nihilominus postea quidam subtilissimi Fascicu Tom. a tat 6. fol. 78. haeâ—etici qui istam haeresim Waldensium defendere conabantur plura regna populos deceperunt that is notwithstanding there were afterwards some most subtill heretikes which went about to defend this heresie of the Waldenses and deceiued or rather truely instructed many kingdomes and nations And againe hauing made mention of certaine Popish doctors in those daies as Hugo Cardinalis c. hee hath these words Quos diuina bonitas 1233. misit pro fidei defensione alioquin tota pene fides perüsset propter Fol. 80. haeret corum multiplioitatem subtilitatem simul potentiam that is whome God sent for the defence of the faith for otherwaies it had like wholy to haue perished by reason of the multitude subtiltie and powre of heretikes It appeareth by the testimonie of this Popish Monke that in those daies there were verie many of them whom hee falsely calleth heretikes And whereas these detested the enormities and abominations of the Church of Rome and maintained the same substantiall and fundamentall points of doctrine that wee doe as it appeareth by the articles obiected vnto them that they did how doth this man say that our religion was not these 1500. yeares in the world It was in the world but hated of the world which hated Ioh. 15. 18. 19 Christ yet was it constantly confessed euen to death of them whome God the Father hath giuen to Christ out of Ioh. 17. 6. 9. the world Hereby it may sufficiently appeare that the Synagogue of the Iewes hath not been more constant in continuance nor more ample in place then the true Church of Christ hath beene In deed it may bee that the Synagogues of the Iewes haue continued in some certaine places more constantly then the true Churches of Iesus Christ haue done Yet herevpon it doth not follow that either Gods admirable promises haue not beene performed or that the true Church hath perished It is not the Synagogue of the Iewes but the true Church of God that is clothed with Apoca. â—2 1. Christ the Sonne of righteousnes treadeth vnder her feete earthly things which be mutable as the moone is adorned with the doctrine of Christs twelue Apostles which is forced Chrysostom in psal 114. to flee into the wildernes Chrysostome saith well Ecclesia est tabernaculuÌ„ à deo fixum non ab homine ab vno loco in alium fugit sed non à pietate ad impietatem fugit that is The Church is the tabernacle which God hath pight not man shee fleeth from one place to another but shee neuer fleeth from Godlines to impiety and wickednes As Barrabas found here more fauor with the prelates and priests of Iudah and Ierusalem then Iesus Christ the Sonne of God did So the Popes and Iewes Synagogues haue found more fauor and more quietly rested in this wicked world then the true Church of Iesus Christ hath done As euen in Rome the Iewes professed open enemies of our Sauiour Christ haue had and yet haue their synagogues and liue paying their tributes in as great quietnesse and safety as the Curtizans Whores of Rome doe which pay yearely to the Pope twenty thousand duckates It is written in the pontificall Cornel. Aprip de Vanitate Scient cap. 64. that at the coronation of the Pope and in his procession to the Church of Laterane the Iewes vse to meete him and making curtesie do offer the law to him to whom hee giueth a gentle answer But whereas the foresaid Arnoldus Brixianus a great learned man reproued the errors enormities of the Church of Rome Adrian the fourth our proud Platina in Adriano 4. countriman who rebuked the Emperour for holding his wrong stirrop would not go vp the Church of Laterane to Platina in Honorio 2. be consecrate vntil he were driuen out of Rome There was also one Arnulphus in Rome a Godly man whom many of the inhabitants thereof acknowledge for a true disciple of Christ that was there murthered by the priests for inueighing Platina in Paulo 2. Sabellicus Ennead 10. l. b. 7. against their wickednes Also in a towne neere Rome called Pole the Lord therof with many others were counted heretikes for saying that none of them which followed Peter were the true vicars of Christ but such as followed the pouerty of Christ These Pope Paulus the second persecuted contumeliously intreated as Platina Sabellicus do write Hereby wee see that it is a thing more allowable in Rome to deny Christ as the Iewes do then to meddle with the Popes triple crowne or to reproue his pride enormities This our doctrine of performing Gods admirable promises not in proud Popes and wicked worldlings but in the faithfull which feare God tremble at his word and are for the most part hated and persecuted in the world doth neither shew the path to Atheisme nor open the gap to Machiuilian deuises which by the testimonie of some Papists themselues are no where sooner learned then in that schoole wherein T. W. the author of this slanderous libell hath beene as I suppose too much and too long trained I meane the schoole of Iesuites of whome William Watson a Popish secular Priest in his booke of Quodlibets lately published Quodlib 1. art 9 pag 21. Ibidem doth thus write Many Atheal paradoxes be taught in the Iesuites conclaue or close conuenticles Aga. Questionlesse the Iesuits want neither art nor euill will nor yet malitious meanes to effect it as hauing vsed from the beginning more Machiuilian deuises and Atheal practises in secret conference by their inferior agents with schismatikes yea and with our common aduersaries then with catholikes Againe It must Quodlib 4. art 4. pag. 112. needes follow that there is not a Iesuite in al England this day but hath a bitter smack of father Parsons impiety irreligiosity treachery treason and Machiuilian Atheisme Againe neither Machiuel nor any that euer yet was in Europe came neere Quodi 9. art 7. pag. 314. vnto the Iesuites for Atheal deuise to preâ—eâ—t he stopples of their stratagems and to further their proceedings Againe But I call them Iesuiticall that is the faction of the Iesuites In the appendix to the Quodli pag. 346. by abbreuiation to auoide circumlocution in one word expressing them to bee a factious seditious ambitious auaritious treacherous traiterous Machiuilian Atheâ—ll consort that abusing the rules of their society c. By the iudgement of this Popish Priest let the good Reader consider who they bee that shew the path to Atheisme and open the gap to Machiuilian deuises The Pamphlet The learned Protestants are Infidels 2. Article WHosoeuer buildeth his faith voppn his owne priuate and singular exposition of Scripture is an Infidel But all learned Protestants in England build their faith vppon their owne priuate exposition of Sripture Ergo all the Protestants of England
veritâ—e that is both bee subiect to semblable incertaintie These errors I say they know not and consequentlie cannot discerne a true translation from a false and therefore must needes relie their faith vpon the sillie ministers faithlesse fidelitie which conuinceth they haue no faith at all Answere IDeny the Minor or second proposition of this Syllogisme and say that wee relie not our faith vpon the Ministers credit and sidelitie but vpon the worde of GOD translated the which wee know to bee true and holie not so much for that it is by publike authoritie and generall assent of men allowed as for that it containeth most holie doctrine agreeable to true faith and Godlie life whereby any that readeth or heareth it may behold the Maiestie of Gods spirit appearing in it As for example I beleeue these sayings to be true That Iesus Christ came into this world to saue sinners that hee is the Lambe 1. Tim. 1. Iob. 1. Tit. 2. 11. of GOD which taketh away the sinnes of the world that the grace of GOD which offereth saluation to all men hath appeared and treacheth vs that wee denie vngodlinesse and worldlie lust and liue soberlie righteously and Godlie in this present world c. not for that this or that man hath translated them but because the spirit of God doth beare witnesse vnto my heart that most holie pure and diuine doctrine is contained in them And therefore to say that those which vnderstand not the Hebrew and Greeke tongues because they vse the word of God translated to them into other languages do rely their faith vpon the Ministers credit and fidelitie and haue no faith is most foolish and absurd And let the Christian reader marke and confider how this sottish reason tendeth to the discrediting not onely of vs but also of the most part of all Godly and faithfull Christians in all ages yea and to the most of the Godly Doctors Fathers of the Church who were almost al ignorant of the Hebrew tongue and some of the Greeke also The holy scriptures were translated into many tongues in the which the people of God did reade and heare them As Theodoretus writeth Hebraici vero libri non modò in Graecum idioma conuersi sunt sed in Romanam quoque Theodor. de cu. vatione Graecarum affectionum lib 5. linguam Aegyptiacam Persicam Indicam Armenicamque Scythicam adeoque Sauromaticam semelque vt dicam in linguas omnes quibus ad hanc diem nationes vtantur that is The Hebrew bookes bee translated not onely into the Greeke tongue but also into the Romaine Egyptian Persian Indian Armenian and Scythian and also the Sclauonian tongues to say at a word into all languages which the nations vse vnto this day Did the ancient faithfull Christians which read and heard the holy scriptures in these sundrie languages rely their faith vpon men that did translate them or vpon the diuine doctrine and pretious promises of God contained in them And let this cauiller shew sufficient reason why were are not either to be acquited with them or they condemned with vs. They could no more iudge of the truth of the translations then our people can yet they did to their great comfort and Godly instruction and edification reade and heare the holy scriptures grounding their faith not vpon the translators who might bee and sometimes were euill men but vpon the sound holy and heauenly doctrien therein contained Saint Hierome exhorted ladies and gentlewomen Hieron ad Gaudentium de pacatulae Inâ—â—tulae educat ad letam de institut filiae not onely to reade the scriptures themselues but also to bring vp their young daughters when they were but seuen yeares old in that holy exercise They were not able to iudge of the translations otherwaies then to discerne and perceiue that the doctrine by them deliuered was pure and holy agreeable to true faith and Godly life And euen so they that bee Godly in these daies although they hauing not the knowledge of the Hebrew and Greeke tongues cannot iudge so exactly of translations and of the truth of them as those that vnderstand them can yet they may discerne whether the translations deliuer sound and holy doctrine consonant to true faith good manners and the generall heads and principles of Christianitie or not I neede not heere aske vpon what or whome your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Catholikes doe rely their faith when they reade either the old vulgar Latine translation of the Remish English seeing they can no more nor better iudge of these translations whether they bee true or false then wee I do not I say aske wheron they rely their faith for it seemeth that they build not their faith so much vpon Extrauagant Ioh. 22. cum inter in glossa dist 96. satis euidenter the written word of God in the scriptures as vpon vnwritten traditions of men customes of fathers decrees of councels and especially vpon the will and pleasure of their great GOD as his owne friends call him the Pope of Rome Whose will is the rule of their faith and life If he giue a dispensation for a man to mary his owne sister as Antoninus Sum. part 3. titu 1. cap. 11. 55. quod papa summa Angelica in Papa fol. â—32 Pope Martin the fift did it is lawfull if he giue a dispensation for one to marry his sisters daughter which is as vnlawfull as the other as a late Pope gaue to the late King Philip of Spaine it is lawfull But yet if any of these counted Catholikes will pretend to build their faith vpon the Scriptures and being ignorant of the Hebrew and Greeke tongues readeth either the vulgar Latine or English Remish translation of the new Testament I would aske how he doth know whether these translations bee true or false or whether hee will say that his faith dependeth vpon the credit and fidelitie of the translator or no But I know Counc TrideÌ„t Sessi decretum 2. what they will answere that the Latine vulgar translation is allowed by the Church that is to say by the councell of Trident which representeth the Church which hath decreed the same to bee taken for authenticall in readings disputations sermons or expositions and that no man bee bold or presume vpon any pretence to reiect or refuse it Wherevnto first I say that as this decree doth allow the Latine so it doth not approue the English Now how shall an English Catholike that vnderstandeth not the Latine know whether the same bee truely translated out of the Latine or no or shall his faith here rely vpon the credit and fidelitie of the translator I would know what difference there is betweene such a one reading or hearing that translation and one of vs reading or hearing ours And why the faith of the one doth more depend on the credit and fidelity of the translator then the other Surely this difference there is that our translations
onely perfection of men to acknowledge themselues to be vnperfect Wherefore lette vs not glory of all integritie but lette vs vnfainedly confesse our owne iniquitie and euen in the best workes we do flee vnto Gods mercy in Christ IESVS who hath loued vs and washed away our sinnes in his owne bloud to whome with the Father and the holy Ghost three persons and one onely God bee all praise laud and glory now and euermore Amen The Pamphlet The Protestants haue either no faith at all or lye most damnably in denying that a man assisted by GODS grace can keepe the Commaundements 3. Article VVHosoeuer knoweth God keepeth his commandements But all true Protestants know God Ergo all true Protestants keepe his commandements The Maior is expresse Scripture qui dicit se nosse deum mandata eius non custodit mendax est in eo veritas non est Hee that saith he knoweth God and keepeth not his commandements is a lyar and truth is not in him The Minor no Protestant doubteth of for this knowledge of God is nothing else but a liuely faith wherewith all zealous Protestants as they say are indewed Hence from manifestly it followeth that either most zealous Protestants lacke a liuely faith and so are Infidels or if they haue a liuely faith and deny that they keep or can keepe Gods commandements they are damnable lyars of they chuse the first they are Pagans Heretikes or Iewes if they take the second they are damnable seducers impostors in religion consequently their faith is false Answere THis Syllogisme according to Saint Iohns meaning is wholy true The Apostles purpose is to shew that the knowledge of GOD in the faithfull ought not to bee idle but effectuall and fruitfull in godlinesse and holy obedience working a care and conscience in them to keepe Gods holy commaundements by dilligent endeuouring both to auoid all wickednesse which he forbiddeth and to yeelde that holy obedience which hee requireth The which they that do not but liue prophanely wallowing in wickednesse and committing vngodlinesse with greedinesse and yet make a profession of the knowledge of God as too many do their profession and knowledge is in vaine For as Saint Iames saith if any seeme religious â—am 1. 16. and refraineth not hâ—s â—ongue but deceiueth his owne heart that mans reliâ—ion is in vaine So if any seeme to haue the knowledge of God and liueth loosely and wickedly hauing no care to frame his life to the obedience of Gods commandements his religion profession and knowledge is in vaine For not euery one that saith vnto me Lord Lord Math. 7. 21. shal enter into the kingdome of heauen but he that doth my fathers will which is in heauen But your meaning is that by keeking of Gods commandements is vnderstood an absolute and perfect fulfilling of them in yeelding without any transgression at all that ful and perfect rightecusnes which God commandeth The which neuer did any man 1. Peter 2. yeeâ—d but onely the man Iesuc Christ who neuer did sinne and in whose mouth was neuer guile This your doctrine of the perfect fulfilling of Gods law in this life is false and you in maintaining of it shew your selues to be blind and proud Pharisies not knowing either the perfect righteousnes of God nor the corruption of our nature against the which I reason thus Whosoeuer sinneth transgresseth and breaketh Gods lawes and commaundements but all men doe sinne Therefore all men transgresse and breake Gods lawes and commaundements The first proposition is manifest for S. Iohn saith sinne is the transgression of 1. Iohn 3. 4. the law The second proposition cannot with any face bee denied Salomon saith there is no man that sinneth not Saint 1. King 8 46. Rom 3. 23. Iames â— 2. 1. Iohn 4. 8. Paul saith all haue sinned and are depriued of the glorie of God Saint Iames saith in many things we sinne all Saint Iohn saith â—f we say that we haue no sinne we deceiue our selues the truth is not in vs. Moreouer S. Paul saith as many as are Galat. 3. 10. of the workes of the law are vnder the cursse for it is written Cursed is euery one that continueth not in al things which are written in the booke of the law to do them Where Saint Paul doth reason after this sort Whosoeuer doth not continue to doe all that is written in the booke of the law are vnder the cursse but there is none that continueth to doe all that is written in the booke of the law Ergo there is none but is vnder the curse The first proposition Saint Paul proueth by a place of the law Deut. 27. The second Saint Paul taketh as a thing graunted and not to bee denyed that there is no man which continueth to doe all that is written in the booke of the law to do it the which if it be not graunted Saint Paules argument is nothing worth for it might be said that some doe fulfill the law of God and therefore are not vnder the curse So that which seemed to Saint Paul absurd to be denied is now denied by these absurd and blind Pharisies Furthermore Saint Paul saith That which was impossible to the law in as much as it was Rom. 8 3. made weake because of the flesh God sending his owne sonne in the similitude of sinful flesh and for sinne hath condemned sinne in the flâ—sh Doth not S. Paul here shew that whereas wee could not be saued by the law God hath sent his sonne in the flesh to saue vs And he declareth why we could not be saued by the lawe because the weakenes of our sinfull flesh is not able to yeeld that perfect righteousnes which the law of God requireth the which if we could doe we should liue therby For God saith which if a man doe he shall Ezech. 20. â—1 liue in them And that euen they that are regenerate with Gods spirit doe not perfectly fulfill the law and keepe Gods commaundements it is most euident by Saint Pauls confession of himselfe I am carnal sold vnder sinne I allow Rom. 7. 14. not that which I doe for that I would I doe not but what I hate that I doe It is no more I that doe it but sinne that dwelleth in me For I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing for to will is present with me But I find no meanes to performe that which is good For I doe not the good thing which I would but the euil which I would not that dâ—eâ— I finde that wheÌ„ I would doe good euil is present with me I see another law in my members rebelling against the law of my minde leading me captiue to the law of sinne which is in my members O wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me from this body of death If S. Paul that elect vessell of God which was taken Act. 9. 15. 2. Cor
truely receiue Iesus Christ and doth eate his flesh and drinke his blood to the feeding and nourishing of his soule to eternall life but an euacuating of the substance of the bread and wine and the turning and transubstantiating of the same into the very naturall body and bloud of Christ contained vnder the outward accidents of bread and wine concerning this false grosse and carnall doctrine I haue said sufficiently in a printed sermon published twentie yeares past and as yet not confuted wherein I haue shewed that this doctrine is contrary to the holy Scriptures which call it bread after it is consecrated and when it 1 Cor. 10 16. 17. 2. 26. 27. 28. is receiued and that it is contrary to the nature of a Sacrament which must haue a substantiall element or else it can bee no Sacrament that it is contrary to the Articles of faith and holy Scripâ—ures which teach vs that Christ in respect of his humanitie is ascended into heauen and there is to bee sought and not vpon the earth and that this doctrine draweth with it many absurdities as that Christs body is at one moment in heauen and earth and in infinite places of the earth without either quantity or quality of a body and that wicked and vnfaithfull men doe eate the very body and blood of Christ and such other absurdities which are more largely layde downe in my sayd Sermon whereunto I remit the reader where also I haue set downe sundrie testimonies of the ancient godly learned Fathers against this grosse and false doctrine of transubstantiation As touching their Sacrifice of the Masse wherein they falsly faine that they offer vp Iesus Christ for a propitiatory sacrifice for the sinnes of the liuing and of the dead I say that this doctrine hath neither warrant of the word of GOD nor of the ancient godly and learned Fathers but is contrary to them both First no man euer did or can offer vp Iesus Christ for a propitiatorie Sacrifice Iudâ—â— betraved him the Priests accused him Pilate condemned him the Iewes crucified him but none did offer him for a sacrifice for our sinnes but himselfe Who Heb. 9. 14 through the eternall spirit offred himselfe without spot to GOD. So saith Saint Paul that Christ gaue Ephes 5. 2. himselfe for vâ—to bee an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet smelling sauour to God And if a man could offer vp Iesus Christ vnto his Father for a Sacrifice then see what an absurditie would follow that Iesus CHRIST should bee accepted of his heauenly Father for the mans sake that doth offer him for in all Sacrifices the man is not excepted for the sacrifice sake but the Sacrifice for the mans sake that doth offer it As for example Caine and Abel offered either of them a Sacrifice the one of the fruit of his field the other of the increase of his cattell there was no difference before God in the outward sacrifice yet the one was accepted and the other was reiected because the one was a godly and faithfull man that did offer it and the other a wicked Hypocrite and therefore the Apostle saith that by faith Abel offered a greater sacrifice Heb. 2. 4. then Caine did The Sacrifices of Noah Abraham and other faithfull Fathers pleased GOD and it is said that hee smelled a sweet â—auour of rest and this was because they Gen. 8. 21. were godly and faithfull which did offer them Afterward the same Sacrfices offred by the wicked Iewes which were a sinfull nation a people laden with iniquitie the seede of the wicked corrupt children which Isa 1. had forsaken the Lord and prouoked the holy one of Israel to anger whose hands were full of blood 15 were so odious and abominable to GOD that he saith of them What haue I to doe with the multitude 2 of your sacrifices saith the Lord I am full of the burnt offerings of Rammes and the fat of fedde beastes And a little after Bring no more oblations in vaine incense is an obhomination vnto mee Yea GOD saith of those sacrifices in another place Hee that killeth a Bullocke is as if hee slewe a man hee that sacrificeth a sheepe is as if hee cut off a dogges necke hee that offereth an oblation is as if hee had offered Isa 66. 3. swines blood he that remembreth incense is as if he had blessed an idoll c. Why did God thus abhor these sacrifices which he himselfe had commanded to bee offered euen because they were wicked men voide of true faith and repentance which did offer them And to come nearer to the purpose why was the sacrifice of Iesus Christ vpon the Crosse a sweete smelling sacrifice to God to pacifice his wrath to satisfie his iustice and to purchase his mercy vnto vs surely because Iesus Christ the Sonne of God did offer it as before is declared And therefore it must in like manner follow that if a miserable man could offer Iesus Christ for a sacrifice to his Father then Christ should bee accepted for the mans sake the which if it be false and blasphemous then can no man offer vp Iesus Christ for a propitiatory sacrifice to his Father Moreouer this sacrifice of our Sauiour Christ vpon the Heb. 7 27 Crosse for our redemption was but once offered and can neuer bee repeated So saith the Apostle that Christ needed not dayly as those high priests did offer vp sacrifice first for their owne sinnes and then for the people for that did hee once when hee offered vppe himselfe Againe neither by Heb. 9 12 the bloud of Gâ—ates and Calues but by his owne entred hee once into the holie place and obtained eternall redemption Againe not that hee should offer himselfe often as the high priest 9. 25. entered into the holy place euery yeare with other bloud for then must hee often haue suffered since the foundation of the world but now in the end of the world hath he appeared once to put away sinne by the offering of himselfe And as it is 10. 19. appointed to all men once to die and then commeth iudgement So Christ was once offered to take away the sinnes of man c. Againe By the which will wee bee sanctified euen by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once made Againe but this Vsc 12. man after hee had offered one sacrifice for sinne sitteth for euer at the right hand of God Thus wee see that the holy scripture teacheth vs that our Sauiour Christ once offered himselfe once entred into the holy place with one oblation once made hath sanctified vs and so can neuer bee repeated And if this sacrifice should bee repeated and our Sauiour Christ should daily be offered in the Masse see what absurdities would follow First that the sacrifice of our Sauiour Christ vpon the Crosse were weake imperfect and insufficient to take away sinne for so the Apostle doth reason doth proue
hinder it would suffer others to do it yet there Popeholy deuotion hath moued them to translate into English to publish in print aboue an hundred yeares past there golden Legend fully fraughted with lying fables as is before signified and is by some papistes confessed More-ouer will you confesse that because your Popes Sixtus the fift and Clemens the eight haue beene moulding a new your vulgare latine translation as I haue shewed that therefore it was before false and nought Surely whatsoeuer you will herein confesse both this their moulding and the booke it selfe did plainly shew that it was become very mouldy and corrupt and full of foule faults as sundry Papists haue acknowledged And why may not we as well bee moulding againe our translations as these Popes haue beene moulding this their mouldy translation which when their kingdome most florished by little vse and much rest had gotten much rust Aud therefore vntill you haue answered the same you may bee ashamed to brag of his pregnant proofs which were so weake and cauils so greatand many that he rather discouered his own folly then discredited our translators What Maister Broughton writeth concerning our translation I doe not knowe neither do I greatly care yet this I say although that our translations were made in the feare of God to profit Gods Church and people according to the measure of the grace of God bestowed vpon the laborers in that holy worke and be voyd of wilfull corruptions either for doctrine or manners yet I do not thinke them to be voyde of imperfections in respect of propriety of words and phrases wherein they may be somewhat reformed and amended And hard it is to haue a translation so exact and perfit but that some such imperfectnes may be in it which yet be not repugnant either to holy doctrine or good life And for asmuch as this man of malice would faine if hee could discredit our translations and cause the Reader to doubt of the truth of them I wil shew not onely the good Christian but also the Romish Catholike y◠hath vnderstanding of the Latine tongue how he may discerne and know the truth and faithfulnesse of our translations and so not to relie vpon the credit of our Ministers There is a Latine translation of the old Testament made from the Hebrew very well and learnedly by Sanctes Pagninus an Italian and a dominicke Frier a man excellentlie learned in the Hebrew tongue for I will giue him and his worke their due and deserued praise and commendation and not doe as this libeller and his fellowes vse to doe who of enui◠and malice wherewith their hearts bee infected and possessed cannot giue a good word to any thing we do though it be neuer so good and Godly This translation hee did dedicate to Pope Clemens the feauenth Let the Reader compare our translations especially of the latter editions with the said translation and see whether in any substantiall matter of faith and life hee can finde any corruptions and any great and notorious dissensions from the same And the like I may say of Erasmus translation of the new Testament dedicated to Pope Leo the tenth and allowed by him Let Isay the Reader compare our translations with these and although hee may finde some difference in words and phrases yet in matters of substance which concerne either the doctrine of faith or precepts of good life I am sure hee shall finde a goodly and Godly harmonie and agreement to his comfort and contentation And lastly I wil offer to this challenger who offereth challenge of disputation with vs and to al his partakers that for one fault of moment or weight that they shall finde in our translation especially as I said of the latter editions wherein they differ from the originall fountaines of the Hebrew and Greeke I will vndertake to finde sixe yea ten greater and fouler in that vulgar Latine translation which the councell of Trident hath most absurdly confirmed and made authentical And therefore let neither the Godly Christian Reader nor the seduced Catholike be disswaded from reading of our translations nor doubt of the truth of them But this hath beene in all ages the drift of the Diuell to seeke to discredite and diffame those Godly men that haue labored in Gods vineyard and haue indeuored to translate his holy word to the comfort and saluation of his elect and chosen people How Saint Hierome of old and Erasmus of late were vsed I haue elsewhere shewed So this cauiller dealeth now with that blessed man of God and constant Martyr of Iesus Christ Maister Tindall who as hee did patiently and constantly beare and abide their furious crueltie and confirmed the truth of God which hee had taught with the shedding of his bloud in flaming fire so hee needeth not my defence Who was a man of such mortification and Godly life that I haue knowne some of great credite and authoritie that knew him and liued with him at Antwerpe that would say of him that if a man could bee like God it was Tindall I doubt not but he was indued with much more Godlines then a hundreth of your Popes whom their owne friends and fauorers call for their horrible wickednesse Monstra Portenta Monsters of mankinde But he that iustifieth Platina in Benedioto 4. Christophoro 1. Ioan. 13. prou 17. 15. Psal 1 16. Rom. 3. the wicked and hee that condemneth the innocent euen they both are abhominatiō to God That al men may erre wee doe confesse Omnis homo Mendax all men be liers and generall councells which consist of men may erre and haue erred wee doe not doubt But of this it shall bee impertinent to speake at this present I will onelie now retort your argument vpon you Whosoeuer relieth his faith vpon man hath no faith but all English Papists that vnderstand not the Hebrew Greeke and Latine and reade the Remish translation relie their faith vpon man videl the translator of that Testament ergo all such English Papists haue no faith The like may bee said of them that reade the Latine which relie their faith vpon the councell of Trent who were men Againe whosoeuer relieth his faith vpon man hath no faith all Papists relie their faith vpon the Pope who I trow is a man ergo all Papists haue no faith And this shall suffice for answere to your third article The Pamphlet The Protestants know not what they beleeue 4. Article THe Protestants know not what they beleeue nor why they beleeue that they know not why they beleeue I haue shewed before For that the ground of their beleefe is not the authoritie of scripture of councells of Doctors nor of the Church but their owne fancie And that they know not what they beleeue is manifest because they haue no rule whereby to know what is matter of faith and what is not Some say the sphere of their faith is extended solely and wholy to the word of God set
an Heretike for all Heretikes doe as much But Maister T. W. for I will not misname you by H. T. dic sodes tell vs in sooth and sadnesse Do Heretikes beleeue the scriptures I in my poore ignorance haue heretofore thought that Heretikes beleeued erronious and false doctrines repugnant and contrary to the scriptures and that therevpon this argument would haue holden water viz. that they which beleeue false doctrines doe not beleeue the holie Scriptures which containe nothing but new doctrine but Heretikes beleeue false doctrines ergo they beleeue not the holie Scriptures Tell vs also will Heretikes haue the sphere of their faith extended solie and wholie to the worde of GOD set downe in holy writ Then this saying of Tertullian which in my poore ignorance I haue thought that neuer any misliked vnlesse hee were an Heretike will not goe for currant Aufer deniquae haereticis c. Take away from Heretikes Tertul. deresurrect carnis whatsoeuer the Ethnikes haue thought and taught that they may trie their questions Onelie by the Scriptures and they cannot stand For how can this bee that they which beleeue the Scriptures cannot stand if their doctrines bee tried onely by the scriptures But you will say that Heretikes professe that they beleeue the scriptures But is this all one with you for Heretikes to profeâ—â—e the beleefe of the scriptures and in Tiâ— 1. 16. deede to beleeue them Saint Paul saith that some professe to know GOD and by workes do denie him Some also professed themselues to bee Iewes that is to say worshippers Apoca. 2. 9. of GOD as you doe now professe yourselues to bee Catholikes and some to bee of the societie of Iesus when both they were and you are the synagogue and of the societie of sathan Some professed themselues to bee Iohn 8. 39. 40. the Children of Abraham which did not the workes of Abraham but their faither was the diuell as our Sauiour Christ told them Euen so Heritikes may professe Psal 44. that they beleeue the Scriptures when indeede they beleeue them not but reiect the truth of them and beleeue false and damnable doctrines repugnant vnto them Heretikes bee theeues which endeuor to steale away the truth from the people of whom Saint Chrysostome saith Qâ—i sacra non vtitur scriptura sed ascendit aliunde Chrysost in Iorm hom 58. idest non concessa via fur est Hee is a theefe that vseth not the scripture hee saith not that beleeueth the scripture but clymeth into the sheepefold by an other way which is not allowed Of the true sense and exposition of the Scripture I haue intreated at large before Onely now I will ioyne this issue with you vpon these words of Saint Hierome recorded 24. Quaest 3. Haeâ—sis by Gratian in the decrees Quicunque aliter scripturam intelligit c. Whosoeuer expoundeth the scripture otherwaies then the sense of the Holie Ghost by whome it was written doth require although hee haue not departed from the Church yet hee may bee called an Heretike Let them with good will of vs and you that shall soundlie bee prooued to expound the Scriptures other-waies then the sense of the Holie Ghost requireth bee called accounted condemned and punnished Heritikes yea your Expositions bee so false and for ours true that some Papists and euen some of your sweete bretheren the Iesuites are forced by the euidence of Apa Cathel part 2 lib. 5. cap. 17. 18. 19. c. truth to forsake yours and to approoue ours as M. D. Morton hath learnedly and largely declared What you or any other Heretikes say of our Religion beleefe and expositions wee little regard as long as you cannot prooue them to bee hereticall and wee are by the worde of GOD well assured that they bee orthodoxall As touching the book of the Canticles of Sollomon we by the Scriptures doe beleeue that it is the worde of God Saint Paule speaking of the Scripture contained in the canonicall bookes of the old Testament and receiued by the Church of Israell saith that the whole Scripture is inspired of God But this booke of the Canticles was with the other books both of Sollomâ—n and of the rest of the old Testament receiued by the Church of Israell therefore by Saint Paules 2 Tim. 3. 16. iudgement it was inspired of God and so consequently the worde of God as well as others But if we did ioyne herein either with some wicked Anabaptistes now or with some old Hertikes heretofore who haue denied this book to be of the Canon of the Scripture as Phylastrius writeth some did whose opinion we abhorre yet from this particular Jn Catall cap. 133. you could not inferre the proofe of your article being generall that the Protestants know not what they beleeue But herein you do as soundly and substantially reason as Bellarmine and others of you do that because the Enuch did not vnderstand that obscure propheticall speech of Isaias which hee was reading when Philip came to him therefore hee vnderstood nothing in the Prophet Isaias Yea and that all the Scripture is so hard and obscure that it is not expedient for the lay people to read it Concerning the alteration of the Sabbath wee gather by the Scriptures and thereby do beleeue that it was made by the Apostles 1. Cor. 16. 2. Apoca. 1. 10. As your owne fellowes of Rhemes in their annotations vpon these places do confesse And therefore the Sabbath we now obserue is warranted by the Scriptures As for that idle speech of yours of generall and perticuler beleeuing thinges in the Scripture little pertinent to the proofe of your article I answer briefly that although neither all Protestants nor Papistes haue perfect and distinct knowldge of all the Scripture Yet God hath so manifestly expressed therein all thinges needfull to our saluation that it is a most perfect rule of faith and life as is before out of Beda alledged although some men blinded by sinne and mallice do not see them no more then men blinde in body see the cleare light of the Sunne nor doe rightly vse this right rule giuen of God vnto them Chrisostome saith Quaecunquâ— necessâ—ria sunt manifesta sunt Whatsoeuer In 2 Thess Hom. 3. thinges are necessary are manifest Againe Scripturae et seruâ— c. The Scriptures are easie to bee vnderstood both of seruants and misticall people of widdowes In Math. Hom. 1. and boyes and to him that is very Ignorant And whereas you would haue the Councels Doctors and Church the rule of our faith and life bring such like plaine places out of the Scriptures and Doctors for the proofe of it then we wil yeeld vnto you As touching the Apostles creed we acknowledge it to be a briefe abridgement of the especiall and principal points of Christian faith doctrine yet there bee some truthes which are not particularly expressed in the same But whereas you say or rather falsely slaunder that the
yet by the communication of his vertue and demonstration of his diuine workes in those seauen Churches doth so perfectly shew himselfe as though there were so many spirits euery one working in his peculiar Church Ambrose set out by Doctor Tunstall Bishop of Duresme writeth vpon these words thus Hic tota trinit as demonstratur Heere the whole Trinitie is shewed and a little after Per septem autem spiritus spiritus sanctus cò quòd sit septiformis intelligitur By the seauen spirits the holy Ghost is vnderstood because hee worketh seauen manner of wayes And hard it were or rather absurd to pray for grace and peace from Saints and that before Iesus Christ But vpon this I will not stand onely the reader may consider how barren this cause is which hath no plainer proofes and driueth this man to such priuate and false exposition of Gods word Now whereas you say that by prayer you glorifie the Saints in heauen I say that by prayer we doe glorifie God Call vpon mee in Psal 50. 15. the day of trouble and I will deliuer thee and thou shalt glorifie me But that by prayer we should glorifie Saints I doe not finde in all the holy scriptures If this man can why doth hee not shew it I finde that God will not giue his glorie Isa 42. 8. Psal 115. 1 to any other and that the Saints with Dauid say Not vnto vs O Lord not vnto vs but vnto thy name giue the glorie for thy louing mercy and thy truths sake And that the Angell Apoc. 19. 10 2◠8. would not bee worshiped or glorified but said vnto Iohn worship God As touching the Saints mediation when Iesus Christ shall cease to be our mediator and to sit at the right hand of GOD to make intercession for vs then wee wil seeke to your mediation of Saints In the meane time take you heede that in attributing that to the Saints which is proper and peculiar to the sonne of GOD yea which hee hath bought with his bloud you doe not deny the Lord which hath bought vs and that you doe not horribly dishonor those Saints and make Idols of them Furthermore you say that wee deny the communion of the Church militant and the soules in purgatorie c. Wherevnto I answer that when you shal plainely pithily proue this your fained fire of purgatorie which the Greeke Church alwaies hath denied then we will yeeld vnto you and graunt our selues to bee to blame in not helping these seely soules with dirges masses c. out of the paines of this forged fire You quote in your margent for proofe thereof 1. Cor. 3. v. 15. 15. v. 29. Alas poore purgatory that hath no better proofes The words of S. Paul in the first place be these If a mans worke burne he shall lose but he shall be saued himselfe neuerthelesse yet as it were by fire Here is mention of fire and therefore it must needs be the fire of purgatory for such is the great iudgement of these worthy writers that if they read in the scriptures or Fathers this word fire it is none other but the fire of purgatorie if sacrifice it is the sacrifice of the Masse if confessiō it can be nothing but auricular confession to the Priest if tradition it is vnwritten verities or vanities But touching these places of Saint Paul because the author of this Pamphlet doth not aledge them but barely quote them I will but briefely touch thē To the first I say that Saint Paul there speaketh not of all men but only of teachers and preachers which be builders of Gods house and Church which euen Bellarmine confesseth Tom 1. contr 6 de purgat lib. 1 cap. 4. Secondly he speaketh not of all their workes but only of their doctrine whereby they build the Church of God Thirdly hee speaketh not of the purging of workes or persons but of the probation of doctrines Fourthly the works are said to bee prooued and not the persons Lastly if this place should be vnderstood of purgatory then euery man should bee throwne into it for it is said the fire shall try euery mans worke of what sort it is but this is contrarie to the doctrine of the Papists who will not haue all men come into purgatorie These things plainely shew that this place cannot bee vnderstood of purgatorie Saint Augustine in many places doth vnderstand it of the afflictions and troubles sustained in this life and not of the paines of Purgatorie after this life Enchir. ad Laurentium cap. 68. de ciuit Dei lib. 21. cap. 26. de fide operibus cap. 16. in Psal 80. But S. Paul speaketh of triall of doctrine shewing that as the fire trieth mettals so the light of Gods truth trieth doctrines and as gold and siluer abide in the fire and hay and stubble be consumed so true sound and holie doctrines abide the light and trial of Gods word when either vntrue doctrines or vaine speculations perish and be comsumed So doth Saint Ambrose expound it Mala doctrina Ambros in 1. Cor. 3. in igne omnibus apparebit nunc enim quosdam fallit Euill doctrine shall appeare vnto all in the fire for now it deceiueth some Againe Mala enim adultera doctrina idcirco in ligno foeno stipula significata est vt ostenderetur ignis esse esca Euill and counterfeit doctrine is therefore signified by wood hay and stubble that it might be shewed Idem in Psal 118. in haec verba ignitum eloquiū tuum that it is but meate to bee consumed of fire And againe Ignis ergo hic Christi sermo est bonus ignis c. This fire is the word of Christ and it is a good fire which warmeth but burneth not but onely sinnes By this fire that gold of the Apostle laid vpon the good foundation is tried By this fire that siluer of manners or workes is proued By this fire those pretious stones are lightned but the hay stubble is consumed Therefore this fire clenseth the soule and consumeth error Hitherto Saint Ambrose whereby wee may see that neither Saint Augustine nor Saint Ambrose expound this place of Purgatory much lesse the Greeke Fathers who neuer acknowledged it Therfore to expound it of Purgatorie as the Papists do whether it bee not a priuate false exposition let the godly reader vprightly iudge The words of the other place here quoted are these Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead if the dead rise not at all why are they then baptized for dead To picke Purgatorie pickpurse out of this place passeth my skill Here is mention made of baptisme for the dead but neither of Purgatorie nor of praier for the dead I am not ignorant that there bee sundrie expositions of this place yet I doe not remember that euer I read it expounded of Purgatorie or applied vnto it And therefore I will write no more at this present
the righteousnes of Christ which onely is able to hide and discharge all our vnrighteousnesse This doctrine which this disdainfull man so much disdaineth is acknowledged of the Greeke Fathers Basil saith This is perfect and sound glorying in God when a man doth not boast himselfe for his owne righteousnes Basil 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pag. â—â—â— but knoweth himselfe to bee voyd of true righteousnes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And is iustified by onely faith in Christ Chrysostome saith Nobis pro cunctis sola Chrysost in Math Hom. 12. Idem de prodâ—tione Iudae fides sufficiat Onely faith is sufficient to vs for all other thinges Againe Illud vnum asseueraueâ—im quód sola fides per se salvum fecerit This I may affirme that only faith by it selfe saueth Againe Rursus illi dicebant qui sola fide nititur execrabilis est hic contrà demonstrat qui sola Idem in Galat. cap. 3 fide nititur eum benedictum esse They said hee that leaneth onely to faith is accursed but Paul on the contrarie part sheweth that hee that leaneth to faith onely is blessed Many such other places out of the Latine and Greeke Fathers I might produce but I omit them I hope hee will not say that these Fathers which deliuered this doctrine of solifidian faith as he disdainfully termeth it did ouerthrow repentance mortification and all other vertues Nay this true faith which neither falsely nor fantistically but truly and effectually apprehendeth Christs death and passion and applieth the same as a most soueraigne salue to cure all the sores of our soules is that which giueth life to repentance mortification and all other verâ—â—es For as faith without workes is dead as S. Iames saith so workes Iames 2. 26 Cyril in exposit Symbol Nâ—â—â—n tom 1. Concil pag. 543 Chry in 1 ad Timot Hom. 5. without faith are dead as Cyril and Chrysostome say And we truly auerre that this true faith in Gods merifull promises by the which Christ doth dwel in our hearts cannot be seuered from charitie vertues and good workes as hee falsely affirmeth but faintly and foolishly prooueth that it may His first reason is taken from experience because few or none of vs haue faith for that few or none of vs haue these workes How many or few of vs haue faith and good workes you are no competent iudge for to determine And therefore wee appeale from your affectionate and erronious iudgement to the true and iust iudgement of God I doubt not but before I haue ended this article to proue that we be not so void of good workes and so ful of abhominable wickednesse as your Popes and spitefull spiritualty hath beene Your second proofe you will draw out of the Scripture that all faith yea and the most noble faith which hath 1. Cor. 13. force to remoue mountaines may be without charitie I answere that Saint Paul speaketh not there of the faith of Tit. â—â—1 Math. 7. Gods elect but of that which is a gift to worke miracles which may bee in wicked reprobates such as Iudas was and so doth Oecumenius the Greeke Scholiast expound it in these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Oecumen in 1. Cor. 13 He speaketh not of the common and Catholike faith of the faithfull but of a certaine gift of faith â—or there was a certaine kinde of gift which by an equiuocation was called faith So that S. Paul as hee had before compared charity with the gift of tongues and with the gift of prophesying so here he compareth it with the gift of doing miracles And as those gifts may be in the wicked seuered from charity so also may this Some writers also in the former chapter where S. Paul saith To another is giuen â— Cor. 12. 9. faith by the same spirit do expound it of the particular faith of doing miracles As Theophilactus Non fides dâ—gmatum Theophilact in 1. Cor. 12 sed miraculorum quae montes transfert He speaketh not of faith of doctrine but of miracles which mooueth mountaines And therefore S. Paul meaneth that if the whole faith which is in doers of miracles were in him separated from charitie as it may bee hee were nothing But that faith by which Christ dwelleth in the hearts of his elect neither is nor can be separated from charitie but Gâ—lath 5. 6. worketh by it And therefore S. Paul in his gratulations in the beginning of his Epistles doth alwaies ioyne them togither as being such graces of Gods spirit which be neuer separated asunder Hearing of the faith which ye haue in Ephes 1. 15. Coloss 14. 1. Thess 1 3 2. Thess 1 3 Philem. 1 5. â—ebr 12 the Lord Iesus and loue towards all the Saints To conclude this point that this doctrine doth not tend to loosenes of life we teach that they which doe not follow peace and holinesse shall neuer see God and that good workes are the waies wherein wee must walke to the kingdome of God and eternall life to the which they that doe not walke in them shall neuer come For without the holy Citie shall bee dogs and enchaunters and whoremongers and murtherers Apocal. 22. 15 idolaters and whosoeuer loueth or maketh lies And although good fruites make not the tree good yet they be necessarie effects of a good tree so euery tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be out downe and cast into the fire Mâ—th 3 10. The third doctrine of ours which you vntruely charge to tend to loosenes of life is That faith once had can neuer be lost the which vaine securitie you say openeth the gap to all libertine sensualitie and hereat you make great exclamations Here I will first cleere the doctrine and afterward answere your vaine cauillations and needlesse exclamations Faith is diuers waies taken in the holie Scriptures First it is taken for the doctrine of faith or the Gospell which we beleeue as By whom wee haue receâ—ued Rom. 1 5 grace and Apostleship to the obedience of faith aâ—ong al Gentiles that is that all nations might obey the Gospell Also to the Galathians This onely would I know oâ— you Receiued Galat. 3 2. ye the spirit by the workes of the law or by the hearing of fâ—â—th that is by hearing the Gospell preached So wee call the Christian faith and the Apostolicall faith In this sense faith being taken for the doctrine of the Gospell we confesse that many may know it make profession of it and historically beleeue it and yet afterwards may fall from it as Iudas and many in Asia did Secondly it is taken for 2. Tim. 1. 15. that promise which wee make in Baptisme whereby wee binde our selues to professe true religion to beleeue in God in whose name we be baptized Hereof S. Paul speaketh Refuse the yonger widowes for when they haue begun to waxe wanton against Christ they will â—arrie hauing â—amnation 1.
mulieribus quas ad confessionem admittunt Scelestissimè fornicantur Luk 2. cap. 37. 1. They Priests do often most wickedly commit fornication with the women of there parishes which they admit to confession The like writeth Marsilius Patauinus in his booke intituled Desensor Pacis part 2. ca. 6. pag. 286. To your sixt accusation I answere that we exclude and banish our Sauiour Christ neither from the Sacrament of his supper nor from the hearts of the faithfull but acknowledge that as by faith hee dwelleth in the one so by Ephes 3 17 2. Cor. 13 5 the same hee is receiued of the Godly in the other Your false and grosse doctrine of Transsubstantiation which the Greeke Church neuer beleeued and the Latine Church lately defined as Erasmus saith wee iustly reiect and condemne â—râ—s Anno â—â— in 1. Cor. 7 We exhort men when they come to receiue that holy mysterie the Sacrament and pledge of our saluation in Christ to examine themselues and so to eate of that bread and drinke of that cup For hee that eate haâ—d drinketh vnworthily 1. Cor. 11. â—8 eateth and drinketh his owne damnation because he discerneth not the Lords bodie But if as you say sinfull liues consorte not with his sacred mysterie I meruaile how your Priests liues consorted with it which how holy they were I will shew hereafter Lastly you charge vs with a new negatiue religion wholy standing vpon negation of Sacraments ceremonies rites lawes customes and other practicall points of the Catholike Church wherevnto I answere that we deny nothing that God hath commanded in the holy canonicall Scripture the which as I haue before shewed is the onely rule of our Religion and life Indeede wee deny and defie your trifling traditions and vnwritten vanities and inuentions with the which you haue gone a whoring as the Prophet saith If you can shew that wee deny any thing which Psal 106. 39 God hath commaunded as wee can plainely prooue that you doe then spare not to charge vs with a new negatiue religion You deny the sufficiencie of the Scriptures and that all doctrine necessarie to saluation is contayned in them You deny the same Scriptures to bee in the vulgar tongue for all Gods people to reade and heare to their comfort You deny praier and the publicke seruice of God to be in the same vulgar tongue You deny Christ to bee our only mediator between God vs. You deny the Cup of Christs supper to Gods people You deny the lawful authority which Princes haue ouer their people subiects in all causes ecclesiasticall and temporall You deny mariage to ecclesiasticall ministers whereby what great and horrible wickednesse you haue caused I will hereafter declare You say we bring in for fasting feasting for praying playing c. Concerning your fasting consisting in a superstitious obseruing of times and diuersitie of meates and tending to the honouring of Saints and satisfying Gods iustice for your sinnes we deny it But fasting purely vsed according to Gods word to humble our soules before God to mortifie the wicked affections of our sinful flesh we allow and especially that great and principall fast in abstayning from sinne whereof Saint Augustine speaketh in these words Ieiunium autem magnum generale August in Ioan traâ—l â—7 distinct de consecra cap. Ieiunium est abstinere ab iniquitatibus ab illicitis voluptatibus seculi quod est perfectum ieiâ—nium in hoc seculo The great and generall fast is to abstaine from iniquities and vnlawfull pleasures of the world which is the perfect fast in this world Chrysostome saith Ieiunium dico abstinentiam à vitiis I say that fasting which is to abstaine from vices Chrysost in Genes hom 8. Hereby let it be discerned who doe most truely fast In deede I know that it is your manner much to glory in your writings and speeches of your outward fasting from meates as the Pharisee in the Gospell did who gloried Luke 18. 12. that he fasted twise a weeke which neither God in his law had required nor the Apostles of Christ for any thing wee reade vsed Whereby wee may note that true Godlines neither is to bee measured by such outward abstinece from meates nor is alwaies ioyned with it Iohn Matth. 11. 18 Baptist vsed greater austerity in his diet and abstinence from meates then our Sauiour Christ did yet was his life nothing so holy Iohns Disciples vsed more fasting Matth. 9. 14. then the Disciples of our Sauiour Christ did Yet it is not to be doubted but our Sauiours Disciples liued as godly or Tertul de Iâ—iâ—nio adueâ—s Psichicos Hierom. in Aggaeum cap. 1. pag. 230. more then they did The Montanists Heretikes were greater fasters then were the true Christians as Tertullian sheweth And S. Hierome writeth that they obserued three Lents in a yeare and yet were Heretikes condemned by the Church of God although then fauored by the Bishop of Rome as Tertullian sheweth in the beginning of his booke against Praxeas The Iewes vsed such great abstinence and fasting that they brought weakenes and sickenesse to their bodies as Saint Hierome writeth who neuerthe Hierorymus ad Algaesiam quast 10. lesse were enemies to our Sauiour Christ The Moscouites which neuer acknowledged the Popes authority be as great fasters as Papists are And so also be the Turkes And therefore these men neede not to boast so much of 1. Tim. 4. 8. their fasting Saint Paul saith that bodily exercise profiteth little but godlines is profitable to all things hath the promise of this life present that which is to come Howbeit as I will not deny but that there may be lesse fasting and more feasting then were requisit yet that there is more feasting and superfluitie in fare now especially in ecclesiastical persons I thinke it will be to hard for this man to proue Whence came these phrases As fat as an Abbot he hath a face like an Abbot and an Abbey Lubber but of their immoderate fare and feeding And how these men were giuen to gluttony excesse I will shew at this time but by one example Giraldus Cambrensis in his Book intituled Speculum Ecclesiae writeth that the Abbot and Monkes of Saint Swithens in Winchester came to King Henry the second hunting at Gilford in Surrey and fell downe in myre and durt before him pittifully crying out The King asked them what was the matter They answered that their Bishoppe had taken three dishes of meate from their dinners and suppers He asked them how many he had left vnto them They answered tenne but from the foundation of their house they had vsed daily to haue thirteen dishes at a meale The King turned to his Nobles and said By the eyes of God for that was his oath I thought their house had beene burnt and now I see it is but a matter concerning their paunches And then turning to the Abbots and Monkes
and opinions were euen the same which as you haue heard were maintained by the good faithfull people called Waldenses Pauperes de Lugduno Maister Fox sheweth out of Nicholas Triuet who died anno 1328. that the Albingenses Act. monumen tom 1 p. 299. 2. edit onis denyed transubstantiation in the Sacraments of Christs body and blood and that matriymony was not a Sacrament and further writeth that in some Error hee found that they did deale against the wanton Iâ— il pag. 35. wealth pride and tyranny of the Prelates and denied the popes authority to haue any ground of the Scriptures and that they could not away with there ceremonies and traditions as images pardons purgatory of the Romish Church calling them as some say blasphemous occupyings c. Henry Pantalion in his Chronographie affirmeth out of P. Aemilius that they denied Christs body Pag 98. to be in the bread of the Eucharist And a little before he writeth that one Hoyry a learned Monke of Tolosa did Pag 92. teach that prayers for the dead and to the dead excomucations of priests Pilgrimages consecrations of Chrisme are all vnprofitable wherevpon he was condemned Thus I haue shewed to satisfie this mans longing desire what I haue read of their Albingenses by which I haue bene moued to conceaue a good opinion of them and to accompt them for witnesses of Gods truth for the which they were so cruelly presecuted and destroyed by that Beast to whom Apacâ— 13 7. it was giuen to make warre with the Saintes and to ouercome them I doe confesse that I haue also reade not onely in this pelting paper but also in lying and prating Prateclus and other malitious enemies of Gods truth of other filthy and false opinions asscribed to them But this is no new deuise of the diuell but an old stratageme to attribute to the faithfull and Godly faulse titles and slanderous and filthy opinions and practises to bring them into hatred and to moue the world to persecute and destroy them So was Iesus Christ the sonne of God intreated being called a Samaritane a deceauer of the people and by Belzebub Math. 27 63. Luke 23 2. Math 12. 24. 9. 34. Act 24. the Prince of diuels to cast out diuels So was Saint Paul vsed being tearmed a pestilent and seditious fellow and chiefe maiâ—tainer of the herisie of the Nazarens So were the Christians in the primitiue Church handled who were slandered to kill children to eate their flesh and to Turtull in Apolog. drinke there bloud and in there assembles hauing put out the candles to commit adultery and incests So doth Gabr. pratcoleleuch haerae lib. 14 13. paup ac Lâ—gd that lying companion Gabriel Prateolus and the writer of this scroule deale with the walldenses otherwaiâ—â—â—lled Pauperaes de Lugduno whome they affirme to hold that carnall copulation betwixt men and women when the lust of the flesh burneth is lawfull to wome Aeneas Siluius doth not ascribe any such opinion In those daies the Papists were not growne to such impudencie in lying as now they are Thus wee see that it ought not to seeme strange vnto vs for filthy facts and false doctrines to be by malitious enemies falsely imputed to Gods true Saints and seruantes It were rather a maruaile if the diuell being by name and long practise a Slaunderer should leaue his old occupation in slaundering and defaming the faithfull fauorers of Gods truth But this man saith that I dissent from those Bishops D. Cowper and Iewell I answere that as I doe reuerence the memory of them so I do nothing herein differ from them For concerning B Cowper I say that not he but Sir Thomas Eliot did sette downe in the dictionary all that therein is written of the Albingenses and Albanenses as appeareth by the first edition of it by Sir Thomas Eliot himselfe printed by Thomas Barthâ—let anno Dom. 15. 42. hauing this title Bibâ—otheca Eliotae Eliotes Librarie There the reader shall find all those thinges written of the Albingenses and Albanenses without addition detraction or alteration before D. Cowper did deale in it D. Cowper in supplying of wordes that there wanted did leaue these things and such like especially concerning proper names as he found them and not as he himselfe did iudge of them As for the difference in iudgement betwixt Sir Thomas Eliot and mee concerning these Albingenses although I doe greatly reuerence the memorie of him for his learning and for his good labours to the aduancing thereof yet I doe not thinke my selfe bound to stand to his iudgement therein who might bee to much carried away with the corrupt errors which ouer much swaied in his time whereby hee did to little espic the diuels accustomed deuise and practise before mentioned much credit the false reports of their malicious aduersaries As touching that pretious Iewell and most learned Bishoppe whereas D. Harding writeth thus If ye meane Hus Hierome of prage Wicklesse Almarâ—rke Abâ—lard the Apostolikes Consuta of the Apolâ—g Peterbuisians Berenâ—arians Waldenses Albingenses Image-breakers and such like which euer found fauâ—te with the Church c he answereth in these words Of Abailard Defens of the Apolâ—g and Almerike and certaine other your strange names if they haue taught any thinge contrary to the truth of God we haue no skill they are none of ours of Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage and Berengarius and other like vertuous men wee haue no cause to be a hamed c. This is all that Bishop Iewel saith in which words he doth not once name the Albingenses much lesse impute those filthy and false opinions to them Nether doth he absolutely affirme that Abailaâ—d and Almarike or any of the rest maintained any thing contrary to the truth of God but conditionly saith if they taught any thing coâ—trary to the truth of God we haue no skill they are none of ours to the which I say Amen But that B. Iewel did not accompt the Albingenses for wicked heretikes it may hereby appeare in that hee thought well of the See defens of the Apolo vt 1. cap. 2. diuis 1. part 4. â—â—p 1â— diuis 1. pag. 503. Waldenses which were the same that were the Albingenses as I haue before shewed but diuersly called in diuers places and did repute them for good and Godly men By this that I haue said the iudicious reader may see that there is no difference at all betwixt me and these reuerend and learned Bishops concerning the Albingenses as this ignorant Romanist doth vainely imagine And if there had beene some diuersity in iudgement herein betwixt vs I in thinking well and they in hardly iudging of them it had bene a matter of no great moment Heretofore vnder â—latiâ—a in Bonifac 8. Gabr. prateo pag. 206. Popery many worshipped Herman of Ferrara for a Saint whome Pope Boniface the 8. caused to be digged vp and burned for an heritike Some Popes