his_o call_n to_o a_o pastoral_a charge_n 2._o because_o the_o five_o minister_n propound_v their_o private_a judgement_n naked_o without_o show_v their_o ground_n from_o the_o scripture_n so_o that_o they_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o deal_v by_o their_o authority_n not_o by_o argument_n now_o the_o mere_a authority_n that_o be_v the_o bare_a affirmation_n of_o godly_a and_o learned_a man_n be_v less_o to_o be_v regard_v then_o their_o reason_n and_o yet_o their_o reason_n without_o the_o word_n be_v of_o no_o value_n in_o divine_a matter_n for_o all_o man_n be_v liar_n apt_a to_o be_v deceive_v and_o so_o to_o deceive_v impossibility_n of_o err_a being_n proper_a to_o the_o scripture_n which_o therefore_o be_v only_o fit_a to_o be_v the_o canon_n or_o rule_n for_o the_o order_n of_o minister_n concern_v their_o whole_a behaviour_n in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n 12.3_o 1._o tim._n 3.14.15_o mat._n 21.13_o mat._n 12.3_o hence_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n 1._o reprove_v disorder_n by_o scripture_n so_o christ_n do_v the_o profane_v of_o the_o temple_n 2_o justify_v thing_n well_o do_v by_o scripture_n so_o christ_n do_v the_o pull_n of_o the_o ear_n of_o corn_n 3._o resolve_v &_o answer_v question_n by_o scripture_n so_o christ_n do_v 15._o mat._n 19.4_o mat._n 15.4_o mat._n 22.29.32_o acts._n 2.1.34_o act._n 15._o in_o the_o case_n of_o divorce_n 4._o confute_v error_n by_o scripture_n so_o christ_n do_v the_o pharisee_n and_o sadducee_n 5._o confirm_v and_o prove_v doctrine_n by_o scripture_n so_o peter_n prove_v the_o resurrection_n and_o ascension_n of_o christ_n &c._n &c._n 6._o give_v advice_n and_o make_v order_n not_o by_o their_o own_o authority_n but_o by_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o immediate_a assistance_n see_v we_o want_v light_n must_v be_v fetch_v from_o scripture_n if_o we_o will_v guide_v other_o safe_o by_o our_o counsel_n without_o which_o learned_a man_n may_v err_v have_v err_v and_o do_v err_v &_o therefore_o their_o judgement_n must_v be_v try_v and_o judge_v by_o it_o and_o no_o further_o be_v rest_v in_o than_o they_o agree_v with_o it_o according_a to_o that_o of_o jerom_n quod_fw-la ex_fw-la scripturâ_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la authoritatem_fw-la câadem_fw-la facilitate_v contemnitur_fw-la quâ_fw-la acceptatur_fw-la 23._o hieron_n in_o math._n 23._o that_o which_o have_v not_o authority_n from_o the_o scripture_n be_v as_o easy_o despise_v as_o receive_v seven_o pretence_n it_o be_v the_o custom_n of_o these_o church_n which_o all_o pretence_n 7._o pretence_n that_o be_v admit_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la do_v promise_n to_o observe_v this_o pretence_n the_o answerer_n insinuate_v in_o that_o which_o he_o say_v about_o the_o form_n of_o mr._n b._n calling_n ans_fw-fr which_o be_v to_o minister_v the_o word_n and_o the_o dependence_n thereof_o according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o these_o reform_a church_n and_o especial_o with_o these_o which_o be_v combine_v with_o the_o classis_fw-la of_o amsterdam_n concern_v that_o expression_n some_o thing_n more_o may_v be_v noated_a in_o the_o examination_n of_o the_o seventeen_o section_n and_o when_o we_o come_v to_o the_o eight_o and_o twentieth_o section_n for_o the_o present_a reply_v we_o will_v oppose_v beside_o all_o consideration_n which_o have_v be_v former_o allege_v or_o may_v be_v hereafter_o two_o thing_n to_o this_o custom_n to_o prove_v that_o this_o can_v be_v the_o order_n of_o these_o reform_a church_n but_o must_v be_v only_o a_o disorder_n creep_v in_o and_o prevayl_v by_o man_n ossitancie_n and_o sleepiness_n which_o be_v satan_n best_a opportunity_n for_o the_o sow_v of_o tare_n which_o i_o shall_v demonstrate_v thus_o first_o oppose_v the_o confession_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n to_o this_o custom_n 13._o ham._n confess_v sect._n 13._o and_o it_o will_v be_v find_v that_o they_o can_v stand_v together_o for_z when_o they_o describe_v qui_fw-la sunt_fw-la baptisandi_fw-la who_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v speak_v of_o infant_n they_o say_v they_o must_v be_v the_o child_n of_o person_n that_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n 13._o covenant_n helvet_n poster_n cap._n 13._o of_o the_o people_n of_o god_n 21._o god_n helvet_n prio_fw-la art_n 21._o et_fw-la bohem_n c._n 21._o of_o holy_a parent_n 35._o parent_n gallic_n art_n 35._o of_o those_o to_o who_o the_o promise_n belong_v 34._o belong_v belgic_a art_n 34._o who_o be_v insert_v into_o the_o church_n and_o only_o they_o 13._o they_o saxon_n confess_v art_n 13._o the_o true_a child_n of_o abraham_n 17._o abraham_n suevit_fw-la cap._n 17._o such_o as_o be_v in_o alike_a condition_n as_o they_o be_v who_o have_v right_a to_o circumcision_n among_o the_o jew_n now_o compare_n with_o this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n the_o practice_n of_o that_o place_n as_o it_o have_v be_v declare_v and_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o their_o own_o confession_n plead_v against_o this_o custom_n and_o how_o can_v that_o be_v call_v the_o order_n of_o these_o reform_a church_n which_o agree_v not_o with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o these_o reform_a church_n second_o oppose_v the_o canon_n of_o the_o synod_n of_o these_o country_n to_o this_o custom_n and_o the_o thing_n will_v be_v manifest_v in_o a_o synod_n hold_v at_o dort_n in_o the_o year_n 1578._o art_n 59_o it_o be_v refer_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n whether_o there_o be_v any_o lawful_a cause_n bring_v by_o any_o why_o the_o child_n to_o be_v baptize_v shall_v be_v defer_v from_o baptism_n and_o in_o art_n 61._o it_o be_v order_v that_o the_o father_n before_o they_o bring_v their_o child_n to_o baptism_n shall_v go_v to_o the_o minister_n or_o a_o elder_a that_o the_o church_n may_v have_v notice_n of_o the_o party_n that_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v and_o in_o art_n 62._o they_o be_v appoint_v to_o acquaint_v the_o minister_n what_o name_n they_o will_v give_v the_o child_n and_o to_o show_v he_o how_o they_o will_v educate_v the_o child_n in_o that_o religion_n in_o a_o synod_n hold_v at_o middleborough_n in_o the_o year_n 1581._o the_o 22._o question_n it_o be_v demand_v whether_o the_o parent_n of_o child_n do_v go_v first_o to_o the_o minister_n or_o elder_n and_o certify_v they_o that_o they_o desire_v to_o have_v their_o child_n baptize_v before_o to_o see_v whether_o they_o judge_v it_o meet_v to_o receive_v such_o witness_n or_o not_o in_o art_n 75._o it_o be_v question_v whether_o the_o minister_n shall_v be_v rebuke_v when_o he_o baptise_v child_n who_o parent_n appoint_v witness_n which_o stand_v not_o for_o religion_n ans_fw-fr the_o parent_n shall_v be_v wont_v as_o much_o as_o be_v possible_a that_o they_o first_o speak_v with_o the_o minister_n before_o they_o present_v their_o child_n to_o baptism_n etc._n etc._n in_o a_o synod_n hold_v at_o vtricht_n in_o the_o year_n 1590._o art_n 1._o it_o be_v decree_v that_o baptism_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v according_a to_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n without_o godfather_n to_o bind_v themselves_o only_o the_o father_n and_o mother_n to_o promise_v to_o train_v it_o up_o in_o the_o religion_n now_o compare_v the_o canon_n of_o these_o synod_n with_o the_o custom_n of_o that_o place_n and_o they_o will_v be_v find_v so_o far_o to_o varye_v from_o it_o that_o it_o will_v appear_v not_o to_o be_v the_o order_n of_o these_o reform_a church_n but_o a_o disorder_n creep_v in_o as_o we_o have_v say_v before_o i_o will_v conclude_v this_o examination_n of_o pretence_n use_v in_o defence_n of_o this_o unwarrantable_a custom_n with_o the_o judicious_a censure_n of_o dr._n ames_n who_o know_v well_o the_o miscarriage_n of_o this_o disorder_n in_o these_o country_n 27.4_o de_fw-fr conscientia_fw-la cap._n 27.4_o incuria_fw-la illa_fw-la idcirco_fw-la neutiquam_fw-la potest_fw-la excusari_fw-la quâ_fw-la promiscuè_fw-fr &_o sine_fw-la disermine_fw-la admittuntur_fw-la quicunque_fw-la et_fw-la a_o quibuscunque_fw-la offeruntur_fw-la therefore_o that_o carelessness_n can_v by_o no_o mean_n be_v excuse_v whereby_o all_o promiscuous_o and_o without_o difference_n be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n by_o whosoever_o they_o be_v present_v and_o so_o much_o shall_v suffice_v for_o the_o examination_n of_o the_o twelve_o section_n and_o for_o declaration_n of_o the_o ground_n whereupon_o i_o dare_v not_o bind_v myself_o by_o promise_n or_o otherwise_o to_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o those_o five_o minister_n that_o be_v to_o conform_v to_o the_o custom_n of_o this_o place_n in_o administer_a baptism_n promiscuous_o to_o all_o that_o be_v presense_v and_o by_o whosoever_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o 13._o section_n examine_v of_o the_o order_n agree_v upon_o in_o the_o consistory_n that_o which_o here_o he_o call_v a_o order_n will_n upon_o examination_n be_v find_v very_o far_o from_o accommodate_v i_o i_o will_v wright_n it_o down_o as_o i_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o elder_n out_o of_o the_o note_n which_o i_o have_v in_o
office_n of_o the_o elder_n who_o he_o fit_o call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d he_o say_v it_o belong_v to_o they_o to_o see_v that_o all_o thing_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n be_v honest_o godly_o and_o orderly_o do_v and_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o signify_v to_o the_o minister_n if_o any_o from_o other_o part_n come_v to_o dwell_v among_o they_o concern_v who_o religion_n they_o be_v not_o satisfy_v that_o they_o may_v be_v deal_v with_o before_o they_o come_v to_o the_o lord_n table_n also_o if_o any_o infant_n be_v to_o be_v baptize_v and_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n of_o that_o kind_n which_o appertain_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o overseer_n for_o the_o profitable_a and_o decent_a administration_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o be_v the_o answerer_n only_o against_o mr._n traverse_n in_o this_o but_o reason_n itself_o be_v against_o he_o take_v from_o the_o very_a foundation_n of_o that_o office_n in_o the_o church_n as_o appear_v in_o what_o be_v already_o say_v concern_v they_o in_o the_o 23._o section_n compare_v with_o what_o have_v be_v by_o i_o declare_v against_o the_o disorder_n of_o promiscuous_a baptise_v in_o the_o 12._o section_n 4._o he_o say_v if_o he_o have_v protest_v against_o such_o a_o order_n etc._n etc._n such_o a_o protest_n may_v have_v serve_v for_o a_o direction_n to_o the_o right_a use_n of_o their_o power_n but_o do_v not_o tend_v to_o the_o destruction_n thereof_o if_o it_o have_v be_v a_o mere_a declaration_n of_o his_o judgement_n and_o resolution_n though_o deliver_v in_o form_n of_o a_o protest_v and_o have_v be_v strengthen_v with_o good_a reason_n and_o have_v be_v leave_v to_o they_o to_o consider_v of_o it_o may_v have_v serve_v for_o a_o correction_n and_o direction_n to_o the_o right_a use_n of_o their_o power_n without_o destroy_v it_o but_o when_o a_o peremptory_a and_o inflexible_a resolution_n of_o oppose_v what_o they_o shall_v do_v against_o his_o mind_n in_o this_o matter_n be_v hold_v forth_o without_o argument_n from_o the_o scripture_n or_o good_a reason_n to_o convince_v they_o of_o the_o equity_n of_o that_o stiffness_n in_o oppose_v and_o when_o it_o be_v not_o leave_v within_o themselves_o but_o carry_v from_o they_o to_o the_o classis_fw-la that_o by_o the_o interposition_n of_o their_o power_n and_o authority_n the_o consistory_n may_v be_v hinder_v from_o execute_v or_o make_v such_o a_o order_n who_o see_v not_o that_o as_o by_o the_o former_a they_o have_v no_o direction_n from_o he_o about_o the_o right_a use_n of_o their_o power_n so_o by_o the_o latter_a their_o power_n be_v destroy_v in_o this_o particular_a which_o may_v be_v prove_v thus_o that_o act_n whereby_o the_o elder_n be_v hinder_v that_o they_o can_v not_o provide_v for_o the_o godly_a comely_a and_o orderly_a administration_n of_o the_o church_n do_v deprive_v the_o elder_n of_o their_o power_n in_o government_n for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o church_n but_o this_o act_n of_o the_o answerer_n in_o hinder_v the_o end_n of_o this_o difference_n about_o baptism_n etc._n etc._n by_o interpose_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la for_o that_o end_n be_v a_o hinder_v of_o they_o from_o provide_v for_o the_o godly_a comely_a and_o orderly_a administration_n of_o the_o church_n ergo._n which_o proposition_n will_v he_o deny_v the_o first_o but_o that_o be_v take_v from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o elder_n office_n as_o have_v be_v show_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o reason_n before_o and_o he_o know_v it_o to_o be_v true_a will_v he_o deny_v the_o assumption_n that_o be_v prove_v by_o what_o i_o have_v show_v in_o the_o 12._o section_n against_o promiscuous_a administration_n of_o baptism_n as_o it_o be_v in_o that_o place_n whence_o it_o will_v appear_v to_o be_v not_o godly_a nor_o comely_a nor_o orderly_o and_o therefore_o the_o elder_n have_v power_n and_o be_v bind_v to_o provide_v that_o it_o be_v not_o do_v in_o that_o church_n 26._o sect._n 26._o in_o the_o 26_o section_n their_o second_o instance_n whereby_o they_o will_v prove_v that_o he_o deprive_v the_o elder_n of_o their_o power_n in_o government_n for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o church_n by_o carry_v matter_n out_o of_o their_o hand_n which_o may_v and_o shall_v have_v be_v end_v in_o the_o consistory_n compl._n compl._n be_v that_o agreement_n which_o be_v among_o they_o that_o i_o shall_v have_v a_o year_n time_n to_o go_v on_o in_o assist_v the_o answerer_n etc._n etc._n now_o let_v we_o see_v how_o this_o be_v answer_v 1._o ans_fw-fr 1._o first_o he_o say_v it_o be_v untrue_a that_o the_o elder_n agree_v i_o shall_v have_v a_o year_n time_n reply_n how_o unjust_a this_o challenge_n be_v may_v appear_v 1._o by_o the_o report_n of_o the_o elder_n themselves_o who_o say_v that_o it_o be_v refer_v to_o voice_n and_o by_o voice_n agree_v that_o i_o shall_v have_v a_o convenient_a time_n and_o it_o be_v particular_o express_v by_o one_o of_o the_o elder_n and_o not_o gainsay_v by_o the_o rest_n that_o a_o year_n time_n will_v be_v convenient_a for_o that_o purpose_n 2._o not_o only_o they_o but_o the_o answerer_n himself_o say_v as_o much_o in_o effect_n for_o in_o the_o 18._o section_n he_o report_v that_o i_o make_v this_o offer_n unto_o they_o that_o if_o the_o consistory_n desire_v it_o i_o will_v continue_v as_o a_o assistant_n in_o preach_v for_o a_o convenient_a time_n that_o i_o may_v therein_o acquaint_v myself_o with_o the_o dutch_a minister_n the_o order_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o synod_n and_o state_n of_o this_o congregation_n etc._n etc._n but_o though_o our_o elder_n like_v of_o this_o offer_n say_v he_o and_o think_v good_a to_o desire_v he_o to_o remain_v with_o we_o as_o a_o assistant_n as_o be_v before_o say_v yet_o i_o think_v it_o not_o safe_a say_v he_o speak_v of_o himself_o without_o first_o take_v advice_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la whereby_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o elder_n like_v of_o the_o offer_n as_o it_o be_v make_v by_o i_o but_o they_o know_v that_o i_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o less_o than_o a_o year_n time_n can_v not_o be_v convenient_a for_o those_o purpose_n and_o that_o i_o mean_v that_o time_n when_o i_o speak_v of_o a_o convenient_a time_n yet_o if_o they_o have_v agree_v that_o six_o month_n or_o three_o month_n shall_v be_v judge_v a_o convenient_a time_n i_o shall_v have_v rest_v therein_o which_o see_v they_o do_v not_o but_o like_v of_o the_o offer_n as_o it_o be_v make_v by_o i_o it_o seem_v their_o purpose_n be_v to_o conclude_v for_o a_o year_n time_n second_o in_o stead_n of_o answer_v 2_o ans_fw-fr 2_o he_o recriminate_v those_o that_o divulge_v the_o secret_a affair_n of_o the_o eldership_n and_o that_o untrue_o reply_n the_o former_a reply_n show_v that_o the_o report_n be_v not_o untrue_a and_o that_o the_o elder_n have_v unlawful_o divulge_v this_o they_o put_v he_o to_o prove_v for_o they_o deny_v that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o acquaint_v the_o member_n with_o passage_n of_o this_o nature_n which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v keep_v secret_a in_o the_o consistory_n when_o they_o tend_v to_o the_o injury_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n three_o his_o three_o answer_n be_v a_o mere_a evasion_n 3_o ans_fw-fr 3_o by_o put_v off_o the_o fault_n from_o himself_o upon_o the_o classis_fw-la reply_n the_o vanity_n of_o which_o pretence_n have_v be_v so_o often_o show_v already_o that_o i_o may_v well_o praetermit_v it_o here_o four_o 4_o ans_fw-fr 4_o in_o his_o four_o answer_n he_o pretend_v to_o give_v reason_n for_o his_o carry_v this_o matter_n into_o the_o classis_fw-la which_o be_v not_o reason_n but_o mere_a pretence_n first_o that_o while_o matter_n be_v thus_o keep_v in_o suspense_n the_o cord_n of_o contention_n shall_v have_v be_v draw_v out_o and_o lengthen_v but_o who_o see_v not_o that_o this_o will_v have_v cut_v the_o cord_n of_o contention_n asunder_o when_o a_o convenient_a time_n have_v be_v give_v for_o the_o compose_n of_o thing_n to_o a_o peaceable_a conclusion_n and_o when_o the_o people_n shall_v see_v his_o regard_n of_o their_o desire_n and_o content_v so_o far_o express_v second_o that_o in_o the_o consistory_n where_o he_o have_v most_o trouble_n he_o shall_v have_v least_o assistance_n but_o by_o this_o course_n he_o will_v have_v less_o trouble_n in_o the_o consistory_n the_o spirit_n of_o man_n be_v somewhat_o quiet_v and_o content_v beside_o i_o see_v not_o but_o he_o may_v have_v escape_v many_o trouble_n there_o if_o he_o have_v not_o make_v trouble_n when_o he_o find_v they_o not_o three_o that_o in_o the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n in_o stead_n of_o a_o assistant_n he_o shall_v have_v a_o resistant_n butler_n how_o can_v he_o be_v a_o resistant_n in_o baptism_n who_o work_n be_v only_o to_o assist_v in_o
be_v govern_v the_o truth_n be_v in_o all_o this_o passage_n appear_v much_o sarcasticall_a bitterness_n unworthy_a of_o the_o learning_n gravity_n and_o holy_a function_n of_o the_o answerer_n yet_o i_o suppose_v the_o complainants_n will_v be_v ready_a if_o they_o be_v call_v to_o answer_v sober_o that_o they_o desire_v no_o other_o church_n government_n unto_o which_o they_o will_v willing_o be_v subject_n then_o that_o which_o christ_n have_v appoint_v the_o church_n to_o be_v under_o what_o that_o be_v if_o they_o know_v not_o he_o aught_v to_o teach_v they_o if_o they_o know_v it_o and_o desire_v it_o he_o aught_v to_o lead_v they_o out_o and_o to_o go_v before_o they_o as_o a_o faithful_a shepherd_n that_o the_o sheep_n may_v follow_v he_o as_o he_o follow_v christ_n &_o not_o to_o praejudice_v they_o against_o any_o good_a way_n by_o a_o scoff_a proposal_n of_o man_n difference_n in_o judgement_n about_o some_o particular_a tract_n or_o turn_v in_o the_o way_n to_o the_o great_a scandal_n and_o offence_n of_o many_o and_o the_o dishonour_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o the_o hindrance_n of_o reformation_n by_o his_o join_n with_o the_o enemy_n thereof_o in_o a_o old_a cavil_n which_o have_v turn_v many_o out_o of_o the_o way_n and_o cause_v some_o to_o return_v back_o to_o a_o mere_a neutrality_n in_o religion_n till_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o agree_v among_o themselves_o about_o the_o path_n wherein_o they_o will_v walk_v whereas_o he_o take_v occasion_n again_o without_o provocation_n to_o mention_v mr._n jacob_n as_o a_o enemy_n to_o class_n and_o synod_n that_o i_o may_v speak_v a_o word_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o the_o dumb_a and_o of_o the_o dead_a i_o have_v examine_v what_o he_o have_v write_v concern_v this_o point_n more_o upon_o this_o occasion_n then_o former_o i_o have_v do_v and_o it_o may_v be_v 5._o treat_v of_o ch._n government_n chap._n 1._o pag._n 13._o chap._n 7._o 88_o 89._o 90_o confess_v art_n 5._o more_o than_o else_o i_o shall_v have_v do_v and_o do_v find_v that_o he_o profess_v his_o agreement_n that_o i_o may_v use_v his_o own_o word_n even_o to_o a_o hair_n with_o calvin_n and_o beza_n touch_v the_o substance_n of_o this_o matter_n and_o that_o he_o acknowledge_v with_o they_o both_o the_o parishional_a and_o diocesan_n presbyterye_n yea_o the_o provincial_a and_o large_a too_o if_o occasion_n serve_v how_o he_o explain_v himself_o herein_o the_o diligent_a reader_n will_v easy_o observe_v in_o other_o passage_n of_o the_o same_o book_n and_o else_o where_o he_o acknowledge_v that_o there_o may_v be_v and_z on_o occasion_n there_o ought_v to_o be_v on_o earth_n a_o consociation_n of_o congregation_n and_o church_n and_o namely_o by_o way_n of_o synod_n but_o not_o a_o subordination_n or_o sure_o not_o a_o subjection_n of_o the_o congregation_n under_o any_o high_o spiritual_a authority_n absolute_a save_v only_a christ_n and_o the_o holy_a scripture_n whereby_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o single_a uncompounded_a policy_n which_o mr_n i_o require_v be_v not_o contrary_a to_o the_o government_n of_o these_o reform_a church_n by_o class_n and_o synod_n right_o order_v 89._o ch._n government_n chap._n 7._o p._n 89._o nay_o rather_o he_o so_o far_o approve_v of_o it_o that_o he_o say_v it_o be_v apostolical_a for_o many_o ordinary_a congregation_n consociate_a together_o in_o their_o spiritual_a government_n to_o have_v a_o diocesan_n or_o large_a synod_n or_o presbytery_n over_o they_o for_o their_o better_a direction_n and_o he_o add_v such_o the_o reform_a church_n at_o this_o day_n do_v enjoy_v but_o if_o he_o think_v by_o mention_v the_o name_n of_o mr._n jacob_n to_o leave_v the_o complainants_n under_o the_o suspicion_n of_o adhaer_v to_o some_o sect_n or_o of_o depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n &_o not_o upon_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n for_o their_o rule_n about_o church_n matter_n he_o will_v be_v find_v to_o be_v injurious_a not_o to_o they_o alone_o but_o to_o christ_n also_o 17._o mat._n 18.17_o 1._o cor_n 5._o coll._n 2.5_o and_o 4.17_o act_n 20.17.28_o rev._n 2_o &_o 3_o 1._o tim._n 3.15_o cha._n 5.21_o chap._n 6.13_o to_o 17._o and_o to_o the_o truth_n first_o to_o christ_n see_v they_o acknowledge_v all_o that_o power_n to_o be_v due_a and_o thereunto_o they_o be_v willing_a to_o submit_v which_o by_o the_o word_n be_v warrant_v to_o be_v that_o whereby_o church_n shall_v be_v govern_v according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o christ_n &_o which_o agree_v with_o the_o pattern_n which_o christ_n leave_v to_o his_o disciple_n and_o which_o the_o apostle_n exact_o follow_v in_o plant_v those_o primitive_a church_n of_o corinth_n colosse_n ephesus_n the_o 7_o golden_a candlestick_n in_o asia_n among_o who_o christ_n walk_v etc._n etc._n and_o which_o paul_n so_o straight_o charge_v timothy_n to_o observe_v in_o all_o church_n affair_n which_o be_v no_o other_o than_o the_o power_n commit_v by_o christ_n to_o particular_a church_n as_o his_o delegate_n for_o the_o right_a order_n of_o themselves_o in_o their_o church_n government_n and_o in_o all_o holy_a administration_n and_o ordinance_n according_a to_o his_o command_n and_o direction_n in_o the_o scripture_n without_o dependence_n upon_o any_o class_n or_o synod_n or_o whatsoever_o humane_a spiritual_a power_n for_o licence_n or_o authority_n to_o be_v receive_v from_o they_o for_o their_o so_o do_v and_o as_o they_o thus_o acknowledge_v all_o that_o power_n under_o which_o the_o church_n be_v subject_v by_o warrant_n of_o the_o word_n to_o be_v due_a so_o they_o profess_v all_o that_o power_n under_o which_o the_o church_n be_v subject_v to_o be_v undue_a which_o the_o word_n do_v not_o warrant_n and_o which_o take_v away_o from_o particular_a church_n that_o power_n which_o by_o christ_n his_o ordinance_n be_v due_a to_o they_o which_o what_o be_v it_o but_o to_o remove_v the_o ancient_a bound_n 9_o prov._n 22.28_o gal._n 5.1.3_o joh._n 9_o &_o to_o thrust_v the_o church_n from_o the_o libertye_n wherein_o they_o be_v command_v to_o stand_v fast_o and_o to_o affect_v a_o undue_a praeheminence_n in_o the_o church_n second_o to_o the_o truth_n while_o it_o be_v present_v to_o the_o view_n of_o all_o man_n under_o the_o show_n of_o some_o singular_a opinion_n or_o error_n rather_o of_o a_o particular_a man_n or_o as_o a_o forlese_a thing_n desert_v of_o all_o her_o witness_n except_v mr._n jacob_n whereas_o so_o much_o as_o the_o complainants_n seem_v to_o require_v as_o appear_v in_o their_o refer_v themselves_o to_o the_o warrant_n of_o the_o word_n have_v be_v acknowledge_v by_o the_o faithful_a witness_n in_o all_o age_n 12.1_o heb._n 12.1_o with_o which_o cloud_n of_o witness_n we_o be_v compass_v about_o as_o the_o israelite_n be_v with_o that_o pillar_n of_o a_o cloud_n wherein_o the_o lord_n go_v before_o they_o by_o day_n 13.21_o exod._n 13.21_o to_o lead_v they_o in_o the_o way_n such_o be_v the_o apostle_n in_o their_o time_n and_o those_o worthy_n as_o cyprian_n and_o those_o of_o who_o eusebius_n take_v notice_n 5._o cypr._n lib._n 3_o epist_n 14._o euseb_n li._n 3_o et_fw-la 4._o et_fw-la 5._o in_o many_o place_n and_o in_o some_o succeed_a instance_n before_o the_o mystery_n wreak_v to_o its_o full_a height_n the_o same_o thing_n may_v appear_v to_o those_o who_o be_v conversant_a in_o the_o wrighting_n of_o the_o centuriator_n to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v those_o who_o have_v handle_v the_o controversye_n concern_v the_o necessity_n and_o authority_n of_o council_n among_o who_o i_o will_v instance_n in_o dr._n whittaker_n who_o arg._n whitt_n de_fw-fr council_n quest_n 5._o arg._n speak_v of_o the_o fullnes_n of_o that_o delegated_a power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o church_n not_o to_o the_o pope_n which_o he_o appli_v to_o the_o key_n in_o bind_v and_o lose_v shut_v and_o open_v retain_v and_o remit_v sin_n say_v that_o this_o power_n belong_v primary_o principal_o and_o essential_o to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o the_o several_a bishop_n only_o accidental_o secundary_o and_o lâ—sse_v principal_o and_o explain_v himself_o by_o a_o rule_n in_o philosophy_n which_o be_v that_o when_o any_o power_n be_v in_o two_o in_o one_o necessary_o &_o essential_o in_o another_o contingent_o and_o accidental_o it_o be_v more_o principal_o in_o he_o in_o who_o it_o be_v necessary_o and_o essential_o then_o in_o he_o who_o it_o be_v only_o contingent_o and_o accidental_o as_o the_o heat_n be_v more_o principal_o in_o the_o fire_n then_o in_o the_o water_n because_o it_o be_v in_o the_o water_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o fire_n so_o say_v he_o see_v this_o jurisdiction_n and_o fullnes_n of_o power_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n necessary_o and_o primary_o but_o to_o the_o pope_n only_o secundary_o and_o by_o the_o church_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o it_o be_v more_o
in_o the_o church_n then_o in_o the_o pope_n what_o that_o learn_v wright_a say_v of_o the_o church_n power_n in_o comparison_n with_o the_o pope_n hold_v in_o all_o other_o parallel_n instance_n to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v those_o who_o have_v write_v concern_v the_o right_a order_n of_o church_n according_a to_o the_o scripture_n i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o give_v a_o catalogue_n of_o their_o name_n though_o i_o may_v be_v plentiful_a therein_o but_o will_v content_v myself_o with_o the_o three_o wrighter_n of_o this_o kind_n who_o the_o answerer_n pretend_v in_o conference_n with_o i_o to_o make_v for_o he_o and_o i_o shall_v show_v they_o to_o be_v strong_o against_o he_o mr_n cartwright_n and_o mr._n fenner_n and_o mr._n parker_n man_n of_o our_o own_o nation_n 53._o sect._n 4._o p._n 53._o 1._o for_o mr._n cartwright_n the_o very_a place_n in_o his_o book_n whereunto_o the_o answerer_n refer_v i_o i_o have_v examine_v before_o and_o have_v show_v how_o little_a help_n he_o will_v have_v from_o he_o 279._o de_fw-fr sacra_fw-la theol._n lib._n 7._o p._n 279._o 2._o for_o m._n fenner_n he_o speak_v of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a presbytery_n distinguish_v between_o the_o eldership_n of_o one_o particular_a church_n which_o he_o say_v be_v proper_o call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o the_o eldership_n of_o many_o church_n 278._o p._n 277._o &_o 278._o the_o eldership_n of_o the_o first_o sort_n he_o say_v be_v a_o compound_n office_n wherein_o all_o the_o elder_n do_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n administer_v all_o the_o buiseness_n of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v of_o the_o lord_n by_o common_a authority_n and_o counsel_n and_o for_o this_o purpose_n he_o allege_v many_o text_n out_o of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n these_o buiseness_n he_o say_v be_v either_o judiciary_n or_o extrajudiciary_n judiciary_n buiseness_n be_v such_o thing_n as_o be_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v either_o matter_n doubtful_a which_o must_v be_v define_v by_o the_o scripture_n or_o censure_n to_o be_v administer_v extrajudiciary_n buiseness_n be_v election_n ordination_n chief_a care_n of_o dispose_v the_o holy_a treasure_n keep_v of_o order_n in_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o thing_n which_o be_v to_o be_v do_v yet_o in_o matter_n of_o great_a moment_n and_o which_o concern_v the_o good_a or_o ruin_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n he_o say_v the_o elder_n after_o consultation_n have_v among_o themselves_o must_v tell_v their_o opinion_n to_o the_o church_n that_o if_o they_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o counsel_n or_o to_o object_n it_o may_v be_v bring_v in_o and_o afterward_o the_o opinion_n and_o assent_n of_o all_o be_v declare_v matter_n be_v to_o be_v conclude_v unless_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o refer_v the_o buisenes_n to_o a_o great_a assembly_n of_o elder_n for_o the_o avoid_n or_o compose_v of_o difference_n which_o be_v then_o to_o be_v do_v when_o the_o difference_n be_v between_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o these_o matter_n of_o the_o great_a moment_n be_v the_o censure_n excommunication_n and_o absolution_n from_o it_o which_o be_v to_o be_v do_v in_o the_o assembly_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n order_n also_o of_o the_o great_a moment_n to_o be_v make_v controversye_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v compose_v the_o election_n and_o just_a depose_n of_o minister_n &_o other_o thing_n equal_a to_o these_o or_o great_a than_o they_o all_o which_o must_v be_v thus_o transact_v as_o he_o plentiful_o declare_v from_o scripture_n thus_o i_o have_v faithful_o translate_v the_o word_n of_o this_o eminent_a light_n in_o his_o time_n mr._n dudley_n fenner_n who_o be_v join_v with_o mr._n cartwright_n in_o the_o public_a ministry_n to_o the_o english_a company_n in_o antwerp_n to_o who_o and_o to_o that_o work_n of_o his_o mr._n cartwright_n in_o a_o epistle_n to_o he_o prefix_a to_o that_o book_n give_v a_o singular_a testimony_n compare_v he_o to_o moses_n who_o from_o mount_n nebo_n view_v the_o whole_a land_n of_o canaan_n as_o it_o be_v with_o one_o cast_v of_o his_o eye_n to_o who_o the_o answerer_n himself_o refer_v i_o wherein_o i_o admire_v his_o confidence_n as_o to_o one_o that_o make_v for_o he_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v how_o he_o leave_v the_o whole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o particular_a church_n and_o bind_v they_o no_o further_o to_o make_v use_n of_o other_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n out_o of_o themselves_o than_o necessity_n require_v and_o he_o do_v not_o acknowledge_v that_o it_o be_v a_o case_n of_o that_o necessity_n but_o when_o the_o avoid_n of_o trouble_n and_o dissension_n in_o the_o church_n make_v it_o necessary_a and_o when_o be_v that_o not_o when_o one_o alone_o contentious_o differ_v from_o all_o the_o rest_n but_o when_o the_o difference_n be_v among_o the_o great_a part_n and_o that_o in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o judgement_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v first_o to_o be_v try_v and_o the_o opinion_n and_o assent_v of_o all_o be_v declare_v matter_n be_v to_o be_v conclude_v 280._o idem_fw-la ibid._n p._n 280._o else_o where_o he_o say_v that_o the_o presbytery_n of_o many_o church_n be_v to_o compose_v and_o end_v such_o thing_n only_o as_o can_v be_v end_v in_o particular_a church_n act._n 15.1_o to_o 8._o 2._o chron._n 20.33_o act._n 16.4_o and_o these_o be_v case_n either_o proper_a to_o those_o church_n which_o be_v bring_v to_o they_o or_o thing_n common_a to_o many_o church_n and_o so_o take_v up_o by_o they_o i_o demand_v of_o the_o answerer_n whether_o he_o be_v of_o this_o worthy_a wrighter_n judgement_n or_o not_o if_o not_o why_o do_v he_o refer_v i_o to_o he_o for_o satisfaction_n if_o yea_o why_o be_v his_o practice_n so_o different_a from_o it_o for_o in_o this_o buisenes_n though_o of_o so_o great_a consequence_n that_o it_o endanger_v the_o break_n of_o the_o church_n if_o i_o have_v not_o sit_v down_o quiet_o and_o suffer_v wrong_v for_o peace_n sake_n the_o answerer_n alone_o oppose_v the_o desire_n of_o the_o elder_n and_o of_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o buisenes_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o church_n and_o which_o may_v have_v be_v end_v among_o themselves_o yet_o against_o the_o liberty_n and_o right_n of_o the_o church_n if_o mr._n fenner_n judgement_n be_v right_a he_o will_v carry_v it_o to_o the_o classis_fw-la that_o he_o may_v effect_v his_o purpose_n 1._o de_fw-fr polit_fw-la eccles_n lib._n 3._o chap._n 1._o 3._o for_o mr._n parker_n he_o large_o and_o strong_o prove_v this_o position_n potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la essentialiter_fw-la &_o primario_fw-la in_o ipsâ_fw-la fcclâ—siâ_fw-la tanquam_fw-la in_o subjecto_fw-la proprio_fw-la residet_fw-la the_o power_n ecclesiastical_a do_v essential_o &_o primary_o reside_v in_o the_o church_n itself_o as_o in_o its_o proper_a subject_n the_o sense_n wherein_o he_o thus_o speak_v to_o prevent_v all_o suspicion_n of_o his_o plead_n for_o popular_a confusion_n he_o declare_v out_o of_o zanchy_a who_o say_v 3._o zanch_n in_o precept_n 4._o quest_n 3._o toti_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la dedisse_fw-la christum_fw-la clave_n sed_fw-la ita_fw-la ut_fw-la in_o ecclesiâ_fw-la certi_fw-la essent_fw-la qui_fw-la clavibus_fw-la utantur_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la honoremque_fw-la dei_fw-la that_o christ_n give_v the_o key_n to_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o so_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v certain_a man_n that_o shall_v use_v the_o key_n to_o the_o good_a of_o the_o church_n and_o glory_n of_o god_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o former_a that_o the_o right_n of_o power_n be_v in_o every_o particular_a church_n he_o use_v five_o argument_n in_o the_o 6_o &_o 7._o chapter_n &_o then_o in_o the_o 8._o chapter_n he_o come_v to_o speak_v of_o the_o excercise_n and_o ordinary_a execution_n of_o this_o power_n which_o be_v he_o say_v in_o the_o church-officer_n or_o ruler_n yet_o with_o this_o moderation_n that_o this_o dispensation_n of_o the_o church_n power_n in_o the_o officer_n be_v according_a to_o a_o well_o temper_a form_n partly_o aristocratical_a partly_o democraticall_a the_o church_n commit_v those_o thing_n to_o the_o presbytery_n which_o it_o can_v not_o commodious_o perform_v by_o itself_o and_o retain_v that_o excercise_n of_o power_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o dignity_n authority_n and_o liberty_n which_o it_o have_v receive_v from_o christ_n thus_o he_o whole_o destroy_v that_o democraty_n or_o popular_a anarchy_n which_o beza_n just_o condemn_v in_o morellius_n and_o be_v by_o some_o unjust_o impute_v to_o those_o that_o plead_v for_o a_o due_a reformation_n of_o church_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n and_o the_o primitive_a pattern_n of_o the_o first_o sort_n of_o thing_n which_o the_o church_n commit_v to_o the_o ruler_n because_o it_o can_v commodious_o perform_v they_o by_o
sufficient_a evidence_n whereupon_o to_o ground_n so_o deep_a a_o accusation_n as_o that_o of_o schysme_n be_v if_o so_o let_v he_o show_v it_o by_o scripture_n or_o good_a reason_n but_o with_o all_o to_o guide_v his_o judgement_n let_v he_o know_v that_o the_o mere_a preach_n as_o assistant_n in_o a_o church_n at_o the_o entreaty_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o number_v among_o those_o common_a cause_n which_o by_o the_o order_n of_o these_o reform_a church_n be_v appropriate_v to_o the_o cognition_n or_o consent_n of_o the_o class_n it_o be_v in_o itself_o to_o be_v account_v among_o the_o thing_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o particular_a church_n and_o be_v it_o a_o schysmaticall_a tenet_n to_o hold_v that_o thing_n proper_a to_o particular_a church_n be_v under_o the_o power_n of_o particular_a church_n which_o be_v chief_a in_o matter_n that_o be_v proper_o their_o own_o what_o then_o will_v he_o say_v to_o that_o canon_n of_o the_o synod_n at_o middleborough_n those_o thing_n shall_v not_o be_v handle_v in_o the_o great_a assembly_n which_o may_v be_v end_v in_o the_o lesser_a can._n 25._o &_o to_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o synod_n of_o 3_o nation_n cap._n 17._o &_o 18._o &_o to_o the_o synod_n at_o emden_n cap._n 2._o &_o to_o that_o canon_n in_o the_o harmony_n of_o the_o belgic_a sinod_n that_o those_o matter_n only_o shall_v be_v bring_v into_o the_o class_n which_o can_v be_v end_v in_o the_o consistory_n cap._n 7._o art_n 6._o see_v zepperus_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 5._o be_v these_o synod_n schysmaticall_a conventicle_n or_o be_v their_o canon_n schysmaticall_a conclusion_n how_o then_o be_v this_o which_o i_o affirm_v schysmaticall_a to_o brand_v i_o with_o a_o imputation_n of_o schysme_n he_o spare_v not_o these_o synod_n which_o deliver_v the_o same_o thing_n in_o effect_n that_o i_o say_v and_o all_o those_o worthy_n who_o have_v write_v concern_v ecclesiastical_a discipline_n or_o the_o authority_n of_o council_n of_o who_o we_o speak_v in_o the_o former_a section_n or_o which_o have_v handle_v the_o power_n of_o particular_a church_n in_o choose_v their_o own_o pastor_n of_o who_o we_o speak_v in_o the_o forego_n section_n yea_o i_o wish_v he_o may_v not_o be_v find_v to_o bear_v false_a witness_n against_o the_o truth_n itself_o in_o the_o scripture_n which_o we_o have_v declare_v in_o both_o those_o section_n to_o warrant_v so_o much_o as_o i_o have_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n 4._o his_o four_o answer_n suppose_v that_o eminent_a man_n may_v cause_v eminent_a danger_n by_o their_o private_a opinion_n the_o man_n in_o who_o he_o instance_v i_o confess_v be_v not_o inferior_a to_o either_o of_o we_o in_o learning_n but_o that_o which_o he_o intimate_v concern_v opinion_n hold_v by_o they_o which_o tend_v to_o the_o ruin_n and_o desolation_n of_o church_n if_o he_o apply_v it_o to_o this_o question_n about_o the_o power_n of_o particular_a church_n to_o admit_v of_o minister_n to_o preach_v as_o assistant_n i_o can_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v true_a upon_o the_o former_a ground_n but_o if_o he_o mean_v any_o other_o opinion_n or_o practice_n it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o matter_n in_o question_n 5._o in_o his_o five_o answer_n upon_o his_o observation_n that_o the_o complainants_n in_o their_o particular_a greivance_n mention_v i_o he_o infer_v that_o their_o inordinate_a desire_n of_o i_o have_v make_v this_o trouble_n to_o the_o church_n but._n 1._o neither_o the_o ground_n nor_o the_o inference_n be_v right_a 1._o not_o the_o ground_n for_o they_o mention_v not_o i_o alone_o but_o other_o also_o 2_o nor_o the_o inference_n for_o will_v their_o complain_n of_o injury_n do_v to_o they_o in_o a_o particular_a reference_n to_o i_o prove_v their_o desire_n of_o i_o to_o be_v inordinate_a by_o what_o medium_n let_v he_o frame_v his_o argument_n into_o a_o syllogism_n and_o it_o will_v appear_v to_o be_v sophistical_a and_o ridiculous_a but_o i_o spare_v he_o 2._o how_o easy_o may_v they_o or_o i_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n &_o warrant_n prove_v that_o his_o inordinate_a desire_n of_o have_v his_o own_o will_n that_o i_o say_v no_o more_o have_v make_v this_o trouble_n in_o the_o church_n by_o draw_v all_o the_o line_n of_o the_o several_a section_n in_o the_o circle_n and_o circumference_n of_o their_o complaint_n to_o that_o as_o the_o only_a centre_n but_o i_o do_v not_o affect_v in_o circuitu_fw-la ambulare_fw-la 6._o in_o his_o sixth_o answer_n which_o be_v to_o their_o parenthesis_n wherein_o they_o note_n that_o he_o will_v have_v have_v other_o that_o to_o this_o day_n hold_v the_o same_o opinion_n such_o be_v the_o invincible_a power_n of_o truth_n that_o his_o own_o word_n concern_v those_o two_o instance_n be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o thing_n which_o he_o will_v deny_v if_o what_o i_o have_v write_v in_o the_o 11._o section_n concern_v his_o private_a conference_n with_o i_o be_v compare_v with_o what_o himself_o confess_v mr._n b_o write_v to_o he_o and_o with_o his_o own_o acknowledgement_n of_o mr._n r._n agreement_n with_o i_o in_o his_o three_o and_o last_o answer_n to_o that_o instance_n nor_o be_v his_o desire_n of_o have_v they_o complain_v of_o for_o in_o the_o enjoyment_n of_o either_o of_o they_o they_o have_v be_v happy_a but_o his_o partial_a stick_v at_o that_o in_o i_o which_o he_o will_v have_v pass_v by_o in_o they_o the_o 29._o section_n examine_v concern_v the_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o make_v law_n in_o this_o section_n they_o produce_v the_o second_o proof_n of_o the_o justness_n their_o complaint_n of_o his_o subject_n the_o church_n under_o a_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la viz_o his_o give_v they_o power_n to_o make_v law_n and_o order_n whereunto_o whosoever_o will_v be_v minister_n of_o that_o church_n must_v submit_v for_o proof_n hereof_o they_o give_v two_o instance_n 1._o that_o they_o bound_v minister_n to_o observe_v the_o order_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o dutch_a church_n 2._o their_o second_o instance_n be_v concern_v this_o order_n of_o promiscuous_a baptise_v which_o they_o make_v a_o condition_n of_o my_o admittance_n to_o that_o ministry_n the_o justness_n of_o their_o lay_v the_o blame_n of_o boath_n these_o upon_o the_o answerer_n they_o prove_v 1._o because_o some_o of_o the_o dutch_a preacher_n themselves_o have_v declare_v their_o willingness_n to_o cast_v off_o some_o of_o those_o custom_n if_o the_o vastness_n of_o their_o church_n will_v permâ—â—_n it_o 2._o because_o one_o of_o they_o say_v to_o the_o answerer_n in_o the_o classis_fw-la upon_o occasion_n of_o his_o complain_n of_o my_o not_o conform_v to_o their_o order_n you_o yourself_o do_v not_o conform_v to_o all_o our_o order_n 3._o because_o they_o have_v profess_v that_o they_o shall_v have_v be_v glad_a that_o the_o difference_n have_v be_v end_v among_o ourselves_o 4._o because_o he_o have_v of_o late_o require_v of_o the_o elder_n that_o a_o order_n may_v be_v make_v in_o the_o consistory_n that_o whatsoever_o minister_n shall_v hereafter_o be_v call_v to_o that_o church_n shall_v conform_v to_o that_o writing_n of_o the_o five_o minister_n now_o let_v we_o see_v what_o answer_v he_o pretend_v to_o make_v 1._o to_o their_o complaint_n against_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o this_o particular_a 2._o to_o their_o complaint_n of_o his_o give_v this_o undue_a power_n to_o the_o classis_fw-la first_o to_o their_o complaint_n of_o the_o undue_a proceed_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la herein_o he_o answer_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o he_o neither_o deny_v the_o fact_n nor_o give_v any_o satisfaction_n about_o the_o equity_n of_o it_o in_o a_o word_n he_o so_o answer_v as_o if_o he_o saught_v nothing_o else_o but_o how_o to_o evade_v answer_v and_o to_o get_v some_o hole_n to_o hide_v his_o head_n in_o wherefore_o that_o the_o truth_n in_o this_o matter_n may_v appear_v we_o will_v consider_v two_o thing_n 1._o de_fw-la facto_fw-la whether_o they_o have_v make_v such_o law_n and_o order_n or_o not_o 2._o de_fw-la jure_fw-la whether_o they_o have_v do_v it_o by_o a_o due_a or_o by_o a_o undue_a power_n 1._o that_o they_o have_v make_v such_o law_n and_o order_n can_v not_o be_v deny_v for_o if_o the_o praescription_n of_o necessary_a observance_n be_v a_o law_n if_o the_o imposition_n of_o any_o thing_n with_o a_o bind_a power_n be_v a_o law_n if_o the_o decree_n to_o the_o obedience_n whereof_o man_n be_v any_o way_n compel_v be_v law_n the_o thing_n instance_a in_o to_o wit_n conformity_n to_o their_o ecclesiastical_a custom_n and_o promiscuous_a administration_n of_o baptism_n according_a to_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o five_o minister_n be_v impose_v as_o law_n upon_o i_o for_o do_v they_o not_o bind_v i_o to_o rest_v in_o that_o writing_n and_o to_o conform_v to_o those_o custom_n
work_n of_o his_o ministry_n towards_o those_o that_o be_v not_o of_o his_o flock_n &_o charge_n by_o deny_v the_o argument_n in_o every_o one_o of_o his_o proof_n but_o enough_o have_v be_v say_v already_o and_o my_o desire_n be_v only_o to_o satisfy_v all_o man_n concern_v what_o i_o write_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la be_v call_v and_o compel_v thereunto_o 2._o the_o second_o text_n be_v in_o coll._n 4.17_o say_v to_o archippus_n take_v heed_n to_o the_o ministry_n which_o thou_o have_v receive_v in_o the_o lord_n that_o thou_o fulfil_v it_o ans_fw-fr the_o answerer_n say_v the_o answer_n make_v to_o the_o former_a allegation_n may_v serve_v for_o answer_v of_o this_o reply_n it_o may_v so_o even_o as_o fit_o as_o for_o that_o that_o be_v not_o at_o all_o as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o examination_n of_o those_o answer_n only_o one_o thing_n more_o we_o will_v add_v from_o hence_o to_o what_o have_v be_v say_v that_o as_o the_o apostle_n take_v no_o such_o power_n to_o themselves_o to_o bind_v minister_n to_o do_v the_o work_n of_o their_o ministry_n to_o those_o who_o be_v not_o of_o their_o church_n so_o the_o church_n also_o have_v not_o power_n to_o require_v any_o more_o of_o they_o and_o therefore_o the_o classis_fw-la can_v who_o have_v no_o more_o power_n than_o be_v give_v they_o by_o the_o church_n in_o that_o combination_n ans_fw-fr 1._o yet_o from_o hence_o also_o diverse_a thing_n be_v to_o be_v observe_v 1._o that_o if_o the_o ministry_n aught_v to_o be_v fullfil_v than_o not_o to_o be_v light_o forsake_v etc._n etc._n reply_n true_a but_o if_o the_o church_n give_v a_o orderly_a dimission_n upon_o just_a cause_n as_o it_o be_v in_o my_o case_n the_o ministry_n be_v not_o light_o forsake_v but_o fullfil_v so_o far_o as_o the_o church_n do_v or_o can_v reasonable_o require_v it_o and_o therein_o that_o text_n be_v satisfy_v ans_fw-fr 2._o if_o the_o ministry_n aught_v to_o be_v fullfil_v then_o be_v the_o minister_n to_o declare_v the_o whole_a will_n and_o counsel_n of_o god_n so_o far_o as_o it_o be_v reveal_v to_o they_o for_o the_o good_a of_o god_n people_n act._n 20.20.27_o reply_n true_a neither_o have_v i_o be_v altogether_o want_v to_o the_o discharge_n of_o this_o duty_n in_o my_o measure_n and_o in_o that_o manner_n as_o may_v be_v for_o the_o good_a of_o god_n people_n his_o three_o answer_n have_v be_v reply_v unto_o in_o sect._n 20._o and_o therefore_o to_o add_v more_o in_o this_o place_n be_v but_o actum_fw-la agere_fw-la lose_v labour_n as_o the_o answerer_n will_v have_v every_o godly_a minister_n consider_v whether_o it_o be_v not_o meet_v that_o each_o of_o these_o thing_n shall_v be_v due_o regard_v of_o they_o so_o i_o can_v add_v other_o consideration_n and_o observation_n which_o may_v be_v not_o unproffitable_a yet_o lest_o i_o shall_v seem_v to_o render_v reproach_n for_o reproach_n i_o will_v forbear_v they_o and_o spare_v he_o 3._o the_o three_o text_n be_v in_o 1._o pet._n 5.2_o feed_v the_o flock_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o be_v among_o you_o ans_fw-fr the_o strength_n of_o that_o objection_n which_o be_v employ_v in_o these_o word_n have_v be_v already_o take_v away_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o former_a allegation_n act._n 20.28_o reply_n as_o in_o the_o former_a place_n so_o in_o this_o no_o more_o be_v require_v of_o pastor_n by_o virtue_n of_o their_o office_n then_o to_o feed_v that_o flock_n to_o the_o tend_v whereof_o themselves_o be_v design_v by_o a_o singular_a appointment_n ans_fw-fr 1._o the_o similitude_n take_v from_o shepherd_n do_v not_o restrain_v minister_n from_o excercise_v some_o act_n of_o their_o ministry_n towards_o those_o who_o be_v no_o member_n of_o their_o church_n see_v shepherd_n for_o the_o defence_n and_o benefit_n of_o their_o flock_n combine_v themselves_o etc._n etc._n reply_n the_o combination_n of_o shepherd_n be_v a_o good_a emblem_n of_o a_o well_o order_v combination_n of_o diverse_a minister_n for_o 1._o it_o be_v in_o common_a case_n of_o danger_n to_o the_o flock_n or_o for_o mutual_a assistance_n in_o difficult_a case_n as_o appear_v in_o those_o instance_n allege_v by_o he_o gen._n 29.7.8.9_o esay_n 31.4_o luke_n 2.8_o 2._o it_o be_v for_o the_o good_a and_o help_v not_o for_o the_o hurt_n &_o hindrance_n of_o the_o flock_n 3._o not_o one_o shepherd_n be_v straighten_v in_o the_o discharge_n of_o any_o pastoral_a duty_n to_o his_o flock_n or_o bind_v to_o perform_v the_o office_n of_o a_o shepherd_n to_o any_o other_o flock_n or_o sheep_n than_o those_o whereunto_o he_o be_v appoint_v by_o the_o lord_n and_o owner_n of_o the_o flock_n from_o who_o he_o receive_v his_o commission_n and_o in_o such_o a_o way_n of_o combination_n among_o minister_n much_o good_a may_v redound_v to_o particular_a church_n and_o to_o the_o pastor_n thereof_o ans_fw-fr 2._o the_o word_n translate_v feed_v do_v also_o signify_v to_o rule_v and_o govern_v if_o this_o kind_n of_o feed_v be_v restrain_v to_o one_o congregation_n then_o be_v the_o authority_n of_o class_n overthrow_v then_o be_v it_o unlawful_a for_o assembly_n of_o minister_n to_o give_v their_o voice_n for_o the_o decision_n of_o controversy_n in_o any_o congregation_n but_o their_o own_o contrary_a to_o ezek._n 34.12_o reply_n to_o feed_v in_o this_o place_n be_v to_o govern_v as_o become_v shepherd_n that_o be_v servant_n 22.27_o luke_n 22.27_o not_o as_o lord_n of_o the_o flock_n which_o be_v there_o forbid_a vers_fw-la 3._o from_o the_o appearance_n whereof_o they_o be_v not_o free_a 5.3_o dr._n ames_n in_o 1._o pet._n 5.3_o 1._o that_o will_v have_v the_o church_n in_o any_o sort_n to_o depend_v upon_o their_o authority_n 2._o which_o prescribe_v any_o thing_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v by_o pastor_n or_o people_n which_o be_v not_o draw_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n 3._o who_o declare_v the_o will_n of_o god_n itself_o too_o imperious_o have_v no_o respect_n to_o their_o infirmity_n with_o who_o they_o have_v to_o do_v now_o such_o a_o government_n do_v not_o overthrow_v any_o lawful_a authority_n of_o class_n much_o less_o do_v it_o argue_v it_o to_o be_v unlawful_a for_o assembly_n of_o minister_n to_o give_v their_o voice_n for_o the_o decision_n of_o controversy_n whereby_o the_o right_a order_n of_o particular_a church_n be_v not_o hinder_v but_o further_v neither_o do_v that_o scripture_n allege_v by_o he_o contradict_v any_o thing_n here_o speak_v nor_o indeed_o do_v he_o show_v how_o it_o serve_v for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o he_o produce_v it_o ans_fw-fr 3._o if_o we_o consider_v the_o person_n to_o who_o peter_n write_v this_o epistle_n the_o elect_a stranger_n disperse_v 1._o pet._n 1.1.2_o and_o their_o manifold_a necessity_n in_o those_o time_n of_o persecution_n what_o a_o unreasonable_a thing_n be_v it_o to_o imagine_v that_o the_o minister_n of_o those_o country_n may_v not_o excercise_n some_o act_n of_o their_o ministry_n for_o baptise_v of_o those_o disperse_a stranger_n etc._n etc._n reply_n see_v the_o question_n be_v only_o of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o bind_v a_o minister_n according_a to_o the_o tenor_n of_o that_o writing_n of_o the_o five_o minister_n and_o see_v i_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o profess_v my_o readiness_n to_o baptise_v those_o that_o be_v not_o member_n of_o this_o church_n if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o any_o true_a church_n i_o see_v not_o how_o this_o exception_n be_v of_o any_o validity_n against_o any_o thing_n say_v by_o i_o in_o that_o writing_n unless_o he_o will_v accuse_v the_o apostle_n of_o unreasonableness_n in_o not_o make_v some_o order_n for_o that_o classical_a authority_n which_o he_o fancy_v 4._o his_o four_o answer_n be_v of_o no_o use_n in_o this_o question_n the_o premise_n be_v consider_v another_o place_n of_o scripture_n rom_n 14.5.23_o be_v allege_v by_o i_o to_o show_v that_o they_o may_v not_o warrantable_o bind_v i_o to_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n see_v i_o can_v not_o do_v it_o with_o persuasion_n of_o the_o lawfullnes_n of_o it_o and_o fear_v that_o in_o do_v it_o i_o shall_v sin_v against_o christ_n ans_fw-fr 1._o the_o apostle_n here_o speak_v of_o doubt_v about_o thing_n indifferent_a etc._n etc._n reply_n 1._o if_o this_o thing_n be_v necessary_a to_o the_o call_n and_o office_n of_o a_o minister_n which_o be_v in_o question_n it_o have_v concern_v they_o or_o he_o to_o show_v in_o what_o respect_n it_o be_v necessary_a whether_o by_o any_o command_n of_o christ_n which_o can_v not_o be_v obey_v in_o the_o discharge_n of_o of_o the_o pastoral_a office_n without_o do_v this_o or_o as_o a_o mean_a necessary_o conduce_v to_o the_o end_n whereunto_o the_o pastoral_a office_n serve_v 2._o if_o the_o apostle_n will_v not_o have_v man_n bind_v to_o the_o do_v of_o
he_o shall_v have_v labour_v private_o to_o convince_v mr._n pet._n by_o word_n or_o writing_n and_o have_v publish_v it_o thus_o to_o the_o world_n 3._o if_o he_o will_v publish_v it_o in_o such_o a_o disorderly_a &_o unwarrantable_a manner_n yet_o he_o shall_v have_v declare_v the_o justness_n of_o his_o reproof_n by_o show_v what_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n be_v transgress_v by_o mr._n pet._n in_o so_o do_v else_o he_o will_v be_v find_v guilty_a of_o add_v to_o the_o word_n and_o of_o make_v eleven_o commandment_n and_o for_o the_o complainants_n at_o who_o he_o gird_v i_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o do_v add_v that_o the_o best_a way_n for_o his_o own_o account_n and_o their_o comfort_n have_v be_v for_o he_o to_o have_v join_v with_o they_o in_o desire_v the_o assistance_n of_o some_o faithful_a minister_n who_o god_n shall_v point_v out_o by_o the_o earnest_n and_o joint_a desire_n of_o the_o congregation_n that_o so_o they_o may_v not_o have_v just_o plead_v for_o themselves_o that_o they_o have_v be_v constrain_v to_o seek_v abroad_o through_o want_n of_o comfortable_a supply_n at_o home_n another_o pretend_a opposition_n be_v between_o mr._n forbes_n and_o mr._n h._n touch_v the_o authority_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n examine_v the_o pretend_a opposition_n between_o mr._n f._n &_o mr._n h._n examine_v 1._o have_v he_o show_v in_o what_o point_n the_o opposition_n do_v consist_v i_o shall_v have_v answer_v and_o show_v that_o neither_o do_v mr._n h._n condemn_v all_o use_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n nor_o mr._n f._n acknowledge_v all_o that_o authority_n to_o be_v due_a to_o they_o which_o some_o man_n for_o advantage_n sake_n ascribe_v to_o they_o or_o other_o out_o of_o a_o inordinate_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v ready_a sometime_o to_o assume_v to_o themselves_o 2._o but_o be_v it_o so_o though_o no_o such_o thing_n appear_v in_o the_o 21_o question_n or_o otherwise_o that_o i_o know_v that_o they_o be_v herein_o opposite_a each_o to_o other_o do_v mr._n f._n reject_v or_o oppose_v mr._n h._n for_o any_o such_o difference_n do_v he_o not_o earnest_o desire_v and_o cheerful_o embrace_v his_o fellowship_n in_o the_o work_n with_o he_o do_v they_o not_o live_v together_o for_o the_o space_n of_o about_o 2._o year_n so_o like_o brethren_n that_o a_o indifferent_a observer_n may_v say_v of_o they_o 11._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o vita_fw-la naz._n 2._o cor._n 12_o 18._o 2._o sam._n 10_o 11._o as_o it_o be_v say_v of_o great_a basill_n and_o nazianzen_n there_o seem_v to_o be_v one_o soul_n in_o two_o body_n or_o as_o paul_n say_v of_o himself_o and_o titus_n walk_v we_o not_o in_o the_o same_o spirit_n walk_v we_o not_o in_o the_o same_o step_n if_o they_o have_v be_v absent_a one_o from_o another_o with_o what_o joy_n with_o what_o congratulation_n yea_o with_o what_o embracement_n do_v they_o meet_v and_o entertain_v each_o the_o other_o how_o do_v they_o unite_v their_o force_n as_o joab_n and_o abishai_n not_o only_o against_o the_o common_a adversary_n but_o each_o for_o other_o personal_a vindication_n and_o defence_n mutual_o all_o that_o i_o will_v say_v to_o the_o answerer_n for_o a_o conclusion_n of_o this_o instance_n 10.37_o luk._n 10.37_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d examine_v 4._o the_o pretend_a opposition_n between_o dr._n ames_n and_o mr._n forbes_n examine_v another_o pretend_a opposition_n be_v between_o dr._n ames_n &_o mr._n f._n in_o three_o thing_n 1._o touch_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n in_o cause_n ecclesiastical_a 2._o touch_v adoption_n go_v before_o justification_n 3._o touch_v the_o active_a obedience_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o point_n of_o justification_n in_o the_o first_o of_o these_o he_o join_v mr._n parker_n with_o dr._n a._n in_o opposition_n to_o mr._n f._n but_o he_o shall_v have_v show_v whether_o mr._n f._n deny_v all_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n in_o those_o case_n or_o only_o some_o and_o what_o that_o authority_n be_v which_o he_o deny_v they_o that_o the_o reader_n may_v have_v see_v the_o question_n right_o state_v and_o then_o we_o shall_v have_v be_v able_a to_o make_v a_o more_o punctual_a answer_n thereunto_o then_o now_o we_o can_v 2._o what_o ever_o difference_n of_o judgement_n be_v between_o d._n a._n and_o mr._n f._n in_o the_o 2._o other_o point_n it_o be_v evident_a to_o those_o who_o know_v they_o that_o there_o be_v much_o unfeigned_a love_n between_o they_o accompany_v with_o a_o reverend_n and_o high_a esteem_n each_o of_o the_o other_o mutual_o express_v upon_o all_o fit_a occasion_n and_o so_o much_o shall_v serve_v for_o answer_v to_o his_o three_o pretend_a answer_n the_o vanity_n where_o of_o that_o i_o may_v use_v his_o own_o word_n will_v appear_v to_o the_o intelligent_a reader_n by_o what_o have_v be_v reply_v i_o proceed_v now_o to_o the_o four_o pretend_v answer_v to_o the_o four_o ans_fw-fr concern_v eminent_a error_n and_o offence_n which_o may_v be_v in_o eminent_a person_n just_a cause_n of_o oppose_v and_o refuse_v they_o &c._n &c._n be_v it_o so_o but_o first_o let_v it_o be_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v so_o in_o these_o person_n reply_v wherein_o the_o answerer_n be_v to_o prove_v 3_o thing_n 1._o that_o the_o thing_n charge_v upon_o these_o person_n be_v offence_n and_o error_n 2._o that_o they_o be_v eminent_a one_o 3._o that_o they_o be_v just_a cause_n of_o oppose_v and_o refuse_v such_o eminent_a man_n as_o unfit_a for_o his_o congregation_n second_o let_v these_o thing_n be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n for_o all_o man_n be_v apt_a 1_o to_o err_v and_o to_o be_v in_o love_n with_o their_o error_n 2_o to_o be_v harsh_a and_o unadvised_a in_o their_o judgement_n of_o other_o first_o man_n be_v apt_a to_o err_v &_o to_o be_v in_o love_n with_o their_o error_n 1._o chameron_n of_o popish_a praejudices_fw-la cap._n 1._o the_o cause_n of_o which_o mischief_n be_v the_o perverseness_n of_o their_o passion_n which_o oftentimes_o so_o overheate_v &_o distemper_v the_o heart_n that_o out_o of_o it_o as_o it_o be_v exhale_v thick_a and_o black_a vapour_n upon_o the_o understanding_n they_o either_o disturb_v our_o judgement_n or_o altogether_o dull_a our_o apprehension_n in_o which_o respect_n a_o heart_n chafe_v with_o passion_n leave_v we_o in_o a_o worse_a case_n than_o pierce_a smoke_n do_v the_o eye_n which_o bereave_v we_o of_o our_o bodily_a sight_n for_o they_o see_v nothing_o can_v not_o be_v delude_v by_o lie_a apparition_n but_o by_o these_o though_o the_o light_n of_o the_o understanding_n be_v dim_v yea_o extinguish_v yet_o there_o remain_v a_o presumptuous_a conceit_n of_o our_o own_o clear_a sight_n and_o real_a comprehension_n of_o the_o truth_n whence_o it_o be_v that_o man_n compass_v about_o with_o thick_a darkness_n confident_o imagine_v that_o he_o walk_v in_o the_o sunshine_n and_o he_o be_v strong_o conceit_v that_o he_o have_v then_o fast_o hold_v of_o the_o truth_n when_o he_o hug_v a_o absurd_a ridiculous_a fable_n second_o from_o the_o same_o cause_n it_o be_v that_o man_n be_v harsh_a and_o rash_a in_o their_o censure_n of_o other_o who_o dissent_v from_o those_o tenet_n for_o the_o defence_n whereof_o they_o be_v engage_v and_o as_o man_n that_o look_v through_o a_o colour_a glass_n think_v that_o all_o the_o thing_n they_o see_v through_o it_o be_v of_o the_o same_o colour_n with_o the_o glass_n so_o they_o judge_v of_o man_n opinion_n by_o the_o error_n of_o their_o own_o distemper_a fancy_n cry_v out_o error_n error_n many_o time_n causeless_o 1.23_o 1_o cor._n 1.23_o thus_o the_o panyme_n puff_v up_o with_o a_o conceit_n of_o their_o own_o wisdom_n account_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o christian_n religion_n foolishness_n and_o as_o their_o passion_n increase_v so_o their_o censure_n will_v grow_v more_o harsh_a and_o bitter_a so_o that_o lesser_a error_n shall_v be_v account_v heresy_n and_o small_a infirmity_n eminent_a offence_n and_o truth_n themselves_o shall_v be_v miscall_v dangerour_n error_n vigilant_a hiron_n ad_fw-la ripar_fw-la &_o contra_fw-la vigilant_a hence_o it_o be_v that_o jerom_n hold_v vigilantius_n for_o a_o haeretick_n because_o he_o hold_v it_o unlawful_a to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a and_o to_o worship_v the_o dead_a bone_n and_o relicque_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o praefer_v marriage_n before_o virginity_n three_o to_o prevent_v a_o scandal_n against_o these_o man_n and_o their_o tenet_n let_v the_o reader_n know_v that_o the_o suspicion_n of_o falsity_n be_v a_o calumny_n ordinary_a to_o truth_n yet_o truth_n be_v not_o to_o be_v dislike_v for_o such_o imputation_n under_o which_o it_o be_v often_o hide_v as_o admirable_a beauty_n under_o a_o mask_n or_o as_o a_o solid_a sparkle_a diamond_n under_o some_o discolourment_n but_o as_o
it_o be_v not_o safe_a ullius_fw-la jurare_fw-la in_o verba_fw-la magistri_fw-la to_o rest_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o man_n without_o a_o warrant_n from_o the_o scripture_n second_o compare_v what_o be_v allege_v out_o of_o beza_n himself_o in_o my_o 1._o reason_n in_o this_o section_n with_o this_o passage_n and_o what_o mr_n cartwright_n answer_v to_o some_o part_n of_o this_o in_o the_o same_o section_n &_o the_o reader_n will_v see_v that_o it_o may_v easy_o be_v declare_v that_o this_o sentence_n will_v not_o help_v the_o advocate_n for_o promiscuous_a baptise_v three_o consider_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n as_o beza_n make_v it_o and_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o the_o infant_n for_o who_o baptism_n he_o plead_v be_v of_o such_o as_o we_o may_v rational_o judge_v to_o be_v ingraft_v into_o christ_n and_o elect_v of_o god_n only_o be_v fall_v by_o infirmity_n be_v deliver_v unto_o satan_n that_o godly_a sorrow_n may_v work_v in_o they_o repentance_n but_o what_o be_v this_o for_o the_o justify_n of_o a_o promiscuous_a administration_n of_o baptism_n to_o all_o that_o be_v offer_v in_o such_o a_o place_n as_o amsterdam_n concern_v many_o of_o who_o we_o can_v not_o rational_o have_v any_o such_o persuasion_n four_o the_o four_o thing_n suppose_v by_o beza_n as_o case_n wherein_o he_o dare_v not_o give_v liberty_n of_o baptise_v serve_v to_o discover_v the_o evil_a of_o this_o custom_n whereunto_o that_o writing_n will_v have_v bind_v i_o for_o if_o all_o that_o be_v present_v though_o they_o refuse_v to_o make_v know_v before_o who_o or_o what_o they_o be_v must_v be_v receive_v may_v not_o the_o infant_n of_o many_o who_o case_n be_v desperate_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n who_o be_v not_o only_o apostate_n from_o it_o but_o persecutor_n yea_o even_o the_o child_n of_o jew_n moor_n and_o other_o such_o like_a without_o the_o parent_n consent_v be_v offer_v to_o baptism_n and_o so_o be_v baptize_v which_o be_v to_o profane_v the_o sacrament_n 2._o observe_v how_o timerous_o beza_n express_v himself_o about_o the_o parent_n on_o who_o the_o right_a of_o the_o infant_n to_o baptism_n depend_v in_o this_o case_n whereby_o it_o may_v seem_v that_o he_o be_v not_o full_o clear_a in_o it_o himself_o five_o the_o caution_n and_o proviso_n which_o beza_n give_v to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o baptise_n of_o such_o child_n of_o excommunicate_n as_o he_o there_o speak_v of_o do_v strong_o condemn_v the_o disorder_n of_o that_o place_n where_o the_o father_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v admonish_v public_o of_o his_o sin_n that_o he_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o know_v or_o inquire_v after_o and_o where_o they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o take_v care_n for_o the_o holy_a education_n of_o the_o child_n that_o they_o regard_v not_o by_o who_o it_o be_v present_v nor_o what_o become_v of_o it_o afterward_o 27._o 2._o de_fw-fr consc_fw-fr lib._n 4._o cap._n 27._o second_o dr._n ames_n come_v next_o to_o be_v consider_v and_o a_o passage_n in_o his_o book_n of_o case_n to_o be_v examine_v lest_o some_o ignorant_o other_o wilful_o wrest_v it_o to_o the_o countenance_v of_o this_o disorder_n which_o to_o be_v far_o from_o his_o meaning_n himself_o do_v abundant_o declare_v in_o the_o same_o place_n for_o he_o so_o express_v his_o opinion_n concern_v the_o baptism_n of_o diverse_a sort_n of_o infant_n there_o mention_v as_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o his_o judgement_n be_v against_o promiscuous_a baptise_v all_o that_o be_v bring_v according_a to_o the_o controvert_v custom_n which_o i_o demonstrate_v thus_o resp_n 2_o first_o he_o require_v 2._o thing_n in_o such_o infant_n as_o necessary_a to_o their_o admittance_n 1._o that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n in_o respect_n of_o outward_a profession_n and_o estimation_n at_o least_o in_o one_o of_o the_o parent_n 2._o that_o there_o be_v hope_n that_o they_o shall_v hereafter_o be_v educate_v und_fw-ge instruct_v in_o the_o same_o covenant_n both_o which_o he_o affirm_v upon_o the_o same_o ground_n which_o we_o lay_v in_o the_o first_o reason_n viz_o because_o baptism_n be_v a_o sign_n and_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n but_o how_o can_v they_o be_v esteem_v christian_a parent_n or_o what_o hope_n can_v there_o be_v of_o the_o education_n of_o such_o infant_n in_o the_o covenant_n when_o both_o the_o parent_n &_o surety_n be_v altogether_o unknown_a to_o the_o church_n and_o that_o in_o such_o a_o place_n as_o amsterdam_n where_o be_v such_o a_o confluence_n of_o people_n of_o all_o nation_n and_o sect_n resp_n 3_o second_o he_o affirm_v that_o baptism_n do_v most_o proper_o belong_v to_o those_o infant_n who_o parent_n at_o least_o one_o of_o they_o be_v in_o the_o church_n not_o out_o of_o it_o and_o this_o he_o affirm_v upon_o the_o former_a ground_n viz_o because_o baptism_n be_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n but_o who_o know_v not_o that_o many_o people_n be_v in_o amsterdam_n who_o be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n but_o out_o of_o it_o in_o many_o respect_n yet_o none_o must_v be_v refuse_v that_o be_v present_v to_o baptism_n three_o he_o suppose_v that_o those_o who_o parent_n be_v unknown_a be_v in_o charity_n to_o be_v account_v christian_n when_o there_o be_v not_o just_a cause_n of_o presume_v the_o contrary_a but_o howsoever_o this_o may_v carry_v some_o show_n of_o reason_n with_o it_o in_o such_o place_n where_o all_o the_o inhabitant_n profess_v religion_n and_o be_v join_v to_o some_o church_n yet_o in_o such_o a_o place_n as_o amsterdam_n how_o can_v a_o man_n presume_v otherwise_o then_o the_o contrary_a of_o many_o that_o may_v be_v offer_v to_o baptism_n four_o he_o profess_v that_o a_o difference_n must_v be_v put_v between_o the_o infant_n of_o those_o who_o in_o some_o sort_n by_o profession_n belong_v to_o the_o church_n yet_o do_v open_o break_v the_o covenant_n of_o god_n and_o the_o child_n of_o other_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o their_o admittance_n to_o baptism_n viz_o that_o for_o the_o former_a sort_n what_o be_v require_v by_o the_o covenant_n and_o want_v in_o they_o must_v be_v supply_v by_o other_o and_o for_o this_o he_o give_v two_o reason_n 1._o because_o a_o distinction_n must_v be_v observe_v in_o all_o holy_a thing_n between_o the_o clean_a and_o unclean_a 2._o because_o else_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n can_v be_v preserve_v from_o all_o pollution_n for_o these_o reason_n he_o do_v not_o allow_v the_o baptism_n of_o excommunicate_n unless_o they_o have_v fit_a surety_n to_o undertake_v for_o their_o education_n nor_o of_o bastard_n unless_o their_o parent_n have_v profess_v their_o repentance_n or_o other_o godly_a person_n will_v take_v upon_o they_o the_o care_n of_o their_o education_n nor_o of_o papist_n unless_o they_o be_v present_v by_o fit_a surety_n who_o have_v power_n over_o they_o for_o their_o education_n but_o be_v any_o such_o care_n take_v any_o such_o course_n observe_v about_o the_o admission_n of_o such_o to_o baptism_n in_o amsterdam_n three_o mr._n attersoll_n shall_v shut_v up_o this_o discourse_n of_o time_n 6_o of_o the_o sacram_fw-la of_o bapt._n 2._o book_n ch_n 6_o who_o the_o reader_n may_v suspect_v to_o favour_v this_o custom_n if_o something_o be_v not_o noated_a by_o we_o to_o prevent_v mistake_n now_o howsoever_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v some_o what_o large_a in_o his_o judgement_n this_o way_n and_o to_o yield_v more_o then_o either_o mr._n beza_n or_o dr._n ames_n have_v do_v in_o this_o point_n &_o it_o may_v be_v more_o than_o himself_o will_v have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v full_o understand_v the_o disorder_n against_o which_o we_o testify_v yet_o the_o limitation_n and_o caution_n which_o he_o propound_v do_v discover_v the_o evil_a of_o that_o practice_n concern_v which_o the_o present_a question_n be_v 218_o p._n 218_o for_o 1._o he_o deny_v that_o the_o infant_n of_o turk_n or_o jew_n may_v be_v baptize_v against_o the_o like_n and_o good_a will_n of_o their_o parent_n but_o it_o be_v very_o possible_a and_o probable_a that_o some_o such_o may_v be_v offer_v to_o baptism_n by_o any_o that_o have_v steal_v they_o or_o for_o some_o other_o reason_n for_o aught_o the_o minister_n know_v or_o demand_v in_o that_o place_n 219._o p._n 219._o 2._o in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o child_n of_o impaenitent_a person_n he_o suppose_v two_o thing_n without_o which_o his_o plea_n for_o their_o baptism_n fall_v 1._o that_o they_o be_v so_o bear_v in_o the_o church_n and_o of_o it_o that_o the_o church_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v as_o it_o be_v their_o mother_n 2._o that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n in_o regard_n of_o their_o elder_n of_o who_o they_o discend_v as_o the_o jew_n be_v in_o abraham_n though_o their_o next_o parent_n be_v wicked_a 221._o p._n
his_o former_a practice_n or_o else_o he_o will_v protest_v against_o their_o judgement_n in_o this_o matter_n and_o carry_v it_o to_o the_o classis_fw-la under_o a_o pretence_n that_o they_o be_v insufficient_a or_o partial_a or_o there_o be_v some_o difference_n how_o can_v it_o be_v expect_v to_o be_v otherwise_o if_o he_o resolve_v to_o carry_v matter_n in_o his_o way_n or_o else_o to_o make_v a_o difference_n that_o there_o may_v be_v some_o ground_n for_o appeal_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la as_o to_o a_o high_a judicatory_a pretence_n 6_o sixth_z pretence_n this_o manner_n of_o admit_v those_o that_o be_v bring_v thus_o promiscuous_o be_v approve_v by_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o five_o godly_a and_o learned_a minister_n who_o protest_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n that_o in_o this_o advice_n they_o deal_v sincere_o and_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n desire_v nothing_o more_o than_o to_o further_a my_o call_n ans_fw-fr this_o pretence_n have_v so_o much_o show_v in_o it_o that_o the_o answerer_n himself_o be_v deceive_v by_o it_o and_o encourage_v to_o place_n too_o much_o confidence_n in_o it_o as_o appeareth_z in_o the_o various_a use_n he_o have_v make_v of_o it_o upon_o several_a occasion_n in_o which_o respect_n it_o will_v be_v convenient_a that_o we_o examine_v it_o very_o particular_o which_o that_o i_o may_v do_v we_o will_v draw_v the_o strength_n of_o it_o into_o four_o head_n which_o we_o will_v express_v in_o so_o many_o objection_n and_o subnect_v their_o several_a answer_n ob._n 1_o this_o custom_n be_v approve_v of_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o five_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n ans_fw-fr 1_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a that_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n approve_v of_o a_o thing_n unless_o the_o ground_n whereupon_o they_o do_v it_o be_v delare_v and_o approve_v to_o be_v sufficient_a tertullian_n be_v a_o learned_a man_n yet_o jerom_n tax_v he_o for_o a_o error_n about_o monogamy_n lazaro_n hieron_n in_o tit._n cap._n 1_o aug_n de_fw-fr civit._fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 21._o cap._n 17._o hieron_n in_o zep_n 3._o aug_n epist_n 28._o chriso_v hom_o 3._o de_fw-la lazaro_n or_o the_o unlawfullnes_n of_o second_o marriage_n origen_n be_v a_o learned_a man_n yet_o augustine_n accuse_v he_o of_o a_o error_n about_o the_o salvation_n of_o the_o devil_n at_o last_o hierom_n be_v a_o learned_a man_n yet_o he_o err_v in_o hold_v the_o merit_n of_o the_o minister_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o the_o make_n of_o the_o sacrament_n augustine_n be_v a_o learned_a man_n yet_o he_o err_v about_o the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o baptism_n to_o salvation_n and_o chrysostom_n be_v a_o learned_a mâ—â—_n yet_o he_o err_v when_o he_o hold_v that_o where_o spiritual_a book_n be_v the_o devil_n have_v no_o power_n these_o 5_o ancient_n all_o man_n will_v confess_v be_v not_o inferior_a in_o learning_n or_o prudence_n to_o the_o five_o dutch_a minister_n who_o subscribe_v that_o writing_n yet_o they_o err_v 2._o the_o answerer_n himself_o pretend_v the_o same_o cause_n for_o his_o not_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o more_o than_o five_o as_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n as_o these_o 3._o sect_n 9_o ans_fw-fr 3._o in_o a_o question_n that_o concern_v i_o will_v such_o a_o plea_n hold_v in_o that_o case_n then_o much_o more_o in_o this_o ob._n 2_o though_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n may_v err_v apart_o yet_o when_o so_o many_o consult_v together_o and_o conclude_v upon_o a_o point_n their_o judgement_n joint_o declare_v shall_v be_v rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n be_v to_o be_v receive_v with_o all_o due_a reverence_n though_o they_o several_o &_o apart_o express_v it_o much_o more_o when_o they_o join_v together_o in_o consultation_n do_v consent_n and_o agree_v in_o one_o conclusion_n provide_v that_o the_o truth_n do_v not_o suffer_v praejudice_n by_o man_n authority_n in_o which_o respect_n it_o be_v learned_o and_o prudent_o say_v by_o augustine_n 48._o aug_n epist_n 48._o hear_v that_o which_o the_o lord_n say_v not_o that_o which_o donatus_n say_v rogatus_n say_v vincentius_n say_v hilarius_n say_v ambrose_n say_v augustine_n say_v yet_o these_o be_v six_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n but_o hear_v what_o the_o lord_n say_v 1.12_o 1_o cor_n 1.12_o for_o to_o do_v otherwise_o what_o be_v it_o but_o to_o say_v i_o be_o of_o paul_n and_o i_o of_o apollo_n and_o i_o of_o cephas_n which_o the_o scripture_n condemn_v 2._o why_o may_v not_o five_o together_o err_v as_o well_o as_o five_o asunder_o 1._o suppose_v tertullian_n and_o lactantius_n and_o victorinus_n and_o ireneus_fw-la 36._o hieron_n in_o ezek._n lib._n 11._o cap._n 36._o and_o apollinarius_n five_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n who_o hold_v the_o error_n of_o the_o millenaryes_n as_o jerom_n report_v have_v subscribe_v a_o writing_n to_o assure_v jerom_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o opinion_n will_v he_o have_v think_v himself_o bind_v to_o rest_n in_o that_o their_o opinion_n upon_o their_o naked_a affirmation_n which_o he_o judge_v to_o be_v their_o error_n 2._o suppose_v that_o those_o five_o learned_a and_o prudent_a man_n dr._n ames_n mr._n forbes_n mr._n hooker_n mr._n balmford_n mr._n roe_n have_v send_v such_o a_o writing_n of_o their_o private_a judgement_n against_o this_o disorder_n of_o promiscuous_a baptise_v to_o this_o answerer_n will_v he_o think_v himself_o bind_v to_o rest_n therein_o if_o not_o why_o do_v he_o require_v this_o of_o i_o but_o they_o protest_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n that_o they_o deal_v sincere_o ob._n 3._o ob._n and_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n ans_fw-fr 7.25_o 2._o sam._n 7.25_o nathan_n deal_v sincere_o &_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n as_o he_o think_v and_o will_v have_v protest_v if_o it_o have_v be_v require_v when_o he_o advise_v david_n about_o build_v a_o temple_n to_o the_o lord_n &_o encourage_v he_o thereunto_o yet_o he_o err_v peter_n think_v he_o deal_v sincere_o and_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n and_o before_o paul_n have_v convince_v he_o of_o his_o evil_n it_o may_v be_v will_v have_v protest_v it_o also_o in_o his_o temporize_a first_o with_o the_o gentile_n 2.11.12_o gal._n 2.11.12_o and_o then_o with_o those_o of_o the_o circumcision_n yet_o he_o err_v those_o famous_a light_n speak_v of_o before_o think_v they_o deal_v sincere_o and_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n in_o those_o opinion_n which_o they_o defend_v yet_o they_o err_v they_o desire_v nothing_o more_o than_o to_o further_o the_o promotion_n of_o mr._n d._n ob._n 4._o ob._n to_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o english_a church_n ans_fw-fr 1._o i_o do_v easy_o believe_v that_o the_o dutch_a minister_n do_v real_o desire_v my_o settle_n there_o and_o that_o when_o they_o go_v to_o the_o answerer_n their_o purpose_n be_v to_o further_a it_o and_o i_o be_o persuade_v of_o they_o that_o when_o they_o write_v to_o i_o they_o do_v it_o upon_o some_o encourage_v intimation_n suggest_v by_o the_o answerer_n that_o a_o letter_n from_o they_o signify_v the_o concurrence_n and_o consent_n of_o their_o judgement_n with_o he_o in_o this_o point_n will_v prevail_v to_o draw_v i_o to_o yield_v to_o it_o i_o be_o also_o confident_a they_o be_v the_o more_o apt_a to_o approve_v such_o course_n of_o accommodation_n as_o they_o see_v will_v best_o please_v he_o upon_o a_o conceit_n that_o the_o answerer_n himself_o do_v much_o desire_v i_o which_o also_o themselves_o do_v intimate_v in_o the_o wright_v subscribe_v by_o they_o so_o that_o their_o miscarrage_n in_o this_o buisenes_n be_v not_o from_o any_o disaffection_n to_o i_o or_o desire_v of_o hinder_v my_o settle_n there_o but_o from_o too_o much_o credulity_n and_o tractablenes_n to_o complye_o with_o the_o answerer_n in_o his_o way_n the_o issue_n of_o who_o purpose_n they_o foresee_v not_o these_o thing_n be_v premise_v i_o proceed_v to_o show_v the_o reason_n why_o i_o can_v not_o rest_v in_o their_o conusaile_n in_o this_o particular_a 2._o two_o thing_n especial_o hinder_v i_o from_o rest_v therein_o 1._o because_o the_o same_o thing_n which_o they_o propound_v only_o as_o their_o private_a judgement_n the_o answer_v press_v as_o a_o law_n to_o i_o wherein_o i_o must_v rest_v that_o be_v conform_v thereunto_o and_o this_o my_o rest_v therein_o must_v be_v the_o condition_n whereupon_o he_o will_v consent_v to_o my_o settle_v there_o else_o not_o so_o that_o his_o finger_n be_v heavyer_n upon_o i_o in_o this_o than_o their_o loin_n &_o he_o assume_v a_o power_n to_o himself_o of_o prescribe_v rule_n to_o i_o which_o the_o government_n of_o these_o churce_n have_v not_o give_v he_o yea_o more_o than_o be_v give_v to_o the_o class_n themselves_o by_o any_o synod_n or_o to_o any_o synod_n by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o enjoin_v this_o thing_n to_o a_o minister_n as_o a_o condition_n of_o
thither_o this_o passage_n i_o will_v have_v pass_v by_o reply_v if_o his_o frequent_a mention_v my_o name_n in_o the_o 25._o and_o 26._o section_n have_v not_o compel_v i_o to_o examine_v it_o the_o case_n wherein_o they_o complain_v that_o he_o have_v nedles_o wave_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o elder_n be_v three_o 1._o concern_v a_o order_n that_o shall_v have_v be_v make_v for_o my_o accommodation_n in_o the_o question_n about_o promiscuous_a administer_a baptism_n to_o all_o that_o be_v bring_v in_o that_o place_n sect_n 25._o 2._o about_o be_v a_o agreement_n among_o the_o elder_n that_o a_o convenient_a time_n shall_v be_v give_v i_o to_o go_v on_o in_o assist_v the_o answerer_n to_o see_v if_o in_o that_o time_n i_o can_v obtain_v that_o this_o question_n may_v be_v lay_v aside_o and_o inform_v myself_o more_o full_o concern_v the_o order_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o dutch_a church_n whereunto_o my_o conformity_n be_v require_v sect_n 26._o 3._o concern_v his_o refusal_n to_o let_v mr._n weld_n preach_v though_o he_o confess_v he_o have_v nothing_o against_o he_o without_o consent_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la etc._n etc._n ibid._n whereby_o it_o appear_v that_o they_o do_v not_o complain_v of_o his_o seek_n advise_v of_o neighbour_n minister_v simple_o and_o absolute_o but_o 1._o in_o certain_a case_n there_o mention_v and_o therefore_o they_o do_v not_o in_o their_o writing_n divide_v the_o one_o from_o the_o other_o into_o several_a section_n for_o that_o be_v his_o own_o contrivement_n but_o relate_v all_o together_o in_o one_o entire_a sentence_n 2._o the_o case_n produce_v by_o they_o be_v such_o wherein_o the_o matter_n may_v have_v be_v determine_v and_o conclude_v by_o the_o eldership_n without_o violation_n of_o any_o order_n establish_v in_o the_o government_n of_o those_o church_n 3._o the_o matter_n be_v so_o carry_v by_o he_o in_o this_o needle_n appeal_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la that_o their_o agreement_n be_v nullify_v these_o thing_n be_v premise_v the_o insufficiency_n of_o his_o five_o answer_n in_o the_o 24._o section_n will_v be_v obvious_a to_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n in_o particular_n thus_o for_o the_o first_o his_o thinck_n that_o the_o elder_n err_v in_o their_o judgement_n in_o such_o case_n as_o these_o in_o question_n be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o a_o appeal_n as_o may_v appear_v in_o reason_n for_o so_o no_o cause_n shall_v be_v end_v in_o their_o consistory_n though_o the_o elder_n unanimous_o consent_v in_o their_o judgement_n if_o the_o pastor_n differ_v from_o they_o out_o of_o a_o obstinate_a will_n without_o give_v sufficient_a reason_n of_o his_o dissent_v and_o then_o to_o what_o end_n be_v the_o meeting_n of_o the_o eldership_n whereas_o he_o call_v upon_o they_o to_o prove_v it_o by_o scripture_n they_o may_v with_o better_a warrant_n require_v he_o to_o prove_v by_o scripture_n the_o lawfullnes_n of_o such_o appeal_n in_o such_o case_n for_o which_o they_o find_v no_o word_n command_v or_o approve_v they_o for_o the_o second_o unless_o he_o can_v prove_v those_o agreement_n among_o the_o elder_n to_o be_v sin_n and_o unfruitful_a work_n of_o darkness_n he_o will_v be_v find_v guilty_a of_o a_o double_a sin_n 1._o that_o he_o oppose_v the_o elder_n without_o just_a cause_n 2._o that_o he_o misapply_v scripture_n to_o justifye_v his_o unjust_a opposition_n of_o they_o for_o the_o three_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o as_o council_n may_v err_v so_o may_v consistorye_n much_o more_o easy_o and_o that_o all_o obedience_n aught_v to_o be_v in_o the_o lord_n but_o with_o all_o that_o the_o protester_n against_o they_o aught_o to_o declare_v the_o equity_n of_o their_o so_o do_v from_o scripture_n or_o good_a reason_n which_o have_v not_o be_v do_v by_o the_o answerer_n for_o the_o four_o the_o pretend_v reason_n whereby_o the_o answerer_n will_v justifye_v this_o act_n take_v from_o the_o very_a foundation_n of_o government_n and_o institution_n of_o diverse_a judicatories_n to_o take_v away_o disagreement_n strife_n controversy_n or_o different_a plead_n among_o man_n will_v not_o help_v he_o in_o the_o case_n question_v unless_o he_o can_v prove_v 1._o that_o the_o class_n be_v of_o the_o same_o use_n by_o divine_a institution_n for_o the_o help_n of_o pastor_n which_o have_v the_o assistance_n of_o their_o eldership_n 17.8_o deut._n 1.12_o with_o cap._n 17.8_o whereof_o that_o judicatorye_n be_v for_o the_o help_n of_o moses_n who_o be_v not_o able_a alone_o to_o bear_v the_o cumbrance_n and_o strife_n of_o the_o people_n and_o of_o the_o king_n of_o israel_n afterward_o which_o they_o deny_v 2._o that_o the_o cause_n in_o question_n which_o he_o carry_v from_o the_o consistory_n to_o the_o classis_fw-la 9.10_o 2._o chron._n 19_o 8_o 9.10_o be_v of_o the_o same_o nature_n with_o those_o cause_n between_o blood_n and_o blood_n between_o law_n and_o commandment_n statute_n and_o judgement_n which_o be_v defer_v to_o the_o levite_n the_o priest_n and_o chief_a of_o the_o father_n of_o israel_n that_o man_n may_v be_v warn_v by_o they_o that_o they_o trespass_n not_o against_o the_o lord_n this_o also_o they_o deny_v and_o may_v just_o accuse_v he_o of_o misapply_v the_o scripture_n noat_v by_o he_o in_o the_o margin_n 5._o to_o the_o five_o it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o elder_n in_o government_n have_v not_o be_v overthrow_v by_o his_o bring_v any_o matter_n unlawful_o unto_o the_o classis_fw-la if_o it_o be_v the_o manner_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o such_o case_n to_o remit_v the_o matter_n to_o the_o consistory_n again_o but_o what_o one_o instance_n can_v he_o produce_v in_o the_o particular_n whereof_o they_o complain_v or_o in_o any_o other_o case_n bring_v by_o he_o to_o they_o wherein_o the_o matter_n be_v remit_v to_o the_o consistory_n why_o so_o it_o be_v not_o because_o the_o buiseness_n be_v so_o weighty_a that_o it_o have_v be_v agree_v in_o the_o synod_n that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v proceed_v in_o without_o advice_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la nor_o because_o they_o concern_v many_o church_n and_o therefore_o require_v the_o consent_n of_o all_o what_o then_o it_o be_v because_o the_o elder_n can_v not_o satisfy_v he_o nor_o he_o they_o as_o he_o intimate_v in_o the_o answer_n before_o but_o why_o be_v he_o not_o satisfy_v because_o he_o will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v unless_o the_o matter_n may_v be_v carry_v according_a to_o his_o will_n for_o no_o sufficient_a reason_n be_v give_v by_o he_o against_o it_o at_o that_o time_n so_o then_o if_o he_o will_v end_v a_o buisenes_n in_o the_o consistory_n there_o it_o shall_v be_v end_v but_o if_o he_o see_v that_o it_o will_v be_v carry_v against_o his_o mind_n there_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v end_v there_o but_o be_v take_v out_o of_o their_o hand_n and_o carry_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la where_o he_o know_v how_o to_o bring_v his_o purpose_n about_o thus_o he_o have_v two_o string_n to_o his_o bow_n but_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n be_v not_o the_o power_n of_o the_o elder_n in_o government_n overthrow_v thereby_o 25._o sect._n 25._o in_o the_o 25._o sect._n they_o speak_v of_o a_o agreement_n among_o the_o elder_n to_o make_v a_o order_n that_o those_o who_o be_v not_o member_n of_o that_o church_n shall_v make_v themselves_o know_v to_o i_o compl_n compl_n that_o i_o may_v be_v satisfy_v concern_v they_o before_o they_o shall_v present_v their_o child_n to_o baptism_n in_o public_a which_o they_o say_v will_v have_v end_v that_o difference_n between_o we_o but_o he_o protest_v against_o it_o if_o this_o complaint_n be_v just_a be_v it_o not_o a_o grievance_n let_v we_o weigh_v his_o four_o answer_n to_o it_o ans_fw-fr 1._o he_o say_v there_o be_v no_o order_n make_v therefore_o they_o speak_v untrue_a and_o they_o know_v not_o what_o reply_n neither_o do_v they_o say_v a_o order_n be_v make_v but_o it_o be_v agree_v that_o one_o shall_v be_v make_v what_o untruth_n be_v in_o this_o if_o any_o be_v it_o not_o in_o his_o accusation_n 2._o he_o say_v there_o be_v no_o evidence_n in_o their_o church_n book_n that_o either_o the_o elder_n have_v so_o agree_v or_o that_o he_o have_v protest_v against_o it_o nor_o do_v they_o say_v it_o be_v record_v in_o the_o church_n book_n for_o how_o can_v it_o be_v record_v when_o it_o be_v never_o make_v and_o that_o by_o his_o hinder_v the_o make_n of_o it_o 3._o he_o say_v if_o such_o a_o order_n have_v be_v peremptory_o resolve_v upon_o there_o have_v be_v just_a reason_n for_o he_o to_o have_v protest_v against_o it_o see_v the_o consistory_n have_v no_o power_n etc._n etc._n 121._o travers_n de_fw-fr discipl_n ecelcs_n p._n 121._o but_o herein_o he_o oppose_v mr._n traverse_n who_o in_o his_o elaborate_a treatise_n de_fw-fr disciplinâ_fw-la ecclesiasticâ_fw-la speak_v of_o the_o
deny_v the_o authority_n and_o due_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n to_o be_v lawful_a and_o necessary_a but_o they_o complain_v of_o a_o undue_a power_n and_o authority_n ascribe_v to_o class_n by_o the_o answerer_n and_o they_o declare_v by_o instance_n what_o that_o power_n be_v which_o they_o account_v undue_a now_o unless_o he_o can_v prove_v that_o power_n to_o be_v due_a which_o they_o have_v affirm_v to_o be_v undue_a he_o have_v not_o answer_v their_o complaint_n which_o be_v that_o under_o pretence_n of_o ask_v and_o take_v their_o advice_n he_o subject_v the_o church_n under_o that_o power_n which_o they_o affirm_v to_o be_v undue_a that_o he_o do_v so_o subject_v they_o have_v be_v show_v and_o that_o he_o pretend_v only_o to_o ask_v and_o take_v their_o advice_n his_o own_o expression_n both_o by_o speech_n at_o other_o time_n and_o in_o diverse_a passage_n of_o this_o book_n declare_v sufficient_o 4._o his_o four_o answer_n be_v to_o their_o say_n that_o the_o church_n never_o acknowledge_v any_o such_o power_n to_o be_v due_a whereunto_o he_o answer_v 1._o by_o show_v the_o agreement_n between_o the_o ancient_a english_a inhabitant_n there_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o dutch_a minister_n which_o be_v to_o have_v such_o a_o english_a church_n as_o shall_v accord_v with_o the_o dutch_a in_o the_o same_o order_n of_o discipline_n and_o government_n 2._o by_o declare_v that_o since_o his_o first_o come_n but_o he_o say_v not_o how_o long_o after_o his_o first_o come_n he_o be_v admit_v to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la 3._o by_o show_v the_o manner_n of_o their_o receive_a member_n viz_o by_o profession_n of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o they_o and_o by_o solemn_a promise_n covenant_v to_o submit_v unto_o the_o discipline_n of_o this_o church_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n but_o what_o be_v in_o all_o these_o passage_n to_o prove_v their_o submission_n to_o any_o undue_a power_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la nay_o when_o they_o profess_v to_o submit_v unto_o the_o discipline_n of_o this_o church_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n do_v they_o not_o therein_o implicit_o profess_v against_o submission_n to_o any_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o as_o little_a do_v the_o practice_n of_o any_o member_n since_o in_o resort_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la upon_o occasion_n of_o ask_v their_o judgement_n in_o matter_n controvert_v among_o they_o establish_z any_o undue_a power_n of_o they_o and_o to_o what_o end_n shall_v those_o that_o join_v with_o his_o church_n leave_v their_o separation_n come_v with_o a_o protest_n against_o the_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la when_o they_o know_v not_o of_o their_o subjection_n thereunto_o no_o more_o be_v require_v of_o they_o in_o their_o covenant_n at_o their_o first_o admission_n than_o submission_n to_o the_o discipline_n of_o this_o church_n according_a to_o the_o role_n of_o christ_n as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o add_v of_o their_o choose_n rather_o to_o continue_v as_o they_o be_v then_o to_o be_v of_o the_o english_a synod_n this_o do_v not_o testify_v their_o acknowledgement_n of_o their_o subjection_n to_o any_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la but_o how_o be_v they_o under_o the_o classis_fw-la when_o not_o long_o before_o that_o the_o answerer_n himself_o as_o mr._n forbes_n assure_v i_o labour_v to_o set_v up_o a_o english_a classis_fw-la or_o synod_n which_o not_o succeed_v in_o his_o endeavour_n at_o that_o time_n he_o never_o after_o attempt_v to_o procure_v nor_o will_v join_v with_o be_v after_o set_v up_o at_o the_o procurement_n of_o other_o as_o for_o st_n offw_o report_n of_o geneva_n we_o have_v already_o show_v some_o difference_n between_o the_o association_n of_o church_n in_o geneva_n and_o the_o class_n in_o these_o country_n but_o be_v that_o as_o it_o may_v it_o make_v nothing_o for_o the_o warrant_n of_o any_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la 5._o his_o five_o answer_n be_v to_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o complaint_n when_o they_o say_v that_o the_o power_n which_o they_o complain_v of_o be_v such_o as_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o in_o any_o place_n give_v to_o such_o a_o company_n of_o minister_n the_o fault_n that_o he_o find_v herewith_o be_v that_o they_o do_v not_o allege_v any_o one_o place_n of_o scripture_n to_o condemn_v the_o same_o as_o though_o negative_a argument_n from_o scripture_n be_v not_o sufficient_a proof_n of_o the_o unlawfullnes_n of_o a_o thing_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n by_o the_o help_n of_o st._n offw_o book_n he_o accommodate_v the_o 15._o of_o the_o acts._n concern_v the_o church_n at_o antioch_n seek_v help_n of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n in_o a_o difficult_a question_n to_o the_o present_a question_n but_o what_o be_v that_o to_o the_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la whereof_o they_o complain_v in_o his_o next_o answer_n it_o may_v be_v he_o will_v give_v i_o occasion_n of_o show_v that_o that_o very_a place_n of_o scripture_n make_v strong_o against_o that_o undue_a power_n which_o he_o ascribe_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o the_o particular_n complain_v of_o and_o such_o like_a 6._o his_o six_o answer_n be_v to_o that_o part_n of_o the_o complaint_n when_o they_o say_v that_o the_o undue_a authority_n whereof_o they_o complain_v be_v such_o as_o do_v not_o become_v any_o except_o the_o apostle_n that_o can_v not_o err_v to_o have_v this_o he_o say_v be_v false_a and_o absurd_a and_o upon_o this_o occasion_n he_o reprove_v i_o for_o a_o like_a speech_n in_o my_o letter_n to_o the_o classis_fw-la touch_v my_o consent_n require_v to_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o five_o minister_n namely_o that_o such_o a_o subjection_n be_v great_a than_o may_v be_v yield_v unto_o any_o council_n whether_o of_o class_n or_o synod_n etc._n etc._n that_o thereby_o the_o wrighting_n and_o decree_n of_o man_n be_v make_v infallible_a and_o equal_a with_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o be_v intolerable_a reply_n it_o be_v true_a that_o i_o so_o write_v and_o that_o which_o i_o write_v herein_o be_v true_a let_v we_o now_o see_v what_o he_o answer_v he_o say_v what_o wise_a man_n be_v there_o that_o see_v not_o the_o strange_a folly_n and_o vanity_n of_o such_o assertion_n as_o these_o junius_n be_v a_o wise_a man_n and_o yet_o he_o see_v no_o folly_n nor_o vanity_n nor_o strangeness_n in_o a_o like_a assertion_n and_o so_o be_v bogerman_n who_o relate_v it_o roundly_o and_o without_o haesitancy_n from_o he_o in_o these_o word_n 225._o bogerm_v annot_n in_o hug_n grot_n ex_fw-la juni_fw-la p._n 225._o servus_n mandatum_fw-la domini_fw-la svi_fw-la referens_fw-la ad_fw-la conservum_fw-la suum_fw-la obligat_fw-la illius_fw-la conscientiam_fw-la instrumentali_fw-la ministerio_fw-la svo_fw-la at_o cognitioni_fw-la suae_fw-la aut_fw-la foro_fw-la svo_fw-la minimè_fw-la obligat_fw-la hoc_fw-la nunquam_fw-la dominus_fw-la quisquam_fw-la daturus_fw-la nunquam_fw-la fervus_fw-la fidelis_fw-la assumpturus_fw-la i_o e._n a_o servant_n relate_v the_o command_n of_o his_o lord_n to_o his_o fellow_n servant_n bind_v his_o conscience_n by_o his_o instrumental_a ministry_n that_o be_v as_o i_o conceive_v it_o so_o far_o as_o he_o report_v the_o lord_n mind_n and_o command_v but_o do_v not_o bind_v he_o to_o his_o own_o outward_a jurisdiction_n this_o no_o lord_n will_v ever_o give_v nor_o any_o faithful_a servant_n assume_v but_o do_v not_o they_o assume_v this_o and_o more_o when_o they_o will_v bind_v i_o to_o rest_v in_o that_o writing_n and_o to_o be_v accountable_a to_o they_o for_o my_o conformity_n to_o it_o not_o have_v convince_v or_o instruct_v i_o that_o it_o be_v the_o will_n of_o our_o lord_n that_o i_o shall_v do_v so_o also_o dr._n whittaker_n be_v a_o wise_a man_n 2._o whitt_n de_fw-fr council_n quest_n 3._o chap._n 2._o &_o yet_o he_o see_v no_o folly_n nor_o vanity_n nor_o strangeness_n in_o a_o like_a assertion_n for_o speak_v of_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n concern_v matter_n to_o be_v believe_v or_o to_o be_v do_v he_o show_v that_o to_o define_v a_o thing_n signify_v either_o 1._o to_o declare_v what_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v &_o do_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n because_o the_o scripture_n teach_v that_o it_o aught_v to_o be_v so_o believe_v and_o do_v and_o that_o therefore_o they_o that_o believe_v or_o do_v otherwise_o be_v in_o a_o error_n 2._o or_o else_o it_o signifi_v to_o appoint_v and_o prescribe_v by_o their_o own_o authority_n what_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v or_o do_v so_o as_o man_n must_v rest_v in_o it_o whatsoever_o reason_n they_o have_v against_o it_o and_o may_v not_o believe_v or_o do_v otherwise_o the_o first_o he_o allow_v and_o so_o do_v i_o and_o desire_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o understand_v some_o rule_n from_o the_o word_n warrant_v i_o to_o do_v that_o whereunto_o they_o in_o
that_o writing_n will_v have_v bind_v i_o the_o second_o way_n of_o define_v he_o deny_v to_o belong_v to_o any_o council_n and_o affirm_v that_o it_o appertain_v only_o to_o god_n and_o to_o christ_n and_o to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n here_o i_o may_v be_v large_a in_o allege_v wrighter_n of_o the_o most_o eminent_a note_n affirm_v the_o like_a and_o the_o same_o for_o substance_n with_o i_o in_o this_o matter_n and_o many_o of_o they_o express_v their_o judgement_n in_o the_o same_o word_n but_o these_o shall_v suffice_v till_o a_o further_a provocation_n afterward_o the_o answerer_n demand_v whether_o no_o truth_n be_v utter_v or_o describe_v by_o man_n in_o our_o time_n whereunto_o the_o consent_n of_o man_n may_v be_v require_v but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o matter_n in_o question_n have_v they_o declare_v it_o to_o be_v a_o truth_n i_o be_v ready_a to_o have_v testify_v my_o consent_n with_o they_o in_o it_o but_o that_o they_o do_v not_o nor_o have_v he_o do_v it_o in_o all_o this_o tedious_a discourse_n so_o that_o this_o be_v to_o argue_v ex_fw-la non_fw-la concessis_fw-la from_o that_o which_o be_v not_o grant_v or_o will_v he_o say_v that_o because_o every_o truth_n utter_v by_o man_n must_v be_v consent_v to_o therefore_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o consent_v to_o every_o thing_n which_o man_n shall_v utter_v and_o to_o as_o little_a purpose_n be_v that_o which_o he_o allege_v concern_v the_o subscription_n which_o the_o reform_a church_n require_v to_o their_o confession_n of_o faith_n whereas_o the_o matter_n in_o question_n be_v not_o comprehend_v in_o any_o article_n of_o those_o confession_n and_o out_o of_o those_o very_a confession_n we_o do_v dispute_v against_o it_o but_o be_v not_o the_o answerer_n drive_v far_o and_o put_v hard_a to_o his_o shift_n when_o to_o make_v some_o show_n of_o answer_n he_o demand_v how_o i_o can_v subscribe_v my_o name_n to_o my_o own_o wright_v send_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la to_o show_v my_o consent_n to_o it_o and_o whether_o i_o do_v thereby_o make_v myself_o a_o apostle_n or_o my_o writing_n equal_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o let_v pass_v his_o improper_a call_n it_o my_o consent_n to_o my_o own_o writing_n my_o subscription_n to_o it_o be_v not_o in_o reference_n to_o myself_o but_o to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n whereunto_o it_o be_v consonant_a and_o it_o testyfy_v unto_o they_o my_o persuasion_n that_o it_o agree_v therewith_o but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o subscription_n which_o they_o require_v to_o injunction_n and_o prescription_n which_o be_v not_o declare_v to_o agree_v with_o the_o scripture_n either_o in_o that_o writing_n which_o they_o send_v or_o in_o any_o conference_n they_o have_v with_o i_o though_o i_o tell_v they_o that_o unicum_fw-la argumentum_fw-la etc._n etc._n any_o one_o argument_n from_o the_o word_n shall_v prevail_v with_o i_o and_o that_o beside_o other_o time_n once_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n and_o other_o but_o will_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o a_o man_n upon_o persuasion_n of_o the_o truth_n may_v subscribe_v to_o other_o man_n wrighting_n or_o to_o his_o own_o that_o therefore_o he_o may_v subscribe_v to_o those_o wrighting_n concern_v the_o truth_n whereof_o he_o be_v not_o persuade_v while_o he_o be_v wright_v these_o thing_n a_o secret_a monitour_n from_o within_o suggest_v to_o he_o that_o all_o humane_a judicatorye_n be_v subject_a to_o error_n and_o that_o when_o that_o error_n be_v show_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n it_o aught_v to_o be_v correct_v but_o if_o the_o question_n be_v who_o may_v judge_v of_o this_o error_n and_o show_v it_o they_o here_o his_o answer_n be_v defective_a he_o say_v one_o synod_n often_o reform_v that_o which_o have_v be_v decree_v by_o another_o this_o show_v indeed_o that_o synod_n be_v subject_a to_o error_n and_o do_v they_o not_o therefore_o err_v because_o they_o fetch_v not_o their_o definition_n and_o prescription_n from_o the_o scripture_n and_o be_v it_o not_o the_o best_a way_n for_o rectify_v they_o to_o reduce_v they_o to_o that_o rule_n and_o how_o shall_v this_o be_v do_v but_o by_o the_o course_n which_o those_o noble_a beraean_o take_v by_o compare_v they_o with_o 17.11_o act._n 17.11_o and_o examine_v they_o by_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o who_o do_v this_o belong_v indeed_o the_o public_a ministerial_a power_n of_o judge_v in_o such_o case_n belong_v to_o synod_n or_o council_n themselves_o but_o the_o private_a judgement_n which_o divine_v call_v the_o judgement_n of_o practical_a discretion_n belong_v to_o every_o christian_a so_o that_o no_o man_n be_v bind_v absolute_o to_o submit_v to_o or_o to_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o man_n or_o council_n but_o to_o try_v they_o by_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o consent_v with_o they_o no_o further_o than_o they_o appear_v to_o consent_v with_o that_o rule_n this_o the_o scripture_n abundant_o declare_v 23.8_o mat._n 24.4_o 1._o thess_n 5.21_o 1._o joh._n 4.1_o gal._n 1.8_o mat._n 23.8_o when_o they_o command_v all_o christian_n to_o beware_v of_o seducer_n to_o try_v all_o thing_n to_o try_v the_o spirit_n also_o when_o they_o be_v call_v upon_o to_o receive_v the_o word_n of_o christ_n only_o as_o their_o only_a master_n and_o to_o deny_v man_n the_o use_n of_o their_o private_a judgement_n in_o thing_n teach_v they_o by_o their_o pastor_n or_o enjoin_v and_o praescribe_v by_o class_n or_o synod_n what_o be_v it_o else_o but_o to_o deprive_v man_n of_o his_o reason_n &_o man_n understanding_n of_o its_o end_n which_o be_v to_o search_v &_o find_v out_o the_o truth_n yea_o to_o deprive_v christian_n of_o the_o fruit_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o supernatural_a illumination_n and_o of_o the_o spirit_n of_o revelation_n 12._o 1_o cor_n 14.20_o eph_n 4.14_o euseb_n li._n 5._o c_o 12._o or_o at_o least_o to_o make_v those_o of_o ripe_a year_n to_o be_v always_o as_o child_n in_o understanding_n this_o be_v to_o revive_v the_o haeresy_n of_o apelles_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o people_n aught_v not_o accurate_o to_o weigh_v and_o examine_v what_o be_v propound_v to_o they_o gal_n hieron_n in_o proem_n ad_fw-la gal_n from_o which_o jerom_o be_v so_o far_o that_o he_o much_o commend_v marcelia_n a_o good_a woman_n in_o rome_n for_o this_o that_o she_o wherever_o she_o meet_v he_o will_v be_v put_v good_a question_n to_o he_o and_o receive_v his_o answer_n not_o as_o pythagoras_n his_o scholar_n do_v his_o saying_n or_o as_o the_o answerer_n will_v have_v have_v i_o to_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o five_o minister_n but_o she_o examine_v and_o weigh_v all_o thing_n so_o that_o he_o think_v himself_o to_o have_v non_fw-la tam_fw-la discipulam_fw-la quam_fw-la judicem_fw-la not_o so_o much_o a_o scholar_n as_o a_o judge_n and_o as_o he_o allow_v a_o good_a woman_n this_o liberty_n in_o try_v the_o word_n of_o a_o learned_a and_o godly_a teather_n so_o hylary_a give_v the_o same_o liberty_n to_o all_o private_a christian_n in_o examine_v the_o decree_n of_o counsel_n arrian_n hylar_n the_o synod_n adv_o arrian_n si_fw-mi contraria_fw-la inuicem_fw-la senserint_fw-la concilia_fw-la debemus_fw-la quasi_fw-la judices_fw-la probare_fw-la meliora_fw-la if_o council_n or_o synod_n differ_v in_o their_o determination_n we_o aught_v as_o judge_n of_o our_o own_o action_n to_o approve_v of_o that_o which_o be_v better_o whereas_o he_o add_v yet_o do_v not_o this_o take_v away_o their_o authority_n for_o the_o judge_a and_o decide_v of_o controversy_n for_o by_o such_o reason_n they_o may_v take_v away_o all_o government_n and_o bring_v in_o confusion_n i_o grant_v that_o it_o take_v away_o no_o due_a subordinate_a ministerial_a authority_n from_o they_o but_o a_o supreme_a praetorian_a or_o magisterial_a authority_n as_o that_o be_v when_o they_o bound_v man_n to_o rest_n in_o their_o determination_n without_o convince_a they_o that_o they_o be_v according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o god_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o so_o much_o as_o declare_v to_o they_o sufficient_a ground_n out_o of_o the_o word_n for_o their_o so_o do_v and_o so_o to_o do_v be_v not_o to_o take_v away_o all_o or_o any_o government_n but_o tyranny_n nor_o to_o bring_v in_o confusion_n but_o to_o prevent_v it_o and_o to_o establish_v order_n whereas_o he_o add_v that_o by_o these_o and_o such_o like_a injurious_a speech_n they_o do_v exceed_o gratifye_v many_o sort_n of_o libertine_n arrian_n socinian_o and_o other_o heretic_n etc._n etc._n what_o injury_n be_v it_o to_o witness_v against_o undue_a power_n which_o be_v a_o testify_v against_o injury_n and_o how_o can_v the_o libertine_n arrian_n etc._n etc._n be_v gratify_v by_o plead_v against_o that_o undue_a power_n which_o be_v exercise_v in_o uphold_v that_o disorder_n of_o promiscuous_a baptise_v which_o serve_v to_o strengthen_v
initio_fw-la vitiosum_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la tractu_fw-la temporis_fw-la convalescere_fw-la much_o more_o will_v it_o hold_v in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o a_o case_n as_o that_o unwarrantable_a custom_n of_o promiscuous_a baptise_v 12._o sect._n 12._o which_o i_o have_v prove_v to_o be_v unlawful_a in_o sect._n 12._o second_o see_v nothing_o have_v be_v say_v by_o the_o answerer_n in_o defence_n of_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o answer_n to_o their_o complaint_n of_o their_o excercise_v a_o undue_a power_n in_o this_o particular_a let_v we_o now_o see_v if_o he_o answer_v sufficient_o in_o his_o own_o defence_n wherein_o we_o will_v with_o god_n help_n examine_v what_o he_o say_v in_o answer_n 1._o to_o the_o general_a charge_n 2._o to_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o first_o the_o general_a charge_n be_v that_o he_o have_v give_v they_o this_o undue_a power_n hereunto_o he_o pretend_v to_o make_v five_o answer_n 1._o he_o say_v it_o be_v untrue_a he_o only_o say_v so_o but_o do_v not_o show_v it_o to_o be_v untrue_a by_o declare_v that_o either_o the_o scripture_n or_o the_o nationall_n synod_n or_o the_o church_n or_o good_a reason_n have_v give_v it_o they_o and_o so_o seem_v to_o be_v content_a that_o the_o suspicion_n of_o usurp_a may_v lie_v upon_o the_o whole_a classis_fw-la rather_o than_o he_o shall_v be_v suspect_v to_o have_v give_v it_o they_o but_o he_o will_v not_o so_o evade_v if_o what_o be_v reply_v to_o the_o same_o answer_n in_o the_o forego_n section_n be_v consider_v and_o apply_v to_o this_o also_o 2._o in_o his_o second_o answer_n he_o seem_v so_o to_o deny_v his_o give_v they_o this_o undue_a power_n as_o withal_o secret_o to_o confess_v that_o he_o give_v they_o counsel_n to_o use_v this_o power_n which_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v to_o be_v due_a that_o it_o be_v undue_a have_v be_v prove_v already_o and_o that_o it_o be_v so_o he_o have_v not_o behave_v himself_o as_o a_o pastor_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n in_o counsel_v they_o to_o use_v a_o undue_a power_n over_o his_o church_n need_v no_o proof_n at_o all_o the_o thing_n do_v be_v sufficient_a evidence_n against_o he_o 3._o his_o three_o answer_n be_v a_o mere_a retortion_n of_o the_o complaint_n upon_o the_o complainants_n and_o a_o recrimination_n of_o they_o for_o allow_v the_o consistory_n to_o make_v order_n &_o law_n &_o thereupon_o he_o demand_v can_v this_o power_n of_o make_v law_n and_o order_n be_v lawful_a and_o due_a in_o a_o consistory_n and_o yet_o a_o undue_a power_n in_o the_o classis_fw-la be_v they_o not_o condemn_v of_o themselves_o for_o answer_v hereunto_o it_o must_v be_v understand_v 1_o that_o order_n and_o law_n be_v ill_o confound_v by_o the_o answerer_n they_o may_v make_v order_n who_o have_v no_o power_n of_o make_v law_n so_o junius_n distinguish_v they_o fit_o praelatorum_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sive_fw-la mandata_fw-la dare_n non_fw-la praecepta_fw-la sed_fw-la ordinationes_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ecclesiastical_a governor_n may_v give_v order_n not_o law_n not_o command_n not_o precept_n else_o where_o he_o say_v the_o father_n call_v they_o more_o fit_o canon_n because_o a_o canon_n serve_v to_o direct_v agentem_fw-la volùntariè_fw-la one_o that_o act_v voluntary_o whereas_o a_o law_n necessitate_v etiam_fw-la cogit_fw-la in_o voluntarium_fw-la compel_v a_o man_n against_o his_o will_n chamelet_n also_o express_v himself_o acute_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n 368._o de_fw-fr ecclesiâ_fw-la p._n 367._o 368._o say_v that_o the_o determination_n of_o church_n be_v more_o fit_o call_v admonition_n and_o exhortation_n than_o law_n and_o that_o when_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o word_n they_o be_v admonition_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o church_n but_o law_n in_o respect_n of_o god_n only_o to_o wit_n because_o the_o church_n commend_v that_o which_o god_n have_v command_v and_o that_o which_o the_o church_n so_o commend_v be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n 2._o that_o all_o mistake_n may_v be_v prevent_v &_o the_o two_o extreme_n avoid_v of_o tyranny_n by_o ascribe_v too_o much_o power_n to_o the_o church_n and_o of_o dissolute_a libertinism_n and_o anabaptism_n by_o deny_v its_o due_a power_n in_o this_o particular_a we_o will_v declare_v what_o authority_n the_o church_n have_v about_o law_n and_o order_n by_o distinguish_v between_o law_n already_o make_v 4.21_o luke_n 10.16_o mat_n 18.17_o 1_o cor._n 4.21_o and_o law_n to_o be_v make_v in_o the_o first_o we_o grant_v that_o church_n governor_n have_v great_a authority_n and_o power_n to_o wit_n of_o provide_v that_o man_n yield_v due_a obedience_n to_o all_o god_n law_n and_o ordinance_n which_o they_o be_v to_o commend_v and_o declare_v to_o the_o church_n and_o to_o exact_v their_o obedience_n thereunto_o and_o indeed_o this_o be_v the_o very_a end_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n rom._n 1.5_o and_o 15.18_o so_o that_o herein_o they_o have_v more_o power_n than_o of_o admonish_v and_o exhort_v and_o reprove_v only_o they_o have_v the_o power_n of_o censure_v and_o thereby_o of_o compel_v the_o several_a member_n to_o their_o duty_n and_o of_o see_v that_o all_o thing_n be_v do_v in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n decent_o and_o in_o order_n 14.40_o 1_o cor._n 14.40_o in_o this_o sense_n i_o conceive_v the_o order_n to_o be_v make_v in_o the_o consistory_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v the_o thing_n thereby_o order_v being_n no_o other_o than_o that_o rule_n of_o have_v all_o holy_a administration_n perform_v decent_o and_o in_o order_n require_v and_o be_v so_o understand_v it_o do_v not_o at_o all_o patronize_v that_o undue_a power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la 1._o because_o the_o church_n have_v that_o power_n in_o her_o own_o matter_n which_o the_o classis_fw-la have_v not_o 2._o because_o this_o be_v but_o a_o order_n for_o my_o accommodation_n in_o my_o voluntary_a obedience_n of_o the_o word_n warrant_v by_o the_o rule_n but_o the_o contrary_a make_v by_o they_o be_v a_o law_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o a_o evil_a custom_n not_o warrant_v by_o the_o word_n and_o to_o compel_v i_o against_o my_o will_n to_o the_o observance_n of_o it_o as_o for_o the_o second_o the_o thing_n about_o which_o law_n be_v make_v be_v either_o necessary_a or_o indifferent_a thing_n necessary_a be_v thing_n command_v or_o forbid_v in_o the_o scripture_n and_o they_o be_v necessary_a either_o absolute_o or_o in_o some_o considerable_a respect_n thing_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o godliness_n be_v so_o constitute_v in_o the_o scripture_n that_o no_o place_n be_v leave_v for_o the_o imposition_n of_o any_o new_a law_n giver_n about_o thing_n necessary_a in_o some_o considerable_a respect_n churchgovernour_n have_v power_n to_o give_v order_n as_o do_v the_o synod_n at_o jerusalem_n touch_v those_o thing_n which_o they_o call_v necessary_a act._n 15.28_o viz_o necessary_a during_o the_o time_n of_o the_o offence_n of_o the_o jew_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v avoid_v hereunto_o also_o serve_v that_o rule_n let_v all_o thing_n be_v do_v decent_o and_o in_o order_n cor._n 14.40_o but_o the_o rule_n of_o that_o decency_n must_v be_v not_o the_o will_n and_o pleasure_n of_o man_n but_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n scripture_n or_o warrantable_a custom_n for_o so_o it_o be_v in_o the_o instance_n give_v in_o that_o chapter_n as_o for_o man_n to_o pray_v with_o long_a hair_n &_o woman_n bareheaded_a in_o those_o eastern_a country_n and_o for_o woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o congregation_n and_o for_o many_o man_n to_o speak_v at_o once_o thing_n indifferent_a be_v such_o as_o be_v neither_o command_v nor_o forbid_v in_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v various_o permit_v or_o prohibit_v according_a to_o various_a circumstance_n and_o they_o be_v either_o improper_o or_o proper_o so_o call_v thing_n improper_o call_v indifferent_a be_v thing_n not_o necessary_a but_o only_o expedient_a in_o some_o respect_n in_o such_o case_n churchgovernour_n have_v power_n to_o declare_v the_o decency_n and_o expediency_n of_o they_o yea_o and_o to_o advise_v and_o persuade_v the_o practice_n thereof_o but_o not_o by_o stand_v law_n to_o bind_v the_o people_n thereunto_o as_o the_o apostle_n give_v his_o judgement_n 1._o cor._n 7.25.40_o &_o advise_v concern_v single_a life_n in_o time_n of_o the_o church_n distress_n yea_o and_o persuade_v to_o it_o for_o avoid_v trouble_n in_o the_o flesh_n vers_fw-la 26.28_o but_o will_v not_o bind_v they_o to_o it_o neither_o in_o point_n of_o conscience_n nor_o of_o outward_a practice_n as_o have_v no_o commandment_n from_o the_o lord_n vers_n 25._o and_o say_v that_o such_o a_o commandment_n have_v be_v a_o snare_n vers_n 35._o and_o herein_o the_o power_n of_o churchgovernour_n fall_v short_a of_o the_o authority_n of_o civil_a magistrate_n who_o may_v in_o civil_a matter_n make_v stand_v
and_o bind_v law_n for_o any_o thing_n expedient_a to_o the_o common_a wealth_n whereunto_o subject_n be_v bind_v ready_o to_o submit_v 1._o pet._n 2.13_o thing_n proper_o call_v indifferent_a i_o do_v not_o find_v in_o scripture_n that_o ever_o churchgovernour_n do_v advise_v &_o persuade_v they_o much_o less_o charge_n &_o command_v they_o lest_o of_o all_o make_v stand_v &_o bind_v law_n to_o determine_v they_o nor_o do_v that_o place_n in_o 1._o cor._n 14.40_o give_v they_o any_o such_o power_n nor_o have_v the_o apostle_n themselves_o receive_v any_o such_o authority_n from_o christ_n as_o appear_v in_o the_o commission_n give_v they_o which_o be_v only_o to_o teach_v man_n to_o observe_v and_o do_v what_o christ_n shall_v command_v they_o mat._n 28.20_o their_o office_n be_v only_o ministerial_a &_o economical_a christ_n reserve_v to_o himself_o the_o sovereign_a lawgive_a power_n as_o his_o prerogative_n for_o application_n of_o the_o premise_n to_o the_o case_n in_o question_n i_o demand_v whether_o this_o custom_n be_v thus_o impose_v as_o a_o thing_n proper_o indifferent_a or_o as_o expedient_a or_o as_o necessary_a in_o some_o considerable_a respect_n or_o as_o absolute_o necessary_a if_o it_o be_v proper_o indifferent_a why_o do_v they_o by_o command_n make_v the_o practice_n of_o it_o necessary_a if_o it_o be_v expedient_a let_v they_o show_v the_o expediency_n of_o it_o &_o leave_v man_n free_a if_o it_o be_v necessary_a in_o those_o considerable_a respect_n let_v it_o appear_v that_o the_o contrary_a practice_n will_v be_v so_o offensive_a or_o disorderly_a that_o for_o the_o avoid_n of_o that_o offence_n or_o disorder_n a_o minister_n be_v bind_v to_o do_v it_o if_o it_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a to_o godliness_n let_v the_o scripture_n be_v show_v that_o command_v that_o practice_n or_o forbid_v the_o contrary_a his_o four_o answer_n be_v not_o worth_a a_o reply_n his_o five_o answer_n make_v against_o himself_o for_o if_o they_o leave_v man_n at_o liberty_n about_o thing_n indifferent_a etc._n etc._n wherein_o they_o be_v to_o be_v approve_v as_o walk_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n why_o do_v they_o bind_v man_n by_o unaequall_a condition_n to_o this_o custom_n which_o they_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v sufficient_o declare_v to_o be_v command_v by_o christ_n or_o to_o be_v warrant_v by_o the_o rule_n let_v we_o now_o see_v what_o he_o say_v to_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o justness_n of_o their_o lay_v the_o blame_n of_o this_o miscarriage_n upon_o he_o rather_o than_o upon_o the_o classis_fw-la first_o they_o say_v that_o some_o of_o the_o dutch_a minister_n themselves_o be_v willing_a to_o cast_v off_o some_o of_o their_o custom_n if_o the_o vastness_n of_o their_o church_n do_v not_o force_v they_o thereunto_o hereunto_o he_o give_v two_o answer_n 1._o that_o thing_n simple_o unlawful_a be_v as_o well_o to_o be_v cast_v off_o in_o a_o great_a church_n as_o in_o a_o small_a reply_n true_a it_o be_v a_o duty_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v in_o the_o one_o as_o in_o the_o other_o yet_o it_o may_v more_o easy_o be_v do_v in_o the_o small_a church_n and_o therefore_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o small_a church_n be_v the_o great_a if_o they_o do_v not_o cast_v off_o such_o a_o unwarrantable_a custom_n the_o vastness_n of_o their_o church_n do_v only_o excuse_v they_o a_o tanto_fw-it not_o a_o toto_fw-la 2._o that_o in_o the_o small_a church_n in_o the_o village_n the_o same_o order_n be_v observe_v but._n 1._o it_o have_v not_o be_v express_o require_v of_o any_o of_o the_o minister_n of_o those_o church_n as_o a_o condition_n of_o their_o admittance_n as_o it_o be_v of_o i_o that_o they_o shall_v rest_v in_o such_o a_o writing_n which_o bind_v they_o to_o baptize_v all_o that_o be_v bring_v 2._o it_o may_v be_v question_v whether_o all_o the_o minister_n in_o those_o small_a village_n do_v so_o promiscuous_o administer_v baptism_n as_o they_o do_v in_o amsterdam_n see_v such_o different_a sort_n of_o people_n be_v not_o in_o those_o village_n as_o in_o that_o city_n second_o they_o say_v that_o one_o of_o the_o minister_n say_v to_o the_o answerer_n in_o the_o classis_fw-la upon_o occasion_n of_o his_o complain_n of_o my_o not_o conform_v to_o all_o their_o order_n why_o you_o yourself_o do_v not_o conform_v to_o all_o our_o order_n hereunto_o he_o pretend_v to_o give_v five_o answer_n i_o say_v pretend_v for_o the_o first_o answer_n be_v no_o answer_n but_o only_o a_o question_n who_o tell_v this_o his_o second_o answer_n be_v that_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la be_v not_o to_o be_v collect_v by_o the_o speech_n of_o one_o neither_o do_v they_o say_v that_o all_o of_o they_o be_v of_o that_o mind_n but_o that_o one_o of_o they_o say_v so_o whereof_z it_o seem_v the_o rest_n show_v no_o dislike_n and_o so_o seem_v to_o consent_v to_o it_o and_o more_o than_o one_o of_o they_o have_v be_v hear_v to_o say_v as_o much_o as_o the_o complainants_n affirm_v his_o three_o 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