Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	authority_n	church_n	err_v	2,923	5	9.8588	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76258	Certamen religiosum or, a conference between His late Majestie Charles King of England, and Henry late Marquess and Earl of Worcester, concerning religion; at His Majesties being at Raglan Castle, 1646. Wherein the maine differences (now in controversie) between the Papists and the Protestants is no lesse briefly then accuratly discusss'd and bandied. Now published for the worlds satisfaction of His Majesties constant affection to the Protestant religion. By Tho: Baylie Doctor in Divinity and Sub-Deane of Wels.	Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657?; Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Worcester, Henry Somerset, Marquis of, 1577-1646.	1649 (1649)	Wing B1506; Thomason E1355_1; ESTC R209153	85,962	251

penknife of Apoccrypha Ruffinus challengeth him for so doing and tells him of the gap that he hath opened for wild beasts to enter into this field of the Church and tread down all ill corn Jerom gives his reasons because they were not found in the Originall Copie as if the same spirit which gave to those whom it did inspire the diversities of tongues should it self be tied to one language but withall he acknowledgeth this much of those books which he had thus markt in the forehead Canonici sunt ad informandos mores sed non ad confirmandam fidem how poor a Distinction this is and how pernitious a president this was I leave it to Your Majestie to judge for after him Luther takes the like boldness and at once takes away the three Gospels of Mark Luke and John Others take away the epistle to the Hebrews others the epistle of Saint Jude others the second and third epistles of Saint Peter others the epistle of Saint James others the whole book of the Revelation Wherefore to permit what the Church proposes to be questionable by particular men is to bring down the Church the Scriptures and the Heavens upon our heads there was a Church before there was a Scripture which Scripture as to us had not been the Word of God if the Church had not made it so by teaching us to believe it The preaching of the Gospel was before the writing of the Gospell the Divine Truth that dispersed it self over the face of the whole earth before i'ts Divinitie was comprised within the Cannon of the Scripture was like that Primeva Lux which the world received before the light was gathered into the body of the Sun this body so glorious and comfortable is but the same light which was before we cannot make it an other though it be otherwise and therefore though the Church and the Scripture like the light that is concomitant and precedent to the Sun be distinct in tearms yet they are but one the same no man can see the Sun but by it's own light shut your eyes from this light and you cannot behold the body of the Sun Shut your eyes against one and you are blind in both he never had God to be his Father who had not the Church to be his Mother if you admit Sillogismes a priori you will meet with many paralogismes a posteriori cry down the Churches Authoritie pull out the Scriptures efficacie give but the Church the lie now and then and you shall have enough will tell you the Scripture is false here and there they who have set so little by the tradition of the Church have set by halfe the Scriptures and will at last throw all away wherefore in a word as to denie any part of the Scripture were to open a vain so to question any thing which the Church proposes is to teare the seamlesse Coat of Christ and to pierce his body King My Lord I see you are better provided with Arguments then I am with memorie to run through the series of your Discourse satisfie me but in one thing and I shall soone yield to all that you have said and that is concerning this Catholick Church you talke of I know the creed tels us that we must believe it and Christ tells us that we must hear it but neither tell us that that is the Church of Rome Marq. Gratious Sir the creed tells us that it is the Catholick Church and Saint Paul tells us in his epistle to the Romans that their faith was spread abroad through the whole world King That was the Faith which the Romanes then believed which is nothing to the Roman Faith which is now believed Marq. The Romane Faith then and now are the same King I denie that my Lord. Marq. When did they alter their Faith King That requires a librarie neither is it requisite that I tell you the time when if the envious man sowes his tares whilst the husband-man was asleep and afterwards he awakes and sees the tares are they not tares because the hushand-man knowes not when they were sown Marq. And if it please Your Majestie in a thing that is so apparent your similitude holds good but in the differences between us and the protestants are not so without dispute as that it is yet granted by the major part of Christians that they are errours which we believe contrary to Your Tenents and therefore the similitude holds not but I shall humbly intreat Your Majestie to consider the proofes which the learned Cardinal Peroone hath made concerning this particular in his answer to Your Royall Father his Apologie to all Christian Princes where he proves how that all the Tenents which are in controversie now between you and us were practised in the Church of Christ within the first three hundred years wherefore I think it would be no injury to reason to require belief that that which hath been so long continued in the Church and so universaly received and no time can be set down when those Tenents or Ceremonies did arise must needs be Catholick for time and place and Apostolical for institution though we have no warrant from the Scriptures to believe them to be such For the Apostle Saint Paul commanded Timothy to keep fast the things which he had delivered unto him as well by word as by writ Wherefore if we will believe no tradition we may come at last to believe no writings King That was your own fault wherefore I blame your Church for the way to make the Scriptures not believed were to adde unto them new inventions and say they were Scriptures Marq. If the Church of Christ had so mean esteeme then as amongst some she hath now certainly the former books received into her Cannon would have been much prejudiced by the admittance of the latter wherefore if the Church be questionable then all is brought in question King My Lord you have not satisfied me where this Church is and as concerning the Cardinals book I have seen it and have read a part of it but do not remember neither do I believe that he hath prov'd that which you say Marq. It may be the proofes were in that part of the book which Your Majestie did not read and as for my proving the Romane Church to be this Church by which we should be all guided I thus shall do my endeavour That Church whose Doctrine is most Catholick and universall must be the Catholick Church but the Romane Church is such Ergo. King My Lord I denie your Minor the Romane Church is not more universall the Grecian Church is far more spreading and if it were not it were no Argument for the Church of the Mahumetanes is larger then both Marq. First This is no Argument either for an English Man or a Protestant but for a Grecian or Mahumetane not for an English Man because he received his Conversion from Rome and therefore he in Reason should not

non una exors quaedam iminens detur potestas tot efficerentur in Ecclesia schismata quot Sacerdotes Wherefore I would faine find out that which the Scripture bids me hear audi Ecclesiam I would faine referre my self to that to which the Scripture commands me to appeale and tells me that if I do not I shall be a heathen and a Publican dic Ecclesiae which Church Saint Paul in his first Epistle calls the pillar and foundation of Truth of which the Propbet Ezekiel saith I will place my Sanctification in the midst of her for ever and the Prophet Esay that the Lord would never forsake her in whose light the people shall walke and Kings in the brightness of her Orient Against which our Saviour saith The gates of Hell shall not pervaile with whom our Saviour saith he would be alwayes unto the end of the world And from whom the Spirit of Truth should never depart For although the Psalmist tells us that the word of the Lord is clear inlightning the eyes yet the same Prophet said to God Enlighten mine eyes that I may see the marveils of thy Law And Saint John tells us that the book of God had seven Seales and it was not every one that was thought worthy to open it onely the lambe The Disciples had been ignorant if Jesus had not opened the Scriptures unto them The Eunuch could not understood them without an Interpreter and Saint Peter tels us that the Scripture is not of private Interpretation and that in his brother Pauls epistles there are many things hard to be understood which ignorant and light-headed-men wrest to their own perdition Wherefore though as Saint Chrysostom saith Omnia clara sunt plana exscripturis divinis quaecunque necessaria sunt manifesta sunt yet no man ever hath yet defined what are necessary and what not What points are fundamentall and what are not fundamentall Necessary to Salvation is one thing and necessary for knowledge as an improvement of our faith is an other thing for the first if a man keeps the Commandments and believes all the Articles of the Creed he may be saved though he never read a word of Scripture but much more assuredly if he meditates upon Gods word with the Psalmist day and night But if he meanes to walk by the rule of Gods word and to search the Scriptures he must lay hold upon the means that God hath ordained whereby he may attain unto the true understanding of them for as Saint Paul saith God hath placed in the Church Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Doctors to the end we should be no more little children blowen about with every wind of Doctrine therefore it is not for babes in understanding to take upon them to understand those things wherein so great a Prophet as the Prophet David confessed the darkness of his own ignorance And though it be true the Scripture is a river through which a lambe may wade and an Elephant may swim yet it is to be supposed and understood that the lambe must wade but onely through where the river is foordable It doth not suppose the river to be all alike in depth for such a river was never heard of but there may be places in the river where the lambe may swim as well as the Elephant otherwise it is impossible that an Elephant should swim in the same depth where a lambe may wade though in the same river he may neither is it the meaning of that place that the child of God may wade through the Scripture without directions help or Judges but that the meanest capacitie qualified with a harmeless innocence and desirous to wade through that river of living waters to eternal life may find so much of Comfort and heavenly knowledge there easily to be obtained that he may easily wade through to his eternal Salvation and that there are also places in the same river wherein the highest speculations may plunge themselves in the deep misteries of God Wherefore with pardon crav'd for my presumption in holding Your Majestie in so tedious a discourse as also for my boldness in obtruding my opinion which is except as incomparable Hooker in his Ecclesiasticall pollicy hath well observed the Churches Authority be required herein as necessary hereunto we shall be so far from agreeing upon the true meaning of the Scripture that the outward letter sealed with the inward witness of the Spirit being all hereticks have quoted Scripture and pretended Spirit will not be a warrant sufficient enough for any private man to judge so much as the Scripture to be Scripture or the Gospel it self to be the Gospel of Christ This Church being found out and her Authority allowed of all controversies would be soon decided and although we allow the Scripture to be the lock upon the door which is Christ yet we must allow the Church to be the Key that must open it as Saint Ambrose in his 38. Sermon calls the agreement of the Apostles in the Articles of our beliefe Clavis Scripturae one of whose Articles is I believe the holy Catholick Church As the Lion wants neither strength nor courage nor power nor weapons to seize upon his prey yet he wants a nose to find it out wherefore by naturall instinct he takes to his assistants the little Jack-call a quick sented beast who runs before the Lion and having found out the prey in his language gives the Lion notice of it who soberly untill such time as he fixes his eyes upon the bootie makes his advance but once comming within view of it with a more speed then the swiftest running can make hast he jumps upon it and seizes it Now to apply this to our purpose Christ crucified is the main substance of the Gospel according to the Apostles saying I desire to know nothing but Jesus and him crucified This crucified Christ is the nourishment of our soules according to our Saviours own words Vbi Cadaver ibi aquilae Thereby drawing his Disciples from the curious speculation of his body glorified to the profitable meditation of his body crucified It is the prey of the Elect the dead Carkes feedeth the Eagles Christ crucified nourisheth his Saints according to Saint Johns saying except we eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his bloud we have no life in us him we must mastigate and chew by faith traject and convey him into our hearts as nutriment by meditation and digest him by Coalition whereby we grow one with Christ and Christ becomes one with us according to that saying of Tertullian auditu devorandus est intellectu ruminandus fide digerendus Now for the true understanding of the Scriptures which is no other thing then the finding out of Jesus and him crucified who is the very life of the Scriptures which body of Divinitie is nourished with no other food and all its vaines fil'd with no other bloud though this heavenly food the Scripture have neither force nor

you deny it we say his body is there you say there is nothing but bare bread we have Scripture for it Mat. 20. 26. Take eat this is my body so Luke 22. 19. This is my body which is given for you You say that the bread which we must eat in the Sacrament is but dead bread Christ saith that that bread is living bread you say how can this man give us his flesh to eat we say that that was the objection of Jewes and Infidels 1 John 6. 25. not of Christians and believers you say it was spoken figuratively we say it was spoken really revera or as we translate it indeed John 6. 55. But as the Jewes did so do ye first murmur that Christ should be bread John 6. 41. Secondly that that bread should be flesh John 6. 52. And thirdly that that flesh should be meat indeed John 6. 55. untill at last you cry out with the unbelievers this is a hard saying who can hear it John 6. 60. had this been but a figure certainly Christ would have removed the doubt when he saw them so offended at the reallity Joh. 6. 61. He would not have confirmed his saying in terminis with promise of a greater wonder John 6. 62. you may as well deny his incarnation his ascention and ask ●ow could the man come down from heaven and go up again if incomprehensibility should be sufficient to occasion such scruples in your breasts and that which is worse then naught you have made our Saviours conclusion an argument against the premises for where our Saviour tels them thus to argue according unto flesh and bloud in these words the flesh profiteth nothing and that if they will be enlivened in their understanding they must have faith to believe it in these words it is the Spirit that quickneth John 6. 63. They pervert our Saviours meaning into a contrary sense of their own imagination viz. the flesh profiteth nothing that is to say Christs body is not in the Sacrament but it the Spirit that quickneth that is to say we must onely believe that Christ dyed for us but not that his body is there as if there were any need of so many inculcations pressures offences mis-believings of and in a thing that were no more but a bare memoriall of a thing being a thing nothing more usuall with the Israelites as the twelve stones which were errected as a sign of the children of Israels passing over Jordan That when your children shall ask their Fathers what is meant thereby then ye shall answer them c. Josh 4. there would not have been so much difficulty in the belief if there had not been more in the mystery there would not have been so much offence taken at a memorandum nor so much stumbling at a figure The Fathers are of this opinion Saint Ignat. in Ep ad Smir. Saint Justin Apol 2. ad Antonium Saint Cyprian Ser. 4. de lapsis Saint Ambr. lib. 4. de Sacram. Saint Remigius c. affirm the flesh of Christ to be in the Sacrament and the same flesh which the word of God took in the Virgins wombe Secondly We hold tbat there is in the Church an infallible rule for understanding of Scripture besides the Scripture it self this you deny this we have Scripture for as Rom. 12 16. we must prophesie according to the rule of faith we are bid to walke according to this rule Gal. 6. 16. we must encrease our faith and preach the Gospel according to this rule 1 Cor. 10. 15 this rule of faith the holy Scriptures call a form of doctrine Romans 6. 17. a thing made ready to our hands 2. Cor. 10. 16. that we may not measure our selves by our selves 2 Cor. 10. 12. the depositions committed to the Churches trust 1 Tim. 6. 20. for avoiding of prophane and vain bablings and oppositions of sciences and by this rule of faith is not meant the holy Scriptures for that cannot do it as the Apostle tels us whilst there are unstable men who wrest this way and that way to their own destruction but it is the tradition of the Church and her exposition as it is delivered from hand to hand as most plainly appears 2 Tim. 2. 2. viz. The things which thou hast heard of us not received in writing from me or others among many witnesses the same commit thou to faithfull men who shall be able to teach it to others also Of this opinion are the Fathers Saint Irenaeus 4. chap. 45. Tertull de praescr and Vnicent lir in suo commentario saith It is very needfull in regard of so many errors proceeding from mis-interpretations of Scripture that the line of propheticall and Apostolicall exposition should be directed according to the rule of the Ecclesiasticall and Catholike sense and saith Tertullian praescript advers haeres chap. 11. We do not admit our adversaries to dispute out of Scripture till they can shew who their Ancestors were and from whom they received the Scriptures for the ordinary course of doctrine requires that the first question should be from whom and by whom and to whom the form of Christian Religion was delivered otherwise prescribing against him as a stranger for otherwise if a heathen should come by the Bible as the Eunuch came by the Prophesie of Esay and have no Philip to enterpret it unto him he would find out a Religion rather according to his own fancy then divine verritie In matters of faith Christ bids us to observe and doe whatsoever they bid us who fit in Moses seat Mat. 22. 2. therefore surely there is something more to be observed then only Scripture will you not as well believe what you hear Christ say as what ye hear his Ministers write you hear Christ when you hear them as well as you read Christ when you read his word He that heareth you heareth me Luke 10. 16. We say the Scriptures are not easie to be understood you say they are we have Scripture for it as is before manifested at large the Fathers say as much Saint Irenaeus lib. 2. chap. 47. Origen contr Cels and Saint Ambr. Epist 44. ad Constant calleth the Scripture a Sea and depth of propheticall riddles and Saint Hier. in praefat comment in Ephes and Saint Aug Epist 119. chap 21 saith The things of holy Scripture which I know not are more then those that I know and Saint Denis Bishop of Corinth cited by Eusebius lib. 7. hist. Eccles 20. saith of the Scriptures that the matter thereof was far more profound then his wit could reach We say that this Church cannot erre you say it can we have Scripture for what we say such Scripture that will tell you that fools cannot erre therein Esaiah 35. 8. such Scripture as will tell you if you neglect to hear it you shall be a heathen and a publican Mat. 18. 17. such Scripture as will tell you that this Church shall be unto Christ a glorious Church a Church that shall be

thy Covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is water by this pit could not be meant the place of the damned for they have no share in the Covenant neither are they Christs prisoners but the devils neither could this pit be the grave because Christs grave was a new pit where never any was laid before The Fathers affirm as much Saint Hier in 4. ad Ephes Saint Greg. li. 13. Moral ca. 20. Saint Aug. in Psal 3. 7. v. 1. We hold purgatory fire where satisfaction shall be made for sinnes after death you deny it we have Scripture for it 1 Gor 3. 13. 15. The fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is if any mans work shall de burnt he shall suffer losse but he himselfe shall be saved yet so as by fire Saint Aug so interprets this place upon the 37. Psalme also Saint Amb upon 1 Cor 3. and Ser 20. in Ps 118. Saint Hier lib. 2. chap 13. ad vers Joan Saint Greg li 4. dialog ca 39. Orig. hom 6. in ca 15. Exod. Lastly We hold extream Vnction to be a Sacrament you neither hold it be a Sacrament neither doe you practise it as a duty we have Scripture for it James 5. 13. Is any sick among you let him call the Elders of the Church and let them pray over him annointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up and if he have committed sins they shall be forgiven him Neither any nor all the Sacraments were or could be more effectual mens good nor more substantiall in matter nor more exquisite in forme nor more punctuall in designation of its ministry other Sacraments being bounded within the limits of the souls only good this extends it self to the good both of soul and body he shall recover from his sicknesse and his sins shall be forgiven him and yet it is both left out in your practise and acknowledgment The Fathers are on our side Orig Hom 2. in Levit S. Chrys lib 3. de Sacerd S. Aug in speculo Ser 215. de temp Vener Bed in 6. Marke and S. James and many others Thus most Sacred SIR we have no reason to wave the Scriptures umpirage so that you will hear it speake in the mother language and not produce it as a witnesse on your side when the producers tell us nothing but their owne meaning in a language unknown to all the former ages and then tell us that shee saith so and they will have it so because he that hath a Bible and a sword shall carry away the meaning from him that hath a Bible and ne're a sword nor is it more blasphemy to say that the Scripture is the Churches off-spring because it is the word of God then it is for me to say I am the sonne of such a man because God made me instrumentally I am so and so was shee for as saith S. Aug Evangelio non crederem nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas commoveret I should not believe the Gospel it self unlesse I were moved by the authority of the Church There was a Church before there was a Scripture take which Testament you please We grant you that the Scripture is the Originall of all light yet we see light before we see the Sun and we know there was a light when there was no Sun the one is but the body of the other We grant you the Scriptures to be the Celestiall globe but we must not grant you that every one knowes how to use it or that it is necessary or possible they should We grant that the Scripture is a light to our feet and a lanthorne to our paths then you must grant me that it is requisite that we have a guide or else we may lose our way in the light as well as in the darke We grant you that it is the food of our souls yet there must be some body that must divide or break the bread We grant you that it is the only antidote against the infection of the Devil yet it is not every ones profession to be a compounder of the ingredients We grant Your Majesty the Scripture to be the only sword and buckler to defend a Church from her Ghostly enemies yet I hope you will not have the glorious company of the Apostles and the goodly fellow ship of the Prophets to exclude the noble Army of Martyrs and the holy Church which through all the world doth acknowledge Christ wherefore having shewen Your Majesty how much the Scriptures are ours I shall now consider Your opinions apart from us and see how they are Yours and who sides with You in Your opinion besides Your selfe and first I shall crave the boldnesse to begin with the Protestants of the Church of England The Church of England WHose Religion as it is in opposition to ours consists altogether in denying for what she affirmes we affirme the same as the Real presence the infallibility visibility universality and unity of the Courch confession and remission of sins free-will and possibility of keeping the Commandments c. all these things you deny and you may as well deny the blessed Trinity for we have no such word in Scripture only inference then that which ye have already denied and for which we have plaine Scripture Fathers Councels practise of the Church Whereas matters of so weighty concernment as delivering of mens souls into the Devils hands should not be executed but upon mature deliberation and immergent occasions and not by any but those who have the undoubted authority lest otherwise you make the authority it self to be doubted of that which ye hold positive in your discipline is more erroneous then that which is negative in our Doctrine as your maintaining a woman to be Head Supreame or Moderatrix in the Church who by the Apostles rule is not to speak in the Church or that a Lay-man may be so what Scripture or Fathers or custome have ye for this or that a Lay-man as your Lay-Chancellours should Excommunicate and deliver up soules to Sathan a strange Religion whose Ministers are deny'd the power of remitting sins whilst Lay-men are admitted to the power of retaining them and that upon every ordinary occasion as non-payment of fees and the like Whereas such practises as these have rendred the rod of Aaron no more formidable then a reed shaken with the wind so that you have brought it to this that whilst such men as these were permitted to excommunicate for a three-peny matter the people made not a three-peny matter of their Evcommunication The Church of Saxony NOw for the Church of Saxony you shall find Luther a man not only obtruding new Doctrine upon his Disciples without Scripture or contrary to Scripture but also Doctrine denying Scripture to be Scripture and vilipending those books of Scripture which were received into the Canon and acknowledged to be

in Jul. orat 2. wax tapers in sign of joy for the certainty of their future resurrection The Church then had the picture of Christ and of his Saints both x Euseb de Vita Const out of Churches y Paulin Epist 12. Basil in Martyr Bar and in them and upon the very z Prudent in S. Cassian Altars not to adore them with God like worship but by them to reverence the Souldiers and Champions of Christ The faithfull then used the a Tert de coron milit sign of the cross in all their Conversations b Cyril Cont. J●l l 6. painted it on the portal of all the houses of the faithfull c Hier in Vit. Hil. gave their blessing to the people with their hand by the sign of the cross d Athan cont Idol imployed it to drive away evil spirits e Paul Ep 11. proposed in Jerusalem the very cross to be adored on good fryday Finally the Church held then f Tert de praescrip Iren. l. 3. c. 3. l. 4. c. 32. that to the Catholick Church onely belongs the keeping of the Apostolicall tradition the Authority of interpretation of Scripture and the decision of Controversies of faith and that out of the succession g Cypr de unit Eceles Conc Car 4. c. 1. of her communion of h Hier Cont Lucif Aug de util cred c. 8. her Doctrine i Cypr ad pub Ep 63. ad mag Ep 67. Hier. ad Tit c. 3. and her ministery there was neither Church nor Salvation Neither will I insist with you only upon the word then but before and before and before that even to the first age of all will I shew you our doctrine of the reall presence and holy Sacrifice of the Masse Invocation of Saints Veneration of Reliques and Images Confession and Priestly absolution Purgatory and prayer for the dead Traditions c. In the fift Age or hundred of years Saint Augustine was for the reall and corporall presence a Aug Conc 1. in Psall 33. In the fourth Age Saint Ambrose b Lib 4. de Sacra In the third Age S. Cyprian c 5. and l. de iis qui misteriis initiantur c. 9. c Serm de Coena Dom. prope init In the second Age or hundred of years S. Irenaeus d l. 4. c. 32. infin And in the first Age e Ep ad smirnum u● cit a Theod Dial 3. S. Ignatius Martyr and disciple of St. John the Evangilist Concerning the honour and invocation of Saints In the fifth age we find S. Augustine f Serm. de Verb Apost prope init medit c. 40. li. de loquutionibus in gen prope finem praying to the Virgin Mary and other Saints In the fourth age we find Greg. Naz. praying to S. Basil the great g In Orat 20. quae est in laudem Basil mag And St. Hier Cont Vigil 13. initio In the third age we find S. Origin praying to Father Abraham h Initio sui lamenti In the second age Justin Martyr i Apol 2. ad Anton pium Imper non longe ab initio And in the first age in the Liturgy of S. James the lesse k Ange Med. For the use and veneration of holy Reliques and Images and chiefly of the Holy Cross In the fifth age Saint Augustine l Tract 118. in Joan fine In the fourth age Athanasius m Ad Antiochum principem In the third age Brigin n Hom 8. in diversos Evangelij locos In the second age S. Justin Martyr o Ad quaest 28. Gentilium And in the first age St. Ignatius p Epist ad Phil ante Med. Concerning Confession and Absolutions In the fifth age St. August q Hom 49. ante Med. In the fourth age S. Basil the great r Sui regulis brevior interr 288. In the third age St. Cypr. ſ Serm de lapsis In the second age Tertull. t l. de poenit c. 10. And in the first age St. Clement u Clement Ro Epist 1. Now concerning Purgatory and Prayer for the dead in the fifth age St. Augustin a De Civit. Dei li 26. c. 24. and also Ser. 41. de sanct prope init also Serm. 22. de Verb Apost In the foutrh age St. Ambrose b Ambr. in 1. Cor 3. S. Hier. in Com. in cap. 11. proverb In the third age St. Cypr. c Epist 5. ad Anton post med In the second age Tertull. d li de animae c. 58. de Corona milit c. 3. 4. And in the first age St. Clement l Clem Ro Ep 1. de S Petr prope fin Concerning Traditions in the fifth age St. Augustin f l. 4. de bapt Con. Dona●… c. 24. In the fourth age St. Basil g li de Sp Sancto c. 27. In the third age St. Epiphanius h Heref 61. In the second age St. Irenaeus i li 3. c. 4. And in the first age St. Dennis k Areopag c. 1. Eccles Hierar Now suppose that all these quotations be right The saving of a soul of your own soul of the soul of a King of the souls of so many Kingdomes and the gaining of that Kingdom for a reward which in Comparison of these earthly ones for which you so often fight somuch strive and labour so much for to obtaine your tetrarchate would be a gain for you to lose it so that you might but obtain that would be worth the search and when you have found them to be truly cited I dare trust your judgement that it will tell you that we have not changed our Countenance nor fled our Colours nor fallen away nor altered our Religion nor forsaken our first love nor denied our principles nor brought novelties into the Church but that we do antiquum obtinere whereby we should be forsaken of you for forsaking our selves but rather that we should winne you unto us by being still the same we were when we wonne you first unto us and were at the beginning And is it for the honour of the English Nation famous for the first Christian King and the first Christian Emperour to forsake her mother Church so renowned for antiquitie and to annex their Religion as a codicell to an appeale of a company of Protesters against a decree at Spira and to forsake so glorious a name as Catholick and to take a name upon them wherein they had neither right nor interest and then to take measure of the Scotish Discipline for the new fashion of their souls and to make to themselves posies of the weedings of that Garden into which Christ himself came down a Cant. 6. 1. upon which both the north and south-winds do blow b Cant. 4. 16. in which is a well of living waters and streams from Lebanon c Cant. 4 15. about which is an

and this not onely is but must be the meaning of Saint Gregory for he thus explicates the matter himself lib. 4. ind 13. ep 32. viz. The Care of the Church hath been committed to the Prince of all the Apostles Saint Peter and yet had Saint Peter called himself the Vniversall Apostle in the first sence seeing that Christ Jesus made other Apostles as well as him he had been no Apostle himself but Antichrist and yet this hindred not but that the care and principality was committed unto Peter Whereby you may plainly see how he ascribes a head-ships over the Church whilst he denies the Vniversalitie of Episcopacie Wherefore having shewed Your Majestie my Church I humbly beg that You will be pleased either to give me a few lines in answer hereunto or else to shew me Yours The Kings Paper in answer to the Marquess MY Lord I have perused your Paper whereby I find that it is no strange thing to see error triumph in antiquitie and florish all those ensigns of Universality Succession Unitie Conversion of Nations c. in the face of truth and nothing was so familiar either with the Jews or Gentiles as to besmeare the face of truth with spots of noveltie for this was Jeremiahs case Jerem 44. 16. viz. As for the word which thou hast spoken unto us in the Name of the Lord we will not hearken unto thee but we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouths to burn incense unto the Queen of heaven and to powre out drink-offering unto her as we have done we and our fathers our Kings and our Princes in the Cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem as we have done there is Antiquitie we and our fathers there is Succescession In the Cities of Judah and Jerusalem there is Universalitie so Demetrius urged Antiquitie and Universality for his goddes Diana viz. That her temple should not be despised nor her Magnificence destroyed whom all Asia and the world worshipped So Symacchus that wise Senator though a bitter enemie to the Christians Servanda est inquit tot seculis fides sequendi sunt nobis parentes qui feliciter sequuti sunt suos we must defend that Religion which hath worne out so many ages and follow our Fathers steps who have so happily followed theirs So Prudentius would have put back Christianitie it self viz. Nunc dogma nobis Christianum nascitur post evolutos mille demum Consules Now the Christian Doctrine begins to spring up after the revolution of a thousand Consul-ships But Ezekiel reads us another lecture Ne obdurate cervices vestras ut patres vestri cedite manum Jehovae ingredimini sanctuarium ejus quod sanctificavit in saeculum colite Jehovam Deum vestrum Be not stiff necked as your forefathers were resist not the mightie God enter into his sanctuarie which he hath consecrated for ever and worship yee the Lord your God Radbodus King of Phrygia being about to be baptized asked the Bishop what was become of all his ancestors who were dead without being baptized The Bishop answered that they were all in hell whereupon the King suddenly withdrew himself from the font saying Ibi profecto me illis Comitem adjungam Thither will I go unto them no lesse wise are they who had rather erre with fathers and Councels then rectifie their understanding by the word of God and square their faith according to its rules Our Saviour Christ saith we must not so much hearken to what has been said by them of old time Matth. 21. 12. as to that which he shall tell you where Auditis dictum esse antiquitis is exploded and Ego dico vobis is come in its place which of them all can attribute that credit to be given unto him as is to be given to Saint Paul Yet he would not have us to be followers of him more then he is a follower of Christ 1 Cor. 11. 1. Wherefore if you crie never so loud Sancta mater Ecclesia sancta mater Ecclesia the holy mother Church holy mother Church as of old they had nothing to say for themselves but Templum Domini Templum Domini the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord we will crie as loud again with the Prophet Quomodo facta est meretrix Vrbs fidelis how is the faithfull Citie become a harlot if you vaunt never so much of your Roman Catholick Church we can tell you out of Saint John that she is become the Synagogue of Sathan neither is it impossible but that the house of prayers may be made a Den of theeves you call us hereticks we answer you with Saint Paul Act. 24. 14. After the way which you call heresie so worship we the God of our fathers believing all things which were written in the Law and the Prophets I will grant you that all those marks which you have set done are marks of the true Church and I will grant you more that they were belonging to the Church of Rome but then you must grant me thus much that they are as well belonging to any other Church who hold and maintain that doctrine which the Church of Rome then maintained when she wrought those conversions and not at all to her if she have changed her first love and fallen from her old principles for it will do her no good to keep possession of the keyes when the lock is changed now to try whether she hath done so or no there can be no better way then by searching the Scriptures for though I grant you that the Catholick Church is the white in that butt of earth at which we all must aim yet the Scripture is the heart centre or peg in the midst of that white that holds it up from whence wee must measure especially when wee are all in the white We are all of us in gremio Ecclesiae so that controversies cannot be decided by the Catholick Chruch but by the Scriptures which is the thing by which the nearnes unto truth must be decided for that which must determine truth must not be fallible but whether you mean the consent of Fathers or the decrees of generall Counsels they both have erred I discover no Fathers nakednesse but deplore their infirmities that we should not trust in armes of flesh Tertullian was a montanist Cyprian a rebaptist Origin an Anthropomorphist Heirom a Monoganist Nazianzen an Angelist Eusebius an Arrian Saint Augustine had written so many errors as occasioned the writing of a whole book of retractaions they have often times contradicted one another and some times themselves Now for generall Counsels Did not that Concilium Ariminense conclude for the Arrian heresie Did not that Concilium Ephesinum conclude for the Eutichian heresie Did not ●hat Concilium Carthaginense conclude 〈◊〉 not lawfull for Priests to marry Was not Athanasius condemned In … cilio Tyrio Was not Eiconolatria established In concilio Nicaeno secundo What should I say more when the Apostles