Preach according to the Articles you have subscribed or not But by the way I observe Tim. you have a Whisking Faculty at handling to handle Three such Points in two half hours or thereabouts Tim. Nay I was not longer yet performed so well that I had as many thankful scrapes as Dr. O. himself for his long interwoven Discourse of late at Tit. 'T is like you might have as many Tongues but I doubt not so many Guineys as he Tim. Guineys what are they Tit. Now I see thou art ignorant of something besides the Articles Guineys they are the great Procurers of Advousons Presentations and Ecclesiastical Preferments their Principal Residence is about the Court and they sometimes help a Church-man at a dead lift when Merits and Friends both fail Tim. I wish I could meet with one of these Courteous Gentlemen I am sure none ever stood in more need of his Assistance Tit. One no less than some hundreds according as the Place may be Thousands will do you any kindness at all Tim. Nay then I despair for having lived Forty years and never met with one 't is more than probable I shall be dead before I procure a Thousand to stand my Friends Tit. It will do you more good to understand the Articles of the Church and practise them for that will make you happier in Forty years more than all the Guineys in England can Therefore push on to the next Article V. The Holy Ghost proceeding from the Father and the Son is of one Substance Majesty and Glory with the Father and the Son very and eternal God Tit. Here I hope you are found too Tim. Yes truly for the Athanasian Creed teacheth me thus much touching the Holy Ghost which Creed I have often Repeated and do most stedfastly believe Tit. I wish all that have subscribed this Article could say as much But let us have the Sixth Article VI. Tim. Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to Salvation so that whatsoever is not read therein nor may be proved thereby is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an Article of the Faith or be thought requisite or necessary to Salvation In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those Canonical Books of the Old and New Testament of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church Tit. As to this I hope you are perfectly Orthodox Tim. So perfectly that I wish all but the Canonical Books of Scripture had been left out of our Calendar for since our Church here Affirms that these Contain all things necessary to Salvation and consequently are sufficient for Example of Life and instruction of Manners I think we might have made a pretty good shift with these especially on Sundays without Tobias Bell and the Dragon with the use of the Apocraphites Tit. And I Assure you if our Calendar were to suffer a new impression and I were the Corrector I should not boggle much to gratifie you in this Opinion Tim. I thank you for your good will but since it is not in my power nor yours to amend it we must be content and make as much use of the former and as little of the latter as possibly we may Tit. Very good I wish we agree in the next as well as we do in this Article VII The Old Testament is not Contrary to the New for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ who is the only Mediator between God and Man being both God and Man Wherefore they are not to be heard which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises Although the Law given from God by Moses as touching Ceremonies and Rites do not bind Christian men nor the civil Precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any Common-Wealth Yet notwithstanding no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral Tit. This Article hath a great Deal in it Tim. Where lies it I don't perceive it Tit. No Why it Requires of every Christian Man Obedience to all the Commands called Moral now how do you Comport with it in your Practice Tim. I own it Obedience is Due to all the Commands that are Moral Tit. Why is there any that is not Moral Tim. Yes I think so Tit. Which is that Tim. The Fourth Tit. Why so Don't the Article term it so Tim. I can't tell I don't believe it Tit. Nor a great many besides you who have subscribed this Article yet deny the sence of it Tim. I must be plain In troth I hold it no more moral than All Saints or the Fifth of November Tit. I thought somewhat was the matter you make so slight of it Why doth the Church require all her Members when this Command is read to say Lord have mercy upon us and incline our hearts to keep this Law c. that you can share one half of it Weekly to your own use and Service Tim. And I hope no Offence Tit. And as you give your People leave in the Afternoon so many of them take leave for the Forenoon and thus you share the whole betwixt you leaving the rest to God Almighty Yet no Offence I hope Tim. If it be Moral why is it not perpetuall without Alteration Tit. 'T is the shameful Prophanation of this Day by you and such as have Sucked in your Principles that hath Ushered in so much Irreligion amongst us and helped to pull down such severe Judgments upon us But hoping being better informed you will become reformed hear me a little as to this point Tim. When you have said all you can you can never prove it Moral and perpetual Tit. You have owned 't is so by your Subscription of this Article and will you now question it Tim. Yes I do for I knew not there was any such Article amongst them if I had known it I Tit. Nay never Repent you have done it for you have no cause if you understood as you ought Tim. Understand what Tit. That the Morality of this Fourth Command lies not in observing the Seventh day from the Creation for the Fourth Commandment doth not require to use and sanctifie the Seventh Day from the Creation not from any other period or Date of time but only the Seventh Day after Six of Labour or coming between Six of Labour in a settled Course of Numbring from any Period that God should appoint and so in the Meaning of that Commandment we do now and ever must use the Seventh Day For the Seventh is that part in order of Numbering which still comes between Six having Six before it and Six after it continually and so our Sunday our Day of rest hath and therefore we also rest the Seventh Day Tim. I deny it ours is the first not the Seventh Tit. And the Seventh as much as the first the first of our Week and Seventh after Six of Labour Indeed the Period
from which we take the beginning of our Account is not the same but another from the Jews for they did Reckon from the beginning of the Creation and so forward we from the Resurrection and so forward but ours is as truely and surely the Seventh as theirs though Reckoned from another Period and as for the Period whence the account must be made we have no word at all in the Precept For the Precept saith not Six Days from the Creation thou shalt labour and the Seventh from the Creation is the Sabbath of the Lord but Six Days shalt thou labour nor doth it say The Lord blessed and Sanctified the Seventh Day from the Creation but the Sabbath Day that is the Seventh after Six of labour Tim. And what do you understand by all this Tit. I understand what I suppose the Article Enjoynes by Requiring every Christian to yield obedience to the Commandments and so to this Fourth among the rest viz. That you and I and every Christian is oblidg'd by vertue of this Command for ever to rest every Seventh day after Six from all labour Recreation c. and to Dedicate it in Solemn manner wholly to the worship and Service of God by preaching Reading Praying and other Holy Religious Duties and Exercises both in Publick and Private Consider this a little and give me your thoughts Tim. I need not much time to Study I have in the Company I have been Conversant with some Clergy men as well as others heard the Sabbath so Decryed and the strickt Observation of it so slighted and vilified that I thought there was little in it more than another day But for the future I hope I shall be more diligent in preparing for it and more strickt and serious in the Observation of it than ever I have been Tit. You will do very well and to endeavour to bring it into greater esteem and veneration with the people wherever you come for the life of all Religion amongst us consists in a due keeping this day and believe it our own practice in this regard will prevail more than our Preaching Inasmuch as Examples are of more force with men than Precepts And 't is our Obedience to Gods Commands which must evidence the sincerity of our Faith contained in the Creeds mentioned in the next Article Article VIII The three Creeds Nice Creed Athanasius Creed and that which is commonly called the Apostles Creed ought throughly to be received and believed for they may be proved by most certain warrants of Holy Scripture Tit. Touching this I think I need not question you for though you never see them in the Articles before yet you have often Read them in the Common-Prayer and I suppose with hearty assent to the Articles of Christian Faith contained in them Tim. I do so Tim. Let us therefore hear the next viz. Article IX Original Sin standeth not in the following of Adam as the Pelagians do vainly talk but it is the fault and corruption of the nature of every man that naturally is ingendred of the off-spring of Adam whereby man is very far gone from Original Righteousness and is of his own Nature inclined to evil so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the Spirit and therefore in every person born into this world it deserveth Gods wrath and damnation And this infection of Nature doth remain yea in them that are regenerated whereby the lust of the Flesh called in Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which some do expound the wisdom some sensuality some the affection some the desire of the flesh is not subject to the Law od And although there is no condemnation for them that Believe and are Baptized yet the Apostle doth confess that concupisence and lust hath of it self the nature of sin Tit. If I remember right at Reading the second Article you discovered your self a little infirm and faulty about Original sin calling it only a privation of Original Righteousness what think you now Tim. I think if I had Read this Article I should never have Subscribed it nor do I believe it now I have Subscribed it Tit. What nothing no part of it Tim. Truely very little a very small part of it Tit. Do you believe the Scriptures if you do I see no reason why we should not believe this found Article of our Church even every shred and Syllable of it For 1. It asserts that there is Original sin which is called sin Rom. 7.8 The sining sin Rom. 7.13 The sin that dwelleth in us Rom. 7 20. The sin that so easily besets us Heb. 11.1 The body of sin The body of Death The Law in the Members It is also called Fesh Rom. 7.23.24 Joh. 3.6 Rom. 7.5 Ro. 7.25 King 1.8.38 Heb. 12. Jam. 1.14 The old man The Law of sin The plague in ones own heart And the root of bitterness Besides the woful effects we find of it in our selves proves it As blindness in the mind darkness in understanding rebellion in the will c. with unholy and unclean affections proneness to sinful and aversness to Holy and Godly Actions 2. Next this Article teacheth us that this Original corruption remains in every man even in the Regenerate and this St. Paul acknowledgeth at large in Rom. 7. and Gal. 5.17 He saith the Flesh lusteth against the Spirit so that we cannot do the things we would And St. James Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own Lust And the best of Gods Children bewail the remainder and indwelling of this Lust and Corruption doubtless therefore our Church is right thus far 3. And also in saying in every person born into the world deserves Hell and Damnation for if it be sin as hath been proved already it can deserve no less Rom. 1.18 Colos 3.5.6 Jam. 1.15 Ro. 6.23 So that I can find nothing in this Article but may go down very well if Arminius or Socinus hath not turned your Stomach against it Tim. It can never enter into my Head that Adams sin he being but one should defile the Universal Nature Tit. I thought Socinus was in your Belly before now he looks out at your mouth 1 Cor. 15.47 Ro. 5.12.17 Adam had in him the whole Nature of mankind and by his one offence the whole Nature was defiled Tim. Adams sin was not voluntary in us we never gave gave consent to it Tit. There is a twofold will Voluntas Nature the whole Nature of man was represented in Adam therefore the will of Nature was sufficient to convey the sin Nature Volent as Personae and by every actual sin we justifie Adams breach of Covenant and that Text Rom. 5.12 19. seems clear for the imputation of Adams sin All were in Adam Peccatum Adami ita posterii imputatur ac si omnes idem peccatum patranissent Bellarm. Again Peccatum Originale tametsi ab Adamo est non tamen Adami sed nostrum est Tom. 4. l. 4. c. 3. 8. and sinned
You begin to shake me when I thought I had been invincibly setled and unconquerable you give me soft words but hard Arguments have you any more behind for I think long till this combat is ended Tit. Yes 2. I say further that if Christ descended to the place or seat of the damned it was either in his soul which the Scripture testifies went the day or moment of his Death into Paradise Luke 23.43 a place of Joy not torment and in the same Chapter he saith himself He commended his soul into the hand of his father in the same sense no doubt that St. Stephen did after his example Or else in his Body which we are assured by the same Infallible Spirit was in the grave till the third day the day of his Resurrection Mat. 12.40 Or else in his Godhead but to attribute descension to the Godhead is improper which is in all places at one and the same time nor is the Godhead subject to passion How then did he descend Tim. Nay I cannot particularize them but surely it was necessary he should do so Tit. Doubtless then it was done for Christ omitted nothing necessary to be done or suffered in order to the great redemption he was sent to accomplish But as the Scripture doth not clearly affirm it so to me it seems not of absolute necessity in order to our redemption that our surety should descend to the place of the damned and suffer there Tim. What are your reasons for this opinion Tit. Because the place of suffering is but a circumstance Hell the place of the damned is no part of the debt Christ was to pay nor suffering there locally any part of payment that we read of in the Gospel As the surety may satisfie the creditor in any place appointed for payment or in open Court which being done the debtor and surety are both acquitted and need not go to Prison If they be cast into Prison 't is because they do not pay the debt for all that Justice requires is the payment of the debt to which the Prison is meerly extrinsecal So the Justice of God cannot be satisfied for the transgression of his law but by the death of the sinner Now it doth not require that this be done or this satisfaction be made in Prison or in the place of the damned for the wicked go thither because they cannot pay the debt or make satisfaction But our surety Jesus Christ who undertook the debt for us hath made such full satisfaction on the Cross that himself said just before he gave up the Ghost Consummatum est the work was finished And the Apostles so understood Christ which made them ascribe all to his suffering or to the merit of his sufferings on the Cross as spoiling of principalities and powers by which is meant the power of darkness the Devils Col. 2.15 and the blotting out the hand-writing that was against us Col. 2.14 our reconciliation to God Col. 1.20 and tell us that he is able now to render us unblameable and unreproveable in the sight of God Col 22. Having by that offering of himself for ever perfected them that are sanctified Heb. 10.14 And if God is satisfied Mans Redemption perfected and Believers perfected by his Death I can see no necessity of the following descension into Hell Tim. This is all very rational and convincing But what makes you think that our Church doth not understand it of a local descension and require the belief of it as necessary to Salvation Tit. Two things have raised in me such an opinion viz. 1. Because she doth not here nor any where else that I can find give any such sense or interpretation of the words which were a very dangerous omission if the belief of it were necessary to salvation And 2. Because in her 8th Article where she mentions the 3. Creeds which she affirms agreeable to Scripture viz. the Apostles the Athanasian and Nicene Creed which she not only allows but enjoyns the use of in her Liturgy or publick Service hath in the last of these left the descention of Christ into Hell wholly out which she certainly would not have omitted but have inserted it here as well as in the Athanasian had she thought the belief of it necessary to salvation or designed to bind us to the belief of it for this were to render that Creed imperfect which she allows as perfect and according to Scripture Tim. Really my Stomach begins to turn at a local descention yet ere you can work a full Conversion you must Answer an Objection or two which I have swimming in my Noddle against what you have said Tit. Out with them Tim. and I 'le do the best I can to cleanse thy Stomach and Head too the latter being I fear as much oppressed with ill Notions as the former is with ill Humours Tim. My first Objection is this The Terrours and Torments which Christ Suffered in his Soul upon the Cross went before his Burial but his descention into Hell follows it in our Creed and Article therefore his descention in Hell concerns not these Torments Tit. Cunningly offered this discovers thee either Knave or Fool in Logick which you like best for the Minor of this Syllogism is faulty alledging Non Causa pro Causa or that for a Cause which is none For know 1. In the Creed our Saviours Descention into Hell is put after his Burial as an Illustration of what went before touching his Sufferings or Passion least any thing should be detracted from it and not that it was performed after it As if it had been said He not only suffered in Body and Dyed and was laid in the Grave but also suffered extream Tortures Hellish Torments in his Soul too such as made him cry-out on the Cross My God my God why hast thou forsaken me 2. And if you observe it Tim. you will find all along in the Creed a Procession in the Passion of our Lord from a lesser to a greater Suffering from the grief and pains of his Body to those of his Soul That he did suffer in his Soul greatly himself Affirms and we all believe Now where in all the Creed can you find any thing that may express his Soul-sufferings if not these Words He descended into Hell He suffered under Pontius Pilate was Crucified dead and buried is all which all might be and he suffer in his body only and this the Thieves suffered which were Crucified with him But his Descending into Hell implys somewhat more viz. Suffering in his Soul which is all the Judicious and Learned Hamon saith on that Text Ham. Act. 2.27 Thou wilt not leave my Soul in Hell And it is therefore put last or mentioned after his Death and Burial to shew that it was the greatest and sharpest part of Christs Sufferings 3. Moreover for the order of expressing it I meet with the very same Luke 16.23 The rich man dyed and was buried and when he was in
in him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and so our last Translation in the Margin Though it be rendered for that all have sinned yet must it be understood in him or sinned in Adam else it is not true that all upon whom death hath passed have sinned as namely Infants newly born Therefore 't is not said all are sinners but all have sinned which imports an imputation of Adams act unto his Posterity So that without question you and I are as guilty of this sin as if we had been present and joyned with Adam in it And the offering of another Adam to thee and me in the Church shews that the dispensation of God is not rigorous for we may share in his obedience as well as in the others disobedience It is as agreeable to the Wisdom and Justice of God by the sin of the First Adam to entail death upon all his Children as to the Wisdom and Grace of God by the Obedience and Righteousness of the Second Adam to confer Life upon his Children Have I said any thing towards your Conviction Tim. Yes a great deal but to little purpose for I don't understand this putative sin and putative Righteousness of the First and Second Adam Tit. Take heed Tim. of making a mock of these serious matters I could tell where you learned that word putative for a need But as merry as you and your Companions make your selves with it know that if imputative Righteousness don't justifie you you are in a worse condition than the Scribes and Pharisees whose Righteousness Legal I am afraid exceeded yours and yet insufficient to carry them to Heaven Matth. 5.20 And St. Paul who was as to the Law blameless doth yet desire not to be found in his own Righteousness but that which is by Faith through Christ Jesus the Righteousness putative as you in derision term it which is in God by Faith Phil. 3.9 But of this in a more proper place I only demand this of you Tim. that though you plaid the fool in subscribing this Article before you Read it yet that you would not play the Knave in disowning it now you have Subscribed it making a mock of it for you must needs understand it if you understand English for never any thing said more plainly that there is Original sin in all remaining in the best of men and that Adams sin is so far ours as we deserve Hell and Damnation for it And assure your self unless after this warning I hear you are Reformed as to this matter I shall acquaint the Bishop what a Subscriber and maintainer you are of the Articles of our Church who I doubt not will call you to an account For I stedfastly believe his Lordship holds it a less sin to be defective in the Ceremonies than in the Articles and will sooner Suspend for the latter than the former But I hope you will give me no cause especially when you have Read the next Article X. The condition of man after the fall of Adam is such That he cannot turn and prepare himself by his own natural strength and good works to faith and calling upon God Wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasant and acceptable to God without the Grace of God by Christ preventing us that we may have a good will and working with us when we have that good will Tit. The following Article Concords so well with this that 't is pitty to part them if you will therefore Read that too before we proceed farther Tim. I shall Article XI We are accounted Righteous before God only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith and not for our own works or deservings Wherefore that we are Justified by Faith only is a most wholsome Doctrine and very full of comfort as more largely is expressed in the Homily of Justification Tit. As to these two Articles I need not ask your Opinion for I know you to be as rotten in these as an Egg nine days sat on Free Will and the necessity and efficacy of Works to Justifie without putative Righteousness is so much your tone in the Pulpit that the very Bells in the Steeple have learned the Tune And when you are approaching the Church the least jar out of it puts you into such an Arminian chafe that the Bells are presently forsooth Calvinistical Bells the Ringers Calvinistical Rogues wishing the Ropes in their hands fast about their Necks An admirable Devotion at your first entrance into Gods House Tim. And there are more of this Opinion besides my self Tit. What Opinion That the Ninth Tenth and Eleventh Chapters to the Romans were foisted into that Epistle by Calvin or at least he had an hand in Composing our Articles Tim. No neither but for Free Will and Justification without putative Righteousness that Christ came chiefly to be an Example to us and not to Justifie us by the imputation of his Righteousness this is the Opinion I know many are of besides me Tit. Aye too many but for you and I and those men you mean who have consented and Subscribed to these Articles to talk at this rate I must tell you is a fault not to be born with whatever others say that are free we that are obliged by Promises and Subscriptions should be honest and true to them Tim. Honest and True Yes so I ought but I have learned better since my Subscription and I hope you will give a man leave to improve his Reason and Understanding Tit. Yes by all means but suppose you were called to Subscribe these very Articles word for word again now your Reason is so mightily improved what would you do Tim. A needless question for that 's not likely Tit. Why not Put case the Patron of a Good that is a great Living or about two hundred or three hundred pounds per annum should out of his Generosity freely offer you the Presentation to it would you refuse his kindness rather than Subscratch for it Tim. I am afraid I should scarce withstand the force of so taking a temptation Tit. And you would Read them openly in the Parish Church the people being present and openly declare your approbation of them and full consent to them as the Law requires rather than lose such a Benefice Tim. I believe I should I wish some body would try me Tit. And Preach and Prate against them or contrary to them when you had done ha Tim. Not directly Tit. Directly or indirectly directly you would be a Knave for your pains not to say worse Tim. You would not have me talk contrary to what I believe would you Tit. What is that Tim. I believe every man hath a power and freedom of Will to good Works as well as Evil. Tit. What Naturally and in an unregenerate Estate Tim. Yes Tit. This is contrary to the Tenth Article as Aye and No directly Opposite to Scripture Which saith the Carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to
The Fourth Part of Naked Truth OR THE COMPLAINT OF THE CHURCH To some of Her SONS For breach of HER ARTICLES In a Friendly Dialogue between TITVS and TIMOTHY both Ministers of the Church of England By a Legal Son and sincere Conformist to the Church of England as established by Law Non recipit mendacium veritas nec patitur religio impietatem D. Hillar Non temerè dico sed ut affectus sum ac ut sentio non arbitror Sacerdotes multos esse qui salvi fiant sed multò plures qui pereant Chrys Hom. 3. in Act. Apost Neque enim aliorum salutem sedulò unquam curabit qui suam negligit Calvin LONDON Printed for Richard Janeway in Queens-head Alley in Pater-noster-Row 1682. Naked Truth THE FOURTH PART Titus REverend Tim well met I have thought long for a little serious discourse with thee and now opportunity favours me Come here a convenient Arbour let 's sit down and enjoy one another one quarter of an hour Tim. Enjoy one another prithee I can't enjoy my self Tit. Bless me What dost mean Tim. I mean I can't I won't talk Tit. I confess you have some ill symptoms upon you are you not well Sir Tim. No not so well as I would be Tit. Why who or what would you be Tim. I would be a Bishop Dean Archdeacon or a fat Pastor at least Tit. I commend thee Tim as mad as thou art I see thou wilt wish no harm to thy self And though I never reckoned thy Stars so lucky as to exalt thee to a Bishoprick or Deanary yet were it not that thy threadbear Cassock and superannuated Beaver suit it not I should have thought a lusty Parsonage or plentifully endowed Vicaridge had been thy lot long ere this Tim. No in truth no such plumbs will fall in my dish Tit. Where lies thy misfortune Tim. In my Conformity which is too scanty yet I know not any punctilio required wherein I have fail'd Tit. Fail'd no thou art so perfectly innocent in this matter that if thou wilt call me before the Bishop I will witness for thee Tim. Witness what will you witness Tit. That which if any thing will do you a kindness and help you to your desired preferment Tim. What 's that Tit. In short I can testifie verbo Sacerdotis that thou art so far from being defective that thou art redundant out-doest the Act for Conformity it self in Practice and many of the 39. Articles in Doctrine Tim. Good Mr. Titus you make my heart leap within me I should begin to be proud of my self if you would but explain your meaning Tit. Nay not too proud Tim neither for you are not the only man doth this there are many too many such Conformists besides you Tim. Good still The more the merrier Tit. True but the fewer the better cheer Tim. Well but your meaning You say I and some others out-do the very Act of Conformity in Practice and many of the 39. Articles in Doctrine Your meaning now Tit. That is in plain English you use those Ceremonies which the Act for Uniformity enjoyns not and preach such Doctrines as the Articles of our Church the standing Rule next the Scriptures for our preaching allow not This do you and many more of our brethren in the Church Tim. 'T is easily said but how do you prove it Tit. The thing proves it self only by having recourse to the Act and to the Articles and comparing what you do and say with these touchstones But before we meddle with proof let me ask thee a question or two Tim and prithee answer me seriously come here 's no body hears but thee and I. First didst thou ever peruse the Act of Uniformity Tim. Never in all my life what need I I know my duty without reading the Act. Tit. Huge well no doubt Next did you ever for you never yet were possessed of a Benefice though you often possess the Pulpit for half an hour or so did you I say ever seriously read and consider the Articles of our Church Tim. No neither Tit. But you have subscribed them have you not Tim. Yes Tit. And not read them Tim. No. Tit. A hopeful youth I wish you were single subscribe you know not what and this makes you preach you know not what rise a note beyond Ela and to out do all your sober brethren preach down the Doctrines of the Church you ought to maintain and destroy with your tongue what you have subscribed to preserve with your hand This makes our enemies on both sides laugh in their sleeves to see so many profound Drs. sin for ignorance sake and some for interest sake rend in peices our very foundations preach and write contrary to each other as if the only contest were not who shall be the honestest and most conscientious but the greatest Church-man For go to this Congregation and there Dr. Socinus preaches to that and there the Reverend Arminius holds forth to a third and there the much admired Calvin is reading a Geneva Lecture yet all of the Church of England and all subscribers to her Articles This is fine indeed don't you think so Tim. I shall think nothing till you come to prove something Tit. Well remembred First then I am to prove that you and many more of your Cue use some Ceremonies which the Act of Uniformity doth not enjoyn and consequently do more than you need or shall have thanks for from our Lawmakers Tim. Ay that prove that Tit. Thus then Tim That Act requires the use of no more Ceremonies than are contained and prescribed in the Book of Common Prayer The Act for Uniform Caroli 2d 14. if therefore you use any Ceremonies not contained and prescribed in the Book of Common Prayer you use more than the Act requires Tim. What are those Ceremonies contained and prescribed in the Liturgy or Common-Prayer-Book Tit. The Surplice the Cross in Baptism and kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper Tim. Goodman Ninny and do I use any more than these Tit. Yes Goodman Confidence and more besides you too Tim. Which be they Tit. What think you of bowing at the name of Jesus and bowing to or towards the Altar Are not these as much and as great Ceremonies as either of the former Tim. Granted and as innocent too Tit. That 's not the case but are they enjoyned For if saying this or that is an innocent Ceremony will justifie the making and use of it we may quickly have as many as the Church of Rome her self and then what 's become of our Reformation for all her Ceremonies are innocent her self being Judge But where I say again are these required Tim. In the Liturgy are they not Tit. Not in that which my Church-Wardens bought for me and they tell me they are sure they bought the newest Edition Tim. I 'le protest you 've stunded me I le consider of it Tit. Consider it be ashamed of it for you transgress the Law as
Hell c. No doubt his Soul was in Hell before his Body was in the Grave and yet his Burial is put first by our Saviour and his Soul-sufferings afterwards as being onely a higher and farther degree of Misery So in the Creed it is said or in the Article Christ was Dead Buried and descended into Hell or suffered in his Soul Hellish Torments as the sense of Gods Wrath the loss of Gods sight and presence for a time due for our Sins Not that his Death was before his Sufferings in his Soul but these are mentioned last as being the greatest far greater than the Death of the Body and the highest degree of Christs Passion and Humiliation And to Conclude otherwise as that Christ could not or did not suffer in his Soul these Hellish Torments before his Death or Burial because mentioned after both is all one as if you should infer that never any went to Hell before they were Buried because it is said in that fore-mentioned Text That the Rich man Died was Buried and when he was in Hell c. which were a gross Error and contrary to Scripture Nay then it will follow that the Soul cannot go to Hell so long as the Body remains unburied an inference so absurd that a man of any Reason or Religion will neither make nor own it What say you Tim. are we over this stile Tim. Pretty well Thanks to you for the good lift you gave me but there is another yet behind as hard to clamber as the former at which I doubt we shall both stick Tit. Never fear it man I 'le heave with both hands but I 'le have you over now we are come thus far What is it Tim. Seeing these words He Descended into Hell are so dubious and have caused such a Controversie why are they not wholly left out of our Articles and Creed Tit. I see you were more afraid than hurt for your frightful Objection is dwindled into a little Question this Bar is so low you may almost go over without help were you not so very weak However that I may not leave you behind know first that every thing that is a Controversie is not an Heresie either in matter of Doctrine or Faith and therefore not presently to be Expunged out of our Creed And since it hath been received by the Church in all Ages since the Fourth Century as Bellarm. tells us and being rightly understood contains in it a truth according to godliness yea necessary to be believed unto Salvation as the Sufferings of Christ in his Soul and continuing in the state of the Dead for a time I say it being so antient and rightly understood so necessary we may not leave it out but retain it to the Edification of our Faith and Consolation of our Souls Secondly If because there hath been some difference or dispute about the meaning of this Phrase in our Creed or Articles we should presently abandon it by the same Rule we must expunge many Texts of Scripture out of our Bible as those that concern the Doctrine of Election and Reprobation Free-will Falling away from Grace c. Controverted by Learned men on both sides and of different Perswasions This is no Rule for putting out of the Articles of our Faith therefore barely because Controversies have risen about the meaning and sense of it But I have been too prolix already therefore let us dismiss this Point Tim. No I am so well satisfied that I must entreat you to give me the Sum of what you said as brief as you can for my Memory is very short and I would fain retain somewhat if Possible Tit. The short then is this There are I say these two different senses of these words He Descended into Hell Which is the Opinion of some of the Antients and all the Papists Some thereby understand literally a Local Descension into the Place or State of the Damned to conquer the Devils and so set free those Souls that were kept in Hell till Christs Descension Others understand no more than a further degree of Humiliation then his Death and Burial Namely the continuing under the Power of Death for a time or of the Sufferings in his Soul on the Cross whereon our Blessed Saviour was humbled usque ad Inferni tremenda tormenta or endured for a time those Torments Quae reprobi in aeternum sensuri sunt Which the wicked shall Eternally suffer in Hell As the loss of the sense of Gods favour This is the Opinion of some Fathers and most of our Modern Reformed fines the Malediction or Wrath of God in his Soul which is Hell or that Fire which shall never be quenched In which Christ himself for a time was scorched for our Sins And therefore may truly enough be said To Descend into Hell These Brother Tim. are the two senses which of these now do you apprehend the most agreeable to Scripture and the Analogy of Faith Tim. The latter clearly Tit. Then we have done with this your satisfaction being all I aim at in this Discourse Tim. No there is one little Question more comes into my mind though I question whether you can Answer it Tit. It may be not for you know the Proverb Tim. But let 's hear it Tim. Why did not our Bishops when by His Majesties Command at his first Return they inspected the Common-Prayer and Corrected some things in it put some gloss upon these words in the Creed that we might not have been in the Dark as to their sense of them which now we are Tit. It had been very easie for them to have done it and why 't was omitted I can give no reason unless it was either because we should not know their Opinion or because it may be they were divided in their Opinions about it Or else that they would not assume the Honour of doing all that was needful to be done of this Nature but leave some things to their Successors among which this may be one And in the next Edition or next Generation God grant the Liturgy and Bishops to stand till then you may expect it Tim. 'T is well Reply'd I will inquire no further Let us proceed Article IV. Christ did truly rise again from Death and took again his body with Flesh Bones and all things appertaining to the perfection of Mans Nature wherewith he Ascended into Heaven and there sitteth until he return to Judge all men at the Last Day Tit. The principal intents of this Article are the Resurrection Ascension of our Saviour with his Coming to Judgment in either of which I confess I cannot charge you nor I hope any one else Tim. No I am sure they cannot the People to whom I have Preached now Two Sundays together can bear me Witness I am found here for I have handled these main Doctrines amongst them though I never knew they were part of the Articles of the Church before Tit. That 's not material to you whether you
not easie nay 't is almost impossible to miss it Tit. Why what is the sense say you Tim. That Believers or such as have received the Spirit of God and his saving Graces may fall away Tit. What totally and finally and perish Everlastingly Tim. Yes totally and finally and be Damned Tit. I judged I should find you as sound in this Point as that Sheep that shaking her self in a frosty Morning falls in pieces That this Article or our Church in it doth not intend a total and final Apostacy is apparent to me by these Two things 1. Because she saith not That such as have received the Holy Ghost c. may fall away but that they may fall into Sin as David Peter and others who Sinned or fell into great and gross Sins after Grace given yet no final Apostates 2. Because she saith in this Article That the grant of Repentance is not to be denyed to such as it is to be granted They which thus Sin after the Reception of the Holy Ghost and Grace given may Repent And by the Grace of God may rise again and amend their Lives as the forementioned Saints and Servants of God David and St. Peter did which no final total Apostate ever did or can do Therefore it cannot be meant of a final Apostacy or falling away from Grace And therefore if you have taught any such Doctrine you have Preached down this Article and many plain Texts of Scripture to boot as They should deceive if it were possible the very Elect. Whom he loveth he loveth to the end The gifts and calling of God are without Repentance Kept by the power of God through Faith unto Salvation 1 Pet. 2.6 Rom. 8.30 He that believeth in him shall not be confounded Whom he did predestinate them he also called whom he called them he also justified whom he justified them he also glorified And many more gracious and infallible promises assuring us of the stability and perseverance of true Believers of such as have received the Holy Ghost and Graces thereof Tim. Nay now we are in indeed if we are come to Election and Predestination Tit. Yea and good and proper mediums too to prove no final apostacy or falling away from grace for grant the one and the other follows Election and Predestination are inconsistent with a total and final defection But I hope Tim these are not frightfull terms to you you have heard of them before Tim. Yes but don't well understand them Election and Predestination 't is nonsense Tit. Such sense as you have subscribed to and consequently should believe and maintain against all Arminians and other Opposers Tim. I can't imagin any Article of our Church asserts any such thing so contrary to all reason as nothing can be more Tit. Yes this is such an unreasonable Article and by good luck the very next in course and so full mouth'd for Election and Predestination that you 'ld think some body spoke it through Calvin's Mouth or at least that that wretched stiff Predestinarian guided the hand of him that writ it Look there 't is Tim. nay ne'er start at it but out with it like a man of metal Article 17. Tim. Predestination to life is the Everlasting purpose of God whereby before the Foundations of the World were laid he hath constantly decreed by his Counsel secret to us to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of Mankind and to bring them by Christ to Everlasting Salvation as Vessels made to Honour wherefore they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to Gods purpose by his Spirit working in due season they through Grace obey the calling they be justified freely they be made Sons of God by Adoption they be made like the Image of his only begotten Son Jesus Christ they walk Religiously in good works and at length by Gods mercy they attain to Everlasting Felicity As the Godly consideration of Predestination and our Election in Christ is full of sweet pleasant and unspeakable comfort to Godly Persons and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ mortifying the works of the Flesh and their Earthly Members and drawing up their mind to high and Heavenly things as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their Faith of Eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God So for curious and carnal persons lacking the Spirit of Christ to have continually before their eyes the sentence of Gods predestination is a most dangerous downfall whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation or into wretchlesness of most unclean living no less perillous than desperation Furthermore we must receive Gods promises in such wife as they be generally set forth to us in Holy Scripture and in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we have expresly declared unto us in the word of God Tit. Bless me what 's the reason of this sudden paleness in your countenance you look as though you were fainting away Tim. Not so Sir but I am stricken with a strange horror and astonishment to think how our Pulpits ring of Doctrines directly contrary to this Article for though I was so careless as never to read the Articles till now yet I concluded these great Dons had and never questioning their honesty I was confirmed in it by their constant preaching no such Article could possibly be but now I see they are out as much as I I pity them with all my heart Tit. Pity thy self man Tim. I do so but them more because I declare it mine was a sin of Ignorance I am afraid theirs is otherwise and because being leading men they have drawn me and many more into this error by their authority Tit. I am more than half of your opinion For our Church as fore-seeing how prone men would be to dance after Arminius his Pipe hath taken more pains in framing this Article than ordinary on purpose to prevent them and 't is so full so plain and punctual that one would think no mistake can arise but what is willfull Tim. Full and punctual there is all that ever can be thought on against Universal Redemption Free Will Falling away from Grace and the use of those points which are most what their subjects especially on popular occasions Tit. Take the contents of the Article and you will be confirmed in your opinion which are these 1. There is a predestination of Men unto Everlasting Life 2. Predestination hath been from Everlasting 3. Not all men but certain are Predestinated to be saved 4. They which are Predestinate unto Salvation cannot perish 5. In Christ Jesus of the meer will and purpose of God some are Elected and not others to Salvation 6. They who are Elected unto Salvation if they come unto years of discretion are called both outwardly by the word and inwardly by the Spirit of God
7. The Predestinate are both justified by Faith sanctified by the Holy Ghost and shall be glorified in the life to come 8. The consideration of Predestination is to the Godly most comfortable but to curious and carnal persons very dangerous 9. The general promises of God set forth in Holy Scripture are to be embraced of us 10. In our actions the word of God which is his revealed will must be our direction These are the several Doctrines laid down and asserted in this Article Would you have any more Tim. No here is enough and as much as all that ever wrote for Predestination and Election can say and had our Church enlarged this Article to the bulk of the Common Prayer she could not have spoke more to the purpose than she hath in this one Page I wonder the Reverend Fathers of the Church will suffer her Sons to wrong her as they do dayly openly making her speak through their Mouths and often through the louder mouth of the press those Tenets which she never held nay which in the very body of her Articles she so plainly disowns and contradicts Tit. I rejoyce at your Conviction Now these being fundamental points it may not be amiss I think nor time ill spent to see a little for your fuller satisfaction and confirmation what ground and footing each point in this Article hath in holy writ the perfect Rule and Touchstone of all matters of Faith and manners Tim. No sure no loss of time but time well improved and if you will take so much pains I shall thankfully partake of it Tit. For the vindication of our Church reprehension of those men who have subscribed to her and yet oppose her and for thy establishment Tim. I will do it To begin with the first then 1. There is a Predestination of men unto life Everlasting To fit on my Right hand and on my left Math. 20.23 Math. 22.14 Math. 24.23 Joh. 6.37 is not mine to give but shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father For many are called but few chosen But for the Elects sake those dayes shall be shortned All that the Father hath given me shall come unto me To this truth also doe the Evangelists St. Luke and St. Paul give witness the former faith that of the Gentiles at Antioch so many as were Ordained unto Eternal life believed and the other saith whom he foreknew he also did Predestinate Act. 13.48 Rom. 8.29 And Paul blesseth God for this saying Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who c. hath chosen us in him before the fourdation of the world Eph. 1.3 4 5. having Predestinated us unto the adoption of Children by Jesus Christ unto himself Are not these Texts to the purpose Tim. As clear as can be Tit. Besides the Example of the Elected Creatures Men and Angels of the two brethren Abel and Cain Isaac and Ishmael Jacob and Esau of the two servants of King Pharaoh of the two Kingdoms of Juda and Israel the two peoples Jews and Gentiles the two Apostles Peter and Judas the two thieves upon the Cross the two men in the fields the women at the Mill are a great illustration to this truth The next is 2. Predestination hath been from Everlasting or before all times Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand come ye blessed of my father inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world Math. 25 34. which the Apostle understands to be from Everlasting saying God hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world Again God hath saved us and called us with an holy calling not according to our works Eph. 1.4 but according to his own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began And as good footing on the same word hath the following point viz. 3. Not all men but certain are predestinated to be saved Luk. 10.20 Joh. 16.14 2 Tim. 2.10 Rejoyce that your names are written in heaven saith our Saviour and I know mine and am known of mine I suffer all things for the Elects sake And our Church in her order for burial of the dead prayes for the accomplishment of the number of Gods Elect. And again in the same Office come yea blessed receive the Kingdom prepared for you And in the form of Baptism we pray that the infant to be baptized may remain in the number of thine Elect Children c. not all men but a certain number are Elected or Predestinated to life 4. They which are Predestinated unto Salvation cannot perish Joh. 6.37 All that the Father hath given me shall come unto me and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand Joh. 10.28 29. Math. 16.18 Rom. 8 30. Rom. 11.29 who is greater than all And the gates of hell shall not prevail against them Moreover whom he Predestinated them he also glorified The gifts and calling of God are without repentance They went out from us because they were not of us for if they had been of us they would have continued with us So the next point which these men so much stick at is as cleerly taught in Gods word as any of the former namely 5. That of the meer will and purpose of God some men in Christ Jesus are Elected and not others unto salvation a Rom. 9.11 b Eph 1.5 c 2 Tim. 1.9 d Exod. 33.19 e Rom. 9.15 f Eph. 1.4 5. g 1 Pet. 1.18 19 20. h Eph. 1.5 6. Prov. 16.4 Rom. 9.21 a That the purpose of God according to Election might stand b Having Predstinated us according to the good pleasure of his will c Not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace d I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy c. f He hath chosen us in Christ and Predestinated us through Christ g Ye are not redeemed with corruptible things c. but by the precious blood of Christ as of a Lamb c. who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world but was manifest in these last times for you Who hath Predestinated us to the praise of the glory of his grace The Lord hath made all things for himself yea even the wicked for the day of wrath Hath not the Potter power over the clay of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour another unto dishonour was ever any thing more fully and plainly said in holy writ than this part of our Article Tim. I think not or can be Tit. These portions of Scripture to which more might be added were it needfull doe not barely assert a Predestination of some and not of others but assign also all the causes of such Predestination
as 1. The Cause efficient to be the everlasting purpose of God 2. The Cause formal Gods infinite goodness mercy and free grace 3. The Cause material the blood of Christ 4. The Cause final or end why both God the Father hath loved and Christ for his Elect hath suffered is the glory of God and the salvation of men so that I cannot see how any man who is at enmity with this Article can hold any good friendship with these Texts of Scripture or with those that arise to prove the next point which is this 6. They who are Elected unto salvation if they come unto years of discretion are called both outwardly by the word and inwardly by the spirit of God These things are most evident and clear in the Scriptures where is set down both the calling of the Predestinate their obedience to the word being called Rom. 8.30 Gal. 1.15 1 Thess 2.12 2 Tim. 1.9 Eph. 1.13 their adoption by the Spirit to be the chidren of God and their holiness of life and conversation whom he did Predestinate them he also called God separated me from my mothers womb Called me by his grace Walk worthy of God who hath Called you to his Kingdom and glory He hath saved us and called us with an holy calling according to his own purpose and grace c. In whom also ye trusted after ye heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation Ye have received the spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba father Rom. 8.15 16. the same spirit bearing witness with your spirits that we are the children of God Eph. 2.10 And for their being chosen and called to holiness of life and good works the Apostle plainly enough asserts saying we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God hath ordained that we should walk in them And the Grace of God hath appeared Tit. 2.11.12 c. teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and Godly in this present world yea saith the next Proposition 7. The Predestinate are both justified by faith sanctified by the Spirit and shall be glorified in the life to come All these blessed effects of Predestination doth the Scripture fully assert for know saith the Apostle a man is not justified by the works of the Law but by the faith of Jesus Christ Gal. 2.16 Moreover whom he predestinated c. them he also glorified If children then heirs heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ And as we have born the image of the earthly Rom. 8.30 v. 17. 1 Cor. 15.49 so shall we bear the image of the heavenly Now are not all these consequents of Predestination viz. Justification Sanctification and Glorification fully enough expressed in these Texts Tim. Very fully in my opinion Tit. Therefore very well doth our Church say in the next part of this Article That 8. The consideration of Predestination is to the godly most comfortable but to curious and carnal persons very dangerous To the former the Meditation of it must needs be exceeding sweet pleasant and comfortable because it greatly confirms their faith in Christ and encreases their love towards God Rom. 8.18 v. 31 32 33 34. I account the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us If God be for us who can be against us He that spared not his own Son how shall he not with him freely give us all things Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect it is God that justifieth who is he that condemneth ye are sealed with the holy spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance Eph. 1.13 14. until the redemption of the purchased possession unto the praise of his glory And again grieve not the holy Spirit whereby ye are sealed unto the day of Redemption Eph. 4.30 Here is a deep and large Well of Consolation to the godly yet not affording the lest drop to carnal and wicked men Tim. But doth not this Doctrine lead towards Desperation Tit. by no means for no man either from the word of God or this Article of our Church can gather that he is a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction but contrariwise by many and great arguments may perswade himself that God wills not his destruction as by the next proposition plainly appears viz. 9. That the general promises of God set forth in holy Scripture are to be embraced of us Math. 11.38.39 Joh. 3.16.17 1 Tim. 2.4 such are Come unto me all ye that travel and are heavy laden and I will give you rest God gave his onely beloved Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish c. Who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth These and many more such general Promises of grace and favour to mankind are heartily to be embraced of us as encouragements to faith repentance and an holy life So that whoever embraceth these promises and as our Church in the close of this Article saith 10. Will in his actions be directed by the revealed will of God hath no ground to despaire or to exclude himself out of the number of Gods Predestinate or chosen ones Thus you see the drift of this Article comprehending most fully and clearly that great doctrine of Predestination with all its coherent doctrines which is so much cryed down in our day and which is the wonder and shame of all by some sons of our Church who have subscribed it Tim. I must confess I have been one of those led by the example of the greater ones rather than by the depth of my own knowledge But surely these men have something to say for themselves is not our Church single in this point Tit. Admit she were yet there are two weighty reasons why they should not desert or oppose her in this First Because she hath the Scripture on her side And Secondly Because they have listed themselves her faithfull votaries by subscription Tim. That is true these are plaguy strong tyes Tit. But withall I say she is not single in this point for the Churches in Helvetia Basil and France believe and hold the same as their publick confessions bear witness yea all the reformed Church Tim. Who then are the enemies to it Tit. The Arminians Socinians Antinomians and Papists amongst these last the Jesuits are the acutest and most malitious opposers of it Tim. This is more than I understood before Tit. It must needs since you never inquired into it before no not so much as to consult the Article which of it self had been sufficient to have regulated you both in your private opinion and publick Doctrine whereby you have often brought your self under the lash of that severe reprehension of St. Jude Jude 10 13. to those who foam out their own shame speaking evil of those things they know not Tim. I
What have I to do with their Salvation Tit. Not much I confess only 't is an old maxim with Divines that Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus So that if you totally exclude them out of the true Church of Christ you do as much as in you lyes to barr them out of Heaven for which they have reason to give you little thanks Tim. I value not their thanks Tit. However let them have your Prayers that since they are no Christians as yet they may be such in time especially on Good Friday when you pray for all Turks Jews Infidels and Hereticks think on them will you Tim. Then or not at all for I know no other part of our Liturgy will comprehend them Tit. Yes If I mistake not there is one place more wherein they may be remembred without much danger of defiling our Prayers with the thoughts of them Tim. Where is that I cannot call it to mind Tit. That 's much when you read it some 3 times a week 't is that in the Litany That it may please thee to have Mercy upon all men So that if you do but allow them to be men not beasts you may venture to let them have a ship in that sentence Tim. You have named all I am sure now wherein they can have any share Tit. Suppose when you read the Confession We have left undone those things which we ought to have done and we have done those things which we ought not to have done We should understand it of the Phanaticks as well as of our selves would there be any harm in it Tim. None in the world for doubtless 't is true of them to a Tittle And if there were any more such instances I should begin to think our Prayers were composed chiefly for them But surely there is no more Tit. Many more Tim. Where Tit. In the Litany as that From all Pride vain Glory and Hypocrisie from envy batred malice and all uncharitableness Tim. Nothing ever more pertinent Tit. Except that From all Sedition privy Conspiracy and Rebellion from all false Doctrine Heresie and Schisme Tim. Better and better Tit. And that it may please thee to bring into the way of Truth all such as have erred and are decieved That it may please thee to forgive our enemies persecutors and slanderers and to turn their hearts Tim. Incomparable I profess I shall never read these Prayers hence forward but I shall think of the men they are so apt so exceeding apt that it will add to my devotion ever after Where were my Brains that I never noticed this before As I hope to live I believe scarce a Bishop that knew for whose sake those Prayers were inserted till now Tit. Now then I hope you will let these poor Gibeonites share both in your Confessions and Petitions as oft as you may without turning your Zeal to God into passion against them in Prayer and I have so much Charity as to think they will do much for you and with that sincerity and love as becomes fellow members of the visible Church of Christ for such I take them to be nor doth our Church in this Article exclude them which made it stick long so long by the way but by this time I hope 't is pretty well down if not I am sure the next will drive it down Tim. I 'le try Article 20. Of the Authority of the Church The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies and Authority in Controversies of Faith And yet it is not lawfull for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to Gods Word written neither may it so expound one place of Scripture that it be repugnant to another Wherefore although the Church be a witness and a keeper of holy writ yet as it ought not to decree any thing against the same so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of salvation Tit. I need not ask whether you ever read this before because I know you did not but how do you like it now you have read it Tim. Not at all in troth unless by Church they mean that at Westminster nor can it be true as to us in any other sense for 't is that Great Assembly or General Counoel that decrees and appoints all our Rites and Ceremonies and we have no other than what they approve and establish witness the Act before the Common Prayer Tit. But you believe the Church hath a power to decree Rites which is all the Article asserts in that point Tim. Decree Ay she may decree and decree till her heart akes but if she have not the Votes of the House she shall never have the thanks of the House for her pains and without their Votes and Thanks I know what her decrees will come to Tit. To what Tim. To scorn and disdain with them that make those decrees ' slid man if all the Reverend Bishops of the Land should sit together in Council and decree a Ceremony no bigger than the dash over an Adverb which is scarce half a cross it would signifie no more than if you and I should do it Tit. How you and I we have no power at all Tim. En'e as much as their Lordships in this case was not the P but the other day decreeing out of the Church those Rites and Ceremonies or a good part of them that we have and had it had the Royal stamp the Bishops might have thrown their Caps after them Tit. And is it not fit that they which make other Laws should by Law establish the Government in the Church Tim. Therefore I would have this Article amended and named thus the P. that is King Lords and Commons Assembled c. have power c. Leaving out the Word Church else I will never subscribe it Tit. That 's done already Tim. I care not but I won't own it Tit. But can you withdraw your hand singly from this and yet subscribe and own the rest Tim. Yes very well Tit. That 's a cunning trick indeed 't is next to a mental reservation By virtue of which a man may subscribe any thing all things and yet in truth subscribe nothing So that I have all this while been under a mistake for I thought you had subscribed all the Articles and it seems you have not but a little here and there only as it should please you when you come to read them Tim. And as much too I think as reason can expect Tit. Mighty pretty truly read the next and having had your subscription before hand let us now have your intention when you have perused it Article 21. Of the Authority of General Councels Tim. General Councels may not be gathered together without the Commandment and Will of Princes And when they be gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed by the Spirit and Word of God they may err and sometimes have erred even in things pertaining
unto God Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor Authority unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture Tit. Now what did you think of this at the time of subscription Tim. How could I think any thing of what I never saw read nor heard but now I think 't is sound and good and I own and assent to it though it is like in our time there may be no occasion to make use of it Tit. Then we 'll dismiss it to our Successors and come to the next Article 22. Of Purgatory Tim. The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory Pardons Worshipping and Adoration as well of Images as of Reliques and also Invocation of Saints is a fond thing vainly invented and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture but rather repugnant to the Word of God Tit. Here I hope your heart shall follow your hand Tim. Ay Sir and more hearts if I had them for all this I stedfastly believe though I am afraid this Faith is going out of fashion Tit. I hope not as long as the Defendor of it lives there is no fear and if Prayers will add to his days he is like to live as long as any that ever sat on his Throne and therefore I hope our Fears will dye before he dyes Tim. Pray God they may and be buried too never to rise more in our Generation or in the Generations after us Tit. Amen Amen And I am joyful to find you so hearty a Protestant I wish they be all such that wear our Livery But what 's the next Article Article 23. Of ministring in the Congregation Tim. It is not lawful for any man to take upon him the Office of Publick preaching or ministring the Sacraments in the Congregation before he be lawfully called and sent to execute the same And those we ought to judge lawfully called and sent which be chosen and called to this work by men who have publick authority given unto them in the Congregation to call and send Ministers into the Lords Vineyard Tit. I suppose we need not stay long here neither Tim. No for I know none but Quakers Lay-elders and such holders forth as the Apostle describes That creep into Houses and lead captive silly women c. but can digest this Article well enough I am sure there is never an Orthodox Divine nay scarce a right Presbyterian but will subscribe to it Tit. Presbyterian yes for Ordination by laying on of hands is a Doctrine they stiffly maintain both in their Sermons and Writings yea and many of them have admitted of Episcopal Ordination rather than run before they were sent Tim. I know they have but for all the rest of the Dissenters they had as lieve Old Ketch should goll them as a Bishop Tit. Why then are the Presbyterians decryed as the great bane and pest in Church and State when at least in respect to others they are men of some orders Tim. O Sir because they are the leading faction Tit. Leading do you call them I am sure they lead the smallest number of any Dissenters this day in the Nation yet unhappy men that they are all that do any ways oppose or undermine the Government either in Church or State are cryed down under that new frightfull and abominable title Presbyterians for my part though I know they are not in infallible yet I cannot but pity them Tim. But I can't what pity a crew of Knaves and Villains Tit. Take heed Tim. for they come nearest the Church of England of any other Dissenters and upon a small abatement could joyn with her which the rest of the Dissenters would not and are they the worse Knaves and Villains for this Tim. Yes much the worse but pray say no more of them for I abhor the very name and cannot hear it repeated with Patience Tit. I would not provoke you too much but I would gladly hear your reasons Tim. That I can't do without thinking of them at least and the very thoughts of them put me into such an heat as utterly confounds my reason Tit. We use to say break my head and shew me a reason but it seems they must be content to be called Knaves Villains and what not without reason Tim. Yes for this once they must and shall and that for this reason because I can't stay now to give my reasons Tit. Are they so very long then Tim. Yes much longer I see than the next Article which I am just going to read Tit. Well Tim. I perceive 't is an hard matter to force reason from you proceed as you will Article 24. Of speaking in the Congregation in such a Tongue as the people understandeth Tim. It is a thing plainly repugnant to the VVord of God and the custom of the Primitive Church to have publick Prayer in the Church or to minister the Sacraments in a Tongue not understood of the People Tit. There is nothing you can dislike in this Tim. No 't is very Orthodox and according to the Apostles direction 1 Cor. 14.6 to 19. Tit. So I percieve you have some Scripture at command Tim. Yes but this Text I cannot but remember For at one of the conferences appointed by the right Reverend Father in God the B. of L. where the subject was against Praying c. in an unknown tongue the Dr. that Preached in our division cited this place so often that I shall never forget it Tit. You give a good account how you came to have it so ready at hand proceed to the next Article 25. Of the Sacraments Tim. Sacraments ordained of Christ be not only badges or tokens of Christian mens profession but rather they be certain sure witnesses and effectual signs of grace and Gods good will towards us by the which he doth work invisibly in us and doth not onely quicken but also strengthen and confirm our faith in him There are two Sacraments ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospel that is to say Baptism and the Supper of the Lord. Those five commonly called Sacraments that is to say Confirmation Penance Orders Matrimony and Extreme Vnction are not to be accounted for Sacraments of the Gospel being such as have grown partly of the corrupt following of the Apostles partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures but yet have not like nature of Sacraments with Baptism and the Lords Supper for that they have not any visible Sign or Ceremony ordained of God The Sacraments were not ordained of Christ to be gazed upon or to be carried about but that we should duly use them And in such onely as worthily receive the same they have a wholsom effect or operation but they that receive them unworthily purchase to themselves damnation as St. Paul saith Tit. You may read on for I know not but you'r sound in this and I shall not charge you but where I know you are guilty Artic. 26. Of the unworthiness of the Ministers which hinder
Minister from one Easter to another Tim. I think he would not have much time for his Study or Ministerial Offices Tit. And I think he would have but little thanks for his pains either from his Parishioners or Diocesan for such Proceedings would gender Confusion And I think Visiting the Sick Catechising the Youth and Informing the Ignorant would be a better improving of Time and a greater Service to our Church than drawing up and making such Presentments And when we must be doing let us present the Debauched and Prophane the Scandalous and notorious Offenders against the Moral Law of God rather than the ignorant Offenders against that Law of Man Tim. Well now you talk of improving Time pray let us improve ours and proceed we have been long enough here already Tit. I would not weary nor over-long detain you for I know you sit upon Thorns therefore go on ART 31. Tim. The Offering of Christ once made is that perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World both Original and Actual and there is none other Satisfaction for Sin but that alone Wherefore the Sacrifices of Masses in the which it was commonly said that the Priest did offer Christ for the quick and the dead to have Remission of Pain or Guilt were blasphemous Fables and dangerous Deceits Tit. This Article destroys the very bulk and life of all the Romish Religion namely the Sacrifice of the Mass 'T is this that promotes the Adoring of the Creature Purgatory and Prayer for the Dead and all those Papal Stratagems whereby his Holinesses Coffers are cramm'd and the Pomp and Grandeur of his whole Body Ecclesiastick is supported and maintained Take away this and their Religion dwindles into nothing Vid. Saul and Samuel p. 22. the Priests and Jesuits might cobble Shoes in reality to get Bread as they sometimes have done here and elsewhere to cover their intended Villanies yea the Pope himself would become as poor as his pretended Predecessor St. Peter Well this gainful and admired Device doth our Church rightly explode as a blasphemous Fable and dangerous Deceit Tim. And doubtless such it is and no better Tit. Then whatever Priest shall subscribe to this Article and afterwards lift up his hands to this Romish Babel without great Repentance is a damned Hypocrite Tim. And cursed beyond the Power of the Popes Absolution or Benediction Tit. I am glad to find you so firm in this and hope you will prove so as to the next which thwarts another Doctrine of the Romanists Tim. What is that Tit. Read it and you will be satisfied ART 32. Tim. Bishops Priests and Deacons are not commanded by Gods Law either to vow the Estate of Single life or to abstain from Marriage Therefore it is lawful for them as for all other Christian Men to marry at their own discretion as they shall judge the same to serve better to Godliness Tit. Now you perceive whereto the Article tends Tim. Yes to reprehend the Doctrine of the Papists which forbids Priests to marry Tit. And I am sure our Church is in the right here having the Scripture on her side Tim. She hath so but she doth not say that Priests by the Word of God are bound to marry or bound not to marry but they may or may not as in prudence or discretion they shall think fit Tit. And as the same shall serve better to Godliness pray put that in too Tim. Admit I do yet I think 't is as great prudence in Priests and as conducive to Godliness not to say more to live unmarried as married Tit. In good time Then here you prefer the Prudence of the Church of Rome to this of our Church You would have done well to have read this Article before you had subscribed it Tim. You will give me leave to speak my thoughts Tit. Most freely good Tim. I know you are a single Person yet but have you vow â—…petual Chastity as the Papists call it Tim. 〈…〉 truth I have resolved it Tit. And if you do but believe as the Church of Rome believes in this Point too no doubt but your Resolution or Vow will marvellously promote Godliness Tim. How is that Tit. That nothing can break or violate that Vow but Marriage Tim. I don't understand your meaning Tit. The meaning is a Priest having vowed Chastity may if he will and as oft as he will frequent the publick Stews or keep Concubines or Whores yet be a very chast and honest Man If a Priest keep an Whore at Board and at Bed and use her constantly as if she were his Wife he is not therefore Irregular but if he marry her or an honester Woman all the World cannot excuse him for though such Whoredom never disables a Priest yet chaste Marriage utterly spoils him Now doth not this tend mightily to Godliness Yea they make Whoredom so small a matter in a Religious Man that they tell us For a Monk or a Friar to lay aside his Habit is a Crime by which he incurs Excommunication but if he lay aside his Habit that he may commit Fornication the more expeditely without the Incumbrances which his Monkish Weeds would give him in the Act they declare him upon that account freed from Censure And so common is this Vice among them that Cassander a moderate Papist saith There is scarce an hundred amongst all their Priests that abstain from Women Popish Coelebacy therefore is a great promoter of Piety is it not Tim. 'T is but some few that are so wicked Tit. 'T is a Leprosie that runs from Head to Foot in the Ecclesiastical Romish Body The very Popes themselves as Holy and Infallible as they are have generally had a Finger in the Pye as it were easie to shew if time would permit but for brevity sake read but a few ancient Sentences written of some of them and then give me your thoughts As that of Pope Paul the Second Anxia testiculos Pauli ne Roma requirasa Filia huic nata est haec docet esse marem Of Pope Innocent the Eighth Bis quatuor nocens genuit puellulos Totidem sed nocens genuit puellulas O Roma possis hunc meritò dicere Patrem Of Pope Alexander the Sixth Non spado Alexander fuer at Lucretia nempe Illius Conjux nata nurusque fuit And of the Priests in general one wittily writes Multi vos sanctos multi vos dicere Patres Gaudent vobis nomina tanta placent Ast ego vos sanctos non possum dicere Patres Possum cum natos vos genuisse sciam What think you now of the Prudence of the Church of Rome in forbidding Marriage and allowing and practising Whoredom Is it preferable to the Wisdom and Piety of our Church which alloweth and encourageth Marriage in her Priests to prevent Fornication and Uncleanness And is the former a better means to Godliness and Chastity than the latter Surely you will change your Opinion though not