Oracles of the Prophets the countenance of the Church is figured when at the first rising againe shee is renued into the ages of the moneth shee is hidden by the darknesse of the night and by little and little filling her hornes or right ouer against the Sunne rounding them doth shine with the light of cleere brightnesse The sixt assertion The false and malignant Church is oft time 〈◊〉 visible conspicuous and ample then the true Church and consequently eminent Visibility amplitude and splendor is no certaine note of the true Church The glorious face and outside of a Church which dazleth our aduersaries eyes was rather against Michea then for him all the Prophets prophecied c. It was rather against Eliah then for him for there were 450 Priests of Baal besides Câ—â—marims and hee took no notice in a manner of any seruant of God but himselfe It was rather against Ieremy then for him when all the Priests took counsell against him saying The law shall not depart from the Priest c. Nay the glorious outside and face of a Church was rather against Christ himselfe then for him All the chiefe Priests and Elders took counsell against Iesus Since Christs death to instance onely in one sort of Hereticks the Arrians vndoubtedly would haue carried the truth away by voyces and outward pomp for some hundreds of yeres if that were a safe triall for Saint Ierome complaineth Tunc vsiae nomen abolitum est tunc 〈◊〉 fidei damnatio conclamata est 〈…〉 Arrianum se esse miratus est Then the name of substance was abolished then the condemnation of the â—â—cene Creed was proclaimed the whole world sighed and maruelled that it became Arrian Vincentius putâ— theâ— case what was to be done Quando saith he Arrianorum venenuÌ„ non ià m portiunculam quandam sed pene orbem totum contaminauerat adeo vt prope cunctis Latini Sermonis Episcopis partim vi partim fraude deceptis caligo quaedam mentibus offunderetur When as the poyson of the Arrians did not infect a little portion but in a manner the whole world insomuch that almost all the Latine Bishops partly by force and partly by cunning were intrapped and had a kinde of mist cast before their eyes These things beeing so may we not iustly vpbraid the Papists as Gregory Nazianzen doth the Arrians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c Where are they now who vpbraid pouerty vnto vs and boast of their wealth who define the Church by multitude and despise the little flock of Christ who honour the sand and reproach the greater lights of heauen who treasure vp Check-stones and passe by Margarites The seauenth Assertion When there is a difference betweene the visible professors of Christianity and each party pretendeth it selfe to bee the true Church in opposition to the other the onely sure and infallible meanes to know which of the dissident parties are of the true Church is by trying their doctrine by Scripture To this touch-stone of truth the Prophet Esay directeth vs To the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this Word it is because there is no light in them And our blessed Sauiour Search the Scriptures for in them you think yee haue eternall life And S. Peter We haue also a more sure word of Prophesie vnto which you doe well if yee giue heed as to a light that shineth in a darke place By this rule the Bereans examined the doctrine of the Apostle searching the Scriptures daily whether those things were so Saint Austen best approoueth of this course to come to the knowledge of the true Church In Scripturis Canonicis requiramus Ecclesiam in the Canonicall Scriptures let vs search the Church And Non audiamus Haec dico Haec dicis sed audiamus 〈◊〉 dicit Dominus Sunt certi libri Dominici quorum authoritati vtrique consentimus ibi quaeramus Ecclesiam Let vs not heare I say this or Thou saist this but let vs heare This saith the Lord. There are certaine bookes of God to whose authority wee both consent there let vs seeke the Church And after much debating the matter hee concludeth the Chapter with these words Ergo in Scriptur is Canonic is eam requiramus therefore let vs seeke her the Church in the Canonicall Scriptures And Quisque nostrum non in iustitia sua sed in Scripturis quaerat Ecclesiam Aug. ep 48. Saint Basil directeth vs to the same course 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 With whomsoeuer doctrine agreeable to Scripture shall bee found the truth is alwaies to be adiudged to bee on their side To forbeare more allegations the learned Author of the imperfect work on Mathew hearing the name of S. Chrysostome deliuereth a firmer conclusion in formall and expresse tearmes and that seuerall times shewing that his iudgement was settled and resolued vpon it 〈…〉 modis â—stendebatur quae esset Ecclesia Christi et quae Gentilitas nunc autem nullo modo cognoscitur quae vera Ecclesia Christi nisi tantummodò per Scripturas quare quia omnia haec quae sunt proprie Christi in veritate habent et haereses illae in schemate similiter Ecclesiam similiter scripturas similiter baptismum similiter eucharistiam et caetera omnia demâ—m ipsum Christum Volens ergo quis cognoscere quae sit vera Christi Ecclesia vnde cognoscat in tanta confusione multitudinis nisi tantummodo per Scripturas Et pòst Qui ergò vult cognoscere quae sit vera Christi Ecclesia vnde cognoscat nisi tantummodò per Scripturaâ— Formerly it was shewed many waies what was the true Church of Christ and what was Gentilism but now it is knowne no other way which is the true Church of Christ but onely by the Scriptures Wherefore because all these things which properly belong vnto Christ in truth euen those heresies haue in shadow in like manner the Church in like manner the Scriptures in like manner Baptisme in like manner the Lords Supper and all other things finally Christ himselfe Hee therfore who is desirous to know which is the true Church of Christ whence should hee know it in such a great confusion of multitude but onely by the Scriptures And a little after Hee that will therefore know which is the true Church of Christ whence should hee know it but onely by the Scriptures It is obserued by those who follow the Law that when a Defendant excepts against the iudgement iurisdiction of the Court he certainely despaires of his cause in that Court. And what can wee interpret it in our aduersaries but distrust and despaire of their cause to detract as they doe from the perfection and except against the authority and sufficiency of Scripture for deciding all controuersies And heer I will be bold to turne the Iesuite Campions roring Canon against him and his fellowes Cùm multa sint quae aduersariorum in caâ—sa diffidentiam
I in my Argument nor you in your Answer vse those words 〈◊〉 aeterno Page 22. To that Syllogisme in the Conference viz. That Church whose faith is eternall and pâ—â—petuall and vnchanged is so visible as the Catholique Church ought to be and as the Popiâ—â— Church by M. Fisher is pretended to be But the faith of the Protestant Church is eternall perpetuall and vnchanged Ergo The Protestant Church is so visible as the Catholique Church ought to bee and the Popish Church is pretended by M. Fisher to bee You answer That the Maior is not vniuersally true for that there may be a Church or company who may haue inward faith eternall and vnchanged As for example A Church of Angels who for want of visible professors are not so visible as the Catholique Church ought to be Quid ad Rombum What is this instance to the purpose I dispute of the Church on earth you answer of the Church in heauen I dispute of faith you answer of vision I dispute of a Church succeeding in all Ages you answer of a Church in which there is no succeeding nor Ages I dispute of a Church visible in all Ages you answer of a Church visible in no Age. I dispute of noble Confessors Martyrs who haue sealed the profession of the Christian faith with their bloud you answer of immortall Spirits In a word I dispute of men named in good Authors and Histories you answer of Angels whose names are written in heauen and were neuer vpon visible Record except two or three named in the Scriptures Page 31. To those words of mine I neuer heard that the inference of the effect by the cause was transitio à genere in genus such was my Argument for faith in a beleeuer produceth profession and confession thereof You reply That M. Sweet 's Logick is not lesse to bee esteemed if hee had tearmed that 〈◊〉 to weet proouing the effect by the cause transitio à genere in genus for a cause as a cause an effect as an effect doe not onely differ specie but also genere and besides a proofe à priori and à posteriori are diuers kindes of proofes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I dispute of a transition à genere in genus in rebus you answer of a transition in notionibus I speake of a straying from the subject of the Question you answer of passing through diuers heads of Logick in proouing I speake of genus in Scientijs you answer of 〈◊〉 in the predicables or predicants so well in defence of M. Sweet you obserue M Sweets pretended Law of speaking nothing but to the purpose But certainely you saw not the But and somissed the mark reading M. Sweets Law without it thus Item 2. That nothing should be spoken to the purpose Euery Puney in Logick can tell you that the meaning of transitio à genere in genus is the proouing of a conclusion in one science by the principles of another distinct from it and no way subalternall to it As for example To demonstrate a conclusion in Physick by principles in Geometrie or to demonstrate a conclusion in naturall Philosophy out of a principle or principles in Morall Philosophy But if your interpretation of transitio à genere in genus should stand euery demonstration of the effect by the cause à priori or of the cause by the effect 〈◊〉 posteriori in the same Science should bee a transitio à genere in genus because as you say the cause as a cause and the effect as an effect differ genere for which ignorant Arguing as M. Sweet was prickt by D. Goad in the Conference so you M. Fisher for your more ignorant and grosse defence of it deserue to be sent to fustitudinas ferricrepinas Insulas vbi viuos homines mortui incursant boues Page 65. You alledge this for a reason why you refused to answer Christ his Apostles for that say you All disputation about particulars before the true Church were by her perpetuall Visibility or some such euident marke found out and knowne would haue beene fruitlesse and endlesse which was the reason why M. Fisher in another former conference had with a certaine Minister would not enter into any particulars vntill he had asked these generall Questions First what ground the Minister would stand vpon c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heer you bring-in by the head and eares a Conference of yours with a worthy Minister and an acute Disputant touching the merit of works What is this to the Visibility of the Protestant Church or a Catalogue of Names If this bee not transitio à genere in genus I am sure it is transitio à Quaestione in Quaestionem a vagring from one Question to another sufficiently distant neither was there any cause at all giuen you of this digression for I drew you not to dispute about any particulars but proceeded to prooue the generall Question proposed by your self to weet that The Protestant Church was so visible in the first Age that the Names of those that taught the Protestant faith might be produced viz. Christ his twelue Apostles Saint Paul and Ignatius to whom after you had giuen your Answer Whether they taught our faith or yours I would haue gone on in like manner in naming the Professors of the Protestant faith in all Ages Now then let the Reader iudge whether this your digression into a long tale of a conference of yours with a Minister touching merits were any way necessary or pertinent Page 68. 69 70. You alleage many Sayings out of Tertullian's golden Book of Prescriptions to prooue that Hereticks who reiected the authority of the Apostolicall and Mother Churches and refused also some Scriptures or peruerted the Text by additions and detractions should not be admitted to dispute with Orthodoxall Christians out of Scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The sentences indeed you cite are golden but you apply them most leadenly for what Protestant whom by a ridiculous 〈◊〉 principij or begging the Question you stile Hereticks what Protestant I say euer reiected the authority of the Apostolicall or Mother Churches as they were in the Primitiue Times much lesse either refused or peruerted any part of parcell of the Canonicall Scriptures by addition or detraction Wee attribute much more to the holy Scriptures and the ancient Mother-church of which Tertullian speaks who receiued the Originall of Scriptures from the Authors themselues then you do we willingly put our whole cause in their hands wee renounce any Article of faith which cannot be prooued to haue been held by the Apostles and their heires Tertullian speaks of Prooue that the Apostles or the Primitiue Churches immediatly founded by them held your Trent-faith or those twelue new Articles added by Pope Piuâ— in the end of that Councell and imposed vpon all Professors to sweare vnto and then I will acknowledge that the Romane Church hath a good title to the Scriptures And if we prooue not that we
Sweet It matters not You are no lawfull Interpreter of Scripture To which words as D. Featly was making a reply hee was recalled by the company to prosecute his main Argument Heer you may obserue by the way that M. Fisher saw well enough that M. Sweets instance of the thrice repeating the name Sanctus was very friuolous and impertinently brought to maintain their vain repeating the name Iesu so many score of times together in their Psalter and therfore hee let M. Sweet shift for himself and make good his instance if he were able for M. Fisher could not be ignorant that the Fathers generally obserue against the Arrians the mystery of the Trinity of Persons to be implied in the thrice repeating the word Sanctus If the Papists repeat the name Iesu to the like purpose as they must doo if they take that for their pattern will it not follow that forty times repeating the name Iesus implies that there are forty Persons in Iesu So well did M. Sweet keep his owne pretended law that none should speak any thing but to the purpose but because hee challenged to haue made such a law himself peradueÌ„ture he thought he might dispense with it 4. In the prosecution of the mayne Argument when Master Fisher being required to giue a direct and punctuall answer to some proposition in the Syllogisme digressed from the point and discoursed how an ignorant and vnlearned man might first come to the knowledge of the true Church and was checked by Doctor Featly saying This is not now to the purpose M. Chamberlane sitting by added The lesse to the purpose the better Would you haue Master Fisher speake to the purpose 5. In making way to the Induction when D. Featly was recalled by a new Answer of Master Fishers to some former Argument which Doctor Featly went about to refell the Earle of Warwick aduised him notwithstanding this interruption to proceed to his induction saying Master Fisher like a woman will haue the last word but it makes no matter let him answer what hee will wee presume his answers will bee but like his former 6. In propounding an Argument by an induction after this manner For the first age I alledge for Teachers of the Protestants Doctrine Christ his twelue Apostles Saint Paul and Ignatius for the secondage Iustine Martyr c. M. Fisher after hee had repeated the instance in the first age in these words In the first age you alledge Christ his twelue Apostles Saint Paul and Ignatius hee added Transeat name in the succeeding ages D. Featly You grant then Christ and his Apostles were Protestants M. Fisher. Will you slander me to my face What will you doâ— behinde my back D. Featly I slander you not The word transeat implies in my vnderstanding a concession if not then deny it and I will presently proue it But as for this word transeat though that wee made a transeat of it and let it passe in our relation yet his owne side haue taken speciall notice of it and indeed Master Fisher Lupum auribus tenet If by transeat he meant a concession or grant of the proposition wee desire no more of him if wee haue Christ and his Apostles on our side what neede wee more To auoyde this inconueâ—ience if hee interpret this transeat Let it passe as not worthy of his Answere or notice thus to slighten an Argument drawne from His authority whose words shall not passe though heauen and earth passe it cannot receiue a good construction But wee spare Master Fisher quia vapulat intus in poscenio because hee hath bin schooled at home Forsooth this Non bene crede mihi faciunt duo Sufficit vnus Surely many that hold Master Fisher to bee a great Gamaliel in the Romish Synagogue very much maruell that being so often prest and vrged yea and adiured also hee should yet still decline to make any Answer at all to the Opponents instance in Christ and his Apostles But the truth is he and his companions are of the bâ—ood of those whom Tertullian fitly tearmeth Lucifugas Scripturarum â—â—unners of the light Like Bats they keep a fluttering in the twi-light of supposed humane authorities and plausible glosses of reason but the broad day-light of Scripture they cannot endure Though in his Question he laid claime to all ages in which any Scholler according to common sense and naturall apprehension would vnderstand that hee meant Methodically to begin at the first age and thence prepetua serie to descend to the later as do the framers of their owne late extant Catalogues of Romane professors beginning with Christ Iesus Saint Peter Saint Paul Corinthians Ephesians Thessalonians c. ordine naturae et temporum yet hee preposterously would haue the Opponents begin first with the last age and so ascend vpwards Omnia naturae contraria legibus ibunt that so hee might the better lurke in the darke and muddy age next before Luther Which the Opponent iustly suspecting resolued to hold to the high way and fayre tracke of naturall method intending thereby to draw him into the cleare streame of Antiquity beginning at the fountaine in the first age But this Master Fisher would by no meanes indure hoping that hee might lye hid tanquam Sepia in atramento suo like the Scuttle-fish in her owne inke in those darke ages next or neere before Luther whereas being beaten vp into the cleerer streame of the first ages hee would easily bee discerned and soone caught 7. At the breaking vp of the Conference when Master Fisher desired to haue in his owne custody the common Schedule in which the principall Arguments and Answers of the Disputants were written by the common Notarie chosen by both parties and subscribed by their owne hands Doctor Featly withstood this motion saying Master Fisher you are not a fit man to bee trusted with this Authenticall writing for in a former conference betweene me and Master Musket whose Assistant you then were you tooke vpon you without any commission froÌ„ me or consent the office of a Notarie to take my Answeres and being vpon occasion pressed by the company to read what you had written after some tergiuersations you read it and thereupon were checked by the whole company for setting that downe for my Answeres which was neuer spoken by mee nor any thing like vnto it and that I charge you truly with this vndue dealing I appeale to some heer present viz. Doctor Goad and Master Wats who were present at that conference Heer Doctor Goad and Master Wats affirmed to Master Fishers face that vpon their knowledge Master Fisher was conuicted of vntrue setting downe Doctor Featlyes Answers in that conference and that vpon such conuiction Master Fisher was forced to correct what hee had formerly set downe Heerto Master Fisher much moued at such imputation answered M. Fisher. I call God to witnesse that if I did set downe any thing otherwise then the truth waâ— I did it not wittingly nor
loquuntur tum nihil aqué atque sauctorum maiest as biblioruÌ„ foedissimè violata 〈…〉 quid causa a fuit vt Euangelium Mathaei Acta resigerent Apostolica Desperatio c. Quid 〈◊〉 vt omnes Pauli repudiarent Epistolas Desperatiâ— I may adde following his tune Quid Piggiâ— Hosio Lyndano quid Stapletono Bellarmino c Whereas there are many things which proclaime our Aduersaries distrust of their cause so nothing so much as their profane violating of the Maiesty of holy Scripture What was the cause that the Manichees repeale the Gospell of Saint Mathew and the Acts of the Apostles Desperation What was the cause that the Ebionites reiected all the Epistles of Saint Paul Desperation I may goe on following the same note and tune and say What is the cause that Ludouicus cals the Scriptures Dead inke Desperation What is the cause that the Bishop of Poictiers stiles it in like maner rem inanimem et â—â—tam a thing without life and dumb Desperation What is the cause that Piggius Ecehius 〈◊〉 Pereonius Norris diuers others so much detract from the authority and sufficiency and obscure the excellencie of Scripture by terming it Nasum cereum Euangelium nigrum Theologiam atramentariam Lesbiam regulam a Nose of waxe a black Gospell inkie Diuinity a Lesbian rule Desperation They appeale from Scripture vnder pretence that it is an imperfect rule and dumbe Iudge and therefore refuse to be tryed by it in the points of difference betweene vs why because that if they should referre the ending of all Controuersies to Scripture and put themselues on Christ and his Apostles they soon knowe what would become of them and their cause The eightth Assertion The paucitie of right Beleeuers and obscurity and latencie of the true Church protesting against the corruption and idolatry in the later ages therof is most clearely foretold in Scripture First by our Sauiour When the Sonne of man commeth shall he finde faith on the earth Maldonat the Iesuite answereth Vix fideminueniet He shall scarce finde faith False Christs and false prophets shall arise and shall seduce many yea they shall do signes and wonders and seduce if it were possible the Elect. Secondly by Saint Paul the Spirit speaketh 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 exertè expresly that in the latter dayes some shall fall from the faith And in the second to the Thes. 1. There shall be a falling away first Thirdly by Saint Iohn After a thousand yeers Satan must bee loosed a little season And The taile of the Dragon drew the third part of the Starres of Heauen And All the world wondred after the Beast and they worshipped the Beast saying Who is like vnto the Beast c. All that dwell vpon the earth shall worship him whose names are not written in the Booke of Life c. All nations haue drunke of the wine of the wrath of her fornications c. And no maruell that the true seruants of God were reduced to such a paucity when the diuell and Antichrist set all their forces against them The Serpent casts out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman that hee might cause hâ—r to be caried away of the flood I might alledge many pregnant testimonies both out of the antient Fathers the learned Papists also of later time for the blacke and gloomie darke and dismall dayes of the Church vnder the last and greatest persecution by Antichrist But Saint Austens testimony is so cleere for the obscurity and latency of the Church that I need adde no more Ecclesia est Sol Luna et Stellae quando Sol obscurabitur et Luna non dabit lucem suam et Stellae cadent de coelo Ecclesia non apparebit impijs vltra modum saeuientibus The Church is Sunne Moone and Starres when the Sunne shall be darkned and the Moone shall not giue her light and the Starres shall fall from heauen the Church shall not appeare the wicked raging against her without all measure Mee thinks I heare our aduersaries say What makes this obseruation for the Protestant Church or faith I answer Much euery way It furnisheth vs both with a strong defensiue weapon and offensiue also The defensiue may be thus framed That Church which hath beene persecuted massacred wasted and driuen to great extremity and reduced to a small number resembleth the true Church as the state thereof is described in her later Ages But the Protestant Church especially since the 1000 yeere after Christ hath beene persecuted massacred wasted and driuen to great extremity and reduced to a small number Therefore the Protestant Church in this respect resembleth the true Church and consequently her obscurity maketh rather for her then against her We may also on this Anuil shape an offensiue weapon in this manner The true Church in the later Ages thereof must be in great distresse and driuen to a narrow compasse The Popish Church hath not beene so Therefore the Popish Church is not the true Church For they make eminent Visibility and splendour a note of their Church If they answer that their Church vnder heathen and Arrian Emperors hath beene grieuously persecuted I reply First that those who suffered Martyrdome in those daies were rather our Martyrs then theirs because they sealed with their bloud the truth of Scripture-Doctrine and not of Popish traditions or additions Secondly those blessed Martyrs suffered in the first Ages of the Church long before the 1000 yeere in which Satan was let loose but wee speake of the persecutions of the true Church in her latter Ages Therefore when the Papists insultingly demand of vs Where appeared your Church in the Ages before Luther the best way to represse their insolency is to put a crosse interrogatorie to them Where did your Church lie hid When did it fly into the Wildernesse for the space of 1260 dayes When did the Beast with seuuen heads and tenne hornes push at it In the raigne of what Popes did the red Dragon cast a flood of waters to drowne her As for the predecessors of our faith and Standard-bearers of our Religion it appeareth vpon their owne records how the Whore of Babylon embrued her hands and died her garments scarlet-red in the blood of them persecuting and executing them vnder the names of Berengarians Lyonists Henricians Petrobrusians Albingenses Waldenses Wickleuists Thaborites Hussites Lutherans Caluinists and Hugonots and the like Heere see the craft of Satan and malice of Antichrist and his Ministers they wasâ—e the flock of Christ with bloudy slaughters and require of vs Where are those of our brethren whom they haue slaine They traduce vs for paucity whom they by their massacres haue brought to so small a number They vpbraid vs with those maymes and skarres which themselues haue giuen vs and put vs to produce those euidences which themselues haue burned and made away as shall appeare more at large hereafter The ninth Assertion
lineis materiam clausimus inter quas congredimur According to which prescription D. Featly as soone as he receiued the Question from M. Fisher returned it in another paper in which he briefly stated it The fift rule is Saint Austens to obserue Logick Forme in Disputation Quid tu disputas si disputare non noueris Quid est aliud dialectica quam peritia disputandi Nonne etiam dialectice Christ us cum Iudaeis egit Why dost thou offer to dispute if thou knowest not how to dispute What is Logick but the Art of disputing Did not Christ dispute Logically with the Iewes And a little after Dialecticam nunquam doctrina Christiana forâ—â—dat The Christian doctrine neuer feareth Logick According to which prescription D. Featly desired that both the opponent respondent should bee tied to Logick Forme for nimble wits like Proteus will turne themselues into all Formes and vnlesse they bee held fast and in a sort forced and wrung with the knots of Logicall Arguments they wil neuer be brought to agnize the Truth Aristotle speaks of certain Organa mechanica artificiall Frames vsed in Greece quae teneros infantium artus coercerent ne in praua deflecterentur sed concinna illorum forma nihil foedum aspectu aut distortuÌ„ praeferret which frames serued to keep straight the limbs and joynts of the infants that they should not goe away but keep due proportion and a comely shape Such artificiall instruments are Logick Formes they serue to make vs to walk straight 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 neither treading inward nor outward in our discourses To dispute without Logick is to rule without a Ruler or draw a Circle without a Compasse or steer without a Card. In which respect although M. Fisher were very vnwilling to be bound to his Logicall behauiour yet D. Featly had great reason to require it of him because he bound himself to it proposing all his Arguments in Logick Form and disposing them in Logick Method premising Arguments à priori before his Argument à posteriori and Syllogismes before his Induction beginning at the top in the first Age and descending to the later according to the order of time nature dignity The most cunning Work-man that euer wrought with the tools of naturall wit forceth all Arguments into two kindes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or reprehensorie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or demonstratiue Elencticall or reprehensiue driue at an Aduersary Dicticall or demonstratiue aime at a Thesis or Position of our owne The former sort serue to beat downe an enemies weapons on his owne head the later to make good our owne ground The former may not vnfitly be called 〈◊〉 Arguments the later Simply and directly proouing D. Featly in this Disputation made vse of both first of Elencticall Arguments to discouer the weaknes of his Aduersaries and then of Dicticall to shew the strength of the Protestants cause and the Visibility of their Church in all Ages The first Argument of the former sort was couched in these words Although divine and infallible faith is not built vpon deduction out of humane History Which may be thus propounded at large Whosoeuer propoundeth such a Question in which he requireth a conclusion of faith to be prooued out of meer humane Testimonies and Records betraieth his grosse ignorance in Diuinity But M. Fisher propoundeth a Question in which he requireth a conclusion of faith to be prooued out of meer humane Histories and Records Therefore M. Fisher betraieth his grosse ignorance in Diuinity The Maior or first Proposition was prooued by Bellarmine's confession Historiae humanae faciunt tantùm fidem humanam cui subesse potest falsum Humane Stories and Records beget onely an humane faith or rather credulity subject to error And it may bee more strongly confirmed by the testimony of Tertullian Aliunde suadere possunt de rebus fidei nisi ex Literis fidei Can they otherwise perswade in matters of faith than out of the Writ of faith And Saint Augustine Solis Canonicis debeo absolutum sine vlla recusatione consensum I owe absolute consent without any refusall onely to the Canonicall Scriptures The effect cannot exceed the cause nor the conclusion both the premises and therefore wee cannot build a diuine and infallible conclusion such are all conclusions de fide vpon meer humane testimonies which are not of infallible truth All other humane Histories come short of the Apocryphall Books of Scripture for you rank them with the Canonicall Scriptures and we giue them the next place to them yet the testimonies out of the Apocryphal of Scripture may not be alleaged to ground any conclusion of faith vpon them as Ruffinus affirms in expresse words Quae omniae legi quidem in Ecclesiis volucrunt non tamen proferri ad authoritatem ex his fidei confirmandam All which Books they would haue read in the Churches but not be produced to establish faith out of them The Minor or Assumption is thus prooued The perpetuall Visibility of the Church is a conclusion of faith euidently grounded as is confessed on Christ's promise in Scripture But M. Fisher requireth in his Question the perpetuall Visibility of the Church to be proued out of meer humane Authors and Stories expresly excluding Scripture Therefore M. Fisher propoundeth a Question in which he requireth a conclusion of faith to be prooued out of meer humane Histories and Records The second Elencticall or reprehensiue Argument was couched in these words Although this Question be grounded on vncertain and false sâ—pposals c. Which may be thus propounded at large That Question which is grounded vpon an euident false supposall needeth not to bee discussed but ought rather to be exploded But M. Fishers Question is grounded vpon an euident false supposall Therefore M. Fishers Question needeth not to be discussed but ought rather to bee exploded The Maior or first Proposition is euident in it self for to such a Question there needeth no other Answer to be giuen but simply to deny the supposall The Minor or second Proposition was thus proued First if the names of all Professors are not nor euer were vpon Record then M. Fishers supposall is false viz. that A Protestant Church could not haue been visible in former ages vnlesse the names of all visible professors can now bee shewed But all visible professors names are not nor euer were on record as it is certaine and confessed by A. C. p. 33. Therefore Master Fishers supposall is false viz. that A Protestant Church could not haue been visible in former ages vnlesse the names of those visible Professors could be shewed Secondly if all ancient Records are not now extant then it is no good Argument to say The names of visible Protestants in all ages cannot now bee shewed vpon Record therefore they were neuer vpon Record But all ancient Records are not now extant Therefore it is no good Argument to say that because the names of
some outward profession by which it is made visible or sensible doth not sufficiently make a man to be a member of the visible Church It is a true rule in Philosophy Vehemens sensibile corrumpit sensum the bright light of a Demonstration so buzzardeth you that you see not where you are nor knowe what you are about I am so farre from affirming that inward faith without outward profession maketh a visible member of Christs Church that from inward faith I inferre necessarily ex consequenti outward profession which as I sayd in the Conference makes a member of the visible Church Doo you grant the consequence or deny it If you grant it my Argument proceedeth if you deny it confirmabit pro me vester Aristoteles your great Clerke Cardinall Bellarmine makes good the consequence in this manner Qui non confitentur fidem sed eâ in corde retentâ exteriùs profitentur perfidiam et idololatriam non sunt boni nec saluantur cùm ad Roman 10. dicat Apostolus Corde creditur ad iustitiam ore autem fit confessio ad salutem et Mat. 10. Omnis qui negauerit me coram hominibus c. They are not good men nor shall bee saued who do not confesse the faith but keeping it in their hearts outwardly professe perfidiousnesse and idolatry For the Apostle Rom. 10. saith With the heart man beleeueth to righteousnes but with the tongue man confesseth to saluation And Mathew 10. Whosoeuer denieth me before men him wil I deny before my Father which is in heauen Let Master Fisher therefore looke back vpon my Argument and demonstrate to me though à posteriori what Academicall learning taught him to deny it to bee a demonstration à priori The Protestant Relation Paragraph the ninth touching a testimony alleaged by Master Fisher out of Doctor Field Doctor Featly That Church whose faith c. But the faith of the Protestant Church is the Primitiue Catholick faith once giuen to the Saints Ergo. M. Fisher. I answer the Minor If this Proposition bee taken simply in it selfe I absolutely deny it but if this proposition bee considered as it must bee as related to the first Question and the end thereof I further adde that it is not pertinent to that end for which the whole Dispute was intended to weet to shew to those who are not able by their owne ability to finde out the infallible faith necessary to saluation without learning it of the true visible Church of Christ and consequently the Visibility of the Church is first to bee shewed before the truth of Doctrine in particular shall be shewed D. Featly First what speake you of those who are not able by their owne ability to finde out faith Is any man able by his owne ability without the help of diuine grace Secondly what helpeth the Visibility to confirme the truth of the Church Visibility indeed prooues a Church but not the true Church Heere M. Fisher alleaged some words out of D. Field of the Church supposing thereby to iustifie his former Answer Whereunto D. Featly promised Answer should bee made when it came to their turne to answer now hee was by order to oppose M. Fisher. Master FISHER his Answer These words either were not spoken or M. Fisher did not regard them beeing in the midst of his Answer in which he went on shewing the necessity of a visible Church by a saying of D. Fields viz. Seeing the controuersies of Religion at this day are so many in number and so intricate in nature that few haue time and leasure fewer strength of wit and vnderstanding to examine them what remaineth for men desirous of satisfaction in things of such consequence but diligently to seeke out which among all the Societies of men in the world is that Spouse of Christ the Church of the liuing God which is the pillar of the Truth that so they may embrace her Communion follow her direction and rest in her Iudgement M. Fisher therefore I say beeing busily speaking this did not regard what D. Featly did then say but might easily haue answered first that he neuer meant that any were able of themselues without help of Gods grace to attaine the true faith which hindreth not but that some may haue that ability of wit and learning by which they can better examine controuersies of faith then those that want these abilities Secondly although Visibility alone doe not prooue the true Church yet it supposing Gods promises that the true Church shall be alwaies visible much helpeth and want of Visibility in any one Age prooueth a company not to bee the true Church Doctor FEATLY'S Reply This parcell of your Answer containeth in it an allegation out of D. Field and an alleuiation or mitigation of a speech of yours sauouring of Pelagianisme To your allegation out of D. Field I answer Mitte quod scio Die quod rogo D. Fields speech I acknowledge which is very pertinent to his end but nothing to yours that it is requisite for all Christians especially the weaker to fly to the Church and hide themselues vnder her wings to preserue them from the danger of Romish Kites as D. Field prudently obserueth so no Protestant to my knowledge denieth Our Nouices and Catechumeni are taught as to honor God their Father so also the Church their Mother Now because the Whore of Babylon beareth her selfe as if shee were the Spouse of Christ and true Mother of all Christians it is most behoouefull to all those that haue care of the health of their soules to distinguish their true Mother from a false harlot the sincere milke and wholsome brests of the one from the poysoned dugs of the other to which end D. Fields Treatise of the Church is a singular help which when I reade mee thinks I see that strong wrestler Iritarius so much innobled by Pliny qui rectos â—t transuersos celatim toto còrpore habuit neruos who had double sinnewes running acrosse ouer all his body so able so sinewie a Writer is D. Field who hauing well traced true antiquity doth in that whole Treatise take vp your owne weapons and conquereth you with them hee takes away your strongest harnesse in which you trust I meane the Catholique Church proouing it to bee ours not yours To the authority of Scriptures which I here beginne at hee addeth the consent of the Church of the liuing God the pillar of truth in whose determination and Communion both wee and you are to rest But doe you M. Fisher in earnest or with mentall reseruation appeale to D. Fields iudgement Me thinks you draw the latch as if you meant to enter into the penetralia Clozet of that work of the Church If you bee willing so to doe I will leade you into the Entrie Turne me but the page ouer you shall finde before the circuit of the sentence alleaged by you be ended a Writ of Error sued against that Church which wil needs be the Mistresse and