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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A39573 Baby-baptism meer babism, or, An answer to nobody in five words to every-body who finds himself concern'd in't by Samuel Fisher. Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665. 1653 (1653) Wing F1055; ESTC R25405 966,848 642

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blushing at the lives of those men who stiled themselves their successors I have done with the c●…uses of his heresies and come to his design The design of the Heretick even this Heretick of Hereticks the CCClergy is to propagate his Error and as his grounds are wicked so are his manners in mannaging of them intrat ut vulpes regnat ●…tleo he pretends verity but intends onely vctory that he may reign over the kings and people of the earth and that they might all stoop to his commands directions and under pretence of verity at first he did get victory at last over the whole world so that Pape Oh strange the whole world wondered after him and doted upon him as their Lord God and became slaves in chains to his Priestly will yea as he loved to be supreme and overcome so the lord let him for a time that he might manifest his own power the more in the overcomming him for ever in the end yea power was given him to make war by the beast that bears him even all nations of Christendom which he overcame first against the Saints and to overcome them also and so to be filled with his own inventions he gives out when any disputes against him that his desire is to be satisfyed by disputing and so perhaps he would but t is with riches more then rightousnesse with tith more then truth for in truth he seemes if he must meet with such as charge him with error in his doct●…ine of baptism tith forced maintenance forcing conscience as if he would renounce his opinions and practises in these points if any can prove them to be corrupt but seeks onely opportunities to spread his odd opinions of what sc'●…ism and sacriledge and robbing of God it is if submission be not acted and tithes be not offered to him among the vulgar among whom his Ghostly pretences produce a kind of aweful affrightment and dread of doing any thing against what he saies being resolved before hand never to be convinced of the truth as t is in the word for that overturns him in all his preferment projects and plucks him up from all the profits of his present princely posture which is such a right eye to him that he hath not faith enough to believe that it can possibly be more profitable to him to part with though Christ himself till him tis then to preserve and perish with it His disciples are for the most part not such as the noble Beraeans that would take nothing upon trust from the very Apostles mouths but searched the Scripture dayly whether the things were so or no not onely men but honourable women too not a few but rather meer idle implicit forefather faitht men simple and weak women who try nothing but keep their Church and believe as their Church believes and as their good churchman saies led away with diverse lusts and pleasures leaning onely on their Priests understandings pinning all their Religion upon their sleeves adoring all that their Orthodox divines deliver at a venture ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth as t is in the word whose honest ignorant devotions he hath won to himself by his cunning artifice of pretended piety voluntary humility seeming zeal to the truth long prayers or rather multitudes of short prayers and praises Pater Nosters Miserere Me●…'s Magnificats Te deums Gloria Patri's per Iesum Christum Dominum nostrums and such like devoutries and being once gained are so carried on with the streme of corrupt custome present fashion foolish affection that no reason in the world can reclaim them he deterreth lay people as much as may be from reading expounding or too much prying into the Scripture alledging unto them the perils they may incur by misinterpretations he hath laid his foundations so firmly in the dark consciences of men women by perswading them of his own infallibity Ecclesiastical Authority his Ius Divinum in the Government and guidance of the Church as here in Britain and even of his Temporal jurisdiction too as at Rome over both heaven and earth hell and purgatory of his power in the agony of mens souls to forgive sin that men and women are becharmed into beleif of him he hath woven himself so far into their credulity that all his sayings are received as oracles all his doings as divine all his traditions as truth it self all his Adminstrations as Apostolical all his doctrines as Orthodox all his Arguments though confessed by himself to be weak as unanswerable and all others Administrations Actions Answers Arguments though never so consentaneous to the true sense of Scripture valued at that price which he sets upon them as if the holy chaire of Papall determination Episcopal Convention Synodical constitution could not possibly be mistaken yea the Scripture it self is but a nose of wax with him of what shape soever the CCClergy casts it into of no more authority then Aesops Fables with the Papists if the Pope say the word so as to disdate digrade it or put any part of it out of commission of no other sense then the Bishops and Synod seem to say is the sense on 't with their good Protestants so altogether Oraculous is the Pope among his the Bishop among his the Presbyter among his and even all the three several CCClergies among their three several sorts of CCCreatures that their different ipse dixits are ipso facto divine directory and discharge enough too for these different doters on them insanire cum ratione to dote to and fro by Authority so as to do and undo and do and undo and do by In a word he is too bold to be born down not so much from such things as mae the righteous witnesses to tru●…h as bold as Lio●…s before God and men viz. the goodnesse of his cause for that is stark naugh and rotten nor the clearnes of his call ●…ther to his Clerical function or any actions he goes about by vertue and in persuance thereof for t is clear enough that his orders emission commission as to the external etymology of them are more from the Pope then Christ and the true Church nor any good answer of a good conscience for either his conscience is so cloudy that he cannot or so cowardly that he dares not or so resolved that he will not see or else so clear that he is condemned of himself w●…en t●…uth shines plainly upon his face but rather from either his great interest in or directive authority over the civil power that hath long back as well as bellyed him as in England or his having it all in his own hands and dispose as at Rome where ●…e duo gladii both swords are in the Clergyes clutches so that he can quickly correct those that con●…radict him he is too clamorous to be silenced calling out with such a heavy noise and divine ditty against the truth and cond●…ing it with such an
instead of them who profess their faith and desires to be baptized to take a small sucking babe out of their armes and dat him with a drop or two on the face and send away all the other unbaptized Babist The sureties or parents in so saying do but represent the child that could not speak for it self and expresse his good resolutions to forsake the divel c. and his desires to be baptized Baptist How reasonless is it to put questions to infants through their parents ears and then very gravely suppose them answering again through their parents mouthes yea as reasonless as to suppose that all people should see through none but the blind priests eyes nor yet to stand reasoning how reasonless a thing it is to signifie things to sucklings while they understand them not and that too by such a vanishing visible sign that when they can understand they neither see nor never shall and such like Trumpioall transactions to which there are as few grains of reason concurring as there are inches in an Apes tail even your selves however it happens that you so contradict your selves yet that is no news with you as to sound it out here how Reason fights on your sides for infant baptism are even in this very cause found falling out with and fighting down right against reason hand smooth but some four or five pages below this why else is there such a reasonles reply made to seven or eight several objections which byyour own confession p. 16. reason makes against infant baptism but I le spare you till I come thither 3ly That the practise and authority of the Church of God you so much boast of from the beginning and the Fathers thereof which you complain and grumble much p. 1. 11. 12. that t was set aside and might not be admitted into your assistance at the Disputation is so utterly against your infant baptism that even this alone were it of any esteem with you had bin enough to have silenced all your disputes for it and laid the itch and quencht the heat of your hearts after that meer novelty is most manifest if by the Church of God and the Fathers therof you mean what I do viz. the Church of God in the primitive which were the best and purest times of the Gospel whose practise in this particular is set out in the word but specially in the Acts of the Apostles the fathers of which Church and of the Church in after ages too were the Apostles themselves viz. Father Peter Father Paul Father Barnabas Father Iames Father Iohn and the ●…est whose authority from Christ was great indeed and adequate with the Scriptures then written and the foundation for all the Churches to build on and such was not the authority of the Churches then much less since which are to be subjected to their word in Scripture this Church and these fathers never knew such a baptism as yours nor is there the least tittle of talk concerning any such matter to be found among them Or if by the Church and Fathers of it whose authority and practise you build on you mean those of the ages next to the Apostles Then first I marvel why you should put your selves upon the triall by succeeding ages and decline the first and purest age of the Gospel of all specially since there 's as clear history and more infallible testimony given in the word of what was done by the Church and the first fathers the Apostles then ever was in any age inferiour to it whatsoever and more specially yet since its being in after ages is no palpable argument of its being in the first age for the mystery of iniquity was at work from the very Apostles t is now Ergo it was then is not so good a wherefore to our why as we look for besides t is ingenuously confest by your own writers viz. Mr. Blake in answer to Mr. Blackwood p. 58. that faith can hang on the humane testimony of the succeeding fathers in whose daies infant baptism was no further then de facto viz. that it was onely and not de jure that it ought to be and Mr. Marshal p. 5. of his sermon that the practise of the thing in their dayes proves not the truth of it at all Secondly neither doth the second Century help you so much as to a proof de facto For First as much as you would seem to be verst among the fathers in which many Priests are better read then in the Scriptures and some to seem to be better read there then they are will quote the fathers when they have not read them but by snaches and pickt a few fine phrases out of them to make their sermons the more sententious yea and sometimes for those very sentences for which they might more truly quote the Apostles that primitively pend them witnesse one of your tribe whom I heard with my own ears say of Heb. 2. 16. he took not on him the nature of Angels thus viz. for as Saint Barnard saith when as he might as well have said as the spirit or as the Scripture saith He took not on him c. if yet he knew that t was in the Scripture as much I say as you are versed in the fathers you are desired by Mr. Blackwood a man better read in those fathers then either you or I yea you and Mr. Marshall also who quotes Iustin Martyr are defired by him in his storming of Antichrist p. 25. 26. 27. to prove if you can out of any place of Iustins genuine works who is the antientest father extant next the Apostles whose works are accounted on that there is so much as the name of infant baptism much more the thing yea he tells you ye may as soon find a Dolphin in the woods as any such thing save onely that t is once mentioned in a spurious book falsely called his out of which book Mr. Marshalls quotation is neither doth Mr. Blake gainsay this nor yet Mr. Marshall in their replies nay they rather seem to grant that it s to be doubted it was so which makes me as well as Mr. Blackwood not a little wonder that Mr. Marshall should quote it with so much confidence I mean so as to assert it thereupon as a matter manifest that the Church counting from the time of Iustin Martyr viz. 150 hath bin possest of the priviledg of infant baptism for the space of 1500 years and upwards for had he not doubted but that the words the cites were without question the words of Iustin himself he had not had sin but now he hath no cloak sith he demonstrates to all men Dubitatum per magis dubium and tells the world to make them believe that Iustin disputes the condition of children that dye baptized and unbaptized when yet it s not believed but much doubted by himself whether Iustin did any such thing yea or no as to the words Mr. Marshal p. 4. of his sermon cites
like to entitle a bastard alledging out of Deut. 23. 2. that in the old Testament a Bastard was not to enter into the congregation of the Lord unto the 10th generation and so indeed he was not upon any terms for ought I see whether the parents repentance or the childs good behaviour when at years after once that particular statute was delivered yet takes upon him to deviate from his old Testament Rule so far himself as to admit such a one into the congregation and to baptism either when the parents repent notwithstanding his bastardy or when the child professes better in his own person p. 87. 88. By which kind of often interfearing of so able a man as Mr. Cotton I perceive and therefore believe believe and therefore speak it that the nearer men come from Rome towards reformation if they come not to the perfection of it according to the word the more miserably a great deal are they bewildred with any human tradition that is remaining among them unremoved in so much that the Papacy is lesse troubled with contradictions quarrels quirks and foolish quiddities about their infants sprinkling then Praelacy Praelacy then Presbytery Presbytery then Independency for though they hold none but believers and that all those are to be baptized yet the Pope carries it clearly to all infants born in his Christendom without streining these being all believers with him as in opposition to Turks The Prelate to the infants of Protestants onely that are his believers in opposition to Papists But the High-Presbyter to the infants of protestants universally though with him not 10 of 100 in his parish are believers when they administer the supper The Independent to none but the infants of those that are inchurcht with him though himself believes there are 1000s of believers that are not of his way those I say that are most reformed in other things are more muddled and lesse capable to maintain that popish practise of infant-sprinkling then those that are deformed in all other parts of outward order besides it and as they stand in the narrowest streit to hold it up so are they for the most part at the nearest step to lay it down not a few discovering dayly more and more the absurdity and unsuitablenesse of it to so pure a posture as they pretend to and quod fieri non debuit factum valet availing more to the keeping off many from the true way of baptism then any arguments they have whereby to satisfie themselves in the sufficiency of that way of sprinkling Thus we see what a laborinth you Clergy-men would lead poor creatures into if they should follow you yea I know not how a man can follow you unlesse he go nine wayes at once such Noniformity there is among you some saying this and some that and some you wot not well what your selves What pretty Checker work is there in your judgements about one and the same thing wherein you would be unanimous and uniform if you would return all unto the truth O how doth Babell come tumbling down by this Division of tongues even as when theeves fall out true men come to their goods even so surely will the true Church come at last to the understanding of this truth even that no infants at all are to be sprinkled when they shall see what a do there is about it among divines and how they would hold it if they could tell how and say something for it if they could tell what the disputers and scribes will scuffle one with another till their poor people not knowing which to follow will at last betake themselves to leave them all and follow Christ. What Sirs is the Gospel the plain simple gospel such a maeander as this is Christ thus divided were Paul Peter and Barnabas and Iohn and the rest of the Apostles and ministers whose Successors you all say you are but are not in very deed so intricately intangled in vain janglements about one and the same question as you are both among and within your selves so that your answers and Accounts for your practise hang together more conjangletim then conjunctim but no marvel if the Cat winckt when both her eyes were out you draw nigh to God O yee Priests with your mouth and honor him with your lipps but have for the most part of you removed your hearts far from him and your fear towards him is taught after the precepts of men therefore are ye drunken but not with wine you stagger but not with strong drink for the Lord hath powered upon you the spirit of deep sleep and hath closed your eyes you Prophets you Rulers you Seers hath he covered you have disserted the truth and are degenerated into a counterfeit kind of Baptism that never descended from above that hath stood now of a long time jure Ecclesiastico but not jure Christico and so the best of you know not how to hold it now the truth returns from the land of her captivity without fidling and faining and patching and shifting and such shameful ridiculous thwarting of your selves and one another with yea and nay in your joint prosecution of one and the same cause as will if you reform not in time object as much to the Ha-Ha-He of that part of the Christian world that yet wonders after you of the protestant Clergy as other popish toies have done the Papacy to the Pape of such as once wondered after them give over therefore your dabling of infants faces and baptize believers by profession cast away all your wood hay and stubble which cannot endure the trial by the light of that day that is now approaching and begin the Gospel again as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be in this world world without end Amen Thus Sirs saving your vain boasting what innumerable Arguments and such through furniture from Scripture from reason from the Churches and Fathers Authority from more modern Authors amongst whom you mention Calvin Ursin Dr. Featley I have shewed that Scriptures are against you that Reason is against you that the Primitive Church and Fathers are against you that the immediately sub-primitive Church and Fathers are against you that the praepostern-Church and Fathers are though some against you some for you so little to be regarded in their testimonies in respect of the Superstition of their times that if they were all wholly for you they prove nothing de jure as neither do the testimonies of the more antient Fathers by Mr. Marshalls and Mr. Blakes confession that though the Clergy and all Christendome Pope Civil powers and people have been so fully for you for ages together as that they have persecuted all that have been against you yet this shewes the badness of your cause by the bloudiness of it and so makes more against then for you that two of those three Authors of your own alledging are as much for you as men can be that are opposite to you for they