materiall weight The intrinsecall valiew of some articles may infer more of necessity and obligation to an explicit beleef and practis but the least and smallest points do wth as much right as the greatest exclude a positiv misbeleef I am not bound to know or practis all things of the churches doctrin but I am bound not to disallow condemn or reject any of her traditionall Christianity has been equally handed from age to age unto us He that formally rejects any thing of this as fals doth vertually deny all the rest sith one and the same veracity deliverd all No mans privat reason invented any part of my beleef and therfor no mans reason can reject it Nay the highest points ar oftimes most contingent and consequently the least capable of a proof as Gods incarnation passion and resurrection and if mans conceits be once permitted to intermedle determin of the lesser or greater probability of points and cast away at his pleasur what himself thinks unlikly he will undoutedly go on from one negation to another till all be overthrown It may chance that in discoursing I may say somtime that all the articles of our Catholik faith be taken out of Scriptur wherin they be implicitly contained But in this I do but speak wth the vulgar and according to the capacity of hearers and t is indeed true in this sens for that all Catholik beleef is conformable to those sacred writings But in very truth to speak with wise men as well as we do think and ever shall beleev wth them the Scripturs themselvs those I mean principally wch make up the new Testament were drawn by the rule of our traditionall doctrin explicit faith and not our explicit faith gathered out of them This may appear by part of my former discours wherein I declared that the penning of Scripturs was meer accidentall and casuall and that all our traditionall faith was more ancient than Scriptur and altogether independent of it So that Scriptur and tradition go indeed hand in hand together as a joint rule of faith yet so as that Scriptur gives tradition the right hand as being its elder and judg of it self aswell as as cojudg wth it of all other doctrins For both Gospells and Epistles written in Apostles name were so far approved or rejected by the Church however they came equally armed wth Apostolicall names prefixt before them as they were found consonant or dissonant to the churches tradition For ther were more Gospells written than the four we hav and far more Epistles than thos the church admitted to her cannon And this is the reason why the Apostles themselvs and Disciples met together to try whether the preachings and writings of all their missionaries were punctually conformable to the tradition they had received from wch meeting S. Paul himself though an Apostle not of men neither by man but by Jesus Christ and God the Father Gal. 1.1 Yet would he not be exempted from that meeting After three years saith he I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter and abode wth him fifteen dayes Gal. 1.18 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem wth Barnabas and took Titus wth me also And I went up by revelation and comunicated unto them that Gospell wch I preach among the Gentiles but privatly to them wch wer of reputation least by any means I should run or had run in vain Gal. 2.1.2 By wch I think it may be gathered that the church is above the Scriptur and of greater autority than either Paul or Barnabas or any wtsoever single man and member of the Church sith she judges every ones doctrin to the approbation or rejection of it For a judg is more noble than the thing wch is subject to his censur the rule than the thing examined and ruled by it and to giv an approbation is in that formality more excellent than to receiv it Neither was ever any generall councell cald together to teach the church her doctrin But upon the rising of heresys judging by the rule of their tradition the Prelats in councell confirmd the Catholiks in the way they found them in and declared against hereticall innovations that they might desist from further commotion This rule of tradition found in the hands practis of Christians disperst over the earth left them by their forfathers could not fail so long as it was found universally agreeing in the whole Catholik body wch is animated by the spirit of infallibility especially being strengthened by testimony of Apostolicall writings wch were nothing but a part of the churches tradition coppied out or the fathers that succeeded them or other monuments that were yet remaining amongst them As for example the Christians found an injunction of praying for the dead upon the very wals windows gravstones and monuments of their deceased forfathers commended also unto them both by teachers their living books and by books their dead teachers and all children found their parents in the beleef and practice of it And therfor it was concluded that it could be no other than as it was thē esteemd an article of pure Christianity sith the whol body of Christians then present held it so their forgoers and fathers deliverd it sacred Scriptures sufficiently insinuated it Catholik writings and monuments confirmd and comended it unto them So that Madam that piece of popery you would take from me being a part of this Catholik tradition will be as hardly wrested from me as the Gospell it selfe wch the same tradition has deliverd as a coppy conformable for so much as it is unto it selfe the first and universall rule of faith by wch pape himselfe and all generall councells are guided so subject unto it that they can act nothing against it as may appear by the proceedings of the Catholik church from its very first birth and uprising unto this present day Pope Iohn the 22d. a learned man much given to reading found in many places of the Greek and Latin fathers as also in texts of sacred Scriptur as he conceived that the souls of Christians deceased went released out of purgatory thence into some place of repose on this side heaven and eternall bliss where they expected the consummation of their number that all the Catholik body might at the end of the world enter paradis together This opinion by the multitud of autoritys and arguments appeard unto him so probable that he sent it to some Christian Universitys to have their judgment if that were not indeed Christian beleef But they rose up against it and rejected it as dissonant to tradition For the Pape tho he be Overseer of the whole church yet being but one single man he cannot of himself discern the universality of a tradition so well as the whole Catholik body may do and therfor he never defines faith but with that Body conciliarly assembled and if himself i th interim should light upon an opinion how probable soever it
will or no printing and preaching presse and pulpet Mr Iohn an oaks Mr Prinne cannot utter any thing but truth Innovations papists do nothing else but make innovations they cannot eat or drink or sleep but the must do it and mischief is their very life LA. God mend all SECOND DIALOGUE LA. I have Sr Harry brought you here again your souls phesitian to understand the symptoms of your diseas and apply an agreeable remedy therunto KN. I shall Madam as well as I may both declar my sicknes and respectfully receiv his remedy LA. Com doctour you look blith upon t to day I take it for a good sign VIC And I am glad for sooth to see my husband cherfull for sadnes as it is written dries up the bones Pro. 17. MI. I bring you good news Sr Harry The work of reformation we perswade you unto is as easily effected as t is to cast of a heavy cloack in a burning midsommers day All popish practises as I in order shall name them to you do but you in the same method reject them and you shall in one half hour becom a Protestant in three quarters a Presbyterian in a whol howre an Independent and so be reformed at your leysur and wth eas KN. You say not all this while what shall guid me in this action MIN. The word of God that guides you Sr to the will of God KN. The means and end of his motion being coincident a man may well hope for an undisturbd tranquillity in the period MIN. Wt can disturb you Sr being built upon the rock of the bible wth more or les hold thereon according to the natur of the reformation KN. Wch reformation has the best hold MIN. Let them look to that I le not meddle wth those disputes KN. I have both read and heard of the rock of the Church but the rock of the bible you are the first man I know ever used the phrase MIN. The Church and her doctrin be all one the Churches doctrin and scriptur is the same and so the rock of the church and rock of the bible cannot be two severall things VIC Well said sweet heart This is now a little above me But so it is written The husband is above his wife and she shall be under and subject to him Gen. 3. MIN. The summe of all is Betake your self to the pure scripture And t is enough KN. Ther is much talk of Scriptur and all the sectaries have ever risen tho never so many or never so opposit one to another have still pretended it nay the devill urged his temptation wth a scriptum est Matt. 4. so that I feare the proposall of this either means or rest will prove but wast of time Give me leav to tell you that the messenger of the Gospell of peace who by a mission from pope Eleutherius converted the Brittons from paynisme to Christian faith in the second age of the church and the other from pope Gregorius who reduced the Saxes or English in the fift gave them all their religion as well explicitly in all the articles of their Christian faith as implicitly in the bible they deliverd into their hands wherin those articles by incidentall occasion lay casually coucht Now to take away all those explicite articles drest and prepared allready to our hands and give us the bible is the same thing as to take from men all the gold and silver already coined wth so much care and industry of princes and show them a mine whence such things may be digd wthout affording eyther work men skilfull in the art or instruments for the purpos Imagin in such a case wt disorder and confusion would happen when thousands of people are gatherd together about a mountain none verst in digging or fitted wth instruments for it none accustomed to the hollowes of deep earth none skild in finding out the vein none expert in discerning the oare or to melt it into bullion or stamp it into coin And yet all of them equally conceyted as undertaking ignorance uses to be and indifferently judging and condemning the works of each other It cannot otherwise happen in such a case but that some should tumble into precipices some be somtherd in the earth below some after much toil bring forth a handfull of clodded earth lead or iron oare and perhaps a slat or peble in the stead of mettall and if haply any one meet wth the right he will either not heed it as not appearing to be such or loose it in the allay melting or stamp In fine where so much curiosity and art is required in the manifold degrees of procedur yet none had by any and profest by all to the disparagement of one another wt can result from such an attempt but disorder nois confusion and hazard emulation quarrell amongst themselves Nov can they ever effect any thing to the generall agreement liking of all or repair the coin that is destroyd This is in all points our very condition when the Christian articles of faith wrougt out and stampt for us and deliverd us by our primitiv pastours according as they had received them from Jesus Christ the prime Inventour and Work-man of our faith are principitously annuld and the Bible put in mens hands to dig out from thence by their own skill and industry the results of their religion Nay the case here is so much the more desperat in that the common people wth the tradition of the Bible receiv this caution from the reformers that they take heed of such and such abrogated articles of popery wch as they do ever and anon appear in the Scripturs they hav to peruse so are they indeed the very pith and marrow of that sacred Book and the golden metall they are onely to seek for So that being left unto their own shallow judgments if it were then improbable they should ever light upon the whol sincere truth of good now being adviced and prejudiced against it altho they should happly light upon it t is impossible wth that prejudice they should ever embrace and adhere unto it That the articles of Catholik religion abrogated by reformers were all stampt out for us by our primitiv Pastours and have gon currant in the whol Christian world from the beginning to this day hath been proved a hundred times over and over by learned Catholik divines both for the generall in each particular And that it is an impious tiranny to take them all away and put people to seek new out of the Bible I think it will easily appear to an understanding man if he do but consider the way-wardnes of mans will prone to evill and averst to good such especially as is annext to bitternes and pains the fallacy of his fansy and weaknes of his understanding wch we cannot but perceiv to fail even in things that be in our very senses and that both by deficiency and errour both by want of apprehension and
observation wch I noted at times in my own privat reading never before taken notice of by any LA. So much the better for new things do excite attention VIC First you know that the Papish church sends forth her Priests and Religious to reduce nations from paganism and conveigh their faith up and down the World contrary to expres Scriptur Hast thou faith have it to thy self Rom. 14.21 II. Christ sayeth When thou dost fast anoint thy head wash thy face Math. 6.17 Papists never observe this nor do they think themselves bound in Lent ember other fasting days to put painting or black patches on otheir face to curl and powder their hayr anoint their head with jessamy butter spiknard other sweet ointments but the Gospell is neglected by them wthout any fear or conscience at all III. They hold that no body should forsake their religion directly contrary to Gods will The Spirit saith expresly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith 1. Tim. 4.1 God sayes some shal they say they shall not and by their good will they would let no body do it IV. They hold that the virgin Mary was taken up soul and body into heaven and would perswade us we shall be so too yet truth says that flesh and blood cannot in herit the Kingdom of heaven 1. Co. 15. V. They will tell you punctually on what day of the month Easter Christmas or any holiday happens Of such t is written Ye observ days and months and times and years I am afraid of you least I have bestowed labour in vain Gal. 4.10 VI. Such of them as be strong and healthy fast in Lent if any be sickly he eats flesh contrary to wt is writtē He that is weak let him eat herbs Ro. 14.2 VII T is written If thine enemy hunger feed him if he thirst give him drink Rom. 12.20 here the Papists commit two errours first they hold that a man may give both meat and drink to one that is hungry secondly they will do this not onely to their enemyes but neighbours and friends VIII They bring the Virgin Marys Pictur into the church wth a child in her arms tho they cannot but know that she stiles herself the handmayd of the Lord and t is written Cast out the Bondwoman her son Gal. 4.30 IX Papists will have the church forsooth to teach us our Religion and faith But it is written Wo unto him that saith unto the wood Awake and to the dumb stone Arise it shall teach Hab. 2.19 Is the church any thing but wood and stone T is flat idolatry thus to worship wood and stone and the works of mens hands Wo unto them for it X. They teach that righteousnes pleases God sin displeases wher as indeed they are both equally reprovable When the comforter is come he will reprove the world of sin and of righteousnes Io. 16.8 XI You know Madam we sit in our pews all service and Sermon time wthout uttering word nor can any discern our lips to stir all the while but the Papist women as soon as they enter their churches down they fal on their knees so long as they remain there patter forth prayers you may see hundreds of their lips moving together somtimes you may hear them cry Jesu Jesu I dare swear they speak in the church their religion teaches them to do it contrary to what is written It is a shame for women to speak in the church Cor. 14.34 XII They hold that both prodigality covetousnes in respect of our own goods fornicatiō leache ry in regard of our own bodys is unlawfull contrary to expres Scriptur Is it not lawful for me to do what I will wth mine own Mat. 20.15 XII They hold that they abstain from all kind of flesh in Lēt yet they eat fish c. not understāding the Scriptur Ther is one kind of flesh of men another of beasts another of fishes another of birds Co. 15.39 VIC XIII LA. Nay thirteenthly fourteenthly be words too long we have not time to proceed sweet mistres you hear I am cald VIC Many are called but few ar chosen saith the Scriptur Give me leav but to say over my nine and thirty articles LA. They will serv for good discours at table how come they to be so many VIC Articles against popery can never be more or les than nine and thirty K. James could have made his up to forty if he had pleasd but they must be no more than nine and thirty nor yet no les according as t is written Of the Iewes receivd I forty stripes save one 2. Cor. 11.24 LA. You are so witty VIC A parsons wise must needs be witty as t is written He that walks wth a wise man shall be wise Prov. 13.20 It should be she that walks but the Scriptur is compendious and somtimes leavs out a letter nay somtimes a whol syllable as in that saying God made man upright Eccl. 7.29 Ther man is set for woman for t is wel enough known that Adam had a stitch in his side and so went up and down stooping LA. Let us carry in your nine and thirty articles to the table VIC For S. Harry now and then to bite upon according as t is written man livs not by bread alone LA. Enough enough VIC So indeed it is written Luc. 22.38 Satis est It is enough FINIS
scandalous sinners and obstinate Hereticks calling them the censurs of Antichrist not heeding that S. Paul himselfe practised it I thought good saith he to deliver him up to Satan that his Spirit might be safe 1. Cor. 5. IX Finally all Christian buriall in holy ground the said Waldenses contemned as impertinent and vain These be the extravagant opinions concerning Temples As for Purgatory I. Some Greeks and Armenians avoucht ther is no such place wherin soules after their separation are purgd from dregs contracted in the body But the councell of Florence under pope Eugenius the fourth confirmd the contrary Catholik doctrin II. Luther afterward allthough he held Purgatory yet he had three errours concerning it first he taught that souls there might themselvs either merit or demerit again that a soul there was not certain of his salvation thirdly that a soul ther doth sin so long as it abhors those pains and seeketh rest The same autority from whence he had the beleef of purgatory might if he had listed have conserved him from these misbeleefs concerning it III. That almsdeeds prayers pennances and Sacrifices made by the living for the dead and souls in purgatory do nothing at all avail for their releasment was the heresy and errour first of Aerius then of the Armenians then of the Albigenses then of the Waldenses and lastly of Luther But it is confuted by S. Austin S. Gregory Theophylact and S. Chrysostome And four councells have defined against it Carthaginense quartum c. 95. Valense c. 4. decr Toletanum c. 22. and Florentinum for the union of the Greeks under pope Eugenius the fourth As for Hell I. Almaricus stifly denied it affirming there was no other hell but onely a mans owne conscience guilty of sin The Albanenses said that the punishments of hell were no other than what we suffer in this world Hermannus Risswick wthout any exposition denied any such thing as hell at all II. Origen taught that the pains of hell were not to be eternall Both these fansies are against Gospell and rejected by the councell of Lateran under pope Innocent the third Heaven the place of eternall bliss I make no doubt but that many men born Christians if they fell into heresys came at length to that Atheism as to deny it sith I meet wth so many here in England who deride it as a fiction But I have not read of any in authentick authours who did so though concerning the resurrection unto that bliss and finall beatitud many are said to have held erroneously As for Resurrection ther have been at times five erroneous opinions 1. The sadducees amongst the Jewes and among the Christians first Simon Magus then Valentin Apelles Marcus and Cerdon denied all resurrection of the flesh Against these writes S. Paul 1 Cor. 15. II. Eutichius Byshop of Constantinople taught that the body after its resurrection should be invisible and unpalpable S. Gregory not then Pope sent thither embassadour from the Apostolick sea confuted him openly before Tiberius Constantin then emperour so that Tiberius caused Eutichius his book to be burnt III. Origen said that our bodies after resurrection should be still mortall and after many ages fall to dust never to rise more Expresly against Scriptur wher t is said that mortall shall put on imortality 1 Cor. 15. VI. The Armenians defended that all should rise again in mans sex But if this had been true doctrin thē our Lord by saying so had easlier answered the Sadduces argument than by saying as he did that none should marry but they shall all be as the Angels of God Math. 22. Lastly the same Armenians affirmd that our Lord rose not upon sunday but on the Saturday before Me thinks it should be a hard task for them to show how he rose the third day sith he died on Fryday As for Beatitude 1. the Armenians and after them Petrus Abailardus a French man in the time of Pape Innocent the second then Arnaldus Brixiensis from whence perhaps came those hereticks Arnaldistae excomunicated yearly at Rome in caena Domini and lastly Almaricus affirmed that the blessed in heaven do not see Gods essence but behold him in his creatures S. Paul is contrary to these Now we see by a mirrour in an enigm then we shal see face to face 1 Cor. 13. II. Cerinthus would have heavenly beatitude to consist in the delights of the flesh and that Christs kingdom after the resurrection should be earthly wch errour he drew from some carnall Jews being himself contemporary wth S. John the Apostle But t is gainsayed by S. Paul The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink but justice and peace and joy in the holy Ghost Rom. 14. Papias Byshop of Hierapolis did indeed teach that Christ after the general resurrection should raign upon earth wth his faithfull retinue who had been sufferers here a thousand years drawn to that opinion by such a speech in Apocalips c. 20. and after him Irneus Apollinaris Lactantius Victorius Pictavensis But they held not the same as Cerinthus nor were pertinacious in their opinion against the church wch I think expounds that place of the blesseds reign wth Christ according to the soul from the howr of death to the generall judgment for there t is added Haec est resurrectio prima this is the first resurrection namely of the soul after the bodies death III. Origen taught that neither misery nor beatitude should be eternall for he conceived certain alternations or vicissitudes of both so that the blessed souls after som years should return to mortal bodys and thence be called again to beatitude in a kind of circle But all Scripture is against this fansy Between us and you is a great Chaos so that such as would pass from hence to you cannot c. Luk. 16. IV. That most perfect finall beatitude is to be had in this life was one of the errours of the Bogards and Beguins religious men and women in Germany censured as I remember in the councell of Vienna under Pape Clement the fift The Bogards suffred for their obstinacy whereat the women afrighted submitted themselvs and remain to this day living honestly in a society wthout emission of any vow so that when they pleas they may go forth and marry V. The same partys said that an intellectuall natur is blessed naturally in it self It had been well they had remembred that the grace of God is life eternall Rom. 6. VI. The Armenians taught that no soul is beatified before doomsday as also some Greeks adding that sinners are not punisht till that day This is the opinion Pope John the 22. propounded to the University of Paris But it was gainsayed by the councel of Florence under Pope Eugenius the fourth as contrary to the churches beleef and the Scripture it self does in a manner expresly refute it We know if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolved we have a hous not made by hands eternall in the heavens 2 Cor.
5. At least Catholik tradition wch is the only interpreter of Scriptur and judg of all controversies hath cast it VII That all shall be equall in glory was the paradox of Jovinian a Roman monk in the time of Pape Damasus and Siricius who leaving his profession ran himself into many heresies this opinion is no other for there is one clarity of the Sun another brightness of the moon another of the Stars as one star differs from another in glory so also shall be the resurrection of the dead Cor. 15. Jerom wrote two books against Jovinian and this opinion is disabled by the autority of the councell of Theles in Africa under Pape Siricius of Florence under Pape Eugenius the fourth VIC You might Sr Harry have named my husband me for many of these opiniōs wthout troubling your self wth such ūcouth names for we hold them too and so long as God gives us life and health shall do so stil according as it is written Hold that fast wch thou hast Rev. 3.11 Nay I hold others too wch you now mentiond though I never heard of them before according as it is written We beseech you brethren that ye increass more and more 1 Thess 4. LA. Pray S. Harry speak somthing concerning the Sacraments and what devises have been about them KN. Madam I am now come to it I. the hereticks called Cathari denied all Sacraments the Armenians and long after them Martin Luther Father of the Protestants admitted some according to their owne liking but denied that any had intrinsecall vertue to confer grace But the councell of Trent under Pape Paule the third sesse 7. both defined the Sacraments to be seaven in number according to the Catholik tradition and to confer grace ex opere operato II. That sacred things and spirituall gifts might be purchased wth money was the errour of Simon Magus and the action from him termed Simony condemnd in the 11 Toletan councell c. 8. decret and before by S. Peter himself Non est tibi pars Act. 8. III. Luther taught that in no Sacrament was imprinted any character contrary to the churches doctrine wch teacheth such a seal to be made in baptism confirmation and holy orders confirmd by the councell of Carthage Florence and Trent under Paul the third Sess 7. can 9. In particular concerning Baptism there have been many errours I. Seleucus and Hermias Galatians baptised not in water but fire But the councell of Florence under Eugenius the fourth defined water to be the naturall matter of Baptism II. The Marcites disciples of one Marcus a magician about the Apostles time changed the form of Baptism doing it In the name of the unknown Father of all things and in truth the Mother of all and in him who descended upon Jesus For they held that God preacht in the old law was not the Father of Christ becaus he was unknown The Cataphygians and Paulianists also did not baptise in the name of the Trinity as Catholikes do according to comand of Gospell Baptiseing them in the name of the Father Son and holy Ghost Mat. 28. III. The said Cataphygians baptised the dead They had their name from the Province of Phrygia whence they came their leader was Montanus who called himselfe the Paraclet and Prisca Maximilla his two Prophetesses The Marcionists did the same who finding any to dye unbaptised they put a living man under the hers of the dead and asked him as if he were the dead man if he desired to be baptised answering yea they baptised him for the dead wch thing they said S. Paul himself did practise 1. Cor. 15. although Marcion their leader is not read to have don any such thing but few hereticks content themselvs wth the errours of their leaders Marcion himself was in the time of Antoninus Pius his countrey Pontus a great stoick Philosopher and being converted to Christian faith he followed the dogmes of Cerdon intermingling many Philosophicall things wth his Christian religion and coming to Rome he seduced many Catholiks where meeting wth S. Polycarp and asking him if he knew him I know quoth S. Polycarp and do acknowledge the eldest son of Satan But against this errour both of the Marcionits and Cataphygias is the definition of the third conncell of Carthage where t is declared that neither the Eucharist nor baptism may be given to the dead IV. The Psallians and Euchitae attributed no vertue at all to Baptism but made all sins to be rased onely by Prayer so likewise the Messalians and Enthusiasts The Manichees also thought that baptism exhibited in water was worth nothing The Albanenses Albigenses likewise rejected baptisme the Armenians took from the Sacraments all power of conferring grace Against this heresy is the decre of the councell of Florence under Eugenius the fourth V. Petrus de Bruis a Frenchman of Narbona who was afterwards burnt in the Town of S. Giles said and taught that baptism was of no avail to Infants that have not the use of reason After him one Henricus bore his Standard from whom the followers of the heresy were called Henricians and Brusians After four hundred years the Anabaptists raised up the heresy again But S. Denis the Areopagite witnesses that children were baptised in the Apostles time c. ult Eccl. Hier. And S. Cyprian two hundred years after and S. Austin after him testify that it was done in their days And the Catholik practise is confirmd by the councell of Lateran under Pope Innocent the third by the councel of Vienna under Clement the fift and the councell of Trent under Paul the third in two Sessions 5. Sess c. 4. 7. Sess can 19. VI. The Donatists rebaptised such as came over to their side beleeving that such as came to the true church was to be baptised again But the first councell of Carthage c. 1 decret as also the councell of Vienna under Pape Clement the fifth and the councell of Florence under Eugenius the fourth defined this opinion as erroneous S. Cyprian and other Byshops of Africa held also that hereticks coming to the Catholik church were to be rebaptised But this they did not defend against the church wth pertinacy as hereticks did but disputed it as a probable opinion not then in their dayes defined and happly upon suspition that hereticks used not the right form and matter One Baltasar a Dutchman of late held morover that all people are to be baptised again when they come to years of discretion becaus he thought the baptism of infants were of no valiew But faith teaches there is but one Baptism Eph. 4. as ther is but one death of Christ wch it figureth Do ye not know that so many as are baptised unto Christ are baptised to his death Rom. 6.3 VII The Armenians taught that baptism ought to be conferred wth the Eucharist and that none can be validly baptised unless he be anointed wth chrism Claudius Taurinensis held baptism without the sign of the
of no naturall thing therfor they coupled openly like dogs III. Simon Magus the Nicolaites Adamites Waldenses that the promiscuous use of women is lawfull IV. The Bogards and Beguines that a kiss is a sin but copulation is not V. The Adamites that corporall nakedness is to be used and therfor they walkt and prayed naked calling their congregation Paradise VI. The Valesij that no man can pleas God except he be gelt and made an eunuch VII Severus that wine is unlawfull and the vine sprung up from the earth and Satan VIII Tatianus that it is not lawfull to eat flesh at any time or for any necessity and according to the Catharists neither eggs chees nor milk IX Iovinian that a man upon any day may lawfully eat any thing either egges or flesh in Lent or upon good friday X. The Discalceati as S. Austin calls them that no Christian man may wear shoos Lastly the naturall liberty of mans free will is quite taken away by Bardesanes Manicheus Abailardus Wicleph and Iovinian said that no man can do amiss after he has received the grace of Baptism As for things and actions politicall I. The Waldenses and Wiclevists maintained that we must not obay to any power upon earth II. Basilides if any power raise a persecution against Christians that we are rather to deny Christ than suffer martyrdome III. Petilianus a Donatist that t is a comendable martirdom for a man to kill himself IV. The Waldenses that no man can be justly put to death by any autority V. Joannes Parvi that a tirant may lawfully be murdred by any vassail and that of his owne privat autority notwthstanding any oath to the contrary VI. The Waldenses that it is never lawfull for Christians to take an oath VII Priscillanus that Christians may lawfully forswear themselves VIII Luther that t is lawfull in no case for Christians to demand before a judg any reparation for an injury IX Manicheus that t is never lawfull to wage war and Luther that t is unlawfull for Christians to fight against the Turk X. Som Greeks that t is lawfull to cheat our enemies and that usury is no wayes unlawfull XI Diotrephes in the Apostles time that Hospitality is not to be showed to strangers especially Catholik Priests XII Willielmus de Sancto Amore and Wicleph that monks and Religious men are not to have any food but what they get by manuall labour as on the other side the Psalliani Euchetae or Enthusiasts erred no less in affirming that no manuall labour was lawfull for them as also the Waldenses that no perfect man ought to labour wth his hands in the common wealth These be the chiefest extravagancies I find concerning Christian actions morall naturall and politicall VIC O Sr you have made too much hast and crowded these brave spirits too close together Great wits love freedom cannot indure to be straitned Your speedy narration makes them thrust and crowd trample upon one anothers heels as the herd of swine in Gospell wch the devills drave head long into the Sea In this great hast of yours I have let slip not onely their opinions but their very names But so it is fulfilled that is written of you I said in my hayst All men are lyers Psa 116. KN. To bring my speech to a period The Catholik Church an indulgent mother as she could not but be affected to see children that came from her own bowells bandy and rise up against her so tumultuously from time to time so hath she showed no less industry and watchfullnes to repress them all being her self still peremptorily resolued not to depart whatsoever should happen so much as an apex or jota from the word she had received And truly her majesty and power appears in that she still livs to see all her rebells under her feet however through the frailty of revolting men they may grow strong and multiply somtimes for two or three ages together in some parts of the earth against her I shall ever love and reverence this divine integrity wisedom and power of the Catholike and immaculate spous of Christ wch can neither tamely let fall the truths she has received nor yet by violence be forced out of her right Indeed besides the generall honesty whereby she stood obliged as a depositary to keep unalterable and entire all the whol tradition committed to her custody the Paradoxes of Sectaries were so dissonant for the most part to right reason morall justice piety that the wisedome sobriety and faith of the Church Catholik could not in any sort comply wth them though she should sink under the persecution of Apostates Nor had she more reason to comply wth any one than all according as they rose and so she should ever and anon gainsay herself do and undo say and unsay affirm and deny the very same things for fectaries were quite contradictory to one another Nor by this time had she kept any considerable portion of that body of tradition she received from her Redeemer wth the threat of a heavy curs on him should dare to altar or diminish from it Let him be accursed that loves it the spous of Christ is blessed and so united wth her head that she cannot depart from the truth emboweld wthin her breast and as it were identified in herself There is morover one thing I could wish you take notice of That the whole heap of Reformation begun by Luther this last age and made up by the additions of whosoever will do it is but onely so many severall hand fulls of execrable ashes taken out of the urns of condemnd Hereticks long ago deceased as for example LA. Nay Sr Harry if you mean to speak any longer at this time you shall talk to the carpet The weather is cold and our howr past Besides dinner is not to be lost VIC Indeed as it is written There is nothing better for a man than that he should eat and drink and enjoy the fruit of his labour Eccl. 2. MIN. These extravagant opinions were doubtles hereticall in the first Authours not afterwards in us Plures cum faciunt idem non est idem LA. Let 's go let 's go VIC Let them go Madam ther 's not a dish brought to table yet I do assure you t is twenty pittyes time is so far spent I have somthing to say would have made Sr Harry blush a whol half howrs talk Madam LA. When we are set at table I shal giv you occasion Mistres to utter it VIC Sr Harry if you observd so much in his Catalog of errours made mention of many that by those opinions were cut off from the Papists excomunicated having been aforetime of their number but the standing body of Papists he accuses of no errour at all But Madam I have gathered nine and thirty Articles wch they hold contrary to truth LADY Those that wer made in K. James his days VIC No no of myne own