others might by the readyng therof obtayne vnderstanding c. The Scripture is the power of God to saluatioÌ„ by it we knowe God and Christ by it we knowe our selues by it we are taught our duety toward our neyghbour by it we learn to obei our prince by it we know the true Prophet froÌ„ the false the Scriptures ar to be preferred before al the writings of men it is the touche stone wherby we ought to examine Ad Reginaâ— derecta fide the doctrines of men Cyril sayth it is necessary for vs that we folow the holy Scriptures not to swarue in anye thyng that is commaunded in them S. Ambrose vpon the. 1. Epistle to the Corinthes 4. chap. saith what soeuer is not receiued froÌ„ the handes of the Apostles is full of wickednes Cyprian in Sermon â— de lapsis And how dare they ordeyne and decree any thing without Christ whose hope and fayth vertue and glorye is whollye in hym Origine vpon Ezechiell Homili 7. lette vs folowe no man and if wee will folowe any wee haue Christe set foorth to vs to followe The actes of the Apostles are set forth vnto vs we know the doings of the Prophetes by the holy volumes that is a sounde exaÌ„ple to folow Theophilactus vpoÌ„ the Epistle to the Romains the last chap. sayth They whiche bryng any thyng beside the determinations and doctrine of the Apostles they bryng in offences heresies and dissensions Ireneus aduersus Valentini similiuÌ„ scripta lib. 2. cap. 56 â–ª Leane to the holy Scriptures which is the sure and vndoubted truth it is a sure stone wherwith to build when ye leaue this cleaue to any other doctrines c. S. Augustine in his prologue of his 3. boke of the trinitie sayth Obey not my writinges as thou wilte the Canonicall scriptures for what so euer thou shalt finde in theÌ„ that thou beleuest not the same beleue without douting but in myne if Authority of the wrytingâ— of the fathers thou finde any thing wherin thou art not persuaded thorowly beleue it not assuredly Againe in his 112. Epistle which he writeth to Paulm he speaketh to the like end IteÌ„ in his 2. boke of Baptisme against the Donatists 3. chap. he saith you alwayes alledge to vs the letters of CypriaÌ„ the sayinges of CypriaÌ„ why take you authoritie of CypriaÌ„ for your Scisme refuse his exaÌ„ple to trouble the church who is he that doth not well know that the Canonicall scriptures as wel of the olde as of the new Testament are conteined within limites which ar certain that the same is to be preferred to the writings of al the Bishops yâ— haue ben hereto fore so that we may not in any thing doute or dispute of it to wit whether yâ— all yâ— therin is be true or no but it is lawfull to repreheÌ„d the writings of the Bishops which were writen before or which wer writen after the coÌ„firmation of the Canonical scriptures either by word c. Moreouer Origene vpoÌ„ the Prophet Ieremie in his 1. Howelie sayth we must needes call to witnesse the holy Scriptures for without theÌ„ no maÌ„ ought to credite our sayings or writings S. Hierom vpon s Mathew fayth That which is spokeÌ„ without the authoritie of the scriptures euen as it is spoken so may it be reiected conteÌ„ned vpon Ieremie 9. chap. sayth The error of fathers mothers of auÌ„cesters ought not to be folowed but the authoritie of the scriptures the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t of God whiche he teacheth vs c. And within fewe lynes after he sayth Assuredly thorowe ignorauÌ„ce of the law men shall receiue Antichrist for Christ c. S. CypriaÌ„ to Cecil in his 3. boke of his Epistles 3. Epistle saith yf you do that which I coÌ„mauÌ„de you I will not cal you my seruauÌ„tes but my frends And also that Christ ought onely to be herd the father hath borne witnes from heauen saying This is my welbeloued sonne in whom I am well pleased heare him wherfore if it be so the Christ onely ought to be herd then ought we not to looke what any man before vs hath thought good to be done but that which Christ who is Christ and not custom is to be followed before all hath done for we are not bouÌ„d to folow the custome of meÌ„ but the truth of God for so much as God sayth by his Prophet Esay in ye. 29. chap They honor me in vain teaching the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ts doctrines of meÌ„ And again in the Gospel Mathew 15. you reiect the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„t of God to establishe your own traditions And therfore deare brother if anye of our predecessors eyther through ignoraunce or simplicitye haue not obserued that which the Lord hath taught vs to do by his example or doctrine that same may be refused for the symplenes therof may through the mercies of the Lord be pardoned him c. And shortly after he sayth if we be the elders ministers of God Christ I fynd not that we ought to follow any but God Christ for somuch as he saith in the Gospel of Iohn chap. 8. I am the light of the world he that followeth me shal not walke in darcknes but shal haue the Diuiâ—â—â—um institut lib. 6. cap. 8 light of life LactaÌ„ti ' Firmian ' in his 6. boke of his godly institutioÌ„s 8. chap. sayth we ought not to follow meÌ„ but god The canons decrees of the Popes in the. 9. distinct ca. Noli cap. Ego cap. Negare dist 24 1. quest ca. Non affermam ' say thus Men must dwell vpon the holy Scriptures not vpon the sayings of men how holy soeuer they be c. S. Chrisostome vpoÌ„ S. Iohn sayth in the end of the. 16. homelie That meÌ„ of occupatioÌ„ do seeke striue to be excellent in their occupacions Gredi desire of corporall things and carelesnesse of spirituall things but the christiaÌ„ can not render reasoÌ„ of his religion if these handy occupations were not knowen it were but losse of money but the coÌ„tempt of the christiaÌ„ religioÌ„ carieth with it destruction of the soule yet we tranayle in so great miserye madnes that we bestow in theÌ„ all our studie care but the things which are most necessary for vs and are most sure fortes of our saluation we esteme not at all It is it that letteth the heathens froÌ„ acknowledging their errour and causeth theÌ„ to scoffe at vs for albeit they are grouÌ„ded onely vpoÌ„ lyes to do al that which they do to defend the ignominie of their doctrine we which serue the truth dare not once opeÌ„ our mouthes to defend that which is ours why should they not condemne our great imbecillitie haue vs in supicion to be crafty disceitful why should they not speake euil of Christ as of a lyar who by his fraud should haue abused the simplicitie of the multitude we are
principall matters that therin are handled or entreated of ⧠The second Dialogue intituled the waiting for the Councell or the Newtralles Of the reasōs vvhich cause many to desire vvait for a Councel and of the trouble that the difference vvhich is in Christendome in matters of Religion doth bryng to simple and ignoraunt consciences Daniel Timothe D. THou doost well remēber where we left as touchyng those that wayt for a Councell T. Yea in dede D. Will these men tary to beleue in God to serue him and to enquire of his will vntill the tyme that the Councell hath ben holden and that it hath determined what order of lyfe we should folowe T. It semeth that these mē take their foundation of that which thou hast said that if they should serue God truly it were first requisite to be well instructed and assured of his will D. Wherfore do they not then forthwith and withall diligence enquire therof why do they then tary for a Councell T. Bycause they say that in so great diuersitie of opinions as at this present day is in Christendome in matters of Religion they know not whiche to folow in surety For they see that some teache after one sort the others after an other that ther is often tymes as great contrarietie of opinions as betwene white and blacke and betwene fire and water That whiche one aloweth an other disaloweth that whiche one holdeth for Christiā doctrine and for true seruice of God an other condempneth it as heresie or els as superstition hypocrisie Idolatrie and Apostasie And besides this ther are of both sides personnages of great apparance great vnderstanding and great authoritie accordyng to the iudgement of the worlde notwithstandyng the multitude is farre greater of the one side then of the other men heare their discourses men read their writtinges bookes there are goodly reasons of both partes which euery of them endeuoureth to proue and confirme by the holy Scriptures and by all meanes possible In this cause what shal a poore man do whiche feareth to offend God and hath a good desire to serue him accordyng to his wil but he may not wel attain to the knowlege therof bicause that which the one saieth is the wil of God the other sayth it is not the will of God ¶ Hovve that the difference that is in Christendome in matters of Religion should not stay men from the diligent enquirie of the vvyl of GOD but shoulde rather prouoke them thereunto T. I Confesse that these differences which are in Christendome engender great trouble in the poore consciences of many but that ought not at all to let them to enquire by all meanes possible of the will of God and to employe thē selues with al spede possible to serue him but they should the more earnestly be moued and prouoked to do it to ridde them selues with as much speede as they myght out of suche troubles For why least they tary in it if they haue any feare of God in what trouble shall they lyue and what quyetnes maye they euer haue in theyr consciences I for my parte shoulde thincke that I were in hell if I shoulde longe lyue in suche estate without hauynge some thynge certayne and resolued in my mynde whereunto I myght assuredlye staye T. For thys they require a Councell for they thincke there wil bee there men of greater iudgement then they are by whose meanes the matter shall be so debated and examined that there shall bee a generall and a sure determination throughe the which euery man may be out of scrupule and doubte and may know wherunto to trust D. It semeth vnto me that their hope is very slender if they haue no better hope then this I maye not deny but their desire is good we all ought to desire the same if there were any hope to se it come to passe that with spede for the soner it were that better bycause it is much more daūgerous to delay or defer the medicyning of the soule thē of the body for if the medicine of the body come not in tyme to hym that is sicke that sicke person is not in daūger but onely of his bodely life but if the medicine of y◠soule be to long deferred ther is daūger of eternall death wherfore I do greatly feare that manye doo perish in tarying for those medicines T. There is much to be feared and also to be doubted in this matter ¶ VVhat profite the Churche of God may receaue of Councelles and of theyr issue D. THe Sinodes lawfull Coūcels is one of the best remedies that mē may haue to take away cōtrouersies in religiō it is the remedi wherunto in like cases that Apostles their true successors al that aūciēt church haue oftētimes had their recourse for albeit that the Coūcels haue no authority nor power to giue vnto the churche any newe doctrine nor yet to forge ani new articles of faith but only to hold maintain y◠doctrine which is reueled by the holy Scriptures yet notwithstāding they serue to great purpose in so much that they be as publike witnesses vnto it to succor the infirmitie of the simple weake also such as shall come after vs by the confessiō which is made of the same by thē by the publike testificatiō y◠there is declared by the perpetual cōsent of the Church of the doctrine of the Prophetes Apostles But although the Councels be ordeyned to this end that the aūciēts haue had more rule of thē selues better meanes much more meete for such a purpose then we haue at this presēt yet notwithstāding they could neuer obtaine that in their Coūcels which they desired And such vntowardnes was there that they did alway not onely not apease the differences abolish scismes heresies which troubled the Church but oftētimes euē there right many new did spring haue ben afterward frō tyme to tyme encreased if it were nedefull to proue it by exāples it were easy to do but we will not now enter into such matter I will cōtent me for this time to alledge onely touching this matter that testimonie the Gregory Nazianzen which was Master to S. Hierom did giue writting to Procopius of the Coūcels of his tyme whiche were nothyng so corrupted as ar those of our time if I must nedes sayth he write the truth I haue determined to refuse al the Coūcels of Bishops For I haue foūd the issue of no one Synode good or rather that they haue more encreased the euil then quenched it Here is the iudgemēt of Nazianzene touching this matter Which semeth to me somethynge harde for it can not bee denyed that some of the auncient Councels haue greatly profited vnto Christianitie notwithstandynge that the peruersitie of the wicked hath alwaye hindered that the frute and issue hath not ben such as was to be desired yet notwithstandyng Nazianzene hath not gyuen iudgement of the Councels
to erre S. Paule and S. Iohn Iame. i. Act. 3. 14 Gal. 1. 2. Dauid and Ely Esay and Moyses and all the Prophets and Apostles were men like vnto others subiecte to the same infirmities that others were and yet S. Paule doth so authorise his doctrine as hath bene alreadye sayd that he condempneth the Aungels of heauen if they doe gayne saye it Wherfore they conclude that euen so as the Prophets and Apostles were men and yet notwithstanding all their writinges are without errour euen so fareth it with the fathers in all their determinations and Councels D. They conclude veri euel and speak wholy against the sentence of S. Augustin who is as good a christiaÌ„ as any one For they attribute as much to the bokes ordinances of men as to the Canonicall bookes whereupon we oughte to consider that albeit the Prophets and Apostles were men yet notwithstanding there is greate difference betwene them and those that came after them For we are certayne that they spake by the spirit of God and that God hath not suffered any errour to be mingled in their writinges because that he woulde they shoulde be geuen and left to vs for most certayne rules wherby to examine all other doctrines There is yet an other matter besyde this which is well worthye to be noted To wit that if any of those by whom it hath pleased God to be serued in this woorke haue chaunced to committe any faulte in their office the spirite of God hath not hidden it but hath manifestly declared it to the end the men shoulde not so be moued with the authoritie of suche personages that they shoulde followe lies in the steed of the truth and vice in the steede of vertue We haue an euident example hereof in Nathan the Prophet who without hauing demaunded i. Sam. 7 at the mouth of the Lord sayd of his owne onely authoritie and proper councell to Dauid that he shoulde builde the Lordes house and temple wherfore he was rebuked and corrected immediatly the next nyght following by the Lorde who commaunded him to declare the contrarye to Dauid We may also alledge the example of the Prophet which was sent into Beth-el and was kylled by the Lyon i. kings 17 Iob in Iere. xx i. Kings xix Ionas 2 Gal. 2 and that of Iob and of Ieremie who cursed the day of their byrth and also that of Hely and of Ionas so many faults of S. Peter and especially that for the whiche S. Paule reproued him I leaue vntouched a number of others such lyke Now it standeth not so at this present with vs ne yet with the auncient doctors that were before vs. For seing that God woulde that thys rule shoulde be obserued in hys church it coulde not otherwise be but that it must be appoynted by a number of bookes certayne or ells there woulde neuer haue beene any ende Seing then that the Lorde hath once appoynted and allowed thys rule we maye compare vnto it neyther booke nor Councell what so euer they bee For if since the time of the Apostles there hath neuer beene man of what holines or knowledge so euer he were that hath so perfectelye and wel written and taughte as the Prophettes and Apostles didde without faylinge in anye one thinge â–ª wee maye not thincke that it is otherwise in their Councelles and Sinodall statutes then it is in their bookes For those that write such bookes be the very self and same men by whom the Councells are celebrated and holden vnto whom their aduises and opinions are spoken euen as they are couched in their bookes Wherefore they may as wel erre in the one as in the other we must also knowe that the most holy and perfecte men in deede haue not all the giftes of God neyther continuallye nor in all ages ne yet in all things no not those giftes in dede which are geuen vnto them but that GOD doth reueale manye thynges to others and at other tymes ¶ VVhat rule S. Augustine geueth concerning Councells and the vvritinges of the auncient Fathers T. SEing it is so it is very nedeful that we haue some certayne rule wherwith to guide vs in these matters D. I doe thinke that we can not doe better nor follow a better rule when any of these things come in question then to followe the maner of proceding that S. Augustine did vse with Maximine Bishop of the Arrians which would arme himself with the Councell of Arimine againste the conclusion that was made and confyrmed by the holy fathers touching the diuinitie of our Lorde Iesus Christ in the Councell of Nice by the authoritie of the truth as it is sayd and hy the truth of authoritie Tom. 6. Lib. 3. I may not now sayeth he alledge the Councell of Nice nor thou the Councel of Arimine as for a preiudice neyther am I bounde to the authorite of the one nor thou to the authoritie of the other Let vs debate the one matter with the other the one cause with the other the one reason with the other by the authoritye of the Scriptures not by proper and particular witnesse of euery man but by indifferent to vs both Which thing he hath also written in other places as concerning To Paul Epist 112 To Hic 29 Epist the authoritie of the Canonicall bookes agreeth very well with this I will not saith he that thou embrace myne authoritie to the end thou shouldest thinke it necessarie to beleue any thing because that I haue spokeÌ„ it but that thou beleue the Canonicall Scriptures And againe I confesse to thy charitie that I haue learned to beare that honour and reuerence to the onely bookes of the Scriptures which are called Canonicall that I doe beleue assuredlye that no one of the authors of them hath in any one iote of his writinges erred And iâ—â—â—diatlye after he sayth But I read yâ— others in such 〈…〉 what excellencie of holines and doctrine so euer be 〈…〉 I thinke not that which they saye to bee true because that they were of that opinion but because that I am perswaded that that whiche they speake is agreeing to the truth eyther by the Canonicall authors or els by apparaunt reason This is his manner of writing to Saint Hierome And agayne thou seest here howe S. Augustine submitteth the writings of the auncients and the CouÌ„cels to the worde of God and to the determinations therof conteyned in the holy Scriptures and maketh it iudge aboue all T. I do finde the aduise of S. Augustine very good but me thincketh there are other things to be considered in that conference and difference of the auncient Doctors and determinations of the lawfull Councels whereof I woulde gladlye heare the resolution But because that we haue entreated of manye good poyntes touchyng thys matter of Councells it seemeth to me very good for this present hers to make an ende to the end I may haue some little tyme to call to my remembraunce
cause of this blasphemie for S. Peter in his i. epistle 3. chap. cōmaundeth vs to be alwayes readye to render reason to all that shall demaund vs of the fayth hope that we haue And again S. Paul Colo. 3. chap. Pro◠10. b let the word of God dwell plenteously in you but what answere make they to that which are more folish then the very fooles in dede Blessed is euery symple one he that walketh surely But that is the cause of all euills for that that many know not how to alledge aptly the testimonies of the scriptures for in this place we may not vnderstād the symple for the foolyshe and for him that vnderstandeth nothing but for him that is not craftye and melicious For if it shoulde be so vnderstode it should be superfluous to say be ye wyse therefore Math. 10. b as serpentes and symple as doues S. Ambrose vpō the 2. epistle to Tymothe 3. chap. sayeth All scripture geuen by inspiration from God c. It is manifest that all Scripture wherof God hath declared himselfe to be author is profitable For it is geuē to that end that it shoulde profite the ignoraūt reforme the deformed drawing the wicked into al good workes for by profiting a litle and litle in newnesse of lyfe it maketh the mā of God c. The law of the Lord is perfect restoring or conuerting soules the testimonye of the Lord is Collo 3. b Psal 19 Psal 119 faythful and sure it geueth wisedome to the ignoraunt The statutes of the eternall are righteous reioysing the hart the cōmaundement of the Lord is pure and doth lighten the eyes And againe Thy word is alampe or lanterne to my fete a light to my steppes The Prophet Esay in his 8. chap. sayth is there any where a people that asketh not councell of hys God Should men turne frō the liuing to the dead If any man want light let him loke vpon the law the testimonie whether they speake after this meaning The lyght of the Ezech 20. c morning shall not be geuen vnto them Moreouer the Prophet sayth Say to the childrē in the desert walke not in the ordinaunces of your fathers obserue not al their statutes be not defyled with their idoles I am the Lord your God walke in my ordinaunces and kepe my statutes and do thē Eccle. 1 a Itē the fountayne of wisedome is the word of the soueraign Lord God the entre into the same are his eternal cōmaūdements And agayn Search the scriptures for in them you thinke you haue eternall life and they bee they which beare Iohn 5 Iohn 20 g witnes of me And Iesus did many other thinges that are not written in this boke in the presence of his disciples but these things ar writtē to the end that you should beleue that Iesus is the annoynted sonne of God that in so beleuing you may haue life thorow his name The holy scriptures are In what recommendacion God hath his Word full of the lyke sayings The auncient fathers are full of the worthines of the scriptures S. Augustine in his 56. sermon made to the brethren that were in solitude sayth he that maketh none accompt of the reading of the holy scriptures sent from heauen ought not onely to feare that peraduenture he shall not receaue euerlasting rewards but also that he shall not escape the euerlasting punyshmentes for it is so daūgerous vnto vs not to read the deuine precepts that the Prophets with great sorrowe exclame cry out for that cause haue Esay 5. c Ose 4. b 1 Cor 14 my people bene brought into captiuitie because they had no knowledge for he that is ignorant shall be ignorant out of all doubt he that in this world maketh none accompt to seke to know God by the holy Scriptures God wil not vouchsafe to know him in the ioyes euerlasting we ought to be a feard to heare after that the gates shall be shut with the folyshe virgins I know you not I haue none acquaintaunce Math 25 ◠with you you that worke iniquitie depart you frō me what meaneth this I knowe you not I am not acquainted with you how knoweth he not those that he sendeth to the fyre There is neyther of thē spoken without cause for as it hath bene already sayd suche as woulde not in thys world seeke to knowe hym by reading the Scriptures GOD will not acknowledge them at the day of iudgement We ought also not to heare negligently but with attentiue eare fear that which is written in Salomō he that turneth sayth he his eare Prou 18 ◠frō the hearing of the lawe his prayer shal be abhominable wherefore he that will be heard at Gods hand muste fyrste heare God For how woulde he that God shoulde heare him when he doth so dyspyse hym that he maketh none accompte of the readyng of hys commaundementes Saint Hierome in the proeme of his Commentaries vpon Esaye to Eustochius sayth therfore I yelde vnto thee and to hym by thee that whiche I do owe obeyng the commaundement of Iohn 5. f Math. 7 ◠Christ who fayth searche diligently the Scriptures Seeke and you shall finde to the end that it be not sayd to me as it was to the Iewes ye erre not knowyng the Scriptures the power of God the wisedom of God and truly after S. Paul if Christ be the power and wisedom of God he that knoweth not the scriptures the same knoweth not y◠power of God nor his wisedō To be ignoraūt of the Scriptures is not to know Christ c. S. Chrisostome in the Homelie 29. vpon Benefis sayeth There is neyther griefe of body no◠mynde in the nature of man but it may haue medicine of the Scriptures c. These are sayinges of great importance and are true They are no Legend lyes They are confirmed by the word of God whiche is the infallible truth Then if man know not God as he ought to do but by the Scriptures that none can be saued but by the knowledge of God and Christ Thē must it nedes folow that ignoraūce of the Scriptures bryugeth with it damnation I haue alledged here mo sayinges of the fathers then I would haue done nothyng so many in number as I could haue done but bycause the great swarme of aduersaries say that it is not lawfull or expedient that euery man should read the Scriptures but rather that the people should be ignoraunt affirmyng ignoraunce to be the mother of deuotion I could haue aūswered it to the full by the woorde of God alone whiche woorde I thincke to be most sufficient but bycause these kynde of men before named wil not accept Christ to be a true man of hys word except he haue some of the doctors fathers for witnesses Seyng nowe that it hath pleased our good God in mercy so to deale with vs as he hath in these our
layde hys hande to the plow and doth looke behynde hym is not meete for the kyngdome of God T. I doe greatlye feare that there are manye Epicurians amonge those hypocrites of whom we haue spoken For although there be manye in the worlde that are taken for hypocrites because they loue not God nor shewe it so to the worlde yet notwithstanding there are some Epicurians the one sorte more couerte then the other There is one sorte which esteeme the whole volume of the sacred Scriptures to be but fables and they turne it all into iestyng and scoffing There is an other sorte which dare not so openlye declare what they thinke yet doe they not muche differ in opinion from those of whom we haue spokeÌ„ Ther is beside these an other sorte whiche thinke that euerye man shall be saued in his religion what so euer it bee if so be that they serue God in a good intent ¶ Of the testimonyes by the vvhich men declare them selues to be very Epicurians and of the prouidence and iustice of God against their false opinions D. ALl those opinions are wonderfull daungerous and notwithstanding the same the greatest number of Math. xxv Roma â—iii â— Cor. iiii men at this daye declare them selues by their workes to bee of that iudgement For if they beleued assuredly that there were a GOD and an other lyfe and a iudgement to the which euery man shall be called to render aâ—â— accompte and that there were a Paradyse and a hâ—ll they would neyther speake nor liue in such sorte as they do but would stande in more feare of God and beare greater reuerence to his lawe and worde For if there be a God which no maÌ„ can denie vnlesse he be more barbarous then all the barbarous people that euer were in the worlde yeâ— then barbarousnes it self and more brute and furious theÌ„ are all sauage and brute beasts and more deuilish then the deuill himselfe it must nedes be that such thinges are for the one of them can not be without the other God can not be God without his prouidence iustice if he haue his prouidence seinge he hath discerned men from beastes and hath made him a partaker of his godlye nature there is no doubt but that he hath other care of him then of beastes Gene. ii i. Pe. i Psalm v Iohn 5 Roma iii and hath created him to an other ende and to an other lyfe and felicitie then he hath created them If he haue iustice and goodnes in him it is very certayne that the good pleaseth him and the euill displeaseth him and that he will punyshe the one and reward the other And for so much as we do not here playnely see his iudgementes in all things that is vnto vs a most certaine argument that there is an other lyfe in the which God wil make knowen that which is hidden to vs here otherwise he shoulde not be that which he is T. It is very certayne ¶ Of the lighte of Gods vvorde vvhich is geuen to men and of the nature of the same and of the contempte that is among men D. If it be so as in dede euery man that is of good iudgement doth knowe we ought not to thinke that he hath created a Sunne wherby to lighten the eyes of maÌ„ and to conducte him and leade him to those thinges that are necessarie for this life and that he which is the very true onely sunne fountaine of all light hath not prepared light for the spirituall eyes of our soule to leade them to those thinges which are necessarye to eternall lyfe For if he haue had so great care for our body which is but earth and corruption and for this present life which is common with the lyfe of other creatures what shall we thinke that he hath of the soule for whose sake he hath made the body and of the immortalitie which he hath prepared for him And it is very true that the true lighte of the soule is that same worde of God by the which God doth instruct vs. Which according to the testimonye of Dauid is that onely lighte which doth lighten our eyes and doth directe our steppes and doth also geue wisedome to them that are ignoraunt wherfore wheÌ„ psalme cxix we shall haue to do with men to perswade them to rede the holy scriptures and to heare the worde of God and to beholde that light which shyneth vn to vs in the same it is no more in effecte but as we shoulde exhorte men to open their eyes to behold receaue the light of the sunne Should we not thinke it very straunge if we should be enforced daylye to solicite men to this and should he not of right be thought to be very ingrate that had rather to holde hys eyes shutte and to be blinde stil then to beholde this light of the sunne and to be lightened by the same T. Yes truely D. Yet notwithstanding we doe dayly much worse when that we are prouoked to vnderstand and harken to the word of God in sundrye wyse and yet we will not vnderstand of it at all T. Thou sayest very true but men do not see so farre ¶ Of the authoritie of holy Scriptures and in vvhat sort God hath declared his vvill vnto men and hovve much it agreeth vvith his prouidence D. ANd as concerning those that doe not beleue that the holy Scriptures and worde of God are the worde of God they are more voyde of reason then are those yâ— should saye there is no sunne in the worlde or if there bee one that he shyneth not or els that the lyghte by the which we are lighted is not of the sunne for we oughte not to doubte but Iohn 1. that God who is the perfect and true light hath manifested himselfe vnto men whom he hath created of purpose to haue the fruition and enioying of this diuine lyght and to walke in the same And if it bee so I woulde gladlye knowe of those whiche beare so small reuerence to the holye Scriptures if they knowe anye other more certayne meane more meete and more excellente by the whiche GOD hath declared himselfe vnto men and whether there bee anye other doctryne more worthye of hys maiestie and doth contayne and reuele vnto men thinges more hye more godlye more secreate more vnknowen and incomprehensible to all mennes vnderstandyng more true and more certayne and that doth touche and presse mans harte more and hath in them greater vertue and effecte bee it to humble and beate them downe bee it to releue and comforte them and is in all respectes more meete more profitable and more wholesome for man and better approued and confyrmed by infynite testimonyes of God and that doth better deserue to bee credited then this which hath bene reuealed by the Aungells of heauen who daylye doe see the face of God Also Mat. xviii Heb. i. by the Patriarches Prophettes Apostles and the moste holye and
fallyng into such perplexities and inconuenieÌ„ces he that will not beleue me let him rede their Canons and Decrees and Platina whiche hath written the lyues of the Popes and hath bene nourished and broght vp in their Court and Sabellicus the other historians which haue entreated of these matters T. I beseche thee shewe me some examples to proue this to be true to the end that I may not thinck that thou speakest of pleasure without proofe D. Yf I should alledge al those that I might gather out of their bokes I could find ynough wherwith to outretayne thee a long tyme but I will hold me contented with a reasonable nomber to satisfie thy request We wil first speake of the Canons and Decrees that the Popes haue made the one sorte contrarie to the other Platinâ— What agreement is ther betwene the Pope Iohn the xxij the Pope Nicholas when the one pronounced iudicially the Iesus Christ and his Apostles possessed nothyng neither in priuate ne yet in common and the other did the cleane contrarie â—ecre 4. â—itl de diuor ca 5 Plat. Sabel In the matter of diuorce Celestine doth permit that the faithfull partie shall marry agayne yf that the other partie be fallen into heresie Innocent on the contrarie denieth it Afterward Stephen the with hath cut of and made of none effect the actes of the Pope Formosus by the authoritie of the Councell and agayne Iohn the x. who succeded this Stephen did condempne his sentence in the assemble of Rauenna here must it nedes be of necessitie that not onely the one or the other of the Popes hath erred but also that CouÌ„cels whiche haue folowed their opinions and sentences whom they haue abused to coÌ„firme their errors abuses and tyrannie by their authoritie Wherfore Gerson which was one of their owne doctors sayd not without greate reason that the saying of one doctor approued by the Canonical Scriptures was more to be credited then the declaracion of the Pope and the saying of a doctor well sene in the holy Scriptures and alledging the vniuersall authoritie was more to be credited then a generall Councell T. He did not amisse for somuch as they do so disagree amonge them selues D. Panormitan which was at the same tyme a man of great reputacion and was present at the Councels of Constance â—â—nor in â—a signifi de Elecii and Basle as Gerson was hath sayd no lesse althoughe he were a great Idolatre of the Papacie for he sayd that we ought more to credite the saying of a simple lay man alledgyng for hys proofe the Scriptures then to all the whole Councell ¶ Of the contrarietie of the Decrees of many Councels touchyng the Mariage of the Ministers of the Churche T. I Do not a litle maruell that such meÌ„ durst affirme any such thyng in those dayes D. It is so but the veritie is of such power that she constraineth her very enemyes yea the deuils them selues to confesse her but folowing our purpose for so much as we haue spokeÌ„ of Popes let vs now come to the coÌ„trarietie of Councels The CouÌ„cel of Nice Hist Tri. li. 2. c. 13. dist 31 c Nicen. Plat. in vita Silu. Dist 28 cap. Si quis dist 30. Siquis viroruÌ„ dist 31. c. Quoniam of whom we haue already spoken which was holden in the yeare three C. twentie and three did alow the Mariage of Ministers of the Churche and condeÌ„pned those that would forbid it The first Councell of Sangres holden in the yere three hundred thyrty and three hath done no lesse and did accursse al such as vnder colour of Religion should leaue their fathers mothers and wines The sixth Councel of CoÌ„stantinople hath in like sorte ordeyned that no man should make any vowe to lyue without a wife that the Priestes whiche should separate them selues from their wiues for theyr holy orders sake should be excluded from the Communion dist 27. c. Quidam The Councel of Anticyre holden in the yeare three huÌ„dred and foure hath in like sorte permitted that Deacons should marrie yea euen after that they had receiued theyr orders And as concernyng the Councell of Carthage holden Ex Car. â— â–ª in the yeare foure hundred twenty one in the whiche the heresie of Pellagius was condempned by two hundred and seuentene Bishops among whom S. Augustin was it appeareth manifestly by the twelueth constitucion of the Apoc c. â— Extra de Clem Coâ— lib. 6. c. 1. Epâ—p li 2 Tom. 1. heres 41 same that the Bishops and other men of the Churche were married And Boniface the viij did suffer the religious to enioy their liberties althoughe they were married The viij Councell of Tolletto doth allowe to breake al vowes and othes whiche are made agaynst the fayth And Epiphanius doth earnestly condempne those who hauing not the gift of continencie had rather for shame of the worlde to commit fornication and adulterie secretly then to marrie On the Albert. Crautâ— in Saro lib. 4 ca. 43 Navvcler contrarie the Councell of Neocesarie holden the yeare three hundred and thirty and the second Councell of Carthage holden the yeare foure hundred and twentie after them the CouÌ„cell of Magonce did condempne the Mariage of Priestes and Ministers of the Churche did wholly forbid it and did binde the Priestes MoÌ„ckes and Nunnes to vnlawfull vowes impossible for men to kepe were cleane contrarie to the worde of God Thys Councell of Magonce was holden by the Emperour Henry the iij. in the whiche he assembled an hundred and thyrtie Bishops Some saye that the Pope Leo the ix was there also present at it It was also ordeyned in that Councell yâ— men of the Church should keepe neytheir hounde greyhond spaniel nor hauke ne yet should vse any seculer traffique and that none should be receiued for a Monke vnles he came of his own free wil and were of lawfull age but these Decrees haue not ben so well obserued as hath the forbidding of Mariage Likewise Gregory the vij a Monk of Clunie otherwise called HildebraÌ„d which was Pope in the tyme of the Emperor Henry the iiij did commaunde by his letters to Otto Bishop of ConstaÌ„ce Naucler â—lbert Crauts Lambert Hirsweld neare about the yeare a thousand fortie and seuen that he should forbid through out all his diocese all Priestes to marie whiche were not then maried and that he should disolue the mariage of all such as were already married T. I see in this no great accord D. Notwithstandyng all this was done and not without great tyraÌ„nie ne yet without great resistaunce T. I beleue so ¶ Of the contrarietie of certaine Councels concerning the forbiddyng and difference of Meates D. HEre is as much as I did determine to speake as touching Mariage let vs now come to the forbidding of of meates The second Bracarense CouÌ„cell holden the yere Di. 30. ca. Si quis six hundred nynetene did acursse all
therfore mē may not rashlye iudge and say that the Councells are contrary the one sort to the other although that in thinges concerning the policie of the church more then the fayth the one hath oftentimes chaunged that the other hath decreed For the lawfull generall Councells were neuer contrarye the one to the other in anye peece of the substaunce of our fayth which is necessarye to our saluation And in this sort muste it be vnderstoode that S. Augustine hath sayd The former Councells haue bene amended August Tom. 7. de baptis cont donatist li. ◠cap 3 by the latter and that the ordinaunces and decrees of prouinciall Councells ought to geue place to those of greater Councells but the Canonicall Scripture doth geue place to none And as touching the Councell of Carthage it was no generall but a particuler Councell as Saint Augustine proueth agaynst the Donatystes And in deede they denye not but that particular Councells may erre and that they ought to be reformed by the generall as it is already declared ¶ Of the errours and abuses that haue beene brought into the church vvhat meane there ought to be had for the correction and amendment of such Councells vvhen nede shall requyre D. THen they do confesse at the least that the prouinciall Councells may erre yea euen those in the which the most wyse and holy men that were in the worlde since the Apostles tyme haue bene present For S. Cyprian was one Euseb 7. 5. cap of the best learned men that hath beene in the church since that tyme and was of such zeale towards the word of God and his church that he dyed a martyr for the truth of Iesus Christ And then iudge you that if a Councell in the which such personages were might erre what we may thinke of many Idolatries and supersticions and of many vaine ceremonies tradicions and abuses that haue bene sowed in the church not by Councells and particular Synodes onely but by particuler men who haue charged the church to what so euer pleased them For one hooded Monke or Fryer had beene sufficient to haue inuented a thousand maner of doinges cleane contrarye to the Scriptures and forthwith they shoulde haue beene put in vse and allowed as if they had beene articles of the fayth If it were lawfull then to chaunge those same verye thinges which the generall and lawfull Councells had decreed concerning the policie and discipline of the Church as touching their maners according to the nedefulnes of the circumstaunces and the capacitie of men of places and tymes it oughte then to bee no lesse lawfull to those vnto whom God hath geuē the knowledge of hys worde to condempne and abolyshe so many abuses innumerable errours which by so many meanes and wronge waies without order or ecclesiastike discipline haue beene sowed in the Church of the Lord and are so intollerable that the very greatest enemyes of veritye euen the Romaine Antichrist haue beene constrayned to confesse it And without going any further to proue it dyd not the Pope Adrian confesse not manye yeares since that there were many enormities and inconueniences in the Romish seate and many abuses offences and disorders in the gouernment of the Church And beside thys what confession dyd the Legates and oratours of the Pope Paule deceased make at the Councell of Trent of the estate of their church But what wilte thou saye if I doe proue by S. Augustine that not onely the prouincial and nationall Councels may be corrected by the greate and generall Councels but also euen they them selues maye bee corrected the one by the others the fyrst by the laste T. If it be so our aduersaries shoulde not then thinke it straunge if we would not wholly dwell vppon the authoritie of their Councells D. That same doth playnlye appeare by his writinges wherevpon he declareth when that same ought to be done and by what meane To witte that when by experience of thinges that which was secret is opened and that which was hidden is knowen without any puffing vp in pryde full of sacrilege without any swollen arrogancie withoute any contention and enuye but with holy humilitie with the vniuersall Christiā peace he speaketh here generally of all Councells and of all that euer may be determined in them ¶ Of those that vvayte vpon the Prelates of the Church and vvoulde haue them to correcte the abuses that therein are and vvhat libertye euery man hadde to sovve and bryng them into the Church and vvhat agreement difference there is betvvene the auncient Heathen Emperours and the Popes and their Councells and assemblyes T. THey doe not vtterly denye but that there are some abuses and errours in the Church but they say that it appertayneth not to euery man to reforme them but that the charge thereof belongeth to the prelates of the Church vnto whom GOD hath geuen it Wherfore they thinke meete to haue a generall Councell to determyne what thynges shoulde bee obserued and what shoulde bee abolyshed before that any thyng shoulde be chaunged or altered D. The Seducers and false Prophets which filled the church with errours dyd not tarye a generall Councell to poure out their poyson and to corrupte the Church of the Lorde but we muste tarrye for a Councell to pourge it and in the meane tyme the poore soules shall goe to the deuill Muste we put the matter in question in a Councell whether we ought to beleue that Iesus Christ is God and the verye Sonne of God and our onely Sauiour and redeemer Shall we doe as dyd the Emperour Tiberius who put the matter in deliberaion in the Councell at Rome with the prerogatiue of his voyce and the testimonye of hys consent whether Christ shoulde bee accepted and receaued amongest the Gods or no Which thing he did for that as Tertullian witnesseth that the Romaines had a very auncient lawe by the which it was ordayned that there should Apolo 5. bee no God canonized by the Emperours and that none shoulde be so receaued vnlesse he were allowed and confirmed by the Councell For thys cause Iesus Christ was not receaued for a God because it pleased not the Councell albeit that the Emperour was of contrarye opinion T. Then had not the Emperour so great authoritie in the Councell at Rome ne yet in hys Empyre as the Pope will chalenge ouer the Councells ouer the whole church ouer al Christendom yea and ouer the word of god it self D. It is true and therefore I feare greatlye that if Iesus Christ were now to be receaued he shoulde be as farre of from being receaued at the Councells in the which thys Romaine Antichrist doth preside as he was then at that Councell of Rome For sithe they doe reiecte and disalowe hys doctrine they do sufficiently declare what opinion they haue of him T. It can not be better knowen by any thing then by that for that is a profe most sure ¶ Of the thinges vuhich of them selues
Thes ii shall be destroyed Wherfore those people vnto whoÌ„ God hath geueÌ„ so great graces to haue such princes and Lords which employ their power which God hath geueÌ„ theÌ„ to the edifying of the holy citie of God the ruine of Babilon hys enemie do submit the temporal sworde which they haue receaued of God to the sword of Iesus Christ his word employ it only to serue him haue good occasioÌ„ to render thaÌ„kes vnto God for yâ— great benefit which he hath bestowed vpon them to pray vnto him effectuously to coÌ„serue maintain such princes daily to encrease his graces in theÌ„ folowing the councell of S. Paule in his exhortation which he made to the Christians concerning that prayers which should be made in the Church I do warne you then saith he that before all thinges men make request prayers supplications render thankes for all men for kings and for all others which aro ordeyned in dignitie to the end that we may lead a peaceable life in all feare of God and honestie for that is good and agreable before God our Lord. ¶ VVhat Councell they ought to follovve vvhich haue princes that are tyrauntes and enemyes to the Gospell and of the preparacion to the crosse for the same T. THis Councell is very good But what sayest thou of them which in stead of suche princes haue cruell tyrauntes who being dronke with the cup of the great whore of Babilon do persecute furiously the poore childreÌ„ of God do dayly bathe their bloudie sworde in the bloud of the poore shepe of Iesus Christ D. Let them pray hartely to God that it may please him to appease their rage and fury and that he will so chaunge their hartes that where they haue bene persecutours they may become true feeders of the flocke which God hath committed vnto them to saue and defend them froÌ„ the rage of that cruell beast whose marke they haue to long worne In the meane time because it is more to be feared that manye of the Princes Lordes and Magistrates which haue alreadye tasted of the worde of God and layde handes to hys worke shoulde not loose their taste and waxe colde or shoulde rebell agaynst Iesus Christ in proces of tyme then there is of hope according to mans iudgement and the face which the worlde sheweth vnto vs at thys present that those whiche resiste the truth will embrace it receaue maintaine it therfore it is very nedeful in these latter daies the euery maÌ„ make ready himself betime to the crosse We haue the experience herof very plainly in many places D. It is not to be maruelled at For Sathan is continually most busted about those personages that ar most excellent And also there is the corruption of our nature and the fauour or feare of men which peruerteth many Therfore he that will be of the children of God let him alwayes haue in hys â—ath x. Luke ix minde these worthy sentences of Iesus Christ of his Apostles Who soeuer wil be my disciple let him geue ouer himself beare his crosse continually after me and followe me ii Tim. iii. Actes 14 Iohn 16 And againe who soeuer will liue holily in Christ he muste suffer persecution Againe men must enter into the kingdome of heaueÌ„ by many tribulations The time shall come that he which shal put you to death shal thinke he doth God seruice For we shoulde greatlye deceaue our selues if that we should promise to our selues in this world any rest and any estate or peaceable raigne abounding in all kinde of pleasures voluptuousues and a continual peace without any trouble or afflictioÌ„ For we may not thinke that the kingdome of Iesus Christ is any such raign for so much as his kingdome is not of this worlde Therfore he that woulde haue such Iohn 6. 19 an one let him seke it at that hand of Antichrist for hys kingdome is in dede of this world And further when we are in this sort disposed I know no better meanes theÌ„ to trauaile with all diligence to vnderstand aryght the will of God by his word and to amend our life according to yâ— rule therof desiring him earnestlye to geue vs true vnderstanding a hart to follow the same then welcome be what he shal send ¶ Of the studye of holy Scriptures and of the decree vvhiche vvas made in the Councell of Nice concerning the same and of the excellencie and authoritye of the Bible and of his decrees T. I Find your CouÌ„sell your resolution very good for my part it semeth vnto me that you haue spokeÌ„ that which is the most sure our dutie is to enquire with al diligence by al meanes of the will of God by his holy Scriptures D. It is the Councell yâ— Iesus Christ himself geueth which saith Search you that Scriptures let vs followe yâ— example of those of Beroa of whom it is spokeÌ„ in the Actes of the Apostles They Iohn v. Actes xvii Rom. xiiii i. Cor. iiiâ— were not like to a rable of obstinate persons which wil not heare at all nor like vnto a number of vayne people which lightly do allow al that euer is set forth vnto them without taking any deliveratioÌ„ and not prouing that spirites whether they be of God or no For they heard S. Paule then they searched the scriptures to sée if it wer so as Paul had taught And wheÌ„ they saw that he spake according to the Scriptures they receaued his doctrine as the doctrine of God T. Here was a good order o proceeding D. It is certayne for we must euery one of vs answere for himself in proper person before the iudgement seate of God not for others nor yet by attornyes Wherefore if others will not do their duetie but will tarye for a Councell let not vs fayle to do our duetie to followe better Councell if we may attaine vnto it And if a CouÌ„cell be of value why do we loke for new councells Why do we not cleaue vnto the olde which are holden longe since ought to be of greater authoritie then the new If we beleue not obey the auncient Councells why shall we beleue obey the new let vs rather obeye the Councell of Nice which did ordeine yâ— there shoulde be none among the Christians but they should haue Bibles to learne in them the will of God theÌ„ to that in the which Antichrist his Doctors haue forbiddeÌ„ the coÌ„mon people to haue them to rede theÌ„ in their natural tonges against the determination of the ChristiaÌ„ Councel For the boke of the Bible is the true boke of the true and lawful Councells and of the eternall ordinaunces of God wherefore S. Augustine not without good cause sayd that the authoritie of the scriptures is much greater then all the vnderstanding of man is able to comprehend know how subtill fine and perfect so euer it be with
the which sentence S. Chrysostome agreeth well saying that the Councell maye ordeine nothing against the word of God for what so euer Hom. de perfect Euang is ordayned against the holy Scripture is errour ¶ Of the true Councels vvhich do excell al the reste in authority ar the rule by the which al the rest must be examined T. THose which desire a Councell shoulde consider in the same what hath bene ordained by that auncient Councells by the holy Scriptures to the end that men may know which is the true doctrine of the Church which men oughte to embrace D. We haue very good meane to know it and not to tarye at all for a Councell For among al the Councells there are chieflye two of the authoritie that all the reast are nothing in comparison of them by whom all the reast must be measured whose decrees are so plaine that there is no doubt in them but that euery man that wil be gouerned by them may vnderstand them as it is nedefull for al those that will be saued T. I did thinke there had bene foure generall Councells to witte that of Nice of Constantinople of Ephese and of Chalcedone the which S. Gregory confesseth to receaue allowe and honour as he doth the foure bookes of the holy Grego iâ— Registr diâ—inc 5 Gospell D. I do also confesse that these foure were that principall of all those that were holden sythe the Apostles time but it semeth to me that Gregorye doth geue vnto theÌ„ more authoritie then he ought to do in comparing them to the bookes of the foure Euangelistes But what soeuer they be the two of the which I speake are yet muche more auncient then are those of far greater authoritie for God himselfe in proper person did there preside did speake with his own mouth dyd there shew his presence in great maiestie and by great and excellent myracles tokens T. In what place and at what time were these Councells holden D. The first was holden in the Mount Synai in the beginning of the third moneth after that God had brought the people of Israell forth of the land of Egipt The other was holden in the country of Iewry namely in the Mount Sion in the Citie of Ierusalem at that tyme that our Lorde Iesus Christ was seene vppon earth and that he did accompanie among men in the forme of man but they were called and assembled by other meane then the Councells of the Papistes holden in other sorte ¶ Of the authoritie of the princes and of the Popes concerning the Councells and of the Popes tyrannie in that behalfe and vvhat aduauntage he hath at this present T. SEing we are happened vppon this matter of calling holding of Councells I would be verye glad if that thou wouldest declare vnto me some little peece of the order that the papistes do obserue in holding of Councells to the end that I might the more easely vnderstand if we should haue as small hope in theÌ„ as thou hast D. Thou doest aske of me a verye hard thing For how should I declare to thée that order of those which haue no order But the trouth is that thou makest yâ— matter somewhat the more easye in that that thou requiresâ— of me but a litle But yet I know not where to finde yâ— litle yâ— thou doest aske of me if it be true which I haue heard of meÌ„ worthy of fayth which haue bene present haue seene yâ— experience of it Thou shouldest haue spoken a greate deale more aptly if thou haddest required me to declare vnto thee the disorder the which alwaies they cloke in such sort that it shall seeme in dede to those that shall beholde the manner of their proceding that they wil obserue the order that hath bene vsed in the auncient Councells sauing that the Popes do alwayes seke to encroche not only vpoÌ„ the authoritie of Emperors kings Christian princes more then the auncient bishops did but also vpoÌ„ the word of god the Church T. In what sort D. We haue alreadie shewed how the auncient Emperours kings Christian princes did accustom to assemble the CouÌ„cells not alwayes by tirannie but by good accorde agrement with the good Bishops the true pastors of the Church now the Popes do not onely take vnto them authoritie ouer Emperours kings christian princes such as in time passed they were wonte to haue ouer the Popes the other Byshops But also wheÌ„ they haue had the meanes They haue caused Councels to be holdeÌ„ of their own authoritie in despite of the Emperors princes â–ª wheÌ„ they did know that they coulde not haue the Emperours and princes at their deuotion as we haue alreadye shewed by example But now in these daies because that the greatest number and the greatest princes of Christendome are much at the deuotion of the Pope they do more easely agree together in this poynt theÌ„ those which are of contrarye religion â–ª if there be any other which do not well agree with him he maketh no great accompt of them but estemeth them vnworthye of his Councell T. Hath he not reason so to do ¶ Of the manner of the proceeding of the Papistes in their Councels and of their presidentes and of the princes Ambassadours that are sent thither and of their instructions and of the practise of the Pope and his and of the disputations that they haue there D. THe Councell being appoynted and called if the Pope the Emperour the Kinges and the Christian princes be not there present they haue then there their Ambassadours Legates to represent their persons they haue also their instructions to lead them according to that yâ— euery of theÌ„ hath in charge if that Pope be not present to preside then his Legates do preside These worthy meÌ„ before they come thither do first aske as it is mete for such Prophets as they ar at the mouth not of the soueraign god but of the Pope their God vpon earth to vnderstand of him how he will haue theÌ„ to conclude in the Councel For seing that he is God he hath also his holy spirite agreable to his deitie And when they are in this sort well instructed of that will of their God theÌ„ go they on inspired with his sprite do put forth to the Councel those articles which they haue in charge from their God to propone whose kingdooÌ„ glory they haue chiefly in recoÌ„meÌ„da cioÌ„ WheÌ„ this is don theÌ„ they dispute of theÌ„ in soÌ„e gret haul and ther those that wil dispute are heard not to find out therby the truth to conclude accordyng to the same but to make a countenance to hold some forme of a lawfull CouÌ„cel in the which it was accustomed to geue audience to all that woulde come as wel of that laitie as of meÌ„ of the church for the coÌ„clusioÌ„ that shall be made is already determined in the secret Councell
T. I know it certainly so to be ¶ Of the causes for the vvhich God did allovve and confirme vvyth such authoritie the ministery of Moyses and hovv hard it is to bring men vnder those lavves by the vvhich mens liues ought to be gouerned and directed D. SEing then it is so and that God woulde euen at once geue such testimony of hys heauenly doctrine and of the ministery of all the Ministers by whom he would haue it declared to men it is no maruel if his good pleasure were once to shew him selfe in such maiesty vnto such a company to the ende that no man might iustlye afterwarde take occasion to doubt of that doctrine of God and to reproche Moyses as if he had framed these lawes of hys owne head which he had brought to the people of Israell and that he should haue made them beleue that he had receaued them of God as many Heathen lawmakers haue made theyrs to be beleued and as manye false Prophetes haue done of their drcames and false doctrine For they did well knowe that men were of such nature that they would not willing ly become subiect but onelye vnto him whom they thought to be greater then them selues wherfore hardly wil a man make him selfe subiect to a man to lyue according to hys wyll and pleasure if he be not thereunto enforced If it be done but by constrainte it is but during the time that he is the weakest For as soone as he can finde anye occasion to cast that yoke from him he wil not misse to doo it with all his power T. We see dayly experience sufficiently of this For how caÌ„ one submit himself willingly vnto a maÌ„ whoÌ„ he estemeth to be his fellow and equal to himselfe and not his master and superior when he wil not willingly submit himselfe to God his Creator his Master his Lord and Soueraigne Prince ne yet vnto his lawes D. Thou mayest haue a iudgement by that but albeit that man wil not willingly yelde himselfe subiect neither to God ne yet to men Yet notwithstanding if he must needes haue a Lorde and to lyue accordinge to the wyl and minde of an other and not of himselfe yet is hys hart so cruel and stubburne that he thinketh it greater dishonour to submit himselfe to such as he is himselfe then to his superiour and to man then to God On the other side whatsoeuer darkenes is fallen into the vnderstanding of man by meane of synne yet for all that ther remaineth a certayne impression of the knowledge of God in the hart of man which compelleth them al to acknowledge that ther is a souerain and diuine power vnto the whiche it muste needes bee that euerye man be subiect wyll he nyll he and that this soueraigne power is God eternal Wherfore ther is none howe wicked so euer he be if he be not at all more brutall then the brute beastes that is not somwhat moued when the authoritye of God is alledged and that feareth not punishment when it is geueÌ„ him to vnderstand that God hath commaunded or forbidden that which is proponed if he say or do the contrarye chiefly when we haue a good opinion that we thinke wel of them that speake vnto vs. T. It is very true ¶ Of the faynings and subtilties that the Pagan lavv makers and the false prophets haue vsed to authorise their lavves and doctrine vnder the cloke of Gods name D. FOr that cause Zoroaster the lawmaker of the Bactrianes and Persians gaue them to vnderstand that he had receiued of the god Oromasis those lawes which hee gaue vnto them Licurgus the Lacedemonian law gyuer did the like fathering his vpon the god Appollo Minos the law geuer of the Cretians which now are called Candians did fayne to haue receiued hys of the god Iupiter Numa Pompilius for the like cause did fayne hymself also to haue conference with the Nimph and goddesse Aegera and that he receiued of her the lawes which he gaue to the Romaines chiefly those that touched the religion â—amolris the law maker of the Scythiens hath also reported his to be of the goodesse Vesta And Mahomet by whom the Turks haue bene seduced which haue had partly their originall from the Scythyans how manye finesses he hath vsed to authorise his Alcoran and making them beleue that it was sent from heauen And all the false Prophetes and seducers haue not inueÌ„ted a litle And the Romish Antechrist companion to Mahomet hath not he obserued the same order not onely to geue so much authority to his tradicions as to the word of God and to cause them to be receiued for the woorde of God but also to make him selfe Iudge of the holy Scriptures and of their meaninges vnder shadow of the promes which Iesus Christ did make to Iohn 14. 15. 16. his Apostles to send vnto them the holy ghost and to direct and gouerne his church by hym as thoughe that which is spoken of the true church of Iesus Christ and of the Ministery therof did appertaine to that Antechrist and to hys Ministers Their conclusion is euen as good as if a man would conclude in this sorte The holye ghost was promised and geuen to the Patriarches Prophetes to the true Church of Israel that therfore it must follow that Ierobo am and hys Priestes and Achab Iesabel and their false prophets were inspired and directed by the spirite of God and Annas and Cayphas the Scribes and Pharyses and all the councel and the Synagoge of the Iewes which did condemne Iesus Christ and his Apostles that Micheas Elias Iesus Christ and his Apostles which stoode against them being so small a number against so great a multitude were heretickes For these men had the Kinges and Princes on their sides and did supplye the place and seate of the true Patriarches and prophets vnto whom and by whom the promesses were made by God and were in dede of their own race and blood Al be it that the Pope hath no such coulour as they had he hath notwithstanding armed himselfe with the authority of God as they did For he did wel know that if men had not had such perswasion of him and of his doctrine he and his shoulde neuer haue growen to such authority as they are come vnto T. That is not to be doubted ¶ Of the testimonies that God hath geuen to Moyses of hys vocation and how necessary it vvas D. NOwe it is not so with Moyses as it is wyth these men for Moyses was not onely auowed by God by word and by his own authoritye but God did geue vnto him letters and seales and this not onelye once or twyse Exo. xix but often times And to the end that he would leaue the les occasion to doubt either of the letters or of the seales hee came in proper person to ratify al that by his own mouth and that not in secrete or els before two or three
truth wittingly 14. 15 Of such as do resist the truth and persecute it through ignoraÌ„ce 1516 How that the want of the knowledge of god his truth 15. 17 Of the great care and diligence that is in men 17. 18 Of the diligence that is in men to do euyll 18. 19 Of the vices that make men ignorant of god of his truth 19. 20 Of such as do contemn the knowledge of God 20 21 Of the tru knowlege of god 22. 22 Of the true study of the holy scriptures 23. 23 Of such Christians as are ignoraÌ„t of the word of God 23. 24 How much necessary the study of the word of God is 25. 25 Of the desired ignorance 26. 26 How that the publicatioÌ„ that God hath made of hys word 27. 27 Of the meanes by which god hath and doth declare him selfe dayly to men 27. 28 Of those that cloke their rebellion agaynst the woord and wyll of God 28. 29 Of those whiche coÌ„mit idolatries to their princes 30. 30 Of the offices of good princes and good subiectes 31. 31 How those men obey the deuill not their princes 32. 32 Of lawfull lawes of Christian Princes 33. 33 Of vnfaythful seruantes to Princes of their councels â–ª agaynste God 34. 34 Of the iudgement of the Christian doctrine and by whom it must be reported 35. 35 Of the causes why the Princes shuld enquire of the wil of god at the mouth of his ministers 37. 36 Dishonour done to God by suche as vouchsafe not to enquire of his wyl at the handes of his ministers 38. 37 What meane and order Princes ought to kepe in iudgmeÌ„t of thinges apertaining to religioÌ„ 39. 38 Howe men ought to haue greater care for matters appertayning to religion 41. 39 How that men make more accouÌ„t of their promises then of theyr consciences 42. 40 Of the care that ought to be had to know yâ— way of saluatioÌ„ 44. 41 Admonitions in the holye Scriptures against false Prophetes 45. 42 How great busines letteth yâ— hearing of the word of God 46. 43. Meanes to aduaunce or hinder the busines of men 48. 44. Mockers and haters of the Gospel and wil seme no. 49. 45 Of Epicurians amoÌ„g the Christians their diuersitie 50. 46 Testimonies of Epicurians of Gods prouidence iustice against their false opinions 51. 47 Light of gods worde geuen to meÌ„ the nature of the same 52. 48 The authoritie of holy scripture 53. 49. Diuelish peruersitie of EpicuriaÌ„s their agreement with the doctrine of Mahomet 56. 50 Of mans traditions 57. 51 How we ought not to do yâ— which semeth good onely in our owne sight and opinion 58. 52 Of the workes that are done to a good intent 60. 53 To vnderstand whether god haue ordained sundry religions or no 61. 54 Of the causes of the diuersitie of the positine lawes 62. 55 Of the agreemente of the positiue lawes wyth the Ceremoniall lawes 63. 56 What libertie God hath geuen in the vsage of ceremonies 65. 57. ⧠The second Dialogue OF the reasons which cause manye to desire and wayte for a Councell 68. 1 Of the difference that is in Christendom in matters of religion and what it doth 69. 2 What profite the Church of God may receiue of Councels and of their issues 70. 3 Of the hope that menne may haue of the couÌ„cel in these daies 72. 4 Of the meanes of the enemies of the truth for the maintenance of their kingdoÌ„ false religioÌ„ 73. 5 Of the dauÌ„ger into the which they cast theÌ„selues which atteÌ„d onelye vpon Councels 74. 6 Of christiaÌ„ princes to reforme the Church by meane of a generall â—oâ—â—cell 75. 7 Of 〈◊〉 negligence and want that 〈◊〉 â—he ministers of the church 76. 8 Of the empeachments of men in yâ— reformatioÌ„ of the church 78. 9 How difficulte it is to assemble a lawful CouÌ„cel at this day 79. 10 How the Christians hinder the reformation of the Church 81. 11 What Councel the true christians ought to follow 83. 12 Of such as woulde agree the doctrine of Iesus Christe and that of Antichrist together 84. 13 The Interim maye not be receyued neither into the Churche of christ ne yet of Antichrist 85. 14 Of such christians as be Newters and indifferent 86. 15 For what cause the Interim hath his name of an aduerbe 88. 16 The profite that those that be instructed in Gods word may receiue by the Councels 89. 17 We oght not to be the disciples of meÌ„ but of Iesus Christ 90. 18 The word of God dothe authorise it selfe 92. 19 What goodnes men may receyue of a good CouÌ„cel and what euil of an euil Councel 93. 20 What the good Councels may do to the wycked 94. 21 What frute the church may receue of the lawful Councels 96. 22 What prayse is due to good princes and magistrates 97. 23 Hipocrisy of such as depend vpon meÌ„ in matter of religion 98. 24 How we are disciples of men and how of Iesus Christ 100. 25 Of the nature and vertue of true fayth 101. 26 Of the honor that is due to good true teachers in the church 103. 27 Of the diffâ—rence of the apostles prophets and of those that came after them 105. 28 The Councell of S. Auâ—â—â—â—yne concerning Councels 〈◊〉 â—â—itings of the Fathers 〈…〉 ⧠The third Dialogue intituled The authoritie of Councels OF the assistance of the holy ghost in lawful Councels 109. 1 What is to be desyred in CouÌ„cels those which are most excellent 111. 2 Of the weakenesses which wer in the Councel of Nice 112. 3 Of the contrarieties betwene the bishoppes ministers that haue bene in many aunciente Councels 113. 4 Of the contradictioÌ„s of the popes and their decrees 114. 5 Of the contrarietie of the decrees of many Councels 116. 6 Of the contrarictie of certain couÌ„cels concernyng the difference of meates 118. 7 Of the decrees of the Councels of Constance and Basle touchyng the Lordes supper vnder bothe kyndes 119. 8 Contrarietie in many CouÌ„cels coÌ„cernyng Images 120. 9 Of the Councel of Carthage concerning the Baptisme administred by heretiques 121. 10 OpinioÌ„ of the papists concerning general and particular CouÌ„cels 122. 11 Of the abuses and errors whiche haue ben broght into the church 122. 12 Of those that would haue the prelates of the church to correct the abuses that therin are 124. 13 Thinges of them selues sufficiently resolued without resolution of the Councel 125. 14 The liberty of Christians in reforming abuses 127. 15 The passages which the Papistes alledge to authorise their Councels 129. 16 The holy ghost is not bounde to any kind of persoÌ„ or estate 1â—9 17 Of the asseÌ„bles of yâ— faithful 131. 18 Of the Councels of the hereticks condemning the CouÌ„cels of the faythful 132. 19 The contradicions of the auncieÌ„t Councels declare that the councels may erre 134. 20 No hope for the ChristiaÌ„s to haue a lawful Councel 136. 21 What praiers men ought to make for their