in the scripture to auouch al their lawful authority as priestes haue to exercise that whereunto they be called Otherwise the particuler calling of euerie priest must leane vpon aiust title as well as the aduancement of princes into their throne and much more or els they haue not so great euidence as you talke of For a Prince being in the throne by what right soeuer he possesseth it is to be obeied But a minister of the Church except he be lawfullie called is not to be regarded You haue great cause to complaine of these daies that vnder pretense of Gods word and religion temporall and ciuill power is disobeied and contemned where there is no such manifest examples of such disobedience contempt as in your popish Northern rebellion and in an hundreth other vile attemptes to wring the scepter out of the hands of Gods anointed and your most lawful Prince vnder pretense in the Deuils name of religion and the Catholike Church But such religion and such a Church as aloweth in Italian Priest to depose anie Christian Prince from his throne God of his infinite mercie deliuer this Ileland and graunt all true subiectes of the same to yealde their faithfull obebience to their Godlie Prince not onely for feare but alfo for conscience Here it is prooued that b mitting sinnes the duety the right of the Priest
they are not crowned if they be not didicated But if they be washed in their own blood this mans will pietie also hath washed him Againe he saith speaking in an Apostrophe to him Quis dabit tefrater fratrem mihi lactentem vbera matris meae hoc est non quicunque te sed Christus illuminabit gratia spirituali ille te baptizauit quia humana tibi officia defuerunt Who shall giue thee brother to be my brother sucking the papes of my mother that is not euerie one but Christ him selfe shall lighten thee with spirituall grace He hath baptized thee because the seruice of man was wanting to thee By all which wordes it is manifest that S. Ambrose vnderstood not those wordes of our sauiour Christ of externall baptisme as you doe when he refuseth not them that haue a purpose and will to be baptized and are preuented by necessity of time But where you proceed and dare be bolde to saie that neuer man was saued that either contemned or neglected confession if you meane popish auricular and as you after call it sacramentall confession I dare be bolde to saie you speake vntrulie because the word of God prescribeth no such confession as necessarie to saluation Confession of that we beleeue and of our sins before God I knowe to be necessarie to saluation Neither can you prooue that they which dispise popish shrift be contemners of Gods ordinance for the Minor of your syllogisme that followeth is a lowd lie that your popish sacrament of penance and confession made to the Priest is the appointed meanes that God vseth in his Church for remission of mortall sinnes for God hath appointed no such sacrament or confession as necessarie meanes without the which remission of sinnes may not be obtained Your similitude of baptisme will prooue nothing except you can first prooue your confession to be of Gods institution as necessarie for doing awaie sinnes committed after baptisme as baptisme is by Christs ordinance the seale of regeneration by which we are assured of the remissiō of our sins ALLEN And yet me thinke I heare alreadie the sounde of the deceitfull voices of our Preachers It is Christes bloode that remitteth sinnes Come to me all ye that are heauie loaden and I shall refresh you I am he saith the Lord that putteth awaie thy sinnes with a thousand such like as though Christes bloode did not stand with Christes ordinances and sacraments as though they came not to Christ that keepe the waie of his will and sacraments to come vnto him as though God did not remit those sinnes which in his name and in his sacraments and by his appointed minister be remitted Protestant saie plainlie will thou refuse baptisme because Christes bloode washeth awaie originall sinnes If thou darest not openlie so preach although couertly thou maie chaunce so intend how darest thou deceiue the people and draw them from penance and confession because Christes blood doth remit sinnes For if the one sacrament may stand with the honour of God and with all those places that thou bringest so deceitfullie out of the scripture why may not the other seeing both are prooued alike to be instituted of Christ For the same selfe sauiour which said Come to me ye that be loaden and I shall refresh you he and no other said except you be borne of water and the holie Ghost you cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen The same God that said I am he that putteth awaie thy sinnes saith now to the Apostles and Priestss whose sinnes you doe forgiue forgiuen be they The same Spirit of God that said in the Prophet Confesse your selues to the Lorde for he his good said now againe in the Apostle confesse your sinnes one to another that you maie be saued By which he meaneth not as Origen venerable Bede and other doe declare so much brotherly acknowledging sor counsellor other causes the greefe of minde ech man to his fellowe as he doth the order of sacramentall confession to be made vnto gods Priests as it may well appeere by the circumstance of the letter For there he had willed them to send for the Priestes of the Church to annoile them streight after addeth this alledged text of confession and praing ouer the sicke The which place the heretikes sawe to sounde so manie waies as well towardes the sacrament of extreame vnction as the sacrament of confession both which they haue vnworthilie abandoned that they thought it not amisse either to denie the Apostles authoritie and the wholl epistle as no peece of holie scripture as Luther and other did or else which was after thought more handsome conueiance to corrupt the text and write instead of send for the Priestes of the Church thus call the elders of the congregation For they thought it might sounde euill to haue in one sentence priestes Church confession remission of sinnes release of paines for sinne annoiling praying ouer the sicke and so forth FVLKE It is no deceitfull voice of our preachers to affirme by these and a thousand such like textes of scripture that it belongeth to God onelie to forgiue sins properlie satisfaction being made for them by the bloode of Christ. And yet we derogat nothing from Christes ordinances and sacraments by which he worketh effectuall assurance of the same We acknowledge the ministerie of the Apostles and their lawful successours for the remission and retaining of sinnes both by preaching and by ministering of the sacraments instituted by our sauiour Christ. But we denie and dare stand to the deniall with all the papists that hath beene are or shal be that popish penance and confession is anie sacrament of our sauiour Christes institution for he that said whose sinnes you forgiue forgiuen be they hath not said whosoeuer will haue his sinnes forgiuen by you must haue some penance by you inioyned for satisfaction of Gods iustice yea there is nothing more contrarie to forgiuenes then satisfaction made by the partie to whome sinnes should be forgiuen And he that said confesse your offences one to another and praie one for an other that you maie be healed saith no where confesse all your sinnes vnto a Priest that you may be saued but willeth a mutuall acknoledgeing and reconciliation of one Christian man to another where there hath bin anie trespasse of such offences as one man hath committed against another and a mutuall acknowledging of our sinfullnes one to another that we may be sturred vp to mutuall praier By which textre the Priest is asmuch bounde to shriue himselfe to his parishioner as the parishioner to the Priest But Origen and Bede are alledged to prooue that the Apostle meaneth not onlie of such acknowledgeing nor so much thereof as the order of sacramental confession Verilie when the wordes of the scripture are plaine the sense 〈◊〉 to be gathered of the plaine words we may not restin anie mans opinion that is contrary to the same The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
not flowed vnto them Like as they make not the sacrament in vnleauened bread but in leauened 5. di 1. cap. si Therefore that saying of Iames confesse your sinnes one to an other was at the first but of counsel or els is should binde the Greekes notwithstanding the custome That which followeth in the glosse that confession in some case may be made to a laie man which also both Gratian Lumbard doe holde that which Bede writeth of confession of sins to euery man doth prooue that confessio to a priest is not of Christs institution by their iudgement For if it were it ought to be of all euery sin as wel as of those you cal mortall to a priest onelie For if Christ instituted a sacrament in these words whose sins you forgiue c. and ordeined a priest minister thereof by no other meanes but by hearing a sin ners particular confession as you seeme to holde what reason is there that a laie man should be a hearer of confession or an absoluer or that any sin be it neuer so small should not be confessed ALLEN And that is yet more euident by the second parte of Christes sentence where he saith whose sins you do reteine they be reteined The which worde retinere by Saint Hilarie signifieth non soluere or non remittere to reteinis as much as not to loose or not to forgiue Whercupon by Christes expresse wordes it ensueth that whose sinnes the priest doth not forgiue they be not forgiuen and therfore that euerie man beeing guiltie of deadelie sinne in his conscience is subiect to the priests iudgement by the plaine tearmes of Christs owne wordes Mary we must well note that the priest hath in other sacraments and namelie in Baptisme a right in remitting sinnes both originall and actuall but there in the graund pardon of all that is past he is not made a iudge or a corrector because the Church can not practize iudgement or exercise discipline vpon the penitents for any things done before they came iinto the householde and therfore can appoint the party no penance nor punishment nor binde him according to the diuersitie and number of his faultes nor can make search exactlie of all his secres sinnes by him committed that the sentence may proceede according to the parties desertes but onelie vpon his seeking that sacrament to minister it vnto him according to Christs institution whereupon without any sentence of remission giuen by the priest as I absolue thee or such like a pardon generall of all his sinnes committed if he come thether qualified most assuredlie ensueth But now in the other sacrament of penance not onelie pardon of sinnes but punishment for sinnes is put in the Apopostles and priests handes which can not be done without iudiciarie power and exact examination of the penitent because Christ would that if any did greeuouslie sinne after Baptisme he shold as it were be conuented before his iudgement seate in earth in which as in his roome he hath placed the Apostles priests as is alreadie prooued And therefore mens sinnes must in this case be knowne with diuersitie of their kindes and encrease by diuersitie of place time person number and intent For withoout this particular intelligence can neither the appointed iudges of our soules doe iustice nor the penitent receiue iustice for his offences Therefore it is euident that seeing this holie order is authorized not onelie to remit sinnes generallie as in Baptisme but also placed with all power ouer vs as the iudges of our sinnes we must needes by force of Christs institution be driuen to acknowledge and confesse all our sinnes to the Priest so sitting in iudgement vpon the examination of our conscience For no man euer tooke vpon him not in any ciuil causes to determine and giue sentēce in the matter whereof he hath not by some meanes or other persit and particular instruction and in causes criminall much lesse because the importance of the matter is much more Then in Gods causes and cases of our conscience and in things belonging directlie to mans euerlasting wealth or woe which is the life or death perpctuall of our soules there if either negligence in the iudge in searching out of our sins or consempt in vs in declaration opening confessing or cleare vtterance of them doe hinder the righteousnes of Gods iudgement executed by the Priests office or driuing them to giue wrong sentence of deliuerie and remission there the perill is exceeding great and the daunger wel neare damnation perpetual FVLKE Although to reteine is somewhat more then not to loose or not to forgiue yet the conclusion is true that whose sinnes the minister of the Gospell doth not forgiue of them that heare the Gospell they are not forgiuen But herofit doth not follow that euerie man is bound to shriue himselfe to the priest If you meane that by being subiect to the priests iudgement the minister of the gospell denounceth damnation to all impenitent and obstinate sinners vnto this sentence he is subiect by the plain tearmes of Christs owne wordes that is such a one But if he be truelie penitent in the sight of God he is absolued by the sentence of the minister which pronounceth in the name of God forgiuenes to all them that be truelie conuerted vnto God Wherefore here is no place for the necessitie of auricular confession except you can draw it in by the wordes of demonstratiue syllogismes which I suppose to be impossible and you your selfe shall in conscience confesse no lesse whensoeuer you dare goe about it As touching the difference you shew betwixt the priests office in remitting sins by Baptisme and penance it standeth altogether vpon your owne surmise without any authoritie of the holie scriptures For the minister of the ghospelis made as much a iudge whome to admit and whome to refuse from the sacraments as he is to pronounce whose sins be forgiuen and whose reteined Other iudgement or correction he hath not in the one nor in the other neither is there any punishments put into the Apostles or priests handes for those sinnes that are to be pardoned nor pardon to those that are to be punished The punishment is no lesse then the sentence of eternall damnation vnder which all obstinate and vnrepentant sinners doe remaine so iong as they continue in their obstinacie and impenirencie And therefore the power iudiciarie and exact examination of the penitent and the conuention before Gods iudgement feare in earth which should be the priest is nothing but imaginary vanitie without all ground of authoritie out of Christs institution wherefore except you can prooue that Christ by giuing his Apostles authoritie to sorgiue or reteine sinnes did giue this inordinarie power that you speake of and set vp this iudgement on earth like to the courts in ciuill iudgement in canonicall causes whatsoeuer you saie without warrant of Gods worde is as easily by vs denied as by you it
scelus suum faucibus contagia funesta 〈◊〉 Dominicorpus inuadunt c. Almoste yet belching out the deadly meates of their Idoles the iawes as yet breathing out their owne wickednes sauoring of the deadelie infection they set vpon our Lordes bodie And immediately before the wordes by you cited Plus modò in dominum manib atque ore delinquunt quà m cum Dominum negauerant They doe more offende now against the Lord with their hands and their mouth then at such time as they denied the Lorde These wordes declare of what kinde of men of what kinde of sinnes of what kinde of confession and of what kinde of satisfaction this Doctor doth speake whose vehemencie tendeth to the maintenance of discipline being in great daunger of decaie by the vntimelie and vngodlie lenitie of some flattering Church men in those daies that would reconcile such vnto the Church by admitting them to the communion which after their moste greeuous fall and deniall of Christ before men had not giuen sufficient tokens and testimonies of their hearty repentance before God without the which the wrath of God iustly kindled against them for their henious offences couldnot be appeased Hetherto therefore for the necessitie of auricular confession we haue seene nothing that anie learned protestant might voutchsafe of anie answere as for the scriptures giuing the Priest so plaine power as wel of binding and retaining as of loosing and remitting doe laie no necessity vpon anie man to confesse vnto them the particularities of his secret faultes nor giue any authoritie vnto the priestes to exact the same I saie not by expresse wordes but not by any necessary illation or conclusion out of the expresse words of the scripture which we holde to be of as great credit as that which is contained in expresse wordes As for the vniforme consent of all ages and the mosie notable persons in the same whereof you make your cómon vaunt can neuer be shewed for the necessitie of auricular shrift no nor for anie other point of poperie though you would make choise of the eldest error that you holde That you take the Churches practize in al ages to be the moste surest way to touch and trie truth by you declare what reuerent opinion you haue of the word of God which our Sauiour Christ saith is the truth wherin he praieth his father to sanctifie al his disciples vnto the worldes end Vnto which rule of truth al practize of mé must be exacted and by it be tried For what mad blasphemie were it to saie that the word of God which was before all practize the onelie trueth of touch hath now lost his credit or the best part thereof if practize of men in all ages be now become the most surest waie to trie and touch trueth by as if the manners of men were alwaies the best interpretation of the lawe That confession hath euer beene vsed of all mortall sins in all countries and ages since Christes time it is prooued by the witnes of moste learned fathers with an answer to such things as out of the Fathers be sometimes obiected to the contrarie THE 11. CHAP. ALLEN I Am the longer in this approoued trueth because I remember what Saint Chrysostome saith And I see by these daies that it is verie true which he writeth Multa arie opus esse vt qui laborant Christiani vltrò sibi 〈◊〉 persuadeant sacerdotum curationibus sese submittere That it is a point of high wisdome and cunning to bring to passe that Christian men which are sicke in soule would persuade themselues to submit in all causes them selues to the priests curing For indeede in Nectarius his predecessours daies there was such an offence arose in the simple sorte and such a tragedie in Constantinople Church by the naughtie fact of a deaton there that their Bishoppe was glad to make the state of penance which then was often published euen for priuat sinnes to be a great deale more free then before Whereupon the people tooke occasion of such libertie and licentious life that when their common Penitenciarie by the commaundement of Nectarius was remóoued they were exceeding loath to confesse or doe iust penance for their sinnes actuall Though that good man condescending to the peoples weaknes meant neuer to take awaie that wholl order wherein he had no authoritie because it is no politike prouision but Christes institution but onely that the penance should not be publike except the party listed of those sinnes which were to the said Penitentiarie confessed in secret Which fact of his though perchaunce it was necessarie for that time yet was not allowed of the writers of the same Historie As a thing saith Sozomenus that brought much dissolute life and alteration of the peoples manners into the Church Yet our aduersaries are in such aistresse for their maintenance of their contrarie assertion against holie confession that they be not ashamed to alledge this mans doubtfull example Which if it were good and to be followed yet made it nothing against shrift which they cal now auricular confession or if it did make against the whole Sacrament euerie waie ministered yet it could not of reason be followed being but one bishoppes compelled act and that disalowed euen of the reporters them selues and prooued to be euill by the practize of all Churches christened to the contrarie FVLKE Chrysostomes wordes by you translated if you had not falsifyed in translation by adding of your owne these wordes in all causes which are neither in the originall Greeke nor in the latine version make but a small shew for the necessitie of the auriculer confession For in that place Chrysostome sheweth how much more difficult the office of a spirituall shepard is then the charge of a bodely herdman by this that the shepperd of vnresonable sheepe may both see the diseases of his cattell and also compell them to take his medicines and diet but the spirituall shepheard cannot alwaies see with what diseases his flocke are infected neither can he compell them but must exhort them willinglie to submit them selues to his cure whereby he meaneth his doctrine of admonition reprehension and such like But because you make mention of a storie and doe not expresse it and yet excuse Chrysostome thereby in any thing that he hath written sounding against the necessitie of confessing before men of sinnes committed in secret as though he durst not fullie set downe his iudgement thereof before the peo ple. I will set forth the storie as it is reported by the Ecclesiasticall writers Socrates and Sozomenus Socrates L. 5. C. 19. writeth thus About the same time it was thought good to take awaie those elders or priests of the Churches which were appointed ouer publike repentance vpon such cause Since the time that the Nouatians were deuided from the Church for that they would not communicate with them that had fallen in the persecution that was vnder Decius the Bishops of the
they be but thinges indifferent you doe not wiselie to be contentious about them Finallie seeing a companie of heretikes maie erre in one article and teach soundlie in all other as the Arians Donatists Nouatians and such like a man maie followe the iudgement of such a companie in all other points and without follie or signe of fantasticall choise departe from them in that one wherein they erre And therefore your faith was as good as his that beleeueth there is a man in the moone because he heareth manie men saie so whome he dare credit in other matters and is loth to forsake them in this ' one But your Christian profession mooued you to follow the Churches iudgement in all things And what heretike will not saie as much without triall or proofe which is the Church or what is Christian profession Therefore what ground had you that your profession was Christian or your felowship the Church of Christ You confesse you had neither the determination of generall councells nor the decrees of the chife gouernours of your Church nor the practise of the people in diuers ages by which waies you saie the Churches meaning of doubtfull thinges is moste assuredlie knowne but onelie you deeme the Church allowed them So that you because such as bare the name of Christian folke and Catholike men did approoue them had nothing but the bare name of Christian folke and Catholike men to ground your deeme vpon And is the bare and onelie name of Christian and Catholike men so sure a ground to build faith vpon without either the authoritie of the scriptures reason determination of general councels or decrees of the chief gouernours of the same or the practise of the faithful in auncient times then surelie Iet all heretikes content themselues where they are and dwell togither for there they shall haue the name of Christian folke and Catholike men which you account to be the breefest rule in the worlde for an vnlearned man to keepe himselfe both in faith and conuersation with that companie which by the generall and common calling of the people be named Catholikes The rule indeed is verie briefe and you saie in the margent also that it is good But who I praie you prescribeth this rule doth God the author of trueth where finde you it in his worde shall the generall and common calling of the people be the vnlearned mans rule to direct him to the Church which is the piller and staie of truth then surelie the vnlearned Grecians Aethiopians Armenians and other that dissent from the Church of Rome and from the truth it selfe haue a good and briefe rule to holde them where they are for by the generall and common calling of the people in those partes of the world they be named Christians and Catholikes Yea the rule serueth them ten times better then you Papists the forgers of it for they haue the more generall and common calling of the people to be Catholikes in those places then you haue here in Europe by a hundred parts For there no man calleth them otherwise then Christians and Catholikes here you haue God be praised many hundreth thousandes of the people that commonlie call you Papists heretikes antichristians Cacolikes and such other names agreeing to your heresies If you will cauill that by the generall and common calling of the people they be not named Catholikes because you Papistes doe neither so call them nor count them they maie answere you by the same reason that you are not by generall common calling of the people named Catholikes because neither they nor we doe so call you or account you But it is fufficient belike that you call your selues so and the rule is to be restrained to people of these partes of the world and among them to Papists onelie and so it is as good a rule as that aske my fellow if I be a theefe A good rule indeed for vnlearned Papists because draffe is good enough for swine which had rather sleepe in the myre and puddle of ignorance then come to the knowledge of the truth by searching the scriptures in which Christ the waie the truth and the life is to be found and out of which all Christians ought to gather knowledge that they maie be able to giue account of that hope that is in them But Saint Augustine I wene should be author of this rule for vnlearned men although he himselfe were not vnlearned Contra epistolam Manichaei quam vocant fundamenti Cap 4. This is great impietie to faine so absurd a rule and then to slaunder so godly a father to be either the author or approouer therof For Saint Augustine indeed against the Maniches which were a particuler sect of heretikes confesseth that among manie other thinges the name of the Catholike Church did holde him in the bosome thereof but not that the onelie name of Catholikes was a good rule for vnlearned men to know the Church by But protesting to reason the matter with them without anie preiudice and to trie the trueth without anie rashnes as one willing to yeald vnto thē if they can perswade him with trueth so that they shall not require him to yeald before they can giue him a cleere reason without anie darkenes of allthinges pertaining to the saluation of his soule thus he beginneth In Catholica enim Ecclesia vt omittā c. For in the Catholike Church that I maie omitte that moste sincere wisdome vnto the knowledge where of a fewe spirituall men doe come in this life that they maie knowe it but of the lest part because they are men but yet without doubt for the rest of the multitude not the quicknes of vnderstanding but the simplicitie of beleeuing doeth make moste false Therefore that I maie omitte this wisdome which you beleeue not to be in the Catholike Church there are manie other thinges which maie moste iustlie holde me in her lappe The consent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begunne with miracles nourished with hope increased with charitie confirmed with antiquitie holdeth me The succession of Priests from the verie seate of Peter the Apostle to whome our Lorde after his resurrection commended his sheeepe to be fedde vnto this present bishoprike doeth holde me last of all the verie name of Catholike Church doth holde me which not without cause among so manie heresies this Church alone hath so obtained that whereas all heretikes would haue themselues to be called Catholikes yet to a straunger that asketh where men meet at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shewe either their owne Church or house Therfore these so manie so great most deare bondes of Christian name doe rightlie holde a man that beleeueth in the Catholike Church although for the dulnes of our vnderstanding or the desert of our life the tructh doth not yet shewe it selfe moste openlie But among you where none of these things is that maie inuite or holde me there soundeth nothing
but much be confirmed in my faith thereby And yet all this while though the matter of pardons seemed to me to be more and more sound in it selfe and as true as the Spirit of God is true who was the author thereof in the Church yet I did not then consider of it as a thing of anie great importance but I conceiued it to be a small matter subiect to a certaine iugling in reason such as wicked men lightlie make their close and craftie entrance by to more mischiefe and further attemptes against the common faith of the Church I could not then conceiue which I after ward so plainlie and now more and more by the better surueie of the cause do perceiue that in this one falsehood there was couertlie conteined the verie pith of falsehood and improofe of the greatest matters which life and faith doth stand vpon FVLKE Your first motiues to this faith of yours were not more feeble then your confutations in the same were fond and foolish You did reade the storie of the alteration in religion that hath fallen in our time But of whose writing I praie you euen of such as were proctors for the Popes pedlarie ware or pillers of his pretensed power which was none other but according to the prouerb before mentioned aske my fellow if I be a thiefe If you had read the storie written indifferentlie without partialitie to either partie you might haue iudged better of the wholle matter Some perhapes are liuing that can testifie of the things that were done publike monuments are extant totestifie the same so much more intollerable is your arrogancie to iudge vpon the onelie sinister report of the aduersaries of Luther of holie and blessed memorie with all true Christians that onelie contention and couetousnes mooued him to condemne that which himselfe in conscience knew to be true and lawfull Like boldnes you shew in affirming that Luther was the first in all mans memorie sauing one 〈◊〉 that despised pardons forgetting the Waldenses that were long before Wiclefe and the Bohemians that were after him before Luther who condemned popish pardons as much as Wiclife or Luther For they condemned the Pope to be Antichrist as much as these did But now let vs examine the storie as it is knowne to be moste true in Saxonie where Luther first found fault with pardons When Pope Leo. 10. had sent abroad his pardons which were preached by Terelius a Dominike frier in such impudent manner that they seemed to serue for no end but the Popes couetousnes and the licentiousnes of the people Luther at that time hauing a zeale of God but not according to knowledge did mildelie and modestlie admonish the people of the deceites and abuses of pardons and pardoners which long before his time were reprooued in the Councells of Latrean and Vienna he complained to the Archbishoppe of Ments to the Bishop of Branderburg to the prouinciall of the Augustine friers and to the Pope him selfe in all thinges submitting him selfe to the Pope and Church of Rome so it were not against the holie scriptures When he could finde no equity nor redresse of these abuses which euen Surius the papist confesseth to haue bene iustlie complained of by him and vniustlie manteined or dissembled by the prelates he proceeded farther as God gaue him knowledge and at length compelled by intollerable iniurie and neglect of manifest trueth and reformation of lise did cast of the Anrichristian yoke of the Popes obedience Now whereas you charge him with contention and couetousnes the world your iudge before maie gather whether Luther if against his conscience he would haue set forth the Popes pardons especiallie at such time as the Pope had great neede of monie for warre against the Turkes might not haue made a more easie waie for him selfe to honour and ri hes then by setting himselfe against them But howsoeuer it was your fault faith was thus confirmed and that to such blasphemous boldnes that without authoritie of the holie scriptures the matter of pardons seemed to you as true as the spirit of God is true and hauing none other arguments to perswade you but that Papistes called them selues the Catholike Church and condemned Luther of manie heresies and write in their stories that Luther was mooued by contention and couetousnes to oppose him selfe against them you nothing doubted but that the spirit of God was author of popes pardons in the Church Beeing now resolued of the substance you were not yet perswaded of the quantitie but thinkeing the matter at the first was but small at length you came to a perfect knowledge how great and weightie it is and how it draweth with it all other waight in so much that the verie pith of the greatest matters of popish life and faith doe stand vpon it If then the pith of the greatest matters of poperie doe stand in Popes pardons and this pith hath no ground either in the scriptures or the fathers of the Church for a thousand yeares after Christ we maie the more easily see that the plant of poperie whereof pardons is the pith is not of Gods owne planting and therefore shal be plucked vp by the rootes ALLEN Thou wouldest not thinke I dare saie into what a summe and abridgment heresie hath by the Deuilles deuise and Luthers seruice drawne her selfe into For by this one false conclusion and for maintenance thereof this man and his posteritie haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne haue spoiled the Church of her iust and and moste necessarie discipline controlled Gods owne holie vsage incorrection of his children haue entered into his secrets of the next world and there abandoned the place of his iustice and iudgement for sinnes that be remitted but not enough to his wisdome and will corrected haue robbed the holie Saints of all their merites that is to saie Christ of his giftes and grace whereby onelie they besosoneraigne and satisfactorie haue imbarred the bodie mysticall of Christ of the benefit which the wholl and euerie member thereof should receiue by the satisfaction and holie workes of the common head which is Christ haue broken the communion of Saints and the sweet felowship of all the holie members of Gods Church and the benefit which riseth frometh to other by mutuall participation of their good works and desertes and to be short haue by this one falsehood preached against pardons done iniurie to Christ to his Church to his Saints and to his sacraments and haue mightelie shaken the whole frame of Christian religion and doctrine I doe not here riot in wordes to ouerrunne my aduersaries in talke or to make more of the matter then it is but assuredlie without destruction of all these so necessarie articles of our faith there can no man defend Luthers doctrine against Indulgences I knowe he fumbled at the beginning otherwise then his fellowes and followers to disgrace the same sometimes by holding the pardons to be lawfull but not
of thē aboue 40. daies at once except it be at the dedication of a Church thē he hath but one yeare this authoritie also pinched with diuers restraintes whereas the pope smelling the sweetnes of them since the Laterane councel in which his modesty is comended that though he had fulnes of power yet he vsed it not to be ouerlauish in graunting of pardons hath bro ken al banks of moderation graunted 10000 20000. 40000. 100000. yeares of pardon yea generall pardons ofIubelie à poena culpa from all sinnes and penances due for them whether men haue erred by misconstruing the case and what orderlie method you haue obserued with regard of the peoples capacitie we shall consider in that which followeth For the true meaning of Pardons and to remooue some vntrue surmises touching the same it is declared that the Pope neuer tooke vpon him by pardoning to remit deadlie sinne much lesse to giue anie man license to sinne THE SECOND CHAP. ALLEN FOr the vnderstanding therefore of the tearme Pardon or grace or Indulgence let it be oansidered that proper lie they import not the remission of anie deadlie crime considered in them-selues and as seperated from the sacrament of penance nor yet signifie anie release of eternall damnation or euerlasting punishment which onelie allwaies is remitted when the deadlie sinne for which it was due is forgiuen For there can no power in earth be so great nor any mans iurisdiction so simple that he maie forgiue mortall offences since the institution of the sacrament of penance except he vse the confession of the partie with his contrition and sure intent neuer to commit the like againe yea and with purpose to satisfie the iustice of God by Christes grace as he maie according to the enioyning of his iudge therein For God him-selfe because he is righteous and true can not forgiue anie man his sinnes either by this sacrament of penance or otherwise being of yeares and time of discretion except he be penitent for the same that is to saie except he be both contrite and at the least willing to confesse his offences if it be after relapse and to suffer due correction therefore And seeing God can not pardon anie man of his deadlie sinnes except he be thus qualified much lesse maie a mortall man be he neuer so great in dignitie or calling in the Church take vpon him to forgiue or pardon him that is guiltie of deadlie sinne and damnation without the confession and submission of the penitent as is premised All this trueth hangeth orderlie vpon the necessitie of the sacrament of Penance and Christs ordinance therein whereby he hath made deadly sinnes onely remissible in that sacrament by the confession of the partie to a Priest who hath in his order receiued power to remit them as is sufficientlie prooued in the former parte of this treatise and it is onely a Priest whether he be of base state or high dignitie that can lawfullie loose mens sinnes as by the key of his order as they terme it with sufficient iurisdiction ouer the penitent for the secret discussing of his conscience in this sacrament of Confession FVLKE This wholl Chapter conteineth nothing but positions without any ground of authoritie of scripture or testimonte of Doctours as though it were sufficient onely to affirme them which if they be not graunted all that followeth of Pardons is nothing worth The first is That Pardons do not properly importe the remission of any deadly crime or the punishmēt due for the same The reasons that followe serue to prooue that pardons for deadlie sinnes and the paine due for them are vnprofitable but they prooue not that they doe not import such remission either by the Popes intendement or by the pardoners preaching of them or in the opinion of the purchasers and receiuers of them The glosse vpon the Clementine l. 5. de poenitentiis re missionibus c. 2. yealding a reason why the Pope reproueth the pardoners which toke vpon thē to graunt ple nary remission of sins to absolue men à poena culpa hath these wordes à poena culpa ista est plenissima peccatorum remissio quae conceditur cruce signatis pro subsidio vltramarino c. quam solus papa concedit From the paine and the fault this is a moste full remission of sinnes which is graunted to them that are marked with the crosse for aide beyond the sea which the Pope alone doth graunt by which it appeereth that the Pope taketh vpon him iustlie to graunt pardon of all sinnes mortall and veniall which the pardoners vniustlie presumed to do without sufficient warrant So doth Pope Boneface the 8 the inuentor of Iubilie pardons graunt Non solùm plenam largiorem immo plenissimam omnium suorum veniam peccatorum not onelie a full and large pardon but a most full pardon of all their sinnes If the pope speake vnproperlie when he vttereth such emphatical and superlatiue speeches how shal plaine men vnderst and what he meaneth I know that some of the Canonistes who haue more care that his decrees should hang together then the Pope him self when he graunteth pardons for aduantage do interpret the word peccatorum to signify paines due for sins yet by this cursed glosse that corrupteth the text release of eternal paine due for deadly sinne is not excluded The author of the glosse confesseth that this epistle was verie grosly made Haecepistola satis grossè fuit composita and therefore it must be healped by glosses for their sakes that can dispute against it but for the common people it is good enough in the literal sense In so much that the glosse saith vpon the word plenissimam Sed quomodo ista compatiuntur plenā largiorem plenissimā Dico Papam interpretatum fuisse in consistorio me presense hane indulgentiam adeo plenam prout clauium potestas se extendet quod intelligo prout verba patiūtur But how do these words hang together the one abide the other a ful a more large a most ful pardon I say that the pope in the consistory in my presense did interpret this pardon to be so ful as the power of the keies doth extend it selfe which I do vnderstand as the words doe suffer Whereby it is manifest that the Pope restraining the fullnesse of his open pardon sent into all the world by his priuie interpretations in his consistorie doth nothing els but delude the world by his pardons as it shal more plainly appeare by the rea sons that are afterward brought forth to defend them from the pretended slaunders of their impugners But further to prooue that the Pope hath taken vpon him by pardon to remit deadlie sinne I alledge a Bul of confirmation graunted by Pope Leo the tenth anno 1513. Sept. id martij Pontif. anno primo the copie wherof is printed with the subscription of two publike notaries to testifie that it agreeth with the
the beginning of this Chapter that the satisfaction limited by the Canons was agreeable in all points to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God required for answer of his iustice Further you must remember that the Canons did limit times of penance not onelie for an act of sinne but also for customable continuance in such sinnes as you may see in the decrees of Iuo quoted by you before and in the Ancyran Councell Now if you will faine a man to be such a monster as that he haue committed all these sinnes for which the Canons doe limit times and haue continued in them also accustomablie yet by those Canons he could not deserue so many thousand yeares of penance as the Pope graunteth of pardon Nay if you make your Audit of the times limited sor all offences adding all the daies yeares and Lents prescribed in the Canons together you shall not finde the sūme of one thousand yeares of penance due to be inioyned if a man had commited al those sinnes Whereof it followeth that so many 1000 yeares as haue bin ordinarily graunted by the Popes pardons can haue no such meaning as your dreame of Audit and account surmiseth and so it remaineth that these numbers of yeares were multiplied onelie to set a greater price of the pardons so to robbe both the purses of the people and deceiue their soules For the old Canons neuer appointed anie time of penance for anie time exceeding the time of a mans life but 7. yeares 14. yeares 24. yeares c or to the end of a mans life at the most and alwaies the partie to be receiued at his end though he had not accomplished his time perfixed It is not the time appointed by the old canons therefore that can excuse so manie thousand yeares of pardon for paine to be suffered in purgatorie seeing you acknowledge the time by them limited to be limited by the spirit of god as agreeable in all points to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God requirerth for answer of his iustice But blessed be god who hath taken sufficient satisfaction to answer his iustice in the obedience suffering of Iesus Christ which is our iustice in whome seeing we are made the iustiee of God we neither feare Allens Audit for purgatorie nor desire the Popes mercie for pardon ALLEN Neither is it necessarie for the due paiment of that great debt of so manie yeares that the paine of purgatorie should endure so long or so manie yeares as had bene necessarie for the accomplishing of his penance in this life For the might the force the hougenes the excesse and the nature of the paine in the next world is so fearefull and so great as Saint Augustine often noteth that a great deale lesse time sufferance of the same is answerable to much more in the world and this present life For what comparation is there berwixt a daies fasting here a daies punishment in purgatorie better it were surely to suffer a hundred yeares such penance as the Church prescribeth in this mortall life that hath in it much worldlie ease and comfort for the release of the inioyned paine then to abide one daie or wecke in so greeuous a torment as the holie Doctours and all the Church holdeth Purgatorie to be Therfore to forgiue such a greeuous sinner in the latter end of his life receiued to mercie as we haue now spoken of a thousand or two thousand yeares of penance is as much in effect and nature of the termes as to remit and release him of so much punishment or the debt and bond of so much punishment in purgatorie as is proportionall and correspondent to so manie daies or years of penance as the penitent in this life was bound vnto by the Canons of the Church or the iust inioyning of his Ghostlie Father For the Pardons measure the matter not by the limites of Purgatorie the bonds borders or waie of limitation whereof the Church knoweth not but by the yeares and times of penance prescribed to sinners by the holie Canons vpon the bond wherof Gods iustice temporall in the next world doth as I haue prooued much depend To be short then plaine to giue a pardon of a 10001. or 2000. yeares or moe if the graunt goeth so is as much to saie as to forgiue so much punishment as might be answerable for so great penance not fullfilled in this life As if I were behinde with the Church and indebted to God hard before my death of a hundreth daies fasting in which case I cannot recompence if my Bishoppe then or the chiefe head of all the Eccle siasticall Hierachie doe forgiue me twenty of the said daies then my punishment shal be so much lesse in Purgatorie not by twenty daies I saie of Purgatorie paines but by as much as in force of satisfaction there is answerable to twentie daies fast here So that the Church measuring her mercies by the yeares of penance deserued by the law in this life or else where taketh effect not onely in this life where there cannot be so manie daies in our short time but especially in preuenting Purgatorie paines where there may well be punishment answerable in a verie short time to all the daies prescribed by the measures of the lawe and discipline of our present daies in the world FVLKE If the fire of Purgatorie be so much hotter then this elementall fire as this is hotter then a fire painted on a wall as some of your owne Poetes haue fained you maie adde this imaginarie proportion of greatnes of paine against length of time And whoe can let you to imagine what you list seeing you require to be credited vpon your bare worde without authoritie of scripture or witnes of the auncient Doctors But the holie Doctors you saie and all the Church holdeth purgatorie to be so greeuous a torment and Saint Augustine noteth it often namelie in Psal. 37. Verilie Saint Austen in that place saith that the fire by which some that builde strawe hay c. vpon the fundation Christ shal be more greeuous then anie thing that anie man can suffer in this life but else where he can say nothing of certaintie of the fire of Purgatorie whether anie such fire after this life be or no as de fide operibus c. 6. de oct dulcit qu. 1. as I haue shewed more at large in confutatiō of your booke of purgatorie You quote Origen also but I knowe not how nor what to finde by your quotation but certaine it is that Origen knew not the Popes purgatory although he allegorize of a certaine purgatory which neither the papists themselues do alow and it teacheth the heresie wherewith he is charged that the deuills and all wicked persons at length shall be saued To conclude the old canons graunting remission to euerte man that is preuented by death at his last end had no meaning of anie recompence of yeares and daies in Purgatorie as without all
conuenient that the release of deserued penance should be had of euerie inferior priest lest the discipline of the church should so become contemptible the release thereof being made common to so manie And it is the high prouidence of God that the waie to remit 〈◊〉 allie sinnes which is of necessarie to our saluation should be neere vs in euerie place and by the common ministers of the Church at al times to be obtained where the remission of the Churches discipline being more necessarie to be fulfilled and neuer or verie seldome necessarie to be whollie released should not be so easely obtained but hardlie had at the handes of a sex and them of excellent authoritie and reuerence in Gods Church FVLKE Throughout this booke he therto you haue ioyned the Bishops with the Pope in graunting of indulgencies as though their power in pardoning had beene somewhat proportionable vnto his But now you beginne to shake them of and it will appeere plainelie that hetherto you haue concealed how litle a peece of pardoning power is allotted to bishops and infinit authoritie left with the Pope wherem either the popish councell of Laterane too much abased the bishoppes or else the Pope too much hath aduanced his practize But in the argument of the Chapter you doe well and honestlie confesse that the scripture prescribeth nothing of the lawful ministers of these remissions by the same reasō you should confesse that the scripture prescribeth nothing of such kinde of remissions For God neuer graunteth anie power or authoritie but he appointeth also who shall be the laufull exercisers and executors of the same And if simple priests as you cal them haue authoritie to inioyne penance which is to binde by the plaine wordes of Christ they haue authoritie also to remit which is to loose But the iurisdiction and externall regimens of the Church you saie agreeth not to them which haue no further iurisdiction but in the secret court of mans conscience Let that be as you saie yet it were reason that as farre as their iurisdiction extendeth they should remitte and loose in the secret Court of mans conscience where they did binde although they gaue no publike pardons Neither can the vsage of anie auncient time be alledged against this that I saie nor the prescriptions of the auncient Canons which were made and practized of publike penance openlie inioyned in which the inferior priestes were prohibited to reconcile or remit without the knowledge of the Bishoppe But as there was no penance priuatlie inioyned by Priestes so there was no prohibition that it should not priuatlie be remitted of them by whome it was appointed The reasons that you alledge of the inconuenience of releasing of penance by euery inferior Priest are of no valewe for the discipline of the Church should be no more contemptible in releasing of tempor all penance then in releasing of eternall 〈◊〉 which power you allow to euerie hedge Priest Againe the punishment of so manie thousand yeares in purgatorie should not with such difficultie be obtained if either crueltie or couetuousnes in the Pope did not prohibit Where you saie the Church discipline is neuer or seldome to be wholy released you reprooue the Popes often Iubilies and dailie plenarie Pardons graunted of course to anie man that will buy them ALLEN And not onely that but also the nature of the act of pardoning doth wholie chalenge this function of the higher Magistrates of Christes common wealth For it standeth not onelie vpon the remission of debt but also vpon recompence of reparing againe the band thereof by the common treasure of the whole housholde of the faithfull which can not be by reason despensed and bestowed vpon anie man that lacked by any but such as are principall stewardes and rulers of some whole portion of the said familie as Bishoppes lawfullie succeeding the Apostles are known in this case to haue receiued the keies of Christs kingdome and the dispensing of his holy mysteries and therefore maie instly dispose the treasure of Christ and his Saintes satisfactions to the benefit of the faithfull in whose lardge cures it can no otherwise be thought but there be the merits of diuers holy and blessed men laied vp in store before God for the releefe of their brethren which maie be disposed at the Blshoppes wisdome to such namelie as be of his owne charge and regiment But of particular parishes it cannot be certaine that there should alwaies be some sufficiencie of aboundant satisfactions to remaine without decaie for the continuall bestowing vpon some of the said small circuit and that is it which the schoole diuines saie In particulari Ecolesta merita non sunt indeficientia merites of Sainctes be not vnspendable in particular Churches But the communion of Saintes being the generall benefit of the wholl common wealth of Christes Church continueth for euer by the aboundance of manie holy workes which may satisfie for other mens sinnes according to the disposition of such as be the gouernours and guiders of our soules that the ouerplus and aboundance of one sort maie euer releeue the lackes of an other sort as S. Paull speaketh in the like matter FVLKE The next argument to prooue that priestes cannot pardon is because the disposition of the treasure out of which the paiment goeth by reason pertaineth to none but to such as are principall stewardes and rulers of some wholl portion of the familie as bishoppes c. But are not priestes also stewards and rulers of their owne parishes which are also wholl portions of the familie and consist of many partes Whie maie they not then be dispensers of that vnknowne treasure you speake of You answer that in the large cures of bishoppes it cannot otherwise be thought but there be the merites of diuerse holy and blessed men laid vp in store to be bestowed by the Bishop to such as be of his own regiment but merites of Saints be not vnspendable in particular Churches Marke this reason well for hereof it followeth that the super abundance of Christes satisfaction which you make to be the ground of this imaginarie treasure is not of force of it selfe without the helpe of the merites of saints Secondlie the communion of Saints whereupon you would ground another parte of this treasure of satisfaction being limited by diocesses and not by parishes leeseth the nature of a communion which extendeth it selfe vnto al vnto whome it is common For if the merit of Christ were sufficient to ground a pardon vpon the priest in his parish beeing a steward of Christes satisfaction might graunt a pardon but because he lacketh perhapes the merites of Saints he maie not presume so much vppon Christes satisfaction alone Againe if the merites of Saints were founded vpon the communion of saints why should not the merits of the saints of the wholl diocesse yea of the whole world be auaileable and appliable to euerie man of euerie parish by the particular gouerner and guider of the
for the warre of the Heluetians it is a wonder to see how he termeth it sedition and insurrection stirred vp by Zuinglius whereas it is certaine that the fiue Cantones of the Popish faction by intollerable iniurie prouoked them of Zurek and Bernes to lawfull warres whose cause if it had bene neuer so vniust yet might it not be termed insurrection because they were states of themselues and ought no obedience to the other The rebellion of Wiat and practises to kill Queene Marie were neuer allowed by the teachers of the gospell in England And Knookes his booke was misliked and forbidden to be solde euen at Geneua where it was put in print But the Pope the head of the Popish faction hath not onelie 〈◊〉 vp rebellion against the moste honourable Prince of Europe Queene Elizabeth in England but also hath sent his standard and Souldiers to inuade her dominions in Ireland And to omitt the traiterous writing of Saunder Bristow what is more vile then that beastlie Bull of Pius the fiste against our saide moste noble soueraigne confirmed by that hypocrite which now sitteth in the chayre of Pestilence at Rome with a faculty graunted to Parsones and Campiane by which he licenseth the Papists to dissemble their obedience vntill publike execution of that Bull maie be had that is to be priuie Traitours till with hope of successe they maie be open rebells The Scottish Queenes behauiour hath so much dishonoured her Person that Frarine is to be pardoned if he spake any thing in her praise before the vttermost of her reproch was made manifest to the worlde The rebellion of the gentlemen in Sueuia and of the commons in Denmarke I passe ouer as Frarine doth seing if it were vnlawfull our religion alloweth it not if it were vpon iust cause and by sufficient authoritie it is vniustlie called rebellion and vprore But he cannot omitt the late treason and cruell conspiracie of the Hugonites in Fraunce whereof Caluin was dictatour and generall Beza lieuetenant Othomannus and Spisamius petie captaines whoe can refraine laughing to heare these pleasant deuises but least you should thinke he iested he saith these were the chiese doers indeed though they vsed the names and seruice of certaine of the Nobilitie to beare out the brunte whilest they slept as the Knaues in the stocke and as for the other they were but their trumping cardes Such pesantes he maketh all the Princes and Noblemen which tooke armes to deliuer the King and his Mother from captiuitie his lawe from oppression and his subiects from cruell murther and tyrannie Yet he confesseth this tragedie had a peaceable beginning for they gat a lawe by force and extorsion saith he against the King and Magistrates will and pleasure Marke how probablie he speaketh A lawe was made whereunto none gaue assent that had authoritie to make a lawe But their consent was enforced for the Parliament of Paris made answere at the first we cannot we will not we ought not But afterward they were compelled to let the bill passe and so the edict of Ianuarie was made Here is force here is extorsion and compulsion alledged to elude the authoritie of the lawe but by what persons what meanes and in what manner it is not shewed in one word And indeed it is vnpossible to be shewed that neuer was for in truth the edict was made by the consent of the three estates in Fraunce in time of peace when their was not so much as any feare or suspition of warre but of policie to maintaine peace and to auoide all troubles that might insue thorough controuersie of religion The quiet and peaceable behauiour of the Protestantes in the conference at Poysie was so notorious that our Oratour being not able to denie it saieth it was dissembled that they might more easilie obtaine a lawevnder shadowe whereof they might banish all lawe and religion out of the world roote out all ciuill order and pollicie of all temporall affaires out of all Christian realmes countries cites A moste wicked purpose But howe is it prooued First they made a conspiracy to robbe spoile al the Churches in Fraunce in one night witnes hereof Claudius de sanctes a man verie like to be made priuie of such a conspiracie an vtter enemie of all true religion and the professors thereof But the execution in Gascoine and diuers other places doe testifie of this conspiracie Indeede by some more zealous then wise at Turon and Bloise the Popish Churches were bereued of their Idolls which fact because it was contrary to the edict the prince of Condie forthwith gaúe charge to the kinges officers that the authors thereof should be diligentlie sought out and seuerlie punished according to the edict Cōpare with this fact the horrible murther of the faithfull by the Guisians at Vassie by which the edict was first broken whereas these men in time of the warre without the hurte of anie mans person did onely breake a fewe stockes and stones by which God was dishonered Neuerthelesse the punishment of the offenders confuteth the pretended conspiracie which to saie the truth hath not so much as the shadowe of trueth in it For how was it possible for them to spoile all the Churches of Fraunce in one night where they were not of power to spoile the tenth part if they had so cōspired But it is a greater matter which followeth that at Challone in Burgundie they made a Synodicall decree that euerie man should endeauour to his power to driue three vermines out of Christendome The Church of Rome the Nobilitie the publique order of iustice And this if you denie saith he your names are to be seene yet in the recordes of the high court of Parliament at Paris where manie of you were accused for it by the rulers and estates of Burgondie A sufficient proofe no doubt that the names of them that were accused are extant in recorde It is sufficient proofe among the Papists that men be accused and that by their malitious aduersaries yea the verie accusation is a condemnation But it seemeth the Parliament of Paris had more regard of lawe and iustice then to giue sentence against them vpon a bare accusation for if it be sufficient to accuse no man shall be innocent If the court had condemned them he would haue alledged the sentence and lawfull processe remaining in record against them But almightie God knoweth that the Protestantes haue not onelie bene free but haue alwaies abhorred such Anabaptisticall conclusions and laboured by al meanes to establish the authoritie and obedience due vnto Princes which the Pope by his pretended supremacie shamefullie vsurpeth against them as though the charge of feeding spirituall gouernment were graunted onelie to the Pope by those wordes of Christ to Peter Or if it were that vnder colour of feeding and spirituall gouernment he had authoritie to commaund Princes at his pleasure yea to commaund their crownes of their heades and their scepters out
of their handes as euen at this present that vile Antichrist ceaseth not to practise against the moste lawfull and Christian Queene of England But by what scriptures saith Frarine did you conspire at Geneua like villaines traitorous to murther king Frauncis and the scottish Queene his wife his mother brethren and all the nobles and Catholike osficers of Fraunce Surelie I know not what conspiracy he meaneth I remember not that I haue hard of anie in the time of Frauncis but that wherof ensued the tumult of Amboyse neuer allowed at Geneua as the letters of Caluine to his friendes doe testifie nor heard of vntill it was on foote and suppressed The beginning where of was at Nantes in Britanie The purpose was to remooue the Guisians from gouernment The articles of which diuers were these That nothing should be done against the King the Princes of his blood and the state of the realme That their dignitie and the liberty of their country should be defended as much as might be frō the violence of straungers But if you aske Frarine how he knoweth all this he answereth by a book set out in print vnder the kings priuiledge intituled Defence Reg Relig. As though all must needes be as true as the Gospell which is printed with priuiledge where it were more reason that he should giue credit to the kings owne edict of pacificatiō signed with his hand printed with priuiledge and proclamied with sound of trumpet in all cities of his realme in which he cleareth the princes and them that tooke armes for his libertie against the Guisians and the mantainance of the edict of Iaunarie of all crime of treason and sedition and acknowledgeth that they did all thinges in his seruice and to his honour But Frarine being at Orleans in the time of that warre did see with his eies a seditious sibell printed in the name of all Hugonites wherein was nothing but impudent bouldnes threatning and weason Neuerthelesse he confesseth that this libell was not allowed of the Prince and states when he saieth the printer was kept and feasted a few daies with the officers of that towne within their houser instead of a prison Belike the libell was not so harnous as Frarire affirmeth else it is not to be thought but that the printer should haue had greater punishment Cōcerning Goodmans booke being of the same argument and ume with that of Knoxe before mentioned shall need no other answer then I set downe before But a greater accusation is behinde When the Emperour Charles was entangled at Oenipont the great Turk was requested to make warre in defence of there Gospell and the Bassa of Bude to set vpon his brother Ferdinande in Hungarie Who affirmeth this Staphilus the runnegate which neuer lied or rather which seldome spake the truth tush saith Frarine the letters of that conspiracie were taken their treason by no coloure can be cloked Whose letters Frarine by whome were they taken by whom were they sent to whome were they directed If you answere nothing we saie it is as easie for you or Staphilus to faine the taking of letters as the conspiracie with the Turk The next complaint is of abolishing the laws of the Imperial chamber that all things may be decided with fire sword as Brunus saith which is an impudent slaunder For Germanie was neuer in greater peace quieines since the reformatiō of the vnreasonable customes of that court more then thirtie yeares agoe As for the abro gating of the ciuill lawes and making of a new policie of their owne deuise which he saith appeareth by manie bookes libelles is a foolish slaunder not worthie of any answer seeing he nameth no author of those bookes by which it might appeare that the Protestants had such fantastical coies in their heades Vnto the last place he reserued the weightiest matter of all and that is their contempt of the councell of Trent in railing at all the Prelates Princes in refusing to come thether vnder sufficient safe conduct As for Princes which are no part of the councel it is false that they contemned them but Antichrist and his rable of Idolatrous Priestes and prelates deserue a worse thing then contempt that they refuse to come to the Chapter of Trent among manie reasons they haue two most euident to defend thē For the tragedie of Constance councell doth admonish them that no safe conduct can be sufficient among papistes And where he which is chiefly accused of heresy Idolatry wil be the only iudge of al cōtrouersies what should it auaill them to be heard in such a councell in which is an hundreth times lesse equitie then was shewed in anie hereticall councell of Arrianes Nestorianes Eutichianes or anie other auncient heretikes And now he is come to the third and last section of his circle to declare how cruellie they haue behaued themselues in their wars what hurth ath come by them in which part after much vain babling general accusing of all faith religion iustice chastitie deuotion learning nurture goodnes godlines banishea from many places persons planting of Turkish hethenish Iewish vnsensible blindnes at last he touch eth particulares that Lu ther by that verse of his Host is erā 〈◊〉 moriens tua mors ero Papa Thine enimie I was liuing and thy death O Pope I wil be dying attempted the vtter ouerthrow both of the spiritualtie and of the Empire by what reason I know not for I see no consequence but as the rising of the Pope was by the decaie of the Empire so the falling of the pope whose enimy Luther threatned to be quick and dead would be the establishing and aduancement of the Empire After this he reckoneth the expences trauayles and care of minde that Charles the fifth was put vnto by fighting against them For answere whereof it maie be said that Charles the fift with more gaine les labour thought of minde first and last might haue suffered them to inioie their religion according to the libertie of Germanie and not to haue made such cruell warre vpon them for no iust cause as he did Further our Orator czieth out how manie cities castler Abbies Hospitalles schooles colledges Pallaces gentelmens houses and cloisters hath this gospelish rebellion quite ouerthrowen and sacked All which damages who seeth not are to to be ascribed to their fault who were authores of vniust warres and not of the Protestants whoe were either defenders of their liberty or reuengers of intollerable iniarie It is a pleasant iest with Frarine when he saith their gospel is both negatiue destructiue of al goodnes As if it were not as easy for vs to say that papistrie is both affirmatiue extructtiue of al wickednes God be thanked we affirme al that the holy scripture affirmeth the rest we are bolde to denie we are willing to build both spiritually and bodilie whatsoeuer appertaineth to the glorie of God and the pro