not Apostolical traditions which appeare certainely so to be and yet woorthily we reiect those vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions of the Papists which are falsely fathered vpon the Apostles It is by these vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions that the grounds of our faith are impeached and shaken We therefore cannot be said to shake the grounds of faith who retaine the meere simplicity of those grounds and refuse all other strange and bastard stuffe but they shake the grounds of faith who become patrons of such tradition coloured with the names of the Apostles when notwithstanding they plainely crosse the written doctrine of the Apostles 2. W. BISHOP But let vs descend to the particulars wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saints are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that Praier is to be made to Saints departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These points are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creed which hath beene thought to containe all necessary points of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these points nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creed or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundred yeeres This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these bee new articles of faith neuer knowen in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and new Testament Answer is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all things which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this bee as they say wee must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-secene that did not propound the former points to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these latter times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many things confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctly to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all points of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestants themselues must needes confesse or else grant that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that we are iustified by Christs iustice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacraments or that the Church seruice must be said in the vulgar tongue or that all things necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is conteined in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as he doth all necessary points of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall points of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church which being the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Ioh. 16.13 directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith M. PERKINS The eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the church but we poore creatures that are subiect to mistaking and error should not so certainely vnderstand and know that truth of God vnlesse hee had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it self by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrow his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holy Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we do not that the written word containeth all points of doctrine necessary to saluation yet were it most necessary to relie vpoÌ„ the Catholike churches declaration both to be assured which books of scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon Saint Augustine a man of far better iudgement than any of these daies said Con. Epist. Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authority of the church mooued him therunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the words of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sense of them do but deceiue men and lead them into error and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to draw others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creeds and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creed did adde some few points vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particular diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by soâ—e fewe and obscure men onely questioned Wherefore to argue that no other points of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creeds is to cut off a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knew not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writings yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions now againe reuiued and holden by the Protestants as in those seuerall questions I haue before prooued R. ABBOT How M. Pirkins vnderstood that all necessary
seede of Abraham t cap. 9.28 We be Moses disciples u vers 41. We see x Ier. 8 8. We are wise and the law of the Lord is with vs y ca. 18.18 The law shall not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet and yet they persecuted Christ the sonne of God who only is the Truth How then may we now be assured that the Church of Rome is not the same to the church of Christ as they then were to Christ himselfe How may we poore creatures certainely vnderstand that those rich creatures are not subiect to error and mistaking as well as we Well if we will not beleeue it we may chuse but assurance M. Bishop can yeeld none He can tell vs a discourse what Christ said to Peter but that Christ euer spake either of Pope or Cardinall he can shew vs nothing And yet as if this matter were cleere he telleth vs of this church of theirs that whereas we are subiect to mistaking and errour God hath ordained and appointed the same to be a skilfull and faithfull mistresse and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it But againe we aske him where hath God so ordained and appointed in what Scripture hath he written it or by what words hath he expressed it that the church which he meaneth should bee our mistresse to tell vs what is Gods word what is the true meaning of it If he haue euidence authority for it let him shew it if he haue not what shall we thinke of him that dareth thus to bely the maiesty of God But if he considered the matter aright he would conceiue that those rich creatures of his haue no other or better meanes to assure what is Gods word and what is the meaning of it than other poore creatures haue By what touchstone they can make triall thereof by the same can we also as well as they Which comparison of the gold-smith and the touchstone which he himselfe vseth if it be rightly explicated serueth notably to set foorth the fraud and falshood of that church for which he pleadeth True it is that the church in this behalfe may rightly bee compared to the Goldsmith Now the Gold-smith for the discerning of true and perfect gold doth not take his owne fingers ends but goeth to the touch-stone and no otherwise can hee either make triall himselfe or giue assurance thereof to other men In like sort therefore the church which is the Gold-smith must vse a touch-stone for the assuring of that which it propoundeth to bee receiued and beleeued Now then whereas M. Bishop saith that we must rely vpon the churches declaration to be assured which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall I answer him that we cannot be assured thereof by the churches declaration vnlesse the church declare it and manifest it by the touch-stone The touch-stone whereby we are to take assurance heereof is the constant and perpetuall tradition and testimony of the former church And this testimony we first deriue from the church of the Iewes z Rom. 3.2 to whom the words of God were committed and to whose Scriptures a Luk. 24.44 the law and the Prophets and the Psalmes and to no other b Aug. cont Gaudent lib. 2. cap. 23. quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis Christ himselfe hath giuen testimony as witnesses of himselfe reckoning them for c Luk. 24.27 all the Scriptures and wherof the Iewes in their dispersion giue acknowledgment vntill this day God so prouiding that d Aust in Psa 58. Per omnes gentes dispersi sunt ludaei testes iniquitatis suae veritatis nostrae ipsi habent codices de quibus prophetatus est Chrislus in Ps 56. Codicem portat Iudaeus vnde credat Christianus Christian faith should be prooued out of those bookes which are acknowledged for true by them that are enemies thereto This testimony the Christian church receiued of the Apostles and hath continued the same together with the acknowledgment of those other bookes of the new testament which by the Apostles and Euangelists were added to the former What bookes then haue had this generall and vndoubted auerment and witnesse of the church continued from time to time those and no other are to be holden for Canonicall bookes and this is the true touch-stone for trial of certaine and vndoubted scriptures By which touchstone the church of Rome is found to bee not a faithfull Mistresse but a false harlot bringing her bastards into the Church and forcing men to take them for lawfully begotten And whereas it is the tradition and declaration of the former church which hath beene from the beginning by which both they and we are to be instructed as touching the true bookes of Canonicall Scripture they force vpon vs the tradition of their owne church now deliuered vpon their owne word howsoeuer contrary to that which the church formerly hath declared If we follow the declaration of the ancient church then are no other bookes to be taken for Canonicall but what are now accknowledged and approoued in our Church the same onely being testified concerning the old testament by the Church of the Iewes concerning both new and old by the whole Christian church both the Greeke and Latine the Easterne and Westerne churches as e Of Traditions sect 17. before hath been declared But the church of Rome perceiuing the authorising of some other writings to be likely to gaine credit to some broken wares whence her thrift and gaine ariseth hath taken vpon her very presumptuously as a Mistresse or rather a goddesse to giue diuine authority to those bookes reiecting the testimony of that church which in this behalfe should bee mistresse both to her and vs. In a word whatsoeuer is to be attributed to the church in this respect it is idlely by M. Bishop referred to the church of Rome as if all other churches must rely vpon her declaration we our selues being able by the touchstone to make triall of true Scriptures as well as the church of Rome and therefore there being no cause why we should rely vpon them more than they vpon vs. And as vainely doth he apply to his purpose the saying of Saint Austin that he should not beleeue the Gospell except the authority of the church mooued him thereunto there being nothing therein meant but what may bee applied to the church England as well as to the church of Rome Saint Austin speaking generally of the vniuersall church thorowout the world without any maner speciall intendment of the church of Rome But how leudly they abuse those words of Austin wholly against his meaning and purpose I haue f Of Traditions sect 22. before sufficiently declared and neede not heere to repeat againe As for the churches declaration for vnderstanding the Scripture that is also to be tried and made
purpose he misinforceth the testimony of Epiphanius whereby he would exempt Aerius from the crime of heresie iustly laied vnto his charge by S. Austin and many others But I answer him that though as a man I may be deceiued yet God hath giuen me more grace than that in these matters I will willingly deceiue my selfe In this matter of Epiphanius I do not take my selfe in any sort to be deceiued His conclusion against Aerius as touching praier for the dead is this r Epiphan haer 75. Ecclesia necessâ—râ—ò hoc perficit traditione à patribus accepta quis autem poterit staturum matris dissoluere aut legem patris velut Solomon dicit Audi fili fermones patris tui ne repudies statuta matris tuae ostendens per hoc quòd in scriptu sine scripto decuit pater mater autem nostra ecclesia habet statuta in se posita indissolubilia quae dissolui non pâ—ssuntâ—â— Cùm itaque ordi nata sint in ecclesia statuta benè se habeant omnia mirabâ—ittèr fiant confutaâ—us est tursus etiam hic seductor The Church necessarily doth this by tradition receiued from the Fathers and who may dissolue the statute of his mother or the law of his Father as Solomon saith My sonne heare thy Fathers words and refuse not thy Mothers statutes heereby shewing that both in writing and without writing the Father hath taught and our Mother the Church hath statutes set downe in her which are inuiolable and may not be broken Seeing then saith hee that there are statutes ordeined in the Church and they are well and all things are admirably done this seducer is confuted Now then doe I say that praier for the dead is a tradition Epiphanius saith the same that the Church doth it by tradition from the Fathers Doe I say that he maketh it a statute or ordinance of the Church He himselfe expresly calleth it so and finally presseth the authority of the Church onely for the confuting of Aerius He alleageth no Scripture his words import that he hath none to alledge Onely to grace the ordinances of the Church he wresteth a saying of Salomon nothing pertinent thereto as if we were taught that God without scripture teacheth vs by the Church And if he meane any otherwise but that it is the ordinance of the Church very vainly and idlely doth he heere name the ordinance of the Church But M. Higgons will say that though Epiphanius name it thus a tradition and an ordinance of the Church yet he meaneth it to be such a tradition and ordinance as is from the Apostles But let him meane what he will yet so long as he maketh it a tradition without Scripture my words stand good which I vsed to M. Bishop Å¿ Answer to Doct. Bishops epistle sect 10. pag. 79. 80. Epiphanius resolueth vs that praier for the dead is a matter of tradition and an ordinance of the Church and therefore freeth vs from any trespasse against any thing that Moses or the Prophets or Christ and his Apostles in the Scriptures haue deliuered vnto vs. If it be no matter of Scripture with Epiphanius then I say rightly that he cleereth vs from impugning therein any thing that is deliuered in the Scriptures Albeit because it is by Epiphanius his confession a tradition without Scripture therefore we resolue vndoubtedly that it came not from the Apostles because whatsoeuer they taught concerning faith and saluation is conteined in the Scriptures as before hath beene shewed at large Yea and how vnsoundly Epiphanius vrgeth Apostolike tradition is to be seene in the point which he speaketh of immediately before where he saith that t Epiphan haer 75. Decreuerunt Apostoli quarta prosabbato ieiunium per omnia excepta Pentecoste de sex diebus Paschatis praecipiunt nihil omninò accipere quà m panem salem aquam the Apostles decreed a fast vpon Wednesdaies and Fridaies continually saue betwixt Easter and Whitsuntide and that six daies before Easter men should receiue nothing but bread and salt and water whereas S. Austin professeth that u Aug. epist 86. Quibus diebus non oporteat ieiunare quibus oporteat praecepto Domini vel Apostolorum non inuenio de finitum what daies to fast or what daies not to fast he findeth it not defined or set downe by any commandement of Christ or his Apostles and by Tertullian it appeareth that the Primitiue Church alledged against the Montanists x Tertul. de ieiunio sic Apostolos obsernasse nullum aliud imponentes iugum certoruÌ„ in coÌ„mune â—mnibus obeundorum â—etunorum that the Apostles imposed no yoke of standing and common fasts and of the Lent-fast Socrates resolueth that y Socrat. hist. li. 5. c. 21. Quoniam nemo de ea praeceptum literarum monumentis proditum potest osteÌ„dere perspicuum est Apostolos liberam potestatem in eadem cuiusque menti arbitrio permisisse vt quisque nec metu nec necessitate inductus quod bonum est faceret because no man can shew any written commandement thereof it is manifest that the Apostles left it free to euery mans will and discretion that without feare or necessity euery man should doe what good is Now we cannot wonder that he that would thus vnaduisedly name Apostolike tradition for the one should do the same for the other also Albeit if M. Higgons can iustifie praier for the dead according to Docter Fields rule we will not sticke with him to grant it to be an Apostolicall tradition But he might haue seene that I had put it without the compasse of that rule if he had been desirous to know the truth and had not resolued first vpon other occasions to fall away and afterwards to seeke shifts to excuse his fall I shewed by Origen that the Church at first vsed no praier for the dead by the authour of the ecclesiasticall Hierarchy that when it was first vsed it was vsed onely for iust and holy men of whose soules they were resolued that they were in heauen for what causes I haue expressed there by Epiphanius that they added afterwards to pray for euill men also and publicke offenders by Austin that there was not knowen any definite and certaine vse and effect of praiers and offerings for the dead and that many in his time did plead that if any good were to be done for the soule after death it should rather be by it owne confession of sinnes than by offerings procured by other men And lastly whereas praier for the dead by M. Higgons confession dependeth vpon Purgatory I shewed by Austins expresse words that he had no certaine beleefe or knowledge of any such place which are more cleere to that purpose than that by any Popish sophistications they can be shifted or deluded 36. Albeit I did not only alledge him doubting of Purgatory but also plainly excluding it vpon occasion by denying any third place
other children are with breach of his Mothers virginity as Bucer and Molineus in Vnione Euangelij part 3. and Caluin signifieth no lesse in harmo sup 2. Math. vers 13. 4. Suffered vnder Pontius Pilate crucified dead and buried Friar Luther with a great band of his followers doth toughly defend that the God-head it selfe suffered which to be blasphemy Musculus doth prooue in his booke of the errours of Luthers Schollers yet Beza with all them that hold Christ to haue beene our Mediatour according to his diuine nature can hardly saue themselues from the same blasphemy For the chiefest ast of Christs mediation consisteth in his death if then the God-head did not suffer that death it had no part in the principal point of Christs mediation Hither also appertaine all these their blasphemies to wit that Christ was so frighted with the apprehension of death that he forgot himselfe to be our Mediatour yea refused as much as in him lay to be our redeemer Item that he thought himselfe forsaken of God and finally despaired Se the Preface Caluin denieth not the Creed to be Apostolike R. ABBOT Whether M. Bishop deale honestly with Caluin as touching his opinion of the Creed let it appeare by the very words of Caluin in the very place alleaged Where hauing named it the Apostles Creed he taketh occasion therupon thus to say a Caluin Institut lib. 2. cap. 16. sect 18. Apostolicum autem nuncupo de authore interim minime solicitus Apostolis certè magno veterum Scriptorum consensu ascribitur siue quod ab illis in commune conscriptum editum existimabant siue quòd compendium istud ex doctrina per corum manus tradita bona fide collectum tali elogiâ— confirmandum censuerunt Neque verò mihi dubium est quina prima flatim ecclesiae origine ad ecque ab ipso Apostolorum seculo instar publicae omnium calculis receptae confessionis obtinuerit vndecunque undem initio fuerit profectum Nec ab vno aliquo priuatim fuisse conscriptum verisimile est â—â—m ab vltima vsque memoria sacrosanctae inter pios omnes authoritatu fuâ—sse constet Quod vnicè curandum est id extra omnem controuersiâ—m positum habemus totam in eo fidei nostrae historier saccinctè distinctâ—quâ— ordine recenseri nihil autent contineri quod solidis Scripturae testimocijs mâ— sit consignatum Quo intelâ—ecto de anthâ—re vel anxiè laborare vel cum alique digladiari nihil attinet I call it Apostolike not making any great scruple who was the authour of it Surely by the generall consent of the ancient writers it is ascribed to the Apostles either for that they thought it in common written and set foorth by them or for that they thought good by such a title to confirme this Briefe which is faithfully gathered out of the doctrine deliuered by their hands Neither doe I doubt whencesoeuer it first began but that from the first originall of the Christian Church and from the very time of the Apostles it tooke place as a publicke and generally approoued confession Neither is it likely to haue beene written in priuate by any one because it is certaine that from the very beginning it hath beene of sacred authority amongst all godly men That which we are entirely to regard is without all controuersie or doubt that the whole story of our faith is therein briefely and distinctly set downe and nothing contained in it but what is confirmed by sound testimonies of the Scripture Which vnderstood and knowen it is bootlesse for a man either much to trouble himselfe or to contend with any other concerning the authour of it Which words of Caluin conteining both his owne iudgement and ours concerning the authority of the Creed doe sufficiently refell the malicious cauils of this vaine and absurd wrangler By our doctrine he saith it is not necessary to beleeue the Creed yea it is wholly to be reiected because it is no part of the written word Indeed formally it is no part of the written word because it is not a part of the very text of Scripture there set downe in that frame of words wherein we vse it but doe we any where say that whatsoeuer is not so a part of the written word is wholly to be reiected or not necessary to be beleeued Nay we are so farre from saying or thinking so as that we hold many things in M. Bishops bookes necessary to be beleeued which notwithstanding are so farre from being a part of the written word as that for the manifold vaine cauillations and impudent falsehoods therein contained they deserue rather to goe for wall paper than to be read for learned bookes As touching the matter and doctrine of the Creed Caluin affirmeth that it is taken out of the doctrine of the Apostles set downe in the written word and therefore it is no more to be reiected than the word it selfe from whence it is taken He denieth not but that the Apostles might be and were the authours of it though he cannot certainly affirme that they were so Hee acknowledgeth the consent of ancient writers that it was composed by the Apostles He confesseth the antiquity thereof euen from their very time He holdeth it vnlikely to haue beene published by any priuate man and therefore leaueth it most likely to be done by them By whomsoeuer it was done because it is consonant to the Apostolike spirit and doctrine he acknowledgeth all sacreed authoritie and opinion as heeretofore so now to be attributed vnto it What is there heere that malice it selfe could blame but that Popish malice aboue other is blinde and cannot see it owne shame Let vs now goe along with him to the particulars and see what wise worke he maketh to prooue that which he saith the Protestant Doctours doe foully mangle and in manner ouerturne the greatest part of the Creed Concerning the first article he saith we erre many waies But how I pray you first saith he they doe destroy the most simple vnity of the Godhead by teaching the diuine essence to be really distinguished into three persons But how doth that follow One essence of God distinguished really into three persons for if vnity of essence in this distinction bee terminus a quo and triality of persons be terminus ad quem and the reality of distinction be vnderstood not in the essence for it selfe but onely in the persons how shall it destroy the simple vnity of the God head to say that one diuine essence is really distinguished into three persons What will M. Bishop say that the distinction of the persons is intellectuall only and not reall Let him then set vp a schoole for Sabellius and Praxeas the heretickes and teach as they did that b August de haeres ad Quod vultd c. 41. Dicunt eundem ipsum esse patrem filium sp sanctum the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost are but one
iust iudgement of God till Christ had paid their ransome But marke how wisely he setteth downe the matter All the soules saith he departed from the beginning of the world What all the soules without exception the soule of Cain of Esau of Ismael and of other such infidels and reprobates Well though he write he knoweth not what we must take his meaning by that that his fellowes say a Greg Marti Discouery chap. 7. sect 6. that the Patriarchs and other iust men of the old Testament were in some third place of rest called Abrahams bosome or Limbus patrum till our Sauiour Christ descended thither deliuered them from thence So then not all soules but the soules of the iust were deliuered by Christs descending into hell But what is it the meaning of Christs descending into hell that he descended into a place of rest Surely M. Bishop will haue but very bad rest if he haue no better then is any where to be found in hell He vpbraideth vs with the improbability of diuers expositions made of this article but surely this is aboue all other a madde exposition to say that Christ descended into hell that is into Abrahams bosome into a place of rest Let him not presse vs with the authority of mens names for the iustification of it Saint Austin knew their names as well as he and they could not so much preuaile with him but that he freely professed that b August epist 99. Ne ipsos quidem inferos vspiam scripturarum locis in bonum appâ—llatos potuti reperire Quod si nusquam in diuinis authoritatibus legitur non vtique sinus ille Abrahae id est secretae cuiusdam quietis habitatio aliqua pars inferorum credenda est c. si in illum Abrahae sinum Christum mortuum venisse sancta scriptura dixisset non nominato inferuo eiusqÌ„ doloribus miror si quisquam ad inferos eum descendisse asserere auderet he could no where in Scripture finde hell spoken of or named in good part and saith that because it is not so read in any diuine authority therefore Abrahams bosome which is an habitation of quiet rest is not to be beleeued to be any part of hell And if the Scripture had said that Christ being dead went into Abrahams bosome not mentioning bell or the sorowes thereof I woonder if any man would dare thereupon to say that hee descended into hell So in another place he saith c Idem de Genes ad lit l. 12. c. 33. Illud me nondum invenisse confitetor inferos appellatos vbi iustorum anima requiesâ—â—nt c. Et ideo quomodo apud inferos eum Abrahae sinum credamus esse non video I doe not finde it any where called hell where the soules of iust men doe rest and I doe not see how we may beleeue that Abrahams bosome is in hell And this he obserueth out of the story of the Gospell where it is that we read of Abrahams bosome d Ibid. Videmus inferorum mentionem non esse factam in requie pauperis sed in supplicio diâ—itis We see that there is no mention made of hell in the rest of the poore man but in the punishment of the rich Thus strange it seemed to Saint Austin and vnprobable which now forsooth wee must take to be a very Catholike construction that Christ descended into hell that is to say into a place of rest But this placing of Abrahams bosome to be a part of hel was the deuice of Marcion the hereticke who borrowed it from the Poets dreame of the Elysian fields Tertullian therewith vpbraiding him that e Tertull. cont Marc. lib. 3. Vester Christus posi decursum vitae pocticetur apud inferos in sinu Abrahae refrigerium Et lib. 4. Mercedem refrigerij apud inferos determinat eis positam qui legi prophetis obedierint their Christ promised to the Iewes after life ended rest in hell in Abrahams bosome and did determine a reward of rest in hell for them that obeied the law and the Prophets So doth Origen bring in the Marcionite heretike alleaging that f Origen de recta in deum fide dialog 2. Ait in inferno Abraham fuisse non in regno caelorum Ex eo quòd illi cum diuite colloquium intercesserat simul fuisse intelligitur Abraham was in hell not in the kingdome of heauen For by that they talked one to the other it is vnderstood saith he that they were together But Origen answereth him that g Ibid. Ingentem hiatum qui nominatur non attendisti Medium enim illud inter caelum terram hiatum vocat he listeneth not to the great gulfe that is there said to be betwixt them which he expoundeth to be the middle space betwixt heauen and earth as importing that Abraham was in heauen Hee obserueth also that the rich man is said h Ibid. Erigens oculos suos tollere verò oculos in caelum visitatum est to lift vp his eies and men vse saith he to lift vp their eies to heauen The very same reasons Tertullian also vseth to shew that i Tertul. vt supra lib. 4. Aliud inferi vt puto aliud quoque Abrahae sinus Nam magnum â—it intercedere inter istas regiones profundum transitum vtrinque prohibere sed nec alleuasset diâ—eâ— oculos quidem de longinquo nisi in superiora Hell is one thing and Abrahams bosome is another because it is said that a great depthis betwixt those places and no passage betwixt the one and the ether and the rich man would not haue lifted vp his eies being far off but to a higher place He expoundeth it therefore to be the receptacle of the soules of the faithfull now departing where they enioy rest and peace till the time of the resurrection not in heauen as hee thinketh but yet higher than to be any part of hell Amisse indeed in that he excludeth it from being a part of heauen but yet destroying that Popish fancy whereby it is made a part of hell For we beleeue that the soules of the faithfull goe immediately to heauen and because in their departure they are said to goe to Abrahams bosome therefore we beleeue that Abrahams bosome is in heauen nothing being thereby imported but what Christ saith in the Gospell k Mat. 8.11 They shall come from the East and from the West and from the North and from the South and shall sit downe with Abraham and Isaac and Iacob in the kingdome of God So saith Origen that l Origen in Genes hom 11. Omnes sancti qui de quatuor terraepartibus veniunt in sinum Abrahae portantur ab Angelis all the Saints which come from the foure parts of the world are caried by the Angels into Abrahams bosome In like sort Saint Austin saith of Nebridius a faithfull man deceased m August Confess lib. 9.
affirmeth them hauing ended this warfare to goe into blessed rest and in his other words in the same very place might haue seene and in likelihood did see it that he placeth this blessed rest no otherwhere but with Christ in heauen Hee applieth generally a Cal. Instit l. 3. ca. 25. sect 6. De fidelibus loquens to the faithfull the words of the Apostle that b 2. Cor. 5.1 when this earthly house shall be dissolued wee haue a house or building in heauen Hee saith that c Nisi superstites essent animae corporibus quid est quod habet deum praesentem vbi fuerit à corpore separatum Nisi etiam animae corporibus exutae retinerent suam essentiam ac beatae gloriae capaces essent non dixisset Christus latroni Hodie mecum eris c. the soule separated from the body hath the presence of God that vnlesse the soules seuered from their bodies did still retaine their being and were capable of blissefull glorie Christ would not haue said to the theefe This day shalt thou be with me inparadise Hereupon he taxeth as well he might the infinite curiosities of the schoole-men in inquiring and disputing of the place and state the maner and degrees of heauenly glory as now it is and heereafter shall be and condemneth it as a point of rashnesse and folly further to search concerning things vnknowen to vs than God permiteth vs to know d Scriptura vbi dixit Christum illis praesentem esse eas recipere in Paraedisum vt consolationem percipiant reproborum verò animas cruciatus quales meritae sunt perpeti non vltra progreditur The Scripture saith he haning said that Christ is present with them meaning the faithfull soules before spoken of and doth receiue them into Paradise to receiue comfort and that the soules of the reprobate doe suffer the torments which they haue deserued goeth no further For conclusion he saith by and by after e Quum scriptura vbique iubeat pendere ab expectationae aduentus Christi gloriae coronam eousque differat contenti simus his finibus diuinitus nobis praescriptis animas piorum militiae labore perfunctas in beatam quietem concedere vbi cum foelici laetitia fruitionem promissae gloriae expectent atque ita omnia suspensa teneri donec Christus appareat redemptor Seeing the Scripture euery where biddeth vs to depend vpon the expectation of Christs comming and thither doth deferre the crowne of glory let vs conteine our selues within these bounds which God hath prescribed vnto vs that the soules of the godly hauing ended the labour of this warfare doe goe into blessed rest where with happy ioy they expect the fruition of the promised glory and so all things are holden in suspense vntill Christ our redeemer shall appeare By all which words it appeareth that although Caluin according Col. 3.3.4 1. Ioh. 3.2 1. Pet. 5.4 to the scriptures doe referre the full reuealing of the glory of the faithfull vnto the comming of Christ when the same both in soule and bodie shall be made manifest to the whole world yet that in the meane time hee denieth not but that their soules departed are receiued into Paradise into heauen and doe enioy blissefull glory blessed rest the presence of God the presence of Christ and therefore doth not exclude them from the ioies of heauen vnlesse Christ himselfe whose presence they enioy be excluded from heauen And wheras M. Bishop maketh him absolutely to say that all things are holden in suspence vntill the comming of Christ he leaudly falsifieth his words by leauing out the terme of limitation the same being thus set downe as hath beene said And that so all things are holden in suspence vntill Christs comming importing that these things acknowledged before expressed all things further are to vs holden in suspence vntill Christ shall come are therefore God not hauing reuealed the same and not to be curiously enquired of The summe of all which beleefe Caluin himselfe in another place hath briefely comprised thus that g Caluin adu Libertin ca. 22. Etsi fidelium animae simulac separatae sint à corporibus viuunt cum deo ac foelici regni gaudio potiuntur tamen perfecta omnium filiorum dei foelicitas vsque ad secundum Christi aduentum defertur albeit the soules of the faithfull so soone as they are separated from their bodies do liue with God and doe obteine the blessed ioy of the heauenly kingdome yet the perfect happinesse of all the children of God is deferred vntill the second comming of Christ Now what is there heere for blinde Bishop to dislike in captain Caluin but that his malice ouerruleth his wit and carrieth him as it were with a violent streame to condemne that which notwithstanding his owne iudgement and conscience doth approoue And if Caluin had beene of that minde yet M. Bishop might with the more fauour haue excused it for that Bellarmine driuen thereto by the testimonie of Pope Adrian doth confesse that Pope Iohn the two and twentieth was of that minde h Bell. de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 14. Reuera sensit animas non visuras deum nisi post resurrectionem that the soules of the faithfull shall not see God till after the resurrection But as he dealeth with Caluin so doth he also with Luther most maliciously and leaudly It is true that Luther writing vpon Ecclesiastes reteining as yet somewhat too much of the dregs of Popery speaketh heereof somewhat obscurely though not to that meaning as M. Bishop citeth him Vpon the words of the Preacher i Eccles 9.10 Whatsoeuer thy hand can doe doe it instantly for there is neither worke nor inuention nor knowledge nor wisedome in hell as he readeth whither thou goest he commenteth thus that k Luth. Eccl. 9. Alius locus quòd mortui nihil sentiant nulla enim inquit est ibicogitatio ars cognitio sapientia sensit ergò Solomon mortuos omninò dormire nihil prorsus sentire Iacent ibi mortui non numerantes dies vel annos sed excitati videbūtur sibi vix momentum dormiuisse the place sheweth that the dead perceiue nothing for there is there no cogitation arte knowledge wisedome Solomon therefore thought saith he that the dead doe sleepe and haue no sense of any thing The dead lie there not reckoning daies or yeeres but being raised vp they shall seeme to haue slept a verie little while Now in these words there is no ambiguitie as shall appeere by the other place because that which he saieth of sleeping and not perceiuing any thing hath reference onely to the affaires and doings of this life Onely his errour is that he construeth hell for which wee rather choose to reade the graue to be the place where the soules thus sleepe expounding it l Ibid. Insernus propriè me iudice significat illum abditum recessum in quo
is not to be beleeued because he was a Montanist Againe hee saith Å¿ Idem de verb. Dei interpret ca. 10. Constat quosdaÌ„ ex praecipuis corum non leuitèr in quibusdam lapsos It is certaine that some of the chiefe of the fathers haue greatly erred in some things This being so what other doth M. Bishop but play the Sycophants part in calumniating vs for disclaiming sometimes the opinions of some fathers when wee deale therein no otherwise than they themselues doe nor doe indeed dissent from them in so many things as they doe It hath hitherto God be thanked very well appeared that though sometimes we dislike the opinion of a father yet in all the questions that we haue handled the fathers haue yeelded more strength to vs than they haue done to them 21. But heere he maketh haste to acquaint the Reader with the most shamelesse pranke of all other in which hee hath shewed himselfe as shamelesse as he hath done in all the other In his epistle to the King he hath charged vs with the heresies of Vigilantius Aerius Iouinian It hath beene answered him in what sort and how farre we agree with these and what reason we haue for that we doe Heere like the cuckow he barely singeth ouer the same song againe and not heere onely but * Pag. 252.253 c. againe also towards the end of his booke he disprooueth not our answer he confuteth not our reasons but onely bableth that we prefer the most infamous condemned heretikes euen in the very points of their errours before the most iudicious learned and syncere Doctours of the Church For as the hackney that is accustomed to one way if he be put beyond or beside that way hath no pace at all euen so he hauing learned a forme to cry out against Iouinian Aerius and Vigilantius is very expert and ready in that but put him beyond that and he is dumbe and hath nothing more to say But I answer briefely that it skilleth not what or how meane they were We rest not our beleefe vpon any of them but only ioine with them where they hold that which God hath taught both vs and them We know it to be true which the Poet hath said that t Iuuenal Sape etiam stultus fuit opportunae locutus a foole many times speaketh a wise word which S. Austin saith and doubteth not thereof that u August de Anima cap. 1. Feri posse non ambigo vt aliquid imperito indocto cuipiam scire contingat quod aliquis doctus peritus ignorat it may befall to an ignorant and vnlearned man to know something which the skilfull and learned man is ignorant of And in a word as Hierom though Epiphanius had noted Aerius for an heretike for that he affirmed that by the law of God x Epiph. haeres 79. Quid est episcopus ad presbyteruns Nihil differt hic ab illo vnus enim est â—rdo vnus honor c. Bishops had no superiority ouer Priests but they were both equall and the same held that no reason for him to renounce therein the opinion of Aerius whereof y Hieron ad Euagr. Apostolus docet eosdem esse presbyteros quosepiscopoâ— in Tit. 1. Idem presbyter qui episcopus Nouerint episcopi se consuetudine magis quà m dispositionis dominicae veritate presbyteris esse maiores he thought himselfe by good reason rightly perswaded euen so though Hierome and Austin haue for some points taxed Iouinian and Vigilantius as heretikes and Epiphanius in another point Aerius yet is that no sufficient motiue to vs to forsake those opinions of Iouinian Aerius and Vigilantius so long as we haue warrant by the word of God and by good inducements of antiquity to be perswaded as they were And as Hierome held it no preiudice to him that Aerius otherwise was an Arian heretike because in this he condemned him though he agreed with him in the other euen so it is no preiudice to vs that either Aerius was an Arian or Iouinian and Vigilantius taught otherwise amisse because we professe to agree with them only in the truth but in what they taught against the truth are ready to condemne them Further I say nothing heere but refer the Reader to that that in my answer to his epistle I haue already said onely noting how vntruly he saith that I confesse in the same place that the conceit of the holinesse of virginity before the holinesse in marriage was by the whole court of Rome maintained at those daies whereas I shew that setting aside the Bishop of Rome both Clergy and Laity Nobles and others Monks and such as professed continency were in that behalfe aduerse to Hierome and did most scandalously take it that he should say that virginity was a holier estate than marriage was yea and gaue honour and countenance to Iouinian which I verily resolue they would neuer haue done so well am I perswaded of the church and City of Rome that then was if he had beene a man of so base and bad condition as Hierome in his choler reporteth him to haue beene As for his declamation heereupon following it is but idle stuffe and an empty flourish of his Romish Rhetoricke his tongue mightily outrunning his wit in talking of the poore miserable Protestants blindly bent to defend their owne errors of their consorting themselues with heretikes of likelihood that Austin Hierom and Epiphanius should see more than Iouinian Vigilantius and Aerius as if the Protestants built any thing vpon the sight and authority of any of these of my misapplying misconstruing corrupting and falsifying the Doctours sentences as Caluin saith the Libertines did the Scriptures of their being deceiued that thought I had beaten the Papists with their owne weapons of our catching hold onely of some broken sentences of the Fathers to astonish and deceiue the simple Reader All these are but words and we know his winde serueth him to giue words enow but how simply he maketh good his words appeareth by that that hath beene and shall be said 22. Hee commeth now to shew how reuerently I behaue my selfe towards the holy Scripture One example he will giue heere whereby the Reader may take scantling of the rest It is conteined in some words of mine in answer of the first section of his Epistle t Answer to the Epistle sect 1. pag. 6. This is the thing say I that M. Bishop laboureth for seeking with Elymas the sorcerer u Act. 13.10 To PERVERT THE STREIGHT VVAIES OF THE LORD and whereas his Maiestie as he confesseth hath made open and often profession of his vigilancie and care to aduance the diuine honour of our Sauiour Christ and his most sacred religion hee would in stead therof draw him to aduance the idoll x Dan. 11.38 MAVZZIM the god of Antichrist and to establish y 2. Pet. 2.1 DAMNABLE HERESIES by him PRIVILY BROVGHT IN
This deniall of a third place M. Higgons z Book 1. part 1. ch 2. § 4. num 10. acknowledgeth and noteth me in his margent for citing the places where it is denied but seeketh to auoid it by saying that Austin thereby onely denied against the Pelagians any third place of eternall rest heere vpon earth after the day of iudgement for children dying without baptisme for this is the briefe of the differences that hee hath there set downe But this will not serue his turne because Austin doth not meerely deny their third place but from the absolute denial of a third place inferreth that their third place cannot be a August de peccat mer. remiss l. 1. cap. 28. Non est vllus vlli medius loâ—us vt possit esse nisi cum diabolo qui non est cum Christo Hinc ipse dominus volens auferre de cordibus malè credentium istam nescio quam medietatem quam conantur quidam parunlis non baptizatis tribuere c. definitiuam protulit ad haec ora obstruenda sententiam vbi ait Qui mecum non est contra me est There is not any middle place for any man saith he that he may be but with the diuell that is not with Christ He addeth Heereupon the Lord himselfe also willing to take away from the hearts of misbeleeuers this I know not what middle place which some seeke to assigne to children vnbaptised hath to stop their mouthes pronounced a definitiue sentence where he saith He that is not with me is against mee There is then no middle place for infants vnbaptised because there is not after death any middle place for any man and therfore doth the Lord pronounce that definitiue sentence from which how M. Higgons will shift Purgatory I cannot well tell The other sentence is as plaine b August Hypognostic lib. 5. Da mihi praeter hunc alterum locum vbi vitae possit requies esse perennis PrimuÌ„ enim locum fides Catholicorum diuina authoritate credidit regnum essâ— coelorum c. Secundum Gehennam vbi omnis Apostata vel à fide Christi alienus aeterna supplicia experietur Tertium penitùs ignoramus imò nec esse in Scripturis Sanctis inuenimus Giue me beside this that is the kingdome of heauen any other place where there may be perpetuall rest of life For the first place the faith of catholick men by diuine authority haue beleeued to be the kingdome of heauen The second hell fire where euery Apostata and alien from the faith of Christ shall feele euerlasting punishments A third we are vtterly ignorant of yea wee finde by the holy Scriptures that there is none such Where we see that S. Austin taking in hand to refute the third place affirmed by the Pelagians distinguisheth generally how many places there be and resolueth that that third place of theirs cannot be because there is no third place Heauen and hell he saith he findeth in the Scriptures but third place he findeth none and therefore maketh vs confident against beleeuing any Purgatory because in the Scriptures we find none The Papists say they find it there but they say vntruely they finde it in their owne constructions forced vpon the Scripture but in the Scripture it selfe they finde it not All the places which they alleage haue their iust and perfect vse euen by the exposition of the fathers themselues without any Purgatorie to be inferred thereby 37. In the same chapter num 12. he toucheth me again for that wheras Austin reuerenceth Epiphanius as a holy man and famous in the Catholike faith it seemeth good to me to iustifie Aerius a damnable heretike against him But I reuerence Epiphanius as farre as Austin did or teacheth me to doe I acknowledge hee was a holy man and famous in the Catholike faith but yet I say of him as S. Austin saide of Ambrose another holy man and famous in the Catholike faith c August con Pelag. Cele lib. 1. cap. 43. Quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum doctuÌ„ virum nequaquam tamen authoritati Canonicae Scripturae comparandum Though he were a holy and learned man yet is he not to be compared to the authoritie of the Canonicall Scripture I dissent from Epiphanius as Austin himselfe did concerning fasting daies as I touched a little before who denieth that to be Apostolike tradition which Epiphanius affirmeth to be so I iustifie Aerius against Epiphanius in one point as in another point S. Hierome did as I haue shewed also d Sect. 21. before not reiecting a truth for that either an heretike hath affirmed it or a Catholike doctour hath denied it but therefore embracing it wheresoeuer I finde it because God hath taught it And although Aerius for Arianisme were iustly to be accounted a damnable heretike yet doe I not thinke that M. Higgons can make good his word which before hee hath giuen that for those matters wherein we approoue him there were beside Epiphanius and Austin many other that did condemne him Epiphanius indeed doth so and Austin professing to follow Epiphanius transcribeth the same from him but Philaster and Theodoret writing of heresies mention no such matter neither doe I thinke that M. Higgons can bring vs any father or story of those times that taxeth Aerius in that behalfe Yea I may not omit that which I pointed at before that when Dulcitius mooued the question to Austin e Aug. ad Dulcit quaest 2. Vtrum oblatio quae fit pro quiescentibus aliquid eorum conferat animabus c. Ad quod multi dicunt quòd si aliquis beneficij in hoc locus esse possit post mortem quantò magis sibi anima ferret ipsa refrigeria sua per se illic confitendo peccata quà m in eorum refrigerium ab alijs oblatio procuratur Whether the offering that is made for the dead doe auaile their soules any thing he setteth downe the opinion of many in that time concerning that point Many say to this matter that if heerein any good were to be done after death how much rather should the soule it selfe obtaine ease to it selfe by confession of sins there than that for the ease thereof an offering should be procured by other men which opinion hee would neuer haue set downe neither would Saint Austin haue let it goe without hard censure if it had beene then publikely taken for heresie so to thinke yea Dulcitius would neuer haue mooued the question thereof if Purgatory had been a knowen and vndoubted point of faith as M. Higgons would faine haue it thought to bee But this is not all that hee hath heere to blame me for for in the margent he chargeth me that I peruert the sense of Epiphanius as though the church had praied for the Saints c. If they did not so what is it then that Epiphanius reporteth Epiphanius reporteth saith he that when we make a memoriall of