you to the end of the world He is with vs and he is not with vs for he hath not forsaken those in respecte of his diuinitie whome he hath forsaken and from whom he is departed in respecte of his humanitie Moreouer he sayth VVhen his fleshe was in earthe it was not truely in heauen but nowe bicause it is in heauen it is not no doubte in earth Againe he sayth The onely sonne of God which was also man is contayned in one place according to the nature of his fleshe And is not contained in any place according to the nature of his Diuinitie Nowe in the meane time while these things were thus a working the Prelates came together and certaine of the Pâ—…pisticall doctours of the Canon lawe beyng made acquainted wyth the matter did deliberate and consults together what answere they were beste to gyue to the refourmed Churches Here it is reported that the Cardinall of Lorayne sayde I would to God that eyther he were dumbe or else wee deafe and coulde not heare The matter beyng diuersely reasoned and considered of on bothe sides at the laste it was concluded that answere shoulde be made to tâ—…o speciall pointes of the oration the firste poynt concerning the Churche and the seconde poynt concernyng the Lordes Supper They did also deliberate whether it were not good to haue a confession made which shoulde be offered to the protestants but if their chosen men which were appointed to dispute for them had denied to imbrate the same that then they should haue the sentence of condemnation proncuÌ„ced against them as heretikes so the disputation shâ—…ld ende But this their deuise was not fully concluded vpoÌ„ for that many of them woulde not agrée vnto the same And when the ministers of the reformed Churches heard of this deuise they complained to the king Queene that the matter was not indifferently handled beseching them that the fruit and profite of the conference might not be hindred by these plat formes and subtill deuises Therfore the conference began againe the sixtene day of September the king Quéene the king of Nauar and the Princes the kings kinsmeÌ„ being preseÌ„t And here the Cardinall of Loraine first of all spake very largely in the behalfe of the Prelates concerning the obedience of his fellowes towards the king the which they acknowledged to owe vnto him by the commaundement of God confessed that they wold gladly giue the same vnto him Notwithstanding that the king ought to haue great care to defend the Church not as heade but as a member of the same and that in those things which appertaine to doctrine he ought to be subiecte to the Church and to the ministers thereof as the expresse testimonies of scripture and the examples of the ancient fathers doe declare Therefore saith he we doe make this the grounde of all our reasons that all obedience ought to be giuen to the king But comming more neere to his matter he declareth that the assembly whose cause he had in hand did consist of Archbishops of Bishops ordinarily made of Priests of Canons of a great nuÌ„ber of others Whose legâ—…te saith he I am this is the sum of my imbassage Wher as many to my great griefe were fallen from the Church not long a go professing the contrary Religion neither submitting theÌ„selues to their owne constitutioÌ„s being within these few dayes called thither by the kings coÌ„maundemeÌ„t had declared some good will to profite if they would come againe into their cuntrey and into the ancient house of the Fathers they shall be receiued and haue nothing that is past cast in their téeth if so be that they wil shew themselues penitent and will become obedient children to the Churche Therefore I will frame my selfe according to their infirmities being glad that they professe with vs the articles of our faith and I hartely wishe that as in words so in iudgement we maye agrée together Therefore I will answere them in the spirite of loue and modestie But I will handle onely two articles bicause it will be to tedious to intreate of euery one of them particularly And the two articles whereof I will speake are concerning the Churche and concerning the Lordes Supper Wherfore concerning the firste it is not true I hat the Church doth consist only of the Elect bicause in the Lords barne the chaffe is mingled with the wheate and yet notwithstanding the Church cannot erre But if some part of the Church shoulde erre the whole body ought to be preferred before one corrupte member if any euill should créepe in then we muste haue recourse to antiquitie and muste haue respecte to the chiefe and principall Churches among which the Church of Rome hath had alwayes the principall place If any thing were founde to be amisse in some perticular place of the Church we must set against the Ignoraunce of a small number of men the decrées of the auncient and of the generall Counsels But if this thing maye not suffice we muste diligently séeke for the iudgements of the approued fathers of the Catholique Churche notwithstanding we must specially giue place to the testimonies of Scripture being expounded by the true voyce and interpretation of the Church least heretikes shoulde bragge and saye that they alone haue the worde of god For the Catholique Churche must giue authoritie to the word of god The which order bicause the Arrians kept not they fell into great mischiefes into which destruction they also are like to fal which seyng not the beame in their owne eyes are very busie to plucke out the moate in other mens eyes As touching the seconde pointe which concerneth the Sacrament of the Lordes Supper I must néedes confesse that I and the whole Clergie are greatly gréeued to sée that the blessed Sacrament of the Euchariste which the Lorde left vnto vs to be a bonde and pledge of peace and vnitie should by curiositie of searching out of déepe matters be after a sort an occasion not onely of infinite controuersies but also of forsaking the truth which maye scarcely be kepte among these controuersies For in the Eucharste we ought to consider foure things The firste is the vnion and concorde which ought to be among the faithfull according to that which the Apostle saith that VVe are one body and partakers of one cup. The second is the vnion with Christ Iesus as it is sayd He which eateth my fleshe and drinketh my bloude abideth in me and I in him The thirde is remission of sinnes which is purchased by the effusion of Christe his bloude The fourth is the hope of euerlasting life according to that which is writteÌ„ He which eateth this btead shall liue for euer But the contrary doth happen in this disputation namely distractions and diuisions in the Church the separation from God the losse of remission of sinnes of the hope of euerlasting life Diuers and sundrye are the
to be The like words also he hath in his 112. Epistle Also in 37. cha of his second booke against Crescon In like maner S. Cyprian sayth VVe must not haue regarde what this or that man doth before vs but what Christe Iesus hath done who is before all Like vnto this is the rule whiche S. Augustine gaue to Hierome And in an other place also when hée disputeth againste those which woulde vse the Councell of Ariminum Neyther will I saith he alleage the Councell of Nice against you nor shall you alleage the Councell of Ariminum againste me By the authoritie of Scripture lette vs weye matter with matter cause with cause and reason with reason Chrysostome was of the same opynion as may appeare in his 49. Homely vpon Mathew For the Church is founded vpon the foundation of the Prophetes Apostles Therefore to conclude this matter we embrace the holy Scripture for the fâ—…l and perfect declaration of al things which appertayne to our saluation But as touching that which appertaineth to generall councels and to the bookes of the fathers we meane to vse them and we forbid not you to vse them so farre foorth as that which ye shall bring from them be not disagreeing with the worde of god But for Gods sake bring not in their bare authoritie vntill al thinges are examined by the Scriptures For we saye with S. Augustine in his seconde booke De doctrina Christiana the. 6. chapter If there bee any difficultie in the interpretation of Scriptures the holy Ghoste hath so tempered the Scriptures that what soeuer in one place is obscurely spoken in another place is more playnely and euidently reuealed And thus far concerning that Article the whiche I haue prosecuted the more largely to the endâ—… all men maye knowe that we are enimies neither to generall Councels nor yet to the auncienâ—… Fathers There remayne yet to speake of two articles namely concerning the Sacraments and Ecclesiasticall discipline The first truely deserueth a copious and long tractation by reason of the often and great controuersies euen at this day concerning the same but bycause it is not our purpose to dispute but onely to declare the speciaâ—…l pointes of our confession it seemeth enough to me to eâ—…plicate the summe of our faithe We agree as I thinke in the description of the name of the Sacrament namely that Sacramenteâ—… are visible signes by the meanes and helpe whereof the coniunction which we haue with our Lord Iesus Chryst is not only simply signified or figured but is also truely offered vnto God and is confirmed sealed and as it were grauen by the power of the holy Ghost in their mynds which with a true faith apprehend that which is so signified and offered vnto them I vse this word Signified not to weaken or abolishe the Sacramentes but to the ende I might distinguishe the signe from the thing signified Herevpon we confesse that it is alwayes necessarie in Sacramentes that there be a heauenly and supernaturall change for we say not that the water in Baptisme is simply water but a true Sacrament of our regeneration and of the washing of our soules by the bloude of Christe Neither do we say that the breade in the holy Supper of our Lorde Iesus Christe is simply breade but a Sacramente of the precious body of Christe Iesus whiche was giuen for vs and that the wine is not simply wine but a Sacrament of his precious bloud which he hath shed for vs Neuerthelesse we deny that there is any change made in substance of the signes but in the ende and vse for the which they are instituted We denie also that the same mutation is made by the efficacie of certaine wordes pronounced neyther by the intention of him that pronounceth them but by his wil only which hath ordeined this heaueÌ„ly and diuine action the institution also wherof ought euidently and playnly to be expounded in the vulgar tongue that all men might vnderstand and receiue the same Thus muche concerning externall signes Nowe to come to that which is shewed and exhibited by those signes We say not that which many do who not well vnderstaÌ„ding our myndes haue supposed that we haue taught namely that in the Lords supper ther is only a coÌ„memoration of the death of our Lord Iesus Christe Neither do we say that we are partakers of the frutes of his death passion onely in that thing but do ioyne the ground it self with the frutes whiche do come fro him to vs affirming with S. Paul â–ª The bread which we breake according to the Lords instiâ—…tion is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say the participatioÌ„ of the bodie of Christ which was crucified for vs The cup which we drinke is the participation of his very bloud which was shed for vs yea â—…ueÌ„ in the verie same substance which he toke in the wombe of the virgin which he caried vp into heauen Behold I pray you can ye fynd any thing in this Sacrament which we séeke find not But me thinks I heare some body make answer For many wold haue vs to confesse the the bread the wine are changed not into the sacraments of the body bloud of our Sauior Iesus Christ but into the very bodie bloud of our lord Other some peradueÌ„ture wil not so vrge vs but wil haue vs coÌ„fesse that the body bloud is really corporally in with or vnder the bread wine But here my Lordes I pray you heare me paciently a little for a time suspend your iudgements If either of these opinions shall be proued vnto vs out of the worde of God to be true we are redy to imbrace it and wholly to reteine it But it séemeth vnto vs according to the measure of oure faith that this Transubstantiation cannot be reuoked or brought to the analogie substance of faith and to sounde doctrine bicause it is wholly repugnant to the nature of Sacramentes in which it is necessarie that there remaine substaÌ„tial signes that they may be true signes of the body blod of Iesu Christ. Furthermore it doth euert and confound the veritie of the humane nature in Christ of his ascentioÌ„ And as my opinioÌ„ is of TraÌ„substantiatioÌ„ eueÌ„ so is it also of ConsubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ which hath no grouÌ„d in the words of Christe neither is it necessary to this that we be partakers of the Sacraments But if any man demaund of vs if we make Christ to be absent froÌ„ the supper we answer that we do not separate him from the supper But if we haue respect vnto the distaÌ„ce of places as we must of necessitie wheÌ„ we speake of his corporal presence of his humanitie distinctly considered wee affirme that his body is so far absent from the bread wine as the heauen is absent from the earth fâ—…r so much as we the sacraments are in earth but he is so glorified in heaueÌ„
the two principall poyntes of our confeâ—…ion namely concerning the Church and the Supper of the Lorde But if we mighte haue had leaue to answere at the first out of hand when those things that were spoken were yet freshe in memory we mighte haue bene able more aptly and distinctly to haue made answere But notwithstanding we will speake as God shall make vs able that it may be vnderstande in what things we agrée and in what also we doe disagree of the which I woulde to God there mighte be made a perfecte vnitie and concorde Therefore concerning the first principall poynt which is of the Church we will declare thrée things First what the Church is Secondly what are the markes of the Churche and thirdlye what is the authoritie of the same There is no doubte but that this name Church was dâ—…riued of the Gréeke worde which signifieth to call from one place to another But in the Scripture there are found two kindes of callings The one conioyned with the efficacie of the holy Ghost of which there is mention made in the Epistle of S. Paule to the Romaines in these words Those whome God hathe iustified he hathe called The other although it be allone with the first as touching the externall matter yet notwithstaÌ„ding it is of no efficacie as touching saluation not that God is to be blamed therefore but thorough mens default which will not heare the word of god Of this thing the Lorde speaketh when he saythe Manye are called but fewe are chosen Herevpon it commeth that the name of the Churche which is a congregation of men gathered together by the voyce of God which calleth them is taken two maner of wayes For if it be taken generally for all those which doe externally professe that they doe answere to Gods calling then there is no doubt but so many reprobates and â—…ipocrites are comprehended And thus truly haue we alwayes both writteÌ„ and taught with one consent seyng that matter is very common in the Scriptures But if this worde or name Churche be taken more properlye and strictlye as oftentimes it is then we saye that it onely comprehendeth those that are predestinate and chosen of god And to the ende men maye perceiue that wee haue not deuised nor inuented this phrase of speache and much lesse this doctrine when it is sayde That the Church is the bodye of the Lorde bones of his bones and fleshe of his fleshe how can the reprobates be comprehended in this number seing they are the members of the Deuill For these two things cannot agrée together To be a member of Christ and a member of the Deuill also the which S. Augustine well vnderstoode This same distinction of the Churche that Author also vsed writing vpon the sixtie foure Psalme when he sayth The Churche fignified by Hieruâ—…alem began at Abel and Babilon at Caine. And yet notwithstaÌ„ding in this first booke of Baptisme against the Donatistes the sixtene chapter taking the name of Churche more generally he saythe He which begat Abel Enoch Noah Abraham the Prophets begat also Cayne Ismael Dathan and such others In fine therfore let vs take that which the same Saint Augustine hath written in the forenamed booke where it is sayde that there are two sortes of men as touching the Churche For sayth he some are the members of Christe and of the true Churche and so of Gods house that they are euen the house of god But other some are in the house of God but are not the house of god For they are as the chaffe with the wheate But hereof there séemeth to aryse a question whether the Churche be inuisible the which séemeth of necessitie to be concluded for so muche as God onely knoweth his electe seing also we confesse that we beléeue the holy Church And that which is beléeued is not séene But hereby maye come great inconuenience if we haue not a more depe consideration of this matter For if the matter be so into what assemblie can we come Where shall then be the waye of our saluation except the Churche be knowne that we may cleaue vnto Christe Iesus seyng that he doth declare his vertue and sauing health in one Churche Therefore wée saye that althoughe the Churche in consideration of those things whereof we spake euen nowe can not be séene of men yet notwithstanding we haue certain notes to know to what Churche we oughte to ioyne oure selues namely the pure worde of God and the sincere administration of Sacramentes The which notes are so plaine and manyâ—…est that wheresoeuer they shall be wée oughte to be oute of all doubte that there is the Churche of God in so muche that by the rule of Charitie we oughte to account all those for the faythfull Children of God which professe the pure Religion excepte God shall reueaâ—…e their hipocrisie And of this matter Saint Paule hathe giuen vnto vs a playne example when he calleth the Corinthians and Galathians Saints attributing also vnto them the name of the Church althoughe there were greate errors among them both in corruptions of doctrine and also of manners The which also he hath shewed in another place when he sayth If anye man build on this foundation Golde Siluer Precious stones Tymber Hay or Stubble c. Thus therefore we speake of the Churche not transformyng the same into fantasticall imaginations neyther yet as it séemeth vnto vs doe wée giue occasion to aâ—…ye man to counte vs in the number of suche as are fantasticall as the Catharistes the Donatistes and those furious Anabaptistes also that were in our time with whome diuers of our brethren oftentimes haue contended Nowe therefore I come to those notes and badges of the Churche the which we must diligently beholde seing out of the same there is no saluation neither anye manner of thing which Sathan our auncient ennme hath not gone about at all times to counterfaite and falsifie I sayde that there were two certaine and vndoubted markes namely the preaching of the word and the sincere administration of Sacramentes There are some also which adde Ecclesiasticall discipline and the fruite of the preaching of Gods worde But bicause our iniquities will not suffer these two notes to appeare therefore let vs contentour selues with those two first That the word of God is a true badge and marke of the Church it may hereby appeare that the word is compared vnto seede Therefore Paule sayth that he had begotten the Corinthians in the Lorde that is to saye by the preaching of the worde And therefore in manye places it is called meate and foode according to the saying of the Lorde My sheepe heare my voyce but they knowe not the voyce of a straunger Also the sacraments are a true note of the Church bicause the Lord would instruct vs not onely by the eares but also by the eyes and other corporall senses in so much that he would haue
to be buried forgotteÌ„ but there shall be alwayes one or other of his seruaunts which shal know that which ought to be knoweÌ„ shal follow that which ought to be followed as we see it happened to Helias in time of the captiuitie of Babilon in Israell in the time of Christ his coÌ„ming when as there was scarsly left one Zacharias one Elizabeth one Ioseph one Uirgin Mary one Anna the Prophetesse which among so many corruptioÌ„s of the Scribes Phariseis Saduceis had the true vnderstanding of the Prophecies concerning the coÌ„ming of christ These interruptioÌ„s therfore lets which fall into the Church of God are as it were a certaine tempest cloude which God driueth away by the coÌ„ming of his Sonne that is to say of his word according to the dispensing of the secretes of his iudgementes mercies May we not condemne general councels God forbid For ye know that if we shall go about to reforme or ameÌ„d any thing by them ye shall chaunge and alter manye more things thaÌ„ we in the which not long ago ye trauelled Notwithstanding we require this thing at your hande that the worde of God may be as a touchstone that whatsoeuer is eyther spoken or done in the Churche maye be tried by the same If this thing séeme strauÌ„ge vnto you I pray you my Lordes consider that noble place of Augustine where he writeth to Maximinus Arrianus being in the seconde booke and fourth chapter saying Is there a more approued Councell than the firste Nicene Councel None I beleue VVhat was the councel of AriminuÌ„ It was reiected condemned and that iustly But whereof doth S. Augustine intreate in that place Surely of one of the principal articles of our faith so oftentimes concluded coÌ„firmed namely of ConsubstantiatioÌ„ of the SoÌ„ne of god Neuerthelesse S. Austine confesseth that he wil neither be tried by the couÌ„â—…el of Nice nor by the couÌ„cel of AriminuÌ„ but by the scriptures which he calleth indifferent witnesses for both partes But if here we will obiecte say that the scriptures are harde and obscure we must confesse with Saint Paule that the carnall man doth not vnderstanâ—…e the things that are of God and with the Apostle Peter that the scriptures haue not a priuate explication And if the obscurenesse of the Scriptures be such that they cannot manifest themselues vnto vs why doth not Christe sende vs to some other thing rather than to them when he saith Search the Scriptures Furthermore what did they which vsed onely the writings of the Apostles before there were any commentaries of the Doctors I remember my Lorde Cardinall that ye saide that the firme and vndoubted interpretation which was alwayes in the Church euery where and of all men receiued oughte to be imbraced But who will certifie vs of those thrée principall pointes Furthermore if we come to these wordes Alwayes and Of all men at what time shall we begin but onely at the Apostolicall Churche And who shall be counted the first but the Apostles theÌ„selues whose stories Luke hath so faithfully described and are also to be séene by their writings Therefore bicause all truth dependeth vpon God which hath made the Prophetes and Apostles to be interpreters of our saluation we alwayes come to this foundation of Scriptures And yet neuerthelesse we reiect not the iudgementes of Councels and of the Fathers so that they agrée with the Scriptures the which as S. Austine saythe are so tempered and placed by the holy Ghost that the same which in one place is spokeÌ„ obscurely in another place is more plainly vttered Notwithstanding here remayne certaine doubtes to be opened and expounded For there are many which thinke that the will of God as touching our saluation is not fully contained in the writings of the Apostles But I pray you consider with your selues if this be graunted what a way is made to all errors And truely by this way Sathan hath greatly broken into the Lordes vineyarde Neuerthelesse we doe not denie that God before Moyses time ordered and taught his Church by visions and reuelations and that the Apostles builded the Churches with their owne voyce before they had written any thing But why would God the number and wickednesse of men increacing haue this doctrine to be described which was preached and knowne to all men for this cause truly that he might preuent their subtill craftes which colour all their doings wyth the names of tradition of reuelation and of custome But if this doctrine be onely written in part what shall this remedie profite Ihon truely speaketh not thus of the Scriptures wheÌ„ he sayth These things are written that ye mighte beleeue that Iesus is Christ the Sonne of God and that in beleeuing ye might haue life the which no doubt should be false if there were any other doctrine necessarie to saluation In like manner the Apostle Paule expounding the vse of doctrine and in the person of Timothie instructing all the ministers of the Churche had not sayd that The Scriptures make the man of God that is to say the minister and euery faithfull man perfecte and fully giuen to all good woorkes if any thing oughte to be ioyned to the same Notwithstanding we doubte not but that there haue bene alwayes from time to time vnwritten traditions as touching the order and maner of doing But bycause manye of late dayes do abuse this worde Traditions we will shewe what Traditions oughte to be receyued The which shall be easily done if these two things be considered namely if the doctrines be conformable and fyt to edification For this is alwayes firme and certaine that the Apostles and true shepeherdes neuer appointed rites either dirictly or inderectly contrary to holesome doctrine or other things which might in any point or â—…ot draw men from the spirituall worship of god Therefore when this rule shall be obserued and kept it will be an easie matter to discerne true doctrine from traditions and true traditions from those that are false You also may remember how greatly Tertullian in his tractation of the Scriptures condemneth those which sayd that the Apostles lefte somewhat obscure not sufficiently expounded which appertained to our saluatioÌ„ I will say more namely that the same which the Apostles haue done here is not perpetual not as though they were not by al exception the greater witnesses but bicause they did beare somewhat with the infirmitie of the Iewes by the rule of charitie as in willng them to abstaine froÌ„ things offered to Idols from strangled and in that also which Paule did in Timothe in himself the which things at this day ought to haue no place but onely by a generall rule of indifferent things which of themselues are neither good nor euill in which things we ought to applye our selues to the infirmitie of our brethren These things also may be gathered of the rytes which agréed with their times as the
maner of kissing one another in going bareheaded in signe of authoritie which is coÌ„trary to the common custome of many people All these things therfore ought to be considered before a custome be established as apostolicall least the Apostolicall authoritie and custome be abused to the disturbing of the churches as it came to passe after the Apostles tyme for the feast of Easter and in the Apostles time for the authoritie of the Church of Hierusalem as appeareth by Luke How then shall we thinke that the Apostles founde oute so many ceremonies in which afterwards was placed remission of sinnes when as plainely they haue testified the contrarie Augustine complained of these things long ago and there is no doubte but that if he had bene in these our dayes he shoulde haue had greater occasione to complaine To be short therfore we wishe that the Scripture which is very plaine in these matters maie Iudge betwene traditions that are good and euil betwéen holy and prophane betwene profitable and hurtful and betwene such as are necessary and those that are super flucus The which being graunted this question may easily be resolued namely VVhether the Church be aboue the scripture The which questioÌ„ semeth so absurde vnto me as if a maÌ„ shuld demaund whether the father were inferior to the sonne or whether the wife were aboue the husband or maÌ„ aboue God. And truly the true Church neuer complaineth and murmureth against God in this matter but alwaies modestly submitteth it self vnto him Neither maketh it any matter that the Church was before the Scriptures For that word which was afterwardes written is more ancient thaÌ„ the Church seing of the same the Church was conceiued begotten brought forth hath also of the same his denominatioÌ„ And to disproue this the saying of S. Austine is brought against vs when he saith I would not beleue the scripture were it not that the authoritie of the church did force me thervnto But we must consider that S. Austine speaketh here in the person of Manichaeus For wheÌ„ two meÌ„ do contend about the truth of some instrument to whom in the end shal they go but to the Scriuener or Notary that hath the first draught or couÌ„terpane of the same Notwithstanding it doth not here vpoÌ„ folow that the authoritie of the instrument doth depend vpoÌ„ the person of the Notary the which should be no lesse firme and strong althoughe the Notarie being aliue woulde refuse to giue testimonie of the same The same answere muste be made to those whiche thinke the authoritie of the Canonicall bookes of scripture to depende vpon the determination of the Church But I will content my selfe to adde vnto that wherof I haue spoken before one only argument confirmed by the authoritie of certaine approued Fathers The argument is this Christe him selfe did so muche estéeme of the doctrine of the Prophet that he sought to confirme hys doctrine by their testimonies After the same maner the Apostle Paule went about to confirme the Thessalonians in his doctrine Peter also the Apostle commendeth vnto vs and alloweth this order of teaching Therefore it is not méete that they which call them selues Christ his vicars and the successors of Paule Peter shuld refuse the same condition Furthermore thus sayth Saint HieroÌ„ The error either of the fathers or of the elders ought not to be followed but the authoritie of Scriptures And Chrisostome sayth He which will knowe which is the â—…ue Church of Christ Howe shall he knowe the same in so great confusion of likenesse but by the Scriptures Also in the same place he sayth Let them whiche are in Iudea flee into the mountaines that is to say They which are in Christianisme let theÌ„ busie themselues in the Scriptures But why would he haue all Christians at that time be occupied in the scriptures Bycause so soone as heresie hadde entered into the Churches there coulde not be had a true probation of Christianisme neither can they which would knowe the truth of faith finde any other refuge than the holy scripture Whosoeuer therefore woulde know the true Church of Christ how shuld he know the same but by the Scriptures In like maner the Lorde knowing that there should come so great confusion in the latter dayes commaundeth Christians which will haue the assurance of true faith to haue no other refuge than the holy Scripture otherwise if that they seeke for other meanes they shall be offended and perishe not vnderstanding what is the true Church and so shal fall headlong into the abhomination of desolation which is placed in the holye place of the Churche Also Basill sayth If whatsoeuer be not of faith be sinne as sayth the Apostle and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God then whatsoeuer is beside that worde giuen by diuine inspiration is sinne Also in the sermon of the confession of Faith he saith If God be faithfull in all his woordes and if all his commaundementes be firme and certaine for euer framed in truth and righteousnesse it is a forsaking of the faithe and a poynt of arrogancie to retect any part of those things which are written or to bring in any thing not written Thus far O Quéene we haue answered copiouslye according to our knowledge to the first principall point of the Oration made by the Prelates concerning the authoritie of the Churche being readie paciently and quietly to heare whatsoeuer shall be shewed contrary to that which we haue spoken There remaineth yet to be spoken of the Article of our Lords Supper the which if it seeme good vnto your Maiestie I will nowe pretermit both for that I haue heide you and the whole companie ouer long and also bicause we desire to haue this conference hereafter framed in better order NotwithstaÌ„ding if it shal séeme good vnto your Maiestie that wee procéede anye farther we are readie to vtter those things which the Lorde shall put in oure heartes alwayes submitting our selues vnto those things which shall be obiected vnto vs oute of the Scriptures moste humblye praying and beseeching your Maiestie O Queene to be fully persuaded in this one thing that nexte vnto the glorye of oure God wée wishe and desire nothing more vehemently than the dignitie of your Maiestie and the peace tranquillitie of the Realme After that Beza had thus ended his oration then the Cardinall beckning to Claudius Espensius a Sorbonist willed him to make his oration TheÌ„ Espensius beginning to shew that not long agoe he had wished to haue this mutuall conference and that he alwayes vtterly abhorred those cruell punishmentes which were vniustlye vsed againste those which imbraced the ReligioÌ„ he sayd that those things which were alreadie spoken of the Church and of the markes and succession of the same were in his iudgemente verye true adding herevnto that if this way had been taken in hande at the first all controuersies had been by this
time ended But as touching that principall poynte of the Succession of the Churche I haue sayth he oftentimes maruelled with my selfe by whose authorite and by whose calling ye are entered into the Church and haue taken vpon you the office of teaching seing that ye are not come in by the ordinary way nor by such as haue ordinarie authoritie nor haue not receiued of theÌ„ the impositioÌ„ of hands Here vpoÌ„ he gathered that the ministers of the reformed churches were not true lauful pastors for so much as they could not say that they were come in by ordinarie successioÌ„ much lesse by extraordinarie bicause extraordinarie vocatioÌ„ ought to be coÌ„firmed by miracles eueÌ„ as Moises being raised vp of God to deliuer the people was established by extraordinarie miracles or else truly these extraordinarie callings ought to be coÌ„firmed by some expresse testimonie of scripture as the calling of Ihon by the testimonie of Malachy Both the which seing they lacked he coÌ„cluded that their calling ministery was not lawflul As concerning traditions the interpretatioÌ„ of scripture if ther shal happeÌ„ to be any disputatioÌ„ about theÌ„ theÌ„ we must run haue regard to ordinarie successors as to those to whom the holy Ghost is promised who were ordained to that end purpose as it is manisest by the example of the Leuites with whom in time past meÌ„ ought to consult from whose iudgement it was not lawful to decline Many things yea eueÌ„ those that are most certaine farthest from all doubt are retained by traditioÌ„ As the the father is not begotteÌ„ that the sonne is of like substance with the father that infantes ought to be baptized y the virgin Mary was a pure virgin after the birth of Christ so remained such like the which being receiued from the fathers although they be not plainly writteÌ„ in the word of God the is to say in the bookes of the prophets Apostles yet notwithstanding they are not of lesse credit and authoritie Moreouer he said the whatsoeuer was coÌ„cluded determined by generall couÌ„cels were ought to be accounted most certaine true seing the councels coulde not erre in those things that appertained to doctrin For the which saith he you haue alledged out of S. Austin that one couÌ„cell was correâ—… 〈◊〉 proued by another couÌ„cell following neuer came to passe in those things which appertained to ReligioÌ„ For there were only thrée councels in the time of S. Augustine namely the couÌ„cell of Nicene against the ArriaÌ„s the couÌ„cell of Constantinople against the MacedoniaÌ„s the Ephesine councel specially against Nestorius none of the which were afterward reproued ameÌ„ded That which you brought in coÌ„cerning Paphnutius it is neither certainly true nor yet doth it appertaine to the purpose Here vpoÌ„ he repeated that which was spoken coÌ„cerning the Supper disputing a little about the corporall presence he alledged many things out of the books of a certaine author which as he saide the ministers could not refuse meaning Caluine one of whose bookes he brought forth It was said that Espensius at the coÌ„mandemeÌ„t of the Cardinal of Loraine of purpose begaÌ„ to reason concerning the Supper to the intent he might finde conuenient occasion to breake off the conference While Beza was about to make answer to that which EspeÌ„sius had said a certain Sorbonist a white monke whose name was Xainctius being fully bent to dispute rose vp making a long tedious repetitioÌ„ of those things which were spokeÌ„ by Espensius before said that traditions had a more firme foundatioÌ„ than the scripture it self bicause the scripture might be drawen euerye waye by the varietie of interpretations for the which cause he saide that Cyprian contended with many Affricans affyrming that Christ said not I am custome but I am the way the truth the life The which sentence froÌ„ that time forward was many wayes wrested traÌ„sformed To the same effect he cited the testimonie of TertulliaÌ„ in his booke of prescriptions of heretikes said that Beza had spoken very stately sending him to the same place of Tertullian to reade it more diligently Who saythe Quoth the Monke that Heretikes bring in the scriptures and do leade the ignorant into error beyng moued by the authoritie ther of And thus he concluded that the Scriptures ought not to be vsed and that from them simply we ought not to take weapons to conuince heretikes for bicause of thynges so vncertaine the certaine victory of truth cannot be gotten At the last he obscurely sayde that God beside his Councell had giuen vnto vs his doctrine in writing saide that Chrisostome was the author of this saying Here Beza made answere that those long tedious words of the Monke were very impertinent to their conference and nothing helping to that peace and concorde which they wished and directing his oration to the Quéene he did besech hir to prouide that they might neuer afterward swarue fall into perturbations troubles not seruing to the purpose Therefore sayth he that I may answere to the firste doubt of Espensius from whence the Ministers of our Churches had their calling seing they were not called by ordinarie meanes neither had receiued the imposition of handes know ye that Imposition or laying on of handes is not the speciall note of lawfull calling for the principall and substantiall notes are the Inquisition of maners and doctrine and Election from the which two if imposition of handes shall be wanting yet we muste not thinke the calling to be any whyt the lesse lawfull We are elected Ministers and approued of our Churches which with one consent haue allowed our Ministerie But wheras we haue not had imposition of handes nor appointed by those whome ye call Ordinaries that oughte not to séeme straunge seing that in so greate confusion of all things in the Churche of Rome wée would not receiue imposition of hands of those whose vices superstition and false doctrine we disalowe for that they were open enimyes to the truth It is out of all doubte that the Prophetes in olde time had no greater aduersaries than the Priestes whiche reiected sounde doctrine and neglected their office and duetie Did the Prophetes therefore at any time which were raised vp of God to be enimies vnto them desire the confirmation or approbation of their offices vnto the which they were called and appointed of God And yet notwithstanding who will say that they did intrude themselues into those offices which they executed and discharged faithfully with great perill and daunger of their life The which also we ought to do at this time And it ought not to be said that Myracles are necessarily to be required to extraordinarie callings for that which is written concerning the calling of Moyses is not common to all For by what Myracles were the callings of Esayas Daniel and Zacharias confirmed Did the Apostle Paule
séene and the eating of breade in déede euen as if a man shoulde not receyue that wholsom medicine giuen vnto him for his health but should cause it verie sumptuously to be caryed vp and down the chamber They saye also that Paule sayd not Carie this bread about the stretes but VVhosoeuer eateth of this bread and drinketh of this wine Furthermore they say that Christe is in heauen and that therfore there is onely required a spirituall worship Wherevpon they say that great iniâ—…rie is done to him by those corporal and externall worships seing he exalted 〈◊〉 from earth to heauen to the end he might be worshipped and adored with true and spirituall honor And last of all they say that this rite of carying the Lords bodie vp and down was brought in and by little litle established not by any authoritie of Scripture but by the deuotion of some singular man Also that neither Clement nor Gregorie bishops of Rome whiche appointed the same to be a solemne feasâ—…e haue not spoken one worde of that deambulation and that therefore our sacrifiâ—…ing Priests do erre and offende against their will and institution seing that no other day hath such fréedome and libertie to commit all kinde of wickednesse as that hath the whiche truly is not the waye to knowledge and worshippe Christ seeing that he requireth of his disciples purenesse and newnesse of lyfe and in his holy worde vtterly detesteth all sinfull libertie The which things séeme hurtfull not onely to those whiche haue separated themselues from our felowship but also to those which will not leaue the same They doe perceyue that herevpon many things are done amisâ—…e as the pollutiâ—…n of the Sacrament against the word of God and the approued customes of the Church Also that by the occasion of this day many men are aâ—…used and led to commit wicked and horâ—…ible things and that the same day is a verâ—…e prâ—…uocation of most 〈◊〉 sedition as we hitherto to our great griefe haue felt Therefore except this thing be foreseene and a remeâ—… prouiâ—…d for the same at the length experience will shewe that it is better to séeke a more deuoute way to worship God withall than to refeyne kepe this ryte to the hurt and offence of many The Masse also is an other greate cause of offence All men crie out that the Masse is a great offence slumbling block to the Church the same being sold of ignorant dissolute and most vngodly Priests and yet no man seeketh to reforme and amende the same This thing truly hath of late diminished the deuotion of the people very muche yea and many of our felowship do proceed further also â—…o doubt of the Masse both touching the substance and also touching the forme In the subsâ—…aÌ„ce they doe note that the Churchemen afâ—…irme that the priestes do offer Christe and do more esteeme of their owne sacrifice than they dâ—…e of the sacrifice of Christe And that certaine of the Doctours doe saye that the same sacrifiice whiche the Priests offer is onely a monument and signe of the true sacrifice whiche Christe offered for vs once for all but the ignoraÌ„t people are taught by ignorant priests that he ought to be counted for an heretik which thinketh otherwise The which truly seeing it seemeth to be most absurd it giueth great occasion to the aduersarie to speak euil But in the forme of the Masse they note foure principall things First that all things are done in the same in a strange an vnknowne tong the which in déed is vnprofitable and dangerous séeing no fruite commeth thereof vnto the people but are onely fed with certaine outward shewes Wheras on the contrarie part say they it is necessarie that the confession of the faith shoulde be plainly and euidently vnderstode of all men and séeing the Latine tongue muste needes be vsed let the same yet be expounded into the mother tong that it may of all men be vnderstode And seing the prayers which are there made appertaine to the common profit of all the hearers who vnderstanding not what is spoken shall aunswere Amen Furthermore they saye that the consciences of the Clergie doe accuse them and tel them that they doe amisse séeing no part of the vse of their Masse is declared without the which notwithstanding the administration of the Sacramente seemeth to be but vaine Thirdly séeing those things which are spoken in the Masse doe belong to the whole congregation and not to the Priesâ—…es alone and specially those things whiche concerne the Communion and yet neuerthelesse one Priest only communica 〈◊〉 the people sâ—…anding by and looking on it séemeth iusâ—…ly to be verâ—…e farre out oâ—… order and not agréeing to the truthe Wherfore they thiâ—…ke it 〈◊〉 that it shoulde be reduced and brought to the ancient maner of the church agréeing to the first institution â–ª Fourthly they misâ—…yke the order of the diuine seruice In the which is to be coâ—…idered what great profiâ—… the singing of Psalmes and the maâ—…ing of Prayers in the vulgar tong hath brought in tyme paste And truly our aduersaries of late days vsing these meanes haue allured and drawne many vnto them Wherefore let the holy Father consider if it shall not be best to giue libertie to haue the Psalmes soong and Prayâ—…rs also made in the vulgar toung that they maye be 〈◊〉 of all the people These are the principall poyntes whiche they saâ—…e are needfull to be amended â—…en they which haue separated themselues from our felowship which they 〈◊〉 to haue taken in good part seeing they goâ—… not about to violate the Apostoliâ—…ie authoritie of the holy father and 〈◊〉 perâ—…ct in these two things namely that nothing be altered â—…n dâ—…ctrine And also that if the Minisâ—…ers of the Churche doÌ„ offende in any thing the Ministeâ—…e therefore shoulde nâ—…t be taken away but the authoritie thereof alwayes to remain preserued and safe These two things being firmely holden they thinke it no absurditie if diligente inquiâ—…ition be made of other matters which haue neede of reâ—…ormation Therefore she dothe humbly beséeche the holye Father that he woulde prouide for these thinges for that greater inconueniences no dout woulde folowe if so be that there were not remedie prouided in tyme As for other thinges the Quéene promiseth that she hir selfe with the counsell of good men and with hir diligence and iâ—…deuour will looke vnto so muche as she maye both for the peace and quietnesse of the Church and also for the dignitie of the Popes holynesse These thinges haue ben by vs faithfully gathered out of the Copie of hir owne letters ¶ The thirde Booke of Commentaries concerning the state of Religion and or the common vvealth of Fraunce IN the meane season the Prelaâ—…es and Clergée came from all partes of the realme to a towne called 〈◊〉 néere to Sangeiman at the â—…ay appointed in the moneth of August to reason and fréely to
worde out of the bookes of the Prophetes and Apostles be made insufficient he is spoyled of his prophèticall office if newe lawes be made and layde vpon the consciences of men hée should be depriued of his kingly maiestie And if he be offered again for remission of sinnes other ways also be found out to pacifie the wrath of God althoughe it shoulde not be sufficient to haue one Aduocate and Mediator in heauen betwéene God meÌ„ he should be defrauded of his Priesthood Thirdely we agrée not neyther in the defiinition neither in the original nor in the effectes of faythe which by the authoritie of the Apostle Paule we call Iustifying by whiche only we affirme that Iesus Chryst with all his graces is made ours As touching good workes if there be any that thinke we contemne them they are vtterly deceyued For we separate no more fayth from loue than we separate lighte heate from fire And with Iohn we say He which sayth hee knoweth God and keepeth not his commaundementes is a lyer But in these thinges we confesse we disagrée in thrée speciall poyntes First of all in the originall of good woorks that is to saye from whence they come Secondely what those good workes are And thirdely to what vse they are good As touching the first principall pointe we finde no other fréewill in man than that whiche is made frée by the grace of Chryste and we affirme that our nature being in that state into the which it is falne hath néede not onely to be holpen and susteined but rather to be mortified and as it were killed by the power of the holy Ghost which founde our nature not only weakned in grace but also destitute of all strength and enemie to all goodnesse and deade yea and putrified in sinne and corruption And this honor we giue wholly vnto God neither do we think that in this matter we ought in any wise to be ioyned with god For we assigne to his grace and mercie the beginning the middle and the ende of working in vs Concerning the seconde pointe We acknowledge no other rule of righteousnesse and obedience which may stande before God than his commaundements whiche are faithfully described and put downe to vs in his worde to the whiche we thinke it not méete that any creature should adde any thing that apertaineth to the building of mens consciences or detract from the same Concerning the thirde point namely to what vse these good works are profitable We confesse that so far forthe as they come from the spirite of God working in vs hauing their beginning from so good an originall they are good and ought to be called by that name howbeit if God would examine theÌ„ according to the rigour of his iustice he should finde many things in them worthy of condemnation We say also that they are profitable for an other vse bycause by them our God is glorified men brought to the knowledge of him but we are persuaded that for so much as the holy Ghost is within vs for he is certainly knowne by those effects we are of the number of his elect and of those that are predestinate to saluation But for so much as it coÌ„meth in question to knowe by what title the kingdome of God appertayneth vnto vs we say with S. Paule Eternal life is the free gift of God and not a due reward of our merits For by this means Christ Iesus doth iustifie vs with his righteousnesse onely which is imputed vnto vs sanctifieth vs with his holynesse only giuen vnto vs redéemeth vs with his only sacrifice imputed vnto vs by true liuely faith of the grace liberalitie of our god Al these riches treasures are giuen vnto vs by the power of the holy Ghost vsing the preching of Gods word the administration of the sacraments to this ende not as though it hath néed of those means for God is omnipotent but bicause so it pleaseth him to apply coÌ„form him self vnto vs by these ordinarie meanes to create nourish in vs y most precious gift of faith which is as it wer at hand to apprehend take hold of those gifts as it were a veâ—…ell to receiue Christ with al his riches to saluation Moreouer we receiue only imbrace for the word of God the doctrine contained in the bokes of the Prophets Apostls called by the name of the old new Testament For who can assure certifie vs of our saluatioÌ„ but they which without exception ar the gretest witnesses And as touching the authoritie of the doctors of ancient time general couÌ„cels before they be receiued without any examination first they shuld be compared with the scriptures then theÌ„selues with theÌ„selues for so much as the holy ghost is by no means contrarie to himself The which my Lords I think ye wil neuer take in hand if ye do giue vs this leaue that we may sée the matter before if we beleue that ye wil not do it But what Are we of the progenie of that wicked Cham which vncouered the priuities of his father Noe Do we think our selues to be better learned than so many gréek latine doctors Are we so wise in our own conceites that we think that we are the first which haue opened the truth Are we so arrogant as to condemne the whole world of error God forbid yea that be far from vs notwithstanding my Lords we trust you will graunt vs this that euery ancient councel euery doctor ought not to be receiued rashely for so much as there haue ben long ago many false prophets in the church of God as the Apostle in many places techeth vs SecoÌ„dly as touching those doctors which ar to be receiued seing al truth which may be found in theÌ„ necessarily ought to be drawn from the scripturs what sounder way shall we finde to profit in their writings than to examine all things by that touchstone namely by the welwayed resons coÌ„sidered testimonies of scripture by which we ought to interpret theÌ„ No maÌ„ truly can giue vnto them more thaÌ„ they wold giue vnto theÌ„selues And these are the very words of Hierom writing vpoÌ„ the Epist. of the Gala. The doctrine of the holy Ghost is that which is contained in the Canonical bokes of scripture against which to decree any thing by couÌ„cels is not lauful And S. Aug. writing to Fortunatê° saith we must not so much esteme of the disputations of meÌ„ although they be catholike of great authoritie as we must esteme of the Canonicall Scripture except it bee lawfull for vs sauing the reuerence due to those men to mislyke and reiect somewhat in their writings if it be founde that they haue iudged otherwise than the truth will beare which wee or any others by the grace of God do knowe This is myne opinion in other mens wrytings and such do I wishe the readers of my works
called do build vpon their foundation and do first of all set forth the word of God in certaine places whether the succession of persons be perpetual or whether it decay or ceasse for a time Wheras on the contrary parte they which either preach not the word of God at all or else preache their owne doctrine in stéede of the Apostles doctrine althoughe they alledge and bring in for them selues a thousande continuall successors are not to be hearde as pastors but to be shunned as wolues according to the expresse commaundement of Christ Iesus and of his Apostles But some man will obiect and say is it lawfull then for euerye man to preache the worde and to minister the Sacramentes No truely it ought not so to bée For al things muste be done in the Churche of God as the Apostle saith in order Who are then true Pastors surely suche as are lawfully called It resteth therefore now to consider what is lawfull calling that this speciall matter also may be vnderstoode We say that there is one forme and maner of ordinary calling and another of extraordinarie calling That is ordinarie calling in the which the order appointed of GOD in the Church is obserued In this order the first thing is The examination of doctrine and maners the seconde lawfull election and the laste imposition of handes These thrée things may be gathered approued by diuers testimonies of Scriptures as by the election of Mathias and of the seuen Deacons in the Actes of the Apostles and also by those things which Paule writeth in his Epistles to Timothie to Tâ—…tus This is the descriptioÌ„ of ordinarie calling Wherby it maye be gathered that the same is an extraordinarie calling in the which although it be lawful by Gods authoritie either one of these two things or both or else all are wanting The which kinde of callings God hath ofteÌ„times vsed as in the Scriptures appeareth For who layd hands on Moyses to dedicate Aaron Who annointed the Prophetes Esayas Daniel Amos and many others Therfore when they which had authoritie abused the power of ordinarie calling then I saye it was necessarie that the Lorde should vse extraordinarie meanes not to bring in confusion but to refourme those which had peruerted and depraued al things in the Church vnder the colour and pretence of ordinarie succession And that the matter standeth thus the writings of the Prophetes which specially inueye against the Priestes do manifestly declare If any man obiecte and say that they had extraordinarie testimonies of their calling confirmed with certaine miracles we answere That this is so far true in some that in other some it is starke false except we shuld speake of those things of the which there is no testimonie And truely I cannot tell whether there be many Prophetes to be found of the progenie of Aaron vpon whome hands were laide after an ordinarie maner If in like maner it be alledged that they contented themselues with the office of reprehending and reprouing and exercised not the office of sacrificing we answere first of all that this is not founde euery where to be true For Samuel which was not of the familie of Aaron but of Chore sacrificed in Mispa And Elias in Carmel Secondly we answere that it ought not to séeme straunge that the prophetes at that time extended not that extraordinarie office to the doing and fulfilling of ceremonies seing that the same office did appertaine by inheritaunce to the kindred and stocke of Leui which at this day is out of vse Thus far therefore concerning these speciall pointes what is the Church what are the markes of the same what is the vocation of Pastors we haue spoken oure iudgement The which things if ye meane to call in question to séeke and trie whether they be in oure Churches or in oure persons we trust by the helpe of God to bring suche certaine reasons that no maÌ„ can doubt that we haue the true Church and that our calling is lawfull Now let vs come to the third principall point which concerneth the authoritie of the Church It is manifest by those things wherof we haue spoken already that we do derogate nor take away none of those precious magnificeÌ„t notes with the which the Church is beautified But we say that it is the body of the Lord that as yet it is a pilgrime in this world loking for the fulnesse of the head that is Christ. This is the house of the Lord which is dayly builded erected by little little which is gouerned by the holy Ghost but as yet fighting against the fleshe it is purified but so that by little little it may be brought to the perfectioÌ„ of that beautie cleannesse in the which there is neither spot nor wrinkle it knoweth God but in part To be shorte we confesse that out of the Church there is no saluation seyng there is life no where else thaÌ„ in Christ Iesus who exerciseth his quickning lyfe in no other than in his members the vinion and coagmentatioÌ„ wherof is called the Church But in this all the whole controuersie consisteth namely whether the Church maye erre in this world whether it be subiect vnto the scripture or the scripture vnto it To the which I answere that it is out of all controuersie doubt that the particular members of the Church may erre do dayly erre both in doctrine in maners according to this place of the Apostle Paule saying VVe know in part And S. Ihon sayth If we say we haue no sinne we deceiue our selues If any man would go about to exempt the ancient fathers from that nuÌ„ber he shall not be offended if we beleue not his words For it were an easie matter sauing y reuerence which we owe vnto theÌ„ to note many blemishes spots eueÌ„ in the greatest most ancient fathers but we wil not stand in repeating of them both for the honour which they worthily deserue also for that the Lord Cardinall if I wel remeÌ„ber his words thinketh not that they ought rashly and indifferently to be receiued This is our opnion concerning the particular meÌ„bers of the church whose perfectioÌ„ notwithstaÌ„ding is no such cause or let but that the Church may consist of them For the faithfull profit by litâ—…le and little both in the knowledge of God and also in the perfection of maners But and if the meÌ„bers of the Church be considered more generally as they be distributed into diocesses prouinces shal we say that they may erre Moreouer if I be not deceiued my Lorde Cardinall thoughte of late that particular Churches and prouinciall councels may erre and haue oftentimes erred And truely this thing is confirmed by so long experience that I thinke not that any man in his right wittes will denie the same It remaineth therfore that we consider the whole Church vniuersally But
loke for imposition of handes of the Phariseys that he might execute that office which God had committed vnto him And when he woulde confirme his Apostleship he speaketh not onely of the Myracles whiche he had done but also of the fruites of his preaching The which also we may say of so many kingdomes and prouinces which haue receiued the Gospell by our preaching notwithstanding so many lettes and impedimentes to hinder the same and we thinke that there cannot be required of vs a more firme confirmation of oure Ministerie seyng the vertue and power of God is manifest in vs the which neither bondes neither imprisonment neither fire neither banishments nor death could let Albeit sayth Espensius bring ye me one onely example done a thousand fiue hundred yeare agone like vnto yours Al things sayth Beza that haue happened are not put down in histories but howsoeuer the matter be it doth not folow that this our example is not manifest inough and set forth of God in his due time who went not about to giue a new Gospell but ment to renewe that olde Gospell which was exquisitly written by the Apostles and sufficiently confirmed by Miracles And so by a certain vnwonted and singular meane or way he caused that bright light to shine But concerning Traditions what foolishe madnesse is it to make them either equall with the Scripture or else more certaine than the same bicause of the diuersitie of interpretations For what shall be the staye and foundation of oure faith if we stande in vncertaine opinions But what so euer men do this notwithstanding is most certainely to be imbraced That truth shall be most firme and constant although for a time it seme neuer so obscure and although heretikes do abuse it yet neuerthelesse ought we alwayes to leane to the same Also touching the place of Tertullian which Xainctius willeth me so diligentlye to consider I haue so certainely considered the same as I am sure he hath falsely cited Chrisostome in whom that shal neuer be founde which he hath falsely fayned We will not denie but that Tertullian was deceyued in certayne places and yet notwithstanding the place cited beyng rightly vnderstoode and the ende thereof considered it shall be verie easie to be expounded For it was his purpose to declare that we muste not dispute in vayne against heretikes but as the Apostle Paule sayth they beyng once or twice reprehended must be reiected But shewe vnto vs with what Heretikes he had to doe surely euen with those whiche being conuicted by the worde of God obstinately thrust in certaine testimonyes of scripture transformed to maintaine their errors Against these men Tertullian bringeth in the traditions of the Churche the whiche he sheweth ought to be of greater waight than the new deuises of many men First of al therfore it is méete that we should be conuinced by the word of God that we may be brought from error For if we should simply leane vnto traditions which are neither Apostolical nor agréeing to their doctrine we should set open a way to a thousand deceites and at length peruert and ouerthrow the certaintie of the Scripture And why dothe Tertullian cast the heretikes in the â—…éeth saying that They contrary to Scripture doe beleeue without Scripture but onely to teache them that they must leane and cleaue to the certaine truth of the Scriptures and by them conuince errors But if the traditions and ceremonies which are at this daye obiected vnto vs of our aduersaries were Apostolicall and alwayes vsed of the Churche we might otherwise thinke and determine but seyng we can shew their beginnings it followeth that they are not come from the Apostles And truely Tertullian dothe greatly reprehende them which thought that all things whiche appertained to saluation were not put downe to vs by the Apostles Therfore when truth comes in question we must haue recourse to the Apostles whom Christe hath sent to teache the Churche But how shall we agrée of the Apostles doctrine but by their writings For therefore were they called of God to that office that they might plainely teache and instructe vs in all things that appertained to our saluation After the same maner also the place of Chrisostome may be explaned in the which we haue these words Christ lefte nothing to the Apostle in writing did he therefore forbyd them to leaue anye thing in writing No truely But he dyd rather illuminate them by his holy spirit to the ende his doctrine being put in writing mighte abide for euer Howbeit the Apostles taughte certayne things which they haue not written We denie it not But we say that those things whiche they haue not written doe not appertaine to oure saluation For those things whiche mighte appertayne to certaine rytes profitable for that time and to the order and gouernement of the Churche they haue shewed and declared by woorde of mouthe But bycause those things are of suche condition that they maye be diuersely altered accordyng to the circumstaunces of the place tyme and persons therefore they neither oughte nor can bynde the consciences of men And as concerning these wordes Not begotten Consubstantiall Trinitie and suche like althoughe they be not to be founde so expressely in the Scripture yet notwythstanding their sense effect and meaning is plentifully to be founde therein Wherevpon afterwards to auoyde the subtil â—…lightes of heretikes these and such like wordes were founde out and receiued of the ancient fathers Thus Beza answered to those obiections that white Monke 〈◊〉 in the meane time crying out against him interrupting him and still inculcating this thing that neither the virginitie of the virgin Marie nor the baptizing of infantes coulde be proued by testimonies of Scripâ—…ure And thus crying and exclaming still after the manner of scholes he was verie troublesome to the whole assembly At the last after this confused disputation to and fro the Cardinall of Loraine perceiuing the inciuâ—…litie of his fellowes as it may seeme least they should be reprehended of the Quéene he himselfe ended this controuersie as though the question had ben sufficiently handled Upon which silence the Sorbonistes afterwards persuaded them selues to haue gotten the victorie Then the Cardinall began to speake concerning the Lordes Supper protesting in the name of al the Prelates that they woulde procéede no further vntill that question were fully determined and answered both for that it was the principall pointe of all controuersies and also bycause the Ministers hadde so playnely declared their opinion and iudgement concerning the same in that their first OratioÌ„ that the rumoure thereof is gone thoroughout the whole Realme Therefore he demaunded of the Ministers whether they woulde receiue and imbrace the Augustane Confession And the Ministers on the contrarie part demaunded if they also would receiue the same The Cardinal faring as though he woulde answere to this demaunde began to bring for the the iudgement of certaine Ministers of